Military Review

Meet the "Package": the newest weapons for hunting submarines and torpedoes

57
New types of Russian weapons of various kinds, including systems for naval ships fleetregularly attract the attention of the foreign press. Some samples that have certain advantages are praised by foreign authors. For example, the other day, the American publication The National Interest noted the high characteristics and uniqueness of the Russian Ship-NK anti-submarine complex.


An article about the Russian ship arms, 24 was released in November under the heading The Buzz. Author Mark Episkopos gave his publication a noticeable title: “Meet the Paket: The Russian Navy’s Latest Weapon (To Hunt Submarines and Torpedoes)” - “Meet the“ Package ”: the latest weaponry of the Russian fleet (to hunt submarines and torpedoes).” Directly under the heading, the author gave a brief information about the composition of the complex: the “Package-NK” includes a central control system, a hydroacoustic station for searching targets, as well as a launcher with MTT and M-15 torpedoes.



The author points to recent events. Against the background of the aggravation of military tension between NATO and Russia, the Ministry of Defense of the latter is developing its navy. Referring to the message of the Russian military department from October 30, M. Episcopos writes that one of the Russian 20380 corvettes (Steregushchiy-class) in the framework of future exercises in the Baltic Sea was to use the newest anti-submarine / anti-torpedo complex “Package-NK”.

We are talking about the ship "Boky". This is the third corvette of the 20380 / Steregushchiy-class project, introduced into the Russian fleet. Before him, the composition of the Navy joined the ships "guarding" and "savvy". In total, before the 2021 of the year, the Russian command intends to build and take on the service of 13 ships of this type.

The author notes that there is nothing surprising in replacing the outdated Grisha-class corvettes (small anti-submarine ships of the 1124 "Albatross" project) built since the seventies of the last century. However, in this shipbuilding program there is a component that can cause concern to foreign experts. This is the speed of equipping the new corvettes with the formidable anti-submarine and anti-torpedo complex “Package-E” or “Package-NK”.

The package complex is a weapon system for surface ships consisting of several components. It includes a central control system, sonar sonar station for detecting underwater targets, as well as a launcher. The latter is able to use torpedoes of various types. The MTT product is designed to attack enemy submarines, and the M-15 torpedo is different in its design and is necessary for the attack of approaching torpedoes. Torpedoes MTT and M-15 have the same dimensions, which allows you to combine them in the ammunition in the required proportions. The range of anti-submarine torpedo reaches 10000 m, anti-torpedo - from 100 to 800 m.

The author recalls the statements about the “Package-NK” system, previously published by official sources. The Russian organization Rosoboronexport claims that after the installation of the Package-NK complex, the effectiveness of the anti-torpedo protection of a surface ship increases 3-3,5 times. The cost of a full set of funds remains unknown, but Rosoboronexport is ready to sell new complexes to foreign customers. Obvious readiness for export can be an additional advantage when negotiating with customers.

First of all, in the “Package-NK” project, major changes are foreseen in comparison with the old rocket bomb missiles of the RBU family. In addition, there is a more important advantage in the form of a modular architecture. Thus, the individual components of the complex can be upgraded independently without the need for a comprehensive processing of all funds. M. Episcopos notes that an interesting pun is observed here: a complex with such capabilities was called the word “Package”, which can also mean a set or a bundle.

Having considered the general features of the package-NK complex, the author proposes to compare it with foreign systems of a similar purpose. He notes that the complex is universal; He is able to solve the tasks of protecting the ship and attacking targets. Systems with such capabilities in foreign countries are absent. At the same time there are similar concepts and complexes built on their basis.

First of all, the Surface Ship Torpedo Defense complex, which is in service with the US Navy, is mentioned. The SSTD complex can be considered the closest analogue of the “Package-NK”. It includes acoustic means of observation and detection, as well as instruments for transmitting data to the Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo anti-submarine missile system. However, SSTD does not include the launcher itself and the missiles.

For the naval forces of India, the Mareech Advanced Torpedo Defense System (Mareech ATDS) anti-torpedo defense complex was developed. This complex has its own means of detecting torpedoes, as well as "indirect" systems to counter attack. The destruction of the approaching torpedoes with special weapons is not provided. German industry has developed the SeaSpider Anti-Torpedo Torpedo anti-torpedo complex. Its main element was a special interceptor torpedo with improved homing tools, compatible with a wide range of torpedo tubes. However, in 2016, the SeaSpider project faced serious technical problems. Now the engineers are reworking the project with the problems identified.

At the moment, as the author recalls, all five 20380 project corvettes in the Russian Navy are equipped with the Package-NK complex. Perhaps, the Russian industry will sell these complexes to foreign countries, but to whom and when they will be given weapons is unknown. In addition, Russian specialists can focus on the development of their fleet. In this case, the Package-NK complexes will first equip all the remaining Steregushchiy-class corvettes, and only then will export contracts be signed. It is assumed that the anti-submarine / anti-torpedo complex can be used on ships of various types, including frigates and aircraft carriers. However, the future plans of the Russian command, providing for the installation of "Packages" not only on corvettes of 20380 Ave., have not yet been announced.

The author calls for now not to make far-reaching conclusions and not to consider the “Package-NK” complex as the only prospective weapon of its class, which will be associated with the further development of the fleet. So, last year, Rostec Corporation announced its plans to modernize one of the existing anti-submarine systems. The RPK-8 "Zapad" complex with the anti-submarine missile 90Р1 will undergo an update. Despite this, it is obvious that the Russian Navy is considering the Package as a good platform suitable for future use.

Anti-submarine / anti-torpedo complex "Package-NK" is an effective and universal weapon system. M. Episcopos notes that the multifunctional launcher of this complex blurs the line between defensive and strike weapons. And all this is happening against the background of the exercises of the Russian fleet and accompanies the general buildup of the military presence of NATO and Russia in the Baltic Sea.

***

The project of the universal ship complex “Package-NK” was created at the beginning of the two thousandth by order of the Russian Navy. The lead developer of the project was GNPP Region. During the development of individual components, other organizations were involved in the project. In particular, the M-15 torpedo was created with the participation of the Research Institute of Marine Technology from the “Gidropribor” concern. Design work was completed in the middle of the last decade.

The individual components of the promising complex were openly demonstrated at trade shows from 2007. So, the first showed a torpedo M-15, designed to prevent torpedo attacks. Two years later, the first demonstration of an MTT product, an anti-submarine torpedo, took place. At the same time, the tests of the complex started before the first shows of its components. The first carrier of the "Package-NK", performing the functions of a trial ship, was the corvette "Guarding" - the lead ship of the 20380 project. The tests ended in 2008, and soon the Package-NK complex was put into service.

The complex includes several fixed assets. On the carrier ship, the Packet-E control system, the Packet-AE hydro-acoustic target designation station and the torpedo device, type CM-588, are mounted. Antenna device products "Package-AE" is located in the underwater part of the ship, the launcher - above the water level. Two types of torpedoes are used to hit different types of targets - anti-submarine MTT and anti-torpedo M-15. Torpedoes have a caliber 324 mm and use a common launcher.

The complex "Package-NK" works in automatic mode. The hydroacoustic station monitors underwater conditions and searches for targets. When an underwater object is detected, the control system processes the incoming data and, by characteristic features, determines the class of the target - a submarine or a torpedo. Further, these data are used to prepare the shooting of the relevant ammunition.

The defeat of submarines is made with the help of MTT “Compact heat torpedo”. This product is 324 mm caliber and 3,2 m long has a two-way acoustic homing system. It achieves speeds up to 50 nodes and plunges to a depth of 600 meters. The maximum cruising range is 20 km. With a mass of 390 kg, the torpedo carries a charge of weight 60 kg. A torpedo is fired from a 324-mm torpedo tube using a powder pressure accumulator.

The M-15 torpedo, designed to hit approaching torpedoes, looks similar to an MTT product, but differs in its design and characteristics. Instead of a heat engine, it uses a reactive solid-fuel jet. The torpedo has an inertial control system and a hydroacoustic guidance head. Destruction of targets at depths up to 800 m is provided. The maximum firing range of such a torpedo is 1400 m.

The main carriers of the anti-submarine / anti-torpedo complex “Package-NK” in the Russian Navy are small guard ships (corvettes) of the 20380 project. Now in the fleet there are five such ships; expected completion and delivery of another five. The complex is retained on two modernized corvettes of the 20385 Ave. The construction of the lead ship of the 20386 pr. Is also under construction, which will also receive the “Package-NK”. The fleet will order at least a dozen of such ships. The Package-NK complex is also used on the 22350 frigates. The lead ship of this type began service, three more are at manufacturing plants. Later, four new frigates are expected.

All the ships listed receive a complex with two launchers. In lazportah in the surface of the ship carrier is installed unified quad torpedo tubes. At the same time, the “Package-NK” project provides for the possibility of reducing or increasing the ready-to-use ammunition set by appropriate restructuring of the launcher.

The Package-NK complex is the newest domestic development in its class and ensures the protection of surface ships against two main threats. The complex works automatically and is able to respond to emerging threats in a timely manner. In terms of its composition and capabilities, as The National Interest rightly points out, the Package-NK complex has no direct competitors.

Article "Meet the Paket: The Russian Navy's Latest Weapon (To Hunt Submarines and Torpedoes)":
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-paket-russian-navys-latest-weapon-hunt-submarines-and-torpedoes-37007
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57 comments
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  1. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 28 November 2018 06: 25
    -1
    I have two questions.
    First, they are again trying to make a "Miracle Weapon", the MTT torpedo has a speed of up to 50 knots and a range of up to 10 km at the beginning of the article and just below 20 km, super, so what is its range?
    Second, and that a torpedo cannot hit a torpedo, that for this you need to make a rocket with a range of 1400 meters, and what is its speed, 70-100 nodes or even more, but hardly more than 100 nodes?
    And most importantly, what can not be on the MTT torpedo to enter the afterburner mode, so that it develops 65-70 nodes, even at the price of a range, and intercepts torpedoes;
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 November 2018 08: 54
      +6
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      First, they are again trying to make a "Miracle Weapon", the MTT torpedo has a speed of up to 50 knots and a range of up to 10 km at the beginning of the article and just below 20 km, super, so what is its range?

      20 km at 30 nodes.
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      Second, and that a torpedo cannot hit a torpedo, that for this you need to make a rocket with a range of 1400 meters, and what is its speed, 70-100 nodes or even more, but hardly more than 100 nodes?

      Alas, those same 50 nodes ...
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 28 November 2018 11: 12
        +1
        Greetings Andrew! Then, in fact, the complex is effective against a single torpedo, but it will not be able to reflect two or more torpedo salvos
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 November 2018 12: 18
          +5
          Quote: Nehist
          Then, in fact, the complex is effective against a single torpedo, but it will not be able to repel two or more torpedo volleys

          Why? It’s quite effective against torpedoes - it’s not for him to chase 45-node 533-mm torpedoes across the ocean, but to beat them at converging courses.
          But against the submarines ... against the submarines, such a torpedo is only suitable for the main part of the PLUR.
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 28 November 2018 12: 56
            -3
            The heading angle of an enemy torpedo can be any. As well as the detection distance of it. A surface carrier carrier of an anti-submarine complex can be attacked by two, for example, submarines. A ship’s combat races can direct two remote-controlled torpedoes simultaneously, at least. As a rule, during NATO exercises, and their vassals they carry out complex attacks, submarine lords attack at the same time as aviation. Knowing their superiority in the air. Especially at the PLO lines. During the training courses for surface ships and submarines, adjustments for the use of the NK Pack complex were not made in such conditions, and are not practiced by crews carrier ships.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 November 2018 13: 17
              +3
              Comment for the sake of comment.
              Quote: gunnerminer
              The course angle of the enemy torpedo can be any

              And the North Star points to the north. And then what?
              Quote: gunnerminer
              In the training courses for surface ships and submarines, adjustments for the use of the NK Package complex were not made in such conditions

              Do you know so accurately the latest changes in combat training techniques? In my opinion, you are lying as usual, sorry for the direct
              1. gunnerminer
                gunnerminer 28 November 2018 15: 23
                0
                -And the North Star points to the north. And then what? -

                The enemy is not as simple as shown in the talk show. Volleys will be accompanied by the use of electronic warfare devices, torpedoes in the mode of self-government and television guidance.

                - You are lying as usual, excuse me for the direct-

                This is Petrushkin’s secret. If there are scans of documents, then the disclosure of Iayna. If there are none, then this is a lie. Only the Navy Group can discuss the topic of the Package.
          2. venik
            venik 28 November 2018 13: 16
            +3
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            But against the submarines ... against the submarines, such a torpedo is only suitable for the main part of the PLUR.

            ==========
            Andrew! And with "what a fright" you took it ??? As far as I remember - in the 70s of the 80s - the main anti-submarine torpedo in service with NATO surface ships was just the Mk-44 / Mk-46 and other 324 mm torpedoes, which were considered very compact and very effective weapons !!! Now they have been replaced by the Mk-50 and Mk-54 (of the same caliber) - and also - DEMANDED !!!
            It's just that today - instrument making in Russia - has gone far ahead now there is no need to equip ships and submarines with torpedoes of "huge caliber" (no, they - of course, are also NEEDED !!! And they will be in service yet very very LONG - in a sense they are today (and tomorrow) - it is difficult to replace something! BUT! Efficient small torpedoes - today - this is EXACTLY what is needed for small surface ships and diesel submarines !!! hi
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 28 November 2018 15: 28
              -6
              It’s not only about the speed of the torpedo. The effectiveness of the torpedo of the complex can be affected by pre-applied enemy electronic warfare devices (simulators). And the detection range of enemy torpedoes. It will take at least 15 minutes. About 10 minutes to process the data, a minute to enter data into the course device torpedoes, a minute to the volley. This is in the case of high professional training of naval combat crew and the crew as a whole. Which is unlikely. Not a single combat exercise crews on this subject have not yet performed.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 November 2018 16: 06
              +2
              Quote: venik
              Andrew! And with "what a fright" you took it ???

              I do not take my opinions "out of fear."
              Quote: venik
              As far as I remember - in the 70-80-ies - the main anti-submarine torpedo, armed with NATO surface ships was just Mk-44 / Mk-46 and other 324 mm torpedoes, which were considered by the way a very compact and very effective weapon !!!

              Compact - yes. Effective - no.
              But in general, let's start with what you remember is still not entirely true, because the "main anti-submarine torpedo" and the "main anti-submarine weapon" are still different things. And the main "personal" anti-submarine weapons were ASROC systems, first with a range of 10, then - 28 km. But in the form of warheads they just had the Mk-44 / Mk-46 and even Mk-54 you mentioned.
              But in the TA on the ship - this is more of an anti-torpedo weapon and a weapon of last chance
              Quote: venik
              Effective small-sized torpedoes - today - it is EXACTLY what is needed for small surface ships and diesel submarines !!!

              Pathos and mistakenly, alas hi
          3. venik
            venik 28 November 2018 13: 46
            +1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            But against the submarines ... against the submarines, such a torpedo is only suitable for the main part of the PLUR.

            =========
            Why suddenly ?? But against the submarines, NATO surface ships (since the 70s) used just the small-sized 324-mm torpedoes Mk-44/46, then - the Mk-50/54 (and are still used !!!) effective !!!) in NATO !!
            Why were "large" caliber torpedoes used in the USSR? Yes, because in "instrument making" they lagged behind a little !!!
            Today the Russian Federation has the ability to create EXACTLY "small" and EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE torpedoes (the most "TO" for surface ships of small displacement and diesel submarines !!! ")
            Best regards - "venik"!
            --------
            PS I don’t know, "why would it suddenly" - but the previous comment (analogue of this one) someone "banned" !!! Why's that?????
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 November 2018 16: 07
              +3
              Quote: venik
              Why were "large" caliber torpedoes used in the USSR? Yes, because in "instrument making" they lagged behind a little !!!

              And not close. If it were so, American submarines would be equipped with 324-mm torpedoes, but in reality - look what’s standing there
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 24
          0
          Quote: Nehist
          Greetings Andrew! Then, in fact, the complex is effective against a single torpedo, but it will not be able to reflect two or more torpedo salvos

          no maybe
          These are technical requirements, and their fulfillment was pledged immediately
          Trouble there in another
    2. venik
      venik 28 November 2018 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      And most importantly, what can not be on the MTT torpedo to enter the afterburner mode, so that it develops 65-70 nodes, even at the price of a range, and intercepts torpedoes;

      ==========
      At first, "effective interception range" is a CRITICAL parameter !!! The higher it is, the more time remains for the development of target designation, and with a sufficiently long interception range, it may be possible to re-launch (if the first torpedo missed) ....
      Secondly - at a speed of more than 50 knots, "troubles" begin (like a sharp increase in wave resistance (and hence a sharp increase in fuel consumption) and cavitation, which can disrupt the operation of the torpedo homing system.
      Thirdly, the rocket torpedo, in contrast to the "traditional" schemes, has much better "acceleration" characteristics (and therefore better "maneuverability"), which is critically important in the case when the target is moving not "in a straight line", but along some ( possibly complex trajectory). So it increases effective interception range and the probability of hitting a target !!! Somewhere like that !!!
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 November 2018 12: 15
        -1
        and how does her gos work at such speeds?
        and her volume doesn’t muffle her own ship?
        and what kind of torpedoes was she going to intercept at a depth of 800 meters?
        1. venik
          venik 28 November 2018 12: 58
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          and how does her gos work at such speeds?

          =========
          Here - up to 50 knots - JUST WORKS !!!
          ----
          Quote: Avior
          and her volume doesn’t muffle her own ship?

          ========
          And this is here - WHAT ??? If the torpedo seeker has "captured" the target, then the carrier ship is already inactive (it is guided by itself!) ... And the noise "behind" - the seeker does not seem to be affected !!! wink
          ----
          Quote: Avior
          and what kind of torpedoes was she going to intercept at a depth of 800 meters?

          =============
          Well, actually this is the MAX travel depth !!! In addition, do not forget: the M-15 counter-torpedo is a weapon not only for the "Packet-NK" (surface ship), but also for the "Packet-PL" (submarine) ... And such battles can be used on large depths to go !!! hi
          1. Avior
            Avior 28 November 2018 13: 10
            -1
            it's about m-15, not mtt.
            If the seeker torpedo "captured" the target

            for m-15 the target is a torpedo, and the boat itself can go away or shoot one more time
            1. venik
              venik 28 November 2018 13: 52
              0
              Quote: Avior
              for m-15 the target is a torpedo, and the boat itself can go away or shoot one more time

              ========
              But for this, "Packet-NK / PL" also includes "anti-torpedo" - "anti-submarine" torpedoes !!!
              It turns out pretty universal weapon: "They shoot - AT YOU" - fought back ... And counterattacked !!! "
              1. Avior
                Avior 28 November 2018 14: 31
                -1
                I asked about what, about the features of this anti-submarine MK-15.
                Shl you have an advertising distribution of exclamation marks? lol
                1. venik
                  venik 28 November 2018 18: 00
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior
                  Shl you have an advertising distribution of exclamation marks?

                  =======
                  Gee !!! I distribute to ALL - in "packages"! wassat
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 29
          0
          Quote: Avior
          and how does her gos work at such speeds?

          WELL WORKS
          I would even say VERY OK ;)
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 28
        0
        Quote: venik
        First, the "effective interception range" is a CRITICAL parameter !!! The higher it is, the more time remains for the development of target designation, and with a sufficiently long interception range, it may be possible to re-launch (if the first torpedo missed) ....

        for this the transition to torpedo carrier was needed
        and there is a multiple advantage
        Quote: venik
        Thirdly, the rocket torpedo, in contrast to the "traditional" schemes, has much better "acceleration" characteristics (and therefore better "maneuverability"), which is critically important in the case when the target is moving not "in a straight line", but along some ( possibly complex trajectory). This means that the effective interception range and the probability of hitting the target increase !!! Somewhere like that !!!

        No, the advantages here are in MTT and significant
        Solid rocket motor (and no "hydroreactive") on AT - the legacy of "Last" since the late 80s-early 90s
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 23
      0
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      And most importantly, what can not be on the MTT torpedo to enter the afterburner mode, so that it develops 65-70 nodes, even at the price of a range, and intercepts torpedoes;

      both possible and necessary
      but for this were needed Shahidzhanov and Panferov
      and they "left"
      One can deservedly be proud of what Shahidjanov and Panferov did in 90's, but it’s a very unpleasant fact that their successors, in an amicable way, should be ashamed today for the results of their work.

      https://topwar.ru/156666-antitorpedy-my-poka-vperedi-no-nas-uzhe-obgonjajut.html
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Wiruz
    Wiruz 28 November 2018 08: 25
    0
    It seems to be something like this on the site recently, no?
    1. venik
      venik 28 November 2018 12: 30
      +1
      Quote: Wiruz
      It seems to be something like this on the site recently, no?

      ===========
      Absolutely right!!! On November 29, on VO, an article appeared "The US has evaluated the Russian anti-submarine" Package "(https://topwar.ru/150316-v-ssha-ocenili-rossijskij-protivolodochnyj-paket.html#comment-id-8809696).
      Absolutely UNDERSTANDING "extract" from the mentioned article in the "National Interest", which, in my deep conviction, was a summary of the mentioned article, translated with the help of an "on-line translator" (and not the best!). Worst of all, the "presentation" was done by an "nameless editor", ABSOLUTELY "not a stranger" not understanding "the topic" ..... fool
      As a result, there appeared "pearls" like "a torpedo with HEAT guidance", etc. etc.!!! am What caused a flurry of criticism and misunderstanding!
      To be honest, he himself was going to "introduce clarifications", but Kirill Ryabov was ahead! And - most importantly - he provided the article with OWN comments (For which og-g-g-r-rm He "+" (I could have put 10 +!)) ....
      The only "lapse" that Kirill allowed in translation: This is a phrase:
      "....Stroke range anti-submarine torpedo reaches 10000 m, anti-torpedo - from 100 to 800 m .. "(end of the 4th paragraph after the photo).
      In original:
      ".... boast effective ranges of up to 10,000 and 100-800 meters respectively. ..." Which should be translated as: ... advertised (declared) effective the operating range reaches 10 m and from 000 to 100 m, respectively .. "
      This actually caused some confusion ... Which, in no way detracts from the merits of the Author (Kirill Ryabov)!
  4. smaug78
    smaug78 28 November 2018 11: 42
    0
    As far as I remember, on "Courage" the "Package" was not kicked only by the lazy one in the corresponding branch. Where is the truth?
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 November 2018 12: 18
      +2
      Kick is not the package itself, and his PU.
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 28 November 2018 12: 57
        0
        For the application of this complex in a complex operating environment, especially the composition of the compound, nothing has yet been invented.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 30
          -1
          Quote: gunnerminer
          For the application of this complex in a complex operating environment, especially the composition of the compound, nothing has yet been invented.

          don't bullshit hurt her lol
      2. smaug78
        smaug78 28 November 2018 15: 09
        0
        Thanks. That is, you need a new PU, so that the "Package" would perform the functions laid down in the TOR?
        1. Cympak
          Cympak 28 November 2018 15: 54
          +4
          On "Courage2004" Maxim Klimov (aka Mina) voiced the following claims to the "Package":
          1. Storage of torpedoes in TPU does not allow creating a single arsenal of anti-submarine torpedoes for a ship and a helicopter
          2. TPU make the product expensive in testing, training firing. We need reusable launchers, storage of torpedoes separately, which will increase the ammunition and reload at sea.
          3. The huge return on launch requires a serious foundation and deck reinforcement during installation of the launcher. Need reusable pneumatic PU.
          4. The complexity of reloading the "Packet" launcher. To reload, for example, on the project 22350, you need to disassemble the deck and load a new BC using a crane.
          5. The lack of a single torpedo and anti-torpedoes, (it seems that it could have been done right away, but the GK decided differently)
          6. The package requires its own GAS, but I would like the system to interface with existing ones
          7. Separate expensive control panel, which can be replaced by a laptop with appropriate software and interface
          8. It is not clear whether the "Packet" launcher can be on the open deck while all the launchers are mounted inside the ship and shoot through the gate ports. Internal installation of the PU complicates its recharge.
          It seems like everything, "but it's not exactly ..."
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 28 November 2018 16: 10
            +1
            TPU adds storage stability. Although the torpedo and so should be airtight. Really why TPU?
          2. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 28 November 2018 20: 36
            +2
            Plus, all this hellishly increases the cost of the system, which could be many times cheaper. For example, one only destructible TPK cover through which a torpedo shoots, cost a couple of years ago under half a million rubles.

            Well, after the exhaustion of BC the ship turns into a target, because the hands do not charge the package.
            1. Ruslan K
              Ruslan K 4 January 2019 12: 48
              0
              Why don’t you appear on ASh anymore?
          3. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 29 November 2018 09: 58
            0
            - reusable launcher, storage of torpedoes separately, which will increase the ammunition base and reload at sea.

            In time of massive use by the enemy of torpedoes and EW devices, there will be no time for reloading PU. Especially in fresh weather. The sea is not always calm.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 32
              -1
              Quote: gunnerminer
              In time of massive use by the enemy of torpedoes and EW devices, there will be no time for reloading PU. Especially in fresh weather. The sea is not always calm.

              on the other hand, the smaller MGH ADEQUATE PUs allow you to have more ready-made "barrels" on board (than this Crap with TPK which is now)
        2. Cympak
          Cympak 28 November 2018 19: 46
          +4
          That is, you need a new PU, so that the "Package" would perform the functions laid down in the TOR?

          The "package" performs its functions. The problem is in the TK, or rather, in who made it up.
          Minor improvements will reduce the cost of the complex, more widely use it on new ships and when upgrading old warships, increase the number of ships, reduce the cost of operation and increase the potential for modernization. Moreover, the revision will not require large funds and deep NIIR. But the developer, apparently, has no desire to change anything, including lose some of the money. And the admirals of the Navy, apparently, are not going to fight at all, are immediately preparing to report on the heroic death of the crews.
          The IMHO problem is that in our country the Defense Ministry is following the research institutes and defense industry enterprises.
          I will give as an example the situation with vertical launchers (VPU).
          We have separate WPUs for the Shtil-1 complex, a separate WPU for the Reduta, and a separate WPU for the Caliber. A large missile of the S-400/500 naval variant is on its way; it will most likely have its own VPU. And for the Americans and Chinese, all such missiles climb into one universal VPU. I am not advocating one TLU for all types of missiles, let there be several for different missile sizes, but the missiles should be installed in these TLUs regardless of who developed them. If the missiles "do not fit" into the cell, then either the developer modifies its missiles to the existing size, or the Navy decides on a new standard (but the adoption of a new standard must really be justified).
          Standardization reduces operating costs and expands modernization options.
        3. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 29 November 2018 09: 57
          0
          It is necessary to increase the number of PUs. But there is no space clouding, due to the small size of the medium.
        4. Fizik M
          Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 31
          -1
          Quote: smaug78
          Thanks. That is, you need a new PU, so that the "Package" would perform the functions laid down in the TOR?

          TTZ completed
          error with PU was laid just in it
    2. venik
      venik 28 November 2018 13: 54
      0
      Quote: smaug78
      As far as I remember, on "Courage" only the lazy did not kick the "Package"

      =========
      Well, you know, Boris! "Kick a dead lion" can and marmoset..... But here's WHAT will happen if LEO is not really "dead" but just FALLEN asleep ????? laughing crying
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 28 November 2018 15: 08
        0
        How cute you chose not to notice the question ...
        1. venik
          venik 28 November 2018 18: 19
          -1
          Quote: smaug78
          How cute you chose not to notice the question ...

          =========
          "The dashing 90s ... At night, in the center of the city, in a public garden, in a" cafe ", racketeers sat down, who were" surrounded "by riot police .....
          A lazy firefight began ....: "Bang ........ bang-bang ....... bang ..... bang-bang-bang ..... bang ..... ... bang ....
          In one of the houses, next to the square, a window opens and an indignant female cry:
          - Lord! Yes, shoot them already !!
          - In response, the bass of the OMON commander: "Woman, it's you to?? "(Zadornov," Miniatures ")
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 30
      -1
      Quote: smaug78
      As far as I remember, on "Courage" the "Package" was not kicked only by the lazy one in the corresponding branch. Where is the truth?

      I wrote
      what's good about it is torpedo and AT
      but the MSA of the complex and PU with TPK are very, very not ice
  5. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 28 November 2018 22: 48
    0
    I’m wondering, I’ve read several articles on PTZ both for NK and for submarines, everywhere they write about reducing the caliber to 210 mm or less, on the one hand it’s understandable, reducing the caliber can increase the number of torpedoes (missiles) taking into account modern achievements in REO, but there is practically nothing new in fuel, for all developed PTZs, the range is up to 2000 meters, then the question is an amateur and what can not be done in a 324 mm caliber universal torpedo / counter-torpedo?
    1. Cympak
      Cympak 29 November 2018 08: 24
      +1
      A universal torpedo / anti-torpedo in caliber 324 can and should be done for a surface ship. For a submarine, it is better to divide the calibers: a torpedo in the previous caliber 533 mm, and anti-torpedoes / traps in a smaller caliber, but set in a larger quantity.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 34
      -2
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      and what can not be done in the caliber 324 mm universal torpedo / anti-torpedo?

      can and should
      moreover, you can go to lower caliber
  6. Nemchinov Vl
    Nemchinov Vl 3 December 2018 22: 31
    0
    I am certainly not an expert, but I suppose that for an ASW the "packet-NK" complex is like a "Flexible" for providing the ship's air defense. Even the old MPK 1124 had RBU for anti-torpedo defense, but for hunting enemy submarines they had full-fledged 533 mm TA, from which you can use "Physicist" or "Case", which in my opinion is more effective in terms of range (based on performance characteristics). Seemingly new project 20380, it seems that it has a helicopter for detecting enemy submarines at a greater range, but does not have 533 mm TA, but is armed with "Packet-NK" ?? And for me personally, for example, this is strange.
    1. Cympak
      Cympak 11 December 2018 02: 17
      0
      To effectively combat submarines, you need to have an anti-submarine missile system (PLRK). This will give the surface ship an advantage in impact speed over the submarine, which, almost always, has the ability to be the first to detect the surface ship, be the first to attack it with torpedoes, and perform a maneuver to evade the surface ship's response torpedo salvo. The main problem of the 20380 corvettes is the lack of PLRK. The idea of ​​a "cheap" modernization of Project 20380 is to replace the inclined launchers of the Kh-35 "Uran" anti-ship missile system with new inclined launchers, which ensure the launch of the 91R missile-launcher of the "Packet" complex and the X-35 "Uran" anti-ship missiles. The ratio of 4 PLRK and 4 RCC is optimal for a universal corvette. In this case, the project 20380 will practically equal in its capabilities with the project 20385 without significantly changing the initial cost of the project.
      The "Packet-NK" complex is mainly needed for anti-torpedo protection of the ship, as well as for the case when the order of surface ships covered the submarine under their noses or managed to "drive" it by joint coordinated actions.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 13 2019 19: 34
      0
      Quote: Vl Nemchinov
      but for hunting enemy submarines they had full 533 mm TA, from which you can use "Physicist" or "Case"

      must not
      1. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl April 13 2019 20: 15
        0
        Quote: Fizik M

        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        but for hunting enemy submarines they had full 533 mm TA, from which you can use "Physicist" or "Case"

        must not


        If you please joke, but no?!. Although, most likely, you are simply engaged in advertising the "Package-NK" product, well, judging by the content of your last comments
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M April 13 2019 20: 45
          -1
          Quote: Vl Nemchinov
          Although, most likely, you are simply engaged in advertising the "Package-NK" product, well, judging by the content of your last comments

          lol
          YOU are very funny and funny laughing
          but your mind is not your strength;)
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl April 13 2019 21: 34
            0
            Quote: Fizik M
            YOU are very funny and funny
            but your mind is not your strength;)

            as Munchausen used to say, - "smile, gentlemen, - smile! Although a clever facial expression is not a sign of intelligence ....", etc.
            You can give any weighty arguments about the fact that the effectiveness of the "Packet-NK" complex as an anti-torpedo defense is superior, for example, the "Boa constrictor" based on RBU. Then give weighty (factual) arguments, please ... After all, if over time (God forbid, as they say on the one hand), but in the event of any conflict situation, say in the Mediterranean, (around the Syrian conflict), one of the frigates 11356 R / M, will have time to repel the torpedo attack of the enemy submarine from RBU, and successfully counterattack it thanks to the 533 mm TA, and the newer project 22350, in a similar situation, (God forbid, of course) but "will miss" Packet-NK, then how Will you comment on this later and look into the eyes of the widows?
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M April 13 2019 21: 37
              -1
              Quote: Vl Nemchinov
              You can give any weighty arguments about the fact that the effectiveness of the "Packet-NK" complex as an anti-torpedo defense is superior, let's say the same "Boa" based on RBU

              tests 1998g.
              tests 2013g. and further
              RBU IN PRINCIPLE unable to even come close in efficiency
              Quote: Vl Nemchinov
              let's say in the Mediterranean (around the Syrian conflict), one of the frigates 11356 R / M, will have time to repel the torpedo attack of the enemy submarine from RBU, and successfully counterattack it thanks to 533 mm TA,

              THAN?!?!?
              Outdated MG-94M?
              Or 90P1 (in which the probability of a torpedo is generally OKOLENEVOY)
              "hit" with WHAT? - THE OLD TIME OF ANCIENT SET-65?
              at the corvette, by the way, the effective range of torpedoes is MUCH higher
              but there is nothing to say about firing under the conditions of the SCPD - there the possibilities of 11356 are simply NULL
              1. Nemchinov Vl
                Nemchinov Vl April 13 2019 22: 19
                0
                Quote: Fizik M
                RBU IN PRINCIPLE unable to even come close in efficiency

                When you give actual examples of what this statement can follow from, then the continuation of the dialogue will make sense. In the meantime, your "argument - argument" is nothing like anything ...
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M April 14 2019 17: 28
                  -1
                  Quote: Vl Nemchinov
                  When you give actual examples of what this statement can follow from, then the continuation of the dialogue will make sense. In the meantime, your "argument - argument" is nothing like anything ...

                  Mousie, do you want a face on table? will get!
                  the flight time of the same RSL-12 to the minimum range of 400 - 3 from - TO WATER (i.e. without an underwater section)
                  for these 3 torpedo MK48 will be about 90m (at the size of 6m)
                  and with a maximum radius of destruction of its RSL warhead of a couple of meters, GAS errors of the order of 1% of the distance and 1 degree in the corner (I'm not talking about errors in the development of the control center) - try to "hit"!

                  However, with YOU, everything is obvious - YOU are a fat troll which "blazes"
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Fizik M
    Fizik M April 13 2019 20: 47
    -1
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    And most importantly, and what can not be on the MTT torpedo enter the afterburner mode,

    I just remind you - this mode was not just incorporated into it, but also tested on the stand
    overclocked to almost twice the "nominal" power of MTT
  9. max91
    max91 19 September 2021 03: 07
    0
    If you read the comments, the center of design thought for the construction of warships and weapons for them is located in Chelyabinsk.