Military Review

MBT Altay goes to series

55
Since the middle of the last decade, a number of Turkish defense industry enterprises, with the assistance of foreign organizations, have been developing the promising Altay main battle tank. The new machine was intended for the rearmament of armored units; she was to replace various types of military equipment, including obsolete Tanks. After many years of waiting, industry and the army completed all the necessary work, thanks to which a contract for serial production of equipment could appear.


From testing to contract

The main work on the prospective Altay MBT was completed about two years ago. By the beginning of November 2016, the industry completed the tests and fine-tuning of the new armored vehicle, after which several experienced tanks went into units for military trials. Then it was asserted that the army would carry out all checks in a few months, and after that an order for serial production would have to appear. However, the signing of the contract took place with considerable delay.



Until spring of this year, the Turkish leadership determined the organization that was to master the assembly of promising tanks. In April, it was announced that the contract for the production of works will receive the company BMC. At the same time, it was planned to attract a lot of other organizations to the construction of tanks - they had to manufacture and supply various components, components and assemblies. In this case it was only about the results of the competition. The contract for the assembly of equipment was going to be signed later - over the next few months, but without specifying a specific date.

According to the plans of the time, the first production tanks of the Altai were to enter service in the 2019-2020 years. During this period, the industry was supposed to deliver the first batch of 15 armored vehicles. In 2021, it was proposed to build and transfer to the troops more 20 tanks. In total, the needs of the land forces of Turkey were estimated at the 1000 prospective MBT. It was reported about the possibility of dividing this number into four batches of 250 machines. Each new party was supposed to have differences from the previous one, and in fact it was about different modifications of equipment.

Real contract

On November 9, the customer and the executor represented by BMC signed the expected contract for mass production and further servicing of promising tanks. In accordance with the terms of this contract, the contracting company, with the assistance of various subcontractors, will have to build and transfer to the army the first serial Altay MBT over the next 18 months. In the future, the customer will be given another 249 machine of a new type. The exact dates for the completion of all the required supplies have not yet been named. In addition, the cost of serial equipment is not specified. From unofficial sources, it became known that the army will pay about 250 billion US dollars for 3,5 tanks of the first batches.

According to the Turkish press, the order for 250 tanks is divided into two series. The first will include 40 tanks, the second - the remaining 210. The fact is that the tank "Altai" still does not fully correspond to the desired appearance. For one reason or another, the Turkish industry was unable to create or bring to the series a number of necessary components. Thus, the first 40 armored vehicles in their appearance will be similar to an experienced technique, and the next 210 will be seriously different from them.

It should be noted that the simplest arithmetic does not yet allow to set the price of a separate serial tank. The fact is that 3,5 billion dollars will be spent not only on the purchase of tanks, but also on their maintenance during the entire period of operation. In addition, this amount includes the cost of developing and fine-tuning new components planned for implementation in the second series of tanks.



As far as is known, the second series MBT Altay should receive new engines, original protective equipment, etc. This means that a significant proportion of these 3,5 billions will be spent on new research and development, not on building tanks. Not so long ago, new information appeared, according to which tanks will cost only 2 billion dollars, and the remaining 1,5 billion will be spent on the development of auxiliary projects.

According to the latest data, the Turkish command maintains plans for the construction of 1000 promising main tanks. A quarter of this amount is already contracted and should appear in the foreseeable future. The following 750 tanks will be purchased later under separate contracts. It is curious that officials still cannot even give an approximate time frame for the start of production of the following equipment series. Apparently, 251 th “Altai” will be ordered not earlier than machine # XXUMX comes off the conveyor.

The cost of producing all desired tanks also remains unknown. There are various estimates, including the most daring. The most plausible is the forecast, according to which the completion of the development of units, the construction of 1000 tanks and their subsequent operation will cost Turkey about 25-30 billion dollars. Naturally, it will not be one-time spending; they will stretch over many years and decades.

Serial modifications

It is known that different series of Altai tanks will differ significantly from each other. In fact, we are talking about the purchase of equipment of various modifications. The first car in the series will go under the designation Altay T1 - it is planned to purchase all 40 of such tanks. In the future, the army will receive the MBT Altay T2. Apparently, at least 210 tanks will be built on such a project. This will be the second series of the current contract. Perhaps the next contract will also provide for the delivery of a certain amount of T2. In the distant future, construction of cars of the Altay T3 version is expected.

According to the available data, the modification of the Altay T1 is very similar to the experienced tanks that were previously used in tests and repeatedly demonstrated to the public. However, there are innovations. Thus, it is planned to use the active protection complex Aselsan AKKOR on production tanks. It consists of several systems for detecting incoming projectiles and launchers with protective ammunition. The use of KAZ should increase the survivability of the tank when working in various conditions. In the engine compartment of the tank, the MTU diesel engine of 1500 hp power will remain.

Tanks modifications "T2" will differ significantly from the first production vehicles. First of all, it is planned to increase the level of protection through the use of certain components. According to some data, an improved case reservation has been proposed, supplemented by dynamic and active protection. All ammunition 120-mm smooth-bore guns will be rendered in an isolated installation. In this case, it will include guided missiles launched through the barrel of the gun, which will also require the development of a fire control system. Finally, the onboard electronics of the armored vehicle will receive a special mode for crew training.



The Turkish press mentions that the Altay T2 project also provides for the use of a promising camouflage complex, but there is no exact information on this subject. Earlier, exhibitions demonstrated prototypes of technology with characteristic covers that provide visual disguise, as well as possibly reducing visibility in other ranges. Probably, the promising complex will include other means, including electronic warfare devices.

According to various sources, almost all 750 tanks planned for an order in the future will be built according to the Altay T3 project. So far, not too much is known about this modification of the tank. For example, earlier it was reported that the command wants to get the main tank with an uninhabited tower. Information about other features of a promising project is still missing. The terms of appearance of the third version of Altai also remain unclear.

Still unanswered the question of power plants. Experienced Altay tanks were completed with 1500-strong motors of the German company MTU. In the future, a similar engine of Turkish production should appear, but its prospects are vague. In early November, the tank developers recalled the continuation of work in this direction, but noted that they could not be completed within the next 18 months - until the appearance of the first production tank. It probably follows from this that the first batch of 40 machines from the Altay T1 will receive imported engines. Moreover, while there is no clarity on the following modifications. Whether the designers from Turkey will have time to create and work out a new engine before the launch of the production of T2 tanks is unknown.

New instead of old

In the future, Turkey plans to build 1000 tanks "Altai" of three modifications. This technique is intended to upgrade the fleet of armored troops, the state of which leaves much to be desired. According to known data, the Turkish ground forces have more than 2400 medium and main tanks of various types. Of these, only 400 can be called fully modern and meet current requirements. At the same time, the basis of armored troops are repeatedly upgraded tanks M48 and M60 American production. They, above all, will be replaced by the new MBT Altay.

The most massive tanks of Turkey are the M60 family vehicles - more than 930 units. In service, there are still more than a hundred tanks of the M60A1 version. More advanced M60A3 TTS are available in quantities over 650 units. Less than two hundred M60 tanks have been upgraded by Sabra. Due to the installation of additional reservations and improved electronics, they generally comply with current requirements, but for a number of indicators they lose to “full-fledged” main tanks. Probably, the Sabra will remain in service, while the tanks of the A1 and A3 TTS versions will be replaced.



Less numerous are the M48A3 and M48A5T2 tanks - more than 750 units. These tanks are significantly different from the base "Patton", but they can not remain in operation forever. The number of M48 is gradually reduced due to the final moral and physical obsolescence.

In service, only slightly less than four hundred German-made Leopard 1 tanks remain in service. More massive (about 230 pieces) are armored Leopard 1A3. The 170 tanks of the Leopard 1A1 modification that were in service in the past were upgraded by the T1 project. However, this technique also faces the problem of obsolescence.

Truly modern can be considered less than 350 tanks Leopard 2A4. All this equipment previously served in the German Bundeswehr, and was later sold to Turkey. In the recent past, all existing “Leopards-2” were modernized by local industry. Not so long ago, the fleet of such tanks numbered more than 350 units, but the well-known events of the end of 2016 in Syria markedly reduced their numbers.

As you can see, the state of the Turkish armored vehicles park leaves much to be desired. It is based on modernized, but outdated cars in every sense. Newer models are available in smaller quantities, and besides, they were not able to show their best during the battles. Obviously, in such a situation, the army really needs completely new armored combat vehicles. At the same time, it is impossible not to notice that the amount of obsolete equipment is almost twice the number of “Altaev” planned for the order. In the distant future, no more than 1000 brand new tanks will go into service, whereas almost 2000 units of armored vehicles need to be replaced.

Apparently, when replacing armored vehicles, not quantity but quality will be put at the forefront. The prospective Altay MBT, for obvious reasons, has significant advantages over all existing M48, M60 and Leopard 1, and therefore the troops have the ability to maintain or even increase their potential with a reasonable reduction in the number of vehicles. Whether it will be possible to realize such perspectives of “Altai” in practice will become clear later.

Program weaknesses

The development of the main Altay tank project started in the 2005 year, and the general appearance of the car was presented only five years later. In 2015-m for the first time showed a prototype. Thus, it took “only” 13 years from the start of development to the signing of a contract for mass production. To this should be added one and a half years allocated for the construction of the first production tanks. All this allows the project "Altai" to be rightfully called long-term construction.



The main reason for this delays is the overall difficulty of creating both a modern main battle tank as a whole and its individual components. For example, the new Turkish diesel for tanks is still not ready, and while the designers can not name the exact dates of its entry into production. Also at the development stage there are some other systems that are planned to be introduced only in new versions of “T2” and “T3”.

In accordance with the terms of the new contract, the first serial Altay MBT should be received by the troops no later than 2020 of the year, and the production of the remaining 249 machines will take several more years. So far, there are no guarantees that production will not face new problems, and this will not lead to delay in work. Officials have not yet specified the deadlines for completing the construction of 250 ordered tanks, and this may be the reason for pessimistic forecasts.

However, the tightening of serial production of the first series of tanks has its positive aspects. An excessively long release of two and a half hundred combat vehicles will create a certain amount of time to complete the development of the Altay T3 project. Special requirements are imposed on it, which affects the complexity and timing of work. As a result, delaying the construction of the first 250 tanks can be useful for designers.

Known information suggests that the Turkish industry, despite all the difficulties, will still be able to fulfill the first order for the production of Altay tanks. However, the question of the timing of the completion of construction remains unanswered. It is also not possible to guarantee that the total cost of the work will remain within the scope of the approved financing. As for the next order and the project Altay T3, their fate directly depends on the current work.

In general, the situation from some points of view gives grounds for optimism, but along with them there are also grounds for negative forecasts. Whether Turkey will be able to successfully complete one of the most interesting recent projects will be known later. She will have to make every effort, since the future of the armored troops directly depends on the success of the Altai project.

On the materials of the sites:
https://otokar.com.tr/
http://janes.com/
https://dailysabah.com/
https://iz.ru/
https://armyrecognition.com/
https://defence-blog.com/
http://military-today.com/
https://defenseindustrydaily.com/
Author:
Photos used:
Otokar Otomotiv ve Savunma Sanayi A.Ş. / otokar.com.tr, Armyrecognition.com
55 comments
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  1. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 27 November 2018 09: 54
    +2
    At this rate, they will not have time to visit Syria.
    1. svp67
      svp67 27 November 2018 13: 32
      0
      Quote: Anton Yu
      At this rate, they will not have time to visit Syria.

      Yes, in time, it will be interesting to look at the results of his tests in battle. I don’t really like the protection of its sides.
      1. Yar_Vyatkin
        Yar_Vyatkin 27 November 2018 14: 25
        0
        There is no armor in the forehead. Tank generally terrible, what can I say? Well, the BC in the case is the right way to detonations from one hit, like Leo-2 had. The K-2 itself has never been a masterpiece, although it is interesting, but this one is without a AZ, and weighted, and without a normal KAZ (Ukrainian working only in Mr. Baron’s articles, sorry, do not offer).
        1. Kalkan
          Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 23
          0
          how did you determine his frontal reservation given that it is better than K2 and this is official information
          1. Red_Baron
            Red_Baron 27 November 2018 21: 29
            +6
            A person sees in the photo, as well as guessing, bewitching and damaging him.
      2. Red_Baron
        Red_Baron 27 November 2018 21: 32
        +1
        In the bottom photo, the side armor is perfectly visible. All are standard blocks, and there is a grille at the back, what is wrong with it?
        1. svp67
          svp67 28 November 2018 03: 29
          +1
          Quote: Red_Baron
          In the bottom photo, the side armor is perfectly visible. All are standard blocks, and there is a grille at the back, what is wrong with it?

          The "skirt" is a bit high, there are unprotected areas between the rinks
          1. Red_Baron
            Red_Baron 28 November 2018 03: 38
            0
            Yes, Leopard 2 is about the same.
            1. svp67
              svp67 28 November 2018 03: 42
              +1
              Quote: Red_Baron
              Yes, Leopard 2 is about the same.

              So, what is there, what is here - the "gloomy German genius" did these "panzers"
              1. Red_Baron
                Red_Baron 28 November 2018 05: 16
                +1
                I hint at it :)
                Only in the latest versions of Leo's skirt is longer. But if the appearance of the tank will change even in the first batch, then everything can change.
                Or for the Turks, a possible loss of mobility does not look so terrible.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 28 November 2018 11: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Red_Baron
                  Or for the Turks, a possible loss of mobility does not look so terrible.

                  Yes, there is not only loss of mobility, there is a bare board ...
          2. loft79
            loft79 28 November 2018 07: 48
            0
            What is the percentage of hits in these areas? ) I guess is relatively small. Interest is the contents of the boxes. And so the scheme and geometry of the side protection for all tanks is almost the same. Board ~ 50-60 mm, distance in width of rollers and hinged boxes.
  2. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 10: 41
    -1
    Yeah, Turkish tank building as Indian, it’s still unfinished, and there is nothing revolutionary in the Altai tank, only licenses and adaptation of technologies already used on other types of BTTs, but the price killed me, for a batch of 250 tanks they ask for $ 3,5 billion, then there is $ 14000000 for the tank, tin, hello to those who tore the throat about the fact that the T-14 Armata tank is very expensive, the cost is 400000000 rubles, that is, at today's green $ exchange rate it will cost $ 5982650 for one Armata tank, and the tank is revolutionary and nor any continuity with the previous tank, unlike Altai, which created on the basis of Leopard 2. Yes, the numbers are a stubborn thing, but cut the dough even more abruptly.
    1. Corn
      Corn 27 November 2018 10: 53
      +2
      Apparently this cost, taking into account all the purchases of licenses, R&D, the construction of new production lines, usually these costs go separately from the cost of equipment and completely fall on the shoulders of the state.
      When selling for export there will be a completely different price tag.
      But the question of expediency has not gone away, wasn’t it easier to continue to purchase German Leo2, the place of its Turkish copy ...
      1. protoss
        protoss 27 November 2018 12: 56
        +1
        Usually these expenses go separately from the cost of equipment and completely fall on the shoulders of the state.

        It's in Russia. As I understand it, in Turkey, the production of arms in most cases, and in this case, is also the business of private companies.
        In this case, the developer of the tank is Otokar, and the tender for production is from BMJ. and so the otokar, having won a tender for development for 500 million tanks, as a result spent about 2 billion, but did not receive a tender for production and, accordingly, will not repay its losses. on the other hand, if bmje does not cope with the fulfillment of his contract, then he can return to Otokar.
        while the state spends exactly as much as planned.
      2. Yeraz
        Yeraz 29 November 2018 01: 56
        0
        Quote: Corn
        Apparently this cost, taking into account all the purchases of licenses, R&D, the construction of new production lines, usually these costs go separately from the cost of equipment and completely fall on the shoulders of the state.

        not visible. The article wrote in plain text about this, so it’s difficult to understand the price of the tank. These 3.5 billion are included and all the service to the end
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 27 November 2018 10: 59
      +4
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      which is created on the basis of Leopard-2

      It seemed to me that based on the Korean panther K2!
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 11: 11
        -1
        No, based on Leopard 2
        1. Kalkan
          Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 29
          +1
          Altai is made on the basis of K2, or rather, according to official information, it is about 60% and is the base K2
      2. Corn
        Corn 27 November 2018 11: 13
        +1
        You might think that K2 is not based on leo2.
        From a distance of a couple of hundred subways, these 3 tanks will be difficult to distinguish even a man versed in military equipment.
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 14: 34
          +3
          The K2 Black Panther tank was created on the basis of K1, and the K1 tank was created on the basis of the M1 Abrams tank, a so-called smaller version of the Abrams tank, under the specifics of Korean anthropometry.
      3. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 11: 20
        0
        If they did Black Panther on the basis of K2, then it would have come out more expensively, the K2 tank is the only tank in the world with semi-automatic suspension, which in itself sharply increases the cost of the tank, in addition, the K2 has a six-wheeled tank, and although this is not important, the Altai tank is designed for a large mass, 60 + tons will be installed additional systems in each new batch of tanks.
        1. Kalkan
          Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 30
          0
          an additional skating rink was installed in Altai due to increased frontal armor ...
          1. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 23: 26
            +1
            All in all, the seventh skating rink is due to frontal armor, which means you didn’t carefully read the article, the tank chassis load reserve is made for the prospect of mass growth, the article itself writes about the T2 and T3 models on which additional armor will be placed (active, etc.), of all tank chassis in the Western world, only the German chassis based on the Leopard-2 and the Israeli chassis based on the Merkava-4 are the most load-bearing, the rest do not reach it, maybe Abrams with the TUSK kit weighs 72 tons, while others cannot.
      4. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 27 November 2018 11: 50
        0
        About what base the tank is made on.https: //topwar.ru/134783-reynmetall-skrytaya-storona-sdelki-po-sozdaniyu-sovmestnogo-germano-tureckogo-tanka-altay.html, very interesting, I advise you to read.
        1. Kalkan
          Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 34
          -1
          the information in the article by the link that you provided does not disclose on which basis Altai was created ... The article is a little different.
          1. Kalkan
            Kalkan 28 November 2018 05: 38
            +2
            Interestingly, the minuser is able to justify his own action?
            1. merkava-2bet
              merkava-2bet 28 November 2018 05: 59
              0
              The same question, minus me left and right?
    3. Kalkan
      Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 27
      0
      You should read the article carefully before writing a comment. The article clearly states that $ 3,5 billion is not only the cost of tanks, so tank price cannot be determined by simple arithmetic. According to some information (which by the way is mentioned in the article), the cost of 250 tanks will be $ 2 billion, and the remaining 1,5 are expenses for research and development ...
    4. Kalkan
      Kalkan 27 November 2018 20: 35
      +1
      You should read the article carefully before writing a comment. The article clearly states that $ 3,5 billion is not only the cost of tanks, so tank price cannot be determined by simple arithmetic. According to some information (which by the way is mentioned in the article), the cost of 250 tanks will be $ 2 billion, and the remaining 1,5 are expenses for research and development ...
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 28 November 2018 00: 40
        +1
        Well, let it be $ 2 billion, and this is $ 8000000 for a tank that has nothing that was invented in Turkey, just pulled out from different tanks (Leopard-2, K2 Black Panther, etc.) and how the puzzle was put together and there are still big problems with Moreover, if someone wants to read in more detail about this tank, as well as about others on the basis of which Altai was created, there are at least ten articles on this tank on this site.
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 29 November 2018 01: 58
          +1
          Quote: merkava-2bet
          and this is $ 8000000 per tank, which has nothing that was invented in Turkey, just pulled out of different tanks

          Well, maybe that's why dear, because a bunch of everything imported, not yours ??
  3. san4es
    san4es 27 November 2018 11: 03
    +5
    In 2015, for the first time showed a prototype.
    Crew, person: 4
    Developer: Turkey Otokar (lead developer)
    Republic of Korea Hyundai Rotem (technical support)
    Manufacturer: Turkey Savunma Sanayii Mustesarligi
    Years of development: 2007 - 2017
    Years of production: since 2020 (plan)
    Number of issued, pcs .: 4 prototypes
    Weight Altai tank
    - 60 tons
    Dimensions of the Altai tank
    - body Length, mm: 7735
    - Length with gun forward, mm: 10 307
    - housing width, mm: 3972
    - Height, mm: 2640
    Armor tank Altai
    - Type of armor: combined protivosnaryadny
    weaponry
    - Caliber and brand of gun: 120 mm MKEK120
    - gun type: smoothbore
    - barrel length, calibres: 55
    - gun ammunition: 57
    - Machine guns: 1 × 7,62 mm; 1 × 12,7 mm
    Engine of the Altai tank
    - engine type: diesel
    - Engine power, l. c .: 1500
    Tank speed Altai
    - Speed ​​on the highway, km / h: 70
    - Cruising on the highway, km: 500
    - The overcome wall, m: 1,0
    - The overcome ditch, m: 2,8
    - Overcoming ford, m: 1,2 (4,1 with OPVT) hi
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 27 November 2018 21: 50
      +2
      Tank, handsome.
      1. Red_Baron
        Red_Baron 28 November 2018 01: 43
        +1
        I can not agree, it looks very beautiful.
  4. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 27 November 2018 18: 56
    -2
    the Turks are already launching a modern tank into series production, but we still have the T-72 "very popular". On the one hand, we have 72 so many of the USSR left that it is simply not reasonable to write them off, but on the other hand, the tank is really outdated and the 72B3 also looks very sour and does not satisfy modern realities at all, it seems they made some noise and calmed down
  5. Red_Baron
    Red_Baron 27 November 2018 21: 38
    +1
    To be honest, I did not understand what Altai is like. And why is it being built at all. In the yard of 2018, well, development began earlier, but now it makes sense to invest a lot of money only in a promising tank. Why engage in a tank, which in this regard is nothing of itself?
    But I haven’t seen it anywhere, and this is not particularly possible, as long as there is very little information, how is it better than the tanks on which it is based? Some interesting modern technologies are also not visible. I’m not talking about weapons at all.
    I have a big suspicion that the Altai project is a purely economic and political decision. On the one hand, they place an order and give work to companies, on the other hand, they pay a lot of money to Western partners, so that they do not abandon Turkey in spite of its impudent statements and a certain visible confrontation with the USA.
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 27 November 2018 23: 17
      +6
      Everything is very simple. In the end, Turkey needs its own weapons, so that later it would not be prohibited or prevented by restricting supplies of equipment and ammunition. Example: Turkey used to buy 70% of supplies for tank guns, all artillery and bombs abroad. Now they produce 96% shells for guns and 98% of all aerial bombs. Turkey experienced many moments that manufacturers of tanks and other equipment stupidly forbade the use of their equipment outside of Turkey, if they did not obey, then immediately reduced the supply of spare parts and supplies. There was a time, only a few years ago that the Turks insisted on drones from Israel (for the money of course) and they sold a couple of pieces, but with conditions. This condition sometimes reached the point of absurdity, which prevented the use of purchased devices on time, when needed, making them almost unnecessary. How did it end ? The fact that the Turks quickly began to produce their reconnaissance and combat drones. For a country that wants to at least somehow reckon with it, it is necessary to produce key armaments and supplies. This is the weight of cheese boron.
      1. Red_Baron
        Red_Baron 27 November 2018 23: 28
        +2
        You are certainly right, but that’s what the Turks are doing strange tank, which for the most part uses parts and components of just Western tanks. The same engine as a whole. Moreover, this saga is very incomprehensible, where are the developments of similar engines that made it possible to plan its rapid creation? They are not there and it is not clear how many will not be yet, and the tanks are ready to go into production. Do Turks have a lot of their developments for other nodes? I don’t see the tanks of their production, where are the same MSAs, cannons are used, where is the electronics? I am not an expert, but something tells me that this is all out of the blue is not created especially for serious purposes. What is it besides developing years and years of bringing to mind. And use the western ones all this time? But this is all the same a binding and serious.
        Not only that, the tanks will not be alone in some operations, but the rest of the equipment is mostly western.
        1. protoss
          protoss 27 November 2018 23: 57
          +2
          so the rest of the equipment is mostly western.

          Well, if you look at for example video and photos of Turkish operations in the same Syria, then we will see mainly Turkish-made equipment - on the land of acv, cobra, kirpi, in the air atak, bayraktar.
          1. Red_Baron
            Red_Baron 28 November 2018 00: 15
            +2
            That is, on the ground M113, VBL, Navigator, none of which have serious fire control systems and are armed mainly with small-caliber automatic guns.
            In the sky F-16, F-5, F-4.
            And I have no doubt that Turkey is capable of producing something. But I don’t know the development. Well, seriously consider drones only or their own development based on technology and the experience of already manufactured equipment?
            Perhaps of course I am incredulously distrustful of their development. But I do not want to humiliate her at all. It seems to me that Altai is an excellent tank at the beginning of the 2000s.
            1. protoss
              protoss 28 November 2018 08: 32
              +1
              you have run into "your own development." this is not bad, but not important. as I see, for Turkey, weapons are a means, not an end. purely utilitarian approach. all this iron junk is needed not as a thing in itself, but for specific practical tasks within the framework of an implemented domestic and foreign policy, which in Turkey is determined by the economy.
              in the case of weapons, the Turks are aimed at complete “import substitution” in order to improve the country's balance of payments, increase employment and, as the colleague said above, to avoid the requirements and restrictions imposed by foreign arms manufacturers (free hands). therefore, the main goal is the complete localization of production at home, incl. by purchasing the necessary licenses. the task of overtaking everyone by know-how and riveting something unique and unlike the products of other countries is not posed.
              1. Red_Baron
                Red_Baron 28 November 2018 14: 32
                0
                In this case, there are no questions. But as far as I can see from the articles and information the positioning of the tank is still not so simple.
                And in this case, the question of the prospects of the tank and its development arises even higher. But this is a matter of the future.
                1. Oquzyurd
                  Oquzyurd 28 November 2018 15: 02
                  0
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDHosNdwP10 Если не увидели ,на этом видео есть частичное ознакомление с турецким ВПК.
                  1. Red_Baron
                    Red_Baron 28 November 2018 16: 24
                    +1
                    Beautiful video, I really liked it.
                    But Apaches, arrow, mk19, browning m2, m113 I have already seen.

                    https://army-news.ru/2015/08/tureckaya-promyshlennost-boevyx-mashin/
                    here is an interesting article, even though it’s 15 years old.

                    And I have no doubt at all about the capabilities of the Turkish military-industrial complex to produce something.
        2. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 28 November 2018 01: 46
          +2
          I gave you some figures for clarity that where they were and where they came from for the production of military equipment and supplies. The engine on the first batch of 250 tanks will be German, and then the engines will arrive in time for the next batch. By agreement, local companies BMC Otomotiv Sanayi took over the engine ve Ticaret AŞ. The main filling of the tank, from active protection to managing all systems is developed and produced by the local company Aselsan. The production of combined armor is carried out by the local company Roketsan. The new generation of tank shells is let in by the local ompaniya MKE (Makine ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu)
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 28 November 2018 02: 10
            +2
            I must say: well done. Creating your own tank is not easy. And with a large percentage of proprietary components. And starting production, and not just creating prototypes, is also not easy.
            1. Red_Baron
              Red_Baron 28 November 2018 02: 43
              +1
              uh, hey, do you plan to start production at the end of 2020?
          2. Red_Baron
            Red_Baron 28 November 2018 02: 40
            +2
            Dear Jeykhun, I reviewed your numbers and learned a lot of interesting things. Do not consider my words for trying to obkhayat tank, or its manufacturers or customer.
            Moreover, I believe that Turkey, with its ambitions, a large army and participation in various conflicts, simply needs to have its own tank. Modern MBT is certainly not an aircraft carrier, but also not a simple thing. Moreover, there are a lot of dilemmas in it. We are improving this, decreasing this and so on. How correct is this path, how profitable, as far as possible time will tell. See what stages of modernization all modern MBT of tank-producing powers went through. What is Russia, what is Germany, what is the USA, what is Great Britain, what is France, what is China. After all, all this is the development of the devil of what years. How successfully all this will go Turkey, instead of decades in a few years, I do not know. Given that the creation of the tank is not Turkish in fact.

            But other countries also have home-made MBTs, but something is not heard about them especially on the international market, or in any serious discussions. What are the operation of Arjuns, Zulfikara, Ariet, K2, type10. and who needs them at all is not so well known.

            And now we look at Altai - its rather low Turkish technological component. Its launch and production is possible while MBT of other countries are undergoing the latest modernization to extend the service life and are preparing to develop new ones. According to the data that I saw and read, I do not see any features in Altai that can be found in other tanks of the latest modifications. He does not surpass in anything, but rather lags behind them. And at the same time it costs a lot of money, it is clear that this is the first batch of the second will be cheaper. It is not known which to operate. And despite your words, it is made of components from other countries, that is, it is not a departure from borrowing technologies, but rather full borrowing. And I will only be glad if these technologies go to Turkey for money or something else. For example, licensed production of an engine, a cannon, and more.
            That is, if it was just positioning as a replacement for obsolete tanks - that’s what you need, only I would be more ofigel of the price. But a modern promising tank, and even possibly a competitor to the Western one, is not at all sure.
            1. protoss
              protoss 28 November 2018 08: 36
              +5
              The Turks rivet the Rheinmatall guns themselves, the necessary licenses are available at mek.
          3. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 28 November 2018 03: 34
            +2
            Regarding the engine, recognized authorities in the world are Germans who are most likely to buy a license, it is impossible to create a tank diesel engine from scratch without powerful research and experience in other areas, just buy a license and improve it on the basis of this, it’s a fact. For example, the K2 tank Black Panther has had problems with the power plant for many years, there is an article on this site, you can read, moreover, South Koreans are thinking about buying German diesels, the Japanese also have problems with diesel and suspension, the French also have problems with the diesel Hyperbar, so the tanks sold to Arabic Emirates with a MTU 880 family diesel engine, German, and even the British and Americans have been looking towards MTU diesel engines for many years, and especially at the new PowerPack diesel engine.
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 4 December 2018 17: 44
              +1
              Quote: merkava-2bet
              Regarding the engine, recognized authorities in the world are Germans

              as it is clear from the article, the German 40 will go to the first XNUMX. the next batch will already be with the Turkish, but the question of how Turkish they are is quite muddy. for example, my acquaintance Turk from the tank community in Google assures that this is a completely Turkish development, but he is a patriot .... maybe there will be a license but with full localization of production. you need to understand that the main goal of the Turks in this project is the complete localization of production in Turkey. so that not a single screw from abroad.
  6. Red_Baron
    Red_Baron 28 November 2018 00: 20
    +1
    Quote: _Ugene_
    already the Turks launch a modern tank in a series

    Modern to whom?
    Quote: _Ugene_
    and we still have the T-72 "very popular"

    And what do you think the T-72 is not in demand? Few countries owning it, few wanting to modernize, few reselling, few wanting, including buying? Do not stoop to complete nonsense.
    Quote: _Ugene_
    On the one hand, we have 72 so much left of the USSR that it is simply not reasonable to write them off, but on the other hand the tank is really outdated and 72B3 also looks very sour and does not satisfy modern realities at all

    Like what?
    Quote: _Ugene_
    with armature seem to have made noise and calmed down

    That is, plans for the release of this to the Turks are possible, but Russia is not .... logical.
  7. Red_Baron
    Red_Baron 28 November 2018 14: 39
    +1
    To be honest, I do not understand something. An interesting topic and the most important for VO, but there are some comments, although there is something to read in the article and in them. I personally learned a lot from my colleagues, for which I am grateful.
    But the neighboring stuffing about who stole somewhere, that everything was gone and that's enough to endure, is instantly filled with hundreds. Strange interests of people on a military-themed website.
  8. Babur_Imperat
    Babur_Imperat 31 January 2019 22: 26
    0
    In short, they need to write, if they need it so badly, they will quickly put it all on the rails, and old cars work well for attacks, you need to count money well and they don’t offend anyone in NATO, they offend others, they’re centuries-old friends of Germans, Germans help with weapons during emergency