The cruiser "Varangian". Fight at Chemulpo January 27, 1904. Part 21. Conclusion

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In the final article of the cycle, we will bring together all the basic facts and conclusions that we have made in previous materials.

History the cruiser "Varyag" began in a highly strange way: the contract with C. Crump (from our side was signed by the head of the GUKiS, Vice Admiral V. P. Verhovsky) was signed on April 11 on April 1898, outside of the official competition competitive projects of other foreign firms. At the same time, in essence, C. Crump did not submit any draft cruiser at all: the contract implied that the American industrialist would create such a project based on the specification, which, however, should be agreed upon after the contract was signed. The contract itself contained only a preliminary specification of the most general nature, while it contained a lot of shortcomings: discrepancies in the English and Russian texts of documents, vague wording, arithmetic errors, and - most strangely - the document contained direct violations of the requirements of the Maritime Technical Committee (ITC). And finally, the cost of the contract and the procedure for determining supercontract payments were unprofitable for Russia and, subsequently, raised questions from the state controller, senator T. I. Filippov, which the Maritime Office could not answer in any satisfactory manner. In general, it can be stated that the contract with the American industrialist was drafted extremely illiterate.



One of the major violations was the permission to use Nikloss system boilers on the new cruiser, while the MTK insisted on Belleville boilers. In fact, the requirements of the Maritime Department for the latest cruisers could not be met with Belleville boilers, and, subsequently, the MTK was forced to abandon this requirement - both Askold and Bogatyr were equipped with boilers of other systems (Schulz-Tonikroft, Norman) , but MTK strongly objected to Nikloss's boilers, considering them unreliable. Unfortunately, experts were late, and the ban on the use of Nikloss boilers in the Russian imperial navy It was signed three days later than the contracts for the construction of Retvisan and Varyag. In this matter, Vice Admiral V.P. Verkhovsky acted on his own initiative and contrary to the requirements of the MTK: however, in fairness it should be noted that at that time there was no reliable evidence of the flawed design of Nikloss boilers. MTK came to its conclusions not from operating experience, but based on a theoretical analysis of the design.

In fact, the history of operation of the Nikloss boilers is very peculiar, because individual ships that received boilers of this type went quite successfully to the seas (at least - at first) - in other cases, the operation of such boilers led to numerous accidents. This usually makes a conclusion about insufficient qualifications of machine teams, but our analysis shows that another interpretation is possible - the Nicloss boilers required such a jewelery fitting of parts (removable tubes to the collectors), which if could be ensured, only at the best enterprises in the world . At the same time, the Varyag boilers were produced by an American enterprise, which had not been engaged in Nicloss boilers before. This, and the fact that the American fleet immediately abandoned the Nikloss boilers immediately after obtaining a minimum operating experience, and subsequently converted five of the seven ships, originally built with Nikloss boilers, to other brands, indicates that the problems nevertheless, they are much more connected with the boilers of Russian ships not with the professionalism of the crew, but with their low quality, boilers, and manufacturing. Well, in those cases where the boilers of Niklossa were manufactured at first-class European factories, at least at first they worked quite stably.

The design flaws of the Varyag boilers, unfortunately, were complemented by the unsuccessful adjustment of its machines. They worked stably only at high vapor pressure (15,4 of the atmosphere), otherwise the low pressure cylinders did not perform their function - instead of rotating the crankshaft, which set the ship's propellers, they themselves were set in motion by the crankshaft. Naturally, similar stresses were not foreseen by the structure, which is why the bearings and other structural elements of the cruiser steam engines quickly loosened. As a result, a vicious circle was formed - it was dangerous to operate the Nicloss boilers, creating a large vapor pressure, and with a small car, it gradually destroyed itself. According to the opinion of the most experienced engineer I.I. Gippius, who studied in detail the Varyag cars in Port Arthur:

“Here, a self-suggestion suggests itself that the Crump plant, in a hurry to hand over the cruiser, did not have time to verify the steam distribution; The car quickly got upset, and on the ship, naturally, they began to fix the parts that suffered more than others in the sense of heating, knocking, without eliminating the root cause. In general, straightening the vehicle, originally released from the factory with ship's means, is undoubtedly an extremely difficult, if not impossible, task. ”


Unfortunately, all these circumstances were not revealed when the ship was handed over to the fleet. It is difficult to say whether this was due to the mistakes of the selection committee, or the result of the pressure of Charles Krump, who was striving not to stick to the spirit, but to the letter of the contract. The other “six thousand meter” cruiser “Askold” was not accepted by the commission until it had developed the speed set by the contract, without having any damage in the car, but in the case of “Varyag” it was not done: the fact of achieving a contract speed, despite the fact that after that his power plant needed substantial repairs.



As a result, the service of the cruiser Varyag turned into endless torment with a power plant: so, during the transition from Philadelphia to Russia and further, the cruiser had 102 running days for Port Arthur, but it took at least 73 of the day to provide them repairs at parking lots and in ports, and this is not counting the repair that was carried out at sea during the crossings (and that was done, the cruiser went to the part of the boilers, the rest were repaired). Nothing like this was observed on the ships of the national fleet of French or Russian construction. After arriving in Port Arthur, the cruiser immediately got up for repair: in 1902, after leaving the armed reserve, the squadron of the Pacific Ocean was engaged in combat training for 9 months, and Varyag spent almost half of this time in repairs and as a great personal yacht Prince Kirill Vladimirovich (who decided to visit Taku). In 1903, the situation was even worse - while the squadron during 7 months (from March to September) was intensively trained, Varyag underwent various tests for the first 3,5 months to determine the success of winter repairs, as well as the endless overhaul of mechanisms (engineer II Gippius was working on the cruiser just at this time). The following 3,5 of the month the cruiser stood in the repair, which ended, alas, as unsuccessfully as the previous ones - Varyag could consistently maintain speeds no higher than 16-17 nodes, could briefly develop 20, but with the risk of boilers crashing or damage to the machines. When "Varyag", finally, came out of repair, the review started, which the vicegerent EI gave the squadron Alekseev: there were many boat exercises during the last, but there was almost no combat training. As if all this was not enough, at the end of 1903 from the cruiser (as well as from other ships of the squadron), many old servicemen were demobilized, including almost half of the gunners.

In general, it can be stated that by the time of leaving Chemulpo, the cruiser Varyag was a low-speed (even Pallada and Diane lost) cruiser with a rastrenirovannym crew. Despite the fact that V.I. Rem, and who replaced him as commander of the Varyag cruiser VF Rudnev, made great efforts to prepare the commanders, the endless downtime in repairs, especially during the 1903 campaign, in which the cruiser practically did not participate, led to the fact that the Varyag, in terms of the quality of the training of the artillerymen, was much inferior to the other squadron ships.

Unlike most of the remaining ships of the squadron, the cruiser was not withdrawn to an armed reserve and at the end of 1903 he was sent as stationary to the Korean port of Chemulpo, where he arrived on December 29 - less than a month remained before the famous battle.
Having come to Chemulpo VF Rudnev landed in the information vacuum. Politically, and at the highest level, the situation was as follows: Russia was not ready to start the war in 1904, and this was realized by everyone, including the tsar and his governor Alekseev. Korea was considered not as an independent state, but only as a battleground of Japanese and Russian interests — and also other European and Asian powers saw it. Therefore, if the Japanese began annexing Korea without declaring war on Russia, it was decided to put up with it and not hinder it — such instructions were received by the commander of the cruiser Varyag, which was directly forbidden from interfering with the Japanese landing.

Soon after the arrival of VF Rudnev discovered numerous evidences that the Japanese are going to land the troops in Chemulpo, and regularly reported on the authorities, without, however, receiving any additional instructions. He did not even bother to report the severance of diplomatic relations with Japan, although such rumors reached, but the Russian envoy to Korea, A.I. Pavlov did not confirm them. V.F. Rudnev seemed much better than the envoy felt the danger of the situation and offered to leave Korea, but A.I. Pavlov did not agree to this either, dissuading the lack of instructions.

Since, due to the absence of orders to the Russian commanders and diplomats, there was a feeling that the Japanese were intercepting VF’s telegrams. Rudnev and A.I. Pavlov, a Korean was sent to Port Arthur with a report. By chance, the gunboat moved to the sea just when the Japanese squadron approached Chemulpo with a landing force - they collided at the exit from the territorial waters, which caused some confusion among the Japanese who did not know what to do - they would have sunk the Korean, he would meet they are at sea, but because of the raid, foreign stationary officers did not do this. "Asama" failed, maneuvering so as to be between the "Korean" and the transport with the landing force, which, apparently, was perceived by the commander of the cannon-ship, GP Belyaev as an attempt to block his access to the sea. “Korean” turned on the raid, and at that time was attacked by Japanese destroyers, operating without orders - during a short skirmish (two torpedoes were fired, the cannon boat responded with two projectiles) the Japanese destroyer “Tsubame” suffered, not calculating the maneuver and taking off for the stones , as a result of which its screws were damaged, limiting the speed of the ship to 12 units.

The charges V.F. Rudnev in that he did not support the “Korean” with fire and did not prevent the landing of the Japanese landing force by force, are completely groundless. The cruisers could not see the use of torpedoes by the Japanese and could only hear the shots of the “Korean”, and this was not a significant reason for the immediate opening of fire: if the “Korean” had entered the battle, he would continue to shoot, but that wasn’t not threatened. A pair of small-caliber shots could be warning, or even made by mistake. The Varyag commander simply did not have the right to interfere with the Japanese landing - he was instructed not to interfere with the landing party. In addition, he did not have the physical ability to do this - by the time GP G. arrived at the Varyag. Belyaev reported on the torpedo attack, four Japanese destroyers of the 9 squad had already entered the raid and were stationed in close proximity to the Russian ships.

In other words, it was not required to open fire to protect the "Korean", since by that time, as it could be done, the gunboat was not in danger. But if the "Varyag" still started shooting, it would lead to the violation of V.F. Rudnev received the order, the violation of the neutrality of Korea and the war with Japan, which was absolutely not profitable for Russia, moreover, was fraught with complications in international politics, since it threatened the foreign stationary on Chemulpo raid. In addition, in the case of the discovery of fire, both Russian ships would have been very quickly destroyed without any benefit, since they were under the gun of the destroyers and the squadron of S. Uriou entering the raid.

Of course, shooting torpedoes at a Russian warship should not go unpunished, but in this case, the leadership of the Russian Empire, but not the commander of the 1 cruiser, should determine the “penalty”.

The battle between “Varyag” and “Koreyets” with the Japanese squadron took place the next day - in fact, with V.F. Rudnev still remained evening and night in order to take some action. However, he had no choice - he could not attack the Japanese transports for the reasons mentioned above, and he could not leave the raid, as he was under the gun of the Japanese destroyers who could sink Russian ships immediately, or escort them to the exit from international waters in order to immediately destroy them as soon as the latter leave neutral territory. Numerous alternative scenarios of the night breakthrough of the “Varyag” “sin” by one assumption - that such a breakthrough will take the Japanese squadron by surprise, and it will not be ready for battle. Today, from the reports and orders of the Japanese commanders, we know for sure that there was nothing like this - Sotokichi Uriu feared not only and not so much Russian stationary as the possibility of an approach of additional Russian forces from Port Arthur and was ready for anything.

In other words, it turned out that if the Japanese were not ready to start the war and destroy the Russian ships, then the flight from the raid was completely unnecessary, and would have looked like cowardice, and if the Japanese were ready to fight, it would lead to the death of the Russian ships with a minimum chance of causing damage to the enemy. And yes, most likely, when trying to break through, the Russians would be accused of violating neutrality in the roadstead. It must be said that Commodore Bailey quite unequivocally brought Vsevolod Fyodorovich the position of England in this matter - he considered landing troops as an internal matter of the Japanese and Koreans, which should not be interfered with by the third powers, but was ready to immediately shoot at any ship that violated neutrality on the roadstead.

In this situation, V.F. Rudneva, in essence, had no choice but to wait for the dawn, but he brought the unkind news. The commander of the French cruiser Pascal, Victor-Baptist Senees, arrived in 08.00 on board the Varyag, with a notification from the Japanese admiral about the start of hostilities, which also contained a proposal to foreign ships to leave Chemulpo to 16.00 to avoid misunderstandings. If before the end of this period, "Varyag" and "Korean" do not come out on a breakthrough, S. Uriu assumed to attack and destroy them right in the raid.

The similar decision of the Japanese admiral did not leave V.F. Rudnev other choice, just go into battle.

The cruiser "Varangian". Fight at Chemulpo January 27, 1904. Part 21. Conclusion


Having studied the combat plan drawn up by S. Uriu, we understand that it was completely pointless to stay on the roadstead. In this case, the Japanese were going to enter "Asamu", "Akashi" and "Niytaku" on the fairway, and, stopping a few kilometers from the "Varyag", shoot both Russian ships as exercises. It was all the more simple because the Russian cruiser and gunboat could not maneuver in a narrow roadstead, and at a distance of more than two miles the armor of the “Assam” would remain completely invulnerable for the 152-mm guns of the Varyag and for the eight-inch Korean. At the same time, if Varyag tried to rush to the fairway for rapprochement with the enemy, it was met by a detachment of destroyers accompanying the Japanese cruisers — obviously, it would not be difficult for them to undermine the cruiser, which by that time would have been badly damaged by artillery fire.

But S. Uriu could not get involved in an artillery battle at all, but wait until dark, and then send Chemulpo destroyers to the raid. The statistics of night battles shows that few ships on an alien raid without covering the coastal defense (the absence of stationary searchlights was especially important) and not having the ability to maneuver while moving at least along the middle course would have become easy targets for Japanese mines sailors in the reflection of the mine attacks of the Japanese at Port Arthur, etc. are due to the factors listed above). In other words, by taking a day battle in the roadstead, Varyag lost its ability to maneuver, without gaining anything in return, and there was practically no chance of surviving the night mine attack. Thus, there was absolutely no point in staying on the raid - it was necessary to go out and fight.

The Japanese squadron had a huge advantage in strength, only the "Asama" was stronger than the "Varyag" and "Korean" combined, despite the fact that "Varyag", that with a gunboat, that without it had no advantage in speed. Thus, with some correct actions of the Japanese, a breakthrough into the sea was impossible. Analyzing the actions of V.F. Rudnev in battle, we can assume that, declaring that the cruiser will go for a breakthrough, the commander of the "Varyag" decided not to make "an attempt to break at any cost", but to join the battle and continue to act according to circumstances, having the main goal to go into the open the sea past the Japanese squadron, and if it is impossible to do so, inflict maximum damage to the Japanese.

V.F. Rudnev could not throw in the Chemulpo gunboat "Korean", despite the fact that the latter had the speed of all 13,5 nodes. It was not in the tradition of the Russian fleet to leave comrades in a similar situation, and besides, one should not forget that the two 203-mm guns of the gunboat were, in fact, the only trump card of VF Rudnev, especially since the Korean, in contrast to his cruiser, had already taken part in the battle (Taku forts). It was to be feared that the Japanese could block the exit from the fairway at about. Phalmido (Yodolmi), maneuvering at a slow pace near the island, and in this case, if you could bring the canlarok at a sufficiently close distance, you could hope to inflict considerable damage on the Japanese. Strictly speaking, if in the hands of the Russians there was some kind of means that would give at least a shadow of a chance to force the Japanese to retreat, giving access to the fairway (if they had blocked it), then they were eight-inches of "Korean".

"Varyag" and "Koreyets" left the raid and entered the battle. V.F. Rudnev led his ships at a low speed, which many people blame for him today (they don’t go at such a speed with that speed!), But thanks to that the Varyag commander secured serious tactical advantages. First, he covered himself about. Phalmido (Yodolmi) from the main forces of the Japanese squadron, so that during the first quarter of an hour the fight, in fact, boiled down to the bout of “Assam” and “Varyag”. Secondly, not allowing the fire to focus on their ships, he led the island to “Koreyets”, where his eight-inch began to reach the enemy. And, thirdly, going at low speed, he provided the “most favored mode” to his gunners, because before the Russian-Japanese war, artillery exercises were usually carried out on 9-11 nodes.

Strangely enough, the release of the Russian stationaries took the Japanese by surprise, but in a matter of minutes they broke the anchor and went into battle. According to the plan of the cruiser S. Uriu, having divided into 3 squadron, they were to disperse over the water area towards the Eastern Channel and, thus, create a layered defense against a breakthrough in this direction - while (apparently) u o Phalmido (Yodolmi) will not let Varyag pass to the western channel. However, the small move "Varyag" played a cruel joke with the Japanese - they are too drawn to the Eastern channel, opening the passage to the Western channel, and V.F. Rudnev, apparently tried to take advantage of this. Having traversed the island, he turned to the right - not that this maneuver gave him real chances for a breakthrough, but the Japanese, in order to intercept the Varyag, would have to intercept, shutting and interfering with each other, while some of them ships could only fire from the nose-guns, while the Varyag could respond to them with undamaged guns, which had not participated in the starboard before that time.



However, it was here that an unfortunate incident intervened, crumpling the plans of the Russian commander. We, unfortunately, will never know what exactly happened in reality. According to VF Rudneva, a Japanese projectile broke the pipe where the steering gears were passing, but the Japanese, who had inspected the cruiser during its rise, claimed that the drives were in perfect order. We presented two versions of what is happening. Perhaps the cruiser did get damaged, but not the steering gears, but the steering column installed in the ship's cabin, or a pipe leading from the steering columns to the central post, from where the steering was actually carried out, received such damage. That is, the cruiser lost the ability to be controlled from the wheelhouse, although the steering gears were not damaged - this does not contradict the Japanese data. According to the second version, the steering from the wheelhouse remained intact, but due to a torn shell that killed several sailors and wounded the helmsman and cruiser commander, the Varyag was lost for a short time, while the steering wheel was turned to the right.

Be that as it may, but as a result, regardless of VF. Rudnev, his cruiser, instead of turning right and making a breakthrough towards the Western Canal, turned almost on 180 hail. and went straight to oh. Phalmido (Yodolmi). The revisionist version that this turn was made as a result of a sensible decision of the commander of the Varyag in order to get out of the battle as soon as possible does not hold water. A turn to the right brought Varyag into close proximity to the island. The cruiser went with a relatively low speed, but turned against the current, taking into account the inevitable loss of speed when turning as it was completed, the speed of the ship dropped to 2-4 nodes, while the current carried it to the rocks o. Phalmido (Yodolmi).

In other words, the turn to the right was not enough that it turned the Varyag into a sitting duck, the ship lost its course because of the enemy, making it easier for the Japanese to fire on the cruiser, and also created an emergency situation out of the blue. Such a maneuver was contrary to the basics of the science of navigation and it is inconceivable that the captain of the 1 rank could make such a mistake. Had vf Rudnev was really going to get out of the battle, he would have turned to the left - such a maneuver would not only break the distance from the “Asama” turning toward rapprochement, but also rule out the possibility of landing on the rocks near Fr. Phalmido (Yodolmi). References to the fact that V.F. Rudnev allegedly panicked, completely pointless - when a person succumbs to panic, he runs away from the enemy (turning left) and does not turn in the direction of the enemy cruiser.

As a matter of fact, it was the short-term loss of control of the Varyag cruiser (regardless of the reasons for which caused it) and put an end to the attempt to break through, because at that time the ship was almost without a turn under the concentrated fire of the Japanese cruisers, which caused a strong fire at the stern, and , a large hole at the waterline, through which flooded one of the Varyag stokers. The cruiser received a roll of the order of 10 degrees to the port (although it is difficult to establish at what point it reached the maximum value, but the fact that the ship was tilting, and quickly enough, was, of course, noticeable), and all this was the reason for V.F. . Rudneva go for about. Phalmido (Yodolmi) in order to assess the damage, but they were such that the ship had to interrupt the battle and retreat to the Chemulpo raid. Contrary to popular belief, “Varyag” did not run at all on the 20 raid - its speed was only slightly higher than the speed with which it went on the breakthrough and, apparently, did not even make 17 nodes that it could develop without building.

In essence, we can say that in the first quarter of an hour the cruiser suffered almost no damage (except for the crew members killed and wounded by shrapnel), but then, in the next 15 minutes, from 12.00 to 12.15, Russian time, the ship received almost all he had direct hits in that battle, as a result of which the cruiser was completely incapacitated.

A total of 11 shells got into the hull, pipes and spars of the cruiser, according to other Japanese data - 14, but, according to the author, the first digit is much more realistic. It seems to be not so much - however, we should not forget that getting into strikes is different, and that in the 27 battle of January 1904, Varyag lost more killed and fatally wounded than the crews of Oleg and Aurora together, all the time Tsushima battle. Given the previously described damage and the fact that the cruiser lost 45% of people on the upper deck killed and seriously wounded (and this fact is confirmed, including by an English doctor who assisted the wounded Varyag directly on board the cruiser), the ship is certainly lost combat capability.



Varyag itself spent no more than 160 shells of 152-mm caliber and the 50-75-mm order in combat. Based on the statistics of the effectiveness of the shooting of Russian ships in the battle of Shantung, such an expenditure of shells could provide no more than one hit of a projectile with an 152-mm caliber in Japanese ships. Whether it was achieved or not is a debatable question, since if this hit did not cause any damage (for example, by ricocheting from the Assam armor plate), the Japanese could not have reflected it in the reports. Officially, the Japanese deny the existence of damage to their ships or victims among their crews, and although there is indirect evidence that this is not the case, they are not so significant that you can catch the Japanese historians in a lie.

Decision V.F. Rudnev destroy cruiser was correct. In retrospect, we understand that it was best to blow it up, but the commander of the Varyag had significant reasons not to do this (evacuation of the wounded, the need to divert the cruiser away from hospitals in time pressure, as the arrival of his squadron was expected on the raid, etc.). Given the information available to VF Rudnev, the decision to flood the Varyag can be assessed as correct.

As you know, reports and memoirs V.F. Rudnev on the 27 January January 1904 bout contain many inaccuracies. However, the main ones are quite explicable. Thus, information about the total failure of Varyag’s guns seems to be refuted by the fact that the Japanese subsequently found all 12 152-mm guns available and transferred them to their arsenals, but in fact the damage could have been caused not by the guns themselves, and not combat, but operational, associated with design flaws (problems of lifting arches, and vykraivshayuschiesya teeth of lifting mechanisms) - the Japanese did not indicate such damage. The gun mounts could have minor damage (for example, seizure), which were easily fixed at an artillery plant, but made it impossible to conduct fire in a combat situation.

The high consumption of projectiles (1 105 units) seems to have landed in VF reports. Rudnev from the logbook, where this expense was signed by Lieutenant E. Behrens and is the result of a counting error: the consumption of shells was most likely calculated as the difference between the actual shells in the cellars and their number, and it was impossible to count so - the cruiser spent ammunition on before the arrival in Chemulpo, some of the ammunition was supplied to the upper deck, but not “spent” by the Japanese, etc.

V.F. Rudnev pointed out the ultra-high losses of the Japanese, but stipulated that he was guided by second-hand information in the assessment of the damage to the enemy, which is quite acceptable immediately after the battle (report to the Vicar). As for the later report to the Marine Department Manager, as well as the memoirs of the Varyag commander, at the time of writing there were absolutely no reliable data on Japanese losses - domestic sources were not written (not to mention the publication), while foreign sources cited the most polar points of view, from the complete absence of losses to the death of the Asama. It is not surprising that these conditions V.F. Rudnev just repeated the data of the first report. In addition, one cannot ignore the possibility that, even if he had learned from somewhere precisely about the absence of Japanese casualties, he was simply forbidden to publish updated loss data (as, for example, this happened to Vl. Semenov, who fought on 1 and 2 th Pacific Squadron, which was banned from publishing on the topic of the Tsushima battle until the end of the work of the historical commission).

Much has been said about some agreements between the commanders of the Varyag and the Koreyts in order to embellish the reports on combat, but a comparison of these reports completely refutes this point of view. The fact is that the same (and key ones) events of the 27 battle of January 1904 of V.F. Rudnev and G.P. Belov expounded in very different ways, which is quite understandable by the usual discrepancies in the eyewitness accounts, but which are completely inexplicable if we consider the version of the preliminary agreement between the commanders.

Revisionists argue that V.F. Rudnev deliberately lied in a report on damage to the steering gears, and this was done in order to justify a premature exit from the battlefield. In fact, there is a completely rational explanation that this is not a lie, but an error, and that in fact either the steering column or the data transmission from it to the central post had damage. But even if we assume that VF Rudnev still lied, the most likely reason for his deception, most likely, is not at all the desire to leave the battlefield, but the desire to justify the unsuccessful turn of "Varyag" in Fr. Phalmido (Yodolmi) technical reasons. As we said above, V.F. Rudnev clearly did not plan and did not order this reversal, and if this maneuver was not the result of damage to the rudders, then it could have happened only because of a temporary loss of control when the Varyag commander received a blow to the head with a fragment. However, this reversal led to the creation of an emergency, a loss of speed and the receipt of critical damage, precluding further breakthrough, and V.F. Rudnev could fear the role of the scapegoat for all this.

Here, in fact, that's all.

Concluding our cycle, which almost became infinite, we can state that Vsevolod Fyodorovich Rudnev showed himself to be most worthy as a cruiser commander. Having taken a ship that is technically out of order and does not crawl out of repairs, he made great efforts to prepare his crew "for the march and battle", and if he did not achieve great success in this, it was only because this task had no solution in principle - standing near the wall for repair or during the review of the Steward, the ship is not prepared for war. Arriving in Chemulpo, in the conditions of lack of information, V.F. Rudnev made reasonable and balanced decisions: until the last moment he followed the letter and spirit of the orders he received and did not provoke the Japanese, but when it became known about declaring war, he acted decisively and bravely.

The output of the Varyag and Koreans to the battle with the Japanese squadron consisting of (in fact) six cruisers and three destroyers should be considered a heroic act that glorified the commanders and crews of Russian ships. Actions V.F. Rudnev in battle should be recognized tactically literate. "Varyag" fought to the full exhaustion of opportunities for a breakthrough: we should not be misled by the fact that the ship had exhausted these possibilities in just 30 minutes after the start of the battle and a quarter of an hour after the first shell hit it. This is not the fault of the commander or crew, because the cruiser, who did not have onboard armor and armor protection of artillery, was extremely vulnerable to the effects of high-explosive lead projectiles and could not withstand the shelling for some long time.

Perhaps the feat of "Varyag" hurts someone's eye ... let's say, incompleteness. Indeed, the destroyer “Steregushchy”, the armored cruiser “Rurik”, the battleship of the coastal defense “Admiral Ushakov”, the flagship battleship 2 of the Pacific squadron “Prince Suvorov” fought to the last shell and died in battle, but the “Varyag” did not die. But we must understand that not a single commander will condemn his crew to senseless death, if it is possible to avoid it without prejudice to honor. In other words, Vsevolod Fyodorovich Rudnev had a neutral port where he could retreat after his cruiser lost its combat capability, and the commanders of the other Russian ships listed above did not have such a port at hand.

The commander and crew of the Varyag, without any doubt, accomplished a military feat, and this feat caused a great resonance and admiration in Russia and in the world. He became, if I may say so, the "calling card" of the Russian Imperial Navy during that war - and one can only regret that many other, much brighter deeds of the Russian sailors turned out to be "in the shadow" of the Varangian. After all, there is no doubt that the sailors of the same armored cruiser Rurik had a far more terrible ordeal - they fought for five and a half hours with the superior forces of the enemy without hope of victory, losing only those killed and dead from wounds above 200 people. Nevertheless, there were no mass awards and honors for his crew, and only those who care about the history of the fleet are aware of the feat of “Rurik”, while practically everyone knows about the feat of “Varyag” .

This, of course, is unfair to many undeservedly forgotten heroes of the Russo-Japanese war. But such an injustice cannot serve as an excuse for belittling the valor of the commander and crew of the Varyag - they fully deserve their laurels. In order to restore historical justice, we should not dethrone the feat of “Varyag”, but pay tribute to other heroes of this, unhappy for the Russian weaponsthe war.

This is where our story about the Varyag cruiser and the 27 battle of January 1904 ends. The author expresses his deep respect and gratitude to the readers, whose interest in the subject did not fade away over the course of half a year, during which this cycle was laid out. Separately, I would like to thank everyone who with their comments, questions and argued objections helped to work on these materials and made it more interesting and complete than it could be.

Thank you for attention!



References

1. A.V. Polutov. "The landing operation of the Japanese army and navy in February 1904 in Inchon."
2. Logbook of the cruiser 1 rank "Varyag"
3. Logbook of the seaworthy gunboat Korey
4. V. Kataev. "Korean in the glory of" Varyag ". All about the legendary gunboat. ”
5. V. Kataev "Cruiser" Varyag ". The legend of the Russian fleet.
6. V.Yu. Gribovsky. Russian Pacific Fleet. 1898-1905. History of creation and death.
7. M. Kinai. “The Russo-Japanese War: Official Reports of the Japanese Commanders of the Ground and Naval Forces”.
8. Description of military operations at sea in 37-38 Meiji / Maritime General Headquarters in Tokyo. T.1.
9. The report of the British naval attache on the battle in Chemulpo. Flotomaster 2004-01.
10. R.M. Melnikov. The cruiser "Varyag" (editions 1975 g and 1983 g.).
11. Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905, the first book. The actions of the fleet in the southern theater from the beginning of the war until the interruption of communications with Port Arthur.
12. Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905. Fleet action. Documents. Division III. 1 Pacific squadron. Book One. Actions on the Southern maritime theater of war. 1-1 Release. The period of command of the fleet of Vice Admiral Stark.
13. T. Austin "Cleaning and placement of the wounded in a modern cruise battle (battle of the cruiser" Varyag "). Flotomaster 2004-01.
14. Surgical and medical description of the sea war between Japan and Russia. - Medical Bureau of Maritime department in Tokyo.
15. FA McKenzie «From Tokyo to Tiflis: Uncensored Letters from the War»
16. THE RUSSO-JAPANESE WAR. 1904-1905. Reports from naval attachés.

As well as materials sites http://tsushima.su and http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru and much, much more.
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  1. +7
    26 November 2018 06: 16
    R “P” СѓР ± РѕРєРѕ СѓРІР ° жР° РµРјС ‹Р№ Андрей, Р ± РѕР» СЊС € РѕРµ СЃРїР ° СЃРёР ± Рѕ +!
    And for an excellent cycle, and for the mass of opportunities provided to them to discuss on an interesting topic. With all my heart I wish you not only get a job, but also continue to delight members of the forum with other cycles on the topic of Russian-Japanese.

    A few words on the topic.
    Officially, the Japanese deny the existence of damage to their ships or casualties among their crews, and although there is indirect evidence that this is not so

    Dear colleague, if we are talking about a doctor from the Japanese embassy who came from Seoul to examine some of the wounded, here, after raising the literature, only one perplexing question arises - why?
    Here is the 1st volume of "Medical and Sanitary Issue" from "Top Secret History of the Russo-Japanese War at Sea",

    where casualties are reported after near Port Arthur, and also lists medical personnel on many ships of Togo and Uriu.
    In Polutov, you can find this table (compiled from the materials of the above source),

    from which it follows that the ships of Uriu had enough qualified medical personnel, as well as hospitals, where it was possible to place the wounded by the Varyag shells, the presence of which the American journalist hints at.
    Polutov's book quite naturally does not include medical personnel from the coastal Red Cross hospital located in Chemulpo, however, the corresponding table is available in the above source. It is striking that the staff of the hospital in Chemulpo includes a surgeon who is not on the ships of the Uriu compound.
    And why, in that case, call a therapist from Seoul, if we have so many medical personnel on board only four cruisers, and Polutov has not yet provided data on "Asama", because the source does not contain them.
    Is it possible that the only theoretically possible hit in one of the Japanese ships caused so many casualties among the Japanese sailors that the existing medical personnel lost their feet from five cruisers and one coastal hospital and was so busy that they had to call a civilian doctor to help?

    I believe that the American journalist, by virtue of his professional habit, was looking for a "sensation." Well, of course, the Japanese say that none of their sailors was injured, but I came across a doctor from Seoul who came to examine some of the wounded. By default - Japanese, what else? After all, the Russians are wounded on neutral ships.
    However, it can be assumed that the American messed up the dates, and met a doctor from Seoul later, and not the next day. Then we can assume that this doctor came to examine the Russian wounded, who were placed in the coastal hospital.
    The Japanese wounded, even if they were, more than enough of their own, Japanese doctors.
    1. +3
      26 November 2018 08: 08
      Thank you, dear Valentine!
      Quote: Comrade
      Dear colleague, if we are talking about a doctor from the Japanese embassy who came from Seoul to examine some of the wounded, here, after raising the literature, only one perplexing question arises - why?

      I agree. But, dear colleague, it is still incorrect to consider doctors "over their heads", because experience is very important here, it is possible that the doctor from Seoul was more experienced / qualified than those who were in Chemulpo, therefore he was invited. And the ship's doctors, generally speaking, are strong, they were trained very seriously, but they could hardly leave the ship in wartime and devote themselves to caring for the wounded on land.
      Quote: Comrade
      I believe that the American journalist, by virtue of his professional habit, was looking for a "sensation"

      Everything can be. That's why I write
      Officially, the Japanese deny the existence of damage to their ships or victims among their crews, and although there is indirect evidence that this is not so, they are not so significant that Japanese historians could be caught lying.

      That is, I can’t mention the fact of evidence, but there really are some doubts about the reliability. Up to the point that the American did not understand the Japanese because of the language barrier - he could have incorrectly built the phrase in English. For example, he could have been invited even before the battle, to examine the wounded, if any :)))
      Рнтересно, кстР° ти, С З С‚Рѕ R 'РљР ° тР° ев СѓРїРѕРјРёРЅР ° РµС ‚тол Ѕ РѕСЂС ‹Р№ РІСЃС‚СЂРµС ‡ Р ° Р» СЃСЏ СЃ РјР ° терью РїРѕРіРёР ± С € его РІСЂРё ЧемулЌСРРР ° СРРР ° СРРРРР ° С RµC ‚.
      Actually, I found out about this Mackinsey - after reading Kataev, I began to look for the English original of the book, and now ...
      1. +1
        27 November 2018 02: 54
        Dear Andrew,

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        С‚СѓС ‚РѕС ‡ ень РІР ° жен РѕРїС‹ ‹С‚, РЅРµ РёСЃРєР »СЋС З РµРЅРѕ, С З С‚Рѕ РІСЂР ° С З РёР · Сеул Р ° Р ± еР‹ РѕРІС ‹С‚РЅС‹ Рј / РєРІР ° Р »РёС„ РёС † РёСЂРѕРІР ° РЅРЅС ‹Рј, С З РµРј те, кто Р ± С‹ Р »РІ Чемул СЊРїРѕ, РІРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕР РїСЂРёРіР »Р ° СЃРёР» Рё. Rђ SЃSѓRґRѕRІS <Rμ RІSЂR ° C ‡ Ryo RІRѕRѕR C ± ‰ Rμ RіRѕRІRѕSЂSЏ, SЃRoR "P °, Roes RіRѕS,RѕRІRoR ..." Ryo RѕS ‡ · RμRЅSЊ SЃRμSЂSЊRμR RЅRѕ, RЅRѕ RѕRЅRo RІSЂSЏRґ P "RјRѕRіR Pd 'Pd PI RІRѕRμRЅRЅRѕRμ RІSЂRμRјSЏ RїRѕRєRoRЅSѓS, СЊ РєРѕСЂР ° Р ± Р »СЊ Рё восвятить сеР± СЏ СѓС ... РѕРґСѓ Р · Р ° СЂР ° ненны РјРё РЅР ° СЃСѓС € Рµ

        R§S,RѕR ± C <P ± C <S,SЊ RѕRїS <S,RЅRμRμ RІSЂR ° C ‡ RμR№ SЃ RєSЂRμR№SЃRμSЂRѕRІ RљR ° RјRoRјSѓSЂS <RІSЂR ° C ‡ · Röhr SЏRїRѕRЅSЃRєRѕRіRѕ RїRѕSЃRѕR "SЊSЃS,RІR ° SЃR ° Rј RґRѕR "R¶RμRЅ ± F C <F" P ± C <S,SЊ RІRѕRμRЅRЅS <Rј RІSЂR ° C ‡ RѕRј, RЅRѕ S,RѕR »P ± SЊRєRѕ SЃ RћR" SЊS € RoRј C ‡ RμRј Sѓ RμRіRѕ RєRѕR " P »РµРі, стР° жем.
        РћРґРЅР ° РєРѕ РІ тР° РєРѕРј СЃР »СѓС З Р ° Рµ РІРѕР · РЅРёРєР ° ет РІРѕРїСЂРѕСЃ, Р ° С З СРРС РѕРЅР‚РЃРїРїРїРїРїРїРїРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРєРїРїРїРїРµРєРєРєРєРєР RЎRμSѓR "Rμ, RμSЃR" Ryo RѕRЅ RѕRїS <S,RЅS <R№ RІRѕRμRЅRЅS <R№ RІSЂR ° C ‡, ‡ RїRѕS RμRјSѓ RЅRμ RЅR ° C "P" RѕS,Rμ Röhr "Ryo RЅR ° C" SЂRѕRЅS,Rμ?
        To the hospital of the Japanese "Red Cross" (the chief doctor is an Englishman), the building of which has survived to this day

        this doctor could not be called in any way, because two days later there appeared wounded from the "Varyag", who were brought there by French sailors,

        RєRѕS,RѕSЂS <Rμ, SЃSѓRґSЏ RїRѕ RѕS,SЃSѓS,SЃS,RІRoSЋ SЃRѕRѕS,RІRμS,SЃS,RІSѓSЋS ‰ RμR№ RoRЅS "RѕSЂRјR ° C † RoRo, RЅRoRєR RєRoS ° ... ° SЂR RЅRμRЅS <C ... ... SЏRїRѕRЅSЃRєRoS RјRѕSЂSЏRєRѕRІ, RєRѕS,RѕSЂS <C ... RЅR ° RєR ° RЅSѓRЅRμ S,R Rј RјRѕRі ° C ± F <RѕSЃRјRѕS,SЂRμS,SЊ SЃRμSѓR "SЊSЃRєRoR№ RІSЂR ° C ‡, PI RіRѕSЃRїRoS,R ° F" Rμ RЅRμ RІRoRґRμR "Pd.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Рнтересно, кстР° ти, С З С‚Рѕ R 'РљР ° тР° ев СѓРїРѕРјРёРЅР ° РµС ‚тол Ѕ РѕСЂС ‹Р№ РІСЃС‚СЂРµС ‡ Р ° Р» СЃСЏ СЃ РјР ° терью РїРѕРіРёР ± С € его РІСЂРё ЧемулЌСРРР ° СРРР ° СРРРРР ° С RµC ‚.

        If, after the battle, Chemulpo had killed or wounded Japanese sailors, this would be reflected in the "Top Secret History". However, neither Polutov, who worked with the necessary document, nor anyone else from Tsushima, for example, writes a word about it. I confess that I undertook to read the document, but due to lack of time I only walked to the top. What can you say? The landing of the landing party is detailed, to the smallest detail, but Uriu did not see the lists of wounded or dead crew members of ships. Perhaps they are there, but why did Polutov not say a word about this? So they say and so, guys, according to the reports the Japanese have no losses, but "Medicine" refutes this, here are the names of the victims of the "Varyag" shell.

        Dear colleague,
        RЅРµ успелдоР± Р ° вить РїР ° СЂСѓ СЃР» РѕРІ Рє РїСЂРµРґС ‹РґСѓС ‰ ей С З Р ° сти С † РёРєР» Р °, неЁооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооиЂо Р · десь?

        Крейсер Р »РµРі РЅР ° Р» РµРІС ‹Р№ Р ± РѕСЂС‚ Рё Р · РЅР ° С ‡ ительно Р · Р ° РіР» СѓР ± РёР »СЃСЏ РІ РґРѕРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅР P '. ‚преувел РёС ‡ ением).
        Р 'середине РёСЋР »СЏ ... Рє In« Р'Р ° СЂСЏРіСѓВ »РїРѕРґРІРµР» Рё РїРѕРјРІС ‹, Р · Р ° РґР ° С З РµР№ котоРСРСРСРСРСРСРСРІРСРСРСРС‹ С ‹‹ ‹РІР ° РЅРёРµ пескР° РёР · -РїРѕРґ РєРѕСЂР ° Р ± Р» СЏ, тР° Рє С З С‚РѕР ± С ‹РѕРЅ РѕРїСѓСЃС‚ёР» СЃ СѓРјРµРЅСЊС € ением кренР°

        In the magazine Popular Mechanics for August 1907, the following diagram is given, clearly illustrating how exactly the Varyag plunged into silt.

        Р 'РїРѕРґСЉС'РјРЅС ‹С ... СЂР ° Р ± отР° С ... Р ± С‹ Р »Рѕ Р · Р ° действовР° РЅРѕ, РїРѕРјРёРјРѕ РѕР Р РёС † ероовРР RѕRІ, RїSЏS,SЊSЃRѕS, ... RјRμS ° F RЅRoRєRѕRІ RІRѕRμRЅRЅRѕ RјRѕSЂSЃRєRѕRіRѕ-C "P" RѕS,R Pd ° F · RЅR ° C ‡ RoS,RμR "SЊRЅRѕRμ RєRѕR" ‡ Roes RμSЃS,RІRѕ RєRѕSЂRμR№SЃRєRoS ... SЂR ° F ± RѕS ‡ RyoS ....
        1. 0
          27 November 2018 08: 10
          Quote: Comrade
          To be more experienced than doctors from the Kamimura cruisers, the doctor from the Japanese embassy himself had to be a military doctor

          Dear colleague, you did not hear me :)))) Not more experienced than doctors from warships, but more experienced than doctors from quite a land red cross - cruisers could leave at any time, naturally, taking the doctors with them.
          In the hospital of the Japanese "Red Cross" (the chief doctor is an Englishman), the building of which has survived to this day, this doctor could not be called, because two days later there appeared wounded from the "Varyag"

          Why? :))) How could the Russian wounded prevent the call of a Japanese doctor from Seoul, especially since at that time no one knew at all that they would be there?
          Quote: Comrade
          If, after the battle, Chemulpo had killed or wounded Japanese sailors, this would be reflected in the "Top Secret History".

          Provided that it is completely reliable and has no gaps in the statement, and in the case of Uriu, this is not a fact - the EMNIP, the same Polutov, an order to collect documents for Top Secret came after the battle.
          Quote: Comrade
          In a detailed manner, to the smallest detail, the landing was planned, but Uriu did not see the lists of wounded or dead crew members of the ships.

          One does not refute the other.
          Quote: Comrade
          In the magazine Popular Mechanics for August 1907, the following diagram is given, clearly illustrating how exactly the Varyag plunged into silt.

          Dear Valentine, this scheme is very sketchy and hardly true. As a matter of fact, we can estimate the depth of deepening ourselves. Given the fact that at the site of Varyag’s death, the depth, as I understand it, was somewhere 5 planted (9,15 m) and Varyag was protruding above the water at 4 m, we have a depth of about 3 meters in the widest part (width approx. 16 measures). But if the cruiser still did not rise by 4 meters, but by 4 yards, then a little more.
          1. +1
            28 November 2018 03: 33
            Dear Andrey!
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            РќРµ РѕРІС ‹С‚нее РІСЂР ° С ‡ ей СЃ Р ± оевы С ... РєРѕСЂР ° Р ± Р »РµР№, Р ° РѕРІС‹ тнее РІСЂР ° С З РµР№ РРРРРРРР ·РЅР ·РЫ ... опутного РєСЂР ° СЃРЅРѕРіРѕ крестР°

            Р ”Р °, Р'С‹ РїСЂР ° РІС ‹, тР° РєРѕРµ РІРїРѕР» РЅРµ РјРѕРіР »Рѕ Р ± С‹ ть.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            крейсерР° РјРѕРіР »Рё РІ Р» СЋР ± РѕР№ РјРѕРјРµРЅС ‚уйти, естественно, Р · Р ° Р ± СЂР ° РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ РІ R

            Dear colleague, the wounded "Varangians" were subsequently sent to the Japanese city of Matsuyama for more professional treatment. Together with them, they could send the Japanese wounded sailors, since the cruisers leave together with their doctors.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            РџСЂРё СѓСЃР »РѕРІРёРё С ‡ то РѕРЅР ° совеЀЈенно достовеннР° Рё РЅРµ имииииннннжжжжжжжжжжжжжжж

            Do you admit that the compilers of the "Medical and Sanitary Issue" were instructed to conceal the fact that Japanese sailors were injured from the higher authorities?
            Then the situation is strange. In the coastal hospital are wounded Japanese sailors, they even call a Japanese doctor from the embassy in Seoul to an English doctor for help. And the compilers of the "Top Secret History" in the corresponding issue are silent about this fact.
            РўРѕРіРґР ° СЃСЂР ° Р · Сѓ РІРѕРїСЂРѕСЃ.
            Why RїRѕ RєRѕSЂR ° F ± F "SЏRј, SЃSЂR ° R¶R ° RІS € RoRјSЃSЏ RїRѕRґ RџRѕSЂS,-RђSЂS,SѓSЂRѕRј, RѕRЅRo RґR ° F" Ryo RїRѕRґSЂRѕR ± RЅSѓSЋ SЂR SЃRєR ° "° F RґRєSѓ, SЃ RoRјRμRЅR RјRo ° C" R ° RјRoR "RoSЏRјRo C ‡ RoRЅR RјRo ° C" RѕS,RѕRіSЂR ° C "RoSЏRјRo Ryo RґR ° R¶Rμ SЂRoSЃSѓRЅRєR ° RјRo RѕSЃRєRѕR" RєRѕRІ SЂSѓSЃSЃRєRoS SЃRЅR ° SЂSЏRґRѕRІ ..., P ° SЃR PI "SѓS ‡ ° F Rμ SЃ Чемульво РѕРЅРё просто РїСЂРѕРёРіРЅРѕСЂРёСЂРѕРІР ° Р» Рё СЂР ° РЅРµРЅС ‹С ..., отвСРР РРІРРРРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІРІР Р'едь РґРІР ° Р ± РѕСЏ РїСЂРѕРёР · РѕС € Р »Рё РІ РѕРґРёРЅ Рё тот же день. РќРѕ Р · Р ° С ‡ ем состР° вители это дел Р ° СЋС ‚? РљР ° РєРѕРІ РёС ... мотив?
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            R ° РІ СЃР »СѓС ‡ Р ° Рµ СЃ РЈСЂРёСѓ это неф Р ° РєС ‚- Р • РњРќР Рџ тот же РџРѕР »СѓС‚РѕРІ РґР »СЏ РЎРѕРІРµСЂС € енно секретной РїСЂРёС € ел уже РїРѕСЃР »Рµ Р ± РѕСЏ.

            Dear Andrew,
            РјС ‹РІРµСЂРЅСѓР» РёСЃСЊ Рє стР° СЂРѕР№ теме. P'P ° C RїRѕRєRѕSЂRЅS € <R№ SЃR "SѓRіR ° SѓR¶Rμ RїSЂRoRІRѕRґRoR" RІS <RґRμSЂR¶RєRo Röhr · SЂR ° RїRѕSЂS,RѕRІ SЃ RєRѕSЂR ° F ± F "RμR№, RІS <RґRμSЂR¶R ° RІS € Roes ... Р ± РѕР№ РїРѕРґ РџРѕСЂС‚-Артуром.
            РљР ° Рє же тР° Рє РјРѕРіР »Рѕ РїРѕР» СѓС З РёС‚СЊСЃСЏ, С З С‚Рѕ РїРѕРґ РџРѕСЂС‚-Артуром Рѕ СЂР ° Р · Р ± РёС… С 'RєR "F ° C ° ... RєRѕRјRїR SЃRѕRІ Ryo SЃSЂRμR · ° F RЅRЅS <C ... RіRѕR" RѕRІRєR ° C ... F ± RѕR "S,RѕRІ RЅR ° RїRoSЃR ° F" Ryo ° F Sѓ R§RμRјSѓR "SЊRїRѕ SЃRєSЂS < R »Ryo Р · Р ° метны Рµ повреждения?
            I write noticeable, because from the shell ricocheted from the Asama's armor (as you suggested) there could be no wounded.
            Р ”опустим РЅР ° минЃуту, С З С‚Рѕ СЂР ° нены Рµ РІСЃС 'же Р ± С ‹Р» Рё, РґР ° РІР ° йте РІ тР° РЃРѕ "SѓS Rμ ‡ P °, P · SЂSѓRєRѕRІRѕRґSЃS,RІSѓSЏSЃSЊ RґSЂR ° RІS <Rј SЃRјS <SЃR" RѕRј Ryo P "RѕRіRoRєRѕR№, SЃRјRѕRґRμR" RoSЂSѓRμRј SЃRoS,SѓR ° C † RoSЋ.
            So, on "Asama" damage (damage), there are wounded, they are taken to the shore. There, the chief doctor is an Englishman, he probably communicates with foreign journalists, poses in front of photographers - it is clear that you cannot shut his mouth. But Captain 1st Rank Yashiro Rokuro still decides to hide these facts from the commander of the detachment Rear Admiral Uriu.
            Р С „Р ° РєС‚ РІРѕР ”СѓС З РµРЅРёСЏ повреждений, Рё С„ Р ° РєС ‚отпрР° РІРєРё СЂР ° нены С ... РЅРµ. РќРѕ неужели РЈСЂРёСѓ РЅРµ СѓР · РЅР ° Р» Р ± С ‹, С З С‚Рѕ РІ госпитР° Р» Рµ Р »РµР¶Р ° С‚ СЂР ° РЅРµРЅС ‹Рµ? Р — РЅР ° С З РёС ‚, Р РѕРєСѓСЂРѕ РїСЂРёС € Р» РѕСЃСЊ Р ± С ‹РѕС‚РІРµС З Р ° ть РЅР ° С З Р ° Р» СЊРЅРёРєСѓ РЅР ° РІРѕРЃС ° С‚С ‹РјРЅРµ Р »Р¶С'С € СЊ РІ СЂР ° порте?
            Let's say that it was Uriu who gave the order to hide the fact of damage or injury, and he also ordered not to report anywhere about the wounded from the Asama. But then they will ask him why С‚С ‹РЅР ° Рј R "R_R ° R", SЗ С‚Рѕ РЅРµС ‚воврежддений, Рё РїРѕС З З РµРјСѓ ты РјРѕР »С З Р ° Р» Рѕ СЂР ° РЅРµРЅС ‹С ...? P — P ° C ‡ P ј Pј P С Ђ Р є ° ° Р · ѕ ѕ ѕ ѕ ѕ ° ° »»
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            РќР ° деюсь, Р'С ‹, СѓРІР ° жР° емы Р№ РєРѕР »Р» егР°, РёР · вините меня Р · Р ° РјРЅРѕРіРѕСЃРіР ° РѕР ° РѕРѕР °Р °Р °Р °РѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕР ° Р'С ‹РІРёРґРёС‚Рµ, С З С‚Рѕ определ С'РЅРЅР ° СЏ Р »РѕРіРёРєР ° РІ РјРѕРёС ... Р »РѕР¶РёС‚СЊ РЅРёРєР ° Рє РЅРµ РїРѕР» СѓС ‡ Р ° ется :-)
            Р'РѕР · можно, Р'С ‹СЂР ° Р · веете РјРѕРё СЃРѕРјРЅРµРµРЅРёС Р, Р ° РІРѕР · оожоо, С З С‚Рѕ неконЀаЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀЀР° Р ... СЂР ° СЃСЃСѓР¶РґРµРЅРёСЏС ... есть.

            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            этР° СЃС ... емР° РѕС З РµРЅСЊ СЃС ... емР° С‚РёС З РЅР ° Рё РІСЂСЏРґ Р »Рё вернР°. РЎРѕР ± ственно РіРѕРІРѕСЂСЏ, РіР »СѓР ± РёРЅСѓ Р · Р ° РіР» СѓР ± Р »РµРЅРёСЏ РјС‹ можем РїСЂРёРєРёРЅјѓ ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °ј РЎ СѓС З РµС‚РѕРј того, С З С‚Рѕ РЅР ° месте РіРёР ± ели Р'Р ° СЂС СРіР ° РіР» С »Р ± РёРЅР ° Р ± С ‹Р» Р °, РєР ° Р ° RІРѕРЅРёРјР ° СЋ, РіРґРµ-то 5 СЃР ° жен (9,15 Рј) Р ° Р'Р ° СЂСЏРі РІС ‹СЃС‚СѓРІР ° Р» РЅР ° Рґ РІРѕРґРѕР№ РЅР ° X

            Dear Andrew,
            you are probably right, I never thought about how deep there was. However, here are three pictures, on the first "Varyag" is generally hidden under water, and on the third it appears as much as possible on the pictures I know.


            1. 0
              29 November 2018 13: 15
              Quote: Comrade
              So, on "Asama" damage (damage), there are wounded, they are taken to the shore. There, the chief doctor is an Englishman, he probably communicates with foreign journalists, poses in front of photographers - it is clear that you cannot shut his mouth. But Captain 1st Rank Yashiro Rokuro still decides to hide these facts from the commander of the detachment Rear Admiral Uriu.
              Both the fact of damage and the fact of sending the wounded ashore. But would Uriu really not know that the wounded were in the hospital? So, Rokuro would have to answer the boss the question, why are you lying to me in the report?
              Let's say that it was Uriu who gave the order to hide the fact of damage or injury, and he also ordered not to report anywhere about the wounded from the Asama. But then they will ask him, why did you lie to us, that there is no damage, and why did you keep silent about the wounded? Why did you give the order to lie?


              Sorry - only in terms of theoretical fabrications - there may be wounded on the ship, but no damage, for example, in the case of a close shell burst in the water.
              This was often observed in WWII - for example, during the bombing of ships by aircraft - in the absence of direct hits, injuries to the crew on deck - were inflicted.
              The bomb explodes already plunged into the water - therefore, below the waterline, the fragments do not cause damage, quickly losing destructive power, and the cone of fragments from the water goes upward with a rather narrow fan, which is quite enough to hit the crew uncovered on the deck.
            2. 0
              30 November 2018 11: 33
              Greetings, dear Valentine!
              You can’t get off with a short comment :)))))
              Do you admit that the compilers of the "Medical and Sanitary Issue" were instructed to conceal the fact that Japanese sailors were injured from the higher authorities?
              Then the situation is strange.

              Yes, not really :)))) That is, the situation would be completely implausible, if not for the second story of McKinsey
              He writes, an absolutely impossible thing - that no one died on the ships, but the Japanese died on some ship, on some boat that was supposed to keep track of Russian ships.
              "Ah," my friend answered. “This is so. There were no casualties on the warships, but some Russian shells hit Japanese ships nearby in order to track the movement of the Varyag.

              So, answering your question
              Quote: Comrade
              But why do the compilers do this? What is their motive?

              If we assume that McKinsey is not lying and not mistaken, then such a scheme could work only under one condition - that the killed (of course - before his death, which can be done retroactively) was somehow demobilized from a cruiser or destroyer and sent to as a civilian sailor on some of the transports, only in this way he could with good reason "fly" past both the Surgical Report and the Japanese reports - they took into account the losses of servicemen, not civilians. There is simply no other option, otherwise the McKinsey story will fall apart like a house of cards.
              But if the Japanese did so, then this perfectly explains the absence of the dead in both the reports and the surgical description. But why ...
              Quote: Comrade
              РљР ° Рє же тР° Рє РјРѕРіР »Рѕ РїРѕР» СѓС З РёС‚СЊСЃСЏ, С З С‚Рѕ РїРѕРґ РџРѕСЂС‚-Артуром Рѕ СЂР ° Р · Р ± РёС… С 'RєR "F ° C ° ... RєRѕRјRїR SЃRѕRІ Ryo SЃSЂRμR · ° F RЅRЅS <C ... RіRѕR" RѕRІRєR ° C ... F ± RѕR "S,RѕRІ RЅR ° RїRoSЃR ° F" Ryo ° F Sѓ R§RμRјSѓR "SЊRїRѕ SЃRєSЂS < R »Ryo Р · Р ° метны Рµ повреждения?
              I write noticeable, because from the shell ricocheted from the Asama's armor (as you suggested) there could be no wounded.

              Well, strictly speaking, not a single Russian shell hit Asama on July 28, but the commander was still concussed. And this, generally speaking, is not uncommon - if you look at the same "surgery" in the section of the battle on July 28, there are those who have thundered into the hospital despite the absence of hits. Concussion, from a projectile flying past, or some kind of projectile miraculously exploded on the water and hit with a shrapnel.
              Quote: Comrade
              I hope you, dear colleague, excuse me for verbosity, I believe you see that there is a certain logic in my reasoning

              Without any doubt!
  2. +7
    26 November 2018 06: 17
    Thanks to the author for a truly titanic work.
    No matter what happened in those days, it’s not for us to judge the commander who was left alone with circumstances that were stronger. Moreover, to judge through the prism of afterlife and mentality of the 21st century.
    1. +1
      26 November 2018 08: 14
      Quote: Moore
      Thanks to the author for a truly titanic work.

      And thank you for your kind words!
  3. +3
    26 November 2018 07: 13
    Dear Andrey, many thanks for the wonderful series of articles, I read everything with pleasure.
    One wish, do you also want to write about the battle in the Korean Strait and the death of "Rurik"?
    1. +7
      26 November 2018 08: 10
      Quote: Sergey Sadchikov
      Dear Andrey, many thanks for the wonderful series of articles, I read everything with pleasure.

      And thank you!
      Quote: Sergey Sadchikov
      One wish, do you also want to write about the battle in the Korean Strait and the death of "Rurik"?

      I want :))) And someday I’ll surely write, but later. In the meantime ... this week comes the first article of a new cycle on the subject of ships of the RPE. It will not be too long, but still :))))
      1. +1
        26 November 2018 18: 01
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        I want :))) And someday I’ll surely write, but later. In the meantime ... this week comes the first article of a new cycle on the subject of ships of the RPE. It will not be too long, but still :)))

        good fellow drinks
        1. +1
          27 November 2018 14: 59
          Thanks for the work !!! I look forward to new articles! hi
      2. 0
        30 November 2018 10: 07
        This week, the first article of a new cycle on the topic of ships of the REV is published.

        Where? angry
  4. +1
    26 November 2018 08: 24
    Thank! Although he knew a lot, he still read it, with great pleasure.
  5. +2
    26 November 2018 08: 40
    Thanks for another great article series. I hope that someday I will see your analysis of the battle of August 1 (14), 1904.
  6. BAI
    +6
    26 November 2018 09: 35
    It seems to me that the article should have ended with the return of the Varyag jack to Russia.
  7. +5
    26 November 2018 09: 59
    Brilliantly. I applaud while standing.
    Truly outstanding and titanic work, I am not afraid of the word. We can only wish the author further fruitful work in this field, since the theme of the Russian fleet is inexhaustible.
    1. 0
      26 November 2018 10: 04
      Quote: kvs207
      We can only wish the author further fruitful work in this field, since the theme of the Russian fleet is inexhaustible.

      Thank:))) hi
  8. lot
    +1
    26 November 2018 11: 24
    The entry of the Varyag and the Korean into battle with the Japanese squadron consisting of (in fact) six cruisers and three destroyers should be considered a heroic deed that glorified the commanders and crews of Russian ships.

    my father, the commander of the ship, retired, believes the crew should have been preserved, the ship exploded. and so, yes, the feat turned out.
  9. +2
    26 November 2018 11: 42
    The series of articles is wonderful, although there are differences of opinion with Dear Andrey on some issues. From a technical point of view, the articles during the discussions revealed many small facts and details on which the opinions of the participants differ. Basically pull the cycle to a monograph))
    PS We are waiting for something else global, both from Andrei and from comrades who, during the discussions, brought a lot of clarity to certain issues.
    PSS The topic of the armored fleet and the PMV fleet is very poorly covered, although almost every ship has monographs hi
  10. +1
    26 November 2018 12: 19
    I would note that the feat of the Varyag became so famous largely due to the presence of foreign observers.
    At the same time, it should be noted that the actions of Rudnev (this is noted in the cycle) allowed to prevent accusations of Russia in starting a war. And, IMHO, this is the main feat of Rudnev, which is not so obvious, but probably more significant. Indeed, sometimes moral victories play an important role in wars.
    The battle of Varyag and the night attack on Port Arthur allowed to incline public opinion to the side of Russia, which subsequently facilitated (a little) the campaign of the 2nd Pacific Squadron.
    Were it not for Varyag, IMHO, the campaign of the 2nd Pacific Squadron would be a big question, because and so the squadron had big problems with calling at ports and replenishing supplies.
    Moreover, these episodes forced the British to observe at least some decency of neutrality. It is possible that it was originally planned that, having succumbed to provocations, the Russian fleet would be the first to start firing, and this, in turn, would give European countries a reason to arrange a Russian bike and legally supply Japan with supplies and prevent the Russian army from being supplied by sea to the Far East.
    1. +3
      26 November 2018 12: 36
      Britain and so openly supplied the Japanese. The French, grinding their teeth, were forced to supply 2TOE since an agreement was concluded with Russia. The Germans, on the contrary, did not care about the opinions of the whole world, supplied 2TOE as intensively as they could, since their task was to draw up the fleet from the Baltic !!! If Russia wanted to include the Black Sea ships, the Turks would release them in spite of all the agreements in order to remove the World Cup fleet, especially under certain conditions, the transfer of ships was possible. The attack on Arthur took place earlier than the battle in Chemulpo (so it should be noted that the actions of Rudnev (this is noted in the cycle) allowed Russia to not be accused of starting a war.) It does not influence international opinion and the charges are automatically dropped. The Russian army by sea was not supplied from the word at all
      1. +2
        26 November 2018 14: 27
        Think of Russia to include the Black Sea ships so the Turks would release them regardless of all agreements in order to remove the World Cup fleet

        firstly debatable.
        secondly, there were exactly two more or less modern ships in the Black Sea Fleet at that moment. "Three Saints" and "George the Victorious". (others in completion) God knows what reinforcement to risk violating international treaties.
        The Russian army by sea was not supplied from the word at all

        Strictly speaking, not so. Ginzburg still sent several steamers with food to Arthur (but this is not a refutation, but a clarification)
      2. +1
        26 November 2018 14: 54
        So the French would have shut off the supply.
        The difference between the attack on Port Arthur and the Ultimatum to Rudnev was a few hours apart. Given the information blockade, no one knew about the start of hostilities. Therefore, if foreign hospitals described that the Russians attacked "peaceful" Japanese for no reason, the attack on Port Arthur would be forgotten.
        It was supplied, but not enough because of the sea blockade. And so they would have received a blockade in Europe.
  11. +3
    26 November 2018 12: 43
    A good cycle, although there are much more discussion questions and free assumptions than the author usually has in articles.
    and the conclusion is so big that it has not yet been mastered laughing
    in fact, C. Crump did not present any cruiser project at all

    R'RѕRѕR C ± ‰ Rμ-S,Rѕ RљSЂR ° RјRї RїSЂRoS € RμR "SЃ RіRѕS,RѕRІS <Rј RїSЂRѕRμRєS,RѕRј SѓR¶Rμ ° F ± RїSЂRѕR RoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRЅRѕRіRѕ PI SЃS,SЂRѕRoS,RμR" SЊSЃS,RІRμ RєSЂRμR№SЃRμSЂR °.
    But in Russia they wanted him to build according to another project, the project of Diana, approved by all authorities.
    With improved features and changes that were to be agreed upon during construction, as with others with whom the contract was concluded.
    All performance improvements were stipulated in the contract, for non-performance - large fines. Kramp fulfilled the contract.
    1. +3
      26 November 2018 14: 59
      Quote: Avior
      R'RѕRѕR C ± ‰ Rμ-S,Rѕ RљSЂR ° RјRї RїSЂRoS € RμR "SЃ RіRѕS,RѕRІS <Rј RїSЂRѕRμRєS,RѕRј SѓR¶Rμ ° F ± RїSЂRѕR RoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRЅRѕRіRѕ PI SЃS,SЂRѕRoS,RμR" SЊSЃS,RІRμ RєSЂRμR№SЃRμSЂR °.

      RљRѕS,RѕSЂS <R№ RЅRμ SЃRѕRѕS,RІRμS,SЃS,RІRѕRІR ° F "S,SЂRμR ° ± RѕRІR RЅRoSЏRј RєRѕRЅRєSѓSЂSЃR Ryo RїRѕS,RѕRјSѓ RЅRμ ° F ± RјRѕRі C <S,SЊ RїSЂRoRЅSЏS,
      Quote: Avior
      But in Russia they wanted him to build according to another project, the project of Diana, approved by all authorities.

      Sergey, this is not so, please re-read the first part everything is written there :))))) Nobody wanted any Diana, the TFE was formulated with the Diana - nothing in common, they were waiting for projects, they did not receive from Kramp, he signed a contract without a project. In fact, when Kramp nevertheless presented the project, it was rated very low compared to others, but the contract was already concluded
      Quote: Avior
      All performance improvements were stipulated in the contract, for non-performance - large fines. Kramp fulfilled the contract.

      Given that in the contract, apart from the most general performance characteristics, there was nothing - I would not have completed it yet. Only now, in contrast to German companies, he performed absolutely ugly
      1. 0
        26 November 2018 15: 20
        RљRѕS,RѕSЂS <R№ RЅRμ SЃRѕRѕS,RІRμS,SЃS,RІRѕRІR ° F "S,SЂRμR ° ± RѕRІR RЅRoSЏRј RєRѕRЅRєSѓSЂSЃR Ryo RїRѕS,RѕRјSѓ RЅRμ ° F ± RјRѕRі C <S,SЊ RїSЂRoRЅSЏS,

        The offer was before the competition.
        Sergey, this is not so.

        and nevertheless, it was Diana who made the reservation as the basis of the project.
        it was rated very low compared to others

        Who appreciated it? and what was there in the project that he was worse than Askold, for example? Askold had his own shortcomings, and the Athlete had his own.
        In fact, all the claims are not for the project, but for the real work of the machine and boilers.
        when the cruiser came to Russia, everyone was enthusiastic; I quoted a part of the cycle, including specialists.
        Given that in the contract, apart from the most general performance characteristics, there was nothing - I would not have completed it yet.

        What else was supposed to be there?
        They demanded to take Diana as a basis and make it much faster in time, faster in speed, better armed and cheaper, which Kramp did.
        And claims for the quality of work are to the one who accepted.
        Do you know the opinion of sailors about German cruisers and "goddesses"? Read Dobrotvorsky.
        The very idea of ​​a large reconnaissance cruiser was vicious, what they wrote then and now they are writing.
        When the Varangian arrived in the Far East, the naval leadership directly curled about this - this is with Melnikov.
        From this point of view, the initial proposal by Crump was much better.
      2. +2
        27 November 2018 06: 23
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: Avior
        R'RѕRѕR C ± ‰ Rμ-S,Rѕ RљSЂR ° RјRї RїSЂRoS € RμR "SЃ RіRѕS,RѕRІS <Rј RїSЂRѕRμRєS,RѕRј SѓR¶Rμ ° F ± RїSЂRѕR RoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRЅRѕRіRѕ PI SЃS,SЂRѕRoS,RμR" SЊSЃS,RІRμ RєSЂRμR№SЃRμSЂR °.

        RљRѕS,RѕSЂS <R№ RЅRμ SЃRѕRѕS,RІRμS,SЃS,RІRѕRІR ° F "S,SЂRμR ° ± RѕRІR RЅRoSЏRј RєRѕRЅRєSѓSЂSЃR Ryo RїRѕS,RѕRјSѓ RЅRμ ° F ± RјRѕRі C <S,SЊ RїSЂRoRЅSЏS,

        Dear Andrew,
        Sorry to interfere, but did the "Tsarevich" project meet the requirements of the ITC? It was said to use "Peresvet" as a prototype. Lagagne didn't give a damn about the requirement and used "Jauréguiberry" as a prototype. And nothing, the project was accepted with a bang.
        So Varyag is no exception.
        1. +2
          27 November 2018 08: 20
          Quote: Comrade
          Sorry to interfere, but did the "Tsarevich" project meet the requirements of the ITC? It was said to use "Peresvet" as a prototype. Lagagne didn't give a damn about the requirement and used "Jauréguiberry" as a prototype

          Dear colleague, I believe that you are wrong in this matter. The fact is that the TTE for the development of a new battleship did not leave a stone unturned from the Peresvet project (305-mm guns instead of 254 mm, two vehicles instead of three) and it is no longer possible to talk about Peresvet as a prototype. Rather, it was about the fact that the new battleships should have remained in the dimensions of the "Peresvet" (displacement), but Lagan did it with minimal deviation, everything is fine here
          Quote: Comrade
          And nothing, the project was accepted with a bang.

          Because it was a project that corresponded to the specified TFE. Kramp, who initially brought in the Kasagi project, did not have such a project, because Kasagi did not satisfy the requirements of the competition
          1. 0
            28 November 2018 04: 35
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Dear colleague, I believe that you are wrong in this matter. The fact is that the TFE for the development of a new armadillo did not leave stone upon stone from the Peresvet project (305-mm guns instead of 254 mm, two cars instead of three) and it is no longer possible to talk about Peresvet as a prototype.

            Dear Andrew,
            unlike R. M. Melnikov, I could not hold the original documents in my hands, so I’ll just hide behind his broad back.

            As you can see, in the letter of the General Staff School the Peresvet is definitely named with an increase in the main caliber and a decrease in the number of vehicles from three to two.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Because it was a project that corresponded to the specified TFE.

            When Crump offers as a prototype tower battleship "Iowa", he is refused (as R. M. Melnikov writes, referring to archival documents, the American was offered as a prototype "Peresvet" with appropriate changes).
            And when Lagan proposed as a prototype tower battleship "Jauréguiberry", they did not poke its nose in "Peresvet", and the proposed prototype was "eaten".
            RџRѕS ‡ RμRјSѓ, RЅR ° S,Rѕ RμSЃS,SЊ RјRЅRѕRіRѕ RІRμSЂSЃRoR№ (RІRєR "SЋS ‡ ° F SЏ RЅRμRѕS" Roes Röhr ° † P "SЊRЅSѓSЋ RґRѕSЂRμRІRѕR" † SЋS RoRѕRЅRЅSѓSЋ) PI C. WITH‡. Ryo РјРѕСЏ СЃРѕР ± ственнР° СЏ.
            By the way, as for me, the American prototype is better, because, according to statistics, the 8 "guns at the Russian-Japanese were fired more accurately than the 6". Accordingly, when firing aboard, four 8 '' guns are preferable to six 6. ''
            1. 0
              28 November 2018 07: 04
              Greetings, dear colleague!
              Quote: Comrade
              unlike R. M. Melnikov, I could not hold the original documents in my hands, so I’ll just hide behind his broad back.

              So it will not work :)))))
              Quote: Comrade
              As you can see, in the letter of the General Staff School the Peresvet is definitely named with an increase in the main caliber and a decrease in the number of vehicles from three to two.

              Nope :)))) It says: "Drawing of a new battleship, suitable in type and size"
              Not "of the same type", but just "suitable in type". As for Iowa, it did not fit at all, and the problem there was not at all in the towers - the battleship was slow-moving (16 knots) and had a small supply of coal (normal - 625 tons), which was the reason for refusing to use it as a prototype - Balakin writes about this.
              Quote: Comrade
              By the way, as for me, the American prototype is better

              I don’t think American is better, but 203-mm is definitely better :)))))
  12. +4
    26 November 2018 14: 30
    So it all ends sometime ... recourse
    There was a good cycle, dear colleague!
    1. 0
      26 November 2018 14: 59
      Thank you, dear Ivan!
  13. +2
    26 November 2018 15: 13
    Congratulations, dear colleague, on the completion of your excellent Varyag cycle. If you reduce all its content to a minimum, then, probably, it will be possible to characterize the entire history of the cruiser as "We wanted the best, it turned out as always", both in terms of construction and in combat hi Who knew that it would all turn out so badly ...
  14. +4
    26 November 2018 16: 03
    Dear Andrey. You did a great job creating this interesting cycle, thank you very much. What I can not agree on is the assessment of the Nikloss system boilers. All the same, I am inclined to the version of poor preparation of the team.

    " Personnel - The boilers of the battleship Maine are a good example for use on ships, but keeping them in order will require the services of people trained and skilled in the handling of machinery. "The SECRETARY OF THE NAVY. 1903.
    1. +1
      27 November 2018 07: 55
      Greetings, dear Igor!
      Quote: 27091965i
      You did a great job creating this interesting cycle, thank you very much

      Thank you very much for your comments, I always read them with great pleasure and very often learned a lot of new things! hi I sincerely hope that you will look into my subsequent articles drinks
      Quote: 27091965i
      What I can not agree on is the assessment of the Nikloss system boilers. All the same, I am inclined to the version of poor preparation of the team.

      Maybe you are right. The only strange thing is that the USA itself was able to sufficiently prepare for the operation of Nikloss's boilers the entire 2 team - on the 2 ship. And for the remaining five ships with boilers of the same design, competent machine teams could not be prepared, which is why the Americans were forced to change the boilers to inept stokers :))))))
      Sorry, I could not resist a little joke :))))))) hi drinks
  15. +2
    26 November 2018 18: 30
    Thanks to the author for the cycle! A lot of material has been collected, its presentation is reasonably balanced, although it is not without drawbacks. I hope the author systematizes the material in the book - I would buy ...
    It is a pity that the author does not see some contradictions in his assessments and factology:
    "he could not attack Japanese transports for the above reasons, and he could not leave the raid, as he was at gunpoint of Japanese destroyers, which could sink Russian ships immediately, or escort them to the exit from international waters in order to immediately destroy them"
    "Oddly enough, the release of Russian stationary devices took the Japanese by surprise" bully
    I'd add from myself - at these latitudes the nights are generally dark, and even in winter .... request
  16. +5
    26 November 2018 21: 16
    Greetings, dear Andrew hi
    I wanted to unsubscribe in the morning, but in the morning there is not enough time - getting ready for work (and at work there is a "Santa Barbara" going on Yes ), viewing the weather, so in the morning I put a well-deserved "like" (the third in a row - the first, probably, Comrade slapped drinks )
    For the cycle as a whole, a well-deserved "bravo"! good (We have already discussed more than once that you need to release an author’s book on naval historical topics Yes - I would buy it if she would appear in Bulbyandii smile ) Although he is solely your opinion (I hope you will not deny this feel )
    It was as if I promised to tell my version of the battle at Chemulpo ... I had a chance to read a number of different opinions about this event. Honestly, your version is only one of these opinions without the right to exclusivity. Like it or not, people are looking at the same event from their bell tower. The only difference is that some stupidly stand on their opinion, while others can, in the course of the appearance of new versions and evidence, summarize the accumulated knowledge and come to some kind of vision. It may be right, but maybe not. Let it be both on their conscience, and on mine ... All the same, we are all human beings and it is peculiar to everyone to be mistaken in their own way.
    The history of the battle at Chemulpo begins on April 11, 1898, when, in my opinion, a criminal contract with Ch. Kramp was signed. It was the conditions and reservations of which served as the muddy water in which the representatives of the future "exclusive" nation were catching their profitable fish. Yes, I absolutely (already exactly) agree with you that it is the disgusting build quality of the Varyag's CMU that serves as a kind of basis for the Varyag's feat (rather, the cruiser crew)
    I fully agree with all your conclusions in the cycle before Chemulpo. I believe that the Varyag was sent to a quiet stationary service in Chemulpo due to low technical readiness and low combat readiness of the crew associated with repairs (I will not argue, Rudnev could have tried to improve the quality of gunnery training if possible, but it was lower than the general combat readiness of the Arthur squadron) ... In order not to finally finish off the ship, they additionally gave the Koreyets. So they turned out to be lame together due to disgustingly assembled and unregulated machines with dubious quality boilers, capable of really, without much harm to themselves, giving speed only somewhere in the region of 16 knots and a gunboat with its passport 13,5 knots (although, in reality, the knot - one and a half can be thrown off due to age) ...
    1. +3
      26 November 2018 21: 43
      ... I also agree with you that Rudnev found himself practically in a trap by circumstances, from which there was no acceptable way out. As the hero of one science fiction film said, "I twisted my brains how to find a way out, but in all the solutions to this problem, the result is the same - death ..." , Rudnev had to find such a way out, which would be the maximum number of moral, tactical, diplomatic conditions for solving the problem. What we see
      January 27 in the morning at 7 o’clock. For 30 minutes, the commanders of foreign ships: the English cruiser Talbot, the French Paskal, the Italian Elba and the American Vicksburg received a notification (indicating the time of delivery of the notification) from the Japanese admiral that the war was declared and that the admiral invited the Russian ships to leave of the raid before 12 noon, otherwise they will be attacked by the entire squadron on the raid after 4 o’clock in the afternoon, and it was suggested that foreign ships leave the raid at this time for their safety. This information was delivered to me by the commander of the French cruiser Pascal, with whom I went to the meeting of the commanders. During a meeting of commanders for the Talbot cruiser, I received a letter (at 9 a.m.) through the Russian consul from the Japanese admiral, announcing the start of hostilities, with a proposal to leave the raid before 30 o’clock. of the day. The commanders decided that if I stayed in the raid, they would leave, leaving me with the Korean and the Sungari steamer

      Rudnev decided
      Returning to the cruiser, I gathered the officers and announced to them the start of hostilities, with which it was decided to break through, and in case of failure, to blow up the cruiser; for which they subsequently prepared a firing cartridge with a Bickford cord in a mine cellar. The explosion was entrusted to the inspector by midshipman Chernilovsky-Sokol.

      As you can see, Rudnev clearly pointed out his plan of action. This, by the way, suggests that yes, V.F. Rudnev was not a coward. I do not argue with that ...
      1. +4
        26 November 2018 22: 02
        ... There is a lot of talk about the fact that "Varyag" and "Koreets" went together because of a sense of mutual assistance. It seems to me that Rudnev, knowing that his ship was not capable of providing the speed that would allow him to impose his own conditions, accepted the option to go along with the Koreyets. For the battle on the raid meant a banal rattle, and even with an international scandal, because anastranny stationers were in danger.
        there was little hope that the Japanese would release from the skerries and give battle in the sea; the latter was preferable, since in skerries one has to follow a certain course and therefore, substituting the board at a disadvantage, one cannot use all means of protection.

        This, in my opinion, is Rudnev's key hope. It lies in the general tendency of the top leadership of the Republic of Ingushetia to underestimate the enemy. Rudnev banally assumed that the Japanese could, for whatever reason, after, say, a small skirmish, release his ships (maybe he hoped that the landing was more important than any two Russian ships. And there, you can split up, or confuse the Japanese, or hope for something else and break through. That is why Rudnev wrote in the report about the breakthrough. This is the kind of breakthrough he had in mind. That is why he left with the gunboat, adjusting to its capabilities. Yes, I agree with you - in this In this case, the low speed was to some extent and beneficial for the Russians accustomed to such shooting conditions. Plus, Rudnev could use, albeit relatively outdated, but 203 mm guns of the Koreyets. But I already wrote that for For this, certain conditions should have developed - perhaps the Japanese would banally block the fairway, or take a disadvantageous position, which would allow the Koreyets to come closer and make the most of its firepower.
        Much had to be formed in order for Rudnev’s venture to succeed, but it was precisely this much that went wrong right away ...
        1. +5
          26 November 2018 22: 49
          ... The Japanese decided to immediately disagree with Rudnev's assumptions and settled in echelon, assuming that the Varyag was using its passport superiority in speed. Then he will be under fire for the maximum time. Therefore, they were unspeakably surprised by the cruiser with a gunboat going at a speed of 12-13 knots. Having developed 15 knots, Asama already had the upper hand and Rudnev realized that he would not be allowed to pass. I also agree that perhaps he decided to try to pass under the stern of the Japanese, turning to the right. But accidental hit with loss of steering and concussion. Then Rudnev realized that he had lost. The Japanese were serious and refused to match the opinion of the Russians about themselves.
          In fact, going in tandem with the "Koreyets" because of the technical problems of his ship, Rudnev went into battle. Seeing what the Japanese did with the ship in less than an hour of battle and seeing that his assumptions were not justified, Rudnev turned back. And you are right, you shouldn't blame Rudnev for cowardice and flight, all the more for refusing to continue the battle. The Russians really accomplished a feat in this regard. What happened next is another matter.
          And then what happened today raises questions - Rudnev's report. Yes, he still wrote in hot pursuit. There has not been a feat in the media. Therefore, Rudnev, along with descriptions of his actions (by the way, in theory, is relatively good, given the technical condition of the ship and hypothetically take into account the actions of the Japanese that Rudnev needed to make a breakthrough), and added the actions and assumptions of foreigners. But it was the exit to the battle described in foreign mass media that became a lifeline! And since the officials from the top of the Maritime Ministry who had taken the deliberately defective ship to the treasury and even drove the admirals on the ground, even defective, but still a foreign-built cruiser, felt guilty, it’s better to take advantage of the minuses, even if they are propaganda. So, in fact, Rudnev became a hostage to fame and the assumptions described in the report were closed, the breakthrough was quoted everywhere, although it would become a breakthrough taking into account many factors that did not take place. Because Rudnev went to battle, having a breakthrough only in hope and dreams ...
          But from a moral point of view, I blame Rudnev not for the fact that he could have forgotten some details in the form of an incorrectly indicated projectile consumption (we’ve already figured out that), and not for attributing much of the unverified, but that he I took advantage of the fruits of unexpected salvation and did not at least refute the speculation in the form of the deceased Yashiro Rokuro ... It is ugly, no matter how hero you are ... No.
  17. -3
    27 November 2018 00: 19
    Finally, this protracted cycle has ended. Despite a very interesting topic, such a long discussion was pretty tired. The reason for this is the open bias of the author, who initially did not hide his sympathies for Rudnev. Unfortunately, the author did not limit himself to expressing a personal opinion about Rudnev, all the facts and materials were selected based on this sympathy of Andrei. It is clear that with this approach, objectivity is not necessary. This forced me to constantly remind the author of facts that did not fit into the framework of his version.

    Since I’ve reached the results, let me remind you of the author’s theses, which I agree with which is completely impossible.

    The first thesis about the allegedly very poor technical condition of the cruiser: The author spent a lot of words on the description of various problems. Indeed, customers were confronted with surprises in the form of the high complexity of the maintenance of the ship and a very low repair resource. For example, the same bearings had to be replaced almost every 3-4 months. But at the same time it is impossible to notice that these problems are purely operational in nature. By the time of the battle, the ship was fully operational. There are no facts or documents indicating problems making it impossible for the cruiser to repeat the results shown by him on the latest tests. And this is 21.8 knots minimum with normal displacement. For a hundred years now, it’s called either 14 then 16 then 17 knots maximum just fiction. Perhaps Rudnev.

    The second erroneous thesis about the allegedly hopeless situation of the ship: Many readers apparently imagine that the Varyagu will pop out of the fairway as all Japanese ships immediately rush to it in the clinch, like kamikaze. Nothing of the kind for the 1904 model was noticed. The Japanese fought very carefully, always maintaining a safe distance, never forgetting that a clinch battle would guarantee serious mutual damage to both opponents. For the Japanese, this was unacceptable. Finally, one can recall Askold, Oleg, Aurora who were in equally difficult situations. Even worse in terms of both enemies and battle time. In Varyag, on the contrary, the advantage is that the enemy was very limited in the ability to maneuver his compound. There is no reason to consider the position of the cruiser as hopeless as the author is trying to show us.

    Well, the third thesis about an alleged accidental defeat: I do not want to re-raise all the details, but any normal person will understand - it is impossible to go into a breakthrough at a speed of 7 knots. This fact alone is enough. Rudnev was forced to demonstrate determination under the pressure of his officers, but he was ready to turn and destroy his ship while still anchoring. Rudnev himself set his cruiser at minimum speed under the Asama longitudinal fire and immediately took flight. Even after this, the ability of the cruiser to resist the enemy was not completely exhausted, but the commander ordered the destruction of the ship after consulting with the British but ignoring the opinion of half of the ship’s officers. Of the 21 ship officers under the shameful act of destruction, we see only 10 signatures. It is unfortunate that on this day his senior officer Stepanov V.V. did not appear on the bridge of Varyag Varyag had many real, lively options to win this battle or at least inflict really serious damage on the enemy.
    1. +5
      27 November 2018 09: 02
      There are no facts or documents indicating problems making it impossible for the cruiser to repeat the results shown by him on the latest tests. And these are 21.8 nodes

      Are you tired of lying? The trials that you are talking so hard about took place on October 16 and were far from the last.
      On October 16, informing Zolotaya Gora that the Sivuch gunboat remains the eldest in the raid, the Varangian again anchored. Nearly twelve o'clock furrowed the cruiser coastal waters, counting by lag 157 miles. The highest speed at pressures up to 14-15 atm. reached 140 rpm, the speed in this case, due to overload, apparently did not exceed 20,5 knots.

      А latest took place almost a month later and did not give the slightest reason for optimism.
      In the meantime, the head bearing of the right car was delivered from the port after repair, they received coal, water from the barges and on November 12 again went to sea to run in bearings at low speeds. On November 15, the tests lasted only three hours, the rotational speed from 80 was increased to 130 rpm, but then it was reduced to 50 - the bearings were warmed up again. Under the steam there were 29 boilers, pressure - from 14 to 15,8 atm.

      And we, damn it, have already discussed this! How much is that !!!
      1. +5
        27 November 2018 10: 07
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        And we, damn it, have already discussed this! How much is that !!!

        Is there any point in feeding the troll? :))))) Who was interested, they figured out everything, but Saxahorse continues its bagpipes on the principle of "slander, slander, let something remain"
        Oh, I completely forgot - good afternoon, dear Ivan!
      2. -1
        28 November 2018 00: 28
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        Are you tired of lying? The trials that you are talking so hard about took place on October 16 and were far from the last.

        Wow! And you do not ask the exact same counter-question?

        Why, for example, didn’t you give this quote in full? Learn from Andrey to pull out only the necessary numbers?
        Nearly 12 hours in all directions, the cruiser cruised the coastal waters of Port Arthur, either slowing down, then increasing speed and counting 157 miles on the lag. At noon, the rotational speed was brought to 130 rpm, but the vapor pressure dropped from 15,8 atm to 12 atm. Having put into operation the remaining eight boilers, they raised the pressure to 14-15 atm and gradually increased the rotation speed to 140 rpm, then after an hour they reduced it to 125 rpm, and by the end of the test they were again brought to 140 rpm

        Maybe after re-reading you remember that the tests were raid and no one even worried about reaching maximum speed? Or you didn’t notice that even the boilers were bred for half a day and slowly? However, at the same time, for several hours at 140 rpm, the cruiser still walked. Or do you not even understand this figure, 140 rpm?

        The speed in this case, due to the cruiser overload, apparently did not exceed 20,5 knots.

        You recall that 1300 tons of coal were loaded into the cruiser and brought the displacement to full? Will you be able to recalculate the revs to normal displacement, for example, from tests in Boston? I think it’s not difficult to notice that 21.8 knots should turn out because the Varyag’s displacement in Chemulpo was normal or even slightly less.

        Aren't you ashamed of Mr. "Senior Sailor" yet?

        All these fables about the technical problems of the Varyag are all the time recounted in the style of "The right door creaks, so the car won't start." No connection, no logic.

        Bearing heating, with which Andrei is rushing here like a written shell, was noticed back in Philadelphia, at the very first exit to the sea on 16.05.1900/24.6/12. He has always been! With this heating, the Varangian passed all the tests and was put into operation. This heating did not prevent the Varangian from breaking up to 23.2 knots in Boston and did not prevent it from passing 12 hour endurance tests at an average speed of XNUMX knots. Real XNUMX-hour. But for Rudnev suddenly became insurmountable.

        The first tale about 14 knots first appeared in Rudnev's work, and became an attempt to answer the third question - why was Mr. Rudnev crawling into battle at such an unrealistically low speed. And so the "broken cruiser Varyag" was born.
        1. +2
          28 November 2018 07: 27
          Quote: Saxahorse
          Or do you even understand this figure, 140 rpm?

          No, scasahorse, you don’t understand her.
          The cruiser really gave 140 October revolutions for an hour 16, no one argues with this. Just a week before this, overheating of the bearings occurred at 110 rpm. And after that, on November 15, the cruiser could no longer keep 130 revolutions.
          That is, from the fact that once during the tests, the Varangian managed to keep the 140 revolutions for an entire hour, it does not follow that he could do this afterwards. And this is obvious to everyone - well, except for the Saxahorse
          Quote: Saxahorse
          Bearing heating, with which Andrei is rushing here like a written shell, was noticed back in Philadelphia, at the very first outing of the sea 16.05.1900 of the year. He has always been! With this heating, the Varangian passed all the tests and was put into operation. This heating did not prevent Varyag from dispersing to 24.6 nodes in Boston and did not prevent 12 from undergoing hourly endurance tests at an average speed of 23.2 node.

          Lies. Just when the bearings overheated during testing, the speed was immediately "dropped", as it was, for example, on May 16, and it was not raised until the bearings cooled. And, of course, the bearings did not overheat during full-stroke tests and 12-hour tests. The tube in one of the boilers burst - it was, but the bearings did not warm up
          1. -1
            28 November 2018 23: 32
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            The cruiser really gave 140 October revolutions for an hour 16, no one argues with this. Just a week before this, overheating of the bearings occurred at 110 rpm. And after that, on November 15, the cruiser could no longer keep 130 revolutions.

            I’m saying - no logic :) Those. then at 110 overheating is critical then up to 140 rpm it is not there again at 130 overheating is critical :)) Do you confuse physical phenomena with the game of dice? By chance manifestations? Does it really occur to you that the speed was reduced simply because there was no need to reduce the life of the machine by this overheating? November 15, this is exactly what it was, I remind you once again that these were not tests, but a test of machines with a new bearing. We were convinced that it was still warming up, spat and sent to stand in Chemulpo. So as not to waste motor resources unnecessarily.

            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Lies. Just when the bearings overheated during the tests, the speed was immediately "dropped"

            What are you talking about! And you look at Kataev for the phrase "despite the strong heating of the bearings, the tests were found to be successful."

            Well, the water was poured onto the bearings only to wash them. When testing for this is the time.
            1. +3
              29 November 2018 06: 34
              Quote: Saxahorse
              I’m saying - no logic :) Those. then with 110 overheating is critical then up to 140 rpm there is none, then again with 130 overheating is critical :))

              No, it’s just that there was no overheating in the second tests, and in the third it appeared again - that's all.
              Quote: Saxahorse
              What are you talking about! And you look at Kataev for the phrase "despite the strong heating of the bearings, the tests were found to be successful."

              Lie like breathing :)))) In Kataev, this phrase refers to the intermediate tests, while we know that according to the results of these tests:
              1) The cruiser was not accepted into the treasury
              2) Had a chassis repair
              3) In the acceptance tests in Kataev, he does not mention heating bearings
              And if you also consider that the Varyag was returning home from the tests, which Kataev recognized as "successful" in one car, because white metal climbed out of the bearings on the right laughing
              We see that you will not give up a single lie to somehow confirm your "correctness"
              1. 0
                29 November 2018 23: 50
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                No, it’s just that there was no overheating in the second tests, and in the third it appeared again - that's all.

                Of course, the heating appeared again, because on November 12th they put a new bearing and it had to be worked out again.

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And if you also consider that the Varyag was returning home from the tests, which Kataev recognized as "successful" in one car, because white metal climbed out of the bearings on the right

                I am glad that you guessed to read Melnikov and saw that he also confirms the heating of the bearings at the first exit to the sea. :) True, they forgot to read the paragraph to the end, which states that replacing the melted bearing of the right machine two days later, on May 19, 1900, Varyag again went to sea and rode a few hours at a speed of 22 knots. After which, as Kataev correctly wrote, the tests were recognized as successful. Despite the strong heating of the bearings :))))

                So, as this heating was discovered back in Philadelphia, so he and the Varyag remained. And as far as I remember, the trouble with heating and watering wasn’t the only Varangian in those days. The disease is common.
                1. +1
                  30 November 2018 09: 49
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  True, they forgot to read the paragraph to the end, which states that replacing the melted bearing of the right machine two days later, on 19 on May 1900, Varyag again went to sea and rode for several hours at a speed of 22 knot. After which, as Kataev correctly wrote, the tests were recognized as successful. Despite the strong heating of the bearings :))))

                  That is, at first the ship went to sea, the heating of the bearings appeared, then it was repaired, the ship went to the sea, there was no heating of the bearings and the tests were successful - after the heating of the bearings was eradicated :))) And the ship went to acceptance tests WITHOUT bearings warming up :)
                  And we come back to yours
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  With this heating, the Varangian passed all the tests and was put into operation.

                  It seems I already called this thesis a lie? :)))
                  1. -1
                    30 November 2018 22: 34
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    It seems I already called this thesis a lie? :)))

                    In general, everything is as usual :)

                    Having shouted about lies, you finally agree that the heating of the bearings was detected at the first exit to the sea. And it is right :)

                    Note that, despite the shocking return to the port on one machine, Melnikov did not write that the problem disappeared after changing the bearing. And Kataev directly stated that the tests were recognized as successful despite strong heating of the bearings. In short, such heating was deemed acceptable.

                    And once again I remind you that the problem with heating is not unique. Read the heartbreaking lines about the mechanics of bucket-pouring bearings of an Emerald striking out of the Japanese environment at Tsushima. :)
            2. 0
              29 November 2018 20: 44
              Saksahors, let's play an alternative history. So in the morning they blow up the Koreyets, Stepanov takes the commanding place of Rudnev, the Varyag throws up steam, accelerates in the fairway, let it go up to 21 knots, and at this full speed it flies out from behind the Iodolmi Island.

              How much time does he need to break through the Western or Eastern channels?

              How and where will the Japanese cruisers and destroyers be located, how will they maneuver and fire?

              What will be the density of fire of Japanese ships?

              What will be the speed of the "Varyag" after the first hole or shell hitting the chimney?

              How will the Varyag behave at such a speed in the event of a possible loss of control?
              1. -1
                30 November 2018 00: 25
                Quote: Iwan
                let's play an alternate history. In the morning they blow up the Koreyets, Rudnev's commanding place is taken by Stepanov, the Varyag throws up steam, accelerates in the fairway, let it go up to 21 knots, and at this full speed it flies out from behind Iodolmi Island.

                Andrei plays an alternative story here. He came from this site, an alternative story. As there fantasized so here and continued.

                The questions you have listed have been discussed many times on Tsushima's websites. But if you break away from the alternative, you will notice that analogs answered them long ago. The cruisers Askold, Oleg, Aurora and the Varyag himself. All of them participated in equally difficult battles and all (including the Varyag) confirmed their high survivability, 10-15 hits for the 6000s is not a critical problem.

                This is the simplest option for the Varangian, simple and trite, pedal to the floor and forward. And if the "golden bullet" does not happen at once, depriving the cruiser either of speed or control (like Rurik), then the Varyag will simply slip past Uriyah's squadron and go to Port Arthur. Fairly plucked but undefeated :) Fortunately, there are only 14-15 hours in full swing. (And the Varyag, even with open Kingston with all its damage, without a fight for survivability - sank for 6 hours).

                There are options and smarter, like to wait for the dark (or late twilight) and just leave in the dark. But the worse option than Rudnev did - it’s hard to come up with.
        2. +2
          28 November 2018 09: 14
          Or you didn’t notice that even the boilers were bred for half a day and slowly?

          No, I just noticed and even poked you into the distance covered in 12 hours - 157 miles. C in connection with which it is obvious that the average speed was 13 knots and if the cruiser accelerated to 20, then for a very short period of time.
          Rudnev crawled into battle at such an unrealistically low speed.

          did you even read the cycle? It seems there are clearly described possible reasons for this.
          "The right door squeaks, so the car won't start."

          Another is trying to move on the automotive theme, without understanding anything in it :))). Since we are talking about ramparts, I would suggest another comparison - clinking crosses on a VAZ classic (I put enough on it at the time and, so to speak, was impressed :))). You can, in principle, go. You can even quickly, but there is a rather big chance that the cups of the crosses will fly out and the rotating cardan will break the bottom! Or even worse, it depends on which cross will fly first.
          I knew one such clown, the kingdom of heaven to him.

          No connection, no logic.

          I can’t but agree :)))
          1. 0
            28 November 2018 23: 48
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            No, I just noticed and even poked you into the distance covered in 12 hours - 157 miles. C in connection with which it is obvious that the average speed was 13 knots and if the cruiser accelerated to 20, then for a very short period of time.

            Ingenious! You are a worthy student of Andrew! You were reminded that in these 12-hour trials, the cruiser of the half-day of the pair just slowly picked up, i.e. completely stood or moved at minimum speed. And you immediately rushed to consider the average speed for all these 12 hours and even type me to poke it !? :)))

            Try at the same time to calculate the average speed of the Varangian for all the days that he was standing in the dry dock. All fans of Andrey will immediately realize how bad this cruiser is! laughing

            Quote: Senior Sailor
            did you even read the cycle? It seems that the possible reasons for this are described quite clearly.

            Of course I read it. Otherwise I wouldn't swear so hard. Andrey could not offer anything intelligible in answer to this question. It is interesting that Rudnev himself was the only thing that could come up with this to refer in his book to that "broken cruiser Varyag" that was unable to move faster than 14 knots.

            It should be noted that the books of both Melnikov and Kataev are largely devoted to the debunking of this centennial myth about 14 knots. And they certainly succeeded. Hence, by the way, a funny question, and our dreamer Andrei, where did he get his new figure of 17 knots from? Have you already thought up a new one?

            Quote: Senior Sailor
            You can, in principle, go. You can even quickly

            About that and speech. Look only at hundreds of thousands of Lada for years riding with broken bearings. He, the bearing, someday, sooner or later, of course will collapse from wear (if not replaced). Sometime in the future. And if you need to get here and now, then this can be scored. What are we daily on the roads and observe. And to think about the increased wear of the bearing when you need to go into battle - to put it mildly silly. Well, or cunning.
            1. +2
              29 November 2018 10: 11
              Brilliant!

              Thank:)
              And you immediately rushed to consider the average speed for all these 12 hours, and even like to poke me into it !?

              No, my friend, I reminded you of how the tests passed and you yourself admitted that you forgot this moment :))
              As I understand it, what you lied about calling these trials
              the last
              proven?
              hundreds of thousands of Lada

              Obviously, the difference between a Lada and a warship is beyond your understanding ... but why be proud of it?
              Of course I read.

              And they didn't understand anything ... but do you know why? You hear no one but yourself, but when you listen to yourself, it seems to you that it is broadcasting "the wisdom of the universe"
              1. -1
                30 November 2018 00: 14
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                No, my friend, I reminded you of how the tests passed and you yourself admitted that you forgot this moment :))

                Yes, they reminded me, and I am grateful to you for this reminder. The tests of October 16 clearly showed that the cruiser is able to walk at its fullest for at least 6 hours and at a speed of 19.5 to 21.8 knots.

                And if you insist, I’m ready to call going to sea for three hours on November 15, tests. Although it was dedicated to the survey of boilers on the ships of the squadron. This is confirmed by both a meager speed, 50-80 revolutions mainly, by a short time - only 3 hours, and by the fact that these are not special tests of one Varangian, but a check on all the squadron ships in case of increased combat readiness in anticipation of problems with Japan. I see no reason to draw any conclusions about the speed of the Varangian based on this output. Cruiser capabilities in terms of speed were studied in the latest tests on October 16.

                Quote: Senior Sailor
                You hear no one but yourself, but when you listen to yourself, it seems to you that the "wisdom of the universe" is broadcasting

                For some reason it seems to me that you are offended by something .. You are wrong. I read with interest what others write and learned a lot of interesting things for myself from comments including. An example is your own reminder of the tests of 16.10.1903/XNUMX/XNUMX.

                But on the other hand, there are problems. I already wrote - there can be no "different opinions" about physical laws. And when they propose to determine at sea by the height of the islands or do not know how to distinguish a two-pipe cruiser from a three-pipe cruiser, then pardonte. I am not ready to join such "wisdom". This is nonsense and that's how I call such ideas. Some people don't like it. :)
                1. +1
                  30 November 2018 10: 05
                  For some reason it seems to me that you are offended

                  Am I offended? !!! and you're funny :)))
                  1. 0
                    30 November 2018 22: 28
                    Well. Have a nice weekends too.
      3. +2
        28 November 2018 04: 42
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        Are you tired of lying?

        Dear Ivan, Kolya doesn’t lie, he’s a troll.
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        And we, damn it, have already discussed this! How much is that !!

        As much as needed - until the troll satisfies hunger.
        laughing
  18. -4
    27 November 2018 00: 22
    The commander and crew of the "Varyag", without a doubt, accomplished a military feat, and this feat caused great resonance and admiration in Russia and in the world. He became, so to speak, the “calling card” of the Russian Imperial Navy in that war

    And in addition, one cannot but note the huge negative effect exerted by the very fact of awarding Rudnev for this shameful battle in Chemulpo. I don’t want to talk anymore about Rudnev’s personality; we are well aware of the further negative attitude of fleet officers towards him (as well as to the fact of rewarding).

    There are worse consequences of this award, actually for cowardice. If for ordinary inhabitants the award ceremony is just an excuse to shout cheers, for fathers-commanders this is both a hint and a guide to action. The result is overwhelming. I reminded that of the large ships of the 1st squadron, only Rurik died in battle. All others successfully self-destructed or self-eliminated by internment in foreign ports. The large, not inferior in size to the Japanese fleet completely disappeared. And you will not show anything to any of the commanders! "They blew themselves up! ..." "We are flooded .."

    It is to Rudnev and his followers that we owe both Tsushima and a further defeat in the war. The stupidity and spinelessness of the tsar and the cowardice and mediocrity of senior commanders is the secret of the defeat of the Republic of Ingushetia in the RIA and the subsequent, inevitable, fall of the empire.
  19. +6
    27 November 2018 01: 41
    Well, that ended the saga of "Varyag", but somehow even a pity. I already sort of "got along" with her. For the people of my generation, the battle between the Varyag and the Koreyets has always been and forever remains a symbol of courage, courage and unbending spirit of Russian sailors. I hope that the guys from the younger generation will also be interested in the titanic (I'm not afraid of this word) work done by Andrey, and they will appreciate the feat of the seamen of the Russian fleet in desperate conditions, who challenged the enemy that repeatedly surpassed them.
    Here for this to you, Andrei from the glorious city of Chelyabinsk, sincere thanks and many thanks. And that is why we need a separate book about this fight. After all, not everyone will go to the side of VO and will be able to touch history. hi
    And the story about "Rurik" is already "knocking on your window", so I join Sergei Sadchikov and ... we are waiting. good
    1. +2
      27 November 2018 01: 52
      Quote: Sea Cat
      I hope that the guys from the young generation will also be interested in the titanic (not afraid of the word) work done by Andrei, and they will appreciate the feat of the sailors of the Russian Navy in hopeless conditions that have challenged the enemy that has repeatedly surpassed them.

      Interested, interested and will interest Yes True, I speak only for myself, and this topic is not alien to me myself, but my respected colleague Andrey is always very interesting to read. From time to time I reread his old cycles like "The Myths of Tsushima", "Varyag" will now have another cycle of articles for rereading (although it is from the works of a colleague and not my favorite).
  20. +4
    27 November 2018 01: 50
    Quote: Saxahorse
    Rudnev was forced to demonstrate determination under the pressure of his officers, but he was ready to turn and destroy his ship while still anchoring. Rudnev himself set his cruiser at minimum speed under the Asama longitudinal fire and immediately took flight.


    No, I understand everything, but the question remains, where did you get this information from? You already "clarify the situation", otherwise somehow it is more drawn to idle speculation. And Andrey, unlike you, argues all his conclusions quite clearly.
    1. 0
      28 November 2018 00: 40
      Quote: Sea Cat
      No, I understand everything, but the question remains, where did you get this information from? You already "clarify the situation", otherwise somehow you are more drawn to idle speculation.

      It’s not difficult to answer at all. I take information exactly from the same sources as Andrei. I’m just not trying to immediately drive it, information, into a predetermined ideological framework. And unfortunately, every now and then I see missing or discarded facts seriously changing the whole picture of the blessed picture painted by Andrei.

      I strongly advise you too. Do not believe me. Check everything yourself. Use your own head more often and less often take our word for our homegrown monarchists.
  21. +1
    27 November 2018 02: 53
    It’s even somehow sad that the cycle has ended, but we look forward to other exciting stories. Many thanks to the author for the excellent work. And yes, I personally managed to convince me of the correctness of your conclusions.

    PS Maybe it's time to switch to the book format? I think you will succeed.

    With respect and the wish of creative success.
  22. +1
    27 November 2018 04: 39
    The final quintessence of a wonderful series of articles, almost equivalent to a monograph.
    Thank you for the cycle and continued success, Andrey!
  23. 0
    27 November 2018 09: 32
    In general, the opinion of the author is reasonably justified and balanced!
    But the traditional "Americans are to blame" in the person of Crump (and Trump) is, as always, obscene and incorrect.
    In a healthy country, competently and consistently building its fleet - any attempt to supply a defective cruiser (and even a cartridge) will be stopped in the bud.
    In the final part of his story about the troubles of the "Varyag", Andrei from Chelyabinsk very soundly describes a frightening mess and irresponsibility during construction, acceptance, under-preparation for war and
    finally, to politics that put the cruiser in a position fraught with its death in the conditions of the outbreak of hostilities.
    Which is what happened.
    Is it also Trump (and Trump) to blame?
    Regarding the Varyag machines, Andrei writes that "European and Russian-built ships did not have such problems."
    However, the memories of sailing on the ships of the Tsushima squadron say something else: a lot of defects, including cars and boilers.
    One should not forget this: steam vessels of the turn of the 19-20th centuries - then high-tech.
    As such, it is very imperfect, undeveloped and unreliable.
    Like rockets of the turn of the 20-21 centuries, which fall quite regularly and fly away for other purposes.
    I am sure that "Andrey from Chelyabinsk" of the 22nd century will subject them to harsh and uncompromising criticism :)
    1. +3
      27 November 2018 10: 05
      Quote: nemoXX
      In a healthy country, competently and consistently building its fleet - any attempt to supply a defective cruiser (and even a cartridge) will be stopped in the bud.

      Dear NemoXX, then please cross out the UK from the list of "healthy countries that are competently and consistently building their fleet". Based on just two words: the battleship Captain.
      Quote: nemoXX
      But the traditional "the Americans are to blame" in the person of Crump (and Trump) is, as always, obscene and incorrect

      You didn’t pay attention to one simple fact - even if the Russians then showed due perseverance and didn’t accept the Varangian in the fleet, this would not have canceled the fact that Kramp was building a defective ship :)))) So it's to blame.
      Quote: nemoXX
      Is it also Trump (and Trump) to blame?

      In my opinion, I indicated the culprits of this or that event very clearly :)))))
      Quote: nemoXX
      Regarding the Varyag machines, Andrei writes that "European and Russian-built ships did not have such problems."
      However, the memories of sailing on the ships of the Tsushima squadron say something else: a lot of defects, including cars and boilers.

      Defect to defect are different, and on the most "sick" 2TOE ships, nothing similar to what was done by the "Varyag" power plant was not observed.
      Quote: nemoXX
      One should not forget this: steam vessels of the turn of the 19-20th centuries - then high-tech.
      As such, it is very imperfect, undeveloped and unreliable.

      This is not true. It's not in vain that I make comparisons with the same armored cruiser Bayan - there were no such problems on it. And you can remember many other warships - "Russia", "Thunderbolt", "Bogatyr", "Askold", "Pallada", etc. etc. whose time spent in repairs was not even close to the Varangian
      1. 0
        27 November 2018 10: 19
        Well, I expressed my opinion, and you have the right to have your own!
        "It will not work to" delete "Britain ..." they just knew how to fight "and the title of" mistress of the seas "was fully deserved.
        If you accept a defective cat-in-a-poke ship, you are to blame.
        If in the country for centuries (!) Someone abroad is to blame, an endless series of "traitors and enemies of the people", rapidly growing in number, despite the mass destruction of the people, then there is no need to expect a solution to the problems of such a country.
        On the other hand, one has to expect new "feats of the Varangians", set in similar, obviously losing, conditions.
        So in June 41, the whole country became a single "Varyag", having made a "great victory", which no one in their right mind is going to repeat.
        1. +8
          27 November 2018 11: 00
          Quote: nemoXX
          "It will not work to" delete "Britain ..." they just knew how to fight "and the title of" mistress of the seas "was fully deserved.

          Well, excuse me, the idea of ​​deleting countries on the basis of the fleet's acceptance of knowingly defective ships is your idea. And when offering such "scissors" one should be impartial - especially since I can bring you a dozen British ships that had, to put it mildly, phenomenal problems that made them incapable of combat, but were accepted into the fleet.
          I do not blame you for having a different point of view from me :)))) Only in the absence of impartiality do you forgive England for not wanting to forgive Russia
          Quote: nemoXX
          If you accept a defective cat-in-a-poke ship, you are to blame.

          No, the one who built it is to blame. You are to blame for accepting.
          Quote: nemoXX
          If in a country for centuries (!) Someone foreign is to blame

          Don't exaggerate. Ch. Crump is not to blame for "the country's problems for centuries," but for the fact that he supplied Russia with a technically unfit cruiser. We are because he was accepted this way
          Quote: nemoXX
          So in June 41, the whole country became a single "Varyag", having made a "great victory", which no one in their right mind is going to repeat.

          I beg you :))))) Do not start stories about
          Quote: nemoXX
          an endless series of "traitors and enemies of the people", rapidly growing in number, despite the mass destruction of the people

          because reality is infinitely far from these statements
          1. +4
            28 November 2018 04: 47
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            You forgive England for not wanting to forgive Russia

            Great words, Andrei, a bullseye.
    2. +3
      28 November 2018 05: 06
      Quote: nemoXX
      In a healthy country, competently and consistently building its fleet - any attempt to supply a defective cruiser (and even a cartridge) will be stopped in the bud.

      Come on, have you forgotten how many 12 '' guns were blown apart by the Japanese in two general battles of the Russian-Japanese war?
      And no measures helped, even such ingenious ones as a tarpaulin casing with outboard water for each barrel (in Tsushima). Like the Maxim machine gun, it worked, but all the same, the (English-made) guns were tore apart with English-made shells. And you say that a defective "patron" will not slip through ...

      The exploded weapon was taken out of "Mikasa" - like a tooth pulled out.
    3. +3
      28 November 2018 09: 20
      Like rockets of the turn of the 20-21 centuries, which fall quite regularly and fly away for other purposes.
      I am sure that "Andrey from Chelyabinsk" of the 22nd century will subject them to harsh and uncompromising criticism :)

      But the brackets here are completely inappropriate, dear comrade. If you carefully If you read other articles by Andrei’s colleague, especially those dedicated to the current fleet of Russia, you will be surprised (hopefully) to find out that it does — yes, it does!
      and even earned for this the honorary title of "all-consuming" from some "patriots" Yes
  24. +6
    28 November 2018 01: 36
    Quote: Saxahorse


    I strongly advise you too. Do not believe me. Check everything yourself. Use your own head more often and less often take our word for our homegrown monarchists.


    Thanks for the advice. True, he was somewhat late. Fifty years on average. Imagine living to the eighth decade and almost always using his own head. As for faith to all sorts of monarchists, and even more so to communists - here, excuse me, life has weaned you out of faith in any faith. By the way, I did not notice anything "monarchical" in Andrey's works. He is just studying the history of his country. And his arguments are serious, you haven't really brought a single one. One, sorry, water. hi
    1. 0
      28 November 2018 23: 21
      Quote: Sea Cat
      By the way, I did not notice anything "monarchical" in Andrey's works. He is just studying the history of his country. And his arguments are serious, you haven't really brought a single one.

      Well then. This means that, contrary to your words, you have never checked anything for Andrey. I also once said "thank you" for the articles to Andrey. And he began to check - he quickly became an objectionable troll.

      I see no reason to argue with you. In matters of faith, arguments are useless.
      1. -3
        2 December 2018 16: 22
        There’s no arguing against the “faith” ... one consolation is that one cannot publish a monograph on such materials, only compile another campaign for children. Shoigu approves, although he does not understand .. waterfowl.
        It surprises me all the time that everyone who describes the fighting in the REV especially emphasizes that the Japanese shells exploded when they hit the water !!!
        Speaking about our shells, they emphasize that they were armor-piercing ??? No, there were bombing ones - but for firing at coastal targets, because the "blanks" on the shore were not noticeable ... They didn’t cause any harm either, buried in the ground and that’s all .. Well, the allies in the war with China showed how and what to shell ..
        In fact, the release of such shells was not set up until the end of the REV. They shot both pig-iron and steel blanks. The reason is deeper.
        After the defeat in the Crimean War and until the 1890s, there were NO ships in the reef - especially in the Black Sea.
        They began to build after 1885, only officers from the Marine Corps remained old ... sail-wheel ..
        They fought with the Turks in 1878, since then they still fired nuclei from steamboats, while ours on mines poked mines on board. And so the flag was “demonstrated” more!
        So, from that time on the RIF there were blanks instead of cores .. Okay, at least Makarov came up with “caps”. But no one heard about physics, nor was it supposed to be gentlemen for naval officers. Well, they bought modern guns ... and shells and so on.
        So with an increase in the firing range - cast-iron began to collapse (the charge of gunpowder is greater, so that it flew further). We decided to shoot a smaller charge of gunpowder .. to make shells easier. And the kinetic energy when a projectile meets a target - mV (quadr.) / 2 ... began to be much less. They often didn’t pierce armor, and the charge of gunpowder (2,5%) created the stench current, split into pieces. But the Japanese fought seriously - the shell delivered a large amount of explosives, the explosion energy of which greatly exceeded the kinetics of Russian blanks ...
        Rudnev was one of such officers (like others in the RIF) - who did not fight at all. And he hoped that the Japanese would also throw blanks, well, and the japes put a pig .. and even mounted optical sights on the guns (even on 47 mm)!
        For this reason, Rudnev was in SHOCK. Shards fly everywhere - kill nearby, standing .. in an armored conning tower (!). Especially if the battle is the first time in many years of service and with such intensity and damaging factors. But the guns were generally without shields — they did not know that they would “shower” with fragments, what kind of “well-aimed shooting” was there. Yes, torpedo tubes on the deck ..
        Therefore, an inexplicable turn to the right and to the sandbank is a loss of controllability and a return to Chemulpo. Where is the feat? By the way, where were the shells of 47 mm guns fired? A 75 mm?
        Go destroyers .. Japanese ?. Well, at least the MTK was persuaded not to install the sailing equipment .. Kramp would have gone crazy .. But on the Vladivostok cruisers the sails remained ..
        Well, in conclusion, the opinion of Admiral Skrydlov, who commanded in the Pacific Ocean and not only:
        Opinion of Admiral Skrydlov:
        "To the credit of domestic shipbuilders, I will say: if I have to choose a flagship out of the ten best cruisers in the world, I will raise their papers and take the one that was launched at the Baltic Shipyard in St. Petersburg. The rest may have a more representative appearance, and more innovations, and the devil knows what other joys in the test form, but I need first of all someone who is calm in management and reliable. Reliable - they do not stick to records, they just honestly and modestly serve the Fatherland ... I will not choose "Varyag" due to the fact that its construction was primarily of a market nature. In it, more than all the features, the desire of a private plant for economic profit is noticeable. As a result, the structure of the body is subtle, lacks solidity and thoroughness in the manufacture of mechanical parts ... Its three-wheel drive is only good at the idea, but in fact it is impossible to rely on it, since the steam part of the drive suffers from a lack of energy, the hydraulic part is weak and low reagent, and the electric drive is completely unreliable due to constant malfunctions in the generator. The boiler rooms are unsafe for the sailors working in them, since steam discharges are frequent and fans are imperfect, so that the temperature in the compartments is always higher than harmless to health. The number of hatches is less than necessary for the timely evacuation of the team from the bottom in case of a hole or accident. You can get out of the middle boiler room only with the complete well-being of the neighbors. In the first year of service, the internal sheet connections of the chimneys burned out, like that of an old ship, and require replacement. I have never seen such early wear and tear on ships, even having served for seven years. Look at "Rurik" - with its fire-tube boilers, it has chimneys in the best condition. The latest system of spraying bearings of the main machine with water only at first glance evokes a feeling of technical innovation. A ship with good suspension just does not need it! Mr. Crump, apparently, knew that his cruisers were suffering from technological disruptions in cars, and thus tried to hide his own miscalculation in the project under the guise of an invention. The machines are arranged in spacious and comfortable compartments, the position of the main mechanisms inside the case can be considered exemplary convenient for the team. But at the same time, the cruiser’s vehicles were assembled, obviously, without due diligence and, in any case, without the necessary thoroughness and reconciliation. One trip from the Baltic to the East was enough for the cruiser to be completely torn up and become a burden for the squadron immediately upon joining it. Add to that the complete insecurity of the cruiser’s artillery. God be with them, with deck shields - they will still save few from shrapnel because of their subtlety. The British have long been putting towers on the cruisers - this is protection. True, sometimes the installation of towers is hindered by a decrease in seaworthiness, but our Russian way of protecting guns with armored casemates managed to prove itself well! "Russia" is an ideal cruiser for a war on communications, why not follow her example? Mine armament "Varyag" is just strange to me. Even during the design of this cruiser, he got what is already on the fleet of all the fleets of the world. All six torpedo tubes are surface-mounted, not covered by armor and pose a greater danger to their master than to the enemy. Commander Baer enthusiastically speaks of the Varyag's seaworthiness ... I don’t know, I didn’t find her. With me, the cruiser was not able to stay perpendicular to the wave, hit the lag and fell in such a roll that he probably could not shoot. Its keel pitching is sharp, nervous, with frequent outages of screws, which extremely negatively affects the work of already torn mechanisms. The ship enters the wave with difficulty, takes the water in the tank and vibrates, as if trying to shake off the song ... Such vibrations are not excusable to any destroyer, not like a ship for six thousand displacement. Of course, there are positive features in it: grace and external beauty, which we often take as a derivative of good seaworthiness, the logical arrangement of bridges and internal communication systems that allow you to perfectly transmit commands to any working compartments, and the convenient location of cabins and crew cockpits.
        From the Tsushima.su forum
        Note:
        1. Why did 1TOE shoot better by May 28 than 2TOE? Duc, because she had already fought since January, fought back ... and the 2TOE still did not know when she would be ... and which ship exactly.
        2. And Rozhdestvensky - did not know that Japanese shells were like that?!? .. Did he command the Naval Headquarters? And the Russian attaches did not inform (or maybe they did, only to another department). So 2TOE got into the "cover". And then it was too late.
        3. Skrydlov said well about the Varyag - it would be less shameful for the fleet to stay with the royal yacht. Skrydlov pointed out all the main poor seaworthiness of the Varyag.
        4. Yes, but where did the headquarters of the 2TOE go along with the commander during the battle? There was simply nowhere to run - on the left, Fr. Tsushima and Japanese Korea, and on the right, Japan - there is nowhere even to be interned. Just like Rudnev (shell-shocked), only everything was “hung” on the headquarters and on the commander of the destroyer.
        5. Here it is WRONG to snatch a small piece from the general and talk about victory. By the way, Russia, having lost the fleet in the REV, took into account the mistakes and began to build a modern one .. did not have time.
        6. Found a book by prof. Goncharov "Projectile and Armor". That's horrible! Poor painters... to learn that at the Academy.
        1. +2
          2 December 2018 16: 30
          Quote: Shturman_50
          Why did 1TE shoot better for May 28 than 2?

          Because you abused the stew on the weekend? :)))) 2TOE shot MUCH BETTER 1TOE.
          However, the level of your comments has long been clear, it's only strange why, having such "knowledge", you are not afraid to meddle in discussions with people who understand the topic by orders of magnitude more than yours ... Say, "Dementia and courage" is not your motto, by chance?
          1. 0
            4 December 2018 08: 33
            “2TOE shot MUCH BETTER 1TOE.”
            And when Khaikhetiro Togo was informed about this (he didn’t know yet!), Then, with the divine consent, TENNO invited the remaining Admiral of Togo to all the remaining participants of the 2nd TOE “to rest and improve their health” in Japan .. with full board! Christmas too. Rudnev did not get to the boarding house, so he was sent the order home on purpose ..
            At the same time, there was an order - to raise the sunken (which is possible), tow to the factories, repair and restore the crippled ships of the RIF, well, paint the identity.
            And from that “fragrance in the air” spilled and flew to St. Petersburg itself, right up to the EIV Niki-2!
            Feeling the harmony and fragrance of EIV, Niki-2, in response, allowed the Japanese people to use half of Sakhalin, and in addition Korea (northern and southern), Port Arthur, Dalniy, Manchuria and the railways (South-Caucasian Railway and partially CER) .. well, there’s a little thing ...
            For accuracy, we add that EIV Niki-2 paid for boarding and treatment of the remnants of 2TOE crews, repair of ships (not all ..), but only those that the Japanese were mercifully allowed to return, and not “seize” ... Varyag, for example, Peresvet and more there the steamboats did return from repair to their native harbor.
            But this is a RIF fleet, and the army had a worse one ... ships they didn’t have armored trains, tanks with crews .. so would they, too, with a boarding house. True, there is an opinion that Japan does not feed the excess, but this is from envy, and EIV Niki-2 would not leave its people in trouble. Well, I would have taken a loan from France, business.
            At the end of our history, EIV Niki-2 had to create an investigative commission to find out all the causes and events, however, all the perpetrators were pardoned safely .. and then the "fragrance in the air" ended.
            So staff, we understand how 2TOE shot, even in comparison with 1TOE .. that at least "did not give up on a boarding house ..".
            1. 0
              4 December 2018 08: 35
              As the RIF ships shot in the REV I will somehow write with mathematics and physics .. I’ll cope with laziness.
  25. 0
    29 November 2018 01: 02
    Quote: Saxahorse

    I see no reason to argue with you. In matters of faith, arguments are useless.
    Reply


    So the whole question is what to believe ... hi
  26. +1
    29 November 2018 20: 33
    Andrey, thank you very much for this interesting series of articles! I join the aforementioned requests and wishes for the same analysis of the battle in the Korea Strait.
  27. -1
    1 December 2018 07: 33
    Interestingly, but REALLY - REALLY, the cruiser Varyag was not flooded.
    He was cast in shallow water. Here is the Norwegian frigate - sank, it is a FACT!
    Varyag has a margin of buoyancy, so talking about flooding means telling lies.
    From the point of view of the theory of the structure and survivability of the ship (TUZhK), being left by the crew, having insignificant water inflow .. (there was a patch on the hole, etc.) inside the hull "sat down" on the ground.
    Silt scored all the open bottom kingstones .. So it would "sit" as a monument.

    Saved the situation - VERY HIGH TIDE in Chemulpo. When the water began to arrive, the cruiser began to float, as there remained volumes of unfilled compartments (stock of buoyancy). The left side plunged to the top edge - DISAPPEARING RESTORING MOMENT. Water inside the hull went to the left side - caused a shift in the center of gravity and increased the overturning moment. The cruiser Varyag almost lay aboard - but it was shallow ... Then, after a series of powerful tides, he buried himself completely in the silt.
    There are no such tides in the Black Sea or the Baltic ...
    And so, of course, he simply had nowhere to sink ...
    1. -1
      1 December 2018 07: 35
      I would also like to note the free use of sources .. and the complete disregard for physics, mathematics and the basics of navigation.
    2. 0
      4 December 2018 08: 36
      Here is what Melnikov writes in his work on the Varangian:
      The main pipe, which played a positive role in the initial period of the armored fleet, outlived itself with an increase in size and complexity of the ship structure, as evidenced by the death of the battleship Gangut in the Baltic Sea in 1897, which bumped into underwater rocks. This event accelerated the transition to a more reliable autonomous system to ensure unsinkability, in which the flow of water into the ship was prevented by completely isolating the emergency compartment.
      On January 13, 1898, the MTK circular was adopted on the elimination of main pipes on ships, and a month later new, much more stringent, testing rules for waterproof bulkheads were introduced, which guaranteed their strength even when the compartment was completely flooded with water. The drainage equipment installed in the compartments was assigned an inherent auxiliary role - to slow down the flow of water or pump out water from the compartments after sealing the hole.
      A reflection of the conflict of opinion that took place in the commission was two detailed notes sent by M. A. Danilevsky to St. Petersburg: notes by P. E. Chernigovsky in favor of the main pipe (its diameter on the “Varyag” was expected to be increased to 508 mm) and A. I. Fronskevich, who insisted on an autonomous principle. MTK confirmed its decision, and the main pipe on the "Varyag", despite the work already begun, had to be liquidated.
      Engaged in the construction of the armored fleet A. Popov since 1872, he attracted Lieutenant Makarov to ensure the unsinkability of new ships: the battleship "Peter the Great", pilgrims and frigates. This gave Makarov considerable experience.
      In 1875, Makarov published the work “On the unsinkability of ships,” in which he outlined this experience and his conclusions. He proposed to divide the hull into compartments with waterproof transverse bulkheads, to create a second bottom and a second side, divided into small compartments. According to his design, the drainage system consisted of main pipes connected with pipes in compartments, which made it possible to drain and fill any compartments if necessary.
      Makarov thought it possible and necessary to straighten the heel by pouring water into the opposite compartment.
      Here the Varangian was lucky that during the construction of this main pipe they “threw away” .. Otherwise, he would have been aground in Chemulpo, like a monument. Imagine, the roll would be hidden by the flooding of the compartment on the starboard side, crawled into the raid and sat on the ground on an even keel !!! (opening kingstones)
  28. +1
    3 December 2018 14: 44
    Andrey, thank you very much!
    This was spectacular!
    I look forward to new work !!!
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. +1
    14 January 2019 21: 40
    good
    Colleague, I read this brilliant cycle with pleasure and benefit. I really have a nasty question - HOW the cruiser commander could SO be mistaken in the consumption of shells (no need about the magazine, everything is clear here). He had not only had nothing to do with shooting, but also no idea of ​​it, so what? Unlikely. It turns out, it seems to me, that he deliberately began to "embellish" reality from the very beginning.
  31. 0
    29 June 2019 11: 24
    An interesting story about "Varyag". It is clear that the commanders of the Russian ships, going to the breakthrough, could not know how many Japanese ships were waiting for them at the exit. And what class are those ships. One thing is not clear to me. Why the main guns of the Varyag did not have shields. Who designed such sabotage and who approved
  32. 0
    6 July 2020 12: 39
    Respect to the author for such a detailed study of the topic.
    But still it is surprising why the author believes the Japanese (that is, the enemy). but he does not believe our Russian commander Rudnev. Clear business. that during the war everyone lies. But to believe the Japanese that they did not suffer any losses at all?
    Fourteen warships. If we count the "Chihaya", then 15, and even if it is just an "advice note", there are guns on it, and it may well finish off the damaged cruiser. So, 15 Japanese ships - 6 cruisers, 8 destroyers and 1 advice note - against two Russians, one cruiser with malfunctions in the car and allegedly "untrained" gunners, and an old gunboat .... And of the 6 Japanese cruisers, only one "Asama" "surpassed" Varyag "with" Koreyets "combined. The superiority is more than overwhelming. And these 15 ships could not destroy 2 Russian ships. Agree - this is a specific bummer. Is it not from here that the "ears" of Japanese information grow - you must at least somehow justify yourself, they say, well, just think - they could not destroy, but there are no losses.
    And why does the author not believe Rudnev that Varyag fired 1105 shells? 36 guns (12 152 mm, 12 75 mm, 8 47 mm, 2 37 mm, 2 63 mm), even if only half fired (on board), with a rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute for half an hour of combat can fire every 5 projectiles.
    There is eyewitness testimony about damage to the Asama's aft tower, at least from an Italian stationary. With 1105 shells and at least 1% of hits, we already have 10-11 shells hitting enemy ships.
    In addition, in half an hour, the ships approached the distance of a "pistol shot", when even 47-mm guns entered the battle, and at such a distance even completely untrained gunners had to get somewhere. Although without a rangefinder, in fact, direct fire.
    And naturally, the Japanese will hush up the drowning of the destroyer because this is the first thing in the war - to belittle their losses, and to overestimate the enemy.

    And, perhaps, the most important argument. In 1907, the Japanese awarded Rudnev with the order, in tribute of respect and admiration. That is, “Varyag” proved to be not just a “whipping boy”, but in return he was able to “hit cuffs”. All the same, the Japs are not "gayropeytsy", and have their own notions of honor + samurai code. It's one thing - just like that, without loss, to shoot, albeit in a crowd, a cruiser with an old gunboat, and another thing - to fight with a cruiser and an old gunboat, which not only wag against the crowd, but also fight well, handing out luli left and right.
    Although I don’t want to talk about the "subjunctive mood in history", but who knows - if not for the fatal hit in the steering wheels and the car, maybe the "Varyag" had a chance to break through? In general, if they noticed the whole Russo-Japanese war, the Japs went out only out of sheer luck: either a shell would hit the Varyag's steering wheels, then Petropavlovsk would be blown up by a mine and Makarov would die, then they would fall into the wheelhouse of the Tsarevich, and Vitgeft would die. July 28 ....
  33. 0
    9 August 2023 13: 43
    It’s impossible to consider this whole farce as a feat. What is the feat? That in an attempt to preserve the notorious "honor of the uniform" Rudnev let the Japs practice shooting with impunity, and after that he destroyed the "Korean" anyway, and gave the "Varyag" to the Japs? And there is no need to squeal that they say "Varyag" was made training. Training ships are also a necessary thing. In my opinion, this is not a feat, this is idiocy. From the same category as the seppuku of the Japs.
    A feat, for example, in Gastello, who, at the cost of death, inflicted significant damage on the enemy. At Talallihin, who rammed a bomber ready to drop bombs on residential areas. Matrosov, who saved dozens of his comrades at the cost of his life. At the defenders of Pavlov's house in Stalingrad, finally. And what did Rudnev achieve? And what did he hope to achieve if he knew, as the author assures us, of the notorious inability of his ships to break through the blockade? And the actual incompetence of their strongest combat unit? No, this is not a feat. Dementia and courage, so it will be more accurate. Or maybe, if we recall the attitude that existed among gentlemen officers towards the Japs, as to macaques, for whom the shout of a white gentleman is enough, then perhaps there was no courage, but only dementia.

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