In the US, created the "ion" plane

American scientists from the Massachusetts Institute (MIT) created the first unmanned aircraft equipped with "air" ion engines, reports RIA News.

Tests of the aircraft took place in the laboratory. The car stayed in the air for 12 seconds.

According to Professor Stephen Barrett, this is the first aircraft that was able to take to the air with the help of an engine that has no moving parts. A successful experiment opens the way for the creation of completely silent devices that do not emit exhaust gases.

The idea of ​​an ion engine is not new: American and Soviet scientists began to deal with this topic in 1960. During this time, several vehicles with similar engines (for example, the Soviet probes "Meteor" and "Cosmos") were launched into space.

However, all developments have the same advantages and disadvantages: they are extremely economical, but the thrust generated by ion engines is extremely small. ” Because of this, the acceleration and deceleration of the spacecraft occurs very slowly, which makes them an inconvenient means of transporting people to Mars or other planets.

But according to Barrett, scientists from MIT managed to discover the method of air ionization, which made it possible to increase the efficiency of these engines by "several orders of magnitude."

As physicists have discovered, a wing covered with a fine grid of electrodes can cause a "chain reaction" in the air, forcing free electrons to collide with neutral molecules and "knock out" other particles from them, filling the surrounding space with a mixture of many ions and uncharged particles . Being inside the electric field, charged particles begin to move in the direction of the opposite pole, colliding with neutral particles and forcing them to move in the opposite direction. There will be the so-called "ion wind", which has a fairly large thrust force.

Using this technique, scientists have increased the efficiency of the ion engine from one to 2,4%. An aircraft weighing 2,5 kg and with a wingspan of 5 meters was able to fly 12 seconds to 55 meters, while spending about 900 watts of electricity.

The participants in the experiment are confident that in the future these indicators will be repeatedly improved.

Comments

[Irokez]

scientists increased the efficiency of the ion engine from one to 2,4%

Hmm Not very thick.

[Consultant]

Quote: Irokez

scientists increased the efficiency of the ion engine from one to 2,4%

Hmm Not very thick.

But by 240%

It reminds me of something, from many here the favorite topic "about the pace of development of the country", for example.

[AUL]

while spending about 900 watts of electricity.

Actually, the amount of energy is not measured in watts. If a journalist undertook to write on such topics, it would be nice to teach him physics. Well, or ask who is smarter and not shame!

[kasatky]

Not an article, but complete nonsense!
First they write: - "They are extremely economical, but the thrust force generated by ion engines is extremely small." Then they declare the opposite, that it turns out there is no efficiency and efficiency in a few percent, but not a word about traction.
Probably, the article is aimed at the western reader :)

[NG inform]

Profitability is different for different indicators. Space ion engines are very economical in specific impulse, which is critical for space. They are inefficient in energy, but with it in space it is easier than with mass.

[kasatky]

Are you talking about efficient exhaustion of combustion products? Spending a working fluid? But this certainly does not need an ionic plane flying in the Earth’s atmosphere :)

[Shurik70]

The main advantage of ion exchangers is not profitability (they are still very far from a screw drive), but the absence of moving parts.
That is, theoretically, it is possible to make an UAV, which almost does not require maintenance, and at the same time serve for many decades.

[AVA77]

Congratulations to the Americans. They invented the Chizhevsky chandelier and renamed it an ion engine

[AVA77]

As physicists have discovered, a wing covered with a fine grid of electrodes can cause a "chain reaction" in the air, forcing free electrons to collide with neutral molecules and "knock out" other particles from them, filling the surrounding space with a mixture of many ions and uncharged particles . Being inside the electric field, charged particles begin to move in the direction of the opposite pole, colliding with neutral particles and forcing them to move in the opposite direction. There will be the so-called "ion wind", which has a fairly large thrust force.

Particularly secret photo. Particularly secret test. prototype ion engine

[gridasov]

If you are familiar with electronic magnetic phenomena, you should know that the potential difference, and therefore ionic interactions, takes place only at the nodal points of the grid; therefore, the effect depends on the tension at these points and on their number. But this is still low-potential interaction. Because the potential difference must be initiated by the speed of the air flow and, again, by the number of ionized sections and the concentration of potential at the nodal points

[AVA77]

More shortly. More mesh, more needles?

[NEXUS]

Quote: AVA77

Congratulations to the Americans. They invented the Chizhevsky chandelier and renamed it an ion engine

Well this topic is not so new and exclusive ...

At the test complex of the Design Bureau of Chemical Automation in Voronezh, the first firing tests of a high-frequency ion electric rocket engine were successfully completed. This was reported on the website of Roscosmos.

The tests were carried out on a special vacuum bench and confirmed the compliance of the engine parameters with the technical specifications. Ionic engines can find application in the correction of the orbit of satellites and the implementation of flights into deep space.
In Voronezh, the creation of ion engines began in the 2012 year. In the future, designers plan to conduct new fire tests to develop a resource and verify the stability of the confirmed characteristics during long-term operation.

Ionic engines, including those designed for future deep space exploration, create jet propulsion using ionized and accelerated to high speeds gas in an electric field. They are characterized by low fuel consumption and durability, but they have a relatively low traction.

Also an ion engine, only rocket.

[Aibolit]

Quote from AUL

If a journalist undertook to write on such topics, it would be nice to teach him physics. Well, or ask who is smarter and not shame!

he (the author) did not write. Ria news, the author only "cut off"
Well, with power in the ria they got what to take from them. Recently, the EGE was handed over to see (both the author and RIA-news)
In original:

spending 900 watts electricity.

(power of its lithium batteries)

Quote: Irokez

Hmm Not very thick.

the anonymous "Author" is not even aware that the efficiency of the ion engine has long been 50-80% (0,5-0,8)

(3- thrust / power, 4- efficiency)
and variations of KID (ring ion engines), for example, in the NASA xenon thruster (NEXT) provides an electrical efficiency of more than 90 percent (0,9)

efficiency they are, the same are different

The efficiency of a piston two-stroke engine mounted on light aircraft is approximately 0,25
The efficiency of an airplane propeller lies within. 0,7-0,85 (For a light-engine aircraft, this coefficient can be taken equal to 0,75)
In addition, part of the energy is lost in the gearbox. For a single-stage gear reducer, the efficiency can be taken equal to 0,98
Thus, the efficiency of converting the mechanical energy of the engine into the energy of motion of the aircraft is

and the total coefficient of conversion of the chemical energy of fuel into the energy of motion of a light-engine aircraft with a two-stroke engine is.
For this IONOLET, if instead of the piston efficiency of 0,25, put the electric efficiency of one engine (let 70% = 0,7), and replace

the total coefficient of conversion of the chemical energy of fuel into the energy of motion of a light-engine aircraft with a two-stroke engine is.

(on accumulators it is "The aircraft fuselage contains a stack of lithium-polymer batteries"), we get the desired efficiency
But not 2,4%
Especially in the original (MIT)
http://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121
not a word about

Quote: anonymous author

Using this technique, scientists increased the efficiency of the ion engine from one to 2,4%.

let it fly

Good thing!
Guys not only know how to play basketball

Quote: kasatky

but not a word about cravings.

About traction, you can not say it is miserable (miles, micro Newtons). A good momentum from 6000 seconds

NEXT with a power of 6.9 kW gives a thrust of 236 mN and a pulse of 4190 seconds

[Mikhail3]

Fear is a good thing. Imagine an ionized train that will release an engine that can carry a real plane. Forget the birds. Why do we need birds at all, right? But even insects will get it, which are immeasurably superior to all other living organisms on earth with a total mass. Even among them, losses will become noticeable. Well, the weather will also ... react.
They got into history ...

[Aibolit]

Imagine an ionized train that will release an engine that can carry a real plane.

nothing will be there. Remission (distance 10-20m from the nozzle) no more than from the jet from the turbojet engine, even less.
ions will immediately "devour" free electrons

Free electrons - these are the true features of the invisible world, its main transformations, formations and transformations

- / scientist, biophysicist Alexander Chizhevsky.

Quote: Mikhail3

Forget the birds. Why do we need birds at all, right? But even insects will get it, which are immeasurably superior to all other living organisms on earth with a total mass.

1.Everyone minute lightning strikes the earth 6000 times.

2. Current in a lightning discharge on Earth reaches 10-500 thousand amperes, voltage - from 10 million to a billion volts
3. Birds, let alone insects do not fly at such heights

Quote: Mikhail3

Well, the weather will also ... react.
They got into history ...

from several tens of megawatts of power?
Well don't make me laugh

Every day in the world takes off and lands about 50000 aircraft (not all passenger, but even according to the most conservative estimates of passenger 30000), almost 20 million flights a year ..

Are the birds and insects alive?

[NG inform]

Well, that is, consuming energy as an average apartment with working appliances - they create cravings at the level of the weakest blow.
Damn physics.

[Troll]

not much

one of the first electric motors created had only 15 watts. power

[Tarhan]

one of the first electric motors created had only 15 watts. power

As always with the Urashniks - We do not have and do not need it, if only the others have nothing.

On December 17, 1903, the Wright brothers' plane made its first flight in history, the plane flew 36,5 meters in 12 seconds.

In 1914, aircraft already participated in the battles of the First World War.

[Machito]

Without a gravitsapa, an American plane will not fly.

[konst]

Russia attaches. There is a lot of mind, but we DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS to dispose of it under the CONSTITUTION - IT IS FORBIDDEN BY YOURSELF!

[Wolverine]

Quote: Bearded

Without a gravitsapa, an American plane will not fly.

[Wedmak]

Well, it remains only to place nuclear power plants on board. If it took 2,5 watts to move 55 kg to 900 meters ... I’m even afraid to introduce a passenger version.

[Henderson]

And you interestingly appreciated, I would say competently. What is 900W?

[Wedmak]

Do you like to find fault with words? Arrange on shelves? Have you guessed it yourself? For an aircraft weighing 2.5 kg, in order to move to 55 meters, it was necessary to spend electricity in the amount of 900 W / h. This is what they mean when talking about the energy spent and indicating it in watts. Given that the efficiency of the 2,4% engine, it turns out that more 90% of the power flows into useless work.

[Henderson]

Quote: Wedmak

I had to spend electricity in the amount of 900 W / h.

The article was not talking about W / h. A watt is a unit of measurement of power, but not the amount of energy. At first the journalist was raped, and then you came up with it even more.

[Alstorm]

From my point of view, in this news, the aircraft is considered as a consumer of electric energy, which spent 12 watts in 900 seconds. What is a watt?
1 Watt is defined as the power at which 1 joule of work is done in 1 second of time.

In fact, the quantities are one and the same. The difference is only in units of time. Second or hour. If you really want 900 watts in 12 seconds, that's about 0,02 watts per hour.

I think everyone can recalculate it into values ​​convenient for him. Do not scold the author of the text so immediately.

[Henderson]

Quote: AlStorm

If you really want 900 watts in 12 seconds, that's about 0,02 watts per hour.

Quote: Wedmak

I had to spend electricity in the amount of 900 W / h.

You decide between yourself there first

[Alstorm]

I can not say anything about what the previous commentator wrote. Why he decided that this figure is nothing more than 900 Wh * I do not know.
By the way, I apologize for the inaccuracy, not W / h, but W * h.

I think the following statement will be more correct.
900 W in 12 seconds = 75 W * s
75 W * s = 0,02 W * h (since the plane flew only 12 seconds).
But at the same time, we must understand that if the plane flew for an hour, then it would consume 270 kWh.

In my opinion, the phrase would have sounded more understandable if it looked like this: "An airplane with a capacity of 270 kW * h flew for 12 seconds and consumed 0.9 kW of electricity during this time."

On the website of the MIT Institute there is no information at all about how much electricity the aircraft consumed. (http://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121)

[kasatky]

Quote: AlStorm

I think the following statement will be more correct.
900 W in 12 seconds = 75 W * s

Let me refute you. It will be technically correct: 900 W power consumed for 12 seconds. Which reflects the dimension W * s. Those. You need to multiply, not divide, since you have decided to count something :)

[gridasov]

Our views coincide. And this is a good reason limiting the duration of the process.

[Aibolit]

Quote: Wedmak

If it took 2,5 watts to move 55 kg by 900 meters ... I'm even afraid to present a passenger version.

with 10 and a ride.
but not the point? This is only the beginning, especially on the principle of a propulsion device (not an engine, as a propulsion engine and an propulsion device and an engine)
electro-aerodynamic traction is not created by the nozzle and there are no CS and xenon.
and ionics already in full

[Mountain shooter]

Oh, we do not need this ... Air conductivity varies significantly over a wide range. Aircraft fly not only in "laboratory" conditions. What will happen to this thing in the rain?

[Ace Tambourine]

But nothing interesting ...
In an ionized cloud, an oxygen-hydrogen mixture is formed from raindrops, and another thunder and lightning ...

[Jerk]

Darwin Award will be.
But as a laboratory experience - not bad

[gridasov]

In order to provide sufficient magnetic field strength brought to the wing of the aircraft so that it can fly, and thereby the potential on the wing surface was also correctly distributed,
it is necessary to have a source of such potential. Both in the upper parameter and in the lower one. Therefore, we can either use radioactive material with a high density of potential energy, which needs to be concentrated from linear scattering to linear, or use the method to create the potential of such internal energy in the material. But that’s all
equally, there must be a closed-loop generator, and without moving parts at a modern level, we can do. It must be understood that even with super-radioactive material in hand, it will still have radial dispersion, which must be concentrated in a linear process.

[Dym71]

Mr. Gridasov, did I understand you correctly that American scientists from Massachusetts technological lie?

[gridasov]

Not only do they lie, but they are deeply mistaken in the correctness of the chosen way of resolving the issue. The same can be said about Russian scientists

[Dym71]

Quote: gridasov

They do not just lie, but they are deeply mistaken in the correctness of the chosen way of resolving the issue.

So experience is the son of difficult mistakes ...

Quote: gridasov

The same can be said about Russian scientists

Pan Gridasov, do I understand correctly that Ukrainian scientists managed to avoid this trap?
Дякую

[gridasov]

If I write from Honduras, then I immediately become a Honduran.

[Dym71]

Quote: gridasov

If I write from Honduras, then I immediately become a Honduran.

So you are like Odessa

[gridasov]

I am from Odessa, but I have nothing to do with the ushlepkamt ruined country

[bouncyhunter]

"And you write, devil take you, write!" (c) "Secret fairway" Gerhard von Zwischen

[Pontiffsulyvahn]

Well, yes, the device cannot fly heavier than air! (with)

[Tarhan]

Not only do they lie, but they are deeply mistaken in the correctness of the chosen way of resolving the issue. The same can be said about Russian scientists

"NASA experts tested the X-3 ion engine developed by researchers from the University of Michigan (USA), which set new records for power, thrust and current.
The principle of operation of the X-3 engine is based on the Hall effect, which occurs when a magnetic field acts on moving charged particles - for example, gas ions. In this case, the ions deviate from their trajectory, due to which a current arises perpendicular to the main direction. This creates additional traction and allows to achieve high consumption of xenon, which is used as ionized gas.
An ion thruster with a diameter of one meter weighs 227 kilograms and is equipped with three plasma exit channels, which makes it possible to reduce its size compared to single-channel thrusters. The X-3 is powered by the XR-100 electric propulsion system developed by the American company Aerojet Rocketdyne. In the process in a vacuum chamber, the engine demonstrated a power of more than 100 kilowatts and a thrust of 5,4 Newtons "

[gridasov]

We make everything much simpler. A rotor with blades shaped like an induction coil in which a rotating magnetic flux dominates from the proportions of the form pumps ordinary air or water. Moreover, the formed channels can be in any number. In these channels, the flow is converted in such a way that its kinetic energy is converted into potential energy increasing along the motion vector to the periphery. Moreover, the higher the rotational speed of the rotor with the blades, the higher the ionization of the discharge surface or blades. Moreover, in these blades and at the same time induction devices, the magnetic flux plus rotational magnetic moment increases according to the radial principle, which increases the flow rate and, accordingly, ionization processes Therefore, on the periphery of the rotor we observe the effect of sonoluminescence, since the potential energy of the flow substances in the low radial pressure region causes this effect, but the edges of the blades with the highest voltage potential plus the ultra-high current strength caused by the radial rotation of the blade create coronary pulses. All this in a medium of sonoluminescent or cavitation state of the flow. Moreover, this area, which can be called reactor and has a radial explosive impulse, with this design and directs it tangentially in the direction of rotation of the rotor. So we have in one device a reactor for converting the kinetic energy of a stream of ordinary air or water into potential energy and subsequently realized as in a detonation, ion, nuclear or pulsed engine. We have a variable magnetic flux generator, which means a generator of very high frequency characteristics. Please note that these are not simple amplitude-frequency modulations. And we have a mover because we work with the parameters of the productive flux and mass rejection. Each of these qualities of the device can be strengthened by dominants towards reactor, generator or propulsion. At the same time, it can be a device with a closed reverse process. I am not writing about the use of various materials and about the methods implemented at the inlet of the stream and the exit from the device and it is also very important

[g1washntwn]

It is necessary to decipher scientific slang.
As a scientific experiment, this experiment has not confirmed anything new. An attempt to improve the results of previous experiments was partially successful due to the erroneous initial theory and the limitations imposed by the current scientific and technological level.

[gridasov]

The scientific, technical and technological level allows us to make a breakthrough. And of course, this changes the foundations of theoretical approaches. I would even say allows you to penetrate the depths of processes and coordinate them

[Aibolit]

Quote: gridasov

it will still have radial dispersion, which must be concentrated in a linear process

Something you reminded me of this comrade

Both in the upper parameter and in the lower one. Therefore, we can either use radioactive material with a high potential energy density

a formula for the density of potential energy, of the object you are broadcasting about, can you give to the studio?

thereby the potential on the wing surface

WHAT potential?
potential flow rates? pressure? electrostatic field?

[gridasov]

You can’t imagine with your imagination that when we say that the plane has become on the wing, it is in contact with its entire area with the area of ​​the air medium in different flows. But at the same time, with an area of！ But since the aircraft is standing on the wing, that is, magnetic interaction. Here, determine what is the interaction potential of magnetic fluxes as reduced to a single parameter for measuring these various quantities.

[Aibolit]

Quote: gridasov

the plane has become on the wing, then it comes into contact with its entire area with the area of ​​the air medium located in flows of different dynamics. But at the same time, the area！

Let's start with the fact that ... mmm ... the wing of an aircraft is not a "plane", but a volumetric body (therefore, aircraft fly). And of course, airplanes do not fly because their wing (s) "rest" on something.

Quote: gridasov

in various dynamics of flows. But at the same time, the area！

Quote: gridasov

what is the interaction potential of magnetic fluxes as reduced to a single parameter for measuring these various quantities.

see above

[gridasov]

You see, but for the analysis of complex and highly dynamic processes, directed in different directions and in different dynamics, we use a method built on a function of a constant value of a number. That is, the obvious problem is not solved by the method of constructing a mathematical sequence through formulas and equations, but an inextricable mathematical space is constructed with the entire totality of possible variable events. And according to the algorithm of each process, all their parameters are coordinated. This allows you to simultaneously analyze many processes as coordinated. Therefore, it is somewhat difficult to understand me because there are not enough words that can explain such capacious information connections and processes. In general, turn on intuition and catch the point. So it will be easier to understand me

[Aibolit]

You see, but for the analysis of complex and highly dynamic, multi-directional and in different dynamics processes, we use a method built on a function of a constant value of the number

methods of approximation and completion of functions:

Math splines originate from thin flexible rods that draftsmen used to draw smooth curves through given points. The rod was fixed at points (ix, iy) and took the shape of a curve y (x) with a minimum "tension energy" proportional to ∫ '' 2 y dx. If we go to the mathematical description of the spline, then the spline function of degree k with connection points 0 x <1 x <... <nx will be the function y (x), which on the segment [0 x, nx] has continuous derivatives up to k-1 inclusive and on each of the intervals [i - 1 x, ix] is equal to a polynomial of degree k. In what follows, we will be interested only in cubic splines (k = 3). Such a spline ensures coincidence at the nodes with the original function and the continuity of the first and second derivatives at the connection points. First of all, the first derivatives are determined at all connection points. A tridiagonal system of n-1 equations with a dominant main diagonal is solved. It can be solved by setting two boundary conditions. The programs included in the Grafor allow you to specify four types of boundary conditions: a) the values ​​of the first derivatives at the ends of the mesh are known ('0 y,' ny); b) the values ​​of the second derivatives at the ends of the mesh are known ('' 0 y, "ny); c) when constructing a periodic spline, the values ​​of the function at the first and last points coincide, as well as '0 y =' ny and '' 0 y =" ny ; d) if the boundary conditions are not specified, then it is considered that '' 0 y = "ny = 0. After the tridiagonal matrix (or augmented tridiagonal matrix in case c)) and the vector of free terms are constructed, the system of equations can be solved. for solving such a system, there is an effective algorithm, which in the domestic literature is called the sweep method. As a result of solving the system of equations, the vector of first derivatives' iy at the connection points is obtained. Now the value of y (x) for i − 1 x ≤ x ≤ ix is ​​determined from the polynomial y ( x) = ai 3 x + bi 2 x + icx + di,

The SPLINE program (X, Y, U, N, A, B, C, D, KODE, IER) calculates the cubic coefficients
spline. Along the way, the values ​​of the first derivatives at the points are calculated (if not specified)
connections. The program has the following parameters:
X, Y, U - vectors of values ​​of the argument, function and first derivatives (length N);
N is the number of points;
A, B, C are the coefficient vectors of the cubic polynomial for variables 3
x, 2
x and x
(length N);
D is the vector of free terms of the cubic polynomial (length N);
KОDE - a sign of setting boundary conditions:
KODE = -2 - the second derivatives are set at the ends of the mesh; before calling the program "
1 y and "
ny
must be entered respectively in D (1) and D (N),
KODE = -1 - the first derivatives are set at the ends of the mesh; before calling the program '
1 y and '
ny
must be entered respectively in D (1) and D (N),
KODE = 0 - boundary conditions are not specified, which is equivalent to "
1 y = "
ny = 0,
KODE = 1 - a periodic spline is specified, i.e. '
1 y = '
ny and "
1 y = "
ny
KОDE = 2 - the vector of the values ​​of the derivatives U is completely specified;
IER - error code; this code for the SPLINE program is in transit and is transmitted in
the form in which it is received in the TRIDIG subroutine.
The coefficients A (I), B (I), C (I) and D (I) correspond to the interval from X (I) to X (I + 1), I = 1, ..., N-1.
The SPLINT program (X, N, A, B, C, D, Y, M) allows you to calculate the cubic spline values ​​on
uniform grid with a given step. Program Parameters:
X is the vector of argument values ​​(length N);
N is the number of points;
A, B, C - cubic spline coefficient vectors for 3 x, 2 variables
x and x
(length N);
D is the vector of free terms of the cubic spline (length N);
Y is the vector of cubic spline values ​​(length M);
M is the number of nodes of the uniform grid on the segment [X (1), X (N)].
well, etc.
I HOPE YOU GOT WHAT I MEANT?
===================
my advice to you (excuse me) go to graduate students to Victor Petrik

imagine a long fishing line under the asphalt. The wave self-organizes and self-compacts around a given object. Standing wave. Do not try to understand anything! To understand is not real! And as soon as you attract knowledge, there will be a misfire ... nothing will come of it!

It’s on the right (you know the rest, except for the young man: embezzlers, bribe takers, destroyers of the country, liars, who are disgusting in the Church of God, but speak smoothly)

[mashinist]

The fact that you distort everything, do not distort))))))
But seriously, well done that they work with such technologies ... the Wright brothers' plane was also primitive and to think that from this in 60-80 years passenger planes with turbojet engines would appear that would cover thousands of kilometers were also difficult. I am glad that ours also work with these technologies, albeit for space.

[gridasov]

And no one even says that they are well done or stupid. But this topic is not discussed. Solutions — specific and accurate — are needed to plan the correct and effective development of the process and produce results. Americans or Russians have such a plan？ No, no, because an increase of 1.4 percent is not a systematic development and making the following percentages is much more difficult. We are talking about specific and reasonable and understandable processes and specific devices with incredible prospects.

[mashinist]

Here everyone laughs from the fact that this is not serious! And it’s stupid to criticize such a primitive technique on which fundamental technologies are being worked out (as if the Wright brothers’ plane had criticized that he couldn’t take 300 people and fly across the ocean and try to explain the reasons for this), and it would end up with catching up with reusable steps electric cars at the mask. It’s not just a journalist’s theoretical idea, it’s a real experience with a real result, and so far it’s not possible to build a plane primitively tomorrow, but damn it was able to fly into the air and fly 55 meters! Something tells me that cars, skateboards, etc. as in the film, the Americans will begin to do back to the future, not us.

[gridasov]

I think that the situation with Mask looks a little different. The mask was stimulated by money, believing that this would give an impetus to the emergence of new scientific and technical solutions in the creation of new electric motors and electric energy storage systems. But this did not happen for objective reasons. Firstly, the motors on the printing rotors themselves still need to create a rotating magnetic flux. This means that completely new principles of their operation must be applied from the stator windings. There is no knowledge of how to create a rotating magnetic field in fundamentally new induction devices, there is no output. Moreover, new induction devices will allow to combine both the generator and the consumer with the output torque in one technical device. In general, without a new electric engine there is no breakthrough and will not be. I'm not talking about improperly located batteries and what they create, or rather form a cumulative magnetic field that creates voltage nodes and corresponding problems. In general, there are many questions, which means that they must first be coordinated, and not solved individually.

[mashinist]

The problem is that Tesla travels and is sold, but we have nothing of the kind. and it’s not even the tesla itself, but the fact that you don’t have to laugh with them ... I’m saying it’s good that we are just working with such technology

[Setrac]

Quote: mashinist

The problem is that Tesla travels and is sold, but we have nothing of the kind.

And we have nothing of the kind and we don't need it. While electricity is generated by burning chemical fuel, all these "Teslas" are just useless dregs and will not lead to anything good.

[mashinist]

Firstly, technologies are already being developed on a serial model, secondly, they are the first to be prestigious, thirdly, it is more efficient to put a filter on a thermal power station than to pollute the air from each machine with carcinogens (even at Euro 5), and not all electricity from a thermal power station is much from a hydroelectric power station, nuclear power plant, windmills etc.

[Setrac]

Quote: mashinist

First, technologies are already being developed on a serial model

The technologies have been worked out for a long time, there is no electricity for electric vehicles. The total capacity of all cars in the world exceeds the total capacity of all power plants by half.

Quote: mashinist

secondly it's prestigious they are the first

They are not the first, but prestigious - this is a Ferrari and not an electric car.

Quote: mashinist

thirdly, it is more efficient to put a filter on a thermal power plant than to pollute the air from each machine with carcinogens (even at Euro 5)

Minus the efficiency of the power plant, minus the efficiency of the power grid, minus the efficiency of the battery of an electric vehicle - immediately burning fuel in an internal combustion engine of a car is much more environmentally friendly and cheaper.

Quote: mashinist

and not all electricity from the CHP is much from hydroelectric power stations, nuclear power plants, windmills, etc.

Yes, not all, but most. Electricity is generated from CHP more than from other power plants combined.
We will not see electric vehicles until a breakthrough with thermonuclear energy occurs.

[mashinist]

The technologies have been worked out for a long time, there is no electricity for electric vehicles. The total capacity of all cars in the world exceeds the total capacity of all power plants by half.

So electric cars will not appear in no time, the stage is transitional, but they are well done, and we twist the bolt in the mouth. And the technologies are being improved here, one comrade said that the tesla was not placed correctly because of this there is a negative effect + some other problems with the polarity of the dviglov, this is worked out, and this experience does not go to waste

They are not the first, but prestigious - this is a Ferrari and not an electric car.

Ferrari is chic, and an electric car is prestigious it is fashionable this is something new

Minus the efficiency of the power plant, minus the efficiency of the power grid, minus the efficiency of the battery of an electric vehicle - immediately burning fuel in an internal combustion engine of a car is much more environmentally friendly and cheaper.

I did not understand what relation efficiency has to environmental friendliness, if a filter at a thermal power plant is possible, but they are not installed on a car. I have a road and tin air outside the window; how heavy it is; you don’t have to convince me otherwise

Yes, not all, but most. Electricity is generated from CHP more than from other power plants combined.
We will not see electric vehicles until a breakthrough with thermonuclear energy occurs.

I thought it’s beautiful for you to spread out about the fact that there are 54 nuclear power plants in the USA and they can do it, but I went to https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1 % 82% D1% 80% D0% BE% D1% 8D% D0% BD% D0% B5% D1% 80% D0% B3% D0% B5% D1% 82% D0% B8% D0% BA% D0% B0_ % D0% A1% D0% A8% D0% 90 and they were surprised at their plans until the year 40 coal and gas more than 60% although other sources will also grow up.

[Setrac]

Quote: mashinist

I did not understand what relation efficiency has to environmental friendliness, if a filter at a thermal power plant is possible, but they are not installed on a car.

Per unit of electricity delivered to an electric vehicle, more fuel is needed and, accordingly, more harm, and at power plants there are no filters in the same way as on cars.

Quote: mashinist

I thought it’s beautiful for you to spread out about the fact that there are 54 nuclear power plants in the USA and they can do it, but I went to https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1 % 82% D1% 80% D0% BE% D1% 8D% D0% BD% D0% B5% D1% 80% D0% B3% D0% B5% D1% 82% D0% B8% D0% BA% D0% B0_ % D0% A1% D0% A8% D0% 90 and they were surprised at their plans until the year 40 coal and gas more than 60% although other sources will also grow up.

I just like you found similar data with "faith in a bright future", this is still fine in the United States with other power plants, unlike many other countries.

Quote: mashinist

I have a road and tin air outside the window; how heavy it is; you don’t have to convince me otherwise

To electrify vehicles, you need to make a contact network, sort of like on the railway, but then again - where to get so much energy?

[mashinist]

Per unit of electricity delivered to an electric vehicle, more fuel is needed and, accordingly, more harm, and at power plants there are no filters in the same way as on cars.

Yes, but more than 1/3 of the electricity in Russia is hydro and nuclear, and cars are all fuel

To electrify vehicles, you need to make a contact network, sort of like on the railway, but then again - where to get so much energy?

Nah, so the losses will be big, there simply won't be enough batteries on the railway, and in a Nissan car, for example, the bodice is very cool and they are already earning on a new-fangled trend and even investing in the development of advanced green technologies of the future so it is presented ... and you By the way, they launch electric buses, also rechargeable and even Kalashnikov did not hear an electric car testing on the basis of a Muscovite? but this is only a prototype, and with our science it was possible to take out a piece of the pie first and is proud that we not only do great science and technology far away, but for people ... where is our yotophone? all in one place ... True, the young man is doing his best and released a column with Alice and swung his hands on the phone following the example of Google and saw an unmanned vehicle (more precisely, unmanned piloting technology)

[Setrac]

Quote: mashinist

Yes, but more than 1/3 of the electricity

One third is so small.

Quote: mashinist

Nah, so the losses will be big

We are waiting for a breakthrough in ITER.

[atesterev]

And to cram a hefty turbogenerator inside ... So it seems an airplane flying in the dark in a cloud of corona discharges!

Like that.

[gridasov]

But in fact, you are right. That is exactly what the crown from the engine nozzle should look like

[atesterev]

Where there is high voltage, there must be corona discharges!

[MoJloT]

It’s not very suitable for democracy, where are the suspension for cluster bombs, where can the napalm tanks hang ...

[HMR333]

grandmas sawing!

[rocket757]

If you suffer for a long time. whatever happens.
Do, experiment NECESSARY! Great discoveries are also made in this way.

[voyaka uh]

The idea now: to create a drone reconnaissance, which does not need to land to recharge. You launch it once: and it has been in the air for months, transmitting information. One way to recharge: a laser from the ground.
Another: solar energy. But this ionic method is no worse.

[g1washntwn]

So far, with such an efficiency, he eats more than he works and the wind will wear it, as well as meteorological probes. A laser from the ground above someone else’s territory or even from a satellite is too far away and goodbye stealth. Solar energy is not available at night, there are no storage devices with the required capacity until dawn. Futurism in one word.

[voyaka uh]

The laser is already using. Over its base, the drone makes circles and is continuously recharged from the ground. The advantages are that there is no troublesome take-off and landing. Operators change in shifts, and the drone is always in the air. The electric motor is almost silent.
A scientific drone with solar panels has already circled the globe. But there is no such military yet.
So almost everything is not futurism, but practice. Experimental models are trying to adapt to the requirements of the military.

[gridasov]

The military and everyone need not only specific products at the level of breakthroughs. They need solutions that have a future and as far as possible. Farther so as not to start all over from the beginning. These are the solutions we are positioning. This will load a huge layer of scientists to work in an adjustable direction. Nothing breaks and does not collapse. We are moving harmoniously forward in development. Obvious and effective itself will prevail. Home

[poquello]

Quote: voyaka uh

The laser is already using. Over its base, the drone makes circles and is continuously recharged from the ground. The advantages are that there is no troublesome take-off and landing. Operators change in shifts, and the drone is always in the air. The electric motor is almost silent.
A scientific drone with solar panels has already circled the globe. But there is no such military yet.
So almost everything is not futurism, but practice. Experimental models are trying to adapt to the requirements of the military.

"to adapt to the requirements of the military" is a nuclear power plant on the 9M730, and not these tricks with dubious benefits

[Topgun]

such drones are already on the way (https://ichip.ru/dron-na-solnechnykh-batareyakh-provel-v-vozdukhe-26-dnejj.html)(which will be solar-powered in the sky for months), here is the mover without moving parts, that is, in the future, it will be able to be in the air for years (the weak link on which will depend on how long (without maintenance) it will be able to be in the air in the air - the motor already disappears)

[gridasov]

These are all idealized plans. Reality is more contrasting in changing flight conditions.

[thinker]

this is the first aircraft that could fly into the air with an engine that does not have moving parts

Which climb, catapult zapululi

[tractor driver]

and pulled on the fishing line))

[igorbrsv]

. . Because of this, the acceleration and deceleration of the ship is very slow, which makes them an inconvenient means of delivering people to Mars or other planets

And what will he ionize in space?

[gridasov]

Absolutely right. In space, using a closed loop conversion of ordinary water, it is possible to generate an extremely powerful potential of electronic magnetic energy, which is displayed on the surface of the aircraft and thereby forms an interaction with the gravitational potential of the planets. Plus, all energy supply is carried out in this way. Nothing goes anywhere, but is converted from one state to another. But！ It is very quickly converted.

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

while spending about 900 watts of electricity
"The housekeeper did vodka" Article humanist wrote.

[Kunica]

Alkash Petrovich, falling from the 15th floor, also stayed in the air for 12 seconds

[ZVS]

Do not emit exhaust fumes? Ask the doctors what ionized air is for a person. This same deadly gas in high concentration is deadly to humans.

[gridasov]

Not gas, but water. Water is in its new molecular configuration. Water is why the strongest solvent is？ Because it has an incredibly large variety of multipolar configurations that form bonds with other molecules. For children, it is H2O. In reality, it is the most complex dynamic system in its state. Moreover, we know very little about light Water. And in this regard, the technology of reproduction of Water of various configurations and properties may be a more important subject of study than all that is said here.

[Aibolit]

Quote: gridasov

After all, why is the strongest solvent？

The strongest (household, which you can freely buy) solvent 646 (Toluene - 50%, ethanol - 15%, butanol 10%, acetone - 7%, ethyl cellosolve - 8%, amyl or butyl acetate - 10%).
The water did not "stand" next to him, tk. it dissolves film-forming agents based on: epoxy, organosilicon, urea-formaldehyde, cellulose nitrate and others. mixtures.
These

also "cooler" Н2О

H2O is a universal solvent, but weak. But the cheapest.
I. Kunkel:

If alkagest dissolves all bodies, then it will dissolve and the vessel in which it is contained; if he dissolves flint, then he will turn into a liquid and a glass retort ...

[gridasov]

Sorry, but you are not trivial to take into account the time parameters. Water in its reverse transformation for thousands of years can affect basalts and hard rocks to wash and dissolve them. Open a bottle of acetone and how long it will be in its state

[Aibolit]

Quote: gridasov

Sorry, but you do not take into account time parameters

Sorry, but you do not petrit in words, with the word "strong", in particular

Quote: gridasov

Why is water strongest solvent?

about the "temporary parameters" there is no gu-gu

Comes from praslav. * silnn (jь), from cat. among other things occurred: dr. strong, strong, derivative adj. with suf. -nn from praslav. * sila

Quote: gridasov

Open a bottle of acetone and how long it will be in its state

if the bottle will be approximately 1 km ^ 386 (and weighing 000 × 000 ^ 3 tons), namely the same amount of water on the ground.
Then acetone is also

Quote: gridasov

for thousands of years it can affect basalts and hard rocks to wash and dissolve them

.
And I assure you, I will dissolve everything.
and if you take a bottle of water,

Quote: gridasov

Open the bottle

...
then in a month it (water) will not remain, especially in the summer or in Egypt.

[gridasov]

Someone argues. You think correctly.

[Aibolit]

Quote: gridasov

Someone argues. You think correctly.

THE ONLY HEALTHY THOUGHT

[Reader 2013]

About such ionic planes, in the "Technology of Youth" in 1970 I read and considered pictures

[SlavaS]

2.5 kg, on wings 4m., His own breeze will blow away

[snake]

Empire strikes back. This is what the Americans want: the TIE Fighter, an imperial star fighter on ion engines