He was lowered only twice ... History of St. Andrew's flag

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St. Andrew's flag - historical symbol of the Russian naval fleet. As you know, it is a white panel with the St. Andrew's cross - two diagonal stripes of blue color, forming an inclined cross. In the distant 1699, Peter I approved the St. Andrew flag as a banner of the Russian fleet. Why did he decide to choose this symbol?

Apostle Andrew the First-Called, one of the twelve disciples of Jesus Christ, was, according to legend, crucified precisely on an oblique cross. Apostle Andrew went with a sermon in a number of countries that fell to him by lot. Andrei the First-Called preached in Bithynia, Ponte, Thrace, Macedonia, Thessaly, Hellas, Achaia and Scythia. He became the first preacher of Christianity on the Black Sea coast, while his sailors and fishermen listened.



He was lowered only twice ... History of St. Andrew's flag


The authorities greeted him very unfriendly, and in Sinop he was subjected to cruel torture. It is believed that the apostle visited the territory of modern Abkhazia, Adygea and Ossetia, and then returned to Byzantium, where he also continued his sermon, founded the Church. Then Andrew the First-Called was captured and died in the city of Patras, in the territory of Greece. Oblique cross, which became the instrument of execution of St. Andrew the First-Called, in memory of the apostle was nicknamed St. Andrew's. At the place where Andrew was crucified, the source was scored. Now in Patras there is a very beautiful cathedral of St. Andrew the First-Called, dedicated to the apostle.

The birth of a flag with an oblique cross is associated with the events of later centuries. In 832, the Scots and Picts of Scotland fought the Angles. King Angus II made a vow that if his army of Scots and Picts won, he would declare Apostle Andrew the First Called Patron of Scotland. And indeed, the victory over the Angles was won, which convinced the Scots and the Picts - they were helped by Andrew the First-Called. The flag of Scotland was a white oblique cross on a blue cloth.

When the personal union of England and Scotland was concluded in 1606, the oblique cross became a component of the flag of the unified state. He is present on the national flag of the UK, if we look closely, and now.

Did this flag affect Peter I? Most likely, for England by that time was already a serious maritime power, one of the strongest in the world. On the other hand, Andrew the First-Called was also considered the patron of Russia. There was a legend that he allegedly traveled around the lands where the Russian state subsequently appeared, and preached the teachings of Christ here. Of course, this is only a legend. After all, the oldest set of 1039 of the year and the Starting set of 1095 of the year, “Reading about Boris and Glebe”, declare that the apostles of Jesus Christ did not go to Russia. Nevertheless, from the XI century, the Apostle Andrew the First-Called was considered the patron saint of the Russian land. Therefore, the choice of Peter was quite reasonable and, moreover, very accurate.

Peter I perfectly understood the significance of symbols for strengthening the unity of the state, for raising the morale of the army and navy. But they needed such symbols that would make any Russian person be in awe of them. The characters associated with the saints were best suited for this role. Andrei Pervozvanny was one of the most revered Christian saints in Russia, and Peter understood this very well when in 1699 he approved a flag with a blue oblique cross on a white cloth with the flag of the Russian fleet.

It is known that the emperor, who paid great attention to the construction and strengthening of the fleet, personally worked on the sketch of the new flag. He tried at least eight options. They tried to use them as sea flags, until in 1710, the sovereign did not stop the choice on the final version - the same white flag with a blue oblique cross. However, only the 1720 Charter of the Year defined the exact characteristics of the flag - “The flag is white, there is a blue St. Andrew’s cross, which he christened Russia with”.



Already in the XVIII century, St. Andrew’s flag was covered with the glory of sea battles, in which Russian fleet ships participated under it. Numerous Russian-Turkish wars, expeditions to faraway countries - all this took place for the fleet under the flag of St. Andrew. Naturally, the sailors veneration of the St. Andrew's flag has become a real tradition. He became the main shrine of the Russian naval sailor, his pride.

Usually, the flag of St. Andrew raised above the ships was a four-meter-high cloth. This size was not accidental - a large banner in the wind made a noise that frightened the enemy and was a kind of psychological weapons. One can imagine how the St. Andrew's banners of the Russian squadrons, which included a large number of ships, "roared"! Indeed, the enemy was not at all frightened by such an awesome roar.



With the development of the Russian fleet, its participation in all new and new wars, the St. George Admiral's flag was adopted in 1819, which was the same St. Andrew's flag, in the center of which was a red heraldic shield, and on it was an image of St. George the Victorious, considered one of the patrons of the warriors of the Russian Land. To receive such a flag to the ship's crew was considered a great honor. He was awarded for special military merit, for example - for the courage shown in defending the flag of St. Andrew during a naval battle.

By the way, St. Andrew’s flag as the shrine of the fleet was supposed to protect not for life, but for death. The sailors died, but refused to lower the sacred symbol of the Russian fleet. Only twice in history did Russian ships voluntarily lower the St. Andrew flag. The first time it was 11 on May 1829 of the year. During the next Russo-Turkish war, the Rafail frigate, commanded by the captain of the 2 rank, Semyon Stroynikov, collided with a Turkish squadron of 15 ships. The captain did not want his sailors and officers to die, so he decided to lower the flag and surrender the ship.

Emperor Nicholas I was very jealous of military glory. Therefore, when it became aware of an act disgraceful to the fleet, the frigate Raphael was ordered, if it were suddenly captured by Russian sailors, to be burned. Captain 2 rank Semyon Stroynikov was demoted to simple sailors, deprived of awards and titles. The emperor forbade Semyon Stroynikov to marry so that he would not give Russia a “cowardly offspring”. True, by that time Semyon Stroynikov was already the father of two sons. And what is interesting, they did not just enter the naval service, but both of them rose to the rank of rear admiral.

As for the frigate “Rafail”, it was really befell the fate prescribed by Emperor Nicholas I. After 24, after its surrender to the Turks, during the Battle of Sinop, the frigate was burned. The order of the emperor was executed by the famous admiral Pavel Nakhimov. The name "Raphael" was forbidden to give ships of the Russian fleet forevermore.

The second sad story occurred during the Tsushima battle. Then the Second Pacific Squadron, faced with the superior forces of the Japanese fleet, was forced to capitulate. Rear Admiral Nikolai Ivanovich Nebogatov, who served as the junior flagship of the squadron and replaced the wounded commander of Vice Admiral Rozhestvensky, decided to surrender. He also hoped to save the lives of the remaining officers and sailors. St. Andrew’s flags were lowered on ships that surrendered to the Japanese.

Rear Admiral Nebogatov, who decided to surrender the squadron, managed to save the lives of 2280 Russian sailors - officers, conductors and sailors. All these were living people - someone's fathers, brothers, sons. But such a unique act of the admiral was not appreciated by the staff commanders in St. Petersburg and the authorities of the Russian Empire, who considered concern for the preservation of the lives of their subordinates as banal cowardice. When, after the Portsmouth Peace, Rear Admiral Nebogatov was released from captivity and returned to Russia, he was deprived of officials, put on trial, and in December 1906 was sentenced to death. But by higher decree, the sentence to the rear admiral was replaced with a ten-year imprisonment in the fortress, and after 25 months he was released, having received a pardon.

But there was a third case in the history of the Russian fleet, when St. Andrew’s flags were lowered on Russian ships. In 1917, the flag of St. Andrew’s ceased to be the flag of the Russian fleet, and in 1924, it was voluntarily lowered on ships of the Russian squadron in the port of Bizerte on the African coast of the Mediterranean Sea. This was due to the fact that France, which then owned the port of Bizerte, officially recognized the Soviet Union and, therefore, the Russian ships were simply forced to obey the orders of the French colonial authorities.

One very interesting story is connected with the revolutionary events and the St. Andrew’s flag. In 1920, the minesweeper Kitobo, commanded by Estonian lieutenant Oscar Fersman, left Estonia for fear of being captured by the Bolsheviks. The commander of the minesweeper ordered to raise the flag of St. Andrew, then headed through Europe towards the Crimea, intending to join the forces of Baron Wrangel.

However, when 27 February ship arrived in Copenhagen, where the British squadron was located, its command ordered Fersman to lower the flag of St. Andrew. The commander of the British squadron stressed that London no longer recognizes the flag of St. Andrew. But Lieutenant Fersman refused to obey the orders of the British, emphasizing that he was ready to engage in an unequal battle, although his ship had only two guns.

It is likely that this controversial situation would have been resolved by armed conflict and the death of Russian sailors in an unequal collision with the English squadron, but the empress Maria Feodorovna intervened, who by happy coincidence was in Copenhagen at that moment. She appealed to the British leadership and achieved not only further passes for the ship, but also its supply of coal and food. As a result, the Whaler nevertheless reached Sevastopol, and then, with the rest of the Wrangel squadron, retired to Bizerte. This was one of the last battles of the sailors of the old Russian fleet for the holy flag of St. Andrew.

In the Soviet Union, a completely different flag was adopted for the Navy, built on the basis of traditional Soviet symbols - sickle, hammer, red star. In the history of the use of the St. Andrew’s flag, more than seventy years of delay came, overshadowed by very unseemly events. During the Great Patriotic War, the flag of St. Andrew began to use the symbolism of the “Russian Liberation Army” by General Andrei Vlasov, who fought against the Soviet Union on the side of Nazi Germany. St. Andrew’s flag was depicted on the chevrons of the ROA military uniform and the traitors who were wearing it on their hands committed crimes against their own people, serving the Führer, the bloody executioner of the Russian land. However, after the war, knowledgeable people understood perfectly well that Vlasovism could not darken the centuries-long history of the St. Andrew’s flag as a symbol of the heroic Russian fleet.



In January, 1992, the government of sovereign Russia decided to revive the flag of St. Andrew as a symbol of the Navy of the Russian Federation. Thus, a tribute was paid to the centuries-old traditions of the Russian fleet. 26 July 1992 was the last time the flags of the USSR Navy were raised on ships of the Russian fleet, after which the anthem of the Soviet Union was played, to the sounds of which they were lowered and St. Andrew flags were raised instead of the Russian Federation. From this time on, the St. Andrew’s flag is the official flag of the Navy of the Russian Federation and is raised on all ships and vessels belonging to it. Symbols with the St. Andrew’s flag are used in the uniform of the personnel of the Russian Navy.

With all due respect to the flag of the USSR Navy and the heroic deeds that Soviet sailors performed under it during the Great Patriotic War, in military campaigns and post-war operations, one cannot but agree that the return of the St. Andrew's flag as a symbol of the Russian fleet was a true revival of traditions, and today, Russian sailors once again appreciate and love the St. Andrew’s flag, keep him loyal. As the Russian captains said when their ships entered the battle - “God is with us and St. Andrew’s flag!”
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  1. +1
    20 November 2018 05: 57
    "Raphael" ("Fazli-Allah") rotted away and was written off by the Turks. Another ship was destroyed in the Battle of Sinop
    1. +3
      20 November 2018 18: 45
      Quote: Tlauicol
      In the battle of Sinop another ship was destroyed

      But with the same name. There was a command to destroy "Fazli-Allah", "Fazli-Allah" and was destroyed. and whether the one or the other, in the empress's decree nothing is said about this ...
      Only twice in history did Russian ships voluntarily lower the St. Andrew flag.
      A question to the author, why produce false information? Well, more than once have already "burned". You must always tell the truth:
      1. Boat of Peter I - captured by the Swedes, Northern War, 1700
      2. Shnyava “Falk” - captured by the Swedes, 1709
      3. The frigate "Bulinbrook" - captured by the Swedes, 1713
      4. Galley “Confai” - captured by the Swedes, 1714
      5. 32-gun frigate “Endracht” - captured by the Swedes, 1720
      6. 32-gun frigate “Mitau” - captured by the French without resistance, 1734
      7. The frigate "Santorino" - captured by the Turks, 1771
      8. 66-gun ship "Mary Magdalene" - captured with the crew; floating battery number 1 - captured (by the Turks, 1787)
      9. Frigate “Hector” - surrendered to the Swedes upon request; frigate "Yaroslavets" - lowered the St. Andrew flag (1788) in front of the Swedes.
      10. 74-gun ship “Vladislav” - lowered the Andreevsky flag, surrendered to the Swedes (Battle of the Hogland, 1788).
      11. The 26-gun pink “Kildin”, the 24-gun pink “Solombala”, the 38-gun pink without a name and 7 small ships - were captured by the Swedes (Battle of Friedrichgam, 1790).
      12. Lost (captured by the Swedes, surrendered or sunk) during the Rochenshalm battle (1790) 52 ships - among them:
      - frigates “Maria”, “Alexander”, “Constantine” and “Nikolai”;
      - Shebeki “Minerva”, “Belon”, “Proserpine” and “Diana”;
      - half-cheeks “Leo”, “Bear”, “Eagle”, “Dragon”, “Whale”, “Deer”, “Tiger”, “Leopard”, “Lynx” and “Wolf”;
      - half-frames “Bars” and “Leopard”;
      - galleries “Bezdelka”, “Petersburg”, “Tricky”, “Magpie”, “Crow”, “Iver”, “Tikhvin”, “Ustyuzhna”, “Eagle” and “Kulik”;
      - Half-galleys “Clear”, “Handsome”, “Interception”, “Bright”, “Zalet”, “Merry”, “Diligent”, “Span” and “Evil”;
      - Three 8-gun floating batteries;
      - four bombardier boats;
      - Five tug boats under the flag.
      13. 44-gun frigate “Haste”, military transport “Wilhelmina” - captured by the British when parked in Portsmouth (1807).
      14. 19-gun boat “Experience” - captured by the British in the Gulf of Finland (1808).
      15. The squadron of Admiral Senyavin (7 battleships) was interned in England (1808) - the ships lowered the Andreevsky flags.
      16. The battleships "Asia", "St. Praskeva ”,“ Uriel ”and“ Sed el-Bahr ”, also 2 frigates and a corvette in Trieste; frigate, 3 corvettes and 3 brig (including “Alexander”) in Venice - were blocked by the English fleet in harbors and were transferred to the French (1808)
      17. 74-gun ship "Vsevolod" in the Gulf of Finland - captured and burned by the British (1808).
      18. Four iols of the White Sea flotilla - captured by the British (1808).
      19. Two rowing gunboats of the White Sea Flotilla - captured by the British (1809)
      20. A transport ship under the command of M. Gerasimov - captured by the British at Cape Nordkapp (1810), however, then was recaptured by the crew.
      21. The frigate "Raphael" - lowered the St. Andrew flag, captured by the Turks between Trebizond and Batum (1829).
      22. Schooner “Anadyr” and military transport “Sitka” - lowered their flags, captured by the Anglo-French squadron in Avacha Gulf (1854).
      23. The battleships “Retvisan”, “Relight”, “Victory” and “Poltava”; armored cruiser “Bayan”; armored cruiser “Pallas”; the Gaydamak and the Horseman mine cruisers; destroyer “Strong”; mine-layer “Amur”; hospital ship "Angara" - captured by the Japanese in Port Arthur (1905).
      24. Armadillos “Emperor Nicholas I” and “Eagle”; coastal defense battleships “Admiral Apraksin” and “Admiral Senyavin”; destroyer “Bedovy” - they lowered the Andreevsky flags and raised the flags of Japan, surrendered to the Japanese (Battle of Tsushima, 1905). Before the flooding, the Andreevskys lowered and raised Japanese flags the battleship “Sisoi the Great” and the armored cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov”.
      1. +1
        21 November 2018 03: 30
        Quote: svp67
        You must always tell the truth:
        Before the flooding, the Andreevskys lowered and raised Japanese flags the battleship “Sisoi the Great” and the armored cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov”.

        I wonder how it is known that the flag was lowered on "Nakhimov"? The monograph by S. V. Suliga "Armored cruiser" Admiral Nakhimov "" says the following:

        "Shiranui", approaching, raised a signal on the international code: "I suggest the cruiser to pass and lower the stern flag, otherwise I will not save anyone." Captain 1 of rank Rodionov ordered to answer: “I see clearly until half”, and then he shouted to the team: “Save yourself, who can!” Blowing up the cruiser! ”
        On the ship, among those who did not manage to board the boats, panic began. Many rushed overboard with bunks and lifebuoys or belts. In total, 18 people drowned during the evacuation.
        The auxiliary cruiser Sado Maru was approaching,

        on the go lowering the boats. Approaching 500 meters, he stopped, and the captain of the 1 rank of Kamai sent a prize to the Nakhimov, led by the navigator Senior Lieutenant Inuzuka. On board the Nakhimov, there remained only the navigator Lieutenant V. E. Klochkovsky and commander A. A. Rodionov, who gave a conditional signal to the six. However, an explosion did not follow - the last to leave the cruiser, galvaners and miners, considering it already doomed, cut the wires. Michman Mikhailov, after several unsuccessful attempts to close the contacts, seeing the approaching "Siranui", ordered to throw batteries and wires overboard.
        In 7: 50, the Japanese stepped onto the deck of a cruiser slowly sinking into the water and first of all raised their flag on the foremast. Having taken the Nakhimov crew member (including 523 officers) and the returning prize team from the 26 water, the Japanese ship chased new production.
        Hiding in the stern of the ship Rodionov and Klochkovsky after the departure of the Japanese tore off the enemy flag.
        1. +1
          21 November 2018 09: 47
          Yes, there is a lot of such nonsense on this list - when the sunken and subsequently raised ships are declared "captured".
          1. +1
            22 November 2018 04: 26
            Quote: Gopnik
            there is a lot of such nonsense on this list - when the sunken and subsequently raised ships are declared "captured".

            For example, the "captured" minelayer "Cupid".

            The Japanese, without restoring it, simply dismantled it for metal. Although there were plans to commission the ship, Ryongchon (龍川) and Kiso (木 曽) appeared as possible names for the mine layer.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. +3
    20 November 2018 07: 27
    It is wonderful that the St. Andrew flag flies again over the ships of the Russian Navy!
    “God is with us and St. Andrew’s flag!”
    1. 0
      20 November 2018 15: 43
      knowledgeable people, and after the war, perfectly understood that Vlasovism could not overshadow the centuries-old history of the St. Andrew’s flag as a symbol of the heroic Russian fleet.

      -God writes even on crooked lines
  4. +12
    20 November 2018 07: 31
    "Only twice in history have Russian ships voluntarily lowered the St. Andrew's flag."
    For all my love for the Russian fleet, the author is mistaken. At one time, having become interested in this topic, I discovered that there were more such cases, they just were not so "loud". There is such a book - "List of ships of the Russian fleet" Veselago (EMNIP), where all this can be viewed.
    1. +8
      20 November 2018 08: 58
      The title of the article is delusional - it reminded me of "first time not ... sexually alternative." And in all honesty, we can say that we had the most powerful fleet in the 70s - 80s of the 20th century. And he obviously did not go under the St. Andrew's flag.
      1. +3
        20 November 2018 11: 28
        Quote: Serge Gorely
        And honestly, we can establish - the most powerful fleet we had in 70 - 80 - the years of the 20 century.

        Everything is relative. Interesting, and in what it was expressed? and what was the result? zero loop? But the fleet of the Russian Empire was solving geopolitical tasks, and with an exact result.

        Quote: Ilya Polonsky
        Now in Patras there is a very beautiful cathedral of St. Andrew the First-Called, dedicated to the apostle.
        There are also the relics of this Apostle.
      2. +2
        20 November 2018 15: 45
        the most powerful - after 1812 to 1856 (relative to other naval powers)
  5. +3
    20 November 2018 11: 20
    Well, in the heading lies, in the text - pathos, and the author certainly knows better than sailors that they love ...
    And in real life - only small ships can be built. Yes sub.
    1. 0
      20 November 2018 16: 00
      Actually, the ships of the 11350 series cannot be called small and their construction was stalled not through our fault.
      And the future is no longer for battleships and battleships, but for nuclear submarines such as "Borey"
      1. 0
        21 November 2018 08: 58
        Submarines may go down, as alternative detection methods are developing
        And small ships are inconvenient for the open sea and a massive salvo, IMHO
        But it’s convenient to hide in rivers and bays
  6. BAI
    +2
    20 November 2018 13: 12
    1. Stroynikov went on promotion to Raphael from the Mercury brig 2 years before the famous battle. And his son took part in the destruction of "Fazli - Allah" ("Raphael").

    2. The list of ships that lowered the St. Andrew flag in front of the enemy:
    1. Bot of Peter I - captured by the Swedes, Northern War, 1700 (I wonder what kind of boat was shown at the parade this summer?)
    2. Shnyava “Falk” - captured by the Swedes, 1709
    3. The frigate "Bulinbrook" - captured by the Swedes, 1713
    4. Galley “Confai” - captured by the Swedes, 1714
    5. 32-gun frigate “Endracht” - captured by the Swedes, 1720
    6. 32-gun frigate “Mitau” - captured by the French without resistance, 1734
    7. The frigate "Santorino" - captured by the Turks, 1771
    8. 66-gun ship "Mary Magdalene" - captured with the crew; floating battery number 1 - captured (by the Turks, 1787)
    9. Frigate “Hector” - surrendered to the Swedes upon request; frigate "Yaroslavets" - lowered the St. Andrew flag (1788) in front of the Swedes.
    10. 74-gun ship “Vladislav” - lowered the Andreevsky flag, surrendered to the Swedes (Battle of the Hogland, 1788).
    11. The 26-gun pink “Kildin”, the 24-gun pink “Solombala”, the 38-gun pink without a name and 7 small ships - were captured by the Swedes (Battle of Friedrichgam, 1790).
    12. Lost (captured by the Swedes, surrendered or sunk) during the Rochenshalm battle (1790) 52 ships - among them:
    - frigates “Maria”, “Alexander”, “Constantine” and “Nikolai”;
    - Shebeki “Minerva”, “Belon”, “Proserpine” and “Diana”;
    - half-cheeks “Leo”, “Bear”, “Eagle”, “Dragon”, “Whale”, “Deer”, “Tiger”, “Leopard”, “Lynx” and “Wolf”;
    - half-frames “Bars” and “Leopard”;
    - galleries “Bezdelka”, “Petersburg”, “Tricky”, “Magpie”, “Crow”, “Iver”, “Tikhvin”, “Ustyuzhna”, “Eagle” and “Kulik”;
    - Half-galleys “Clear”, “Handsome”, “Interception”, “Bright”, “Zalet”, “Merry”, “Diligent”, “Span” and “Evil”;
    - Three 8-gun floating batteries;
    - four bombardier boats;
    - Five tug boats under the flag.
    13. 44-gun frigate “Haste”, military transport “Wilhelmina” - captured by the British when parked in Portsmouth (1807).
    14. 19-gun boat “Experience” - captured by the British in the Gulf of Finland (1808).
    15. The squadron of Admiral Senyavin (7 battleships) was interned in England (1808) - the ships lowered the Andreevsky flags.
    16. The battleships "Asia", "St. Praskeva ”,“ Uriel ”and“ Sed el-Bahr ”, also 2 frigates and a corvette in Trieste; frigate, 3 corvettes and 3 brig (including “Alexander”) in Venice - were blocked by the English fleet in harbors and were transferred to the French (1808)
    17. 74-gun ship "Vsevolod" in the Gulf of Finland - captured and burned by the British (1808).
    18. Four iols of the White Sea flotilla - captured by the British (1808).
    19. Two rowing gunboats of the White Sea Flotilla - captured by the British (1809)
    20. A transport ship under the command of M. Gerasimov - captured by the British at Cape Nordkapp (1810), however, then was recaptured by the crew.
    21. The frigate "Raphael" - lowered the St. Andrew flag, captured by the Turks between Trebizond and Batum (1829).
    22. Schooner “Anadyr” and military transport “Sitka” - lowered their flags, captured by the Anglo-French squadron in Avacha Gulf (1854).
    23. The battleships “Retvisan”, “Relight”, “Victory” and “Poltava”; armored cruiser “Bayan”; armored cruiser “Pallas”; the Gaydamak and the Horseman mine cruisers; destroyer “Strong”; mine-layer “Amur”; hospital ship "Angara" - captured by the Japanese in Port Arthur (1905).
    24. Armadillos “Emperor Nicholas I” and “Eagle”; coastal defense battleships “Admiral Apraksin” and “Admiral Senyavin”; destroyer “Bedovy” - they lowered the Andreevsky flags and raised the flags of Japan, surrendered to the Japanese (Battle of Tsushima, 1905). Before the flooding, the Andreevskys lowered and raised Japanese flags the battleship “Sisoi the Great” and the armored cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov”.

    https://warhistory.livejournal.com/2485568.html
    1. +10
      20 November 2018 14: 08
      Captured in battle or lowered the flag himself and surrendered - these are two big differences ... The Brest Fortress was also captured by the Germans, but this does not mean that she herself surrendered and “lowered the flag”.
      1. +2
        20 November 2018 15: 53
        I agree: to capture the flag and then lower the flag is a shame, but not degrading, but voluntarily lower the flag is completely different.
        1. 0
          21 November 2018 00: 00
          I agree: to capture the flag and then lower the flag is a shame, but not degrading, but voluntarily lower the flag is completely different.
          ====================================================================== =========
          Excuse me, how do you imagine it at all to capture a SHIP in battle?
          The Brest fortress was captured when all its defenders died (or were seriously injured).
          It was not possible to flood the fortress.
          And if enemies could climb onto the ship, and the crew did not interfere with them, this means that they surrendered themselves and surrendered the ship, although the white flag was not raised.
          By destroyers in 1918. There was not surrender under the threat of death, but a betrayal of the command staff, and it was this - switching to the side of the enemy.
          1. -1
            21 November 2018 01: 52
            Quote: Seamaster
            Excuse me, how do you imagine it at all to capture a SHIP in battle?


            boarding, for example. Or capture the shrunken in shallow water.

            Quote: Seamaster
            The Brest fortress was captured when all its defenders died (or were seriously injured).


            Well, not all, to say the least. 7000 fighters were captured.

            Quote: Seamaster
            By destroyers in 1918. There was not surrender under the threat of death, but a betrayal of the command staff, and it was this - switching to the side of the enemy.


            This is even worse. But in general, if we are talking about “Spartacus” and “Avtroil”, it is the surrender under the threat of death.
    2. 0
      20 November 2018 17: 58
      From this list it is clear that the St. Andrew flag massively descended in front of the enemy and was marked by the use of traitors (Vlasovites). Now it is used by neovlasovtsy (oligarchy of the Russian Federation). But is there such a list for the flag of the USSR Navy?
      1. 0
        20 November 2018 21: 52
        At least two cases ....

        The destroyer Spartak lowered the flag of the RKKF, raised white and surrendered to the British (1918)
        The destroyer “Avtroil” - surrendered to the British without a single shot (1918).
        1. +1
          21 November 2018 12: 32
          I did not speak in vain about the Flag of the Navy of the USSR. Which USSR in 1918?
          1. +1
            21 November 2018 12: 38
            Tady sorry wink Do not quite understand. As for the voluntarily lowered flag of the USSR Navy, there is no information as be. There are several small ships such as torpedo boats, captured, as a rule, by the Finns. But circumstances, alas, are unknown. It is possible to assume that they did not lower the flag, just the crew could no longer resist the enemy. From history, the maximum, I remember, is the destroyer commander, who was one of the first to leave the sinking ship. For which he fell under the tribunal. And even then, without much detail ....
          2. -1
            21 November 2018 13: 06
            And the Soviet Navy practically did not participate in naval battles.
  7. +1
    20 November 2018 13: 48
    Until mid-1932, the Andreev flag (in the guys version) was used in the USSR, with the addition of a red star in the middle.
    I read somewhere that during the Second World War there was a project for the return of the St. Andrew's flag, again, with a red star in the center. It’s a pity that they didn’t do this - the flag would be beautiful
  8. 0
    20 November 2018 17: 58
    Regarding the surrender of the Pacific squadron of Nebogatov: reasons and how it relates to Nebogatov. I would like to read with Andrei from Chelyabinsk. He is a fan of fleet history.
    Apparently, they didn’t report to Nikolai 1 that Stroynikov already had children. Otherwise, Nikolay would have otherwise ordered по
    There is one unreliable but funny bike connected with our tricolor,
    The first Russians in Arkhangelsk were built with the help of the Dutch. And since there was no official flag, they used the Dutch: blue-white-red flag. Upon entering Marseille, the ships were fired upon by French artillery. France was at war with Holland. Then the Russian ambassador to France, Dolgoruky, began to vtulyat: such kind of merchants confused the flag. Needed: white, blue and red. Apparently, the eloquence was supported by gifts and the French "believed". But there were "well-wishers" and made a request from Peter, and Peter supposedly laughed and ordered: "Let it be like this." Of course this is a joke story.
    I was interested in the meaning of the colors of the flag, but I did not find an official interpretation. True, I came across information that with the beginning of the WWI, one of the herald masters proposed this interpretation: a fraternal union of three Slavic peoples: Russians, Belarus and Ukrainians.
  9. +1
    20 November 2018 21: 10
    But the Soviet flag of the naval in the battle did not once lower!
    1. -5
      20 November 2018 21: 30
      depending on what. Red in 1918 went down before the British. And the one that was adopted in 1935 wasn’t anywhere to let down either - the RKKF was more and more sitting out in the bases.
      Whoever fights more, there are all sorts of cases. Here is England, the mistress of the seas and all that, but if you make a list of surrendered English ships, then it will be many times more than Russian.
      1. +2
        21 November 2018 12: 38
        Yeah, the SC "Tuman" and the icebreaker "Sibiryakov" and the minesweeper "Vzryvatel" in the Second World War and other ships of the USSR Navy, of course, sat in the bases, but the flags were not lowered in battle with the enemy, unlike your bulkokhrustny idols.
        1. 0
          21 November 2018 13: 04
          these are isolated cases, and yes, the ships of the USSR Navy were holed up in bases, the intensity of the Soviet fleet's operations cannot be compared with English, German, American, or Japanese. And the fleet was more active in the WWI.
      2. 0
        22 November 2018 06: 07
        Gopnik ... Yes, most likely gopnik ... what to take from the gopnik - the boot is the boot
  10. +3
    21 November 2018 03: 02
    Rear Admiral Nebogatov, who made the decision to surrender the squadron, managed to save the lives of 2280 Russian sailors - officers, conductors and sailors.

    This is not so, let us turn to the statistics of the Russo-Japanese war.
    On the armored cruiser Rurik, 204 people died, died from wounds, drowned (24,8% from the size of the crew), on the coastal defense battleship "Admiral Ushakov" died, died of wounds, 84 people drowned (19,9% of the crew).
    These two ships fought valiantly, exhausted their strength in resistance, and were flooded by the crews.
    What are the reasons to believe that the ships of the Nebogatov detachment should, in the event of the adoption of the battle in the morning of 15 on May 1905, be lost by the dead 100% crew size?