Military Review

What is the "Petrel" for?

95
8 months have passed since the time when Russian President Vladimir Putin presented the latest developments of the military-industrial complex to the general public. However, one of these developments has caused a stir and heated controversy both in the press and in numerous online forums. The name of this development - cruise missile with a nuclear power plant "Petrel".




Of course, the creation of a cruise missile on nuclear warhead, while in reasonable dimensions, is itself a sensation. What led to a hot discussion of new items not only within Russia, but also abroad.

The discussion basically comes down to the following: is it possible to create a nuclear power plant in such dimensions and does it create enough cravings to keep the entire structure in the air? Or maybe it's just a bluff?

But in this article we will not discuss these issues. Suppose that a rocket exists, and it will be put into service in nearby years. Consider the appointment of a rocket.

What is it for, in principle?

Obviously such weapon will not be used in local conflicts, like the Caliber missile in Syria. This is the “Doomsday” weapon that will be used in global thermonuclear conflict. But what advantages does it have over conventional ICBMs and SLBMs? And here are three arguments in favor of the Stormy Petrel.

The first argument: launchers with the Petrel missile can be deployed not only on strategic bombers, but also on automobile tractors and trains, which will ensure mobility and disguise of launchers. At the same time, the “Petrel” can be launched even before the start of the conflict, in this case the rockets can patrol for a long time over the vast uninhabited expanses of the Arctic in anticipation of a command. We can consider the "Petrel" as a weapon of retaliation. But here I want to argue: after all, this function is performed by the submarine fleet and parts of the Strategic Missile Forces, which are armed with the Topol and Yars ground complexes. Their missiles more effectively perform the task. Would it not be wiser to devote resources to the completion of the construction of the Borey-series submarines and the re-equipment of the strategic missile forces units with new Yars soil complexes? After all, today, every penny counts.

The second argument: the “Petrel” rocket levels the enemy's missile defense. Thanks to its unlimited range, the rocket is able to bypass all enemy lines and strike from an unexpected direction. So, the “Petrel” rocket is the answer to the deployment of a missile defense system. But even here I have objections.

First, the new ballistic missiles have the best measures to overcome the enemy missile defense, and the Sarmat missile itself was created as a means of overcoming and leveling the missile defense system. Secondly, ballistic missiles remain a very difficult goal, and there are still no really effective ways to defend against them, but defending against cruise missiles is much easier. Third, the Petrel itself has no advantages over conventional cruise missiles, except for its unlimited range. Just the opposite: in the matter of breaking through the enemy air defense, the Petrel is weak. And he is weak because of his small number. The fact is that valuable targets will be covered by a strong air defense. Ordinary (non-nuclear) cruise missiles take a number, dozens of cruise missiles can be sent to an important and well-guarded target, but in the case of Burevestnik this is not done. The Petrel itself will be few because of its high price and the limited limit of nuclear warheads established under the START III Treaty. Therefore, a small number of “Petrels” will be sent even to an important goal, which calls into question the possibility of completing the task.

The third argument: the Petrel missile has unlimited range and is capable of hitting enemy targets even in the Southern Hemisphere. But here I want to say right away: what is the new global ballistic missile "Sarmat" not suitable for? To defeat such distant targets, you can use submarines, and strategic Aviation.

So why do you really need the Petrel? First, we must answer this question: what is a cruise missile better than a ballistic missile in general? The answer is obvious: it is much more accurate. A cruise missile can have a QUO of the entire 1-2 meter, which is very important for hitting highly protected targets, such as the command bunkers in which the country's top military and political leadership is located.

I present scenarios for the use of “Petrel” missiles like this. In the case of a return by the country's top leadership of an order for a nuclear strike on an enemy country, all means are launched to launch a nuclear strike. The Petrel itself will take many hours to reach enemy territory. By this time, ballistic missiles, which require only forty minutes to hit their targets, will withdraw all air defense weapons. By the time the Petrel reaches the enemy shores, the territory of the enemy will already be ruined. Important military infrastructure (airfields, air defense points, radar stations) will be destroyed, and the path to the target will be cleared for Burevestnik. It turns out that a cruise missile with a nuclear power plant is a weapon in order to finish off the enemy.

However, with the advent of a cruise missile with an unlimited range, there is doubt about the advisability of having strategic aircraft. What is the value of expensive strategic bomber-rocket carriers, when there is a rocket with an unlimited range that does not need such a carrier? This is especially important now, when the Defense Ministry plans to order fifty new Tu-160M. Why are they needed in the presence of such a rocket?

One thing is certain: The Petrel will, by its very appearance, make it necessary to revise plans for waging war.
Author:
95 comments
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 20 November 2018 06: 10
    +11
    "" The Petrel can be launched even before the conflict begins, "Yeah, but if we manage to agree on what to do with the missiles already launched .. And yes, there are targets .. It will not work to cover the missile defense system.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 20 November 2018 06: 26
        +16
        Moscow already shines with all the colors of the rainbow ... Yes, and by the way, did you think before writing this comment?
    2. Titsen
      Titsen 20 November 2018 07: 04
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      "" The Petrel can be launched even before the conflict begins, "Yeah, but if we manage to agree on what to do with the missiles already launched .. And yes, there are targets .. It will not work to cover the missile defense system.


      There are always more questions than answers.

      Especially on a global (global) scale.

      The main thing here is who prepares answers to questions and for whom ...
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 20 November 2018 20: 40
        +6
        Quote: Titsen
        There are always more questions than answers.

        but it’s much easier to defend against cruise missiles.

        I would like to ask the author a question. And at what speed is the Petrel capable of moving? From which Russian vegetable did the author decide that Petrel is a subsonic KR? Moreover, why did he decide that it is easy to detect at all? For missile defense, the Kyrgyz Republic has always been one of the most difficult goals.
        Well, if it hits the line of reasoning like an author, if the Petrel accelerates, say, to the speeds of the Dagger, then how is the author going to intercept it?
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 20 November 2018 21: 33
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          Well, if you hit into the argument, as the author, -

          That was enough for me
          This is especially important now when the Russian Ministry of Defense plans to order fifty new Tu-160Ms. Why are they needed with such a rocket?
          Andrew, hi !
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 20 November 2018 21: 36
            +6
            Quote: Tersky
            Andrew, !

            Vitya hi
            An article from the category of spaceships plowing the expanses of the universe ... and the soul swept into paradise. wassat
            I think about Poseidon something like this will be written soon. At the same time, without knowing the performance characteristics, use strategies, even what kind of knowledge base will stand there ...
            You can just as well talk about UFOs.
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 20 November 2018 22: 07
              +2
              Quote: NEXUS
              You can just as well talk about UFOs.

              We look forward to the next publication, Russia is rich in talents ...
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 20 November 2018 22: 09
                +5
                Quote: Tersky
                We look forward to the next publication, Russia is rich in talents ...

                The triangle will be drunk, let it be a box ... wassat
        2. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 21 November 2018 16: 13
          +2
          Precisely, to listen to the author, in general, apart from the Sarmat, Yars and Topol ballistic missiles, no weapons are needed at all, because they are guaranteed to overcome missile defense and the whole world into dust.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 20 November 2018 07: 39
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      what to do with already launched missiles ..

      Do not pour salt on your wounds when nothing hurts yet! And what do they do with the launched drones when they are going to reuse it? For "enlightenment" you can read on the internet, if it's not clear!
      1. Nikolay73
        Nikolay73 21 November 2018 09: 28
        +1
        One question: -Do you know the principle of action of its mover? If not, is it necessary to try to discuss the ideas of feeding a spherical horse?
    4. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 November 2018 09: 02
      -2
      And if the conflict resolves by itself, then you will have to run around with the nets to catch the ammunition.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 21 November 2018 02: 39
        0
        Quote: gunnerminer
        will have to run around with nets

        Well ... You will need ... you will have to run! Remember the "winged" phrase: "If you want to live, and you will not get it up like that!"
  2. Mih1974
    Mih1974 20 November 2018 06: 17
    +10
    There is one argument that cannot be disputed - this missile is ABSOLUTELY unpredictable either on the trajectory or on the targets. That is, if the enemies have an idea to attack Russia, then you need to protect yourself from a retaliatory strike by imposing a system of radars on Russia, they will more or less know where ballistic missiles are flying (well, they fly up and they can be seen). This, of course, does not guarantee the defeat of their missile defense system, but at least they can try to close the main trajectories of approaching the United States with a sufficiently excessive number of pro-missiles. While the devil who flew away knows where the cruise missile cannot be tracked to a reasonable extent, the Americans are simply not able to create such a global radar tracking system.
    Further more - modern radars "ignore" the target going tangentially to their zone or through it, but yes it was announced after the downed Boeing. That is, our missiles "knowing" where their radars can "seep" tangentially "inside their country" and "stick" there where necessary.
    And here the United States has an unresolvable hemorrhoids — although they are smaller than Russia in terms of territory, they are also huge and they will not be able to pull the Vadnoe inside out even from the inside.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 21 November 2018 16: 14
      -1
      Yes, they have radars on ships and can constantly move, so figs guess where their air defense and missile defense.
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 21 November 2018 19: 29
        +1
        Chusht write - it is precisely the enormous distances of the Earth that make cruise missiles so dangerous - you will never guess where this bastard is flying from. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Americans do not have a continuous radar coverage of the borders (although I may be mistaken). This is an expensive and troublesome business, but it gave a little slack and at the junction of the "zones" slipped at least 10.000 kr over the barrier and scattered further on its targets. Yes, and let's be frank - just the US air defense is gofno. Yes, and in preparation for war in dreams, they will drive everything to Europe.
  3. KCA
    KCA 20 November 2018 06: 28
    +6
    Some reasoning about a spherical horse in a vacuum, nothing is known about the "Petrel", it supposedly has a POISON, but even the principle of its operation is unknown, the speed is unknown, the payload mass is unknown, nothing is known, but some analytics of the expediency of this rocket is already underway , maybe it has a charge of 500 megatons and supersonic speed, or hypersonic with a flight in a plasma cloud, or maybe a layer of armor like a tank and a modern missile defense system for it is simply about nothing, you can fantasize for a long time
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 20 November 2018 07: 02
      +5
      Quote: KCA
      nothing is known about "Petrel",

      There must be a secret at least somehow)))) Or do we all and everything know about all our strategic nuclear forces? Why is he a Petrel? let the adversary's headache about it. And not with you)))))
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 21 November 2018 16: 16
        0
        Yes, the adversary has known everything for a long time, do you think their intelligence is bad, but we have few traitors?
    2. Serjio
      Serjio 20 November 2018 07: 42
      +1
      What this missile obviously has is stealth (like the Kh-101/102) and, obviously, an electronic warfare system. So the argument about "small numbers" is not entirely valid, IMHO.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2018 11: 27
      0
      The principle of operation of the Burevestnik ramjet is rather similar to the engine of the Pluto rocket - only a more miniature version.
  4. SHURUM -BURUM
    SHURUM -BURUM 20 November 2018 06: 28
    0
    At the same time, the Petrel can be launched even before the conflict begins, in this case the missiles can barrage over the vast uninhabited expanses of the Arctic for a long time waiting for the command
    Well, in that case, the one who pre-launches rockets is the aggressor. Moreover, pre-launched missiles have already been sentenced to use. Well, and in the event of a forced self-destruction (like - we changed our minds, scared and enough) - an expensive show with air pollution and the inevitable Nuremberg process.
    1. kotdavin4i
      kotdavin4i 20 November 2018 10: 04
      +6
      Quote: SHURUM-BURUM
      pre-launched rockets already sentenced to use

      So none of us knows what kind of control system the Burevestnik has, a subsonic cruise missile can even lie down on its "belly", and I do not think that the designers did not provide for a return option - since the flight mode is long-term. And about the fuse - and it is quite possibly remotely controlled. Don't make our (your) constructors more stupid than they are ...
    2. asv363
      asv363 20 November 2018 18: 08
      +4
      Quote: SHURUM-BURUM
      Well, in that case, the one who pre-launches rockets is the aggressor.

      It is better to be a living aggressor than a dead victim.

      Quote: SHURUM-BURUM
      Well, and in the event of a forced self-destruction (like - we changed our minds, scared and enough) - an expensive show with air pollution and the inevitable Nuremberg process.

      In addition to the induced radioactivity on the product itself, there will be nothing. From time to time, our long-range aviation aircraft fly along the US coast. What is at the time of the flight of the enemy’s borders in the drum of the same Tu-160 is not known to you reliably. The prosecutor, you see, was found.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 November 2018 02: 33
      +3
      Quote: SHURUM-BURUM
      one who pre-launches missiles is an aggressor.

      1, On the planet every day (or: almost every day), training, experimental, evaluation launches of only (not to mention others) combat missiles are made ... 2. There was (not so long ago ...) a time when V -52 with nuclear bombs on board carried out regular (!) Patrols. And when these bombers took off, no one in the USSR grabbed the "red button"! Watch-watch! But no one fought in a hysterical fit. "Petrels" can be given the status of a patrol patrolling drone (taking into account the duration of the flight) with a contractual obligation to stay only over their territory and not approach the borders at a certain critical distance.
  5. zulusuluz
    zulusuluz 20 November 2018 07: 11
    +3
    fifty new Tu-160M. Why are they needed with such a rocket?
    And what about dropping KABs, or who will launch X-series missiles? Indeed, in addition to the territory of the USA, there is also a maneuvering fleet and many bases on which tactical weapons, not strategic ones, will have to be spent.
    1. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 20 November 2018 18: 28
      +1
      So maybe the Burevestnik is supposed to be launched from the TU-160?
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 20 November 2018 08: 15
    +8
    Honestly, the combat advantages of a vigorous CD are still not completely clear to me! But if the Motherland said: it is necessary, then this "must" we need to comprehend and justify! Are there really few "truly violent minds" in our country? In pervak, of course, this CD "fits" into the concept of a preemptive strike, which is now being briskly talked about in connection with the death of the INF Treaty ... (as "it smells fried", then the vigorous CDs are immediately launched into loitering mode ... if, nevertheless will dissolve at the last moment, then the CD can be returned, using, for example, methods for returning drones ... improved, if necessary.) And a lot of things can be thought of on the secondary! On the basis of this missile launcher, it is possible to create a vigorous unified flying platform (!): 1. AWACS complex, 2. local radio navigation system, 3. repeater, 4. barraging "fighter" with interceptor missiles on board, 5. "Dead Hand" component. ..Add who can!
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 18 February 2019 00: 01
      0
      These missiles are doomsday missiles that will be launched before the exchange of nuclear ballistic missiles. By the time they arrive, there will already be a part of the military bases and cities in ruins, and AWACS with missile defense are unlikely to be as active as in peacetime.

      These missiles will fly and turn the United States into a radioactive desert.
  7. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 20 November 2018 09: 02
    +1
    - “Petrel” will make one reconsider the plans of warfare with its appearance. -

    Maybe. Probably. Then. Like. There is no clear confidence in the possibility of the appearance of the engine for this munition.
    1. asv363
      asv363 20 November 2018 18: 25
      +2
      Experienced and repeatedly "engines" for this product.
  8. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 20 November 2018 09: 35
    0
    What is not clear to the author? Sarmat is a sword, and Petrel is a dagger .... It will be carried by TU-160, including, and they will be launched to completely destroy the mattresses. That is why they are now throwing to the masses the construction of bunkers with a depth of 300 meters.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 18 February 2019 00: 07
      0
      "Petrel" is a slow but inevitable shot to the stomach.

      It will hurt until death, which will come after 6-8-10 hours after the exchange of nuclear attacks with ballistic missiles. By this time, the "Petrel" will fly over and finish off those who were not killed by the "Sarmatians", "Vanguards", "Yars", "Poplar" and "Bulava" with "Sinevaya".
  9. Vadim237
    Vadim237 20 November 2018 09: 59
    0
    Rather, this missile is a kind of safety net if, suddenly, all the bases of strategic missile carriers are destroyed, say from orbit, missiles from the TNPP will replace the function of bombers — they will fly from anywhere in Russia to the enemy themselves.
  10. krizis
    krizis 20 November 2018 10: 11
    +2
    Like Putin’s other novelties, the petrel should increase the uncertainty of the success of the US disarmament first strike. Now we need to destroy not only all SSBNs, mobile and mine ground complexes, but also everything similar to Iskander on earth, and everything capable of launching a missile launcher in its dimensions at sea, at least outside the US air defense zone.
  11. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 20 November 2018 10: 29
    +1
    Over the gray plain of the sea, the wind collects clouds. Between the clouds and the sea the Petrel proudly roars, a black lightning similar.

    Either touching the wing of the wave, then flying up to the clouds with an arrow, he screams and - the clouds hear joy in the bold cry of a bird.

    In this scream - thirst for the storm! The power of anger, the flame of passion and confidence in victory are heard by the clouds in this cry.

    The seagulls moan before the storm - they moan, rush over the sea and are ready to hide their horror before the storm at the bottom.

    And the loons also moan - they, the loons, cannot enjoy the battle of life: the thunder of blows frightens them.

    A stupid penguin (in Serbian) timidly hides a fat body in the cliffs ... Only a proud Petrel flies boldly and freely over the gray-haired sea of ​​foam!
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 November 2018 10: 54
      +1
      It was just a little bit, reinforce the poems with real ammunition on the media.
    2. snake
      snake 21 November 2018 14: 36
      +3
      You quote Gorky quite literally. It must be applied to our times:

      On the gray plain of the sea, NATO AUG collects. Between AUG and Europe, the Petrel proudly flies, similar to black lightning.

      Either touching the wing of the wave, then flying up to the clouds with an arrow, it flies, and - NATO sees its end sadly fast.

      The roar of the engine is a non-peaceful atom! The power of anger, the flame of passion and confidence in victory are heard by NATO in this sound.

      The Yankees moan before the storm, moan, rush about to the sea and are ready to hide their horror at the bottom of it.

      Europeans also groan - they, "cuckolds", cannot enjoy the battle of life: tolerance obscures their eyes.

      Stupid Gunpowder timidly hides his face asleep in Europe ... Only the proud Petrel flies boldly and freely over the gray-haired sea of ​​foam!
  12. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 20 November 2018 11: 38
    -1
    The petrel is the weapon of the first blow. Because the concept of counter-strike is already bursting at the seams. The petrel can be secretly launched from anywhere in our country and unexpectedly hit command posts and headquarters. But the Fields already in mines and airfields.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 18 February 2019 00: 13
      0
      No, this is a weapon of inevitable retribution: "Why do we need such a world if there is no Russia in it."
  13. Operator
    Operator 20 November 2018 12: 42
    +1
    Quote: Puncher
    I suggest to test over Moscow

    Flight tests of the Burevestnik are already planned over your Tel Aviv bully
  14. Operator
    Operator 20 November 2018 12: 55
    -1
    The author correctly pointed out that the "Petrel" will fly to their targets after disabling the enemy's missile defense system with the help of ballistic missile warheads.

    But the idea of ​​using missiles with an unlimited range in another is to set up a cheap means of delivering megaton-class thermonuclear charges to a range that exceeds the rational range of using ICBMs (11-13 thousand km), because if the ICBM is launched at a longer range, the weight of its combat load (number BB) decreases significantly and, accordingly, the damage done decreases.

    Therefore, targets at a distance of over 13 thousand km. it is more rational to hit with the help of "Petrel", and there are enough such targets: Australia, New Zealand, South America, Africa, Asia, Antarctica, the Pacific Islands - ie any remote place where bunkers can be placed to lead countries-potential adversaries (to deprive them of their hope of survival in TMV).
  15. Dmitriy66
    Dmitriy66 20 November 2018 14: 33
    +1
    Quote: 210ox
    "" The Petrel can be launched even before the conflict begins, "Yeah, but if we manage to agree on what to do with the missiles already launched .. And yes, there are targets .. It will not work to cover the missile defense system.

    belay
  16. Dmitriy66
    Dmitriy66 20 November 2018 14: 44
    +3
    Quote: Dzafdet
    What is not clear to the author? Sarmat is a sword, and Petrel is a dagger .... It will be carried by TU-160, including, and they will be launched to completely destroy the mattresses. That is why they are now throwing to the masses the construction of bunkers with a depth of 300 meters.

    and mattresses have already begun to dig in? then the question is: why do not buy excavators in Cheboksary?
  17. BAI
    BAI 20 November 2018 14: 53
    0
    nuclear missiles

    Actually - this is a real chance to dramatically surpass the United States in space.
    1. Kerensky
      Kerensky 20 November 2018 15: 12
      +2
      Actually - this is a real chance to dramatically surpass the United States in space.

      Where to overtake? Will we get to Mars first in the Kyrgyz Republic?
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2018 17: 09
      0
      We do not develop NRE - a heavy launch vehicle will be already in the 28th, given the current pace, an optimistic forecast of 35 years.
    3. asv363
      asv363 20 November 2018 19: 20
      0
      Quote: BAI
      Actually - this is a real chance to dramatically surpass the United States in space.

      The direction of thought is right. By the way, if, until 2013, the development of space NRE was ordered to advertise, then everything was classified sharply.
      In essence, the difference between the space NRE project and the Petrel is that during the first operation there will be an emission of radioactivity, in addition, a supply of the working fluid is necessary. It will be possible to launch it only after entering orbit, unlike the Petrel, for which the working medium is air.
  18. garri-lin
    garri-lin 20 November 2018 15: 22
    -1
    And for me, this is a circumvention of the agreement on the number of YB deployed. And standing on Burevesniki will be a regular warhead kilogram that way for 500. And the fact that at the time of defeat will detonate the remaining fuel so this is a concomitant effect. Even if the detonation of the fuel will be megaton 10 or even 20.
    Another tricky plan.
    1. pru-pavel
      pru-pavel 20 November 2018 17: 48
      +3
      So that nuclear fuel detonates, it must be properly compressed without implosion of nuclear explosions. And so it's just a dirty bomb. Infection of the area with radioactive substances through a conventional chemical explosion.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 20 November 2018 19: 26
        0
        Sarcasm is not understood. Although if you retrofit the engine, then an explosion may well be. A matter of desire.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 November 2018 02: 10
      +1
      Quote: garri-lin
      And the usual warhead kilogram that way on 500 will stand on Burevesniki.

      With the presence of nuclear fuel conventional warhead? Absurdity!
  19. pru-pavel
    pru-pavel 20 November 2018 17: 45
    +3
    Brief retelling of the meaning of the article "spherical petrel in a vacuum"
  20. Allexir
    Allexir 20 November 2018 19: 00
    0
    Well, the first thing that comes to mind, on the Petrel there will be a powerful electronic warfare system, such as Alabuga. Those. The petrel or a pack of Petrels will suppress the enemy’s control systems at given points or areas, exactly as much as necessary.
  21. Vadim237
    Vadim237 20 November 2018 19: 25
    0
    "What is the" Petrel "for" The author - to cover your ass.
  22. antishefff
    antishefff 20 November 2018 20: 49
    +3
    I don’t understand, but what prevents having such a technology from fastening such a miracle engine to an ordinary airplane ??? Probably the technology is only on animation, or even in truth, a jerk would turn out, and only a jerk of the throat with next promises.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 November 2018 00: 43
      0
      It interferes because, this engine has radioactive exhaust.
      1. asv363
        asv363 21 November 2018 02: 27
        0
        More or less serious exhaust only in the version for space.
  23. faterdom
    faterdom 20 November 2018 20: 56
    0
    There is another side to the matter: since we have such a thing, then Americans will have to create blood from their nose too (otherwise it’s worthless to the high rank of hegemon). And after all, such a thing that you cannot borrow from either the Japanese or the French Germans, you cannot steal from the Chinese ...
    And time is expensive.
    And time is money. Moreover, the United States in the red. To make a nuclear propulsion device for a rocket, or not to do - and so, will cost so much. And it is generally difficult to imagine unsuccessful experiments in this area with what they can threaten.
    But still hypersound.
    Well, this is in addition to the content of the current nuclear forces, aircraft carriers, bases around the world ...
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 21 November 2018 00: 48
      +1
      "As long as we have such a thing ..." in the form of a cartoon.
      So far, the President has said that the rocket is "under development."
      Look on the Internet for the results of (American) experiments such as Pluto or NERVA programs, which showed that nuclear engines have too short a resource - not one of them worked for even half an hour. Also, intensive bombardment of the turbine and compressor by neutrons will quickly lead to their destruction from the "softening" of the metal (a well-known and physically understandable phenomenon). Plus, movement at hypersonic speed in dense layers of the atmosphere leads to rapid heating, and access to rarefied layers of the atmosphere deprives stealth ...
  24. Old26
    Old26 20 November 2018 22: 56
    +2
    Quote: Mih1974
    Further more - modern radars "ignore" the target going tangentially to their zone or through it,

    Sorry, but how is it? SPRN radars have either a circular view or a sector of 270 degrees. What is the tangent or not? Everything will be reflected on the screen. Another thing is that whoever gives the command to defeat will have to prioritize what to hit first and what second. To hit targets like the KR there is no need to use interceptor missiles. Enough airplanes.

    Quote: KCA
    Some reasoning about a spherical horse in a vacuum, nothing is known about the "Petrel", it supposedly has a POISON, but even the principle of its operation is unknown, the speed is unknown, the payload mass is unknown, nothing is known, but some analytics of the expediency of this rocket is already underway , maybe it has a charge of 500 megatons and supersonic speed, or hypersonic with a flight in a plasma cloud, or maybe a layer of armor like a tank and a modern missile defense system for it is simply about nothing, you can fantasize for a long time

    Yes, we are talking about the sphere sphere. In appearance (aerodynamics), only one thing can be said. The rocket is subsonic. With such dimensions, you can approximately judge the weight characteristics of the product. I think I'm not very mistaken if I call a figure of about 2,5-3 tons. . But how this POISON works, its principle is unknown.

    Quote: Serjio
    What this missile obviously has is stealth (like the Kh-101/102) and, obviously, an electronic warfare system. So the argument about "small numbers" is not entirely valid, IMHO.

    You can find out how you can place an electronic warfare system on this rocket, despite the fact that it is not known what the payload is and how this rocket "fills". And what will this electronic warfare system give specifically for this missile.

    Quote: Dzafdet
    What is not clear to the author? Sarmat is a sword, and Petrel is a dagger .... It will be carried by TU-160, including, and they will be launched to completely destroy the mattresses. That is why they are now throwing to the masses the construction of bunkers with a depth of 300 meters.

    "Sarmat" is really a sword. "Petrel" - it is not yet clear what. It is also unclear what will be the bearer of this product. Its dimensions can exceed the dimensions of the same X-101/102 (at least outwardly, it seems larger). This means that it is not a fact that it will fit on a rotary installation and, accordingly, it is not a fact that it will be carried by the TU-160. Such a missile is not suitable for complete destruction. Do not think that there is no antidote for this "wunderwaffe". The enemy will try to destroy, if not the carriers themselves, then at least the CDs themselves. And such an unmasking factor as the "long-term" flight of such a missile will make it a priority target. In addition, it can bypass only stationary missile defense zones, such as mines in Alaska or California. But those missile defense systems are not designed to intercept CDs. And what can intercept it will be almost 100% guaranteed by mobile complexes. Moreover, the warhead of this missile is unlikely to be a penetrator.

    Quote: Jurkovs
    The petrel can be secretly launched from anywhere in our country and unexpectedly hit command posts and headquarters.

    Covertly? The enemy has all radars canceled by a superior decision ??? And the satellite reconnaissance means will be specially turned off at the time of the launch of the "Petrel" ...?

    Quote: garri-lin
    And for me, this is a circumvention of the agreement on the number of YB deployed. And standing on Bureveshnikov will be the usual warhead kilogram that way for 500.

    And what's the point in this super-expensive system with a nuclear engine and a conventional warhead?

    Quote: garri-lin
    the fact that at the time of the defeat will remove the remaining fuel so this is a concomitant effect.

    And what will detonate there? TVELs or something similar?

    Quote: garri-lin
    Even if the detonation of the fuel will be megaton 10 or even 20.

    Now there isn’t even ammunition of such power, and your engine will detonate with this power output?


    Quote: Allexir
    Well, the first thing that comes to mind, on the Petrel there will be a powerful electronic warfare system, such as Alabuga. Those. The petrel or a pack of Petrels will suppress the enemy’s control systems at given points or areas, exactly as much as necessary.

    Two counter questions. But what for then this KR is needed if it will only play the role of electronic warfare
    And the second question. But is it possible to put all this into its overall dimensions, while also ensuring a decent power consumption?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 November 2018 00: 47
      -2
      This missile is more likely transonic 1000 km per hour and radars will not see its launches over the territory of the Arctic, since it will fly low.
      1. Arikkhab
        Arikkhab 21 November 2018 01: 00
        +1
        Remind about radiation? Yes, it will glow like a tree with its exhaust
        1. asv363
          asv363 21 November 2018 02: 42
          0
          Why did you initially consider the non-leakage of the nuclear power unit rods? There was a project with leaking fuel rods, but this is for flights to Mars, and the installation was criticized far from Earth.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 21 November 2018 10: 07
          -2
          Satellites are not enough to see radioactive radiation online.
    2. garri-lin
      garri-lin 21 November 2018 11: 23
      -1
      Yeah, the leash would have a say. We do not understand sarcasm.
      And if to the succession in the contract the number of deployed warheads is indicated. If the warhead is normal, then the missile does not fall under it and stamp them at least STOPyatSot. And the dance begins to whine so it will be possible to bargain.
      And to blow up the reactor core is no problem. Especially if the reactor was made for that. And the explosion will be exactly nuclear, not thermal like in Chernobyl.
      I had sarcasm with megotons too. 50 kilotons per eye is enough.
      A simple and concise response to their unique missile defense / air defense missiles that can carry special warheads and can reach strategic important objects in Russia.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 21 November 2018 11: 25
        0
        I apologize, but half of my message is changed and satisfied. And not edited. There about America with its missiles.
  25. vaay
    vaay 20 November 2018 23: 10
    0
    The most logical destination is guaranteed to cause unacceptable damage. In any case. They will just horseradish in large cities, by population. It is traditionally covered the least. They will not close everyone and everywhere.
    It fits into the voiced .. Why do we need such a world if Russia does not exist in it ...
  26. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 21 November 2018 00: 34
    +1
    "Let's say the rocket exists ...."
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 November 2018 00: 55
      0
      "Burevestniks" will sooner be placed in the northern territories of Russia: Novaya Zemlya, the Yamal Peninsula, Kamchatka, Kuril Islands, so that they would take off and throw out their radioactive exhaust over the seas and oceans. And the Poseidons will be placed in the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet.
      1. asv363
        asv363 21 November 2018 03: 08
        0
        Dear Vadim! Where did you get the data on the radioactivity of the "exhaust"? I do not urge you to disclose data, access to which is limited. However, I believe it is possible to announce the general principles of the installation. Also, what isotopic composition do you expect to see in the "exhaust" at the Nth hour of exploitation?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 21 November 2018 10: 55
          0
          This is a PVYARD - the scheme is simple, air enters the air intake, kerosene fuel is injected into the air stream, the air-fuel mixture passes through the reactor fuel circuit - an open type, thereby cooling it, expanding and creating reactive thrust, respectively, with the removal of radioactive material, and at rest, the reactor is shut off, with boron carbide, graphite and cadmium rods, when starting up, the protection system is removed, part of the rods leaves the core and the reactor goes into operating mode, starts to heat up quickly, hence the range of 20000 kilometers - maximum heating of the air-fuel mixture, minimum consumption fuel, all elements that are formed in the nuclear reactor will be present in the exhaust, including Carbon 14, Iodine 129, Americium and other isotopes - all of them are long-lived. 6 - 8 Zilvert at the exit will definitely be, an equivalent dose of 0,250 mSv per year is dangerous for a person.
          1. asv363
            asv363 21 November 2018 11: 50
            0
            Vadim, thanks for the answer. I'll just correct it a little. After all, the unit of measurement is called Sievert, not Zilvert. The isotopes of iodine and americium can be found only with leaking fuel rods, such a design of the core of the nuclear reactor was considered for space. And even then, on common thought, we switched to an open "second" circuit.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 November 2018 14: 52
              -1
              Without an open circuit of the reactor - you will not heat the fuel, to create the necessary power and reduce fuel consumption, this "doomsday" rocket should be used only once.
              1. asv363
                asv363 21 November 2018 15: 35
                0
                If you remove the PEL from the core in one way or another (the same rods from the conventional boron cabid), the fuel rods will heat up almost immediately, just have time to supply them with air and kerosene for cooling. Naturally, if the NRE becomes critical when removing the rods (value Keff> 1). I understood what you mean by an open circuit. In our case, the openness of the circuit does not mean that the fuel rods are leaking, that is, the absence of isotopes heavier than O-18 in the emission.
  27. O. Bender
    O. Bender 21 November 2018 10: 18
    0
    Most likely it’s a third-wave means. After using ICBM daggers, to finish off the remaining infrastructure together with long-range bombers. In this case, air defense control systems for air defense systems and so on will be largely destroyed. Breaking through the air defense remnants is much easier.
  28. Bellerophon
    Bellerophon 21 November 2018 10: 41
    0
    BUREVESTNIK - new version of DEAD HAND. First, it is very difficult to detect it by intelligence. Secondly, it can fly for a long time on a predetermined route as an "AIRCOMMAND POINT", issuing a launch command to other surviving petrels (and not only). Thirdly, it is difficult to intercept, which makes the retaliatory strike IMPRESSIVE. A PAIR OF THREE HUNDREDS OF STROLLERS IS A VERY EFFECTIVE TOOL OF CONTAINMENT.
    1. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 21 November 2018 21: 20
      0
      So it is better "Petrel" is not a long flight, but a deep bed. For example, an immigrant from Europe, Australia or the Solomon Islands settles near Washington, New York, etc. Then by mail he receives the details of the "do it yourself" kit and assembles: - nuclear weapons in a hundred kilotons. He hides in a basement and lives a full life. At the signal of the "dead hand" the retarder is ignited and leaves for Hawaii. The boom is big and without any flights over the Arctic and Antarctica ... - Scary tales for adult children at night ...
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 18 February 2019 00: 27
      0
      By the time the Burevestniki arrive, there will already be an exchange of strikes with ballistic missiles and there will be no one to intercept the Burevestniki.
  29. vadimtt
    vadimtt 21 November 2018 11: 28
    0
    Given the new energy capabilities, it is possible to build an unmanned aircraft (aka a cruise missile with a nuclear engine) with the ability to take off from any unprepared site. Mass of 15-20 tons, of which 10-12 tons - booking wassat
    Hello air defense and missile defense. It’s just right to put tank guns on fighters tongue
  30. Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 21 November 2018 16: 11
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    For missile defense, the Kyrgyz Republic has always been one of the most difficult goals.

    But how did the Syrian weak air defense beat all the Tomahawks?
  31. turbris
    turbris 22 November 2018 19: 22
    +1
    "Petrel" is a fundamentally new weapon and the concept of its use is still being developed, and not everything is clear with the weapon itself. The carriers can be different, but what are the characteristics of the CD itself, what kind of warhead, what altitude, what is the RCS of the rocket, in general, there are more questions than answers, and hardly anyone will answer such questions. It can be used when breaking through air defense, in conjunction with other CD, but there are many options for hitting individual especially important remote objects and the like. Therefore, now this is a large field for the imagination of the authors, but of course it is ridiculous to say that this can replace strategic aviation.
  32. Vladimir K
    Vladimir K 22 November 2018 20: 25
    -1
    But what about a radioactive trail that is easily detected? NATO planes will fly on it and spank the unlucky traveler. And the longer she flies, the more likely she is to be hit.
  33. Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 22 November 2018 23: 44
    0
    In my opinion, this weapon is extremely unsuccessful even in the event of a nuclear war - this cruise missile is quite large and at the same time very slow, with a large emission of heat and radiation during the flight (experts agree that a reactor with an open core is used there), dear, and it means you can’t do a lot of them, not easy to maintain and operate, and thus there are more problems and dangers from it. The likelihood that even one can reach the United States is low, but there is no guarantee that it will not cause trouble in the event of an accident over its territory. Not to mention air pollution in general. No wonder this concept was abandoned in the USSR and the USA in the distant past.
    1. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx 25 November 2018 15: 35
      0
      Are you a developer? How do you know what parameters this joint armament has?
      Maybe enough to guess on the coffee grounds and wait for the official TTX to be published?
  34. demos1111
    demos1111 23 November 2018 14: 53
    0
    I have not read such empty articles for a long time.
    I think the main parameter of the petrel, besides the range, is speed.
    She is not known to a wide audience. Conventional rockets fly slowly, saving fuel.
    If it was possible to create a free air flow higher than in a caliber turbine by means of a reactor, then its speed will be higher.
    If we assume that the speed of the petrel is 1600 km per hour near the ground, it means that not a single plane will catch it and the interception is much more complicated.
  35. nnz226
    nnz226 24 November 2018 21: 13
    0
    Strategic bombers are needed not for a world nuclear war (World War III), but for the implementation of the plans of the Russian Federation in local conflicts. This is Syria not far from our borders, but a clash is possible somewhere further away (see the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War), again, American AUGs must be "grazed" ...
  36. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 25 November 2018 15: 31
    0
    The speculative conclusions of the couch general. All arguments and counter arguments are sucked out of the finger. Moreover, it seems to me that they are sucked up by a person who cannot even ask himself a question, but he is puffed up to find an answer. And yet, it seems to me that the author of this opus came from the opposite. First, he came up with counter arguments, and then he urged certain arguments under them, which no one had ever operated on when they developed such weapons. The mere assumption that such a missile will cancel the long-range, causes a crooked smirk.
    I don’t understand why to pass such nonsense to a resource? I don’t even want to comment ...
    Are we moving towards the OK format?
  37. ccsr
    ccsr 25 November 2018 17: 20
    0
    Author:
    Vladimir
    A cruise missile can have a KVO of only 1-2 meters, which is very important for hitting highly protected targets - such as command bunkers, in which the country's top military and political leadership is located.

    For a standard nuclear charge, such accuracy is not needed at all, and even if the KVO is 10 meters, then with a conventional explosive of 200-300 kg it is unlikely that this will save the enemy’s object from defeat.
    One thing is certain: The Petrel will, by its very appearance, make it necessary to revise plans for waging war.

    But this is unlikely - cruise missiles with any power plant will never replace ballistic missiles with a large number of warheads.
  38. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 February 2019 11: 34
    0
    Quote: Dmitriy66
    Quote: Dzafdet
    What is not clear to the author? Sarmat is a sword, and Petrel is a dagger .... It will be carried by TU-160, including, and they will be launched to completely destroy the mattresses. That is why they are now throwing to the masses the construction of bunkers with a depth of 300 meters.

    and mattresses have already begun to dig in? then the question is: why do not buy excavators in Cheboksary?


    They have their own, much better ...