Military Review

PD-190 float from Novorossiysk can be transferred to Murmansk

137
The interdepartmental commission will consider the possibility of transferring the floating dock PD-190 from Novorossiysk to Murmansk to replace the sunken PD-50, which was used to repair the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov. It is reported by Interfax, citing a source familiar with the situation.


PD-190 float from Novorossiysk can be transferred to Murmansk


According to the source, specialists from the interdepartmental commission will soon visit Novorossiysk to study the possibility and feasibility of transporting PD-190 to the north of Russia. Such an operation is possible, but the fact is that currently the ship is preparing to dock it to the cruiser-museum "Mikhail Kutuzov", which did not go through the docking during 20 years and when towing to Sevastopol, the ship could be flooded aft compartment. In this case, it is possible to prepare the dock for the inter-fleet crossing with simultaneous work on the cruiser-museum.

Earlier it was reported that during the withdrawal of the Admiral Kuznetsov from the floating dock PD-50 at the 82-th ship repair plant there was an emergency situation, as a result of which the dock sank. The PD-50 was the only floating dock in the north of Russia capable of receiving heavy ships, and the Admiral Kuznetsov will need a new docking in the summer of next year.

At present, diving operations are underway in the flooded area of ​​the dock, the number of divers has been increased due to the addition of divers from the Federal Agency for Sea and River Transport (Rosmorrechflot).
Photos used:
http://militaryrussia.ru/
137 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 12 November 2018 16: 58
    +7
    Hmm ... that's how hard the fate of our only aircraft carrier is. And after all, all of our naval aviation, in fact, rests on it.
    1. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 12 November 2018 17: 02
      +23
      Quote: NEXUS
      Hmm ... that's how hard the fate of our only aircraft carrier is. And after all, all of our naval aviation, in fact, rests on it.

      Maybe the fate of the only aircraft carrier is not so complicated, you just need to build a melt. docks! And dry docks should work ... When was the last time a normal dock was built!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 November 2018 17: 10
        +13
        Quote: 30 vis
        Maybe the fate of the only aircraft carrier is not so complicated, you just need to build a melt. docks!

        Maybe it’s easier not to drown the existing floating docks due to the penny saving? wink
        Quote: 30 vis
        And dry docks should work

        And they work. Simply, EMNIP, wrote that 11435 does not pass into the dry dock in Severodvinsk.
        1. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 12 November 2018 17: 30
          +15
          In Sevastopol in Soviet times, the same Kuznetsov came into it .. The dry dock is huge. Its length is 290 meters, its width is 36, and its depth is 11. It can receive Panamax-type vessels with a displacement of up to 80 thousand tons. In Soviet times, the dock belonged to the Sevastopol Marine Plant. Sergo Ordzhonikidze. Of the world-famous vessels docked in the dry dock of Sevastopol, the United States liner (United Atlantic Blue Ribbon), 289 meters long and 31 meters wide, should be singled out. In 1993, asbestos slabs were dismantled there. After 1991, the plant was divided into several small enterprises and practically destroyed, shops and property were looted. Now they are going to upgrade ... How much has been destroyed! Enormous funds are now needed for everything!
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 12 November 2018 19: 23
            0
            Read more carefully:
            Quote: 30 vis
            В Sevastopol in Soviet times, the same Kuznetsov came into it

            Quote: Alexey RA
            And they work. Just, EMNIP, wrote that 11435 in the dry dock in Severodvinsk does not pass.
            1. hrych
              hrych 12 November 2018 19: 37
              +5
              Quote: Dart2027
              Read more carefully:

              The key information in this article is that diving operations are underway, so all the diving reserves have been driven there. Those. if it was impossible to raise it, then they would spit, and here people work. Conclusion - prepare the rise. And the canoe about driving docks from other seas is the canoe. Then it’s easier to send Kuznetsov to Sevastopol, even if in tow if he’s not on the go. After all, he is not a navigator with great seaworthiness; he was not created to plow the expanses of the ocean. Therefore, we read the article as yellow, but we notice the details, we are waiting for the results of diving operations, and this is of course an upsurge. There is a lot of work there, air tanks, depending on the damage, they will be welded up and so on. They will supply air with hoses and the dock itself will pop up, this is its property.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 12 November 2018 19: 47
                +1
                Quote: hrych
                The key information in this article is that diving operations are underway, so all the diving reserves were driven there

                In this case, I drew attention to 30 vis, which he notes on the comment which says about diabetes in Severodvinsk with a description of diabetes in Sevastopol.
          2. DPN
            DPN 12 November 2018 20: 58
            0
            Ours (the heroes of Gorbachev and Yeltsin) knew what he was doing and somehow supported them
          3. Dmitry Alekseev
            Dmitry Alekseev 13 November 2018 10: 40
            +2
            He worked in Sevastopol at the plant. Sergo Ordzhonikidze. from 1992 to 1995 United States was also found, the workers lost a lot of health due to the breakdown of asbestos partitions. The ship was rusty, but nothing was patched up in the big dock on the North. I do not know how then, but until the summer of 1995. the large dock was in full operation. Several ships were started. There were three docks in the plant. Two small ones in the plant itself, the Smetlivy patrol boat only fit (also repaired it in those years) and one large on the North side, a huge structure.
        2. lis-ik
          lis-ik 12 November 2018 19: 19
          +5
          On the road, and this drown.
          1. Grits
            Grits 13 November 2018 09: 06
            +1
            On the road, and this drown.
            these can ...
      2. alstr
        alstr 12 November 2018 17: 40
        +9
        Let's expand a little: It is necessary to build, in general, docks (floating and stationary) in order to repair large ships.

        In such a situation, what kind of aircraft carriers and other large ships can we talk about?
        If they have nowhere to serve. But every 5-10 years the ship needs a good repair. Or they set up a missile cruiser for modernization and more and more are impossible - there are no places.
        1. Grits
          Grits 13 November 2018 09: 12
          +5
          Let's expand a little: It is necessary to build, in general, docks (floating and stationary) in order to repair large ships.
          I'll tell you more - it is necessary to build an infrastructure for basing ships in general. In our Pacific Fleet, due to the absence thereof, more than one ship was destroyed. So, having developed their resource, our aircraft-carrying cruisers "Minsk" and "Novorossiysk" died. For half a year I worked on the SSV-33 Ural reconnaissance ship, which constantly stood in the roadstead and rattled without shore power. He died for the same reason. The ship was unique and almost new.
      3. URAL72
        URAL72 12 November 2018 18: 04
        0
        Not so long ago, read about the plant in Primorye, it is still being completed.
      4. SlavaS
        SlavaS 12 November 2018 21: 23
        -2
        fulfilling Western orders, the current government only builds pumps for the oil industry, and pipes for gas pipelines, blowing dust in the eyes of patriotism and the greatest and mightiest.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 November 2018 10: 53
          +5
          Quote: SlavaS
          fulfilling Western orders, the current government only builds pumps for the oil industry, and pipes for gas pipelines, blowing dust in the eyes of patriotism and the greatest and mightiest.

          Well, yes, yes ... but this, apparently, is Photoshop:
          1. SlavaS
            SlavaS 14 November 2018 12: 50
            0
            What is it? What is it?
      5. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 13 November 2018 07: 53
        0
        In words, no one denies the necessity of the objects of the coastal infrastructure of the fleet. These are interpreted in their own way.
    2. kjhg
      kjhg 12 November 2018 17: 08
      +3
      And after all, all our naval aviation, in fact, is holding onto it.
      deck aviation - it will be more correct.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 12 November 2018 17: 10
        +4
        Will we not drown? But how to say ... Also, when I worked there at the NSRZ in the 90s, the Novorossiysk dock, which was created to repair tankers of the "Kavkaz" type, was damaged during one of the hurricanes "Bora", which were constant in Novorossiysk. cracks in the body, they were naturally repaired. I don’t know how things are going there at the moment (I don’t live in this city for a long time), but considering that the port itself belonged to someone who didn’t know, and the NSRZ was plundered for a long time and lost most of its territory (there is now, in most of the territory, a loading berth scrap metal and container terminal) - no attention was paid to the dock, from the word in general, I do not think that its condition is very different from the dock that sank in Murmansk.
      2. Sergey39
        Sergey39 12 November 2018 17: 19
        +1
        The carrier-based aircraft we hold on a thread in the Crimea.
    3. DMB 75
      DMB 75 12 November 2018 17: 12
      0
      What kind of aviation, I’m embarrassed to ask, Andrey? Marine? This is a couple of dozens of flyers with blue gaps, which, by heroic efforts, only two yeroplanes sank off the coast of Syria(respect for themWe didn't have full-fledged aircraft carriers with a "trained heavenly army", and there was nothing to puff up.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 12 November 2018 17: 17
        +5
        Quote: DMB 75
        What kind of aviation, I’m embarrassed to ask, Andrey? Marine? This is a couple of dozen flyers with blue gaps

        This is first and foremost what no school of carrier-based aviation. At NITK, you won’t especially train flyers. We, however, did not need the aircraft carriers of this series when they sawed Ulyanovsk, when they sold to China ...
        Quote: DMB 75
        which by heroic efforts only two yeroplans sank off the coast of Syria (respect for them for this)

        Firstly, the reasons for the loss of the two sides there are different ... and it was not the fault of the flyers there.
        Secondly, if ...
        Quote: DMB 75
        We didn't have full-fledged aircraft carriers with a "trained heavenly army", and there was nothing to puff up.

        So you think you need to sit quietly and not shine? What do you mean, don’t need to puff? Russia needs an ocean fleet, and without aviation, our IBM will be vulnerable.
        1. DMB 75
          DMB 75 12 November 2018 17: 24
          +13
          Quote: NEXUS
          Russia needs an ocean fleet

          And where is he? One needs to live by realities, not pink dreams. Minus whatever, dreamers, take your soul away. laughing
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 12 November 2018 19: 15
          +2
          Quote: NEXUS
          So you think you need to sit quietly and not shine? What do you mean, don’t need to puff? Russia needs an ocean fleet, and without aviation, our IBM will be vulnerable.

          One gets the impression that our naval doctrine is inclined to the idea that we will not swim "for the buoys" and we will brush aside the adversary with frigates and boats, with the support of ground-based aviation. request
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 12 November 2018 19: 21
            +1
            Quote: Piramidon
            One gets the impression that our naval doctrine is inclined to the idea that we will not swim "for the buoys" and we will brush aside the adversary with frigates and boats, with the support of ground-based aviation.

            No ... we, as in that saying, the eye sees, but the tooth does not have.
            I want the ocean fleet, but even with the Union, there were problems with this. Money is necessary there unmeasured. But I am convinced that either the time will make us build the ocean fleet, or the adversary.
            We have a plug with specialists, and the schools of construction were lost in order. We’re building icebreakers fun and fast, but the destroyers somehow still fail. RHYTHM -200 is already racing at full speed, and the Leader is only on paper.
          2. Grits
            Grits 13 November 2018 09: 16
            +1
            "for the buoys" we will not swim, but we will brush aside the enemy by frigates and boats,
            You forgot to say that we will dismiss frigates and corvettes without engines.
    4. crest
      crest 12 November 2018 17: 15
      +4
      Probably they want to flood this one too. Probably they want to put an end to the ships of large displacement. Mlyn, it's a shame for the State. And most importantly, no one bears responsibility. The sunken floating dock was owned by Sechin, but with water off a duck. Alas, Russia is gradually losing the status of not only a "great", but simply a "Sea Power". We still remember the power of the Soviet fleet, but the newly born generation, it seems, will see nothing more besides missile boats (which for some reason we call corvettes). Although there are several frigates, they are in fact patrol boats.
      1. Sewer krainiy
        Sewer krainiy 12 November 2018 17: 34
        +3
        Mlyn, it's a shame for the State. And most importantly, no one bears responsibility. Alas, Russia is gradually losing the status of not only "great", but simply "Sea Power". We still remember the might of the Soviet fleet, but the newly born generation, it seems, will see nothing more besides missile boats (which for some reason we call corvettes).
        N-yes ... Everyone has already forgotten about the Indian squadron (8th), the Sredinomorskaya (5th). But the seas and oceans plowed around the ball. It's a shame ... And plus our fleets. Afraid of adversary.
      2. pru-pavel
        pru-pavel 12 November 2018 18: 45
        +1
        Now Russia is not a maritime power, but a hypersonic power
        1. Grits
          Grits 13 November 2018 09: 19
          -1
          Now Russia is not a maritime power, but a hypersonic power
          And also agricultural, energy, nuclear, space ... In general, a little of everything, but nowhere in full.
    5. Piramidon
      Piramidon 12 November 2018 19: 02
      +2
      Quote: NEXUS
      After all, all of our naval aviation, in fact, rests on it.

      Naval aviation is not only and not so much decked. hi
    6. Tashkent citizen
      Tashkent citizen 13 November 2018 06: 55
      +1
      Hmm ... that's how hard the fate of our only aircraft carrier is. And after all, all of our naval aviation, in fact, rests on it.

      Yes, there is no hard fate.
      The fleet is money, and big money.
      One of the greats said: "If you want to ruin a country - give it a fleet!"
      The government needs this fleet like a stoplight for a hare. Hence the complete lack of funding.
      As a result, the catastrophic state of the fleet, with all the ensuing consequences.
    7. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 13 November 2018 07: 52
      +1
      The fate of the coastal infrastructure of the fleet. And ship repair enterprises, as part of it. The state of the PD-50 as a consequence of a series of organizational decisions. It turns out that you can save up to a certain limit.
  2. Susanin
    Susanin 12 November 2018 16: 59
    -2
    Our "Kuzya" is expensive for Russia ... We are modernizing all the same, and in vain the enemies of our country are maliciously rubbing their boats.
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 12 November 2018 17: 08
      +14
      Quote: Susanin
      Our "Kuzya" is expensive for Russia ...

      It is not "Kuzya" that costs Russia dearly, but the nonsense and non-professionalism of the personnel serving the PD 50.
      By the way, "Petya" was also left without docking.
      Quote: Susanin
      All the same, we are modernizing and in vain the horrors of our country are maliciously rubbing boats.

      Of course !!! If the second dock on the "stretch" is not drowned. laughing
      1. Susanin
        Susanin 12 November 2018 19: 03
        -6
        Quote: kapitan92
        Of course !!! If the second dock on the "stretch" is not drowned. laughing

        Well, you don’t need to whine a lot of mind .. Here they are already concentrated in the maximum load.!
        Kicking Russia, this is already such a developed "psychological trick" .. and well paid, and even on our website .. Kick, and we will survive all the same!
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 12 November 2018 20: 39
          +7
          Quote: Susanin
          Well, you don’t need to whine a lot of mind .. Here they are already concentrated in the maximum load.!
          Kicking Russia, this is already such a developed "psychological trick" .. and well paid, and even on our website .. Kick, and we will survive all the same!

          You, comrade Susanin, registered at VO on November 7, 2018. You, write something sensible, but cheers and patriots and those who want to wave a saber are enough here without you. hi
          No need to answer. The end of communication!
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 12 November 2018 21: 15
            +5
            Quote: kapitan92
            You, Comrade Susanin, have registered at VO on November 7, 2018.

            Do not offend Vitalik - a veteran of VO. He is here every month for several years registers. It comes to the marshal and the bath.
            1. kapitan92
              kapitan92 12 November 2018 21: 27
              +1
              Quote: Piramidon
              Do not offend Vitalik - a veteran of VO. He is here every month for several years registers. It comes to the marshal and the bath.

              hi He, EMNIP, already under a different nickname, recently "saw" him in some topic on VO.
              We are old friends. Let them write, no problem. hi
          2. water
            water 12 November 2018 21: 26
            +2
            Quote: Susanin
            Our "Kuzya" is expensive for Russia ... We are modernizing all the same, and in vain the enemies of our country are maliciously rubbing their boats.

            Expensive!? Cheap!? - Everything is relative. Recently I read somewhere that the fleet of yachts of Russian oligarchs built from the beginning of "democracy" surpasses in value all ships and vessels of the Navy built during the same period.
            I just don’t know: to be proud of it, or to grieve?
            1. Grits
              Grits 13 November 2018 09: 23
              +1
              Watermark, you somehow professionally told us about what could happen on the dock. Maybe you have fresh info and methods for further actions? They said that in all the diving work is underway. Make it clear to us.
              1. water
                water 13 November 2018 18: 21
                +1
                Well what can I say !? If the dock was a military man, then the worst thing that could happen is a drunk doc master. But the dock would not have sunk. The bilge crew wouldn't give it. And here everything is much worse than a drunken docmeister. Here, effective management is coupled with optimization. Here is a complete violation of the Dock Operations Manual. But, effective management, it doesn't sink. I suppose the changes in the Operations Manual and the corresponding changes in the staff, which led to the death of this dock, were developed by some "scientific" institution. And bribes are smooth from science.
                Now the "efficient" are scurrying around. Either they offer to buy a new dock for the money of the State Budget, or to overtake it from Novorossiysk. One thing is completely clear: without lifting the drowned dock, there is nowhere to put a new one. It means to raise the bulut. Most likely, the Navy will be contracted for this purpose. Well, when they raise it, it is quite possible that it will turn out that it is better to repair it, return the old Operating Manual and the old state and operate. After all, he could not break. There, the slipway-deck is more than designed for "Kuzyu", so the impact on the ground only led to dents and local cracks. Of course, the electrical equipment will have to be changed, but a plant is a plant for that.
      2. pin_code
        pin_code 13 November 2018 06: 38
        -1
        what does the staff have to do with it? rather, the crap and unprofessionalism of high-ranking officials who gave privatization to a strategic enterprise with rare (piece for us) equipment. and the greed of defective managers and optimizers.
  3. svp67
    svp67 12 November 2018 17: 01
    +1
    Not a big woman trouble, so ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 November 2018 17: 11
      +7
      ... so she put in charge of the shipyard with the floating dock of the defective manager. sad
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 November 2018 17: 12
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        so set to lead the shipyard with floating dock

        "effective" managir
  4. ochakow703
    ochakow703 12 November 2018 17: 03
    +3
    Both on! If only they wouldn’t drown ... Poor Kuzya. There was only one left, and then no one can give him mind. They would have put him next to Aurora on the Neva; people would have admired him.
  5. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 12 November 2018 17: 04
    +2
    Okay .. Transfer the floating dock to the North. And who was planted? ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 November 2018 17: 13
      +5
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      And who was planted? ...

      The sowing season has already ended ... "they do not plant or remove" their own people.
  6. Clone
    Clone 12 November 2018 17: 04
    0
    Actually, old age, old age with a drowned dock, but no one canceled the wrecking and sabotage.
    1. Galleon
      Galleon 12 November 2018 17: 22
      +1
      What is the service life of any product - sabotage and sabotage? Not the fatigue of the metal in some, drying out of capacitors or burnout of lamps in others, or lack of fertilizer in others? Developing your thought, you can create a perpetual motion machine: start it and periodically imprison technicians "for sabotage."
      Maybe it's better to work yourself, and not rummage on your side in search of a Mauser, creaking with a leather jacket?
      Do not be offended wink
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 November 2018 17: 46
        +13
        Quote: Galleon
        That is the life of any product — wrecking and sabotage? Isn’t metal fatigue in some, drying of capacitors or burnout of lamps in others or lack of fertilizers in others?

        And the lack of fuel for ADH and the reduction of minders on the floating dock is metal fatigue or drying of capacitors? wink

        And by the way, "metal fatigue"- this is not an insurmountable coincidence of circumstances, but negligence. Negligence of the inspector who carried out the next survey of the object. Or negligence of the designer who laid the wrong metal in the structure.
        1. Galleon
          Galleon 12 November 2018 19: 16
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And the lack of fuel for ADH and the reduction of minders on the floating dock is metal fatigue or drying of capacitors?

          When engineers and engineers will steer in production and on the farm, ask me such questions. I am an engineer in my field. BUT economic benefits and common sense are sometimes the opposite.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 12 November 2018 20: 06
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And the lack of fuel for ADH and the reduction of minders on the floating dock is metal fatigue or drying of capacitors?

          this is a business for Rosneft
        3. Grits
          Grits 13 November 2018 09: 25
          +2
          Or the negligence of the designer, who laid the wrong metal in the design.
          Plant Swedish designers and builders!
      2. Clone
        Clone 12 November 2018 18: 21
        0
        Quote: Galleon
        That's the life of any product.

        Quote: Galleon
        Maybe it's better to work yourself, and not rummage on your side in search of a Mauser, creaking with a leather jacket?

        «Commune ”(until 1922 -“ Volkhov ”) - a marine support vessel (launched in 1913) of the Navy of the Russian Federation (Russian Navy), a rescue boat for submarines, and a catamaran in design. The oldest ship of the Russian Navy, and the oldest ship in the world, actually in service.
        Now it is part of the Black Sea Fleet. It has been upgraded, equipped with an underwater robot Seaeye Panther Plus. (with)
        No, I better disassemble and lubricate the "Mauser" ... suddenly it will come in handy. We have a lot of cases when, through slovenliness (read - sabotage and sabotage) ... they drown, fall off, explode and do not take off.
        1. Galleon
          Galleon 12 November 2018 19: 14
          +1
          Quote: Clone
          I'd rather disassemble and lubricate the Mauser ... it might come in handy. We have a lot of cases when, due to sloppiness (read - sabotage and sabotage) ... they drown, fall off, explode and do not take off.

          There was such a figure in the country - Lev Mehlis. He didn’t leave a good memory of himself.
          When he was a PMC on the Southern Front, in the spring of 1942, he came to the bomber regiment to "figure out" why the pilots sabotage combat missions. He was told that heavy bomb-loaded vehicles could not take off on the muddy earth. He built the brought platoon of machine gunners and ordered to take off. The cars were accelerated, at the end of the takeoff they were caponing and exploded. When the last bomber from the regiment was destroyed, Mehlis spat angrily, turned around and left.
          Do you dream to be the same ??
          1. Clone
            Clone 12 November 2018 23: 11
            +1
            Quote: Galleon
            Do you dream to be the same ??

            Let me remind you of the "popular" wisdom ... "Foolishly, you can break the hell!" (from)
            The normal desire of a law-abiding citizen to get to the bottom of the truth - Why does a century-old ship sail on the sea and does not rust, and much later the "trough" produced unexpectedly (!!!) gurgled and went under water, really endangering our only carrier of "airplanes" ?? ?
            And Mekhlis ... So, in comparison with the current conductors of "personnel policy", Joseph Vissarionovich was in this issue, undoubtedly, "God, Tsar and military commander."
            1. Galleon
              Galleon 13 November 2018 14: 24
              0
              Yes, keep me seven moderators, otherwise I will speak to this "wise man" with three boxes of warnings !!!!!
              How many times have you gone to sea, my dear ?? What is your swimming qualification ??? Do you take a lot on yourself, blaming generations of sailors all over the globe for the fact that their ships go beyond 100 years ???? !!!! How many diesel engines did you go through, cleaned the economizers, or repaired radio stations, refrigerators, or radars ???
              Not at all ?? Are your shoulder straps green?
              Any ship is inhabited by people who leave their labor, sweat and years on it. Only a land rat can usually call a vessel a trough. And not all rats are land animals. Do not be like rats.
              Son, go to sea, puke, go not by ballast, but by a crew member at least 10 times less than I, the sinner, then we'll talk. hi
              1. Clone
                Clone 13 November 2018 21: 08
                -1
                Lost in thought ... what more does the opponent have, the baseless ambition of any shells in an intimate place? Pure into space ...
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 13 November 2018 11: 52
            +1
            Quote: Galleon
            There was such a figure in the country - Lev Mehlis. He didn’t leave a good memory of himself.

            If a person whose main occupation is control and punishment leaves a good memory about himself, then this indicates his professional failure. smile
            In addition, human memory is very selective. Few people remember, for example, that it was Mehlis who knocked out and organized the transportation of KV tanks to the Crimea. The same tanks that the Crimean Front had dried out in two offensives of the winter-spring of 1942.
            1. Galleon
              Galleon 13 November 2018 14: 32
              -1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              whose main occupation is control and punishment, leaves a good memory about itself - this indicates his professional failure.

              The main occupation of Mehlis was to edit the newspaper "Pravda", but he was able, as you exactly said, only to make control and punishment. He was good at ruining something.
              I brought up one memory, you another. I could add about Mekhlis and more, at least from the book of General Gorbatov "Years and Wars" (Gorbatov's relations with Mekhlis and in the film about the first are reflected, with Gostyukhin in the title role). But we are already moving far from the floating dock topic, Alexey.
              It’s hard to argue with you and it’s interesting to talk.
              And with the command of the Southern Front it did not matter at all there. This is well reflected in Serov's Notes from a Suitcase.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 13 November 2018 15: 45
                0
                Quote: Galleon
                The main occupation of Mehlis was to edit the newspaper "Pravda", but he was able, as you exactly said, only to make control and punishment. He was good at ruining something.

                Judging by the first order on the Crimean Front after the arrival of the Mehlis, there was already nothing to ruin there. It was necessary lead to the meridian relaxed front command.
                Arrived in Kerch 20.01.42/XNUMX/XNUMX. They found the most unsightly picture of the organization of command and control of the troops ... Komfront Kozlov does not know the position of the units at the front, their condition, as well as the enemy’s groupings. Not a single division has data on the number of people, the presence of artillery and mortars. Kozlov leaves the impression of a bewildered and unsure commander. None of the leading workers of the front since the occupation of the Kerch Peninsula in the troops ...

                How did Kozlov know the position of the troops if, during the Kerch-Fedodosia operation, the command of the Caucasian Front (from which the Krymfront was later allocated) was in Tbilisi and Krasnodar - and in order to kick out from there the front group’s headquarters operational group already required the Headquarters directive dated January 19.01.42, XNUMX signed by Vasilevsky and Stalin.
                Quote: Galleon
                To ruin something he did well.

                Nevertheless, the replenishment and competent command staff for the Crimean Front knocked out Mehlis.
                ... at the request of LZ Mehlis, 450 light machine guns, 3 thousand PPSh submachine guns, 50 mortars of 82 mm and 120 mm caliber, two divisions of M-8 rocket mortars were released to the front. T-34 and KV tanks were promised. Already on January 24, Mehlis is seeking the appointment of a new front aviation commander - Major General Aviation E.M. Nikolayenko. By that time, 110 defective aircraft had accumulated at the airfields of the peninsula, as a result of which no more than one sortie took off per day. The commander of the 51rd Infantry Division, Colonel G.P. Kotov, was sent to Crimea at the insistence of L.Z. Mehlis.
  7. albert
    albert 12 November 2018 17: 06
    +3
    And why should "Kutuzov" be transferred to Sevastopol? How many times have they said to leave him in Novorossiysk. Or, as always, do not care about the opinion of the people? There was a petition on this matter. angry
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 November 2018 17: 14
      +2
      Quote: albert
      And why should "Kutuzov" be transferred to Sevastopol?

      And what the whole "Monino" museum is being transferred to the "Patriot Park", what is it like?
    2. Examenatornick
      Examenatornick 12 November 2018 18: 28
      0
      I think that it’s not badly earned there. Sevastopol is a tourist city, and we have a port city. Everything in the world is for money. They also take excursions to it. They’ll cut the bushes.
  8. Valter1364
    Valter1364 12 November 2018 17: 16
    +2
    In Novorossiysk, the dock is also not in the best condition, but experts say that they should survive towage to Murmansk.
    1. Examenatornick
      Examenatornick 12 November 2018 18: 52
      +1
      you can say anything, but if you introduce personal responsibility for these specialists, their opinions will change or they will express themselves more carefully. Here, the sensors are upside down on missiles, so they don’t believe in success.
  9. Ryzhik
    Ryzhik 12 November 2018 17: 46
    +5
    abnormal situation occurred at the 82nd shipyard, as a result of which the dock sank

    It's okay! Most importantly, the country is rising from its knees, salaries are growing at an unprecedented pace, and the Russian army is one of the best in Europe. And yes, the situation in Ukraine is much worse than in Russia.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 November 2018 17: 48
      +4
      Quote: Ginger
      It's okay! Most importantly, the country is rising from its knees, salaries are growing at an unprecedented pace, and the Russian army is one of the best in Europe. And yes, the situation in Ukraine is much worse than in Russia.

      No matter what they say -
      All will bring one to the women!
      © smile
  10. ashnajder
    ashnajder 12 November 2018 17: 54
    -4
    Kuzya suitcase without a handle)))
  11. bald
    bald 12 November 2018 17: 54
    0
    Well this is how much he should go, in winter, in the season of winds. I could not find the sediment PD - 190, maybe someone knows?
    1. Random
      Random 12 November 2018 18: 19
      +1
      Quote: bald
      maybe someone knows?

      Read here ... you can find wink
      link - https://journal.gumrf.ru/files/articles/37/128-136.pdf
      1. bald
        bald 12 November 2018 20: 39
        +1
        Sergey, thanks. Found approximate information, true for small PDs and when loading (8,6 m).
    2. ver_
      ver_ 12 November 2018 18: 32
      0
      ..will sail? ..
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 12 November 2018 21: 20
      0
      Quote: bald
      Well this is how much he should go, in winter, in the season of winds.

      Do you think he’ll be dragged tomorrow? A couple of years they will decide and coordinate.
      1. bald
        bald 12 November 2018 22: 26
        +1
        In spring, he is already needed, for Kuznetsov, such information, this particular PD - 190, and not a dry dock. The sunken course will be raised in parts, but then a complete repair. So they found a way out. Until spring, much can be done on Kuznetsovo. But somewhere to replace the skin, keel and other gadgets - the whole part that is below the waterline - you need a floating dock. As they say it will be towed - that’s what I can’t even imagine - a storm and such a distance.
    4. Rzzz
      Rzzz 12 November 2018 22: 09
      +3
      Yes, there is not much in the "surfacing" state. Another thing is that it is healthy in size. I have one of the leaders at work - a former captain of one of the Black Sea tugs. He said that he took part in the construction of a newly built dock from Split to Novorossiysk. On the Bosphorus, he says, he was dragged by nine tugs. In the Bosphorus, traffic was completely blocked. He did not go under the bridge in height, he sunk in front of the bridge, then floated up again. In general, the epic was global, even on a Soviet scale.
      Now drag it to a crazy distance, and not yet in the resort of the Mediterranean, around the whole of Europe .. it will cost like the Olympics.
      1. bald
        bald 12 November 2018 22: 30
        +1
        That’s for sure, I also think about the Bosphorus - it’s a worker, they’ll drown it, but then drag a wild distance along the ropes, and even through storms - it will not fall apart along the road, it’s already aged.
      2. Grits
        Grits 13 November 2018 09: 34
        +1
        But isn’t it easier not to take risks, but to wait for a while with the repair of Kuzi. By this time, order the construction of a dock in China or South Korea and then stretch it along the Northern Sea Route in summer navigation?
        The Chinese, Koreans, unlike us, are building very quickly. And by this time it is possible to carry out repair work on the Kuz, which does not require hull work.
    5. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 13 November 2018 07: 55
      +1
      In the autumn-winter period, as well as in the spring, the dock will not be driven. Weather conditions do not contribute to the safety of wiring.
      1. bald
        bald 13 November 2018 08: 33
        0
        And then in general why this undertaking, with the repair of Kuznetsov, if it allows without repair, all that is lower than the waterline - then generally the dock is not needed. That in the air (equipment) can be changed without PD. A minor repair under water, divers can do. I myself am a scuba diver and worked underwater.
        1. Rzzz
          Rzzz 13 November 2018 10: 28
          +1
          Change the skin for divers? Ney, I know about underwater work, but it's one thing to put an understudy on a hole, another thing is to change sheets in hundreds of tons.
          1. bald
            bald 13 November 2018 11: 29
            0
            No ! It doesn’t work out - I just said about minor repairs under water. As you say - to weld a small patch, but there should not be holes. What else can a diver do, is to clean the shell underwater from a build-up of shell rock. If the rudders (keel) are operational and the propeller blades - then they can only be cleaned of the growth. Well, and perhaps most importantly, the word flew out of my head - the water seal on the pulley - it is usually changed - it has a useful life. But this is all a huge work under water and a large number of divers. Even for welding, there are special boxes - that is, you are in a diving suit and you cook the case in a dry room, only the case does not need to be changed - that's for sure, otherwise it's easier to write it off.
            1. Rzzz
              Rzzz 13 November 2018 15: 11
              +1
              The housing wears out. Corrosion does not stop for a second. As a result, approximately 10% of the casing is replaced for each subsequent repair (every 5 years) on the old ship. It just does not pass through the thicknesses according to the results of the defect. Therefore, no dock - no way. Valolin lines are necessarily defective at each successive, with the replacement of consumables (segments of rubber-metal bearing bushings, seals, tightening bolts on couplings, etc.) This also cannot be done underwater.
              1. bald
                bald 13 November 2018 15: 20
                0
                No flaw detector.
                1. Rzzz
                  Rzzz 13 November 2018 15: 29
                  +1
                  The defect of the case is just mono to conduct afloat, there are such devices. But the repair - absolutely nothing.
                  I have an idea. Drive a steamer somewhere east, to some Dudinka. And freeze in ice. There, without docks, they make repairs in the ice bowl. But to cut the bowl into an 8-meter draft - this is going crazy !!!
                  1. bald
                    bald 13 November 2018 15: 51
                    0
                    I was in Dudinka - there is a huge port - this is really an idea. There is a new article above on DATA BY THE MO RF ON THE ASSESSMENT OF KUZNETSOV'S DAMAGE. Right there and write down - there is a proposal and what I said - I will support - but after all, experts from Murmansk read these articles - maybe they will think about it. Come on boldly.
                    1. Rzzz
                      Rzzz 13 November 2018 19: 27
                      +1
                      No, this idea is crazy, in order of fun expressed. The scale is not the same. I understand how river steamboats are repaired in cold weather. But for a 300-meter fool, with a crazy weight and draft of more than 8 meters - this is unlikely to succeed.
                      We urgently need to finish building a dry dock in Severodvinsk. It will be cheaper than driving, less risk and more sense. True, for the implementation of this project on time it is necessary to revive the Gulag. For management at least.
                      1. bald
                        bald 13 November 2018 20: 23
                        0
                        The idea is crazy - but I liked it, it would really work. And so this gimmick will last for years and the new equipment that will be installed (navigation, electronic warfare, radar, some types of weapons) will become obsolete and will have to be replaced with a newer one - even two years - this is a long time - you have not noticed how crazy speed it is being introduced new products.
                      2. bald
                        bald 15 November 2018 20: 45
                        0
                        I do not see you - - our conversation is on 13. 11 2018 - right here and go
                  2. bald
                    bald 15 November 2018 20: 37
                    0
                    Rzzz - Hello. Can you talk about this topic here?
                    1. Rzzz
                      Rzzz 15 November 2018 20: 41
                      0
                      Why not...
                  3. bald
                    bald 15 November 2018 20: 52
                    0
                    Well, where did you go?
                    1. Rzzz
                      Rzzz 15 November 2018 22: 39
                      0
                      I'm here. Maybe I don’t know very well the engine of this site, where can I say that?
                      1. bald
                        bald 16 November 2018 06: 00
                        0
                        Right next door, here it is, in this thread, so that the rules of the site are not violated under my closest comments - point the cursor to answer and a message will come to me exactly here - I will find it. You read what I sent - it came last night, right from the scene - where the PD-50 sank.
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. dgonni
    dgonni 12 November 2018 18: 23
    +1
    They can’t! For the state will not be allowed to pass through the straits! I will not tell further.
  14. Examenatornick
    Examenatornick 12 November 2018 18: 24
    +8
    Well, right. Why build a new one. You can take it away from another place. Our shiprepair has now collapsed and the dock will be taken away. The last hope for the revival of our plant has died. Thank you, this is a breakthrough.
  15. Cradle
    Cradle 12 November 2018 18: 26
    +4
    PD-190 float from Novorossiysk can be transferred to Murmansk
    +++ Well, now, it's time and the weather is whispering and what is characteristic without American participation, its idiots above the roof ...
  16. The comment was deleted.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 12 November 2018 19: 27
      +8
      Quote: AllExx
      What happens if neighbors kill their citizens (MH17)

      With this question to your country.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 12 November 2018 19: 37
          +3
          Quote: AllExx
          Read, stubborn

          So what? There was no evidence as there was no, and the flight route laid after the incident speaks for itself. And the opinion imposed from the USA does not bother them.
          Quote: AllExx
          Well, or, if everything is so wonderful, arrange with the Dutch, Swedes and other countries

          Wait and see. Better to worry about your "country".
    2. Comrade Beria
      Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 19: 38
      +3
      Quote: AllExx
      This happens if neighbors kill their citizens (MH17)

      The main thing is to speak out against Russia, then everything will be forgiven.

      By the way, why all of a sudden after the statement of our Moscow Region and publication of documents on the rocket, the topic of the MN-17 Boeing simply disappeared from everywhere? As it was not him.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Comrade Beria
          Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 03
          +3
          Read, stubborn:
          https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-44249795

          And you would not be rude, lad.
          This news is May, and now is November.

          Your beloved Air Force is also silent, as it got water in its mouth.

          After the Dutch presented the rocket parts with the number, and even claiming that it was like fingerprints, we did a lot of work, and documents were found from which it followed that the rocket, from which the parts were presented, turned out to belong to Ukraine.
          A document on paper is not a photo from social networks. You can only refer to it if you are confident in its authenticity. Moreover, put it on public display.
          Therefore, the creaks appeared, and a lot more.

          True, the Boeing still pops up.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Comrade Beria
              Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 16
              +3
              Soon?
              And then the fifth year of responsibility began, it even became boring.

              By the way, and the pilot Voloshin, your hero, why did you kill yourself?
              And someone else, the chief of communications of the Kharkov air defense unit, if memory serves.
              And the conclusions of the international commissions on MH17 are based on documents and facts, and not on the testimony of the dispatcher Carlos and the cartoons of Almaz-Antey.


              You might think that Bellinkat didn’t have cartoons.
              With three perspective points on the frame. But you don’t understand this.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Comrade Beria
                  Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 26
                  +3
                  Quote: AllExx
                  For example, as in North Korea.

                  And what about North Korea? Everything is fine there. Heating by whole cities is not turned off. And you? Enough tires?

                  Omerika with you, huh?

                  You still frighten SWIFT scare.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Comrade Beria
                      Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 39
                      +4
                      Quote: AllExx
                      Everything will be fine, kid, but you can’t say about you.

                      Of course, it’s bad here, the hedgehogs are in hibernation, there’s nothing to eat. We eat each other.
                      And I heard you brought artificial fat? Probably tasty.

                      How is it that Yuzhmash is doing business with Antonov, they say the last Boeing with Airbus has squeezed the world market, and Motor Sich started delivering engines to Sikorsky?
                      They’ll heal, they’ll become goldfish, at least.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Comrade Beria
                        Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 46
                        +7
                        Quote: AllExx
                        They say in Moscow - chickens are milked!

                        Hens are different, there are laying hens, there are Khokhlushka chickens.
                        They live on Leningradka. They are famous for their high milk yield.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Comrade Beria
                        Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 56
                        +4
                        Quote: AllExx
                        and repair the aircraft carrier of all times and peoples "Kuzyu"

                        But how do you Varyag, China should be sold at the price of scrap metal?

                        And what about the Ukraine supercruiser? Are the mooring lines rusty?
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. Xnumx vis
                        Xnumx vis 12 November 2018 22: 12
                        +2
                        Do not tear your heart, Svidomo floppy! Don’t worry, so much for Russia! We'll figure it out ourselves. We’ll build a new aircraft carrier, everything will be airplanes ... and you get ready to change shoes in the air, prepare the Russian flag. Clean your shoes, buy your trousers ... Get ready to meet Russia in Khreschatyk!
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. Xnumx vis
                        Xnumx vis 12 November 2018 22: 22
                        +2
                        Wait Svidomo! Bryachata bought? Wash the racks clean? I saw how your warriors of light jerked from Sevastopol and Crimea .. What they said, what they implored Yes! ... I am not a guest, I live here! My Ukraine!
                      9. The comment was deleted.
                      10. Xnumx vis
                        Xnumx vis 12 November 2018 22: 45
                        +4
                        Don’t be afraid, you’re so busy, aren’t you Krizhopelya, aren’t you Ternopel ?! The border is not far ... Do not bother with a pair of legs under the table! it threatens ... You will cheat with Canada, maybe you will be in time ... Then the cupboards will be bathed in ne treba .. Again, saving for your skinny hamanz ...
                      11. The comment was deleted.
                      12. Andrei Nikolaevich
                        Andrei Nikolaevich 14 November 2018 08: 16
                        +1
                        Personally, I saw how the fleet was divided in Sevastopol, in 1992. Therefore, I was very glad to watch on TV how the Khokhlo-Momaks escaped from Crimea. :-) Again, on free apartments in Odessa, we hoped .. But no .... :-)
                      13. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 November 2018 20: 52
                        +3
                        Quote: AllExx
                        They say in Moscow - chickens are milked!

                        Hey, it’s yellow-black ... Are you sure that the cosmic rays on the Maidan did not affect you? Maybe you put a pan full of holes on your turnip? I’m sorry, little brother.
                      14. The comment was deleted.
                      15. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 November 2018 21: 01
                        +4
                        You write in Russian, you watch Russian films ... Ah, one hell, you are not Russian.
                      16. Allexxx
                        Allexxx 12 November 2018 21: 03
                        -5
                        Russian is not the one who writes in Russian and watches Russian films. When you grow up you will understand this, boy.
                      17. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 November 2018 21: 17
                        +1
                        Quote: AllExx

                        Russian is not the one who writes in Russian and watches Russian films.

                        What am I talking about?
                      18. The comment was deleted.
                      19. VIT101
                        VIT101 12 November 2018 21: 28
                        0
                        Quote: AllExx
                        Russian is not the one who writes in Russian and watches Russian films.


                        Pishov bi ti to get zvidsil, like bi ukrainets!
                      20. Allexxx
                        Allexxx 12 November 2018 21: 32
                        -3
                        I'll deal.
                      21. dlekcat
                        dlekcat 12 November 2018 22: 03
                        +1
                        what does it do here. you forgot a miracle here.
                      22. Allexxx
                        Allexxx 12 November 2018 22: 16
                        -1
                        And you don’t cough!
                    2. Piramidon
                      Piramidon 12 November 2018 21: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: AllExx
                      So when disconnected - do not complain.

                      You are painfully menacing. In each comment you wave your fists.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
  17. Radikal
    Radikal 12 November 2018 18: 34
    0
    Quote: Examenatornick
    Well, right. Why build a new one. You can take it away from another place. Our shiprepair has now collapsed and the dock will be taken away. The last hope for the revival of our plant has died. Thank you, this is a breakthrough.

    Who - everyone? winked
    1. Examenatornick
      Examenatornick 12 November 2018 18: 48
      +3
      everyone who has brought to the point that there are not enough docks in our country. Our company has the same stupid policy. After each breakdown, they grab the part from the work object and shove it where it is needed, then they suffer and give birth to this part to where they removed it. Well, let's guys drown this dock too. China may wonder whether or not such docks can be riveted. Although all this is deadline ... Kuzyu needs to be patched urgently and the dock will not appear in the short term by clicking.
  18. alexhol
    alexhol 12 November 2018 19: 02
    0
    Let you "Kuza" die in peace. I'm not a superstitious person, but the navy is a different matter. It is not Russia's destiny to become a maritime superpower, so can it be better to restore order in rocketry and become the first again?
  19. Operator
    Operator 12 November 2018 19: 58
    +2
    It is more rational to transfer to Novorossiysk "Kuzya", "Petya" and PD-50 (after lifting) - for cutting into scrap metal.
    1. Comrade Beria
      Comrade Beria 12 November 2018 20: 09
      0
      Quote: Operator
      It is more rational to transfer "Kuzya", "Petya" to Novorossiysk

      Petit will have to dig a channel from the White Sea to the Black Sea. lol
      But seriously, the passage through the straits prohibited ships with a nuclear power plant. No wonder the Eagles were built at the Baltic factory.
      1. Operator
        Operator 12 November 2018 20: 16
        0
        Well then, let "Petya" sail to the Baltic Shipyard, where it was launched 29 years ago, and its nuclear power plant, after being dismantled and installed on a barge, will heat a city with a population of 30 thousand people (like Norilsk) for another 200 years.
      2. Rzzz
        Rzzz 13 November 2018 10: 36
        0
        The eagles could well be built in Nikolaev, leave the Black Sea with unloaded reactors, on fuel oil boilers. But this is somehow unwise from the point of view of logistics.
        By the way, this is how Sevmorput came out, after it was built in Kerch.
  20. New Year day
    New Year day 12 November 2018 20: 01
    0
    translation is, of course, good. But in the Black Sea it is not needed? But they will be pulled in tow, not drowned? And in the north, he will not fall into the hands of Rosneft, as the deceased? After all, they will drown again!
    Unanswered Questions
  21. Radikal
    Radikal 12 November 2018 22: 27
    0
    Quote: Examenatornick
    everyone who has brought to the point that there are not enough docks in our country. Our company has the same stupid policy. After each breakdown, they grab the part from the work object and shove it where it is needed, then they suffer and give birth to this part to where they removed it. Well, let's guys drown this dock too. China may wonder whether or not such docks can be riveted. Although all this is deadline ... Kuzyu needs to be patched urgently and the dock will not appear in the short term by clicking.

    Yes, I completely agree with you, just be specific, you say - everything, it means nobody! Each "jamb" always has a surname and position .... hi
  22. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 12 November 2018 23: 50
    +1
    a big ship is always a big problem, and there is no harbor for it, and a pier and dock, and most importantly, that Russia’s ocean surface fleet is not needed from the word at all. While the gunner still serves, let him serve, so as not to spend too much money on new frigates, but if there are so many problems, then sell it to India or China, and make more Boreev, coastal aviation, all kinds of minesweepers, and to replace Kuze with a couple of Gorshkovs, but rather instead Kuzi upgrade a pair of 1155, and then it will be more useful and calm down on that. But if Kuzyu is not sold, then he has a docking place for him at the Pacific Fleet, and there he has at least tasks to defend the Sea of ​​Okhotsk in conditions of a lack of coastal airfields. True, there is no pier for him.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 12 November 2018 23: 52
      +2
      that’s what the problem really is, that it will be harder to revise the nuclear submarines, it’s the deep and most important problem of the fleet and the whole country
      1. The Siberian barber
        The Siberian barber 13 November 2018 01: 06
        +1
        There "Nerpa" is
  23. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 13 November 2018 01: 05
    0
    They treated the head, the leg fell off .. (
    Looks like the second is not a pity ..
  24. antikilller55
    antikilller55 13 November 2018 08: 17
    +1
    As out of place all this gimmick with PD-50, not at all "in time", if I can put it that way, this is always not in time.
  25. Grits
    Grits 13 November 2018 09: 05
    0
    And what prevents, if necessary, to leave the dock as a museum "Kutuzov" in Novorossiysk. I think they will not be offended in Sevastopol.