Military Review

Israeli special forces entered Gaza and suffered losses

171
Israel decided to conduct a land operation in the Gaza Strip. Recall that the idea of ​​the need for an operation was promoted by the Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman. According to him, this is necessary in order to stop the "Hamas aggression." The cabinet was skeptical about the initiative of Lieberman, and as a result, a “compromise” decision was made: to conduct the operation with limited forces of the Israeli special forces.


Israeli special forces entered Gaza and suffered losses


During the military operation, according to the press service of the IDF, a shootout ensued, during which seven representatives of the military wing of Hamas were killed. There were no casualties on the Israeli side. An Israeli army special forces unit officer was killed, another soldier was injured.

The Israeli press reports that among those killed by Hamas are Nir Barak, who was the commander of the battalion of the military wing of Hamas. Another killed representative of the movement was a member of the Gaza National Resistance Committee.

The press service of the IDF notes that the name of the dead soldier will be named later. His family and friends to the present moment are notified.

Earlier in the media appeared materials that one Israeli commando was captured. The press service of the Israeli Defense Ministry called these statements rumors.

In addition to the ground operation, the Israeli Air Force operation was conducted. In the Gaza Strip, at least 40 objects were attacked.

It is noted that the hostilities began after the meeting, which was held by Avigdor Lieberman, the Chief of General Staff Gadi Ayzenkot and the head of Shabak (security service) Nadav Argaman. The decision was made after another rocket attack on Israeli territory.

Safety instructions are distributed to residents of Israeli border areas. These instructions will be valid at least until Monday evening. Among the emergency measures - the suspension of the rail link between Beersheba and Ashkelon. Shderot, Netivot and Ofakim stations are closed.

In the Gaza Strip, meanwhile, they said that Israel is hiding its real losses as a result of a military adventure.

In connection with the unfolding events in the region, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu interrupted his visit to Paris.
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  1. bessmertniy
    bessmertniy 12 November 2018 07: 28
    +17
    In the past, Israel needed a reason to hit Gaza. This time, it seems, dispensed with no reason.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 12 November 2018 07: 40
      +29
      and in the end, a "compromise" decision was made: to conduct the operation with the limited forces of the Israeli special forces.

      In a civilian car, they quietly drove into the Gaza Strip, killed Barake and ran into the Palestinians when they left ... they called in aircraft ... killed four more Palestinians ... here you have the peaceful Jews. belay
      1. Evil543
        Evil543 12 November 2018 07: 59
        +18
        Right now, Aron will answer what and how it was, yes the professor is partaking
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 12 November 2018 12: 49
          +6
          Judging by the fact that Netanyahu interrupted the visit, resistance to the special forces was not expected. Are you going to shoot unarmed?
          At least the special forces see those whom they shoot. Unlike the pilots of the aircraft, who were only told the coordinates. And that there is a residential building or ammunition depot, Israel will say that there were terrorists.
          1. hrych
            hrych 12 November 2018 13: 24
            +2
            Quote: Shurik70
            Are you going to shoot unarmed?

            Avik, Gadia and Nadavysh conferred and poured blood, including their own.
      2. indy424
        indy424 12 November 2018 08: 36
        -6
        yeah, petty in the back.
      3. Tarhan
        Tarhan 12 November 2018 15: 56
        -5
        Why stir up the water?

        The special forces received the task to eliminate the commander of the militants. Those militants who shoot rockets at Israel. The special forces fulfilled their task, business then.

        In general, the Gaza Strip is separated from Israel and from Palestine itself. Hamas terrorists rule there. This authority of Hamas is not recognized even by the Palestinian National Authority of Palestine itself.

        The entire infrastructure of Gaza is based on Israel. Israel supplies electricity, water to Gaza, and transfers cargo from its ports to Gaza. In response to the rocket. Therefore, operations against Hamas are carried out from time to time.

        “In November 2012, hostilities between Israel and Hamas resumed. After the unilateral withdrawal of the Jewish settlements of Gush, the Arab population of Gaza continues to be treated in Israeli hospitals, tens of thousands of children were treated in hospitals in the State of Israel, including during Operation Cast Lead. Hamas shelled the southern cities of Israel, and the Barzilai hospital in Ashkelon continued to treat children from the sector. "
        "According to the influential Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat, 2012 millionaires live in Gaza as of September 600"
        "Under the conditions of the blockade of the sector, the 2011-star ArcMed Hotel Almashtal Gaza was built in 5".

        No need to shell Israel and special forces will not come.
        1. mr_Flint
          mr_Flint 12 November 2018 16: 54
          -2
          What are you saying? Your arguments do not fit into the fluctuations of the party line and break the comfortable feeling of couch friends of jihadists.
        2. AnderS
          AnderS 12 November 2018 17: 50
          +3
          If Israel doesn’t like the Palestinian missiles - let it be removed from the Gaza Strip and from the west coast of the Jordan, nobody will keep it there ... And if it illegally occupied these territories - let it slurp it with a full spoon, and missiles and terrorist attacks and so on ...
          1. brigadier
            brigadier 12 November 2018 18: 01
            0
            let him get out of Gaza

            Sometimes read the news. There are many interesting things there.
            1. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 12 November 2018 21: 39
              +2
              Yes, there is such a mess that it is difficult to understand who, to whom and what "owes"! In the quarrels of "close" relatives, each participant has so much truth that it is very difficult to understand anything from the outside, especially if the party is still quite far from the quarrels. My opinion: This conflict is like a meeting of two particularly stubborn rams on a narrow path. Here are just a few more sheep. hi
      4. Yasen Ping
        Yasen Ping 12 November 2018 16: 35
        0
        when were they peaceful? remind me?
  2. Hagalaz
    Hagalaz 12 November 2018 07: 29
    +2
    Well, let's say so. And still it’s hard to call the operation successful.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 12 November 2018 07: 50
      +15
      And was there a brutal need to kill this Barack ... and 4 more Palestinians ... I think there weren’t any more blood enemies to the Jews ... every such murder gives rise to a chain of bloody answers ... it's silly to do so. ..this is a war without end and end ... the Jews themselves are to blame.
      1. Hagalaz
        Hagalaz 12 November 2018 08: 18
        +3
        I absolutely agree hi
      2. ver_
        ver_ 12 November 2018 08: 29
        +1
        ... they are a mustache Arabs and a Jew, the same Arab .. - one family ... The Jews themselves brought to their * Palestine * this virus of terror .., I have nothing against if they (the Jews) will return to their historical homeland with all the kagal and they will build a just society there ..
      3. Professor
        Professor 12 November 2018 09: 26
        -16
        Quote: The same Lech
        And was there a cruel need to kill this Barack ... and 4's Palestinians ..

        The Philistines were killed when ours returned home. Baraka is not the fish for which special forces would be sent. During the shootout, 7 Hamas were eliminated.

        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        ... I think there wasn’t ... now there are more enemies of the bloodsheds for the Jews ... every such murder gives rise to a chain of bloody answers ... it's silly to do this ... it's a war without end and edge ... the Jews themselves are to blame.

        You think? Based on what data can you read? Are you familiar with the Arab mentality? Of course not.
        Guess three times which of the Israeli prime ministers Arabs respect the most? Hint, Shimon Peres offered them the Golan and Judea with Samaria (or whatever they are in Arabic)? Begin gave them Sinai. Rabin returned Arafat from Tunisia.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 12 November 2018 09: 31
          +13
          You think? Based on what data can you read? Are you familiar with the Arab mentality?

          smile Well, finally I waited for you ... but I thought you did not appear.
          Riddles are not in my part ... and if you soberly argue which year you are at war with the Hamasites and still can not beat them with all your technological bells and whistles ... you need to destroy all Palestinians to solve this problem ... which by definition is impossible ... so professor mentality is not mentality, but Israel will have to fight Palestinians until the end of the century.
          1. Professor
            Professor 12 November 2018 10: 04
            -8
            Quote: The same Lech
            You think? Based on what data can you read? Are you familiar with the Arab mentality?

            smile Well, finally I waited for you ... but I thought you did not appear.
            Riddles are not in my part ... and if you soberly argue which year you are at war with the Hamasites and still can not beat them with all your technological bells and whistles ... you need to destroy all Palestinians to solve this problem ... which by definition is impossible ... so professor mentality is not mentality, but Israel will have to fight Palestinians until the end of the century.

            Of course not. Until 1948 they called us Palestinians. The Arabs did not have a name then. It was only in 1964 that they began to be called "shabl filystyni" (the Palestinian people). Do you know who? wink

            2 million Arabs in Israel live very peacefully with us. Hamas are terrorists. They do not need peace by definition.

            Guess three times which of the Israeli prime ministers Arabs respect the most? Hint, Shimon Peres offered them the Golan and Judea with Samaria (or whatever they are in Arabic)? Begin gave them Sinai. Rabin returned Arafat from Tunisia.

            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I sympathized with the Jews until our people died through their fault ... so now I talk about Israel with a cold mind and heart.

            Are you talking about how our fighter "literally covered himself with Il"? Aren't you tired of carrying heresy? fool
            1. Locksmith
              Locksmith 12 November 2018 10: 59
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              Are you talking about how our fighter "literally covered himself with Il"? Aren't you tired of carrying heresy?

              As you usually say, files on the table, otherwise a liar !! Where are your documented materials ?? No ?? Oh, what a sadness ...
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 12 November 2018 12: 27
                -2
                Materials on the table at the commander of the VKS. They are not published. request
        2. XXXIII
          XXXIII 12 November 2018 11: 28
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Special Forces

          As it is, to be honest, it is hard to believe, the special forces drove so deep into the depths of Gaza and even into the mosque, and no one set them on fire, it looks like a fake (diza). That is, these ringleaders did not have guards, there were apparently no block posts either. The losses are also strange, if the special forces were set on fire in the center of Gaza, there would have been such a flurry of fire, they would hardly have been able to leave, they would have surrounded it, "Tsakhal" is lying, politics and nothing else .... hi

          A statement released at night by the Hamas military wing said: “Israeli special forces entered a mosque in the area of ​​the mosque of Shahid Ismail Abu Shnab east of Khan Younis and killed Hamas military wing commander Nur Barake.
          http://news.israelinfo.co.il/events/75738
          Area of ​​operation on the map;

          You can not answer, everything will lie exactly or write down your vision of this operation ..... tongue
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 12 November 2018 12: 34
            -4
            We went further and deeper and not only in Gaza. They just got caught here. As for the flurry of fire - it is necessary to concentrate a lot of people at the operation site in order to produce this flurry. But, if agents and other means of intelligence scorch such concentration, then the operation, as a rule, is canceled.
            1. XXXIII
              XXXIII 12 November 2018 13: 50
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              We went further and deeper and not only in Gaza. They just got caught here. As for the flurry of fire - it is necessary to concentrate a lot of people at the operation site in order to produce this flurry. But, if agents and other means of intelligence scorch such concentration, then the operation, as a rule, is canceled.

              Of course, everything was calculated, but the first thing that causes doubt is the protection, which had to be eliminated without raising the alarm. All protection can only be removed in the cinema and once there is a dead, wounded, they are still spotted. It is also not known how many fighters were in the special forces group, this is also important. And most importantly, the car (possibly not one), how could she drive up or stay in another place without arousing suspicion ..... No.
              In general, there were 7 important objects and obviously they were not for a walk, the mosque was clearly unhooked and they were not sitting at the entrance, but in some bunker under the mosque, for example. No, there are not many connections, the movie probably "Tsakhal" was shot to convince the Jewish public of the effectiveness of the Israeli army. And here you can understand that the internal political situation is important, the intensity, passion. In conclusion, we can say that Netanyahu in France received little attention from other heads of state. To which it was decided not to shame the reputation and rating of the most effective prime minister in the Jewish world ..... something like this ..... laughing hi
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 12 November 2018 14: 19
                +1
                laughing ... in Israel, the public does not need to be particularly convinced, because children of the entire active part of the population serve in the army. Like their parents at one time. And even before the age of 35-40 they make annual reservist fees. About a month in a year. All boys and some girls officers. What they had for the task is unknown. What special forces it was is still unclear. As a rule, there is an active group and a cover group. Most likely, the current group came across. It happens. War s. hi
              2. Ramzaj99
                Ramzaj99 12 November 2018 20: 28
                +2
                Quote: XXXIII
                Of course, everything was calculated, but the first thing that causes doubt is the protection, which had to be eliminated without raising the alarm.

                The first thing that is doubtful is that a whole lieutenant colonel participated in the operation !! They are there on whom, they went to Hassan Rukhan ???))
                1. XXXIII
                  XXXIII 12 November 2018 21: 11
                  0
                  Quote: Ramzaj99
                  The first thing that is doubtful is that a whole lieutenant colonel participated in the operation !! They are there on whom, they went to Hassan Rukhan ???))

                  By the way, yes, an important detail, as it missed the rank of lieutenant colonel ..... good smile
          2. Professor
            Professor 12 November 2018 16: 56
            0
            Quote: XXXIII
            As it is, to be honest, it is hard to believe, the special forces drove so deep into the depths of Gaza and even into the mosque, and no one set them on fire, it looks like a fake (diza). That is, these ringleaders did not have guards, there were apparently no block posts either. The losses are also strange, if the special forces were set on fire in the center of Gaza, there would have been such a flurry of fire, they would hardly have been able to leave, they would have surrounded it, "Tsakhal" is lying, politics and nothing else ....

            Watch the movie "Fouda".

            Quote: XXXIII
            You can not answer, everything will lie exactly or write down your vision of this operation .....

            And what then do you turn to me, dear man? request
            1. XXXIII
              XXXIII 12 November 2018 19: 21
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              Watch the movie "Fouda".

              I understand you, let's see, thanks! hi
              Quote: Professor
              And what then do you turn to me, dear man?

              And at that time, only you started the conversation here in a chic sense, so you decided not to put much pressure on you and left you perhaps not to put in much effort, but to leave the area of ​​tension as a standard .... smile
          3. Neksel
            Neksel 12 November 2018 19: 39
            0
            The losses are also strange, if the special forces were set on fire in the center of Gaza, there would be such a flurry of fire, they would hardly have been able to leave, they would have surrounded it, "Tsakhal" is lying, politics and nothing else ....

            Watch the TV show "Fouda". There will be some answers, as it happens.
      4. snake
        snake 12 November 2018 09: 39
        +7
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        And was there a cruel need to kill this Barack ... and 4 more Palestinians ... I didn’t think so ... I didn’t think so ... now there are more Jewish enemies-blood soldiers ... every such murder generates a chain of bloody answers. .. it’s stupid to do so ... it’s a war without end and end ... the Jews themselves are to blame.

        I do not condone Israel, but, listen, maybe they, who are constantly fighting with the Palestinians, can better see who to eliminate? But did not the West use the same rhetoric in relation to Russia, when all sorts of Basaevs / Gelaevs were destroyed in Chechnya? Say: now Russia has increased its blood enemies, it's stupid, they are freedom fighters, etc.
        In the end, Israel is, and will be for a long time. Whether this is fair or not is the tenth question. There were wars in which Israel was noticeably inferior to its opponents, but nonetheless snatched out its right to exist. The fact that he is nightmaring the Palestinians is probably impossible in a different way. If we give slack to the Arab world, then Israel will have to be very sour. In any case, it’s worth discussing it, being in the Middle East, living there, and not on the couch with a cup of tea.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 12 November 2018 09: 44
          +7
          In any case, it’s worth discussing while in the Middle East, living there, and not on the couch with a cup of tea.

          I sympathized with the Jews until our people died through their fault ... so now I talk about Israel with a cold mind and heart.
          I add that the final peace can only be achieved by conquering the heart of their enemy ... the Jews, on the other hand, are doing the opposite, multiplying their enemies.
          1. snake
            snake 12 November 2018 10: 13
            +3
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I sympathized with the Jews until our people died through their fault ...

            And through the fault of the Arabs, didn’t our people die? But the fault of our corrupt generals did not die?
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I add that the final peace can only be achieved by conquering the heart of your enemy ...

            Is it like subsidies to Kadyrov? We recently held a FIFA World Cup, including to "win hearts", as the propagandists explained. So what? Did the West begin to love Russia strongly? Maybe someone from the EU canceled the sanctions or the rhetoric regarding Russia as an enemy has changed for the better?
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            so I am reasoning about Israel now with a cold mind and heart.

            Well no, buddy. It is not true. You yourself said that you became negatively about the Jews after the death of our guys through the fault of Israel. What kind of "cold mind and heart" can we talk about? A feeling of revenge, anger, resentment and other feelings that cannot be called "cold" are already traced here.
            1. Jerk
              Jerk 12 November 2018 10: 21
              +4
              And you read THEIR press during the World Cup. Not a single critical article, on the contrary, that the Russian Federation is a nifiga not the territory of the orcs, goes for us ... So the World Cup in this sense is also justified, not to mention the fact that the World Cup is always paid off, and it’s very well paid off event. So also in plus to the image of the Russian Federation in the west ...
              1. snake
                snake 12 November 2018 10: 40
                -1
                The World Cup has passed, and their press is again dipping Russia into the mud.
                Quote: Jerk
                The World Cup is always paid off, and very well paid off, an event.

                Yeah. Especially considering the love of our officials for cutting dough in construction.
                1. Jerk
                  Jerk 12 November 2018 10: 42
                  0
                  So all the same it was not possible to steal so much. They tell you that not one of the World Cups was unprofitable, although they were not even carried out in the Russian Federation, with our cuts, but in the United States, where they like to cut more, or even in the criminal capital of the world, South Africa)
                  1. Jerk
                    Jerk 12 November 2018 10: 45
                    +1
                    By the way, the Olympics - also, 1 was unprofitable - the summer in Melkobrehaniya, and it turned out to be unprofitable precisely because they decided to save money and not build additional ones. infrastructure, they say less steal. As a result, no one went, the prices for the same hotels are atrocious, there are no places, the Olympics turned out to be unprofitable, but they do not steal)))
                  2. snake
                    snake 12 November 2018 11: 02
                    -3
                    Quote: Jerk
                    They say to you that the World Cup was not a loss

                    Over the past 20 years, it has been possible to recoup the World Cup during its course only by the most economical. The most economical and effective football world cups for their economies were in the USA (1994) and France (1998). In these countries, football has long been popular, the urban economy and infrastructure were sufficiently developed to host the championship with minimal investment. Even at the application stage, the United States could offer about 30 ready-made stadiums that met all FIFA requirements. As a result, America spent only $ 30 million on infrastructure improvements. It is not surprising that the championship paid off before completion, only tickets brought in more than $ 60 million. The total long-term economic effect, according to various estimates, ranged from $ 3 to $ 11 billion.
                    (https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/blogs/2016/04/06/636626-zatrati-turnir-futbolu)
                    Quote: Jerk
                    in the USA, where they like to cut more

                    Corruption Perception Index:
                    USA - 18th place
                    Russia - 135 place
                    I agree that such positions are not the true state of affairs, but we see all these financial investigations, like the anti-corruptionist Zakharchenko and other ghouls. We read about the salaries of our officials and American ones. So "maybe love" is not about America.
                    1. Jerk
                      Jerk 12 November 2018 12: 01
                      0
                      Oh, I don’t have to .. An example of at least one World Cup that has failed There were none. And about corruption ideals - generally bullshit, if corruption in the Russian Federation is bribes, then corruption in the USA is pushing power to the root of the purchased official, i.e. it is not one-time, but systemic. Compare the scale of a single bribe even to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation and the election of the representative of the Navy lobby Trump as president? 4 for 700 lard of the military budget - only a defense industry, who do you compare this to? With Serdyukov? laughing That's all your rating in colors ...
                      1. snake
                        snake 12 November 2018 15: 13
                        -2
                        Quote: Jerk
                        An example of at least one failed World Cup?

                        https://lenta.ru/articles/2014/07/15/worldcup/
                        Brazil, with all its backwardness, is still a deeply football country. Losses, losses, but certain long-term benefits from the tournament are likely to be received. In Russia, the situation is likely to be similar to the South African one, where the income from the championship turned out to be 20 times less than expected in Brazil. With the only amendment, that, according to the current budget, many times more money will be spent on the World Cup in our country. (C)
                        Also:
                        2010 South Africa

                        FIFA was the real winner in the championship, which was held in South Africa, as its profit amounted to $ 3,36 billion.

                        However, for the host country, this event turned out to be a financial disappointment.

                        The country invested $ 3,9 billion for the organization of the championship, including $ 1,3 billion for the construction of stadiums, and the rest for infrastructure development (rail, airports, highways).

                        However, only half of the estimated number of fans arrived in the country, each of whom brought the country, according to economists, $ 13 thousand.

                        During the championship, economic growth in the country slowed down from 4,6% to 2.6%.
                    2. sharp-lad
                      sharp-lad 12 November 2018 21: 51
                      -1
                      The legalized lobbying of interests for a fraction does not reduce small corruption, but hides it. hi
                    3. NordUral
                      NordUral 13 November 2018 18: 59
                      0
                      With all my rejection of this "our" government, I will nevertheless make an amendment - we have the purest and blatant corruption, and in the States there is polished lobbying, the same corruption, but very civilized.
                  3. LSA57
                    LSA57 12 November 2018 12: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: Jerk
                    The World Cup was not unprofitable, even though they were not even conducted in the Russian Federation,

                    then for the holding of various World Cups and Olympics, such a battle is underway. Presidents are involved
                    1. sharp-lad
                      sharp-lad 12 November 2018 21: 54
                      +1
                      Prestige is also not cheap. hi
          2. mr_Flint
            mr_Flint 12 November 2018 16: 58
            +1
            Your people died because your friends accidentally killed them. It is very difficult to admit this fact, it breaks the familiar picture of the world. Therefore, it is easier to shift from a sick head to a healthy one
        2. SSR
          SSR 12 November 2018 10: 15
          +2
          Quote: serpent
          But did not the West use the same rhetoric in relation to Russia, when all sorts of Basaevs / Gelaevs were destroyed in Chechnya?

          Yeah, and also "people's" khattabs, Afghans and negroes and all for the people's money and were treated in all sorts of Turkey and Germany.
          No need to mix everything together.
          Phosphorus bombs "exceptional" also inflicted strikes "exclusively" on terrorists in residential areas in which civilians accidentally found themselves ... although they could have simply bombed without white phosphorus ...
          1. snake
            snake 12 November 2018 10: 28
            -4
            Quote: SSR
            Yeah, and also "people's" khattabs, Afghans and negroes and all for the people's money and were treated in all sorts of Turkey and Germany.

            Under the Union, there were military advisers in Palestine, in Afghanistan, in Vietnam. So what? In any modern conflict, someone helps someone with something.
            Quote: SSR
            Phosphorus bombs "exceptional" also inflicted strikes "exclusively" on terrorists in residential areas in which civilians accidentally found themselves ... although they could have simply bombed without white phosphorus ...

            Listen, I’m not saying that Israel is right, but the Palestinians are not. Everyone there has their own truth.
            1. igorbrsv
              igorbrsv 12 November 2018 11: 40
              0
              Plus, in this operation, at least this time, the civilian population was not injured.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 12 November 2018 12: 17
              -2
              Quote: serpent
              Everyone there has their own truth.

              This is nonsense, no "everyone has their own truth". Truth is one for all.
              1. snake
                snake 12 November 2018 15: 05
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                no "everyone has their own truth". Truth is one for all.

                The word “truth” is also conventionally used in the meaning of “truth”, although this term is due to the subjective perception of the truth itself.
                Despite the fact that the concept of “truth” is used in the meaning of “truth,” it is more commonplace and sometimes acquires an emotional coloring, supplied with such epithets as “bitter,” “terrible,” or “sweet.” In addition, if “truth” refers to a person’s subjective perception of truth, then “several truths” can be said.
                Wikipedia.
                Uh-huh. I am absolutely sure that in your opinion it is "true", it is only when you consider certain things to be "true". But how many people, so many opinions.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 14
                  -3
                  Quote: serpent
                  Uh-huh. I am absolutely sure that in your opinion it is "true", it is only when you consider certain things to be "true".

                  This is all demagoguery, my opinion is just an interpretation of the truth.
                  Quote: serpent
                  But how many people, so many opinions.

                  But the truth is one at all.
                  1. Consultant
                    Consultant 12 November 2018 18: 20
                    +8
                    Quote: Setrac
                    true one at all

                    Correct slightly:


                    I hope the idea is clear.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 26
                      -9
                      Quote: Consultant
                      I hope the idea is clear.

                      The idea is fundamentally wrong.
                      On the blue wall is a shadow from the truth and on the yellow wall is a shadow from the truth. The subject is not a circle and not a square, but a cylinder.
                      On this stupid demotivator, the terms are simply misused
                      1. Consultant
                        Consultant 12 November 2018 18: 45
                        +6
                        Quote: Setrac
                        On this stupid demotivator, the terms are simply misused

                        I remember we have already talked about the terms with you laughing

                        Even Vika, and she does not agree with you in this case:

                        In the meaning of “truth”, the word “truth” is also conventionally used, although this term is determined subjective perception the very truth

                        Thus, it turns out that "truth" is subjective (and there can be many "truths" - bitter, sweet, liquid ... gaseous), but the truth is still one.

                        Like this wink
                      2. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 51
                        -8
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Even Vika, and she does not agree with you in this case

                        Alas, "vika" is often wrong.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        The word “truth” is also conventionally used in the meaning of “truth”, although this term is due to the subjective perception of the truth itself.

                        All our knowledge of this universe is subjective, including subjective representations of truth and truth.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        I remember we have already talked about the terms with you

                        There is no topic for conversation, you will again call white black and black white. The cylinder is depicted on the demotivator - this is true, but the reflection on the two walls in the form of a circle and a square does not reflect the truth, but only partially describes the subject.
                        A cylinder is not a circle or a square; you will not say the opposite! And if you call the cylinder around - it will not be true.
                      3. Consultant
                        Consultant 12 November 2018 18: 56
                        +6
                        Quote: Setrac
                        you will again call white black and black white

                        No. This again you will cast a shadow on the fence. Do you have this professional, or purely a hobby?

                        Quote: Setrac
                        A cylinder is not a circle or a square, but you will not say otherwise

                        I won’t, of course. But from one (subjective) point of view, he is visible like a circle, on the other hand, no less subjective - like a rectangle.

                        The first and second seers, telling you the true truth about what they are currently watching, will disperse in the testimony. Despite the fact that each of them tells you the truth.

                        Like this wink
                      4. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 November 2018 19: 01
                        -6
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Do you have this professional, or purely a hobby?

                        Hobby.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        The first and second seers, telling you the true truth about what they are currently watching, will disperse in the testimony.

                        This is not at all true, both observers will see an object - a cylinder and call it a cylinder - unless of course they are familiar with such a term. However, if they look at the shadows, then one will see a circle, and the other will see a square, but the truth is that the cylinder will remain a cylinder, regardless of the delusions of observers.
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                      14. snake
                        snake 12 November 2018 22: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        That's enough for me. Chur me, chur

                        And he is strong, isn't he? If in life Setrac there were exams in philosophy and geometry, then I’m sure he passed them all. Stupidly chattered teachers. laughing
                      15. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 November 2018 18: 38
                        -2
                        Quote: serpent
                        And he is strong, isn't he? If in the life of Setrac exams took place in philosophy and geometry, then, I am sure - he passed them all. Stupidly chattered teachers.

                        There is no Gridasov, here is the Consultant and came under the distribution. In truth, at first I thought that he (the Consultant) was arguing out of love for art.
                      16. snake
                        snake 14 November 2018 10: 41
                        +1
                        I don’t know who Gridasov is, I’m still a newbie on the site, but the fact that the Consultant is a standard of adequacy compared to you, there can already be two opinions.
                      17. Setrac
                        Setrac 14 November 2018 18: 48
                        -2
                        Quote: serpent
                        I don’t know who Gridasov is, I’m still new to the site

                        Everything is ahead of you, I hope it has not been banned.
                        Quote: serpent
                        Compared to you, a consultant is a standard of adequacy; there can already be no two opinions.

                        There may be "two" opinions and three and four, you are again mistaken, limiting others to only two options.
                      18. snake
                        snake 12 November 2018 22: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Alas, "vika" is often wrong.

                        Alas, but not in this case.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        All our knowledge of this universe is subjective, including subjective representations of truth and truth.

                        Now, you yourself finally got to the point that they are trying to explain to you. And since, according to your own words, the truth is subjective, then "Vika" once again sends you greetings:
                        Subjectivity is an expression of the ideas of a person (a thinking subject) about the world, his point of view, feelings, beliefs and desires. (wikipedia). And there are a great many points of view and, in fact, "truths".
                      19. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 November 2018 18: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: serpent
                        And the points of view, and in fact, "truths" - a great many.

                        Many opinions are many delusions, not many truths. All this deception about the fact that "everyone has their own truth" was invented by criminals to justify their crimes. Hitler had "his own truth", which turned out to be a lie, the United States now has its own truth, which is not true. All this is just a hoax, like Wikipedia - which is an American site and American propaganda on it.
                      20. snake
                        snake 14 November 2018 10: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Hitler had his own truth, which turned out to be a lie

                        No. It's like "A successful mutiny won't be called a mutiny." If, God forbid, Hitler had won, then from the point of view of the victorious Germany, he would have been right. And the Nazi idea would be perceived precisely as "truth". Well, how is it? After all, the subhumans were defeated? So "Gott mit uns", power is in truth, truth is in power and all that.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        All this is just a hoax, like Wikipedia - which is an American site and American propaganda on it.

                        Indeed, everything is a hoax. The computer from which you print your passages, computer software, the Internet is a complete American deception. And only the venerable Setrac - the prophet and herald of truth.
                      21. Setrac
                        Setrac 14 November 2018 18: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: serpent
                        If, God forbid, Hitler would have won, then from the point of view of victorious Germany he would have been right.

                        Not at all.
                        Quote: serpent
                        the Nazi idea would be perceived precisely as "truth".

                        But this was not true.
                        Quote: serpent
                        The computer from which you print your passages, computer software, the Internet is a complete American deception.

                        How does this idiotic phrase prove you are right? No way !!! Just stupidity said publicly, in no way connected with the topic.
                        Quote: serpent
                        And only the venerable Setrac is the prophet and herald of truth.

                        And you don’t need to be some kind of herald to understand that in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria - the United States was wrong, even though they (apparently you) think the opposite.
                      22. snake
                        snake 15 November 2018 06: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        And you don’t need to be some kind of herald to understand that in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria - the United States was wrong, even though they (apparently you) think the opposite.

                        Well, I told you that the truest "truth" is when you think so. The rest of the opinions do not interest you. What can I say, egocentrism did not appear yesterday. No wonder you are not alone. In any case, it's time to end this offtopic. My regards. hi
                      23. Setrac
                        Setrac 15 November 2018 18: 25
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        Well, I told you that the truest "truth" is when you think so.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        And you don’t need to be some kind of herald to understand that in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria - the United States was wrong, even though they (apparently you) think the opposite.

                        Apparently you think that in Yugoslavia the Americans were right! And also in Afghanistan, Grenada and many other countries. I understand that there are many halftones in the world, but sometimes everything is clear, white is white and black is black.
                      24. snake
                        snake 15 November 2018 19: 49
                        0
                        In their own right, absolutely true. If you are a superpower, then you just need to nip everyone around. It’s like in a flock of animals, an alpha male from time to time sets a rake to beta and omega. Of course, from the point of view of omega and bet, this is unfair (i.e. not the truth).
                      25. Setrac
                        Setrac 15 November 2018 21: 12
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        It’s like in a flock of animals, an alpha male from time to time sets a rake to beta and omega.

                        Since you have applied such a comparison, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that in this case beta and omegas did not encroach on the alpha's leadership and suffered "for the loot", that is, if you use your comparison, then alpha "ate" beta and omega - which is absolutely unacceptable in flock.
                        Let me remind you that the United States unleashed wars against these countries on the basis of FALSE charges - that is, they were categorically wrong. The devil will remain the devil, as if his lawyers did not puff up.
                      26. snake
                        snake 15 November 2018 21: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Let me remind you that the United States unleashed wars against these countries on the basis of FALSE charges - that is, they were categorically wrong.

                        You know, as in Krylov's fable "The Wolf and the Lamb": Are you to blame for the fact that I want to eat ...?
                        And here is Thucydith:
                        “Rightness acquires significance only in a dispute of equal strength. [While] The strong one does what he can, and the weak one endures what he must endure. “

                        Quote: Setrac
                        The devil will remain the devil, as if his lawyers did not puff up.

                        The devil will remain the devil, because everything needs an antithesis. Including to God. Otherwise, how will you comprehend "God's truth" if you have nothing to compare with?
                      27. Setrac
                        Setrac 15 November 2018 22: 17
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        The devil will remain the devil, because everything needs an antithesis. Including God.

                        God does not need an antithesis; man needs an antithesis of God.
                        (remark simply out of harm)
                        Quote: serpent
                        “Rightness acquires significance only in a dispute of equal strength.

                        We need to look for the moment when we went from the truth to the truth, which is not the subject of a dispute.
                        Quote: serpent
                        You know, as in Krylov's fable "The Wolf and the Lamb": Are you to blame for the fact that I want to eat ...?

                        The truth is that the wolf wants to eat, and not that the lamb stirs up the water.
                      28. snake
                        snake 15 November 2018 22: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        God does not need an antithesis; man needs an antithesis of God.

                        God needs a man. Man needs the antithesis of God. Therefore: God also needs an antithesis, albeit indirectly.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        We need to look for the moment when we went from the truth to the truth, which is not the subject of a dispute.

                        I still cannot understand what you mean by the word "truth". True? Morality? Russian truth (this transcendental interpretation of the highest justice)? Or is it true in the sense - reliable information? In any case, nothing is absolutely certain. At least for such a limited being like a person.
                      29. Setrac
                        Setrac 16 November 2018 20: 27
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        God needs a man. Man needs the antithesis of God. Therefore: God also needs an antithesis, albeit indirectly.

                        Well, if only that way - very indirectly. There is a controversial question - does God need a man.
                        Quote: serpent
                        I still cannot understand what you mean by the word "truth".

                        Truth is a definite concept. Red is red, not green, and there can be no ambiguous interpretation here. And an idiotic phrase like "everyone has their own truth" implies that for some it is not red, but green, blue or purple. In fact, color is just wavelength - and it's the same for everyone who looks.
                      30. snake
                        snake 16 November 2018 23: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        There is a controversial question - does God need a man.

                        Once created, then - needed? Is logical.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Red is red, not green, and there can be no ambiguous interpretation here. And an idiotic phrase like "everyone has their own truth" implies that for some it is not red, but green, blue or purple.

                        How do you know that, for example, I do not perceive red as yellow? It's just that from birth (for example) I see everything red as yellow, and I think that this is real red. Color blindness exists after all.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        In fact, color is simply a wavelength - and it is one for all who would not look.

                        Soooo ... It seems to be clear now: Truth is (in your opinion) the truth. In this case, a scientific truth. Correct if I did not catch up again. Regarding the constancy of the wavelength and its perception: In different physical conditions, for example, in extreme conditions such as a black hole, or for example from the perspective of the fourth dimension, this wavelength can take such bizarre shapes that we have never even dreamed of.
                      31. Consultant
                        Consultant 16 November 2018 23: 43
                        -2
                        I apologize for violating your tête-à-tête, but this:

                        Quote: serpent
                        length waves can take such bizarre forms

                        IMHO, worthy of the great Gridasov. Something not to see him, by the way, broke again, or what? laughing
                      32. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 22: 19
                        0
                        "The paradox of the pole and barn"read in Wiki please. There the length just takes bizarre forms.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        IMHO, worthy of the great Gridasov.

                        Well, for a local legend such ...
                      33. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2018 22: 30
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        Well, for a local legend such ...

                        Scientist. Physicist, by the way. repeat
                      34. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 22: 53
                        0
                        Real physicist or from the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences?
                      35. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2018 22: 59
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        Real physicist or from the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences?

                        No idea. From Ukraine, sort of.
                      36. Consultant
                        Consultant 17 November 2018 22: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: serpent
                        Well, for a local legend such ..

                        https://topwar.ru/user/gridasov/
                        Read carefully - people brains brains - only the way laughing

                        For example:
                        https://topwar.ru/65992-mocart-ot-nauki-lev-davidovich-landau.html#comment-id-3866281

                        Then "facts" were in vogue.
                      37. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 22: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Read carefully - people brains brains - only the way

                        Thanks, I will get acquainted.
                        UPD: I just read a couple of comments, but I was already impressed - a block! Fundamentally, brains ahem ...
                      38. Setrac
                        Setrac 17 November 2018 00: 28
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        How do you know that, for example, I do not perceive red as yellow? It's just that from birth (for example) I see everything red as yellow, and I think that this is real red. Color blindness exists after all.

                        Exactly, you can see red as a shade of gray, but not as yellow, there are no diseases that shift the spectrum of light, while red will remain red. But you may not be human - then you can see everything in a different spectrum. However, the color is only information about the wavelength and let red be called by an alien from another planet in a different way - but this will remain red.
                        Quote: serpent
                        In different physical conditions, for example, in extreme conditions such as a black hole, or, for example, from the perspective of the fourth dimension, this wavelength can take such bizarre shapes that we have never even dreamed of.

                        You are directly tempting me to consider this issue in more detail. Alas, the physics of black holes is as yet an unconfirmed theory.
                        Quote: serpent
                        The truth is (in your opinion) the truth.

                        Things are a little more complicated. Truth is information about truth. Truth - the subjective opinion of a person about the truth and in view of the imperfection of a person - cannot be equal to the truth, but only approaches it as much as possible. However, if the "truth" does not correspond to the truth, then this is no longer true, but a lie - this is the question of the "multitude" of truths, which each has its own.
                        Thus, if you call red red - this is the truth as close as possible to the truth. If you are color blind - you will call red - a shade of gray - this will also be true, although more distant from the truth.
                        However, if you have normal vision and see red - red, but at the same time undertake to assert that it is yellow - then this is an obvious lie, and not "your truth, which everyone has their own", as the user with the nickname "Consultant" tried to prove to me.
                      39. Consultant
                        Consultant 17 November 2018 00: 46
                        -2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Truth ... cannot be equal to the truth ... However, if the "truth" does not correspond to the truth, then this is no longer the truth, but a lie

                        Um ... so do you think truth is never true (no matter how much you approach her, 0.999 (9) <> 1).

                        That is, in your opinion it turns out that the truth in nature does not existand there is truth and many different lies, some of which are more like truth, some are less ... but that and the other, and no less - a lie belay

                        Quote: Setrac
                        this is an obvious lie, not "your truth, which everyone has their own"

                        Man, you got confused laughing

                        Quote: Setrac
                        the user with the nickname "Consultant" tried to prove to me

                        I swore to you to prove anything. You are too much for me, umm ... finely organized. Again, the past because of you to catch - a lot of honor to you hi
                      40. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 22: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Alas, the physics of black holes is as yet an unconfirmed theory.

                        Well, what about the wave-particle dualism of the electron? And a particle and a wave at the same time? And the Heisenberg principle, when by measuring the speed of an electron, you can not measure its position? And the Necker cube or the Impossible trident in the end? But let's leave physics aside. I had to stay within the framework of philosophy. You and I have drifted very far from the original theme, namely, the Two Middle East "truths": the Israeli and the Palestinian. And unlike physical concepts and quantities, there is a field for discussion of a rather moral and ethical nature. And here it is impossible to talk about any single truth.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        However, if you have normal vision and see red - red, but at the same time undertake to assert that it is yellow - then this is an obvious lie, and not "your truth, which everyone has their own",

                        But how can you determine that my red color is not lighter or darker than yours? I have been living my whole life and see red as yellow and this is my truth.
                      41. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2018 22: 57
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        I have been living my whole life and see red as yellow and this is my truth.

                        It is necessary to connect a control device to your eyeball. Then everything will be simple and clear. And then, according to your version, it may turn out that everyone sees in a certain color, if I see a black man red, then you have it green, and someone else has blue, only we all consider it black together. laughing
                      42. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 23: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        It is necessary to connect a control device to your eyeball.

                        So there is no such device. It is not yet possible to look at the world through the eyes of another person. And yes, it is likely that the colors for each person are different. Eye sticks responsible for color vary in number in different people.
                      43. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2018 23: 12
                        +1
                        Well, at least you can even distinguish darkness from the light by observing the expansion of the pupils. It seems like a tried and tested method. And how to distinguish colors - the devil knows. I remember one colonel who was color-blind was shown on the box, he knew all the colors in shades, and he went through all the medical commissions.
                      44. Consultant
                        Consultant 17 November 2018 23: 21
                        -2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        it may turn out that everyone sees in a certain color, if I see a black man red, then you have it green, and someone else has blue, only we all consider it black

                        IMHO is still more fun: everyone can see anything. But, since he has been accustomed to call red from childhood - red, not green, he will be so call... Regardless of his inner ... impressions that his pair of "eyes - brain" generates when contemplating this red. Therefore, we will never know what this individual actually sees. laughing
                      45. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 23: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Consultant
                        IMHO is still more fun: everyone can see anything.

                        Yes Yes. In general, I read somewhere that, hypothetically, in cats because of the "cat's firmware" of the brain, a person can be perceived as just a little abnormal, strange and long, but a cat.
                      46. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2018 23: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Therefore, we will never know what this individual actually sees.

                        So I am about the same. Well, okay with color, but if you go further. With lines, for example. Where one circle will be a square. That's it, I got to the point.
                      47. Consultant
                        Consultant 17 November 2018 23: 42
                        -2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        one circle has a square

                        Well, from different points of view, even a cylinder, for example, can be seen both as a circle and as a rectangle.
                        And if you take a thread of a pseudo-rhombocubo-octahedron, for example ... belay

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        That's it, I got to the point

                        But with a point - more difficult ... a point, it is - a point ... and sha laughing
                      48. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 23: 51
                        0
                        Remember the synesthetics who perceive color to taste, and sounds like color, etc.
                      49. Setrac
                        Setrac 18 November 2018 11: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        With lines, for example. Where one circle will be a square. That's it, I got to the point.

                        It’s you who have become entangled in yourself, no one called a circle a square.
                      50. Setrac
                        Setrac 17 November 2018 23: 05
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        Well, what about the particle-wave duality of the electron? And particle and wave at the same time?

                        This question generally casts doubt on the reality of our universe. The physics of the world can depend on the fact of observation only in computer simulation.
                        Quote: serpent
                        Two Middle East "truths": Israeli and Palestinian. And unlike physical concepts and quantities, there is a field for discussion of a rather moral and ethical nature. And here it is impossible to talk about any single truth.

                        In fact, the truth here is simple, Darwinistic, whoever won is right. Natural selection in action. But we are not looking for easy solutions in the search for truth ?! Jews were helped from outside - which violates the principles of natural selection - and in this matter the truth is not for the Jews.
                        Quote: serpent
                        I have been living my whole life and see red as yellow and this is my truth.

                        I think that you are deceiving me and you see everything just like everyone else, the example is incorrect - because this is an obvious lie.
                        Quote: serpent
                        You and I have drifted very far from the original theme, namely, the two Middle East "truths": the Israeli and the Palestinian.

                        Jews composed a false story and, based on this false story, seized lands that supposedly belonged to them in antiquity. It is clear that this is all a lie and the truth in this matter is on the side of the Palestinians.
                      51. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 23: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        This question generally casts doubt on the reality of our universe.

                        But does the inviolability and invariance of truth / truth not set?
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Jews were helped from outside - which violates the principles of natural selection - and in this matter the truth is not for the Jews.

                        Didn’t they help the Palestinians?
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Jews composed a false story and, based on this false story, seized lands that supposedly belonged to them in antiquity.

                        Listen, history is such an unreliable science that it’s extremely difficult for ordinary non-historians / non-archaeologists to verify historical facts. What can I say, before our eyes history is being rewritten. Ukraine writes one story, Russia - another, West - third.
                      52. Setrac
                        Setrac 17 November 2018 23: 26
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        But does the inviolability and invariance of truth / truth not set?

                        It doesn’t pose, knowledge does not carry any threat, people carry a threat.
                        Quote: serpent
                        Didn’t they help the Palestinians?

                        Indirectly, and not directly as Jews.
                        Quote: serpent
                        What can I say, before our eyes history is being rewritten. Ukraine writes one story, Russia - another, West - third.

                        I note that they are all false.
                        Quote: serpent
                        history is such an unreliable science that it is extremely difficult for ordinary non-historians / non-archaeologists to verify historical facts

                        In fact, everything is quite easy. It is only necessary to understand on the basis of what they (historians) draw their conclusions - in order to understand that we are being deceived.
                      53. snake
                        snake 17 November 2018 23: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Indirectly, and not directly as Jews.

                        Yeah. You gracefully call the Arab-Israeli zaruby "mediated aid".
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I note that they are all false.

                        For you, perhaps. But you think so. After all, you don’t want to say that you are the very supermind that sees exclusively absolute truth / truth?
                        Quote: Setrac
                        In fact, everything is quite easy. It is only necessary to understand on the basis of what they (historians) draw their conclusions - in order to understand that we are being deceived.

                        For example - the Battle of Kulikovo. Some historians say it was. Others do not. What do you want me to organize an archaeological expedition?
                      54. Setrac
                        Setrac 18 November 2018 11: 29
                        -1
                        Quote: serpent
                        For example - the Battle of Kulikovo. Some historians say it was. Others do not. What do you want me to organize an archaeological expedition?

                        As to whether or not it was a difficult question. But the fact that her description is a lie is for sure. For a medieval state to send such a mass of people to the Don is fantastic. I am on the side of those historians who claim that the Kulikovo battle was somewhere near Moscow. Militias can only fight under the walls of their city.
                        Quote: serpent
                        Yeah. You gracefully call the Arab-Israeli zaruby "mediated aid".

                        It’s just that you separated the Palestinians from the rest of the Arabs, I don’t do that.
                        Quote: serpent
                        After all, you don’t want to say that you are the very supermind that sees exclusively absolute truth / truth?

                        There is no need to be overmind. History - the most powerful weapon of propaganda - cannot be true by definition, because it fulfills the order of the government.
                      55. snake
                        snake 18 November 2018 11: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        But the fact that her description is a lie is for sure.

                        The description that is possible on Wikis. But there is no true description. Some assumptions: near Moscow, near Tula, etc.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        It’s just that you separated the Palestinians from the rest of the Arabs, I don’t do that.

                        Just the same - no. I didn't separate. I presented the Arab-Israeli conflicts precisely as direct assistance to the "Palestinian brothers".
                        Quote: Setrac
                        History - the most powerful weapon of propaganda - cannot be true by definition, because it fulfills the order of the government.

                        And there is. History is a powerful weapon. And for Israel. And for Palestine. Which of them is the leader in fraud is a god of news.
                      56. Setrac
                        Setrac 18 November 2018 12: 59
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        And there is. History is a powerful weapon. And for Israel. And for Palestine. Which of them is the leader in fraud is a god of news.

                        I think that the Jews will be better ... lying, where to them to the Palestinians.
                      57. snake
                        snake 18 November 2018 13: 45
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I think that the Jews will be better ... lying, where to them to the Palestinians.

                        If better, then not by much. After all, kindred Semitic peoples.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. novobranets
                novobranets 12 November 2018 16: 54
                +2
                Quote: Setrac
                . True - she is one at all.

                Everyone has their own truth, but the truth is only one
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 13
                  -4
                  Stupid phrase
                  1. Consultant
                    Consultant 12 November 2018 18: 20
                    0
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Stupid phrase

                    Read the illustration above, recommend wink
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 53
                      -5
                      Quote: Consultant
                      Read the illustration above, recommend

                      It is impossible not to accept the faith of someone else’s wisdom, in most cases it is disguised stupidity.
                  2. novobranets
                    novobranets 13 November 2018 11: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Stupid phrase

                    Say this to the ancient Greeks, otherwise they do not know.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 13 November 2018 18: 32
                      0
                      Quote: novobranets
                      Say this to the ancient Greeks, otherwise they do not know.

                      Apparently you wanted to say "Hellenes", because the ancient Greeks were not in nature.
                      When did fools admit their stupidity?
      5. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 12 November 2018 21: 42
        +2
        And yet, it is time for Russia itself to learn from the Israelis not to turn the right cheek, having received plop on the left. hi
  3. Evil543
    Evil543 12 November 2018 07: 30
    +1
    Well, they would fly to themselves, bombed out of habit. So no, we decided to take a walk on foot, the guys warned you that this is fraught with losses, Hamas trained on igilovites repeat
    1. parma
      parma 12 November 2018 08: 31
      +4
      And you are not confusing Hamas with anyone? In what areas did these subjects hunt ISIS?
      1. Evil543
        Evil543 12 November 2018 08: 45
        +1
        Oops, you are right, with hezami, confused. Thank you hi
  4. Gray brother
    Gray brother 12 November 2018 07: 31
    +6
    Strange, for some reason the invaders there were not met with flowers.
    1. 41 REGION
      41 REGION 12 November 2018 08: 23
      +1
      Quote: Gray Brother
      Strange, for some reason the invaders there were not met with flowers.

      Probably decided that flowers would bring to the graves wink
  5. Sadko88
    Sadko88 12 November 2018 07: 35
    +1
    Because it is weak Israeli politicians to go against the wind to change their relationship with their neighbors. Cowardly all ... sad
    1. XXXIII
      XXXIII 12 November 2018 13: 57
      0
      Quote: Sadko88
      Because it is weak Israeli politicians to go against the wind to change their relationship with their neighbors. Cowardly all ... sad

      Tame "terrorists" .... wink
  6. svp67
    svp67 12 November 2018 07: 39
    +8
    What can you say, another "peace day" in the Middle East
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 12 November 2018 09: 19
      +5
      Hi, hello! hi
      In the Gaza Strip, meanwhile, they said that Israel is hiding its real losses as a result of a military adventure.

      Hushing up the real number of losses - this was not even invented yesterday.
      Israeli special forces entered Gaza and suffered losses

      Reminds a banner of the times of the USSR before the visit of the Sword:
      "We will meet the uninvited guest with dignity!"
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 November 2018 09: 22
        +5
        pasha hi
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        Hushing up the real number of losses - this was not even invented yesterday.

        With Israel, this number does not work. There is a very united society. And about any losses it becomes known very quickly.
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 12 November 2018 09: 26
          +5
          Quote: svp67
          There is a very united society. And about any losses it becomes known very quickly.

          In this matter is not strong, I rely on the opinion of knowledgeable people. But even so, it is more likely an exception, only confirming my words about concealing losses.
  7. Hto tama
    Hto tama 12 November 2018 07: 40
    +2
    Oh, something God's chosen about the loss is lying, otherwise Netanyahu would not have climbed at such a speed from Paris, or did he quarrel with Putin? No.
    1. Detective
      Detective 12 November 2018 07: 48
      +8
      Quote: Hto tama
      otherwise he wouldn’t have climbed Netanyahu from Paris so fast, or would he have a fight with Putin?

      Netanyahu is not up to a fight! He would generally get to Putin, squeeze through ...
      1. Hto tama
        Hto tama 12 November 2018 09: 14
        +2
        Well, as the media say, squeezed in and even talked briefly, or maybe sent on an erotic journey, they won’t tell us about it. I’m actually talking about losses, well, the heads of state do not stop their foreign trips for insignificant reasons request
    2. igor67
      igor67 12 November 2018 15: 19
      +1
      reports that the funeral of 41-year-old Lieutenant Colonel M., who died in Gaza, will be held at the cemetery of the Druze village of Hurfeish at 15:00. The publication notes that relatives of the deceased were notified about the incident at 3 a.m. The deceased lieutenant colonel was drusen,
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 12 November 2018 19: 47
        0
        Was the underground from Saeret ha Druzim? Sorry, I don’t know how to spell.
  8. Bellerophon
    Bellerophon 12 November 2018 07: 40
    +3
    Prussia grew out of the core, Israel - from HATE, the State of HIMERA.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 12 November 2018 10: 56
      +3
      The state is the largest instrument of violence against a person, but, unfortunately, humanity has not come up with anything better. hi
  9. rocket757
    rocket757 12 November 2018 07: 42
    +8
    There are no right people at all, only the faithful and the chosen ones! Antagonists are not in fact, but in their Wishlist!
    It seems that once again everyone wanted to fight .... there was no useful result, as always.
    1. Yarr
      Yarr 12 November 2018 08: 14
      +2
      And this time will tell.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 November 2018 08: 19
        +3
        Everything may be, only it did not start yesterday .... repetition, in their case, is not the mother of learning!
      2. Tersky
        Tersky 12 November 2018 08: 30
        +6
        Quote: Yarr
        0
        And this time will tell.

        It shows from 1948 of the year, either the watch is broken or the skis do not go ....
  10. Kuzkin Batyan
    Kuzkin Batyan 12 November 2018 08: 25
    +1
    In Syria, in the ass gave, do not give fly. Though in the gas they decided to shoot
  11. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 12 November 2018 08: 30
    +2
    The classic Israeli operation - they entered Gaza, killed someone there, announced that it was the commander of the battalion of the combat wing of Hamas, but what about their losses is very slurred.
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 12 November 2018 08: 41
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      Well, about my losses it is very slurred

      and the secrecy here is incomprehensible
      The IDF press service notes that the name of the deceased soldier will be announced later.

      Why should such secrets be cultivated? request
      1. Harry.km
        Harry.km 12 November 2018 09: 13
        -3
        Quote: LSA57
        Why should such secrets be cultivated?

        Well, for example, they do not inform while the identification procedure is being carried out, as an option, until they inform the relatives. Maybe something else needs to be done before the public announcement of the name of the deceased. IMHO.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 12 November 2018 11: 09
          +2
          Quote: Harry.km
          Well, for example, they don’t tell while the identification process is underway, as an option, until they inform relatives.

          but weak
          or are we only able to provoke?
          His family and close to the present moment notified.
          1. Harry.km
            Harry.km 12 November 2018 11: 19
            -1
            And weakly, for example, the message to which you are going to respond, read thoughtfully. I wrote my guess and started with the words "well, for example." If you are aware of the procedure for alerting the IDF in such cases, and in your opinion, it differs from what is happening in real life, then clarify. And just blurt out about secrecy ... Well, it’s not smart! And by the way, consider this my subjective evaluative opinion. I am not an expert in this matter. But after reading your message about secrecy, I decided to clarify what is actually the matter.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 12 November 2018 10: 57
        +2
        Quote: LSA57
        Quote: Aviator_
        Well, about my losses it is very slurred

        and the secrecy here is incomprehensible
        The IDF press service notes that the name of the deceased soldier will be announced later.

        Why should such secrets be cultivated? request

        To relatives did not learn about the loss from the press.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 12 November 2018 11: 11
          +1
          [quote = Krasnodar] So that relatives do not know about the loss from the press. [/ quote]
          know how to read ???? or headers only?
          [Quote]His family and friends so far have been notified. [/ Quote]
        2. Harry.km
          Harry.km 12 November 2018 11: 36
          -2
          to Krasnodar
          And for some reason Sergey did not blame you for provocations ... He just doubted your literacy ... What kind of double standards, don’t you find?)))
  12. bald
    bald 12 November 2018 08: 38
    +2
    I always reacted negatively to losses, but here, without wanting it, the positive outweighs it. Losses on the part of Israel would be much greater, if at all dared to poke, after the massive work of the Air Force. The whole region is already like a bone in the throat.
  13. Kubik_ machine gunner
    Kubik_ machine gunner 12 November 2018 08: 54
    +2
    Another thing is interesting, if they knew the location of the militants and the target, why didn’t they hit the air precisely?
    Why did you need to involve special forces? They were not able to provide a retreat from city buildings, it is difficult and losses are expected. Despite the blows of the "cover", of which there are about 40 .. that something is not right here, they do not finish saying something.
  14. Cheldon
    Cheldon 12 November 2018 09: 09
    +3
    Lieberman never played enough "soldiers" in childhood. And his son, by any chance, did not participate in this special operation? I wanted to do a Black September adventure. My condolences to the parents of the commandos.
  15. Professor
    Professor 12 November 2018 09: 17
    +1
    Israel nevertheless decided to conduct a land operation in the Gaza Strip.

    There was no land operation. There was reconnaissance by the forces of one unit.

    Earlier materials appeared in the media that one Israeli commando was captured

    Not in the media, but in the OBS. More precisely in Votsap.

    An officer of the special forces unit of the Israeli army was killed, another soldier was injured.

    The blessed memory of the soldier and the wounded will soon recover.

    In addition to the ground operation, the Israeli Air Force operation was conducted. In the Gaza Strip, at least 40 objects were attacked.

    Aviation worked in response to rocket fire on our territory. The terrorists fired 17 missiles at us, 3 were intercepted by the LCD, the rest fell in the open. There are no victims and destruction.

    Photos used:
    Facebook

    And who is the author of the article? Roma, are you chtol?
    1. musketon64
      musketon64 12 November 2018 09: 49
      0
      Oleg, I have never seen Israeli soldiers in camouflage. Is there any justification for this? Khaki stands out from the desert.
      1. BAI
        BAI 12 November 2018 10: 11
        +1
        In camouflage - special forces. It occurs (camouflage) even during special operations.
      2. Professor
        Professor 12 November 2018 10: 13
        +4
        Quote: musketone64
        Oleg, I have never seen Israeli soldiers in camouflage. Is there any justification for this? Khaki stands out from the desert.

        1. Camouflage was (in 1960's) and camouflage will be (new uniform).

        2. After 10 minutes in the desert or mud, clothing takes on the color of the environment.
        3. Maskhalata has not been canceled.


        https://klonik69.livejournal.com/160868.html

        Quote: NEOZ
        In the photo, a fighter with a knee pad on his left leg, but the machine gun holds his right .... a strange fighter ....

        So these are reservists and never special forces.

        PS
        And this is an Arab in Tsahal:
        1. musketon64
          musketon64 12 November 2018 11: 10
          0
          2. After 10 minutes in the desert or mud, the clothing takes on the color of the environment. It is clear now. But in our forests and meadows, where there is little dust, proper camouflage masks well. You can also apply paste to your face. And for the deserts in the Russian army, and others too, there is a special form for sand. So I was surprised, why hacks?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 12 November 2018 11: 22
            +6
            Operations are mostly overnight. The primary color must be dark. Any camouflage that helps during the day, unmask at night. And changing clothes every time is impossible.
  16. NEOZ
    NEOZ 12 November 2018 09: 39
    +1
    In the photo, a fighter with a knee pad on his left leg, but the machine gun holds his right .... a strange fighter ....
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 12 November 2018 11: 34
      +5
      It should be the other way around, you're right.
      The main position when shooting "in the field" is from the knee. When I served, I had a knee pad only on my right knee (it rests on the ground). And on the left he interferes - the elbow slips off the knee.
      And I put on the glove (bicycle black) only on my left hand - you fall on it after a dash.
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 12 November 2018 22: 06
        0
        Feel the preparation. hi
  17. jack
    jack 12 November 2018 09: 49
    +2
    Quote: The same Lech
    now blood enemies to the Jews increased

    By the way, there is unofficial evidence that not only Jews took part in the operation. And it is said about the killed and / or wounded officers.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 12 November 2018 10: 06
      +1
      Quote: Jack

      By the way, there is unofficial evidence that not only Jews took part in the operation. And it is said about the killed and / or wounded officers.

      Yes. The group commander died. Representative of the Druze community.

      The website karmel.co.il reports that the funeral of 41-year-old Lieutenant Colonel M., who died in Gaza, will take place at the cemetery of the Druze village of Khurfeish at 15 p.m. The name of the deceased is still banned from publication.
      The publication notes that relatives of the deceased were notified of the incident at 3 at one in the morning.



  18. brigadier
    brigadier 12 November 2018 10: 06
    +9
    Gaspada forum users, you with your violent reaction and exceptional love for Israel and the Jews repel any desire to participate in discussions concerning the Middle East. It will soon turn out that you will exclusively stigmatize, but nobody will care. Patience to you and ability to listen / read an alternative opinion.

    It was an intelligence gathering operation. Something went wrong. A shootout ensued. There are killed and wounded on both sides. That's all.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 November 2018 12: 22
      +4
      Quote: brigadir
      Patience to you and ability to listen / read an alternative opinion.

      And you go on a censor - there they will teach you tolerance and patience towards enemies.
      1. brigadier
        brigadier 12 November 2018 12: 55
        -2
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: brigadir
        Patience to you and ability to listen / read an alternative opinion.

        And you go on a censor - there they will teach you tolerance and patience towards enemies.

        So are we enemies?
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 12 November 2018 17: 17
          0
          Quote: brigadir
          So are we enemies?

          Take a walk on "Voronilay", there they will quickly and intelligibly explain to you that Russia is the enemy of Israel and all progressive humanity. And if you want to debate about this, you will be banned. Instantly.
          1. brigadier
            brigadier 12 November 2018 17: 58
            0
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Quote: brigadir
            So are we enemies?

            Take a walk on "Voronilay", there they will quickly and intelligibly explain to you that Russia is the enemy of Israel and all progressive humanity. And if you want to debate about this, you will be banned. Instantly.

            Well, not a friend, of course, but something like that is just the enemy! This is a clear search IMHO.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 12 November 2018 18: 15
          +1
          Quote: brigadir
          So are we enemies?

          Without a doubt, all American allies are our enemies, but you can call them as our president partners.
    2. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 13 November 2018 00: 08
      -1
      Plusanul, for health and endurance. I understand why the Israeli army is so, the officers are sitting on the VO and train endurance.
  19. Graz
    Graz 12 November 2018 10: 43
    0
    Netanyahu’s politics is a dead end from which one cannot leave, this person must leave otherwise Israel cannot change anything, all this will continue
    1. brigadier
      brigadier 12 November 2018 10: 50
      +3
      Quote: Graz
      Netanyahu’s politics is a dead end from which one cannot leave, this person must leave otherwise Israel cannot change anything, all this will continue

      Where will he go? He was elected in the election! If he loses in the next election, we will see.
    2. Professor
      Professor 12 November 2018 11: 08
      +5
      Quote: Graz

      Netanyahu’s politics is a dead end from which you cannot leave,

      Or maybe such a dead end suits us? The economy is on the rise, the terror in the pen ...
  20. Gerklim
    Gerklim 12 November 2018 11: 04
    +1
    Already a very aggressive dude, this Lieberman. He must behave more restrainedly. And such orders do not give in vain. So, Izril has enough enemies, and with each such trick there are more and more of them.
  21. Catfish
    Catfish 12 November 2018 14: 38
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    terror in the pen ...


    If ... And not only you. hi
  22. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 12 November 2018 14: 53
    +4
    According to the Israeli media (ynet), yesterday the IDF special unit crossed the border with Gaza, after which the soldiers moved to SUVs. The purpose of the operation, which was most likely carried out in several places in the Gaza Strip at once, was to damage the “quality ability” of the Hamas combat wing during the next round of conflict. According to Israeli military observers, a fairly large IDF unit disguised as Arabs fell into an organized ambush of the elite Hamas battalion. A unit commander was wounded, who later died of his wounds, and another officer. A cover group crossed the Gaza border after the start of the battle; a helicopter was raised to evacuate. The current detachment escaped from the ambush, destroying the battalion commander and six soldiers of the Palestinian battalion. Under mortar and machine-gun fire, the detachment reached the evacuation helicopter. The retreat was covered by planes and helicopters of Hale Avira. Palestinians fired MANPADS on helicopters. Helicopter heat traps were visible in Israel. The car in which the Israeli electronic equipment was located was destroyed from the air.
    The detachment returned to the country. The Islamic Jihad organization (leadership in Damascus) decided to launch a missile strike against Israel. Missiles were fired at night, two of them aimed at settlements, were shot down by the LCD.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 12 November 2018 17: 19
      -1
      Quote: Krasnodar
      According to Israeli military observers, a fairly large IDF unit disguised as Arabs fell into an organized ambush of the elite Hamas battalion.

      Yeah ... Write already that there is also a Hamas tank division.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 12 November 2018 17: 28
        0
        This is not for me, this is for ynet and the Hamas Al-Rai news agency laughing Or Arabic Maan
  23. 22 dmdc
    22 dmdc 12 November 2018 15: 55
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    Of course not. Until 1948 they called us Palestinians. The Arabs did not have a name then. It was only in 1964 that they began to be called "shabl filystyni" (the Palestinian people). Do you know who?

    Let them go home and now regret it many times.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 12 November 2018 17: 33
      +2
      This they wrote to the British))
    2. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 12 November 2018 22: 18
      0
      And where is the homeland of the Jews? They returned home.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. SS-18 Satan
    SS-18 Satan 14 November 2018 01: 03
    +2
    it seems in the Gaza Strip .. impunity for the Jews is over. kill civilians will no longer succeed.