The investigation put an end to the question associates Roslyakov

The Investigation Committee of Russia put an end to the question of the likely accomplices of student Vladislav Roslyakov, who arranged the shooting and the explosion at the Kerch Polytechnic College. According to the TFR, Roslyakov acted alone, according to the department website.

According to the Investigation Committee, in the case of Roslyakov, about 650 people were questioned, Roslyakov set out in detail both the adjacent territory and the college building on the day of the crime. Obtained evidence and evidence that recorded all of his actions. Based on the data, the investigation concluded that the student Roslyakov acted alone.

On the findings were reported to the head of the UK Alexander Bastrykin during a meeting held today in Simferopol.

At the moment, the investigation is engaged in a detailed study of Roslyakov's personality, his psychological state and the compilation of a psychological portrait. Assigned posthumous complex psychological and psychiatric forensic examination. In addition, there continues to be other, previously appointed examinations, a full-scale complex of investigative and operational actions is being carried out.

Earlier, it was suggested that Roslyakov, who opened fire at the Kerch College, which killed 20 people, may have accomplices who did not participate in the attack, but could help in preparing for it.

Comments

[bogart047]

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

Then the killer would have acted differently; he would have taken this into account and would have carried out his monstrous plan anyway.

[bogart047]

and how would he behave if he acted according to someone else's plan? What would he do? Would you just blow up and run away? So there would be fewer victims. Isn't that the point of reducing the number of victims?

[XXXIII]

Quote: bogart047

and how would he behave if he acted according to someone else's plan? What would he do? Would you just blow up and run away? So there would be fewer victims. Isn't that the point of reducing the number of victims?

I would have removed the teacher first, then I would have gone according to plan, and moreover, there could have been more victims from the increased anger, but I do not argue, I just looked from the other side. Of course, if the teacher was caught at the moment when the "roslyakov" began his aggressive actions, then there could really be fewer victims ...

[dr.star75]

And if all the teachers were armed? He was obviously not ready for the shootout. Most likely. He would go to another institution.

[Irokez]

Quote: dr.star75

And if all the teachers were armed?

And if all the children were armed?
Surely there would have appeared the leader of one group and the leader of another, and then they would have measured the strength and power of the arms of someone who went to the other institution to find out the relationship, or even the teachers would be punished for the deuces they were given.

[dr.star75]

Quote: Irokez

then teachers would be punished for the deuces that they put.

Teachers would already create their own organization, which would suppress such a student ......

[Irokez]

Quote: dr.star75

Teachers would already create their own organization to suppress such a student.

You are joking. There are 20 times more students and they are trickier and more insidious than sane people because children are unpredictable.

[faridg7]

Quote: dr.star75

Teachers would already create their own organization, which would suppress such a student ......

Here you are joking, and my wife, at competitions among teachers in pneumatic pistol shooting, made 27 out of 30 when she presented her dumbass student as a target.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: XXXIII

I would eliminate the teachers first, then I would go according to plan

First, how would he know that a teacher is armed if he carries a weapon covertly?
Secondly, where would he go dead?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: bogart047

and how would he behave if he acted according to someone else's plan? What would he do? Would you just blow up and run away?

Judging by the fact that many teachers also jumped out of the windows without worrying about what was with the students, the teacher would drop the trunk and go out the window ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Lara Croft

Judging by the fact that many teachers also jumped out of the windows without worrying about what was with the students, the teacher would drop the trunk and go out the window ...

You have confused warm with soft. An unarmed teacher has every right to "go out the window" in such a situation, but an armed teacher could well have shot a monster.

[LSA57]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

An unarmed teacher has every right to "go out the window" in such a situation,

how is it right? and throw students for slaughter ???
first of all he must ensure the evacuation of students.
maritime law to remind who is the last to leave a sinking ship?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: LSA57

how is it right? and throw students for slaughter ???

But is he obligated to die for strangers to him?

Quote: LSA57

First of all, he must ensure the evacuation of students.

To whom is obliged?

Quote: LSA57

maritime law to remind who is the last to leave a sinking ship?

You have beguiled something - the teacher is not the commander of the ship.
Remember, to demand something from a person can only be endowed with his authority. A disenfranchised person will not only not protect the rights of other people (including the right to life), but he will not be able to defend his own.

[LSA57]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

But is he obligated to die for strangers to him?

these are kids. their parents entrusted him

To whom is obliged?

to all who entrusted him with children

You have beguiled something - the teacher is not the commander of the ship.

both are responsible for the people entrusted to him.
although it’s useless to say something to a person who has his own skin closer.
a teacher who died for children would definitely not shake your hand

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: LSA57

these are kids. their parents entrusted him

Not him, but an educational institution. And why should a teacher die for some children there. These are not his children, even the offspring reflex will not work.

Quote: LSA57

to all who entrusted him with children

First, he did not take responsibility for the students; they were not given to the teacher, but to the institution. Secondly, with what fright should he die? Do you want to die yourself?

Quote: LSA57

both are responsible for the people entrusted to him.

Where is it written that the teacher should naked ... jump on the gun! ??

Quote: LSA57

although it’s useless to say something to a person who has his own skin closer.

So why didn’t you run with your bare hands at the villain? I went to the knife and the barrel and I know what it is? Once again - why should a teacher die in a deliberately hopeless situation? How will his death help save the lives of his students?
Or are you purely a little sick, yes (nowadays fashionable word) to please?

Quote: LSA57

a teacher who died for children would definitely not shake your hand

He died not for children and not instead of children, but with the children and did not affect the development of the situation. If he had a weapon, he could influence the situation, he could save the children, but he had no weapons and he died and did not save anyone.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And why should a teacher die for some children there. These are not his children, even the offspring reflex will not work.

-and why did you get that he had a COP - would protect them?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

-and why did you get that he had a COP - would protect them?

From the fact that in this case he would have opportunity protect children. Without self-defense weapons of hidden wearing in the current situation, the teacher had no opportunity to neutralize the villain. It turns out that everything is simple: there is a weapon - it is possible to protect someone even if you are not a hero by nature and not a superman by physical condition, there is no weapon - if you are a hero even three times, they will shoot you and you cannot protect and save anyone.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

With the fact that in this case he would have the opportunity to protect children.

-possibility-YES !!! but desire

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And why should a teacher die for some children there. These are not his children, even the offspring reflex will not work.

-That's very unlikely .....

[Machito]

Vague doubts torment that he was alone.
Look at similar crimes in America: it’s easier to buy weapons, more weapons and ammunition, fewer victims.
Like our maniacs cooler than American? Can we be proud?
Roslyakova clearly prepared for the attack, the ends, Internet correspondence, cleaned up communications.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: bogart047

and how would he behave if he acted according to someone else's plan? What would he do? Would you just blow up and run away? So there would be fewer victims. Isn't that the point of reducing the number of victims?

He would not have escaped in any case, because he went there to die. In America, everything is OK with weapons, but similar or monstrous shootings occur regularly. Moreover, much more often than ours. So the availability of weapons for adequate citizens is not a salvation from people who are tearing down the roof. Unfortunately.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

Then the killer would have acted differently; he would have taken this into account and would have carried out his monstrous plan anyway.

Here it is interesting, at least he needed to know that the teacher has a barrel, I don’t think that the owners of weapons often show their firearms. There is a chance from all sides, but everything happened differently ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Thunderbolt

when the killer would act differently, he would take it into account and still bring his monstrous plan to fruition.

And what, a man armed with a pistol has a neon sign over his head that says "I have a pistol"?

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And what, a man armed with a pistol has a neon sign over his head that says "I have a pistol"?

Appears if you are in a team. An educational institution is a large village where everyone knows everything about each other.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Appears if you are in a team. An educational institution is a large village where everyone knows everything about each other.

These are your speculations. If the teacher does not show his gun to the students (and any adequate person never shows his weapon to anyone), then they will never know whether the teacher is armed or not.

[LSA57]

Quote: Thunderbolt

An educational institution is a large village where everyone knows everything about each other.

and if you allow everyone, then in the work collective you won’t even conceal that you have a trunk.
and here a problem arises. you won’t leave it in the locker room. you can’t take it with you to the workshop. leave at home? then he doesn’t need it at all

[Consultant]

Quote: LSA57

and here a problem arises. you won’t leave it in the locker room. you can’t take it to the workshop with you

Oh well ... everything is solved easily: we start a small arms, we drag surveillance and alarm, we put security

[LSA57]

Quote: Consultant

Oh well ... everything is solved easily: we start a small arms, we drag surveillance and alarm, we put guards

imagine a picture. payday, there is a brigade with trunks at the ready. go somewhere to drink, word for word, "you respect" and away we go

[faridg7]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And what, a man armed with a pistol has a neon sign over his head that says "I have a pistol"?

Well, maybe a neon sign, but there are several signs of a change in behavior (we’ve been given a lecture on this topic, we can distinguish an armed person in the crowd)

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: faridg7

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And what, a man armed with a pistol has a neon sign over his head that says "I have a pistol"?

Well, maybe a neon sign, but there are several signs of a change in behavior (we’ve been given a lecture on this topic, we can distinguish an armed person in the crowd)

To do this, you need to have considerable operational experience or to be an ace practitioner. A man from the street will never guess whether someone nearby is armed.

[Edvid]

If the seller of cartridges called the police, then maybe the crime did not happen ...

[your1970]

Quote: Edvid

If the seller of cartridges called the police, then maybe the crime did not happen ...

-What would change? The district policeman came and asked:
- why do you need 250 cartridges?
-I’m going to the shooting range / hunting / I’ll put it in the safe !!!
And then what should the district police officer say next?
There are no restrictions on the storage of the LEGALLY acquired cartridges, and even in the transportation of the nuances only by certain modes of transport ...

[faridg7]

Yes, the seller in the store, after the fifth call to the police for the day, will be sent to hell, but most likely polite, "YOU". I buy 500 rounds from the store from time to time, and I'm far from the only such buyer. By your logic, when I buy a batch of wad-containers of 4000 pieces, I have to prove to the district police officer that I am not going to start the third world war?

[your1970]

I take 4-5-6 packs - I rarely visit the city .. in the safe cartridges there are still un shot 2013 years

[stalki]

And if every other parent had a trunk, there would be fewer teachers.

[Simargl]

Quote: stalki

And if every other parent had a trunk, there would be fewer teachers.

Injuries and long barrels are allowed. Something I did not hear about the mass executions of teachers by parents!
Only resonant Roslyakov for 100500 cases with illegal trunks for 50 years (since the tightening of nuts) ....

[stalki]

And in my school years, one offspring brought daddy's gun to school, because the girl did not dance, and later came with daddy’s grenade. It doesn’t matter who the parent is, the gangsters were clear. I mean, the child’s parental weapon can be, of course, due to the negligence of adults.

[Simargl]

Quote: stalki

brought daddy pistol to school, because the girl did not dance, and later with daddy grenade has come.

In the first case, took possession of due to negligence, and in the second - weapons that are generally prohibited for citizens. Where am I wrong?
Why do opponents of short-bar legalization confuse this with storage liberalization ?!
In my opinion, first of all, to adopt normal laws on the defense and protection of loved ones, then only legalize the Constitutional Court, while the owner must pass exams at least every 5 years and every 2 years - shooting and medical help.
And injuries - generally forbid!

[stalki]

When did we have normal legislation? A clear stump, if ideally as it should, then perhaps it would have pierced. But this is not in our century.

[Simargl]

Quote: stalki

When did we have normal legislation?

We must create! Otherwise, we will remain patience.
However, I am not talking about that. I refuted the first statement.

[dr.star75]

Quote: stalki

When did we have normal legislation?

Yes, more recently! The guns were sold on a hunting ticket, and Oh God! even small things! And were they stored? Very simply: on a clove in the hall. And there weren’t even any safes, and they didn’t even take a drug test, and they didn’t even inform the National Guard that they had gone hunting for 3 days! And how did the hunters not shoot everyone? Savages !

[_Sergei_]

Well, it was not recently, but about 50 years ago.

[stalki]

dr.star75

about people you are just not accurate from the word at all, then, at the time when it was, yes there were people, and now savages. I am observing this often. you understand democracy, you know the capitalist leaders. First, savages must be returned to moral purity, to explain what is good and what is bad. But then, then it will be later.

[Rakti-kali]

Storage rules and laws on self-defense in the Russian Federation are already normal.

[Polymer]

Normal laws are those that work. If the vast majority of citizens are ready to execute the law, then it will work. If not, you can write any wonderful laws you want, but they will be dead.
And here the question of ideology just arises. Not all life cases can be foreseen by laws - and it is precisely such gaps that are filled by ideology. When a person does not know whether he is currently breaking the law or not, he acts according to the ideology in which he was brought up. After all, the Criminal Code is not mentioned.
By the way, religion is a special case of ideology, respectively, and religious education.

[Ural-4320]

In general, once a quarter, I would have ordered to shoot a couple of clips of all owners in the shooting range. From the pros: all the owners are in plain sight, the cartridges cost money - whoever cannot afford it is without a weapon, regular shooting teaches responsibility. To whom all this "bagpipe" is not childish, he is without legal weapons.

[_Sergei_]

I would go shoot every month. Shop 7 rounds of 50r apiece. Only nowhere.

[Simargl]

Quote: Ural-4320

From the pros: all owners are in sight, cartridges of money cost - who can not afford, he is without a weaponRegular shooting accustoms responsibility.

5,6 LR - a penny. Even if at 100 / cartridge - this is 1600r - not very annoying. A trunk less than 20000 is unlikely to cost, but with certificates, permissions, training, etc. - under 40000 will come out. It's minimum.

[dr.star75]

Yes, calm down! We shot back in due time ...

[Simargl]

Quote: dr.star75

we shot back at the time ...

Well, it's you. You don’t have to decide for everyone.

[your1970]

and where to go to shoot? if the nearest shooting range is in 300 km? and fools to open shooting ranges at your price for owning an 40 pipe and a small obviously known number of people who want to buy a COP - is not observed?

[Simargl]

Quote: your1970

and where to go shoot?

If there is demand, there will be supply.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

and fools to open shooting ranges at your price for owning 40trub and a small obviously number of people who want to buy a COP - is not observed?

There are a lot of people who want to buy a cop. And the more owners of the COP, the higher the demand for shooting ranges, the more shooting ranges will open.

[your1970]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: your1970

and where to go shoot?

If there is demand, there will be supply.

- there is no demand, people don’t have such money en masse, but there is 15-20-30 people, no more. Will someone open the shooting range in such situations ???

Quote: Rakti-Kali

There are a lot of people who want to buy a cop.

-Do you think there are many people in the outback in a city with 20 000 people? I’m no more than 20 people with income that can allow people such entertainment ...
with so many people wanting a shot there will cost 1000 rubles ....

[The Siberian barber]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: stalki

brought daddy pistol to school, because the girl did not dance, and later with daddy grenade has come.

In the first case, took possession of due to negligence, and in the second - weapons that are generally prohibited for citizens. Where am I wrong?
Why do opponents of short-bar legalization confuse this with storage liberalization ?!
In my opinion, first of all, to adopt normal laws on the defense and protection of loved ones, then only legalize the Constitutional Court, while the owner must pass exams at least every 5 years and every 2 years - shooting and medical help.
And injuries - generally forbid!

I'm afraid laws will help, in part (
Here, I think, it is necessary to consider the psychological state of the whole society. And it, in my opinion, is not very healthy, to put it mildly ..
As an example: what is happening on the roads
So, muzzles crumble each other, ready to kill, each other
People are angry and unsure of themselves .. Look at the faces in the subway, just passers-by, they are tense, for the most part.
Personally, I’m not sure that the freedom of ownership of weapons will improve the situation. Rather, the opposite ..

[Maverick78]

I completely agree ... in the West, other people ... we can easily get drunk and arrange shootings, or use them out of business in a conflict situation.

[Simargl]

Quote: Maverick78

other people in the west

Come on! What is different about them? Intelligence higher? Drink less?
Or are you trying to discredit us?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Maverick78

other people in the west ...

Yeah, more greedy, evil and hypocritical.

Quote: Maverick78

we can easily get drunk and arrange shootings

They have the same. Even worse.

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

Personally, I’m not sure that the freedom of ownership of weapons will improve the situation.

Why repeat from post to post RAVE?!
NO ONE Don't call for selling cops in bakeries!
LEGALIZATION does not mean liberalization!
For example, we have LEGALIZED weapons that can tear a person in half, and with which you can arrange a massacre (Roslyakov still could not buy Saigu-12, otherwise he could have shot a cart of cartridges), but I have not heard of any liberalization of possession of such weapons!
If you think that criminal elements and those who hold power will gain access to the Constitutional Court, you are naive: they own illegal and semi-illegal trunks all, who wants!

[The Siberian barber]

In no way, I do not pretend to be the weight of my opinion, because I am not an expert in the matter, but I think that apart from hunters,
the population should not have weapons. Neither COP nor traumatic. And the age of obtaining hunting weapons must be raised, up to 25 years. Weapons, only, for "people in uniform" ...
Best regards

[Surg]

Well, when a GTA gang crumbled people in packs on the roads, nothing happened for people. And the police, let's not deceive everyone and ourselves, they act on the same principle when they kill and come. And when whole families get into and kill houses, you won’t wait for the police and you won’t even have time to call. It does not kill weapons, it kills a man.! You can kill anything from a pencil to a brick.

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

but I think

You think strange things.
Hunters only have weapons ... but I can also be a hunter - strictly in the season and once every couple of years, for example.

Quote: The Siberian Barber

Weapons, only, for "people in uniform" ...

Yeah! And the semi-legal possession of the Constitutional Court through admission to VOHR some. Passed by.

Quote: The Siberian Barber

weapons, the population should not be.

Well, the law-abiding ones do not even own it, but the criminals have no problems with this. And certainly they do not use nonsense in the form of traumatic.

Quote: The Siberian Barber

And the age of obtaining hunting weapons should be increased, up to 25 years.

And why is this ?!

[The Siberian barber]

I think that by about this age a person becomes mature in the sense of psychology, understanding of responsibility.

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

by this age a person becomes mature in the sense of psychology, understanding of responsibility.

You think badly.
If a person is not prepared for responsibility, he will be a child with big hands by the age of 50.
A weapons permit must be after training (studying the legal side, handling, shooting, etc.), passing exams, receiving honey. certificates and licenses. This process should be structured so as to foster responsibility in the possession of weapons. The same as when receiving the WU.
Those who do not need it will drop out (everything that I listed is not cheap). And those who can afford it now will continue to afford it.

[The Siberian barber]

I absolutely agree, with you, regarding preliminary training, not only in possession skills, but also in the legal aspect!)
But in terms of age, not convinced.
You brought, as an argument, getting a VU .. I don’t know how you are, but I, in the stream of cars, can often determine the age of the driver)))
At 18, a young man does not always realize who he is and what he needs)) more precisely, he needs everything!))
I am sure that if you conduct a survey among 18 and 23-25 ​​year olds, on the subject: "do you need a weapon", then there will be more positive answers, among 18 year olds)) of them reasonably answer the question "why" few can ...
Often, for them, this is one of the attributes of a tough guy, like having a fashionable device or having a "cool car")

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

I do not know about you, but I, in the flow of cars, can often determine the age of the driver

Nonsense! The Novosibirsk driver will be "his" in Moscow, he will be noticeable in Surgut, and in some Engels it will be a wild reckless driver.
Боthe difference will be from the city where he wouldоmost of the driving, driving school and teachers.
A year somewhere a person completes his studies, does not lead confidently, and then only starts to "fool".

Quote: The Siberian Barber

18 year olds)) of them reasonably answer the question "why" few can

Those. in the case of hunting - "for hunting" is not strongly justified?

[The Siberian barber]

Many Muscovites or Kaliningraders dream of hunting at the age of 18!)))

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

Many Muscovites or Kaliningraders dream of hunting at the age of 18!)))

Well done! In the suburbs there is where. In Kaliningrad, I don’t know.
Not only в 18, a с 18.

[The Siberian barber]

There is where)) by the way, the Moscow men come to us)

[The Siberian barber]

A year somewhere a person completes his studies, does not lead confidently, and then only begins to "fool"

You yourself answered)))

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

You yourself answered)))

What did I answer? Almost independent of age. The greatest heat, just 25-30 years, if about cars.

[The Siberian barber]

Kids are dumbing ..
Very, very tragic nonsense.
A kind of "machismo", one of the trends among young people.
Understand, I personally am not against weapons as such. By the way, when that, I shot well)) ..
But in our society ... at this stage .. Big doubts

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

But in our society ... at this stage .. Big doubts

But has it changed so much?
We still took TOZ-8 back in 93 along the city street without covers (from school to school), and nothing!
What has changed?

[The Siberian barber]

People consciousness

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

People consciousness

Yes, nothing has changed! They only intimidated everyone.

[The Siberian barber]

Duc, this is very bad!)
TOZ 8! The school shooting range .. 10 years was ..))) The military commander, a retiree, a tough guy was))) a little later, TOZ 12 gave))
.. something was remembered

[Simargl]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

something remembered

And after all, they did not shoot each other, although they behaved recklessly.

Quote: The Siberian Barber

Duc, this is very bad!

The fact of the matter is that in our country the people only see a whip from the authorities. Gingerbread cookies are needed.

[your1970]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: The Siberian Barber
something remembered
And after all, they did not shoot each other, although they behaved recklessly.

-You didn’t have anger / envy- for the neighbors were all equal and differed only in the number-2101 or 412 maximum .... and now there will be more inequality ...

[Simargl]

Quote: your1970

the neighbors were all equal and differed only in the figure-2101 or 412 maximum ...

My neighbors have a new A8 opposite. Normal guys.
The neighbors below have i30. Rare condoms.
The house itself is new. Part of the housing is social (immigrants from the so-called balconiesоc), so these "social" ones were almost imprinted on their foreheads at first.
What's wrong? Middle-income people - they are more adequate.

[your1970]

neighbors from the balconyоin consider owners of A8 and i30 rogues and thieves are paramount. And even if they do not think so, their children, seeing other children with iPhones, are strongly offended by social inequality ...

Quote: Simargl

Middle-income people - they are more adequate.

and in Soviet times there was nothing to envy - and then people contrived on jeans / Montana's watches

[Simargl]

Quote: your1970

neighbors from the balconyоin consider owners of A8 and i30 crooks and thieves

Many of them considered it possible to buy the A8 (more precisely, some of the mud mixes), but with housing must was to help state. With money, but lived almost in a stable.
I don’t have an A8, I don’t even have a Korean, but mu .... m I tend to consider the one on the i30.

Quote: your1970

and in Soviet times there was nothing to envy - and then people contrived on jeans / Montana's watches

You manage to contradict yourself in one sentence.
You can always find something to envy!

[your1970]

Jealousy of jeans - it is a little easier to satisfy than jealousy of i30

[Simargl]

Quote: your1970

Jealousy of jeans - it is a little easier to satisfy than jealousy of i30

Oh, scream !!!
When jeans were in short supply, the owners of VAZs envied the owners of the Volga, the owners of Minsk - the owners of the Urals, and the pedestrians - all those on wheels.
Moreover, the cost of a car is comparable both then and now.
Nothing changes.

[your1970]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: your1970

Jealousy of jeans - it is a little easier to satisfy than jealousy of i30

Oh, scream !!!
When jeans were in short supply, the owners of VAZs envied the owners of the Volga, the owners of Minsk - the owners of the Urals, and the pedestrians - all those on wheels.
Moreover, the cost of a car is comparable both then and now.
Nothing changes.

-test working on a combine harvester earned for 3 of the year on 2101 (three children + a lover to drink and have a bite). Today, with a salary in 150 000 per year, on which new can a combine harvester save up for 3 of the year? What can I buy for an 450 pipe?

[Simargl]

Quote: your1970

What can I buy for 450trub?

Granta Sedan 1.6 L 8-C (87 h.p.), 5MT / Classic / 21901-A1-000 - 435 500 RUB.
Enough for the signaling. And refuel.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

Today, with a salary of 150 per year, what new machine can a combine harvester save for 000 years?

What kind of combiner is this? In our region, even snotty boys from April to September raise from 50 to 80 thousand a month in the field, a good professional has up to 120 thousand, for the season from 300 thousand to half a million it turns out, although the work is certainly hellish, after the season those older ones go to bed in hospitals with pressure, who are younger with the spine.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

In our region, even snotty boys

your region is apparently very cereal. We have a year of harvest - 3-5 years of drought, again a year of harvest ...
we have from May to August on 60-70, and then (out of season !!) 10-15, or even take it only for the harvest. About 150-170-200 goes onto the circle ... I don’t like it - go ahead !!!
but by the way, it should be noted lately the people have lost the habit of such labor and farmers have already begun to grow up and pay more - 3 of the last year for s / n still gives 10-15-20 tons of grain.

Simargl (Andrey) Yesterday, 16: 55
"Granta sedan 1.6 l 8-cl. (87 hp), 5MT / Classic / 21901-A1-000 - 435 RUB.
Enough for the signaling. And refuel. "- was wrong there is even a cheaper option
"1.6 l 8-cl. (87 hp), 5MT / Standard / 21901-A0-001 / COLOR White" White cloud "(240)" - 399 900 rubles.
Trouble is that it didn’t bother the father-in-law and did not leave without drink / food, but now if you do not eat 3 of the year, then yes - save up and even besides the signaling and refuel even on the mats / music / wash it remains ..... EPT 50 000 remainder, I don’t want to go for a walk ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

We have a year of harvest - 3-5 years of drought, again a year of harvest ...

Here, yes, we have strong agriculture, although droughts for our region are also very common.

Quote: your1970

Trouble is that the father-in-law didn’t bother and didn’t leave without drink / food, but now if you do not eat 3 years

But what about your own farm? While the cholovik for the salary is working, the Zhinka of the body and the piglet are to be used, and the hens with ducks, and the garden ...

[your1970]

the conversation was about envy in the days of the USSR and now. Then there were 4 types of cars - constipation, 412, 2101, Volga. And people understood that the first three can be owned by almost anyone (even after a queue of 5 years) - but to the owner of the fourth surely they will come and give some advice ("don't steal !! © BA) and envy in this case is quite calm.
And now youth is jealous of behi / audi / porsche / etc. knowing full well that it’s very difficult to make money on it and the chance that the owner is stealing is very high. But what’s coming for him is the chance is rather small (unlike the USSR). And this envy is already burning, and where it will turn out is unknown
Well, during the times of the USSR, there were no fights on the roads due to the fact that someone cut someone / didn’t miss, although traffic jams appeared in Moscow at the end of the 80’s

Z. s. a few years ago I watched an epic - in a city like a Nexia, he cuts eight old ones. He hits them lightly in the bumper - he doesn't even prick, scratches ... Two shkets of 20-25 years are crawled out of the Nexia and they start to slide in - "Grandfather you paaapal loot !!! sell the hut !!! ". From 08 a bull comes out from behind from the 90s, with a neck and a chain of 200 grams. Silently hits one - the other, picks up both by the scruffs and begins to beat them with their muzzles on the trunk of their car. the trunk in the back, he silently translates them forward and begins to bend the hood with their muzzles. Grandfather shouts that like “Vasya, well, don't be so hard, the boys were joking !!” And he silently continues to bend the hood ino ..
unfortunately I did not watch until the finals (they took me away), but the foreign hood and trunk were only for replacement, and the guys didn’t have any porridge at all ..
I called the police and said, but they did not call me and did not interrogate.

That's what would happen in this situation - if there was a COP (LEGAL!!!) at the parties?
I should have detained everyone at least - although my sympathies were on the side of my grandfather, the guys were clearly not the first time looking for a sucker and no desire to interfere with "Vasya". And to shoot him as a maximum - he could really beat them to death.
If they had the barrel, they could kill both "Vasya" and his grandfather - pure self-defense, he really could have hammered them.
If my grandfather had a barrel (without "Vasya"), he could shoot them, but it's not at all a fact that they are swindlers, maybe they are like that in life. Also pure self-defense.
If "Vasya" had a barrel, then I think that he would also have ridiculed them without a barrel.
If everyone had trunks - there could be up to 4 corpses (including me) and also - pure self-defense from all sides
because of a piece of iron worth 5 000 rubles ....

Is such a picture possible somewhere in Europe? Nonsense ....

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

the conversation was about envy in Soviet times and now

Always envied. And they will always envy. But I do not see how this is connected with the legalization of the Constitutional Court. In the United States, social inequality and property stratification are no less than in Russia.

Quote: your1970

several years ago watched epic

Quote: your1970

That's what would happen in this situation - if there was a COP (LEGAL !!!) from the parties?

Knowing that you can get 9 grams of lead sedative:
and. No one would cut anyone.
b. Had an accident happened, the parties would have quietly and peacefully called the emergency commissioner, or even would have drawn the "Europrotocol". And the ships would disperse like in the sea.

Quote: your1970

Is such a picture possible somewhere in Europe?

Easy! If you think that in modern Europe there are no accidents, you are mistaken.
Yes, and about the showdown on the roads, in 99% of cases, if there are no casualties in the accident, drivers and passengers now behave even somewhat phlegmatically, if not apathetic, get out, look and go into their pocket for ... no, not a gun, and by phone, call the emergency commissioner.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Yes, and about the showdown on the roads, in 99% of cases, if there are no casualties in the accident, drivers and passengers now behave even somewhat phlegmatically, if not apathetic, get out, look and go into their pocket for ... no, not a gun, and by phone, call the emergency commissioner.

- Well, let's put on the territory of the Russian Federation emergency commissioners are found only in cities with a population of over one million, no less. For example, the closest one is 300 km away, and I'm not very sure if they are there too .... the services "sober driver" have not been there for three years already - in general ...
our people first call familiar traffic cops, and only then they begin to decide the question - who is to blame and who will give the grandmothers. Moreover, if they used to do something like OSAGO, now when there was a repair instead of money, the people started to solve the issue in cash again, because the repair stations insurance in 300 km .....
but about

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Knowing that you can get 9 grams of lead sedative:

- just look at the US statistics. There, the cops regularly cut people out - who send something that is obviously harmless to them.
Everyone knows that you can’t direct your hand towards the police or comb (as in Fergusson)- the cops will kill, but nevertheless the eccentrics are not transferred and they are killed every year.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

Well, let’s put on the territory of the Russian Federation emergency commissioners are found only in cities with million population, no less.

In cities with a quarter-million population, they are also found. Yes, and in smaller settlements are also present.

Quote: your1970

For example, we have the nearest 300 km

Then you probably should not be afraid of accidents, because in such a breakdown an accident can happen only if someone intentionally goes to ram.

Quote: your1970

our people first call familiar traffic cops

And they send this people on foot erotic journey because there are many people, but there are few of them, and you don’t have anything for yourself.

Quote: your1970

services "sober driver) there is not already three years

Why is it needed, if I have at least the minimum skill in planning my actions and round-the-clock taxi service, I don’t understand.

Quote: your1970

Now when there was a repair instead of money, the people again began to solve the issue in cash

Why are you talking as if this is something bad? If there are no victims and both sides agree to resolve the issue locally, then this is their right. Although, for good, the participants still need to at least fill out a traffic accident notice. But you can do without formalities in principle, for example, you tore off a bumper in a parking lot for someone, spent 10 minutes waiting and talking with the owner of the vehicle, gave it right there 5-10 thousand, received a receipt and left. And everyone is happy, and the injured car will be repaired and you will not draw up a coefficient for insurance.

Quote: your1970

just look at the US statistics. There, the cops regularly cut people out - who send something that is obviously harmless to them.
Everyone knows that impossible towards the police to direct a hand or a comb (as in Fergusson) - the cops will kill, but nevertheless, cranks do not translate and are killed every year.

You yourself answered your own question. This is elementary - follow the rules of hostel and communication, be polite and responsible, and then law enforcement and law-abiding armed citizens will not only not pose a threat to you, but will become your faithful friends and defenders.
By the way, now in almost all more or less large settlements of the United States, policemen wear "bodicams" - miniature cameras that allow you to track their actions, and it is clear from the many videos from these cameras that even armed "aspects" of the "cops" open fire only after repeated warnings and requests to drop weapons.

[your1970]

a feeling that we are from different countries ..... or you live in a large city .....
I write that there are no people who want to arm themselves in frantic numbers and therefore there are no shooting galleries and is not expected - we have only 126 hunters in the area, and there are even fewer people who can spend 50000 on CSs. Who will fire a dash on 10?
I write about accidents and traffic cops, you write about the remoteness and impossibility of accidents .... yeah, last year 4 of the corpse of drivers of cars killed in a collision, a dozen or two shot down (and this is what I heard, maybe more), and how many are broken I don’t even know about drunk cars, I know that a lot ...
Daily magistrates' court robs 6 to 9 people for drinking while driving
I write that the repair is 300 km away and about "chase the grandmas" - and you tell me about consent when bumping bumpers in the parking lot, at the same time mentioning an easy payback of 5-10 ... yes, for half of the population, this is a monthly salary
but thank God permission / prohibition of the COP does not depend on me or on you ....

[stalki]

Simargl

It has been scientifically confirmed and proved that the formation of a person’s character and personality completely takes place at 25 years of age, before that there is a chain of syncitive periods accompanied by age-related crises. Which implies an inertia of consciousness, maximalism, the absence of a complete system of internal control, which in turn is based on a system of values ​​acquired in the process of character formation. So it’s more advisable to own a weapon from the age of 25.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: stalki

So it’s more advisable to prepare for possession of weapons with 25 years and a point

But other? In the sense of the army, the right to a car, marriage, alcohol ...

[stalki]

But other? In the sense of the army, the right to a car, marriage, alcohol ...

With rights too early, alcohol is complete nonsense, the later the better, and the marriage is the same, half of the marriages break up precisely because of the age of immaturity. About the army wrote below. People do not know and do not understand much. It is necessary to self-develop for a more objective perception of reality.

[Simargl]

Quote: stalki

before that there is a chain of synzitative periods accompanied by age-related crises

Ageаmajor crises ... there are several of them after 25 years.

Quote: stalki

Which implies an inertia of consciousness, maximalism, the absence of a complete system of internal control, which in turn is based on a system of values ​​acquired in the process of character formation.

Brr ...
What is the difference between an adult and a child?
At work, different people go through.
Work with electricity.
Some of them, even at 50, cannot be allowed to work independently - only under supervision, and some at 18 are quite adequate!
I know a few people who have acquired weapons up to 20.
What is wrong with your statements?

[stalki]

Read carefully that I wrote a character formed after 25 other crises do not affect its formation. The percentage of reasonable people after this threshold is much higher than before. And these are not my statements, but scientifically proven facts.

[Simargl]

Quote: stalki

The percentage of reasonable people after this threshold is much higher than before

Well, with age, their %% grows due to natural decline!
If a person was a diving boy at 16, he will remain so at 30! Tricks will be added - it will be more difficult to identify.
Upon receipt of a permit for weapons require a description ... why would it?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Siberian barber

I think that by about this age a person becomes mature in the sense of psychology, understanding of responsibility.

In the military enlistment office they consider you mature from the age of 18, what is the problem?

[LSA57]

Quote: Lara Croft

In the military enlistment office they consider you mature from the age of 18, what is the problem?

and trust not a hunting shotgun, but a much more serious weapon

[Lara Croft]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Lara Croft

In the military enlistment office they consider you mature from the age of 18, what is the problem?

and trust not a hunting shotgun, but a much more serious weapon

Here I am talking about too, the SVD could be entrusted to me at 18, but there is no smooth-bore gun, i.e. I can protect the people, the party and the government, but I’m not myself at this age ...?

[LSA57]

Quote: Lara Croft

those. I can protect the people, the party and the government, but I’m not myself at this age ...?

Well, it brings some sometimes. in the army you can go with a gun. wait for at least another 5 years on a civilian, that would be legal to go hunting

[Lara Croft]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Lara Croft

those. I can protect the people, the party and the government, but I’m not myself at this age ...?

in civilian life wait for And how at least 5 years old, which would be legal to go hunting

What do you mean? in the first five years I can go hunting with a smoothbore ....

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

wait for at least another 5 years on a civilian, that would be legal to go hunting

Firstly, immediately after entering the hunt. society and the purchase of licenses and weapons.
Secondly, ammunition and weapons from the TCM appeared, which turned the requirements for rifled (5 years) into fiction.
In addition, if you choose hunting as a profession, you can take rifled at 18!

[stalki]

In the military enlistment office they consider you mature from the age of 18, what is the problem?

and trust not a hunting shotgun, but a much more serious weapon

under the full control of the state without the right to personal ownership.

[The Siberian barber]

But the machine, they do not give it to you right away)
They left mature after 2/3 years (now, I don’t know)

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Siberian barber

But the machine, they do not give it to you right away)
They left mature after 2/3 years (now, I don’t know)

Immediately after taking the Oath and KMB ...

[The Siberian barber]

So, at first, the brains "adjusted" a little)))

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Siberian barber

So, at first, the brains "adjusted" a little)))

Three weeks...
About the same time I studied and collected certificates for a hunting rifle ...

[your1970]

Quote: Siberian barber

I think that by about this age a person becomes mature in the sense of psychology, understanding of responsibility.

-then excuse me, but you’ll have to take to the army in 25 .... You can ride and shoot at the tank in the 18-trap .... it’s mature here, and it’s not hunting ....

[stalki]

The army is under state supervision, do not confuse state responsibility and civil liability.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: The Siberian Barber

the age of obtaining hunting weapons should be increased, years to 25.

Yeah, and the indigenous peoples of the north will die by themselves, yes ...
By the way, when a kid leads a 23-year-old platoon into battle, is he already a responsible person or not yet?

[stalki]

One responsible therefore and in charge, and the rest under supervision. And to the peoples of the north, preference is already acceptable.

[Rzzz]

Well that's exactly what is illegal. Those. if a person has a trunk, then it’s clear that it’s illegal, and you must act accordingly, you can immediately shoot to kill. In the case of legalization, there is doubt, and suddenly the dude is good.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Simargl

in this case, the owner must pass exams at least every 5 years and every 2 years - shooting and medical information.

you write complete nonsense to those who snickered - they wanted to spit on exams and certificates - everything is for sale in our country! the main thing is to call the right amount!

Quote: Simargl

And injuries - generally forbid!

this is generally from the field of inadequacy !! why suddenly forbid? - then drive cars should be banned by amateur rights (category B) because they crush people in batches a day - according to statistics - to ban the destiny of those who are not smart !!! there are things much more effective!

[LSA57]

Quote: Tiksi-3

why suddenly forbid? - then driving cars should be prohibited by amateur rights (category B), because they crush people in batches a day - according to statistics - to ban the destiny of those who are not smart !!!

totally agree
the most deadly weapon in Russia according to statistics is kitchen knife. more people die from him than from AK.
to ban them too?

[stalki]

why suddenly forbid? - then driving cars should be prohibited by amateur rights (category B), because they crush people in batches a day - according to statistics - to ban the destiny of those who are not smart !!!

totally agree
According to statistics, the most deadly weapon in Russia is a kitchen knife. more people die from him than from AK.
to ban them too?

the knife is because there is no gun, but it would be unnecessary for a knife. You are already using hackneyed arguments, they do not have much weight. In addition, the flare of a weapon is absolutely different from the flare of a car in the mind of a person, therefore, "aggression and weapons" and "aggression and cars" are fundamentally different concepts.

[Simargl]

Quote: Tiksi-3

this is generally from the field of inadequacy !! why suddenly forbid?

I will explain it all in a row.
Traumatic weapons are prohibited in many countries where COP is permitted.
The point is that owners start treating non-lethal weapons as if they were a toy with which, for some reason, red tape during registration.
One of the big problems of trauma.

Quote: Tiksi-3

then you must forbid driving cars by amateur rights (category B) because they crush people in batches a day - this is statistics - to forbid the destiny of not smart !!!

You must not confuse the square with the warm!

Quote: Tiksi-3

there are things much more effective!

Yes, right! Resolving a traumatic weapon is not a smart move. It would be better if COP were allowed up to 150 J. This is 5,6 LR and 6,35 × 15 Browning, for example.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Simargl

The point is that owners start treating non-lethal weapons like a toy

Are you so to yourself? who told you that as a toy .....

[Simargl]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Are you so to yourself?

I have no injury.

[stalki]

Actually, Simargl is right about the toy

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Tiksi-3

this is generally from the field of inadequacy !! why suddenly forbid?

Because:
1. Identification of the trunk by a pool released from a traumatic weapon:
and. For barrelless - completely impossible;
b. For the receiver - almost impossible.
2. If you follow the rules for using traumatic weapons, then it is practically impossible to defend with their help, and especially in winter when everyone wears several layers of thick and durable clothing (I already gave an example from personal experience when a person dressed in a sheepskin coat and very warmed up with alcohol easily transferred 5 hit from a traumatic revolver into the hull and hips and was reassured only after using this very revolver as a strike weapon);
3. If you do not follow the rules and shoot in the head, then this is automatically considered as exceeding the limits of the necessary defense and the victim becomes a criminal;
4. Often, due to the designation of trauma as a "non-lethal" weapon, its owners do not take it very seriously, perceiving it as a kind of "extension cord and amplifier" of the hand, which is why they begin to use it in situations where a normal barrel would not even think to get it;
5. Well, and most importantly, if you do not follow the rules for the use of traumatic weapons, then killing a person from a trauma is as simple as that.

[Simargl]

1 - defenders of traumatic weapons either do not know or do not understand (including how to use it for criminal purposes).
2 - i.e. It is useless for half a year.
3 - i.e. opponents of the Constitutional Court have resigned themselves to the legalization of weapons of "self-defense", which may become the reason for the transfer of the defender to the status of the accused. Fun.
4 - i.e. authorities framed citizens.
5 - i.e. in self-defense with the help of traumatic weapons, a person should be completely superman without nerves, because there is no efficiency, and you can stop only by violating the rules of use.
Double standards?

[Irokez]

Quote: Simargl

And injuries - generally forbid!

Or maybe firearms to ban, and traumatic control strictly? It’s safer for everyone, and first of all for the owners of weapons which they can because of weapons and mouth. Those who consider themselves safe having weapons are actually in greater danger.

[Simargl]

Quote: Irokez

Or maybe firearms to ban, and traumatic control strictly?

Those. as it is. Statistics on stupid deaths from injuries, unfortunately, do not stick out.

Quote: Irokez

It’s safer for everyone, and first of all for the owners of weapons which they can because of weapons and mouth.

There are more than one million hunters, if that. The vast majority of illegal trunks - not from hunters, not from individual owners. To take away the trunk from the individual - they will immediately begin to look for it, but to take it away from the warehouses - firstly, it is almost clean, and secondly, they will not catch it right away. So what nonsense is this!

Quote: Irokez

Those who consider themselves safe having weapons are actually in greater danger.

If the right to own weapons requires training (legal, infantry, normal laws to be adopted) - why?

[Irokez]

Quote: Simargl

Statistics on stupid deaths from injuries, unfortunately, do not stick out.

And what is the statistics on stupid gunshot deaths? Any weapon fires, but a firearm destroys more effectively than traumatism, which means it’s more dangerous and you can’t argue with that.
If you want to hunt, take hunting in the woods, but in a city with a large population there should be no special control.
And if a bandit breaks into your hands and screams to kill and rob, then this is a terrible dream for you after the horror watched before going to bed.

[Simargl]

Quote: Irokez

but a firearm is also more effective than a traumatic gun

And here it is not a matter of effectiveness, but of assessing the danger of weapons.

Quote: Irokez

And if a bandit with a gun breaks up to you and screams, I’ll kill and rob

This is you in Kushchevskaya tell.

Quote: Irokez

If you want to hunt, take hunting and into the forest, but in the city ...

So I will be a weapon must keep in town.

[Irokez]

Quote: Simargl

And here it is not a matter of effectiveness, but of assessing the danger of weapons.

Well, what kind of weapon is more dangerous. You’re right on your own tail.

So I will be obliged to keep weapons in the city.

Correctly, if not in the village, then in the city the hunter holds the weapon as it should according to the law, but why the weapon is NOT for the HUNTER who does not hunt in the forest, but in the city is working.

[Simargl]

Quote: Irokez

Quote: Simargl

And here it is not a matter of effectiveness, but of assessing the danger of weapons.

Well, what kind of weapon is more dangerous. You’re right on your own tail.

More dangerous is the weapon that is being treated disproportionately with danger. Those. and pneumatics can kill an idiot in the arms, and Deagle is safe in the arms of adequate.

Quote: Irokez

but why the weapon is NOT a HUNTER who does not hunt in the forest, but in the city is wielding.

What is it now for? In case of zombie apocalypse. There are people who like to beat plates, for example.

[Former Russian]

You think so, but the owners of weapons with YOU do not agree! If you are such a pacifist, then this means that everyone should be them! I personally do not strain my weapons and yes I am ready to fill up those who climb into my house! And people like you even scratch your head against the wall, but most all the same for the COP and rifled, smooth-bore!

[Irokez]

Quote: Former Russian

most all the same for the COP and rifled, smooth-bore!

Why do you think so?
You want it so much, but not always Wishlist are a reality.

[Former Russian]

Quote: Irokez

You want it so much

At least with those with whom I talked and communicate, 95% have weapons! And yes they will not refuse him, even under the threat of prison! That's just your Wishlist banning a firearm and stay Wishlist!

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Irokez

Those who consider themselves safe having weapons are actually in greater danger.

where do these statements come from I have Makar, Izh 12klb and a rifled carbine and in what danger am I? and why did you decide that I think I'm safe?

[Former Russian]

Dear, do not explain anything to them!))) They endured their path and they are ready to be them, watch how they rob and force them, what can you do psychology, endured - he endured in Africa))) !!! And many here still write that it is necessary to kick either amer or small-shaved))), naive, if you yourself do not have eggs to have a trunk and use it if necessary, then what kind of eggs you need to have to start a war with another state !!!

[LSA57]

Quote: Former Russian

naive, if you yourself do not have eggs to have a trunk and use it if necessary,

and without a trunk you yourself are "complete zero" even against someone who has no trunk
Do you think the trunk provides security? wrong, this is an illusion. you're a potential victim for someone who needs a trunk

then what kind of eggs do you need to have to start a war with another state !!!

It turns out the war begins ordinary citizens who have a trunk?
so how do they do it?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: LSA57

and without a trunk you yourself are "complete zero" even against someone who has no trunk

and whoever constantly walks with the barrel, it’s psychologically harmful, you don’t take the barrel today and you consider yourself incapable ... so you have to go in your pocket with a tactical pen one day (the police will not pick up and you can even go to court), the other day is trihedral file without a handle ....

Do you think the trunk provides security? wrong, this is an illusion. you're a potential victim for someone who needs a trunk

everyone knows that the Caucasus carries knives with it, that I have not heard that they feel like a potential victim, come ask them about it, I think they will laugh in your face with a terrible laugh ...

[LSA57]

Quote: Lara Croft

everyone knows that the Caucasus carries knives with it,

this is a detail of national clothes, but not for defense. in addition, we are talking about a firearm that can be taken away. well still leave alive
I was brought up in a company where they beat their own in a pocket with a knife. in any fight, a knife is a deadline for everyone. without a knife, they fought and fled.
and yet, when 2-3 people go at you, no knife will help. at hand there is always a stake, or there is a brick.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Lara Croft

everyone knows that the Caucasus carries knives with it,

this is a detail of national clothes,

it is rarely a folding or folding knife, most often Kizlyar hunting and has no relation to national clothes, especially if an uncle in a thick sheepskin coat ...

about a firearm that can be taken away. well still leave alive

where do they see me with a firearm or trauma under a padded jacket, do not smash the rubbish ...

and yet, when 2-3 people go at you, no knife will help. at hand there is always a stake, or there is a brick.

this is, if a person does not have knife fighting skills, and you can cut a jar vein on your neck with a sharpened plastic card, or you can throw a half of the Sputnik razor blade into your eye, I certainly don’t know how to do all this, but people in underground passages are different they may meet they don't care how many of you ...

[LSA57]

Quote: Lara Croft

where do they see me with a firearm or trauma under a padded jacket, do not smash the rubbish ...

Yes, I do not flog. the hunt will begin on the one with whom they will know exactly what the firearm is. besides, in summer you won’t hide it under a padded jacket. Yes, and find out that someone has it, just spit

I certainly don’t know how to do all this, but people in the underpasses who are different can meet them anyway how many of you ...

I will describe a typical situation. there is someone carrying a vykiduhu for self-defense. towards a couple of three individuals with unkind intentions. this someone takes out a vykiduha. on the ground, these scumbags find cola, or bricks. in my opinion this is not a problem. question, help him get out?
I'm talking about an ordinary person who does not own anything special

[Lara Croft]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Lara Croft

where do they see me with a firearm or trauma under a padded jacket, do not smash the rubbish ...

you can’t hide it under a padded jacket in the summer.

there are special bags for carrying pistols, holsters for hidden carrying, etc. and who will constantly go with a firearm, especially in empiricist countries with a short gun in public places you can’t be ...

in my opinion this is not a problem. question, help him get out?

if he realizes that he will not have time to escape, then the knife will be taken out already at the very contact with the enemy, otherwise they will not kill you, but only rob, if with weapons, then give the knife back to them ...

[Former Russian]

Quote: LSA57

this is a detail of national clothes, but not for defense

Well ridiculed so ridiculed!))) A detail of nat.clothing, half of the black ones wear trunks, is this the same detail?)))) And yes it’s right - this is not for defense, just for attack !!!

[Former Russian]

Quote: LSA57

without a barrel, you yourself are "complete zero" even against someone who has no barrel

Well, unlike you, I have no illusions that I can stand one against three on my fists !!!
I’ll describe the situation to you: You go one to a meeting three, it starts like ““ Uncle give me a smoke! ”And you are all like Rambo, you start to rivet one after another!))) I'm not sure that many will be able to resist against two or three at the same time! situation (only that actually happened): Mach 2 begins, pot 6, those who have 6 knives and bats (zero chances for 2), get the trunk and the first who is closer to the belly, the second to the legs and uphill, four escaped, two in the hospital, guy that with a barrel for 2 years in the correctional facility and home on parole! Safe and sound, well, for two years I had to transfer the case to my younger brother! So I wrote to you, if you are ready for resuscitation, disability, then you don't need guns and knives, go so, but I personally do not want to be disabled or dead due to the fact that some three downitos decided to get hold of money in a dark corner! You can be malicious, but I do not care, I walked with a trunk and will walk! And you can wait when just you without a trunk and will be squeezed in a dark corner !!!

[stalki]

They’ll squeeze you faster, because those six can have 6 trunks, and you? The argument is null.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

They’ll squeeze you faster, because those six can have 6 trunks, and you?

Those six may have 12 trunks. Illegal. Because the criminal is not a priori limited by the law.

Quote: stalki

The argument is null.

Yours - yes, zero.

[stalki]

I wrote about children, these six can be teenagers, and parents own weapons. And adult criminals will be much easier to get their weapons, interrupt numbers. Yes, a bunch of options. More trunks in the country more crimes. Your zero.

[Rakti-kali]

AND? Do all six parents want to lose their licenses and go to jail? The owner of the weapon, you know, bears responsibility for it, regardless of who it is in his hands. In this case, only an immediate statement about the theft of weapons can be saved from criminal liability, but the license of one FIG will be canceled.

Quote: stalki

And adult criminals will be much easier to get their weapons, interrupt numbers.

So why should they bother with such difficulties if you can buy a brand new pistol / machine gun / machine gun, on which even flies were not sitting, honestly humiliated from the army / police depots? I don’t remember the exact numbers now, but the emnip for 2014 in illegal circulation was almost 150.000 of the barrels of army heavy weapons only.

Quote: stalki

More trunks in the country more crimes.

I repeat once again - the criminal will find a trunk for himself and will not bother with the delegation of a legal trunk.

Quote: stalki

Your zero.

Well, well ... no matter how much you say "halva", your mouth will not become sweeter.

[stalki]

That's what what, and no one will ask parents, I personally had a case in my teens when my peer put a barrel to my temple, daddy charged from an armory, for fun. The fuse is true. But friendship apart, and such inadequate sea.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

That's what what, and no one will ask parents, I personally had a case in my teens when my peer put a barrel to my temple, daddy charged from an armory, for fun.

AND? Did you write a statement to the police? Did your proctologist take the trunk for a long time? Or didn’t you do anything? Then what claims to storage rules if you didn’t give a damn about them?

[stalki]

What are the rules at age 12, I still didn’t know what to do then, I went through the order of garlic.

[Former Russian]

Quote: stalki

I wrote about children, these six can be teenagers

And what if they are teenagers? I personally do not care whether a teenager is a bat or an adult, the consequences are the same, so he’ll knock his legs, and then he’ll see, and the parents will come and break the dad’s by the first number, that the son has grown inadequate and came to pull him for him!

[Former Russian]

Dear they don’t understand this!)))) Let them accept any law, but the bandos will have a weapon and they don’t give a damn about the laws, but it seems to these law-abiding pacifists that everyone will run to build trunks as soon as the thought passes the law!)) ) Naive Chukchi youths or not youths already, you all will not understand how you have a chance with a trunk, but without it there is no word at all !!!

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

They’ll squeeze you faster, because those six can have 6 trunks, and you?
Those six may have 12 trunks. Illegal. Because the criminal is not a priori limited by the law.

and if they were not involved and they have - 6 LEGAL? You will have self-defense (of the deceased!) Or did you attack them?

[Rakti-kali]

Once again you begin to come up with ridiculous situations.
Firstly, no one in their right mind will use legal weapons to commit a crime, because this is the same as leaving your passport at the crime scene.
Secondly, these "six", and now are not limited by the framework of the law and may well have illegal weapons.
Thirdly, what follows from the second, you don’t care from which barrel you are shot from, from legal or illegal, you already will die from this and that.
Fourth, what follows from the second and third, since the threat from illegal weapons already exists and is no less, or even greater, if we take into account "firstly", then the legalization of the Constitutional Court will allow you to increase your security , because not only will the villain have a chance to shoot you, but you will also have a chance to shoot the villain.
And fifthly, six, and all with trunks, and even those who killed some one, from the point of view of the investigation, are not a priori self-defense, but an armed gang, which these six will begin to develop, because the suppression of banditry is a +1 star on shoulder straps and +1 order on the chest almost automatically.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Once again you begin to come up with ridiculous situations.

-you didn’t answer my question, but went into the jungle about the "ridiculous, etc."
1)

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Firstly, no one in their right mind will use legal weapons to commit a crime, because this is the same as leaving your passport at the crime scene.

- offhand - killership (just make a reservation - not oligarchs / thieves in law - where disclosing the killer will lead to his death, but banal - hired a wife / husband when dividing property / betrayal / yes, just tired of it). And if the killer is crippled, yes "Pure self-defense it will be "!! Possibly? quite!
2)

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Secondly, these "six", and now are not limited by the framework of the law and may well have illegal weapon

-what if LEGAL?
3)

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Thirdly, what follows from the second, you don’t care from which barrel you are shot from, from legal or illegal, you already will die from this and that.

-the difference is and you are cunning saying that it is not !! If it illegal, they will be searched and maybe they will imprison. Some kind of revenge, to reassure relatives, don’t you find? and a completely different song when legal, they will NOT even be punished symbolically .... self-defense, ep ...
4)

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Fourth, what follows from the second and third, since the threat from illegal weapons already exists and is no less, or even greater, if we take into account "firstly", then the legalization of the Constitutional Court will allow you to increase your security , because not only will the villain have a chance to shoot you, but you will also have a chance to shoot the villain.

-Do you regularly wander around where criminal elements with weapons spin ?? provoke them by showing gold / millions?
5)

Quote: Rakti-Kali

And fifthly, six, and all with trunks, and even those who killed some kind of lonely, from the point of view of the investigation, a priori, not self-defense, but an armed gang

-you FORGET the presence of YOU barrel !!! and this immediately equates them with you - "We walked peacefully without touching anyone, and he attacked us with a weapon !!!" And if they have weapons законно(unlike the current illegal-when they’re really a gang armed!) -nobody will not sew any banditry to them anymore. intent to kill will be gone ...
And 5 your point just cuts off all legalization arguments - everyone thinks that it is only they who can legally own and wave, but they cannot imagine 3 girls (or invalids, or old women of 65 years), for example, this, this there will not be, only exceptionally healthy strong men with big guns and ChSV.
And they themselves cut off their argument - about protection with the help of the Constitutional Court for all

[Rakti-kali]

I answered your question, what you portray as blind is your problem.

Quote: your1970

- offhand - killership (just make a reservation - not oligarchs / thieves in law - where disclosing the killer will lead to his death, but banal - hired a wife / husband when dividing property / betrayal / yes, just tired of it). And if the killer is crippled, yes "Pure self-defense it will be "!! Possibly? quite!

Well, and according to statistics there are many such "killers" using legal barrels? And yet - self-defense does not mean a refusal to investigate, and a criminal case on the fact is likely to be opened anyway. But you stubbornly continue to bend the line - self-defense = legalized murder, either simply from lack of experience, or on purpose, just to somehow compromise the idea of ​​self-defense.

Quote: your1970

and if legal?

Do you even read my answers? Reread again there ANSWERED ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

Quote: your1970

- there’s a difference and you are cunning saying that it’s not !! If it’s illegal, they will be looked for and maybe they will be jailed. Some kind of revenge, to calm the family, don’t you find it? and a completely different song with the legal one - they WILL NOT BE PUNISHED even symbolically .. .. self defense, ep ...

You rave! If after self-defense you do not immediately call the police, you are a criminal trying to hide the murder. As soon as you called the police, the investigation will begin, all options will be checked, including an attempt to conceal the murder by disguise as self-defense, so stop already fantasizing and inventing all kinds of absurdities.

Quote: your1970

-Do you regularly wander around where criminal elements with weapons spin ?? provoke them by showing gold / millions?

Are you sure that your answer somehow correlates with the quote under which you posted it? And yes, I regularly go where criminals turn around with weapons, clubs, knives, "roses", I have already been attacked with injuries. The area is such - dark, poor, next to the industrial zone and plantings, and with a high density of lumpenized population in former factory dormitories nearby.
Although it is not customary to demonstrate "gold / millions" here, but "uncle let me have a smoke / call / for a bottle" happen with enviable regularity.

Quote: your1970

you FORGET YOU have a barrel !!! and this immediately equates them with you - "We walked peacefully without touching anyone, and he attacked us with a weapon !!!"

You do not read what they write to you. So should I continue to throw beads?

[your1970]

You do not want to listen to my arguments - considering yourself to be right, well, God be with you ... I did not convince you - you did not convince me ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

You do not want to listen to my arguments

You have no arguments, but only a hackneyed record about "everyone will shoot each other" and "special forces bandits with X-ray vision will take away weapons from a dull, absent-minded, blind and generally useless owner who would be better off studying for Chuck Norris and I would go to the gym for 18 hours. "

[your1970]

and you have a worn-out record about "Allow KS to everyone !! and everyone will be happy" - because

Quote: Former Russian

the 10-20 hopstopers will fill up,

Quote: Former Russian

because the trunk quickly sobered them up and the guys realized that they would die soon, but that was not a hunt to die and had to run fast! But I don’t have to worry about me, I’ve already worried for myself and I’m not afraid of such figures! So go as you like, and I will be with the trunk and see who will take in the end!

The truth then they make a reservation - that from a certain age, with a certain training and skills, with a certain level of affluence, from a certain locality (because cities up to 100 000 do not have a population of shooting galleries and are not expected, I’m generally silent about villages).
And in the end, it turns out that the barrel will be available to a very limited circle of people, and with the right to shoot first "type" for self-defense (so that the laws stand on their side).
And about the fact that girls / elderly / disabled people who are especially in need of protection will almost not be able to realize this right to the Constitutional Court - the question is somehow not even worth it .........
They remember about him only for justification, "but the granny could shoot the enemies, if she allowed the COP"

[Former Russian]

That's just trying to squeeze six or two, but it did not work out for them to squeeze. the trunk quickly sobered them up and the guys realized that they would die soon, but that was not a hunt to die and had to run fast! But I don’t have to worry about me, I’ve already worried for myself and I’m not afraid of such figures! So go as you like, and I will be with the trunk and see who will take in the end! Your fists against bits and knives or the barrel!)))

[Former Russian]

You know waving fists at the wrong age! If you think that you will stand up against 2-3 young people, then personally I doubt very much that you will succeed!))) Or are you Bruce's reincarnation?

[Irokez]

Quote: Tiksi-3

and in what danger am I?

Yes, in such a way that now everyone knows what you have.
Eh, remember the saying: - "my tongue is my enemy."

[LSA57]

Quote: Irokez

Eh, remember the saying: - "my tongue is my enemy."

and you can add to it, "go now and look around"

[Former Russian]

They will know - they will think! So you know what you don’t have and believe me, I’ll pass, but you’re unlikely! And your denyuzhki will go into other people's pockets, it’s good if they leave their health, and then even pay for the hospital, medicine, etc. !!

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

and later came with daddy’s grenade.

Tell me, was the grenade legally purchased?

[stalki]

If you read koment, you should have understood that the point was not in legality, but in accessibility to children, the context was just that if hypothetically given to everyone a weapon, it would become more accessible to children.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

If you read koment, you should have understood that the point was not in legality, but in accessibility to children, the context was just that if hypothetically given to everyone a weapon, it would become more accessible to children.

Read the rules for storing weapons, if they are not available to children to comply with the weapons. And yes, legality matters, I don’t think that a grenade was acquired and stored in accordance with the rules for the circulation of weapons in the Russian Federation.

[stalki]

Rules are rules, but no one has neglected negligence, you yourself understand. And believe the slobs and simpletons enough. I’m not in your direction, but in general.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

Rules are rules, but no one has neglected negligence, you yourself understand. And believe the slobs and simpletons enough. I’m not in your direction, but in general.

In Russia, for almost 20 years, I can recall 3 resonant cases with weapons that, due to the slovenliness of the owners, fell into the wrong hands, which led to tragic results. Three cases. For twenty years.

[stalki]

So you laid out all the statistics, and even let's say with stolen weapons. Although you can look on the net, you will certainly be surprised at the number of crimes involving theft of weapons.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: stalki

So you laid out all the statistics, and even let's say with stolen weapons.

Have you posted it? Or just laid out is not impressive? In statistics, the number of serious crimes with legal weapons is within the statistical error. Again, I already posted on this site, emnip, I uploaded one, there for 2012 - 2015, if I am not mistaken, it turned out that about 0,12 - 0,15% of serious crimes.

[Consultant]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

In statistics, number of serious crimes with legal weapons is within the statistical error

It (quantity) "there" is as long as the number of legal trunks in comparison with the number of legal knives, hammers, pry bars and rolling pins is also at the level of statistical error.

Will it it to be there after (hypothetical) ligalysis - the grandmother said in two.

Your "argument" ... is not mathematically sinless, to put it mildly.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Consultant

It (number) is "there" as long as the number of legal trunks compared to the number of legal knives, hammers, pry bars and rolling pins is also at the level of statistical error.

In 2016, almost 7 million trunks were registered in Russia with almost 4,5 million owners. Probably even punchers will be smaller. Moreover, the number of trunks is constantly growing, even despite the fact that the number of owners is reduced. At the same time, the number of crimes with legal weapons does not change much, and they give maximum growth traumatic pistols and revolvers.

[Consultant]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

In 2016, almost 7 million trunks were registered in Russia with almost 4,5 million owners

This is not a cop.

And all this is less than knives, pans and rolling pins.

Quote: Rakti-Kali

maximum growth is given by traumatic pistols and revolvers

Exactly. It is pistols and revolvers. That same (holy) cop. As for the fact that they are traumatic, there simply are no other legal ones.

And what do you want to say now? Somehow you didn’t really succeed in objecting.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Consultant

This is not a cop.

And what?

Quote: Consultant

Exactly. It is pistols and revolvers. That same (holy) cop. As for the fact that they are traumatic, there simply are no other legal ones.

The problems of lowering the psychological threshold of application for traumatics have already been written here more than once, so the key here is not "pistols and revolvers", but "traumatic" ones.
Good injuries should be prohibited. Savsam. More often.

Quote: Consultant

And what did you want to say now? You could not argue.

The fact that you did not have the mind to understand something does not mean that someone didn’t succeed.

[Consultant]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

The fact that you didn’t have the mind to understand something does not mean that someone didn’t succeed

Not a brother, you won’t sell an elephant

My friend, I didn’t seem to be rude to you

[Muvka]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

If teachers had weapons, there would be much more such cases. Because the teachers wouldn’t go with the weapon at the ready, but it would lie somewhere where any eccentric with luck could take it.

[novobranets]

Vladimir, I’m sorry, I accidentally clicked on the minus.

[Muvka]

If you can click on the plus. I missed myself yesterday, and then corrected. But in any case, I do not bother with the rating.

[Consultant]

Quote: Muvka

If you can click on the plus

Cool bug, report it if you know who needs it. Now I have practiced - you can first press "+", and there will be +1, then "-", and there will be -1 ... and so on until you get bored.

[Muvka]

It seems to me that this is not a bug, but the ability to correct an erroneous assessment. After all, you can’t put 2 pluses, for example.

[Consultant]

Quote: Muvka

It seems to me that this is not a bug, but the ability to correct an erroneous assessment

Some strange "possible". Like, "if you have already undertaken to put - put at least something." Either minus or plus.

I wouldn’t do that ...

[LSA57]

Quote: Muvka

Teachers would have weapons

and they would be the first victims to capture this weapon

[dr.star75]

Well then, the Russian Federation and the United States should be the first victims of aggression by other states. Because: other countries must attack them in order to get such weapons for their own purposes!

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

Because: other countries must attack them in order to get such weapons for their own purposes!

and you didn’t beguile anything?
An individual with an entire country can be compared only by one who, to put it mildly, did not get enough sleep.
Do you know why at one time police officers were forbidden to carry service weapons outside office hours?
correctly. because they were attacked to capture weapons

[dr.star75]

Quote: LSA57

An individual with an entire country can be compared only by one who, to put it mildly, did not get enough sleep.

This is your private opinion.

Quote: LSA57

Do you know why at one time police officers were forbidden to carry service weapons outside office hours?

Why policemen were given assault rifles: so that hooligans wouldn’t take away their pistols!

Quote: LSA57

correctly. because they were attacked to capture weapons

Well, that's why they are trying to attack police officers in order to seize weapons. And if the bandits knew that they would receive an armed rebuff from the citizens, then even such attempts were not made. It is necessary to change the legislation. So that the inviolability of the person and the home is unshakable. My house is my fortress! After that, not one scumbag will not go to crime

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

Why police officers were given assault rifles

when was it? Yes, even with the "dear love" without a service weapon, they went home. machines were given "in the dashing 90s"

And if the bandits knew that they would receive an armed rebuff from the citizens, then even such attempts were not made.

you have a gun. you go home late at night. one. what prevents 2-3 scumbags from giving you a head in the dark and taking away weapons?
continue. within half an hour they commit an armed robbery. or just killing.
you prove that it was not you who committed the crime, or not an accomplice who arbitrarily gave up arms?

[dr.star75]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: dr.star75
Why police officers were given assault rifles

when was it? Yes, even with the "dear love" without a service weapon, they went home. machines were given "in the dashing 90s"

Well, actually a joke.
Well, on the topic: scumbags need to organize a process to take away my weapons. It’s easier for today: I’m walking down the street, with arms under my arm, and here the bully is trying to take my weapon from me! Naturally, I resist! BUT, after that, He takes someone hostage?

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

It’s easier for today: I’m walking down the street, with arms under my arm,

without a holster?

and then a bully, trying to take away my weapon!

why try? a blow to the head from behind. without any attempt. and you’ll no longer resist

[dr.star75]

Well, I control the situation from behind

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

Well, I control the situation from behind

a woman with a child approaches you and asks to show the way. Do you already control the situation?
go out or enter the staircase, hit!
from a passing car they throw a bottle into the head.
Yes, hundreds of options how to distract you.
4 and 5 people can be criminals. and they will come from different angles. Do you control everyone? they won’t shout at you that they’re going to take away weapons.
Well, the simplest one. электрошокер After all, you don’t look into your hand

[dr.star75]

Yes, you calm down! This option is the only one when they purposefully want

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

This option is the only one when they purposefully want

firstly I'm talking about purposeful action
secondly, the option is not the only one. you forget what inventions our people are capable of. in crowds, people are seized in broad daylight so that no one sees.
yes, if the safes are opened, then a group will take away the trunk from a loner, and even in the dark ... as they say, latrine question

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

you forget what fictions our people are capable of

There is one problem. Only finished chaos will go on such actions, because an ordinary criminal tries to minimize the noise and the number of articles.

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

Such actions will only go to complete chaos,

and who is going to kill and armed robbery?
gopnik? so he doesn’t need a firearm. a kitchen knife is enough

because an ordinary criminal tries to minimize the noise and the number of articles.

"ordinary criminals" do not go to murder. by the way, this is something new in forensics
such crimes are committed by those who understand well that they are going for life and they have an article more, an article less, on the drum

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

and who is going to kill and armed robbery?

What kind of murder are you talking about? In a drunken brawl? To do this, the bruises will go out on the street to stab potential owners of weapons in order to arrange a shoot-out among themselves?
Murder with cooking ?! Tin!
First, guard the owner of the weapon to seize, and then hunt for the victim ?! Yeah ... or for an armed robbery ... when one barrel does not solve anything - you will have to watch not a small bunch of people, so they will not be everyone with a barrel ...
Even with armed robbery, they try not to shoot people, but only to intimidate, otherwise these are other articles.
And it turns out that you take the trunk from someone - you get an "interception" around the city, they begin to develop you. It's good that you won't kill yet. The main "operation" is immediately in jeopardy. At the same time, 99% of you will be shot to kill.
So the possession of weapons for some purpose - this is still hemorrhoids, otherwise the patrols went in small dashes, covering each other, because they are always armed!

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

What kind of murder are you talking about?

about what they’ll accomplish by taking your trunk

Murder with cooking ?! Tin!

so I'm not talking about a drunk household. or are you not aware that they are preparing for crimes?

First, guard the owner of the weapon to seize, and then hunt for the victim?

You have violated the order. in the beginning they designate a victim, and only then the owner of the weapon

Yeah ... or for an armed robbery ... when one trunk does not solve anything -

Well, firstly, depending on what kind of robbery, and secondly, you can "buy" the second and third owner of the barrel
and for the killing three trunks are not needed

Even with armed robbery, they try not to shoot people, but only to intimidate

and if not for a robbery, but for murder?
but for intimidation, a real trunk is not needed. enough injury. not everyone will determine the trauma, or war trunk

otherwise these are other articles

forced to repeat, the killers who know that they face life, the number of articles on the drum

you get an "interception" around the city, they start to develop you.

but "suffered" may not have time to declare. before everything will happen

The main "operation" is immediately in jeopardy.

and if the "operation" is scheduled in a few months, when will the wave subside?

otherwise the patrols went in small dashes

what patrols ??? forgot what are we talking about?
it seems to be so "reported that you no longer understand what nonsense you are talking about.
I was already not interested in discussing

[sak1969]

Quote: Simargl

otherwise the patrols would go in small dashes, covering each other, because they were always always armed!

We have a good example of the USA. There, patrols do not particularly run and stupidly shoot 1000 people a year. And business then.
In the nineties, some went with trunks. And so you sit peacefully in the club, and here the OMON WORKS IN THE FLOOR OMON !!! He got hesitated over the ridge. (Well, it will be so again!)

[Irokez]

Quote: Simargl

Only endless messengers will go for such actions.

You forgot the drug addicts and people offended by life (power), and there are a lot of such people especially in a state of passion.

[Simargl]

Quote: Irokez

You have forgotten drug addicts and people offended by life (power), and there are very many of them especially able to affect.

Strange affect with event planning.
Many drug addicts attacked patrols in order to take possession of weapons?
Offended by life / power, it will acquire a weapon legally ... Oops ... do you think this is what they fear?

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

Many drug addicts attacked patrols

Many drug addicts attacked patrols

that you all rested on patrols? we are talking about a simple citizen who owns the weapon that he carries with him.
Why attack the patrol if it is walking alone on another street and not in uniform, but with weapons ???

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

that you all rested on patrols?

Well, at the moment, thousands of people with legal cops are walking around the city streets. In particular, police patrols. Do you need to chew everything? Why? Can’t you think independently?

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

In particular, police patrols.

again patrols ... that they got in the way ??? This is not the first time they have told you, we are talking about ordinary people, owners of weapons. why attack a group of armed men when it is much easier to take weapons from a civilian in a dark entrance ????
take it easy you with patrols. criminals are not at all

[Consultant]

Quote: LSA57

why attack the patrol if it is walking alone on another street and not in uniform, but with weapons?

Wangyu the emergence of a new type of crooks specializing in exactly this kind of gop-stop. Well, as with the advent of mobile phones, "specialists" immediately appeared)))

[LSA57]

Quote: Consultant

I’m wanging the emergence of a new type of crooks specializing in this kind of gop-stop.

to the gop stop, plus a new crime, but with the use of weapons

[Simargl]

Quote: Consultant

I’m wanging the emergence of a new type of crooks specializing in this kind of gop-stop.

Let me think ...
Squeeze the mobile - how old?
Select a car - how much?
And how many take possession of weapons?
How many hunters have the barrels squeezed out of?

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

How many hunters have the barrels squeezed out of?

How many hunters drag a gun with them through dark alleys, in the hope (in vain) with the help of this "self-defense"? )))

That's it ...

[Simargl]

Virtually everything. In the dark alleys (early in the morning), especially at the opening of the season - straight by the jamb, not everyone has cars (or not everyone wants to use them), they ride the metro, buses ...
That's just it!

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

That's just it!

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

Virtually everything.

Duc and why the criminal going to the robbery hunting rifle?

especially at the opening of the season - straight by the doorposts,

you did not confuse hunting with self-defense?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: LSA57

Duc and why the criminal going to the robbery hunting rifle?

Why would a criminal going to a robbery need a gun?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Consultant

How many hunters drag a gun with them through dark alleys, in the hope (in vain) with the help of this "self-defense"? )))

Thousands! In the morning, you’ll go out at four or five in the dark, but along the alleys until you reach the bus stop. Then, before leaving the city, you will arrive by pawn again, first along the alleys, then along the landings.

[Consultant]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Thousands!

Mulons then ... well, who will rush to such a crowd

And then, why does your robber need your gun? Sawed-off do? Not kosher

By the way, I was talking there about "adventurers who want to defend themselves," and not at all about hunters, who, for the most part, are quite adequate people.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Consultant

Mulons then ... well, who will rush to such a crowd

Ha ha ha ... spicy ... foreign ... Have you ever gone hunting? Or did you have a holy spirit immediately to the storehouse and to the numbers?

Quote: Consultant

And then, why does your robber need your gun? Sawed-off do? Not kosher

And why does he need my gun, because in comparison with my gun, even if you make a sawn-off shotgun of it, is that so, a small fart? Not kosher!

Quote: Consultant

By the way, I was talking there about "adventurers who want to defend themselves," and not at all about hunters, who, for the most part, are quite adequate people.

And what, the hunter does not have the right to defend themselves? Or is the desire to ensure safety a sign of inadequacy? What mirror are you living in? Do you even understand what nonsense debated?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: LSA57

a blow to the head from behind. without any attempt

How does a bully know that the victim has a gun? Will the victim have a sign with an arrow or a bully studied with a superman and has x-ray vision?

[LSA57]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

How does a bully know that the victim has a gun?

read above how the conversation began.
precisely because criminals will hunt for the owners of weapons. and how they find out, this is a separate conversation.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: LSA57

precisely because criminals will hunt for the owners of weapons. and how they find out, this is a separate conversation.

No no no! This is not another conversation! This is a moment of principle! So, how does an attacker know if a person is armed or not, if a person carries a weapon covertly?

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

How does a bully know that the victim has a gun? Will the victim have a sign with an arrow or a bully studied with a superman and has x-ray vision?

-Well, for example, from a friend of the nurse in the registry, who received certificates of a certain form? there is an address, if that ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: your1970

Well, for example, from a friend of the nurse in the registry, who received certificates of a certain form? there is an address, if that ...

Again, this is an absurd situation, firstly, a certificate is given to obtain a license, without specifying the type of weapon that will be acquired (many now attack civilians - owners of weapons in order to seize them? Even less often than police officers.), And secondly, Such a development, with the identification of the address of the actual place of residence, the mode of movement, and other things, is already a serious operational work on which a simple gopot will not bother, and will not be able to. Thirdly, now the market for illegal barrels in Russia is estimated at 1,5-3,5 million barrels, of which about 150 thousand are army weapons, and from 150 to 250 thousand pistols and revolvers, so tell me honestly, you really believe that some kind of bandit will bother with hemorrhoids with the release of the barrel from a civilian (through which all sorts of "interceptions", "sirens", "paths" and other operations will immediately begin) when he already has the opportunity to acquire any the trunk is quiet and quiet?

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

firstly, a certificate is given to obtain a license, without specifying the type of weapon that will be acquired

- wonderful!!!WEAPONS!!!

Quote: Rakti-Kali

secondly, such a development, with the establishment of the identity, address of the actual place of residence, mode of movement, and other things, is already a serious operational work for which a simple gopota will not bother, and it won’t be able to.

- and fraudsters of all stripes spend it robbing lonely old women and old people REGULARLY(see news). Databases are sold right / left. Moreover you SAMI tell your name and home address at the hospital ..... and even a child of 10 years old can figure you out of a particular apartment ...

Quote: Rakti-Kali

Thirdly, now the market for illegal trunks in Russia is estimated at 1,5-3,5 million trunks,

Does the scatter in counting illegal weapons do not bother you? Either lyam, or three ???
and of them type 150-250 KS? and the rest? "oars" Mosinskie / AK / maxims?
These figures are not even from the evil one - they are from the bulldozer .....

Quote: Rakti-Kali

when does he already have the opportunity to acquire any trunk quietly and imperceptibly?

-on any trunk ALREADY there are 2 articles-illegal acquisition / wearing + possible theft. Will there be a third one? That one’s on the drum im-article more / less ....
And by the way, the cop is product which will always be used by criminals, it doesn’t go out of fashion .... so putting a beating conveyer on the head in the porches of the owners of the COP - there’s a good chance ....

[gsev]

LSA57 (Sergey), I think that the offender will choose unarmed as a victim. If the residents of Kushchevka had the opportunity to acquire weapons after the first murder or rape, they would have armed themselves and, when attacking a family, the criminals would run into a shootout.

[LSA57]

Quote: gsev

LSA57 (Sergey), I think that the offender will choose unarmed as a victim.

Yes, it is clear to everyone.
Yes, we say that the owner of the weapon is at even greater risk due to the fact that he can be attacked specifically for the possession of weapons

[your1970]

There were probably hunters in Kushchevka, but the presence of hunting rifles didn’t stop anyone

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Muvka

If teachers had weapons, there would be much more such cases. Because teachers wouldn’t go with weapons

do you understand what you wrote ??? if "it was", then we wouldn’t go with this "was" - you cannot figure it out without 100g

[Muvka]

Quite. Do you think teachers would go to institutions with weapons? Seriously? And in the lessons instead of a pointer they kept a gun? Or would he be lying somewhere with them?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Muvka

In your

in my opinion it is necessary to write not fantasies, but sensible posts

[Simargl]

According to the majority of pacifist guards, the legalization of the cop will lead to the fact that the cop will be sold wherever there are counters: bakery, children's world, auto parts ... wearing the cop - exclusively in the hand directly or behind the belt. Use - for any reason and without. Storage - anywhere, mainly - among children's toys.
Everywhere used cartridges (like cigarette butts now), holes in the walls, corpses around, continuous firing ...
Sick people...

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

Sick people...

I don’t know about whom you sigh about, for example, I don’t count myself sick and can handle weapons. But:

Quote: Simargl

According to most guard-pacifists, the legalization of the COP will lead to the fact that the COP will be sold wherever there are counters: bakeries, the children's world, auto parts ...

Well, no, of course.

But personally, I will be in the case of legalization forced spend time and money in order to also acquire a barrel. Simply because I will promote the emergence of a new way of solving ordinary urban get-togethers (someone pushed someone, someone barked at someone, someone just looked askance at someone) - with the help of that very "holy COP". And I absolutely do not want to be present unarmed.

So clearer?

And, which is characteristic, I’ll certainly do so not alone. Weapons lobby - a clear profit, safety of life - not a fact, not a fact at all.

[Simargl]

Quote: Consultant

So clearer?

No, it's not clear. For "legalization" needs to tighten up the legislative framework. This is for a start.
Well, now - who's stopping to sort things out on clubs and knives? A lot of gunfights with injuries (although in theory - the gum is poorly identified, and it’s more difficult to kill)?
No matter how trying to imagine the pacifist guards, our people are a wild rabble - nothing will happen. No one will even notice, except for those who follow the topic.

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

Well, now - who's stopping to sort things out on clubs and knives?

I undertake to take away the knife with my hands. The trunk - I won’t take it.

By the way, I know personally a couple of cases where the warehouse is used, precisely in the state of affect and precisely during the scandal in transport. I know the participants, that is. Everything worked out there, and everyone is alive. If there were trunks, there would be corpses, with a high probability, and not the fact that only participants of the swara. Closely there because.

Quote: Simargl

No matter how trying to imagine the pacifist guards, our people are a wild rabble

Throw you glue your tags ... I'm not a nifiga pacifist, and certainly not a "guard". I just think that legalizing a COP is about the same as putting out a fire with gasoline. And I am not at all eager to play tough Walker in my old age.

Quote: Simargl

No one will even notice

With your lips ... yes grunt the honey. Sorry, I remembered by chance)))

[Simargl]

Quote: Consultant

I undertake to take away the knife with my hands.

Straight even if the opponent is not below your qualifications. After all, we are talking about the average citizen?

Quote: Consultant

By the way, a couple of cases of using a warehouse, it’s in a state affect and it is during the scandal in transport that I know personally.

Is it affect? Most of these cases are precisely due to a reduced perception of the danger of weapons. With a firearm (not only the COP) this does not work. Because stabbing is practically not covered, and gunfights, as a rare occurrence, relish.

Quote: Consultant

Throw you glue your tags ... I'm not a nifiga pacifist, and certainly not a "guard". I just think that legalizing a COP is about the same as putting out a fire with gasoline.

You are not a guard, and there is a "guard" !!!

Quote: Consultant

Your lips

In the former republics, they didn’t even notice, in fact ...
If the wearing is hidden - no one will notice.
In the United States, in some states, until about 21 years old - only open wearing, then whatever you want ...

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

Is it affect?

Exactly. Word for word, something on the table. I personally know a chela who "applied" a knife in this way. In the subway, under the camera, practically
The quietest guy, the father of the family ... and here you are. I then drove the lawyer to him, the right one, he left already, lives, works.
This is only one case.

Just do not start now the usual "and if he knew that the opponent can have a (holy) COP" ... it's all garbage. In this particular - just garbage.

I personally observe such cases (without knives, but with a massacre or attempts thereof) every month for two or three. People go to work, "they got it up - they forgot to wake it up," but someone else did not leave the weekend ... in general, there are cases. Anyone.

Quote: Simargl

and then the "guard"

Have you ever heard the phrase "matches are not toys for children"? This is a smart phrase.

Quote: Simargl

In the former republics they didn’t even notice

I am sincerely happy for them. But I do not feel the desire to repeat their experiments on myself and people close to me. Well, that’s absolutely no.

IMHO, everything is very clear. You shouldn't agitate me. Good luck in the fight against the inert "sentry horrors"

[Simargl]

Quote: Consultant

Just do not start the usual now "what if he knew that the opponent might have a (holy) COP"

And do not expect!
Now, if he had a COP (saint), he would be afraid to cheat himself ...

Quote: Consultant

Have you ever heard the phrase "matches are not toys for children"? This is a smart phrase.

Right! No one shouting "legalize" is going to hand out KS to the right and to the left (especially to children).

Quote: Consultant

But I do not feel the desire to repeat their experiments on myself and people close to me.

Those. the circulation of many illegal trunks does not bother you, and the possible circulation of legal trunks you? And why? What is the more dangerous legal trunk?

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

Now, if he had a cop

Nonsense. Chela really pereklinilo. And with you for sure this at least once, but it happened. It just happened to me)))

Quote: Simargl

No one shouting "legalize" is going to hand out the COP to the right and left

This is correct, and we have already discussed this. But you still need to extinguish the fire with something non-combustible)))

Quote: Simargl

Those. walking a lot of illegal trunks does not bother you

In the 90s, I've had enough of this stuff, mmm ... I've watched. So it doesn’t bother, there are much less of them now, and the "carriers" are forced to shkeritsya, because wearing itself is already deliberately unsafe.

In the case of legalization, life will become much easier for these "carriers", by the way. IMHO.

[Simargl]

Quote: Consultant

And with you for sure this at least once, but it happened.

When I really could harm a person - no. It didn’t look very good, but better than sitting down — I left.

Quote: Consultant

But you still need to extinguish the fire with something non-combustible

What does the fire have to do with it? Why bind an event forcibly?

Quote: Consultant

"carriers" are forced to shkeritsya

These are those who are 100% illegal. What, there is no relatively legal way to have a COP? Well, for the average person - yes, but if there is money and communication?

Quote: Consultant

In the case of legalization, life will become much easier for these "carriers", by the way. IMHO

You can add to the question above: why? Who wants - and now he has a semi-legal.

[Consultant]

Quote: Simargl

than sit down - I left

Respect. By the way, this means that you have not reached the state of affect. There is no reasoning, believe me.

Quote: Simargl

What does the fire have to do with it? Why bind an event forcibly?

It "binds" itself. You want to avoid conflicts, as I understand it. At the same time, you are ready to give a concealed carrying firearm in the hands of an ordinary citizen (even if it has been trained). IMHO this is the same as adding to the petrol)))

Quote: Simargl

These are those who have 100% illegal

I'm talking about them. As the most potentially dangerous - "semi-legal" trunks are at least registered.

IMHO all the same, everyone should mind their own business - citizens - to live and work, "appropriate services" - to catch crooks. Including those illegally armed. Under the Soviet Union it worked, why can't it work now?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Muvka

Quite. Do you think teachers would go to institutions with weapons? Seriously? And in the lessons instead of a pointer they kept a gun? Or would he be lying somewhere with them?

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Muvka

And in the lessons instead of a pointer they kept a gun? Or would he be lying somewhere with them?

He would lie "in their" holster, which is fastened to the belt under his jacket, and no one would even have guessed that the teacher had a pistol.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

He would lie "in their" holster, which is fastened to the belt under his jacket, and no one would even have guessed that the teacher had a pistol.

-in our school NO not a single male teacher and the average age of teachers is equal 62 years .... There are teachers who taught my mother (1946 born !!!), taught me and taught my son ...
Are you serious about a holster under a jacket ??? Do they ??

[Rakti-kali]

Women also wear jackets, even if they are not very young. And, excuse me, you again come up with some exaggerated absurdities. Don't have male teachers in your school? So what? When I was in school, almost half of the teachers were men, and the female teachers in strength of character (well, except for "biology" and "German") could give odds to any man. Or do you think that an elderly woman cannot have a strong character? So my grandmother in the 90s, at almost 70 years old, single-handedly dispersed three gopniks with her fists, and when one of them returned with a crowbar, like revenge, she took the crowbar from him and brutally beat him with it. And what, based on this example, shall we consider all grandmothers as "superwomen"? So do not try to pull your specific situations onto the globe trying to replace the general with the private.

[your1970]

Quote: Rakti-Kali

So do not try to try your specific situations, try to pull on the globe, trying to replace the general with a private.

-You correctly noticed -Your grandmother is an exception to the rule, our school too-is with an average age of ...72...
and the particular requires consideration, otherwise it turns out that the average temperature in the hospital + 38 ....

[Surg]

And if you read the law, the people would know that the weapon should be either in the safe, and the keys should be with the owner, or with the owner in a holster if we are talking about the cop.

[Simargl]

Quote: Surg

And if you read the law

A little higher I wrote about the guard-pacifists.

[Consultant]

Quote: Surg

or with the owner in a holster if we are talking about the cop

So I imagine a teacher in a lesson ... with a holster. And the waiter in the tavern ... also with a holster. A doctor in the emergency room - and also with a holster ... brrr. In a dream you will see, you will not wake up.

But everything is according to the rules)))

[Surg]

Why not? We have hidden weapons of self-defense and we’ll never guess that I have a pistol belt. Now there are millions of legal weapons in their hands that no one is happy with a shootout. And injuries are also full, especially among the Highlanders. And there’s no shootings.

[Consultant]

Quote: Surg

And there’s no shootings

Gosspadi, how tired you are ... agitators.

[Surg]

Yes, you're tired of it, with fear of a piece of iron. You can kill anything, even with an ice cream stick.

[stalki]

Well, since there are no shootings, why change the law, everything is orderly.

[Simargl]

Quote: Muvka

teachers wouldn’t go with weapons at the ready, but it would lie somewhere

What a blizzard ?! This is a violation of the rules of storage and wearing!
Weapons or in the safe, keys with you, or weapons with you, in the device for carrying (and, most likely, also fastened).

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Muvka

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

If teachers had weapons, there would be much more such cases. Because the teachers wouldn’t go with the weapon at the ready, but it would lie somewhere where any eccentric with luck could take it.

Imagine a picture. Fizruk and trudovik sat down for a bubble at a big break, one had a "stechkin" from another TT ....

[svp67]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

He would have blown it up ...

[Simargl]

Quote: svp67

He would have blown it up

He blew up ...

[Mr Credo]

Now, every teacher must have a gun? Issue in an educational institution? And what about zone personnel? Give them too? The population today has a lot of trauma on its hands. How to protect the owner’s gun? They can attack him and take possession of the trunk. Let's say he used a weapon. Then it is necessary to prove the legitimacy of the application. Is your nose broken? No! So you made an attack! After all, there was no threat to you, no one used violence against you! Follow the article. If killed, then for the murder!

[Simargl]

Quote: Mister Creed

Is your nose broken? No!

No one bothers to break right after ...
Secondly, you need to adopt normal laws.

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

Secondly, you need to adopt normal laws.

the laws on the street are completely different.

[Former Russian]

You know in my opinion it is better for exceeding self-defense by 5 years than in resuscitation with a broken head or even to a churchyard! Everyone chooses what he likes and what he is capable of! But when you fill up 10-20 gop-stopniks, then in and you will see changes, you will walk around the city at night and not take a steam bath that will beat you and rob you in the gateway!

[Former Russian]

Minus)))))! I don’t care at all about these laws, if necessary, it’s possible and outside the law to have a trunk to protect the home and family, and YOU pacifists as in intensive care will find yourself do not cry later!)))

[stalki]

That is precisely because people like you do not care about these laws, weapons should be limited.

[Former Russian]

I have a weapon legally, so the lunge failed! I wrote that if you listen to the pacifists and pass a law banning the sale and possession of weapons, then I will not care for such a law! I love hunting, and because of some not-so-smart people, should I refuse my hobby? Better buy your body armor!

[LSA57]

Quote: Former Russian

But when 10-20 gop-stoppers are filled up

then the machine gun will not help you.

[Simargl]

Do not distort the meaning!

[Former Russian]

You turn on first, and then write the answers! I wrote about when exactly 10-20 hop-stoppers will fail, but why do you need to understand the essence of what is written, the main thing is to fart louder!

[your1970]

Quote: Former Russian

I wrote about when it was 10-20 hoppers who were filled up, but why do you need to understand the essence of what is written, the main thing is to fart louder!

- the police didn’t shoot at the 70-e gopstopers in batches, but then the people were not afraid to walk at night .....

Quote: Former Russian

You know in my opinion it is better for exceeding self-defense for 5 years than in resuscitation with a broken head or even on a graveyard!

-There is a nuance! you may not have excess self-defense - but INTENTIONAL killing...
the timing difference can be sooooo strong

[Former Russian]

Quote: your1970

INTENTIONAL killing ...

Read the definition of intentional killing!

[your1970]

Quote: Former Russian

Quote: your1970

INTENTIONAL killing ...

Read the definition of intentional killing!

Art. 105 Murder, that is, intentionally causing death to another person, -
is punished by imprisonment for the term from six up to fifteen years with restriction of freedom for the term up to two years or without it.

"For murder, a direct (immediate) causal relationship is typical. For example, a shot in the head of the victim entails his death."
They shot at the head of a man, knowing what they were going to kill, shot! They carried the gun with them? They carried it! Is there evidence that confirms that he attacked you? Yes, the demon knows, maybe there is a knife, for example, or a bit, or maybe not. A competent lawyer will go to his relatives as a plus ....
And you sit in bad situations in full ....

Or are you exclusively under cameras, during the day and with witnesses you will defend yourself ???? oh not a fact ... More people here screaming about criminal areas even at night ....

[Former Russian]

Is murder and premeditated murder not different articles?

[Consultant]

Quote: Former Russian

Is murder and premeditated murder not different articles?

Smoke the Criminal Code. Art. 105, 107, 109 ... well, maybe something else, I don’t remember.

[Dude]

It seems to me that one should not think about what happened if the teacher had a trunk, but about why such wild cases occur.

Without going into arguments about Roslyakov's mental status (this is the task of medical professionals), I would note the following moment: in his discussions about life (both according to excerpts from social networks and according to his acquaintances), the leitmotif is the question "what's next?"
The society is stratified, work with young people, for the most part, in words and not in deeds. The school no longer educates, but "provides educational services."
The availability of children's sports is by no means for every family, sports schools, coaches, equipment are a lot of money.
Property and social inequality in society is visible with the naked eye, and children, including those, also see and feel all this on themselves.
And a solution must be sought not in issuing weapons to teachers in schools, or educators in kindergartens, but in pursuing a sound domestic policy by the state, both in general and in particular - youth, social, educational, including.

[Same lech]

Well, Mrs. Glatsky has already spoken out quite clearly about this.

[LSA57]

Quote: Dude

The school no longer educates, but "provides educational services."

Sorry, but how much time the child spends in school and how much in the family.
the school must control which books your favorite child reads, what films he watches, what games he plays, on which sites it hangs?
but nothing that the teacher also has his own family, which also requires attention.
and in the day only 24 hours

[dr.star75]

Quote: LSA57

Sorry, but how much time the child spends in school and how much in the family.
the school must control which books your favorite child reads, what films he watches, what games he plays, on which sites it hangs?

The school owes nothing to anyone! It provides services. Moreover, as the class teacher said: the school only checks what parents taught the child. And the School only shows where you can find training information! And you say training and education! Everything, the caravan is gone.

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

And you say training and education!

I didn’t say a word about education at school. I said that parents should do this first

[dr.star75]

Well, then what are the questions for the school? Do not shoot the pianist, he plays as he can!

[LSA57]

Quote: dr.star75

Well, then what are the questions for the school?

I have no parenting

[Dude]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: dr.star75

And you say training and education!

I didn’t say a word about education at school. I said that parents should do this first

Nobody takes away the parenting function. But to remove from school part of this function, in my opinion, is ridiculous.
Man is a social being, that’s the thing. And at school, IMHO, they study not only subjects according to the program, but also life in society.

[LSA57]

Quote: Dude

Nobody takes away the parenting function.

sure? but I constantly hear and read that school is to blame

But to remove from school part of this function, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

and nobody removes it either. but it’s ridiculous to take responsibility for upbringing on one teacher

Man is a social being, that’s the thing. And at school, IMHO, they study not only subjects according to the program, but also life in society.

and I agree with that.
but all the same, primary education should be given by the family.
if they swear in the family like shoemakers and drink like movers, forgive me the representatives of these professions, will the school remake it?
if he is beaten for the slightest offense, will the school make him kind?
if a husband is clobbering his wife and calling her last words, will he value family relationships?

[sak1969]

Quote: Dude

Quote: LSA57

Quote: dr.star75

And you say training and education!

I didn’t say a word about education at school. I said that parents should do this first

Nobody takes away the parenting function. But to remove from school part of this function, in my opinion, is ridiculous.
Man is a social being, that’s the thing. And at school, IMHO, they study not only subjects according to the program, but also life in society.

I can suggest you watch the movie "Klass" 2007 Ordinary Estonian school, graduation class.

[LSA57]

Quote: sak1969

Normal Estonian school, graduation class.

Yes, something does not pull me to look at Estonian schoolchildren. I don’t care how they are brought up. they are not the future of Russia

[sak1969]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: sak1969

Normal Estonian school, graduation class.

Yes, something does not pull me to look at Estonian schoolchildren. I don’t care how they are brought up. they are not the future of Russia

In the story, you will not feel this Estonian school or ours, Slavs are all.
Well, we watched our "Uchilka" 2015. Not that (trash) but still.

[Dude]

. Sorry, but how much time the child spends in school and how much in the family.
the school must control which books your favorite child reads, what films he watches, what games he plays, on which sites it hangs?

I'm sorry. At school, the child spends a very considerable part of the time. I do not quite understand your question.

Yes, I believe that what books the child reads, the school is simply obliged to control! You know, a lot depends on this. I don’t know if you have come across a Soviet school, but there was the concept of "extracurricular reading". There were lists of recommended literature, supervision by the teacher, and discussion of what students read.

. but nothing that the teacher also has his own family, which also requires attention.
and in the day only 24 hours

And this is already a question not for me, but for the Ministry of Education - why teachers are forced to take overdig hours to feed their families, why there are not enough units in staffing tables, etc. Not only teachers, this is what I said, read it carefully my post. And yes, I know firsthand about pedagogical work (and all its difficulties), even though I have not been working in this specialty for a long time.

[LSA57]

Quote: Dude

At school, the child spends a very considerable part of the time

maximum 6 hours out of 24x

Yes, I believe that what kind of books a child reads, the school is simply obliged to control!

how?

but there was the concept of "extracurricular reading". There were lists of recommended literature, supervision by the teacher, and discussion of what students read.

but besides these books no one else read?

why teachers are forced to take the watch overdrive,

I'm talking about "overdofig"
my neighbor is a teacher. and I know how many hours she leads.
Well, another question. and during the USSR, teachers didn’t take extra hours? didn't drive a few items?

[Dude]

maximum 6 hours out of 24x

Well, if you want "according to the Hamburg count", then do not forget at least another 8 hours for sleep))

how?

I wrote everything, read off the diagonal.

but besides these books no one else read?

Why, read. And they shared what they read.

I'm talking about "overdofig"
my neighbor is a teacher. and I know how many hours she leads.
Well, another question. and during the USSR, teachers didn’t take extra hours? didn't drive a few items?

They took why. But you can’t compare that school with the current one, you won’t deny it? By the way, quiet horror in education at all levels.

[LSA57]

Quote: Dude

Well, if you want "according to the Hamburg count", then do not forget at least another 8 hours for sleep))

and now a simple arithmetic operation 24 - 6 - 8 =?

I wrote everything, read off the diagonal.

I will quote you

There were lists of recommended literature, and control by the teacher, and discussions read by students.

and now I’ll expand my question a little more
how - the teacher - can - control - what - exactly - the student - reads - at home
he will discuss with the teacher for example "Emmanuelle"?

They took why.

then why this passage?

And now this is not a question for me, but for the Ministry of Education - why are the teachers forced to take the watch overdrive, to feed the family,

do you think they used to take it just like that, but now in order to feed the family?

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

and now a simple arithmetic operation 24 - 6 - 8 =?

I propose to complicate. 6/24 = 1/4 - i.e. fourth total time, and this is not enough!
Given 8 hours of sleep, this is already 6 / (24-8) = 0,375 - more than a third of all time, even more. If you think this is small, you have common sense problems.

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

I propose to complicate

why complicate it? the child is in the family really more time
and most importantly in the evening when the whole family is assembled

If you think this is small, you have common sense problems.

that's it, common sense says that at school the child spends time less than home
and no fractions in the simplest arithmetic problem prove the opposite

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

why complicate

Uh ... if you listen to only 5% of the time Russophobic rubbish - after how much time will you become an inveterate Russophobe?
If you think that more than a third of the active time is nothing, then I don’t even know why to discuss with you!

[LSA57]

Quote: Simargl

If you think that more than a third of the active time is nothing

Is this when I said that?
I just said more than once that a child in the family spends time more than at school.
and in the family is laid what will happen to him later

Uh ... if you listen to just 5% of the time Russophobic rubbish

Well, where did you see such a school?

[Simargl]

Quote: LSA57

Is this when I said that?

Repeating many times

Quote: LSA57

that a child in the family spends more time than at school.

You are trying to minimize the influence of the school, although the school takes significant part time child.

Quote: LSA57

Well, where did you see such a school?

What does the school have to do with it? I pointed out that even 5% of the time is enough to form a worldview, and the school takes a third of the time.
Or to understand this - you need special mental abilities?

[Dude]

It’s difficult to discuss with you, you just don’t hear the interlocutor.
They explained popularly about your arithmetic below, but I’ll add: how much of the remaining active time does the child communicate with his family, given that the parents also go to work and not stay at home and wait for the little one to come from the lessons?
So it turns out that having gone home from school, and not to the sports section, music school, chess club or the pioneer palace, the child is left to his own devices, with all the consequences.
The school does not take away the right to parenting, but to help in education should.

how - the teacher - can - control - what - exactly - the student - reads - at home
he will discuss with the teacher for example "Emmanuelle"?

It's very simple - if a child reads only "Emmanuelle" - he will have nothing to answer the question of what he read at home

[stalki]

Let's all hang on school. First, organize at the state level, find high experts, protect them, give money, compensate for the load. My wife is a teacher. Teachers ceased to be respected, generations of morons grew up, gave birth to children and sat on the heads of teachers. And what kind of bureaucracy is now, paperwork, a teacher sits in a place to give children knowledge and draws up paperwork. It is first necessary to return the Soviet school and put the parents in their place, otherwise the relationship is like that of a master with a slave. And then already ask from school.

[LSA57]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

he would have filled him up first to have two trunks.

[sak1969]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

Have you talked with teachers for a long time!? There every second with an unbalanced psyche ...
(Well, they might not shoot at school. But to write the control, it could be at gunpoint. (Joke.))
But seriously. Aim at the child, and shoot. Who!? To the teacher !!! He simply cannot do this ...
You do not understand what you stand for.
In general, the more trunks, the more corpses. (Try to refute ...)

[your1970]

Quote: sak1969

Have you talked with teachers for a long time!? There every second with an unbalanced psyche ...
(Well, they might not shoot at school. But to write the control, it could be at gunpoint. (Joke.))

-fresh
"Teacher of Russian language and literature from the city of Kholmsk, Sakhalin region,otoroy publicly humiliated the student because of her appearance, quit. This was reported by the head of the district education department Tatyana Karnaukh, RIA Novosti reports.
“With an experienced 62-year-old teacher, we talked about the violation of pedagogical ethics and the inadmissibility of such statements about parents and girls. The teacher admitted guilt and quit. But before that, she publicly apologized to her parents and the girl in the presence of the whole class, "- said Karnauch."
And I don’t know anyone there who would shoot if possible on a nervous basis ...

[APASUS]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

Then there would be not two bombs, but three - four! Not everything can be solved by the trunk

[Simargl]

Quote: APASUS

Then there would be not two bombs, but three - four!

And there were eight of them, sort of. Not all used.
Psychologically, it’s easier to put a bomb into action: it is planted and you don’t see the action if you don’t want to.

[APASUS]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: APASUS

Then there would be not two bombs, but three - four!

And there were eight of them, sort of. Not all used.
Psychologically, it’s easier to put a bomb into action: it is planted and you don’t see the action if you don’t want to.

In my opinion there were two of them, one the bombers detonated the second in the dining room. I don’t think what was in the backpack (the main victims were in the dining room, there was really a large bomb, up to kg). But I absolutely agree on the account of psychology. An unprepared civilian with a weapon repels a hijacker, not everyone can shoot a man, and even less so in such conditions.

[Piramidon]

Quote: bogart047

and if that teacher had a trunk, there would be fewer victims.

And if there were a couple of armored personnel carriers in the courtyard of the school, and there was a machine gun on the roof, and students would not be allowed to go to school ...

[Rzzz]

A teacher with a barrel at school - do you really think this is a good idea?

[hrulevv]

Very often, as a reason, many cite the property and social stratification of society, while expelling it during the Soviet era. And why not go a little further on this issue? Tsarist Russia, the chance to climb the social ladder is minimal, the property stratification of society is enormous, but teenagers in educational institutions are not that killing teachers, they did not dare to raise their voices. Could it really be the case in each of us? And the children just lack attention? And in families they are not well explained and shown by their own example what is good and what is bad?

[turbris]

I agree, but we need to pay more attention to single-parent families, where one mother or grandmother brings up the child, and also to oligarch families, where there is no upbringing at all, parents have fun in their own way, and their children in their own way, the result is!

[LSA57]

Quote: turbris

I agree, but we need to pay more attention to single-parent families, where the child is raised by one mother or grandmother,

and this is the concern of the social workers.

[Peter Volkov]

You, Comrade General of the Army, are talking about incomplete, but normal Soviet families and schools. In the article, we are talking about the Crimea, that is, the region filled up to failure with the Khokhlyatsk fifth column. And the local authorities, headed by Aksyonov, clearly cannot cope with this. Personal loyalty here is clearly not enough, highly qualified specialists in second roles in the leadership of Crimea are required.

[your1970]

Quote: hrulevv

Tsarist Russia, the chance to climb the social ladder is minimal, the property stratification of society is enormous, but teenagers in educational institutions are not that killing teachers, they did not dare to raise their voices.

L. Cassille Conduit and Swabrania
read, it’s very informative - how dare they raise a type of voice on a teacher ...

[Pontelimon 5230]

The times of the USSR in the 80s, the school teaches reasonable, kind, eternal, and at this time youth gangs run the streets, in our Saransk they were called "offices".

[LiSiCyn]

And in Alma-Ata, "regions". And to run into it, it was very tough (cut, shoot). But, I do not remember a single case when someone came to school and began to smack, right and left ... The school was "taboo". All showdowns on the "street".

[Polymer]

In Karaganda, such a group was called "kalyaska". And the school was really "taboo". The maximum humiliation of the teacher is a very offensive nickname, which he was called "behind the back".

[StudentVK]

Legalization of a short-barrel, etc., in this case will not help (“Devastation in the Heads”, cited by Professor Preobrazhensky.

[evgen1221]

Our government taught us not to believe what was said. It is possible that they are, but in order not to fade, they threw the desu that there was one.

[Former Russian]

Another storyteller!

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Mister Creed

Is your nose broken? No!

No one bothers to break right after ...
Secondly, you need to adopt normal laws.

?? what are you, what kind of deputies are you, and the laws and there is nothing to blame on the scribbling - blame specific people precisely exposed by the authorities and "chosen" by the people

[Simargl]

Quote: Tiksi-3

which deputies are such and laws

The power of thieves.
Previously - nomenclature, now - chaos and thieves ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Consultant

I undertake to take away the knife with my hands. The trunk - I won’t take it.

Yes ... some violent with knives also wanted to take away a knife from me somehow. Bad ended. For them.

[gunnerminer]

-Based on the data obtained, the investigation concluded that the student Roslyakov acted alone. -

Just like a Norwegian Breivik, a former commando. Allegedly alone.

[Former Russian]

It was not after him that a platoon of special forces ran and helped to finish off, and then they wiped the cameras, witnesses were blabbed and bribed! Do not write nonsense!

[Peter Volkov]

Maybe with the investigation it is necessary to conduct a separate investigation?

[Peter Volkov]

Don't you fuss like that! They will take for Joppa the fifth column of the Hawks, which has dug in in the Crimea, and they will immediately find accomplices. And also where does the money and permission from the tramp for weapons and ammunition come from. And who let him in through the emergency exit to college. And just as it is within 10-15 minutes to produce 70 !!! aimed shots (20 killed and 50 wounded). Did the students stand and do not move, waiting for their bullet, or was the shooter the world champion in the "running boar" target? How many times did you miss? And he did not shoot from a machine gun, but from a hunting rifle, which after a shot must be reloaded. Well, they would say: there is an investigation and the matter is over. Why lie?

[your1970]

Quote: Pyotr Volkov

And after all, he shot from a machine gun, but from a hunting rifle, which after a shot must be reloaded

- ask the American army - why are they still armed with a shotgun? they explain to you popularly - what is it THE BEST weapons for shooting indoors, trenches, etc.
One shot, several dozen buckshots with the slaughter of an ordinary rifled bullet at a distance of 10-15 meters.

[Former Russian]

Do not explain to some! They believe that after the shot it is necessary to reload the gun - it's hunting!))) Like a double-barreled shotgun, I gave it with a doublet and at the fracture to reload it! About buckshot, balls - they do not suspect at all)))! Naive Chukchi youth !!!

[Former Russian]

Watch the video !!!! He enters through the emergency exit - WHICH all students use, the video shows how the door opens in front of him and a girl comes out from there !!! Probably used to go out for a smoke break !!!

Quote: Pyotr Volkov

And just as it is in 10-15 minutes to produce 70 !!! aiming shots (20 killed and 50 wounded)

What about the explosion? You do not consider it? Well then, first review all the information and videos on this case, and then write nonsense!

Quote: Pyotr Volkov

Did the students stand and do not move, waiting for their bullet, or was the shooter the world champion in the "running boar" target? How many times did you miss? And he did not shoot from a machine gun, but from a hunting rifle, which after the shot must be reloaded.

Once again I refer you to the video !!! First: He had a pump (7 + 1 = 8 rounds) + he constantly recharged it, that is, he did not let the store empty !!! Shooting with buckshot in the corridors is very scary, you practically don't need to aim at those who are rushing because this is not a bullet !!! Turn on your head at least sometimes !!! "

[Dr_engie]

I can’t believe something

[Nikolay R]

Maybe he killed children alone, but that someone prepared him for this is one hundred percent.

[Forever so]

Who would doubt that. that this dodger will be declared a loner)) He lived on the moon, Adyn, Sovsem Adyn. He invented everything, did it. Experienced such a little guy. even the location of the explosives, so that mortality would be higher calculated by the SAM. I was only delighted with the photo of his posthumous, he lies such, in an embrace with 12 gauge, his whole head. Apparently it was super rustling, no recoil, and shot small rounds of ammunition so that the head was intact. For suckers will do, but I used to hunt and I know what 12 gauge does. But they said ADYN beat, then ADYN !!!

[your1970]

Personally, you have a lot of manuals on making IEDs on the Internet .... A little book to Help the 1943 partisan of the year find 2 seconds ... and about the whole head ....
In 50, there was a case in the GSVG - it is described, the duty officer came home and there .... He drives them naked into the street, and he decided to commit suicide. Being a punctual man, he decided to shoot in a loop just in case, standing on the balcony on the railing. If I don’t get through, I’ll fall and suffocate in the loop. I did it, I shot, the bullet went into the rebound (!!!!) from the head, it fell - but the rope broke and it was fucked from the 5 floor. According to all the canons, it should to be dead, and he broke his toe (!!!!) on his leg and that's it .....
So it’s impossible to exclude one shot in the head, not the entire charge ....

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Forever so

lies such, in an embrace with 12 gauge, his head is whole.

What should have come off? Have you seen a lot of gunshot corpses at all, but not on TV?

[AleBors]

I did not expect any other conclusions. They wrote off everything to the dead.