Military Review

In the Defense Ministry explained the appearance of E. Prigogine at the negotiations with Marshal Haftar

84
Talks were held between Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the Libyan Marshal Khalifa Haftar. A few years ago, Haftar asked Russia for help to liberate Libya from the terrorist occupation and restore the integrity and sovereignty of the country. Recently, the Libyan marshal repeatedly visited the Russian capital and met with representatives of the Ministry of Defense and members of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.


Attention this time attracted not only the direct negotiations of Sergei Shoigu with Khalifa Haftar, but also the appearance in one of the cadres at this meeting a representative of the restaurant business Evgeny Prigogine. At the same time, Prigogine was at the same table - on a chair between representatives of the generals. The video was published by the Libyan side.



The military department explained the appearance of this man in the frame.

It is stated that Yevgeny Prigogine was organizing the dinner, to which Libyan guests were invited. Also added that Prigogine took part in the discussion of the cultural program for Khalifa Haftar and his entourage.

On the Libyan theme: Libya is divided into territories controlled by terrorists and clans, many of which are controlled by Western intelligence agencies. There are at least two governments in the country, each of which does not recognize the legitimacy of others. In Tobruk, there is a parliament with elected deputies, in Tripoli, the so-called government of national accord. The east of Libya often comes into confrontation with the West of the same country. At the same time, the leader of the eastern part is Marshal Haftar, who is fighting against radical Islamists, including ISIS (* prohibited in the Russian Federation).
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  1. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 10 November 2018 07: 34
    +8
    Here is an example of a real social elevator. The cupboard man easily, in the shortest possible time, turns into the most important person who is present during the fateful negotiations. Without the tedious studies at the VDA, VAGSH, or MGIMO with VIIII. That's what a natural mind means, ingenuity.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 10 November 2018 07: 57
      -3
      Quote: gunnerminer
      present during the fateful negotiations

      well, how much more "fateful" solution of such issues
      was organizing lunchto which the Libyan guests were invited. It is also added that Prigozhin took part in the discussion of the cultural program for Khalifa Haftar and his entourage.

      for this it is very necessary to have a military education
      .Without tedious studies at VDA, VAGSh, or MGIMO with VIIII

      But is it military, and not only they do not need?
      This is what the natural mind means, ingenuity.

      or do you think you can fight and just live?
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 03
        -8
        A fighter without lunch is not a fighter. Poor Lilliputians like Finland, Denmark, or Austria, for example.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 10 November 2018 08: 06
          +4
          Quote: gunnerminer
          Poor Lilliputians like Finland, Denmark, or Austria, for example, can make such a living.

          and forget the laws of hospitality?
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 07
            10 th
            Forget it. This is your right.
            1. LSA57
              LSA57 10 November 2018 08: 10
              +4
              Quote: gunnerminer
              Forget it. This is your right.

              actually I didn’t invite them to negotiations. but I will never go to you.
              hungry from your greed have to leave
              1. gunnerminer
                gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 12
                -8
                Well, I'll never go to you .-

                No one sent you invitations.
                1. LSA57
                  LSA57 10 November 2018 08: 15
                  +5
                  Quote: gunnerminer
                  No one sent you invitations.

                  God save me from such offers No.
      2. SHURUM -BURUM
        SHURUM -BURUM 10 November 2018 10: 11
        20
        It is stated that Yevgeny Prigozhin was organizing lunch
        right at the negotiating table belay Well, we are in your view, a stupid readership, of course they did.
      3. g1v2
        g1v2 10 November 2018 13: 04
        +5
        Guys, are you kidding me like that? It seems that everyone already knows that Prigogine leads the PMC. ITS PRESENCE MEANS ONLY ONE - THE QUESTION OF STRENGTHENING THE PRESENCE OF OUR PMC IN LIBYA IS CONSIDERED. The only question is whether they will protect the oil there or Haftar wants to hire them for other purposes. And naturally, such issues cannot be resolved without our Defense Ministry, otherwise the Chevrons can earn an article on mercenarism. request
    3. kjhg
      kjhg 10 November 2018 08: 01
      +7
      That's what the natural mind means, savvy
      hope it was sarcasm?
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 06
        +3
        Without a mind and ingenuity, a person who has stumbled in his youth, who has unwound a term, cannot make such a career jerk.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 10 November 2018 08: 11
          +1
          Quote: gunnerminer
          Crazy and smart

          but in general in life without these qualities, can anything be achieved?
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 13
            -2
            Ask your older relatives. They will give you advice on how to build your fairway of life.
        2. Arikkhab
          Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 42
          0
          There is still an option - friends ...
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 10 November 2018 10: 37
            0
            Yes. Especially in Asia and the Caucasus, old friendships are valued.
    4. gsev
      gsev 10 November 2018 08: 26
      10
      My niece weaned at MGIMO. A friend served as a nurse in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Evaluation of a niece in 2016 or 2017 (the DPRK will soon be attacked by the United States and collapse as a result of internal tension, anti-personnel mines are inhumane weapons and must be banned, I’m writing an essay on how to expedite it.), And nurses (the DPRK’s air defense is somewhat superior to the Russian and the United States will either be drawn into a prolonged tense conflict or their troops will suffer damage, the restoration of which the United States will spend a long time, mines of Russia’s weapons and propaganda of their prohibition - state change). On this example, I concluded that studying at MGIMO is not a criterion for the ability to defend Russia's interests in the ranks of diplomats. Perhaps it is more correct to recruit diplomats from the Syrian campaign veterans.
      IN AND. Lenin was an unsuccessful lawyer, but under his leadership, Russia for 5 years liberated not only the Crimea, but also Central Asia, the Caucasus, Eastern Ukraine and Belarus, the Far East, and Northern Sakhalin. He also laid down the prerequisites for the defeat of Germany and the solution of the problem of the free exit of the Pacific Fleet into the ocean past the Kuril Islands, the abolition of the conditions of the infamous Port Smert Treaty with Japan
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 40
        -4
        -It is possible to recruit diplomats from veterans of the Syrian campaign more correctly.

        They tried to do such a maneuver with OKSVA veterans in 1984-1988. For a number of objective and subjective reasons, it did not receive noticeable development.

        -My niece unlearned at MGIMO-

        It depends on how I studied. And whether I completed my studies with positive marks. It depends on which faculty I studied.

        But under his leadership, Russia for 5 years -

        But then somehow it went nowhere.
        1. gsev
          gsev 10 November 2018 13: 06
          0
          - "They tried such a maneuver ..."
          An interesting assessment of the traditions of education in Russia by Count Ignatiev. After completing the course of study at the Academy of the General Staff, he received an assignment to prepare an order. He approached this from the standpoint of who will receive this order and his experience, and not what they were taught. As a result, his commander, having read the order, noted that for the first time he saw from a student at the academy a quick and correct implementation of his order. Ignatiev assessed this fact as the need to change the teaching methods at the academy. In engineering, I observed that often a person without a diploma achieves more. It's just that Prigozhin was there for a reason. I would like to note that in Russia self-education is sometimes more effective than formal education. For example, in France, an officer is undergoing retraining before taking on a new position. And all over the world, established politicians are appointed to the rank of diplomats. The benefit of education is that it weeds out those who are able to learn. The question remains, can a graduate study and think independently. In my opinion, freedom of attendance, the possibility of independent choice of subjects of study in the West, is designed to help weed out those who are unable to think and study independently. American physicist Feynman colorfully describes how Latin America he found out that the graduates of the local university almost 100% do not know physics. In his "Lectures ..." there is a mention that he is glad if from the course of those listening to his lectures at the California Technological Institute there are several people who understand them.

          "But then somehow it didn't go anywhere."

          Lenin could not influence events 60 years after his death. Gorbachev and Yeltsin did not influence anything immediately after his resignation.
          .Yes, and the traitor in the headquarters will always break plans for successfully launched actions ..
      2. Ros 56
        Ros 56 10 November 2018 09: 50
        +2
        You just forgot that Lenin was a very educated person. So without education anywhere, especially the political and economic plan.
      3. Dude
        Dude 10 November 2018 12: 11
        0
        IN AND. Lenin was a failed lawyer

        More than a controversial statement! repeat
        1. gsev
          gsev 10 November 2018 12: 29
          +1
          As a politician, he has no equal, but as a lawyer, he did not seem to have conducted less than 20 cases. Their move is interesting only because they were led by a future politician. Pleve is far from him. Objectively, he influenced the development of history more than Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt. What is debatable here?
          1. Dude
            Dude 10 November 2018 14: 20
            -1
            Quote: gsev
            As a politician, he has no equal, but as a lawyer, he did not seem to have conducted less than 20 cases. Their move is interesting only because they were led by a future politician. Pleve is far from him. Objectively, he influenced the development of history more than Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt. What is debatable here?

            It is strange to compare Pleve, the mastodon of the bar, with young Lenin, a young practitioner. However, the latter was quite successful in this field, at an appropriate level, of course.
            It would be foolish to argue with the rest that you said hi
            1. gsev
              gsev 10 November 2018 14: 46
              +1
              Then I agree, I simply expressed this thought in my own way.
    5. snake
      snake 10 November 2018 10: 32
      +2
      Prigogine is such our, domestic, budgetary Bob Denard (both because he is being fed by the Russian budget, and because he is like Denyug as Zyuganov and Che Guevara). Well, part-time cooks. Like Steven Seagal in the Siege 1/2 films.
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 10 November 2018 07: 36
    +5
    It is stated that Yevgeny Prigozhin was organizing a dinner to which Libyan guests were invited.

    ... well, what about without lunch? ... earlier, in the 70 bathhouse,% of all meetings were decided ...
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 10 November 2018 07: 41
      -1
      -earlier, in the bath 70% of all meetings decided ...-

      It was the President of Finland, U.K. Kekkonen, who wanted a part of the leadership of the USSR for the sauna. In the 90s this style of receptions received additional acceleration.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 10 November 2018 08: 06
        +5
        Then at the meeting there must be a bath attendant .. wassat But seriously .. Really "catering" decided to bend in the sense of throwing some money on the liberation of Libya.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 09
          0
          Libya’s liberation requires more than money: it needs a transport fleet, weapons and ammunition, medicines, dressing materials, spare parts and accessories for equipment, communications, etc. For the operational activities of the subordinates of Marshall Haftar and his fellow tribesmen.
          1. Arikkhab
            Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 38
            +1
            There is no need to get excited about "liberation", and Haftar is not as popular in Libya as he would like. And the rest is true
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 10 November 2018 10: 38
              0
              -About "liberation" do not get excited, -

              Not going to wallow in the Libyan canal, with damaged limbs.
          2. gsev
            gsev 10 November 2018 13: 17
            0
            To restore order in Libya, only the presence of Libyans is required, ready to sacrifice their ambitions and risk their lives for the restoration of their homeland. If they are numerous and united in these aspirations, they can be helped. If not, you need to wait until they appear. Any people will either perish or self-organize. NATO officials seem to be interested in chaos, but resources must also be spent to maintain it. Also in Ukraine, as long as there is no shame on the money of foreign foundations or oligarchs to fulfill other people's interests, the majority of the population will become poor.
        2. Arikkhab
          Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 39
          -2
          Did the "chef" really represent "public catering"?
  3. akudr48
    akudr48 10 November 2018 07: 37
    +1
    Prigogine is the cook of our guarantor, and to whom, besides him, to organize a lunch for the marshal, is not Shoigu ...
    1. igorj 51
      igorj 51 10 November 2018 07: 57
      +8
      And given that he is not only a cook, his companies have almost half of the contracts for the supply of food for the army, and for the consumer services of military towns of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, as well as he actually finances the well-known PMC Wagner, then who else but Prigozhin will organize a dinner for dear guests .. Yeah ...
  4. A good one
    A good one 10 November 2018 07: 58
    +7
    Something is all muddy. request Lunch, cultural issues.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 04
      +1
      There is a prospect of development and the Libyan express. The air bridge is unlikely to succeed.
    2. Professor
      Professor 10 November 2018 08: 13
      +8
      Quote: Not bad
      Something is all muddy. request Lunch, cultural issues.

      Just everything is clear. Cooks NEVER sit at the same table when receiving delegations. This is the protocol. His place in the kitchen. A bald civilian is simply interested in Libyan oil. There is no secret in this.

      Another thing is surprising. The chief of the general staff himself already does not decide anything, neither in Syria, nor in Libya. The former cook, and now a private individual, decides.

      Ps
      How can I not recall the mess in Dir al-Zora ....
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 10 November 2018 08: 23
        -2
        -A bald civilian is simply interested in Libyan oil. There is no secret in this .-
        + 100!

        -How can I not remember the mess in Dir al-Zora ....-

        This is the fight against terrorism (oil and gas). On far approaches. The invasion of the DRA also posed the overriding task of creating a threat to the oil fields in the Persian Gulf. But the resource was not objectively evaluated, and the reaction of some Arab countries and Iran was incorrectly calculated.
        1. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 10 November 2018 08: 35
          +3
          Quote: gunnerminer
          A bald civilian is simply interested in Libyan oil. There is no secret in this .-
          + 100!

          A lot of bald ... A little oil ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 November 2018 09: 47
            +3
            Quote: 30 vis
            A lot of bald ... A little oil ...

            good

            Quote: LSA57
            But is there really a reception? there is just a discussion of the program

            Yeah. They discuss menus with marshal. wassat

            Quote: LSA57
            right. the chief of staff does not solve the issues of the menu for lunch and the cultural program.
            maybe you have the opposite ... probably

            We have a cook's place in the kitchen.
            Our businessman does not sit on a par with the generals at the reception of a foreign military delegation.
            Our army does not solve the problems of any of the oligarchs.

            But this is with us ...
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 10 November 2018 11: 18
              +1
              You are special! You have no bald ones .... All beautiful, slender tall blondes with blue eyes .... The highest morality and unprecedented honesty ... laughing
            2. g1v2
              g1v2 10 November 2018 13: 08
              +2
              Therefore, you are offended by a small Shiite organization with a piece of land the size of a stool. request Although the interests of Libyan oil is not your concern. You have a tiny evil Hezbollah - the main threat. Butting with them, and big politics will somehow happen without you. wink
            3. Rzzz
              Rzzz 11 November 2018 02: 46
              -1
              Our army does not solve the problems of any of the oligarchs.


              Come on????? But whose tasks does it then solve?
          2. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 10 November 2018 10: 39
            0
            Yes, the weak, with oil reserves rarely survive.
      2. LSA57
        LSA57 10 November 2018 09: 21
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        Cooks NEVER sit at the same table when receiving delegations.

        But is there really a reception? there is just a discussion of the program
        The chief of the general staff himself doesn’t decide anything,

        right. the chief of staff does not solve the issues of the menu for lunch and the cultural program.
        maybe you have the opposite ... probably
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 10 November 2018 10: 43
          +4
          You are right. In Israel, the opposite is true. In the sands and heat, they managed to create a powerful agriculture that could easily feed even the entire Middle East. They easily beat enemies with numerous armies. Children of high-ranking officials serve urgent. Large owners and business executives do not buy real estate in Iran or in Syria does not send their loved ones there. They were able to create their own aviation out of nothing. And most importantly, they raised patriotic youths. They spend 50 times more on medicine than in the Russian Federation. Without oil, gas, gold, platinum, endless taiga or a lake with large reserves of fresh water.
      3. gsev
        gsev 10 November 2018 13: 21
        -1
        "The chief of the general staff doesn't decide anything himself,"

        What attention to Gerasimov and Prigogine !!! It seems their influence is great. And their actions apparently broke many plans of the adversary!
    3. aszzz888
      aszzz888 10 November 2018 08: 16
      +1

      Nice Today, 07: 58 NEW
      0
      Something is all muddy. request Lunch, cultural issues.
      ... so there is something to discuss on the cultural side ... wink
      At the same time, the leader of the eastern part is Marshal Haftar, who is fighting radical Islamists, including ISIS (* prohibited in the Russian Federation)
      1. Arikkhab
        Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 35
        0
        He is not a leader. Even the eastern part. Minister of Defense rather
    4. LSA57
      LSA57 10 November 2018 09: 17
      -2
      Quote: Not bad
      Lunch, cultural issues.

      Do you think they should be left hungry?
      basic courtesy towards the guest
      don't you do this when your guests are at home?
      1. Arikkhab
        Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 34
        +4
        Going to a restaurant to celebrate a family anniversary, are you also setting a restaurant's turn? Generally not unless it is your good friend
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 10 November 2018 09: 38
          -4
          Quote: ArikKhab
          Going to a restaurant to celebrate a family anniversary, are you also setting a restaurant's turn?


          with the cook discuss the menu. is not it?
          Usually not

          where you see that he is sitting exactly at the table major negotiations?
  5. Non liberoid Russian
    Non liberoid Russian 10 November 2018 08: 05
    -3
    gave the Sumerians a reason to shout about the "Rogozhin trolls" ...
  6. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 10 November 2018 09: 00
    +7
    It is stated that Yevgeny Prigogine was organizing the dinner, to which Libyan guests were invited. Also added that Prigogine took part in the discussion of the cultural program for Khalifa Haftar and his entourage.
    Nonsense, solicitors NEVER sit down at the same table with gentlemen of all stripes. This is such political etiquette and NORM.
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 10 November 2018 09: 40
      -3
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      It is also added that Prigozhin took part in the discussion of the cultural program for Khalifa Haftar and his entourage.

      under the table should they solve this?
      1. Professor
        Professor 10 November 2018 09: 49
        +4
        Quote: LSA57
        under the table should they solve this?

        Aren't you from the Prigogine troll factory? You are very thickly defending him.
        1. Starikan-m
          Starikan-m 10 November 2018 10: 32
          -2
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: LSA57
          under the table should they solve this?

          Aren't you from the Prigogine troll factory? You are very thickly defending him.

          Trolls mostly come from Israel and for some reason they are very tenacious professor! I haven’t walked in turtles for a long time and took wings here I look "consultant"? well, continue to gloat and mock Russia ..
          1. DEDPIHTO
            DEDPIHTO 10 November 2018 11: 13
            +3
            Quote: Starikan-M
            Trolls come mainly from Israel, and for some reason they are very tenacious professor!
            Ah yes Meehan, took yes and surrendered himself. lol Have you recently suggested that political leaders in Israel buy wassat
            1. Starikan-m
              Starikan-m 10 November 2018 11: 50
              -2
              Quote: DEPHIHTO
              Quote: Starikan-M
              Trolls come mainly from Israel, and for some reason they are very tenacious professor!
              Ah yes Meehan, took yes and surrendered himself. lol Have you recently suggested that political leaders in Israel buy wassat

              They haven’t gone anywhere .. even give bribes to our authorities to appear in the media!
              Tashkent political administration, again raising its head! These are the things on the front line, in the trenches of ALEX! soldier
        2. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 10 November 2018 11: 22
          -2
          Prigogine’s cuisine is well-known ... Not everyone is useful ... It is contraindicated for some, deadly. Look how you all bequeathed!
      2. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 10 November 2018 09: 49
        +2
        The practice is that usually this is discussed even BEFORE the visit /// so that the FSO has time to recapture the Cultural and Cultural Program. "And the presence at the negotiating table of such a level of solicitor for me never I didn’t come across. And believe me, I ate more than one dog, and all thoroughbreds. I look forward to the Trump-Putin talks. There will probably be three of them, not the binary format wassat
  7. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 10 November 2018 09: 07
    +5
    Quote: LSA57
    but I will never go to you.

    It’s not worthwhile to conduct a dialogue with the troll. I’m worried about another question: what will we have with this help and will we not shed our blood? on their own. And moreover, at no cost, although ordinary people in Russia do not receive anything at all for that, giving everything ?????????
  8. Jerk
    Jerk 10 November 2018 09: 14
    +3
    And then the elevator then did not call? This is Chaldea, his job is to bring it, and GO OUT! Do you have a meeting of defense ministers or a booze in the garage ?! Mess!
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 32
      +6
      This is not a mess. This is an indicator of who is who. The mess is why photos leaked online
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 10 November 2018 10: 05
        0
        Quote: ArikKhab
        The mess is why photos leaked online

        Get used to it already. Since the Pentagon launched its Internet ---- we live in a world of glass walls. The war of motors has come to an end, it is used as a "finishing blow" with a dagger. And the main sword is information war. At the dawn of the century, I am in the form of a playful debate, I read a short lecture to my fellow student about the defining nature of information wars and their place in the strategy of struggle of the 21st century. He then criticized me, bombarded me with arguments, then, yes ... And now at every meeting he remembers my theses and admits that was wrong. true friend.
  9. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 10 November 2018 09: 31
    +5
    Why ... It’s quite normal ... Cook Trump also sits next to him at the talks .... Cook Merkel - in the next chair ... These are the rules of etiquette in high society - to invite personal cooks to participate in state negotiations
  10. Dimy4
    Dimy4 10 November 2018 09: 32
    -1
    Operation SUCCESS has begun. Train!
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 10 November 2018 11: 33
      -1
      Everything is easier there .... in the internet they write that the subject and PMC .... well .... you know yourself .... wink
  11. samarin1969
    samarin1969 10 November 2018 09: 32
    +1
    Each time has its own A.D. Menshikovs .... Only today there are a lot of them. People "go up" on their "service" social elevators ....
    It's funny that the MoD generally commented on something.
  12. Samara_63
    Samara_63 10 November 2018 09: 55
    -1
    This bald man just apparently works undercover, but it is not clear why he reveals himself? The GRU leadership can no longer work?
  13. Starikan-m
    Starikan-m 10 November 2018 10: 28
    -3
    In the Defense Ministry explained the appearance of E. Prigogine at the negotiations with Marshal Haftar

    We love to constantly make excuses in Russia, we are constantly caught on this ..
    The answer should be "none of your business" AND EVERYTHING!
    But the most interesting thing is the essence of the negotiations, as always left behind the scenes ..
    Gentlemen, are you afraid that Russia will agree with Libya and unite this country? That’s what you are terribly afraid of. You will have to answer for the robbery and murder of the Libyan leader ..
    Sarkozy, then he is probably afraid of the trial, for which he was the first to launch the bombing of Libya (which is still not an aggressive, but independent country with a high level of social policy?
    Well, the United States, of course .. Why did the gentlemen bomb Libya? The question is open ..
  14. donavi49
    donavi49 10 November 2018 10: 39
    +2
    Hike to Tripoli soon. Therefore, the field marshal came to promise the bowels in exchange for large broads and assault squads.
  15. Sedoy
    Sedoy 10 November 2018 10: 55
    +6
    how the kid came to success ...

  16. Snail N9
    Snail N9 10 November 2018 10: 59
    +5
    Well, yes, he was organizing dinner, why is there .... and the well-known "cellist" was going to organize a concert ... wink
  17. Chicha squad
    Chicha squad 10 November 2018 11: 43
    0
    Well now Wagner PMCs in Libya will eat well. The leader himself will cook the food.
  18. Kapkan
    Kapkan 10 November 2018 16: 17
    +1
    What do they say about cooks? They should be the first to arrive at the place, clear the territory, prepare food for the arrival of the main forces ... Everything is normal!))
  19. Mentat
    Mentat 10 November 2018 16: 27
    0
    Quote: gunnerminer
    You are right. In Israel, the opposite is true. In the sands and heat, they managed to create a powerful agriculture that could easily feed even the entire Middle East. They easily beat enemies with numerous armies. Children of high-ranking officials serve urgent. Large owners and business executives do not buy real estate in Iran or in Syria does not send their loved ones there. They were able to create their own aviation out of nothing. And most importantly, they raised patriotic youths. They spend 50 times more on medicine than in the Russian Federation. Without oil, gas, gold, platinum, endless taiga or a lake with large reserves of fresh water.

    You go too far with the propaganda of paradise in Israel. This is your professional deformation, apparently. Usually you write with a mocking sarcasm about Russia, and then you had to about Israel, and something went wrong.
    Just a couple of pluses to paradise Israel, and yet your mocking sarcasm usually gains more.

    Well, let's do it in order. First about your beds. The actual "sand and heat" you do not occupy vast territories. Moreover, where the Negev desert is supposedly located on the map, forests grow, cities are built and are intensively engaged in agriculture. The rest of the place is not only suitable for farming, but located in the subtropics, in the north there is high humidity. And this is not some kind of innovation, these zones have been cultivated since antiquity. “Managed” you there only with a plumbing system. And is this something unique? Asians dug themselves digging sticks with digging sticks since the time of the dinosaurs)

    What's next for you? In one fell swoop of all the beatings. You read the works of veterans there, how easy it was, and how you were on the verge of destruction and depended on the supply of weapons. And now the modern “Gunnermuiner” writes how everything was there easier than seven left.

    They serve, do not buy. Buy everywhere and that's it. Deal with your service yourself, but if you begin to have massive slopes on acquaintance and position, what will be left of your army? Wrong human resources, see paragraph above.
    As for the purchase of land, who will sell it to you now, when, as a considerable number of Jews write on this site, are you formally at war? Therefore, you can safely write, of course, that they do not buy)

    However, can you tell us what the Jewish National Fund is? Quote to expand your horizons: “The goal of the National Fund is the acquisition in Palestine, Syria and the Sinai Peninsula of land in the inalienable national property of the entire Jewish people.”
    Of course, you annealed nobly about sending your loved ones to Iran and Syria. As already mentioned, apparently the consequences of something like a professional deformation - you can not resist the mocking nonsense.

    They were able to create their own aviation out of nothing.

    And what samples created from nothing are in service with the Israeli army? By the way, do you buy military aircraft abroad for this reason?

    most importantly, raised patriotic youth

    Well done. Can a state exist without patriotic citizens who are ready to defend their country?

    They spend 50 times more on medicine than in the Russian Federation.

    This, to put it mildly, is not true. Although, objectively looking at things, Israel has strong medicine, and in Russia it needs reconstruction in essence.

    Lacking reserves of oil, gas, gold, platinum, endless taiga or a lake with large reserves of fresh water.

    Envy is not good.
    However, you have full carte blanche from the USA. Will you deny it? :) And thanks to him, a warm place in the global economic system. So don’t moan.

    PS I don’t, of course, have any negative attitude towards the Jewish people, however, it is necessary for individual citizens who are too keen on waving words in the direction of Russia to clarify the real situation from time to time)
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 10 November 2018 19: 47
      0
      If it was so bad, the flow of engineers and technicians from the USSR in 1973 and later did not break into Israel. And also from countries of the former republics of the USSR. Since 1991, the Russian governments have not been able to create such a patriotic society and such combat-ready Armed Forces. have the citizenship of Iran or Syria, Russia. The Head of the National Guard of the Russian Federation, the most expensive, granddaughter, lives in the UK. The head of Aman or Sherud Mossad, or Shabak, the grandchildren do not live in the SA, or in Russia. There is no flow of Israelis being treated in Russia clinics, and vice versa. Russian governments had even greater carte blanche, 30 years of peace and several trillion dollars of easy money for hydrocarbons since 2000.
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 10 November 2018 19: 53
      +1
      -By the way, are you buying military aircraft abroad for this reason?
      -

      The Russian aviation industry cannot even buy abroad. It produces planes from Soviet backlogs. The T-50 model proved to be needed from American components, and even at a horse price.

      In Russia, it needs reconstruction in essence.

      Three more such reconstructions for another year, and there will be nothing to reconstruct. Especially military medicine, defeated by Makrov and Serdyukov. Look at the premises of the central clinic at Sadovaya in St. Petersburg, or at the premises of the Military Medical Academy in St. Petersburg, near the metro. Razrukh, everything rests only on selfless the work of doctors, paramedics and nurses.
      -
  20. Mentat
    Mentat 10 November 2018 20: 15
    0
    Quote: gunnerminer
    The T-50 model was found to be consumed from American components, and even at a horse price.

    You, it seems, have completely earned, you already have nervous breakdowns and bouts of withdrawal into an alternative reality. Observe occupational health! Ventilate the room, otherwise the western spirit of freedom turns out to be overturned, and yours begins ... well, that’s what is quoted above begins.
  21. Mentat
    Mentat 10 November 2018 20: 56
    +1
    Quote: gunnerminer
    30 years of peace and several trillion dollars of easy money

    This is what the stale spirit of freedom brings to you, apparently, an overdose.
    30 years of peace ... What peace? since the 90s we have been pressed to destroy, what are you carrying there?

    "Parade of sovereignty" with the filing of Yeltsin on plans to divide Russia into parts.
    "Democrats" trained in Yale.
    Oligarchs rushing to power, ready to sell for nothing to the West what they got during the "privatization".
    Crazy contracts for the sale of natural resources at prices even less than those given to African dictators.
    Streams of drugs from Afghanistan. The whole city, along the streets of which lay syringes. Somehow painfully reminiscent of the opium wars in China.
    Theft of intellectual property and bankruptcy of key enterprises.
    “Imported” destructive sects of all stripes. Do you quote the Scientology training manual that they tried to introduce in schools?
    Are you aware that they created child pornographers here to export this, so to speak, product to the West? In Ukraine, a nightmare was happening in this area.
    Sanctions.
    Then repeated attempts at color revolutions.
    Then a lot of sanctions.
    World speak?
    Plus, their own corrupt degradants, who no longer knew where to put the money, didn’t even gobble it up.

    Stop breathing already from the package “spirit of freedom”.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 11 November 2018 00: 35
      +3
      -Then a lot of sanctions .-

      The Supreme Commander-in-Chief said that sanctions were only good. Agriculture rose, import substitution took place and the nation rallied. The oligarchs transferred their capital from British offshore and American banks to Russia.
      -Flows of drugs from Afghanistan-

      Even now there are even gigantic streams. Even had to disperse the FSIN, whose head became one of the richest Russians.
  22. Mentat
    Mentat 11 November 2018 16: 06
    +1
    Quote: gunnerminer
    The Supreme Commander-in-Chief said sanctions are only good.

    If measures like violence are needed to move things forward, that means the situation is, to put it mildly, awful. In particular, because in the West capitalism in its modern form has developed over the centuries, we have been “quickly introduced” in the form of a shock. Another shock was required for certain parts of the economy to get a push in the right direction. This does not mean that sanctions in themselves are good. Only that as a result of these influences, unexpectedly for the West, by the way, positive shifts occurred in certain areas of the Russian economy.