Military Review

Russia and China will be engaged in joint development of rocket engines

92
Russia and China will be engaged in the joint development of promising rocket engines on hydrogen and methane. The corresponding protocol was signed between the Russian engine-building holding NPO Energomash and the Chinese Space Corporation of Science and Technology, according to the Roscosmos website.


Russia and China will be engaged in joint development of rocket engines


The signing of the protocol took place within the framework of the International Air Show of the Air Show China 2018. From Russia’s side, the protocol was signed by Igor Arbuzov, Director General of NPO Energomash, from China’s side, by the President of the Sixth Academy of the Chinese Space Corporation of Science and Technology Liu Zhizhan. As Roscosmos explained, Russia and China are planning to cooperate in the development of liquid rocket engines for oxygen-kerosene, oxygen-hydrogen and oxygen-methane components.

Earlier, Roscosmos and the Chinese National Space Administration have signed several protocols providing for a number of joint projects in space exploration, in particular, a joint study of the Moon and deep space, Earth monitoring and satellite navigation, as well as some others. The signing took place at the 19 meeting of the subcommission on space cooperation of the Russian-Chinese Commission, which took place on September 28 in Beijing.
Photos used:
https://ru.depositphotos.com/
92 comments
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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 8 November 2018 14: 01
    +31
    Well, what will it give us? It’s clear with China that they will take over technology and experience .. Then they will start selling to the whole world, including to us, what we once could do .. In general, China plays with one goal, and ours swallows .. The last, where we still strong, thanks to the Soviet school and science, we are ready to give it, as I understand it .. Cooperation would be normal, we do it, but they buy and finance the development ..
    1. vkl.47
      vkl.47 8 November 2018 14: 07
      +7
      And we alone simply will not pull large space projects. There are no people like Korolev. People who have raved about space.
      1. sir_obs
        sir_obs 8 November 2018 15: 08
        +21
        Such as Korolev is, there are simply more like Kudoin and Nabiulina who say that there is no money for it
      2. venik
        venik 8 November 2018 16: 17
        0
        Quote: vkl.47
        And we alone will not pull big space projects.no such as Korolev. People who roamed the cosmos.

        =======
        And yet - NETU MONEY to implement grandiose projects !!!
      3. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 8 November 2018 22: 35
        +2
        There are no those who stood at the origins and furious energy, rooting for the country, really pushed progress in technology forward. And now this is eating up old designs. Nothing fundamentally new is being created, it is only being modernized. In particular, where is even a prototype rocket type spiral or better? or a two-medium high-altitude aircraft? In theory and the media, thumbnails are sawn on a computer, but we won’t wait in metal.
    2. Voyager
      Voyager 8 November 2018 14: 08
      +7
      Quote: Svarog
      Well, what will it give us?

      Financing. Your cap hi
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 8 November 2018 14: 15
        +15
        Quote: Voyager
        Quote: Svarog
        Well, what will it give us?

        Financing. Your cap hi

        And why do we need such financing, the benefits of which China will use. And why can not we find money for this project on our own? Why, the USSR could, while feeding the whole world, distributing free housing to its citizens, containing a huge army, etc. And today's Russia cannot, despite the fact that the state has practically thrown off all social obligations and taxed itself
        I can’t help my citizens ... Where is the money Zin?
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 8 November 2018 14: 20
          -16
          Do you agree to sell your car, phone, computer and live without all this? And walk in gray or gray. Because one brand of clothing. In the USSR, people essentially only had food. No benefits of civilization. All the money went to what you called.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 8 November 2018 14: 28
            +18
            Quote: Muvka
            And you agree to sell your car, phone, computer and live without it all

            And what do we produce from the above?
            Quote: Muvka
            In the USSR, people essentially only had food. No benefits of civilization. All the money went to what you called.

            Complete nonsense! Did you even live under the USSR? The good of civilization, what do you mean by them?
            1. Muvka
              Muvka 8 November 2018 14: 49
              0
              I didn’t consciously live, but my parents lived. Although his father speaks very flattering about those times, he himself says that there was nothing. They watch old films shot in the Czech Republic or the Baltic states and all the time they say that they did not have everything that was there. They wonder where it all came from in those days. I'm not talking about Colombo. Compare what they had and what we had.
              1. Hypatius
                Hypatius 8 November 2018 14: 58
                +3
                Compare what they had and what we had.
                According to this logic, the Russian Emperor was a complete rogue laughing No TV, no cell phone ...
                1. Muvka
                  Muvka 8 November 2018 15: 01
                  +3
                  Comparison is in one time period.
                  1. Hypatius
                    Hypatius 8 November 2018 15: 03
                    +5
                    Oh, tinkering. Many often confuse progress with wealth.
              2. Svarog
                Svarog 8 November 2018 15: 04
                +5
                Quote: Muvka
                I didn’t consciously live, but my parents lived.

                This is noticeable.
                Quote: Muvka
                father is very flattering about those times

                And it didn’t come to your mind why such a contradiction, on the one hand, your father flattered about the USSR, on the other there was nothing .. You ask why all the same memories are flattering ..
                1. Muvka
                  Muvka 8 November 2018 15: 12
                  0
                  Because it was youth. Now some people remember the 90s as pleasant times.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 8 November 2018 16: 46
              -2
              We already produce everything - including foreign brands, since their production in Russia, moreover, we even export these products abroad.
          2. Mih1974
            Mih1974 8 November 2018 14: 30
            +6
            Listen to Khazin, Satanvsky, Delyagin = in Russia's budget 9, NINE trillion rubles lying in ballast !!! The budget included a price of oil of 40 bucks, ALL of the above are immediately selected in the budget, and now multiply these figures and Russia's export of oil !! fool Why do you need to sell there so that Russia finances space? am
            1. jjj
              jjj 8 November 2018 14: 51
              0
              Soon we will create a system of defense of space objects from hostile attacks
            2. Machito
              Machito 8 November 2018 14: 57
              0
              There is no money for retirement, but you are space tongue
            3. Vadim237
              Vadim237 8 November 2018 16: 49
              0
              This money is the ballast for the next economic crisis - they are our airbag.
          3. Archivist Vasya
            Archivist Vasya 8 November 2018 14: 53
            +1
            But you know, it annoys me that when you come to these retail chains (which filled Moscow instead of normal shops and markets), you have a choice of almost 10 types of white bread, toothpaste and much more ending with TVs and refrigerators (and naturally clothes) . It would be 2-3 - much easier to buy than spending time figuring out and calculating ten options - but what would be better?
            1. Consultant
              Consultant 8 November 2018 15: 34
              +2
              Quote: Archivist Vasya
              But you know, I’m annoying ... pretending and calculating ten options - but what would be better?

              Tho-rye laughing

              1. Bull Terrier
                Bull Terrier 8 November 2018 16: 50
                0
                And there is something)))
            2. Mih1974
              Mih1974 8 November 2018 16: 51
              +4
              I suspect that it is not so much the Choice that irritates you, but the need to search for Food in the Shit ((. And if you had 20 varieties of sausages or bread from Food, it would be easier for you)) - they would take it without fear.
              1. Archivist Vasya
                Archivist Vasya 8 November 2018 17: 46
                0
                Here, to the point, thanks for correctly expressing my thought)
                1. Mih1974
                  Mih1974 8 November 2018 17: 47
                  0
                  Contact me while I'm "alive", I'm not here for long, "they've already left for me" and I'll soon get the "final execution". repeat
          4. doodlez
            doodlez 8 November 2018 17: 52
            +1
            Quote: Muvka
            Do you agree to sell your car, phone, computer and live without all this? And walk in gray or gray. Because one brand of clothing. In the USSR, people essentially only had food. No benefits of civilization. All the money went to what you called.

            Or maybe not to conduct a SCO? In 2020 and save 25ml rubles to start hva tit
        2. KOCMOC
          KOCMOC 8 November 2018 14: 56
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          And why do we need such financing, the benefits of which China will use. And why cannot we find money for this project on our own?

          Because Russia doesn’t need a methane engine or hydrogen nafik, everything that is needed flies and does its job perfectly. But why do not our scientists and costumers earn extra money? And at someone else’s expense, at the expense of the Chinese, do not train your intellect, gain additional experience, and just in case the engine. It is a sin to refuse such an advantageous offer. As they say, and money with us and experience and engine. Nothing personal just biznes. In addition, the Chinese people are stubborn of their billion, with or without you they will achieve theirs, sooner or later.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 8 November 2018 15: 18
            +3
            Quote: KOCMOC
            Quote: Svarog
            And why do we need such financing, the benefits of which China will use. And why cannot we find money for this project on our own?

            Because Russia does not need a methane engine and hydrogen nafik, .....

            Respected! Do you know the word "dilettante"? At least a little sorted out on the topic than to write this. Namely, what are the advantages of methane and especially hydrogen engines over kerosene and heptyl ones. I can tell that these engines have a higher specific impulse, which means they are much more efficient. hi
            1. KOCMOC
              KOCMOC 8 November 2018 15: 35
              -4
              Quote: Proxima
              Respected! Do you know the word "dilettante"?

              Well then, in relation to you, in Roscosmos all the amateurs.
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 November 2018 16: 43
          -4
          Our state has social obligations of 5 trillion rubles every year and no one has canceled anything. "Why, the USSR could, while feeding the whole world, distributing free housing to its citizens" Then the question is - why part of the population still lives in barracks and temporary huts - made in the USSR, some already built in 1934? - With gas supply, the same nonsense, to see the USSR for 70 years did not have enough funds to provide people with all this, or it was not expedient and costly, so they did not carry out this. And now Russia must solve all these problems without fail, in three ways.
          1. Awaz
            Awaz 8 November 2018 18: 49
            0
            After the end of WWII, the USSR lasted only 40 years .. And before the war, not the richest country, but destroyed in 4 years on the most inhabited territory almost to zero, they managed to restore everything on their own and also contained "allies" .. In space, by the way, the USSR began to fly 10-15 years after the most destructive war .. The funny thing is that the technology of space flight has not changed much .. Even the famous Musk flies on the Queen's technologies rather than on what was developed by von Braun and his followers
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 8 November 2018 19: 00
              -1
              Actually, 46 years of the USSR existed after the end of the war.
        4. Voyager
          Voyager 9 November 2018 00: 25
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          Why do we need such funding


          If they do, then it should be so.

          Quote: Svarog
          The USSR could, while feeding the whole world, distributing free housing to its citizens, containing a huge army, etc.

          Could and went broke
        5. gsev
          gsev 9 November 2018 03: 30
          -1
          In the USSR, a student was supposed to go to work after 2 months after graduation. Hundreds of fashion models were not recruited all over the country. And now the novice waiter gets more experienced designer, each businessman contains a mistress. If you go to an international exhibition and look at the Chinese representing their exhibits, you will often see modestly and modestly dressed people. Why not use the labor of an engineer from China, if it is not very expensive. And it also seems to me that if instead of Ragozin we put the Chinese governing order in the space industry, Russia would increase.
      2. Runoway
        Runoway 8 November 2018 15: 54
        +5
        And we have toothpicks with AliExpress and everything else, from a screw to a microcircuit, you will not find needles with a thread, it’s a terrible thing if someday China imposes sanctions
    3. Machito
      Machito 8 November 2018 14: 12
      -5
      In any case, China will finance the development. Space cooperation with China will strengthen the multipolar world of GDP.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 8 November 2018 14: 53
        +8
        China always plays with one goal and it will not be our goal. They launch the goat into the garden .... not a single cabbage will remain, they will not get milk, but the traces of the horns on the sirloin are guaranteed for our "wise men" .... they also bite the moghet!
        1. Machito
          Machito 8 November 2018 14: 58
          0
          We alone will not pull against the USA, we have already passed. Cooperation with China is a necessary step.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 8 November 2018 15: 04
            +6
            We won’t pull, but such cooperation can very much come to us sideways.
            Quote: Bearded
            Cooperation with China is a necessary step.

            It is not our small shade that we can compete with the Chinese, we must keep the mark of what we have.
        2. Amurets
          Amurets 8 November 2018 15: 24
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          China always plays with one goal and it will not be our goal.

          You can agree and disagree, everything will be right, but China will play at the gate that is beneficial to it. Then they will win back the losses,
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 8 November 2018 17: 13
            0
            This is because they know how to play very well for a long time, it may seem that they are playing along with someone else, the end result will be the same, they will give us a prize for cones or fig with butter, to choose from.
            I am not against the Chinese, I have something, I do not believe in our organizers, whatever, and other "wise men"! They are Losers as one, special rams leave the Higher School of Economics, and they rule, and in many places!
            We don’t immediately understand where they are, i.e. we were shod, then it will be too late!
            1. Amurets
              Amurets 8 November 2018 22: 10
              +2
              Quote: rocket757
              I don’t mind the Chinese, I have something, I don’t believe in our organizers, whatever

              Do it right. Pay attention to the market - the Chinese will not bargain immediately for 100%, he will get 1% profit, but he will slowly squeeze a competitor out of the market, but when he conditionally squeezed and ruined, here he is already a monopolist, he will dictate any prices, but you will not leave the market.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 8 November 2018 22: 36
                +2
                The Chinese are slowly, lightly and striped are running out !!!
                I am always amused by the title, in which Trump seems to have pressed \ outplayed the Chinese Ha, ha, and again, ha! They will win this war, even if Trump celebrates some minor victories !!!
                Our there is nothing to catch! Trade YES, but always looking to the west, to the geyropu! The Chinese are not fools, they will understand that we can send the goods not to him !!! This is our only serious argument!
      2. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 8 November 2018 14: 54
        +2
        Bipolar led by China and USA
      3. gsev
        gsev 9 November 2018 03: 42
        0
        The Chinese will think that it is cheaper for them: to finance their development or others. They already do machines, servo drives, programmable controllers, frequency converters, CNCs better than in Russia. Moreover, if this type of product is mastered by the Chinese, Russian manufacturers are not competitors to them. Our government puts obstacles in the cooperation of engineers from China and Russia. It is easier for the Chinese to hire a designer from South Korea, at least in the production of frequency converters. In addition, the Chinese have very high requirements for their employees and business partners. I watched how at the exhibition the Chinese company changed 2 translators in half a day, although each of them, in my opinion, is a talent and a nugget in their profession, for example, a Chinese woman graduated from Moscow State University, a Tajik woman knew at least 4 languages ​​..
    4. Proxima
      Proxima 8 November 2018 14: 59
      -2
      Quote: Svarog
      Well, what will it give us? It’s clear with China that they will take over technology and experience .. Then they will start selling to the whole world, including to us, what we once could do .. In general, China plays with one goal, and ours swallows .. The last, where we still strong, thanks to the Soviet school and science, we are ready to give, as I understand it ..
      Descended from heaven to earth, dear! We have nothing to give to the Chinese request We do not produce methane engines, but about hydrogen engines, I generally keep quiet. Take, for example, the legendary engine of the support block of the Energia rocket - RD-0120. The last engine was produced in 1989. At the moment, the technology for their manufacture has been lost.
      Manufacturing hydrogen engines is a high-tech industry. Being a member of the so-called "hydrogen" club is much more prestigious than, for example, a nuclear club. So, with the help of Chinese money, we will have to reanimate all this practically from scratch. hi
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 8 November 2018 15: 07
        +1
        With the Chinese, and even with our "wise men" we can stay on the steps, they WILL NOT LET ANYONE go to the podium!
        Yes, it is difficult, but not from scratch if you do everything right .... although again the question is for our "wise men" and economists, and this is very sour.
      2. KOCMOC
        KOCMOC 8 November 2018 15: 21
        -3
        Quote: Proxima
        At the moment, their manufacturing technology has been lost.

        How to say, prosralipolymers with pathos? laughing I don’t think that they have been lost; rather, they are simply not needed. The Americans have a lot of show-offs and money, but the shuttle has sunk into oblivion and now they fly into space, only as tourists wassat Ponty, after all, is a very expensive thing, like that with hydrogen. Ah, yes, yes, they also flew to the moon, now Musk promised them Mars, and without hydrogen, they definitely won’t get there lol
      3. gridasov
        gridasov 8 November 2018 23: 06
        0
        This is just talk. There is really no technology for converting water into components, and those that are suitable only for laboratory experiments
    5. Runoway
      Runoway 8 November 2018 15: 38
      +3
      The problem is that our leaders in these decisions live TODAY he can be moved out of office tomorrow and he will miss the opportunity to grab something that will not be interesting for TOMORROW (with the country). We live in the dawn of China in everything, with our inalienable help.
      -Main revenue of the country hydrocarbons returned to prices 08-09, but half the cost of domestic expenses ($ 60, not 30) -super profit
      -for sprats / apples and TP do not spend money-saving
      - the cost of social obligations is much lower
      AND THERE IS NO MONEY AND WILL NEVER BE. It is always necessary to involve China in development (first an airliner, now space), then India, then "Russian Helicopters" to sell shares.
      Everything is there: money, resources, people, but they themselves cannot ....... "riddles of humanity with Oleg Shishkin"
  2. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 8 November 2018 14: 07
    +14
    It strains me this one-sided friendship with China, they began to be friends literally in everything, no matter how sideways happens in the future ....
    1. teron
      teron 8 November 2018 14: 39
      +5
      You are absolutely right, exactly the same alarming feeling.
      1. Machito
        Machito 8 November 2018 14: 59
        +2
        And carelessness never brought to good.
  3. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 8 November 2018 14: 10
    +2
    Isn’t it time to pull up, and compose engines of a completely different type? Not chemical, from which all that is already squeezed out.
    1. himRa
      himRa 8 November 2018 14: 43
      0
      May call to the site of Gridasov? winked wink wassat
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 8 November 2018 23: 13
        0
        You laugh in vain. I have long understood the futility of communicating on these topics with Russians. The last person who was able to somehow meet the requirements of customers for the production of engines for rockets and aircraft turbines was Kozberg. Moreover, he did not see the whole depth of patterns in hydro-gas-dynamic processes. Cool, someone said that there is an ideology and there is a mechanics, but the coolest thing is the ideology of mechanics.
    2. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 8 November 2018 14: 57
      +1
      A true idea, but I’m sure that the government will not allocate funding to such scientists for such projects that will not be 100% paid off in the near future (((and sponsorship is not developed due to the risks of financial instability ...
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 November 2018 17: 29
      -1
      And what are you going to replace the working fluid with - kerosene, hydrogen, oxygen, jet propellants for turbojet engines and chemical mixtures for liquid rocket engines, even in promising NRE and TNRE you need hydrogen to create thrust, ion and plasma engines have scanty thrust, there is one idea, but even in it cannot do without fuel oxygen and hydrogen, this is the creation of a ship capable of overcoming the speed of light with the help of a field of zero gravity - anti-gravitons, the creation of a "space" around the ship, in which the mass of the ship, cargo, fuel and crew will be equal to absolute zero - to the outer space , but the mass of the ship will be saved by default, even in flight the crew and the ship will experience zero G-forces, as if they are at rest, there are no G-forces, there is no inertia - and the ship flies at the speed of light and higher. But this is at least 100 years of scientific research and research in quantum physics, mechanics, energy, biology, materials science - it is incredibly difficult to deceive nature by creating an object whose mass is equal to - pseudo zero.
      1. Sands Careers General
        Sands Careers General 8 November 2018 17: 37
        +1
        And in the 40s, no one could even think that it is possible to put a person into orbit))
        People worked hard, and the dream came true. If such a means. which fall into the military budget of some countries, to spend on space exploration, the expanses of the universe have long been plowed. But no, that’s not interesting. It’s much more interesting to consume.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 November 2018 17: 42
          +1
          Actually, Tsiolkovsky and Konstantin Eduardovich thought about this in the 1890s.
          1. Sands Careers General
            Sands Careers General 8 November 2018 17: 48
            0
            Thinking is one thing and doing is another. If I told anyone in the 40s that people would fly into space en masse in 20 years, I would turn my finger around my temple and call me a dreamer.

            Everything is possible. If you set a goal, and do not spend resources on wars.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 8 November 2018 23: 15
        0
        Nature does not need to deceive it is true. But not everyone was given the feeling of it, much less the laws of the processes.
      3. gridasov
        gridasov 8 November 2018 23: 31
        0
        I will give a small hint that any hydrogen application technology will only be real and effective if it is a step before the technology of unsupported flight or without mass rejection.
  4. Logall
    Logall 8 November 2018 14: 28
    +14
    Everything that the Chinese reach out after they produce independently! These are not Indians ... And our collaborators are happy to try. For the money pr ...
    1. Machito
      Machito 8 November 2018 15: 01
      +1
      Hindus are even worse. Until you teach them how to do it, they won’t buy anything.
  5. LMN
    LMN 8 November 2018 14: 39
    +4
    Russia and China will jointly develop advanced hydrogen and methane rocket engines.
    I don’t understand anything in hydrogen rocket engines, and even more so on methane repeat
    Is it good or bad? winked
    1. himRa
      himRa 8 November 2018 14: 52
      +7
      Quote: LMN
      I don’t understand anything in hydrogen rocket engines, and even more so on methane
      Is it good or bad?

      I explain:
      Hydrogen = water
      Methane ~ methanol = alcohol!
      Alcohol + water = energy, but not immediately, immediately the head hurts a lot! drinks
      1. LMN
        LMN 8 November 2018 14: 56
        +4
        Quote: himRa
        Quote: LMN
        I don’t understand anything in hydrogen rocket engines, and even more so on methane
        Is it good or bad?

        I explain:
        Hydrogen = water
        Methane ~ methanol = alcohol!
        Alcohol + water = energy, but not immediately, immediately the head hurts a lot! drinks

        laughing
        Well, then for cooperation lol
        drinks
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 8 November 2018 15: 39
          +1
          Quote: LMN
          Methane ~ methanol = alcohol!
          Alcohol + water = energy, but not immediately, immediately
          spit it out right away, but rather don't try the scary poison. From WIKI: Toxicity
          Hazard T.svg

          Methanol is the most dangerous poison, ingestion of about 10 ml of methanol can lead to severe poisoning (one of the consequences is blindness) [14], ingestion of more than 80-150 milliliters of methanol (1-2 milliliters of pure methanol per kilogram of body [15]) usually fatal [16]. LD50 for animals - from units to ten g / kg [17]. The toxic effect of methanol develops over several hours, and effective antidotes can reduce the damage done [14]. Life threatening is not only pure methanol, but also liquids containing this poison, even in a relatively small amount.
          1. himRa
            himRa 8 November 2018 15: 59
            +1
            Quote: Amurets
            Methanol is a dangerous poison, ingestion of about 10 ml of methanol can lead to severe poisoning (

            As I was fortunate that I did not go wild in the late 80s and 90s .....
            But for you personally and on my own personal experience, I can say when methyl is added to ethyl alcohol (in order to reduce the cost of) nothing to worry about!
            Well ... I am in the know about fuel for auto-methanol ... but thanks anyway for warning wink
          2. Irokez
            Irokez 8 November 2018 16: 09
            +2
            Quote: Amurets
            effective antidotes can reduce harm

            In such cases, Ethanol is effective, which to some extent neutralizes the action of Methyl alcohol. Moreover, ethyl dilutes it and absorption into the body is not so fast, which contributes to better utilization of the body in time and less taxicosis, respectively, and saves life from an excessive dose.
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 8 November 2018 14: 55
      +7
      "Russia will sell to China the development of advanced jet engines running on hydrogen and methane"
      Here is the correct title winked
      1. LMN
        LMN 8 November 2018 15: 07
        +1
        Quote: BlackMokona
        "Russia will sell to China the development of advanced jet engines running on hydrogen and methane"
        Here is the correct title winked

        I am not sure if this is bad. what
        If we ourselves are not able to invest in science ... let others invest! If so, then our brains .. and they won’t go anywhere yes Of course, I would like to ... a lot of things. But on the lack of fish, and cancer the fish wink
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 8 November 2018 15: 23
          +1
          It’s just not to discover Chinese troops in Siberia.
          1. LMN
            LMN 8 November 2018 15: 48
            +2
            Quote: BlackMokona
            It’s just not to discover Chinese troops in Siberia.

            Are you seriously?
            IMHO, nowadays, one should rather expect from the USA (through someone) than from China.
            Of course, everyone praises China, and there are reasons for this, but so far they, as a "great power", have not done anything! Yes, they rivet all kinds of weapon "novelties" and real samples at a crazy pace, but the very fact that they are still "hiding" under our wing , and they call us a "nation of warriors" says that in our lifetime they will not be in Siberia No.

            I would be more afraid of "migrants from Europe" what They will soon devour Europe and climb to us ...
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 8 November 2018 19: 42
              0
              Is it hiding loudly and directly giving up the union and breaking our hands with the prices of our exports?
              Or maybe when directly and arrogantly throwing us in weapons contracts?
              1. LMN
                LMN 8 November 2018 19: 56
                +2
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Is it hiding loudly and directly giving up the union and breaking our hands with the prices of our exports?
                Or maybe when directly and arrogantly throwing us in weapons contracts?

                Where and when did they throw us? request
                I've heard rocket engines together we will develop, on methane and hydrogen .. what
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 8 November 2018 22: 40
                  0
                  For example, when we ordered a large batch of our airplanes, after the first deliveries, we began to issue their non-licensed copy and immediately broke the contract.
                  Here, just a lot of people suggested, let’s sell a bunch of big ones so as not to sell those cheaply, but China, if you need to see a couple, he will buy a couple and with a contract he’ll go to the toilet
                  1. LMN
                    LMN 8 November 2018 23: 33
                    +2
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    For example, when we ordered a large batch of our airplanes, after the first deliveries, we began to issue their non-licensed copy and immediately broke the contract.
                    Here, just a lot of people suggested, let’s sell a bunch of big ones so as not to sell those cheaply, but China, if you need to see a couple, he will buy a couple and with a contract he’ll go to the toilet

                    I think that what we sell to them is no longer relevant for us .. winked
  6. betta
    betta 8 November 2018 14: 44
    +6
    As I understand it, our problems are not so much in money as in scientific potential (more precisely, personnel), there are simply few of them. Specialists cannot work more than their physical capabilities. And then there's "effective managers". For some reason I remembered Beria's kind words.
    1. LMN
      LMN 8 November 2018 15: 56
      +3
      Quote: betta
      As I understand it, our problems are not so much in money, but in scientific potential (more precisely, personnel), ...

      Where are such conclusions from? request
      hi
      1. betta
        betta 9 November 2018 14: 36
        0
        Comparing the potential of the USSR and the Russian Federation. There were more institutes, factories, this has long been known. How successfully breaking up education is also known. For example, 1000 tons of specialists are needed per tonne of cosmic good. To create an additional ton, you will have to find additional specialists, but where to get them? There is some dependence on the number of specialists - units (tons) of products. From the level of technological development, it is of course different. However, there are many variables.
  7. Waldemar
    Waldemar 8 November 2018 15: 14
    0
    The title must be different.
  8. Lesorub
    Lesorub 8 November 2018 16: 30
    +1
    Russia and China will be engaged in joint development of rocket engines

    "Brains" are our production Chinese - only who will benefit from this as a result - the answer is obvious! )
  9. gorenina91
    gorenina91 8 November 2018 17: 02
    0
    - The most disgusting endless situation ... -That Russia gives to China ... -it is given forever and irrevocably ... -and is not comparable with some random kalym ... and hackwork for some random temporary pathetic money. ..
    -Oh .., and the Russian descendants of today’s generation will be cursed ...- Oh .. how they’ll curse ...- And then they’ll add to the graves of aspen stakes ... -If of course ... they themselves will survive ...
  10. 1536
    1536 8 November 2018 17: 07
    0
    Well, there is hope that after such cooperation, the Americans will finally make the engine of the "dream" and humanity will take a big step in the exploration of Space. We work for the benefit of civilization. There remains a ghostly hope that our young people still do not want to see themselves in second or third roles in the exploration of Space, or as space "taxi drivers".
    By the way, they say that geniuses in Russia are born every 100 years. Consequently, around 2006-2007, a new space explorer similar to S.P. was to be born. The queen
  11. Expert M
    Expert M 8 November 2018 17: 25
    0
    Although howl will rise here and here in the world .. But for Russia this is a way out! Our technologies, their money and efficiency. Although China is "on his own mind" but Russians are respected there unambiguously. And you need to use this, but only on mutually beneficial terms! Maybe we will create a joint orbital station, but you never know the projects in our "tables gathering dust" .. The same "Buran" I think is relevant, but expensive.
    Oh, how the West is robbing and humiliating us, I think there will not be such problems with the Chinese .. God forbid!
  12. Naughty
    Naughty 8 November 2018 18: 59
    +2
    With chinasias in such matters, one should be careful
  13. Old26
    Old26 9 November 2018 01: 22
    0
    Quote: KOCMOC
    I don’t think that they have been lost; rather, they are simply not needed.

    Sorry, dear, but you froze stupidity. Hydrogen is much more effective than oxygen-kerosene. But we really lost the production technology of the hydrogen that is used in engines. In addition, our industry is not building such engines for 30. Technologies have been lost. Need to restore on a new

    Quote: KOCMOC
    The Americans have a lot of show-offs and money, but the shuttle has sunk into oblivion and now they fly into space, only as tourists wassat

    Before sinking into oblivion, their shuttles made 135 flights. Ours is one. Now they really fly on our ships. But this is a temporary phenomenon. A year or two will pass and they will fly on their own (and they have several on the way). Our "Federation" has been postponed by EMNIP until 2023 ...

    Quote: KOCMOC
    Ponty, after all, is a very expensive thing, like that with hydrogen.

    That's just they do not have hydrogen atoms, like methane. The engine (methane) BE-4 has already been tested. And we are just starting. And the high specific impulse of such engines is not a show off, these are undoubted advantages
  14. Larum
    Larum 9 November 2018 09: 54
    -1
    So the Chinese caught up with us in technology ....
    Rejoice and say thanks to Rogozin and K
  15. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 10 November 2018 08: 37
    0
    Quote: Svarog
    Quote: Voyager
    Quote: Svarog
    Well, what will it give us?

    Financing. Your cap hi

    And why do we need such financing, the benefits of which China will use. And why can not we find money for this project on our own? Why, the USSR could, while feeding the whole world, distributing free housing to its citizens, containing a huge army, etc. And today's Russia cannot, despite the fact that the state has practically thrown off all social obligations and taxed itself
    I can’t help my citizens ... Where is the money Zin?

    Under socialism, nothing was free. The state underpaid 2/3 of the salary, taking this money to public consumption funds. And of these, housing construction has already been financed. A person paid the cost of an apartment somewhere in 10 years, without even knowing about it. We now alone cannot pull the cosmos with such a device of the state ...