Russian Navy. Sad look into the future. Marines

258
This article is devoted to the current state of the Russian Marine Corps. Honestly, the author pondered for a long time whether it was worth undertaking because, alas, he did not seriously study the development of this kind of troops of the Russian Navy. However, considering the state of the Russian naval fleet, it is absolutely impossible to lose sight of such an important component of it, which is our marines.

We will not consider in detail history the emergence of this kind of troops in our Fatherland, we note only that the marines in one form or another periodically created, then abolished back. Peter I introduced it on a constant basis - today there are polar points of view on the role of this sovereign in Russian history, but there can be no dual opinions about the usefulness of organizing marines as a separate branch of troops. For "cutting through the window to Europe" by conquering outlets to the Baltic Sea and securing its positions on the Black Sea coast, the marines, of course, was absolutely necessary.

Then, at the beginning of the 19 century (in anticipation of the invasion of Napoleon), the marines were abolished. Not that the Russian Imperial Navy considered the actions on land to be unnecessary and no longer characteristic of the fleet, but it was believed that the crew members of warships armed on land could cope with it, and if their forces were not enough, then the Cossacks or ordinary infantry. Of course, such an approach cannot be considered as something sensible. A sailor, even an ordinary sailor, requires quite a long and serious preparation for service on a ship where, in general, land combat skills are not needed. Accordingly, its use in land operations can be justified unless in some exceptional, atypical cases, but not on a permanent basis. As for the Cossacks, they, of course, did a lot of things on land as scouts, but they did not know the sea specifics.

Understanding that something was going wrong came only at the beginning of the twentieth century, when they tried to revive the marines in 1911. Several battalions were created, but still it didn’t work out and it can be said that the USSR did not inherit this branch, but had to create it independently and, in general, from scratch. In fact, the birth of the Marine Corps in the USSR took place during the Great Patriotic War, where it covered itself with unfading glory.

Russian Navy. Sad look into the future. Marines


However, after the war, before the 1956 g, all marines were gradually disbanded. It was only in 1963 that the revival began - the 336 th guards motorized rifle regiment of the 120 th guards motorized rifle division was reorganized into the 336 th guards separate marine regiment of the Baltic Fleet.

Probably, we can say that it was then that the view on the marine corps was finally formed, as on the troops with special training and specialized amphibious landing equipment, while the military equipment was to a certain extent standardized with the land, and with the one that was used aerially -landing troops. The brigade was considered the main formation of the Marine Corps, there were three of them in the USSR - in the Baltic, Black Sea and Northern Fleets, but the Pacific Fleet was equipped with a division. The states of the brigades could vary significantly, on average, with 2 men, they were in service with up to 000 tanks T-55, 160-265 armored personnel carriers, 18 122-mm self-propelled self-propelled guns Gvozdika, 24 self-propelled mortar and artillery mounts Nona-S and, of course, 18 Grad MLRS systems. As for the small arms, as far as the author could figure it out, it did not differ too much from what was laid down in the state by ordinary motorized rifles.

The Marines took direct part in the combat services of the Soviet Navy. For the Marines, it looked like this: amphibious ships were sent to the same Mediterranean Sea with the Marines unit and, of course, their equipment, which was put in place by the state. There they were in constant readiness to disembark on someone’s coast.

I must say that the Soviet marines have never been analogous to the American. The United States Marine Corps (USMC), in fact, is an expeditionary force of more than 180 thousand people. able to independently conduct major military operations outside the United States. Hence the divisional structure of the USMC, the presence in its composition of its own wing, etc. At the same time, the Soviet marines had more local tasks, such as:

1. the landing of tactical amphibious assault forces to solve independent tasks and to assist ground forces formations;

2. use as a first echelon of the assault force during the landing of operational assault forces;

3. defense of basing points and other objects from airborne and naval assault forces, joint participation with ground units in antiamphibious defense.

Accordingly, the number of Soviet marines was, according to some data, no more than 17 000 people. as of 1988. Without a doubt, the marines in both the USSR and the USA was an elite branch of the military, but, comparing their numbers, one should not think that the USSR treated such troops with disdain. It’s just that within the framework of the concept of a global nuclear-missile war, for which Soviet military leaders were preparing, the airborne troops played an extremely important role, and it was on them that they relied - 1991 divisions and 7 individual brigades were assigned to the 11 of the Airborne Forces. The Americans Airborne were practically underdeveloped (one division).

After the collapse of the Union, almost all parts of the marines were on the territory of the Russian Federation. Unfortunately, even the elite status of one of the most combat-ready troops of the Russian Federation did not save them from various kinds of “optimizations”. Although ... the first, rather dubious organizational event for the marines was taken back in the USSR in 1989 - the formation of the Navy Coastal troops. On the one hand, it seemed logical to withdraw all forces involved in the defense of the coast, that is, the RAV and the Marines (we will talk about additional reinforcement later) under a single command, but on the other, according to some sources, led to the marines offshore rocket and artillery troops, which, in general, did not understand very well the specifics and needs of the marines. It is believed that the first problems in equipping the Marines began precisely after their inclusion in the Coastal Forces.

And then came the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE), signed on November 19 1990, according to which the USSR, which remained for a little more than a year, had to (together with other ATS countries and NATO) significantly reduce the number of conventional weapons. In fact, the 1990 20 tanks and 694 29 armored vehicles (BBMs), 348 13 mm artillery systems 828 mm and more were deployed on the territory from our western borders to the Ural Mountains, the Ural River and the Caspian Sea on the territory from our western borders. According to the CFE Treaty, it had to be reduced to 100 13 tanks, 150 20 BBM and 000 13 artillery units. But ... as we have said, it was a quota for the USSR, and it soon collapsed - as a result of this, the total number of weapons was divided between the newly formed states. The share of the Russian Federation went to 175 6 tanks, 400 11 armored vehicles, 480 6 artillery systems. In general, it was necessary to decline ...

It would seem that if a country is forced, for whatever reason, to abandon a part of its armed forces, then the least professional and weakest military connections should be cut first. After all, it is obvious that in this case the overall combat effectiveness of the armed forces, although it will decrease, is not at all proportional to the reduction of its strength. But no - we in Russia, as we know, are not looking for easy ways. In an effort to fulfill the provisions of the CFE Treaty, we undertook to cut off the equipment of the marines - one of the most combat-ready families of our armed forces. We managed to transplant part of the MP battalions from armored personnel carriers to MTLB and ... GAZ-66 vehicles. At the same time, they also carefully cut down the mounts for mounting machine guns with MTLB, so that, God forbid, nobody took them for an armored fighting vehicle ...

The tanks were taken from the marines. Apparently, guided by the principle: "Guys and so can, with their bare hands, an Abrams cannon tie the cannon to the Abrams, why do they need tanks of some kind?" The author of this article, unfortunately, no longer remembers and could not find what the responsible persons were saying about this, but such an "rationale" figured on the Internet - they say, a tank, this is a very hard thing, it does not know how to swim independently, respectively , can be unloaded on the coast only from the ramp of the landing ship. And the areas where this amphibious assault ship can approach the coast are not so many, so it turns out that the marines do not need a classic tank, but a floating combat vehicle, maybe something like a self-propelled anti-tank cannon 2C25 “Sprut”.



What can be said about this?

The first thing to be understood is that a tank is by far the most powerful and best protected land combat vehicle. He is not some kind of invincible vundervaffe, of course, and it can be destroyed, but at the same time, in battle, the side that has tanks will have an indisputable advantage over the one that does not have. In general, everything is in full accordance with the famous lines of Heeler Bellock (often mistakenly attributed to R. Kipling):

Each question has a clear answer:

We have “maxims”, they don't have it.


That is, the presence of tanks gives the Marines tremendous advantages, and even if the tanks can be used not in all landings, but only in part of them, this is more than enough reason to leave them as part of the Marine Corps.

Secondly, in fact, the fleet has the means, although there are not as many of them as we would like, with the help of which heavy armored vehicles can be landed, even where the displacement tank landing ship will not be able to approach the coast. For example - "Bison"



This small landing ship "in one sitting" can transport three main battle tanks.

Third. For some reason, those who are campaigning for "only floating equipment" for the marines, forget that the amphibious assault is an important but far from the only task of the marines. And that the marines must not only disembark, but also participate in anti-amphibious defense, as well as protect important naval and other coastal objects of the country, and for these tasks, of course, there are no restrictions on the use of tanks and is not foreseen.

And finally, the fourth. For example, for all the previous points, the author is completely wrong and, in fact, classic tanks are not needed by the Marines, but are needed ... but the same "Sprut", for example. Well, where are they, let me ask? After all, it is absolutely obvious that in this case it would make sense to remove the tanks from the Marines' armament only when lighter combat vehicles begin to flow to them. That is, in this case, it was necessary not to reduce tank units within the MP, but to re-equip them with new equipment. Everything is as usual with us: the tanks were taken away, but they did not give anything in return.

In the period of the wild 90's 2000-s and the beginning of the XNUMX-s, which is not much different from them, the marines appeared to be in the “stepsons” of the fleet, which included in the fleet and which chronically did not receive at least a quarter of the funds that he needed normal combat training, not to mention the procurement of weapons. That is, for the leadership of the Navy, obviously, the priority turned out to be ships, not marines, and, probably, our admirals cannot be blamed for this. Still, the fleet is part of the triad of our strategic nuclear forces, and ensuring the action of the SSBN is still a top priority. To the credit of the marines, one can only say that, despite the obvious lack of funding, they showed themselves excellently in the battles in Chechnya.



But then it seemed to be easier, money was found, and, on the threshold of re-equipment of the army and navy, the marines, which had just confirmed their high professionalism, could finally breathe a sigh and get ready for the best. But no - the "crazy hands" of Mr. Serdyukov, who miraculously became Minister of Defense, reached the Pacific Ocean itself. In his indestructible desire to optimize everything that is possible, and what cannot be - doubly optimize, he managed to disband our only Marine Division 55, reducing its staff and turning it into 155-th separate Marine Corps.

Just think for a second. Far East. Billionth China at hand. Japan, with which our peace treaty has not yet been signed. USA, whose AUG and other fleet forces in Japanese bases are at home. And we, who, even during the Soviet times, had ground forces in the Far East, frankly, did not hit the imagination with their numbers, and even during the years of the Russian Federation, they were reduced to regrettably small values. But the 55 Division of the Marine Corps is still with us. Although heavily battered, dashing between times, but still elite, which confirmed its high fighting qualities in the Chechen wars. And what are we doing? Restoring its combat capability? Will we use her frames, which have gained invaluable combat experience, to form new units? No, we are reducing it to the size of a brigade ... Well, we decided then that we did not need divisions, that the brigade structure of the armed forces was our everything. But who prevented turning the 55-nd division into at least two brigades, and not into one?

And this is against the background of the experience just gained at a high price. Still fresh was the memory of how the Marines "pushed" in terms of funding and equipment to the background, they say, the specific kind of troops, not to fat, and all that. And then, when the trouble came - the first Chechen one - who had to be sent into battle? It would seem that just in their own skin they could see how important the highly professional, well-trained troops were, and that they might well have to be sent into battle not at all there and not in the way that was originally planned.

Of course, we must be fair, something useful for Serdyukov was nevertheless done. For example, in 2008, the 810 regiment of the marine corps (the Black Sea Fleet) was again reformed into a brigade (which it was before 1998). This is certainly a good and necessary thing, but why was it necessary to simultaneously dismantle the Marine Corps brigade of the Caspian Flotilla, leaving two battalions from it ?!

Well, today ... Today, I want to believe, the worst for our marines is over. Numerically, it includes five brigades, one each in the Northern, Black Sea and Baltic fleets and two brigades in the Pacific Fleet, in addition, there are other, separate units, from the battalion and below. The total number of Russian marines is unknown, presumably it is of the order of 12 000 people.

At the beginning of 2018, finally, common sense prevailed as regards equipping marines with tanks — the Ministry of Defense announced the inclusion of a tank battalion in each brigade. This decision was made according to the results of the experiment - in December, a crew of a marine company received a tank company from 2017 in Kamchatka. As a result of the exercise, it became quite obvious that with the tanks, the capabilities of the marines increased significantly (who would doubt ...).

Marines received new equipment. This and new BTR 82A



According to some reports, as of 2017, the Marines received 600 of such armored personnel carriers. Almost all of the personnel received equipment "Warrior", while the difference from the military kit is that for the Marines, it is equipped with a floating (!!) body armor "Corsair"



Not forgotten and means of communication and control. So, for example, the complex of tactical level of reconnaissance, control and communications (KRUS) "Strelets" was entered into service with the Marine Corps. It consists of the commander’s personal computer, satellite communications radio station, VHF radio, distance meter-goniometer, Fara-BP portable short-range radar, unified data transmission equipment, an individual and group navigation system capable of operating in GLONASS and GPS .

The commander, whose connection is equipped with the “Sagittarius” at any moment knows where his fighters are, and for any of them in order to mark the enemy equipment (automatically falling on the commander’s tablet), “two clicks” of the finger are enough. "Sagittarius" identifies detected objects, checks them for "friend or foe", calculates their coordinates and movement parameters (if the target is moving), and also gives target designation for any means of destruction, starting from the receiver artillery, both land and ship, and ending with tactical aircraft aviation and Caliber and Onyx cruise missiles. "Sagittarius" is universal because it is capable of interfacing with all domestic reconnaissance equipment, radar, sights, UAVs, etc.

In general, the Sagittarius KRUS is a network-centric control unit of a battalion-tactical group with any soapy amplification tools that the latter can receive. At the same time, the creators of the Sagittarius did not forget about ergonomics either - if the first products had a mass over 5 kg and interfered in overcoming the obstacle course, then modern, modernized individual complexes have a mass 2,4 kg and their operation in the military (and the KRUS was adopted in 2007 g and since then is constantly being improved) did not reveal any significant complaints.



But, of course, one should not think that all the problems of military equipment of the Marine Corps have been solved. In fact, in terms of equipping with military equipment, the marines turned out to be approximately in the same position as the rest of the ground forces - it seems to be supplies and they go, but ... very often it turns out that the new military equipment is “better than nothing, but many worse than what is actually required. "

Here, for example, the same BTR-82A. Yes, this is a new technique, but in fact it is nothing more than a modernized BTR-80, the serial production of which began in 1984. And no upgrades are able to fix the extreme vulnerability of the design of this BTR to the effects of virtually any means of destruction and mines. About "Boomerangs", alas, while you can only dream. Or, for example, the decision to equip brigades of marines with tanks. He can only be welcomed, yes, but not the newest modifications of the T-90 will come into service with the MP (we are already silent about the “Armata”, although it would seem, where else can you run in the newest and most sophisticated armored vehicles, like in elite troops?) just the “modern” T-72B3 and T-80BV, the latter will go into service with brigades operating in low temperatures (Northern Fleet, Kamchatka).



As we said earlier, in the USSR, the Nona-S self-propelled mortar and artillery mounts were in service with the Marines. Today, their place, in theory, would have to take the 2C31 "Vienna", an 120-mm self-propelled self-propelled gun based on the BMP-3, but ... so far only the installation batch of such vehicles has entered service. And about the BMP-3 themselves ... The author does not in any way position himself as an expert on armored vehicles, and heard a lot of critical reviews about this car, but in any case, it should be assumed that the BMP-3 is much better and more capable than the BMP-2 , which to this day is in service with the Marine Corps. As for the BMP-3, then it, if it came into service with the MP, then in small quantities.

Now let's see how things are with the main means of delivery of the Marine Corps to the battlefield: amphibious ships and boats.

Large landing ships

BDK project 11711 ("Ivan Gren") - 1 units.



Displacement - 5 000 tons, speed - 18 knots, range - 3 500 miles, weapons - 2 * AK-630М, 1 * AK-630М-2 "Duet", two helicopters. Airborne capability - 13 main battle tanks weighing up to 60 t, or up to 36 airborne / BMP and 300 paratroopers.

The only newest BDK of the Russian Navy, well-known long-term construction, was laid in 2004, but was adopted by the fleet only 20 June 2018, that is, actually 14 years later. The assault landing is supposed to take place through the ramp, but, unlike the previous types of BDK, the “Ivan Gren” is capable of doing it in a “non-contact” way. The fact is that the landing through the ramp requires a coast slope of not less than 3-5 degrees, otherwise the technique can only be planted by swimming. So, the new method involves the use of specialized engineering pontoons, similar to those used by the ground forces for transporting military equipment - they become a link between the coast and the ramp of "Ivan Gren". Thus, the requirements for the coast slope disappear, and the BDK itself does not necessarily have to go directly to the coastline. It also draws attention to the fact that with a larger displacement than the BNC of the 1171 project, the “Ivan Gren” has a somewhat lower airborne capability, but it should be borne in mind that helicopters are based on the “Green”, and, besides, much more attention is paid to the comfort of the crew and landing.

BDK project 1171 - 4 units.



Displacement - 3 400 t (normal), travel speed - 17 knots, range - 4 800 miles to 16 knots, armament - 1 * 57-mm ZIF-31B, 2 * 25-mm 2-3MXMXMXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYYYY -2 "Grad-M", MANPADS "Strela". Landing capacity - up to 215 units of armored vehicles (50 tank or 22 BTR), as well as 50 paratroopers (on the "Vilkovo" and "Filchenkovo" - up to 313 people.).

The history of the creation of this type of warships is not quite common. The fact is that simultaneously with the order of the Navy BDK project with a nasal ramp, the Ministry of the Navy ordered the development of a civilian bulk carrier of similar dimensions and characteristics, which, in the event of war, could be used as a warship. As a result, the ships tried to unify, so the BN of the 1171 project was a compromise between a civilian and a warship. Alas, nothing sensible came of it - meeting the demands of the military led to the fact that civilian traffic on such a ship became unprofitable. As a result, the Ministry of the Navy was forced to abandon this ship, and thus did not receive the cargo ship they needed, and the military received a ship that was not as good as it could be if it were not for an attempt to unify it with a civilian ship.

BDK of this type entered into service in 1966-1975. and today, obviously, serve the last days.

BDK project 775 - 15 units.



In fact, we are talking about the ships of the three “subprojects” - 775 (3 units), 775 / II (9 units) and 775 / III (3 units). All of them were built on Polish shipyards, in the framework of cooperation of the ATS countries. But their main characteristics are quite similar, so we allowed ourselves to combine them into one type.

Displacement - 2 900 T standard, speed - 17,5 knots. range - 3 500 miles on 16 knots, armament - 2 * AK-725 (or 1 * 76-mm Ak-176 on 775 / III), 2 * 30-mm AK-630М (only on project 775 / III) , 2 installation of the MLRS "Grad-M", 2 MANPADS "Strela" or "Needle". Airborne capability - up to 13 medium tanks or 20 BTR, as well as 150 paratroopers.

Interestingly, 2 ships of this type took part in the fighting for their intended purpose: during the war 08.08.08, the Black Sea Yamal and Saratov, under the guise of the Suzdalets MPC, landed troops in the Georgian port of Poti.

All BDKs of this type are quite “adults” - three ships of the 775 subtype entered service in 1976-1978, nine 775 / II - in 1981-1988. and only three ships 775 / III are relatively young - joined the fleet in 1990-1991.

To date, it is the BDK of this type that is the backbone of the amphibious assault ships of the Russian Navy. But I would like to note that all ships of this class have demonstrated their extraordinary usefulness in the daily service of the fleet. BDK, in addition to its main function, turned out to be quite capable of performing the role of naval supply transport, and in this aspect they became indispensable, for example, for supplying domestic forces fighting in Syria.

Small landing ships and boats

MDK of the 1232.2 project ("Bison") - 2 units.



Displacement 555 tons, speed - 63 node, range - 300 miles full speed. Armament - 2 * 30-mm AK-630М, 2 launchers NURS MS-227 “Fire”, 4 PU ZRK “Igla”. Landing capacity - 3 tank, 10 armored personnel carriers, up to 140 paratroopers. In case of refusal to transport vehicles, the number of paratroopers may be increased to 500 people.

This type of ships causes very contradictory feelings. On the one hand, it is the world's largest hovercraft, and its ability to travel at speeds in excess of 116 km / h and the ability to "go" to the coast provides tremendous tactical capabilities. On the other hand, such equipment is rather expensive and, what is more important, fragile - the Bison case is made of aluminum alloy. Accordingly, such a ship has minimal combat stability — some serious combat damage, and even at speeds above 100 km / h can lead to the death of the entire crew and landing force. Airborne forces, on the other hand, are not less at risk during landing.

In general, such ships are unlikely to ever become the main landing craft of any fleet of the world, but they certainly have their own tactical niche.

Ships entered service in 1990 and 1991 g, respectively.

FDA of the 21820 project (“Dugong”) - 5 units.



Displacement (full) 280 tons, speed up to 35 knots (with wave height up to 0,75 m), range of travel - 500 miles, armament - 2 * 14,5-mm machine gun. Airborne capability - 2 tank or 4 BMP / BTR or up to 90 paratroopers.

Modern ships that use the principle of an air cavern when moving, which is to create an artificial air layer with excess pressure under the bottom of the boat. Entered 2010-2015

DKA of the 11770 project (“Serna”) - 12 units.



Displacement (full) 105 t., Speed ​​to 30 nodes, range - 600 miles, armament - no. Airborne capability - 1 tank or 2 BMP / BTR or up to 90 paratroopers.

Modern members of their class, in motion, as well as the Dugongs, use the principle of the air cavern. Coming into operation in the period from 1994 to 2010.

DKA of the 1176 project ("Shark") - 13 unit.



Displacement (full) - up to 107,3 t, speed 11,5 knots., Range of 330 miles, weapons - no. Airborne capability - 1 tank or 1 BMP / BTR or up to 50 paratroopers.

These boats were commissioned in the USSR and the Russian Federation in the period from 1971 to 2009. They were supposed to be used both independently and as landing craft of large landing ships of the 1174 “Rhino” project and unrealized project of the universal landing ship of the 11780 project, also known as “Ivan Tarava” (received a nickname for its similarity to the American ship of similar purpose).

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258 comments
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  1. -100
    5 November 2018 06: 00
    The author is a typical proverb ... There are few of them, but they are. They are needed to see who is crying and who is not.
    1. -92
      5 November 2018 06: 10
      Judging by such long conclusions, one would think that the author is content with pro-Western liberals.
      1. +100
        5 November 2018 06: 32
        The author only showed the real state of affairs. Everything about the case, without "rose-colored glasses" and without "everything is gone."
        1. +37
          5 November 2018 10: 21
          Quote: Pillau
          The author only showed the real state of affairs. Everything about the case, without "rose-colored glasses" and without "everything is gone."

          I can’t say for the marines, but the author is rather too optimistic about the fleet.
          Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
          At the expense of the US Marines, they cannot be compared with us. They failed all operations. Remember Somalia, where they were dragged along the streets of the city on a leash.

          1. Indeed, it is impossible. The author writes about this.
          2. In Somalia, the 93rd ILC was absent. There were special forces of the army and mountain shooters.
          3. "Theirs" are the deceased Delta fighter (this is what hit CNN) and the captured helicopter pilot, M. Durant. The last one was pulled out by the partners after 2 weeks.
          4. When the partners act correctly, then they get target shooting, as in February of this year. In 93, an extremely rare event occurred - the partners screwed up and were forced to accept a battle on the ground, against superior forces, without aircraft and heavy weapons. The American soldiers, who, with diapers and cocoa, are regulars of game parades, have shown what they are worth.
          The ratio of forces is 1:20, the loss ratio is from 1:10 to 1: 100.

          It was a glorious day for the SPN fighters. Tragic, but glorious.
          1. +2
            7 November 2018 12: 53
            When the partners act correctly, then they get target shooting, as in February this year. In 93, an extremely rare event occurred - the partners screwed up and were forced to accept a battle on the ground, against superior forces, without aircraft and heavy weapons. The American soldiers, who, with diapers and a cocoa, are regulars of game parades, have shown what they are worth.

            Firstly, it’s not an extremely rare, but rather ordinary phenomenon for the American army.
            secondly, I don’t know who you call partners, but the planning of the operation itself and all subsequent actions was just the same "through f ...." Hence the result.
            thirdly, the "superior forces" were 90% not even the militia (at least knowing which side of the AK the barrel, and which butt), but simply a motley crowd, armed with anything and with appropriate behavior. So "shoot" 1: 100 is of course the result, but not too much ...
            1. 0
              7 November 2018 15: 06
              Quote: Soho
              but planning the operation itself and all subsequent actions was right

              Here you are right. It was a glorious day for the fighters, but not for the gene. Harrison.
              Quote: Soho
              but simply a motley crowd armed with anything and with appropriate behavior

              Are you talking about Aydid guys? Probably this is precisely what he was taught at the Frunze Academy. By the way, Dudaev and Maskhadov did not study there, one was a pilot, the second was an artilleryman.

              It remains only to understand where he took people who do not distinguish the barrel from the stock for the fifth or that year of the civil war.
              1. -1
                7 November 2018 19: 39
                What does Dudaev and Maskhadov have to do with the situation with American racers in Mogadishu? Can we drag Pugachev and Ilona Mask there? They also have nothing to do with this?)
                The fighters of Aidid were definitely there. But most of all the same were local self-defenders and simply glut oneself charm barmalei. From which the warriors are like a shit clapper
                1. +1
                  8 November 2018 06: 32
                  Quote: Soho
                  What does Dudaev and Maskhadov

                  Well, you need to fit into the context. Don't like Czechs? Afghans fit?
                  Quote: Soho
                  Can we drag Pugachev and Ilona Mask there?

                  Do they know how to fight in the street?
                  Quote: Soho
                  But most still

                  Did you consider it yourself?
                  Quote: Soho
                  local self-defense

                  Warriors. The warriors just like to climb American machine guns, block special forces in the city.
                  Quote: Soho
                  From which the warriors are like a shit clapper

                  You greatly underestimate people. In the fifth year of the civil war, even you learn to shoot. If you survive, of course.
                  1. +1
                    8 November 2018 06: 48
                    You greatly underestimate people. In the fifth year of the civil war, even you learn to shoot. If you survive, of course.

                    learned in the 4th month and lived.
                    only you contradict yourself. On the one hand, you represent Somalis as experienced warriors, and on the other hand write about a loss ratio of 1: 100. Where does your adequacy fail. Believe me, killing 100 people alone in conditions of fire interaction (even if the enemy does not have tactical training and experience of the database) is a fantastic task. From the category of patriotic films. And if they are (judging by your words) experienced fighters, then the ratio of 1: 100 goes from fiction to a fairy tale.
                    I know firsthand the effectiveness of the operation when a group of 15 fighters eliminated 57 spirits. But firstly, it was a prepared ambush. Secondly, there was a choice of location, sectors of fire, preliminary mining, etc. And here you are trying to tell me that the commandos rushing around the city under enemy fire, who do not have a single tactical advantage, just had a record shot at the soul
                    1. 0
                      8 November 2018 07: 09
                      Quote: Soho
                      learned in the 4th month and lived.

                      Useful experience. It can be useful.
                      Quote: Soho
                      On the one hand, you represent Somalis as experienced warriors,

                      The experience of a showdown with shooting is not equal to the experience of the DB against regulars, especially against special forces. However, representing Alla Pugacheva’s ididites with a gun is not worth it.
                      Quote: Soho
                      Are you trying to tell me

                      Do you want me to conduct a tactical analysis of this operation? I am incompetent in this. And there is so much information on it.
                      Quote: Soho
                      not having a single tactical advantage

                      They had a number of advantages. This is fairly obvious from the results. I don’t want to list, because a serious conversation requires special knowledge. I do not have them.
                      1. +1
                        8 November 2018 08: 11
                        Useful experience. It can be useful.

                        I'm over 50 years old. Where will it be useful to me? To "shoot" my neighbor in the country with a shovel because his dog trampled my beds? laughing
                        Do you want me to conduct a tactical analysis of this operation?

                        Yes, no analysis needed. You just need to admit that in the oncoming battle and partial encirclement, with severely wounded in their arms, with limited ammunition, given the fact that the groups were scattered around the city and acted independently, without a clear plan of action, special forces (even taking into account that he is special forces , although most of the rangers before that did not have real combat experience) well, he could not get a shot at 1: 100. Yes, even 1:10 in this situation is super productive. You often nod at Konashenkov, Channel 1 and the other Kiselevs, but as soon as it comes to the American army all your adequacy melts like smoke and you are ready to believe in nonsense about what so far only the heroes of Schwarneiger and Stallone have managed to do.
        2. +2
          5 November 2018 12: 45
          That would be our bourgeoisie "poke" on honestly drank people's property and in his troops and new schools and academies and all that our Marines need! I would be honestly happy!
        3. 0
          14 November 2018 14: 16
          Quote: Pillau
          The author only showed the real state of affairs. Everything about the case, without "rose-colored glasses" and without "everything is gone."

          All this modern technology is simply negligible ...
      2. -6
        5 November 2018 08: 18
        Hit the point good
      3. +4
        5 November 2018 10: 14
        Judging by your comments, you are a typical Trotskyist: all around are enemies of the revolution.
      4. -13
        6 November 2018 10: 20
        I was wrong, it looks like a gang of Western bots, and the author is not a liberal, but worse, he palms the CIA texts to him?
        1. +7
          6 November 2018 12: 36
          By any chance you do not know if it is true that at the "factories of bots / trolls" again the production rates were raised, almost 300 posts on the topic "everything is good, and who is not good is the CIA" per day (6 days a week! ) you need to ... work, otherwise salary from 25 tr. a month not to see, and ... (beat) can? In my opinion, such people are not paid extra and, in general, you deserve more!
          crying
          1. +1
            6 November 2018 16: 13
            Quote: Wildcat
            and ... (beat) can?

            If you beat.
            There are two options:
            or to Syria, to the penal battalion,
            or to a restaurant.
            for stuffing.
    2. -44
      5 November 2018 06: 39
      Fully agree with the author. Fungus agrees. At the expense of the US Marines, they cannot be compared with us. They failed all operations. Remember Somalia, where they were dragged along the streets of the city on a leash.
      1. +29
        5 November 2018 10: 18
        And in Iraq, where were they dragged? In Syria, maybe? Hatred is a more serious sin than it has been lost: it will lead to greater losses.
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 14: 55
          The state of the Marine Corps is not any better than the Navy.
        2. +1
          6 November 2018 18: 09
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          And in Iraq, where were they dragged? In Syria, maybe?


          well, to land the marines on the terrain after it was turned into a lunar landscape by massive bombardments, then there will be no one to drag them around and if local insurgents land them on the front line, they urinate them in years. As the American marines land on an unprepared shore, the whole world saw in videos. American marines like Bandera is covered only in the war with the civilian population and savages with sticks.
      2. +6
        5 November 2018 11: 15
        US Marines 1000 local Zulus in Somalia shot and completed the task. We would have lost like that. In the North Caucasus, we are exchanging 2 special forces for 1 yesterday's ram.
        1. +3
          5 November 2018 13: 28
          Not quite Marines, of course, but even they admitted that the operation was unsuccessful for them. They did not complete all the tasks assigned, did not take the general, but only his advisers, suffered unacceptable losses, although on the other hand they worked very well despite the large advantage in manpower towards the enemy.
        2. +1
          6 November 2018 22: 14
          Give data in a ratio? Especially the second campaign? Is Iliton the main thing to throw on a fan?
    3. +32
      5 November 2018 07: 00
      Quote: Fungus
      The author is a typical proverb ...

      Why is everyone a prowler? He set forth his point of view by comparing documents and facts available in the press. If you have other information, if you please, go to the studio? And the fact that the armed forces and the country are not happy as the Kremlin says is not visible with an armed look. it’s possible to pull a holey financial and organizational blanket over all branches of the armed forces, especially with such an international situation. We have a lot of ambitions (and rightly so) but not very opportunities. Something is at the highest level, and we have to sacrifice something. I hope the problem of the Navy in general, everything is so we will be able to solve, and how can skoree.A problems began to pour like a lump from the mountain.
      1. +10
        5 November 2018 10: 24
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        Something at the highest level,

        Konashenkov?
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 10: 46
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Konashenkov?

          No, I’m not talking about propaganda, but about armaments. Even the United States recognizes this, but apparently this doesn’t suit you?
          1. +8
            5 November 2018 14: 27
            Quote: Mar. Tira
            Even the US recognizes this.

            I was always touched by this "even" from patriotic citizens. USA What do you want, the High Court? 330 million apostles?
            Is there a head on your shoulders? Give an example of such an armament, pay particular attention to how it is known about it.
            I'll give you a hint. If "A TASS source (Interfax, MIA, RG, any state cleaning service) in the Ministry of Defense reports," and there is no press release, let alone an order from the General Staff, the Ministry of Defense or the Commander-in-Chief to be adopted, this means one of two things:
            1. Either the "Source" has leaked classified information state structure.
            2. Or "Source" together with TASS is lying as it breathes. Or one TASS is lying, and the "Source" was added for beauty, which is a more economical version.
            1. -8
              5 November 2018 15: 08
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Give an example

              It is necessary to read. Bigger and more attentive. Here's an article from the Military Forces yesterday. The United States recognized the superiority of Russian air defense writes The National Interest .. Or is it also paid for by the GRU of the Russian Ministry of Defense? Https: //topwar.ru/149275-v-ssha -priznali-prevoshodstvo-rossijskoj-pvo.html
              1. +2
                5 November 2018 15: 52
                And naturally they will ask for a denyuzhku to keep up with the evil Russian! Like so !!
              2. +12
                5 November 2018 17: 03
                Quote: Mar. Tira
                Need to read

                Seriously?
                Quote: Mar. Tira
                Here is an article from VO Yesterday

                It was a sinful thing, I hoped that you would recall some general who once again scared Congress with another wunderwaffe in his holy war with the navy for the budget.
                Instead under US recognize is meant
                Tadamm!
                VO site.
                Quote: Mar. Tira
                The National Interest .. Or is she also paid for by the GRU of the Russian Ministry of Defense?

                I don’t recall you in the comments in this section, so I’ll explain it once.
                1. Not GRU MO, but still GU GSH.
                2. Such dumps as NI are usually paid not by the General Staff, but by Margosha. There are, of course, on the Internet dumps unpaid by Margosha, but if, as in this case, Russia is mentioned in every second article, then there is little doubt.
                3. VO did not bother to give a link to the source. As far as I can understand, you did not take the trouble to read even him.
                https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/fortress-russia-how-can-nato-defeat-moscows-a2ad-strategy-and-air-defenses-35087
                The article is nonsense, but the following should be noted.
                a) blog / buzz. Absolutely everything that VO takes from NI belongs to this category. Learn from Google how buzz translates.
                b) the author, someone adam cabot. Who is it? Try to find out about him on the university website, where he explores God! - Russian nuclear strategy.
                4. For the Russian A2AD. In short - it is not. Exactly one bush of missile defense near Moscow, several air defense bushes here and there. NORAD no, no non-strategic missile defense, no AWACS, air defense aviation is represented by the MiG-31. The S-400 bush with all the bodywork from Buki and Shell can protect itself from one or two of Lancer's drums. One Lancer.

                But Lancer has three reels.
                1. -3
                  6 November 2018 18: 52
                  How scary you are to live, thoroughly realizing that everything connected with the defense in Russia has been 30-50 years behind the American one. Do not cry like this has always been and apparently will continue to do so, they will give shanks from shovels and drive them to the F-35 enemies. Those who survive and knock down less than 2x will be shot after the battle.
                2. 0
                  7 November 2018 15: 01
                  Apparently, everyone pissed off ...
                  So you need in our GSH, you know them better and better !!! The pluses of such messages are capable of me, but there is nothing objective in it, but the main thing is to pour more on all of our ...
                  And about what the S-400 can or cannot protect itself. Where do you get the information from? You served or served at this complex ... Ah, you decided to open the state. a secret ...
                  They already wondered that Mig-31 intercepts planes and missiles, and that fighters simply do not have such a function, it was canceled by your decision.
                  And do you know exactly the condition and number of A-50 aircraft?
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2018 06: 42
                    Quote: jonht
                    And about what the S-400 can or cannot protect itself. Where do you get the information from?

                    The number of available missiles is known, their consumption for the KR (2 pieces each) is known. Even taking the efficiency as 100% (which is impossible), it is not difficult to calculate the consumption of CR.

                    Therefore, those "patriots" who are more intelligent have long been pushing for electronic warfare, and not for air defense systems. There one Krasukha can shoot down all the missiles. And Lancer himself too.

                    Quote: jonht
                    And, you decided to reveal the state. a secret ...

                    Well, it’s only a secret from you that SAM from a massive attack does not help. They were never intended for this.

                    Quote: jonht
                    just fighters do not have such a function

                    Are there many "just fighters" included in the air defense system?

                    Quote: jonht
                    Do you know exactly the condition and number of A-50 aircraft?

                    Open googlemaps yes count.
                    57.05833,40.98167
    4. +21
      5 November 2018 08: 16
      There are few
      - but there are a lot of people like you, throwing any enemy caps
      1. +18
        5 November 2018 10: 53
        And I always have a wild desire to collect and send all these haters to some small local conflict. Give them hats and let them throw up the adversary, and when they return (if they return ...) then ask what it feels like to throw their hats ...
        1. +8
          5 November 2018 11: 34
          As for participation in the conflict, it is inhumane. They will give unnecessary trouble to their immediate commanders and lose their health. Just send them to a motorized rifle company in the vicinity of Pechenga or Borzy. For a month. Select modems. It will be enough.
          1. +3
            5 November 2018 12: 10
            Especially the cookies good even by urgency we were scared by this place, there weren’t anyone who wanted to go voluntarily.
          2. -7
            5 November 2018 14: 01
            The white donkey cameraman, the brave submariner from Haifa / Odessa / Kazakhstan (underline as necessary), the Helkhavir patriot, the specialist in soldier's shoes and indeed the expert in everything and everything - the legendary Gunya (aka Liar), having made a mess of all thematic forums, LJ began to master new platforms. Gentlemen moderators - do not disgrace the site - send it to the eternal ban before it is too late !!!
            1. -4
              5 November 2018 14: 03
              This is addressed to Mr. Gunnerminer, I apologize
            2. -2
              5 November 2018 14: 15
              He is already getting the title. Quietly, I’m watching with interest the development of his career here on the site laughing wassat
              1. -4
                5 November 2018 14: 23
                Here is just the case when it is impossible to be silent. The moderators need to bring the idea to ban him while he or they (how many of them work there under this nickname) have not messed up everything like in LJ
            3. +3
              5 November 2018 22: 17
              Quote: bnm.99
              the legendary Gunya (also known as Liar), having dirtied all thematic forums, LJ began to develop new sites. Gentlemen moderators - do not disgrace the site - send it to the eternal ban before it is too late !!!

              Ltd! This "great" special about everything and everyone is already here? !! Moderators! If so, ban this genius! This is not a Professor who can explain his position normally and reasonably, which differs from the opinion of the majority - but just a group of bots under the same name :)
    5. +17
      5 November 2018 11: 57
      The author is a normal alarmist, and not a panhandler and alarmist. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prepare a marine for a year of military service. Intelligent driver - too. Battle Sergeant - similarly. And the foreman of the company, without which the company will not be able to fight at all (without the comrade - he can, if the foreman is sensible) must be prepared for at least 5 years. It is in this position and in this part.
      1. -12
        5 November 2018 14: 44
        ... it’s up to you - you’ll take off your pants .. In a year you will teach .. Moreover, before landing there artillery will go through and aviation ..
        1. +20
          5 November 2018 15: 02
          "Will the artillery go through there before the landing?" Do you remember the Kerch landing experience? As with a full load of people on a winter night in the icy water up to the neck and chest "parachuted"? Half in it and drowned, which was water up to his neck. The rest of the combat mission - to catch on to the shore was completed, but they did not fight for long, the BC quickly ended. You will not teach everyone how to sail in a year, but it is a must for the Marines, and in pants. Physical training for a year will not rise to the level, not to mention the moral, psychological and shooting.
          1. -3
            6 November 2018 07: 04
            ... do not remember what the general said - * women still give birth .. * - this was the attitude - failure to fulfill the order ...
          2. +5
            6 November 2018 10: 55
            Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
            Do you remember the Kerch landing experience? As with a full load of people on a winter night in the icy water up to the neck and chest "parachuted"?

            You can still recall the Kuril landing. When the landing with a full calculation began to land at a depth of 2,5 meters - because the ships designated for the landing could not come closer.
          3. 0
            8 November 2018 07: 18
            ... and when Moses led his * army * the sea parted and they walked like dry land ..
    6. +22
      5 November 2018 12: 25
      I often disagree with Andrei in my assessments, but in this article I did not see a cry. More or less normal review. No tantrums and wringing hands. And the lack of amphibious assault is obvious. The tapirs are old and, in theory, should have long gone on the needles. The 775s are also not young, and most importantly they were built on Polish shipyards. Particular difficulties with some types of spare parts and types of repair are quite possible. Mistral did not give us. You must first design your own udk, which is far from easy, given the lack of experience in designing such ships. Boats are far from everywhere able to solve the problems of troop transfer. If there is something else in the Caspian and Baltic, then there are no more open and distant TVDs. There is a problem and there’s no getting away from it. request
      As for the equipment of the marines, as far as I know, they, together with the airborne forces, should become the basis of the mobile forces. That is, in essence, their equipment will be basically unified. As a result, marines and airborne forces will become an analogue of the US Marine Corps. That is, they will be able to conduct expeditionary hostilities autonomously from the main forces.
      Well and most importantly, the Marines received good combat experience in Syria. There is something for them to remember and to tell about. Fights for t4, Salmu, Marge Sultan and so on. There is someone to remember - the brigade commander of the 61st Fedyanin died in the war. But the combat experience for such is invaluable, and according to the results of the operation there will obviously be changes in both training and equipment. Especially since all the brigades have already passed through Syria. That is, both commanders and officers and the backbone of brigades have good combat experience. request
      1. -3
        5 November 2018 14: 01
        A division of marines is needed by every fleet in every theater. With rotation every 4 years, clockwise. The term of full service to the marines should be reduced - 20 years of service in the marines should be counted for 25 years of service. Salaries increase by 20% compared with linear motorized arrows. And everything will be a bunch ...
        1. +3
          5 November 2018 17: 57
          The author of the article in passing outlined the very purpose of the Marine Corps:

          A sailor, even an ordinary sailor, requires quite a long and serious preparation for service on a ship where ground combat skills are, in general, not needed. Respectively, its use in land operations can only be justified only in some exceptional, not typical cases, but not on a permanent basis ... 

          Probably, we can say that it is then finally formed a view of the marines, as the troops with special training and specialized landing-landing (Maybe it’s right - landing-assault? And it turned out to be landing-landing) facilities, despite the fact that military equipment was to a certain extent standardized with the ground, and with the one that used the airborne troops


          Even during my service, I heard the opinions of military officers that the tactics of combined arms combat and air assault units repeat the tactics of the Great Patriotic War. Maybe it’s worthwhile to figure out why we need landing assault units under our defensive doctrine. The main difference between the landing and ground units is that, being delivered by air or by sea to the place of the combat mission, he does not become like a pale moth and does not "move away" from sea and airborne illness, and from the first second he is ready to fight.
          Any military will tell you that the ratio of attacking and defending when calculating the operation is taken 3: 1. The exception is units (including air assault), which, due to special training and education, are able to cope with a large number of enemy trained according to the combined arms program. It follows that the number of personnel in such units (combat units) requires not so much a large number of military personnel as their combat training and ability to adapt in difficult situations.
          I would not focus on the large number of marine corps in the Northern Fleet, where the landing on the southern coast of the Barents Sea in summer is similar to the same landing on the northern coast of the Black Sea in winter.
          Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
          A division of marines is needed by every fleet in every theater. With rotation every 4 years, clockwise. The term of full service to the marines should be reduced - 20 years of service in the marines should be counted for 25 years of service. Salaries increase by 20% compared with linear motorized arrows. And everything will be a bunch ...

          Now consider your desire for a Marine Division in each fleet. Undoubtedly, sea-based airborne assault units are needed in the TF, BF, Black Sea Fleet, in the Caspian Sea. Perhaps this need will be in demand in the Northern Fleet as well. But!!! What tasks will the command set for them? Excuse me, to train people, as it was in the Kirkenes Red Banner Marine Corps Brigade (61st Brigade) (with marches, airborne assault forces, sea firing) in order to send bandits in the mountains to pacify? Isn't it too expensive? The guys, of course, did their job - they carried out the order so that ... they did not tarnish with a word of their honor, unlike those whose orders and demands they were forced to fulfill ...
          Something tells me that the landing will not pull food, warehouses of the military aviation, fuel and lubricants and other logistics. The specifics of the task. But the weapons, special means and equipment they must have the most advanced. You are right that in such parts you need not only an increased payment (for example, as with government officials, judges, prosecutors) and preferential retirement experience, but living conditions must comply. It is likely that this will be a state structure similar to PMCs and a professional military, after training. It is likely that for such units a pension (cash allowance) can be assigned after 10 years of service. So that a person can decide for himself, he must go this way completely or retire and start a family.
          Everything suggests that the air assault units and subunits are not suitable as "cannon fodder" and the attitude to these troops should be state, well thought out.
          stop As for the bundle, it is necessary to link into it those who are parasitic in society of people who do not separate personal interests from the interests of the Fatherland.
          1. +1
            5 November 2018 20: 19
            I don’t specify about individual brigades or regiments of MPs in the Azov, Barents, White and Caspian Seas, as well as in the Bering Strait, it’s clear that SEPARATE flotillas should be with their own MPs, purely to protect their bases and ports, river mouths, islands and other objects at least. Important islands and STRATEGIC river mouths are on all of our naval theater, take a look at the map of the Baltic states for example, or the Black Sea. There without the Marine Corps it will be sad. Divisions should be prepared for more extensive and key STRATEGIC objects such as archipelagos of islands. You will not move to Greenland with one regiment, right? This is enough for Bornholm, and even other brigades will not be enough for other Baltic archipelagos. And after all, every object on the theater of operations must be studied constantly and thoroughly, from the bottom to the tire.
            1. +1
              6 November 2018 03: 44
              Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
              You will not move to Greenland with one regiment, right?

              Michael! I wrote so much about the defensive doctrine and the purpose of the DShCH in modern combat ... But I repeat:
              Let the enemy who hid in ambush remember
              We are on the alert, we are following the enemy.
              We do not want any land,
              But we will not give up ours.

              You can not use the tactics of landing in Normandy in 1944. Modern high-precision weapons can clean out any contingent that has arrived for this without much damage to itself. Another thing is the conduct of operations of a specific nature, when starting a full-scale war does not make sense.
              1. 0
                6 November 2018 14: 56
                During TMV, large islands and archipelagos will inevitably be taken, which does not mean their post-war annexation. A strategic or operational need will force Greenland to take in the Arctic and Bornholm, Ezel, etc. islands and archipelagos in the Baltic. The Germans during the WWII kept the garrisons there all the war, and on the islands in the English Channel too. Crete was the only thing they cost - but he threatened their transport operations in the Mediterranean Sea, and they took it with DIVISION and then held it, he ensured their dominance in the Mediterranean. It is necessary to study their instructive landing and security operations. They will be carried out during the TMV, the need will compel.
        2. +2
          5 November 2018 18: 08
          What for ? If used for defense, then part of the fleets has army corps subordinate to them and Arctic brigades - ordinary land hunters, only subordinate to the fleet.
          And for landing operations and expeditionary operations, we do not have delivery vehicles for the division on the part of the fleets. And why do we need a division of marines in the Baltic or the Caspian. Where to land? There are arctic brigades in the North for action on the islands. For expeditionary operations, delivery systems like udk are needed so that the marines can be based on them. While they are not there is no sense in the Marine division there. Well, except that the Arctic brigades in the marines are written down, but this is still not the same.
          That's where the division is needed and is - Pacific Fleet. There are many island TVDs in the form of the Kuril Islands and the possibility of landing against japs ​​should not be ruled out. Plus possible expeditionary operations in the Pacific. But then again they need udk. request
          1. +1
            6 November 2018 20: 04
            Your mistake is that you consider the coastline to be an ordinary relief. Have you seen how they put armored vehicles on the coastline? On small platforms, side to side - and there are really no other areas with porches on a wild steep rocky shore. And you need to fight in this relief, keep ALL of this coastline! Try to hold a tank along the coast - even in the South you are tormented, and in the North you will die out. At the same time, in a combat situation, you need to maintain a position and adjacent water area on this coastline, operate equipment and weapons, set up and guard minefields and anti-airborne obstacles, bunkers and bunkers, place and supply l / s, etc. All this needs to be learned and taught, to have specific experience. As for tactical, operational and strategic goals for landings, they are chosen based on the experience and training of their MP, and if you do not have an MP, then you simply will not send conventional troops to many targets on the banks. Give in to their enemy.
    7. +2
      5 November 2018 12: 44
      in the 40s, too, the slogans screamed with a bayonet and a grenade to pick out the enemy on their territory and what? -Germans in Moscow in less than 4 months-crazy losses, daily kilometers advance of the Wehrmacht troops exceeded the speed of advance in France. Do you want to repeat 41 years?
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 14: 48
        ... at 41 there was a full brothel primarily in the General Staff ..
        1. +3
          5 November 2018 20: 22
          And now what do you think? Voroshilov and Malinkov and Meretsky even though the children in England and America didn’t live and didn’t keep billions in German banks and if there was a brothel in the General Staff then right now ... I’m afraid to write something right now. our general staff today where half of the palaces and ships there are tuned up have no chance against the striped guys because the general staff has striped money under the mattresses ... the mattresses are also striped
    8. +1
      6 November 2018 21: 17
      And how do you like the situation when only the last armored personnel carrier can start up, and in front of it it starts pushing? But this is real MP 90s-00s ... Yes, and training at the level of motorized riflemen ... The author is right, the situation is not simple ...
  2. +19
    5 November 2018 06: 06
    The United States Marine Corps (KPM USA), in fact, is an expeditionary force of over 180 thousand people. able to independently conduct large military operations outside the United States.

    The main feature of the United States ILC is that it reports directly to the president, while other troops report to Congress wink From MARINE there is one name, in fact - a separate army.
  3. +14
    5 November 2018 06: 19
    -No, we reduce it to the size of the brigade ... Well -

    And we equip for 70% conscripts with a clown one-year life (of which three months of training).
    1. +6
      5 November 2018 11: 12
      Quote: gunnerminer
      with a clown’s one-year lifespan (of which three months of training).

      When after training in Afghanistan they sent it normally ...
      1. +8
        5 November 2018 11: 15
        At that time, the term of military service in the Ground Forces was two years. The training was six months.
    2. -8
      5 November 2018 14: 09
      We will deal with our problems without advisers from Odessa and Haifa.
    3. +1
      6 November 2018 22: 18
      Before approving, list the marines with disaggregated conscripts / contractors.
  4. +5
    5 November 2018 06: 25
    -This type of ship causes very conflicting feelings-

    Exactly. As they say, gypsies love jeans, and jeans are not simple. The maneuvers of these ships are given by the rumble of engines. There can be no talk of any sudden landing. For the Greek Defense Forces, they’ll get down and relocate the units between the Cyclades Islands. In calm weather. degree of vulnerability from small fragments and bullets when hit in the blades. The add-on easily breaks out of the Chinese DShK with conventional bullets.
    1. +2
      5 November 2018 08: 08


      about quiet weather a correct remark.
      1. -5
        5 November 2018 08: 10
        Discussed hovercraft. MDK Bison small things needed, but not worthy of discussion.
        1. -1
          5 November 2018 08: 16
          Quote: gunnerminer
          Discussed hovercraft. MDK Bison small things needed, but not worthy of discussion.

          what for he gave up? in the DKVP, it made sense when V.Dogov stood close to the Danish and Turkish straits, and now only Hanko, and Lake Peipsi, should be cushioned. And then, not on these mastodons
    2. +1
      5 November 2018 14: 12
      Do you recall how you were banned for flooding on BMPD?
  5. +20
    5 November 2018 06: 49
    There were T-80 in Kamchatka, and now they are returning, well. A month ago, I watched as BTR-82A was distilled to the amount of 12-15 pieces at the location of the Marine Corps brigade in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. A friend serves there, said that they renewed the fleet of equipment, amassed a floral series of self-propelled guns. Permanent exercises and training camp. So our Marine Corps lives and develops.
    To the existing 300s, they delivered the 400th, the Yelizo Aviation Regiment is slowly updating, not as noticeable as the other parts, but for many years they fly a lot and often.
    So not everything is lost.
    1. +7
      5 November 2018 15: 53
      As far as I can judge from official sources, 400-ki in Kamchatka are replacing the decommissioned S-300PT complexes, so here everything is logical: the write-off must be replenished with something. The question is whether the proportion is maintained: are we not getting one S-300 regiment instead of two S-400 regiments. No, I understand perfectly well that the latter is more perfect and that's all, but the number of launchers is the same (and the missiles in most S-400 systems are still old 48N6E and 9M96E1-2, so the priority of Triumph is only in the detection range). The question naturally arises: are we not getting "out of trouble", because it should be borne in mind that these complexes are on the brink of the main attack, while being a priority target themselves, they simply will not be allowed to recharge.
      As for the Marines, I will say one thing: they don’t need Boomerangs and other “innovative wunderwaffe”, give them BMP-3F, give them an analogue of “Wasp” or “Juan Carlos” and they will ensure your interests anywhere in the world.
      According to the Bison, the machine is interesting, but personally I would prefer the "Eaglet" or its more lifting options. I will explain. Given the presence of full-fledged universal amphibious assault ships and complete domination in the airspace (which can never be absolute and therefore very short-lived, and therefore the value of the landing time increases significantly) - they personally seem to me much more preferable option for a quick transfer troops. And not just fast, but lightning-fast, when the enemy had not yet managed to deploy its defense forces on the coast. In the presence of the latter, the landing, even from the Bison, even from the Eaglet, is equally an activity for suicide bombers. And so aviation, cruise and tactical missiles temporarily suppress the enemy in the landing area, ekranoplanes land the first batch of paratroopers, they occupy positions on the coast and await the approach of the main forces from universal landing ships. And all this is happening with the simultaneous landing of airborne units in the rear.
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 22: 21
        As far as I can tell, we did not have a reduction in air defense units in Kamchatka. They talked about rearmament.
        And I didn’t see anyone transporting the complexes, but they export and import everything from us by sea, although we live on the peninsula.
  6. +9
    5 November 2018 07: 49
    I carefully read all the articles of the author ... There are certainly questions and a lot, but the general condition of the fleet ... if we can give you something in the teeth ... and it really hurts ... And then not everything works out as I wanted ... well so this is the reality of life ... Wishlist, they cost money ... and sometimes prohibitively large ...
  7. +18
    5 November 2018 08: 03
    Ensign Ivan Parshikov told.

    So. End of the 80s. Filming of a training film about the landing of the Marine Corps to seize a beachhead. Place of action near Novorossiysk. Actors: a career battalion of the Marine Corps and their opponents motorized riflemen from among the hastily called up from the reserve of reservists - "partisans".

    A few days of training, movie-like takes, and finally a day of filming for the finish.

    Support ships conducted artillery training. Large landing ships approached the shore and the landing of the marines began. The brave marines on armor sailed ashore and under the cover of their armored personnel carriers rushed to seize the enemy’s positions. Excited guys - marines entered the role so much that they began to really work out hand-to-hand combat techniques on partisans. As Alexander said:

    White and fluffy "partisans" were so crazy with such impudence that they got out of the trenches and drove the entire battalion back into the sea with rifle butts.

    The film was re-shot. The spoiled version began to show at the command camp.

    What can I say? Indeed, war begins with politicians through a cadre army, and partisans end it.
    1. +1
      5 November 2018 09: 27
      Quote: gunnerminer
      ...
      What can I say? Indeed, war begins with politicians through a cadre army, and partisans end it.

      The last phrase is brilliant simply. good
    2. +12
      5 November 2018 11: 58
      Quote: gunnerminer
      What can I say?

      laughing Your ensign is lying! There is not a single place near Novorossiysk where you can land with a roar, especially at the end of the 80! And I don’t remember something about special movies with partisans! Here in Grigoryevka in 89, there was a colossally ostentatious (especially for Gorbachev) landing troops were shot there, at the Feodosia training ground ... they also shot ..... but without partisans !!!!
      1. +3
        6 November 2018 22: 21
        Serge, this ganimayer or Singshelshuher I look at all trades master. On forums info picked up and treats.
    3. -5
      5 November 2018 14: 14
      Did you whisper this white donkey?
    4. +2
      5 November 2018 22: 33

      [/ quote] Ensign Ivan Parshikov told. [quote]


      Do not tell my slippers !!))
      After talking with at least one Marine you will understand that your friend told a lie!))
      ... "they drove back into the water" .... here is a laugh) I will definitely tell my friends from the 36th brigade - let's laugh, together
      1. -2
        6 November 2018 09: 00
        to make fun of you ... of those nonsense that you had to see ... some tears ... provets to your znakomststsians from 22 outfits ... not the guards
  8. +12
    5 November 2018 08: 13
    I must say that the Soviet marines have never been an analogue of the American.
    Yes .... The author could be even more upset by himself and upset his readers, indicating that the United States Commission, in contrast to our MP, could very well conduct combat operations with any enemy, including at the state level, for three days, only by order of the President of the United States. Until the US Congress and Senate give their verdict, the US can start a war or not, and this accordingly opens or closes the permission to use all the US Armed Forces. That is why the U.S. ILC was pumped up with all types of weapons, effectively turning them into a micro copy of the aircraft.
    The Americans, however, were practically undeveloped (one division).
    I thought that the author is able to "shed a tear" only in relation to our Armed Forces, but it turns out he does it perfectly well in relation to the US Armed Forces ... All the airborne divisions of the American Airborne Forces are included in the XVIII Airborne Corps. The structure of this corps includes three divisions.
    The first is the 82nd Airborne Division of the United States, purely airborne

    The second - the 101st division of the US Airborne Forces (air assault)

    Third - 10th Light Infantry Division (Mountain)

    Well, parts and units gain.
    led to the fact that the marines were subordinate to the coastal missile and artillery troops
    I read it and hung for a while ... Where did the author get this stupidity? The coastal forces of the fleets did not obey the missile and artillery forces. BRAVs were structurally part of the Coastal Forces, having their own control.
    The "crazy hands" of Mr. Serdyukov, who miraculously became the Minister of Defense, reached the Pacific Ocean. In his indestructible desire to optimize everything that is possible and that cannot be doubly optimized, he managed to disband our 55th Marine Corps division, reducing its staff and turning it into the 155th Separate Marine Corps Brigade.
    Has the author ever heard such a name for a military unit as "coastal defense division"? So one of the "merits" of the former leadership of the RF Armed Forces, and this was not under Serdyukov, but earlier still under Grachev, is the reduction of these divisions. And they were the most HEAVY-EQUIPPED in the Coastal Troops. And how these divisions and their weapons were lacking in the same "first Chechen" ... By the way, at the same Pacific Fleet, it was the 40th RBS.
    1. +11
      5 November 2018 10: 21
      Quote: svp67
      All airborne divisions of the Airborne Forces of America are included in the XVIII Airborne Corps. The structure of this corps includes three divisions.

      Yeah. That's just the airborne of them, only one
      Quote: svp67
      82-I US Airborne Division, purely airborne

      Here she is
      Quote: svp67
      101 I Airborne Division (Airborne Assault)

      But this division is a fairly specific helicopter connection, not an analogue of our airborne
      Quote: svp67
      10 Light Infantry Division (Mountain)

      Which doesn’t belong to the airborne
      Corps 18 is not an Airborne Forces, it is a "Contingency Corps" designed for rapid deployment
      Quote: svp67
      I read it and froze for a while ...

      Read it again, it will suddenly help. I write
      Quote: svp67
      Marines were subordinate to coastal missile and artillery troops

      You write
      Quote: svp67
      The coastal forces of the fleets did not obey the missile and artillery forces.

      In general, maybe, before we ulcerate, we will learn to read? Or do you not understand the difference between marines and coastal troops?
      Read the last article. Coastal troops = GRAV + MP. It was only during the merger that it turned out that it was the representatives of the BRAV who commanded
      Quote: svp67
      Has the author ever heard such a name for a military unit as "coastal defense division"? So one of the "merits" of the former leadership of the RF Armed Forces, and this was not under Serdyukov, but earlier still under Grachev, is the reduction of these divisions. And they were the most HEAVY-EQUIPPED in the Coastal Troops. And how these divisions and their weapons were lacking in the same "first Chechen" ..

      Nonsense, from the word "complete". coastal defense divisions, to which we will reach, under the USSR were skadmed formations
      1. +5
        5 November 2018 11: 05
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Yeah. That's just the airborne of them, only one

        So we have not all airborne assault forces in the airborne forces, there are also airborne assault
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        But this division is a fairly specific helicopter connection, not an analogue of our airborne

        Yes what you say. Look again at the items related to our air assault brigades
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In general, maybe, before we ulcerate, we will learn to read? Or do you not understand the difference between marines and coastal troops?

        I know this difference EXCELLENT, as I had the honor to serve there. The MP is one of the components of the Coastal Forces, the same component is the BRAV, coastal missile and artillery troops) and the MP did not obey them. You seem far from understanding this
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It was only during the merger that it turned out that it was the representatives of the Brav

        Who told you this nonsense?
        The commander of the naval base of the Navy of the Russian Federation is Aleksandr Nikolayevich Kolpachenko (born January 12, 1959, Alexandria, Kirovograd Oblast, USSR, USSR) - the Russian military leader. The chief of the coastal forces of the Navy since 2009, lieutenant general (2014).
        After graduating from high school in 1976, he entered the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School (RVVDKU), which he graduated in 1980.
        After graduating from the RVDKU in 1980, he was assigned to serve in the post of platoon commander of the reconnaissance company of the 104th Guards Parachute Regiment of the 76th Guards Airborne Division (Pskov city).
        From 1984 to 1986 he served in the DRA in the 350th, and then in the 317th PDP as deputy commander and intelligence commander of the 317th Guards. PDS OKSV in Afghanistan.
        After returning from Afghanistan in 1986, he served in the 104th Guards PDP, where he successively held positions from commander of a reconnaissance company to commander of an airborne battalion.
        In 1992 - student of the Military Academy. M.V. Frunze. After graduating from the Academy in 1995, he was transferred as deputy regiment commander to the 242nd Training Center of the Airborne Forces, the city of Omsk.
        In 1997 he was appointed commander of the regiment.
        In 2000-2003 - Chief of Staff of the 7th Guards. airborne forces in the city of Novorossiysk.
        In July 2003 he returned to Omsk, heading the 242nd Training Center of the Airborne Forces.
        In June 2005 he was appointed commander of the 76th Guards. Airborne Forces (Pskov).
        Since 2009 - Chief of the Coastal Forces of the Navy.
        In 2014, he was awarded the military rank of lieutenant general [1].
        Where is the mention of missile forces and artillery?
        Next, the fleets ...
        Pacific Fleet - Major General Pushkin, Sergey Vitalievich. A graduate of the Kazan Tank School in 1980. During his service in the Trans-Baikal Military District and the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany, he grew from a platoon commander to a tank battalion commander.
        In 1991 he graduated from an armored academy, after which he was appointed to the Northern Fleet as commander of a separate tank battalion. Then he served as chief of staff, commander of the marine brigade. From 1999 to 2000, Sergei Vitalyevich was the head of the combat training department of the Navy's Coastal Forces Directorate. For four years, he commands a separate marine brigade in Kaspiysk. After graduating from the Academy of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces in 2006, he was appointed deputy commander of the Novorossiysk Naval Base and chief of the coastal forces of the base. Since 2007 at the Pacific Fleet. In 2007 - 2009, commander of the 55th division of the MP Pacific Fleet.
        PF Major General Kolotovkin Andrey Vladimirovich, in 1994 he graduated from the St. Petersburg Higher Combined Arms Command School, in 2006 from the Combined Arms Academy of the Armed Forces, in 2015 from the Academy of the General Staff.
        He took part in hostilities, counter-terrorism operations, was awarded the medal "For Courage", two orders of Courage, the order "For Military Merit".
        BF - Lieutenant General Andrei Gushchin, Hero of Russia ... in general, all his officer service took place only in the Marine Corps.
        SF- Lieutenant-General Dmitry Yuryevich Kraev, In 1980 he graduated from the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School.
        He served in the following positions:
        platoon commander of a reconnaissance company 104 pdp 76 guards. Chernihiv Airborne Forces (Pskov).
        From 1984 to 1986 he served in Afghanistan, where he commanded a reconnaissance company of 317 pdp.
        Since 1986, he served in the 104th PDP, where he successively held positions from the commander of a reconnaissance company to the commander of an airborne battalion.
        In 1992 - student of the Military Academy. M.V. Frunze.
        After graduating from the Academy in 1995, he was appointed deputy regiment commander at the 242 Airborne Training Center (Omsk).
        In 1997 he was appointed commander of the regiment.
        From 2000 to 2003 he served as chief of staff of the 7th Guards. Airborne Forces (Novorossiysk).
        In July 2003 he returned to Omsk, heading the 242 Airborne Training Center.
        In June 2005 he was appointed commander of the 76th Guards. Chernihiv Airborne Forces (Pskov).
        Since 2009 - Head of the Coastal Forces of the Russian Federation Navy.

        Sorry, but something of the gunners, I do not see the high command of the Coastal Forces.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Nonsense, from the word "complete". coastal defense divisions, to which we will reach, under the USSR were skadmed formations

        But what a frame ... complete. So not only that, but also a complete almost double staff of officers. And at the expense of the personnel, so if you take the tankers, they had 100% staff of mech-vods and somewhere around 80% of the commanders and gunners who didn't charge. And to full staff, on the same exercises, they turned around very quickly.
        1. +6
          5 November 2018 12: 04
          Quote: svp67
          I know this difference EXCELLENT, as I had the honor to serve there.

          So why do you get so childish, serving?
          Quote: svp67
          So we have not all airborne assault forces in the airborne forces, there are also airborne assault

          101 is not a DSB. The purpose of the DSB during the Great Kneading was to disorganize opponents by mass landings close to the enemy, such operations were most often carried out from helicopters in small groups.
          And the 101 is a mobile division, where the infantry is transplanted from a car to a helicopter. In general, the tasks are completely different
          Quote: svp67
          Who told you this nonsense?
          Commander of the BV Navy of the Russian Federation - Alexander Nikolayevich Kolpachenko

          Yeah. Now tell me in all the chilling details why you are telling me about Kolpachenko, who led the Navy BV IN 2009 YEAR while it comes to the time of their creation ie xnumx r?
          In 1989, they were commanded by Skuratov, Ivan Sidorovich
          In 1964, he graduated from the Black Sea Higher Naval School. P.S. Nakhimova.
          After graduating from college until the year 1971, he served in the Pacific Fleet, where he went from being the head of the squad to the commander of the coastal missile unit.
          From 1972 year to 1974 year - was a student of the Naval Academy. Admiral N.G. Kuznetsova.
          Since 1977 of the year - commander of a coastal missile regiment;
          From 1979 to 1985, he was the chief of coastal missile-artillery troops and naval infantry of the Baltic Fleet;
          In 1987, he graduated from the Military Academy of the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces;
          C 1987 of the year - chief specialist of the coastal missile and artillery troops of the Navy;
          Since 1989 of the year - chief of coastal troops and marines of the Navy of the USSR Armed Forces;
          1. +2
            5 November 2018 12: 34
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            The purpose of the DSB during the Great Kneading was to disorganize opponents by mass landings close to the enemy, such operations were most often carried out from helicopters in small groups.

            Strange, but why didn't you copy the text further ... from the chapter "History of the formation of the DShB" This was written at the very beginning, and then a more interesting story follows ... "The high level and significance of the DShB was demonstrated at the exercises at the end 80s on the island of Iturup, where 6 battalions and artillery landed on MI-8 and MI-2 helicopters.
            Sorry, but two battalions with artillery, what a hell of a small group.
            And in Afghanistan ... There, the air assault forces were represented by one brigade (56 infantry brigade) and two infantry battalions as part of separate brigade
            "The most massive combat airborne operation in the USSR Armed Forces, in the period after the Great Patriotic War, should be considered the 5th Panjshir operation in May-June 1982, during which a mass landing was carried out for the first time in Afghanistan: only during the first three days, more than 4 thousand people were landed from helicopters.In total, about 12 thousand servicemen of various types of troops took part in this operation (more than 10 thousand Soviet soldiers plus Afghan troops and militia) The operation took place simultaneously for all 120 km in depth gorges. As a result, most of the Panjshir gorge was taken under control. "
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            In 1989, they were commanded by Skuratov, Ivan Sidorovich

            So you are talking about Skuratov .... I saw him personally twice. He was a very smart guy and really did a lot to develop and equip the Coastal Forces of the USSR and Russia. Just started to serve under his command. Something nothing bad was heard about him and his leadership. The formation of the Coastal Forces was underway, a new tactic, structure was being worked out .... there were mistakes, where would they be without them. But, so that the MP was subordinate to BRAV .... I have not heard this.
            1. +2
              5 November 2018 13: 42
              Quote: svp67
              Strange, but why didn't you copy the text further ... from the chapter "History of the formation of the DShB"

              What for? You yourself found :)))
              Quote: svp67
              The high level and significance of JBM was demonstrated during exercises at the end of the 80's on Iturup Island, where 6 battalion and artillery landed on helicopters MI-8 and MI-2.

              The question is not in quantity, but in tasks - the DShB is, in fact, a special force, and the 101th is more like a motorized rifle division in helicopters instead of cars and armored personnel carriers
              Quote: svp67
              But, so that the MP was subordinate to BRAV .... I have not heard this.

              Here I expressed myself not quite correctly, but ... The fact is that formally the BRAF and the MP are two big differences, but taking into account the fact that the BRAV commander commanded the newly formed military branch, it turns out that the MP was as if simply built into the structure . That is, you can look at it in such a way that the command of the BRAV has also received the Marines in submission.
              I agree with you, here I needed to write more correctly
              1. +5
                5 November 2018 15: 29
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                but taking into account the fact that the commander of the BRAV commanded the newly formed military branch, it turns out that the MP was as if simply built into the structure.

                Well this is not about Skuratov. I remember his lecture, which he gave, as he sees the development of the Coastal Forces. He looked far, large-scale. It was under him that the divisions of the ground forces reorganized into divisions along the coast of defense were included in the BV.
                By the way, as an artilleryman, he perfectly understood the importance of artillery in a land battle, under the guise of rearmament, he almost doubled the number of artillery in subunits and units of these divisions. I know that 40 DBO is the only one that received "NONA-SVK". And the missile division of this division was re-equipped with the Tochka-M. And Skuratov saw RBS not only as a "guardian" of its coast, but also as "guardians" of areas of the planet that are especially important for the Russian fleet ... of some straits and ports.
            2. -5
              5 November 2018 14: 18
              -MP was subordinate to GRAV ... I haven’t heard this .-

              On the territory of Dagestan and Chechnya, Major General Otrakovsky commanded units of the Marine Corps.
          2. +5
            5 November 2018 15: 26
            "operations were mostly carried out from helicopters in small groups" ////
            ----
            This is called "airborne assault". Airborne assault is a method. And the massive parachute drop of thousands of paratroopers is not necessary. You can land one company from the sea, and this will be called "amphibious assault".
      2. 0
        7 November 2018 22: 49
        Andrey, please check the information again:
        Although ... the first, quite dubious organizational measure for marines was adopted back in the USSR in 1989 - the formation of the Navy Coastal Forces. On the one hand, it looked logical - to withdraw under a single command all the forces involved in the defense of the coast, that is, BRAV and the Marines (we will talk about additional reinforcement later), but on the other, according to some reports, the Marines became subordinate the coastal missile and artillery troops, which, in general, did not understand very well the specifics and needs of the marine corps. There is an opinion that the first problems in equipping the marines began precisely after their inclusion in the Coastal troops.

        I know for sure that in the Northern Fleet the marines were already part of the BRAV for ten years (1980) before the year you indicated (1989). And it seems that similar was on other fleets, but these are my assumptions.
    2. +3
      5 November 2018 12: 02
      Quote: svp67
      it was the 40th RBS.

      At the Black Sea Fleet there was 126 Gorlovskaya, Red Banner, Order of Suvorov RBS
      1. +1
        5 November 2018 13: 15
        40-I was on the Pacific Fleet at the end of 80-x-beginning 90-x. Big stone and surroundings. Even in Magadan were naval with the states of the MP.
        1. -1
          5 November 2018 14: 15
          In January 1995, it suddenly became clear that in Grozny the battalion of trained paratroopers of the MP KTOF was not recruited.
          1. -7
            5 November 2018 14: 29
            And it's not your business to worry about what turned out and what not. Did you collect all the stones on Khurb?
          2. +3
            5 November 2018 19: 13
            Quote: gunnerminer
            In January 1995, it suddenly became clear that in Grozny the battalion of trained paratroopers of the MP KTOF was not recruited.

            I don’t remember the year, with the Pacific Fleet the battalion commander refused to take the battalion to the Caucasus - like, the battalion in the current state cannot fulfill the tasks. Convicted under the article Betrayal of the Motherland. Then, like, softened, but the fact is nichrenas! And let's go with the SF. Losses suffered hefty. My friend then served in the MP MP, then he left for the MCI, now we are celebrating together on November 5th.
            1. 0
              5 November 2018 19: 18
              1995, they didn’t convict. He served as a translator, with demotion. 70 people were killed by the KSF.
          3. 0
            6 November 2018 09: 02
            oh well ... there on the Mozdok take-off and without them it was sickening
    3. +5
      6 November 2018 13: 30
      Quote: svp67
      That is why the U.S. ILC was pumped up with all types of weapons, effectively turning them into a micro copy of the aircraft.

      Hehe hehe ... that's just pumping the U.S. ILC with technology within existing budget turned the marines into some kind of ... rogue.
      Who lives at the bottom of the ocean buys Huey and Cobra? Marines! Who could not in the BMP and out of grief renamed the old LVTP-7 into the "assault vehicle" AAV-7? Who was the last to switch from the M60 to the Abrams, practically together with the Egyptians? Who has the earliest models of "Abrams" in service? Who wanted to buy decommissioned Harriers from limes for spare parts? Who was the Apache too expensive for? The answer is always the same - the ILC.
      In short, an advertising image to the teeth of an armed front line of American imperialism upon detailed acquaintance, it somehow peels off sharply. In general, I immediately recall the scene of the robbery of army property by the marines on Guadalcanal from the series The Pacific - "we are fighting the old days of the First World War, and these parasites have the very best!" smile
      1. +2
        6 November 2018 13: 54
        ... actually, there are no sensible articles on the subject of foreign armies in general, and CPM in particular. Grab it, plz!
        hi
      2. +1
        6 November 2018 15: 28
        "within the existing budget, turned the Marines into some kind of ... rogue." ////
        ----
        There are also opposite examples, when the ILC received the latest weapons: the first received the F-35 (F35B), the "three-seven" howitzers, the first replaced the M-4 with a German rifle. It is more difficult for them to re-arm, since they are more often thrust into hot spots: all the time "half" re-armed.
      3. +1
        6 November 2018 15: 53
        Quote: Alexey RA
        we are fighting the old days of the First World War, and these parasites have the best of everything!

        Cinema is a good thing. But somehow I didn’t hear that the IUCN Aces complained to Congress that they did not have access to army weapons. Marines have their own pride.
        1. 0
          6 November 2018 16: 13
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          But somehow I didn’t hear that the IUCN Aces complained to Congress that they did not have access to army weapons. Marines have their own pride.

          So there is access. No money.
          "Apache" was tested on board the UDC "Nassau" back in 1981 - but no money was allocated for the sea "Apaches". "... but you hold on.smile
          With the tanks at the KMP the picture is the same - stretch legs for clothes.
          At the EFV, the ILC also did not find money. Result? Instead of the BMP, which the ILC was supposed to transfer a quarter of a century ago, the marines continue to dissect into LVTP-7. And only recently, the Marines found money for wheeled armored personnel carriers.
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Cinema is a good thing.

          Duc ... filmed something according to the recollections of the participants. Their option trench truth, in which there was everything - and the raid of the marines on the army warehouse, and the sergeant-"gunny" obscenely covering the green summer at the shooting range, and the marauder of privates, and the constant mess at every landing.
    4. 0
      6 November 2018 22: 24
      Well yes, All America and Screaming Eagles, 2 divisions.
  9. -22
    5 November 2018 08: 16
    Andrew from Chelyabinsk, anti-crust is not enough laughing all such opuses are imprisoned in one dudu as per order laughing
    1. +8
      5 November 2018 08: 33
      Andrei just lifted the -masset a couple of centimeters to show the combat readiness of the Marine Corps.
      1. -6
        5 November 2018 14: 31
        And what is the IDF’s alertness, shoe expert?
  10. +17
    5 November 2018 09: 01
    It is not necessary to discuss the author, but the problem that was raised in his article.
    Or maybe she, the problem with the Marine Corps does not exist?
    Pecking a person asking uncomfortable questions is easy.
    But to solve the problem .......
    1. -21
      5 November 2018 09: 20
      I wonder how you are going to personally solve the issues of the Marine Corps, share the recipe smile not for us to resolve these issues. And even more so not similar authors. In such a tone, you can talk with the wind in the field, only he will not hear you. Useless talk on this site if issues are not resolved. There is someone to engage in our army. If all the critics are so cool, what are they writing articles about, and not in the army, solving issues? They would go there and correct what they saw there. All this is a couch dvizhuha, from which no good.
      1. +11
        5 November 2018 09: 38
        There is a lot of truth in your words. The solution to the problem may depend on many factors about which we, visitors to the site, do not even have an idea. But the author of the article, it seems to me, has a sore soul for the cause, and not for somehow promoting the writing of problematic articles. And attack him for raising a hot topic, like comme il faut.
        1. -25
          5 November 2018 09: 48
          I wonder where you saw the soul there? In custom blacking of everything?
      2. +7
        5 November 2018 09: 56
        Chatter on this site
        - What are you actually doing here? exactly this bully
      3. +12
        5 November 2018 10: 22
        Quote: stalki
        Useless talk on this site if issues are not resolved. There is someone to engage in our army. If all the critics are so cool, what are they writing articles about, and not in the army, solving issues? They would go there and correct what they saw there. All this is a couch dvizhuha, from which no good.

        Well, blow into the army and correct that you write comments here? :))))
  11. +5
    5 November 2018 09: 22
    Guys, the question is: if our military doctrine is defensive, where are we going to land amphibious assault forces? Do not be too lazy to unfold the map and see. Only local, and even then it is doubtful. The fact is that sea, and even land, landing troops are landed only with superiority (or better, superiority) in the air. Let's look at the map again and see where we (in the event of a conflict) can achieve it? These are the simple questions asked by those who made decisions about the "optimization" of the aircraft. Add to this also the modest budget possibilities. So we are trying to achieve a reasonable balance.
    1. +11
      5 November 2018 09: 59
      Quote: konstantin68
      if our military doctrine is defensive, where are we going to land amphibious assault?

      It’s interesting, when the U.S. ILC begins to seize the islands of the Kuril ridge, how will we free them?
      Partisans on fishing seiners? Also about the islands in the North. In the Baltic, there are also enough of them. Or, let’s say, we are a continental power, we do not need the Fatherland of Severnaya Zemlya, the island of Sakhalin, the Kuril ridge. Although yes, we also have a nuclear club, with which we will blur out for any reason, and the whole world is in ruins.
      1. -3
        5 November 2018 10: 15
        Quote: man in the street
        US begins to capture the Kuril Islands

        They simply do not need to be allowed into OUR territory. There are other tools to defend our territory. They are both cheaper and more angry.
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 10: 17
          Quote: konstantin68
          They simply don’t need to be allowed into our territory

          On each island by division?
          1. -4
            5 November 2018 10: 19
            Quote: man in the street
            Quote: konstantin68
            They simply don’t need to be allowed into our territory

            On each island by division?

            Even if this is so, then it will be cheaper and bloodless than then repel them. Although this, of course, is very exaggerated.
  12. -4
    5 November 2018 09: 43
    Well, Andrei, well, gives! That is not the last article, that's all - we open the kingstones, dry the oars, break the shoulder straps and give up .. To the Chinese or anyone else.
    Well, you can't "open up problems, who doesn't have them? Otherwise, the people will really get the impression that a skiff, a kirdyk, everything is gone.
    1. +12
      5 November 2018 10: 00
      So this is not an “impression”, but a reality. If the empire was exchanged for jeans, then it was necessary to sit evenly and not shine. And then, against the background of oil of 100, some noblemen suddenly imagined themselves to be equal "partners", their imperial ambitions woke up with a bare backside
      1. +1
        5 November 2018 19: 05
        comments worthy of granite
        briefly but succinctly describes all of today's reality ...
  13. -4
    5 November 2018 10: 00
    somehow pessimistic .... and a dim, dull retelling of someone’s articles, it’s clear that the situation on the topic under discussion is imperfect ... but the ideal is fundamentally unattainable, and it is unreasonable to equal the smooth and politically correct materials of anonymous analysts, the author sincerely worries for the existing problems and shortcomings ...., well, there are ..., there are ..., but he does not notice at all that the shortcomings are a continuation of the advantages. yes bad .... but not horror, horror, horror !!!!!!
    1. +9
      5 November 2018 10: 17
      Quote: wooja
      somehow pessimistic ....

      Andrei did not express his opinion, did not comment on anything. He simply outlined the situation as it is, according to his information. He did not even comment on whether this is good or bad. What claims to it?
      1. +1
        5 November 2018 10: 24
        immediately claim ..., just the impression of the text, his point of view is understandable ... but maybe there are other points of view, and his point of view is one of many ...
        1. +2
          5 November 2018 10: 45
          Quote: wooja
          maybe there are other points of view

          So write ...
    2. +3
      5 November 2018 13: 28
      Quote: wooja
      and muddy, dull retelling of someone’s articles

      Well, tell me, Dima, whose :) You just accused me of plagiarism, so confirm your words. Well, at least something.
      1. -3
        5 November 2018 13: 56
        Retelling is not plagiarism yet ... but it’s not your problem ... it’s just comparing the square with the green ... your article ended as soon as you wrote about the different tasks of the marines of the two countries ... and fogged up the goals of the Russian Marine Corps, naturally the question arises of a sad future ... in this fog, there are too many common places ... if this is an attempt at analysis, then it’s very average, but not worse, to fill up with TTX figures ...., as it’s not serious. ..
        1. +2
          5 November 2018 15: 03
          Dim, you stop this verbiage with numerous ellipsis, and squeeze out at least something in essence. For example - links to articles that I "retold".
          Quote: wooja
          and dimly lit the goals of the domestic marines

          So give me "non-foggy" goals, you can, I know :))))) Come on, say at least something on the merits of the issue.
          1. -4
            5 November 2018 15: 21
            I can’t give links to articles, I just don’t remember them, and I never noted them, just accept as a fact that there is nothing new .... The foggy goals ?, they are more visible to the General Staff, but even based on what you write, you can say that the Marine Corps is a branch of the Airborne Forces with naval specialization, I am not a military specialist or even an amateur, and therefore I do not make conclusions about a sad future, although I can understand such conclusions from a human point of view.
            1. +1
              6 November 2018 16: 29
              Deeply erroneous opinion. There is nothing in common, except for the DShB, in which he personally served and which appeared at the Black Sea Fleet in 1982. We were called the Airborne Forces of the Marine Corps, although we did not have airborne landing equipment. The remaining units had nothing to do with the airborne forces, the specifics are completely different.
              PS My opinion refers to the Soviet time of the 80s, I will not judge the current state
              1. +1
                6 November 2018 18: 07
                a balanced opinion, too much is unclear, and to make conclusions about sad or rosy .... at the sofa level is somehow ridiculous, and a completely fair remark - there is no information about the current state. As there is no real knowledge on the topic
  14. +3
    5 November 2018 10: 31
    Quote: stalki
    I wonder how you are going to personally solve the issues of the Marine Corps, share the recipe smile not for us to resolve these issues. And even more so not similar authors. In such a tone, you can talk with the wind in the field, only he will not hear you. Useless talk on this site if issues are not resolved. There is someone to engage in our army. If all the critics are so cool, what are they writing articles about, and not in the army, solving issues? They would go there and correct what they saw there. All this is a couch dvizhuha, from which no good.

    So why are you "rubbing" on this "couch" site? Join the army, fix problems.
    1. -8
      5 November 2018 13: 09
      I just read the news and more or less follow the assessments in the political and military spheres in order to be aware of, so I am here, as you put it, "coward", and not only here. And solving military issues is not my profile, there is someone to decide. At my level, I cope and do not climb where there is no place for me. And I just insert komenty when I already want to scatter swearing words about some expert opinions. You know I scold myself, why are there any pros to speak out here. It is necessary to react less to the sofa war.
  15. +7
    5 November 2018 10: 32
    Thank you so much to the author! There were easy fears smile that the coastal troops will miss the author, but fears have not come true!
    hi
    Hooray! good
  16. +9
    5 November 2018 10: 38
    Sofa experts have a primitive, clip-like consciousness. They need a beautiful, juicy picture, or rather a series of such pictures. Here on the footage of the su-57, a thunderstorm of the sky and the most dangerous correctable bomb with a tactical ulcer, and nothing 57th in the troops will be a link, all the same we will defeat all. And on the next frame Armata, a beautifully twisting tower, and after it with-400, also as many as 2 pieces, etc. The first 2 comments, but not the last ones from the same series, saw in the pictures of fit fighters in zero camouflage, a polished bayonet-knife, a tattered tank and that’s it. Victory, no problem! It’s beautiful. Excuse me, I’m also probably hiring liberals - window dressing is all. Unfortunately, in the Russian army, window dressing and problems are more than combat readiness. And the article is good, it reveals these problems.
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 10: 48
      Quote: UMA-UMA
      also as much as 2 pcs, etc.

      But how much? 2000? 3000?
      1. +5
        5 November 2018 11: 07
        Quote: konstantin68
        how much? 2000? 3000?

        As much as you like. Equipment itself does not fight.

        Need divisionsarmed with this technique alert, and understanding what their role in the fightingwhat will be interaction with other units. What kind of unit will it be - a battalion or an army - is the second question.

        I note that the ostentatious flights of the Su-57, for example, did not suggest an answer to such a question. If the Raptor, they say, operates a flying telephone station in Syria, then what the Su-57 did there is a shhhh secret.
    2. -2
      5 November 2018 11: 03
      Such sofa experts should strangle themselves with grief, from the fact that there are so many problems and our army is "sheer window dressing"
    3. 0
      5 November 2018 11: 28
      Yes. A show and bragging, designed for a simpleton, not delving into details. Not seeing further text.
    4. -1
      5 November 2018 11: 30
      With 400 in the first place there are already quite a lot, and rearmament continues. Last week, the contract for this year was completely implemented. Window dressing? And what excuse me is this understood? Show what is not? Or show what needs to be shown? In fact, no displays of equipment, especially new ones, are carried out without counterintelligence and their instructions. This topic is always under control and you will not see what they do not want.
      1. +3
        5 November 2018 12: 02
        One air defense system does not plug all holes. It is not the air defense condition that is pretty much sagged after 2000 that is discussed. About 15 thousand officers and ensigns are shortened in 2008-2012. The condition is discussed. Marine Corps prospects for November 2018.
        1. -1
          5 November 2018 12: 29
          This is a response to a person’s specific comment about 2 s -400 no more. Perspectives are foolish to discuss without knowing the plans and tasks for these compounds at least 5 years in advance. So far, at present, their number is quite enough for the tasks that are set for them. What they lack is amphibious machines, specially designed for their tasks. All the same, armored personnel carriers are extremely weak. They need BMP capable of over-the-horizon landing. The tanks returned to them all the same the T-80 BVM is a very good car.
          1. 0
            5 November 2018 13: 53
            They even can’t equip reconnaissance troops with 75% counter-soldiers. About half of the squad commanders are conscripts. To ensure an over-the-horizon landing, first of all, air strikes are needed. Which is not even planned. kilo. Against an undisguised enemy armed with a light rifleman.
            1. -5
              5 November 2018 14: 34
              Sound the issue of the call of religious Jews in the IDF.
            2. 0
              5 November 2018 15: 41
              Yes, how do you know that?))) manning PP since when did they begin to discuss in the public domain?)
              1. -1
                5 November 2018 16: 30
                Read the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda and the materials of the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation carefully. Reading the text, and not getting confused in footcloths.
        2. 0
          8 November 2018 15: 31
          First you need to increase the staffing of existing MP formations by 2 times and stimulate officers and contractors with higher salaries, apartments, careers, etc. pluses for conscientious service in the MP. For example, to increase the ceilings of ranks by posts - such as a platoon commander - captain, company commander - major, battalion commander - colonel (with the Academy), regiment commander - major general, commander - lieutenant general. With stringent requirements for physical and tactical training. For all military branches and services as part of the MP division.
  17. -4
    5 November 2018 11: 00
    Honestly, the author pondered for a long time whether it was worth undertaking, because, alas, he did not seriously study the development of this kind of troops of the Russian Navy.

    After such words, it was not worth it to scribble the paper!
  18. -4
    5 November 2018 11: 10
    Unfortunately, the marine corps appeared in the Second World War, and it was because of the huge number of unnecessary surface ships that the unnecessary personnel appeared and used them on the ground, and began to use them on land, and it was rather bad, because they had neither ground preparation nor sufficient weapons according to the land charter, not even the protective color of the uniform ... the Peterhof landing is a living and sad example. Today, the MP occupies its niche, has specific weapons and ships. The BDKs will serve for a long time and there is no need to build new ones for another 20 years, for the seas they are too big, there you need to switch to the MDK, there are good projects and head samples in the air cavity, small series. For the oceans, it is enough to have 4 BDKs per fleet, that is, the existing BDKs will last another 30 years, two completely new and three quite young, and they have a lifespan of up to 50 years. The concept of the Russian Navy is much smarter than that of the amers, because their UDC is a mass grave and gives small portions of landing troops for the convenience of its extermination .....
    1. +2
      5 November 2018 14: 53
      The size of the camera dock on the Vasd udk is 81x15.5m. It easily accommodates 4lcu.k each carries up to 180 tons, these are 3 tanks or 400 people. Desanta. What kind of platoon landing request plus the uk.on air link, he never walks alone, but only as part of the expeditionary force. how can you put this mass grave to the bottom?
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 21: 01
        rocket or torpedo
    2. +2
      6 November 2018 11: 11
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Unfortunately, the marine corps appeared in the Second World War, and it was because of the huge number of unnecessary surface ships that the unnecessary personnel appeared and used them on the ground, and began to use them on land, and it was rather bad, because they had neither ground preparation nor sufficient weapons according to the land charter, not even the protective color of the uniform ... the Peterhof landing is a living and sad example.

      The failure of the Peterhof landing was not to blame for the poor preparation of yesterday's Red Navy, but for the ugly preparation of the operation by the Navy. From the documents that have survived to this day, it is clear that the naval command generally counted on any organized resistance of the enemy. Communication, interaction with the artillery of the fleet was not established (although the fleet was fine with various means of communication and personnel for them). Hatchery cost the paratroopers dearly.
      In general, managing to carry out an unsuccessful landing operation is actually in direct line of sight from the main base of the fleet, in the fire zone of your coastal and naval artillery - you need to try very hard.
      Quote: vladimir1155
      The concept of the Russian Navy is much smarter than that of the amers, because their UDC is a mass grave and gives small portions of landing troops for the convenience of its extermination .....

      Yeah ... and our BDK supply troops on the coastal defense of the enemy immediately in portions of one battalion, tightly packed in a slow-moving large-sized tin box. Even a mortar battery can reach a coastal BDK.
      1. +1
        7 November 2018 21: 03
        Well, five battalions in half an hour (in each fleet about 4 BDKs and MDKs are still available) this is still not a platoon, and even with armored personnel carriers and tanks with fire support of the BDKs, aviation and RTOs ......
  19. +1
    5 November 2018 11: 44
    In his indestructible desire to optimize everything that is possible and that cannot be doubly optimized, he managed to disband our only 55 division of the Marine Corps, having reduced its staff and turned it into the 155 separate marine brigade.

    That division existed only on paper, the EMNIP had only one PG battalion in the 165th regiment, as well as almost everything else in the Far East. I remember how, with a peace of mind, they recruited from the entire Pacific Fleet a combined battalion of MP in Chechnya.
    There was also the only 22nd DMDS in the Navy at the Pacific Fleet, for the transportation and landing of the still (Soviet-era) almost full-blooded 55th division.
    1. +1
      5 November 2018 12: 25
      Quote: surovts.valery
      the only one in the Navy 22-I DMDS

      what And the 39-I DiMDS KChF was probably the 2-I only in the Navy?
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 16: 23
        Quote: Serg65
        Quote: surovts.valery
        the only one in the Navy 22-I DMDS

        what And the 39-I DiMDS KChF was probably the 2-I only in the Navy?

        Honestly, I didn't know! Sorry. In terms of the number of combat units, the current Black Sea BRDK covers all the others in other fleets, especially in terms of the number of 1171's. It seems that all the members of the fleet are alive, except for the Azarov, which was inherited by the non-brothers.
        But the fact is that in those years, even a simple number of landing ships on the Black Sea Fleet was clearly inferior to that on the Pacific Fleet, in order to also be called a division (due to the large number of KFOR?), I'm not even talking about the presence of two "rhinos" on the Pacific Fleet, the DCVP etc.
        Here, my IMHO, somehow compared the composition at the beginning of the 2000s of the Novorossiysk OVR brigade (in an open infe on the Internet) and our TOF division of the OVR (after all the optimizations and reductions), so ours is more of the brigade there. The states of formations in our southern and western fleets pulled up and inflated under star positions.
  20. +3
    5 November 2018 12: 13
    The Russian Navy marine corps is one of the most combat-ready combat arms of the Russian Armed Forces, which has high mobility and armament, is capable of solving combat missions anywhere in the world, and refers to units of high alert on equal footing with the airborne forces.
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 13: 49
      -and relate to units of high alert on equal terms with the airborne forces .-

      Directly the same. Makarov and Serdyukov failed to do this. The PG is 1 hour after the Battle Alert signal, the chakt decreases to the appointed point or to the border. Manned and armed. The first problem is about 50% incomplete. Even intelligence officers cannot complete 75% contract workers.
      1. -3
        5 November 2018 14: 37
        You learned about this from the handlers in the buffet in the General Staff building, right?
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 16: 29
          Do not neglect communication with military personnel. Read the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda. Carefully listen to the generals Kartapolov, Konashenkov.
      2. +1
        5 November 2018 15: 04
        In general, there are standards for raising the alarm. And certainly, not one part will be deployed in one hour to enter the area. In an hour, at best, a couple of platoons equipped and charged can be sent to the deployment line or to the concentration area, given that if the unit is considered high alert, i.e., military equipment is loaded, loaded with ammunition.
        1. -2
          5 November 2018 16: 28
          Especially when 50% of officers, warrant officers and conscripts are under-staffed.
  21. exo
    +10
    5 November 2018 12: 37
    In principle, such a series of articles can be written on all types of armed forces of the Russian Federation. Excluding the strategic component and air defense (more precisely, more or less acceptable rates of renewal of missile systems).
    Even the airborne forces, which show themselves well (due to the almost complete lack of opposing forces in the enemy in Syria), have a huge pile of problems. Airborne forces, without a sufficient number of military transport aircraft. With a ridiculous number of newly produced and with a vague prospect of replacing the An-12, in the long run.
    Thanks to the author. Although reading the truth is bitter.
    1. +8
      5 November 2018 14: 05
      Quote: exo
      Excluding strategic component

      Underwater strategists Andrei came at the beginning of the cycle. And just in this part was very optimistic. For the remaining components of the triad, the state does not say which is better.
      Quote: exo
      and air defense

      Ask Bongo that he wrote such a thing there about air defense, that the site administration refused to spread it.
      Quote: exo
      Even VKS who show themselves well

      Um ...
      Quote: exo
      due to the almost complete lack of opposing forces in the enemy in Syria
      1. +8
        5 November 2018 15: 08
        By the way, Sergey Linnik, for the materials that were nevertheless managed to be uploaded - special thanks. I even cited part of his works as an example to political science students during my practice as excellent analytics using modern mass media and interactive maps on the subject of international politics and international relations.
      2. +1
        6 November 2018 13: 40
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Underwater strategists Andrei came at the beginning of the cycle. And just in this part was very optimistic.

        As for the strategists themselves, yes, there was optimism. But the naval strategic component of the nuclear triad is not limited to SSBNs alone - these submarines need to be withdrawn from the base and protected at sea from enemy "hunters". But with this, judging by the same series of articles, we have horror-horror-horror ... especially at the Pacific Fleet - 0 modern TSC-IM and 1 combat-ready SSNS.
        1. 0
          6 November 2018 16: 38
          Quote: Alexey RA
          According to the strategists themselves - yes, there was optimism.

          Not too defensible.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          But the naval strategic component of the nuclear triad is not limited to SSBNs alone - these submarines need to be withdrawn from the base and protected at sea from enemy "hunters"

          If in general - prevent their preventive destruction.
          The trump card of the underwater components of the triad is secrecy, which guarantees retaliation. This secrecy consists of a million things (starting, by the way, with KOH, if the boat is at the base - do not care what noise it has) and at the moment it is absent. There are no hopes that the situation will be corrected in the foreseeable future (several decades). To support the underwater component of the triad of the Russian Federation is not able. At least if the probable opponent is the USA and the company.
  22. +1
    5 November 2018 12: 44
    We need to seriously increase the number of marine corps and its equipment. In a War that is possibly close, if it is conventional, the role of the Marine Corps will be colossal.
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 13: 47
      - We need to seriously increase the number of marines -

      If you call a little more than one hundred thousand twice a year, and only for a year, then there will be no talk of any increase in the Marine Corps. It is necessary to call not only anybody, but fit ones for health reasons.
  23. +2
    5 November 2018 13: 18
    In his indestructible desire to optimize everything that is possible and that cannot be doubly optimized, he managed to disband our only 55 division of the Marine Corps, having reduced its staff and turned it into the 155 separate marine brigade.

    It is impossible to say on 100% that Serdyukov ruined the division. The division fell apart all the 90-00 years, accompanied by high-profile cases and the final blow was a strong shortage of the 2011-12 years, due to which the 59 Ump in Slavyanka depopulated by 99% and ceased to exist, like the 390 MP regiment.
    The history of the 390 shelf is well described here:
    http://mptaifun.ru/blog/istorija_390_polka_morskoj_pekhoty_slavjanka/2015-06-21-59
  24. +5
    5 November 2018 13: 21
    Respect to Andrei and many thanks for the great work he has done! Our liberalists and pseudo-patriots are no longer accustomed to accurate, analytical, and evidence-based coverage of the state of things, hence the rejection of many facts from this article. Andrey, plus unconditional! good
  25. SIT
    +5
    5 November 2018 13: 52
    As a remark, I want to recall that the cost of the first 20 yachts of our oligarchs exceeds the cost of everything that was built for the Russian Navy over the past 10 years. This is where the money went for which it was possible to equip, including the Marine Corps, which would have to pay for it in their own lives if that happened.
    1. +2
      6 November 2018 11: 37
      and the amount of funds for the main church of Moscow Oblast? - Peter 1, who is cited as an example, was not afraid to melt the bells onto the cannon trunks - but not with our leaders :) - here it’s rather the other way around - they will get PD-50 and the proceeds from the sale for scrap will be allowed to go to church .. .
  26. +2
    5 November 2018 14: 08
    It is very strange to see such a large number of "upset" people in the comments. The article, in my opinion, is one of the most optimistic, many corners are smoothed out. In general, the name is Sad look into the future, but according to the BDK there is only a listing, without this very look into the future. This is where complete despondency is (BDK), but it has not been written about it. Dugong also seems to have some complaints. All this is not in the article. So I don’t understand everyone who writes about everything disappeared and sadness / longing. Autumn is working))
    I had only one question as a whole
    Peter I - today there are polar points of view on the role of this emperor in Russian history

    What is this polar point of view? Can you please give more details.
    1. +9
      5 November 2018 15: 08
      Quote: DarkMatter
      In general, the name is Sad look into the future, and according to the BDK there is only an enumeration, without this very look into the future.

      not invested, and so the article is very large, so we will write in the sequel :)))
      Quote: DarkMatter
      What is this polar point of view? Can you please give more details.

      On the one hand, there is an opinion that under Peter the country made a giant breakthrough into a brighter future. On the other hand, it is believed that Peter, through his reforms, directed the country along a completely wrong path of development, since he basically copied the form but not the content from European countries.
      Now literally all his achievements are being disputed. How much truth is there - I can’t judge, but I think that not too much
      1. +4
        5 November 2018 16: 08
        "mainly the form but not the content in European countries." ///
        ----
        Peter the Great could not copy the contents, as this would mean self-removal from government. In London, he was very interested in ships and guns, but, being invited to Parliament, he did not even understand what it was. I decided that this was a fun joke and fun for the king of England. He did not believe that the Parliament passed laws and ruled the country without the participation of the king.
      2. +1
        5 November 2018 16: 27
        Thank you, Andrey. We wait fellow
        By the way, I liked the pictures in the article.

        As it is not even surprising, now everything is being disputed, I would like to read the arguments adequate. It is interesting to know which paths of development are then considered correct? But was there a leap? Was. Politics, diplomacy, "window to Europe". It is clear that everything cannot be done perfectly. The fleet was built, the war was won. But what is already there, the Swedes were reassured so that they were forever deleted from the list of world (at least European) superpowers bully
        1. +3
          5 November 2018 16: 31
          Quote: DarkMatter
          It is interesting to know which development paths are then considered correct?

          2 options are usually seen
          1) Westernization of the country according to the system, but not in a chaotic way. Peter was an impulsive man, changing what he wanted and what he saw, what he understood - as a result of which his reforms in places were half-hearted and very costly for the state - after Peter the state was ruined, although the economy was noticeably strengthened. It may well be that Peter as a result would have carried out all the volume of reforms necessary for Westernization .... But because of the randomness, he did not have enough time and money, but somehow it did not work out with the heirs.
          2) Following the original Russian Special Way. I’ll omit the details, because for each he is seen in his own way ...

          In general, this is a separate topic, not in the comments about the Marines to discuss it wink
          1. +3
            5 November 2018 16: 53
            Oh, this Special Russian Way. In my humble opinion, I believe that there is nothing shameful in learning or adopting positive experiences elsewhere. Otherwise, then the paper cannot be used, and written exclusively on birch bark. Well, nonsense. In general, if you choose this path, it is possible to combine traditions, your own path and the achievements of other peoples and countries so as not to step on the already rake by someone and at the same time not be in the tail of global progress. But this is from the realm of fiction, at least the vector of this I do not see at all in our leadership.

            According to Peter I will say this. Naturally, such grandiose personalities or events cannot be described in one word. It is also quite obvious that it is practically impossible to carry out all the large-scale reforms, and even all with a positive result. Therefore, it is necessary to consider the result of the government as a whole, and not separately. In general, in my opinion, there was more benefit. There were more pluses than minuses. And significantly. I find it difficult to discuss about the ruined state, I don't know the numbers. And there you need to compare, for example, with two predecessors, two after him, do not forget to impose some important events of the times of their reigns, which were large enough and definitely influenced the results (figures) of the reign of Peter himself or the reign of other kings in order to build a sufficiently accurate map taking into account all the nuances. Unfortunately, I don't have such a detailed analysis at hand. If there is one, I would read it with pleasure. In the meantime, "by eye", I consider the polar point of view about the negative result of his rule, well, to put it mildly, not very consistent.

            I agree, although this usually does not stop anyone here on the site and people talk on sometimes completely abstract topics.
            1. +6
              5 November 2018 17: 10
              Quote: DarkMatter
              Oh, this Special Russian Way. In my humble opinion, I believe that there is nothing shameful in learning or adopting positive experiences elsewhere. Otherwise, then the paper cannot be used, and written exclusively on birch bark. Well, nonsense.

              That I somewhere about the same opinion. PIU has long set the teeth on edge and is already causing a sharp rejection - how childish it looks, a childish desire "if only not like people."
              Quote: DarkMatter
              I agree, although this usually does not stop anyone here on the site and people talk on sometimes completely abstract topics.

              Yes, it’s clear, I just have experience communicating specifically on this topic smile I am Aishnik, and I thought a lot about this topic and discussed with colleagues. The discussion was usually delayed, because the too controversial ruler, this Peter the Great, on the one hand needed reforms, strengthening the army, increasing treasury revenues, on the other hand, exhaustion of the state, half of the reforms, a significant increase in serfdom and tax burden, and much more. In simple terms, Peter achieved a lot by conducting total mobilization of the state, but with total mobilization it was possible to achieve even more, and with less loss, pursue Peter systematic policy. Therefore, his estimates are very ambiguous. My opinion on this subject I have already indicated above - IMHO, Peter took the right vector, but because of his character and understanding, he could not crank out all the necessary volume of reforms in life, spending a breakthrough of resources, and after his death was not found worthy heir who would continue his work. Yes, his achievements were great, but the price was very high, and the first stones were laid in the foundation of the future decline of the Russian Empire at the time of its rise under Peter, by itself - not on purpose, but it happened. And so it often happens - preconditions for the future decline of powers begin to take shape at the time of their rise, a kind of growth disease, which eventually, if they are not noticed and not cured, become chronic, and as a result seriously weaken the entire body.
              1. +3
                5 November 2018 19: 30
                And so it often happens - preconditions for the future decline of powers begin to take shape at the time of their rise, a kind of growth disease, which eventually, if they are not noticed and not cured, become chronic, and as a result seriously weaken the entire body.

                Well said, I think so.
        2. +2
          5 November 2018 23: 48
          Eugene, and hello again!
          Quote: DarkMatter
          Somehow it’s not even surprising, now they dispute anything, I would like to read adequate arguments

          Alas, I did not seriously deal with this historical period, so I will refrain :)))) But it’s very interesting to talk with Arthur Praetor
    2. +2
      5 November 2018 17: 25
      Quote: DarkMatter
      What is this polar point of view? Can you please give more details.

      Did you skip the history of Russia at school? Petra has been watered by Mr for 200 years without stopping.
      1. Supporters of the "special way" - for the fact that he began to play ape from Europe. Lapti, domes, Russia that we have lost.
      2. Liberals - for being a geek and cannibal. Stalin of his time. Peter could not, did not want, was a categorical adversary difficulties European society. He did not build Europe, but the eastern despotism with guns and wigs.
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 19: 38
        Cherry Nine
        I don’t remember such a thing at school to tell about 200 years of watering Peter without stopping. Some negative results were certainly most likely voiced, but no more.
        In addition, I was interested to know what Andrew had in mind. The benefit of the Internet allows a direct dialogue with the author, which I am very pleased.
  27. +1
    5 November 2018 14: 12
    that's what reputation means)

    “Today, I want to believe that the worst for our marines is already behind us. Numerically, it includes five brigades, one each in the Northern, Black Sea and Baltic fleets and two brigades in the Pacific Fleet, in addition, there are other, separate units, from the battalion and below. The total number of Russian marines is unknown, presumably about 12.

    In early 2018, finally, common sense prevailed in terms of equipping marines with tanks ... "

    Without panic fighters, the author writes that everything is not bad and will be better)
  28. -6
    5 November 2018 14: 15
    Tsarevna Nesmeyana and nothing more. "... Because, alas, I have not studied the development of this branch of the Russian Navy seriously." Then why was there a fence?
  29. 0
    5 November 2018 14: 59
    [quoteU tanks taken away from the marines] [/ quote]
    here, it seems, we need a footnote (note) on the MP tanks in each of the fleets, in particular, the Northern Fleet, at 61 brmp, at that time, the tank company (PT and T-80) remained, the rest are in storage. Well, this is for zabugornikov)), and so, close cooperation with Alma Mater)) - 200msbr, which has full-blooded TB.
    the article is positive and not bad regarding misinformation of enemies.
  30. Ber
    -5
    5 November 2018 15: 04
    1.
    We will not consider in detail the history of the emergence of this kind of troops in our Fatherland,

    The Russian-Byzantine war of the 907 of the year is the legendary campaign of Prince Oleg of Kiev to Constantinople.
    The campaign is described in detail in the "Tale of Bygone Years" (beginning of the XII century) and ended with the signing of a peace treaty in the 907 year. Widely known in Russian society for the phrase: "Prophetic Oleg nailed his shield on the gates of Constantinople"

    This is the first documented use of the marine corps.

    In those days, the Varangians, along with the Vikings, were Assy of war, both on land and at sea.
    Their tactics can be applied even today. The Varangians and Vikings used boarding boards with cross-slats to jump from ship to ship, even during battles on land.
    When suddenly the front lines put forward boarding boards and ran across them through the first lines of the enemy. Mostly berserkers were jumping.

    So now, if during the demonstration we take the Nth number of boards, specially trained demonstrators can jump over the first lines of the police armed with shields and batons, scattering tangles from strings and fishing hooks .......
    And then what the American instructors taught in Kiev on the Maidan the top of amateurism laughing well, how are the children ..
    In short, they will answer us for Kiev (Brother2) laughing laughing

    2,
    Modern representatives of their class, while moving, as well as Dugongs, use the principle of an air cavity.


    Drakars also used this principle, laying a board on the board, capturing air under the bottom of the boat.
    1. +8
      5 November 2018 15: 34
      Quote: Ber
      The Russian-Byzantine war of the 907 of the year is the legendary campaign of Prince Oleg of Kiev to Constantinople.
      The campaign is described in detail in the "Tale of Bygone Years" (beginning of the XII century) and ended with the signing of a peace treaty in the 907 year. Widely known in Russian society for the phrase: "Prophetic Oleg nailed his shield on the gates of Constantinople"

      This is the first documented use of the marine corps.

      Pity the owl laughing The troops of the time of Prince Oleg are not the marines. they are typical warriors of that time, which can be conventionally called "generalists". With the same success, it can be argued that the troops of Prince Oleg were the first motorized rifle troops in Russia - well, why, both there and there infantry, and that in fact there is a huge difference between them - these are trifles.

      Senior Marine Corps taken regular formations that were created and assigned to the Navy or were listed in the army, but were transferred to the needs of using the fleet (primarily galleys). Seniority is taken not according to the epibates of Ancient Greece, not according to the squad of Prince Oleg, and not according to Roman legionnaires who took ships on board before the birth of Christ. Therefore, the first marines of Spain are sea thirds, attributed to the Neapolitan galleys. Therefore, the first Marines of the Netherlands are the "sea companies" of the time of De Ruiter, and not the crews of the ships of the sea geese. Therefore, the first marines of Russia are the formations of Peter the Great, and not the warriors of the times of Tsar Gorokh.
      1. Ber
        -7
        5 November 2018 19: 05
        swear word in your address ..... lol

        And also by the berserk jumpers, the first police lines in helmets with shields and clubs are localized with special spinigami (bogor) telescopically telescoping and hooks clutching two meter-long gobies by the legs ............... then five weak the men are pulled out on the asphalt for about 8 meters and a gap is formed in the place where there are messes, so in 20 minutes any administrative building is taken anywhere in the world.
        Protection is only the use of firearms under the cameras of online journalists.

        I didn’t even read you child of an obscenity.))) ......... you even served in the army, And ????
        1. +8
          5 November 2018 19: 18
          Fuck some FWM! That's why I rarely comment on articles, so as not to mess with those here, in which conceit replaced logic wassat To know history, one must serve in the army. Any man on a gun boat is the marines. The way EVERYWHERE and ALWAYS measures the seniority of one or another kind of troops — yes, no matter what the left heel wanted — that means it is! And this stream of consciousness about berserk jumpers, very much in the subject, yes. And at the same time, I am a child of the absurd))
          1. Ber
            0
            6 November 2018 06: 23
            Don’t be offended, it’s so hot. I'm sorry ... litter ..
          2. +3
            6 November 2018 20: 39
            And at the same time, I am a child of the absurd))

            Please pay attention - Obsurda. It is time for Andrey to write an article: "Russian-born - a sad look into the future" or "Unified State Exam - the road to hell, laid out with good intentions"
        2. +3
          5 November 2018 19: 26
          Quote: Ber
          I didn’t even read you child of an obsurd.)))

          In vain. Would learn a lot
          1. Ber
            0
            6 November 2018 06: 23
            I read well
          2. Ber
            0
            6 November 2018 06: 30
            It’s just that I myself served in the navy, urgently, a sailor, but next to the legends the size of which is up to the sky, from which there was only a rusty gene crocodile in the playground, and a horizontal bar. There was such a school of Saturn, we were told a bayan a lot about them, 18 years old, we were still children, in general, for what I bought it, I sold it.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. -19
    5 November 2018 16: 09
    Hosped and ... again, Andreyka crawled out of Chelyaba
    ... vsyo pichalnaya all snored ... game
  33. exo
    +2
    5 November 2018 16: 42
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: exo
    Excluding strategic component

    Underwater strategists Andrei came at the beginning of the cycle. And just in this part was very optimistic. For the remaining components of the triad, the state does not say which is better.
    Quote: exo
    and air defense

    Ask Bongo that he wrote such a thing there about air defense, that the site administration refused to spread it.
    Quote: exo
    Even VKS who show themselves well

    Um ...
    Quote: exo
    due to the almost complete lack of opposing forces in the enemy in Syria

    Of course, I had in mind the ground component, Strategic Missile Forces. As for the fleet, including SSBNs, everything is clear: restrained optimism. Unlike the rest of the fleet's forces and means. After the sinking of the dock, now we will add the already dead ship repair.
    About the videoconferencing: bombing, quite accurate. Judging by official data. If, at barmaley, there were at least MANPADS, in large quantities, the situation for sure, has changed.
    About air defense, one has to believe the victorious reports of officials: slowly new complexes are coming into operation. Although, I will believe much more in Bongo.
    1. +1
      5 November 2018 16: 51
      "About the Aerospace Forces: bomb strikes, quite accurate. Judging by the official data" ////
      ----
      Judging by the video (if you carefully look at the stops) - not bad: + - 10 m with cabs and gauges. And + - 30 m - FABami.
      This is not enough to defeat the bunkers, but quite enough for open areas and the destruction of buildings occupied by militants.
    2. +8
      5 November 2018 17: 41
      Quote: exo
      Of course, I mean the ground component, Strategic Missile Forces

      Only Yars remained, but he is not eternal. Sarmat is still on the tests that will be in the series - no one will say. Especially no one will say that in terms of production, partners managed to do it through sanctions.
      Quote: exo
      As for the fleet, including SSBNs, everything is clear: restrained optimism

      SSBN delivered completely. Their essence is to ensure guaranteed retaliation through secrecy. The fleet is not able to provide stealth, and frankly speaking, it is not always possible to leave the base.
      What about the fleet except SSBN - nothing to talk about. Take an interest in commissioning, say, Australia. And in what time frame.
      Quote: exo
      VKS: bombing, accurate enough

      Um, I understand you correctly that the successful work of the air forces is this bombing of cities without air defense?
      Quote: exo
      About air defense, we have to believe the victorious reports of officials:

      Sorry, but why should they believe? Here, about an unprecedented increase in salaries against the backdrop of record low inflation recently, too, believe it?
  34. +3
    5 November 2018 16: 43
    Andrei hi I am pleased to read your articles, especially since the topic is a little close to me. In addition to all the misadventures, I can only supplement. At the end of 90, 77ogbrmp was formed on CFL. At that time it was considered the most combat-ready division of the region. At that time, the concept of professional The army, in particular the 725bmp, was 70 percent equipped with double basses. The command staff of most of the units had experience conducting how it could have been a counter-terrorist operation. First, there was BTGR in Chechnya, then it was cut to RTG. In 2008, the brigade was disbanded to optimize, only 414 RPM remained in its place, although now they are talking about relocating CFF to Kaspiysk and about deploying a new unit.
  35. 0
    5 November 2018 17: 14
    Honestly, the author pondered for a long time whether it was worth undertaking, because, alas, he did not seriously study the development of this kind of troops of the Russian Navy.

    People who spoke of themselves in the third person were always alarmed ...
    1. +1
      6 November 2018 20: 44
      This is your personal phobia. Among those talking about themselves in the third person, there were very sensible people :)
      1. +1
        7 November 2018 20: 40
        Quote: MooH
        This is your personal phobia. Among those talking about themselves in the third person, there were very sensible people :)

        Actually, in classical psychology, this is a diagnosis ... Especially when the "author" ten times in the text mentions himself in the third person ... Here either a fuck or a shiz ... there is no third ...
        1. 0
          8 November 2018 06: 43
          Quote: AllXVahhaB
          Especially when the "author" ten times in the text

          The author understands the academic style. Do not find fault with trifles.
  36. 0
    5 November 2018 17: 50
    The article is very informative and with a clear urge to think about it, but the ways of solving the problem proposed by the author, as it seems to me, do not intersect with objective reality.

    Therefore, I will write my own subjective opinion not claiming the truth.
    The Airborne Forces and Airborne Forces intersect very strongly in tasks and their specifics, and it has long been overdue to unite into a single kind of landing troops. Depending on the task, they will be able to produce landing from military transport aircraft, from ships, or by helicopter.
    Reducing the number of increasing quality.
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 19: 14
      It is unlikely to succeed request despite the fact that the tasks are similar. if there is a danger of landing, the enemy turns the coast into an excellent fortified area with anti-landing barriers, with echelon defense. carrying out sabotage on the enemy's supply lines. for this as. Such heavy weapons, in principle, unnecessarily. If honestly, I don’t quite understand the conversion of this kind into a separate type of troops, when their entry into the ground forces is more obvious.
      1. +2
        5 November 2018 20: 09
        Nowadays, an attempt to land in the fortified area is a priori doomed to failure.
        "Capturing the landing zone and expanding the bridgehead in the shortest possible time" is a common task for any airborne combat arms.
        Throwing into the deep rear in our time is as ridiculous an idea as storming a fortified area.
    2. 0
      5 November 2018 19: 42
      Quote: Corn
      The article is very informative and with a clear urge to think about it, but the ways of solving the problem proposed by the author, as it seems to me, do not intersect with objective reality.

      Therefore, I will write my own subjective opinion not claiming the truth.
      The Airborne Forces and Airborne Forces intersect very strongly in tasks and their specifics, and it has long been overdue to unite into a single kind of landing troops. Depending on the task, they will be able to produce landing from military transport aircraft, from ships, or by helicopter.
      Reducing the number of increasing quality.

      Unreal. Judging by intelligence. MCI is an SPN team. But completely different local tasks, different staff, different specialties. And so, of course, all work together on their own RU and GRU, in the end. But to combine them - it is necessary for such a universal soldier that you can shoot a movie laughing
      In my time, even the training of a soldier of the Airborne Forces and DShB was very different.
      1. +2
        5 November 2018 20: 20
        Starting his service in one Airborne Division, he continued to serve in another, already at the place of residence, and ended up in a separate intelligence brigade.
        Everywhere the same thing, absolutely. There were also colleagues from the Marine Corps, judging by the stories and they have exactly the same thing, after the transfer, without any adaptation, they felt at home.
        Initially, the differences were in technique and correspondingly narrow specifics, but now the airborne technique swims quite well and is able to force obstacles, and the Marines already practice airborne landing, I think that it makes no sense to make a motley menagerie at all.
  37. 0
    5 November 2018 19: 11
    - "Nona" in the Marine Corps ... (?)
    - As I remember, there were "floats" there. PT76 - amphibious tank.
    1. +3
      5 November 2018 23: 41
      PT-76 was in service with reconnaissance. Neither reconnaissance nor anti-tankers ever went to combat service. A company of T-55 tanks was loaded on the BDK.
  38. exo
    -2
    5 November 2018 19: 37
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Um, I understand you correctly that the successful work of the air forces is this bombing of cities without air defense?

    The minimum civilian casualties during such bombing is a good result. At the same time, since the Syrian army has conquered a considerable part of its territory, it means that military targets are hit, in sufficient volume for this. At the same time, I do not claim that in the VKS, everything is fine.
    As for the fleet and domestic shipbuilding, I completely agree with you. Dead end. For many years to go.
  39. 0
    5 November 2018 20: 06
    I’ll clarify one question.
    "... a rather dubious organizational measure for the marines was adopted back in the USSR in 1989 - the formation of the Coastal Forces of the Navy. On the one hand, it looked logical - to bring under a single command all the forces involved in the defense of the coast, that is, BRAV and marines ... "

    This is not true. He served in the 810 brigade of the Black Sea Fleet 1982-84 and the MP already belonged to BRAV. The commander (or commander) of the BRAV and the MP was a major general of the Marine Corps, I no longer remember the name.
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 23: 36
      I remembered - Head of the Brav and MP.
  40. -10
    5 November 2018 20: 27
    The all-creeper article is another UG. Campaign here now hohloskakuasy rule the ball. judging by the number of minuses, for those who adequately assess this nonsense, a whole herd works here.
  41. -5
    5 November 2018 20: 46
    Airborne troops are offensive troops. Russia has a defense military doctrine; paratroopers are not needed, they just need to spend money on them. It used to plan a war in the European theater and beyond the English Channel. And now Russia is a peaceful country.
    1. +1
      5 November 2018 23: 38
      Quite an amateurish look in the style of friendship-booster.
      For example, the MP Black Sea Fleet brigade was designed to capture the straits in the event of an attempt to block them for the Black Sea Fleet ships. In my opinion, this task is now quite relevant, what do you think?
  42. -1
    5 November 2018 21: 47
    Quote: vindigo
    US Marines 1000 local Zulus in Somalia shot and completed the task. We would have lost like that. In the North Caucasus, we are exchanging 2 special forces for 1 yesterday's ram.

    "B" - balabol. Tell your tales to the guys that you took the presidential palace in Grozny. Then, if you are alive, share your impressions.
    1. +4
      5 November 2018 22: 29
      Quote: sds127
      Tell your tales to the guys who took the presidential palace in Grozny

      Is it the one who stormed without blocking? When did Dudaev and Maskhadov leave for Sunzha with all his coeds?
      Who then was shot before the formation, do not remind? Maybe someone was given a reprimand? Quarterly bonuses deprived? Huh?
  43. +4
    5 November 2018 22: 12
    Dear Author! A couple of comments and additions :)

    1. BTR-82A is not so bad. Ergonomics improved, the landing compartment is sheathed with anti-shatter mats. Unlike the BTR-80, it can withstand circular fire from a 12,7 mm machine gun. And at the expense of mines, the BTR-80/82, with a mine blasting under the wheel, gives a good chance for the landing to survive. Undermining under the bottom - yes, bad. Well, from undermining 10 kg of landmine, no bottom or riding on armor will save. Nevertheless, this machine (which entered the troops under Serdyukov contrary to, and not thanks to him (they managed to conclude a state contract at the time of his arrival)) is a good wheeled infantry fighting vehicle.

    2. In the early 90s, the USSR / RF planned to transfer the MP to the BMP-3F instead of the old T-55 and PT-76. According to the plans db BMP-3F battalions will be formed, whose personnel in peacetime be represented exclusively by crews of armored vehicles (mechvod, gunner and commander). In wartime, such battalions deployed to full-fledged units by mobilizing troops. Unfortunately, the problems of financing and reform of Serdyukov left the marines without tanks and BMP-3F (which were exported only to Indonesia).
    I don’t remember the source of information about the "downsized battalions", it seems courageous, but this is not certain. You have to search.

    3. The Octopus-SD was originally planned as a light tank - a PT platform for SV, VDV and MP. In the latter case, they wanted to replace the PT-76. But ... PT-76 was removed from service, and Octopus has so far entered only in limited numbers in the Airborne Forces.
  44. -6
    5 November 2018 23: 26
    One thing is not clear why the author wrote this opus?
  45. +4
    6 November 2018 00: 30
    It turned out to be a good topic! hi
    173 comments at the moment, hurts the live audience winked .
    The bright idea that for a war on the border of the environment, specially trained and equipped troops are needed, capable of quickly finding themselves where violence needs to be "personalized" (not only the ability to turn the enemy into radioactive ash and the subsequent flight to paradise are powerful modern armed forces winked ), with difficulty, but begins to fit in the heads! And that even in a defensive war on its territory it may be necessary to land troops, not to mention cases of the need for rapid movement of troops.
    And these same heads do not fit the idea that a person may not be a "uryakalka" or "all-consuming" on "the allowance of the pro-Western liberals", but simply (although this is not easy hi ) able to collect, analyze information and draw conclusions from it (while still being able to express his thoughts in an interesting way). The idea that even articles in publicly available sources, such as specialized sites, influence the information agenda among "decision-makers" is also not easy to put in your head. All in all, thanks to the author of this series!
    It is good that in the comments a story has surfaced with the "ambiguous" reaction of some at the Pacific Fleet to the "first Chechen war" and about subsequent withdrawals. And the opinion that "it is inappropriate to use the MP in non-maritime directions" also did not appear on 05.11.18, it was in the early 90s. But "we were convinced in our own skin how important highly professional, well-trained troops are, and that they, quite possibly, will have to be sent into battle in the wrong place and not in the way it was originally planned."
    Probably, in the next article, in addition to the bright and bright future of the BV, issues of landing support will be considered (152 mm guns are very far now recourse and 130 mm guns may also not be close to the landing site, remember, there were experiments with firing 82 mm mortars from the decks of ships ...).
    In general, thanks to Andrey from Chelyabinsk once again for the articles and thanks to the VO administration for the fact that among the hmm, "materials" (site rules do not allow other words) on this site there are still such authors writing on modern topics as "Andrey from Chelyabinsk "and" Bongo ".
    soldier
    1. 0
      6 November 2018 20: 48
      There are two left. It was a lot more.
  46. 0
    6 November 2018 09: 19
    How do these authors write here? Yes, soon there will be nothing of what they arm from the word at all! Or die all! Or modify the system for transferring metallic hydrogen over a distance! Bunch and Bach ... All ....
  47. +6
    6 November 2018 09: 19
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: sds127
    Tell your tales to the guys who took the presidential palace in Grozny

    Is it the one who stormed without blocking? When did Dudaev and Maskhadov leave for Sunzha with all his coeds?
    Who then was shot before the formation, do not remind? Maybe someone was given a reprimand? Quarterly bonuses deprived? Huh?


    Always "touched" by experts in the "assault" of the presidential palace in Grozny in 1995 .....
    The fact is that there was NO such an assault!
    There was an assault on the adjacent "green" quarters - finishing taking the marines from the Baltic Sea (the closest house to the palace was taken by the units of Oleg Silkunov (died), Mokryshev and Sergei Sheiko (GR), "Council of Ministers" - Marines "northerners" (on the flank they still seem a company of motorized riflemen from the Totsk "peacekeeping" regiment worked.) There were no other units around at the time the palace was handed over.
    For Sunzha, Basayev crawled out of the palace along the damaged bridge with personal protection from his teip. The others, in order to cover up his salvation, he threw to break through towards the Friendship of Nations square. It seems that the night of 19 to 20 was. Colonels, thinking that this was a counterattack, caused the fire of all Praznichny mortars on the avenue.
    When in the morning the intelligence of the "northerners" came running, popping into the empty palace at the headquarters of "Lake" on the way, I was just there with a report. Plyushakov then took the Andreev flag and, taking several soldiers, went with the "northerners" to the palace (empty Karl!) And hung the flag on the 2nd floor.
    Basayev for "miraculous salvation" - he was declared a "bloodline" of two teips - which suffered the greatest losses during a breakthrough into the industrial region (how huge they were later told by the locals at the friendship of peoples, where for 10 days he was the "quasi commandant" of the quarter.
    From this and almost suicidal "raid on Budenovsk." After his success and the conclusion of a profitable truce - "for heroism" Basayev was removed from "bloodshed".
    ........ And I will try to write my comments to Andrey's article later, he has a number of inaccuracies there, though not very significant. And here on Skuratov, Andrei does not need to "roll a barrel" - he is a very competent person and respected by all the marines who served under his command.
    1. +1
      6 November 2018 09: 45
      Quote: UltraRed
      And here on Skuratov, Andrei does not need to "roll a barrel" - he is a very competent person and respected by all the marines who served under his command.

      Yes, in fact, I don’t download him, but I have seen such an opinion on the Internet, and therefore I am writing. And if a knowledgeable person refutes - that’s wonderful :)))
      Thanks for the comment and information, I will know! hi
  48. +4
    6 November 2018 10: 24
    As for the officers of the "refuseniks" in the first Chechen war. Not in the know what was in the Pacific Fleet, but in the Baltic - one company commander and two platoonmen refused to go. However, there was also a general who fell ill in time ....... :) There were no special "organizational conclusions". They fired "quietly" and that's it ........... The situation was psychologically very difficult and tense due to the ambiguity of the political situation in Chechnya, uncertainty in their own state-political leadership, "anti-war" hysteria in a number of media , and most importantly - because of the understanding by the officers of the inadequacy of the level of b / n l / s, first of all, transferred to us from the ships for the expansion of the battalion staff "in war", due to the minimum time allocated for their training. , and on the topic "battle in the city" - classes were conducted by one platoon in the entire battalion, for which your humble servant "got a hat", for "running ahead of the training program" ....... :)). It was for an extreme reason that one company commander did not go - personally, a brave man who passed through Afghanistan, he wanted to organize a "strike" in order to allocate more time for training the newly arrived personnel. His reasoning was - "I will not lead untrained people to death" .......
    There were also many "hesitant" (decisions in general were often made at meetings of officers and warrant officers of the port.) It happened that people jumped into the ramps of aircraft that were already starting to close ....... By the way, there were absolutely no complaints about them, - ("once I went - then everything else is not important"), besides, some of them were wounded, one was killed. But there were also volunteers from other divisions of the brigade ...
    Personally, I went when I realized that isolated refusals would not affect the dispatch of the battalion, instead of those who refused, they would appoint other commanders, and let someone "stranger" out of stupidity or thoughtlessness "put" one of "my" boys with whom I've been running through the fields for half a year already ........... This - "alignment" was categorically unacceptable to me ........
    Which by the way tried to convey to the "hesitant" ..........
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      6 November 2018 12: 22
      Yes, the time was incomprehensible ... today you carry out the order, and tomorrow for it ... And so "there were such rumors": "In the battles for Grozny, the first prisoners appeared, around whom battles unfolded with the participation of Moscow politicians, human rights activists and journalists. an unkind role in this was played by the then ombudsman for human rights in the Russian Federation S. Kovalev, who openly called on our soldiers to surrender under his powerful guarantees of release. "
  49. +2
    6 November 2018 12: 36
    I read articles of this author and always wonder how he analyzes the problem based only on data from open sources everywhere the author has a red thread that everything is bad in the fleet
    1. +4
      6 November 2018 16: 43
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      the author has a red thread that everything is bad in the fleet

      No, what are you.
      Russia still has the strongest fleet in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. Its fleet is an unattainable model for all CSTO countries.
      1. -3
        6 November 2018 16: 46
        The General Staff is not stupid now it is important the number of warheads with nuclear weapons and carriers
        1. +2
          6 November 2018 17: 50
          Quote: CommanderDIVA
          There are no fools in the General Staff

          If there were fools, it would be half the trouble.
          Quote: CommanderDIVA
          now the number of warheads with yao and carriers is important

          And where did the rest of the money go?
  50. +4
    6 November 2018 13: 11
    In wars, Russia needed a fleet to supply infantry. The fleet also has great revolutionary traditions ...
    1. +3
      6 November 2018 17: 15
      You forgot about "self-flooding at the harbor entrance".
      And by the way, what can we say if for more than a century now the most successful fleet ship is the minzag, which has sunk 2 EDBs. smile
  51. +2
    6 November 2018 17: 23
    Quote: bnm.99
    . Gentlemen moderators - don’t disgrace the site - send it to an eternal ban before it’s too late!!!


    I think they will sort it out without you. What got into you so much? Are you offended by Pechenga?


    Quote: ver_
    ... it’s up to you - you’ll take off your pants .. In a year you will teach .. Moreover, before landing there artillery will go through and aviation ..


    Excuse me, with all due respect, madam, but without pants among the brave Marines, is this from your own experience? (and it will be written with an I)

    Quote: ver_
    ... do not remember what the general said - * women still give birth .. * - this was the attitude - failure to fulfill the order ...


    We remember, Vera. Marshal Zhukov said this.

    Quote: Cherry Nine

    1. Not GRU MO, but still GU GSH.


    Colleague, the other day the Commander-in-Chief suggested returning the legal name - that means it will be returned. hi

    Quote: g1v2
    Andrey and I often disagree in our assessments, but I didn’t see any crying in this article. More or less normal review. No hysterics and hand wringing


    I agree with you, colleague Vitaly, your resume is useful. hi

    Thanks to Andrey, and we look forward to continuing. hi

    PS I just wonder where so much garbage comes from after this article?
    1. +1
      7 November 2018 11: 20
      Quote: Sea Cat
      We remember, Vera. Marshal Zhukov said this.

      More precisely, this was said by the literary character “Marshal Zhukov” from the well-known Weller.
      In addition, this phrase was attributed to Voroshilov, Budyonny, Skobelev, Menshikov and Peter the Great.
  52. -1
    6 November 2018 18: 14
    Quote: faiver
    There are few
    - but there are a lot of people like you, throwing any enemy caps

    Hooray, patriotism is a serious disease occurring against the background of intellectual degradation - the consequences of loss and damage are higher than expected - treatment is isolation from society, haloperidol.
  53. +1
    6 November 2018 21: 08
    Here it is, worldly glory has arrived. 200+ comments per day. It’s a pity that only 20-30 percent of them are worth reading. I give a surreal forecast: in a few years, fans of Andrei Kolobov will find out with fans of Sergei Linnik which of them is a natural Ramsey. I liked reading Andrey much more in a cozy narrow circle of connoisseurs of beauty :)))
    The article is in the best traditions of the respected author - not too deep, not too shallow, very clear and to the point. I think this is exactly how it should be written for a popular military resource. Thank you.
    1. 0
      6 November 2018 23: 49
      Quote: MooH
      Here it is, worldly glory has arrived. 200+ comments per day. It’s a pity that only 20-30 percent of them are worth reading. I give a surreal forecast: in a few years, fans of Andrei Kolobov will find out with fans of Sergei Linnik which of them is a natural Ramsey. I liked reading Andrey much more in a cozy narrow circle of connoisseurs of beauty :)))
      The article is in the best traditions of the respected author - not too deep, not too shallow, very clear and to the point. I think this is exactly how it should be written for a popular military resource. Thank you.

      Well, for a change, you can also use the article “Guaranteed Death. Which US tank became a suicide bomber machine?” read. Messenger of Mordovia, Kolobov and Linnik - more fun together! fellow
    2. 0
      7 November 2018 00: 06
      There is another topic that is waiting for its researcher, perhaps in the “Russian Navy” series, and I suppose it will hit +200 in the comments. "A cheerful look. Communication ships, expeditions or yachts flying the St. Andrew's flag." The types and quantities could not be counted, the topic is waiting for its researcher!
      "1. Piece 6, stotonniki:
      "Project 21270" Burevestnik "of a service and crew boat was developed at the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau." Burevestnik ", formally called" a service crew boat of project 21270 ", is actually a luxury motor yacht Purpose: service patrols of the Navy command and accompanying persons, reception of parades, delivery to the ships of the highest command personnel standing in the roadstead.
      The boat is equipped with equipment manufactured in Holland, Italy, France, Norway, Finland, Great Britain, Germany, USA, Australia. The determining factors in the choice of suppliers of marine equipment were the compact size and weight, as well as product quality. The main power plant is manufactured by MTU / Germany /. In order to achieve the quality of the finish of the case corresponding to the VIP standards, a large amount of putty-painting work was carried out using imported materials. Superior furniture for VIP-rooms / wheelhouse, salon, study, bedroom / finished with natural mahogany veneer.
      Source: http://bastion-opk.ru/project-21270/ OVT "WEAPON OF THE FATHERLAND" AVKarpenko "
      2. Several units (how much?) For 400 tons, and also "intended for the delivery of expeditions, inspectors and command personnel to the ships standing in the roadstead and for the deployment of command in the exercises." Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/1388n/ VTS "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko "".
      3. Several pieces of wassat about 1000 tons:
      "The replenishment of the" yacht "fleet of the Russian Navy continues. Https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2924420.html"
      4. Apparently, the flagship what 7500
      VOEVODA:
      https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3267818
      "Several interlocutors of Kommersant in the industry believe that in appearance (the image of the future ship is published on the official website of Yantar), the ship looks more like a yacht than an emergency rescue ship." There are no cranes, no crane beams - nothing. " , - one of the interlocutors of Kommersant is surprised. "This, of course, is a yacht - this is definitely perfect. Obviously, it is intended for cruises in the northern seas, "another source of Kommersant is sure.
      "In terms of architecture and the described functionality, this vessel is more reminiscent of the now popular Expedition Yacht type. The picture shows all the characteristic attributes. The design, though very utilitarian, does not match a full-fledged yacht for a private customer, but perhaps it was done on purpose. , there is every reason to believe that the true purpose of the vessel does not meet the stated goals, and it will be used for the specific needs of very high-ranking government officials, "says Alexander Bogdashevsky, director of Ameta LLC, which specializes in the construction of low-tonnage yachts for private customers."
      Appearance:
      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2891392.html
      Well, you need a little, to 188 million, residential blocks to finish. And about the tick, do not forget the tick ...
      http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/publ ... oenie.info
      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3339917.html"
  54. -1
    6 November 2018 22: 25
    Sputnik, the "Polar Bear" brigade is alive and well!!!
  55. +4
    7 November 2018 10: 57
    As long as there are such “cadres” at the top as Kudrin, Gref, Nabiulina, Chubais and other abominations... hmm... so to speak - “assistants” of the sun-faced one, then everything will only get worse and worse...
    They need to be kicked out of there before they completely ruin the country.
    Then the country and the army will begin to truly develop, and not stagnate...
    In the meantime, one frustration... request
    1. +2
      7 November 2018 21: 10
      I can’t limit myself to liking, I support with words, drive out the liberal economists and we’ll live
    2. 0
      8 November 2018 01: 35
      Kudrin is the father of the current financial system, in which almost all the money is collected in the center and then generously (or not generously, depending on who you choose) is given to the regions. That's what we're doing federally. soldier There are no complaints about him in this part request , now he watches how the money is spent (and where and how the material goes is not his business No. ).
      Gref - what bad did the person do who turned the savings banks into a normal bank with normal indicators? He recently carefully tried to raise the question of the effectiveness of the state. companies (who are interested, enter “Sberbank analyst Alexander Fek” into the search engine, read, watch, take anti-stress: light-filtered drinks , you have to take care of your heart) - so then he had to call everyone personally and apologize, so “thank you for being alive.” request
      Nabiullina - "the stability of the banking system and inflation." Well, price tags in stores are not rewritten every day, which is good. love Banking supervision... We enter these words into a search engine, see how suddenly sometimes banks come under “control” (loans were issued somewhere and were not returned... or “Moscow Banking Ring”, etc.) and how then Life is not easy for the shareholders and managers of these banks. We figure out “how much is it in aircraft carriers” and again take anti-stress (the main thing is to take care of your heart and not engage in self-destruction! drinks Yes ).
      Chubais - well, everything is clear about him, what should I write here? laughing
      The questions are not for them.
      1. 0
        8 November 2018 06: 50
        Quote: Wildcat
        The questions are not for them.

        To them too.

        You see, among the notorious “towers of the Kremlin”, my mother’s political scientists mainly distinguish a tower of crazy (if not swearing) trash (“siloviki”) and a tower of crazy accountants (“system liberals”). The first one deals mainly with lawlessness, the second one with optimization. Accordingly, the first increases the repressive capabilities of the regime, and the second resets its obligations to the population. The current state of medicine, education, infrastructure is for accountants. Pensions, by the way, are also their topic.
        Little of. As you correctly noted, the principle of federation was destroyed even before Beslan, by Kudrin and his budget policy. Similarly, municipal authorities.

        So there are questions. And more.
        1. 0
          8 November 2018 08: 51
          I have to disagree with you. In my opinion, the “2 towers” ​​model, one of which is the security forces, and the other is systemic liberals and both are crazy, does not correctly describe reality, since it assumes that these towers are not tools for control (by the way, they are quite adequate, it could have been worse feel , but maybe it’s better! what ) in their areas, but independent subjects. The “Politburo 2.0” model is most likely correct. The “siloviki” mainly carry out their duties, and cases of their committing various offenses simply become more often known due to the “information society”, when news, especially in visual form, instantly becomes available to an unlimited circle of people (and the reaction to these cases is also quite fast and sharp). “Accountants” are basically trying to “reduce” the budget (and make a “nest egg” in case of inevitable sanctions, “economic stability”, etc.), but “money itself does not become things” and the effect of recent injections of money by “accountants”, for example, in medicine (or in the police, which is now the police), to put it mildly, did not meet the costs. Moreover, the same Kudrin was removed from the government precisely because he tried to explain that “money will not become military assets.” Neither security officials nor accountants make final decisions about expenses, priorities and their volumes (although they influence them). The ax should not be blamed for the severed heads, and money should not be blamed for the purchase of the block.
          Our dear and beloved principle of federalism, enshrined in the Constitution (which we all love, respect and do not need to change), as well as the principle according to which municipal power is outside the state, give on our territory, where there are not just subjects federations, and separate republics created on a national basis, completely unprecedented consequences. Let me remind you that quite recently some entities were going to issue their own money (and issued coupons, without which you cannot buy goods), and some lived independently on the basis of the norms of religious law (as they understood it). And the Marine Corps hi I had to deal with the consequences of the principle “take as much sovereignty as you want.” So Kudrin and the principle “go to Moscow for money” is not the worst decision.
          1. +1
            8 November 2018 18: 55
            Quote: Wildcat
            So Kudrin and the principle “go to Moscow for money” is not the worst decision.

            Incompatible with federalism.
            Quote: Wildcat
            The Marine Corps had to deal with the consequences of the principle of “take as much sovereignty as you want.”

            She dealt with the consequences not of the introduction of this principle, but of its abolition.
            Quote: Wildcat
            completely unprecedented consequences

            The consequences are self-evident.
            Quote: Wildcat
            issue their own money (and issued coupons, without which you cannot buy goods)

            Are you remembering the late Soviet times, or what?
            Quote: Wildcat
            Neither security forces nor accountants make final decisions on expenses

            I am not a supporter of the concept of an omniscient and omnipotent Putin.
            Quote: Wildcat
            Kudrin was removed from the government precisely because he tried to explain that “money will not become military assets.”

            Who was he “trying to explain” to?
            Quote: Wildcat
            the effect of recent injections of money by “accountants”, for example into medicine (or into the police

            1. Don’t mix medicine with the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
            2. What are these “recent injections”, excuse me?
            Quote: Wildcat
            "Accountants" are basically trying to "balance" the budget (and make a "stash"

            Where did you get the idea that the task of the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank, which you mentioned here, is to “reduce the budget”? Now it has a surplus, mother oil and mistress devaluation helped, what next?
            Quote: Wildcat
            make a “stash” in case of inevitable sanctions, “economic stability”, etc.

            What’s interesting is the “stash” for them. Kudrina are aimed, first of all, at ensuring comfort for the regime, and not for the population. You won’t believe it, but his nest eggs were created to “guarantee the fulfillment of social obligations” (now they are being created for the second time, supposedly for the same thing). What were they spent on?
            Quote: Wildcat
            and cases of them committing various offenses are simply becoming known more often

            Does this mean that financial tricks become known less often? Perhaps your social media feed is more focused on the Media Zone than on business publications.
            Quote: Wildcat
            "Siloviki" mainly go about their duties

            Good deeds cannot be made famous.
            Quote: Wildcat
            The “Politburo 2.0” model is most likely correct

            Not even close to being true. The Politburo (more precisely, the Plenum of the Central Committee) had the legal opportunity to remove the Secretary General and elect a new one. There are no such structures in the Russian Federation.
            The EIV Yard model is more adequate, adjusted for the style of St. Petersburg in the 90s.
            Quote: Wildcat
            quite adequate, it could have been worse

            You're right. Glazyev for prime minister, Khazin for the Central Bank, give us Bolivarian socialism!
            Quote: Wildcat
            that these towers are not tools for control

            Not quite.
            1. 0
              8 November 2018 22: 35
              I am glad that we have the same opinion on the issue of socialism with a Bolivarian face! hi
              I undertake not to confuse the Ministry of Health with the Ministry of Internal Affairs! Obviously, you and I will not come to an agreement about federalism (its benefits or harm for Russia in its current form).
              On other issues, I’m afraid we won’t come to an agreement and this is probably not very important. I suggest you sit comfortably and wait for the author of the “Russian Navy” series to release a new article; maybe he’ll write something about the “yacht fleet”? I came across this topic by accident and at first I didn’t believe it - given the state of the fleet, it’s impossible to make “communication and expedition delivery ships” in such numbers; at least instead of a yacht, it’s possible to have a raid minesweeper belay ? Then I believed it, but I couldn’t count the yachtsam .
              1. 0
                13 November 2018 22: 20
                Hehe, today the “yachts and the Ministry of Internal Affairs” scandal began (well, we are not strong only in the Ministry of Internal Affairs soldier ), but the Ministry of Internal Affairs has a smaller tonnage and quantity - and in general, these are pitiful boats compared to the Ministry of Internal Affairs laughing .
                For those who are interested, we put “yacht” and “police” into a search engine, look, enjoy the superiority of our military (and protect our hearts with a light, filtered drinks ).
  56. +1
    7 November 2018 11: 39
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: Sea Cat
    We remember, Vera. Marshal Zhukov said this.

    More precisely, this was said by the literary character “Marshal Zhukov” from the well-known Weller.
    In addition, this phrase was attributed to Voroshilov, Budyonny, Skobelev, Menshikov and Peter the Great.


    Good afternoon, Alexey!

    Well, Voroshilov and Budyonny could easily, they and Zhukov are birds of a feather. But Skobelev definitely couldn’t, he had the wrong methods of combat and ABSOLUTELY the wrong upbringing. But under Peter and Menshikov, in my opinion, they didn’t even think about it, much less talk about it. What for? Serfdom - everything was natural and simple.
    Unfortunately, from memory I cannot cite a source in which there were “zhukov and women,” but this was definitely before Weller’s name became known in Russia. hi
    1. +1
      7 November 2018 17: 05
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Well, Voroshilov and Budyonny could easily, they and Zhukov are birds of a feather. But Skobelev definitely couldn’t, he had the wrong methods of combat and ABSOLUTELY the wrong upbringing.

      This is in vain - the same Zhukov was not at all some kind of butcher who did not take losses into account
    2. +1
      7 November 2018 19: 37
      Well, Voroshilov and Budyonny could easily, they and Zhukov are birds of a feather. But Skobelev definitely couldn’t
      And under Peter and Menshikov

      Neither one nor the other. The author of this phrase is Prince Condé the Great, winner of Rocroi.
  57. +1
    7 November 2018 14: 29
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: CommanderDIVA
    There are no fools in the General Staff

    If there were fools, it would be half the trouble.
    Quote: CommanderDIVA
    now the number of warheads with yao and carriers is important

    And where did the rest of the money go?

    Where's the money? Where, where - in ..... (in the chalet lol ).
    We type “rocket” and “chalet” into Google or any other search engine, read, watch, take a sedative (preferably light filtered drinks , you should abstain from strong drinks in such cases). The story of how good real estate is obtained from the money “saved” by relatives in the production of rockets, of course, infuriates, but is not surprising, this is not new.
    But the construction of yachts for the state. expense (and it would be fine at the expense of state corporations, otherwise at the expense of the Navy), when we are not building anything larger than a frigate (although... why aren’t we building? The Voevoda yacht is larger than a frigate (compare 5400 tons and 7500 tons.)) am .... I couldn’t even stupidly count the yachts (it turned out to be 7, but it seemed like more)!!!
  58. +1
    7 November 2018 17: 18
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Well, Voroshilov and Budyonny could easily, they and Zhukov are birds of a feather. But Skobelev definitely couldn’t, he had the wrong methods of combat and ABSOLUTELY the wrong upbringing.

    This is in vain - the same Zhukov was not at all some kind of butcher who did not take losses into account


    Oh, Andrey, if only... I have a beginning at the State Historical Museum. department was staff colonel G.A. Kolomiytsev (may he rest in peace). During the war he worked at the headquarters of Rokossovsky, Konev and Zhukov. He was simply in love with Rokossovsky, he respected Konev and thought highly of him, but about Zhukov everything is exactly the opposite. There was another man, also a colonel and also a staff officer, and the same thing about Zhukov. But there was only one chance meeting with him, but I worked with Kolomiytsev for several years. hi

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