Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse

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Prideful reports on missile attacks from the Caspian Sea and surrender the fleet more and more new ships and submarines hide from the public the real state of affairs in the Russian Navy, which can soon be described in just one word - disaster. And it is good if this catastrophe does not result in a military defeat commensurate with Tsushima.

Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse




Since the time of Nicholas I, the Navy periodically has problems with the doctrine of use and awareness of the necessity of what they do and why they exist. Being superimposed on each other, these two factors lead to the fact that the fleet begins to exist outside of any coherent and reasonable strategic concept, “grow by itself”, and develop according to the principle of “where the curve will take out”, regardless of which adversary he (if that) will have to face.

At best, the result of the problem was the waste in vain that the fleet had to bear in order to carry out the tasks assigned to it, the last vivid example of which was its participation in the Great Patriotic War. The fleet played a very important role in it, but the price paid was too high, and the damage inflicted on the enemy by his actions could have been much higher.

In the worst case, the Navy encountered an adversary, which he was absolutely not ready to confront, the latest example of which is the participation of the Navy in the Russian-Japanese war. The entire fleet, in addition to individual battles, was carried out by the fleet in the minority, and was almost completely lost, which, in addition to casualties, caused enormous political and economic costs to Russia.

Consider the position of the Navy now. Since Admiral Gorshkov, submarines have been the main striking force of the Navy at sea. Gorshkov, however, together with them also “performed” the powerful Marine missile-carrying aviation - MRA. About her a little later, and now let's move on to the boats. How powerful is our submarine fleet? Can he protect Russia from a hypothetical attack from the sea carried out by a strong adversary?

Unfortunately, the answer to this question is definitely not positive. At present, there are twenty-two multi-purpose submarines and submarines in the Navy armed with anti-ship cruise missiles (boats with ballistic missiles are not included in this number). Twenty-third - "Kazan", recently came to the test and not yet combat-ready. Of the twenty-two of these submarines listed as combat personnel, only ten are actually in the ranks. The twelve boats are in different stages of repair and modernization, and the prospects for their return to service are very vague. The state of the Russian military ship repair industry, unfortunately, does not allow one to accurately predict the dates on which repairs and modernization of submarines will be completed. At the same time, ships carrying combat service are getting old and sooner or later they will also need repair, and they need modernization now.

Moreover, submarines in service are significantly inferior to American submarines in noise, in the detection range of submarines, and in self-defense means — hydroacoustic counteraction systems, and, unfortunately, in torpedoes.

For a long time in the specialized press, mainly in the newspaper "VPK-Courier", articles are published describing the position of the Navy, both in terms of torpedoes and in the state of the sub-melt. For example, "Marine underwater powerlessness. The newest submarines of the Russian Navy are armed with antiques" or last "What to ask from" Ash ". This article contains an interesting fragment that is worth quoting, and to which you should pay attention:

In the management of the 57 Scud (Severomorsk-3) served one smart officer. Entered the VMA, there is a "wicked" in the topic "Window." He expounded his views on it to me, while studying at the Higher Military Academy, when I was in it for about a month, as Chairman of the State. commissions at the final examinations for students of the 6 (aviation) faculty. Then this officer served in the PLV department of the SF headquarters. He constantly himself "was asking" to go to the sea, collecting information on the "Window". Several times, on the go, we communicated at the fleet headquarters on the same subject.

Somewhere in a month after the regular gathering of the ships of the Northern Fleet, he “caught” me at the exit from the hall where the next weekly fleet planning took place and offered to see its analysis. We went to his office, where they were laid out numerous schemes and tracing paper. I am writing this in such detail that it is clear that he has done a great job, i.e. analyzed the tracing of the movement of all our boats, which took part in the gathering campaign, "wiring" all the foreign aircraft in the area of ​​operations of the fleet forces by means of malware.

Then participated 10 PL: 4 - diesel and 6 - atomic. Each boat was "cut" a large area from which she, for security reasons, should not have gone without a team. But, inside this area, her place could be any ("decision of the commander"), i.e. arbitrary.

On the first and third day of the forces in the sea, one Orion flew from the Annenes (Anneya) to the sea, which, flying over some broken route, went back. That clever officer, having analyzed, i.e. “putting” Orion’s route on the map and, from the submarine, the tracing of their actual location for the Orion’s span, made the unequivocal conclusion that using the Window or something else, but both all ten times the “turning points” of its actual track line were absolutely exactly above the actual place (at the time of the flight) of all 10 (!) boats. Those. for the first time in 1 an hour and 5 minutes, the second - in an 1 hour and 7 minutes, one plane covered all 10 PLs. From the words of this officer, he had seen more than once that the Orion was leaving, without any tacks, like on the square, threw one buoy, usually with a VIS (for “control”), and went on.

That is why I wrote that before this incident I had little faith in this “phenomenon”, but probably not we, but the Americans, but “brought this to the mind”.


These words belong to Lieutenant-General V.N. Sokerin, former commander of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Baltic Fleet, who served in the Northern Fleet during Soviet times, where the events described above took place. And the “Window” theme is a technology developed by the USSR Navy that allows aircraft to radar search for submarines in submerged (submerged) position according to the disturbances of the surface medium formed by movement (the radar detects “tracks” on the surface of the water that the current in the depths of the submarine). The events described in the quotation occurred in 1988, at the end of the Cold War. The Americans, judging by their activity and the way their anti-submarine aircraft operated from the end of the 80-s, were ahead of the USSR and massively introduced this technology into the design of their base patrol aircraft. And it is this that largely explains the phenomenal effectiveness of their search actions, which was described by Lieutenant-General Sokerin. Moreover, there are signs that since the beginning of the 90's, the Americans have mastered the methods of detecting submarines hiding under the ice. Fantasy? One of the “fathers” of the “Window” theme, an anti-submarine pilot from the Pacific Fleet, Alexander Semyonov stated this in direct text. Unfortunately, Semyonov ran over to the side of Ukraine and now serves as a potential opponent. It remains only to be glad that he has nothing to apply his knowledge and experience. And this, alas, is not fiction; in confirmation of what Semyonov was saying at the time, it is worth quoting another officer of the Navy, the most experienced anti-submarine, the commander of the anti-submarine ship, the captain of the first rank A. E. Soldatenkov:

... my friend Seryoga, commander of the anti-submarine helicopter KA-25 of the Northern ship-based fleet, made another training flight over the ice field. He repeatedly complained to his beloved wife that when flying over ice fields, the standard filters of the pilots' helmets of the Navy did not sufficiently protect the vision from the super-reflective surface of the ice. His beloved wife made incredible efforts, but for his birthday Seryoga received French-made polarizing light-protective glasses, which were used by pilots of Canadian Arctic Airlines (Air North).

Here he is flying in these glasses over a solid ice field and visually detects a contrasting (relative to the rest of the white field) circumference of a very large diameter. It seems to not understand what kind of optical phenomenon. The cabin glazing polarizes the light, the helmet's light filter contributes to polarization, plus imported light-protective glasses. But suddenly, almost in the center of the giant circle, ice is being cracked and the cabin of our nuclear submarine is shown!

... When the submarine is moving in a submerged position, a given depth of immersion is held by horizontal rudders, which are controlled by the boatswain or the autopilot. Accuracy of retention of a given stroke depth within ± 5 meters. That is, the gigantic mass of the metal (from 6000 to 33800 tons) makes vertical oscillations in depth, and its gravitational field also oscillates with the mass. Part of the gravitational field of the hull of the underwater ship, with the intensity detected by the measuring instruments, goes to the surface of the water, to the boundary of two media, water and air. Remember and excitement on the surface. This part of the gravitational field, at some equal level of its intensity, comes into resonant interaction with the near-surface layers of sea water and air. The interaction produces orientation of salt domains in the upper layers of water and air (as is well known at the water surface in the air, a high concentration of salty water droplets), which leads to the summation (a kind of modulation) of the strength of their electric fields. Hence the ring or elliptical shape of the figures on the radar screens. And the interaction of the summed electric fields with the electromagnetic field from the antennas of radar stations (absorption or reflection) leads to the appearance of ring or elliptical effects on the screens of the radar stations.

Opponents have a question: why the ring effect is not detected around large surface ships or ships? They, too, have a gravitational field? The answer is that the volume of the zone of interaction of the gravitational field of a surface ship with intensity for the desired resonant interaction with salt water is spatially too thin due to the angles of intersection of the intensity vectors of the fields close to 90 °. And in these volumes there are no conditions for resonant interaction with the electromagnetic field of the search radar, especially if they are of any other frequency range. For surface ships and ships, the effect may be observed briefly when they are sinking (sinking).

Thus, quite randomly, the frequency range of the radar stations of the over-the-horizon target designation of the “More” system was chosen so that it was at these frequencies that the interaction of the total electric field of the surface salt domains of the sea water modulated by the flickering gravitational field of large underwater objects with the electromagnetic field of the search radar was detected.

A particular case of the manifestation of the ring effect can be considered a change in the polarization of sunlight reflected from the ice cover, as my friend Seryoga observed during one of his flights over the ice through polarization pilot glasses. Ice, for all its hardness, has in its composition non-freezing cool-salted inclusions, which are affected by the gravitational field of the submarine, which is under the ice.


Having added all of the above, we have to admit that the ability to detect a submarine using radar and optical electronic monitoring of the surface of water or ice is a reality. And this reality, unfortunately, is completely negated by the modern domestic naval strategy.

We rely on submarines, ignoring the fact that anti-submarine planes of a potential enemy "see" them both under water and, possibly, under the ice. Not all modes, of course, and not always, and the search area must somehow be chosen, but the very fact of the existence of such an opportunity should have forced the Navy command to fundamentally reconsider its approaches to military construction, in particular, to providing combat services to the submarines, their support of surface ships and aircraft, including the ship.

In practice, everything was and remains absolutely wrong. The fact that our submarines are extremely vulnerable to basic enemy antisubmarine aviation during military construction is generally not taken into account. The facts of the fact that the enemy's boats exceed our submarines in the stealth, detection range and tactical and technical characteristics of the torpedo weapons - also. So for what huge public funds are spent on the sub-melt? So that he could be quickly drowned, with the loss of thousands of sailors and gigantic means?

The situation becomes simply horrible in its application to the naval component of the SNF. It is the submarines with ballistic missiles that are the most secretive component of our nuclear forces and the only carriers of nuclear weapons, which in theory can be hidden from the enemy. In practice, it turns out that it is almost impossible ...

So when John Lehman, the US Navy minister in the Reagan administration, argued that our submarines would not have survived the first days of the war had it startedHe was apparently not very far from the truth.

Some time ago, the Americans, who were keeping a truly grave silence about their achievements in the anti-submarine search, began to declassify materials related to this subject.

So, now the report is available online. "A RADAR METHOD FOR THE DETECTION OF SUBMERGED SUBMARINES" ("Radar method for detecting submerged submarines"), released by the US Naval Research Laboratory back in the year 1975. Although zone * .mil and is closed to Russian users, a simple anonymizer allows you to download the full text in English. The report shows that for the first time the Americans discovered the phenomenon of a residual mark on the surface, which is noticeable in the radar range, even during the Second World War. And only by the year 1975 came to a consensus that the effect is, and can be used. And after thirteen years, there was the same reconnaissance mission of the Orion ...

In theory, again, naval aviation and surface ships would have to work as a shield for strike submarines, giving them the opportunity to turn in relative safety from both enemy aircraft and enemy submarines, but alas, with surface ships and naval aviation the situation is even worse than with submarines, and they cannot help the boats.

Let's start with aviation

The USSR had a controversial position with naval aviation. The USSR Navy had a first-class coast-based strike aviation - Naval rocket-carrying aircraft, armed with Tu-16, Tu-22 and Tu-22M aircraft of various modifications capable of carrying anti-ship cruise missiles, both supersonic and subsonic. A little later, the missile-carrying Tu-95K-22, the “long arm” of the Navy, capable of striking surface ships over any point of the World Ocean was added to them. Their range and qualities of avionics made them truly global weapons (although not without flaws). Intelligence aviation was also at the highest level.

But in the part of the anti-submarine aviation, the USSR had a failure - the sighting and search systems of the aircraft did not provide a reliable search for foreign submarines, although aviation still gave a lot of detections. The “Window” theme mentioned above could change the situation, but alas, its practical results were obtained immediately before the collapse of the USSR, and after it new search methods received the most minimal development. Deck aircraft of the USSR Navy in a sense simply “did not have time” to grow. Coastal assault aircraft was not bad, but the fighter aircraft of the Navy experienced a shortage of modern aircraft.

But even these contradictory achievements in naval aviation were completely lost after the collapse of the USSR. The composition of anti-submarine aviation has declined many times, and, most unpleasantly, for all the post-Soviet years, nothing has been done to create a new aircraft to replace the old Be-12, Tu-142М and Il-38. The modernization of the IL-38 in the 38H variant with the Novella complex is a half-measure, with very limited efficiency, and the pace of aircraft modernization is simply depressing.

In fact, it is no exaggeration to say that we simply do not have anti-submarine aircraft. And this is in conditions when the aggregate number of modern submarines of the United States and its allies exceeds far over a hundred. No one thinks to correct the situation: neither the Navy command, nor the Ministry of Defense structures show any serious interest in solving the problem.

But from the anti-submarine aviation even survived the remnants that can be upgraded. But the MPA was eliminated completely. In 2010, all remaining Tu-22M aircraft in the Navy were withdrawn from the Navy and transferred to the Air Force. Now the fleet simply does not have a tool for delivering sudden massive strikes against enemy naval formations, there are no forces that can be maneuvered between theaters in a "big" war, strengthening our scattered fleets in turn. And, of course, there are no guarantees that the videoconferencing system will be perplexed by the issues of assistance to the fleet - the aims of the videoconferencing system in a big war are enough without any naval problems.

If the transfer of bombers to the Air Force is an excuse, in the end, these machines have not been manufactured for a long time and really become “worth their weight in gold”, there are really few of them left, then the actual destruction by the fleet of its own fighter aircraft cannot be called a crime. Five years ago, the Navy had large fighter forces, and, in contrast to the Soviet era, quite modern machines. MiG-31 and Su-27, repaired and in good condition. What is it all over? The fact that the command of the fleets simply ruined the air units entrusted to them, without even selecting kerosene for combat training. Suffice it to say that the fighter units of the Navy in Kamchatka in 2015 had a raid no more than 30 hours per person per year - almost like in the 90s. And this is when the war was already in Syria. The officers of the Navy headquarters openly, without embarrassment, said that without the pilots and their problems it would be easier and easier for them to serve. The result is logical - from 2017, fighter aircraft are being taken from the fleet, and slowly but surely they are transferring it “under the wing” of the newly created Air Force and Air Defense armies. First, the Northern Fleet passed through it, and in the 2018 year - the Pacific. This, of course, saved aviation connections for the future, but now it’s impossible to debug the necessary level of interaction between surface ships and aviation. However, this has never been done before.

But the American fighters from bases in Japan hung “on the tail” of the IL-38 over the Sea of ​​Okhotsk with each departure to search for submarines (in those cases when there were foreign submarines in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk)! How was it possible in such conditions to ruin the entrusted air units? But the Navy did it.

Relatively good things look in the maritime assault aviation regiments. Shelves fly, train, get into service new Su-30CM. That's just the potential of this platform, no one even tries to realize. If in the Indian Air Force Su-30 already allow heavy supersonic anti-ship missiles “Bramos”, in Russia no one is trying to equip naval Su-30CM with similar “Onyxes” in parameters, although this solution would dramatically increase the strike capabilities of the regiments and give them the opportunity to attack modern warships without entering their air defense zone. But this, apparently, no one needs, such work is not conducted, as well as there are no signs that the fleet will strengthen the assault air regiments by tanker aircraft or ARLO. The main weapon of the assault regiments is the X-35 rocket - a very good rocket, but with the breakthrough of the modern echeloned ship's air defense its range is not enough, you will have to substitute the enemy anti-aircraft missiles and the airplanes themselves too.

The new hypersonic rocket "Dagger" also visibly did not interest the naval comrades.

In fact, from the naval aviation of the times of the USSR only lumps remained, and one should not think that the VKS, which are forced to take on more and more “sea” tasks, will become a lifesaver here. They will not, because they have enough work on the ground, and because the naval aviation pilot is a person with extremely specific training and skills that the universal pilot of the VKS will not have to develop once.

It would be naive to think that in such conditions, things that are primarily associated with the fleet (with surface ships) go better. Do not go.

At present, there are thirty-one ships in the near and far sea, as well as oceanic zones (minus non-propelling ships that will not sail into the sea, but have not yet been withdrawn from service). In addition to the five corvettes of the 20380 project and four frigates (three 11356 and one 22350), all of them were laid back in the USSR. Of this amount, ten ships are now under repair, including the only aircraft carrier.

In fact, at present, the Northern Fleet can launch five surface ships of the 1 and 2 rank, including two cruisers, the Black Sea - five TFRs and frigates, the Pacific - six, including one cruiser, the Baltic Fleet - one TFR of the 11540 project and four corvettes 20380 project.

For comparison: Japan has thirty-seven URO combat ships in the ranks and three PLO helicopter carriers, France has twenty-three URO spacecraft and a full-fledged nuclear aircraft carrier.

Of course, we still have a certain number (less than thirty for the entire Navy) of small anti-submarine ships, small rocket ships, rocket boats and auxiliary ships and vessels. But they either cannot act in the far sea zone without large ships, or are necessary for organizing the defense of coastal waters, or both. The same grouping of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in Syria is not particularly protected by them, they cannot be fought near Hokkaido or Svalbard. The same new IRAs of the 21631 project, marked by launches of the “Calibrov”, have very limited seaworthiness, and have neither air defense, nor PLO weapons, or at least anti-torpedo protection.

At the same time, all the other large ships naturally “stuck” on repairs that have been going on for years, and whose deadlines are increasing all the time. Last news from the series - the flooding of the PD-50 floating dock, in which the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was stationed, with the aircraft carrier on the dock wall, and the consequences that were not voiced to the end. How much it will delay the recovery of Kuznetsov and complicate repairs of other ships and submarines, we can only guess.

At the same time, the intensive exploitation of ships still in progress will definitely lead to the almost complete development by many of them of a resource by about the 2020 year, before the warships now standing there will start to go out of repair. In fact, the fleet can halve its already modest combat strength, and ship repair already can not cope with the existing scope of work, after this volume grows by sixty percent, it will not cope even more. Especially considering the fact that some ships are already naturally brought “to the handle”, and the volume of work with them is promised to be enormous.

But the worst thing is that the Navy can not update the ship composition. Under the thunder of fanfare and brilliance of the main maritime parades, one “modest” fact left the attention of the public: Russia cannot build warships of the classes it needs. Almost none.

Consider in order

In the segment of small rocket ships (projects 21631 "Buyan-M" and 22800 "Karakurt"), the fleet was faced with the inability to obtain the necessary engines. "Buyan-M" was designed under the German MTU, but they became inaccessible due to the sanctions. Starting from the Vyshny Volochek ship, Chinese diesel engines are put on the ship, but they do not have the necessary technical characteristics for military use, which puts an end to stories a series of these ships. However, after the United States withdraws from the treaty on the elimination of short-range and medium-range missiles, there will be no sense in these ships anyway.

"Karakurt", which was conceived as more high-speed and seaworthy analogues of "Buyana-M" with more powerful weapons and domestic diesel engines, were left without engines in principle. PJSC “Zvezda”, which was supposed to supply for these ships the high-speed diesel engines М507, turned out to be simply incapable of producing them. At a pace that the plant makes engines now, the Karakurt series will be built for a decade, at a minimum. This crisis has led to such proposals as the delivery of ships with used engines that have been overhauled to the fleet. It must be admitted that there are quite grounds for such a tough decision.

All the other larger ships also fell into the “trap” of PJSC Zvezda, because its subsidiary, Zvezda-reduktor, is the only manufacturer of gearboxes in Russia for ship propulsion systems. And the problems there are the same as in diesel production. However, the plant that has already been studied and launched into a series of gearboxes can do with grief in half, albeit long and slowly. But with new designs - trouble. And yet it is precisely these that are required in order for Russia to build ships of the far sea zone — at least frigates.

We note that earlier the gearboxes for large ships were supplied by the Ukrainian enterprise Zorya-Mashproekt, but after the “euromaidan” and the Crimea, these supplies became impossible. Steel shipments of ship gas turbines were also impossible, but they were able to master their production in Russia, but there are no gearboxes, and the plant producing them feels bad.

As a result, the construction of warships in Russia in a reasonable time is now simply impossible.

All these unpleasant facts are superimposed on the inability of the Ministry of Defense and the command of the Navy to determine both the doctrine of military use and the type of ships available and needed for the construction.

About the fact that the giant money tumble into the sub-melt unable to protect itself has already been mentioned, but this is only part of the problem.

The fleet is completely devoid of anti-mine forces. There are no modern minesweepers, there are almost no crewless means, uninhabited anti-mine devices and there is almost no other equipment needed to combat mines. What is being built depends on the products of the Zvezda on the one hand, or does not meet modern requirements on the other. The mining of water areas near the naval bases will lead to the fact that ships and submarines will simply be locked up there, there is nothing to "clear" the exit. Only send a warship or a multi-purpose submarine to the mines in order to "pierce" the corridor with human lives. Well, the English on the Falklands prepared to do that, we are no worse than them, right?

Similarly, there are no anti-submarine forces capable of driving off enemy submarines from our bases. There are neither PLO corvettes in sufficient quantities, nor an underwater warning system of acceptable quality.

Only this year, modern guided torpedoes began to arrive in the fleet (this could have been done many years ago), but the submarine crews still lack experience in their use and the firing statistics are very small.

No work is being carried out on the modernization of anti-submarine helicopters, although there are good developments in lowered hydroacoustic stations, but they are called “do not make progress”.

About naval aviation has already been mentioned.

And in these conditions, the Navy finds nothing better than chasing chimeras.

For some reason, a series of inefficient and unsuitable for conducting combat operations of “patrol” ships of the 22160 project was built. They are positioned as anti-piracy, but a ship of such a displacement cannot work in the Indian Ocean - there is a risk that, due to unrest at sea, it will not be able to take back its boats and helicopters with marines back on board.

These ships do not possess armaments for conducting anti-submarine warfare or the ability to fight with enemy surface ships.

Why were they built then? Why did you spend money?

Another megaspiel is the 20386 project ship. About him already writtenand there are already a lot of potential technical risks in the project. Some of the potential flaws of this ship will appear to be irreparable. In this case, the "Star" and this ship cheated gear. The 6RP reducer provided by the design still does not exist in the metal, and it is not known when it will be, now the shipbuilders cautiously say that the GEM for the ship may be ready in the 2020 year ... but perhaps not.

Anyway, neither the delivery of the ship to the fleet in 2022, nor the laying of the second hull in 2018, will definitely be anymore.

All this, however, did not prevent the project developers and subsystems from mastering the huge budget allocated for the development and construction of this “vundervaffe”.

The development of the only series of ships that Russia could build, the 20380 corvettes, was halted by the will of someone in the Navy. And this is despite the fact that the modernization potential of the ships is far from being revealed, and there is simply no alternative. New ships of this project are not being laid, new ones that are better adapted to anti-submarine warfare or that have more effective air defense modifications are not being developed. It may be objected that we have to wait for years for these gearboxes, but at least they can be waited!

Well, the larger ships Russia either cannot build at all, or it can be very expensive and slow, for example, the frigates of the 22350 project. Very powerful for its class and very expensive ships, with serious combat power. However, this series of ships will not be built anymore either, everything will be limited to four copies.

About such things as intercabel unification, there is no need to say that we do not know what it is all about.

As well as about the development of naval underwater weapons, hydroacoustic countermeasures, hydroacoustic systems and much more, real work and production have long been replaced by ingenious schemes that allow you to master budgets without giving out anything in response, no prototypes, samples, etc. ., - only reports on the development work done, falsified test reports and endless restarts of this process. Net profit without production.

It should be borne in mind that this time all of the above is superimposed on the increased military danger for the Russian Federation, on the presence of an isolated theater of military operations, which is not accessible by land (Syria), on the fact that all our serious opponents today are countries with strong naval forces on sanctions that do not allow purchasing weapons and components abroad, in the coming demographic crisis of 2025-2030-s, when the army, navy and VKS will have to compete for the mobilization resource and people, to achieve growth in the fleet’s combat capabilities without growth consumption in it ...

This is actually an ideal storm, a system that has gone into singularity, into "dressing." All crisis phenomena in peak form and at the same time. The collapse of the fleet, the complete collapse of everything that still holds in it.

That's what awaits the Navy in the near future.

Will it survive the fleet? Is not a fact. But the worst thing would be if it was at this moment that the Navy would have to be used in combat operations. Tsushima will seem like a small river cruise against the backdrop of what may happen in the very next few years. Moreover, in order to “overgrown”, we will not necessarily fall into conflict with the United States: almost any more or less developed naval country will be able to break such an unstable system as the Russian Navy after 2020.

Who is to blame for the fact that all this has become possible?

This is undoubtedly the Ministry of Defense, including the Department for the Provision of the State Defense Order, the commanders of the Navy, the personnel of the Main Committee of the Navy responsible for shipbuilding, the Ministers of Defense - all for about the last 12-13 years.

Someone was flawed, someone closed his eyes to the flaws of some and direct sabotage of others, someone carried out this sabotage. And in the end we have what we have. The Military-Industrial Commission is unequivocally guilty, at least, all those who are in its composition responsible for shipbuilding.

Guilty and the FSB, because it did not keep track of the folding of truly mafia clans in the military-industrial complex, and the fact that the activities of some comrades in the “near-fleet” (we will not point the finger), “gives” to foreign special services.

What to do?

First, replace the people responsible for these failures with others. This is fundamentally important. Everyone who was behind bringing the fleet "to the handle" should go look for another place of work. Secondly, firmly, with the announcement of targets and the appointment of deadlines, to take up the elimination of all the above problems, not only in industry, but also in the Navy itself. Starting from answering the question “Why do we need a fleet in principle?” And ending with working out the interaction between aviation and surface ships. From restoring competences in shipbuilding to restoring order in the financing of the ROC of the fleet. From increasing the frequency of torpedo firing to giving naval aviation proper status within the fleet structure. With the research exercises necessary to determine the appearance and composition of the fleet of the future. With the improvement of funding in terms of the distribution of funds between the submarine, surface fleet and aircraft.

With the necessary changes in the regulatory framework and stripping those who do not want or can not work "for the result."

As quickly as possible - because there is no time left. He is not there at all, and very soon it will become obvious.

Probably, this time it will not be possible to do without “manual control” by the president and the minister of defense, this crisis itself will not “resolve”.

Otherwise, we will only have to wait for the next Tsushima and wait for it.

And very soon.
533 comments
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  1. +47
    3 November 2018 05: 40
    If everything is as it is told, it is time for our fleet to stock up for the future with spare means of salvation.
    1. +87
      3 November 2018 05: 56
      is it just the navy? all around the problem. A bright indicator of situations with "armature" and "SU-57", a mess in the space industry. the impression of sabotage, jerking from side to side, waste of gigantic funds, constant corruption scandals ... Modern Russia is not happy.
      1. +18
        3 November 2018 06: 40
        The main problem is the availability of qualified personnel. Bablo does not always defeat evil.
        1. +22
          3 November 2018 07: 10
          I read the article carefully. In recent days, more than once the material has come across on the Web that everything is lost and the Americans see our submarines under water.

          It turns out that these data are from 1988. 30 years have passed.

          It seems to me that these stuffing is a means of psychological pressure on society and on leadership. Especially - before the meeting of Putin and Trump.

          Two points from formal logic:

          1) No country will declassify any real military advantage over a likely enemy. Will keep him secret until the end.

          2) For 30 years, science has stepped far forward. And they could develop a remedy. Covering the body, etc., removing this effect.

          In conclusion, I’ll say yes, our fleet has many problems. But you cannot be strong everywhere. We cannot allow the construction of giant squadrons. We are not a sea power!
          1. +34
            3 November 2018 07: 47
            -We cannot let us build giant squadrons .-

            This is just not required. A balanced fleet is needed, capable of in fact, and not in promises, to pose a threat to the main enemy forces.
            1. +12
              3 November 2018 14: 56
              Then it really is a coastal defense fleet. There is no money and mind for more
              1. +26
                3 November 2018 16: 29
                Quote: Ilya-spb
                Yes, our fleet has many problems.


                we have one problem everywhere, and not only in the navy
                - this is the irresponsibility of officials

                and if responsibility comes, it’s so late that the situation is brought to the bottom


                the rest is derivatives

              2. +3
                3 November 2018 23: 23
                "There is no money and mind for more" I don’t know about money, but about problems with gray matter, this is obvious. : sm:
              3. +8
                4 November 2018 14: 30
                Quote: Lena363
                Then it really is a coastal defense fleet. There is no money and mind for more

                A matter of priority. We are either developing land detectors, strategic missile forces, missile defense and air defense systems, or the fleet. Since we are a continental country, the emphasis is more on the land component, and the financing of the fleet is on a residual basis.
                We need the balance of the fleet. It is the balance, not the quantity. But so far, without its SU, the construction of corvettes and frigates is unforgivably slow.
                The issue of building a submarine is also very painful. Ash trees are expensive and we build them extremely slowly. With Boreas, it’s a bit better, but only because they are carriers of ICBMs and are part of the country's nuclear triad.
                On non-nuclear submarines, too, not everything is rosy. The only boats that we learned to build quickly are Varshavyanki. But they have long required a replacement.
                The decline in ships is faster than the upgrade. Plus, the aging of ships has also not gone away. And in fact, if the situation does not change in the coming years, and the dynamics of the construction and commissioning of new ships in operation, we can remain without fleets capable of solving global tasks in the world.
                We have already remained not only from the USA and the EU in the matter of building warships, both surface and submarine, but also from China.
                1. 0
                  4 November 2018 20: 07
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  A matter of priority.

                  Over the past fifteen years, Russia has several times changed priorities in the vision of the fleet and its construction. It was announced that we did not need a distant sea zone, we did not need an ocean fleet, and vice versa. We do not need large formations of ships at distant frontiers. But time has shown that it turns out there is a need to have a search and strike grouping of ships in the far sea zone. This has recently been spoken about by both the Moscow Region and the Navy commander in chief. BUT, the Navy absorbs a lot of money without even going to sea. Only because of this, the fleet leaked naval aviation almost entirely. And the thing is that the MA will eventually become subordinate to the airborne forces, because the airborne forces have expanded the capabilities of the combat use of their formations. In addition, the general staff itself transferred the fleet to the category of providing offensive operations of the ground forces in the coastal zone. From here comes the main strategy for the construction of new ships. Many mistakes were made when adopting the rearmament program, which did not take into account the capabilities of shipyards. The fleet has a lot of problems, the article should not be about the fleet, but about the attitude of the country's top leadership to it. Here, even the commander in chief does not steer. And who rules yourself draw a conclusion.
          2. +32
            3 November 2018 07: 49
            -For 30 years, science has stepped far forward .-

            Watching whose science. Russian science eats up the last Soviet legacy. The defense projects of RUSNANO and Skolkovo failed.
          3. +33
            3 November 2018 08: 15
            In the text there is a link to the declassified report of the Naval Laboratory. And the testimony of officers of the Navy of the USSR, who saw the same effect.

            Alexander Semyonov, mentioned in the text, wrote a book about how this method was born in our country. Google "A. Semyonov. Non-tradition"
            1. -47
              3 November 2018 12: 54
              You shouldn't write your opuses anymore. One can sense in them a parallel with Navalny's "masterpieces" about "lobbying", and the already forgettable "fucked up all the polymers" ...
              Now many, like you, are trying to compose a negative with the thought: "how bad everything is with us." Everything is criticized en masse, and with elements of open nonsense. You have a lot of repetitive emotional text, with different variations and with the wording: "bad because bad", but there is no clear list of facts.
              And on the basis of this liquid (a lot of water) you bring a mountain of your accusations demanding to dismiss, punish, replace. And you don’t want to punish yourself here ...?
              1. +43
                3 November 2018 18: 12
                Write yourself about how everything is fine. About the mighty ocean fleet of Russia, only WITH THE LIST OF SHIPS ON THE GO, please.
              2. +2
                4 November 2018 05: 34
                Write yourself about ekranoplanes with hypersonic missiles, with a new coastal infrastructure capable of using nuclear missiles.
            2. -23
              3 November 2018 17: 27
              Maybe our apl will notice, but they will not catch up)
              1. +24
                3 November 2018 18: 12
                The plane will catch up. Torpedo from him too.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. +8
                    4 November 2018 12: 29
                    only jokes and it remains to tell ....
            3. +9
              4 November 2018 02: 47
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              In the text there is a link to the declassified report of the Naval Laboratory. And the testimony of officers of the Navy of the USSR, who saw the same effect.

              Sorry, m. I am a deer, but I did not see the document. This is an "alternative history".

              Quote: Author
              On the first and third days of finding the forces at sea, one Orion flew in from the ANNENES (Anneia) AS, which, having flown along some "broken" route, left back. That smart officer, having analyzed, i.e. "overlaying" the route of "movement" of "Orion" on the map and, obtained from the submarine, tracing copies of their actual location for the period of "flight" of the "Orions", made an unambiguous conclusion that using the "Window" or something "other",

              It's not real
              1. He (Orion) should have known the "squares" where the teachings, but he could not know) if they did not merge
              2.No AN / APN-153, and even more so AN / ASA-16 can not detect traces
              Quote: Author
              residual trace on the surface, noticeable in the radar range,
              . and certainly during the times of WW2, Americans could not detect these traces ..

              resonant interaction with the electromagnetic field of the search radar

              This is a very cool phrase. Can I chew?
              1. what is an EMF search radar (at a point
              as if "traces" on the surface of the water, which are left by a submarine going in the depths
              )?
              2.Resonance is "- frequency selective response vibrational system to a periodic external influence, which manifests itself in a sharp increase in the amplitude of stationary vibrations when the frequency of the external influence coincides with certain values ​​characteristic of this system. For linear oscillatory systems, the values ​​of resonance frequencies coincide with the frequencies of natural oscillations, and their number corresponds to the number of degrees of freedom .. "
              What is the frequency of the mythical circle and salt spray? coincides with the "search" radar?
              3.
              When precipitation occurs, the radar observes scattering signals from suspended in the air and moving particles (rain or snow), which are spatial targets distributed over space. In order to assess the intensity of reflected or scattered energy from rain in the direction of the radar, it is necessary to distinguish in space
              some volume and calculate the reflected energy. When an electromagnetic wave interacts with rain particles, the incident wave will absorb and scattered radiation will appear.
              1. +6
                4 November 2018 20: 33
                Quote: Aibolit
                What is the frequency of the mythical circle and salt spray? coincides with the "search" radar?

                The comrade cited in his article one of the unconventional methods for searching for submarines. I will not go into physics, but on the screen of a radar station on Il-38 aircraft in particular, one could observe the so-called flare-torus. Very clearly it could be distinguished in the photographs during photocontrol. I myself took part in research flights on Mi-14 helicopters, but the result was not very good, basically something like a torus could be seen only after the development of a photocontrol film after the flight. The Be-12 is the same. Perhaps this is due to the diameter of the radar screen, not very large. We conducted studies at altitudes of 3000 meters or more. The main methods have not been accepted. It remained a non-tradition, although in the higher officer classes we studied it. Last time in the 2nd-3rd years, they were engaged in non-tradition, but already on the Ka-27. After that I no longer flew to the submarine, I performed other tasks. That is, a search for new submarine methods is underway, it all depends on funding.
                1. +4
                  4 November 2018 23: 00
                  Quote: Letun_64
                  the so-called flare tor. Very clearly it could be distinguished in the photographs during photocontrol.

                  It’s terribly interesting (I’m not joking). Can be more:
                  -height of flight of IL-38?
                  -distance to "torus"?
                  What type of radar? Regular teaching staff "Berkut-38" (or something special)? in what mode?
                  According to the principle of action, “Golden Eagle” refers to radio-acoustic systems, whose buoys provide a target search, its detection, determination of coordinates and elements of movement. The on-board digital computer made it possible to automate some of the processes of search and destruction of submarines, control of an aircraft during tactical maneuvers

                  B-38 is so-so, even the signals of the RSL-1 at 25-30 km with difficulty ...

                  Act 8 STSI of the Air Force according to test results:
                  ... the use of PPP does not provide damage to submarines, if their speed exceeds 10 knots (18,5 km / h) according to information from RSL-2 delivered to reacting RSL-1

                  (the rest: R-836, R-802V, R-847A, SPO-2, SO-57M, "Peleng", etc., as you know, they don't even have a "screen")
                  the only thing that the 38th could "cut" the pl was a "response" from the RSL-1/2, DP-3B, APM-60 / APM-73
                  Quote: Letun_64
                  Very clearly it could be distinguished in the photographs during photocontrol.

                  do not understand.
                  photocontrol of the screen SPIU PPS "Berkut-38" or the surface of the sea?
                  And what did the "torus flare" give?
                  I will explain:
                  TsVM-264 with the end of the barrier is transferred to the solution of the problem "Observation of the linear barrier."
                  contact -> "Flight around the target" (PVTs) + Collection and processing of information from BM-1.
                  With the receipt of data from the RSL-2 from SPIU in a digital computer (after combining the bearing sights with the target mark on both channels), the coordinates of the submarine and its speed, which are necessary to further develop data on the use of weapons, are calculated. The accuracy of the definitions substantially depends on the angle of intersection of the bearings. To obtain more information about the target, a clarifying buoy of the RSL-E can be set. ... In that case, if the crew of the aircraft was incredibly lucky, and with the help of the radar it found a “gape” submarine at the time of immersion, then the task of contact restoration can be solved automatically as a result of the logical choice of a digital computer. If the aircraft is in close proximity to the submersible submarine, then up to three RSL-3 can be set, and in the latter case, the splash point of the central buoy is combined with the submersion point; with significant removal of the contact restoration milking, a covering barrier from the RSL-1 can be set along a logarithmic spiral.

                  With buoys ... mmm
                  and already
                  Quote: Author
                  as if "traces" on the surface of the water, which are left by a submarine going in the depths
              2. +1
                5 November 2018 03: 29
                Quote: Aibolit
                This is a very cool phrase. Can I chew?

                It seems that you can’t do without Gridasov ... request
                1. +2
                  5 November 2018 21: 58
                  Quote: region58
                  It’s terribly interesting (I’m not joking). Can be more:

                  About IL-38 I am not competent, I have information only for fact-finding. According to Mi-14pl and Be-12, on-board radars "Initiative 2-M" and "Initiative-2B", respectively. On which sub-modes I no longer remember, but definitely in navigation. Flight parameters altitude up to 3 thousand, speed from 120-200 km / h, I won’t say about betmans. Radars have photo control, a screenshot is taken. Betmans definitely had tori in enlarged images, we got worse results, but some of them could also be considered. What is a torus? This is a radio reflective figure created by some fields of pl in the upper layers of the sea. I don’t remember the details anymore. In 2003 I left it to my comrades. In general, time has passed. What torus ranges I don’t remember, I'm a pilot, the navigator is working with radar. Yes, and the topic was pushed due to the fact that in flight it is not possible to classify the torus on the screen. And after analyzing the flight, it was also not realistic to conduct search activities. It is impossible to accurately calculate the ED pl, plus processing OK. He took part in two research searches of our project 613 b and in search of IPl. According to the results: there were torahs in the pictures, but unlike the author’s information, our tracing-paper didn’t agree, maybe our submariners got it. They always dispute when their aircraft catches. According to Ipl in the areas where there were tori there was not a single confirmed contact. Since 86, for my long service at the Black Sea Fleet, there were only 3 real contacts with the IPL in my memory, two night ones on buoys drove (the Mi-14pl helicopter) and one Ka-3 helicopter on the VGS-27. All I can.
                  1. 0
                    5 November 2018 22: 05
                    This is not me asking, this is who is interested:
                    Quote: Aibolit
                    It’s terribly interesting (I’m not joking). Can be more:
                    -height of flight of IL-38?
                    -distance to "torus"?
                    What type of radar? Regular teaching staff "Berkut-38" (or something special)? in what mode?

                    Thanks for the info.
                  2. 0
                    5 November 2018 23: 23
                    Quote: Letun_64
                    Radars have photo control, a screenshot is taken. Betmans definitely had tori in enlarged shots, we got worse results, but some of them could also be considered

                    Oleg....
                    "photocontrol", is that a camera installed "somewhere behind the back" of the navigator / pilot?
                    taking a picture issued by SPIU,
                    80s camera? us a film?
                    mmm.
                    Well, not really!
                    The pilot farted, drank a hot seagull, fog, the navigator lit a cigarette, sneezed, I can give 10 reasons.
                    You are in the photo, not only
                    Quote: Author
                    Hence the ring or elliptical shape of the figures on the radar screens.

                    "torus" you will see, in the photo, but also the Andromeda Nebula (s) wink
                    Photofixing the results of atomic weapons testing on August 29, 1949. Appendix to the report of L.P. Beria and I.V. Kurchatova I.V. Stalin about the preliminary data obtained during the testing of the atomic bomb. Central tower before and after the experience (taken from a distance of 500 m). 29.08.1949


                    ps.
                    In my time, serious things were written to the wire (not always, of course), OBJECTIVELY, removing the EM signal from ... (I don’t know from the receiver, or from the emitter)
                    Quote: region58
                    This is not me asking, this is who is interested:

                    site overhead
                    belay
                    Quote: region58
                    Thanks for the info.

                    Most interesting.
                    Not my specialty (specifically), but once in Fujairah (we were not oligarchs, the exhibition was) I drank "non-alcoholic" cognac, of course, with one of the tadpoles worried about the urgent problem of detecting submarines in the world, so to speak, ocean.
                    Under lobsters, he and I spent three days procrastinating on this subject.
                    About "tori" and "salt spray resonance" with the reflected signal PRL (fool) ....
                    neither he nor I (uninformed) did not say a word.
                    Strange.
                    And already such subtleties (theoretical, of course) went through .....
                    1. +1
                      6 November 2018 02: 52
                      Quote: Aibolit
                      you will see not only the "torus" in the photo, but also the Andromeda Nebula

                      In the sixties, astronomers began to record the emission lines of neutral potassium in the spectra of stars, and the cases were short, isolated, and even where potassium in the neutral state could not be present. It smelled of sensation. Everything was decided trite - astronomers smoked ... With a match, a teal near the telescope - appeared in the spectrum of potassium, the match burned out - disappeared. It seems not a bike.
                      1. 0
                        6 November 2018 14: 44
                        Quote: region58
                        Everything was decided trite - astronomers smoked ... With a match, a teal near the telescope - appeared in the spectrum of potassium, the match burned out - disappeared. It seems not a bike.

                        I'm talking about the same ....
                        Quote: Letun_64
                        Good time, not serious, you are ours

                        hello.
                        Yes, I’m serious.
                        can I give an explanation?
                        otherwise I’m in this
                    2. 0
                      6 November 2018 13: 56
                      Quote: Aibolit
                      Well, not really!

                      Good time to you, not our serious. Here I’ll try to upload a photo of the cockpit of the navigator of the Mi-14pl helicopter
                      1. 0
                        6 November 2018 17: 39
                        Quote: Letun_64
                        photo of the cockpit of the navigator of the Mi-14pl helicopter

                      2. 0
                        9 July 2019 01: 41
                        Explain to the person what PHARM-2 is. If he believes that you need to take a screen SPIU, not a radar :-)
                        He is not in the subject at all. Explain to the person what PHARM-2 is. If he believes that you need to take a screen SPIU, not a radar :-)
                        He is not in the subject at all.
                2. 0
                  5 November 2018 23: 03
                  Quote: region58
                  It seems that one cannot do without Gridasov.

                  Waiting for.
                  the author probably decided to remain silent.
                  it's a pity. He knows English
          4. -44
            3 November 2018 10: 40
            The article is well suited for all props and alarmists ...
            1. +53
              3 November 2018 11: 04
              Well, you write that we are fine. With arguments. And then the air shook all much, and how to count the ships on the move, so in the bushes immediately.
              1. +4
                3 November 2018 11: 15
                article is complete nonsense ..
                The Northern Fleet was first told about the operation, which spoiled a lot of nerves to the US Navy command. In 2013, nuclear submarines of the Northern Fleet went undetected into the Gulf of Mexico and were located at a distance of a missile strike at one of the main bases of American submarines.

                - Our submarines were tasked with occupying positions in the area of ​​the naval bases of the United States of America. The task was completed with flying colors. The boats remained unnoticed until they identified themselves in these areas, and then secretly returned to the base, - the commander of the nuclear-powered division, Captain XNUMXst Rank Sergei Starshinov, told the Zvezda TV channel.

                The submarines of Project 971 "Schuka-B" took part in the cruise.
                1. +46
                  3 November 2018 11: 24
                  Well, sometimes it happens, the Amer is now in peacetime mode. And in 80-e was, and now is.

                  But ours bend them like this ten times less often than they do us. We have 80% of the time that any nuclear submarine has a Virginia on its tail, if you don't know.

                  Every four sorties of PLO aviation "on the fox" - with the setting of an intercepting barrier of buoys behind their nuclear submarine, end with an American boat passing through this barrier in 30-40 minutes. And the crew of our nuclear submarine does not hear her.

                  You just did not talk about it.
                  1. -15
                    3 November 2018 14: 14
                    And you actually from where in such courses, letters are sent directly from the Pentagon. I am always amazed at the impudence and arrogance of such posts that in Russia and in the USA thousands of experts work in forecasting the development of weapons, but there are no more informed iksperds hanging on the VO branch.
                    1. +23
                      3 November 2018 18: 14
                      And I listed by name the people who lit this topic, with names and titles.
                      And he gave a reference to the American report with a stamp UNDERSTANDED.

                      Enough for you?
                      1. -7
                        3 November 2018 18: 38
                        Those. In your opinion, the analysts of the Russian Ministry of Defense do not know this and are waiting for the topic to be revealed more fully and professionally on the VO branch. It’s ridiculous.
                      2. +37
                        3 November 2018 19: 39
                        Quote: evgeny68
                        Those. In your opinion, the analysts of the Russian Ministry of Defense do not know this

                        Analysts in the Ministry of Defense may be the same as ministers in the Government. I find it difficult to name at least one Cabinet initiative that has benefited the population.
                      3. -23
                        3 November 2018 21: 04
                        While you are feeding your army, then apparently the Ministry of Defense and the Cabinet are working correctly. What is your opinion of the benefit to the population, free gas, gas or a salary of 3000 cu to each. Work each in his own place and earn money, there are opportunities for this., But do not moan about the Cabinet.
                      4. +24
                        3 November 2018 22: 10
                        Quote: evgeny68
                        Cabinet work correctly

                        I am sure that 8 out of 10 on the site do not agree with you.
                        Quote: evgeny68
                        Work each in his own place and earn money, there are opportunities for this., But do not moan about the Cabinet.

                        My work, unfortunately, will not affect the mental abilities of almost all ministers.
                        Quote: evgeny68
                        What is your opinion of the benefit to the population, free gas, gas or a salary of 3000 cu to each

                        We are the richest country in the world. Why can't we, for example, cost gasoline like water? Can not. But maybe 20 mil. the poor.
                      5. -9
                        4 November 2018 08: 43
                        I haven’t read anything more naive for a long time. You think that 8 out of 10 on the site are more informed than the Cabinet and the Ministry of Defense. If our gasoline costs like water, and in Germany like gold, then after a while you will ride a cart, not a car. You reason like Sharikov, take and share everything, the meaning is approximately the same. This is not serious. Of course, one must take life critically, but by thinking and analyzing, and not by momentary emotions.
                      6. 0
                        7 November 2018 16: 15
                        Quote: evgeny68

                        I haven’t read anything more naive for a long time. You think that 8 out of 10 on the site are more informed than the Cabinet and the Ministry of Defense. If our gasoline costs like water, and in Germany like gold, then after a while you will ride a cart, not a car. You reason like Sharikov, take and share everything, the meaning is approximately the same. This is not serious. Of course, one must take life critically, but by thinking and analyzing, and not by momentary emotions.

                        Relax, dear heart. It seems that most smart people have gathered here. Your loud rebuke is clearly not for this audience ... laughing
                      7. 0
                        4 November 2018 18: 42
                        boy you're clearly not hell
                      8. +13
                        3 November 2018 21: 21
                        What for analytics from MO, there is still sitting a female battalion of Serdyukov, Shoigu only adds women to his environment.
                      9. -3
                        4 November 2018 15: 06
                        Read it, it was written a long time ago, but as about contemporaries: FM Dostoevsky (in the novel “”, Evgeny Pavlovich Radomsky): “... a fact, observation and even discovery of which I have the honor to ascribe to myself and even to myself alone; at least this has not been said or written anywhere else. This fact expresses the whole essence of Russian liberalism of the kind I am talking about. First, what is liberalism, if we speak at all, if not an attack (reasonable or erroneous, that's another question) on the existing order of things? It is so? Well, my fact is that Russian liberalism is not an attack on the existing order of things, but an attack on the very essence of our things, on the very things, and not just one order, not the Russian order, but Russia itself. My liberal has gone so far as to deny Russia itself, that is, he hates and beats his mother. Every unfortunate and unfortunate Russian fact excites laughter and almost delight in him. He hates folk customs, Russian history, everything. If there is an excuse for him, it is that he does not understand what he is doing, and he takes his hatred of Russia for the most fruitful liberalism (oh, you often meet a liberal in our country who is applauded by the rest, and who, perhaps, in essence is the most ridiculous, the most stupid and dangerous conservative, and he himself does not know it!). This hatred for Russia, not so long ago, some of our liberals took almost for true love for the fatherland and boasted that they saw better than others, what it should consist of; but now they have become more frank and even the words "love of the fatherland" have begun to be ashamed, even the concept has been banished and eliminated as harmful and insignificant. This is a true fact, I stand for it and ... I should have said the truth someday completely, simply and frankly; but this fact at the same time and such, which nowhere and never, from time immemorial and in no people, has not happened and has not happened, and, therefore, this fact is accidental and can pass, I agree. There cannot be such a liberal anywhere, who would hate his own country. How can we explain all this? By the same token, as before, by the fact that the Russian liberal is still a non-Russian liberal; nothing more, in my opinion. "
                      10. +29
                        3 November 2018 22: 31
                        What are the analysts? An officer who warned against buying German diesel engines MTU was thrown out of the MO unit. Then it turned out that they came under sanctions.

                        You are already out of your elven forest. Come back to reality.
                      11. -15
                        4 November 2018 08: 53
                        The reality is simple, Russia in a very short time regained the right to influence all world processes, let it be by force. The US economy has been developing without war and thanks to wars for more than 200 years, Russia has at least 50 years of quiet economic development, but Western civilizers have in every way prevented, hinder and will hinder this.
                      12. +1
                        4 November 2018 18: 41
                        it is ridiculous that all the duties of the PlaRB, with nuclear weapons, in theory, come from closed for the other fleets of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
                      13. -5
                        3 November 2018 21: 30
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        He listed people by name

                        A series: "friend Seryoga", each other and each other's friend ... aha. Even defectors flicker. laughing It would be a good creative tandem with Igor Moiseev (Uncle-whiskers).
                      14. +6
                        3 November 2018 22: 32
                        You have to understand English badly and you don’t know what an anonymizer is.
                      15. 0
                        5 November 2018 02: 04
                        They killed by uncles and did the night! Yes, coke at the embassy on the case of Zakharova’s roof.
                      16. 0
                        26 May 2019 11: 14
                        https://ok.ru/profile/577591957310
                        This is the page of that clever officer,
                        referred to in the article.
                  2. -4
                    3 November 2018 14: 16
                    amers now have a peacetime regime.

                    this is a weak excuse that can be applied to anyone
                    80% of the time we have a Virginia on its tail at any nuclear submarine, if you don't know.

                    Personally, I do not know, but how do you know? Maybe links? Sources of this kind of statement? I would read, be convinced of your arguments. We won’t shake the air.
                    You just did not talk about it.

                    They say little to us, because it’s not common to spread everything, but since you know, share the sources.
                    1. +16
                      3 November 2018 18: 16
                      Walk "Anti-submarine defense. A view from the USSR". There from a participant in the events.
                      The man for the operation "Collision" from the Pacific Fleet command received an apartment out of turn)))
                      He knows the topic.
                      1. +2
                        4 November 2018 18: 01
                        Timosha!
                        Do you realize what you are writing? Calm down already.

                        What is the "collision" operation with obtaining an apartment? Do you understand at least a little how everything worked in the USSR ???
                        Yes, then even for disclosing the code name of the development, ... no, don't even dream, "turma" did not shine if there was no serious crime.
                        But "a participant in the events who received an apartment from the Pacific Fleet command out of turn ..." Bravissimo !!! He probably drowned amersky aircraft carrier, but we do not know.
                        Tell the public how many apartments were in the personal possession of the commanders of the fleets of the USSR?
                      2. 0
                        5 November 2018 22: 45
                        So the operation was in 80-x, and voiced this thing this year)))))

                        You really are sick of something, you find in the texts that which they do not and did not have, and in every comment like that.

                        I'll sprinkle salt on the wound - In Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, they gave a hut, moreover, that the officer was then unmarried, and a bunch of family hostels were huddled.

                        A very big deal was that operation. Judge for yourself:
                        From 18 May to 21 May 1988, in order to ensure the deployment of SSBNs, anti-submarine search operation of the Kamchatka flotilla "Collision" was conducted in the combat patrol areas.

                        Attended:

                        - KPUG-1 - SKR project 1135 Retivy, Retivy, Reasonable 173 BOD

                        - KPUG-2-IPC of the project 1124 MPK-145, MPK-178 114 BKOVR (brigade of the ships of the water area protection) TFR of the project 1124-P Resolute;

                        - KPUG-3- TFR of the project 1124-P The Bold, Sharp-Sighted .1 of the PSCR division;

                        - APL 671РТМ К-492 with АКСКС, К-258, К-412 of the project 667А, 2 ФППЛ;

                        - DPL project 877 B-404, B-470, B-229 182 Br PL;

                        - Hydroacoustic suppression ship - project sea minesweeper

                        266 MT-80 with trawl AT-5;

                        - GISU "North" with the equipment for the detection of the wake of the OLS-400;

                        - 4 aircraft departure of Tu-142 310 aircraft OPLAP Sovgavan;

                        - 2 airplane - departure IL-38 77 OPLAP Nikolaevka;

                        - 11 aircraft departures Be-12, 4 helicopters - helicopter departure

                        Mi-xnumx. 14 OSAP. Elizovo;

                        Results:

                        1) Received 7 2s of foreign submarines that were simultaneously monitored: in Avacha Bay - 55 hours 20 minutes, on approaches to Avachinsky Bay - 70 hours 54 minutes.

                        2) The water area has been opened with a total area of ​​53000 square miles.

                        3) For the first time in the fleet, an antisubmarine nuclear submarine of the 671РТМ К-492 project was guided, according to aviation, on the trail of a foreign submarine at a distance of 85 miles, followed by its release to the sonar contact.

                        4) 2 pushed foreign submarines from the deployment routes, 1 PLA was taken to the false route.

                        5) SSBN deployed to combat areas.

                        According to the General Staff of the Navy and the Chief of the Main Operations Directorate of the Navy, the operation is considered a model, if we evaluate the spent effort, quality and result by the criterion.

                        Moreover, the primary detection was obtained by the “Window” and “Echo” methods. Periodic confirmations of the contact were also performed using non-traditional methods.


                        He took the hut behind "Window". And without this system, they would have driven the ams like that.
                      3. +1
                        9 July 2019 01: 34
                        In the part noun lived commission. As a rule, its chairman is the unit commander. Sun write reports on obtaining or improving housing. The commission reviews and compares the queue list. At that time I had housing in Yelizovo, a room with a shared room in a 4 room apartment. This is an hour and a half drive away. Therefore, he spent the whole week in his office at the headquarters of the flotilla, on a weekend trip home. Almost flat.
                        On flotilla annually rented one or two houses. There is a command reserve housing. Therefore, the beginning of the headquarters of the flotilla, my indirectly chief of Rear Adm Shumanin, pushed me a little in line. In the new house on Sadovaya in Petropavlovsk, we got three from our headquarters. Two improved, I got one-room. In the story of the second part, there are photos of both houses and apartments.
                        Nothing special.
                        Naturally, not for beautiful eyes, but for work. A collision is just a fragment.
                      4. END
                        0
                        10 January 2021 08: 28
                        May old post. Forgot about him.
                      5. END
                        0
                        10 January 2021 08: 25
                        Well, I got an apartment on Ponomarev St., Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, for "Collision", so what? )))
                        He was without an apartment, he lived in the headquarters on the sofa in the office. NSh flotilla k.a. Shumanin moved the queue as two houses were being built. The results of the operation were the occasion.
                        Photo of the bay from the kitchen and the house itself.

                  3. +4
                    3 November 2018 14: 34
                    Author!!!

                    What buoys? What is the delivery of submarines in 30-40 minutes?
                    Have you ever seen the sea, or beguiled with a pizza delivery?
                    Are you aware of the range of ballistic missiles? If not, take a map of Russia and estimate the distance from the North Sea (test launches) to Kamchatka. And this is not the ultimate range, it is simply impossible to shoot at a greater distance even in huge Russia.
                    Amers do not even have submarine bases in Alaska. Express pizza delivery (oh, nuclear submarines lol ) from Norfolk to the Arctic?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. +7
                      3 November 2018 18: 16
                      I even on the advice of Zhirinovsky in the sea boots (boots, yes) washed))))

                      Essentially there is something to object to?
                    3. -14
                      3 November 2018 20: 18
                      Lord, and how people like you generally get into VO. And most importantly - why. You have a place in the RIA commentators - the ceiling
                      1. +8
                        3 November 2018 22: 33
                        Where are you then?
                      2. -1
                        7 November 2018 16: 10
                        Stop Alexander, the comment was not addressed to you.
                        I just support you.
                      3. 0
                        7 November 2018 16: 10
                        This bespontovy system of answers to VO confuses all cards. The bottom is full.
                  4. +10
                    3 November 2018 16: 07
                    An alarmist is appropriate, unlike an all-mutter. That in the General Staff Building and USC there are PERSONALISTIC pests, like in the Administration, everyone can smell, and this is a task for counterintelligence. But the priorities for the fleet and the armed forces as a whole are close to the PERMANENT optimum. We cannot climb into the ocean zone yet, and it makes no sense - we are developing the videoconferencing system priority and effectively. Naval aviation is at the next stage, but it will work from near space in the near future, and it will be effective in terms of price-quality ratio. We do not need aircraft carriers, we need a group of shock satellites. Well and firmly closed near sea zone - patrol ships, coastal missiles and cannons, seaplanes and amphibious helicopters, drones - air and sea, reconnaissance and strike. In many areas, we caught up and overtook - our radar caught up, first of all. Do not compare with the situation even in the USSR. Air defense and missile defense systems too. Our cause is just, victory will be ours!
                    1. +14
                      3 November 2018 16: 31
                      Optimistic, but not justified.
                      The sonar buoys cannot be positioned and tied into the warning system, but creating a satellite constellation is at least tomorrow.
                      1. +1
                        4 November 2018 20: 10
                        Quote: VSrostagro

                        Optimistic, but not justified.
                        The sonar buoys cannot be positioned and tied into the warning system, but creating a satellite constellation is at least tomorrow.

                        You take a look at the achievements of our electronic optics, the same Schwabe. We have caught up with NATO and the USA and DARKLY overtaken. The grouping of mini-satellites will ensure the detection of submarines from space. In millimeter radar we are also SHARP ahead. I haven’t read anything about sonar and sonar, but I know for sure (I worked at the State Research Center for TsAGI in the 90s) that we have LONG ahead in aeroacoustics, from the 30s, by the way. In the system of HORIZONTAL missile launch notches, it is LONG ahead, in mathematics and technology for calculating missile trajectories, etc. also LONG ahead, as in the system and speed of missile defense and air defense in general. In the North, in general, in terms of equipment and grouping, we are generally inaccessible, we have more than 40 powerful icebreakers and some kind of icebreaking class (NATO has 2-3), airfields on islands with all kinds of location equipment ... There are a lot of buoys on ice fields we can scatter helicopters with mine weapons and special guards, and in fact, polar aviation is ONLY with us on an operational scale. A lot, of course, it is urgent to put in order and combat readiness in it, to repair and upgrade URGENTLY, the author is absolutely right in this, but for now we are ahead of the enemy in the North for sure. But buoys also need to be set, you are also right, and you must URGENTLY restore this Soviet method of submarine location. And anti-submarine torpedoes with nuclear warheads must be kept ready, and used in their guides RESOLVE if the target creeps in there ...
                      2. 0
                        4 November 2018 20: 36
                        It's about specific "weaknesses". If we are able to "see" in different ranges, this does not mean that we can "hear" (and we must listen under water).
                        Moreover, "skill" and a specific technique are different things.
                        Or do you think the presence of icebreakers in our country greatly interferes with American nuclear submarines?
                      3. +2
                        4 November 2018 23: 06
                        Yes you are an optimist. Yes, the backlogs were huge. But there is no one to implement them already. Top management can only twist cash flows ...
                      4. -1
                        5 November 2018 11: 16
                        Quote: VSrostagro
                        Or do you think the presence of icebreakers in our country greatly interferes with American nuclear submarines?

                        Even our patrol and hydrographic boats with standard echo sounders interfere with them. Once again, I’ll repeat that I’m not dragging in sonar, but I don’t see any fundamental obstacles for the Russian Federation to have TENS (if not hundreds) of AUTOMATIC sonar devices in the Arctic, both stationary on the islands and drifting on ice and on ships and ships, with satellite communications. Not to mention the acoustic services of the KSF PLO. For us, the Arctic is far from virgin, as for the Atlantists. Well, for their nuclear submarines, as I understand it, tracking is starting from their bases, again starting from satellites. Sounds can also be written with them, in principle - heights and distances of 100-200 km are not the limit for aeroacoustics. Even sounds from the past are captured. sensitive equipment is.
                      5. +6
                        5 November 2018 00: 04
                        Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
                        You take a look at the achievements of our electronic optics, the same Schwabe.

                        we are so far ahead of the west in electronic optics that ....

                        what :
                        -none of the Russian and Belarusian enterprises does not produce electronic lithography plants and equipment for the manufacture of low-dimensional nanostructures according to the MOCVD method (A3B5, A3N).
                        - there are no manufacturers of domestic devices using atomic layer deposition technology (ALD) either.
                        - in Russia there is only one manufacturer of steppers for laser lithography, including for the manufacture of photo masks.
                        and "Rusnano at the end of 2012 invested in Mapper Lithography, a developer of electronic lithography equipment"
                        And this is semiconductor production on 200 mm wafers, and these are wafers by technological processes not less than 90 nm.
                        In the entire world of microelectronics, there is now a shift, and even the largest microelectronic companies (including TexasInstrumentsInc Corporation) stop investing in internal technology development less than 45 nm

                        Although I agree: The same ALD method was developed by Professor S. I. Koltsov from the Leningrad Institute of Technology. I brought this technology to mind in 2004 by Tuomo Suntola, for which I received the European SEMI award
                        Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
                        The grouping of mini-satellites will ensure the detection of submarines from space.

                        1.No, will not provide
                        2. We do not have this group, as well as manufacturers. You have beguiled Russian companies with MDA, SSTL, Jena-Optronik


                        Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
                        In millimeter radar we are also SHARP ahead.

                        belay

                        Tank Startle radar (RockweII, USA), Monopulse anti-tank missile fire control radar (Sperry, USA), artillery shooting radar, radar sight
                        (Standard Electric Lorens, Germany), Solid-state weapon-guided radar- Transmitter using a pulse IMPATT diode with a power of 5 W and a pulse duration of 100 ns (Lincoln Lab.
                        Massachusetts lnst., USA), Ballistic Missile Defense Radar (Operating Frequencies 35 and 95 GHz) -Lincoln Lab. Massachusetts Inst., USA.
                        So abruptly that Baumanka has been working since 2005



                        Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
                        that in aeroacoustics we are LONG ahead

                        YES?
                        And then why didn’t our airplanes allow noise to fly to Europe?
                        Head of the Department of Aeroacoustics and Aviation Ecology, Doctor of Philosophy, prof. V.F. Kopiev, in the plenary report "Modern Problems of Aeroacoustics"
                        problems reachability of domestic aircraft requirements of promising standards ICAO on noise in the area, including the requirements of the new Chapter 14 of Volume 1 of ICAO Appendix 16, as well as the competitively required noise levels in the cabin and cockpit. The basic fundamental problems that arose on the way of aeroacoustics to quiet planes were considered and new tasks were formulated that were waiting to be solved.


                        Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
                        in mathematics and technology for calculating rocket trajectories,

                        Where do you get all this from?
                        ===
                        Ps .. on icebreakers, yes that's right.
                      6. 0
                        5 November 2018 10: 52
                        Quote: VSrostagro
                        Or do you think the presence of icebreakers in our country greatly interferes with American nuclear submarines?

                        Even our patrol and hydrographic boats with standard echo sounders interfere with them. Once again, I’ll repeat that I’m not dragging in sonar, but I don’t see any fundamental obstacles for the Russian Federation to have TENS (if not hundreds) of AUTOMATIC sonar devices in the Arctic, both stationary on the islands and drifting on ice and on ships and ships, with satellite communications. Not to mention the acoustic services of the KSF PLO. For us, the Arctic is far from virgin, as for the Atlantists. Well, for their nuclear submarines, as I understand it, tracking is starting from their bases, again starting from satellites. Sounds can also be written with them, in principle - heights and distances of 100-200 km are not the limit for aeroacoustics. Even sounds from the past are captured. sensitive equipment is.
                      7. +3
                        5 November 2018 12: 41
                        "from satellites. Sounds can also be written from them, in principle"
                        in principle, you can press your ear to the ice,
                        but ineffective and the ears freeze.
                    2. +2
                      4 November 2018 22: 55
                      On a backlog? When did Russia manage to create them? We could not overtake the USSR, because all the Soviets were affected.
                2. +6
                  4 November 2018 05: 36
                  -The submarines of project 971 "Schuka-B" took part in the campaign.

                  This gadget walked around the Internet for a short time. Somewhere these submarines disappeared in a short operational period.
                3. +2
                  4 November 2018 05: 38
                  Look at the map of the Gulf of Mexico, and read its location. Before writing such stories. It’s hard for a surface ship to maneuver, what kind of submarines there can be!
              2. -13
                3 November 2018 13: 25
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                but how to count ships on the go, so in the bushes immediately.

                This is your mistake. Do you think that we should have as many ships as the United States, it never will be, the doctrines we have are different, they have offensive and aggressive, we have defensive and defensive. It is they who constantly sail to foreign shores and build military bases for constant pressure on other countries, but we go to sea to deter the aggressor and disrupt offensive plans. We will go to heaven, and they will simply die.
                1. +39
                  3 November 2018 14: 55
                  Quote: figvam
                  We will go to heaven, and they will simply die.

                  Do not repeat other people's nonsense.
                2. +13
                  3 November 2018 16: 42
                  And you do not consider
                  put a multipurpose guard on each of our strategic submarines ...
                  And then look, did we still have multi-purpose ones to look after the bases (cities), the NATO strategists?
                  The surface fleet is even worse.
                3. +19
                  3 November 2018 18: 19
                  We must have enough of them so that the 15thARG and three NATO nuclear submarines in Sredismka are not met by a pair of frigates 11356 with a "dead" GAK and a pair of "Warsaw", as it was during the last US attack on Syria.
                  For example.
                  1. -7
                    3 November 2018 19: 07
                    Quote: timokhin-aa

                    We should have enough of them ...

                    Enough to cause unacceptable damage.
                    1. +3
                      3 November 2018 22: 33
                      Even in response to limited provocation? So in response, it will arrive.
                4. +12
                  3 November 2018 20: 23
                  You need to quote less bullshit from GDP.
                  Personally, he himself - never presses a button even for a retaliatory strike - because there where our missiles will fly - there are numerous offspring of our entire power elite.

                  Even Brzezinski wrote - your elite holds 500 billion with us, so whose elite is yours or ours?

                  And as for the doctrine and the fact that Russia is not a sea power and we do not need an ocean fleet - well, these are just words of a fool, not to say otherwise.

                  Any country trying to prove something to someone in this world should have an ocean fleet, albeit few in number, but balanced and combat-ready.

                  And if the country has no ambitions and claims, then the path to it in the modern world is to a colony with slaves.
                  What we almost are.
                  1. -12
                    3 November 2018 21: 11
                    Quote: Zloyxirurg

                    You need to quote less bullshit from GDP.

                    Without you, I will decide for myself whom and what to quote.
                    Quote: Zloyxirurg
                    Personally, he himself - never presses a button, even for a retaliatory strike

                    The president without you will decide who and what he can click on.
                    Quote: Zloyxirurg
                    And about the doctrine and the fact that Russia is not a sea power and we do not need an ocean fleet - well, these are just words of a fool

                    And you already thought up this yourself because you yourself in the mirror and explain yourself.
                    1. +3
                      7 November 2018 15: 58
                      the president already decided without you and without me that you would die in a nuclear war for his interests and those of his friends.
                      with inferiority complexes - exit.
                      there is a desire to blather something personal - I can leave a contact number.
                      then you’ll tell me everything - about what you need or do not need you.
                      and I will give you a response-counter reaction.
                      just like in the doctrine of the "president" you respect
                  2. -6
                    3 November 2018 21: 34
                    Quote: Zloyxirurg
                    to the colony with slaves.
                    What we almost are.
                    Be-so-so-so ... laughing Lyosha, stop encrypting.wassat
                    1. +1
                      4 November 2018 19: 58
                      not with slaves, but with fish, woodpecker)))
                    2. 0
                      7 November 2018 16: 01
                      a bunch of not very well working cells in your cranium, made just a wonderful conclusion)))
                      Lesha ahahahah, what a pity that you can’t call people by their proper names)))
                      Ilyas I, you miserable ours. I can even prove it. Clown.
                  3. -5
                    4 November 2018 11: 52
                    You and your ilk may already consider yourself slaves, then you would have to move to the Baltic states!
                    1. -1
                      5 November 2018 02: 09
                      And he had already skied. Pillau is his nickname. The Bundes probably wants to lie down, a Kozak sailor.
                      1. -2
                        5 November 2018 04: 30
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        Pillau his nickname

                        But what about the rules of the site?

                        Quote: Forbidden
                        d) Have multiple accounts per visitor
                      2. 0
                        7 November 2018 16: 03
                        Another stoned clown ahahah, Where do you come from?)) Science fiction writers)))))))
                  4. -2
                    6 November 2018 10: 36
                    Zloyxirurg (ZloyXirurg) November 3, 2018 20:23 p.m.
                    Personally, he himself - never presses a button even for a retaliatory strike - because there where our missiles will fly - there are numerous offspring of our entire power elite.

                    stop multiplying this nonsense. When it comes to mutual exchange of nuclear strikes, what difference does it make on which side of the border "numerous offspring" will burn in an atomic fire.
                    1. +2
                      7 November 2018 16: 09
                      It is nonsense to think that the king, first posed by the West, and then supported by the local thieves - businessmen, oligarchs and others like them - reigns, something there will be able to pull to where the capital and offspring of these thieves live.
                      There will be no nuclear war, and if there is something, it will only be a local application against especially fucked up types.
                      I love my country, I love my people, and I would like the threat of a retaliatory strike to be reality and truth.
                      But the words of this rooster aging, I no longer believe.
                      A thief and he and thieves are all his entourage, rats and thieves.
                      And believe me, as soon as it smells fried, he and his rats - will run away from our already sinking ship - FIRST!
                      Do not believe? Then get acquainted with the fleet of the flight detachment RUSSIA, the composition and quantity of their equipment and the quantitative capabilities for transporting people and at what distances all this can fly away. May you see clearly.
                      1. 0
                        7 November 2018 19: 47
                        You and others like you are constantly doing what dermal political platforms out of a topic about technology and weapons. If you do not like the current government - go to rallies. Or here on topwar there are topics on political topics. Why litter your whining that is not intended for this?
                5. +8
                  4 November 2018 16: 37
                  Quote: figvam
                  We will go to heaven, and they will simply die.

                  I don't want to go to heaven. Go there yourself, do not forget to take the author of this ingenious phrase with you.
                  1. 0
                    5 November 2018 18: 24
                    I don't want to go to heaven. Go there yourself, do not forget to take the author of this ingenious phrase with you.


                    Circumstances may be such that you will not have much choice ....
                  2. 0
                    6 November 2018 10: 43
                    Sunzhen (Konstantin) November 4, 2018 16:37
                    Quote: figvam
                    We will go to heaven, and they will simply die.
                    I don't want to go to heaven. Go there yourself, do not forget to take the author of this ingenious phrase with you.

                    Yes, yes, you probably naively think the UGM-133A Trident II (D5) warhead will ask your opinion? You will not even have time to raise the white flag and shout like one movie hero "We give up!"
              3. -3
                3 November 2018 13: 55
                Dear author!

                Before giving ridiculous theories about gravitational fields, we would take a calculator and divide the area of ​​the Arctic ice cover by the number of Amer airplanes, and not because of which, but capable of flying in the polar latitudes, (well, heat-loving Americans in the Arctic are weak, even smart icebreakers are not able to build ) You’ll understand right away that the control of our nuclear submarines is unrealistic in principle.

                I don’t know about the problems of shipbuilding, not a specialist.

                Well, the fact that the military-industrial complex is being stolen in black is true. And where they do not steal from us? crying
                1. +13
                  3 November 2018 18: 21
                  Why should I do such nonsense? For what purpose?
                  In addition, where did you get the idea that their planes cannot fly in the Arctic?
                  1. -1
                    5 November 2018 11: 15
                    Quote: VSrostagro
                    Or do you think the presence of icebreakers in our country greatly interferes with American nuclear submarines?

                    Even our patrol and hydrographic boats with standard echo sounders interfere with them. Once again, I’ll repeat that I’m not dragging in sonar, but I don’t see any fundamental obstacles for the Russian Federation to have TENS (if not hundreds) of AUTOMATIC sonar devices in the Arctic, both stationary on the islands and drifting on ice and on ships and ships, with satellite communications. Not to mention the acoustic services of the KSF PLO. For us, the Arctic is far from virgin, as for the Atlantists. Well, for their nuclear submarines, as I understand it, tracking is starting from their bases, again starting from satellites. Sounds can also be written with them, in principle - heights and distances of 100-200 km are not the limit for aeroacoustics. Even sounds from the past are captured. sensitive equipment is.
                2. 0
                  7 February 2020 16: 17
                  Lord, what nonsense. But nothing that at the altitudes at which even civilian planes fly - overboard - 50 degrees?
            2. jjj
              +11
              3 November 2018 11: 16
              Friends! This topic was discussed many, many years ago. It pops up with a frequency of five years on various resources. There were also screams that Americans from space from satellites see all of our boats. There was even some explanation of the process. If it were like that. But in practice, try to find a boat. Especially under the ice
              1. +20
                3 November 2018 11: 25
                Both the USA and the USSR found boats from satellites, apparently even before your birth.
                Only in our uniforms they ruined everything, but with them - the theme "went", as they say.
                1. +6
                  3 November 2018 14: 19
                  Only in uniform we ruined everything

                  I wonder who is so stupid that he could ruin a similar idea if it would give a result? It’s hard to believe, and again, so far only with your words, Alexander.
                  1. +4
                    3 November 2018 18: 24
                    Well, let's say, not quite ruined. They simply did not give a move for a long time, and did not develop (and do not develop). Apparently, something "has become ugly".
                    But with the American level it is incomparable.
                  2. +1
                    3 November 2018 20: 26
                    and you ask GDP. he knows everything. About Paradise too.
                  3. 0
                    5 November 2018 00: 09
                    https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/7614-ubiytsa-avianostsev-tragicheskaya-istoriya-sotki-t-4/#part0 пример загубленной идеи.
                2. 0
                  3 November 2018 14: 39
                  Find a boat under ice from a satellite?

                  This is magic, Karl! Tell me more !!! Nobel already laughing in the pocket.
                  1. +10
                    3 November 2018 18: 25
                    Under the ice from the plane. The source in the text is given. Trust in him, well, let's say more than clowns from the Internet.
                    1. +4
                      4 November 2018 14: 36
                      I am 54 years old, I have a Soviet engineering education with a degree in Gyroscopic Instruments and Devices. If anyone does not know, this is the basis of navigation systems for ships, aircraft, ballistic missiles. He did not work in his specialty for long, during perestroika they decided that engineers were no longer needed, but I remember something about submarines and missiles. Worked directly. And here they poke a murky Internet source with complete nonsense. Now questions for the future Nobel laureate (author):

                      1. What instruments is the satellite capable of determining the location of submarines under ice?
                      2. What instruments is the aircraft capable of determining the location of submarines under the ice (do not offer magic and unscientific fiction)?
                      If you can clearly answer.
                      3. How many satellites and planes are needed to reliably detect, say, 5 nuclear submarines on combat patrol under Arctic ice?

                      Well, who is the clown here?
                      1. -1
                        4 November 2018 20: 00
                        there are appliances. my late boss did this. if you do not own the topic, this does not mean that this is not
                      2. 0
                        5 November 2018 14: 57
                        Oh, another one popped up!
                        Well, go ahead for the Nobel!

                        So which appliances? Well, at least the general principles of the gravity caps. Or have you still not gone through the basics of physics? laughing
                      3. +4
                        5 November 2018 03: 44
                        Quote: basal
                        What devices

                        Well ... they broke everything ... the article clearly says: we need
                        French-made polarized sun-protection goggles used by pilots of Canadian Arctic Airlines (Air North)
                        And all business ... wassat
                      4. +2
                        5 November 2018 10: 35
                        I do not have an engineering education, but I will try to answer for the author:
                        2. Detection of not a submarine under the ice, but its trace. Radar track on the surface of the water (ice). By the way, similar traces can be seen in everyday life. Try to drag a rather large object on a rope, submerged under water, the "hump" will be visible, especially when moving up. True, it is not gravity that works here, but the volume of the body, displacing water.
                        3. Quite small, if previously having studied the ice situation, undercover information, etc. narrow your search.
                      5. +5
                        5 November 2018 15: 38
                        Thank you, Stanislav! Well, at least someone is trying to reasonably talk.

                        You are right about the trail of water displacement. Pop-up sub wow as previously seen. But we are not talking about a bucket of water. Submarines go at a depth of tens or even hundreds of meters. And as much as possible masked. What is the trace, and even under the thickness of the Arctic ice?
                        Before continuing, I’ll say right away that I’m not an expert in radio and sonar, therefore, only general knowledge.
                        I have not heard about the use of radar on underwater objects, I'm sorry, I’m sweeping it for now.
                        A long time ago, the main means of detecting submarines is sonar. In the Arctic, this does not work. It’s hard to imagine the crowds of heat-loving Amer special forces, drilling holes in the ice and shoving GA buoys in them. By the way, the buoys work for no longer than 8 hours (in polar conditions it’s much less, I think I’ll not explain why, put your fully charged smartphone in the freezer and see what happens in an hour).
                        If the author, who continues to cling to me, looks, I’ll reveal a terrible military secret especially for him: there is still a way to detect submarines - measuring magnetic fields. Here I am completely swimming, but I doubt that this will work in the Arctic. Here cover the base with magnetometers, yes, but the ocean ...
                        Well, regarding the study of ice conditions and agents.
                        We do not always reliably know the ice conditions on the Northern Sea Route, how do you propose exploring the entire Arctic? Answer: it is not immediately received from satellites. Can you imagine how many they will need? Further, the study of ice conditions does not give anything. The submarine is under the ice, there are wormwoods all over the ice. Well, about the agents ... Doubtful. The submarine commander himself may be without a clue, say, which of several envelopes with the task to open before leaving. And to receive an order personally from the fleet commander. Traitors? Sorry, but this is paranoia. I have no idea how the service in the Northern Fleet is organized, but I think that if there are any leaks, then it’s not in matters of combat patrol of nuclear submarines.
                        That something like this.
                      6. 0
                        5 November 2018 16: 08
                        We are not experts to reject or affirm (at least) something. I’m just trying to imagine: at a depth (even 200 meters), an object is moving with a mass of several thousand tons and a length of about a hundred meters (i.e. already comparable to depth). It moves at high speed (plus a submarine at high underwater speed). The volume of displaced water will be quite significant. Yes, visually it is not visible. On the surface - waves like waves, everything seems to be with the same frequency and amplitude. But in general, with a certain accuracy of measurements, the difference will probably be noticeable. It is the accuracy of the measurement and the large scale of the radar being examined from the side view of the water surface. It’s honestly not clear with ice. hi
                      7. +1
                        10 November 2018 16: 50
                        Stanislav!
                        Sorry was busy, could not answer.

                        Do you think that the depth of 200m is comparable to the depth of the ocean? In vain.
                        It is not necessary to move at high speed with nuclear submarines. Her task is to secretly go into the area of ​​duty and quiet down like a mouse under a broom.
                        Everything is clear with ice. Ask why the main strategic forces are focused on the SF. There is like Norway - a member of NATO nearby ... Yes, that's all. The task of surface forces and aviation of the Northern Fleet is to bring the nuclear submarines to the edge of the ice, then everything, it is undetectable. The ice cover of the Arctic is approximately 4,5 million square meters. km Looking for a needle in a haystack? It will be even easier.

                        Well, if it's still interesting, I can tell you about "gravitational waves". drinks
                      8. -1
                        5 November 2018 20: 00
                        Unfortunately, there will be no sane answer, the "author" has another task - to troll fat, but he chose the wrong resource for his nonsense, and uncomfortable questions can be asked here.
                      9. END
                        0
                        10 January 2021 08: 36
                        Type in the network-Project "Vaenga".
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +1
                    4 November 2018 07: 54
                    ... technology does not stand still ..
                    1. +5
                      4 November 2018 18: 09
                      Sorry, Vera, but nobody has changed the laws of physics yet. Even the inventor Einstein, like the gravitational waves did not master. But we have a genius (author) - going to the Nobel at the ready with a gravitap. There are no other options.
                      1. +3
                        5 November 2018 16: 12
                        ... Einstein - first of all a thief - he received the Nobel Prize for the second law of the Stoletov Photoeffect, which he * stole * from Stoletov .. Then Einstein worked at the Patent Office .. His special Theory of Relativity is not worth a penny ..- the speed of gravitational forces 50 million times the speed of light .. A Jew is a Jew .. His Oppenheimer didn’t even take on a team of Americans working on a nuclear bomb .. Malevich Nobel was given to not be sent to prison as a dissident - Jews are influential people who were saved from prison. .
                      2. +1
                        5 November 2018 16: 56
                        Quote: ver_
                        the speed of propagation of gravitational forces is 50 million times the speed of light

                        Who measured and with what? By the way, physicists have a different opinion:
                        the deviation of the speed of gravitational waves from the speed of light, if such a deviation exists, lies in the range from −3 × 10−15 to + 0,7 × 10−15. Since the expected difference between the refractive indices and the dispersion of the intergalactic medium is insignificant, no differences were found from the speed of light within the error
                      3. -1
                        5 November 2018 17: 52
                        ... Newton’s campaign ..., by the way, Ivan Efremov, a writer, also has this figure ... I read this topic a long time ago - about 40 years ago - there Newton recorded the moment of overlapping of one cosmic body with another ...
                      4. 0
                        5 November 2018 20: 44
                        Quote: ver_
                        Newton recorded the moment of overlapping of one cosmic body with another ...

                        AND??? Why did you register? How did you register? What conclusions did you draw from this? Based on the context of our conversation, he had to somehow fix the changes in the gravitational field. Again, how (in what way) could he register such changes? If he registered the changes, how did he connect them with the moment of "overlapping of one cosmic body by another"? 50 million times is a big number.
                        We will not talk about Efremov yet: he writes of course well, but ... let's not use science fiction as arguments yet.
                        Sorry, I am boring to the impossibility.
                      5. 0
                        6 November 2018 03: 14
                        ... you are not just boring ...
                      6. 0
                        10 November 2018 16: 56
                        So I am about the same. Nonsense about the speed of light, as the ultimate value, is refuted by the elemental existence of electricity. Moreover, it is proved experimentally. I don’t remember exactly, but after the appearance of ultra-precise atomic clocks, a couple of them were synchronized and installed at the input - output of the transatlantic cable. Then they simply turned on the circuit breaker and made sure that electricity is unfamiliar with Einstein’s theory laughing
          5. -20
            3 November 2018 10: 55
            these stuffing is a means of psychological pressure

            I will not argue that the "all-fighters" have become very active lately. But I don’t think it’s a meeting. It seems to me that a negative background was created on the topic of pensions, the drilled ISS, the fallen "union", etc. ... We are waiting for good news and everything will settle down a bit!) hi
            1. +42
              3 November 2018 11: 05
              We are waiting for the good news and everything will be a little out of order!


              It is like a 12 year old pregnant schoolgirl who thinks she will "suddenly resolve."
              But the eyes must be opened and boldly face reality - whatever it is.
              1. -7
                4 November 2018 11: 55
                Lord, where do you get so many advantages from, it feels like you fart and 30 pluses in your pocket! This article is your idea of ​​copy-paste with a splash of fiction, gravity fields and all-seeing eyes of amers .. !!!
                1. +1
                  4 November 2018 14: 48
                  So the author walks with a dance. It's okay, but a normal discussion does not work because of the abundance of unnecessary garbage. Sad There is something to talk about.
                  1. 0
                    7 February 2020 16: 27
                    You yourself are garbage, mu duck proud. Reduce your arrogance so that someone wants to have a discussion with you. And then the manner of communication of the habalka driveway, and claims and ambitions for an expert. "I'm a little rummaging around but a little bit, but the author is clearly a sucker ...." brilliant !!! Bravo !!!
                2. +10
                  4 November 2018 16: 29
                  Quote: igorka357
                  Lord, where do you get so many advantages from, it feels like you fart and 30 pluses in your pocket! This article is your idea of ​​copy-paste with a splash of fiction, gravity fields and all-seeing eyes of amers .. !!!

                  No, it's just that the author, unlike you, gives arguments, and even if not all of them inspire confidence, at least he tries to do it. And you, except for cheap jokes about American diapers, fu 35, and other things, you can not provide anything. When they say to your face - write an article about how good everything is, only with the facts, you "farts" into the bushes, on the way, dropping something like "but we don't need an ocean fleet, we have a different doctrine", yeah, you heard, and su 57 is not needed and armata is not needed ... Hence the balance +, and -.
                3. +2
                  5 November 2018 03: 46
                  Quote: igorka357
                  where do you get so many advantages

                  Vacations however ... Yes
            2. +7
              3 November 2018 22: 19
              Right now, you still have the Olympics or some other top world championships, so calm down.
          6. +31
            3 November 2018 11: 53
            It is noticeable that the idea prevailed in VO that no matter how sad the results of the actions of the authorities, the only positive quality of which is "personal loyalty", no matter how large the budget losses (and not only the budget - the loss of the country's future!) these actions (note - I am not writing about theft) - all coverage of the real state of affairs and the reasons for this situation must be interpreted in light of the provocations of agents of influence, psychological pressure on society and preparation for the overthrow of the existing system.
          7. +15
            3 November 2018 15: 22
            Quote: Ilya-spb
            I read the article carefully. In recent days, more than once the material has come across on the Web that everything is lost and the Americans see our submarines under water.

            It turns out that these data are from 1988. 30 years have passed.

            It seems to me that these stuffing is a means of psychological pressure on society and on leadership. Especially - before the meeting of Putin and Trump.

            Two points from formal logic:

            1) No country will declassify any real military advantage over a likely enemy. Will keep him secret until the end.

            2) For 30 years, science has stepped far forward. And they could develop a remedy. Covering the body, etc., removing this effect.

            In conclusion, I’ll say yes, our fleet has many problems. But you cannot be strong everywhere. We cannot allow the construction of giant squadrons. We are not a sea power!

            That stuffing is and will be, here of course it is not possible to deny. It is imperative to show doubtfulness. Maybe the situation with the fleet is not the same as in the article, of course it can. And yet, let's look around at other high-tech industries (and the Navy is definitely created using the products of such industries), the main thing is to turn off the TV. So, about the state of affairs in the space industry today, how many major emergencies, thanks to the media, everyone is aware. Further, such an industry as aircraft construction. From the fresh, from 02.11.2018: "The Belgian airline Brussels Airlines has announced that it is refusing to operate the Russian Sukhoi SuperJet. They will be replaced by the CRJ-900 models of the Canadian manufacturer Bombardier. The reason is in aircraft malfunctions."
            Which of the customers did not swear at the SSJ-100 /
            Here, the source "Civil forces.ru": "The fiasco with the first Russian heavy drone is explained by an initially erroneous estimate of the costs of the project, with high hopes for the capabilities of domestic industry... Even money now cannot solve all the problems generated by the long neglect of such a direction as unmanned aircraft. What is now observed can be called an assault, with all the ensuing consequences - "showdowns" and the likely transfer of the project to another performer, "- said" Civil forces.ru "expert in the field of unmanned systems Denis Fedutinov."
            Further, communication systems, a source of "Lenta.ru": "The Ministry of Defense of Russia posted on the public procurement portal a notice of a closed auction for the purchase of 30 Iridium satellite communication devices worth 2019 thousand rubles each by November 80, 41,8.
            According to the research director of the Space Policy Institute, Ivan Moiseev, the Russian military uses the services of an American company because of the good quality of communications and the lack of analogues.
            “We have a similar company, Gonets, but it has a very low bandwidth and transmission speed. If the Ministry of Defense needs something more prompt, it will have to order from foreign customers. The Iridium system is unique, to some extent, they are monopolists, "- said the expert to RIA Novosti."
            Well and so on. It’s not very beautiful and rosy, if you take a closer look (no, of course, if you watch Kiselev and Soloviev on TV, then your head will spin from success).
            As for the conclusion: "We are not a sea power!" One can argue with this, or one can agree. Well, the same thing can be said today with respect to civil aviation, and if this goes on, then it will also be said about space. But here it is already indisputable that not very long ago, our country was precisely a country that mass-produced and a civilian fleet (in some places the remnants are still flying), and was a leader in space. Maybe all this is really not necessary, unnecessary. Our ancestors somehow lived without it, maybe we will live. Only how will we live, and do we have a future in this case?
            PS "But you can't be strong everywhere." Where are we really strong today?
            1. -3
              4 November 2018 07: 59
              ... at the table and with a glass ...
            2. +1
              5 November 2018 00: 19
              We are truly strong in undermining the motivation of the people to fight the surrounding mess. The other day I heard on Russia24 about our successes in sports - "our guys blah blah blah achieved success blah blah blah, after the doping scandals that erupted ... after being used by our athletes ...". Know comments.
            3. 0
              5 November 2018 17: 14
              In rhythmic gymnastics, and female figure skating. It seems to be still
          8. +5
            3 November 2018 22: 17
            Ilya-spb! It seems to me that these stuffing is a means of psychological pressure This is not a stuffing, it’s true, or rather, the truth is only about the fleet, the rest is still waiting for an analysis like this.
          9. -9
            4 November 2018 09: 43
            Quote: Ilya-spb
            It seems to me that these stuffing is a means of psychological pressure on society and on leadership. Especially - before the meeting of Putin and Trump.

            Absolutely right ! Even on our VO website, this is very noticeable .. Already a cohort of whiners and all-propals have been brought up with us by some "tovaischi" ..
            Yes, there are a lot of problems in Russia, and we know that .. we are surrounded by NATO bases and a strong Russia is dangerous for usurers and other bloody scumbags.!
            These are the things in the fleet .. And the Navy we will definitely restore! soldier
          10. The comment was deleted.
            1. 0
              5 November 2018 04: 08
              Quote: irina-kyge
              a magnetic field is created in the form of a funnel, which neutralizes the effect of gravity

              Is there any formula for the interaction of the magnetic and gravitational fields? feel Well, or at least what are these fields? And then maybe in vain they rejoice that the Higgs boson is finally fixed? Now turnips are scratching - what to do with all this ...

              PS I think - something familiar ... mercury ... is spinning ... Exactly! - vimana.
          11. -1
            4 November 2018 19: 55
            ours are watched no worse, if not better. my late warden spent half his life aboard ships, testing equipment for tracking submarines. I will not say the principle of action. to hell with you
            1. -1
              5 November 2018 09: 54
              We have these works since the beginning of 80-x went, but the problem is that now almost everything has been done, and with the American level is incomparable.
          12. t-4
            +1
            5 November 2018 01: 07
            Not being a great expert on naval affairs, there is a desire to agree with the author of the article that everything is not very good in our Navy, to say the least.
            When did our admiral triumph in a naval battle? The latter, still with a sailing fleet, dates from 1853 (Admiral Nakhimov). All. Since then, all victories did not exceed the level of captain of the 3rd rank.
            And 165 years and two World Wars have passed since Nakhimov’s time. Where was the Russian fleet all this time and what did the admirals do?
            The author blames the current deplorable situation in the Navy -
            ... all for about the last 12-13 years

            Or maybe not 12-13 years, all 120-130?
            PS.
            Here I am tormented by vague doubts that even the ocean-going fleet of the USSR in the early 80s would not have waited for Tsushima if it had started.
          13. 0
            7 November 2018 15: 49
            Quote: Ilya-spb
            Especially - before the meeting of Putin and Trump.

            Continue to believe in your dreams of our well-being .... Where is she this meeting ?!
        2. -26
          3 November 2018 12: 46
          The article is not that pan-prophetic, but just a cheap order. This is visible per kilometer. The author relishes the topic of how NATO aircraft easily detect our submarines. But that’s the whole charm of submarines that the enemy detects only a certain object under water, that it’s a nuclear submarine stuffed with nuclear missiles or a false torpedo or a special bathyscaphe that gives special signals to the air. About the heat traps that the plane throws the author of the article heard interesting? It is the same. It is clear that the Russian Navy still has a lot of problems that need to be solved, but to write this ........ negative
          1. +27
            3 November 2018 14: 32
            Dear Sergey, if you understood how much you lose face or show your ignorance with such a comment in front of officers and engineers, even if you were obligated to write such a thing for money, you would not write such a thing. You should not write about what you do not know, well, especially about how
            bathyscaphe specially broadcasts signals

            To create a false hydrodynamic goal is not an easy task, but now there are no such devices. They were made once in the 60-70s, but in the 90s they turned into dust. I am writing about what I know in my service.
            1. +12
              3 November 2018 21: 40
              You answered correctly to Sergei Obolensky, who really should be ashamed of such an illiterate comment. If he understood what nonsense he wrote, he would have burned out of shame, but most likely he and others like him would remain in their opinion. I’m just struck by the ignorance of our people, that stream of cheers-patriotic speeches that pours from TV does its job, and it only annoys people who know it.
              1. +15
                3 November 2018 22: 11
                Quote: Fan-Fan
                I’m just struck by the ignorance of our people, that stream of cheers-patriotic speeches that flows from TV does its job

                so they get money for it, their task is to rub glasses until their eyes burst. If they told 30% of the truth of everyday, rather than retouched, by the box, then where is that rating, where are those 70%. Scolding the population is a strategic task of the authorities.
            2. +3
              4 November 2018 08: 12
              ... many years ago he was in * partisans * ... The battalion commander took 2 bent electrodes with the letter G and went slowly - the electrodes in his hands turned in one place, here a disconnected cable lies underground - he explained to us ... * Dowsers * use this to search for water .. So it’s not so simple .. I myself chose the place for the well in the country ..- with bent electrodes .., I believe that the sensitivity of the electronic device is much higher than my hands ..
              1. 0
                4 November 2018 19: 02
                Don't tell me ver_ (faith), the hands are a very sensitive "sensor" if given proper training. I knew one geophysicist who experimented with the selection of capacitors to the oscillatory circuit (instead of frames) in order to respond to certain anomalies, but something died out for him. I also worked for water and successfully, once a whole month they gave milk to drink for free, in gratitude. Only I conducted a deliberate search. I studied the geology of the place, figured out what could be a water reservoir and looked for exactly these elements, imagining them as they look. I tried to determine the over-the-horizon planes that were landing. The line cut of the frames moved and "rested" on the plane that appeared in the field of view. Hands work closely with the head and that's the point !!!
                1. 0
                  11 November 2018 03: 29
                  ... you know that there are 17 * types * of water .., there is * heavy water * - you drink it - it is not absorbed by the body. and the seeds do not germinate., the water in the trees does not turn into ice and at -40 ... * cirrus clouds * do not turn into ice (as far as I remember, where they live - * crazy minus *) ..
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. 0
            3 November 2018 18: 27
            So they check the found wave anomalies by dumping the RGAB.
            1. -1
              4 November 2018 15: 01
              Author!
              What are you talking about!

              Buoys on ice in the Arctic dumped ???
              What is the range and how many do they need to cover the Arctic ???
              Nothing that these are essentially ordinary sonars and you need to use them, knowing the alleged location of the submarine ???

              What are the wave anomalies ??? Gravity, as in the article ??? laughing
              Have you even finished school? Well, at least for the C grade ...
              1. +1
                5 November 2018 09: 55
                It feels like you just don’t read what you are commenting on.
          4. +2
            4 November 2018 16: 44
            Quote: Proxima
            special bathyscaphe that gives out special signals on the air

            And falls by a swift jack ...
        3. +1
          3 November 2018 18: 36
          This is looking in whose hands the loot.
        4. +4
          4 November 2018 18: 17
          Oh yeah!!! There is not enough qualified personnel !!! I don’t want to write where, but this is a very (VERY IMPORTANT) place (I don’t point out so that who doesn’t need to - they don’t guess ... although ... everywhere it is) - the youngest toolmaker has already turned half a year ... In KB - and older already, yoman ... And there is no one to teach !!! Victims, the Unified State Exam, of course ... But after a month or two or three they leave (no knowledge, no skills, they don't want to study, but the salary is not satisfactory (to get a bonus, you have to work and plow for 12-14 hours) .. ... I do not know if anyone will read this post, but the question is very IMPORTANT !!! To take the baton to SOMEONE !!! Vocational school - "killed" .... Colleges are now preparing bezegeshnikov for universities .... Shame ... The profession of the WORKER was so humiliated that there are no words .... What's next ????
        5. +2
          4 November 2018 22: 47
          Where did the staff come from with this attitude towards them. Salaries are scanty, no prospects ... Salvage does not win, but you cannot live without it!
      2. +46
        3 November 2018 07: 14
        To the thunder of fanfare and the splendor of the main maritime parades, one "modest" fact left the attention of the public: Russia cannot build warships of the classes it needs. Almost none. - from article

        All the trouble of Russia is the compradorism and non-professionalism of everyone and everything in the leadership of the state, the Defense Ministry, the Army and Navy, the defense industry, etc.
        What can be expected from the country's leadership when the Prime Minister of the Russian Government Medvedev declares that tax collection is the basis of the country's economic development ?! Not industrial and agricultural production and its growth and development is the basis of the economy, but the collection of taxes, which are then "sawed" in the budget, plundered, and sent into US securities. (Article "Dmitry Medvedev: the basis of Russia's economic development is tax collection, not modernization." -a-ne-modernizaciia-5bd67f75ff5f2d00a947938f
        All this is sad!
        1. +57
          3 November 2018 07: 45
          -All the trouble of Russia in compradorism and non-professionalism of everyone and everything in the leadership of the state, Defense Ministry, Army and Navy, defense industry, etc. -

          Yes, for example, media figures - the Head of the National Guard of the Russian Federation holds a grandson for permanent residence in the UK. A fighter with the West, the Strizhenov family keep their daughter and grandson in the United States, visit them. Senator Mizulina holds her children and grandchildren in the UK and Belgium, State Duma deputy Rodnina keeps her daughter in the USA .And so on. These persons do not believe in the slogans and statements announced by them.
          1. +8
            3 November 2018 15: 36
            Quote: gunnerminer
            -All the trouble of Russia in compradorism and non-professionalism of everyone and everything in the leadership of the state, Defense Ministry, Army and Navy, defense industry, etc. -

            Yes, for example, media figures - the Head of the National Guard of the Russian Federation holds a grandson for permanent residence in the UK. A fighter with the West, the Strizhenov family keep their daughter and grandson in the United States, visit them. Senator Mizulina holds her children and grandchildren in the UK and Belgium, State Duma deputy Rodnina keeps her daughter in the USA .And so on. These persons do not believe in the slogans and statements announced by them.

            And they don’t need it. They need the majority of the population of the Russian Federation to believe in these slogans and statements. Let's dissuade those who still believe. hi
      3. +11
        3 November 2018 08: 02
        So the finest hour of manual control comes: This time again, the superior bosses will become heroes, without them, the power vertical. But how did this situation develop ?, what would everyone just decide from Moscow, do not teach the rest of the enemies who created this for 20 years of vertical ?! and where usually everyone draws on such a plane ?, isn’t the abyss steep down?
        1. +13
          3 November 2018 08: 27
          Yes, let it be at least manually someone will start to manage already.
          1. +7
            3 November 2018 21: 45
            I no longer believe that someone will do something, I just think that we need a different president, this one has already proved that he cannot or does not want or cannot.
            1. +1
              4 November 2018 16: 46
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              I no longer believe that someone will do something, I just think that we need a different president, this one has already proved that he cannot or does not want or cannot.

              The president is an official; nothing will change much when oligarchs rule the country. This is a problem of system, not of man.
          2. -12
            3 November 2018 23: 57
            "Yes, let someone start to manage by hand already." Well, you'll wait for you in the managers. But to "teach" others - Always please! And it’s not in your mind, judging by the article, this is. You can only reveal the flaws with the “rough” language of the poster.
            You can’t smack nonsense, it hurts, in the sense I’m a manager and I work very responsibly in my work. wink
            1. +7
              4 November 2018 00: 20
              Quote: Gray
              And it’s not my mind, judging by the article, it’s

              Quote: Gray
              I mean, I’m a manager and I work very responsibly.

              It can be seen. Except blah blah blah, no use for comment.
              1. -13
                4 November 2018 00: 30
                The beacon of reason flashed with a lack of upbringing. The result of the fact that you were "treated" by podzhopniki at school, whining from around the corner. I did not touch you, the saying is right, don't touch the fertilizer, it won't stink. Mordvin he is Mordvin.
                1. +6
                  4 November 2018 01: 48
                  Quote: Gray
                  The light of reason flashed with a lack of good manners. The result of the fact that you were "treated" by assholes at school, whining from around the corner

                  Look in the mirror, educated man.
            2. +1
              5 November 2018 03: 40
              ... chi sho - is there such a profession - manager? ...
              1. 0
                5 November 2018 09: 56
                Creative manager laughing
                1. 0
                  5 November 2018 10: 47
                  ... like Chubais, or Egorushka Gaidar ... was ..
      4. -26
        3 November 2018 11: 09
        First, replace the people responsible for these failures with others. This is fundamentally important.

        And who is the replacement? Chubais-managers ..))
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        a mess in the space industry. the impression of wrecking, jerking from side to side, embezzlement of gigantic means, constant corruption. scandals ... Modern Russia is not happy.

        Yurievich, you urgently need to emigrate! How do you live in "this country" ..? Horror crying
        But I like it and I feel that we will break through. But I don’t like nagging, I don’t need to kick the country and power ... hi

        These are the things in the construction battalion of Russia! soldier
        1. +13
          3 November 2018 14: 16
          It’s not necessary to cut the budget in general, it’s possible, for example, to become an oligarch from a trainer of a judoka overnight) Russia is a country of opportunities))
          1. +13
            3 November 2018 15: 30
            As you do not understand, the coach turned out to be a talented businessman. Suddenly.
            Maybe this aura covers all around the Guarantor - it increases talents many times. Maybe he's a miracle worker.
            1. -1
              6 November 2018 13: 26
              .. well yes - manages places in PARADISE ..
        2. -1
          3 November 2018 15: 48
          Quote: Dr. Alban-M
          First, replace the people responsible for these failures with others. This is fundamentally important.

          And who is the replacement? Chubais-managers ..))
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          a mess in the space industry. the impression of wrecking, jerking from side to side, embezzlement of gigantic means, constant corruption. scandals ... Modern Russia is not happy.

          Yurievich, you urgently need to emigrate! How do you live in "this country" ..? Horror crying
          But I like it and I feel that we will break through. But I don’t like nagging, I don’t need to kick the country and power ... hi

          These are the things in the construction battalion of Russia! soldier

          I will support! "It is not necessary to kick the country and the government with a special mind." Any no-brainer understands that a special mind needs the power to love and lick, whatever she does (as one citizen wrote here: I am loyal to the government and this is my choice). So yes, for this a special mind is needed, but not everyone is given. For me personally, such a special mind, what to do, is not given. Yes, and somehow suspiciously, recently, many of us are recruited. And not only on the VO website, but simply meets in life, we strive to kick the power, and even in a perverted form, then we come up with an anecdote about power (and even himself, you know who), then we refuse to believe our ears, but we believe our eyes and so on. the more we scold. Ungrateful. Well, what to take from us, I also say: we are not given a special mind request
        3. +3
          4 November 2018 17: 00
          Quote: Dr. Alban-M
          First, replace the people responsible for these failures with others. This is fundamentally important.

          And who is the replacement? Chubais-managers ..))
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          a mess in the space industry. the impression of wrecking, jerking from side to side, embezzlement of gigantic means, constant corruption. scandals ... Modern Russia is not happy.

          Yurievich, you urgently need to emigrate! How do you live in "this country" ..? Horror crying
          But I like it and I feel that we will break through. But I don’t like nagging, I don’t need to kick the country and power ... hi

          These are the things in the construction battalion of Russia! soldier

          Of course, we will break through if everything continues to be like after a salad with expired mayonnaise
      5. wax
        0
        4 November 2018 10: 26
        Systemic crisis of thinking and behavior: sloppiness, irresponsibility, non-fulfillment and cleverness in the absence of adequate articles for planting. It began with Chernobyl and perestroika.
      6. +5
        4 November 2018 23: 00
        I do not agree with you. Russia pleases and how else. The state of billionaires and officials is growing regardless of the state of the fleet, aviation, the space industry and the people in general. Moreover, it is growing at an accelerated, I would say, pace.
    2. +10
      3 November 2018 06: 39
      We need a trained personnel reserve. The command staff of all categories. It will be quite difficult to recruit and prepare it. Since the overwhelming majority of graduates of medium and high sailors escaped to work for foreign shipowners. They are found through recruiting agencies and from the pre-graduation course they are recruited through an increased scholarship . Especially persistently recruit well and well-trained cadets who are intensively engaged in the study of English.
    3. -11
      3 November 2018 09: 29
      It’s time for the fleet to engage in planned combat training. You have to buy a sedative. Report on the implementation.)))))
      1. +31
        3 November 2018 10: 14
        I love hurray-patriots. But not when they act like an idiot, but when life leads to checking everything out. I had such a friend, after the first business trip to Chechnya, I forgot how to smile forever. Although it would seem everyone understood everything, but the man had a number of patriotic illusions ...

        The fleet is engaged in combat training, but there are almost no ships in it. Did this fact pass you by?
        1. -15
          3 November 2018 11: 21
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          The fleet is engaged in combat training, but there are almost no ships in it. Did this fact pass you by?

          I read recently that the price of yachts of "our" oligarchs is several times higher than the cost of the Russian Navy ..
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          I had such a friend, after the first business trip to Chechnya, I forgot how to smile forever.

          Why was ..? I just saw the war in all its "glory" as a soldier. Blood, dirt, betrayal and death are senseless and cruel.?
          It always has been and will be! But they conquered Chechnya .. And so it will be with everyone.
          1. +21
            3 November 2018 14: 17
            Who conquered? You yourself are not funny? Heaped up with money, only now bad luck the money began to run out ...
            1. -7
              3 November 2018 14: 52
              Quote: Adagka
              Who conquered? You yourself are not funny? Heaped up with money, only now bad luck the money began to run out ...

              Do you offer to destroy everyone in Chechnya ??? Is your hand going up ??? Punishing is easier than educating ... Well ... I gave it to Kinder and you're done! And the upbringing process is not fast and expensive.
              1. +1
                3 November 2018 16: 09
                Quote: 30 vis
                Well ... I gave it to Kinder and you're done! And the upbringing process is not fast and expensive.

                Who would anyone. gave. Especially at the beginning of the 90's.
                1. -3
                  3 November 2018 16: 27
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Who would anyone. gave. Especially at the beginning of the 90's.

                  It’s all about education, and not just about Chechnya ... Chen anyway brought under the hands of the state. Through Kadyrov, or another local prince. It was instituted there so to submit to its own ... And that to the Kremlin. What else is needed.
          2. +13
            3 November 2018 19: 41
            Quote: Dr. Alban-M
            But they conquered Chechnya ..

            Do you know that Chechnya is one of the three most subsidized regions in Russia? Maybe we paid off her? Or maybe we pay tribute?
    4. +9
      3 November 2018 10: 29
      Effective managers in the management of the fleet will bring him to a complete zugunder. And what to do, this is how our system of managing the entire state is arranged and the Guarantor is always on the alert.winked
      1. +9
        3 November 2018 11: 06
        Well, in general, in the army and the VKS, the situation is much better. The fleet, by its level of problems, clearly stands out from the general average level and not for the better.
        1. +1
          3 November 2018 16: 44
          "The commander of the 2nd Combined Arms Army conducted an excursion" - type it in YouTube - I can't squeeze the link - I'm not strong
          1. +1
            3 November 2018 18: 29
            I have seen. But this is an atypical case in practice, and the cases in that brigade were later corrected.
            1. 0
              3 November 2018 18: 34
              explain the situation of pozhalst :): with whom did the army (3) persuade the brigade commander to put things in order, called for conscience ... and brought everything to the general ... what's in the army like at school? - don't you look at the subordinate? or the army subordinate to the brigade? - I missed something?
              1. 0
                3 November 2018 22: 38
                And what can the commander do with the combination train? The one just to go down a rank should descend steadily for months, not follow orders, etc.
                I don’t know how it ended up with just that cobiriq, but a year after the video (not displaying it on youtube, but taking it off), the brigade turned out to be one of the best in the army. The life-giving power of 3,14dders worked, apparently.
                Although it was in Svetly, there was a case in the missile division, the year did not work, but oh well.
    5. 0
      4 November 2018 18: 12
      Yes, that’s exactly how it is, even more likely worse.
      This year, not one bookmark of the 2nd rank warship was in my opinion.
    6. 0
      6 November 2018 02: 54
      Friendly! Hello! Complete shit is going on on the site !!! "skulls" .... ride on the brains of ordinary people !!! It's a shame !!! IF YOU ARE NOT STUPID .... hi
    7. 0
      22 November 2021 12: 10
      This is how Timokhin sees it, but this is not the last instance for the truth!
  2. +27
    3 November 2018 05: 50
    The article is sad and seems to reflect the situation today. I would like to read the comment of Andrey from the Ural city.
  3. -18
    3 November 2018 06: 33
    It is necessary for the author to instill valerian, or else he’s got hysterical in hysterics. Well, the style is very similar to the character of Ilf and Petrov, who all shouted about the dice. laughing
    But the concern is understandable. There are enough problems.
    For minesweepers, the problem is known. The available ones are basically practically not able to detect new types of mines. More or less new 3 pieces and one new Alexandrite in the ranks. Another test. 4 is under construction. In total, less than a dozen, but about 40 are needed. 2 more are ordered. But Sredne-Nevsky promises to hand over a minesweeper a year. After the end of this contract there will be the following. Work is underway, in a few years there will be a pair of minesweepers in each fleet - this is not so bad. request
    By submarines. Enemy anti-submarine aircraft do not fly apart near our coasts. All fleet bases are already covered with s400, plus fighter jets. But in the ocean, it really poses a major threat to our submariners. The mattresses are not in vain concluded large contracts for Poseidon, plus the Norwegians also bought them. This is a relatively cheap anti-submarine patrol. It is clear that the whole world ocean cannot be covered by them. but important areas are quite. How to counteract them - xs. I can only assume that soon full-fledged air defense missiles should appear on new submarines. If the cr are capable of being launched from under water, then it means that the air defense system may well do the same. It is unlikely that the range of detection of a submarine by an anti-submarine aircraft is greater than the range of an air defense system. request
    In general, the author puts the cart across the horse. The problem is not in the ships themselves or their number. The problem is that our shipyards cannot yet provide a complete and efficient construction and ship repair cycle. And the task is not to build a bunch of wunderwaffles, but to bring the shipyards and industry to such a state that they can build what the fleet wants. Accordingly, this is what everyone is doing in the first place. Shipyards are being modernized, staff is being recruited and trained. Ship designs are being developed that shipyards must master. The problems of import substitution, production of components and finances of enterprises are being resolved. Because in order to build ships, it is necessary that there is something to build, where to build and to whom to build. Again, staff should gain experience. You can do this in only one way - you need to build. Now about a hundred ships, surface and submarines are under construction at the same time. This is a lot. We have not had such a pace for a long time. The road will be overcome by a walker
    By the way, I’m sure that next year they will lay the next 20386, and in general they will order at least 6 pieces, although amendments to the project itself are possible according to the results of tests of the lead ship. wink Well, 20160 in my opinion will very soon become the most used ships of all. I think that they will very quickly become leaders in terms of distance and time spent hiking.
    1. +18
      3 November 2018 06: 41
      The author comments on the situation with naval construction, without delving into issues of maritime and coastal infrastructure, the state of combat training, mobilization and personnel shortages. It smoothes corners to the maximum.
      1. +4
        3 November 2018 06: 47
        you are 100% right ...
      2. +6
        3 November 2018 08: 27
        And so the article turned out great.
        1. 0
          3 November 2018 15: 30
          And it just went to minus. Each item should be considered separately, and not interfere in a heap, generously pouring emotions. In my opinion, the consideration should be this. Sounding a problem - setting a problem - finding a solution. And we all know how to cry. That's just the benefit of such cries Yaroslavna in my memory has not yet brought.
          By the way, I received a warning for the comment, although I didn’t allow any kind of insults. If I offended - I apologize. hi
    2. +1
      3 November 2018 06: 44
      - range and time spent on hikes. -

      This project has a high coastal attachment. It is compounded by the complete absence of even plans for the construction of floating bases, PRTB, modern floating workshops and other supporting equipment for these ships. There is nothing to provide air defense for these ships, especially in the areas of patrol. intelligence.
    3. +1
      3 November 2018 06: 47
      -Develops of ships that shipyards must master. The problems of import substitution, production of components and finances of enterprises are being resolved. -

      At an inconspicuous pace, by no means conducive to a noticeable increase in the combat readiness of the fleets. The KTOF is especially behind.
      1. +7
        3 November 2018 07: 14
        Quite a serious pace for such large-scale tasks. As problems are solved, the speed of solving the rest will increase.
        By xnumx. Autonomy time - 20160 days. Good seaworthiness. It is enough to not be tied to the shore. The main tasks of this ship do not imply the binding of enemy aircraft. This is a ship for everyday fleet tasks. For those for whom we drove bpk in recent years, as a result of which their resource was killed. Anti-piracy missions, a demonstration of the flag, the transfer of the SSO forces, the patrolling of the areas we need, the detention of cargo ships or escort of our own, etc. Tch these ships - workhorses for everyday service. request
        The design of the workshop is under development. Strong unification with other types of ships is planned. The project will be ready - there will be orders. So far, so enough to order. We have ships of 40-50 years old on most fleets. And I do not take unique ones like the Commune. They need to be changed. At the same time, these projects and shipyards are being put in order. I repeat. A hundred ships and ships under construction for the Navy - this is already a considerable fleet in itself. And as the construction progresses, there will clearly be new bookmarks. At least a lot of things have been contracted.
        1. +4
          3 November 2018 07: 20
          - Hundreds of ships and ships under construction for the Navy - this in itself is a considerable fleet. -

          This is taking into account boats and katerkov, including the promised ones.
          1. +4
            3 November 2018 15: 33
            This is taking into account two missile boats and four anti-sabotage boats. Auxiliary boats and small patrol raptors and bk are not included in this figure. Ships for the FSB are not counted either. request
            1. -3
              3 November 2018 23: 33
              The FSB has nothing to do with solving the tasks of the Navy.
              1. 0
                5 November 2018 07: 37
                True, but the same shipyards and especially specialists are engaged in their construction, which is typical. We don't have a lot of construction specialists. While the young growth is still "ripe" ...
        2. +4
          3 November 2018 07: 29
          - Battery life - 60 days. Good seaworthiness. It is enough to not be tied to the shore. The main objectives of this ship do not imply binding to enemy aircraft.

          60 days, subject to food replenishment, even long-term storage, and fuels and lubricants. The enemy’s aviation itself searches for targets, and flies in for their attack, not passively waiting when it is tied by the crew of the project 22160 ship.

          -For those for whom we have chased the BPC in recent years, -

          The BOD has tasks that are different from the ships of the project 22160. They complement each other. But they are not opposed.

          - Anti-piracy missions, demonstration of the flag, casting off SSO forces, -

          Not even auxiliary functions. Providing the CCC with such means only against the enemy such as bearded youth, without their manned aviation. Demonstrate the flag without the ability to implement threats, this is a calculation for Petrushka / Pancha.

          - detention of cargo ships -

          Currently, the Navy has already detained four vessels. Together with the crews. Not the Russian Navy.

          -The design of the workshop is being developed-

          For the customer, the delivery time and quality of work is important, not stories about the process and plans of the manufacturer. There is not one modern floating workshop in the Russian Navy. And it is not planned to accept it.
          1. 0
            3 November 2018 15: 43
            This is a ship for everyday tasks. It seems to be clearly written. No? In the event of war, he will receive other modules, but his main purpose is precisely everyday tasks.
            The Navy has not detained a single ship yet. Detained by the Ukrainian coast guard, which is formally in its own right. Our Coast Guard is also detaining ships. PM is not a military question, but a political one. Well, in general, the Ukrainians did a stupid thing that led to the actual blockade of their Azov ports, as well as serious financial losses to their metallurgists. For some reason, the "decisive action" that couch commentators call for always ends like this.
            The rest of the comment is water.
            1. -1
              3 November 2018 18: 30
              What are "day to day tasks"?
              1. +1
                5 November 2018 07: 45
                Yes, the same Somali pirates to drive ... Using "Peter the Great" in order to drive pirates on inflatable boats with rusty Kalash, from which it is scary to shoot - truly epic. And after all, in fact, they were forced - there were not so many ships on the move at that time. And in the Sea of ​​Azov, for example, if something happens - will we drive corvettes?
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              3 November 2018 23: 30
              -In case of war, he will receive other modules, but his main purpose is just everyday tasks. -

              These modules exist in the promises. What kind of tactical innovation are everyday tasks? And what then are the tasks of the day off?
            3. 0
              3 November 2018 23: 32
              -Our coast guard also delays ships. -
              Niodin bulk carrier with general cargo belonging to the Ukrainian shipowner by the authorities of the Russian Federation, FSB, Navy has not been detained.
        3. +3
          3 November 2018 07: 30
          - At the same time, these projects and shipyards are being put in order. I repeat .-

          It can be seen how the shipyards are put in order. This process will begin, with the appearance of a stream of trained workers, craftsmen, engineers. What is not observed with a microscope.
          1. -2
            3 November 2018 15: 44
            It’s bad that you don’t see, so do not follow the affairs of the industry. Then what to talk about?
        4. +2
          3 November 2018 08: 26
          - Anti-piracy missions -

          The presence of security on board, in the amount of about 4 people, with automatic rifled small arms and 300 rounds per horse, is enough for reliable protection of the crew and cargo. As can be seen from practice. In the control form MCHOA HRA even included a point for the captain, he requires passage in the convoy or not. If there is armed guard, participation in the convoy, international or national, is not required.
      2. +10
        3 November 2018 11: 45
        CTOF will soon be renamed into the flotilla at the time.
        1. +2
          3 November 2018 13: 52
          There is such a tendency. It looks especially contrasted against the background of the South Korean and Chinese fleets.
          1. +3
            3 November 2018 18: 31
            Yes, and against the background of Japanese. The South Korean is still so-so, except for the Sejons, but the Yapas are a completely different matter.
            1. -2
              3 November 2018 23: 29
              South Korean boats are being built quite well. Judging by the pace of construction, they are unlikely to be promising. Another enemy for KTOF is a lack of support vessels and reconnaissance equipment for military sailors.
    4. -1
      3 November 2018 07: 42
      - Well, 20160, in my opinion, will very soon become the most used ships of all. I think that they will very quickly become leaders in terms of distance and time spent hiking .-

      It is unlikely. Given the shortage of crews, the condition of ship repair enterprises, the timing of repairs.
    5. +4
      3 November 2018 12: 38
      The author shows the picture that is now. You say what will happen in a year, two, sometime. There is a difference? Do not reassure yourself with non-existing ships, systems, airplanes.
      1. -1
        3 November 2018 13: 52
        A year or two is too tiny a period for the beginning of the trend for the development of the fleet.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. The comment was deleted.
  4. -23
    3 November 2018 06: 42
    This is actually an ideal storm, a system that has gone into singularity, into "dressing." All crisis phenomena in peak form and at the same time. The collapse of the fleet, the complete collapse of everything that still holds in it.

    ... an article from a series of all-crawler ... only the crap one is all gone bad ...
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. -3
      3 November 2018 06: 46
      The ship church is only on the flagship cruiser Aurora.
      1. -13
        3 November 2018 12: 48
        The white donkey cameraman, the brave submariner from Haifa / Odessa / Kazakhstan (underline as necessary), the Helkhavir patriot, the specialist in soldier's shoes and indeed the expert in everything and everything - the legendary Gunya (aka Liar), having made a mess of all thematic forums, LJ began to master new platforms. Gentlemen moderators - do not disgrace the site - send it to the eternal ban before it is too late !!!
        1. -2
          3 November 2018 13: 55
          I wish you good luck in the matter of naval construction. And a successful career.
  6. +13
    3 November 2018 06: 49
    Actually, when I started reading, I thought it was Andrey from Chelyabinsk smile !
    Chic like article good
    Only, in my opinion, the root of today's problems is not "putinslil", but the drain of our entire state system in the 90s. The real "EBNsliv", to which monuments are being built ... The current state is only the consequences of the collapse of the country and reformatting installations ...
    So, either change the system, or prostrate yourself in front of the "racial patriots" (with excuses like "well, he made money - selling what used to belong to people, that is, more or less, if not without flaws, but a fair state), who cure in Courchevel, buy yachts the size of a modern frigate and English football clubs and fly their own planes ... request
    This article is one of the few "voices of one crying in the wilderness" recourse ...Alas.....
    hi
  7. 0
    3 November 2018 06: 50
    -when the army, navy and VKS will have to compete for a mobilization resource and people, -

    As Sovcomflot develops, the number of its LNG tankers increases, where is the third assistant to the captain or the fourth mechanic with money allowance like that of the commander of a nuclear submarine on the KSF.
    1. 0
      3 November 2018 08: 26
      No need - a controlling stake in Sovcomflot is planned to be sold to the Chinese. Negotiations are ongoing.
      1. -3
        3 November 2018 08: 31
        The Chinese are currently recruiting crews from Russia and Ukraine for their LNG and LPG. Their staff is not enough. This is a question for at least ten years. It is especially difficult for them to find personnel for the positions of capiatan, senior assistant, senior mechanic, second mechanic, gas engineer and electrician.
        1. 0
          3 November 2018 20: 12
          recruited crews from Russia and Ukraine


          What crews? So, individual specialists. And almost never higher than the second assistant, in extreme cases, my grandfather. But this has nothing to do with the personnel of the Navy. A completely different level of training and qualifications. Just different planets.
          1. -1
            3 November 2018 23: 27
            -But to the personnel of the Navy it has no -

            It has the most direct. Instead of entering the Navy's Military Research Center, the candidate goes to a seafarer. And then earn money under a foreign flag, Hong Kong or Marshal’s currency. Even when S. Menyaylo served at the KChF, with the rank of vice admiral, he complained about the lack of contract. Candidates sought to be recruited to Novoship and Sovcomflot.
    2. 0
      3 November 2018 19: 34
      Well, you got excited about it of course.
  8. +1
    3 November 2018 06: 54
    -Otherwise, we just have to wait for the next Tsushima and wait for her .-

    Tsushima will be innovative. From the rear. Without the use of ammunition and the cost of personnel resources and ships of probable partners. Structures that make decisions on financing and staffing of USC enterprises, educational institutions, including naval ones, do not suffer from excessive flotation. Enough residents of St. Petersburg and the region walk along Lermontovsky Avenue or along the Embankment of Lieutenant Schmidt, 12 lines of the Vasilievsky Island and look at the appearance of the VUNC buildings.
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 12: 43
      and there’s nothing special to look at ... except for the burnt roof of the admiral's corridor and the compass hall of the former frunzovka ...
      1. +2
        3 November 2018 13: 49
        In April 2018, at the anniversary of VMUPP, graduates were not allowed to enter the foyer of the main dormitory, the galley. They were not allowed to enter the club. They did not want to show the condition of the buildings from the inside. The repair was not 50 years old.
  9. +9
    3 November 2018 06: 58
    Great article: thorough, detailed, bitter, truthful !!!
  10. +3
    3 November 2018 06: 59
    -From increasing the frequency of torpedo firing -

    When UGST torpedoes arrive in the amount of 20 products for all fleets, it is a rather difficult task. And the frequency of ammunition firing is regulated by the requirements of the combat training course of submarines, ships, the requirements of the ICP (Rules of the mine service), PAS (Rules of the artillery service), PRS (Rules of the missile services), Directives of the chiefs of fleet departments and the annual plan for the combat training of formations and ships.
  11. +11
    3 November 2018 07: 00
    - Probably, this time it will not be possible to do without “manual control” from the side of the president and the minister of defense, this crisis itself will not “resolve” .-

    Manual control is just evidence of loss of control. Since 1 August 2000, 18 years have passed. And such a bleak result.
    1. +3
      3 November 2018 07: 45
      This time again, the superior bosses will become heroes, without them, the power vertical. But how did this situation develop ?, what would everyone just decide from Moscow, do not teach the rest of the enemies who created this for 20 years of vertical ?! and where usually everyone draws on such a plane ?, isn’t the abyss steep down?
      1. +4
        3 November 2018 22: 07
        What to do? How to taxi out of this situation? And I will say - the main thing needs to be changed, the fish rots from the head.
  12. -1
    3 November 2018 07: 03
    -It should be borne in mind that this time all of the above is superimposed on the growth of military danger -

    Yes, NATO is hitting the butt with a butt. If the construction of the fleet continues, it only remains for him to observe the situation, shaking it louder and louder.
  13. -1
    3 November 2018 07: 06
    -but the crews of the submarines still lack experience in their use and the statistics of firing is very small.

    Controversial issue. For a quarterly analysis of the torpedo preparation of the compound is enough.
    1. +6
      3 November 2018 08: 19
      Yes, they have just started to receive "Physicist". This is if you compare "in general". And if we compare the ice shooting, then we have there just zero, and the amers have ICEX exercises every couple of years with a huge volume of shooting.
      1. -1
        3 November 2018 08: 36
        About a year ago, this product has been operating at KChF. The main shooting indicator (success, number of defective moves, heading angles, number, firing range, detection range) is formed from statistics of combat exercises according to the course of combat training. Annually, and not according to the results of exercises once every two years. Like in other leading fleets of the world. The exercises may have different subjects and tasks, torpedo firing as an element of the legend of the exercise.
        1. 0
          3 November 2018 09: 25
          How about under ice shooting in the Arctic, for example? How about comparing with Americans and Mk.48?
          1. -1
            3 November 2018 13: 47
            For under-ice firing, submarine commanders with experience in navigating under ice floes are needed. Then we will begin to carry out combat exercises. At present, the commanders of a few MAPL KSF have no experience in swimming, and especially torpedo firing in such conditions. Even with the elder on board.
            1. 0
              3 November 2018 18: 33
              Well, swimming is not sure, by the way.
              But in shooting exactly zero.
  14. +10
    3 November 2018 07: 09
    The key word is sabotage ... a small official in the department of material and technical planning can demolish almost any re-equipment program ... Just by turning off the necessary machine from the application ...
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 08: 18
      Similar things are happening, by the way.
  15. +6
    3 November 2018 07: 19
    And against the background of the drowning of the PD, so generally shout at least the guard.
  16. +4
    3 November 2018 07: 29
    That's right, only the guilty should not be removed from work, as they like to do with us, but planted, preferably for long periods.
    1. 0
      3 November 2018 07: 39
      And Stalin, too, to return to us, to complete what has been started - in Russia there are still people who are not divided into seated and guarded, completely snickering, enjoying life you see
    2. +1
      3 November 2018 07: 54
      Planting is too radical a measure, in the conditions of personnel incompetence. It is enough to send work to a lower position, to an ordinary salary. This will be worse for a guilty person than a nuclear strike.
      1. +3
        3 November 2018 08: 01
        What's the point? He will also steal there, only on a smaller scale, the connections will remain.
        1. -1
          3 November 2018 08: 21
          In a lower position, the possibility of theft will depend on the opinion of the immediate superior.
          1. -3
            3 November 2018 10: 07
            Speak knowledgeably ... share with your boss?
        2. +5
          3 November 2018 08: 29
          Practice shows that not always. There are already precedents.
    3. 0
      3 November 2018 20: 32
      I don't care if you believe in God, my son.
      - Platoon! Aim! Pli!
  17. +7
    3 November 2018 07: 32
    And what we want to do is worthy of the Olympics or the World Cup, we can. since it’s one-time, but thoughtfully forgot how to work in the future. Those who knew how to survive by age, and the young are geared to get quick results, and the fleet is not a report to write.
  18. -5
    3 November 2018 07: 35
    We drain the water and go to where it is better to feed ?, we will create our convoy to Washington, parallel to Latin America, let us show us the goals and objectives of the development of the Far East and Siberia - we will return motivated by our American friends! Very good?
  19. -11
    3 November 2018 07: 37
    Mustache is gone ?! Or is it a knight's move?
    1. +16
      3 November 2018 08: 30
      This is a stone in the window. To outside the window knew - the people are aware and require action.
    2. +3
      3 November 2018 09: 47
      Queen in the forehead, so that the ears hurt.
  20. +2
    3 November 2018 07: 58
    Quote: tun5t
    And Stalin, too, to return to us, to complete what has been started - in Russia there are still people who are not divided into seated and guarded, completely snickering, enjoying life you see

    That is, do you think that people who squander huge funds should be patted on the head? Well, well, you are our liberal.)
    1. +7
      3 November 2018 08: 38
      Do not iron. Organizational and legislatively deprive people of the opportunity to actively spend embezzlement and embezzlement. For example, the wife of the RF Ministry of Defense Serdyukov, the thief Vasiliev, did not suffer in any way, although the damage was caused by concrete defenses, quite sufficient for the Victoria Cross or Congress Medal.
    2. +1
      3 November 2018 09: 11
      This time again, the superior bosses will become heroes, without them, the power vertical. But how did this situation develop ?, what would everyone just decide from Moscow, do not teach the rest of the enemies who created this for 20 years of vertical ?! and where usually everyone draws on such a plane ?, isn’t the abyss steep down?
    3. -2
      3 November 2018 09: 14
      Who divides people into one or another - direct d'u'r'ak, comrade should know this !, all from God, or go to an animal state
      1. +3
        3 November 2018 10: 11
        Well, well, God tolerated and ordered us, the universal mantra of priests riding a Bentley and eating caviar with spoons. Something specifically God did not bother you to teach letters at the 5th grade level. Bear on.
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        3 November 2018 10: 12
        Just a little hatless
  22. +19
    3 November 2018 08: 15
    Thank you, Alexander. For the fleet I had to create a lot: radio navigation systems "Tropic", "Route", navigation systems, observation and landing on all aircraft carriers, the EV system, etc. I personally met and worked with Gorshkov. The article is deadly.
    1. +10
      3 November 2018 09: 27
      Thank you.
      Admittedly, on the one hand, everything is actually worse.
      On the other - everything can be corrected if you want.

      This is a shame - the problems are solved if they are solved. And in the fleet there are those who want and probably can solve them. It is necessary to give some impulse to the system only.
  23. +8
    3 November 2018 08: 17
    Quote: g1v2
    But Middle Nevsky promises to pass on the minesweeper a year.


    Will not work. It is already impossible.
  24. -20
    3 November 2018 08: 23
    It ran up to the mishandled, dear mother, how many of you are here tongue
    1. -7
      3 November 2018 09: 48
      This is the rsschild sponsored fse world backstage
    2. +18
      3 November 2018 10: 17
      So how should it be? To write that the Karakurt "Pella" standing at the wall without engines (there are already three of them in this form) is a victory over the world behind the scenes, right?
  25. +8
    3 November 2018 08: 25
    Quote: g1v2

    By xnumx. Autonomy time - 20160 days. Good seaworthiness. It is enough to not be tied to the shore. The main tasks of this ship do not imply the binding of enemy aircraft. This is a ship for everyday fleet tasks. For those for whom we drove bpk in recent years, as a result of which their resource was killed. Anti-piracy missions, a demonstration of the flag, the transfer of the SSO forces, the patrolling of the areas we need, the detention of cargo ships or escort of our own, etc. Tch these ships - workhorses for everyday service. request


    Not. The form of the corpus is not optimal, small speed, lower than the calculated one, and most importantly - such ships are unsuitable for fighting piracy, we have pirates in the Indian Ocean, and there is a thrill of three points, on such a wave this ship will not be able to accept either a helicopter or boat slip into.

    Quote: g1v2

    A floating design project is being developed. Planned strong unification with other types of ships. The project will be ready - there will be orders. So far, so enough to order. We have on most fleets of court age on 40-50 years. And that I do not take the type of commune. They need to be changed. At the same time on these projects and the shipyard in order are given. I repeat. Hundreds of ships and ships for the Navy under construction are already a considerable fleet.


    And with warships and naval aviation, we are also doing well, right?
  26. -22
    3 November 2018 08: 39
    What is this hat !? Not an article but some whining. If so, why haven’t we been yet given? And do not say here that everyone is afraid of our nuclear weapons. I read nonsense and not a cheat article then I looked at official sources I reviewed a bunch of sites. All that in this article is 80% simply nonsense is unsubstantiated and supported by fantasies.
    1. +9
      3 November 2018 09: 28
      We have not done so far.

      BYE is the key word.
    2. +5
      3 November 2018 11: 06
      Not paid just because of laziness. But now they have stirred overseas ...
    3. +5
      3 November 2018 19: 40
      What's the hat about? List the current fleet composition. It’s especially striking when you go to the Chinese port of Roushan and see, indeed, a fleet. Yesterday Sarych ran past me under the Chinese flag. And corvettes or something like that run around here like a taxi.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  27. +1
    3 November 2018 08: 46
    Corvette 20380, which everyone praises - is very expensive and does not meet the criterion of cost-effectiveness.
    1. +6
      3 November 2018 09: 32
      With all its disadvantages, this is the only ship that we can build "here and now". It needs to be modernized, in terms of anti-aircraft defense and air defense, to lighten it, to change the wretched PU "Packet" for a light TA with a pneumatic start, to make a controlled 100 mm shot and it will be quite a normal multi-purpose corvette.
      Expensive for IAD, but in our tasks not only IAD, and 20380 from Baltiysk to the Indian Ocean went, something can, it turns out.

      And to abandon the construction of these ships will be possible only when the concept of IAD is thought out, and when they guess to make a normal light frigate for work in the DMZ, something like the Chinese Ave. 054.

      Not before.
  28. +19
    3 November 2018 08: 47
    ... I could understand this without this article. By putting new ships into operation and their number. At the parade we show junk mostly. People have no eyes or brains. The only big ship passed in .... 12 years! Only GDP with its stupid smile is all right. I also want into its reality! ...
    1. +6
      3 November 2018 12: 55
      people like me and you are not accepted as "cosmonauts" ... only through the thorns of state security can you get to heaven with the stars ...
  29. -4
    3 November 2018 08: 56
    Here are the people. How many times it has been said that our army and navy are developing according to our military doctrine. As well as the priorities and capabilities of the military budget. The priority is the ability to repel the first missile attack. The war will begin with her. Blows will be made throughout the military infrastructure. You can have a huge amount of su57, but if after the destruction of the runways none will rise into the air? An attack on the bases of the Navy will not make it possible to fully use the fleet. The priority is air defense and missiles capable of destroying the enemy’s military infrastructure. There will be no great sea battles. Overland too. After mutual nuclear strikes, there will be no time for this.
    1. +8
      3 November 2018 09: 33
      You simplify, and very much
      1. +1
        3 November 2018 09: 52
        May recall the department Sudoplatova.
    2. +3
      3 November 2018 09: 56
      Quote: alexnmv5
      . The priority is the ability to repel the first missile attack.

      Let Kuznetsov follow the dock to the bottom. We confine ourselves to submarines with nuclear weapons, hunters, so that the adversary does not swim close, and patrol boats. Nafig nothing more.
      1. +8
        3 November 2018 10: 18
        Hooray patriots usually try to protect their imaginary worlds that exist only in their heads. Arguments do not work on them.
        1. +5
          3 November 2018 10: 23
          Well, they were told from the zombie man that they had already paid for the tickets to paradise, so they rejoice
    3. +5
      3 November 2018 11: 05
      This means that we will be drawn into battles that are disadvantageous to us without any nuclear war. Starting, for example, with the naval blockade of Syria.
      1. -1
        3 November 2018 13: 41
        - battles that are disadvantageous to us without any nuclear war. -

        As an option zafafganovaniya.
  30. +8
    3 November 2018 10: 23
    The article is the last desperate cry: KARAUL!
    Yes, but who will hear him, except those attending VO.
    It is those who are obliged to hear it, who must change the situation, led to what led.
    And good wishes it does not change ....
    1. +4
      3 November 2018 18: 38
      Not at the top there are many who are already trying to do something, including in the Main Command of the Navy.
      But on their way there is a number of bad uncles with such a level of influence that it will not be possible to understand without the intervention of the President.
      And for that you need noise.
      So I bring it as far as I can.
  31. +5
    3 November 2018 10: 24
    Quote: vladimirZ
    Medvedev declares that the basis of economic development of the state is tax collection ?!

    Cosmic nonsense and wrong goal setting. According to Medvedev, an objective assessment of the governor's work is the percentage given by the electorate for United Russia. Healthcare is a branch of the economy. Education is the provision of services. The pension, apparently, is such a gift, a bonus from the Government, "for which it is difficult."
  32. +10
    3 November 2018 10: 26
    Perhaps it’s something like this ... If our company somewhere until 2012 was still repairing its towing fleet in place in the city, there were two shipyards, then they began to drive tugboats to Kerch, Primorsko-Akhtarsk .. Novorossiysk ... From Temryuk and the port of the Caucasus to drive tugboats so far away .. for repairs. No, we have shipyards, but they don’t have a direct repair function, there are no personnel, equipment. The fleet was renewed, but what they got was built at Russian plants, but the engines are imported, the navigation is the same ... If so, comes with the civil port fleet, then what to talk about the military ...
    1. +1
      4 November 2018 17: 28
      Quote: parusnik
      If, until 2012, our company was still repairing its towing fleet, there were two ship-repair factories in place in the city, then they began to drive tugboats to Kerch, Primorsko-Akhtarsk ..

      Unfortunately, the Primorsko-Akhtarskaya shipyard has been in a coma for about 10 years.
  33. +8
    3 November 2018 10: 41
    The article is sad, but necessary.
    The only thing that is doubtful is the attraction of gravitational perturbations. Too abstruse.
    It seems to me that everything is much simpler. In this case, it is not the weight of the submarine that matters, but its volume. This huge colossus in motion pushes water, and after passing the water closes behind it. And above the moving boat a dome forms on the surface of the water, which is captured by the radar. The dome is not very big, but more than ordinary waves. It is not difficult to isolate this local rise in water. When the boat emerges the same picture, the hull squeezes a huge amount of water up and it does not immediately diverge on the sides. A relatively thin layer of ice follows the shape of the dome. When immersed, therefore, there will be a funnel.
    It is not clear from the text whether all 10 submarines were in motion or some were motionless. If you understand whether Orions respond to motionless submarines, then it would be easier to determine.
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 11: 11
      This effect is also there, R&D "Window" on radar search of submerged submarines at the Pacific Fleet worked with this effect. Semyonov, mentioned in the text, describes this effect in your own words.
      But it's not just him.
      The amerskom report also describes convective phenomena.
      And apart from the gravitational effect, the detection of the submarine through the ice cannot be explained in any way.
      1. +1
        3 November 2018 13: 47
        So the ice also repeats the shape of the surface of the water, is also bent by a dome.
        1. -2
          5 November 2018 10: 03
          But this is not to detect anything.
      2. -1
        4 November 2018 00: 45
        I wonder if Orions are capable of detecting submarines at great depths along the gravitational trail or pushed water? Nevertheless, it seems to me that not everything is so sad for our submarines at certain depths and speeds
        1. -2
          5 November 2018 10: 03
          On the emerging wake.
          1. 0
            5 November 2018 11: 19
            ON THE POP-UP ?! What is it like??? Maybe I don't know something, but how can a wake trail emerge? And then the formation of such a trace depends on many factors. It is clear that if the submarine "scratches" at 20 knots and at a depth of 50 meters, then the "loop" behind it will be decent. And if at a depth closer to the working limit and at 5 knots? Will he find it too?
      3. -1
        5 November 2018 16: 52
        By the way, your semi-secret Amer’s report gives the impression of a smoke curtain, misinformation, such as fairy tales about the Star Wars times of Reagan. They want to divert thoughts to the side.
        If they wanted to close the information, they would close it.
        1. +1
          5 November 2018 19: 53
          He was closed for decades.

          The fact is, the Americans knew what we learned. Back in the 80s, their special group carried out an attack on the head of the "Window" theme in Vladivostok, with the aim of taking away documents on the topic and seeing how the USSR had advanced.
          Then they did not work out, but, most likely, in 90's they received exhaustive data, because then everything was sold.

          Simply put - They learned that we:
          1. We know about the effect (not all)
          2. We are able to find them on their submarines, as well as they find ours.
          3. But at the same time they did not figure out how to merge the equipment for the primary processing of radar signals with a computer and software capable of giving a "picture" to the operator's screen, as a result of which the search efficiency is lower here.
          4. Well, after that, a typical post-Soviet phenomenon happened - the topic got drunk by itself, while some finished the equipment on food starvation, others simply destroyed the anti-submarine aircraft.

          I will not speculate here whether the "Novella" complex includes such possibilities, I have no admission to the topic, but I would have been, I would have kept silent at all. But there is no more sense in secreting these things to the Americans - we know everything.

          The crux of the problem is that in the last ten years the Navy began to behave as if the effect did not exist, which is why a number of comrades are now making noise in the press. Although thirty years ago the problem was recognized, and they "worked" on it.
          1. +1
            5 November 2018 20: 56
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            the special group carried out an attack on the head of the "Window" topic in Vladivostok, with the aim of taking away documents on the topic

            Did he carry them in his bosom? belay wassat Do not tell my horseshoes (s) ... bully
            1. -1
              5 November 2018 21: 36
              C carried to the car.
              1. 0
                5 November 2018 21: 52
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                C carried to the car.

                That is, you want to say that a person who has the appropriate access to documents with the corresponding stamps, and accordingly familiar with the document flow, who has probably put more than one signature in the columns, received / handed over, having an idea of ​​state secrets, easily did not give a damn about everything and carried / carried the documents with him ? Who would allow him all this? Do you yourself believe that?
            2. +1
              16 July 2019 11: 31
              "It's simple. We went to the report at the Pacific Fleet headquarters. In a UAZ, in my opinion, from Tihasa.
              Senior car with PM, midshipman secretary with an iron suitcase, Kravchenko with his briefcase with notes and a driver. In the Aleutian region, they stopped at a store. In my opinion, at the intersection of the Aleutian and Svetlanskaya (according to the modern), there was a deli there.
              It is clear that they violated, but it was not often happened to visit Vladik, go shopping, and there were orders from the wives. I did it myself on business trips, though at first I handed over the secret.
              Unidentified people tried to snatch Kravchenko's portfolio. The older car interfered. As a rule, not all documents were taken into account. Moreover, Kravchenko was from science. And they have their own cockroaches. Apparently he had notes, drawings and other justification in his portfolio. Unaccounted for by secret. At first they decided not to report, so as not to get screwed up. But it "leaked" all the same. Maybe the driver passed the sailor.
              I heard about this version from Kravchenko's lips. "
  34. -6
    3 November 2018 10: 43
    sheer nonsense
    1. +6
      3 November 2018 11: 12
      A very smart comment. Naod also had to write something like "niasili", "mnogabukaf", etc.
      1. +3
        3 November 2018 12: 33
        The Dunning - Krueger effect ............. so it makes no sense to write more.
        1. +1
          3 November 2018 14: 42
          I well understood what you said.
          +1
        2. +4
          3 November 2018 18: 40
          And who are you "according to Dannig-Kruger" laughing A guru who has risen to a plateau of stability on the side of enlightenment?
  35. +10
    3 November 2018 11: 03
    We built, built and finally built the Zvezda shipyard. Just don't tell me that it was built with the money of Gazprombank, Rosneft, Rosneftigaz. There is no municipal, regional and federal money - there is our money - the money of Russian taxpayers.
    What's with this enterprise today? There are no engineers, no workers on it, in the required number. Several times a day on the city television channels of Severodvinsk there is an advertisement - people are invited to work at Zvezda. There are not enough specialists either at Sevmash, or at Zvezdochka with its branches, or at Arctic. Will they be lured to Zvezda with salaries higher than in Severodvinsk? Tankers are our everything - state defense order, well, why, will you be up to your waist?
    Moreover, since the 90s at all Severodvinsk factories, a system of work on weekends has been built: with wild bonuses that must be shared with whomever and with time off at the right time (the head of the section has to raise the bathhouse in SNT Belomor, the corner with the stove sagged) ... The only plus: in the last 2 years from Nizhny Novgorod and from Moscow, students from different universities began, as in Soviet times, practice at Sevmash (how not to praise the personnel management of Sevmash) and some of those students, having received a diploma, came to work in Severodvinsk. As they themselves say: to see it on TV is one thing, but how to come to the shop is pride and joy that I can work here! ... So shipbuilding and ship repair of the Russian Federation is still on its side ... Personnel, as you know, decide I almost forgot the country of a graduate of the Naval Academy, captain 1st rank Mitkin Konstantin Borisovich, a former commander of the nuclear submarine. After the verdict of the court, where from the ranks of the Navy was he pushed? And there are dozens of people like him, and these are long-term corruption ties ... It looks like the Russian fleet is waiting for something worse than Tsushima, very similar ...
  36. +3
    3 November 2018 11: 03
    An association suggests itself from 1904 and 1913. It’s cheap not to get off.
    1. +3
      3 November 2018 11: 29
      1904 rather.
    2. +1
      3 November 2018 20: 20
      This is when in the tsarist fleet armor plates were fastened with sebaceous candles instead of rivets.
  37. 0
    3 November 2018 11: 19
    So for what huge public funds are spent on sub-melting? For the sake of then drowning him quickly, with the loss of thousands of sailors and gigantic means?

    Here, in the second question, the superfluous one is the question mark.

    In fact, I live far from the sea, and I was at the sea - the fingers of one hand are enough to count. I was pulling an urgent one to the air defense, and it would not even come from a big misunderstanding to say something like "the problem is known to the minesweepers" either to my head or to other bodies. However, what I sometimes hear and, at times, see, is disheartening. If we focus on sensations, we do not have any efficient fleet. The author is a thousand times right "we will only have to wait for the next Tsushima and wait for it." This is all sad and extremely distressing.
    1. +4
      3 November 2018 11: 29
      What is the most offensive, everything is still fixable. But we must deal with this issue.
      1. 0
        3 November 2018 11: 41
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        What is the most offensive, everything is fixable so far. But need to deal with this issue.

        Namesake! And who has to say "fas!" To start the process? Are we locksmiths and combine operators? Or is the current "guarantor" of all Great and Small and White Russia autocrat: Moscow, Vladimersky, Novgorod, Tsar of Kazan, Tsar of Astrakhan and Tsar of Siberia, Tsar of Pskov, Grand Duke of Smolensk, Tver, Yugorsk, Perm, Vyattsky, Bulgarian and others, Tsar and the Grand Duke of Novgorod Nizovsky lands, Chernigov, Ryazan, Rostov, Yaroslavsky, Belozersky, Udora, Obdorsky, Kondia and all northern countries, the sovereign, and the sovereign of the Iverian lands, Kartala and Georgian kings, and Kabardian lands, Cherkassk and Mountain princes and many other states and the lands of the Eastern and Western and Northern Fathers and Dedich and the heir and the sovereign and the owner?

        It won't rust for us, but for the "guarantor"?
        1. +2
          3 November 2018 11: 58
          Namesake! And who has to say "fas!" To start the process? Are we locksmiths and combine operators?


          For starters, yes.
          1. 0
            3 November 2018 12: 17
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            For starters, yes.

            Problem. It will take dozens of years for a critical mass of conscious "locksmiths" and "combine operators" to accumulate. Dozens, it can be more than a hundred - hundreds start with two or more. So what - do you think we have this time? Will the adversaries wait while we pump up the muscles? And they themselves are going to hibernate this time, or what?
            1. +6
              3 November 2018 18: 42
              What else can you do? At least make some noise. Better so than nothing.
  38. +6
    3 November 2018 11: 26
    About the topic "Window"
    I ask you not to consider the above trolling

    I personally know many of the workers in Armenia who developed such a device in the USSR. It was developed, successfully tested on airplanes, even a device for installation on satellites was developed - due to ratiolocation in the microwave range, a wake trail of submarines was detected. According to the developers, the device allowed to detect submarines at a depth of up to 500 meters.

    After the collapse of the USSR, Armenia, of course, was not interested in the topic of submarines, while in the Russian Federation no one showed initiative in this matter. The man who led the development, died a year ago, the documents of his company persistently plundered many times
    I could name both the enterprise and the workers, in confirmation of my words - this is a very famous enterprise. But if during the lifetime of the developers, nobody needed them, then why now remember them in vain.

    That's how gentlemen of nationalization.
    Ignoring a small country, you got a giant security hole
    1. +3
      3 November 2018 11: 57
      The topic was developed in many research institutes, and in the fleets, and was also abandoned in Russia itself, and not only in Armenia. One organization tried to adapt developments for satellite tracking of US submarines, but in the 90s such a project could not take off.

      How now I do not know.
      1. 0
        3 November 2018 13: 20
        > The theme was developed in many research institutes, and in fleets

        We have already developed and tested it. It was necessary to buy and use. For 30 years they did not find the money.
        1. +4
          3 November 2018 22: 27
          But on football stadiums found a lot of money.
  39. -2
    3 November 2018 12: 21
    When there are many problems, such articles are ordered. Only the Navy needs not to be silent, but to have its say. It is not clear how the series "Karakurt" ended up without engines. As it is, I can’t believe in such bungling.
    1. +4
      3 November 2018 18: 43
      It is not clear how the series "Karakurt" ended up without engines. It’s hard to believe in such bungling.


      And yet, it happened.

      https://vpk-news.ru/articles/45658
      1. +1
        3 November 2018 23: 48
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        https://vpk-news.ru/articles/45658

        It’s a pity that Maxim was banned here.
  40. +3
    3 November 2018 12: 47
    And all this will be dismantled by crews and ordinary workers. Crews, when they will sink and burn from superior enemy forces, and workers will then recover 25 hours a day. Eeeh (((
  41. -14
    3 November 2018 12: 48
    They were shot for panic during the Great Patriotic War.
    1. +8
      3 November 2018 14: 43
      my friend, before that, for almost SIX years, we shot enemies of the people and established a clear implementation of orders. You understand the difference? Have you heard the presidential decrees in May? And the fact that they are NOT PERFORMED from 2012 is like? And why such management is needed?
  42. -13
    3 November 2018 12: 58
    An article from the series "Chef, everything is gone, the cast is being removed, the client is leaving ..."
    Yes, not everything is so good with us, but not everything is so bad, but everyone has their own problems everywhere ... And those who cry, buy yourself valerian, Corvalol, validol and sleep peacefully and don’t read psycho-traumatic articles if your fragile consciousness is not able to apprehend it adequately .... otherwise they read articles and begin to scratch furniture in their neurasthenic attack, bite their nails and sniff with their nose, drawing in snot from the rolling decline of the country ...
    1. +13
      3 November 2018 14: 39
      have long served? Understand what the country's defense consists of? I, for one, knew KNOW well. And now, comparing, I can’t understand how the BG is provided, for example, they privatized the land of the Moscow Region, closed the military unit, took away equipment, the radar field, which has been built for 20/30 years, disappeared, there were uncontrolled VKS ways of approaching the capital to the capital, is that okay? ALL divisions were closed in the north, and the strikes of the Kyrgyz Republic will be just from there, it's like? But you are fine .... What exactly? Three planes a year instead of the debris written off? At least you know something?
      1. -15
        3 November 2018 18: 33
        Cry-cry ... do you need a vest? I ALWAYS SERVED .... you are simply an invaluable shot for our Moscow region, which no one has noticed and forgot to ask how, where and what should be ...
  43. Jeg
    +6
    3 November 2018 13: 16
    I'm not a military expert, but the article is suggestive. If we analyze news about the launching of ships (more like boats), import substitution, etc. , and then over time to read about the problems in the production of engines and all other equipment, purchases in China, and as a result of this delay in construction and the increase in its cost, then only one analogy comes to mind - we are preparing a new year 1941. And then the statements of some historians that the catastrophe of 1941 was still man-made and planned to me seem real. Especially looking at the sitting members of the "circle" of the Ministry of Defense in the uniform of the military of some banana republic.
  44. -18
    3 November 2018 13: 28
    scribble is a rare shit from the series "fucked up polymers." A balm for the soul of all-fledged people.
    1. +16
      3 November 2018 14: 04
      Write an article in which the facts cited by the author would not be worth a damn. And if you shout Hurray Hurray every day, then from this the ships will not be built. And this is not a balm, but poison from which it hurts.
    2. +4
      3 November 2018 14: 32
      all is well, all is very well. never mind, watch TV.
  45. -8
    3 November 2018 13: 44
    Dear editors! To place SUCH in the "analytics" section is to automatically refer yourself to the yellow press.
    Regards, submarine officer.
    1. +5
      3 November 2018 16: 24
      Quote: Neutron Lagging

      Dear editors! To place SUCH in the "analytics" section is to automatically refer yourself to the yellow press.
      Regards, submarine officer.

      Dear Submarine Officer. I’m not in any way related to the editors. If it does not bother you, conduct an analysis of our Navy, thanks in advance.
  46. +10
    3 November 2018 13: 52
    Become a full-time Captain Obvious. Indeed, it’s elementary that the Army, and especially the Navy, was and should be just the result of the country's technical structure. For 25 years, the same people plundered and exported over the hill all the wealth of the country created on the ruins of the USSR. The fleet is particularly responsive to the technical level of production, research institutes, which for all our modern time collapsed. It is quite realistic when a government official simply breaks up strategic production, for further corporatization of his resources. Well, who does it surprise? Another thing surprises me. OUR MO group of satellite reconnaissance and target designation, including long-range anti-ship missiles, has long been destroyed. This terrible fact does not bother anyone? Against this background, the traitor Vlasov is simply Carloson ...
    1. +1
      3 November 2018 15: 39
      Yes. Russia in the fourth technological regime. And the EU, the USA, crawl in the sixth.
  47. +1
    3 November 2018 13: 59
    The new dagger hypersonic missile also did not visibly interest the naval comrades.

    It is unlikely that anyone might be interested in something that is not in nature. There is a missile mockup. There is no ramjet engine to the rocket. The same is true for a nuclear-powered rocket.
    1. -1
      3 November 2018 17: 02
      Here you are not quite right.
      "Dagger" is quite enough for itself, but what kind of ramjet engine are you writing about, if this is the most common aeroballistic rocket? In other words, the "dagger" is, in fact, nothing more than a 9M723 missile from the "Iskander" suspended under the belly of a mig-31. From a technical point of view, there is nothing super complicated and innovative here.
      The Navy is not interested because there is no possibility of hitting moving targets.
  48. +1
    3 November 2018 14: 01
    -In fact, from the aviation of the times of the USSR, there were only scraps-

    From the eyes and ears of the fleet - there were no scraps left with a brief reconnaissance aircraft. There were no scraps left from the sea strike missile carrier aviation.
  49. +10
    3 November 2018 14: 06
    The more they talk about problems, the more likely the solution to those problems is. And the more problems are "overlooked", the more these problems multiply.
    1. +9
      3 November 2018 14: 24
      namely, but now those who criticize mistakes and betrayal are positioned as enemies. There are two options: bad boyars are trying to cheat a good King, the second, but the King is not real! Which option is correct? And who in the army is responsible for the schools of subordinates? Commander? On a citizen in a different way? Then I look, Dimon mows and mows ...
      1. +4
        3 November 2018 22: 37
        No, then Dimona (after 6 years) will not be remembered, everything will be blamed on Putin. Now censorship does not miss it, but with another president, if he is not from the Putin team, then we will learn the whole truth about Putin’s 24-year rule.
  50. Yat
    -1
    3 November 2018 14: 09
    The main problem is that we want to see our army as strong (in technical equipment) as the army of the USSR. But in the days of the USSR, our country had a much more powerful industry and the population was 2 times larger.
    1. +3
      3 November 2018 14: 25
      Gosstroy was different, it turns out to be MORE effective.
      1. Yat
        +3
        3 November 2018 14: 28
        Yes, just in Soviet times, the fleet was on the sidelines. The main attention was paid to ground forces and nuclear weapons.
    2. +7
      3 November 2018 14: 28
      And most importantly, the party nomenclature did not have yachts with a frigate displacement
      1. +5
        3 November 2018 14: 30
        were, but state, right now personal for the state account.
  51. Jeg
    +8
    3 November 2018 14: 12
    Quote: Lagging Neutron
    Dear editors! To place SUCH in the "analytics" section is to automatically refer yourself to the yellow press.
    Regards, submarine officer.

    Dear submariner. YOU ARE A SPECIALIST --- so write realistically, and at the same time justify that this is not so. And so you are a “sea troll”.
    1. +7
      3 November 2018 14: 27
      I’m afraid that if a real submarine officer writes, he will be imprisoned and this resource will be blocked. From open sources, there are ONLY FOUR SSBNs on the database in Russia. FOUR....
      1. +11
        3 November 2018 14: 50
        Now they will send you to delounas, where they will proudly poke you into a factory for screwdriver assembly of Chinese washing machines), however, what can we take from the Papuans, they don’t need ships, the main thing is bananas (i.e. sausage made of paper, in the second magnet around the corner was), and we will again happily sell the remnants of the achievements of a previously existing developed civilization for hefty useful palm oil)
        1. +6
          3 November 2018 16: 36
          exactly. and this will be real modern patriotism. The USSR did. Russia is making presentations today.
          1. +2
            3 November 2018 22: 42
            Are these the presentations that the presidential candidate showed as his election video? Those cheap cartoons about future nuclear-powered wunderwaffles?
    2. -5
      3 November 2018 15: 10
      Doesn’t it occur to you that everything related to the fleet’s constant readiness forces is classified? So “analysts” of rumors, speculation and gossip from social networks multiply online.
      1. +9
        3 November 2018 16: 35
        It occurs to me that the reality is even worse. Knowing the army from the inside.
      2. +8
        3 November 2018 18: 49
        Under the fingerboard? YES, we don’t have a damn thing left from secrecy, all orders for ship components are posted on Purchases.gov, I don’t want to analyze them, any journalist can easily calculate the volume of modernization of the same “SHAPOSHNIKOV”, the condition of any of the ships and any of the submarines, except SSBN, easily calculated from open sources.
        Write the name of the nuclear submarine, I will write to you what happened to it (except for the SSBN).
        But I just have a home computer.
        What about the CIA?
        No more secrecy, no more "vultures"
      3. +5
        3 November 2018 21: 01
        Neutron Retarded
        Sorry, but you really write nonsense. I can also report on the state of affairs with the submarines. And about Shaposhnikov, a year ago I posted a link here on the website to purchase equipment for missile systems for him laughing
        If we put aside the emotions in the article, in general it is completely correct. Unfortunately recourse
        I can’t say anything about detecting submarines and this method. And in terms of the composition of the fleet, its capabilities and many other points, everything is correct. There's still a lot left unsaid here.
  52. -6
    3 November 2018 14: 45
    All this could be described much more briefly: “Everything is gone, the plaster is removed, the client is leaving!”
    There are many problems, and they are systemic, but there is no point in falling into female hysteria. It is unlikely that the General Staff, the Navy command and the country’s leadership are unaware of the current situation; after all, there are not only corrupt officials and traitors there. If the author of the article, Alexander Timokhin, wants to report problems with the Navy and offer his services to correct the situation, then he is clearly in the wrong place on the portal.
    Separately, about the funny remark that the FSB “did not keep track of the formation of truly mafia clans in the defense industry.” It is quite obvious that Timokhin 1) does not know what the mafia is, 2) has no idea what a “mafia clan” is, 3) has no idea how the military-industrial complex is organized, managed and operates.
    There are many problems in the military-industrial complex, but they are connected with the collapse of the defense industry in the 90s, which still haunts us today. This, by the way, also applies to other industries: from rocket, aircraft and tank construction to electronics. I will never forget how our best specialist workers and technicians, and even engineers and designers, went to the market to sell spare parts, and if they went to related companies or to competing companies, they were seen off with regret, but with wishes of success and joy that at least something is working somewhere. Then, when money seemed to appear, it turned out that we couldn’t produce it simply because there was no one to work, and you couldn’t take it off the street. There was something else: the Moscow Region does not pay for the products received, no one gives money, an order arrives for several products, and the director is forced to raise prices in order to feed the entire plant. Subcontractors also want to feed their workers. As a result, the Moscow Region is shocked: the product is worth the price of gold. Is this called a "mafia clan"?
    1. +8
      3 November 2018 15: 03
      Dear, thirty years have passed since there was no Union! Stop nodding at this already. The life of an entire generation, and the current defectives are still riding on this backlog, but nothing lasts forever, so rockets fall, docks sink, bridges collapse... After the Second World War, the union created a bomb in 15 years and flew into space, lending and feeding half the world . Thirty years have passed, what achievements do the current ones have besides the loss of their last allies, two wars for the interests of a handful of oligarchs, yachts the size of a military frigate, and constantly rising prices and taxes?
      1. Yat
        -5
        3 November 2018 15: 09
        What kind of wars “for the interests of a handful of oligarchs” are we talking about?
        1. +5
          3 November 2018 16: 21
          Wagner PMC, Syria, an attempt to squeeze out oil-bearing areas, does that mean something? No? then continue watching TV, everything is fine.
        2. +1
          3 November 2018 18: 30
          Quote: Yat
          What kind of wars “for the interests of a handful of oligarchs” are we talking about?

          Chechnya.
      2. -8
        3 November 2018 15: 16
        Dear: stop talking nonsense. With all this verbiage about the yachts of the oligarchs, the loss of “allies” - to the liberals, or to the kindergarten, that’s the right place. If you have outgrown the kindergarten, and you have the desire and ability to work, then you are welcome to join us in the defense industry, show your class, everyone will just be happy.
        1. +10
          3 November 2018 16: 25
          Give me the address, I'm ready! Where in the defense industry ARE THEY PAID? Not to the five managers who receive the budget, but to the engineers and workers? I was just in Kirov, they have to do THAT SAME wunderwaffle, nothing works.... Drink, if you are not yap, address!
          1. +5
            3 November 2018 16: 50
            I don’t understand, everyone who downvotes is obliged to respond with the address of the production where workers and engineers are paid, and not like serfs, otherwise he is a blabbermouth and a bad person.
            1. +2
              3 November 2018 18: 26
              Quote: Forestol
              everyone who downvotes is obliged to do this

              Every negative person doesn’t owe you anything.
              Quote: Forestol
              provide the address of the production where workers and engineers are paid, and not like serfs

              Contact Stankomash in Chelyabinsk. In principle, the salaries there are not bad
              1. +2
                3 November 2018 21: 35
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Contact Stankomash in Chelyabinsk. In principle, the salaries there are not bad

                http://www.stankomash74.ru/vacancies/

                Not really. Konar generally kicks out a bunch of people.
              2. 0
                4 November 2018 18: 23
                “Basically not bad” is how much? 25000?Minimum official salary? This is for an engineer, a graduate of Baumanka?Or how much? Come on, you’re not a blabbermouth, announce it directly and honestly. I'll be at this enterprise until the end of November, so we'll check!
              3. -1
                4 November 2018 18: 28
                the downvoter, if he doesn’t agree, must prove that I’m wrong. By presenting a decent salary level. And so it turns out to be blabbering. How are you.
        2. +3
          3 November 2018 18: 34
          Quote: av58
          If you have outgrown the kindergarten, and you have the desire and ability to work, then you are welcome to join us in the defense industry, show your class, everyone will just be happy.

          Eat. How much do they pay, will you provide housing? And, yes, won’t I be too old?
          1. 0
            4 November 2018 18: 26
            Don’t trust me too much, I’ve been working with the Chelyabinsk industry for ten years. Everyone is pawed, and this is a leavened TV viewer, he already has communism in Russia. If only at ChKZ, but there are mainly Kazan ones....
      3. +8
        3 November 2018 15: 39
        Quote: Adagka
        Dear, thirty years have passed since there was no Union! Stop nodding at this already.

        Honestly, if you don’t know, then don’t say it. At the time of the collapse of the USSR, the defense industry did not have any special problems - neither with equipment nor with personnel. The problems began after almost 20 years of inactivity in the period 1991-2010. and exactly as my namesake described them. And they continue to this day, since there were no mountains of gold in the military-industrial complex, and it is almost impossible to find money for fundamental reconstruction of production
    2. +5
      3 November 2018 16: 32
      my friend, this speaks of an incorrectly chosen path for the development of the ECONOMY and a non-functioning management in general!If all the people are trying to convey a cry to Putin, as in the Kuchinskaya dump(6 km from Moscow!)and the entire vertical with bandits has been making money on this for 20 years , this is talking about complete chaos in the highest authorities and the FSB.
      1. +6
        3 November 2018 22: 24
        Quote: Forestol
        etl talks about complete chaos in the highest authorities and the FSB.

        it says. that they are at the head of the processes.
        1. 0
          4 November 2018 18: 30
          If you are not a provocateur from the OFFICE, hats off, at least one of them is sighted.
    3. +5
      3 November 2018 17: 08
      Quote: av58
      There are many problems in the military-industrial complex, but they are connected with the collapse of the defense industry in the 90s, which still haunts us today

      Maybe stop hanging noodles on your ears?
  53. -2
    3 November 2018 15: 07
    I finished reading the words "gravitational field".
  54. Yat
    +2
    3 November 2018 15: 08
    Quote: av58

    Separately, about the funny remark that the FSB “did not keep track of the formation of truly mafia clans in the defense industry.” It is quite obvious that Timokhin 1) does not know what the mafia is, 2) has no idea what a “mafia clan” is, 3) has no idea how the military-industrial complex is organized, managed and operates.

    The FSB did not keep track of the country's leadership when it once set a course for collapse and general theft. And here about some individual factories and design bureaus....
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 22: 50
      So, probably the leadership is also unfastening the FSB, so they are watching where they need to be, they are definitely watching Navalny.
  55. -7
    3 November 2018 15: 47
    “Grandmothers sitting on a bench all day, washing everyone’s bones, spreading gossip and misinformation” - how did all this fit into one name of the author of the article???
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 18: 50
      In fact, we are doing well. And all these lieutenant generals and captains mentioned in the article are simply... Yes?
  56. -10
    3 November 2018 16: 39
    hmmm, another thing, KATZ OFFERS TO SURRENDER, wink
  57. +6
    3 November 2018 16: 41
    “As well as in the development of naval underwater weapons, hydroacoustic countermeasures, hydroacoustic systems and much more, real work and production have long been replaced by ingenious schemes that make it possible to master budgets without issuing anything in response, no prototypes, samples, etc. etc., - only reports on the development work done, falsified test reports and endless restarts of this process. Profit without production in its pure form" - what else to add? -NOTHING !!!.
  58. -7
    3 November 2018 16: 45
    Quote: gunnerminer
    -For 30 years, science has stepped far forward .-

    Watching whose science. Russian science eats up the last Soviet legacy. The defense projects of RUSNANO and Skolkovo failed.

    This troll has appeared again! Boss, everything is gone, we finished the last thing. What does nano and Skolkovo have to do with it? What are you smoking, Murad?
    1. +5
      3 November 2018 16: 47
      a leavened patriot is worse than an enemy. Did 1941 teach you nothing?
      1. -4
        3 November 2018 17: 22
        A worthless analogy. What does 1941 have to do with it? Learn history, use your head. Worse than the enemy are people like you, who draw information from the media of various colors, and then begin to pour the manure of their conclusions onto the fan.
        1. +5
          3 November 2018 22: 54
          Yes, because in 1941 they also shouted that the Red Army was stronger than everyone else. Are you also suggesting now that we say that we are stronger than everyone else? Or have you forgotten how we were almost destroyed in 1941?
          1. -2
            4 November 2018 13: 17
            Are you talking about the song: "...but from the taiga to the British seas..."? In vain. The war was considered inevitable and they tried in every possible way to delay its beginning. And there were many other reasons. Many thick books have been written about this. Haven’t you read it? Still I think the analogy to 1941 is inappropriate and unfortunate.
        2. 0
          4 November 2018 18: 33
          We draw from personal experience of serving for more than 20 years, unlike you, troll.
  59. +8
    3 November 2018 16: 51
    And what is the point of repeating long-known truths?
    Just 10 years ago, only a blind man could not predict such a future for the fleet and army.
    The current government is completely uninterested in the development of a highly productive economy, science, education, and only staying in power at any cost is the very goal.
    The story of a hundred years ago is being repeated, when the autocratic dictator was the main anchor of the country, who did his best to slow down the development of the country.
  60. -4
    3 November 2018 17: 00
    The author laments the weak state of our fleet, and why do we need a fleet adequate to the United States, considering that it probably has half the world as its assistants. Our president said, “we will be in heaven, and they will die,” what else is needed for the concept of meaning, so sleep peacefully, our fleet will not disgrace itself. And period.
    1. +6
      3 November 2018 22: 56
      Stop believing what the president said, he has already said a lot of things. His job is to deceive people. Have you already forgotten about pensions?
    2. +2
      4 November 2018 04: 53
      I’ve already said it, but I’ll repeat it - in order to get to heaven you also need to die.
  61. +7
    3 November 2018 17: 33
    Who ordered a cold shower?
    Many people, as I understand it, won’t like this because it doesn’t look like a fairy tale from propagandists.
  62. -10
    3 November 2018 17: 40
    The article is a complete all-out lie. Aftras operate on data that is 25-30 years old.
    1. +2
      3 November 2018 18: 51
      Well, drop a few lines about how it really is.
  63. +4
    3 November 2018 19: 26
    It's all good gentlemen. When will the Nord team be home?
    What's the use of your cruisers if they didn't keep track of the fishing boat?!!!....
    1. -1
      5 November 2018 18: 45
      What's the use of your cruisers if they didn't keep track of the fishing boat?!!!...


      Let's not fall into demagoguery, let's not fall...
  64. +8
    3 November 2018 19: 49
    Very deep analysis. It is clear that the author has the information and has developed the topic competently.
    Except one:
    "With the improvement of funding in terms of the distribution of funds between the submarine, surface fleet and aviation."
    And who will save Putin’s oligarch accomplices who are under sanctions???????? winked
    This is where the FINANCING will go... am
    And the Navy will hear “NO MONEY, BUT YOU HOLD ON...”
  65. +6
    3 November 2018 19: 57
    Quote: evgeny68
    And you actually from where in such courses, letters are sent directly from the Pentagon. I am always amazed at the impudence and arrogance of such posts that in Russia and in the USA thousands of experts work in forecasting the development of weapons, but there are no more informed iksperds hanging on the VO branch.

    Do you have anything to say about the problem, “specialist”?! lol Or don't you have them? But the country has it! sad
  66. +11
    3 November 2018 19: 57
    I read the article and the comments in it: those who agree argue their position, those who disagree only repeat - “nonsense.”
    How it is built and what is available is confirmed by earlier publications on VO. And other publishing houses published similar materials. It seems that everything is true.
    The question is different - what have the authorities been doing for the last 18 years and the person who convinced us to get up from our knees?
  67. The comment was deleted.
  68. -11
    3 November 2018 20: 12
    What mental retard concocted these nonsense? bully Did he even serve in the SA?
    For raw brains, i.e. unprepared.
    1. +7
      3 November 2018 23: 00
      Well, what can I tell you, Lyokha, you yourself are oligophrenic.
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 22: 40
        Time will judge us. hi
  69. +7
    3 November 2018 20: 12
    These are all links in one chain: a liberal economy, a liberal president, a liberal prime minister, an untouchable oligarchy, the impossibility of adopting a progressive tax on the rich, the impossibility of amending the Constitution in favor of the people, blinding oneself by commissioning small boats with four calibers, submarines that will bring little benefit in global conflict, constant problems with launches in civilian space, uncontrolled migration, difficulties with citizenship of Russians from other countries, the promise to protect Russians wherever they are and the draining of Russians in the eastern outskirts, predatory pension reform and reduced funding for public health care, and much more. ... I'm a pessimist sad
    1. +1
      4 November 2018 04: 57
      I envy you. Personally, I have no reason for pessimism (((
      - pessimist - a person who believes that things can’t get any worse.
      - optimist - a person who believes that there are no restrictions.
  70. +3
    3 November 2018 20: 17
    Did you try to eliminate the noise of submarines? Well, something happened. What's the point? The West was able to counter something that Russia simply does not have, even at a great cost. As they said: “You didn’t want to listen to us, now listen!” Well, they listen, so what? Have something to say? Maybe it's time to draw a new cartoon?
    1. +4
      3 November 2018 21: 26
      Quote: AllExx
      Maybe it's time to draw a new cartoon?

      about what? Yes, and you need a reason. There is theft, carelessness, indifference and incompetence all around, bordering on criminal negligence and sabotage. And so in medicine, in education, in pricing, housing and communal services, etc. in all of Rus'
      1. +1
        4 November 2018 11: 53
        Sylvester! The key word missing from your list of problems is betrayal from the top. It is precisely this that is the root of all our problems, the sprouts of which came to light during the time of the corn grower.
    2. +3
      3 November 2018 22: 45
      The irony is that Russia can very quickly catch up with the West here. And not very expensive. But it needs a kick. It would be better if it were a kick from our own people than a military defeat from strangers.
      1. -1
        3 November 2018 23: 17
        To catch up and make a breakthrough, we need trained personnel. Qualified workers trained to work on the most modern equipment. Such workers cannot be trained without educational institutions. And they will still need at least 5-7 years to improve their qualifications. Rosneft received the SRZ-82 as a gift, and I didn’t think about the workers. She works with the material that is at hand. I don’t even want to follow the example of the management of the Nyuendai shipyards and others.
      2. +1
        4 November 2018 11: 56
        Alexander! The fact is that if the scenario of a Western attack on Russia is realized, then there will be not just defeat, but the destruction of the country and people. The Anglo-Saxons drew a conclusion from our victory in the Great Patriotic War and the unprecedented restoration of the country in the history of the post-war period.
    3. +4
      3 November 2018 23: 05
      The new cartoon will already depict Putin’s receiver, but only if this receiver is recommended by him, then people, God forbid, if you vote for him, we will be in complete ruin.
      1. 0
        4 November 2018 11: 59
        I agree, Fan-Fan! But I hope that the reforms at the top will return to the people the ability to sensibly evaluate the government and its affairs.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  71. -3
    3 November 2018 20: 54
    Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse
    On the verge of collapse, you might think it's dangerous laughing
  72. +5
    3 November 2018 22: 13
    I read this terrifying analysis and conclusions; there is nothing in the language except swearing. This thought has been on my mind for a long time - an unexpected attack from the West (without deciphering the constituent forces). All our boats are destroyed in the first minutes (this article proves that this is not my crazy speculation), all or almost all ground starting points are destroyed from the air (by what and how it does not matter, the main thing is that it is possible).
    And then the united West (part of which is also in the East of our country) comes at us with all its might. And what can we oppose to them?
    This was an analysis of the state of the Navy, but what will we read about aviation, armored forces, air defense - not what they drilled our ears into, that everything is fine with us and we have already defeated everyone, but what is the real situation?
    And there is a suspicion that it is no better than with the fleet.
    And it’s scary to even think about R&D and the military-industrial complex, what’s going on there.
    And the top people are all raving about grandiose projects when we can’t do even the smallest things.
    I live in St. Petersburg, a city that for most of my life was Leningrad. So, if I lived today in Leningrad, in the USSR I would not have such a feeling of hopelessness.
    The country needs drastic changes, otherwise we are finished.
    1. -1
      5 November 2018 18: 44
      This thought has been on my mind for a long time - an unexpected attack from the West (without deciphering the constituent forces). All our boats are destroyed in the first minutes (this article proves that this is not my crazy speculation), all or almost all ground starting points are destroyed from the air (by what and how it does not matter, the main thing is that it is possible).
      And then the united West (part of which is also in the East of our country) comes at us with all its might. And what can we oppose to them?



      You don’t know them well - if they could, they would hit.
      Can not. Alas.
      1. -1
        5 November 2018 20: 42
        Your words would be in God's ears. And then, neither I, nor you, nor anyone at all knows what will happen to the world even tomorrow.
  73. +3
    3 November 2018 22: 18
    In fact, at present, the Northern Fleet can launch five surface ships of the 1 and 2 rank, including two cruisers, the Black Sea - five TFRs and frigates, the Pacific - six, including one cruiser, the Baltic Fleet - one TFR of the 11540 project and four corvettes 20380 project.
    .
    oh ma, where is our Soviet Navy? Yes, but for this it is necessary to raze the Ebon centers to the ground, the hunchback to the scaffold, and the rest of the list....
  74. -1
    3 November 2018 22: 33
    (in those cases when there were foreign submarines in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk)!

    What were they doing there? The Sea of ​​Okhotsk is recognized as an inland sea of ​​Russia!
    Everyone who was behind bringing the fleet “to the brink” must go look for another place of work.

    What kind of liberal nonsense is this? At a minimum, they should already be sitting.
    1. +1
      4 November 2018 02: 15
      How did you do what? They were doing military service! American MPLATRKs visit both the Okhotsk and Bering Seas with enviable regularity. To Beringovo for control of Vilyuchensk and to Okhotskoye for operational control of the deployment area of ​​our boats.
    2. -1
      4 November 2018 07: 16
      NATO MAPLs entered the Motovsky Bay more than once in the 60-80s. When the situation with ASW in the near zone was better, at least quantitatively.
    3. -1
      4 November 2018 07: 16
      NATO MAPLs entered the Motovsky Bay more than once in the 60-80s. When the situation with ASW in the near zone was better, at least quantitatively.
    4. 0
      4 November 2018 12: 01
      boris! You are both very kind to these creatures!
  75. +2
    3 November 2018 22: 36
    This is all very interesting...For the main military prosecutor's office...
  76. +4
    4 November 2018 02: 03
    This is the situation in all the RF Armed Forces. All these exercises are nothing more than window dressing. One of the officers said that hope lies only in the nuclear button.
  77. -4
    4 November 2018 05: 43
    In a country where more than 90% of the income from natural resources goes into the pockets of the oligarchs, the people have been deprived of their pensions, and the cost of 20 yachts of the Russian oligarchs exceeds the budget allocated for all surface ships of the Navy since 2000, one must be glad that at least something sails the sea.
    The recipe for fleet development is simple; allocate a large amount of dough and control every penny so that it doesn’t get stolen.

    As for the submarine fleet, here the author is wrong and is outright nonsense. It was especially annoying about the fact that all Russian submarines can be destroyed by one enemy strike.

    This article cannot be called anything other than an “alarmist’s memorandum”. It’s a pity that the article cannot be given a minus
    1. 0
      4 November 2018 12: 05
      As for the submarine fleet, here the author is wrong and is outright nonsense. It was especially annoying about the fact that all Russian submarines can be destroyed by one enemy strike.

      Rave? And the arguments in the article refute this. And not only in this publication. It’s just the first detailed and reasoned assessment of the state of affairs with the fleet and the submarine in particular.
  78. +1
    4 November 2018 09: 06
    In Russia, the fleet always fell into decay when there was no need for it, as the top officials of the Russian state believed, and when it came to the realization that without the fleet there would be no Russia, then the fleet began to rapidly revive, and now this very time is coming, which means with great It's hard for the fleet to be revived. Otherwise, we just can’t develop steadily and progressively, confidently move forward without looking back at anyone, go our own way.
  79. +1
    4 November 2018 09: 42
    To the author, thank you very much for the article.
    Alexander, thanks to people like you, who don’t give a damn, not for self-interest, but for the sake of prosperity. Our homeland still exists!
    Don't retreat! Get your way.
  80. +5
    4 November 2018 10: 44
    Who is to blame for the fact that all this has become possible?

    This is undoubtedly the Ministry of Defense, including the Department for the Provision of the State Defense Order, the commanders of the Navy, the personnel of the Main Committee of the Navy responsible for shipbuilding, the Ministers of Defense - all for about the last 12-13 years.


    Are they the only ones to blame? No, I don’t deny their guilt, but they are limited both by the budget and by those who sit higher than them. Everything that is described in the article is a consequence of running the country by the “most effective government”, isn’t it. After all, it is they who, by managing our labor, should build an economy that will then provide money for ships and pensions and much more. But did they succeed? No, apparently because they didn’t try, they didn’t need it. In other words, all this is a consequence of the capitalist production system, when everything drags along pockets and then over the hill. And the people and the state are poor, which is why the state has no money either for ships, or for pensions, or for science and technology.
    If Russia does not take the path of socialism, it will sink into oblivion and we all will go with it.
    1. +3
      4 November 2018 12: 07
      If Russia does not take the path of socialism, it will sink into oblivion and we all will go with it.

      Agree. This is the key question.
  81. +3
    4 November 2018 12: 45
    And along with it, the gravitational field fluctuates. Part of the gravitational field reaches the surface of the water... and enters into a resonant interaction...

    That's it, I couldn't go any further. Read more - just don't respect yourself. fool
    1. +2
      4 November 2018 13: 22
      Incorrect wording does not negate the existence of the event.
    2. -2
      4 November 2018 15: 15
      It’s a shame they didn’t finish reading it. This is where the Great American Gravity seems to come into play. And everything was gone. laughing
  82. -3
    4 November 2018 13: 29
    Chief, everything is gone! Oh really ? And our scientists have solved the detection problems, but the industrial mafia does not allow them to be implemented, and we can build airplanes. But a fleet is a very expensive pleasure, and often useless. What achievements did the fleet have in WWII? Answer: none. He began to act only at the end of the war...Is there any point in pouring money into him?
  83. -5
    4 November 2018 13: 53
    Again nonsense and fabrications of Russia's enemies
    We must understand that military equipment requires modernization over time.
    especially since it was built in the 80s
    Isn’t it clear that expensive cruisers and destroyers
    don't do it every month
    This is the situation in all countries
    1. -1
      4 November 2018 15: 24
      The theory - Peace and death is fair - it is not suitable for naval construction. Otherwise, ships with crews and cargo will be captured.
  84. -7
    4 November 2018 14: 21
    The author collected completely unconfirmed quotes and rumors and pulled out something that doesn’t exist. Yes, there are plenty of problems, but alarmists are not a panacea.
  85. +5
    4 November 2018 17: 21
    What to talk about?!
    The Supreme Commander and his best friend from Tyvim don’t care about our fleet. They generally exist in a parallel reality, where nuclear-powered cruise missiles are already roaming the open spaces. And combat lasers are already shooting down everything and everyone.
  86. -1
    4 November 2018 18: 31
    The author is escalating. We have capitalism, right? This means the fleet is the best laughing
  87. +1
    4 November 2018 18: 48
    Dear administration!

    Allow an open letter.

    See the article discussion
    https://topwar.ru/149232-flot-bez-korablej-vmf-rossii-na-grani-kollapsa.html

    This article caused a lively discussion. It is ambiguous, but interesting, there is something to talk about.
    However, a problem arose. I think many people saw it.
    The author came to the discussion with a crowd of bots. I don’t see any point in listing Nicky, and so everything is clear (look at the ending, most of them have “senior epaulets” and lack of at least a year of registration). I noticed them in other articles as well. I don’t care about pluses, minuses, virtual shoulder straps - thank you. They have their own colonels in real life, even if they are pensioners))). But the amount of virtual garbage is simply off the charts.

    I have been on your site for more than 6 years, and what do you offer?
    I'm not interested in epaulette toys, I'm interested in information and communication with smart and knowledgeable people.
    Do you really want to turn a very interesting website into a cheap internet dump?
    1. +2
      4 November 2018 19: 15
      I'm new here, and you signed me up as a bot... crying
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 13: 52
        Why do you think so? I wrote about those who litter the site, and not about those who recently registered. Sorry, but you just misunderstood me.
    2. 0
      5 November 2018 10: 09
      Write to Sportloto again, don’t forget.
      1. -3
        5 November 2018 14: 39
        I'll definitely write!

        Especially about Internet sources that the author accepts as truth.
        The epic picture is extremely pleasing when the Orion plane calculates the submarine and scatters sonar buoys onto the ice, revealing gravitational anomalies in the saline solution in a way unknown to science. How do polar bears feel about buoys, doesn’t the source write?

        Well, at least read about buoys here, or something. Moreover, I’m not claiming that the source is absolutely reliable, I don’t understand the intricacies, but at least there is no obvious nonsense here:
        http://www.warships.ru/usa/Weapons/Sensors/Sonobuoys/index.htm
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 19: 58
          You're crazy? There is not a word in the article that anyone threw buoys onto the ice. They were thrown into the water. laughing
          1. 0
            6 November 2018 17: 27
            Yes, we seem to be talking about the Arctic. Is there any ice there? wassat
            1. 0
              6 November 2018 18: 32
              Ice maps are available on the Internet.
    3. -2
      5 November 2018 18: 42
      The author came to the discussion with a crowd of bots.


      It is reasonable! am

      In VO this is the only way to do it...
  88. 0
    4 November 2018 19: 07
    the author is completely unaware of Soviet developments in the field of tracking submarines. as they say, I heard a ringing, but I don’t know where it is
  89. +3
    4 November 2018 21: 07
    On the first and third days that the forces were at sea, one Orion flew in from the AS "Annenes" ("Anneya"), which, having flown along some kind of "broken" route, went back. That smart officer, having analyzed
    Dear author, when conducting exercises, such as gathering, marching, the exercise areas are closed to both aircraft and ships, the appearance of a foreign military vessel or aircraft is already an emergency situation that is stopped by special forces for the aircraft, an aircraft is allocated either from the duty air defense forces or from the depot. PLA forces.
    The described method of searching for a “window” is untraditional and is not a circle, but a torus-type figure. Research on this topic was last carried out in 2002-2003. The phenomenon of a circle on ice is not a sign of the presence of a surface under the ice. In sunny weather, when flying in northern regions on an ice field, a ring of light on the ice surface is almost always visible. This is most likely an optical phenomenon. It can be seen both through sun protective glasses and through the glass of protective helmets such as ZSh-3, ZSh-5, and without glasses it can be seen when you fly from north to south or vice versa from the shadow side. Only in the early ZSh-3s it was perhaps impossible to see; they had light blue plexiglass. When a submarine ascends under the ice, the ice actually darkens at the point of ascent, but this is more likely due to the fact that a mass of water is squeezed out and, as a rule, the ascent takes place where the thickness is thinnest. And during ice reconnaissance flights over the Caspian Sea, I also observed a ring of light; there are no submarines there.
    1. -1
      5 November 2018 10: 16
      Well, this was the problem according to the methodology in the 80s - submarines, that is, or not.

      If you read the American report that I cited, you can see that in understanding the effect, the Americans have advanced further than us. And they started thirty years earlier.

      This is why the conclusion is drawn that they resolved the issue with these inconsistencies and learned to isolate precisely the “trace” from the submarine. Although buoys are still thrown into the center of the anomaly to be 100% sure.

      Let me give you an example. The same Semenov, who participated in the beginning of work on the "Window" in the 80s, after his defection to the side of Ukraine, witnessed how one "Poseidon" revealed the entire underwater situation in the Black Sea in a few minutes. hours. That is, if he is not lying, then they have brought this topic to its logical conclusion.
      1. -2
        5 November 2018 14: 46
        Author!

        Well, stop feeding people's ears with noodles!
        Poseidon's first flight was in 2009.
        1. 0
          5 November 2018 16: 17
          I repeat the question - are you able to understand what you read? A man in the 80s studied this topic at the Pacific Fleet.
          There is nothing in the commentary about the fact that Poseidon's flight took place in the 80s. Because he was in 2017, and A. Semenov is now teaching at one of the higher educational institutions of the Military Medical School of Ukraine.
          You delve into what you read or don’t comment.
        2. END
          0
          10 January 2021 08: 53
          Sea-Breeze 2017

      2. -1
        6 November 2018 13: 44
        Yes, they could not advance further than us, because we did not develop anything for a long period... Physically, there was nowhere to get any new ideas, much less developments. If they start developing it here, SHA will also have it. Until then, lasers, railguns and already worn-out stealth technology will continue to be polished.
        1. 0
          6 November 2018 18: 34
          Well, in fact, it's not like that. Read the American report at the link, if you speak English, it is “for our people” and quite old, they began collecting statistics on the effect in 1955.
    2. 0
      5 November 2018 18: 38
      And during ice reconnaissance flights over the Caspian Sea, I also observed a ring of light; there are no submarines there.


      What about Iranian missile submarines?
  90. +1
    4 November 2018 22: 22
    Yes, it looks like it's time to put our hands up.
  91. +1
    4 November 2018 23: 16
    Failures are not surprising, they are everywhere.
    The sad thing is that there is no systematic approach visible, but only constant twitching of different knobs and manual control knobs in tandem. And the result is zilch. A strong opinion is being created about the imitation of state activities by a gang of kids who miraculously found themselves at the helm. Gasoline prices cannot be defeated, but here the whole fleet needs to be raised)))
  92. -6
    5 November 2018 09: 52
    Another Trotskyist spit in the soul of those who created the power of our fleet at sea and behind the Pullman and another stone in the foundation of the monument to naval reformers, those who once again, after the history of the 20s, sent the ocean fleet for scrap metal for Korean furnaces. Discussing the author is not befitting the honor of sea patriots!
  93. +1
    5 November 2018 10: 48
    Quote: VSrostagro
    Or do you think the presence of icebreakers in our country greatly interferes with American nuclear submarines?

    Even our patrol and hydrographic boats with standard echo sounders interfere with them. Once again, I’ll repeat that I’m not dragging in sonar, but I don’t see any fundamental obstacles for the Russian Federation to have TENS (if not hundreds) of AUTOMATIC sonar devices in the Arctic, both stationary on the islands and drifting on ice and on ships and ships, with satellite communications. Not to mention the acoustic services of the KSF PLO. For us, the Arctic is far from virgin, as for the Atlantists. Well, for their nuclear submarines, as I understand it, tracking is starting from their bases, again starting from satellites. Sounds can also be written with them, in principle - heights and distances of 100-200 km are not the limit for aeroacoustics. Even sounds from the past are captured. sensitive equipment is.
    1. +1
      5 November 2018 19: 49
      Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
      altitudes and distances of 100-200 km are not the limit for aeroacoustics

      Acoustics in a vacuum? Oh well.
      1. +1
        5 November 2018 20: 31
        Lasers and locators from satellites scan acoustic waves on the surface of land and water. Have you heard about structural acoustics? Acoustic waves take place in every piece of metal, even a piece of metal that lies silently. But since they are walking in the atmosphere, that’s why aeroacoustics are at work here.
        1. -1
          11 November 2018 17: 06
          Quote: Mikhail Zubkov

          Lasers and locators from satellites scan acoustic waves on the surface of land and water.

          Are you ready to believe any nonsense? Give me 20 million at 300% per annum.
          1. 0
            11 November 2018 17: 45
            I worked at the USSR Embassy in the USA in the 70s, where even the children of diplomats knew about listening lasers aimed at the windows. Such a laser burned out the retina of one diplomat’s eye and made him disabled. Nonsense, do you think? Honor physics.
            1. 0
              15 November 2018 22: 50
              Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
              I worked at the USSR Embassy in the USA in the 70s, where even the children of diplomats knew about listening lasers aimed at the windows. Such a laser burned out the retina of one diplomat’s eye and made him disabled. Nonsense, do you think? Honor physics.
              Reply

              I honor physics, not fairy tales. Have you ever flown in a submarine?
    2. +1
      5 November 2018 20: 00
      This is how it is in the USA. Already done.
      True, not throughout the Arctic, but in some places.
  94. 0
    5 November 2018 16: 52
    It will take us a long time to get out of the cesspool into which we slipped in 91. In 50 years, maybe we’ll start building something more interesting than now, subject to development. And this is an optimistic forecast.
    I can only feel sorry for those who, without washing their hands after a cesspool, demand cake. After all, you still don’t understand what our country has experienced quite recently. We would just like to live. When the country is able to implement large-scale construction projects and scientific breakthroughs, you and I will no longer exist.
  95. +1
    5 November 2018 17: 26
    If this is really the case, then there are some inconsistencies in my head:
    1. If the submarine is so easy to detect and this is an outdated weapon, then why do the United States have so many of these outdated weapons? The argument that they know how to search and the rest do not seems unconvincing to me. If such a technique exists, it will either be stolen or an analogue will be developed. It's always been that way.
    2. Why wasn’t the Argentine submarine found using this miraculous method?
    1. 0
      5 November 2018 18: 40
      2. Why wasn’t the Argentine submarine found using this miraculous method?


      The method is too global...
      Argentine DPL is too small.

      To be serious, it had already sunk by that time.
      1. +1
        6 November 2018 09: 36
        the Argentine submarine is not small, but you correctly noted that the ocean is large, so it is more difficult to find a nuclear submarine there than an Argentine submarine
    2. +1
      5 November 2018 20: 04
      1. The deployment areas of their nuclear submarines in wartime will be covered by carrier-based aircraft; our anti-submarine officers will not be able to work there. They are simply beaten down. In addition, one of their three combat duty areas is in the Indian Ocean. We simply cannot get there. Well, in principle, their SSBNs are on duty either next to the continental United States, in the coverage area of ​​the ZGRLS, or next to the Diego Garcia AB, where you also don’t get scattered too much.

      2. The boat must move to produce a surface disturbance.
      1. 0
        5 November 2018 20: 46
        From Iran the Indian Ocean is more visible, from the Caspian Sea to the Seychelles is also achievable. But the main thing for us is to close the Arctic for them with missile defense and air defense forces. Up to ice airfields, jumping is quite possible.
      2. +1
        8 November 2018 08: 20
        at a depth of 200 meters, surface disturbance can be considered absent
        1. 0
          8 November 2018 10: 50
          You are ignorant. At a depth of 3, the diameter of the body, provided the mass of water is homogeneous, can be considered absent. And just passing through the current - and that’s it, a standing wave climbs out and is visible even from space.
          But the problem of the pop-up CS remains (I won’t decipher it on principle), which is unsolvable.
          Well, that’s all right with you, by the way.
  96. +5
    6 November 2018 09: 29
    the author is either naive. or bought by enemies of the people....firstly, completely without understanding the essence, he is promoting a fake about Orion. that is, either he got it on his paw from the CIA. or fell for an active campaign. Of course the boat leaves certain traces. and in general, at any point in the universe there are residual traces of any phenomenon. however, in addition to the boat, there are many other sources of traces underwater. and ripples on the water are simply created by winds and waves. In other words, you need to try to filter out noises of all kinds to identify a boat, so no matter how much you try to identify it, a boat can be caught from an airplane on a strip of 1-3 miles, and then with a certain probability, that is, in a calm and if it is not at depth. , that's the reality. The history of this fable is as follows: first, the Americans compared the number of submarines from different countries https://topwar.ru/144975-grafiki-pokazyvayuschie-sostav-podvodnyh-flotov-ssha-rossii-kitaya-i-evrosoyuza.html then they were afraid of really Russian submarines. https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201810260321-yotm.htm then they filmed Judas who, with references to mythical “anonymous sailors” and former amirals allegedly “saw something there in 1975,” began the costly promotion of the imaginary weakness of the submarine . And everything is determined after, instead of blah blah reasoning, like “the aunt in the queue said, and one pilot saw me asleep, and then told my friend with whom we accidentally met in the bathhouse, but this is of course accurate,” we begin to operate with numbers. So the CIA forgot in its information campaign to block its own mouthpiece, Wikipedia... https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D1 %83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD %D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BA
    1. -2
      6 November 2018 18: 46
      If you find yourself in a war, do not take up arms, throw hats at the enemy. Otherwise, if you take a machine gun, someone will think that you take the enemy seriously, and you will be ashamed.
  97. +1
    6 November 2018 11: 08
    not an article, but a bunch of incoherent thoughts.
    Author
    Moreover, in order to “get the hang of it,” we won’t necessarily have to fall into a conflict with the United States: after 2020, almost any more or less developed country in naval terms will be able to break up such an unstable system as the Russian Navy.

    which country exactly? What kind of definition is this?any more or less naval-rich country"? By what criteria is the assessment of a “more or less developed” country made? By tonnage? Well then, determine HOW, for example, the Royal Netherlands Navy, which is one of the 15th fleets in the world in terms of tonnage, mentors the Russian Navy? I would like a detailed analysis of this “battle.” Or maybe you did you mean the fleet of the Spanish or Turkish Navy, also among the dozen largest navies in the world in terms of tonnage?
    1. 0
      6 November 2018 16: 26
      According to SKTI, only the United States (NATO) and China can now have military superiority over the Russian Federation, and then without taking into account strategic nuclear forces, and strategic nuclear forces are still almost parity
    2. +1
      6 November 2018 18: 44
      Compare by the number of guided missile ships, submarines and combat aircraft.
      Moreover, adjusted for the theater of operations - for example, it will not be possible to transfer the cruiser "Varyag" from the Pacific Fleet to the Black Sea during a hypothetical war with Turkey.

      I don’t mean that Turkey can impose on us, but as an example of restrictions.
      You can compare the Pacific Fleet with the Japanese Self-Defense Forces Navy in terms of combat strength, for example. Interesting too.
      1. +1
        7 November 2018 05: 16
        timokhin-aa (Alexander Timokhin) Yesterday, 18:44
        Compare by the number of guided missile ships, submarines and combat aircraft.

        firstly, why is it “you compare”? You are the author of the idea, so justify it.
        Secondly, we understand the phrase “any” to mean at least any country that is at least in the world’s top ten in terms of tonnage.
        Thirdly, your phrase does not specify the theater of operations, but points to the entire Navy of the country. That is, not the Turkish Navy against the Russian Red Sea Fleet, but the Navy against the Navy. And precisely including all existing nuclear submarines, small submarines, aircraft carriers, missile cruise missiles, electric vehicles, BODs, MRKs, RKAs, naval aviation, etc.
        This is not what Türkiye can do to us

        Yes, just admit that in your desire to exaggerate the problems of the Russian fleet, you gave too much. Don't try to get out of it. It will be more honest.
        1. 0
          7 November 2018 08: 10
          It was you who came up trump card
          not an article, but a bunch of incoherent thoughts.

          After this, demanding any detailed answers is simply nonsense.
          1. +1
            7 November 2018 08: 22
            It was you who came up trump card
            not an article, but a bunch of incoherent thoughts.

            After this, demanding any detailed answers is simply nonsense.

            firstly, I expressed a subjective opinion and supported it with a specific example. To which no adequate answer has been received
            secondly, you should not act offended. Or did you only expect to hear fanfare? Just keep this in mind for the future when preparing materials. And it will be a plus for you
            1. -1
              7 November 2018 10: 21
              You expressed an opinion, but did not justify it with anything other than a flawed demand from a logical point of view:
              Thirdly, your phrase does not specify the theater of operations, but points to the entire Navy of the country. That is, not the Turkish Navy against the Russian Red Sea Fleet, but the Navy against the Navy. And precisely including all existing nuclear submarines, small submarines, aircraft carriers, missile cruise missiles, electric vehicles, BODs, MRKs, RKAs, naval aviation, etc.


              For your information, there are no such wars when both sides collect all their ships in a pile and arrange a dump of fleet against fleet.
              War is a complex process. And if Russia has theaters of operations isolated from each other, then this factor cannot be ignored.
              These are self-evident things.
              Of course, I could chew all this over for you if you were more polite, but since you are not more polite, then remain with your misconceptions.
              1. +1
                7 November 2018 10: 36
                For your information, there are no such wars when both sides collect all their ships in a pile and arrange a dump of fleet against fleet.

                Well, if war is a complex process with many components, then don’t be the first to talk bullshit about “Almost any more or less developed naval country will be able to break up such an unstable system as the Russian Navy after 2020". With this phrase, you admitted the possibility of a war on the principle of "fleet against fleet" WITHOUT taking into account other possibilities of the warring parties. When you were asked to clarify this assumption, you burst into accusations in the style of "you are a fool"))
                Let me summarize: you wrote nonsense, and then you yourself debunked this same nonsense. I don’t understand your burning butt-hair, as if you were accused of God knows what. Everyone can make a mistake, but not everyone can admit a mistake. You're clearly not one of those people.
              2. +1
                7 November 2018 10: 56
                timokhin-aa (Alexander Timokhin)
                You expressed an opinion, but did not justify it with anything other than a flawed demand from a logical point of view:

                Let us recall the logic of the author’s reasoning:
                Author states: “virtually any more or less developed naval country will be able to defeat the Russian Navy after 2020”
                я: So the Turkish Navy can defeat the entire Russian Navy, including the Pacific Fleet, KSF and KChF?
                Author: no, since Pacific Fleet and KSF are different theaters of operations
                я: Well, also the KSF and Pacific Fleet are components of the Russian Navy. How can you defeat the Russian Navy while leaving these fleets intact?
                Author: ahhh, your logic is flawed! I'm right because I'm right. And you don't have to prove anything
                ZANAVEZ
              3. 0
                11 November 2018 18: 06
                All Russian theaters of war have one online control center and the most efficient system in the world for the transfer of troops and weapons, including naval ones, from one theater of war to another. I assure you that even for the USA the Atlantic theater of operations is very good. separated from the Pacific. At the same time, they know for sure that in TMV the Panama Canal will be disabled on both sides.
      2. +2
        7 November 2018 21: 19
        great, we are covering Turkey with missiles from the European part of Russia (Iskanders, why waste Yars on them), and three salvoes of nuclear submarines in Japan, and also strategic nuclear forces in the eastern part of the country, Hiroshima will seem like paradise to them... and you are trifling about missiles and combat aircraft
  98. 0
    6 November 2018 12: 48
    I never thought that there were so many snotty whiners here... and how funny it is to watch how some citizens for the sake of + are ready to turn themselves inside out, thereby increasing their dull emergency)))
  99. +1
    6 November 2018 13: 01
    The devil is not so terrible as he is painted ...
    Historically, Russia was attacked only when it was openly weak.
    At the beginning of the Second World War, the USSR almost completely lacked a fleet and aviation, had weak artillery, practically no tanks, and there weren’t even enough boots for everyone.
    Yes, there were developments like the T-34 or BM-13, and after the Finnish war the KV-1, KV-2 remained, but all this was in very limited quantities.
    Whereas the Germans had the best combat aviation, radio communications, a fully equipped army and a serious fleet at that time. And the statements were the same - “to break the backward USSR in a few months.”
    The economy will rise, the fleet will modernize, there is no point in panicking.
    1. +1
      7 November 2018 10: 46
      Sergey, by June 22, 1941, we already had 1 thousand T-34s, is this news for you?
      1. 0
        13 November 2018 16: 03
        1225 according to the most daring data, but even this is critically low!
        Especially in a tank war.
        Especially considering the scale of the enemy’s offensive, its numbers, the presence of a clear offensive plan and tactics already proven in battle.
  100. +2
    6 November 2018 13: 24
    What to do? It’s very simple: you urgently need to find out the features of detecting submarines using radar. Impute these features to the Ilu-38, and ensure the closure of the reconnaissance-strike circuit to Onyxes, Iskanders and Daggers in PLO mode.
    Prohibit your submarines from swimming at depths of 0-300 m: only below. Ascent - only for impact. Find out the possibilities of retrofitting our AGS with combat weapons.
    And deal with Zvezda: find out why she was not given funds to expand production? First and last name.
    1. 0
      6 November 2018 18: 42
      They charged Ila with something, but it turned out badly. A lot of time was missed. Now we need to start over again, and make a new sighting system, and a new carrier.

      Regarding the sighting system, which is the most offensive thing, there are good developments, but things are not going any further; a number of heads must be removed from the responsible comrades in order for the matter to move forward.

      Depth won't help.

      The problem with Zvezda is precisely that they gave her money, and she even spent it on what she was given it for, but the task was initially set incorrectly.
      1. +2
        7 November 2018 21: 23
        explain why the depth will not help, and also compare the magnetic field of the earth (such a large maginite and the magnetic field of the nuclear submarine, and also compare the temperature effect of the nuclear submarine on the global temperatures of underwater currents in the ocean......for example, the Gulf Stream, and isolate this difference with taking into account the winds, waves, and why, and having settled it, find a boat there.
      2. +1
        10 November 2018 02: 34
        "Depth won't help."
        Why such confidence anyway? If you listen to me, the submarine is a useless technique. They see it under the ice, the depth will not help, at the slightest movement they will also find it. But what about the well-known Operation Atrina? There, the Americans and the British went out of their way to discover our submarines. And there are plenty of other examples.