Military Review

Iron defender of the USSR Dmitry Ustinov

91
110 years ago, 30 October 1908, the future Soviet statesman and military leader Dmitry Ustinov was born.


Over the years 40 he was one of the most influential people in the USSR. The name of Dmitry Ustinov is directly related to the implementation of the atomic project, the rearmament of the army with nuclear missile weapons, the creation of a reliable air defense shield of the country, the deployment and operation of the ocean atomic fleet.

Dmitry Fedorovich was born 17 (30) in October 1908, in Samara, in a large working class family and learned working life early. In 1922, Dmitry began serving as a volunteer at the CHON (special purpose units), then served in the 12 Turkestan Rifle Regiment. He participated in combat clashes with gangsters basmachis. After demobilization, he worked at the Balakhna pulp and paper mill and at the same time studied at the Makarievo vocational school. Then he went to Ivanovo-Voznesensk, where he worked at the Ivanovo-Voznesensk textile factory. In 1929, he entered the mechanical faculty of the Polytechnic Institute, got into the Moscow Higher Technical School. Bauman. In 1932, he was first transferred to the engineering institute, and then the Leningrad Military Mechanical Institute. There, Dmitry received a basic knowledge of the structure of the Soviet Armed Forces, the system of their material, technical and personnel support.

In 1934, he began work at the Leningrad Artillery Marine Research Institute as an engineer-designer. The rapid industrialization of the USSR opened the way for leading positions to people with excellent technical education. During this period, Dmitry Fedorovich received the necessary lessons of organization, efficiency, and a systematic approach from Academician A.N. Krylov. At the same time, Ustinov mastered the principle of combining fundamental scientific research, development work and production, which led to the timely updating of technological processes, technologies and equipment.

In 1937, Dmitry Fedorovich was transferred to the design office of the Bolshevik plant (former Obukhovsky plant). In 1938, he took over the business. Dmitry Ustinov worked hard on 12 — 14 hours a day, practically did not rest. I slept only 4-6 hours, it happened that I went to bed at 3 nights, and 6 was already working at one in the morning. And he worked tirelessly all day long, setting an example to those around him. This habit he will save all his life. Dmitry was noted as a talented organizer of production, quickly penetrated into all matters, participated in the design of new types of ship armaments, participated in trials. Already in 1939, the plant was awarded the Order of Lenin, 116 of its employees were awarded state awards. Dmitry Ustinov received his first Order of Lenin. In total, for his life filled with work, Ustinov became a knight of eleven orders of Lenin (there were only two such people).

It is also worth noting high human qualities of Dmitry Fedorovich. When Ustinov, already being Minister of Defense, traveled around the country, he always refused to take part in traditional feasts organized for the arrival of the high guest. He said: "You sit down, have a meal, and I will go talk to the soldiers and officers." Colonel-General Ivashov, who had been working alongside Ustinov for a long time, noted that after Dmitriy Fyodorovich became Minister of Defense, drunks, party games, hunting trips among defense personnel ceased (although they were a long-standing tradition). For Ustinov, there was nothing but public service. At the same time he was well versed in people, he sought to work with the best, which combine military, technical and human qualities. Therefore, the promotion of the personnel ladder at Ustinov went only on professional qualities. He was distinguished by the "Stalinist" demanding of people; the higher the post, the greater the responsibility.

Since June 9, 1941, Ustinov at the age of 33 headed the People's Commissariat of Armaments of the USSR. It was a responsible defense industry, which supplied its products not only to the army, but also tank, aviation and shipbuilding industries. The basis of the products of the People's Commissariat of Armament was artillery systems. Stalin personally controlled the activities of the People's Commissariat and attached great importance to the “God of War” (artillery).

Dmitry Fyodorovich made a great contribution to the general victory of the USSR over Hitler's Germany. Work had to be even more intensive than in the pre-war time. Sometimes they worked on 2-3 days in a row. The boundaries between day and night were erased. In the first months of the war, tremendous work had to be done to evacuate millions of people, hundreds of enterprises and tens of thousands of pieces of equipment. In these difficult days, the people's commissar Ustinov often visited factories and assisted in the deployment of factories to new places. So, 29 June began the evacuation of the largest in the industry enterprise "Arsenal". In August, just before the eyes of the Germans, the last train was sent. On the third day, the production started! The People's Commissariat was also evacuated to Perm. The task force led by Ustinov remained in Moscow, the other was sent to Kuybyshev, where the Soviet government was evacuated. At the same time it was necessary to increase and organize the release of weapons. Every day, the activities of the People's Commissariat of Weapons were reported personally to Stalin.

The work was arranged in such a way that in December 1941, the decline in production was halted, and from the beginning of 1942, the overall growth in armaments production was already evident. Nobody expected this in the West. The restructuring of the national economy on a war footing in the Soviet Union was completed as soon as possible. The plan for the end of 1942 of the year was not only fulfilled, but also exceeded. And this is a great merit of the Commissar himself, the designer, the organizer and the caring boss. Dmitry Fyodorovich knew every foreman at all enterprises, designers and the best workers, he knew well the production of the entire product range and problem areas in each department.

When by the beginning of December 1941, it was decided to create strategic reserves to strengthen the existing army, Ustinov accurately determined the amount of weapons and equipment for hundreds of rifle, artillery, anti-aircraft and tank formations of the RGK. To arm parts of the strategic reserve in a short time organized the production and supply of weapons with the plant, which were scattered throughout the Union. In 1942, Ustinov was awarded the title Hero of Socialist Labor.

It was a well-deserved reward. Ustinov was one of the "Soviet titans" who forged the victory of the USSR. As the head of the Main Artillery Directorate Nikolai Yakovlev noted, recalling those who ensured victory over Germany: “For some reason I remember the young people's commissar for weapons Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov: A mobile, with a keen gaze of smart eyes, a defiant head of golden hair. I do not know when he was sleeping, but it seemed that he was always on his feet. He was distinguished by invariable cheerfulness, the greatest goodwill towards people: He was a supporter of quick and bold decisions, thoroughly understood the most complex technical problems. And besides, he did not lose his human qualities for a minute. I remember that when we literally ran out of strength at long and frequent meetings, the bright smile and the relevant joke of Dmitry Fedorovich relieved the tension, infused new forces into the people around him. It seemed he was on the shoulder absolutely everything! ".

Thanks to Ustinov and other workers, Soviet industry surpassed the German one in terms of volume and quality of products. The correspondence duel between the German imperial minister A. Speer and D. F. Ustinov ended in favor of Stalin’s “iron commissar”. Thus, on average for the year, the enterprises of the People's Commissariat of Weapons gave the Red Army one and a half times more guns and 5 times more mortars than the industry of the German Empire and the countries occupied by it.

After the war, Dmitry Fedorovich kept his post, he only changed his name in 1946, the people's commissariat was transformed into a ministry. Ustinov became the USSR Minister of Armaments and held this post until 1953. In this period Dmitry Ustinov played an important role in the development of the rocket project, thanks to which Russia is still a great power, with which other powers are forced to reckon. Hiroshima and Nagasaki showed that the masters of the West are ready to use the most destructive weapons against the enemy - atomic bombs, and only the possession of advanced weapons will keep the security of the peoples of the USSR. Ustinov, coordinating the work of research institutes, design bureaus, industrial enterprises for the needs of the country's defense, played an extremely important role in creating a fundamentally new type of strategic weapons - ballistic missiles. The People's Commissariat of Armaments had no direct relation to rocket technology, but already in 1945, Dmitry Ustinov gave a correct prediction to the development of military equipment and weapons. Largely due to his perseverance, the Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) of 13 in May of 1946 was issued, which provided for the establishment of the rocket industry, rocket range and specialized rocket units. No wonder that the Deputy Chairman of the State Commission 18 in October 1948 on the first launch of the A-4 ballistic missile from the Kapustin Yar launch site was Dmitry Ustinov.

In 1953, Mr. Ustinov becomes Minister of Defense Industry of the USSR, the old department was enlarged. During this period, being an ardent admirer of the development of advanced weapons, Ustinov played a major role in strengthening the nuclear missile potential of the Soviet Union. Supporting Khrushchev and moving up the administrative ladder - having received the post of chairman of the Supreme Economic Council of the USSR, and deputy (from 1963 of the year - first deputy) chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, Dmitry Ustinov pushed the interests of the military-industrial complex and the nuclear-missile industry. What is interesting, while Ustinov did not renounce Stalin the years of debunking the "personality cult".

In the year 1957, Ustinov became the head of acceptance of the first nuclear submarine. Dmitry Fedorovich played a prominent role in the creation and deployment of the ocean nuclear fleet. Ustinov became the “godfather” of many nuclear powered ships, including heavy strategic missile submarines of the 941 “Shark” project. Ustinov played a big role in the development of the electronic industry, which is necessary for the development of the defense complex, primarily rocket weapons. On his initiative, Zelenograd was founded, focused on the development of electronics and microelectronics.

Khrushchev, who himself was an active supporter of the development of the missile sphere, supported Ustinov. True, the process of strengthening the nuclear missile potential of the USSR was to the detriment of conventional weapons, during the Khrushchev rule many non-nuclear projects suffered great damage, sharply reduced conventional armed forces with the disposal of a huge amount of modern weapons. Serious damage during this period suffered the Soviet fleet. It must be said that Ustinov shared the popular opinion among the top Soviet leaders on the moral obsolescence of large surface ships.

After the removal of Nikita Khrushchev from power, Ustinov, although he left the post in the Council of Ministers, retained influence in the military industry. It must be said that Ustinov, who initially supported Khrushchev, in particular, during the speech of the so-called. The anti-party group eventually became an active participant in the anti-Khrushchev conspiracy. Obviously, over time, he saw the sabotage of Khrushchev in the country's defense. From 1976, Ustinov headed the USSR Ministry of Defense and became a member of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee. In the political sphere, Ustinov until the last supported Brezhnev.

Iron defender of the USSR Dmitry Ustinov

At the exhibition of aviation weapons. From left to right: D. F. Ustinov - Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, P. S. Kutahov - Deputy Commander of the Air Force, M. N. Mishuk - Deputy Commander of the Air Force, L. I. Brezhnev - General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, L. V. Smirnov - Deputy Chairman of the USSR Council of Ministers, P. S. Dementiev - Minister of the USSR Aviation Industry

Having a huge influence in the military industrial complex, Ustinov, although he removed a number of obvious distortions in the development of the Soviet military machine, but could not change the general trend. As a result, the interests of the military industrial complex most often stood above the interests of the Armed Forces, the defense order was formed on the basis of the interests of industry. Among the most well-known examples of this bias are: adopting in the 1960-1970-ies three close in combat capabilities, but seriously differing in design tanks (T-64, T-72, T-80); the heterogeneity of the naval missile complexes with a tendency to build new ships for each new complex, instead of upgrading the previous ones. In addition, Ustinov was one of the main opponents of the construction of aircraft carriers of the classical type, which led to the emergence of heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers.

After becoming Minister of Defense of the USSR, Ustinov radically changed the military doctrine. Before him, the USSR armed forces were preparing for a high intensity non-nuclear conflict in Europe and the Far East, where powerful armored forces were to play the main role. Dmitry Fyodorovich made the main emphasis on a sharp increase and modernization of the operational-tactical nuclear potential of the Soviet troops in the European sector. The medium-range missile system RSD-10 "Pioneer" (SS-20) and the operational-tactical complexes OTP-22 and OTP-23 "Oka" were supposed to pave the way for the tank divisions of the USSR in Europe. Ustinov completed the creation of a strategic management system for the Armed Forces and their groups with the introduction of the latest systems and means of automated control. Also, his merit is the creation in the countries of the Warsaw Pact of its own military industry and equipping the allied armies with the latest military equipment and weapons.

Many contemporaries noted the ability of Marshal of the Soviet Union Ustinov to select from the existing projects the best and most distinguished ones. So, a whole stratum of life of a great statesman was associated with the organization of air defense of the USSR. Back in 1948, Joseph Stalin set the task to organize a reliable defense of Moscow. In 1950, the Third Main Directorate of the USSR Council of Ministers (TSU) was created. In the shortest possible time - for four and a half years, they created the Moscow air defense system, where C-25 systems were on duty. For its time, it was a technical masterpiece - the first multi-channel anti-aircraft missile system. With the support of Ustinov in 1961, they adopted the short-range anti-aircraft missile system C-125. Ustinov was also an active supporter of adopting the C-200 long-range anti-aircraft missile system. Under his control, the C-300 air defense system was created. Knowing perfectly all the preceding complexes, Dmitry Fedorovich delved into the smallest details and made the most stringent requirements for the new anti-aircraft missile system.

It must be said that in fact under the leadership of Ustinovwho became the only national leader of such a rank who held key positions in the defense complex of the USSR under Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko, such an effective and durable defense system was created in the country that it allowed Russia to remain safe for a long time after the collapse of the USSR. Under the leadership of Ustinov, almost all types of main weapons, which are now in service with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, were developed and put into production. These are the T-72 and T-80 tanks, the BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicles, the Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters, the Tu-160 strategic bomber, the C-300 air defense missile system and many other weapons and equipment that have still been used in combat. efficiency and forcing the world around us to restrain their aggression towards Russian civilization. These types of weapons and their modifications will protect Russia for a long time. And this is the merit of the “Stalinist people's commissar” Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov. Thanks to such titanium people, the Soviet Union was a superpower that preserved peace throughout the world. When the last titans like Ustinov left, they were able to destroy the Soviet Union.

Ustinov headed the Ministry of Defense until his death 20 December 1984 g. He died at the post. DF Ustinov - Hero of the Soviet Union and twice Hero of Socialist Labor, awarded 11 with the Order of Lenin, the Order of Suvorov 1-th Art., The Order of Kutuzov 1-th Art., Medals of the USSR, orders and medals of foreign states. Winner of the Lenin and two State Prizes of the USSR.


Marshals of the Soviet Union N. V. Ogarkov, D. F. Ustinov and Army General A. A. Epishev together with paratroopers during the West-81 exercises. Photo source: https://ru.wikipedia.org
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  1. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 30 October 2018 05: 38
    +15
    My minister. And that says it all. I didn’t feel the shame of being the Minister of Defense to bury my army, like Kulikov and all who follow him ..
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 30 October 2018 05: 51
      +13
      Ustinov, Gromyko ... this bunch of great people ... fighters ... their affairs broke through all the walls in the world ... even the most frostbitten countries and organizations considered them.
      How now we are missing these people ... with such fighting qualities.
    2. Finches
      Finches 30 October 2018 06: 26
      +31
      I have a friend, he says: "Marshal Ustinov took me into the army, and reserve lieutenant Serdyukov fired me! " - in one phrase, the betrayal and degradation of a great state!
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 30 October 2018 11: 54
        +7
        I wonder what he would say about the mummy Shoigu ...
      2. Fitter65
        Fitter65 30 October 2018 12: 48
        +8
        Quote: Finches
        I have a friend, he says: "Marshal Ustinov took me into the army, and reserve lieutenant Serdyukov fired me! " - in one phrase, the betrayal and degradation of a great state!

        I have exactly the same story, called up under Dmitry Fedorovich, fired by a stool.
    3. bober1982
      bober1982 30 October 2018 09: 04
      +1
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      like Kulikov and everyone else following him ..

      Kulikov was not the Minister of Defense.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 30 October 2018 11: 12
        +1
        Quote: bober1982
        Kulikov was not the Minister of Defense.

        Oh, what's the difference !!! laughing
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 30 October 2018 12: 59
          +4
          Quote: Serg65
          Oh, what's the difference !!!

          Indeed, who cares, you can mention Kutuzov.
  2. bald
    bald 30 October 2018 06: 10
    +2
    Rest in peace. I have his color photo, in a demobilization album, sheathed with an overcoat, on the first page of 80 n 82, and by his order - N 242.
  3. Conductor
    Conductor 30 October 2018 06: 49
    +12
    The Stalinist cohort is not a minister from the Ministry of Emergencies, nor is an army general a drummer of communist labor, a successful businessman and security guard.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 30 October 2018 12: 39
      +5
      Quote: Conductor
      This is not a minister from the Ministry of Emergencies

      Welcome fellow countryman hi
      Do you want the real truth about the "Stalinist People's Commissar"?
      Ustinov was truly a man of the Stalinist cohort, a master of intrigue, knew how to wait, and was able to achieve the desired! Even after becoming Minister of Defense, he continued to steer the military-industrial complex, i.e. he made a defense order for himself and carried it out himself, inflated the army to an incredible size i.e. made not a country with an army, but an army with a country! It was Ustinov who led to power, the ideological father of Gorbachev, comrade Andropov, and this united the army and the KGB in almost the same hands, it was Ustinov who brought power to Gorbachev, it was Ustinov who, together with his best friend Andropov, lobbied for the Soviet army to enter Afghanistan! It was Ustinov who filled the general staff with slime-type Akhromeev, removing real professional staff. It was Ustinov, along with his friend Andropov, who dragged the USSR into a flawed race with SDI. It was Ustinov who, for the sake of the military-industrial complex, flooded the army with costly worthless and expensive projects!
      Such was the great "Stalinist" Ustinov!
      Gentlemen, comrades, praisers of Ustinov, I know that you will not like the truth, but it’s so true!
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 30 October 2018 14: 37
        +9
        Gentlemen, comrades, praisers of Ustinov, I know that you will not like the truth, but it’s so true!

        Any information is needed ... any information can be analyzed ... your information (without facts) about anything ... I could just as well throw shit at a fan on anyone.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 October 2018 08: 58
          -1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          your information (without facts) about anything

          laughing Alexei, you might think you need facts, especially since you already decided everything!
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          i could just as well throw shit on a fan on anyone

          bully What are you doing so well!
      2. Mitya2424
        Mitya2424 30 October 2018 16: 33
        +6
        "True truth", "truth" ..... well, why all this? Today is the day of remembrance, when we Orthodox Christians are either good or nothing !!!
        Obviously, there are no unambiguously positive characters in history and there will always be connoisseurs of the "truth" about the bloody Peter I, the lascivious Catherine II, the maniac Stalin ...
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 October 2018 09: 00
          -3
          Quote: Mitya2424
          when we have - the Orthodox are either good or nothing !!!

          Strange how you use your Orthodoxy, selectively! Ustinov, here we are Orthodox! Nicholas II, here we are no longer Orthodox, but Communists ... chase Nikolashka into the neck !!!
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 30 October 2018 19: 36
        +6
        Quote: Serg65
        It was Ustinov who filled the general staff with slime-type Akhromeev, removing real professional staff.

        Here you got the hang of it - Akhromeev was smart, and he was very respected in the General Staff, in which you obviously did not serve, otherwise you would not have written such stupidity.
        Quote: Serg65
        Gentlemen, comrades, praisers of Ustinov, I know that you will not like the truth, but it’s so true!

        I am not trying to praise Ustinov, but simply tried to give him an assessment, which I consider objective from the point of view of a military man who found the entire period of his stay at the post of Moscow Region.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 October 2018 08: 55
          -1
          Quote: ccsr
          Here you are

          I do not argue that I did not serve in the General Staff. I usually judge people by their deeds. Here you are, as a specialist in the General Staff, tell me .... how can you from a colonel-general become a marshal in 5 years? Akhromeev was really a military professional, I don't argue here! But as the head of the GOU, it was he who planned the introduction of the SA into Afghanistan, right? Then the question is natural ..... why the units allocated for the input were completed according to the principle "God forbid that I don't like", why these units included "partisans", why the routes of movement of the military columns were not well thought out, why ... why why why??? And the most important question .... why was Ogarkov worse than Akhromeev, what did Nikolai Vasilyevich not like Ustinov ??
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 31 October 2018 10: 29
            +3
            Quote: Serg65
            I do not argue, he did not serve in the General Staff. I usually judge people according to their affairs. Here you are, as a specialist in the General Staff, answer .... how can I become a marshal from Colonel General in 5 years?

            Silently - clever people are immediately evident from their deeds, which is why Akhromeev, becoming an NGS, got what he deserved.

            Quote: Serg65
            Then the question is natural ..... why the units allocated for input were completed according to the principle "God forbid, that I don't like", why these units included "partisans", why the routes of movement of the military columns were not well thought out, why ... why why why???

            Because in our doctrines and, accordingly, in our plans for combat training, it was nowhere prescribed that the SA would perform police functions in a foreign country with a very complex theater of operations. Hence, many errors that are characteristic of the initial period. As for the "partisans" and other local contingent, this is primarily due to the mentality of the peoples of that region, which is why they were called up in the first place.
            Quote: Serg65
            And the most important question .... why was Ogarkov worse than Akhromeev, than Nikolai Vasilievich did not like Ustinov ??

            I can recommend Kikeshev's book "Get Up and Go" - it describes in detail everything that happened then from the words of another Soviet military leader.
      4. faterdom
        faterdom 30 October 2018 23: 56
        0
        To the mountain of nonsense! About Afghanistan - it's something! In fact, it has been declassified for a long time, and it can be said - it is well known that as far as Andropov pushed the decision on Afghanistan, so did Ustinov opposed him. It’s another matter that when the decision of the Central Committee’s PB was adopted, it was, of course, executed by the Minister of Defense, and it couldn’t be different.
      5. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 31 October 2018 10: 47
        -3
        Starting from the war with V.G. Grabin, D.F. Ustinov all his life tried to crush talented designers and managers, and appropriate their achievements to himself. Ruinous projects such as "Sharks" and the maintenance of an excessively bloated, but little combat-ready army only brought the end of the USSR closer. At the same time, the renewal of the fixed assets of the defense industry and R&D clearly lagged behind needs, which gave rise to disbelief in their own strength and exaggeration of the enemy's capabilities. The incompetence of the General Staff and the Politburo closed a vicious circle, bringing everything to a natural end.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 31 October 2018 11: 16
          +4
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Starting from the war with V.G. Grabin, D.F.Ustinov tried all his life to crush talented designers and managers, and to appropriate their achievements to himself.

          Reduce the revealing ardor - thanks in large part to D.F.Ustinov, we have such a nuclear missile shield that, even now, after all the cataclysms and devastation of the nineties, allows us to destroy any country in the world. It is unlikely that the guns of talented designers would provide us with this - this is a fact. By the way, besides the Americans, no one in the world came close to this, so at least for the sake of a fair assessment, do not smear everything with black paint.
          1. Victor Leningradets
            Victor Leningradets 31 October 2018 12: 41
            +1
            About rockets - a separate and rather unpleasant conversation for D.F. Ustinova. The necessary and sufficient level of a missile shield was provided through his head directly to the Politburo and the Design Bureau. Here is the RSMD - his merit.
            And the F-22 cannon destroyed a lot of our T-34 and KVs in 1941-1943. (with a considerable number of tankers). Thanks to the Narcom who advocated the use of shots for the three-inch, instead of the modern powerful ammunition proposed in the original version. But the Germans did just that with the captured F-22 guns, reamed the chamber and used a new powerful unitary cartridge. No, not akht-akht with a 2x2-meter shield was the main enemy of our tanks in 1942, but a "deserter viper" that cannot be seen in the tall grass. And we have USV and ZiS-3 with the same damn three-inch aircraft, which does not take the modernized "four" in the forehead!
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 31 October 2018 18: 14
              +2
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              About rockets - a separate and rather unpleasant conversation for D.F. Ustinova. The necessary and sufficient level of a missile shield was provided through his head directly to the Politburo and the Design Bureau.

              How do you imagine this, I do not know, but taking into account the positions of D.F. Ustinov in the 50-60s, not a single Resolution could be implemented without his endorsement. And to find something to find fault with and wrap up any draft Resolution he was "like two fingers on the asphalt." If you have any other reliable information, then I would like to hear it.
              1. Victor Leningradets
                Victor Leningradets 1 November 2018 13: 25
                0
                Simple enough. The entire strategic program (nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles) was supervised in the 40-50s. Politburo. KB Korolev, Chelomeya, Tupolev Lavochkin, Myasishchev directly answered the Politburo. The performers did not belong to the Ministry of Defense, he was engaged in conventional weapons. Hence the fireworks of projects - often dead ends, because there were no ideas. copied the development of the United States. The role of Ustinov at this time was supervision of the execution of orders and the war with the chief designers.
                Further, the deployment of the missile program came under his leadership. It turned out here. that the level of industry does not correspond to the task of mass production of complex systems and that a stage has begun that can be called permanent technical re-equipment of enterprises and the dictates of technologists (the most terrible retrogrades, often hunching design decisions).
                Hence the mass of weapons not connected with the main ideas of efficiency, but created taking into account the available capabilities. This happened not only in rocket science, but everywhere in aviation and shipbuilding. The designers rebelled and began to slowly change them into more docile, and at the same time thieves.
                What this led to I personally fell in love with in the 70-80s, when the Chief Designer became a dummy, and the old people - the former Deputies of the former Chief tried to do something. Nothing new was realized - the technologists were against it. CAD and ASKIO went into business late. It's amazing that at least something was possible.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 1 November 2018 13: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  Simple enough. The entire strategic program (nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles) was supervised in the 40-50s. Politburo.

                  Neither you nor I served at that time, but any competent person understands that the military planning documents are submitted to the Politburo by the executors, who necessarily passed the coordination with the industry, and more precisely with Ustinov, who was responsible for the country's armaments, and later was deputy chairman Council of Ministers. How it could be circumvented, I have no idea. Can you tell me that someone, bypassing his conclusion, could push his program to the Politburo?
                  Here is the list of posts that D.F.Ustinov held after the war:
                  March 15, 1946 - March 15, 1953 - Minister of Armament of the USSR.
                  March 19, 1953 - December 14, 1957 - Minister of Defense of the USSR.
                  December 14, 1957 - March 13, 1963 - Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, chairman of the Commission of the Presidium of the Council of Ministers of the USSR on military-industrial issues.

                  For the preparation of the first manned space flight (Yu. A. Gagarin, April 12 of the 1961 of the year) he was awarded the title of Hero of Socialist Labor (decree was not published) [6].

                  Something is not strong, I believe that one of the generals at that time would risk circumventing him ...
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 1 November 2018 14: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  Hence the mass of weapons not connected with the main ideas of efficiency, but created taking into account the available capabilities. This happened not only in rocket science, but everywhere in aviation and shipbuilding.

                  These are our native gas customers from the Ministry of Defense tried - commanders set tasks for them, and they tried to fulfill all the wishes. I know how it all happened.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 31 October 2018 12: 52
            +3
            Quote: ccsr
            Temper the revealing fervor

            Oh come on!
            As a specialist, tell me why the "Ogarkov Doctrine" is now in demand, and in 84 was the reason for Ogarkov's resignation?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 31 October 2018 18: 10
              +2
              Quote: Serg65
              tell me why the "Ogarkov Doctrine" is now in demand, and in 84 was the reason for Ogarkov's resignation?

              I told you that the origins of the resignation should not be sought in his activities, but in personal relations with Ustinov - Varennikov, who was a witness to what was happening, told about this.
            2. strannik1985
              strannik1985 31 October 2018 18: 22
              +1
              The reason was leapfrog with anti-aircraft defense, the reform was found to be erroneous, the commission of the Central Committee of the CPSU worked from 1982 to 1984, and as a result, it was removed from the NSS in the Civil Code ZN.
      6. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 31 October 2018 23: 38
        -2
        Yes. Andropov also contributed to the career of Mikhail Sergeyevich and the Afghan adventure.
  4. akunin
    akunin 30 October 2018 09: 01
    +4
    It is also worth noting the high human qualities of Dmitry Fedorovich. When Ustinov, already being the Minister of Defense, traveled around the country, he always refused to take part in the traditional feasts organized for the arrival of a distinguished guest.
    I saw Ustinov in Ulyanovsk at an "aviastar" (he served in a construction battalion). he came there with an inspection. we didn’t go to lunch, we wanted to see a live person (we climbed under the ceiling of the 3rd workshop). they all dispersed, the equipment was turned off, silence in the workshop. Ustinov was walking with 4 majors (maybe security?) and about something then our regimental commander materializes (with a height of 1.5m he has a Shtokolov bass) and begins to cheerfully report: "at the facility entrusted to me, in the unit entrusted to me ... blah blah blah ...", but reported to the fifth point of the marshal .ustinov, as the booty stood to our regiment commander, and continued to stand until the end of the report. without a word went further with the majors in the shop, discussing something. our regimental commander gave a military salute to the marshal's fifth point for another two minutes.
    high human qualities of Dmitry Fedorovich
    I saw it myself.
    1. wax
      wax 30 October 2018 10: 52
      -1
      I saw, but still do not understand.
      1. akunin
        akunin 31 October 2018 08: 56
        +1
        Quote: Wax
        got it
        , then explain to me, the moron, the deep meaning of this action.
        After all, he could have turned at least half a turn, and not humiliate the kompolka. Or is this an educational moment?
    2. katkasi
      katkasi 31 October 2018 13: 28
      0
      Ustinov's arrival was somewhere in the winter of 1982. At that time, after military service, I worked on the assembly and installation of 96-meter farms in the assembly workshop. In the morning, the construction battalions were sweeping the streets from snow from the bridge to the aircraft factory. After lunch, our team was resting, playing dominoes. Suddenly black Volgas drove up to our cabins. We just got out of the cabins, and then 2 bullies under 1,9 meters showed us their fists, and told us to sit quietly in their trailer. Ustinov saw only a glimpse of about a hundred meters.
  5. bubalik
    bubalik 30 October 2018 09: 48
    0
    in his 33, he headed the USSR Commissariat of Armaments.
    ,, I can not imagine nowadays managers in such a position .. request what kind of personal responsibility should a person have, now there are none,
  6. bubalik
    bubalik 30 October 2018 09: 53
    0
    The work was arranged in such a way that in December 1941, the decline in production was halted, and from the beginning of 1942, the overall growth in armaments production was already evident. Nobody expected this in the West. The restructuring of the national economy on a war footing in the Soviet Union was completed as soon as possible. The plan for the end of 1942 of the year was not only fulfilled, but also exceeded.
    ,, why now there is no such thing, what's stopping? ,, how many years have passed, recourse
    1. pogis
      pogis 30 October 2018 17: 08
      +2
      Because now they do not do such things!
      1. goose
        goose 31 October 2018 09: 18
        +2
        Because now they do not do such things!

        Rather, do not promote. Social elevators disappeared with the disappearance of the USSR. No more talented people are needed, trusted ones are needed.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 October 2018 20: 18
      +5
      Quote: bubalik
      .... ,, why now there is no such thing that interferes ?, how many years have passed, recourse

      This is the generation of Winners.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 31 October 2018 15: 43
        0
        Yes, that's for sure, winners, but in personal messages, I can’t write to you anymore. Site rules are new, or something. You can, for now, yet.
  7. bubalik
    bubalik 30 October 2018 10: 03
    0
    Order of Suvorov 1 st., Order of Kutuzov 1 st.
    ,, here it is not clear, according to the statute (the rear man) is not allowed or am I wrong, request
    1. Conductor
      Conductor 30 October 2018 12: 31
      +2
      the statute of the order did not quite foresee this. but for his contribution to the defense of the fatherland. . at me. my uncle’s wife’s uncle. in December 1941 he was awarded the Order of Honor. was an inyantant. but commanded a rifle company.
  8. ccsr
    ccsr 30 October 2018 11: 21
    +11
    The article is of great interest, and for many it will be useful in terms of understanding the merits of this person to the country, which will undoubtedly remain in our history. But since I began to serve under Grechko, and was dismissed under Radionov, I have my own opinion on everything that is described in the article, and in particular on the actions of D.F.Ustinov himself while he was at the post of the Moscow Region.
    In the above picture
    Marshals of the Soviet Union N. V. Ogarkov, D. F. Ustinov and Army General A. A. Epishev, along with paratroopers during the West-81 exercises.
    very competent NGSH N.V. is shown Ogarkov, who enjoyed a well-deserved authority in the army, and who was fired precisely because of his personal relationship with D.F.Ustinov, somehow does not remember much about this plot and its consequences, as well as about what caused the dismissal of the front-line soldier.
    Moreover, under Ustinov, the concept of waging "two wars" did not change at all, and we were forced to maintain an army of four million of two types, although already in the sixties our nuclear potential made it possible to destroy any state in the world. What Ustinov personally did to reduce our army, and in particular its component in the form of the Ground Forces, during his tenure as minister - the author of the article somehow bypassed this question, but it is very important.
    I thought before and still believe that the appointment of D.F.Ustinov to the post of Minister of Defense was a big mistake both for the country and for him personally, because at his post in the military-industrial complex he was much more useful to our society, and no one did his merit belittles. But as a military leader, he turned out to be a hostage to the military-industrial complex, and this led to a bias in the creation of weapons programs and the distribution of funding between the types and types of troops.
    As a result, this led to unjustified expenses on defense, and especially given the war in Afghanistan, greatly influenced the attitude of the people towards what the party was doing at that time. One saga with "Buran", when the industry sold this development to the military, best of all suggests that DF Ustinov already did not understand well what the army needed, which is why he fell for the sweet speeches of those who wanted to push it through defense articles budget.
    That is why now, seeing how everything happened then, and what we came to, you understand what consequences could have been avoided if DF Ustinov did not appear at the post of the Moscow Region. But he could refuse this - his personal authority was unshakable, and it was unlikely that Brezhnev forced him to head this post.
    So, not everything was so simple, as the author of the article describes - it’s too tragic the story for us, and those who led the USSR before the collapse are somehow responsible for what happened ...
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 30 October 2018 14: 20
      +2
      As for the ambiguity and ambiguity, I agree. Started at Grechko finished at Grachev. Ustinov was more a civilian, but realizing that the country should have good weapons. His poor knowledge of modern combined arms combat was reflected in his preference for weapons. Afghanistan has shown it. It was then that it became clear that fighting on such a science was no longer possible. But he was no worse than Grachev and those with whose filing the Chechen wars started, and the military did not wear uniforms in cities, who gave orders to shoot Parliament from tanks, who sold the property and land of the Moscow Region and ruined what turned the army into a monster devouring young guys. Remember, did the barracks collapse under him or did the recruits die from pneumonia? Now everything is clear and understandable, but with him the military personnel of the VD countries smiled at us, and the Americans did not conduct exercises near the borders ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 30 October 2018 19: 16
        +7
        Quote: ROSS 42
        But he was no worse than Grachev and those

        Grachev is not the Minister of Defense at all, but a miserable semblance of a military commander who has reached the highest post in the army, and whose stupidity among military men is associated with his creeping out before the drunk. Naturally, putting him in comparison with Ustinov is simply immoral - at least Ustinov was an honest and decent person.
      2. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 31 October 2018 23: 41
        -2
        Grachev jumped straight from the commander of the division into ministers. It is unclear how he could carry out the collegiums of the Defense Ministry.
    2. Jipo
      Jipo 30 October 2018 15: 26
      +1
      Three MBTs - well, why? He never met the T-64 expectations, the T-80 is voracious and impossible, and the T-72 is a surrogate from the first two, it turned out to be more tenacious, since there was a reserve in the modernization, and it was easier and simpler.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 30 October 2018 18: 10
        +1
        Quote: JIPO
        Three MBTs - well, why? He never met the T-64 expectations, the T-80 is voracious and impossible, and the T-72 is a surrogate from the first two, it turned out to be more tenacious, since there was a reserve in the modernization, and it was easier and simpler.

        Duc ... the dictates of industry.
        At first theoretically everything was just fine: the troops were to receive a single T-64 MBT in two models - "elite" and "simplified". Kharkov was supposed to make an "elite" T-64 for the first echelon, Tagil - a "simplified" T-64 for the second echelon and eastern districts.
        But when it came down to it, it turned out that Tagil T-64 could not and did not want to. "It cannot" in the sense that in order to switch to a Kharkov tank, the plant needs reconstruction at the cost of a half-plant and for a period of several years. And "does not want" in the sense that Tagil already has his own project of a mass mobilization tank, which the plant can do without reconstruction. In general, the Council of Ministers was not ready to spend money and time on reconstruction, and instead of the simplified T-64, a second type of MBT appeared - the T-72.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 31 October 2018 14: 37
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          At first, in theory, everything was just fine: the troops were to receive a single T-64 MBT in two models - "elite" and "simplified".

          It is believed that in Nizhny Tagil, even before the T-64, they offered the option of upgrading the T-62 (167М) in terms of the set of characteristics, which is close to the T-72 actually received later and better than planned for the T-64 series. But someone in Kharkov or Moscow apparently needed a sensational new generation tank.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 31 October 2018 15: 35
            0
            Quote: Alex_59
            It is believed that in Nizhny Tagil, even before the T-64, they offered the option of upgrading the T-62 (167M) in terms of the set of characteristics close to the T-72 actually received later and better than planned for the T-64 series.

            Duc ... how else could the Tagilians be able to put up their replacement for the "simplified" T-64 so quickly? Naturally, they did not stop working on their tank - here who did not have time, he was late for the budget pie. smile
    3. pogis
      pogis 30 October 2018 17: 27
      0
      Controversial comment, but like you! Three types of main tanks, 3 type of combat helicopters. In the artillery 2A65 and 2A36, well, on the x-th at such a fleet of self-propelled guns 2-36, who saw this fool will not forget when. Well, the fleet, a separate song and with the biggest fees!
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 30 October 2018 17: 39
        0
        Chasing the range, 2A65 howitzer, 2A36 gun.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 30 October 2018 19: 29
        +2
        Quote: pogis
        Controversial comment, but like you!

        I do not think that those who found Ustinov, and even connected with weapons programs, will begin to deny what I wrote.
        Quote: pogis
        Three types of main tanks, 3 types of combat helicopters. In the artillery 2A65 and 2A36, well, on the x-th with such a fleet of self-propelled guns 2a36, whoever saw this fool will not forget when.

        At the GSVG at the Shperenberg airfield, the group’s arms and equipment were periodically displayed during classes with regiment commanders, individual chat rooms and group headquarters officers. Those who saw all this, from the field bakery to the bombers capable of carrying nuclear weapons, involuntarily thought, and what for we have so much there, and even on a limited theater of operations. So we ruined ourselves, and Ustinov, unfortunately, could not radically change the approach to the created weapon systems and their number.
        Quote: pogis
        Well, the fleet, a separate song and with the biggest fees!

        These were spent so that other types of aircraft never dreamed of. But the submarine fleet was the right direction, but our surface fleet was not created from a great mind.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 October 2018 09: 04
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          but our surface was not created from a great mind.

          bully And who created the fleet from a small mind, aren't Ustinov?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 31 October 2018 10: 38
            0
            Quote: Serg65
            And who created the fleet from a small mind, aren't Ustinov?

            You apparently do not know who Gorshkov is and what authority he enjoyed among the party and military leadership of the country. But Ustinov really could not restrict the appetites of this naval commander, especially since Brezhnev believed that our fleet should be no less than the American one, although this is of course stupidity. By the way, here is an example from our current life - someone can explain reasonably why we have exaggerated the program of creating aircraft carriers, and why we still haven't abandoned them. I don't even want to give an example with "Mistrals" - utter nonsense, and as always, no one is to blame that they were ordered, although they were not needed for nothing.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 31 October 2018 12: 18
              +1
              Quote: ccsr
              You probably don’t know who Gorshkov is

              You may have served in the General Staff, but you did not serve in the Navy !!!
              Not only did he know, but had the honor of a personal conversation!
              Quote: ccsr
              Ustinov really could not limit the appetites of this naval commander

              bully Are you joking like that? Eagles, Gyrfalcons, Sharks are Ustinov's favorite toys, Gorshkov only nodded his head nervously!
              Quote: ccsr
              here is an example from today's life - can anyone explain sanely why the program for creating aircraft carriers is being discussed

              Were you definitely associated with GS?
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 31 October 2018 12: 34
                0
                Quote: Serg65
                You may have served in the General Staff, but you did not serve in the Navy !!!

                It’s enough for me that I have repeatedly visited B. Kozlovsky on some matters.
                Quote: Serg65
                Are you joking like that? Eagles, Gyrfalcons, Sharks are Ustinov's favorite toys, Gorshkov only nodded his head nervously!

                I don’t know who loved what more, but the fact that the fleet ruined us more than other types of aircraft, I know for sure.
                Quote: Serg65
                Were you definitely associated with GS?

                Now I am only associated with retirement. But the story with Hurs is familiar to me much better than you - I think so.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 31 October 2018 13: 15
                  0
                  Quote: ccsr
                  It’s enough for me that I have been to B. Kozlovsky on several occasions

                  Clear! That is, Admiral Turunov’s thoughts are quite enough to appreciate the naval doctrine!
                  Quote: ccsr
                  but the fact that the fleet has ruined us more than other types of aircraft, I know for sure.

                  bully And tens of thousands of tanks of 3 types, an army inflated to an incredible size, 8 thousand nuclear warheads, the destruction of mountain rifle units, and when the Afghan rooster pecked in the seat, the creation of the same units on the knees, numerous aviation (only when the hour struck in Afghanistan. ... but there are no suitable airplanes) - this did not ruin the USSR ???
                  Quote: ccsr
                  the fact that the fleet has ruined us more than other types of aircraft, I know for sure.

                  Yes, I agree that costly projects were built for the fleet, but the fleet did not need them either! And what really needed was put into service at an hour in full spoon!
                  Quote: ccsr
                  the Khurs story is more familiar to me than you - I think so.

                  Are you talking about the admiral or about the CER ???
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 31 October 2018 14: 44
                    +1
                    Quote: Serg65
                    numerous aviation (only when the hour struck in Afghanistan .... but there are no suitable aircraft)
                    Sergey, well, there’s a clear excess. Everything was in order with aviation.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 1 November 2018 06: 47
                      +1
                      hi Welcome Alex!
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      there is a clear excess

                      We read the use of front-line aviation in the highlands of Afghanistan!
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 1 November 2018 07: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Serg65
                        We read the use of front-line aviation in the highlands of Afghanistan!
                        Yes, I read, and not a little. And I am familiar with the participants in the events (though quite a bit). There is such a thing - for such mountainous terrain as Afghanistan, no one had highly specialized and ideally trained aviation. Well, with about the same success, you can blame the sailors for the inability to fight in a 10-point storm. There were and still are specific problems for aviation in the mountains with location determination, navigation, and accurate targeting. This is not a vice of specific aircraft, this is physics. How can an altimeter or rangefinder show something effective when the terrain is crumpled like foil under the wing? The beam hit the nearest hill - range 5000, pulled the handle a little - the beam jumped to the next hill and the range was already 8000 in a second changed. What will the navigator catch his eye on, or how will the INS path be autonomously calculated to accurately reach the target with a constant wind shear in the mountains, ascending and descending currents, which also change from time of day? Even today, these problems have not been completely resolved, even taking into account the appearance of glonass and zhps (and then they did not exist). This is the main problem of aviation in the mountains, and not in the absence of some unique "mountain" maneuverable aircraft that should have been prepared in advance. And even taking into account these difficulties, to say that the necessary aviation "was not" ... Well, who then pulled the whole war, if not?
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 1 November 2018 10: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        These problems even today are not completely resolved, even taking into account the appearance of glonass and zhps (and then they were not there).

                        You describe everything absolutely correctly, and this is only part of the problems that had to be solved and for which we were not prepared. I studied a later report of American officers on the actions of their army in the mountains of Afghanistan (it is on the network), so even they could not really achieve stable radio communications during operations and suffered losses from the fact that in critical situations they could not even contact their stationary posts. And they had cases of death from "friendly fire" only because they could not determine exactly who and where was due to lack of communication.
                  2. ccsr
                    ccsr 31 October 2018 17: 59
                    0
                    Quote: Serg65
                    It is clear!

                    Nothing is clear to you - I had to think in a different coordinate system, where everything was decided by time and where they perfectly understood what the scenario of the future war would be. And what will be the consequences for our country and our armed forces.

                    Quote: Serg65
                    And tens of thousands of tanks of 3 types, an army inflated to an incredible size, 8 thousand nuclear warheads,

                    And this, too, was nonsense, which Ustinov could not eradicate.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    and when the Afghan cock in the seat pecked

                    Urine hit some of our politicians in the head, and the cock had nothing to do with it - there was nothing to climb in there, no matter how we were asked. At least our military leaders were against it, but they did not want to reckon with their opinion.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Are you talking about the admiral or about the CER ???

                    About him.
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 31 October 2018 14: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I don’t know who loved what more, but the fact that the fleet ruined us more than other types of aircraft, I know for sure.

                  Expenditures on the Soviet Navy in 1989 amounted to 12,08 billion rubles, of which 2993 million rubles for the purchase of ships and boats and 6531 million for technical equipment)
                  © reference "Soviet Navy. 1990-1991 ", Pavlov A.S.
                  At the same time, total military spending for the 1989 year amounted to 75,2 billion rubles (Goskomstat data).
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 31 October 2018 14: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    At the same time, total military spending for the 1989 year amounted to 75,2 billion rubles (Goskomstat data).

                    Here you need specifics. In addition to the Defense Ministry’s expenses, military expenses also include expenses of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB (FSB) of the Civil Defense and Emergencies Ministry and a number of other departments. Moreover, the share of MO in them is usually percent 50-70. We need an exact quote from the collection of statistics, whether these 75 billion are military expenditures, or is it specifically the expenditures of the Moscow Region. If the latter, then the share of the Navy does not look significant, but if the former, it will turn out just the opposite.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 31 October 2018 16: 14
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Here you need specifics. In addition to the Defense Ministry’s expenses, military expenses also include the expenses of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB (FSB) of the Civil Defense and Emergencies Ministry and a number of other departments. Moreover, the proportion of MO in them is usually 50-70 percent.

                      I'll have to see.
                      In any case, the entire Navy cost the USSR as 2 Afghanistan. smile
                      Vulture: Of Special Importance
                      The reference is addressed to M.S. Gorbachev, signed by N.I. Ryzhkov. 08.01.1988/XNUMX/XNUMX
                      About USSR expenses in Afghanistan
                      Total financial costs (million rubles):
                      1984 - 1578,5; 1985 - 2623,8; 1986 - 3650,4; 1987 - 5374,0
                      Of them:
                      Military assistance (million rubles):
                      1. The maintenance and support of Soviet troops:
                      1984 - 1196,8; 1985 - 2023,5; 1986 - 2341,6; 1987 - 3955,0
                      2. The maintenance and support of the army DRA:
                      1984 - 0; 1985 - 381,7; 1986 - 600,3; 1987 - 703,8
                      3. Expenses of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR: 1984 - 0; 1985 -; 1986 - 144,0; 1987 - 150,0
                      4. Expenses of the KGB of the USSR: 1984 - 0; 1985 - 0; 1986 - 8,0; 1987 - 11,0.
                      Economic assistance and other expenses:
                      1986 - 453,0; 1987 - 1258,0.
                      Average daily costs (million rubles):
                      1984 - 4,3; 1985 - 7,2; 1986 - 10,0; 1987 - 14,7.
                      This document is marked “Comrade. Gorbachev M.S. got acquainted. V. Boldin. 17.01.88/XNUMX/XNUMX
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 31 October 2018 15: 32
              +2
              Quote: ccsr
              But Ustinov really could not limit the appetites of this naval commander, especially since Brezhnev believed that our fleet should be no less than the American, although this is certainly stupid.

              Moreover, the most failed projects of the Navy ships were the initiative of Ustinov.
              It was Ustinov who imposed on the fleet the TAVKR pr.1143, which carried the same amount of missile launchers as multiples of the 1164, and were armed with "mast defense aircraft", inferior in all performance characteristics to the carrier-based aircraft of the "potential enemy".
              Moreover, 1143 actually killed the full-fledged AV pr. 1160 and 1153, which the Navy needed both for the defense of the bases and launch areas of SSBNs, and for ensuring the withdrawal of SSNS into the Atlantic. But the work of the SSNN in the Atlantic was needed to fulfill the main task assigned to the fleet by the army - to interrupt the Atlantic communications. That is, with one hand the "boots" demanded help from the fleet, and with the other they cut the capabilities of the fleet.
              And how dashingly Ustinov and Amelko walked through 1143.5 - the inferiority of "Kuznetsov", associated with the absence of a catapult and an AWACS aircraft on the ship, is on their conscience. As well as the termination of work on catapults in general.
              Quote: ccsr
              By the way, here’s an example from today's life - someone can reasonably explain why our program for creating aircraft carriers is being discussed and why we still haven’t abandoned them.

              Because we do not know how to get sea land from the bottom to build an airfield on it.
              Tactical considerations require us to build defense in the same North as follows. that its northern flank, in any case, is 600 km from the nearest land. And without an aircraft carrier, it is simply impossible to ensure a timely approach of reserves to the on-duty IA forces providing air defense of our ship groups on the northern flank of this defense.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 31 October 2018 18: 55
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Moreover, the most failed projects of the Navy ships were the initiative of Ustinov.

                I doubt that Gorshkov could not refuse them, hiding behind the report of his specific research institute and the conclusion of his NTK.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                Moreover, 1143 actually killed the full-fledged AB pr. 1160 and 1153, which were needed by the Navy both for the defense of bases and launch areas of the SSBNs, and for ensuring the withdrawal of ICAPL to the Atlantic.

                Do you seriously believe that the third world would repeat the scenario of the second world? What else is the defense of the missile launch area, if they had gone to this area for several days, and our opponent would have immediately determined our plan to deliver a preemptive strike.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                That is, with one hand the "boots" demanded help from the fleet, and with the other they cut the capabilities of the fleet.

                "Boots" understood that our entire surface fleet would be destroyed in the first half hour of the war, and only one hope for a retaliatory launch of our submarine missile carriers on duty, who could erase America into nuclear dust, warmed the souls of those who understood what would actually happen. So, by and large, naval exclusivity is only the fruit of former services to the Republic of Ingushetia and the post-war USSR of the 40-50s, because in reality our surface fleet does not pose any real threat to the United States.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                And without an aircraft carrier, it is simply impossible to ensure a timely approach of reserves to the on-duty IA forces providing air defense of our ship groups on the northern flank of this defense.

                You are telling all this from the point of view of the views of the 70-80s, when our doctrine was different. Now, with the advent of relatively cheap air defense systems, even with ballistic heads, we don’t need any aircraft carriers - they are too big a target, and hemorrhoids with them are higher than the roof, at least from the point of view of accident flights from them.
                Well, if someone wants to demonstrate them to the world as our steepness, then we can say that the last lesson did not go in vain and the rake is waiting for you ...
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 31 October 2018 19: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I doubt that Gorshkov could not refuse them, hiding behind the report of his specific research institute and the conclusion of his NTK.

                  Gorshkov had no choice - either 1143 or nothing. In addition, they tried to abandon the concept of 1143 twice - but each time Ustinov, with a rigid hand, drove the sailors into the Procrustean bed of the TAVKR with SKVVP. He and "Kuznetsova" at first assigned only his beloved Yaks to the air group - but then MiG and Su were in advance, providing their machines with the possibility of taking off from a springboard.
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Do you seriously believe that the third world would repeat the scenario of the second world?

                  Well, the boots believed in that. smile Otherwise, why did they order so many tanks and other BTT, which was absolutely unnecessary when solving everything and everything by the Strategic Missile Forces.
                  Quote: ccsr
                  You are telling all this from the point of view of the views of the 70-80s, when our doctrine was different. Now, with the advent of relatively cheap air defense systems, even with ballistic heads, we don’t need any aircraft carriers - they are too big a target, and hemorrhoids with them are higher than the roof, at least from the point of view of accident flights from them.

                  Try to solve the simplest task with the help of modern domestic air defense systems - the defeat of an aircraft traveling at extremely low altitude within a radius of 40 km from the air defense system. Be a little surprised.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 1 November 2018 10: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Gorshkov had no choice - either 1143 or nothing. In addition, they tried to abandon the concept of 1143 twice - but each time Ustinov, with a rigid hand, drove the sailors into the Procrustean bed of the TAVKR with SKVVP. He and "Kuznetsova" at first assigned only his beloved Yaks to the air group - but then MiG and Su were in advance, providing their machines with the possibility of taking off from a springboard.

                    I do not know the intricacies of intraspecific struggle in the Navy and its industry enterprises in the military-industrial complex, but I had previously expressed the idea that the appointment of D.F. Ustinov to the post of Defense Ministry was a mistake. Well, the fact that Gorshkov was even a member of Brezhnev was known for a long time, that is why he was quite independent and he was considered in the Politburo with his opinion.

                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Well, the boots believed in that. Otherwise, why did they order so many tanks and other BTT, which was absolutely unnecessary when solving everything and everything by the Strategic Missile Forces.

                    Firstly, not all "boots" believed in this, because many understood the absurdity of building up a ground grouping, and secondly, our political leaders were carried away by peace initiatives and convinced the whole world that we can fight without nuclear weapons. However, I do not deny that many of our military leaders did not understand how the country gets all this, and career growth played an important role in their planning, so I don’t share their guilt by type of armed forces - everyone was good.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Try to solve the simplest task with the help of modern domestic air defense systems - the defeat of an aircraft traveling at extremely low altitude within a radius of 40 km from the air defense system. Be a little surprised.

                    You have invented this task for Moscow and St. Petersburg, or for any other large city in Russia - please tell us your vision of the WHOLE situation when some unknown plane with unknown weapons will appear at our facilities. I will not discuss abstract situations - only specific data on such a flight, how you imagine it all and what goal is set by the one who plans it. I am asking not out of simple curiosity, but based on a REAL case with the twin towers, when a completely different approach to terrorist attacks was demonstrated.
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 1 November 2018 07: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Do you seriously believe that the third world would repeat the scenario of the second world?

                  Sometimes it seems to me that you have a mediocre attitude to GS! Have 4,5 million army, tens of thousands of tanks and at the same time think that everything will be decided by nuclear weapons? In that case, why was the Arbat VO so bloated?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I had to think in a different coordinate system, where everything was decided by time and where they perfectly understood what the scenario of the future war would be.

                  Cool you thought there! The General Staff along with Ustinov believed that all the theater of the world in the world have a forest-steppe region? How did you think to fight Turkey, even if Afghanistan became a difficult task for you?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  we don’t need any aircraft carriers — a too big target, and hemorrhoids with them are higher than the roof, at least from the point of view of accident rates from them.

                  Are you definitely a military man?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  the fruit of former merits to RI and of the post-war USSR of the 40-50's,

                  What is the merit of the fleet in the 50's?
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 1 November 2018 10: 43
                    0
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Sometimes it seems to me that you have a mediocre attitude to GS!

                    Think what you want, but it would be better if you can argue with me reasonably. And other authors of the discussion will decide for themselves who is right and who left to chat like that.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Have 4,5 million army, tens of thousands of tanks and at the same time think that everything will be decided by nuclear weapons?

                    When I was 4 million, as far as I remember. But the point is not that it is precisely thanks to nuclear weapons that we, even now with our modest economy and population of the country, are half that of the USSR, can influence the politics of the whole world and put everyone in a certain position and be independent. Therefore, nuclear weapons are the only tool that allows you to do this, and from this we must draw conclusions, and not bother with thoughts, whether we apply it or not. By the way, what prevented us even then from using tactical or portable nuclear weapons of limited power after Hiroshima - can you enlighten?

                    Quote: Serg65
                    The General Staff along with Ustinov believed that all the theater of the world in the world have a forest-steppe region?

                    There is no joke in this - this is exactly what they thought, even the VHF range of CB radio stations was chosen based on the conditions of wave propagation in this particular band. But you went too far — we were not going to fight with our army all over the world, but only in Europe and on our borders, including the Far East, where there was a forest-steppe region.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    How did you think to fight Turkey, even if Afghanistan became a difficult task for you?

                    Who told you that we were going to fight with Turkey, and not with the United States and China? And Afghanistan was a disaster for the Americans too - so we have nothing to sprinkle ashes on our heads.

                    Quote: Serg65
                    What is the merit of the fleet in the 50's?

                    Our submarine fleet was then able to suddenly attack US territory with nuclear weapons.
  9. uskrabut
    uskrabut 30 October 2018 12: 04
    +2
    Distinguished by “Stalinist” demands on people, the higher the post, the greater the responsibility.

    Therefore, the current "elite" hates everything associated with the name of Stalin. Today the minister is a political figure, there is no demand from such people and, accordingly, there are no results either. If the finance minister claims that his subordinate tax office cannot collect taxes on a progressive scale! And everyone is like that, with rare exceptions (in the thoughts of only Shoigu and Lavrov).
  10. midshipman
    midshipman 30 October 2018 12: 58
    +7
    There are few specialists left who met with D.F. Ustinov. And I met. In the penultimate photograph, the leaders of our state. I personally met and worked with Kutakhov P.S. A Ustinov D.F. personally at the request of Marshal E.Ya. Savitsky called me to report to himself (the office was on the second floor). I reported the state of affairs. I received congratulations later from my Minister.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 31 October 2018 23: 44
      -3
      Pre-conscription root-crop measures began, and I, and I.
  11. Altona
    Altona 30 October 2018 14: 13
    -4
    I watched Andrey Fursov's lectures on Youtube. In them, he concludes that 4 people were involved in the collapse of the USSR. Namely: Gromyko, Ustinov, Andropov and Suslov.

    See also his lectures on the Brezhnev era.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 30 October 2018 14: 49
      0
      Quote: Altona
      that 4 people were involved in the collapse of the USSR.

      Trotskyists or what? Ah, then everything in the comments is grub, but grub.
      the devil - the boss on Earth, the prince of this world.
      1. Altona
        Altona 30 October 2018 16: 35
        +1
        Quote: bober1982
        Trotskyists or what? Ah, then everything in the comments is grub, but grub.

        ----------------------
        Khrushchev as a forerunner who discredited the Stalinist idea and dumped the repression that the old cadres did on Stalin. And Khrushchev cleaned up his sins in the archives.
        PS In general, look at the lecture, he talks interestingly. I do not agree with him on everything, but he tells me very interestingly.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 30 October 2018 20: 07
      +2
      Quote: Altona
      I watched Andrey Fursov's lectures on Youtube. In them, he concludes that 4 people were involved in the collapse of the USSR. Namely: Gromyko, Ustinov, Andropov and Suslov.

      See also his lectures on the Brezhnev era.

      Khrushchov is to blame for the collapse of the social economy. Further - the domino principle, where the participants no longer influence anything. To prevent the collapse of the Union, in fact, a small revolution was required. And the players just chose the option of visible stability. Andropov, seeing that the Union was falling apart, did not think of anything better how to look for a survival option. Gaidar and others are his brainchildren. After Stalin, not a single theoretician of socialism remained. Even the subject of the Economics of Socialism in my VVUZ was secret - all textbooks and notebooks only through the "secret". And this is in the days of socialism! This makes no sense.
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 31 October 2018 23: 46
        -2
        Yes, Nikita completely undermined the agricultural sector, and forced him to spend billions of dollars on grain purchases in the United States on favorable terms for the United States, even when this was not required.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 1 November 2018 10: 47
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        ... Even the subject of the Economics of Socialism in my VVUZ was secret - all textbooks and notebooks only through "secret".

        What kind of university is this? I can’t even believe that the works of the founders of Marxism were outlined in the considered notebooks ...
  12. Skhidnyak
    Skhidnyak 30 October 2018 18: 35
    +2
    Well, for people. All of them are wrong. Oh ...
    Schaub was not there, but the contribution that he made to the greatness of the USSR, Power, Empire, cannot be taken away.
  13. iouris
    iouris 31 October 2018 01: 37
    +1
    By the way, these two fighters in the photo, in front of the entire leadership, landed on the same parachute. 10000 people were thrown out with equipment. It was something with something. And four years after these exercises began ... ("Who has not rebuilt yet ?!")
  14. iury.vorgul
    iury.vorgul 31 October 2018 05: 38
    0
    The Dembelsky order of September 1984, by which I was demobilized, was the last demobilization order, which was signed by Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov. Bright memory to him!
  15. ccsr
    ccsr 31 October 2018 18: 31
    +1
    Quote: Alexey RA
    reference book “Soviet Navy. 1990-1991 ", Pavlov A.S.

    Unfortunately, the handbook does not provide an understanding of how the true costs of maintaining the type of aircraft were formed and what funds were spent on research and development. But this is not even the point, but the fact that there is a concept as the cost of manufacturing and keeping a kiloton thrown at the enemy, and the Navy was losing all forms of this indicator. Although we need a submarine fleet desperately now, and it is impossible to reduce it. So it is necessary to moderate the appetites of the surface fleet, if we do not want to repeat the fate of the USSR.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 31 October 2018 23: 47
      -2
      The AMF turned out to be unbalanced. The coastal infrastructure in the broadest sense is wretched. The shortcomings of the potato brainchild drag the remains of the fleet to the bottom and now.
  16. colotun
    colotun 7 November 2018 23: 35
    0
    The main merit of Dmitry Ustinov is that under him the USSR caught up with and surpassed America in strategic nuclear forces = strategic nuclear forces. For reference, during the Cuban missile crisis, the USA's superiority over the USSR in the strategic nuclear forces was 1 to 10 in favor of the USA = such an advantage over the enemy according to the theory of "first strike in a nuclear war" makes it possible to start and win a nuclear war.
  17. tank64rus
    tank64rus 8 November 2018 18: 22
    0
    Eternal Memory to the Stalin Narcotic and our Minister of War. How lacking such people are now.
  18. VeteranVSSSR
    VeteranVSSSR 30 November 2018 08: 53
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    Quote: Serg65
    I do not argue, he did not serve in the General Staff. I usually judge people according to their affairs. Here you are, as a specialist in the General Staff, answer .... how can I become a marshal from Colonel General in 5 years?

    Silently - clever people are immediately evident from their deeds, which is why Akhromeev, becoming an NGS, got what he deserved.

    Quote: Serg65
    Then the question is natural ..... why the units allocated for input were completed according to the principle "God forbid, that I don't like", why these units included "partisans", why the routes of movement of the military columns were not well thought out, why ... why why why???

    Because in our doctrines and, accordingly, in our plans for combat training, it was nowhere prescribed that the SA would perform police functions in a foreign country with a very complex theater of operations. Hence, many errors that are characteristic of the initial period. As for the "partisans" and other local contingent, this is primarily due to the mentality of the peoples of that region, which is why they were called up in the first place.
    Quote: Serg65
    And the most important question .... why was Ogarkov worse than Akhromeev, than Nikolai Vasilievich did not like Ustinov ??

    I can recommend Kikeshev's book "Get Up and Go" - it describes in detail everything that happened then from the words of another Soviet military leader.

    Leonid Parfyonov (reserve stock, birthplace, pos, Mary) and what local mentality can a tank lieutenant have ?, but they reached the border with Pakistan and everything was fine ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 30 November 2018 13: 28
      0
      Quote: VeteranVSSSR
      Leonid Parfyonov (reserve stock, birthplace, pos. Mary) and what local mentality can a tank lieutenant have ?,

      The question dealt with those ascribed persons who lived in Central Asia and knew better the local population in terms of understanding their mentality and customs of Muslims. After all, they later came to a Muslim country, and there it was easier for them to navigate the local population than those who lived in areas of the USSR where the Slavic population predominated.
      Quote: VeteranVSSSR
      but they reached the border with Pakistan and everything was fine ...

      Judging by the fact that we suffered losses and were eventually forced to leave, not everything was normal there initially.
      1. VeteranVSSSR
        VeteranVSSSR 30 November 2018 14: 09
        0
        I am talking about December79 March / April 80, when the partisans were replaced by regular troops.
        Sorry busy, add later ...