Military Review

Su-57 surpassed the afterburner F-35? India, it's time to return to the project

147
The US continues to put pressure on New Delhi, stating that the Indian deal with Russia to acquire C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems will not remain without CAATSA’s sanctioned package. Recall that CAATSA is an American whip, which Washington threatens to beat anyone who intends to cooperate with Russia in the military-technical sphere. While they are speculating on specific measures of influence on India, Moscow could well use time and opportunities to its own advantage.


A few months ago in India they said that they were abandoning the joint project with Russia of the 5 generation fighter FGFA.



At the same time, claims were “rolled out” by the whole car: from the discrepancy between the level of stealth technology desired by India and the use of the “wrong” engine. The fact that the plane was at the stage of creation at the time of the Indian demarche (in fact, it is still on that day) was not embarrassing to anyone in the Indian Air Force. It was necessary to “quickly, cheaply, all at once”, plus also with the transfer of basic technologies.

It should be noted that as soon as India left the joint project, it was made clear in the media of this state that the command of the Air Force made a blunder. After all, in fact, the only promising project for the country was “hacked down”. And after giving up the FGFA (Su-57), India was left face to face with its sworn geopolitical friend - China. And that fifth generation aircraft already exist. These are the Chengdu J-20 multipurpose fighter aircraft.

When the Chinese fighters began to plow the air spaces of the Middle Kingdom, India began a sad dance in the direction of the United States: there was talk that we would have to look closely to the American F-35. They danced before signing the contract for C-400.

Now it becomes clear that India will not receive the F-35 by virtue of the aforementioned CAATSA package, and she herself is frankly not eager to receive such a receipt for a number of reasons. The first reason is the need for huge investments in changing infrastructure up to purchases from the same USA aviation refuelers. The second reason - the United States initially made it clear that they do not intend to share technologies with countries that were not in the F-35 project. The third reason is the cost not only of purchases, but also of subsequent upgrades, without which India will hypothetically be left with super-expensive hardware.

By now, tests of the Su-57 with the engine of the second stage have already begun in Russia. The engine has been significantly increased due to the newest technologies being implemented. Thus, the afterburner "30 products" brought to the value of 18 tons (and according to the latest data, and at all to 19,5). So, 19,5 tons - above the afterburner thrust of F-35 engines. In comparison with 15 tons of the engine of the first stage, this is a real breakthrough. The gas temperature in front of the turbine reaches 1830 degrees Celsius.

Based on the performance of the latest engine, we can talk about increasing the maneuverability of the Russian fighter. And India is hardly aware of this today.

In this case, before New Delhi, it is necessary to expand specific maps of the prospects for the Air Force of this country in two cases. The first is when she still arranges Bollywood with the exit from a joint project, the second is when she returns to full-fledged joint work.

To lose the chance to convince the Indian partners that they got excited some time ago is definitely not possible. This is not only additional investment, but also the opportunity to click on the nose of overseas competitors in the arms market, accustomed to the practice of intimidation.
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  1. kventinasd
    kventinasd 21 October 2018 15: 31
    +48
    May the Indians fly on their holy cows. And then give them the technology.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 21 October 2018 15: 39
      +48
      Apparently, India has no options, after such a demarche .. you need to raise the price .. that you would think better next time ..
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 21 October 2018 15: 44
        +17
        Quote: Svarog
        Apparently, India has no options, after such a demarche .. you need to raise the price .. that you would think better next time ..

        And it will be raised ... moreover, if the Indians wanted a spark, then now they will not see it for the next 10 years, respectively, they will try to agree on a single SU-57. And then there are big questions about how much rubyroid is in Odessa today and whether they want to In the future, let 57 go for export, before it appeared in the production version in our VKS.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 21 October 2018 15: 49
          +11
          Quote: NEXUS
          will they even want to start exporting the 57th in the near future, before it appeared in the production version in our VKS.

          Well, I just have no doubt about that .. and I need export .. Money needs to be earned .. but the export option should be inferior, of course ..
          1. Sergey39
            Sergey39 21 October 2018 16: 30
            -1
            Indos will also return to the project, where to go
            1. Arh
              Arh 21 October 2018 16: 46
              -6
              Russia and India together let them create, India is our good ally !!!
              1. reminin
                reminin 22 October 2018 08: 28
                0
                I doubt something about a "good ally." As soon as the wind changes, all technologies will fly away with this wind. There are examples of a sharp change in attitudes. Corruption is still too strong in India. The country's leadership is not predictable.
                Suffice it to recall the termination of contracts for the construction of submarines that led to the accident, Disruption of the tender for the supply of small arms. Attempts to purchase the F-35 (without kickbacks, this option would not even have been considered).
              2. Fast_mutant
                Fast_mutant 23 October 2018 01: 32
                0
                No India is an ally. Like China. Give everything for free!
            2. dauria
              dauria 21 October 2018 23: 05
              +2
              where do they go

              Snuggle up to the USA. Moreover, the common enemy is China.
      2. Turist1996
        Turist1996 21 October 2018 18: 06
        +12
        Exactly! With the wording - "For nefig!"
        We also respect the cows!
        These ancestors of gypsies with their bargainer have already been pulled up !!
    2. Ugolek
      Ugolek 21 October 2018 15: 47
      +19
      And to eat a fish and to sit on a bump in this raging world will not work. Seriously eaten, India has no chance besides this FGFA for one simple reason, to show off rolls only with Russia, with Western comrades there. But if Russia is offended and leaves, causing harm to itself and India, then the Indians will be very bad. Hindus rebuilding their entire defense industry to a new strategic partner will lose 10-15 years, and China over the years will already acquire hypersound, while the Indians have the 2nd F-35 squadron. Their nonsense is visible in the completely illogical amount of 36 Rafale purchased.
      1. Don
        Don 21 October 2018 18: 40
        -2
        Quote: Ugolek
        But if Russia is offended and leaves, causing harm to itself and India, then the Indians will be very bad.

        How old are you? Big leaders are not guided by such childish logic. Leaders must be guided by the interests of the country
        Quote: Ugolek
        Their nonsense is visible in the completely illogical amount of purchased 36 Rafaley.

        Only an unwise person can think like that. In big politics, sometimes you have to take obscure steps. Bought because it was necessary. Ours, too, when the Mistral bought a howl stood all over the country.
        Quote: Ugolek
        show off rolls only with Russia, with western comrades no.

        I wonder why this happens? Maybe because, besides India, we no longer have such a large buyer of weapons, because Is China Slowly Moving to Release Its Arms?
        1. Serg koma
          Serg koma 22 October 2018 09: 22
          +1
          Quote: Donskoy
          Maybe because, besides India, we no longer have such a large buyer of weapons, because Is China Slowly Moving to Release Its Arms?

          Minus for the question ??? am
          "Everything was confused in the Oblonskys' house. The wife found out that her husband was in connection with the French governess who was in their house ...."
          - I hope VO does not become like Oblonsky’s house.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2018 16: 21
      +7
      Quote: kventinasd
      May the Indians fly on their holy cows. And then give them the technology.

      It certainly is ... yes, but why push the state away from itself, with a population of about a billion people, and at the same time friendly to us? At the same time, with one of the most emerging markets, and ambitions ...
      Will you be calmer from the fact that the Indians will start to buy the Patriots and F-35?
      Yes, and export money will not hurt us at all. At the same time, we need to optimize the price of the SU-57, and without a good series we will be doing this for a very long time ... today, our MO cannot provide the purchase of the SU-57 in a good series, but we need this machine. Therefore, exporting it will greatly simplify much for us in the SU-57 project. Another question is that now, if the Indians return to us, the contract will be on our terms and I doubt very much that the Indians will give a hint about the spark. They need a modern fighter today, and not through 10 -15 years, therefore, I think it will be a question of purchasing a single-seat option and of course with truncated performance characteristics and arsenal.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 21 October 2018 21: 48
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        export money doesn’t hurt us at all.

        Andrew, hello! hi
        Before talking about export tugriks, it would not hurt to recall the means for launching the production of the second stage dvig, updating the software and on-board electronics, solving stealth problems in different wavelength ranges R / L ... In short, to bring to mind the prototype SU- 57 to normal drill machine. And for this MONEY is needed! And very large. I think Hindu software development would not be in the way. The Brahmins in this area are very advanced ... Again, through India, we could get the microelectronics we need ...
        Quote: NEXUS
        I think we will talk about the purchase of a single-seat option and of course with a truncated performance characteristics and arsenal.
        But this is exactly the problem. Hindus clearly order what they need. What do they pay money for! Sometimes they require performance characteristics, which are not included in our product either! Therefore, we had to go to the trick and "at the request of the customer" put on the equipment products of foreign production. Then on the sly to copy them and bring your own to mind. (French IR stations, for example ...) Therefore, the deal, if it goes through, will be perceived to mutual satisfaction by both parties. (Except for China and his ward Pakistan, I suppose ...)
        IMHO.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2018 21: 56
          -1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Hindus clearly order what they need.

          Hello Sasha hi
          There will be no Indians or production on their territory. That’s exactly what they want. But ... we don’t need it. And therefore, I think they won’t get anything done, how to buy a finished single product.
      2. yehat
        yehat 22 October 2018 15: 21
        -2
        It certainly is ... yes, but why push the state away from itself, with a population of about a billion people, and at the same time friendly to us? At the same time, with one of the most emerging markets, and ambitions ...

        1. they still do not have a billion, just as there is none in China.
        2. Friendly? Hindus see Russians as cash cows, this is where friendliness ends.
        3. The market of India and the truth is developing. But if it develops, something will not be enough for someone and there will be a war. Therefore, the Indian market will develop another 100-500 years.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 22 October 2018 15: 26
          0
          Quote: yehat
          1. they still do not have a billion, just as there is none in China.

          The population of India, as of May 2016, is 1,3 billion people


          The population of the People's Republic of China is estimated at 2017 for about 1,4 billion people
          Somehow, scientists proved that if such dynamics continue to persist, then after 20 years, the Indians will bypass China in terms of population.
          Quote: yehat
          2. Friendly? Hindus see Russians as cash cows, this is where friendliness ends.

          And I'm sorry, did we ever once fought with India?
          Quote: yehat
          3. The Indian market is really developing. But if it develops, something will not be enough for someone and there will be a war.

          What kind of nonsense?
          1. yehat
            yehat 22 October 2018 15: 29
            0
            China has developed about 15% of its market. As a result, he is already forced to vacuum all the resources of the region, which lie poorly. If India manages to "develop" 50% of its market, the question will arise in the region point-blank - who will be the first to start a civil war? there are simply no resources for such consumption.
          2. goose
            goose 23 October 2018 11: 30
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            The population of India, as of May 2016, is 1,3 billion people

            According to some reports, the population of India is already about 1,6 billion people, because the last large-scale census was conducted a long time ago, and some castes provided inaccurate information. Those. already at least comparable to China. But it is entirely possible that this estimate is incorrect.
            1. yehat
              yehat 24 October 2018 11: 15
              0
              in India, as in China, there are no normal statistics. In India, a lot of double or dead souls are taken into account - this is necessary for local communities in order to knock out a larger budget. In China, it’s different - there are decent records in densely populated areas, but there are no reliable statistics on the outskirts, Tibet, Shinjiang. It is beneficial for the government to overestimate the real number. And in fact, the Chinese use statistics to regulate the market. The population of China today is approximately equal to the Chinese + migrant workers, which are quite numerous in China. Some Vietnamese about 5 million.
        2. Tarhan
          Tarhan 24 October 2018 06: 34
          -1
          Friendly? Hindus see Russians as cash cows, this is where friendliness ends.

          Hindus, like everyone else in this world, consider their benefits and disadvantages, consider their income and expenses. And to think that the Hindus specifically consider the Russians to be dairy cows, this is the height of Urashism manifested in self-humiliation.
      3. Fast_mutant
        Fast_mutant 23 October 2018 01: 38
        0
        Because give them a device with x2 engines. And they don’t take it with the old ones. And it makes sense to sell only with the old first stage.
    4. sanja.grw
      sanja.grw 21 October 2018 17: 12
      0
      Let the Indians fly on their holy cows

      They have vimana
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 21 October 2018 17: 56
        +1
        Su-57 surpassed the F-35 in afterburner traction
        and in quantity when surpasses ??? not in this life ... we still have SU-27.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 21 October 2018 19: 24
        0
        It is worth noting that none of the vimanas or other devices have a key image.
    5. Sandor Clegane
      Sandor Clegane 21 October 2018 18: 40
      -1
      Quote: kventinasd
      Let the Indians

      let be!!
    6. milton
      milton 21 October 2018 21: 11
      0
      Quote: kventinasd
      May the Indians fly on their holy cows. And then give them the technology.

      Let the vimans recreate, they even have blueprints and adopt the technology of the ancients laughing
  2. Observer2014
    Observer2014 21 October 2018 15: 36
    +2
    Russia should issue an advertisement for the sale of a 5O megaton charge. A lard for a megaton. And the money would be mowed. At a time. And golovnyakov in the form of joint development. Yes, with whom?! Hindus laughing There wouldn’t be a stationary charge on the border with Pakistan and also with China. And these stealth were wound on a wreath of flowers repeat laughing
    1. faridg7
      faridg7 21 October 2018 15: 45
      +11
      Yeah, and also free express delivery to the acquirer on its own (directly from the mine)
      1. Sergey39
        Sergey39 21 October 2018 18: 21
        0
        Free shipping type "Buy brick"
    2. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 21 October 2018 16: 25
      +5
      Quote: Observer2014
      Russia should issue an advertisement for the sale of a 5O megaton charge. A lard for a megaton. And the money would be mowed. At a time. And golovnyakov in the form of joint development. Yes, with whom?! Hindus laughing There wouldn’t be a stationary charge on the border with Pakistan and also with China. And these stealth were wound on a wreath of flowers repeat laughing

      50 megatons is niochem, 100km zone will be hit ... niochem
      1. Black sniper
        Black sniper 21 October 2018 17: 17
        +2
        Well, you do not like 50 megatons, let them sell 200, but also for a lard for a megaton. laughing
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 21 October 2018 17: 37
          +1
          Quote: Black Sniper
          Well, you do not like 50 megatons, let them sell 200, but also for a lard for a megaton. laughing

          And 200, it’s already necessary to make a housing from uranium for booster amplification, and this is a strong radioactive pollution, how will the Indians cows graze?
  3. NEXUS
    NEXUS 21 October 2018 15: 38
    +13
    It is important to bring the SU-57 to the series by any means, and there the price is already optimized, and the technology of faster production will be developed. Well, the export backlog of this project is also huge, even in truncated performance characteristics.
    But, as I said earlier, it is necessary to consider the SU-57 project not only as an 5 MFI, but also a testing ground for developing new technologies, testing the radar, arsenal, etc. ... everything in the compartment will give life not only to this project, but also the push of our entire combat aircraft in the compartment.
    1. Sandor Clegane
      Sandor Clegane 21 October 2018 18: 41
      +1
      Quote: NEXUS
      It is important by any means to bring the SU-57 to a series, and there the price is already optimized, and the technology of faster production will be developed

      How is it optimized and it will work out ??
      1. helmi8
        helmi8 21 October 2018 21: 57
        0
        Quote: Sandor Clegane
        How is it optimized and it will work out ??

        Yes, everything is simple ... The first planes are assembled by hand. It is long and expensive. With assembly experience, technological operations are being developed with a smooth transition of the assembly to the conveyor. As a result, assembly time is reduced, manual labor is less, cost is reduced. smile
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 22 October 2018 01: 27
          0
          Quote: helmi8
          Yes, everything is simple ... The first planes are assembled by hand. It is long and expensive. With assembly experience, technological operations are being developed with a smooth transition of the assembly to the conveyor. As a result, assembly time is reduced, manual labor is less, cost is reduced.

          Oh, hard to explain .... wassat The example of the F-35 is the same ... how much were the first cars? Now what is the price? That's the optimization of prices and the development of production technologies.
        2. Sandor Clegane
          Sandor Clegane 22 October 2018 08: 20
          +1
          Quote: helmi8
          With assembly experience, technological operations are being developed with a smooth transition of the assembly to the conveyor.

          I'm sorry, but you never worked on a conveyor belt ...... and it yourself, in principle, cannot happen from manual assembly to a motorbike hi
    2. Runoway
      Runoway 22 October 2018 01: 54
      -1
      What is the su-57 platform, better than the su-35 platform for radar testing ??
  4. Kasym
    Kasym 21 October 2018 15: 45
    +5
    The engine F-135-PW-100 / 400 with F-35 has the same thrust on the afterburner in 19,5 .. The engine F-135-PW-600 18,6 ..
    I am glad that there is no lag. hi
    1. Dr.KonradMorgen
      Dr.KonradMorgen 21 October 2018 15: 55
      +13
      Actually - there is a lag. And rather big. It is enough to compare: how many engines were produced for the F-35 and how many - for the Su-57 ...
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2018 16: 08
      +1
      Quote: Kasym
      The engine F-135-PW-100 / 400 with F-35 has the same thrust on the afterburner in 19,5 .. The engine F-135-PW-600 18,6 ..
      I am glad that there is no lag. hi

      There is ... we do not have a SERIAL SU-57 yet ... and the 30 product is only being tested and brought up.
    3. Vinnibuh
      Vinnibuh 21 October 2018 18: 47
      +4
      What are you like children? Real TTX neither Americans nor ours publish. Nude if only semi-advertising. This is not an Auchan lawn mower.)
  5. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 21 October 2018 15: 49
    +3
    The Russian Federation will not go anywhere and will work together with the Indians, then there is no money. It's like a matter of shooting or not shooting from an unloaded gun. Another thing is that the Indians need to bend over for their stupidity so that clicking on the nose of their overseas partners was as painful for the fingers as for the nose, but you just need to cut a price tag for them a little less than for F35 (including infrastructure) and they will not be friends anywhere us. Hindus must be punished, but at the same time remain friends with them.
  6. BAI
    BAI 21 October 2018 15: 56
    +3
    With the Su-57 and F-35, everything is clear. And where and why did the results of the week disappear?
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 21 October 2018 16: 39
      -3
      By the way, also worried. But this is definitely not the handiwork of the Order.
      1. Sandor Clegane
        Sandor Clegane 21 October 2018 18: 42
        +3
        Quote: sabakina
        By the way, also worried. But this is definitely not the handiwork of the Order.

        Vyacheslav Sobakina ..... you posted what? .... and what ?? ... Takvemoda like Lenin will not die ..... enjoy being managed to become a marshal and your MINUS is heavier than mine ....
  7. spektr9
    spektr9 21 October 2018 16: 03
    +1
    I hope the Indians take it, without their money I am afraid to limit ourselves to 10 prototypes and 2 serial copies
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 22 October 2018 01: 35
      -1
      Quote: spektr9
      I hope the Indians take it, without their money I am afraid to limit ourselves to 10 prototypes and 2 serial copies

      We will not limit ourselves, but just have to pull the series ourselves. That is longer, more painful and with a big loss of time for us.
      We needed SU-57 yesterday. The technologies incorporated in it and the solutions will be used to modernize the existing SU-35 and SU-30 / 34. At the same time, I’m sure that something will already go into the creation of the TU-160M2.
      The same 30 product is not a modernization of an existing engine, but a completely new product with enormous modernization potential.
      With or without Indians, we will have to pull out this project ... the only question is time and money.
  8. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 21 October 2018 16: 06
    +4
    Now it becomes clear that India will not receive the F-35 due to the CAATSA package
    On the contrary, the Americans are beginning to push for a big deal with the Indians in order to balance the parity between the Chinese in the region. The package includes an aircraft carrier with a wing, naval scouts and "nasty hunters" Boeing. then a counterbalance to the Chinese force is built. This all fits into the logic of American policy in the region, when the Chinese need to resist by any means - otherwise China will swallow everything and not choke. However, this does not negate the possibility of a deal between the United States and its main trading partner China on the division of influence in the world. And this already affects the security of the Russian Federation - the Far Eastern border and the unstable regimes of the former Soviet Central Asia.
  9. boriz
    boriz 21 October 2018 16: 15
    -3
    When will they follow the headlines? A two-engine aircraft outperformed one-engine aircraft. Peremoga!
    1. pashundra
      pashundra 21 October 2018 16: 20
      +10
      Well, 19500 is the thrust of one engine, then you need to look at the thrust-weight ratio to compare them.
      1. boriz
        boriz 21 October 2018 16: 24
        0
        Well, you need to write not about planes, but about engines.
      2. sabakina
        sabakina 21 October 2018 16: 42
        -2
        All the same, I wonder where the Yankees get such powerful engines from. Zone 51?
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 21 October 2018 21: 51
          +1
          Out of a desire to develop their aviation.
      3. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 21 October 2018 16: 42
        +2
        Quote: pashundra
        Well, 19500 is the thrust of one engine, then you need to look at the thrust-weight ratio to compare them.

        And why is it compared with 35 and not 22?
      4. NEXUS
        NEXUS 21 October 2018 16: 43
        +1
        Quote: pashundra
        Well, 19500 is the thrust of one engine, then you need to look at the thrust-weight ratio to compare them.

        In general, SU-57 and F-35 are incorrect to compare from the word at all. Quite different tasks. The lizard was created to confront our SU-27, and SU-35С and SU-57 to resist the lizard.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 21 October 2018 21: 50
          +1
          Exactly. The T-50 is a mock-up for testing, 30 years old. The F-35 is a production aircraft. The countries with their developed industry, scientists, qualified engineers and workers work on it. And not the remnants of the once powerful aviation industry.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 22 October 2018 01: 46
            +2
            Quote: gunnerminer
            Exactly. T-50 test layout, years on 30

            I don’t understand, are you sculpting this in all branches from illiteracy, or is it a stupid task to make the fan stupid a lot?
            F-22, in essence, is also a model for testing the technologies that were used in the construction of the same B-2 Spirit. Technologies of small-scale F-117, F-22, B-1 and even prototypes of the F-23 type are all models for testing and technology development, which now, the mattresses are trying to put on stream in the F-35 in a large series.
            Quote: gunnerminer
            Over which countries with their developed industry, scientists, qualified engineers and workers are working.

            So what? The USSR alone created better fighters than the West. And there were qualified designers, designers, engineers ... and what more? Due to the influx of capital, the F-35 went into a faster series, but the technology did not keep up with it.
            Imagine for a second what would happen if as much dough was invested in the SU-57 project as in the F-35 project ... or at least one of its three versions. I think SU-57 would have flown for a long time already and exported. Only we have so many grandmas.
            Quote: gunnerminer
            And not the remnants of the once powerful aviation industry.

            Dear, and in order not to cry about the leftovers, people restore it, create new, in spite of corruption, moans and cries of people like you and lack of money.
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 22 October 2018 09: 09
              -2
              -SSSR alone created better fighters than the western ones-
              The USSR was so swam. Together with the best fighters.

              -F-22, in essence, is also a model for testing technologies-
              So you still have no such layout.
  10. gridasov
    gridasov 21 October 2018 16: 25
    +3
    You need to be a complete amateur, to say the least, to rejoice that the temperature of the gases in front of the turbine is 1850 degrees. In other words, people generally do not understand the physical processes that correspond to the efficient operation of the turbine
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 21 October 2018 16: 45
      +1
      Quote: gridasov
      You need to be a complete amateur, to say the least, to rejoice that the temperature of the gases in front of the turbine is 1850 degrees

      And you create at least one of your engines, and then criticize. And then there are some general theoretical considerations, but what about the output? 0 ...? I have no more questions hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 October 2018 16: 44
    +4
    From 15 to 19.5 tons? If so, then this is a grand achievement by Russian designers good
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2018 16: 55
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      From 15 to 19.5 tons? If so, then this is a grand achievement by Russian designers good

      A very interesting question is the speed of SU-57 afterburner in fact ... I think there will not be much less than 3000 km / h ...
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 October 2018 16: 57
        +5
        Well, if 2 by 19.5, then you can easily overclock to 2.5 MAX.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2018 17: 00
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Well, if 2 by 19.5, then you can easily overclock to 2.5 MAX.

          The lizard has this indicator 2400km / h, that is, 2,25 Mach.
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 21 October 2018 21: 48
            -2
            The lizard serves. The T-50 is in mock condition.
        2. dauria
          dauria 21 October 2018 23: 59
          -1
          Well, if 2 by 19.5, then you can easily overclock to 2.5 MAX.


          Warrior, out of respect for you personally, as an old-timer. Static traction alone says nothing about speed. This is the second mass of gas multiplied by the speed at the nozzle exit of a standing airplane. You can increase the mass (for example, by the air of the second circuit), or you can speed with the same draft. As soon as the plane begins to move, thrust falls. It is necessary to subtract V aircraft from the V expiration. That is, it is impossible to drive a car above this speed - the remainder of the meager traction must still be spent on resistance. A simple example - the Yak-3 thrust at the start of 3 tons, but above record 700 km per hour in any way. The same Yak-3 (already Yak-15) with a consumptive engine YuMO-004 with a thrust of just 900 kg is easily over 800 km per hour.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 22 October 2018 09: 48
            +4
            I figured roughly, compared to existing fighters of similar weight.
            Fast and the Furious is a necessary thing, but rare. You can jerk 2 seconds to 2.5 MAX and ... the engine immediately for overhaul. In addition, an increase in traction by almost 25%, and in the same dimensions ..? That's cool. If true.
      2. Yodzakura
        Yodzakura 21 October 2018 18: 47
        0
        I wonder what afterburner is what?
        1. Fregate
          Fregate 21 October 2018 19: 05
          0
          Approximately minus 40%. Those. 11,7t.
  12. Allexxx
    Allexxx 21 October 2018 16: 45
    -1
    afterburner thrust "product 30" was measured with the addition of hydrogen sulfide or without? I think the real potential of “product 30” is much higher!
  13. Carib
    Carib 21 October 2018 16: 54
    +2
    Quote: gridasov
    You need to be a complete amateur, to say the least, to rejoice that the temperature of the gases in front of the turbine is 1850 degrees. In other words, people do not understand the physical processes that correspond to the effective operation of the turbine.

    Not all the same, the aircraft engine faculty graduated, you yourself know the enlightenment of others. We can also misunderstand something, because they handed over to other disciplines at the university.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 21 October 2018 19: 21
      0
      If you understand what energy density is, then you can easily answer for yourself why the inlet temperature needs to be reduced, and accordingly you will understand why all modern turbines operate on the fundamentally wrong sequence of stages of physical processes. At the same time I will answer that person who reads texts only in words, and not in meaning. Before creating anything you need to understand the essence of the processes that this device will provide. Therefore, show - do not show the engine ignorant does not understand the principles of its operation.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 21 October 2018 19: 53
        0
        Elementary calculations show that a thrust of 50 or more tons per engine and with a smaller diameter can be obtained with a new design. There is no need for multi-stage compression of the flow .. Everything is achieved in one step.
  14. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 21 October 2018 16: 58
    +1
    c F35 even the issue of assembly is not considered .... only the sale of the finished product. Fearing sanctions, India is promoting the sale of an assembly line and a license for the latest version of the F-16. True, without the localization of the engine, radar and something else .... but the American line will be transferred to India.
  15. Runoway
    Runoway 21 October 2018 17: 03
    0
    Well, what, in fact, not our media, but the recurrent interest of the Indians, will be a signal that the SU-57 has been "DRINKED" in some century.
    In general, we are putting together an interesting picture for the Indians, the "X" hour will definitely come in the urgent need for 5th generation aircraft and no purchase of rafals will fix the situation.
    In the world there is only:
    -F-22 not for sale
    -F-35, as the author pointed out, is too expensive, given the changes in infrastructure, and will the Saxons sell because of the presence of the S-400?
    -Chinese "Aliexpress-j20" aircraft of the secret generation lol who also will not be sold
    -SU-57 (light version) - no alternative
    Therefore, shish and not technology, plus% of gypsies for inconstancy
    And China’s behavior is also interesting, after India’s acquisition of the 57th, with its toys, the balance in the sky can be created only by the quantity
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 21 October 2018 22: 05
      0
      Gypsies will not help us in the war and we need to have 200 pieces in our Air Force ...
      1. Waldemar
        Waldemar 21 October 2018 22: 35
        +6
        Not 200 but about 2000 units. must take into account the geography and lessons of total wars
        The United States has never put much emphasis on "defense", because it never occurs to them that they will be attacked on their territory. Therefore, they are "defending" destroying everything around the world, so that there is no one to defend against. And the main weapon of their defense is the manipulation of the economy and finances, as well as "civil institutions" around the world under the control of the CIA. And given that the United States is only a sign, the real enemy is the banksters, who will calmly strangle the people in any country of their residence without a twinge of conscience, which, however, they do not have in their psychotype. it's just that they are historically based on the territory of the Anglo-Saxons. Anglo-Saxons are their working ants or mules. and the conditional "queen ant" is indirectly related to the Anglo-Saxons. If a country has a chance of independence, life is spoiled in every way. It is easier for them to poison their enemy with poison or stab him in a dream than to fight him. and questions of moral law are not relevant here. it would also be nice for us to consider them (our enemies) exclusively from a biological point of view - as prey and food.
        1. Runoway
          Runoway 22 October 2018 01: 47
          -2
          Plus fierce, BUT! Given all of the above, you need to fight the enemy not with the 2000s Su-57, but with an initially independent economy and politics without the hope of friendship with the hegemon. And when the country's banking system is built to take out a loan (conditionally) at 3-4% from the IMF and give it to the population at 18-20%, then what kind of fighters will help here ?! Plus corruption, aligarchy, slaughtered agriculture and medicine, space-priced housing and penny benefits. Rich Buzovs and impoverished engineers + a film on TV about Rambo. Here, the 2000 Su-57 finally put their homeland on their knees. The state is sick with us, it is necessary to treat, and only then to battle
          1. Waldemar
            Waldemar 22 October 2018 03: 06
            0
            the state needs a Stalinist economy and a totalitarian ideology, though amended for the era. with oligarchs and capitalism you won’t cook porridge. such a country is an apartment without a door, and the indigenous people are stray dogs. I am for nationalism in its original meaning
  16. mvg
    mvg 21 October 2018 18: 56
    +3
    I would like to look at the author of the article ... And all the same it is interesting, such "news" are written to order, or "from the heart" is nonsense?
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 21 October 2018 19: 13
      +2
      Maxim, write you your news - compare and evaluate wink Admins, by the way, welcome new authors yes
      "Do not agree - mind. Object - offer. Suggest - do" hi
      1. mvg
        mvg 21 October 2018 20: 43
        +3
        So, 19,5 tons - above the afterburner thrust of the F-35 engines

        All my life I thought the F-35C had one engine.
        And after abandoning the FGFA (Su-57), India remained face to face with its sworn geopolitical friend - China.

        And I thought more with Pakistan there are graters ... And who said that India is a great friend of Russia than China ...
        Now it becomes clear that F-35 India will not receive the CAATSA package by virtue of the aforementioned package, and even frankly it does not burn with the desire for such a receipt for several reasons.

        They want, buy ... The United States has repeatedly offered India the F-35. Well, she doesn’t transfer technology to others ... for example, Turkey, which is a project participant.
        PS: Andrey, got the news, sucked out of your finger, if only there was traffic .. Everything that is written in this "news", sucked "to the bone" ... Like, plin, news about Kokorin and Mamaev, and before , about Klushakov and Yeshchenko .. If only something to write.
        PPS: I personally would be ashamed to write such a thing (this is for you because the admins are glad to new authors ...) even the attitude to the Armenian radio is better.
        Where did the afftor get such numbers, were they officially posted, or again the "source" said ...
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 21 October 2018 21: 23
          -2
          Quote: mvg
          Personally, I would be ashamed to write such a thing (this is for you because the admins are happy with the new authors ...), even the attitude to the Armenian radio is better.

          "If you cannot change the course of things, change your attitude towards them."
          Do you know what I do when I read such news too? I’m smiling, because admins should understand that the credibility of a site depends on many factors, one of which is the veracity and quality of news smile
          So if you want to change something, you have to participate yourself, because there are a lot of such expressors of discontent, as we are here. Therefore, our discontent can only indirectly help, and then when it will be really massive and the admins will think about the course of things ... request
          If you are not the founder of the site, then it is not for you to change the rules wink So they are so happy ... what So relax ... Don’t waste your nerves that you don’t deserve to be spent on it. There are a lot of other interesting things in life that would pay serious attention to such news in drinks hi
          1. mvg
            mvg 21 October 2018 22: 45
            +1
            drinks Nizya, tomorrow to work. breathe fumes ... hi
            And the nerves are spoiled by those who are entitled by their status ... in the sense of good luck.
  17. MrFox
    MrFox 21 October 2018 19: 38
    +2
    Now Reading: The F-135 turbojet engine developed by Pratt & Whitney has 13 thousand kgf thrust without afterburner, 19 thousand 500 kgf in afterburner mode.
    https://tass.ru/info/5617911

    Wikipedia gives the same meaning.

    Where is the excess?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 22 October 2018 12: 05
      +2
      Quote: MrFox
      Where is the excess?


      In the minds of the authors of articles
  18. aiden
    aiden 21 October 2018 19: 41
    +3
    Yes, let them take f-35
  19. gridasov
    gridasov 21 October 2018 19: 58
    0
    It is very important to speak not only about thrust, but also its growth rate. So for our turbines, these thrust growth rates are an order of magnitude higher. That is, this is generally the working and normal operation mode of the turbine.
  20. Waldemar
    Waldemar 21 October 2018 20: 10
    +3
    The f35 has one engine. Su57 has two. how and what do the authors compare? F35 is a 4 ++ generation. Supersonic afterburner. Su57 with a new engine generation 5+. Using announced plasma generators - 5 ++
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 21 October 2018 20: 16
      -1
      There is a big difference in how plasma is generated. If it is generated by a separate device, then it is ineffective. Therefore, the process should occur inside the stream itself in a natural way.
      1. Waldemar
        Waldemar 21 October 2018 22: 32
        -2
        excuse me, I am a civilian without higher access to classified information, I don’t know how this technology works.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 21 October 2018 23: 40
          +3
          We have parity. I am a simple provincial physicist. Therefore, I chat, I think and know on my mind. Subscriptions did not. The responsibility for what I say is only to myself. But if in Russia they do not know what fractal principles are in constructing a phase lattice, and American partners do not understand that short-wavelength elements of the device should be closer to the center of the radius and why, then I’d better share it with Slavs.
    2. mvg
      mvg 21 October 2018 20: 45
      +3
      plasma generators - 5 ++

      Forgot about the announced R2 / D2 and gravity ... Well, the laser is already worth it.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 October 2018 21: 59
        +4
        And hypersound, of course. Now everything flies on hypersound and new physical principles. smile
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 22 October 2018 12: 05
      +2
      Quote: Valdemar
      Supersonic at afterburner.


      Stupid say. The F-35 is capable of flying at a speed corresponding to M = 1,2 (that is, 1,2 times the speed of sound) for a distance of ≈240 km without the afterburner.
  21. Compasure
    Compasure 21 October 2018 21: 35
    +2
    I don’t understand another thing, is the aerodynamics of the Su-57 airframe so much better than the F-35 that with engines that are weaker (2 Type 30 have almost the same thrust with the F-135) the speed is 1,5 times faster?
    And yet, AFAR: N-036 Squirrel is inferior to AN / APG-81, probably this stopped the Indians from continuing the joint contract, because whoever saw the first, he won
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 21 October 2018 21: 47
      +1
      -And AFAR: N-036 Squirrel is inferior to AN / APG-81, probably this stopped the Indians from continuing the joint contract, because whoever saw the first was the one to win-

      Only in this way. Nobody is going to turn bends - a horse on a horse - in a modern battle is not going to.
      1. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 21 October 2018 22: 22
        +2
        The winner is not the one who first saw, but the one that has more chances to win. The first to see is not a fight yet.
  22. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 21 October 2018 21: 46
    0
    - To date, tests of the Su-57 with a second-stage engine have already begun in Russia-

    Which is unknown when and what will end. The IFI is valuable in the complex. Not only traction. The lack of a reliable serial engine of the second stage is only one of the problems of creating the MPI. The flow of American electronic components has become scanty. Because it does not work out the radar with AFAR, the helmet of God’s eye.
    1. Compasure
      Compasure 21 October 2018 21: 58
      +2
      if American components were used, the Squirrel would not be inferior to AN / APG
    2. gridasov
      gridasov 21 October 2018 22: 28
      +2
      Bullshit! Phased array can work even without relying on electronic components from other countries. First, you must understand that there are physical principles that are distributed along the radius. I will not be very frank, but on Russian components it is possible to create more efficient antennas and, in general, devices for one-way signal reception.
  23. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 21 October 2018 22: 10
    0
    I am glad that we have reached the modern level in terms of turbojet engines .... Americans did this 30 years ago. We hope for the appearance of the same technologies in the dimensions of RD-33 ... In any case, the US monopoly in this matter has been violated.
  24. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 21 October 2018 22: 20
    0
    Hindus are masters of yoga. So let bite your elbows and heels.
  25. Evgeny Strygin
    Evgeny Strygin 21 October 2018 22: 58
    +3
    judging by the comments here, every second on the su57 flies to work.
    Maybe I missed something, but the army is armed with the same thing as thirty years ago.
  26. 123456789
    123456789 21 October 2018 23: 09
    +1
    By now, tests of the Su-57 with the engine of the second stage have already begun in Russia. The engine has been significantly increased due to the newest technologies being implemented. Thus, the afterburner "30 products" brought to the value of 18 tons (and according to the latest data, and at all to 19,5). So, 19,5 tons - above the afterburner thrust of F-35 engines. In comparison with 15 tons of the engine of the first stage, this is a real breakthrough. The gas temperature in front of the turbine reaches 1830 degrees Celsius.

    Well, here you can think about creating a 5th generation single-engine fighter. A sort of MiG-51 by analogy with the MiG-21 ...
  27. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 22 October 2018 00: 27
    -1
    Quote: Arh
    Russia and India together let them create, India is our good ally !!!

    What are they "good" ?!
    Naughty ka pregnant penguins, finicky, like an 80 year old virgin in search of a suitable groom.
    The brains are purple, what is their acceptance of submarines for leasing.
    And subsequent excursions of American "tourists" to the nuclear-powered ship.
    DWN: https://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2017/11/11/indien-gewaehrt-us-marine-zutritt-zu-russischem-atom-u-boot/
    India launched the Americans on the Russian nuclear submarine

    https://russian.rt.com/inotv/2017-11-12/DWN-Indiya-pustila-amerikancev-na
    "The US Navy is a well-educated technician, so the possibility cannot be ruled out that they could collect some information., writes Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten "
  28. Leonid Har
    Leonid Har 22 October 2018 02: 47
    0
    What if they go back down again. The Indians have proven that they are non-partners. Just a little, they can leave it with a nose.
  29. Errr
    Errr 22 October 2018 05: 57
    +1
    Will we pull avionics? Somebody knows?
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 22 October 2018 08: 30
      -1
      Always pulled.
      1. Errr
        Errr 22 October 2018 08: 35
        +1
        Without foreign parts?
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 22 October 2018 09: 44
          -1
          You teach mate something. Without special Permissions in the military can not even use an import resistor. The exception was only for Belarusians.
          1. Errr
            Errr 22 October 2018 14: 38
            0
            Thank you for the good advice. Materiel learned. It turned out that the Hindustan avionics components were supposed to be used only on FGFA.
  30. EvilLion
    EvilLion 22 October 2018 08: 23
    -1
    It is given. F-35 with empty weight from 13 tons and Su-57 with empty weight 18-19 tons, on the first 1 engine, on the second 2. Turn on the brain and understand that the 1 engine on the Su-57 is noticeably smaller than the F-35 engine in any way? At the same time, the F-35 with one, albeit more powerful engine, is not a competitor for either the Su-35 or the Su-57. That's just from the word in general. Comparable thrust-to-weight ratio will be only with normal take-off weight.

    From what fright on a smaller engine will 19 tons of thrust? There 18 promised. Well, if 16.5 will make, that will be + 10% increase, and it is drop a lot by modern standards. And it wouldn’t hurt to pull out the liftless drive, now the AL-41F for this indicator is noticeably inferior to the F-22 engine, in the afterburner there is about parity, in terms of the ratio of thrust to weight, it’s not even better.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 22 October 2018 12: 03
      +2
      Quote: EvilLion

      It is given. F-35 with empty weight from 13 tons and Su-57 with empty weight 18-19 tons, on the first 1 engine, on the second 2. Turn on the brain and understand that the 1 engine on the Su-57 is noticeably smaller than the F-35 engine in any way? At the same time, the F-35 with one, albeit more powerful engine, is not a competitor for either the Su-35 or the Su-57. That's just from the word in general. Comparable thrust-to-weight ratio will be only with normal take-off weight.


      The maximum take-off weight of the F35A is around 29 100 kg. Normal take-off weight - 24 350 kg. Empty weight - 13 tons.

      Su-35 has normal take-off weight (2 x Р77 + 2 x Р-73Э): 25300 kg, maximum take-off weight: 34500 kg. Empty weight 19 tons. Su-57 has a pre-empty weight: 18500 kg, normal take-off weight: with 63% fuel: 26510 kg, with 100% fuel: 30610 kg

      So we count.
      1. yehat
        yehat 22 October 2018 15: 25
        0
        The maximum take-off weight of the F35A is about 29 kg. Normal take-off weight is 100 kg. Empty weight - 24 tons


        and empty with or without a pilot? just the Vietnamese or Koreans can win due to the weight of the pilot.
  31. Larum
    Larum 22 October 2018 09: 01
    +2
    Inadequate in title.
    2 latest engine finally outnumbered 1n 10 years ago?
    Should everyone ride for joy?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 22 October 2018 11: 57
      +2
      Quote: Larum

      Inadequate in title.
      2 latest engine finally outnumbered 1n 10 years ago?
      Should everyone ride for joy?


      And not surpassed. So far, only reached
      1. goose
        goose 23 October 2018 11: 41
        -1
        Quote: Pimply
        And not surpassed. So far, only reached

        With smaller dimensions and weight, which is an advantage.
  32. Е2 - Е4
    Е2 - Е4 22 October 2018 11: 02
    +2
    The afterburner is not an operating mode, the afterburner can be changed as much as you like, but the payment for this is the engine resource. You can also make it from the PIT so that the motor will give out 300-500 ... L / s Only how much will it travel 100 meters on it ??? The main parameter is thrust in the non-afterburner mode and the ratio of mass to thrust !!! Another nonsense "that do not have ANALOGUES IN THE WORLD" This is the first 5th generation aircraft have already been adopted by the USA, China ... we just compare something there on prototypes ... how do you even know the real capabilities of the 5th generation aircraft of the USA ?? ? A country that has no production, a country where machine tools in the military-industrial complex are imports more than ten years ago, what can they create ??? A country that even a telephone today is not able to create
  33. Elephant
    Elephant 22 October 2018 11: 06
    0
    Why should the F-35 surpass our aircraft in terms of afterburner thrust? They don't really need close combat and cannon fire. They have a locator for 200 km. and appropriate missile armament. And there is only one question - will their small and highly maneuverable air-to-air missiles be able to reach our plane?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 October 2018 11: 47
      +3
      Fast and the Furious is needed in two cases: 1) to attack sharply (quickly get closer to the distance of the missile shot)
      2) quickly run away (get out of a disadvantageous battle).
      Even if the engine will be constipated as a result of afterburner, then the job is done: the battle is won or he is saved.
      1. Elephant
        Elephant 22 October 2018 12: 00
        -2
        It remains for the Americans to work with documentation on hypersound (with the fact that our people from TsNIImash recently sold to the West - https://www.rbc.ru/society/20/07/2018/5b5189129a7947ec36459fd8
      2. yehat
        yehat 22 October 2018 15: 26
        0
        that's just not all planes fly after afterburner - an instant-25 experience, for example.
      3. goose
        goose 23 October 2018 11: 37
        -1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Fast and the Furious is needed in two cases: 1) to attack sharply (quickly get closer to the distance of the missile shot)
        2) quickly run away (get out of a disadvantageous battle).
        Even if the engine will be constipated as a result of afterburner, then the job is done: the battle is won or he is saved.

        How does afterburner steam engine? Clarification is needed.
        As far as I read the Talmuds, in jet engines it is not necessary to turn on the afterburner to go beyond the standard temperatures, one can clearly note only the increase in load, but it is also smooth, and is much inferior in scale to the overloads obtained during intensive maneuvers.
        Maybe they put a piston engine on the F-35? then no questions.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 23 October 2018 11: 39
          +2
          The MiG-25 engine, for example, after complete afterburner failed. With a replacement.
          1. yehat
            yehat 24 October 2018 11: 20
            0
            the instant generally has permanent problems with engine survivability on fighter jets. What for instant-23, what for instant-25, what for instant-29. Mig-17 and 21 does not count - there the engine from England sailed. Departures on the engine before overhaul or replacement are calculated in pieces. I hope they learned and started taking care of it. Sukhoi is much better with this.
  34. Pimply
    Pimply 22 October 2018 11: 56
    +2
    F135-PW-100 has a forcing thrust 19 500 kgf. Where and how it is more (and according to the latest data and at all to 19,5) is a mystery
  35. cockroaches
    cockroaches 22 October 2018 12: 07
    -1
    Quote: Valdemar
    The f35 has one engine. Su57 has two. how and what do the authors compare? F35 is a 4 ++ generation. Supersonic afterburner. Su57 with a new engine generation 5+. Using announced plasmogen

    Quote: Valdemar
    excuse me, I am a civilian without higher access to classified information, I don’t know how this technology works.

    This is all you need to know about "experts"
  36. Lycan
    Lycan 22 October 2018 12: 12
    0
    Someone knows why Indians (and indeed any other country that does not differ in consistency in principle) should be allowed into joint promising developments (not only military equipment)?
    They will later dump a human at low pay. labor, and they will hand over the technology to the likely adversary for lifting the package of sanctions, for preferences for high officials, for other buns like allowing the children of these highest people in the West to study. One has only to change the parliament ... These "rakes" have been running around for about 200 years.
  37. Dr. Bermental
    Dr. Bermental 22 October 2018 13: 58
    0
    it’s not clear why the Indostans are needed if the plane is already ready7 who will explain to me?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 October 2018 15: 14
      +2
      There is no money for its refinement and production.
      1. yehat
        yehat 24 October 2018 11: 22
        0
        there is money, but if you make a small amount, the cost is growing
        relatively speaking, the participation of the Indians will allow us to triple the configuration of our aviation regiments by reducing the cost and making profit from cooperation.
  38. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 22 October 2018 14: 40
    -2
    They won’t go anywhere. Ordinary bazaar traders try to knock down the price with pseudo blackmail. But now is not the 90 years, when aircraft carriers were sold, at the price of scrap metal.
  39. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 22 October 2018 15: 39
    -2
    Our Su-57 and with operating engines in maneuverability far surpasses the F-35 and F-22, as well as the Su-35S ...
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 22 October 2018 18: 09
      -1
      How old are you? Big leaders are not guided by such childish logic. Leaders must be guided by the interests of the country


      He lived long enough to see the following picture - if India happened, the war with China would lose it in one wicket. Big leaders make far more stupid mistakes - Gorbachev, Yeltsin, from whom millions suffer, thousands died, tens of millions become poor. So take it easy.
  40. kutuz
    kutuz 22 October 2018 20: 41
    +2
    "By now, tests of the Su-57 have already begun in Russia" - and so on for 12 years in a row. It has not yet gone into production, but has already become obsolete, although in a conditional battle, I conditionally won everyone, however, like Armata.
  41. Indifferent
    Indifferent 22 October 2018 23: 45
    +1
    I didn’t understand something. On our plane, 2 engines and their thrust were brought up to 19.5 tons. And on the Amer plane there is one engine, and on it the thrust was 19.5 tons. What is boron cheese about in this case? It turns out that for each engine we have half the thrust. Can anyone brag about this? Or I don’t understand something. Who is the specialist, please explain.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 23 October 2018 08: 34
      -1
      Actually, the traction characteristics of the engine are determined for its own weight on the stand. Further, the parameters are correlated with the mass of the aircraft. In general, it is necessary to understand what axial thrust is caused by the pressure of the gases converted in the engine and abuts against an airy elastic medium when the masses of these gases are rejected. However, thrust caused by the suction of air into the engine can be added to this. fundamentally transformed into a new and more effective one where the parameters of suction and rejection of the masses can be balanced on new principles.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 23 October 2018 08: 42
        -1
        There is a set of methods in which the traction parameters at the waste of masses can be increased by an order of magnitude, as well as to be carried out at the suction. For some reason, this is not done by the designers, apparently because the problem is not in the manufacture of turbines, but in understanding how to do it correctly There is no deep understanding of the physics of the conversion process. Everyone has come up with a search for fuel with a high potential energy of combustion in a pressure stream of air, and the secret is simpler but orders of magnitude more efficient methods.
  42. Antonio_Mariarti
    Antonio_Mariarti 23 October 2018 10: 23
    -1
    The Hindus wanted us to provide them with the development technology of the Su-57 engine. We refused, so they left, they also wrote that they wanted us to take it from them completely for them (technology transfer).
  43. goose
    goose 23 October 2018 11: 32
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    It is important to bring the SU-57 to a series by any means

    It’s also important to take into service and form at least one part, the size of not less than a regiment. Without this, no one will buy a technology demonstrator.
  44. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 23 October 2018 16: 59
    -1
    So the Indians did not seem to break the contract, but postponed it. And the FGFA project is not quite the same as the Su-57.
    We will see how our Su-57s go to the troops, especially with the new engine.
  45. Tarhan
    Tarhan 24 October 2018 06: 44
    0
    In general, why crush water in a mortar.
    Vice Prime Minister Borisov clearly stated that the Su-57 will not go into the series, as well as Armata, as well as Altair. Borisov complained about the high cost. But it seems that the Su-57 did not reach the level of the 5th generation aircraft. 5th generation only glider meets. No 5th generation engine, No 5th generation stealth technologies, no 5th generation avionics. Maybe they would have reached out, but sanctions cut the path to components.
  46. Sergey Petrovsky
    Sergey Petrovsky 26 October 2018 06: 55
    0
    Thrust was brought up to one hundred tons, up to 100 tons. I haven’t read this ism for a long time. But breathtaking.