Military Review

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After Russia presented its tank T-14 "Armata", which is the German edition Focus calls the most modern combat a tank in the world, some Western countries have begun work to create an equal rival to this war machine.


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For example, in early October, the British defense company BAE Systems presented a prototype of its Black Night tank, which is a possible version of the updated Challenger 2. This "Military Review" reported in one of its September materials.

As the FocusBritish authorities are generally planning to modernize their outdated fleet of combat vehicles. An update near 400 of the Challenger 2 battle tanks, the first models of which entered service in the 1994 year, is expected soon.

The magazine writes that now the producers of the "Black Night" are working to improve its fighting qualities in the dark. For this, the combat vehicle will be equipped with the most advanced night vision system, as well as installing a system for recognizing and destroying anti-tank missiles that threaten the tank. Focus also notes that a new gun will not appear for this tank in the near future: the powerful gun of the 2016 caliber mm, represented by Rheinmetall concern in 130, which is more than 6 meters in length, is unlikely to be able to tune out the tower of the British combat vehicle.

Thus, as the German magazine concludes, in order to create a worthy opponent for the Russian tank "Armat", the West will have to spend a lot of time and solve a whole range of technological problems.
Photos used:
super-arsenal.ru
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  1. Slinqshot
    Slinqshot 19 October 2018 07: 45
    +16
    We ourselves have to catch up with Armata for a long time. And the Su-57 too. Judging by the management plans ...
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 10
      +4
      According to the concluded contracts for both 14 and Т15, we have 132 pieces until the 2021 year. And how many new contract cars in the states? Germany? Of England? Who are you going to catch up there?
      1. Korax71
        Korax71 19 October 2018 09: 08
        +4
        We have so far only on paper. Let us live in the present.
        1. ushakorv
          ushakorv 19 October 2018 09: 42
          +17
          Quote: Korax71
          We have so far only on paper. Let us live in the present.
          ------- Well, maybe then you will answer a simple question And do you personally report where and how much what they produce or do you build your opinion exclusively on dubious media? It's just that I live in Severodvinsk and work at the Zvyozdochka Ship Repair Center, I don’t even know what is going on behind the wall from me (it’s not supposed to be dangerous) And people like you always puff out their cheeks like I know for sure! But where from ??? The phrases are especially touching -A I talked with knowledgeable people or -A I have a brother there, the matchmaker is working.
          1. Antivirus2k
            Antivirus2k 19 October 2018 10: 11
            -3
            Well, the easiest way is to say that "we don't know anything, everything is secret," but for some reason, journalists in the same USA easily talk about the number of American combat units of this or that equipment, but here "oh, how secret." Do not make me laugh. All our "Armata" are tanks on the parade and there is no mass production. What do we generally release "massively", except for propaganda?
            1. Bull Terrier
              Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 10: 41
              +4
              And who has it? Which army are currently supplying new tanks? Not modernization, namely new ones?
              1. Black sniper
                Black sniper 19 October 2018 12: 31
                +1
                Directly removed from the tongue hi everywhere only modernization, and in fact only Russia and South Korea can boast of truly new armored vehicles. Korea with its new TTX self-propelled gun which I was pleasantly surprised. good
                1. Arh
                  Arh 19 October 2018 16: 11
                  0
                  Our BMPs will be interesting to do on the basis of Almaty, or not, they will find a different approach!?!
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Korax71
            Korax71 19 October 2018 13: 49
            -1
            I don’t work in defense, no one reports to me. To begin with, if you look at all the statements about 14 years from 15, then the deadlines moved, then problems arose, then I got sanctions. If this time everything happens because they said that I’m kicking and kicking for about 60-odd different defense enterprises in our city and region. My brother in the design department of the design bureau that he will not tell me, everyone has a violent opinion from the inside. It’s much more interesting to find out everything from the media.
      2. Normal ok
        Normal ok 19 October 2018 11: 11
        -3
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        According to the concluded contracts for both 14 and Т15, we have 132 pieces until the 2021 year. And how many new contract cars in the states? Germany? Of England? Who are you going to catch up there?

        Just read the news. T-14 WILL NOT be purchased in the troops, they will upgrade the T-72.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 11: 12
          -1
          This is where the news is?)))
      3. Slinqshot
        Slinqshot 19 October 2018 11: 21
        -2
        You know, I see the same helicopters. For example, the Mi-28 is large, noisy with outdated weapons. And according to the statements of the generals, I’m judging - Armata is too advanced, the Su-57 is too expensive.
    2. Bykov.
      Bykov. 19 October 2018 09: 15
      +4
      We will take a long time to catch up with the Russian "Armata" ...

      And to get away from her this will not work at all. Catch and punish.
    3. Machito
      Machito 19 October 2018 11: 33
      +1
      It is possible that Armata is just the first swallow - an experimental model for a break-in. After a comprehensive test, a completely different machine will be launched into the series.
      1. Slinqshot
        Slinqshot 19 October 2018 11: 59
        -3
        So is Armata herself - a simplified and castrated "Black Eagle".
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 19 October 2018 12: 37
          0
          Quote: Slinqshot
          So is Armata herself - a simplified and castrated "Black Eagle".
          Do not confuse, "Black Eagle" (object 640), this is the Omsk development, its predecessors, the T-80 family. "Armata" is the brainchild of UVZ, and if we talk about "castration", then it is "simplified" for the platform object 195 (T-95). Here is what is already being written on this topic ("Military Materials").
          The domestic media published an image of the first prototype of the main battle tank, "resurrecting" it from the past. It had the designation "Object 195", the letter "T-95" was distributed among the general public.

          The creation of the designated tank was carried out in the framework of development work "Improvement-88" under the leadership of the Ural Transport Engineering Bureau and Uralvagonzavod. It was assumed that the new machine, occupying a niche technology 4-th generation, will be a breakthrough in tank design. However, in 2010, the program was curtailed, as the choice was made in favor of “Armata”. According to a number of experts, this decision was unjustified: the T-95 had all the chances to become an excellent machine of the new generation.

          By that time, according to available information, three T-95 units had been produced. The photograph shows the first sample. As you can see from the picture, it is equipped with a sighting and surveillance radar station and an active protection system "Standart". There are no tracks on the tank.

          Previously published materials, which was captured T-95. However, the promulgation of a new image is capable of shedding light on a number of details relating to technology that have not revealed their potential.
          For comparison, the drawings of "Armata" T-14 (125 mm gun) and T-95 (152 mm gun and 30 mm automatic auxiliary).
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 19 October 2018 13: 28
            0
            Post scriptum. Photo of T-95 (object 195) without tracks for the article from "Military Materials".
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 19 October 2018 07: 46
    +16
    Well, we will be proud, we will pay tribute to our designers and others, for Russia !!!
    You just don’t need to calm down and scream, you will strain up behind the hill and make a shot against, expensive of course, but probably effective.
    Those. he works, invents and does such NEW, so that their eyes, as they bask, are not returning to their normal orbit, from surprise, whose fear !!!
  3. Tashkent citizen
    Tashkent citizen 19 October 2018 07: 48
    +1
    Why catch her?
    There are only 10 pcs. for the parades did. Found something to be scared of.
  4. Altona
    Altona 19 October 2018 07: 53
    +6
    Do not see Armat in the army yet. Some announcements only.
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 12
      +2
      How many Uralvagonzavod contracts have broken?) 132 is a clear contract. Perform it as it should.
      1. Altona
        Altona 19 October 2018 08: 18
        +5
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        How many UVZ contracts have broken?)

        -----------------------
        What does UVZ have to do with it? They will not give funding and that's it. Today they have it, tomorrow Borisov says and T-72B3 is enough. The day after tomorrow they say that "excessive militarization is not needed." Still others say there will be a sequestration of defense programs. That's all.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 41
          -2
          Has this already happened? I didn’t hear something) there is a contract, it was provided, the plant began to work in this direction. There is no other information. Is there a new 90 cm contract? He is being fulfilled. I prefer to proceed from open information rather than hypothetical options)
          1. Antivirus2k
            Antivirus2k 19 October 2018 10: 15
            -6
            Prefer to proceed from the Russian realities of Putin's power. I understand that without pink glasses is not comfortable, but what can I do.
            1. Bull Terrier
              Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 10: 45
              +3
              Let you proceed as you wish, and I will decide for myself what to do. They have already presented the contracts, and the fact that these contracts were essentially paid for was explained, since all this in the state program for this period is suffering anyway. The funny thing is, you still will not see them after delivery, will you also start screaming that they are not there, all the rest are 10 from the installation batch? At the same time, take an interest in what the Tamanians are using at landfills now.
  5. Shepard
    Shepard 19 October 2018 08: 07
    +5
    Why should they catch up with us and the Abrams are satisfied? They know very well that the five Armats will not cope with thousands of Abrams. Well tensed well built for the parade. There is no mass production, the army is still in service with the T-72. I live in Tagil at UVZ continue to reduce the people as it will increase the production of tanks is not clear. I still can not reliably say, but whether we can fully supply ourselves with components for the production of tanks, we cannot produce bearings in the right amount. In their hands, money will not give loans to UVZ and Armta is covered with a copper basin.
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 15
      +5
      From what workshops to reduce?) From military or civilian? Caterpillars in three shifts are apparently doing some other plant? Sign multi-billion dollar contracts for new cars and cut people? Do not smack nonsense, it hurts.
      1. Shepard
        Shepard 19 October 2018 09: 41
        +2
        Excuse my ignorance, I cannot deny about multibillion orders. The question is with whom. Besides the tracks, if only the tanks did. The main consumer of the same long-suffering Abrams is the Pentagon. I have not seen the huge headlines "The Ministry of Defense placed an order for UVZ for the production of 1000 Armata tanks per year of various modifications"
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 10: 51
          +2
          Truck Omsk generally saws. Ask for someone better. Loud headlines? Well, look at the contracts for 2017 on the forum, look at this. The signing of the contracts was officially presented. I consider money in rubles. Excuse me the Iraqi order I forgot to cross-over in rubles. Last year 32 i-90cm 10 of them from scratch. 31 and 80 bvm. For 72 how many issued I do not remember already. These are only cars of MO. This year, a new contract for t90 cm was not announced, but the fact that it’s big is a fact. 132 and 14i t15. You can count yourself. There are approximate veins of these cars on the network. I repeat this is only tanks. And they not only make them. And, I swayed back to Algeria 90 left in the summer.
    2. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 19 October 2018 08: 35
      0
      What kind of stuffing ....
  6. CHeroBu4ok (BLR)
    CHeroBu4ok (BLR) 19 October 2018 08: 34
    +7
    Well, they also have the name of the technique "Black Night" and why not Wet Water or Butter Oil,
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 42
      +1
      Well there are white nights)))))
    2. Alex_You
      Alex_You 19 October 2018 11: 54
      -1
      But Kurganets or the same Armata is the normal name or no Russian words? But the peak of creativity is the Balkans, rummaged through the entire Internet what kind of word is incomprehensible.
  7. 2329 Carpenter
    2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 08: 35
    +2
    In the past 20 years, the West has not created anything new in the tank world - nothing. Either just scored, or at the expense of upgrades Leopards and Abramsov decided to get out.
    But in general, to some extent, this is alarming. Mb The very concept of the use of heavy armored combat vehicles is analyzed and revised against the background of dominance in modern combat operations of front-line aviation, almost every type of which is geared towards destroying BT. Yes, and without air support in land formations, there is an intentional means of financing: from complex to individual.
    Will the tank formation manage to crawl to the finish of its combat mission in the presence of so many high-precision anti-tank destruction units?
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 08: 48
      0
      Well, here it’s also possible to say against whether all these forces will have time to deploy to destroy tank formations. If Europe is more or less clear, the majority stupidly hoping for the strength of Nata especially do not want to spend money. The last modification Leo almost give out piece by piece, then the states I think again are following the path of another prodigy. Again darpa voices some kind of caterpillar wheels ...
      1. 2329 Carpenter
        2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 09: 01
        0
        I saw pictures of these Darpov youth innovations. This is what alerted.
        As for the child prodigy: I think that this is a mutual chicken with an egg. I don’t know what they have.
        It's hard to give me a link from the phone. Try to find an article in the Rossiyskaya Gazeta on April 12.04.2012, XNUMX. "The worst bullet" emnip is called.
        There you can guess about our wunderras and waffles.
        hi
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 10: 57
          -3
          I have read so many such assumptions over the years that my head hurt. In addition to the work on the development of armored forces from the USSR to the Russian Federation in various versions))) A lot can be assumed, but one thing is certain - until there is a real breakthrough option, there will be darkness experiments) from drones to some sort of hybrids. The States want to exploit their Abrams before the age of 50.
  8. prior
    prior 19 October 2018 08: 42
    0
    Another year of war and there will be no men,
    There will be pants on the back hanging out.
    You come to sit, look at your pants,
    Hold on to my pants ....
    A couple of years of such an economy and there is no one and no reason to defend the Homeland.
    Why defend a country where nothing belongs to the poor people ?!
    1. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 08: 54
      -1
      Prior damn, in which place do we have a specifically poor people? Or are you mourning collectors in garbage cans? So this is not poverty - it is a disease. Or - mania ...
      There is no need to blow one pipe with the Echo of Moscow - there is only one pipka from the pipe. This is an echo toy, leave it to them.
      1. prior
        prior 19 October 2018 09: 31
        +6
        Vasya the carpenter, while you have an ax in your hands and you have a job - you are in the grocery store "oligarch".
        And the liberals from the "echo of matzah" - I did not resist, I am offended for the state.
        1. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 09: 45
          -2
          And do not be offended! Do not forget the 90s - then it was not a shame?
          I was upset in the 80s when they received meat and butter on cards, and when it was necessary to crawl for 2 km in the queue, and often with a fight.
          Or when the party members were looking at each other for jambs so that they would be moved closer to the apartment or car.
          When else did we live as we are now?
          1. Antivirus2k
            Antivirus2k 19 October 2018 10: 25
            +6
            The population is shrinking (Russian), practically nothing is "produced" in the country apart from oil, the country's GDP is 2% of world GDP, we are eating up the Soviet legacy in the form of a superpower, but we are not saving it - and the rockets have already begun to fall, which have not fallen for 40 years. And with you "we never lived so well." You don't think like a "carpenter" but like a "gopnik". Of course, people live better in the 21st century than in the 12th century. You also say that under the "accursed Stalin" there was no Internet. But the problem is that it is necessary to compare in numbers and on a global scale. So in the USSR, we lived in a great country, which had 20% of world GDP, we produced almost the entire cycle of goods and services, even if not all of them were of the proper quality. Today we are a gas station, no matter how offensive the words of the enemy McCain may sound. On the world stage, we still matter something just because the USSR got a lot of good nuclear missiles. There is no development in the country, only "May decrees" that end in "zilch" (talk to those who fall under these decrees). And you rejoice at the full shelves of palm oil products. Well, if this was the goal of your whole life for you, then personally I am sincerely sorry for you. Well, at least do not stand in line for "vodroy". Here it is - happiness, yeah ...
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 11: 21
              0
              And - I'm glad, that's right! I confess it makes me happy when the grandmother at the entrance swears about "what the people have been brought to" in the presence of a tail of smoked pink salmon sticking out of the package. I am also glad that we "do not produce anything" except oil. Well, and some other missiles there, submarines, and other camouflage-painted hooters ...
              Japan, for example, also produces a lot of things, and the military, including But do we take Japan seriously? That's right - no. In the same way, we have no respect for China’s advances in military development. Because we know what China will be, try it only to jerk us.
              And of course we do not go every year to give reports to the "regional committee" to tell them that they say that something has been destroyed, that is fucked up ... We generally talk to them differently now.
              Or is it not so?
              1. Zloyxirurg
                Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 11: 59
                0
                China doesn’t twitch, wise guy, he calmly squeezes Baikal, the Amur Region and other lands from you, thanks to your friend GDP, who provided you with a cheap and important swill for you, which adopted a unique federal law on TOR.
                Sit on, rejoice.
          2. Zloyxirurg
            Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 11: 56
            -2
            The 90s were created by people like you who, in the 80s, instead of working, stood in lines for vodka. Like you - prosrali great country.
            You can argue for a long time, but I know for sure - that in the USSR, after 3 days, women were not discharged from the maternity hospital.
            And I know for sure - in hospitals they didn’t ask for paid tests to be taken by people who were quickly taken away.
            Something like this, and you sit and worry about the fact that for hours standing in lines for vodka.
            Soon you will not be able to follow her, despite your obvious addiction to her.
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 18
              0
              You, Surgeon, are very predictable. Therefore, it is also very, primitive, and uninteresting. For example, my "obvious addiction" to any alcohol-containing drink ended, to be honest, on 25.02.2011. Moreover, without the help of "magicians" - encoders and other spellcasters. Life turned out to be doping-free (take an example!) Where it is good.
              Yes, in general ... I’ve recently been on a site, but I have already seen such sprinklers of saliva and snot, as well as various all-en-profile and all-crawlers, sorry, to vomit ...
              But how without them? From the toilet also stinks, but without it in some places - nothing.
              hi
              1. Zloyxirurg
                Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 12: 28
                0
                Blah blah blah. Chatterbox he and Africa talker.
                A distinctive feature - then nobody and nothing and nowhere confirmed information = all your comments. Stargazer in a word, well, you understand, I hope.
                And it’s you who are not interested, because you don’t know what to say on the FACTS!
                And I wrote comments in response to yours - not for a dialogue with you a gray and poor chatterbox, but so that people around could see that lizunobots are able to calculate everywhere. My sold-out "friend")))
        2. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 10: 10
          0
          SW Prior, well, no offense for Echo M. hi
          But I also wanted to clarify: a carpenter and an ax - this picture is already out of date. Here - a carpenter, and a variety of electric, and sometimes gasoline powered tools - this is now the most real.
          Although the "combat value" of the ax has decreased significantly over the past decades, I personally love it; he is of Soviet steel, with a hatchet under "his hand".
          Good for fast, non-responsible work "on the go".
          hi
          1. prior
            prior 19 October 2018 10: 27
            +2
            Anecdote:
            Petka comes to Vasily Ivanovich. He sits naked, but in a tie from Versace.
            - Vasily Ivanovich! Why are you naked?
            “So there is no one.”
            - And why put on a tie from Versace?
            - What if someone comes in.

            In general, then, Carpenter Vasya, I am for world peace and especially for social justice, so that it doesn’t work out — with a bare backside and with a dozen Armats. Some servants of the people of their thoroughbred dogs ride airplanes for haste, but I cannot find a job in retirement, because ... - because ...
            And yet, a good ax, in some cases, no chainsaw can replace, has not grown yet ...
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 11: 59
              0
              Well, yes ... There are all kinds of cases.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 19 October 2018 11: 57
            -1
            Quote: Carpenter 2329
            Here - a carpenter, and a variety of electric, and sometimes gasoline powered tools - this is now the most real.

            And a lot of Russian tools?
            Quote: Carpenter 2329
            Although the "combat value" of the ax has decreased significantly over the past decades, I personally love it; he is of Soviet steel,

            Buy modern, do not regret it. laughing
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 25
              0
              Thank you, Mordvin, for the advice. But "you'd better come to us ...".
              And where is the Russian instrument. He, like many Russian, is not the best in the world. (In general, where is such a country, where they do everything directly - is the best in the world?)
              And from electro I have a good average level - Festul, AEG and Bosch. I have enough.
              But the world's best hand saw - of course, Stanley three de.
              Well, an ax ... An ax for everyone - his own.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 19 October 2018 12: 33
                -1
                Quote: Carpenter 2329
                He, like many Russian, is not the best in the world. (In general, where is such a country, where they do everything directly - is the best in the world?)

                Yes, nowhere. The navel will tear. Only in Russia, almost everything is doing worse than they did in the Union. Therefore, do not groan. Especially about the coupons and lines for vodka, the CIA agent Yakovlev knew what he was doing. It is a pity that this marine was not killed during WWII. This type turned out to be much more dangerous than the populist fool Gorby.
                1. 2329 Carpenter
                  2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 40
                  0
                  Duc ... Where am I? As it is, I say so ...
                  And not a fig not "practically everything" ... Even for cars: the same Niva - are they now made worse than in 79th? They are no different. Now just a little is more convenient, but the same in terms of durability.
                  Well, with pity about Yakovlev - here I really agree ... I am also sorry that he did not meet his forehead with any sharp piece of iron.
                  1. 2329 Carpenter
                    2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 41
                    0
                    And yet ... We introduced food coupons in 1981. About Yakovlev, we did not hear then.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 19 October 2018 13: 00
                      -1
                      Quote: Carpenter 2329
                      Product coupons with us in 1981

                      We did not have coupons in the 81st. At least I don’t remember that. Only now, I think that if they make an iron curtain for us, half the country will die from food shortages. We'll have to master the new virgin lands.
                      1. 2329 Carpenter
                        2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 13: 04
                        0
                        Yeah, this is despite the fact that we are among the leaders in the export of the same wheat?
                        Half the country will die ... Cool, damn it. For what reason? Do we have the Arabian desert or something?
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 19 October 2018 13: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Carpenter 2329
                        Yeah, this is despite the fact that we are among the leaders in the export of the same wheat?

                        Will you eat wheat alone? By the way, they don’t tell us what class of grain is produced as a percentage. And we buy more food than we sell. And if you introduce Soviet GOSTs? We (Tula region), almost all of the agricultural poher. On the way to Moscow, I saw only one field where wheat grew. Nothing else. Neither potatoes, nor beets, nor carrots, nor rye, nor buckwheat, nor even her mother, her, corn. And all this was. Starting from the third grade, we drove for cleaning.
                      3. 2329 Carpenter
                        2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 14: 00
                        0
                        Well, damn it, I don’t know ... Once again I went on this vacation in the Samara and Orenburg regions. Total to the horizon. And a sunflower, and classic cereals, and melons. Cattle, poultry, pigs families run 3 km from the farm ...
                        No, we certainly will not die of hunger. Even if we really want to.
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 19 October 2018 12: 47
                    -1
                    Quote: Carpenter 2329
                    Even for cars: the same Niva - what are they doing now worse than in 79th?

                    And you make a correction for a while. The same Niva in the 80s was supplied to more than 100 countries. Even the English police procured. No modern Russian car can boast of such results. There were dozens of computers.
                    1. 2329 Carpenter
                      2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 55
                      0
                      Correctly! Can not. In 100 countries of the world, or they build cars better than Niva in some respects (I doubt that it’s passable good ); or take cheaper from Koreans and Chinese.
    2. 97110
      97110 19 October 2018 11: 28
      0
      Quote: prior
      Why defend a country where nothing belongs to the poor people ?!

      Name the country where people belong to something. USSR, With Korea, Cuba? I’m not even talking about Poland. As O. Bender said, if banknotes are in circulation in the country, then someone should have a lot of them ... About Koreiko, this is a joke by Ilf Petrov, they looked at 2019 (?), The name is painfully svidomo ...
      1. prior
        prior 19 October 2018 11: 46
        +2
        Ostap Bender and Koreyka are fictional characters from the time of the NEP.
        And in the Soviet Union, with all its imperfection, I remember, without coercion, they sang songs.
        Humiliated and insulted songs do not sing ... they swear, scream, accuse. Doesn’t resemble anything?
        Try, for example, to try on deceived equity holders in the USSR. Does not work?! What is called two worlds, two systems. Feel the difference.
        It would be interesting to find out how motivated the deceived real estate investors are to defend their homeland.
        And in the USSR, apartments were distributed free of charge, that is, for free.
  9. lucul
    lucul 19 October 2018 08: 54
    +2
    Quote: Carpenter 2329
    Yes, and without air support in land formations, there are intentional anti-aircraft vehicles: from complex to individual.
    Will the tank formation manage to crawl to the finish of its combat mission in the presence of so many high-precision anti-tank destruction units?

    You probably have a poor idea of ​​the concept of a tank as such.
    A tank is essentially an artillery cannon covered by armor. And if you can’t put a conventional gun forward for direct fire (they shoot an artillery sniper), then the tank will do it without problems, it is designed for this. All these anti-tank weapons that are not covered by armor are destroyed without problems by ordinary infantry. The main thing is to correctly use the infantry and the tank and everything will be fine. (Infantry the main blow is tank support)
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 19 October 2018 09: 23
      -2
      Interestingly, and the enemy of the infantry is not going to defend their calculations of the type ??? There is a race between the defenders and the attacking means. Moreover, the attacking means are always one step ahead. We began to build up armor on the tank, the tank began to hit it from above into the weakly protected roof and engine compartment hatch.
  10. Larum
    Larum 19 October 2018 08: 56
    +1
    And what for they strain? In Syria and others, at least one video has been seen where tanks fight with tanks?
    Tanks fight from helicopters for 10-20 km.
    From aircraft even further.
    From the ground - up to 6 km
    artillery - up to 30 km with a tip.
    It is full of cases with a detonation at a land mine, they almost finish it off manually.
    Cruise missiles ....

    What is new? Improve the old much cheaper and for the sake of hundreds of cars fuss?
    We looked at Armata and decided - in a hurry ...
    1. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 09: 55
      0
      Here I agree! good
      Here it is again thought - is the tank out of date? He, as always, was good in the last war. And then, at the end of the war with the Fausts and Shreks - he cautiously was good ...
      Now local conflicts: sniper rifle with a caliber of 125 mm.
      A lot of tanks now have to be afraid.
  11. persei
    persei 19 October 2018 08: 59
    +2
    132 pieces until 2021? It’s not funny anymore, but I want to cry
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 11: 02
      -3
      But doesn’t it bother you that the plant is one and besides that, it still saws 72,80,90? Apart from the rest? Do you want them to work like in an alliance? So forgive the factories, it was more, they didn’t really count the money.
  12. 2329 Carpenter
    2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 09: 49
    0
    Quote: lucul
    Quote: Carpenter 2329
    Yes, and without air support in land formations, there are intentional anti-aircraft vehicles: from complex to individual.
    Will the tank formation manage to crawl to the finish of its combat mission in the presence of so many high-precision anti-tank destruction units?

    You probably have a poor idea of ​​the concept of a tank as such.
    A tank is essentially an artillery cannon covered by armor. And if you can’t put a conventional gun forward for direct fire (they shoot an artillery sniper), then the tank will do it without problems, it is designed for this. All these anti-tank weapons that are not covered by armor are destroyed without problems by ordinary infantry. The main thing is to correctly use the infantry and the tank and everything will be fine. (Infantry the main blow is tank support)

    I can imagine a tank almost as much as most: as a fleet vehicle for breaking through enemy defenses.
    Well, about helicopters + what do you have a word?
  13. mvg
    mvg 19 October 2018 09: 52
    +1
    Where do the small-shavens get from 400 Challenger-2, they seem to have a little more than 200
  14. cultural post
    cultural post 19 October 2018 10: 08
    +2
    When they say "catch up" they mean to invent something absolutely new, promising. The sheer number, even of aggressive NATO members, is not so worried, unlike commentators, since a tank is not the basis of the defense capability of modern states, but only a certain element of it. But the ability to produce the best car for limited military companies is a very important element of geopolitics in general.
    And in general, I look and forget the main thing, that weapons, expenses for them and maintenance should satisfy not only the period of wartime, but also peacetime.
  15. Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 19 October 2018 10: 12
    +1
    Quote: Slinqshot
    We ourselves have to catch up with Armata for a long time. And the Su-57 too. Judging by the management plans ...

    And Relight and Poseidon and Sarmat ...
  16. Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 19 October 2018 10: 14
    +2
    Quote: Altona
    Do not see Armat in the army yet. Some announcements only.

    Looks at the Announcements and will fight!
  17. lucul
    lucul 19 October 2018 10: 16
    0
    Quote: Carpenter 2329
    Quote: lucul
    Quote: Carpenter 2329
    Yes, and without air support in land formations, there are intentional anti-aircraft vehicles: from complex to individual.
    Will the tank formation manage to crawl to the finish of its combat mission in the presence of so many high-precision anti-tank destruction units?

    You probably have a poor idea of ​​the concept of a tank as such.
    A tank is essentially an artillery cannon covered by armor. And if you can’t put a conventional gun forward for direct fire (they shoot an artillery sniper), then the tank will do it without problems, it is designed for this. All these anti-tank weapons that are not covered by armor are destroyed without problems by ordinary infantry. The main thing is to correctly use the infantry and the tank and everything will be fine. (Infantry the main blow is tank support)

    I can imagine a tank almost as much as most: as a fleet vehicle for breaking through enemy defenses.
    Well, about helicopters + what do you have a word?

    Clear...
    And about helicopters can be found on the example of Syria.
    Our helicopters hardly fly there - the probability of destruction is very high. Mostly they shoot from afar. Up to 5 km of MANPADS infantry work very confidently.
    1. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 01
      0
      So the helicopter can shoot from a distance of more than 5 km.
  18. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 19 October 2018 10: 25
    +1
    Quote: Bull Terrier
    From what workshops to reduce?) From military or civilian? Caterpillars in three shifts are apparently doing some other plant? Sign multi-billion dollar contracts for new cars and cut people? Do not smack nonsense, it hurts.

    What time! A man lives there .. works on the spot .. and do you think it’s nonsense? And you lying on the couch for thousands of kilometers .. reading the official broadcasts ... sucking a sweet lollipop on the cheek ... unshakably confident in their innocence? (note, also some questions .. as in your opus) Do not be afraid of bedsores on the couch?
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 11: 07
      -6
      I can do it for tens of thousands of kilometers. Living there does not mean how the plant works. If you live in Moscow, this does not mean that you know the cuisine of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. To analyze the operation of the enterprise, it is enough to look at their financial documents, open tenders, communicate with their colleagues who serve in tank units throughout the country. So, unlike you, I am in this kitchen from the adoption of equipment at the factory, to its operation in the tail and mane half of my conscious life. Any more questions?
      1. Zloyxirurg
        Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 11: 52
        +2
        The talker you are bespontovy, with a model of behavior kremlebot and preacher of the policy of the great power of GDP. You’re only rubbing nonsense.
        Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? There is just about such low-skilled as you say, super-confident "smart guys".
        In short, the meaning of the concept is as follows - does not understand what he is and what he says and does stupid things, precisely because he is.
        The vicious circle of the metacognitive dissonance of personality, which can only be broken by outside interference.
        But it’s better to leave you as an instruction to others, because attempts by other personalities in this post, to objectively prove something to you, are useless.

        But you, as a regular paid Kremlin boat with RIA Novosti, are very diligently trying to answer everyone and everyone to every comment, reminding me of your existence as a dildo in an erotic massage parlor - it is usually there alone and is used for everyone.
        So you are - a plug for all holes.

        Of course, now you will try to make a wretched joke on the topic of how I know about a dildo in an erotic massage parlor and so on, but I even read it with pleasure, look in some form of inferiority, you will isolate a brown larva called "IAllYouKnow" ...

        And in essence - your chatter is all the more ridiculous, looking at all those "Potemkin villages" into which all the May, July and other calendar decrees are turning in our country.
        These are the same signs according to which ROSGUARD with our officers’s honor buys products 3 times more expensive than the official price.
        Of course, in response to this, you will again put aside the brown larva with the meaning of "Damned navalnok" and scream loudly - keep the traitor of the motherland bought by the USA !!! uuuuuu !!!

        Yes, here’s Anal current, the type of which I can’t stand, for I know where his legs grow from and that we can’t expect anything good from him.

        Yes, he only says and shows - the truth. And according to the well-known principle - ENEMY OF MY ENEMY = MY FRIEND!

        In order to clarify the situation even further, in my house the staircase inside was painted with paint, which is intended for painting and decorating exterior elements and facades.
        The paint is called - SURIK, made of lead and iron, and my 5-month-old son is forced to breathe this shit.
        Paint costs ATTENTION - 967 rubles per 20 liters in the retail market.
        At what price it went on government procurement, there is still a question, I’m blowing something in the region of 10-15k for this wretched bucket of poison.
        And after all this, you’ll be sitting here and proving with foam at the mouth that everything is fine in the country and everything is as it should in the defense industry?
        I advise you to look at the packaged face of Rogozin, who ruined the military-industrial complex and is now destroying the space industry.
        It has come to the point that manned flights break down due to theft and cuts in factories.
        Sit further on the couch and sing praises to your sponsors, or idols, who you have there.
        And then, just like the generation of people who lived in the 80s, wake up and look out the window once again into the country.
        1. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 05
          -4
          Many emotions, Surgeon. What are you, another steering wheel? Or do you have something to offer in return? Or "here he is, there is a humpback bridge. It is Putin's fault." Or were you still little in the 90s?
          1. Zloyxirurg
            Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 12: 14
            +2
            But you were not a little 90, smartest.
            But apparently I was in the same long line for vodka, in which your sidekick "companion" was standing with the drove "Bull Terrier" in this area.
            The result is obvious, a mountain of sofa 3.14 dabolov like you.
            Instead of Tolkien fantasy novels, you should write about the happy life of grandmothers with a fish tail sticking out of a bag.

            Don’t worry about my emotions, worry about where you will get when the thunder strikes and our peasant finally crosses himself and picks up the forks.
            Well, of course not, where the TsAR-SATER can be to blame for, it’s not he who compared his former security guard to buy cabbage for MY and the OTHER PEOPLE OF THE BABY, 3 times more expensive to buy a daughter's dacha.
            Well, it’s not his mayor at all, he approved a tender for the purchase of lead paint at a cost of 960 r for the repair of entrances in apartment buildings.
            No, no, no, God forbid me, KING HOLY HOLY HOLY !!!!
        2. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 12: 14
          -5
          What was that?) I answered the question about the sofa, I can’t even decipher the rest of my thoughts)))))
          1. Zloyxirurg
            Zloyxirurg 19 October 2018 12: 17
            +1
            How did you answer interestingly? admitted that sitting on the couch? so we knew it without you, the rest is empty words, equal to the ringing of bells in your pants.
            For this is not called eggs, they can only be in real men.
            I do not think you belong to them, for you are trying to ennoble the traitors of thieves and enemies of the people.
            1. Bull Terrier
              Bull Terrier 19 October 2018 12: 22
              -5
              Do you mean to be rude?) I don’t poke complaints, but to answer is to be rude to strangers is an extremely bad thing. Everything else is either drunk nonsense, or an infant fuse. This and that is excusable Razik) I do not protect anyone. You confused me with someone)) ₽
              1. 2329 Carpenter
                2329 Carpenter 19 October 2018 12: 32
                -2
                Not ... Well, he writes correctly - in a stylistic sense. Advises over ... Hamit: here 80% are rude. It’s time to get used to it. Let rude! It’s not for us to see this fight — these are windmills.
                It's just that a person is offended by something ... Maybe something has not grown together today, maybe from an early insult ...
                Let him write what he wants.
  19. Radikal
    Radikal 19 October 2018 13: 32
    +2
    Р РѕСЃСЃРёР№СЃРєСѓСЋ "РђСЂРјР ° ту" догонять Р ± удем РґРѕР »РіРѕ. РќР ° Р — Р ° РїР ° РґРµ РїСЂРёР · РЅР ° Р »РёСЃСЊ
    Why catch up with her. if she doesn't "go" anywhere? sad
    1. Slinqshot
      Slinqshot 19 October 2018 14: 20
      0
      Well rides in parades
  20. Radikal
    Radikal 19 October 2018 16: 06
    0
    Quote: Slinqshot
    Well rides in parades

    Well, maybe in parades ... wassat
  21. APASUS
    APASUS 19 October 2018 17: 23
    0
    If the MO would buy Armata in the amount of at least 200 pieces, then it would be possible to catch up. But for now there is nothing to catch up. The Black Eagle is standing still and will stand, and in those days the car was just a breakthrough
  22. Penzyac
    Penzyac 19 October 2018 18: 53
    0
    Quote: Zloyxirurg
    The 90s were created by people like you who, in the 80s, instead of working, stood in lines for vodka. People like you have pissed off a great country ...

    The 90s were created by those who never worked, who, through their greed, laziness, incompetence and unwillingness to answer for anything, created the very lines in the 80s, who in the same 80s told the people about labor exploits and the triumph of communism! And the people then worked, and before that they worked, and now they are working, and will always work ...