Military Review

Would the Kursk sailors be saved today?

141
More than 18 years have passed since the tragedy with the Kursk nuclear submarine in the Barents Sea, but many questions remain relevant for a number of reasons. And often relevant with a negative sign. So, on the eve of the material published on the portal FLOT.com, which is dedicated to the state naval segment for the rescue of submariners in critical situations. The material refers the reader to the events of 2000, when the Russian Navy actually had no means to rescue the crew members of the Kursk, after the explosion, which was at a depth of more than 100 meters.


В an article by Dmitry Zhavoronkov it is said that the increased intensity of naval exercises and cruises of ships (including submarines) of the Russian Navy is still not sufficiently supported by the availability of means required for the rescue of the submarine crews.

It is noted that the development of rescue operations in relation to conditionally emergency submarines by divers of the Russian Navy was practiced at depths up to 60 m, moreover, recently (the data of the mentioned resource), the depth was reduced. Perhaps due to the operation of normobaric costumes HS-1200, designed for immersion depth is up to 60 m.

An example of the use of the Alagez search and rescue vehicle (project 537) is given. During the March training sessions, the ship engaged the deep-sea rescue device AC-30, which discovered the emergency submarine mock-up at 80 depth. No rescue divers were reported to dive to this depth.

In the material referring to military experts, it is noted that these are not the depths that can guarantee a well-adjusted work to rescue the crew of submarines.

The situation is helped to improve the rescue ship of the ocean class "Igor Belousov" with a serious set of technical means for deep-sea rescue. In particular, the “Igor Belousov” has on board a deep-sea diving complex GVK-450, which occupies one fifth of the ship and is designed for 120 seats. The device (created by JSC Tetis Pro) is 5 residential pressure chambers that can accommodate 60 submariners with emergency submarines.

Would the Kursk sailors be saved today?


From the material of Denis Emelyantsev, the head project of JSC "Tetis Pro":
In residential pressure chambers of the deep-sea diving complex is quite comfortable. Each diver has a separate berth, which can be separated from the rest of the compartment volume with a curtain. The bed has a bedside lamp, headphones for listening to music, a shelf for books and personal items. In the living compartments a lavatory has been allocated with all household amenities, including a hot shower that is so necessary after leaving the water. For divers inside the compartments of the pressure chambers, there is a seating area with a table at which they eat. Hot food is given to them outside through a special gateway, and dirty dishes are sent back through it. Even TVs are provided in the compartments.




Also the ship equipment is an underwater bell for work at a depth of up to 450 m with the above-mentioned normobaric costumes HS-1200. Plus, the “Igor Belousov” in the rescue arsenal - deep-sea “Bester-1” of the 18271 project with a working depth of diving to 700 (according to other data - to 720) meters. The device has a docking (with emergency exit submarine) camera, and is able to simultaneously evacuate the submariner's 22.

The ship “Igor Belousov” is part of the 79 squadron of the rescue fleet of the Pacific Fleet.

For all the fleets of the country, it is obviously necessary to increase such (modern) search and rescue ships that could promptly take part in the evacuation of submariners in the event of an emergency situation.

If the same GVK-450 were in service with the Russian fleet (Federation Council of the Russian Navy) in 2000, for obvious reasons, at least some of the Kursk sailors were saved. But today it makes no sense to say “if”, but it makes sense to ask the question of how fully equipped the modern Russian Navy has the technical means to conduct timely search and rescue evacuation activities.
Photos used:
http://www.tetis-pro.ru
141 comment
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  1. KBaHT_BpeMeHu
    KBaHT_BpeMeHu 18 October 2018 10: 25
    +15
    Would the Kursk sailors be saved today?

    For an accurate answer, you must first understand exactly what happened!
    1. Teberii
      Teberii 18 October 2018 10: 34
      +3
      All the same, measures must be taken, and most importantly, so that such tragedies are not repeated.
      1. KBaHT_BpeMeHu
        KBaHT_BpeMeHu 18 October 2018 10: 39
        +2
        Yes, it’s clear who will argue with this, it’s just difficult to take measures without knowing why.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 18 October 2018 11: 06
          +2
          Quote: KBaHT_BpeMeHu
          For an accurate answer, you must first understand exactly what happened!

          This question was asked to Putin. I even remember that he answered.

          GVK-450 deep-sea diving complex

          It consists entirely of English components, our assembly. There was some kind of troubled story and this complex was purchased instead of a purely Russian development. Now, sanctions have been announced to us, how will we repair the GVK-450 complex in case of what?
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 18 October 2018 11: 39
            -4
            Quote: Stas157
            This question was asked to Putin. I even remember that he answered.

            I wonder what else he could say when there was practically no information.
            What did he lie to?
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 18 October 2018 11: 49
              +7
              Quote: LSA57
              I wonder what else he could say when there was practically no information.
              What did he lie to?

              That is, it turns out all the people are outraged by this phrase in vain ?? This is not what Putin was asked about! Everyone already knew that "she was drowned." The question was, what happened to the boat (really)? And the answer is at the level of bullying!
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 18 October 2018 11: 54
                -4
                Quote: Stas157
                The question was what happened to the boat?

                didn't she drown?
                I repeat again, there was practically NO information then. he had to lie ????
                all people are outraged by this phrase

                are you already speaking on behalf of "all the people"? ate the wrong thing?
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 18 October 2018 11: 59
                  +8
                  Quote: LSA57
                  didn't she drown?

                  Are you pretending this hour or are you serious? A different answer was expected from Putin. Not everyone knows the event, but because of what it happened. Putin turned to trolling instead. According to his logic, the fact that "she drowned" explains everything! Like it's okay that she took it and drowned.
                  Quote: LSA57
                  are you already speaking on behalf of "all the people"? ate the wrong thing?

                  Now here you are. Well, who does not know this catch phrase, poured in granite! Is it just you?
                  1. LSA57
                    LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 04
                    -2
                    Quote: Stas157
                    Another answer was expected from Putin.

                    WHAT ???????
                    I repeat the hundredth time !!!!!! there was still no information !!!!! Remember what Popov said. remember what other admirals said !!!!
                    NO ONE. NOTHING. NOT. KNEW !!!!
                    Now here you are.

                    really? Well then, so that heights are no longer trolls, do not speak on behalf of the whole people
                    1. Vlad 62
                      Vlad 62 18 October 2018 12: 20
                      +6
                      Well yes. Two months is not a period to find out about the reason for the loss of the nuclear submarine. You can also answer about the IL-20. He fell and pulled his forehead from ear to ear. What happened to the visitors of the Zimnyaya Vishnya shopping center? Well, you know ....
                      1. LSA57
                        LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: Vlad 62
                        Two months is not a deadline to find out about the cause of the death of the nuclear submarines.

                        and now, after 18 years, no one really knows !!!!!!!
                        they didn’t lift the boat, nobody visited inside !!!! how can I say WHAT happened ????
                        are you fooling around
                        well, the car won't start. without opening the hood, you can determine WHY it does not start ??????
                        But they come up to you and ask what’s wrong with the car? your answer??????
                      2. Vlad 62
                        Vlad 62 18 October 2018 12: 44
                        +3
                        and now, after 18 years, no one really knows !!!!!!!

                        Know and hide. Truth is unnecessary to the top, otherwise all replayers in the eyes of the public will lose their image of the country's steepest savior and the main knocker.
                        they didn’t lift the boat, nobody visited inside !!!!

                        The act of completing the operation of lifting, transporting and docking the Kursk nuclear submarine was signed by the leadership of FSUE TsKB MT Rubin and Mammut Transport Antilless N.V. October 22, 2001.
                        The cost of the work was estimated at 65-130 million US dollars.
                      3. LSA57
                        LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Vlad 62
                        Know and hide.

                        so we learned when the boat was docked
                        The act of completing the operation of lifting, transporting and docking the Kursk nuclear submarine was signed by the leadership of FSUE TsKB MT Rubin and Mammut Transport Antilless N.V. October 22, 2001.
                        The cost of the work was estimated at 65-130 million US dollars.

                        and this is from which side of the bake? belay
                      4. LSA57
                        LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: Vlad 62
                        The act of completing the operation of lifting, transporting and docking the Kursk nuclear submarine was signed by the leadership of FSUE TsKB MT Rubin and Mammut Transport Antilless N.V. October 22, 2001.
                        The cost of the work was estimated at 65-130 million US dollars.

                        if you turned your question to the price of an operation, I have nothing to speak with you. at your leisure, answer yourself my question about the car
                        I will not answer you anymore.
                        minus until you turn blue
                      5. Vlad 62
                        Vlad 62 18 October 2018 13: 01
                        +3
                        First did not minus.
                        Secondly This is from the wiki.
                        Thirdly, I did not focus on value. Hooked on how it hooked.
                        Fourth This submarine is not a car in your garage. The real reasons were known almost immediately.
                        Fifth, Do not answer and do not be offended.
                      6. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 13: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Vlad 62
                        The real reasons were known almost immediately.

                        and they should have been voiced by EVERYTHING ?!
                      7. Vlad 62
                        Vlad 62 19 October 2018 09: 56
                        +1
                        If a person holds this position in order to make the country strong in all aspects of its life, then he had to tell the truth, bitter, terrible, but the truth. Based on the various information that is on the open spaces of the hated Internet, I can conclude that the Kursk was sunk by the Americans due to an accidental coincidence of fatal circumstances. Having told the truth, naturally, relations with the United States would have escalated to the limit with all that it implies. Well, if a person was appointed as a Gauleiter in the occupied territory after the defeat in the Cold War, then he had to say what he said, while certainly showing all his 32 bread slicers.
                    2. Stas157
                      Stas157 18 October 2018 12: 21
                      +5
                      Quote: LSA57
                      no information yet !!!!!

                      He did not say that. Although he could. And no one would have said it, then didn’t resent it. Instead, he said what he said.
                      ... Or maybe he didn’t want to explain anything?
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      but do not tell me what he had to say ?!

                      Quote: LSA57
                      Yes, I must lie

                      To say as it is is the truth. (I know, I don’t know, we are sorting out some details ...) It was a very sore point for the country and relatives - everyone was waiting for a serious reaction from Putin, some news ... But, not this trolling!
                      ... Well, friends, you give straight! As children, I have to explain elementary things to you.
                      1. LSA57
                        LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Stas157
                        everyone was waiting for a serious reaction from Putin, some news ...

                        Well, if the news is not !!!! he had to lie ??? now and then no one knows the whole truth. what to say about those times
                        He did not say that. Although he could.

                        tell me you know a lot of presidents who say "don't know"
                        also remember how long he was president
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Stas157
                        To say as it is is the truth.

                        Are you seriously?!!!
                        actually a combat submarine drowned, not an air mattress in the pool
                      3. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 18 October 2018 17: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Quote: Stas157
                        To say as it is is the truth.

                        Are you seriously?!!!
                        actually drowned combat a submarine, not an air mattress in the pool

                        Here it is NEXTLY BATTLE! because we turn on the head
                        1) if the submariners themselves are to blame, then a confession of their guilt: they will discredit their fleet in the eyes of the citizens of the Russian Federation, show the weakness of the Russian Navy that will worsen our position in the geopolitical arena
                        2) if the designers are to blame, the recognition of their guilt will lead to the same geopolitical problems
                        3) if the Americans \ British \\ substitute_nuzhnoe are to blame, then this is even more hemorrhoids because it can at least be used to remove the current government by simply heating up the mass of shit in the media on the topic of "otvetki", and then point out the "inaction" of the current government.
                        So in my opinion Putin, having left the topic, made the most reasonable choice.
                    3. kakvastam
                      kakvastam 18 October 2018 14: 11
                      0
                      Quote: LSA57
                      really? Well then, so that heights are no longer trolls, do not speak on behalf of the whole people

                      You are too zealous in your loyalty, than only reinforce the negative effect.
                      Mr. Putin really has a tendency to make unsuccessful statements, and the worst part is that in a situation where a decent person would apologize, management attracts demagogues like you to declare black as white as possible.
                    4. Warrior2015
                      Warrior2015 20 October 2018 16: 10
                      0
                      Quote: LSA57
                      I repeat the hundredth time !!!!!! there was still no information !!!!! Remember what Popov said. remember what other admirals said !!!!
                      NO ONE. NOTHING. NOT. KNEW !!!!

                      I will answer simply. Those in power knew everything. Do you think the director of the CIA immediately and urgently just came to Moscow? About the visit and its goals for some reason then modestly kept silent then ...

                      And so - they refused to deliver the Mir apparatuses, and they refused Norwegian help - why is that? like there are fewer witnesses ... so our guys died ..
                  2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 06
                    -1
                    but do not tell me what he had to say ?!
                    1. LSA57
                      LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 11
                      +2
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      but do not tell me what he had to say ?!

                      Yes, probably I should lie. and then his eyes would be pricked with this lie
                      1. Flatter
                        Flatter 18 October 2018 12: 48
                        +1
                        The answer - "we understand" would be quite correct. The answer - "she drowned" is the worst possible, implies hiding information.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 13: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: Flatter
                        involves hiding information.

                        in fact, an accident at ANY military facility implies that infa is not for everyone
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                      1. LSA57
                        LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Vlad 62
                        Well, certainly call the mothers and wives of the dead submariners hired

                        in general, the conversation is about his answer to the question of what happened to the "Kursk".
                        about wives and mothers a separate conversation
                      2. Vlad 62
                        Vlad 62 18 October 2018 12: 53
                        +3
                        The conversation is about his answers, which clearly show how he relates to his people. His boorish "She drowned", and an insult to women in mourning, links of one chain that originates in the very personality of this .... If he treated them that way, then he does not consider the rest of the population for dust.
              2. kuz363
                kuz363 18 October 2018 16: 49
                +1
                The people have a short memory. Only for this phrase he could not be elected president again! And since the Russian people are miserable. without a memory of the dead, they hung a king for a quarter of a century. Who made rich friends.
        2. Faceless
          Faceless 18 October 2018 11: 49
          +4
          Gentlemen, with all due respect, you are not quite right.

          Measures must be able to be taken - for the evacuation of people with a submarine lying at a depth. How she ended up there and why she cannot emerge herself is a different matter. And these aspects should not be confused.

          The main answer to the first call is the Igor Belousov vessel. Its construction is a great success in this area. of course, given that we have 4 fleets and one flotilla, I would like to have 8 more such ships (and at the same time 8 AUG, etc.), but let's go down from heaven to earth: in our reality - thank you for there is at least one.

          In addition, I believe that the MO understands a similar need, and therefore in the medium term we will see several more such vessels.

          As for the second aspect and counteraction to it ... Indeed, it is difficult to analyze, having only a lot of indirect and very fragmentary data. A torpedo explosion is a plausible version, but is that why it happened? ..

          And too quickly another submarine went overseas for unplanned repairs. However, this is only speculation and speculation. And we will learn the truth all the other years after 57 ...
      2. kjhg
        kjhg 18 October 2018 11: 39
        +5
        Quote: Teberii
        All the same, measures must be taken, and most importantly, so that such tragedies are not repeated.

        It's hard to argue with that. But in the 18 years after the tragedy, almost nothing has been done for this. There was no money? Not true. When oil cost more than a hundred dollars, the budget was inundated with surplus money. They were spent right and left on all kinds of searchlights. Only the Olympics with the World Cup in terms of cost pull on the entire program for the rearmament of the Navy 2010-2020. And how many more cuts were there for all sorts of unnecessary programs? Do not count. This means that the priorities of the country's leadership are different. The lives of sailors and soldiers cost exactly the same as in 2000. Unless today it is customary to award the dead with the titles of Heroes of Russia. And how I would like to be awarded the creators and manufacturers of systems that save the lives of soldiers from death!
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 18 October 2018 12: 20
          0
          Quote: kjhg
          Only the Olympics with the World Cup in terms of cost pull on the entire program for the rearmament of the Navy 2010-2020

          Do you know that the World Cup has already brought in income of about a billion rubles? and this is just the beginning. is it a searchlight?
          https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3689386
          1. kuz363
            kuz363 18 October 2018 16: 50
            +1
            And how much did you spend ???
            1. PSih2097
              PSih2097 18 October 2018 19: 24
              0
              Quote: kuz363
              And how much did you spend ???

              in the region of 13 - 13,2 billion. $, you can translate into rubles yourself ...
    2. KLV2018
      KLV2018 18 October 2018 12: 01
      0
      Quote: KBaHT_BpeMeHu
      Would the Kursk sailors be saved today?

      For an accurate answer, you must first understand exactly what happened!

      would save, that’s the question?
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 07
        +2
        Quote: KLV2018
        would save, that’s the question?

        but for you need to know what happened
        cynical, but perhaps in some conditions they wouldn’t
        1. KLV2018
          KLV2018 18 October 2018 12: 11
          -1
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          Quote: KLV2018
          would save, that’s the question?

          but for you need to know what happened
          cynical, but perhaps in some conditions they wouldn’t

          I also meant it.
    3. REEKMAN
      REEKMAN 18 October 2018 15: 15
      0
      And even then, the subjugation of this issue would be present to a large extent
    4. REEKMAN
      REEKMAN 18 October 2018 15: 16
      0
      Quote: KBaHT_BpeMeHu
      Would the Kursk sailors be saved today?

      For an accurate answer, you must first understand exactly what happened!

      And even then, the subjugation of this issue would be present to a large extent.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Buffet
    Buffet 18 October 2018 10: 27
    +2
    Somewhere I met the opinion of foreign experts on the Navy, who said that the means of rescuing the Russian Navy after the Kursk tragedy had become one of the best in the world.
  4. Sailor
    Sailor 18 October 2018 10: 30
    0
    I think that if then the technique was much better than the one mentioned in the article, they would still not have been saved, or rather, they would not have been saved.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 October 2018 10: 33
      +2
      Quote: Sailor
      I think that if then the technique was much better than the one mentioned in the article, they would still not have been saved, or rather, they would not have been saved.

      The same garbage is spinning in my head! We will not destroy the mess in the fleet!
      1. mvg
        mvg 18 October 2018 13: 18
        0
        We will not destroy the mess in the fleet!

        It's not a mess. We would like to save, we would accept the help of the Norwegians or small-shavens ... and so, they refused to everyone, and we ourselves did not save .. Apparently we didn’t really want to. Not for nothing, the nose was cut off under water.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 13: 54
          0
          Quote: mvg
          would accept the help of the Norwegians or the little shaves ...

          first grade second quarter, do you know the cause of death ?!
          1. water
            water 18 October 2018 21: 31
            0
            The causes of the disaster are dealt with after saving people. But people from the 9-th compartment were not saved due to the lack of submarine rescue vessels on the SF. At present, the situation on the Federation Council in this respect has not changed, and therefore, now, they would not have saved it.
            As for the Norwegians and small shavens, there was also nothing to do with their LR-5 rescue apparatus. We needed a rescue bell moving along the guide wire, but it was not there. By the way, they made the right conclusions from this, and by now they are armed with deep-sea rescue vehicles "LR-7" and "Nemo" significantly superior to our "Besters" of all modifications both in terms of power and maneuverability, and in addition to them , the McKenna rescue bell is always on standby - this is the one that is on the guide wire.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 18 October 2018 10: 44
      0
      Quote: Sailor
      they wouldn't have saved them anyway, or rather they wouldn't have saved them
      That is, the whole question, whether they were needed, as living witnesses ... The theme is bitter and muddy, in September 2000, V.V. Putin, live, responding to a question from a CNN host, Larry King: “What happened to the submarine?”, Said with a smile, “She drowned.” There are different versions, including the one where the Americans sank the boat. The attack occurred when the American submarines 2, Toledo and Memphis, were secretively tracking the Kursk submarine. Then "Toledo" accidentally collided with the "Kursk", while the Russian submarine opened the covers of its torpedo tubes, which resulted in an attack from the "Memphis". The real reason for the sinking of the Kursk was hidden by a diplomatic agreement between the then presidents of the two countries, Bill Clinton and Vladimir Putin. The deal included the cancellation of Russian debt in the amount of $ 10 billion.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 18 October 2018 10: 47
        +5
        Quote: Per se.
        That's it

        what Sergey, conspiracy theory is certainly an interesting thing, BUT! But far from reality! You can’t even imagine how much!
      2. dvina71
        dvina71 18 October 2018 10: 52
        +8
        Quote: Per se.
        That is, the whole question, whether they were needed as living witnesses ...

        You already got it ... really .. There is no Russia on the 1999 USA list to write off debt. Russia's debt for 2001 was 3.5 billion to the United States. Which 10? Where did you get this?
        A boat of this size cannot be drowned by one torpedo, much less damage to Krusk. The torpedo version is humiliating for the sailors of the Northern Fleet. In the first ... in the training zone (legend, search for enemy planes), they slap TWO enemy planes, and the Kursk crew slap and pl and launch on their own .. not just slammed., But ignored and not trying leave to dodge the torpedo and release the LC ..
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 18 October 2018 11: 06
          +4
          Gennady, I did not issue a verdict, but only voiced one of the versions that was present in the media, according to which the documentary was filmed, with the opinions of experts. As for the debt itself, I don’t think that it is 3,5 or 10 billion that are fundamental for the topic. The fact that "the topic is humiliating" for the sailors of the Northern Fleet, in my opinion, was so much more humiliating to surrender the Soviet Union and pick up capitalism from the dustbin of history, to live now according to the rules of the masters of this world system.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 17
            +3
            Quote: Per se.
            it was much more humiliating to surrender the Soviet Union and pick up capitalism from the dustbin of history, to live now according to the rules of the owners of this world system.

            And where does the sailors of the Federation Council?
            1. novel66
              novel66 18 October 2018 11: 32
              0
              someone must be to blame
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 39
                +1
                Quote: novel xnumx
                someone must be to blame

                Wow! But what about? The guilty ones are soon found!
            2. Per se.
              Per se. 18 October 2018 11: 37
              +5
              Quote: Serg65
              And where does the sailors of the Federation Council?
              And what does the "humiliation" of the sailors have to do with it? The length of the Kursk is greater than the depth at which the submarine sank, no one was rescued, this is not humiliating, the fleet was cut on "needles", the ships were sold, it is not humiliating, it is not humiliating for oneself to build ships for many years ... The matter is still murky and the truth was not found, not humiliating. I spoke in the commentary, nothing more, but I love the Navy and Russia no less than yours.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 52
                +3
                Quote: Per se.
                the fleet and Russia are no less than yours I love.

                Sergei, I asked you about how sideways sailors to the collapse of the USSR?
                Quote: Per se.
                The length of the Kursk is greater than the depth at which the boat sank, no one was saved, this is not humiliating

                This is really humiliating! It is humiliating that the fleet with the departure of Gorshkov began to be commanded not by the worthy, but by close people! It’s humiliating that you are being kept and told by fables about mythical Americans! And the worst thing (I wrote about this below) is that the naval mess is indestructible! And this mess arose in the 1919 year, when the first Soviet navigator Zheleznyak went to Odessa, and went to Kherson!
                Quote: Per se.
                the fleet was cut on "needles", the ships were sold, not humiliating

                In those days, not only the fleet was cut into needles, but the whole country!
                Quote: Per se.
                build ships for yourself for many years, not humiliating

                For me personally it’s not humiliating! Because unlike your demagoguery, I am aware of the complexity ... not even of construction, but of the organization of production of the shipbuilding industry!
                1. sogdy
                  sogdy 18 October 2018 11: 55
                  -2
                  Do not feed the troll. Minus one.
                2. Per se.
                  Per se. 18 October 2018 12: 20
                  +2
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Sergei, I asked you about how sideways sailors to the collapse of the USSR?
                  In no way, in any way, does not refer to the sailors of our Federation Council, but, with regard to the organization of the production of the shipbuilding industry, even if you answer the "demagoguery". To rejoice in "Rooks", to receive corvettes and diesel engines in ten years is not humiliating, well, to each his own. Of course, everything in the country is interconnected, education, healthcare, science, industry, and I am sorry for the potential that has been lost. You can console yourself that it has become better than under Yeltsin, yes, of course. On this we will part.
              2. dvina71
                dvina71 18 October 2018 12: 12
                +1
                Quote: Per se.
                And what does the "humiliation" of the sailors have to do with it?

                Despite the fact that Kursk and the ships of the Northern Fleet did not just go to sea then. They were at the exercises, such events are accompanied by security measures, including in relation to the facilities of the "probable friend" ..
                According to the French version, they scored for these events .. probably the crews of surface ships were derelict and punctured .. yes, and the Kursk crew was in the same condition .. they ignored the enemy’s plaque in the strike position, ignored the launch by themselves ...
                Quote: Per se.
                The length of the Kursk is greater than the depth at which the boat sank, no one was saved

                The rescue capsule..emnip after 14 hours already tried to rest on it, but could not equalize the pressure .. Now the fleet has cameras that do not have to equalize the pressure. To open the gateway.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 18 October 2018 12: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: dvina71
                  According to the French version, these events were scored

                  Nah, the French aren't being driven, come on American !!!
                  Quote: dvina71
                  probably the surface crews were buoyant and chopped up .. yes, and the Kursk crew was in the same condition .. they ignored the enemy pl at the strike position, ignored the launch by themselves ..

                  You see how the American version sounds great! Conclusion ... the Russians are all drunks and are sleeping with medics !!!!!
                2. Per se.
                  Per se. 18 October 2018 19: 37
                  0
                  Quote: dvina71
                  Given that Kursk and the ships of the Federation Council did not just come out to sea then.
                  That's right, Gennady. However, it is well known that during the exercise there are always overt and secret observers from the "potential enemy". Toledo and Memphis are no exception. You found a negative, "humiliation" for our sailors in the version with the guilt in the death of our boat on the US submariners. I didn't want to touch the topic anymore, but I will answer, the so-called official version, where the best crew had a "torpedo exploded", the better? Gennady Petrovich Lyachin, the commander of the Kursk, received the Hero of Russia during the NATO aggression against Yugoslavia, when the Kursk secretly passed Gibraltar, entering the Mediterranean Sea, and it was the commander of Memphis who lost it then, who was tending our boat. Such people and "slovenliness", is it not a shame to crush our men, according to the official version with a torpedo? Maybe even cooler, Admiral Popov, they say, "got drunk" on "Peter the Great", after they decided to shoot, and, drowning their boat, hit the "Kursk"? How does this version not dishonor the fleet? And lastly, our commander-in-chief, going to a briefing or any conversation, interview, should not speak with a smile, "She drowned" ... There was time to prepare, what they might ask, it turned out, as if, indeed, everything had already been paid for and hushed up .. This is what we are talking about, from which it sucks.
                  1. dvina71
                    dvina71 18 October 2018 21: 54
                    +1
                    Quote: Per se.
                    I didn't want to touch the topic anymore, but I will answer, the so-called official version, where the best crew had a "torpedo exploded", the better?

                    The reason for the tragedy is the technical condition of the boat.
                    Anything could be the reason ..
                    After the explosion

                    In good condition
          2. dvina71
            dvina71 18 October 2018 11: 29
            +5
            Quote: Per se.
            but only voiced one of the versions

            This is an enemy version .., not supported by either facts or the real state of affairs at that time. In short, the tragedy of Kursk is the legacy of "democratic power" .. Do you know what salary capraz had in 1997 and how long he waited for it? Survived at the expense of rations and salaries of wives .. What makes you think that the maintenance of military equipment was allocated more funds?
            You can blame it on GDP as much as you like, but the first thing he did was to direct all available means to modernize the strategic nuclear forces (the whole triad) .., the only thing that could protect us then.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 58
              +2
              Quote: dvina71
              In brief, the tragedy of Kursk is the legacy of "democratic power"

              And the accident K-8, K-27, K-219, K-278, K-19 .... whose legacy is this ????
              Quote: dvina71
              Do you know what zp was at kapraz in 1997 and how much did he wait for her?

              So what? Because of this, he loved his homeland less?
              Quote: dvina71
              They survived at the expense of rations and wives. Why did you get the idea that more funds were allocated for the maintenance of military equipment?

              But this is the true truth and a big plus from me !!!!!
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 18 October 2018 12: 14
                0
                Quote: Serg65
                And the accident K-8, K-27, K-219, K-278, K-19 .... whose legacy is this ????

                It's about Kursk .. and this tragedy is on the conscience of EBN. It was on his orders that the boat was accepted into the fleet, and the military did not want to ..
    3. water
      water 18 October 2018 21: 45
      0
      I guess you are wrong. Because if the rescue vessels of the Project 527 submarine had not been cut at the Northern Fleet, then one of them would certainly have been part of the forces taking part in the exercises. Therefore, people from the 9th compartment would have been taken out on the first day. The depth to the Kursk's coaming platform was only 75 meters.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. geniy
    geniy 18 October 2018 10: 36
    -10
    A general misunderstanding of how the crew of Kursk perished .. In fact, only the first 3 compartments were flooded, but even the 4th kept complete tightness! Because when Kursk was docked, the water from the fourth compartment did not want to pour out. This means that there were no holes in either his bow bulkhead or the skin of the sturdy hull of the fourth and all subsequent compartments. And the Kursk submariners remained conscious for at least 3 days, and then their oxygen concentration decreased and they fell asleep - that is, they fell into suspended animation, in which energy and oxygen consumption are reduced by a thousand times. They could probably remain alive in their sleep state for several months. But the stupid admirals ordered to cut holes in the rugged Kursk case and drowned everyone.
    And moreover, there was no fire at all during their life. The fact is that when a hole is cut through a PC, then water at a pressure of 10 atmospheres compresses the air - and it heats up just like in the cylinders of a diesel engine - up to 300 degrees, that is why a short-time fire sequentially flashed in each compartment. And if not for these thoughtless actions by order of the Russian admirals, then most of the sailors of Kursk would be alive and well to this day.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 October 2018 10: 38
      +6
      Quote: geniy
      General misunderstanding

      Ufff! How tired I am of you !!!!
      1. geniy
        geniy 18 October 2018 10: 59
        -5
        But apparently you can’t object to the case?
        Do you really pierce your eyes?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 19
          +4
          What business? You have spun so many cases in two days that I’m even lost on what business to answer you!
          1. novel66
            novel66 18 October 2018 11: 34
            +2
            Serge! Well, you're not a submariner? How will you answer?
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 18 October 2018 12: 00
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              How will you answer?

              Seven clubs! wink
              1. novel66
                novel66 18 October 2018 12: 03
                -1
                seven ... cross ... masonic something
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 18 October 2018 12: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  masonic something

                  And then! I recently heard that the Masons are everywhere !!!
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 18 October 2018 12: 24
                    -1
                    and you Brute!!!
          2. geniy
            geniy 19 October 2018 10: 03
            0
            Serg65 (Sergey) Yesterday, 12:24
            What business? You have spun so many cases in two days that I’m even lost on what business to answer you!

            Yes, on any point!
            You cannot dispute that only the first 3 compartments of Kursk were flooded, and 4 and all subsequent ones remained dry! You cannot dispute that 4 and all subsequent ones had no holes or holes,
            You can’t dispute that Kursk’s divers remained alive for at least 3 days, and maybe much longer.
            You can’t dispute that the Russian admirals ordered the holes in the rugged Kursk case!
            You can’t dispute what exactly the Russian admirals drowned all of Kursk’s sailors!
            You cannot dispute that there was no fire during the lifetime of submariners inside Kursk.
        2. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 12
          -1
          Quote: geniy
          But apparently you can’t object to the case?

          You understand correctly! Of ordinary people all over the world, the only truth I know about the death of Kursk is I
          But how can you answer the case ?!
          only if so
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 20
        +3
        Quote: rudolff
        Hmm ... how did the water then get into the compartment if it is sealed?

        laughing Through the DUK, but how else is Rudolph ???
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. geniy
        geniy 18 October 2018 11: 42
        -1
        "... when Kursk was docked, the water from the fourth compartment did not want to pour out." Hmm ... how did the water get into the compartment if it is sealed? And if there is a "hole" in the upper part of the compartment? Well, for example, an open ventilation system valve?
        And when did the admirals order to make holes in a sturdy case?

        But you know nothing, or forgive me for being rude - pretend to be stupid? But I, unlike you, kept everything that happened then. And no matter how the admirals tried to keep secret, very much slipped into the press and on television. So I inform you for you personally and for all illiterates and those who do not remember: after the Norwegian divers flooded the ninth compartment. Note - the open hatch of the ninth compartment is a hole in the upper part of the hull, and water, as you should know from school, always flows from top to bottom.
        So, when the Norwegian divers arrived, the English divers and admirals immediately ordered them to do a lot of work: firstly, to examine the entire Kursk, secondly, to cut off bent sliding devices, thirdly, to cut a round neckline in the place where the strange hole was located, and fourthly, cut a hole into the fourth compartment from above, so that Russian divers (which many fools allegedly did not exist at all. And as soon as the British cut the hole, the water immediately flooded the fourth compartment, and killed everyone the sailors sleeping in suspended animation in the fourth compartment (and in the fifth, fifth encore and eighth they were still alive, but sleeping). And immediately after flooding the fourth compartment with water, Russian divers descended into it and began to get secret documents from safes.
        And here is a hole in the upper part of the fourth compartment, but as all smart people understand - water does not flow up by itself! And when Kursk was docked, the water from the fourth compartment did not want to flow out, and there were no holes in the lower part of the compartment. ! And it had to be pumped out!
        And then - already in October, in the same way English divers cut holes in the fifth, fifth bis, seventh and eighth compartments, and drowned all the sleeping sailors of Kursk there.
        Put the cons - bet! And it’s true that it hurts your eyes!
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 11: 53
          +3
          Quote: geniy
          And then - already in October, in the same way English divers cut holes in the fifth, fifth bis, seventh and eighth compartments, and drowned all the sleeping sailors of Kursk there.
          Put the cons - bet! And it’s true that it hurts your eyes!

          you don’t need to put down minuses, but call a special brigade, although I’ll also stick a minus
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 18 October 2018 12: 47
            +2
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            although I’ll stick it too

            And here I’ll put a plus! For a long time I didn’t laugh like that !!! good drinks
        2. bukhach
          bukhach 19 October 2018 06: 43
          +1
          You are sick...
    3. Comrade Beria
      Comrade Beria 18 October 2018 11: 17
      +3
      Quote: geniy
      water at a pressure of 10 atmospheres compresses the air - and it heats up just like in the cylinders of a diesel engine - up to 300 degrees

      With such a nickname and make such statements. belay

      Well, firstly, the necessary pressure for the outbreak of the fuel mixture in the cylinders of a diesel engine is above 20 kg / cm2.
      Secondly, it is achieved in a short period of time, otherwise the amount of heat from air compression will be less than the amount of heat removed from the cylinder.
      And thirdly, the seawater filling the compartment is a good heat sink.
      1. novel66
        novel66 18 October 2018 11: 35
        +6
        and here it’s not necessary to check marine romance with physics!
      2. geniy
        geniy 18 October 2018 11: 58
        -2
        Well, firstly, the necessary pressure for the outbreak of the fuel mixture in the cylinders of a diesel engine is above 20 kg / cm2.

        Well, firstly, the self-flash pressure is much lower - about 11-15 atmospheres, but it depends on the conditions! Because with bad gasoline, what was the degree of compression in the cylinders of gasoline engines at the beginning of the twentieth century at the beginning of the twentieth century was only 3 - because with an increase in the degree of compression, detonation occurred - self-ignition of the fuel. But it depends a lot on the conditions. But the fact is that in Kursk, like in any submarine, there were devices for air regeneration - the flash point of which is probably much lower than that of gasoline or diesel fuel. So they lit up at temperatures and air pressures significantly lower than in the cylinders of a diesel engine.
        Secondly, it is achieved in a short period of time, otherwise the amount of heat from air compression will be less than the amount of heat removed from the cylinder.
        The amount of heat removed through the walls obeys the square-cube law, which you probably don’t know anything about, the fact is that the heat is removed through the area of ​​the walls (which, by the way, are insulated on the submarine, but unlike the engine cylinders, But the air volume in the compartment obeys the law of the cube - that is, it grows in the third degree.I am tired of explaining all this to illiterate people.
        And thirdly, the seawater filling the compartment is a good heat sink.

        Cold water, of course, is an excellent heat sink and heat sink, but the trouble for Kursk was that the water flowed quite calmly and stood as a mirror in the lower part of the compartment, the current that turned out was that there was not enough heat removal and the regeneration plates spontaneously ignited in all compartments, but not at all due to a fire caused by an alleged explosion that was not there.
        Put cons - bet. Do not forget your function to suppress the voice of reason. .
        1. Comrade Beria
          Comrade Beria 18 October 2018 13: 11
          +1
          Quote: geniy
          Do not forget your function to suppress the voice of reason.

          At least an alien.
    4. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 18 October 2018 11: 39
      0
      Bullshit ... they were not alive 72 hours .. alas ...
      1. geniy
        geniy 19 October 2018 09: 19
        0
        Andrey VOV (Andrey)
        Bullshit ... they were not alive 72 hours .. alas ...

        I apologize for the huge text, but it was not me who wrote it, but the famous submariner Alexander Pokrovsky. I quote from Picabu.ru
        \ "By 13 o'clock on August 12, twenty-three people gathered in the ninth compartment \".
        Where did this figure come from? Was the author present? Did the clock stop on your hand? On whose hand? Are there many such hands? The clock was with a date, they say, do not forget that 13.00 refers specifically to August 12?
        And then where did the figure of 19 hours come from? Where such confidence?
        It is very our state and everyone who is with it, I want it, the state, had nothing to do with it. 6-8 hours, you know, nothing could be done.
        This is all nonsense. They contradict themselves. Let's start in order.
        \ "Of all the compartments of the nuclear submarine, the ninth is the smallest in size. In the technical description, it is called that: aft compartment-shelter \".
        It’s not so small, anyway, the free volume is more than 200 cubic meters (now there is no description of all free volumes from the 6th to the 9th, but I will find them). Even if we accept that all 23 people immediately crowded in the 9th and didn’t move anywhere else (which I doubt very much, because for survivability it is necessary to examine all the compartments from the 6th to the 9th, which means that people went back and forth and the bulkhead doors weren’t constantly closed up), and while they were all not particularly worried, they could even reduce oxygen from 21 percent to 15 percent (when it would be worth equipping RDU), which is 12 cubic meters of oxygen in more than 20 hours, based on the calculation of each calmly consumed consumption of up to 25 liters of oxygen per hour.
        And if you want to reduce to 12 percent, then this is 30 hours of breathing, crowding everything in the 9th. But in fullness, sit in the 9th in the amount of 23 people and at the same time equip RDU? Why do they always want to introduce these guys to some kind of nonsense?
        Since they are talking about the roll-call of personnel at 13 and 15 hours, this means that they were not going to sit in the 9th. On the contrary, everyone was scheduled on a shift basis, each in his own compartment, and at a certain time (13 and 15) they gathered not only for roll call, but also for a report on the situation.
        Addition to Pokrovsky from me: according to my investigation, it also appears that the body of Lieutenant Kolesnikov and several other submariners was actually lifted from the 8th (turbine) compartment, and not from the 9th, as officials lie about it.
        That sounds like the truth. That is, people are free, as far as possible in the dark, with flashlights, walked between compartments. And this means that the gas composition of the air in all compartments was the same.
        In such conditions, the main thing is to establish a mode of existence that would not be very different from ordinary. What mode is it? Watches. People must be busy. It is necessary to monitor the presence of water in the hold, for bulkheads, for pressure and temperature in the compartment. We must finally knock around the clock, trying to establish a connection with the outside world. Break people into shifts, set the order of reports, and they will calm down, which will be indicated by the presence of glycogen in the blood, and they had it above the norm.
        There was no panic.
        About the fact that everyone had to wear insulation. I do not know what is meant by \ "insulation \" here. Apparently, the SGP is a special diving suit. And they put it on 6-8 hours after the explosion? Let me doubt it.
        What are the feed compartments? These are the reactor, turbine compartments and the 9th compartment.
        \ "Kursk \" before the tragedy to prepare for torpedo fire, which means that both reactors have been commissioned. They are at a capacity of at least 20 percent each. And then an explosion occurs. The AZ (reactor emergency protection) of both sides falls, the light goes out. The reactors are not cooled as usual. What happens to the temperature? She takes off. If the compensating lattice at this moment somehow goes up, then it's time to talk about a thermal explosion. The temperature in the reactor room can reach 100 degrees or more. Sauna. And in this sauna, when all the iron literally has a temperature of 100 degrees, the reactor must also be manually shut off. Special hold this trick is called \ "put on limit switches \". The people are transported for about an hour, because it hurts, the temperature is high.
        I think they shut off the reactor. But they are not enemies to themselves or to the rest of humanity. What happens to the reactor? If the reactors are cooled down for at least one day, then here they will cool down for at least two days.
        That is, the bulkhead of the reactor compartment for at least two days works like a good battery.
        In the sea, the turbine compartments during operation of both reactors have temperatures: in the lower room up to 55 degrees, in the upper - up to 45. The 9th compartment, the coolest in the stern, is up to 30 degrees.
        Why am I saying all this? But to what. For at least two days they did not need to be warmed. And so it is very warm from the cooling reactor, and therefore, if they were found in the SHP, then they put it on 3-4 days after the disaster, and not after 6-8 hours.
        And one more thing: it says here that by 15 o’clock Kolesnikov was already writing in the dark.
        Again I want to ask: what days?
        Emergency lights (two per compartment) are designed for 48 hours of continuous operation. From the 6th to the 9th compartment, you can collect as many as 8 pieces. Even if half of them do not work, then 4 pieces remain. Now the most important thing. What is it: \ "By the evening (August 12), oxygen starvation began to be felt in the compartment, and it was decided to charge the RDU with fresh regeneration plates \".
        To begin with: oxygen starvation is not felt at all. Any doctor with a three-year education will tell you this. When reduced to 12 percent oxygen in the compartment, a person can simply lose consciousness. Or maybe not lose.
        1. geniy
          geniy 19 October 2018 09: 25
          +1
          Alexander Pokrovsky (quote from Picabu.ru:
          In my autonomy, people sat for hours in the smoking room and smoked. They could not be expelled from there. The oxygen concentration there was less than 15 percent, because the oxygen device could not measure it, and the minimum that it can is 15 percent. So there they had it below that figure. The match did not light up, lit from cigarettes, from each other.
          And everyone felt wonderful. I drove them with a stick.
          Now back to the aft compartments. An oxygen installation (my department) in the sea is operating normally, providing 21-23 percent oxygen in the feed. Since there are usually few people in the feed (most of the time there are 2 people per compartment), the oxygen concentration there is traditionally high - up to 23. If you turn off the installation and catch the people (23 people) in the stern, then they will eat 1 percent per day. It is checked more than once. After how many days will they reach such a life that they want to equip RDU? Well? Will we do arithmetic?
          Yes! People from Rubin told me that a fire broke out in the 9th compartment. Why did it arise? And then fantasies begin: they (these are these guys) began to equip the RDU (?), Standing in the water (?), In which the oil was floating (?).
          That is, they make idiots out of them again, and then they say: "Let's take off our hats in front of them, they are heroes." Yes, no one equips RDU, standing in the water in which oil is floating. Ruled out.
          Of course, at some point, a fire must have occurred, maybe even a volumetric one, but I doubt that it happened at 19 o’clock on August 12.
          Again, I’m very interested in how it was possible to establish the exact time of their death?
          Doctors determine the time of death, and then, very approximately, by the cooling time of the brain. Or according to some indirect evidence.
          What kind of evidence, please, bring?
          Redness of the skin from exposure to carbon monoxide? No, I assure you.
          "Typical crunching when pressing on the chest, the so-called phenomenon of crepitus"? No. What else? Where do these 6-8 hours come from?
          Yes, during this time nothing to do. We need to inspect the compartments, find the means of protection, regeneration, water and food, steal everything in one place, distribute the shifts, build the logic of our actions, finally knock.
          And then, okay, we decided to leave at 19 o’clock.
          Again idiocy. Who gets out of the boat in the evening, even if it is still a polar day in August and in the north? What do people expect? The fact that they will go out and float there all night? A hypothermia? What about decompression? They pop up and pick them up and immediately put on decompression. Then it makes sense to go out. Why go out just like that? What drives them to the neck?
          My deep conviction: they decided to go out independently when they established a connection with them.
          A poem can already be written about these knocks. Everyone and everywhere talked about them. At first they said that they were "technological" (let someone explain to me what is meant by this), then they said that it was "a foreign boat giving a distress signal" (what a foreign one), then - "SOS knocks from the surface (?) ship "(and I don't understand what it is at all).
          They talked a lot of things.
          And they established a connection with them, and this is in the materials of the investigation.
          They decided to leave when they realized that no one was saving them.
          This happened on the 4th day.
          Was there a fire? Now it became clear that he was.
          This fire prevented them from going out.
          They would definitely come out. I believe in that.
          In the end, the manhole cover can be torn off by air. And it is known.
          If my memory serves me right, then it is 804 mm in diameter.
          That is, the radius is a little over 40 cm.
          The area is easy to calculate - 3.14 must be multiplied by the square of the radius.
          It turns out 5024 sq.cm.
          This means that if you stretch the tube and prepare the hatch in such a way that only external water pressure can hold it, put on everything to exit, and then crouch around the hatch and give it to the IRR compartment (from the pneumatic tool), then when the pressure exceeds the outboard by 1 atmosphere, the force on the manhole cover will reach 5 tons. He will be ripped off even if he is jammed.
          After that, you can exit by diving under the tube from all sides. Time out 23 people - 2-3 minutes.
          I accuse the command of unprofessionalism. It is on the other side of the system, which in this case is against the submariners, who, at one time, were not taken away, as they should have been, taught almost nothing, then they put it on the boat, not allowing to sleep, and then drowned, and now they are trying to prove everything that they wouldn’t have time to save them, because they died before they gathered to save them. This is an abomination.
          I am against abomination.

          Alexander Pokrovsky
    5. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 11: 51
      +1
      Quote: geniy
      And the Kursk submariners remained conscious for at least 3 days, and then their oxygen concentration decreased and they fell asleep - that is, they fell into suspended animation, in which energy and oxygen consumption are reduced by a thousand times. They could probably remain alive in their sleep state for several months. But the stupid admirals ordered to cut holes in the rugged Kursk case and drowned everyone.

      I think it’s not the admirals who are stupid, but someone else, I read about science fiction
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 18 October 2018 12: 49
        +1
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        re-read about science fiction

        laughing But what, cool!
        1. Comrade Beria
          Comrade Beria 18 October 2018 13: 14
          0
          It’s cool if we weren’t talking about dead people.
          And so this is dance on the bones.
    6. kuz363
      kuz363 18 October 2018 16: 58
      0
      You can argue about heating the air. The duration of the process itself also affects. In diesel cylinders - fractions of a second and the volume is small. And when water enters the compartments, the time is much longer and the process stretches in time. And the volume of air is incomparably greater.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 18 October 2018 10: 56
      +3
      Quote: rudolff
      First

      Hello my friend! hi
      Rudolph, once at the Black Sea Fleet there was an excellent lifeguard named Elbrus of the 537 project, beauties and not only a lifeguard, but also a remelting plant. If I tell you how his crew was formed, I’m afraid for your psyche! And for a minute it was the glorious 1979 year! The fleet is strong in traditions, and one of these traditions is gouging !!!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. sogdy
        sogdy 18 October 2018 11: 49
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        If I tell you how his crew was formed,

        Damn, I would like to ...
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 October 2018 13: 05
          +2
          Quote: sogdy
          Damn, I would like

          At all times, and not only in "democratic" times, they tried to shove the most, most! Those. mediocrity, stray and unwanted! This also applied to Elbrus! Moreover, there was NOT ONE professional rescuer on the rescue boat! But this is not so bad! The trouble was later, when the unfinished Elbrus was kicked out of the plant and it walked for THREE days from Nikolaev to Sevastopol, while five times they played a fire alarm, because diesel engines were spitting out oil in such quantities that the entire upper superstructure and the more the deck were flooded from the heart with this oil, and the oncoming ships took the torch from the chimney for the lighthouse of the Kinburn Spit! To make Elbrus reach Sevastopol, the Directorate of the Shipyard named after The 61 Communards assigned FOUR of their workers from the building team to EVERY crew member !!
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 18 October 2018 13: 13
            0
            Quote: Serg65
            I assigned FOUR of my workers from the development team to EACH crew member !!

            And then what?
            (still have to remove the abscess)
            And in the case - ALL real-life teams appeared that way. Often - contrary to common sense. And everywhere.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 18 October 2018 14: 51
              +1
              Quote: sogdy
              And in the case - ALL real-life teams appeared that way.

              I don’t argue, but the rescue crew is still a specific set of people, and not just the crew, which is EVERYWHERE! Yes, as far as I know, there’s no one to teach a lifeguard!
              Commander Yurgin put a lot of effort and nerves to make rescuers out of the "crew everywhere"! In gratitude from the Motherland, a severe reprimand with the entry into the registration card of a communist and tubs of dirt from "Krasnaya Zvezda" and "Komsomolskaya Pravda" lobbied by "the Stalinist People's Commissar" and the faithful Leninist comrade Ustinov.
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 19 October 2018 13: 41
                0
                http://www.kchf.ru/ship/spasat/elbrus.htm
                http://shturman-tof.ru/Bibl/Bibl_4_st_ucebnici/St_uchtbnici/kostr_avarii_ch2.pdf
                http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?id=427 - от han-solo (Контръ-Адмиралъ)

                Kostrichenko, Eisenberg Accidents and disasters of the USSR Navy in 3t.

                So far, all that I have found.
                I hope to continue - or a separate article.
  8. BAI
    BAI 18 October 2018 10: 57
    +1
    when the Russian Navy actually had no means to save the crew members of the Kursk, after the explosion it turned out to be at a depth of more than 100 meters.

    In theory, they were. In practice, the Lenok rescue submarines turned out to be in a state of scrap metal. I don't even know if there was such a boat on the Northern Fleet.
    1. geniy
      geniy 18 October 2018 11: 08
      -1
      rescue submarines "Lenok" were in a state of scrap metal.

      And tell me - why to save the crew of Kursk even use a rescue submarine? The fact is that on every Russian submarine in the area of ​​each compartment on the outer skin of the light hull there are so-called Epron baffles (Epron hatches). So, under these hatches, the connecting valves are hidden so that rubber hoses for air supply can be screwed onto them. And the depth was relatively shallow - only 80-90 meters to the deck of Kursk. And with the help of air hoses, it would easily be possible to supply air and for the sailors' breathing completely the compartments of Kursk, and even to purge the tanks of the main ballast - for which this system is actually intended. that is, Kursk could be raised in just 1-2 days! But no one realizes this ...
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 18 October 2018 11: 23
        +2
        Quote: geniy
        But no one realizes this ...

        belay Shaw, nobody at all ???? Well ... wassat
        1. geniy
          geniy 18 October 2018 11: 45
          -2
          Shaw, nobody at all ???? Well ...

          But what - maybe you personally guessed that it was possible to connect air hoses to Epron’s baffles? Or did anyone else write about this except me? You have total stupidity, and do not forget to put minuses to me, though my eyes hurt.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 18 October 2018 11: 59
            +1
            Quote: geniy
            Or did anyone else write about this except me?

            Mr. Congeniality! Open volume not blown ...
            1. geniy
              geniy 18 October 2018 12: 04
              -2
              Open volume not blown ...

              And who told you that the Kursk compartments were open volumes? That is, with holes? I suppose you, like everyone else, have read the ravings of fools-journalists? According to my data - all the Kursk compartments starting from the fourth - were completely dry! Well, of course, until the Russian admirals ordered to cut holes in them and drowned all the people in Kursk. And before that, all tanks of the main ballast remained airtight. They could be easily blown and Kursk would immediately have surfaced.
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 18 October 2018 12: 05
                0
                Quote: geniy
                And who told you

                Norgi.
                1. geniy
                  geniy 18 October 2018 12: 27
                  0
                  And who told you that the Kursk compartments were open volumes?
                  Norgi.

                  And these ! And all the fools believed them!
                  So I will tell you how it really was.
                  So, three days passed when the sailors of Kursk pounded with sledgehammers, and now their oxygen concentration decreased and they all fell asleep. And the crews of the rescue vehicles continued to smack dope - they did not have the mind to seal the plane of the coaming pad with the suction chamber. And then they allowed the Norwegian divers to try their luck. But these fools are used to the fact that all modern American and foreign submarines are single-hull (if that tells you something). So - in a single-hull submarine, immediately after the sheathing of a durable case - air, if it is not flooded, and water, if flooded. And now the Norwegians have learned to check it very well. But unlike foreign ones, all Russian submarines are double-hull. This means that on the entire surface of the durable hull, ours also has a light outer one, between which the tanks of the main ballast are located. It means that in the underwater position of a Russian submarine it is useless to knock on the outer hull - anyway, it will give an indication that there is water behind the lining of the light hull, while there can be air in a strong hull. and then the Norwegian fools knocked on the outer hull and bluntly and honestly told the Russian admirals that the whole Russian boat was flooded, because everywhere they knocked water. Fools Russian admirals immediately believed in it and ordered the Norwegians to open at least the ninth hatch. Compartment.
                  But as all smart submariners know, it’s just impossible to open the hatch because the water pressure of 10 atmospheres presses on it, and the general force of this pressure presses the hatch with a force of tens of tons. And no matter how they tried to open the hatch - they did not succeed. Then the Russian officers prompted them to open the pressure equalization tap. And then the Norwegians took a bottle of milk to show everyone that milk does not pour into Kursk, because it is supposedly flooded. However, as soon as they poured milk into the water and opened the faucet, they immediately saw that the milk was leaking into the compartment, that is, in fact, the ninth compartment was dry! And then these bastards of the Norwegians closed the tap so that people would not see their stupidity. And you all saw these video frames, but no one had the mind to understand what was really happening there. But the main thing is that at this moment the sailors of the ninth compartment were still alive, and if not for the further actions of the Norwegians, then everyone could be saved. But these scoundrels immediately removed the video camera so that no one would see their shame. And then water flowed in a thin stream into the ninth compartment, squeezed the air there, ignited the cartridges of regeneration and killed all the sailors in the ninth compartment. And by the way - the eighth compartment was nearby, and there were several sailors, including the famous lieutenant Kolesnikov, who actually moved into the eighth compartment from the ninth. So - in the eighth compartment, all remained alive for the time being.
                  And the Norwegians waited for a whole day - until the water fills the ninth compartment with a thin stream. And when Russian journalists asked why they did not open the ninth compartment hatch immediately, but after a day, these Norwegians said that they were waiting for the ebb!! And then, when they completely opened the hatch, a huge bubble burst from under it spoiled by burning air! This means that before the Norwegian intervention, the ninth compartment was dry!
                  1. sogdy
                    sogdy 18 October 2018 12: 35
                    0
                    Quote: geniy
                    And these ! And all the fools believed them!
                    So I will tell you how it really was.

                    Shipka many beech. Chukchi writer?
                    1. geniy
                      geniy 18 October 2018 12: 41
                      -1
                      Shipka many beech. Chukchi writer?

                      If you can read only by syllables, then I sympathize with you. But there may be others who can read fluently.
                      1. sogdy
                        sogdy 18 October 2018 12: 49
                        -1
                        Quote: geniy
                        read only by syllables

                        Well, that’s enough to notice Mr. Congeniality’s technical illiteracy.
                        The whole "picture" is a collapse as a result of loss of relaxation.
                        In my opinion, the Gansovsky "Mirror". The shadow of a real woman in a metal shell as a result of an explosion. Can I help her? She just wants to go home.
                  2. Archivist Vasya
                    Archivist Vasya 18 October 2018 15: 00
                    0
                    And you all saw these video frames

                    Where can I see these video frames? I can’t find something ...
                    1. geniy
                      geniy 18 October 2018 15: 09
                      0
                      Where can I see these video frames? I can’t find something ...

                      Unfortunately I can’t help you. But I saw these video frames and my friends too. It is possible that these video frames are completely removed from the Internet - after all, 18 years have passed. But I will never forget how these Norwegian scoundrels poured milk around the hatch of the ninth compartment and opened the valve, in the hope that the milk would not leak there, but it suddenly flowed down! And they panicked and immediately shut off the valve to hide the fact that they actually pour water into the compartment.
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 48
                0
                Quote: geniy
                I suppose you, like everyone else, have read the ravings of fools-journalists?

                and you, as I understand it, PERSONALLY descended to the "Kursk" and examined it at the bottom ?!
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 12: 15
            0
            Quote: geniy
            and don’t forget to put me cons

            as you say
          3. Serg65
            Serg65 18 October 2018 15: 00
            +1
            Quote: geniy
            Maybe you personally guessed that it was possible to connect air hoses to Epron’s baffles?

            bully I already know about Epron’s partitions for 35 years, and Rudolph (whom you called a liar) left a bunch of BS with these partitions!
            So lower your nose a bit, otherwise the entire ceiling will be scratched!
            1. geniy
              geniy 18 October 2018 15: 15
              0
              I have known about Epron’s partitions for 35 years, and Rudolph (whom you called a liar) left a bunch of BS with these partitions! So lower your nose a bit, otherwise the entire ceiling will be scratched!
              Yes, please, please - I will omit, I'm not proud. In order for professional sailors not to know about Epron’s baffles, this must be completely fools. But then explain this paradox to me, here Rudolph and thousands of other sailors know about Epron’s barriers for connecting air hoses. so why didn’t they do this during the attempts to rescue the crew of Kursk: After all, it is clear that air hoses would not hurt anyone. My personal opinion is that none of the bosses had the mind to guess about this tool. And this I still do not tell you what is the reason for the non-docking of rescue vehicles. This is a monstrous thing!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. geniy
                  geniy 19 October 2018 09: 53
                  -2
                  I told you in Russian two or three times! Could not connect !!! Specifically, on this project, the partition is so arranged, the columns and fittings are located so that it was impossible to do this with the manipulators located there. Only by the hands of divers. But there were no divers trained and equipped to work at such a depth.

                  I inform other readers - Rudolph is lying.
                  Of course, there can be no question that an underwater vehicle (in fact, this is a small submarine) could screw hoses with its mechanical hands. This is not only impossible in Kursk, but also on any other boat. Connecting hoses using a mini-submarine is like threading a needle through a tank. And this deception of substitution of one another by Rudolph. That is, only divers could screw air hoses into Kursk’s Epron barriers.
                  But there were many divers! And Rudolph is lying that there were no divers. I remember very well that there were several speeches by Russian divers who tore a vest and shouted that each of them would personally go down to Kursk if they let him go. And I still have newspapers with the speeches of these divers.
                  Rudolph: Of course, but those who were Gromov and Kuroyedov were turned off from the fleet as "unnecessary"!
                  Could not turn everyone off the fleet. Just because the first descent to a depth of 90 meters was carried out by an American diver even before the outbreak of World War I, to raise an accidentally sunken submarine. And without any helium - on a regular air-oxygen mixture! It was just that he was well trained to tolerate nitrogen anesthesia. And in the same way, a Soviet diver in 1931 plunged to great depths in an ordinary air mixture.
                  In 1931, the diver Eprona A.D. Razuvaev in three-bolt equipment plunged to a depth of 100 m
                  The very first dives using helio-oxygen breathing mixtures made it possible to achieve significantly greater depths. Back in 1939, Soviet divers Leonid Kobzar and Pavel Vygulyarny descended to an unprecedented depth of 157 m. At the beginning of 1948, again, Soviet divers I. Vyskrebentsev and B. Ivanov were the first in the world to reach a 200-meter depth, and in 1956 .. also the Soviet divers D. Limbens, V. Shalaev and V. Kurochkin were the first to conquer the 300-meter depth. Only 6 years later, the professor of mathematics from Zurich, Hans Keller, reached a depth of 305 m.
                  And even ordinary scuba divers with cylinders of helium-oxygen mixture can easily dive to a depth of 90 meters. It's just that it did not occur to all the boobies from the rescue operation to attach hoses with air in order to supply it to the Kursk submariners. And they could easily blow out the tanks of the main ballast and raise Kursk in one to two days.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 October 2018 11: 56
        +1
        Quote: geniy
        that is, Kursk could be raised in just 1-2 days! But no one realizes this ...

        Excuse me, but can you recognize your military rank ?!
        just wondering how with such wealth (I'm talking about your Moscow) and still do not command at least the fleet ?!
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 18 October 2018 15: 04
          +1
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          still do not command at least the fleet ?!

          bully There are enough of them and vacancies are scheduled for years! Here comrade and trying to crawl out of turn!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. san4es
    san4es 18 October 2018 11: 09
    +3
    12 October. 2017 city
    Specialists from the Northern Fleet’s search and rescue operations department began examining sunken objects in Motovsky Bay in the Barents Sea. Rescuers specified the location on the ground of the Soviet diesel-electric submarine of the project. It was flooded in the 60s for the training of participants in the ship-lifting operation of the S-80 submarine (the Project 80 submarine S-644 died in the Barents Sea in January 1961 at a depth of two hundred meters and was raised as a result of the world's first ship-lifting operation in the summer of 1969 ) For a long time, the emergency and rescue forces of the Northern Fleet used a submarine lying at a 60-meter depth in the Bay of Ein Motovsky Bay as a mock-up stand for testing the actions of deep-sea divers and crews of autonomous rescue vehicles. The current survey is being conducted with the aim of checking the condition of the underwater object and assessing the possibilities of carrying out a ship-lifting operation by the Northern Fleet. The military of the Northern Fleet set a record for diving in the Norwegian Sea. They managed to lower the AS-34 rescue vehicle to a record depth of 1 thousand m. hi
  10. Vard
    Vard 18 October 2018 12: 36
    0
    I can, of course, confuse it ... but it seemed that there was a floating crane that could well raise the stern at Kursk ... the boat sank at a depth less than its length ... But probably the witnesses were not needed ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  11. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 October 2018 12: 37
    -1
    Who would save them if they themselves drowned? They pulled the rubber until everyone died ... Popov should go to the mirror and look into it. He said that he wanted to look into the eyes of the one who drowned Kursk ... am
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 18 October 2018 14: 47
      0
      For what purpose did they drown themselves?
  12. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 October 2018 12: 47
    0
    Quote: LSA57
    Quote: kjhg
    Only the Olympics with the World Cup in terms of cost pull on the entire program for the rearmament of the Navy 2010-2020

    Do you know that the World Cup has already brought in income of about a billion rubles? and this is just the beginning. is it a searchlight?
    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3689386


    More precisely, then 928 billion rubles ...
  13. Radon
    Radon 18 October 2018 12: 54
    -1
    And then they would have saved if they had accepted help.
  14. senima56
    senima56 18 October 2018 13: 26
    +1
    The main thing is to know how to use new rescue equipment! And then, God forbid, as in some clinics, they bought the latest equipment, but no one can use it !!!
  15. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 18 October 2018 14: 47
    +1
    A sanitary unit with all amenities has been allocated in the living compartments, including the hot shower, which is so necessary after leaving the water. For divers inside the compartments of the pressure chambers, a recreation area with a table at which they eat is allocated. Hot food is passed to them outside through a special gateway, through which dirty dishes go back. In the compartments, even televisions are provided.


    Why is all this there when you need only a space where submariners from an emergency boat can be compactly placed for transportation to the surface ??? The faster the better.
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  17. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 18 October 2018 15: 28
    0
    To ask the right question, you need to know most of the answer to it.
  18. sah4199
    sah4199 18 October 2018 16: 13
    +2
    1 It is not clear from the article whether the Kursk submariners would have been saved now; in a short time (how long the submariners were alive in the last compartment is known):
    a) the submarine was found,
    b) saved the funds delivered,
    c) held saved. operation at the right depth.

    2 Norwegians did all this, but it was too late. The story about what they did not know about the structure of the boat and how to save it, sounds extremely unconvincing.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  19. Igor Borisov_2
    Igor Borisov_2 18 October 2018 17: 11
    0
    Nevertheless, Kolesnikov’s letter was not fully published. So there were some facts that were not convenient ...
  20. semenoffdima
    semenoffdima 29 October 2018 10: 17
    0
    If anything, the HS-1200 equipment allows you to work at depths of up to 600 meters, and not 60. At 60, you can work in ordinary scuba gear, especially if on heliox.
    Normobaric equipment generally makes sense to use only at depths over 80 meters (more than the depth of the work of scuba divers).