Darkened "Peremoga": American F-15 smashed Ukrainian Su-27 on exercises

On Clear Sky-2018 maneuvers, the American pilots allowed the Ukrainian Su-27 to win the primitive "friendly match", but at the next stages, more close to real conditions, F-15C and F-15D did not leave the Ukrainians any chance, writes in his article on pages Izvestia military expert Anton Lavrov.

According to the expert, the American command always allows for a slight loss in a friendly competition in order to strengthen relations with an ally and give him reason to be proud. "Overpower" for Ukrainians was the only battle built according to the scenario of the Great Patriotic War or reactive dawn aviation - the game took place at extremely short distances using only guns.

However, the following battles at close and long distances with the use of missiles, the Ukrainian Su-27 and MiG-29 lost with a crash.

Lavrov recalls that Su-27 has come a long way in Russia and has now turned into magnificent Su-30CM and Su-35С. The Ukrainian version of Su-27М1 hung at the level of the end of the twentieth - the beginning of the twenty-first centuries.

Recall the victory of "Ukrainian weapons"Kiev" trumped "before the end of international maneuvers. According to the military, the victory was won due to the best “maneuverability and mechanization” of the Su-27. And October 16 who took part in the Su-27UB teaching crashed. On the site of the crash of the fighter, the bodies of two pilots were found - Colonel Ivan Petrenko and a soldier of the Air Force of the US National Guard, whose name was not called.

Clear Sky-2018 maneuvers are held in Ukraine from 8 to October 19. They include representatives from 9 countries, eight of which are members of NATO.

Comments

[gas113]

However, the following battles at short and long distances using missiles Ukrainian Su-27 and Su-29 with a bang lost.
Typo?

[Starover_Z]

We lost so lost, the training battle and depends on the skill of the pilots and the quality of the equipment.
But why did the Su-27UB crash? Who's guilty ? I feel sorry for the pilots, not in battle, but it's a shame ...
To understand!

[san4es]

Quote: Starover_Z

... the Su-27UB crashed? Who is to blame?

... Clear Sky 2018 ... They have the wrong system.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Starover_Z

I'm sorry for the pilots

And this pilot of the Donetsk children did not spare.

[Simon]

So God punished him for this, together with his "friend" American!

[Arh]

Why would they all fall !!!

[boriz]

Have you seen the face of this Ukrainian pilot? He needs to fly on Ruslan. The plane just blew up.

[Piramidon]

Quote: boriz

He needs to fly on Ruslan.

Nevermind.

[tovarich-andrey.62]

It’s better that way than during the bombing of the Donbass!

[Kent0001]

If a pilot had only managed oxen teams for several years, then where would experience and flight skill come from?

[Ros 56]

Go, sort it out, find someone to feel sorry for, I am surprised at you, they are here trying to intimidate us, well, the flag is in their hands.

[VIT101]

Quote: Starover_Z

Lost so lost

That’s what caper sentiment leads to. This is a bell for us. Over-maneuverability of the Su-27 did not save the Ukrainians. Namely, this is emphasized when creating our new aircraft to the detriment of stealth. I do not think that the level of training of Ukrainian pilots is many times worse than ours. And lost to whom? Not the most warring pilots of the US National Guard aviation. There is something to think about. Or throw caps?

[kuz363]

Stealth is one of the factors. Americans will not allow close combat. and will be destroyed by long-range missiles.

[Setrac]

Quote: kuz363

Stealth is one of the factors. Americans will not allow close combat. and will be destroyed by long-range missiles.

The "eagles" have no stealth.

[EvilLion]

I do not think that the level of training of Ukrainian pilots is several times worse than ours.

Of course. Because it is worse, not at times, but by orders of magnitude. Well, repainted, crumbling planes from the 80s. All sorts of "cobras" on the Su-27 are not performed in normal mode, restrictions are on there, they must be turned off, and for the pilots of bullock teams no one will do this.

[NordUral]

I have been repeating for a long time that hating and bragging leads to trouble. And on VO completely caps in shining peaks flutter. And in vain, American, Israeli and German pilots are skilled fighters, and with avionics they are still oh so better, as well as quantitatively. So there is either a mobilization economy ahead (but not with these thieves in power), or defeat. I am for the first option, but for this the people need to wake up, otherwise Russia will be ruined, as was done with the Union. And "ours" and strangers!

[Setrac]

Quote: VIT101

I do not think that the level of training of Ukrainian pilots is several times worse than ours.

Of course you are right, not many times worse, much worse. Or do you seriously think that Ukraine has intensively developed its piloting school for twenty-five years?

[tihonmarine]

And what, Colonel Petrenko did not know that the machine in 2009 chose the entire resource and was mothballed, and in 2014 it was put into operation without repair? And what pity it can be, because Petrenko bombed Donbas.

[purple]

Quote: tihonmarine

And what, Colonel Petrenko did not know that the machine in 2009 chose the entire resource and was mothballed, and in 2014 it was put into operation without repair? And what pity it can be, because Petrenko bombed Donbas.

Yes, it shows that he is not a pilot ... he used to fly alone on UB, the car thought that there were two ... and then the American climbed and that’s all ... the bolivar couldn’t bear the two

[Alone]

Quote: Starover_Z

I feel sorry for the pilots

And do not feel sorry for the inhabitants of Donbass, whom this fennel destroyed?

[mvg]

Su-29

No, the national Ukrainian interceptor fighter. Make at the Lviv tank repair plant. Motor Sich engines, IAI avionics, Matra rockets

[Piramidon]

Quote: gas113

Typo?

Already on the MiG-29 corrected.

[keeper03]

Do you have admins there, help or zrad ?! Why are you deleting comments?!? This is at least an excess of authority!

[Romka47]

The article says Su-27 and MiG-29

[Alexey-74]

I think this is the usual PR of Americans who theoretically should not lose to the old Su-27

[Normal ok]

Quote: Alexey-74

I think this is the usual PR of Americans who theoretically should not lose to the old Su-27

It is rather an ordinary hohlosrach on the part of a Russian expert.

[rocket757]

It does not reach the striped, sho the sky of the Russian world is not for them ....
History is not taught, but in vain!

[A good one]

And who will understand what they want and what they can, and what they can do.

[Buffet]

So the name of the American pilot was already called here, and even his call sign!

Known and the name of the deceased American - Lieutenant Colonel of the National Guard Seth Nerin (call sign Jethro).

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

There is nothing supernatural, the F-15S has a radar capable of detecting a target like Su-27 at a range of about 250 km, and missiles capable of hitting targets at a distance of 180 km (AIM-120D), and Ukrainian Su-27s see F-15s with only 80 -100 km, and can hit at a distance of about 50 km ...

At a great distance maneuverability does not matter, here the plane is just a flying platform for launching missiles ...

But maneuverability and speed will be important for evading enemy launched missiles, since in Iraq the MiG-25s often successfully escaped from several missiles fired at them just at the expense of speed, the same happened with the Su-27 in the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea. ..

The Ukrainian Air Force remained at the level of the end of the 80s, it is difficult for them to compete with aircraft created in the 21st century ...

[Lucy]

Did you read this in the Murzilka? The level of the USSR Secondary School Grade 9 - Doppler is enough to understand how the capture breaks down. This is not Sapphire on the MiG-23, which intercepts from a 4/4 angle. In the KBP for the playing aircraft (target) in order to simulate a maneuvering target, altitude maneuvers of + - 500m are defined. and cuffs up to 60 degrees, at> 60 grip failure.

[Slinqshot]

F-15S was created in the 21st century. Recently, an article was devoted to Needles at VO, where the Yankees choked with delight - it flies for 45 years and will serve the same amount. Half a century car, count.

[Roman070280]

"to detect a target of the Su-27 type at a range of about 250 km, and missiles capable of hitting targets at a range of 180 km"
"maneuverability and speed will play a role in dodging enemy missiles."

I'm generally an amateur in this matter .. but I would like to find out for myself ..
Launching a rocket in 250km - it’s flying to the target .. hmm .. well, about 10 minutes, I think. exactly ??
Regardless of how and what they induce there .. does the plane in such a time not have time to fly to a safe place ??
The same question interests me with regards to the S300 / 400 systems .. When there is talk about Israeli aircraft, the range of air defense systems and so on .. I always wonder how to shoot a few hundred kilometers at a moving target .. very fast moving !! After all, an airplane does not fly much slower than a rocket ..

[faridg7]

Quote: Roman070280

Launching a rocket in 250km - it’s flying to the target .. hmm .. well, about 10 minutes, I think.

Very wrong. The missile will do 4-6 flights, and this is almost 2 km / s, so those 180 km for the rocket, this is only 60 seconds handicap for the target. Minus the time for launch detection, minus the time for the pilot’s reaction, minus the time for the mechanisms to work ... So there’s not much time.

[EvilLion]

The rocket does not have a constantly running engine, so the speed drops rather quickly. The air defense system is another question, there are no restrictions on the mass of fuel.

[faridg7]

Quote: EvilLion

The rocket does not have a constantly running engine, so the speed drops rather quickly. The air defense system is another question, there are no restrictions on the mass of fuel.

Well, I do not presume to judge all the missiles that are armed with fighters. tightly in contact only with the KSR-5, so there was a starting engine and mid-flight. And their speed was decent. Returning from training launches, the pilots said that they had heard a report on the result of a missile hit without having yet to complete a military U-turn. And the range there was about 300 km. It’s of course, and there’s a considerable rocket, not like the B-B example, one B / H 800 kg,

[VO3A]

It’s easier for me to demonstrate an interesting opus ... Air defense protects an object with a probability of for example 70%, and airplanes destroy a target that covers air defense with a probability of 80% ... Something doesn’t work, the probability is considered by interested people, and together these data contradict each other to a friend, and to mathematics in the first place ... The one who believes is right with them, but he himself does not understand how he does it ....

[alexsipin]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

The Ukrainian Air Force remained at the level of the end of the 80s, it is difficult for them to compete with aircraft created in the 21st century ...

F-15 created before the Su-27

[aws4]

it’s not about when the glider itself was created, but that the needles have been re-equipped and re-equipped several times ... you even get a little insight into the matter .. if you take Ukrainian dryers to carry out thorough repairs, replace avionics, radar, rockets of the same generation as then it’s clear to the eagles .. well, judging by what you wrote - the F-15 was created before the Su-27 .. you are far from the topic

[voyaka uh]

So it is with the Indians, by the way.
The Americans are playing giveaway, carefully filming the maneuvers and techniques of Indian Su-30s. They were forced (by "crushing" several of their fighters) to use "super-maneuverability" with nozzles (even at the cost of the conditional "death" of their F-15s),
but they learned at what speeds and angles super-maneuverability works.

[dvina71]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Americans are playing giveaway, carefully filming the maneuvers and techniques of Indian Su-30s. They were forced (by "crushing" several of their fighters) to use "super-maneuverability" with nozzles (even at the cost of the conditional "death" of their F-15s),
but they learned at what speeds and angles super-maneuverability works.

Yeah .. and even the Indians are forced not to use the radar of the aircraft at full strength .. All in order to find out the limits of Flanker ... What the ... really?

[voyaka uh]

The F-15 has recently replaced radars with a new generation. Of course, playing with the Indians helped improve radar.

[dvina71]

Quote: voyaka uh

0
The F-15 has recently replaced radars with a new generation

Are radars replaced at all on all F-15s?

[voyaka uh]

No, not at all. On 71 fighters according to the contract of 2016.

[figwam]

Quote: dvina71

Yeah .. and even the Indians are forced not to use the radar of the aircraft at full strength ..

But the United States used AWACS, and the Indians were banned, having the advantage, still lost, after which the satisfied Indians, having won the exercises and the Europeans, still bought a batch of Su-30.

[Zaurbek]

Have you read about the conditions of the teachings with the Indians? Hindus did not use AWACS, did not use data exchange between the Su-30MKI and limitedly used radars ... And at the same time, the Indians were in favor of the Indians .. And you are right about the goals of the Americans ...

[Altona]

Quote: voyaka uh

So it is with the Indians, by the way.
The Americans are playing giveaway, carefully filming the maneuvers and techniques of Indian Su-30s. They were forced (by "crushing" several of their fighters) to use "super-maneuverability" with nozzles (even at the cost of the conditional "death" of their F-15s),
but they learned at what speeds and angles super-maneuverability works.

------------------------------
In vain chtoli Hale Avir constantly working? Then he gives all his techniques to the Americans. Israeli pilots do not go on a mission until they know exactly the technique and nature of the enemy’s actions. The Israelis are strong homeworkers against the enemy, usually always have a plan B. This of course is the strength of Hale Avir.

[Zaurbek]

Plus, they use intelligence and refueling services of the US Air Force .... and all operations are carried out in overwhelming technical and numerical superiority.

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Americans play giveaways, carefully filming the maneuvers and techniques of the Indian Su-30.

Really? At the same time AWACS was used only by mattresses, Indians did not use LARS in full force, data exchange in the 30s ... what kind of giveaway is that? Well, they saw the super-maneuverability of the SU-30, so what? At any air show this super-maneuverability can be seen in the performance of the SU-30 and the SU-35 ... and what? What's the mattress "removed" there?
Here, the level of training of the CONSTRUCTION pilots is more important. And here there are big questions in comparison of our, Indian, Chinese and mattress pilots.

[voyaka uh]

On salons in the cockpit, aces pilots from aerobatic teams. And the aircraft themselves without weapons and with a small reserve of fuel. Therefore, an air show does not count. Actual specifications are tested on games. At the landfills, special measuring equipment that does full monitoring.

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

On salons in the cockpit, aces pilots from aerobatic teams.

The aerobatic teams Swifts and Knights-THIS IS A BATTLE STRUCTURAL PILOTS OF THE VKS OF RUSSIA, and not clowns for the entertainment of the audience.

[voyaka uh]

Well, who knows ... we have no aerobatic teams. And there are no aces either. Everyone flies the same way.

[EvilLion]

And the victories are attributed to themselves, and the losses are written off.

[VO3A]

Jews, receiving free weapons, fight against backward countries and shout loudly about their victories ... and fight without rules, violating all international norms and laws, and at the same time demand respect and compliance with some agreements .... They learn this from their pi_ndoskie friends, and then they tell us their tales here ...

[Victorio]

Quote: voyaka uh

So it is with the Indians, by the way.
The Americans are playing giveaway, carefully filming the maneuvers and techniques of Indian Su-30s. They were forced (by "crushing" several of their fighters) to use "super-maneuverability" with nozzles (even at the cost of the conditional "death" of their F-15s),
but they learned at what speeds and angles super-maneuverability works.

====
Is it the Americans themselves who have shared secrets with you, or are you Indians holding on to fools?

[Fbw]

https://topwar.ru/24772-su-27-pobezhdaet-nichego-udivitelnogo.html

[uhu189]

Under SU-29, the author probably meant Mig-29. But in general, there’s nothing special to rejoice about, we and Su-27 and Mig-29 have a lot left in the park (though I can’t judge their modifications), and I’m not very clear about what the article’s joy is about

[ushakorv]

Such an option is also possible. Ukrainians simply stuck their language special in the USA. draining an air battle. Although it’s not necessary to merge with such flying squirrels, and so everyone will prosrut.

[1536]

Or maybe the Ukrainian pilots simply succumbed to the American ones, so as not to dissuade the latter that they are exclusively the first? Executed the scenario of "games", so to speak. And then who will "fight terrorism", drop phosphorus bombs on peaceful villages and bomb everyone they hit? The Americans will still be offended and resign from the army, what good. That, for a hundred kilometers, it is impossible, having made a maneuver, to get away from air-to-air missiles even on the Kukuruznik? Or, in close combat, position your aircraft so that the adversary could not sneak up unnoticed from under the Sun or from under the clouds? Well, and, of course, the main meaning of all this information is that our Russian pilots should now be frightened by the brave American "goshawk vulture eagles." After all, we also have a lot of aircraft of old modifications in the VKS. So the "tasks" of the exercises in Ukraine have been completed! We are afraid ...

[rotmistr60]

For the Ukrainian president, even the loss of his pilots is a "victory" because "played" with the Americans themselves. And this is more important for today's Ukraine than the combat training of flight personnel.

[igorlvov]

soon the aircraft is effective at a distance of up to 50 km, the American will not let it go at this distance with missiles with a range of 280-300 km

[K-50]

Quote: igorlvov

the American will not let him into this distance with missiles with a range of 280-300 km

They don’t have such, from the word at all.
So your dithyrambs pin dos nicknames are unnecessary.

[K-50]

Found someone to "compete" with, they have no hours of flight.
"Kuevskie falcons" hold on to the steering wheel only when the dust is wiped off in the cockpit, and the rest of the time the chassis slopes are kicked, they probably check.

[sso-xnumx]

At the site of the fighter’s crash, the body of two pilots was discovered -

Administration! Turn on the text auto-corrector for published articles, otherwise you sometimes don’t understand what or who it is. And the authors of articles with grammatical errors to deprive the words for 2-3 months ......

[Antidote]

Why is the name not called? Seth Nering, lieutenant colonel of the US National Guard.
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4526154.html

[tchoni]

What slippery news! -) Ie. maneuverability and SUPER-MANEUVERABILITY in a REAL battle no longer save !? Both on! And then the bashi of all aviation LTH Su-57 praises ... It turns out in vain ?! Those. , so there is a CHANCE that in a REAL battle our Su-35s with super-maneuverability that has no analogue in the world will merge the radar and missiles of "conditionally flying" penguins and lizards?

[EvilLion]

That is, repainted trash from the 80s, and the lack of preparation do not save. You're really pathologically stupid if you don't understand that Su-27 and Su-35 are fundamentally different machines.

Ride further and higher.

[Henderson]

So fundamentally different that only specialists can distinguish them.

[adept666]

So fundamentally different that only specialists can distinguish them.

Maybe not experts if they want ... The glider is different, the 35th has OVT + new engines, the use of composite materials is much larger, the new paintwork, which in the complex makes the EPR much smaller, a glass cabin, a new generation of weapons, a new generation of electronic warfare, wide striking capabilities (you see multifunctionality), and most importantly, by far the most powerful radar fighter class in the world and the new OLS ... This is a completely different side, and what the Americans were competing with was successfully defeated in the USA F-15 of the same year. .. there were precedents))))

[Henderson]

What you called is a usual modernization, the same applies to almost any modern 4th generation fighter - a glass cockpit, avionics update, engine modernization, and the use of composites. No one in the world calls the plane a different name for this reason, the maximum is changing the letters of the modifications. And usually even they remain as they were.
AFARs were put on the F-15C, the glass cabin was there for 100 years at lunch, the electronics are also regularly updated, new TSAs appear, but for some reason the name of the plane has not changed.

Quote: adept666

This is a completely different board.

What's in the Su-35 fundamentally different from Su-27?

[EvilLion]

Radar, OLS, EDSU ... Although what I’m talking about, we do not progress electronics, so we are sitting on Intel-8008. And in airplanes there is confusion and vacillation, nobody can do anything and everyone is experimenting. We just take any modern liners and look at the variety of appearance. This is sarcasm, if that.

The glass cabin began to appear at the turn of the 80-90-s. The first was F / A-18, and, all these first monochrome displays caused pilots enough complaints. I do not know where you saw 100 there at lunchtime. At the level of electronics, even a simple Su-34 versus Su-27, like i7 versus Pentium-3.

However, if you are stupid and do not understand that the plane that you started to design in 2005 will differ from the plane that was designed in the 70s ... And how do the planes mean, well, in the USA, for example, they released the 6th version of Windows, as "Windows 7". X) And there are no rules with the notation. The Americans have recently designated versions in blocks. And the F-16C Block 50/52 is radically different from the F-16C of earlier blocks. In Soviet times, Tupolev pushed through the fundamentally new Tu-22M as an upgrade of the Tu-22.

[Henderson]

A lot of water and the lack of an answer to the question ..

[adept666]

What in the Su-35 is fundamentally different from the Su-27?

He has a different glider, a glider The external similarity does not count, if you take a closer look, there are changes in the wing, its mechanization, the shape of the engine nacelles, the design and layout of the fuselage head is clearly improved, the absence of the brake flap and the transfer of its functions to the deflectable rudders (they are also changed), among other things, the internal layout changed, increased fuel supply, reinforced glider, more suspension units. I hope there is no need to explain that this is a fully calculated aerodynamics? No? The degree of longitudinal static stability, that of the base model (Su-27), that of the 35th is negative, but for the 27th it is ~ 5%, and for the Su-35C ~ 20%. And about the letters ... well, something like that for an amateur))) Someone adds blocks to the base model, someone bukavki, someone increases the index (considering the model is not based on the basic prototype, but in terms of combat effectiveness and the number of changes made, for example). The level of changes is such that it can be considered the 35th new side.

[Elephant]

Lavrov mentioned our new planes, but there are missiles on planes that bring down planes. So what about rockets? And the radars on the F-15 see 200 km. We are proud of the maneuverability of our dryers and twigs, but all the same, air-to-air missiles will be more maneuverable and not afraid of overloads ...

[alexsipin]

Quote: Elephant

We are proud of the maneuverability of our dryers and twins

If your MiGs were at 41 years old, then they would have reached Berlin in a month. And in 2018 they are already fighting differently.

[EvilLion]

And dill have RVV-SD?

[adept666]

And the radars on the F-15 see 200 km. We are proud of the maneuverability of our dryers and twigs, but air-to-air missiles will still be more maneuverable and not afraid of overloads ...

There is no more powerful H035 radar in the world - once (therefore, Irbis detects all sorts of F-15s from a much greater distance), and secondly, explosive missiles have one bad feature - they use the maximum milestone wildly to lose speed, and even when maneuvering it completely .. Therefore, if the Su-35S is attacked even from 100 km with its speed and maneuverability, it is not very difficult to get away from the attack and this is not to mention its electronic warfare ... 180 km is for them theoretically achievable range, confirmed - 120 km (and then , then this ...) ... the 35th has a RVV with a range of 110 km (and this is officially for export options), but really ...

[EvilLion]

The rocket flies faster than the aircraft, but it also has a larger turning radius. Learn already materiel. Even in the DVB the aircraft needs maneuverability.

[Yngvar]

Quote: boriz
He needs to fly on Ruslan.

This bloodsucker "asu Goering" on "Tulip" ...

[shadow]

Of course they lost to Fuflik -15, because the engines were removed from them)

[Jerk]

It's not for you to knock down liners

[drunkram]

Interestingly, the narrow-minded author of the article understands that the meaning of the title can be understood in at least two opposite directions?

[APASUS]

It was necessary for the Ukrainians to ride the bike with the F-15, then they would definitely win!

[EvilLion]

They would lose against F-5.

[alexnmv5]

The first fight was real. All others are by mutual agreement.

[Larum]

Pose Yesterday, the media directly burst with pride in the gain. Need specifics.
How much, why, why, at what distance, etc.
And so, crap ....

[iouris]

Question: why and who needed to show the insignificance of the ukroljuftwaffe? But are the States not preparing to put the F-15 ukroreihu? That would be logical.

[kig]

About the American Pilot

144th Fighter Wing of California Air National Guard identifies US pilot killed in Sukoi-27 crash in Ukraine as Lt. Col. Seth "Jethro" Nehring.

https://t.co/3932izg62S pic.twitter.com/NXb96TIw9k

[Ferdinant]

What should be expected.

[radio operator]

Yeah. Peramogu did not happen. Sadness.