“Luka” and “Katyusha” against “Vanyusha”

48
“Luka” and “Katyusha” against “Vanyusha”
The salvo of Guards jet mortars BM-13 "Katyusha", on the chassis of American trucks "Stedebecker" (Studebaker US6). District Carpathians, Western Ukraine

or a story about how “Katyusha” became “Katyusha” and ousted stories important hero "Luka" with indecent, but quite front-line "last name"



About "KATYUSHA" - multiple rocket launchers, it is written here, perhaps, more than about any other form weapons. Nevertheless, since until now, despite all the laws and decrees, archival documents of the Great Patriotic War period are inaccessible to an independent researcher, together with objective information the reader receives a fair dose of half-truth, outright lies and sensations sucked from the fingers of dishonest journalists. Here and the search for the father of Katyusha, and the exposure of the "false father", endless tales of the mass execution of German Katyusha tanksand the mutants on the pedestals are rocket launchers, somehow mounted on ZIS-5 cars on which they never fought, or even on post-war cars, pretending to be military relics.

In fact, in the Great Patriotic War, dozens of types of unguided missiles and launchers were used. The name “Katyusha” was not used in official documents, but was coined by soldiers. Usually "Katyushas" called 132-mm projectiles M-13, but often this name extended to all PCs. But the M-13 projectiles also had several varieties and several dozen types of launchers. So it’s not the case here to look for a “genius progenitor”.

Since the 10th century, the Chinese have used rockets with powder engines in combat operations. In the first half of the 19th century, rockets were widely used in the European armies (the rockets of V. Kongrev, A.D. Zasyadko, K.K. Konstantinova, and others). But by the end of the century they were removed from service (in Austria in 1866, in England in 1885, in Russia in 1879). This was due to the success in the development of rifled artillery and the domination of the doctrine, according to which all the tasks of a field war could well solve the 75 — 80-mm divisional gun. At the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century, only a flare rocket remained in service with the Russian army.

Fundamentally new was the use of smokeless slow burning powder in rockets. 3 March 1928, produced the world's first launch of such an 82-mm rocket designed by Tikhomirov-Artemyev.

The flight range was 1300 m, and a mortar was used as a launcher.

The caliber of our rockets of the period of the Great Patriotic War 82 mm and 132 mm was defined as nothing more than the diameter of the engine's checkers. Seven 24-mm powder checkers, tightly packed into the combustion chamber, give the diameter 72 mm, the thickness of the chamber walls - 5 mm, hence the diameter (caliber) of the 82 mm rocket. Seven thicker (40-mm) checkers in the same way give the caliber 132 mm.

The most important issue when designing a PC is a method of stabilization. Soviet designers preferred operatic PCs and adhered to this principle until the end of the war.

In the 30-e years were tested rockets with a ring stabilizer, not beyond the dimensions of the projectile. So it was possible to shoot from the tubular rails. But tests have shown that using a ring stabilizer to achieve a stable flight is impossible. Then they shot 82-mm missiles with a four-bladed tail in 200, 180, 160, 140 and 120 mm. The results were quite definite - with a decrease in the size of the plumage, the stability of flight and accuracy were reduced. The plumage with a span of more than 200 mm shifted the center of gravity of the projectile back, which also worsened the stability of the flight. The relief of plumage by reducing the thickness of the blades of the stabilizer caused strong oscillations of the blades up to their destruction.

Grooved guides were adopted as launching rockets for feathered missiles. Experiments have shown that the longer they are, the higher the accuracy of the shells. The length for PC-132 was maximum - 5 m due to the limitations on railway dimensions.

In December, 1937 82-m missiles (PC) entered service with the I-15 and I-16 fighters, and in July, the PC-1938 adopted the 132 fighters.

Adoption of the same shells for ground troops was delayed for many reasons, the most important of which was their low accuracy. According to the experience of the Great Patriotic War, we consider 82-mm and 132-mm rocket projectiles as high-explosive fragmentation, although initially the filling was incendiary and poisonous substances. So, in 1938, the 132-mm rocket chemical projectile RSX-132 was adopted. Another issue is that incendiary projectiles proved to be ineffective, while chemical ones were not used for political reasons.

The main direction of improving missiles during the Great Patriotic War was to improve accuracy and increase the weight of the warhead and flight range.

Missiles were ineffective when firing at small targets due to huge dispersion. Therefore, the use of PC for tank shooting is almost impossible. So, even according to the 1942 g. Firing tables with 3000 m firing range, the range deviation was 257 m, and the side range was 51 m. For smaller distances, the range deviation was not cited at all, since the dispersal of the projectiles could not be calculated. It is easy to imagine the probability of hitting a PC in a tank at such a distance. If, theoretically, the war machine somehow manages to shoot at the tank at close range, then the initial speed of the 132-mm projectile is only 70 m / s, which is not enough to penetrate the armor of a "tiger" or "panther". It is not without reason that the year of publication of the shooting tables is specified.

According to the shooting tables of the TC-13 of the same PC M-13, the mean deviation in range in 1944 is 105 m, and in 1957 g. - 135 m, lateral, respectively - 200 and 300 meters. Obviously, rather, the 1957 g tables, in which the dispersion increased almost 1,5 times.

During the war, domestic designers worked continuously to improve the accuracy of PC with wing stabilizers. For example, a reduced-range M-13 projectile with a TC-14 ballistic index was created, which differed from the classical M-13 (TC-13) only in lower weight of the powder engine, but with somewhat greater accuracy and distance (traces).

The main reason for the low accuracy of PC type M-13 (TC-13) was the eccentricity of the rocket engine thrust, i.e. the displacement of the thrust vector from the rocket axis due to the uneven burning of gunpowder in checkers. This phenomenon is easily eliminated when the rocket rotates, then the impulse of the thrust force will always coincide with the rocket axis. The rotation imparted to the feathered rocket in order to improve accuracy is called cranking. Rotations with cranking should not be confused with turbo-jets.

The speed of rotation of feathered missiles was several dozen, at best, hundreds of revolutions per minute, which is not enough to stabilize the projectile by rotation (and the rotation takes place on the active part of the flight (while the engine is running) and then gradually stops. The angular velocity of turbojets without feathers , is several thousand revolutions per minute, which creates a gyroscopic effect, and, accordingly, a higher accuracy of hitting than that of feathered projectiles, both non-rotating and with turning. boih types of projectiles rotation occurs due to the expiration of propellant gases core engine through small (a few mm in diameter) of the nozzle directed at an angle to the axis of the projectile.

We called rockets with propelling due to the energy of powder gases, CC - improved accuracy, for example, M-XNUMHUK and M-13UK. In addition, the rotation of the projectile could be created in other ways. So, for example, in 31, M-1944 (TC-13) and M-46 (TC-31) shells were received, differing from conventional non-rotating TC-47 and TC-13 only due to curved tailgate feathering, due to which cranking projectile in flight. Spiral guides have become an effective tool for turning any feathered projectiles.

Tests of prototype spiral guides began in the middle of 1944 g. In addition to rotating the projectiles, the spiral guides had a higher survivability than the straight guides, since they were less exposed to powder gases.

By April, 1945 produced 100 combat vehicles B-13-CH (CH - spiral guides), formed the first units, armed with them. When firing from the BM-13-CH, the accuracy of the M-13 and M-13 UK projectiles was almost the same.

The second direction of development of domestic PCs was the creation of powerful high-explosive shells, since the high-explosive effect of the PC M-13 is small. In June, the high-explosive 1942-mm M-132 projectile, which differed from the M-20 in heavier warhead and, consequently, lower firing range, was put into service with 13. Nevertheless, the high-explosive effect of M-20 was also soon considered insufficient, and in the middle of 1944 its production was discontinued.

German soldier inspects captured Soviet installation BM-13-16 ("Katyusha") on the chassis of the STZ-5 tractor


More successful was the M-30 projectile, in which a powerful over-caliber warhead, made in the form of an ellipsoid, joined the M-13 rocket engine. It had a maximum diameter of 300 mm. For the characteristic form of the head part of the M-30, the front-line soldiers called Luka M ... vym (the hero of the famous erotic poem of the same name). Naturally, this nickname, in contrast to the replicated "Katyusha", the official press chose not to mention. The Luka, like the German 28-cm and 30-cm shells, was launched from a wooden packing box in which it was delivered from the factory. Four, and later eight such boxes were placed on a special frame, as a result of which the simplest launcher was obtained. The powerful head of the M-30 had an unsuccessful aerodynamic shape, and the accuracy of fire was 2,5 times worse than that of the M-13. Therefore, M-30 projectiles were used only massively; at least three M-1 divisions were to be concentrated on the 30 km of the breakthrough front. Thus, no less than 1000 shells hit the 576 of the enemy’s defense line. According to the stories of the front-line soldiers, part of the M-30 projectiles got stuck in the closures and flew with them. It is interesting what the Germans thought, watching the wooden boxes tumbling around them flying.

A significant drawback of the M-30 projectile was its short range. This deficiency was partially eliminated at the end of 1942, when the new 300-mm high-explosive PC M-31 with a range of 1,5 was created more times. In the M-31 the head part was taken from the M-30, and the rocket was developed anew, and the engine of the experimental PC M-14 was used as the basis for its design.

In October, 1944 was adopted by the long-range PC M-13-DD. It was the first projectile with a two-chamber rocket engine. Both cameras were regular cameras of the M-13 projectile and were connected in series by an intermediate nozzle, which had eight oblique slots. Rocket engines worked simultaneously.

The first installations for firing M-13 had the index BM-13-16 and were mounted on the chassis of the ZIS-6. 82-mm PU BM-8-36 was mounted on the same chassis.

There were only a few hundred ZIS-6 cars; at the beginning of 1942, their production was stopped.

Installation for missiles M-13 (early version)


The launchers of the M-8 and M-13 missiles in 1941 — 1942. mounted on anything. So, 6 guides M-8 installed (on machine tools from Maxim machine gun, 12 guides M-8 on a motorcycle, sleigh and snowmobile (M-8 and M-13), tanks T-40 and T-60, armored railway platforms ( BM-8-48, BM-8-72, BM-13-16), river and sea boats, etc. But mainly PU in 1942 — 1944 were mounted on cars received under lend-lease - “Austin ”,“ Dodge ”,“ Ford-Marmon ”,“ Bedford ”, etc. For the 5 years of war, the 3374 (6%) was used by 372 (11%) for 1845 years of war from the 54,7 used for chassis combat vehicles, and 17 (1157 %), for other 34,3 types chassis (except for “Willis" with mountain launchers) - 1943 (13%). Finally it was decided to standardize combat vehicles based on the Studebaker car. In April, 1944 adopted this system under the symbol BM-31Н (normalized). March 31 was adopted self-propelled launchers for M-12 projectiles on the Studebaker chassis BM-XNUMX-XNUMX.

But in the post-war years, it was ordered to forget about the Studebaker, although the combat vehicles on its chassis were in service until the beginning of the 60s. In secret manuals Studebaker was called the “cross-country vehicle.” Katyusha-mutants on the ZIS-5 chassis or post-war types of cars, which are persistently issued by guides for genuine combat relics, ascended on numerous pedestals;

The tactics of the use of rockets significantly changed by the beginning of 1945, when the fighting shifted from the boundless Russian fields to the streets of German cities. Beating at small targets with rockets became almost useless, but they turned out to be very effective when firing at stone buildings. Almost everywhere combat vehicles were injected into the streets of cities and they shot at home the houses occupied by the enemy. There was a huge amount of handicraft made self-made single launchers carried by soldiers on their hands. The fighters dragged these and standard packages with shells to the upper floors of the houses, installed them on windowsills and fired point-blank fire at the neighboring houses. Two or three was enough to completely destroy several floors, or even the whole house.

M-XNUMHUK


M-31 projectile


Soviet jet mortars - "Katyusha" BM-13 on the chassis of the truck ZIS-12, lost in the area Mozhaisk


Repair of the Soviet rocket artillery machine BM-13 on the chassis of the American Studebaker truck (Studebaker US6)


BM-13 based on the truck "GMC"


Two BM-31-12 (288 launcher) divisions and two BM-13Н (256 launcher) divisions were allocated directly for the assault on the Reichstag. In addition, many single M-30 shells were installed on the windowsills of the second floor of the Himmler’s house.

During the war, 2,4 received thousands of BM-8 installations (thousands of 1,4 were lost), the corresponding figures were thousands for 13 and 6,8 and 3,4 thousands for BM-1, and thousands for 12 and 1,8.

German designers fundamentally differently solved the problem of the stabilization of missiles.

All German PCs were turbojet. The launchers of salvo-fire systems were of cellular type (28 and 32-cm PC), or tubular (15, 21 and 30-cm).

The first German rocket launcher system was a six-barrel chemical 15-cm mortar type "D", entered into service with Wehrmacht chemical regiments in the late 30-s. His main assignment was to fire chemical mines (in the German army, rockets were called mines and tube launchers for them were mortars) weighing from 39 to 43 kg. Externally, the chemical mines differed from the high-explosive or smoke only by the presence of green or yellow rings. From 1942, the “D” mortar, the Germans began to call 15-cm Nb.W 41, i.e., smoke mortar (starter) arr. 1941. Our soldiers called this type of mortar "Ivan" or "Vanyusha."

During the war, chemical munitions were not used and the mortar fired only high-explosive and smoke mines. The fragmentation of high-explosive frag mines was 40 m in the side and 13 m forward. The smoke mine produced a cloud with a diameter of 80 — 100 m, which retained sufficient density for 40 seconds.

Six mortar barrels were combined into one unit using the front and rear clips. The carriage had a sector lifting mechanism with a maximum elevation angle of up to + 45 ° and a turning mechanism allowing rotation of ± 12 °. The combat axis of the carriage is cranked, when fired, it turns, the wheels are hung out, and the carriage rests on the openers of the deployed beds and folding front stop. The fire was fired at 6 shots in 5 seconds, the reload time of 1,5 minutes. The weight of the PU was 540 kg without ammunition.

Since April, the Germans began to manufacture 1943 10-barreled PU on the basis of the Multi-armored semi-tracked armored vehicle for firing 15-cm mines. They called them armored launchers 15 cm PW. 43. The weight of the system is about 7,1 tons, transportable ammunition 20 min, and the maximum speed on the highway was 40 km / h.

According to the “Ivan” type, the Germans created two more powerful launchers (“smoke mortars”) on wheeled carriages. This is a five-barreled 21-cm mortar 21. see Nb.W. 42 and six barreled mortar 30; see Nb.W.42. The weight of the first was 550, and the second 1100 kg.

In 1940, the production of high explosive and 28 cm incendiary mines began (32-see WK. And 28-see WK.). Both had the same engine, but differed in weight, size and filling of the head part.

32-see mines in packing boxes at firing position (Germany)


The area affected by high-explosive mines reached 800 m. When directly hit one in the house, it was completely destroyed.

32-see incendiary mines were filled with 50 liters of oil. When shooting at a dry meadow or forest, one caused a fire in the square of 200 square. with a flame height of up to two or three meters. The explosion of a kilogram explosive shell mines created an additional fragmentation effect.

The minimum tabular firing range for both mines was 700 m, but it was not recommended to shoot at a distance less than 1200 m from the conditions of its own safety.

The simplest PU for 28 and 32-cm min was a heavy throwing device arr. 40 g. And arr. 41, which was a wooden or iron frame, on which there were four mines in the boxes. The frame could be installed at different angles, which made it possible to impart PU angles of guidance from + 5 ° to + 42 °. The 28 and 32-cm-min closing boxes were wooden frames with the same outer dimensions.

To increase the mobility of six throwing devices arr. 1940 or 41 mounted on semi-tracked armored vehicles (special vehicle 251).

With 1941, the heavy throwing facility arr. 41 G. (28 / 32 cm. Nb.W. 41) of the cellular type, which had, in contrast to frame installations, a sample. 40 and 41 not separated wheel course. The installation had a truss with 6 rails, in which both 28-cm and 32-cm mines could fit. Barrel truss was a two-tier structure of bar and angle steel. The weight of the PU was 500 kg, which allowed the calculation to easily roll it across the battlefield.

The 8-cm missile made by the Germans based on the X-NUMX-mm M-82 Soviet projectile stands alone. It was the only German projectile that fired from a beam-type launcher. Such PU with 8 guides installed on captured French tanks "Soma" (German name 48). In addition, PU with 303 guides installed on the already mentioned armored vehicles "Multi".

8-see shells were used mainly by the SS forces.

15-cm "Ivan" on "Multira"


"Multi" at the time of launch 15 see mines


Reactive installation of the 1942 sample on the basis of the Multir armored personnel carrier


"Multir" - a trophy of the Soviet Army


Heavy throwing installation caliber 28, see sample 1941 (Germany). Captured by the Allies in Normandy


German rocket launcher for feathered 8-see projectile - a copy of the Soviet M-8


And finally, the fundamentally new system was the 38-cm RW jet plant. 61 on a special tank "Sturmtigr." Unlike all previous rocket launchers, it is not designed for salvo fire across squares, but for firing single projectiles at a specific target. 38 Turbojet High-Explosive Projectile, see R. Sprgr. The 4581 was fired from a rifled barrel with a length of 2054 mm with an initial speed of just 45 m / s. Then the jet engine accelerated the projectile to the speed of 250 m / s. Charging was done from the breech, for which PU (the Germans sometimes called it mortar) had a horizontal wedge gate. The lifting mechanism of the PU allowed an elevation angle to + 85 °.

The weight of the installation was 65 tons, frontal armor 150 — 200 mm. Ammunition 14 shells. Maximum travel speed to 40 km / h.

In 1944-1945, Henschel released 18 Shturmtigr.

At the very end of the war, the Germans created a 38-cm howitzer on a wheel drive, firing an 680-mm rocket projectile.

In early February, 1944, Krupp, began designing the ultra-long missile system R. Wa. 100. She had to have a thin-walled rifled barrel, from which a small expelling charge threw out a turbojet. At a distance of about 100, the propulsion engine began to work, accelerating it to 1000 m / s. The main purpose of the system was shooting across the English Channel. The variants with 540 and 600-mm trunks were worked out, the weight of the explosive in the projectile was supposed to be about 200 kg. As a PU, it was intended to use a converted 24-cm “Theodor” cannon rail transporter or a reinforced 60-cm ACS “Karl” chassis. The Germans managed to bring the work to the stage of prototyping. After the end of the war, these studies were used in the design of 1945 — 1946. For a similar 56 system, see CANCER in the Soviet zone of occupation of Germany.



German rocket data (min)



Production of German launchers



Production of rockets (min)



German six-barreled mortar Nebelwerfer 41 "Ivan"


Volley battery of German jet mortars Nebelwerfer 41 under Demyansk


Soviet soldiers with captured German jet 150-mm mortar "Nebelwerfer 41"


M-31 shells in packing boxes at firing position


Toward the end of the war, the German designers created an 80-mm multiple rocket launcher system based on the captured S303 (f) and S307 (f) French medium-semi-tracked armored personnel carriers on the 48 Raketensprenggranate (8cm RSprgr.) Missiles. These machines were in service with SS troops. The rockets were almost an exact replica of the Soviet M-8 rocket, known as the Katyusha. Total Germans was created 6 machines to launch these missiles. Initially, these machines were tested as part of the Waffen SS, and then were moved to the Schnelle West Brigade (21.PzDiv.).

Guards rocket mortar BM-31-12 in Berlin. This is a modification of the famous Katyusha rocket launcher (by analogy, it was called Andryusha). Led fire with 310 mm caliber shells (unlike Katusha 132-mm projectiles), launched from 12 cell-type guides (2 tiers with 6 cells in each). The system is located on the chassis of the Studebaker US6 American truck, which was supplied to the USSR under a lend-lease.
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48 comments
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  1. Shuhrat turani
    +2
    29 May 2012 08: 57
    Good solid powerful weapon of its time ....
    1. pribolt
      +3
      29 May 2012 10: 05
      The weapon of victory !!! article + interesting reading
  2. I627z
    +6
    29 May 2012 09: 08
    Another name for Nebelwerfer 41 is "Donkey" for its characteristic sound at startup.
    My grandfather went through the war precisely in rocket artillery, and had great respect for the Studebakers.
    Once this car helped him a lot - it pierced a clearing in young birches.
  3. CC-18a
    -3
    29 May 2012 09: 32
    The caliber of our rockets of the period of the Great Patriotic War 82 mm and 132 mm was defined as nothing more than the diameter of the engine's checkers. Seven 24-mm powder checkers, tightly packed into the combustion chamber, give the diameter 72 mm, the thickness of the chamber walls - 5 mm, hence the diameter (caliber) of the 82 mm rocket. Seven thicker (40-mm) checkers in the same way give the caliber 132 mm.

    laughing it's funny.
    82mm missile projectile is made of current because 82mm is the standard size caliber installed in the Red Army, and powder bombs were made based on the standard. And you author it turned out that the caliber 82mm was invented for the created missile O_O 132mm in the same way. Be careful.

    Remember the author and use as a rule the following.
    Shells (including rockets) are made under the caliber of the guns, and not the caliber of the guns are made under the fired shell. This is a world practice, not only in our army, but throughout the world, I think there is no need to explain the logic of this decision.
    1. +6
      29 May 2012 10: 01
      Quote: CC-18a
      Shells (including rockets) are made under the caliber of the gun

      Thank you laugh. What caliber guns Katyusha by the way?
      1. CC-18a
        0
        30 May 2012 01: 23
        Such a word standard... did not hear? so you made fun
    2. Kibb
      +3
      29 May 2012 10: 04
      Quote: CC-18a
      82mm missile shell made of current because 82mm is the standard size gauge set in the Red Army

      Why is it installed for a battle mortar? And what place is it suppressed with the PC? And where is the standard of 132mm? Although everything is possible
      Quote: CC-18a
      Shells (including rockets) are made for the caliber of the guns, and not the caliber of the guns are made for the fired shell

      You are mistaken, this is not always the case.
      And what is the caliber of the air guide? are two
      1. CC-18a
        -2
        30 May 2012 01: 27
        Such a word standard... did not hear?

        And probably this is purely by accident, so the rocket turned out to be 82mm ... not 81 not 83 ... but precisely 82mm. Honestly funny, you also drew pluses for you, where the current world is heading wassat
        1. 0
          30 May 2012 09: 46
          Quote: CC-18a
          purely by accident, the rocket turned out to be 82mm ... not 81 not 83

          Quote: CC-18a
          Seven 24-mm powder bombs tightly placed in the combustion chamber give a diameter of 72 mm, the wall thickness of the chamber is 5 mm, hence the diameter (caliber) of the 82 rocket.

          So it’s really not by chance.
          1. CC-18a
            -1
            31 May 2012 18: 16
            Oh damn, I considered you, though not always agreeable with me, but nevertheless an intelligent interlocutor, well it happened to you that you are talking such nonsense? I'm really curious.

            Maybe then you declare together with the author of the article that the German PCs were also 150mm with 230mm, and 280mm with 320mm.
            In your opinion, what happened with the Germans so casually the powder bombs suddenly happened to be exactly in mm under the standards of their gun’s calibers, or did they introduce 150 mm guns after the creation of the German 150 mm RS? O_O?

            By the way, I note ... we have 152mm, they have 150mm standard ... and if we had a standard instead of 82mm was 80mm in the West, then the author of the article, like you, by your own mistake assured us that the creators of 80mm PC were not because the standard was, but because that the gunpowder was so randomly ...
            Anyway, guys have enough garbage to suffer, pride can gnaw you to admit that you are wrong, but 82mm of the PC turned out to be 82mm not because the powder bombs were 72mm, but on the contrary 72mm the powder bombs were made because the standard was 82mm.
            1. -2
              31 May 2012 18: 25
              Quote: CC-18a
              did it happen to you that you carry such nonsense? I'm really curious.

              Well, to approve this, first you need to prove your opinion --- you couldn’t prove anything on the 82 mm caliber.
              Quote: CC-18a
              we have 152mm they have 150mm standard ...

              Do you really think that the real numbers in mm of the diameter of the shells correspond to 150 and 152 mm?
              Quote: CC-18a
              Our PC turned out to be 82mm not because the powder bombs were 72mm, but instead 72mm the powder bombs were made because the standard was the caliber 82mm.

              And who said that someone made 72 mm powder bomb?
              Quote: CC-18a
              and if we had a standard instead of 82mm was 80mm as in the west

              Do you really not know the history of the adoption in the USSR of the caliber of mines for mortars in 82 mm, in contrast to the world standard in 81 mm?

              And my advice to you is not to take the word CALIBER literally.
              1. Eugene
                0
                31 May 2012 18: 32
                This is when it was suggested that we need to take a little more caliber, so that if we could use their mines, but they ours not?
                1. -1
                  31 May 2012 18: 38
                  Like, at least the verits are weak. But somehow 81,4 mm did not please our.

                  Although it would be interesting how the opponent can explain the caliber of the German 150 (15 cm) RS in 158 mm
        2. Kibb
          -1
          30 May 2012 11: 25
          Here you are not snoozing
          Well, just a few examples, for simplicity, only Russian guns
          106.7 arr 10 years - there is a Russian 42 linear projectile and the French remake their cannon under it 105 mm
          76.2 - the projectile (and shell) was created in 1900 and for 50 years guns were created under it, the last of the serial EMNIP D56T for the tank PT76
          A19 - first, a ballistic solution is created on the basis of the 48-line Russian caliber and 120 \ 50 Kahn ballistics, then an instrument is created for it
          There are reverse situations, but ALWAYS first a ballistic solution is created, they create a shell in theory, and then they make tools and shells for practical development of the theory
          1. CC-18a
            +1
            31 May 2012 18: 08
            I am aware that the new caliber of the gun is created on the basis of the created new caliber.
            Only now, when the caliber of the gun already exists, then shells are already created under it. Including this PC 82mm.
            1. Kibb
              -1
              31 May 2012 23: 24
              Quote: CC-18a
              Only now, when the caliber of the gun already exists, then shells are already created under it. Including this PC 82mm.

              Do you offer to put the PC82 in a mortar?
              Quote: CC-18a
              I am aware that the new caliber guns are created based on

              You used to say the opposite
    3. +3
      29 May 2012 16: 06
      Not always. The caliber of the projectile, as well as the weapon for it, can be dictated by different conditions, including unification, the use of the same components for different projectiles / guns. For example, one of the arguments for adopting a 7.62mm pistol. cartridge for TT served as the unification of production with rifles. Only the steepness of the cut differed, and the caliber was the same. Also, don't forget about dual-use production. So, for example, the "caliber" of a can of stew is 76.2 mm, which corresponds to the caliber of the most massive artillery shell in the Red Army in the pre-war and wartime.
      1. Kibb
        0
        29 May 2012 20: 31
        Quote: bazilio
        So, for example, the "caliber" of a can of stew is 76.2 mm, which corresponds to the caliber of the most massive artillery shell in the Red Army in the pre-war and wartime

        And what was the "caliber" of a can of stew in 1900, when the shell for 76.2 was put into service? Do you really think that sleeves and cans are made using the same technology?)))
        PS "Striking force" I also like to watch
        1. +2
          29 May 2012 21: 23
          Without going into facts, I understand this: at first the caliber of something is accepted, and then for the existing equipment everything else is done the same size smile By the way, electric-welded steel pipes are 57mm, 76mm, 108mm, hot-rolled 168mm with a wall of 8mm (168-16 = 152mm). You can continue. So there’s something in it ... wink
          1. -1
            29 May 2012 21: 39
            Quote: alex86
            So there’s something in it


            Probably pounds and inches, too, came up with a caliber of something? Maybe all the same, 0.5 dm, 3 dm (famous three-inch) 6 inches are more suitable for pipes?
            And by the way, what is the diameter of 82 and 132 mm?
            1. +2
              29 May 2012 22: 28
              Well, if you are so serious - naturally, pipes and much more are tied to inch dimensions traditionally. But the amusing coincidences of civilian and military dimensions cause a smile. About 82 and 132 did not say anything, the author’s version looks believable. 132mm is definitely a self-sufficient size, since it is not tied to the diameter of the guide, since it is rail. But 82mm (or 80?) - this is more likely to be attached to mortar calibers - although it is not entirely logical.
              And for aviation - RSs on the IL-2 were not hung in tubular rails, there it is easier to stabilize at the time of launch - the carrier already has a decent speed.
              1. +2
                29 May 2012 22: 54
                Quote: alex86
                But the amusing coincidences of civilian and military dimensions bring a smile


                I always smile at inch water pipes. And 12 inch trays. In general, the trays for the splitter somehow strangely coincide with the diameter of the artillery shells. 12 inches, 14 inches, 16 inches - what would it be.
                1. Kibb
                  +2
                  29 May 2012 23: 27
                  Quote: Kars
                  what is it for.

                  This is JZZHZHI for good reason (s) Winnie the Pooh wink
              2. Kibb
                +1
                29 May 2012 23: 26
                Quote: alex86
                And for aviation - the RS on the IL-2 were not hung in tubular rails

                When I wrote about aviation guides, this is also chalk in mind - our RSs were originally created for airplanes and calibers were formed in their aviation hypostasis
        2. Kibb
          -1
          30 May 2012 11: 37
          Quote: Kibb
          Do you really think that cartridges and cans are made using the same technology?)))

          Judging by the minuses, someone really thinks so. Well, well, rzhunemagu)))
      2. +3
        29 May 2012 21: 16
        And, they said, the diameter of Soviet pasta was also 7,62 - for quick transfer to the production of military products (which, interesting?) laughing
      3. +1
        30 May 2012 09: 42
        Quote: bazilio
        So, for example, the "caliber" of a can of stew is 76.2 mm, which corresponds to the caliber of the most massive artillery shell in the Red Army in the pre-war and wartime.

        And yet, I don’t know whether it’s true or not, but they say that the diameter of the sleeve of the "Belomorkanal" cigarette corresponds to the diameter of the cartridge case 7,62x54 of the Mosin rifle.
  4. 8 company
    +4
    29 May 2012 10: 09
    Katyusha greatly helped our country, at that time not a single country in the world could create such a continuous zone of total defeat as Katyusha created with massive use.
    1. +4
      29 May 2012 10: 22
      Quote: Company 8
      Katyusha helped us a lot

      Wow
      Quote: Company 8
      continuous zone of total defeat

      Just do not exaggerate the totality, but the moral-psychological effect is not questioned, both Germans and ours were afraid.
      1. borisst64
        +3
        29 May 2012 11: 27
        The totality of the lesion was due to the imposition of shock waves during mass explosions of rockets, and this compensated for the high dispersibility.
        1. +2
          29 May 2012 11: 43
          Quote: borisst64
          The totality of the defeat was due to the imposition of shock waves


          Is it possible to give it in obsolutnymi values? By infantry in field fortifications?
          For me personally it’s totally --- this is 85-100%
          But behind epithets and metaphors such as ... a sea of ​​fire .. real power is hiding. You just don’t think that I have the desire to belittle or denigrate our weapons, I’m just interested in the maximum possible truth.
          I usually quote this passage from the memoirs of the hero of the USSR D. Loza.
          The right guard group, firing back, began to retreat to the highway. Having lost two people killed and three wounded, with great difficulty she still managed to reach the highway. Fortunately, here the soldiers saw two Katyushas approaching combat vehicles. Their commander, guard junior lieutenant Ivan Krivtsov, after listening to the story of the machine gunners, did not hesitate, deciding to fire a volley at the enemy who was clinging to tanks. Nothing else could be done. Overwhelming superiority was on the side of the enemy, and procrastination threatened the death of tankers. "Katyusha" front wheels quickly went down into the ditch and gave a direct salvo volley. Bright fiery arrows with hissing and whistling rushed into the hollow. After a moment, a blinding flame danced around the Emch. When the smoke from the rocket explosions dispersed, the tanks stood, at first glance, unharmed, only the hulls and towers were covered with thick soot. According to the surviving fascistsscattered in different directions, the tankmen fired. At this time, the rear units of the 233 Tank Brigade approached. The security soldiers in a short attack dispersed the Germans, capturing about forty prisoners.
          ... "Emchists" appeared in the opened hatches of the freed tanks. Fighters ran up to them. “How do you feel after such a fiery“ font ”?” They asked excitedly. Shapkin just spread his hands, then pointed to his ears and, after a pause, said: “One hundred bells ringing in the head. I do not advise any of you to fall under this treatment. Even hiding in the armor of a tank. ”

          Ivan Krivtsov came up. Apologized for ... blow on his own. There was no other way out in this dangerous situation. Eugene Shapkin hugged and kissed an artillery officer. “Thank you, buddy, for your help!” A little uneasy from your work, but what can you do. Anything can happen in a war. ”

          Having fixed the damage to the tracks, having thrown out the burnt tarps, the Emcha went to Mogilev-Podolsky.


          True, there are only two settings, but the target area is also quite limited.
          1. Kibb
            +1
            29 May 2012 12: 32
            "Tankman in a foreign car" is a very strong work of art. Actually, the RS has a maximum CEP at minimum distances, but here shooting almost point-blank - HZ, maybe it's true
        2. +2
          29 May 2012 21: 33
          The application of shock waves is unlikely, since 1. the intervals between the explosions correspond to the rate of descent of the shells, which is clearly longer than the decay time of the shock wave 2. the application of shock waves from explosions simultaneously firing the BM is small, since dispersion is very significant, even with concentrated fire . All this does not detract from the effectiveness of the impact of volley fire in general (just the imposition of shock waves has nothing to do with it)
  5. +2
    29 May 2012 10: 20
    Also interesting photo
    Soviet equipment destroyed on the outskirts of Mtsensk: the broken Katyusha BM-13 on the ZiS-6 chassis, the STZ-5 tractor with a sighting anti-aircraft gun, and the burnt T-34 tank.

    This is Katyusha from the 9 Guards Mortar Regiment left in Mtsensk after the withdrawal of Soviet troops. On October 11, a group of four T-34 tanks of the 11 tank brigade was sent to the city to destroy the rocket launchers under the command of the political instructor, Hero of the Soviet Union Nikolai Polikarpovich Vlasenko (awarded with 7.04.1940). The group managed to break into the city. Tank Vlasenko was the closest to the Katyushas and, based on the current situation (exact circumstances are not known), the political instructor caused artillery fire on himself. The tank died along with the crew, but the installations were destroyed, the task was completed. This is the official version of the feat of N.P. Vlasenko.

    But there are several more versions of the events of this episode of the war: in particular, the version that the Katyusha were damaged and it was impossible to get them out of the city, so the tankmen destroyed them with fire from the cannons of their tanks, and Vlasenko’s car was hit in a battle with the Germans and wasn’t call fire on yourself. It is worth noting that in this picture, and in other pictures of this place, traces of artillery shelling are not visible.
    1. Kibb
      +2
      29 May 2012 10: 27
      Quote: Kars
      STZ-5 tractor with sighting anti-aircraft gun

      Andrei, were sighting like a 122mm howitzer?
      1. +2
        29 May 2012 10: 34
        Quote: Kibb
        were like xnummmmm howitzers?


        I do not think that options are not possible, all the same 1941
        1. Kibb
          +2
          29 May 2012 10: 44
          I think that they are possible, in the end, the ballistics does not correspond to the RSs both there and there and then they refused this decision. But the anti-aircraft guns were not enough anyway, with the howitzers the set-up is half as good, and the STZ and ZISs have too different mobility, although again who knows
          Quote: Kars
          all the same 1941
          1. +3
            29 May 2012 21: 38
            In the 84th, for the BM-14, we fired at the 57-mm gun - the point is not in the similarity of ballistics, but in a more accurate determination of the range (well, mb, wind corrections - the officers gave us corrections for BM without details)
            1. Kibb
              +1
              29 May 2012 23: 31
              Oh how !! Thanks for the info - interesting
  6. Kibb
    +1
    29 May 2012 17: 16
    300 mm is Tornado, 220 mm Hurricane - can you imagine the dimensions and weight?
    ARS -250 (340mm) -380 - 480 kg - also not hand baggage
    Nothing more is particularly remembered, except that from the BM-24, there are about a hundred kg shell, so they seem to be gone for a long time
    In Berlin, the soldier's ingenuity was, well, maybe the level of the middle command staff was "homemade on the knee", but the generals need it?
  7. Kibb
    0
    29 May 2012 18: 24
    Serg32,
    Can you read? Then they used what was at hand. Who will look for M30 \ 31 in warehouses (if they are there at all and are suitable for use) - soldiers? This is not necessary for the generals, and even more so for the suppliers. Yes, and this is not necessary - if the Bumblebees would be in abundance in the troops, then it would be possible and bypassed by them, I saw how the M204 works without bulky ammunition ... (((
    1. +1
      30 May 2012 09: 50
      Quote: Kibb
      if the Bumblebees would be abundant in the troops, then it would be possible to manage them,

      Unfortunately, "Bumblebees" and RPGs were more in the "Czechs". And so "Bumblebee" is a thing, I saw the results of its action both indoors and outdoors. Horror!
  8. +1
    29 May 2012 21: 50
    According to the front-line soldiers, some of the M-30 shells got stuck in closures and flew with them. It is interesting what the Germans thought when they watched somersaulting wooden crates flying at them.
    A classmate's father shot like that, the Germans shouted like "Rus, why are you shooting with a barn" ...
  9. smprofi
    -2
    29 May 2012 22: 27
    Another question is that incendiary shells were ineffective - Well, here the author gives a little blunder. termite warheads were used as warheads. it’s another matter that large-caliber termite ammunition was banned by the Geneva Conference before the war. but when near Moscow in the 41st it became sad, then Stalin, having rejected all sorts of sentiment, ordered that the principle of scorched earth be used and, accordingly, the termite versions of M-13 be applied. it’s just that the villages occupied by the Germans fired volleys with these shells. I had a military instructor at school, which was just in the fall of the 41st and was drafted from the Moscow Region and participated in the liberation battles in the same place, in the Moscow Region. so he said that God forbid the effectiveness: not only that the wooden log houses burned down, but the stove brick crumbled into dust.
    Well, then the Germans, through neutrals, demanded to abandon the use of termite warheads for the M-13, or they would begin to use OM.
    that's how it ended.
    1. +2
      29 May 2012 23: 28
      I won’t argue about the use of termite warheads - I doubt their existence - but there was a stable illusion about the use of incendiary ammunition for the BM-13, in fact, when an explosion takes place, massive enough and large (8x20 cm) engine fragments are added to the mass of fragments which have a significant incendiary effect, creating the illusion of using an incendiary projectile.
      1. smprofi
        -1
        30 May 2012 00: 35
        OF have a significant incendiary effect, creating the illusion of using an incendiary shell - Yes of course! and a crumbling brick stove only confirms illusion!
        however, this can be the end of the conversation, tk. You will not find "supporting documents" in tyrnet.
        PS in childhood barefoot-gold, when the echo of the war was still clearly audible, there was an amusement: put a construction cartridge on a thermite tablet. the problem was, of course, with the ignition of the termite, but this was solved. but when the cartridge worked, the tablet cracked and the further "process" was more fun. a hole in the asphalt was provided.
        1. +1
          30 May 2012 07: 13
          Sorry for the stupidity, I did not really understand the degree of irony. About illusions - following the results of the first use of BM13 by Captain Flerov at the Orsha station, the Germans reported (according to various sources) automatic cannons with incendiary shells and flamethrowers. this is Кostikovskaya Аautomatic Тthermal (we will not talk about Kostikov’s involvement in BM-13) - i.e. and the veterans on our side had (I repeat) a similar illusion.
          The high-explosive action of the 132mm RS is small (including under the article under discussion), and the fragmentation is just significant, including due to the installation of the fuse on an early action. As an eyewitness, I can say that the incendiary effect of the HE shell for the BM-14 is really great.
          1. +3
            30 May 2012 09: 50
            Quote: alex86
            following the results of the first use of BM13 by Captain Flerov at Orsha station, the Germans reported


            German units were unloaded at Orsha station, tanks with fuel were standing on the tracks, as well as fuel spilled in barrels. Ammunition for two infantry battalions and an art regiment. Therefore, there was plenty of secondary effect.
    2. 0
      30 May 2012 22: 11
      During the operation of the engine powder checker, the PC case warmed up to 800 degrees. Here's a colleague smprof, and "termite warheads". Shards heated to 800 degrees will set fire to anything. wink
      1. smprofi
        +1
        31 May 2012 18: 55
        Gamdlislyam, Well, thank you! that's comforted!
        PC case warmed up to 800 degrees
        Yes! of course!
        1300 ° C - termite ignition temperature, combustion temperature up to 2400 ° C
        and 800 ° C for stove bricks, which is for the elephant grains.
  10. Dimon Lviv
    +1
    30 May 2012 00: 21
    Here it was - the Weapon of Victory. Interesting article.
  11. +1
    30 May 2012 01: 32
    "The Germans, through neutrals, demanded to abandon the use of thermite warheads for the M-13, or they will start using OM."
    A link can be about refused?
    1. smprofi
      +1
      30 May 2012 01: 59
      the recollection of the veteran who liberated the Moscow region - that’s the whole link.
  12. prispek
    0
    31 May 2012 23: 00
    Forgive my ignorance, but I would like to know how the aiming was carried out. Especially when shooting from frames (I heard somewhere that installing frames in the direction of the enemy) In the newsreel frames it is clear that the shells immediately after leaving the guides fly where God sends, or does it seem to me?
    1. smprofi
      0
      1 June 2012 01: 18
      prispekand the sight was



  13. prispek
    -1
    1 June 2012 23: 06
    I see the sight. I see that the sight is on the BM. I see the inscription "BENTLEY", which gives (as well as the different shades of paint which cover the sight, its base, and the BM itself) a special authenticity to this picture. wassat Alas. I don’t see the sights on the frames from which the launches were made, so to speak, from the ground. Moreover, with such dispersion, only large, area targets can be fired. For example, settlements Quote smprofi,:
    "But when in 41 near Moscow it became sad ... Stalin ordered ... to apply ... to the villages occupied by the Germans ... the efficiency was God forbid, not that the wooden log cabins burned down, and the stove brick crumbled into dust" Or train stations. About civilians, no one of course. Did not think. Just think, we were left in WINTER (if they were still alive) without a home, and even without a stove. In order to curb the enthusiasm for the effectiveness of this weapon, let me remind you that until March 1944, hostilities were conducted exclusively in our territory. Although for many members of the forum it does not matter.
    1. 0
      5 July 2012 20: 49
      Quote: prispek
      About civilians, no one of course. Did not think. Just think, they remained in the WINTER (if they remained alive) without a house, and even without a stove.

      In Grozny, too, was full of civilians.
  14. 0
    12 May 2014 22: 38
    Guys, where is "Stalin's Hammer"? Why not in the review?
  15. kvs45
    0
    10 May 2015 15: 15
    I read that it did not termite, but white phosphorus was used and it is more logical: termite cannot form vast, multiple foci of ignition. The focus is limited by a pool of molten slag, and white phosphorus scatters in the explosion and itself ignites to form multiple foci + secondary self-ignition
  16. 0
    5 November 2019 06: 41
    The first German multiple launch rocket system was the six-barrel chemical 15-cm mortar type "D", which entered the arsenal of the chemical regiments of the Wehrmacht in the late 30s. ... Our soldiers of this type of mortar were called "Ivan" or "Vanyusha."

    This ridiculous myth has surfaced again. I wonder who first posted it on the net? Our soldiers called "Vanyusha" the same "Luka M", and the German six-barreled one was called "donkey".

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