The cost of the Leader icebreaker has become known.

The marginal cost of the first icebreaker "Leader" (without additional costs and VAT) is 98,6 billion rubles, reports Kommersant.

The money will be allocated from the budget with 2020 of the year.

According to the newspaper, the contract for the first ship must be signed before the end of 2019, the laying was carried out no later than February of 2020. Transfer of the vessel to the customer is scheduled for 2027 year. The construction will be fully funded from the federal budget. It is reported that this position was supported by the President of Russia.

Bookmark the remaining two icebreakers planned for 2023 year. Sources of funding have not yet been determined.

All three vessels will be built at the Zvezda shipyard. In order not to disrupt the laying of the first icebreaker "Rosneft" (the main participant of the shipyard consortium) intends to issue to the shipbuilders an advance in the amount of 3,5 billion rubles, which will later be reimbursed from the budget.

The source of the newspaper estimated the cost of the lead ship, taking into account all additional expenses in 115 billion rubles, serial - by 10 percent cheaper.

By December of this year, Rosatom, Rosneft, Zvezda and the Ministry of Industry and Trade will work out a scenario for financing the state contract (the cost of the transaction may be adjusted depending on inflation).

Recall the capacity of the "Leader" will be 120 MW. It should be the only icebreaker in the world capable of escorting ships along the Northern Sea Route all year round, overcoming ice more than 4 meters thick. The corridor widths up to 50 meters, it will lay with the speed of 10-12 nodes.

Comments

[Vladislav_2]

Now begins the massive cut of the dough ... If only in reality they would reach shipbuilders during and on time

[Shurik70]

If you compare the size of the windows with a helicopter, then their size is three meters high.
I wonder why such a luxury in the Arctic?
And why are they rectangular? For reliable tightness, the corners should be rounded.
Or are they not portholes?

[Corsair0304]

Quote: Shurik70

And why are they rectangular? For reliable tightness, the corners should be rounded.
Or are they not portholes?

This is a picture. It seems that after 9 years (in 2027) the project will undergo changes.
In general, it is certainly a strategically important and necessary matter.

[Vladislav_2]

The round portholes are mostly above the waterline and can withstand a side-wave impact in a storm, while rectangular windows on the upper deck and above

[Shurik70]

Quote: Vladislav_2

The round portholes are mostly above the waterline and can withstand a side-wave impact in a storm, while rectangular windows on the upper deck and above

For technical reasons, the angle under heavy loads on the structure is a stress concentrator. Rectangular windows on any structure that faces heavy loads, and even more so on an icebreaker, need to do with rounded corners.

[Yrec]

These are panoramic windows for tourists.

[engineer74]

Quote: Yrec

These are panoramic windows for tourists.

These are launcher covers ... Hence, by the way, and the price ....

[den3080]

Just based on Le Grand Bleu Abramovich

[Piramidon]

Quote: Shurik70

Or are they not portholes?

PVC windows.

[Svarog]

Quote: Vladislav_2

Now begins the massive cut of the dough ... If only in reality they would reach shipbuilders during and on time

Well, without this, nothing is done here .. remember this figure is 96 billion rubles .. - this is the marginal cost .. I’m sure that when they build it, the cost will be at least 8% higher .. Not one more calculation, we have a large project was not accurate .. Take at least the Kerch bridge is one of the last .. This is the bad side .. But the good thing is that this is real production, which will create a large number of jobs ..

[yehat]

if it is made in the amount of 1 piece, it will be a very bad outcome.
and it doesn’t matter how many jobs will be created - it’s just inefficient to waste the country's resources. It’s easier then to transport goods on dogs.

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: yehat

if it is made in the amount of 1 piece

it seems to me that 3 is a lot, and 1 is not enough ..... although if after 23 years they begin to actively drill the Arctic shelf and uninterrupted logistics will be needed - then 3 just right

[Piramidon]

Quote: Svarog

remember this figure is 96 billion rubles .. - this is the marginal cost ..

Firstly, there is one more digital -

The source of the newspaper estimated the cost of the lead ship, taking into account all additional expenses in 115 billion rubles, serial - by 10 percent cheaper.

Secondly, it is written there -

(transaction value may be adjusted depending on inflation).

[Maksus]

In short, the destroyer Leader smoothly turned into an icebreaker. The main question is why should Rosneft, Gazprom and Rusal (for example) not finance the construction of all three icebreakers? Or are we only able to invest money in football?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Maksus

In short, the destroyer Leader smoothly turned into an icebreaker.

Not quite right ....

The icebreaker of project 10510 "Leader" has a new task: if necessary, he will become a warship. It will be possible to install containers with anti-submarine, missile or artillery weapons on it, Izvestia reports. “The project of deploying weapons systems on it goes through the stage of technical expertise and is considered as an auxiliary one. Installation of combat modules is possible only in a special period. At this time, it is planned that the vessel can be involved to strengthen the naval group of the Northern Fleet, ”the newspaper writes with reference to the representative of the High Command of the Navy.
Currently, the nuclear icebreaker "Leader" exists in the form of a model. The Iceberg Central Design Bureau and the Krylov State Research Center are engaged in technical design of the vessel, optimization of the interior, as well as equipment locations.
According to military expert Alexander Mozgovogo, the idea of ​​arming icebreakers is not new, but with the advent of modular technology, this concept will reach a new level.

https://topwar.ru/130224-ledokol-lider-mozhet-poluchit-vooruzhenie.html

In one of his recent interviews, President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) A. Rakhmanov indirectly indicated the refusal to build for the Russian Navy new combat surface ships of the ocean zone - Project 23560 Leader destroyers. In response to a question from an Izvestia correspondent about why they refused to build them, he replied, "All questions are for the customer. If the Ministry of Defense decides that it [Leader] needs to be built, we will take it." A skeptical reader may get the impression that the military department can easily exchange some ill-conceived decisions for others, while in reality no one thought to abandon the construction of the destroyers of the new project.

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/195066.html

[pafegosoff]

Why only football? Another radio station "Echo of Moscow", another to support two million officials and the government of traitors and enemies of the people. And on the pension of deputies and deputies?

[Simon]

Why do you see all the bad!

[newcomer]

powerful handsome, you can say beautiful power! if only the construction went without shifts, pah, pah, pah.

[Chertt]

the only icebreaker in the world capable of piloting vessels along the Northern Sea Route year-round, breaking ice more than 4 meters thick.

This is no doubt a landmark project. But, at a cost like two "Boreas".

[newcomer]

it's worth it. SMP is waiting for him.

[Altona]

Quote: Chertt

This is no doubt a landmark project. But, at a cost like two "Boreas".

--------------------------
I also thought about money, and as in a joke: "Maybe it makes sense to return to the aircraft carrier with such a budget?"

[Chertt]

Here, I suppose, the central thought is "the only one in the world." That is, continuous innovation, and you have to pay for it.

[Altona]

Quote: Chertt

Here, I suppose, the central thought is "the only one in the world." That is, continuous innovation, and you have to pay for it.

----------------------
The Russian government first destroyed the domestic shipbuilding and aircraft industry in order to open the way for transnational corporations, of course, for kickbacks and bribes. Now that serial production has been destroyed, the government is "developing" domestic shipbuilding and aircraft manufacturing in order to tug at the budget for "revival", because really big funds are required to revive scientific and engineering schools, the production of components, and not engage in the selection of imported analogs, of which then compile the product. Therefore, it is not surprising that our engines are joint at best, devices are joint, although we were sovereign in this regard during the Soviet era.

[Chertt]

Quote: Altona

The Russian government first destroyed the domestic ship and aircraft

So why did you ruin the Soviet Union. And now crying.

[Altona]

Quote: Chertt

So why did you ruin the Soviet Union. And now crying.

--------------------
How could I, for example, destroy the USSR? Have I signed agreements in Malta? Or did I "unite" Germany? In general, at that time I was studying at the institute. Then ask the question "why are we not seizing power again?"

[Chertt]

Quote: Altona

How, for example, could I destroy the USSR? .... I generally studied at the institute at that time

I was finishing the eleventh grade. So we saw the same thing, as our country was killed. And you do not see the difference between the 90s, the labeled - Yolkin and our time?

[Altona]

Quote: Chertt

I was finishing the eleventh grade. So we saw the same thing, as our country was killed. And you do not see the difference between the 90s, the labeled - Yolkin and our time?

----------------------------------------
Well, you were 16 years old, I was 22, figuratively. I see the difference, moreover, I try to comprehend this difference. But I judge by my region, by other regions where there was industry. I see the goal-setting of the Soviet government and the current government. Under Soviet rule, I calmly came to Moscow, entered, got a hostel, graduated from the institute. Now it is difficult to imagine such a situation on an average young man. I look at the industry, it fell 10 times, this is what I see. And so is degradation in many ways. And the current government is a product of Yeltsin's, it even puts Yeltsin centers everywhere and other things. I'm not saying that the USSR was perfect, but it developed, despite the felt boots of the sheepskin coat. Today we cannot create a new rocket, under the USSR it was not a question at all. Even the "star wars" for the USSR were not a question - beam weapons and geostationary lasers took 3 years to build, plus the necessary satellites, plus mass-market zero-class equipment. There was no bourgeoisness, but the youth were engaged in business. And as the bourgeoisie began to propagandize and the infallibility of the authorities, everything fell down. Today's top of the United Russia is a copy of the top of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, or rather, some are still from there to this day. And all the time there are blockages of fresh air and musty propaganda, attempts to redirect the people to the outside. May we defeat America, if there is such a task, we cannot only defeat the philistine. I can write for a long time, you cannot write articles in the comments.

[newcomer]

everything has its time: and returned to the aircraft carrier. Well, if you summarize everything that is written about the “Leader”, then this is a new generation nuclear icebreaker, the price is appropriate. (by the way, the reactors are also the latest, which will subsequently go to the aircraft carrier).

[Keyser soze]

The icebreaker will bring a lot of money, along your Northern Way, and the aircraft carrier will spend it nemereno .. here and decided that you can live well without an aircraft carrier.

[Borsht]

Quote: Chertt

This is no doubt a landmark project. But, at a cost like two "Boreas".

Russia's spending on preparations for the unnecessary World Cup totaled 683 billion rubles. How many Boreev are there?

[Chertt]

Quote: Borst

Russia's spending on preparations for an unnecessary soccer world cup

This topic has long been discussed. Benefits - direct, indirect, reputational, etc., significantly exceed costs. Therefore, all countries of the world are fighting for the championship (England is more impudent than others)

[Borsht]

Quote: Chertt

This topic has long been discussed. Benefits - direct, indirect, reputational, etc., significantly exceed costs.

Yes, submarines and icebreakers do not give direct, indirect, reputational, etc. benefits.
I believe that money should be spent on football when there is nowhere else to spend it. Football in importance and order is immediately behind the problem of coloring toilet brushes.

[aiden]

And 952 billion earned + the finished infrastructure remained. If you said A, then speak B

[yehat]

we do not go in simple ways! necessarily draw extra. the condition is that either the plant closes, which creates engines or the requirement for an icebreaker will be added so that it can accommodate both the equator and the warm pool on the roof or that it can dive and navigate caravans under water.
And then they will begin to diligently master the changes in the estimate and budget, then they will say that they are outdated and everything would be fine and are about to be launched, but a new one needs to be done.

[prior]

98,6 billion rubles. Why so little? On kickbacks and cut enough laid?
What the hell is he for? While they are building, the ice will melt due to warming.
It is just as needed in the Arctic as the Land Cruzer 200 for trips to the taiga to hunt - drove to the forest and back to the village for a "loaf" or UAZ.

[faiver]

Well, if 100bn. laid means the real price of about 70bn.

[Black sniper]

Such an icebreaker is needed; the cargo flow at the NSR is huge.

[faiver]

what a great? gray shadow from the cargo flow of the times of the USSR ...

[mihey]

Firstly, a "loaf" is also a UAZ, and secondly, how many will be sawed there or not, but for the Northern Sea Route such a miracle is really needed and I hope that it will be built.

[prior]

I did not say that icebreakers are not needed, I believe that hardworking icebreakers are needed at a sane price, and not dude icebreakers at the price of an aircraft carrier.

[mihey]

Quote: prior

Leader’s capacity will be 120 MW. It should become ... capable of piloting vessels along the Northern Sea Route year-round, breaking the ice more than 4 meters thick. It will lay a corridor up to 50 meters wide at a speed of 10-12 knots.

These claimed characteristics are probably worth it.
And about the "icebreakers-dudes" ... well, the "earth-air" month was enough for me to understand that work at sea is not mine. Sailors began to be respected much more and I don't see anything wrong with living conditions on any sea vessel as comfortable as possible.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: prior

It is just as needed in the Arctic as the Land Cruzer 200 for trips to the taiga to hunt - drove to the forest and back to the village for a "loaf" or UAZ.

Tell us about its foreign counterpart, listen carefully ....

[16112014nk]

First, Rosneft will allocate the money, then this money will be returned to Sechin, and Rosneft will receive the icebreaker. Multi-way!

[sogdy]

What is the purpose of your concern?
Icebreakers belong to the state, as indicated by the target board.
But icebreakers need Rosneft, as evidenced by the intention to pay in advance.
After all, Rosneft does not buy back taxes ?!

[The Siberian barber]

The principle that there are plans, the construction of new icebreakers, there is a buzz. I just noticed that as regards the wiring through the ice of the oil / gas carriers, it is more priority than the construction of warships, in which the terms of construction / modernization / delivery are constantly shifting to the right, due to the lack of money
I don’t remember that state-owned companies took the initiative in this.
Even, from the beloved by the authorities, and widely and pompously promoted project "Yamal LNG", to an ordinary Russian, it is not "cold, not hot"

[Ponchik78]

That is, Yamal LNG pays no taxes?

[Ros 56]

It is quite comparable with the cost of an atomic strike boat. As far back as the 80s, the cost of an atomic missile carrier flashed within 1,2-1,5 billion of American money. A big good icebreaker, I think, is worth nothing less.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Ros 56

It is quite comparable with the cost of an atomic strike boat. Back in the 80's, the value of an atomic missile carrier flashed within 1,2 - 1,5 billion of American money

Nah, Boreas walked less than a billion. And here are Ash-trees - they are, 1,5 yards, even EMNIP a little more

[sleeve]

What's so not expensive? Will they be counted again? Such a "thing" will be one and a half times more expensive. If the amers, then three.

[Galleon]

Keywords in this article:

money will be allocated from the budget

.
Icebreakers will be built by the country, and they will be served by the export by private capital of gas and oil from this country. Why are Gazprom and Rosneft (and their ilk) not building icebreakers themselves? What for? A few passes with dexterous hands, and now these ships can be built at the expense of failed pensioners. Alle op!

[Piramidon]

Quote: Galleon

Icebreakers will be built by the country, and they will be served by the export by private capital of gas and oil from this country.

In your opinion, does the country have nothing from selling oil and gas?

[Galleon]

In your opinion, it turns out that we should be extremely grateful to private oil companies for paying taxes. But is it normal that their leaders, their relatives and servants multiply Forbes lists by selling the country's bowels?
Is that normal, Pyramidon?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Galleon

In your opinion, it turns out that we should be extremely grateful to private oil companies for paying taxes. But is it normal that their leaders, their relatives and servants multiply Forbes lists by selling the country's bowels?
Is that normal, Pyramidon?

No, Andrey, this is not normal. But what happened is what happened. History has no subjunctive mood. The Soviet government will not be returned, at least get excited. And those who were at the helm in the last years of the existence of the USSR, now have become the owners of factories and ships. So shout - do not shout, but you have to live under capitalism.

[vargo]

Quote: Galleon

Icebreakers will be built by the country, and they will be served by the export by private capital of gas and oil from this country.

What makes you think that they will work for free, and even more so belong to the oil industry? It is immediately written that everything is done without attracting extrabudgetary funds. A payment from Rosneft is likely for some preferences in the use of this icebreaker in the very first periods.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Galleon

In your opinion, it turns out that we should be extremely grateful to private oil companies for paying taxes.

The majority shareholder of these companies is the Russian Federation, which their management approves. So you are against the fact that the Russian Federation approves the leadership in these private companies or are you sad that you will not be appointed as the leadership in these companies?

[Conductor]

I would like to recall the project of the atomic destroyer Leader, which will never be born. Can I change the name? Name the project Papanin.

[Sonet]

It’s unfortunate that there are no windows in the nose in the forward direction. There is ice in the Arctic like 30 meters high.

[sogdy]

Quote: Sonet

Type there in the Arctic ice 30 meters high.

And how many?

[Beringovsky]

Great! The stupidity of our power breaks another bottom. We already have more icebreakers than in all countries of the world combined. And what's the point?
But you need more, more icebreakers!

[slm976]

The stupidity of our power breaks another bottom. We already have more icebreakers than in all countries of the world combined. And what's the point?

The stupidity of your comment breaks another bottom !! Maybe you yourself can guess why our country has so many icebreakers? Key words - "development of the Arctic"!

[Beringovsky]

Yes of course. Why should we invest in mechanical engineering and electronics?
We will master the Arctic, get oil, sell and buy what we want.
Great Raw Materials Colony.
By the way, we have many more of these icebreakers than the United States, Canada, Denmark and Norway combined, and so what? What did it give? Are we richer now than Canadians or Norwegians?
Sechin and Rotenberg, yes, richer.

[slm976]

Dear Alexei, as I understand it, my proposal to think did not interest you. Then maybe you will at least carefully read the article you are commenting on, and at the same time look at the map of Russia, or rather, at its northern territories, at the length of the coastline along which the NSR passes. Maybe then it will become clear to you the importance of year-round navigation through the NSR, which can be provided with the help of these icebreakers, for the development of the infrastructure of our northern territories - mining, military. research, trading!
Maybe then it will become clear to you why we have many times more icebreakers than all other countries combined !!!
And if you still take the trouble to evaluate when the operating dates for the current Rosatom icebreakers are coming to an end, and how many total icebreakers we are building to replace now, then you will see that we are only replenishing our nuclear icebreaker fleet so far !!!

As for your:

invest in mechanical engineering and electronics?

It never occurred to you what a high-tech product is an atomic icebreaker, what kind of cooperation is needed to create it, and what set of those. does it entail decisions? This is precisely the very development of mechanical engineering, and the most high-tech !!

Are we richer now than Canadians or Norwegians?

So don’t invest money in the state - you won’t live better, because by living better you mean only your specific moshna, which has nothing to do with mechanical engineering, electronics, and even less shipbuilding!

Great Raw Materials Colony.

I’m wondering why, then, the high-tech, highly developed USA are trying to force us out of the commodity markets and take this unenviable place for us - the Great Raw Materials Colony? Why are they extracting this gas of theirs and sucking it in by hook or by crook?

[Dikson]

We tried year-round navigation around the NSR during the USSR .. And there were enough icebreakers and the north was not abandoned in terms of hydrography and development .. The navel was torn. It is still expensive and risky. Need a whole fleet of ice class. The situation in the Arctic is changing hourly. And there were a lot of cases when even nuclear-powered ships with a capacity of 75 thousand horses were rubbed with ice and asked for help. What to say about conventional bulk carriers, container ships and tankers? - They will not have time to flatten and meow. But these are huge economic risks. Walking through the floor of the world is longer, but safer. You can’t attach an icebreaker to every merchant, and he won’t save it if he erases it seriously .. Maybe the climate will change so much that the northern coast of Russia will really become free of ice - then of course ..

[slm976]

Since just now a whole fleet of ice-class vessels is being built, and the Leader is planned to have a capacity of 120 MW, which should allow for the caravan of ships all year round! In addition, the situation in the world has changed, the rules of the game have ceased to apply, and the sea transport corridor is not controlled by the Americans, and they and their fleet control all other sea transport routes around Eurasia (except for the NSR), will be in demand, and perhaps at some point it will simply vital!

[aiden]

Yes, it’s better if they gave this money to pensioners

[Dikson]

This floating shit in the picture has nothing to do with the real ice-breaking Arctic shipping .. Draw your fashionable yachts for billionaires and do not try to pull this style on reality .. Tired of it already .. For those interested, just look at the photos of nuclear powered ships that are currently operating in high latitudes. Who will crawl along this aerodynamic beauty, clearing tons of ice from it ?? drawing beautiful pictures? The smallest grains of snow, clogging all the cracks and holes, rushing at a speed of 25-30m per second - this is what the Arctic is. When this beautiful monster in the picture stupidly freezes with ice - how to clean it? Where are the beam cranes loading food and stuff? where are the mooring devices? Is that a pleasure yacht? Equatorial cruiser?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Dikson

Where are the beam cranes loading food and stuff? where are the mooring devices? Is that a pleasure yacht? Equatorial cruiser?

[Dikson]

Now you can scribble a multibillion-dollar loan under the drawing from the Tekhnika-Molodyozhi magazine.

[An60]

Flashing under the Polish flag ...

[Dikson]

under Indonesian. If f cho. But it does not change the essence. Do you know why in the new technology in the north the bottoms are always full of holes? Snow powder clogs up in crevices and turns into water. then it turns into ice and tightly blocks all the antenna servos, engine flywheels, crowns on the clutch baskets .. -fuck you start in the morning if you turn off the engine .. This is not taught in institutes .. it's like knowing what is better than rolled felt boots in the Arctic nothing has been invented yet - the rest when riding a snowmobile or an ATV is blown through and freezes the joints .. and the handle on the knife is better made of birch bark or burl - it does not slip even when it is covered in blood .. and then the kids drew a beautiful picture and people started throwing caps up .. ask any naval officer what he thinks about this "Leader" .. The word is what ... In every village the first stall near the highway is called that .. Papanin would be called at least, or Schmidt ..

[Dikson]

I’m even interested in all these reports about Arctic successes .. deployments of systems .. an ordinary telescopic mast with an antenna under a VHF radio station freezes an hour after deployment so that it has to be stupidly dropped to the ground and heated up to get it back to the transportation state. - It doesn’t add up .. And here they tell me tales about special forces on ATVs in the Arctic, rushing cheerfully along hummocks .. Yeah .. 15 minutes and with a frostbitten board in the medical battalion. Because the windshield of a fashionable ATV is simply screwed on for beauty ..))

[Dikson]

And this, our indulgent An06 you are not funny .. - just imagine - shoved the MOBILE complex onto the bare Arctic island. put on the pads (it would be nice). Combat duty. polar night. snow and wind are constant. judging by the joyful reports, they did not make any vestibules in the cabins. You are sitting at a combat post in a car, you are serving .. here a door opens to the Arctic Arctic and a cab with a shift body rolls a kilogram of 100 snow .. and all the heat is blown out in seconds .. and you still have to touch it from the car just on duty literally to the building reach in the dark, and there already, eyes from the snow pecking, exhale .. Such is the victorious romance.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Dikson

Now you can scribble a multibillion-dollar loan under the drawing from the Tekhnika-Molodyozhi magazine.

Do you know the project? Or is it enough for you to evaluate a project to look at the left picture stuck by an illustrator to an article for beauty?

[Old26]

Quote: Shurik70

If you compare the size of the windows with a helicopter, then their size is three meters high.
I wonder why such a luxury in the Arctic?
And why are they rectangular? For reliable tightness, the corners should be rounded.
Or are they not portholes?

Alexander. This is, after all, a picture of an icebreaker, not a photograph of at least a model

[swyatoslav]

Yes, everything is SUPER !!! Bravo! A series of 10 icebreakers, encore pzhsta !! And do not let them squeeze.
The budget will pull everything out: the bridge to Sakhalin, the trillion-dollar road to Kadyrov, and the damn cloud of high-tech projects that our country needs so much for an unprecedented leap forward.
That's just do not give retirees a pension - NO MONEY ....., well, at least they are HOLDING .... for now.

[Simon]

Don’t worry, pensioners will still find money, and the north needs to be developed, if we don’t borrow it, then others will definitely appear there. Already there many people grind their teeth, almost all of Europe, America, Canada and China.

[sogdy]

Quote: Simon

Already there many people grind their teeth, almost all of Europe, America, Canada and China.

Without any jokes - they demanded of us (!!) to give the north of Siberia and the Far East as unused territories. Like, they are able to use them more efficiently - like letting them use fuel, and the ores there require minimal enrichment ... And the people - yes, there’s no root for anyone there. Vashcheta, 63% of the population ...

[Nychego]

I think it is necessary to transfer one "Leader" to Estonia in order to pay off "debts for the Soviet occupation".
I believe that the "Leader" will crush the Estonian economy, like the economy of the "banana republic" by a heavy cruiser.

[Simon]

Quote: Vladislav_2

Now begins the massive cut of the dough ... If only in reality they would reach shipbuilders during and on time

Why is your friend all bad seen!

[Simon]

Quote: Nychego

I think it is necessary to transfer one "Leader" to Estonia in order to pay off "debts for the Soviet occupation".
I believe that the "Leader" will crush the Estonian economy, like the economy of the "banana republic" by a heavy cruiser.

What's this?! To give such gifts to Estonia? Think what you say ?! They owe us even more. Peter1, the Swedish king Karl for Estonia rolled off a tidy sum of gold, in addition, the Union also invested a certain amount in the economy. So, the Estonians did not live in poverty, but lived perfectly, at least better than in Russia. Enough! We ourselves have to live normally.