Military Review

Split UOC is used to draw the RF Armed Forces into the war. FT merges data

194
The American and British media in fact open the veil on the “secret” of why the United States so “cares” about the provision of the so-called autocephaly to the schismatic UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate. There is only one reason for the United States: to draw Russia into the Ukrainian conflict by all means.


Edition Financial Times publishes material in which it declares that the provision of autocephalous UOC-KP could be a “reason for a new invasion of Ukraine.”

Split UOC is used to draw the RF Armed Forces into the war. FT merges data


The article argues that there is a high probability of precisely such a development of events “against the background of the fall of Vladimir Putin’s presidential rating.

The Western press writes, not without satisfaction, that the Orthodox world was on the verge of a split, which could become a kind of repetition of the split of the 1054 year, when Christianity, as a single religion, ceased to exist, and its two branches appeared: Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

It is stated that "Putin can use troops to try to prevent a split in Orthodoxy."

From the material:
The confrontation between Ukraine and Russia is not religious, but geopolitical. However, the split of the Orthodox Church strikes at the concept of "Russian World".


Also in the material of Western observers announced that the Russian Orthodox Church "refused to condemn the bloodshed in the south-east of Ukraine, and this significantly increased the ranks of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kiev Patriarchate."

All these statements make it clear that the West, led by the United States, continues to take active measures not only to split the unity of the peoples of Russia and Ukraine, but also for a real military confrontation with the dragging of Russian troops into the internal Ukrainian conflict.
Photos used:
Facebook, Kremlin site
194 comments
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  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 15 October 2018 12: 22
    +2
    Amer decided to rise again in the war
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 15 October 2018 12: 25
      +6
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      Amer decided to rise again in the war

      One LLC with another LLC didn’t divide something, how can people be drawn into the war because of this?
      1. Vanek
        Vanek 15 October 2018 12: 36
        0
        Quote: Svarog
        One LLC with another LLC doesn’t


        Do you compare religion with LLC?
        1. mihey
          mihey 15 October 2018 12: 42
          +33
          In fact, he is right, unfortunately (Faith - by faith, but if money were not taken for baptism, wedding, funeral, etc.), the attitude to the Church (as a spiritual institution) would be completely different ...
          1. anykin
            anykin 15 October 2018 13: 01
            +2
            Quote: mihey
            if they didn’t take money for baptism, wedding, funeral, etc.

            that baptism, wedding and funeral service would be performed in a clean field in summer and winter.
            1. mihey
              mihey 15 October 2018 13: 16
              +20
              And who would pay for the priest's trip to the open field in a Mercedes? Is the church a representation of God on earth or not? Why does God need money? Parishioners can donate from the heart, but when a fee is set for some services ... it's somehow not divine. Consecration of cars and pets especially amuses me - any whim for your money. Insanity is simple.
              1. anykin
                anykin 18 October 2018 10: 23
                0
                Quote: mihey
                And who would pay for the priest's trip to the open field in a Mercedes?

                Well, definitely not you, "if for baptism, wedding, funeral service and so on, they did not take money"
            2. Ural-4320
              Ural-4320 15 October 2018 14: 04
              +4
              It would be possible to baptize a baby at home, and marry and sing the deceased.
              Quite recently, about 2-3 years ago, the Russian Orthodox Church in the Kaliningrad Region stated that all the churches in the region belong to it. Given that this is the territory of East Prussia, where Orthodoxy was not, it is very funny to hear it. Particularly surprised were those who restored the destroyed churches to their original appearance. And there are a lot of ordinary people, as well as communities, of which a lot came to Russia under the EBN.
              And the question here is no longer in religion, the Russian people are patient, how many are in the statement of those who are to these buildings (anonymize real estate) in general with no one.
              Well, how now to relate to what the Russian Orthodox Church is doing?
              1. Arh
                Arh 15 October 2018 16: 54
                -2
                Guys, let's unite against fascism and false Ukrainian priests !!!
              2. anykin
                anykin 18 October 2018 10: 15
                0
                Quote: Ural-4320
                It would be possible to baptize a baby at home, and marry and sing the deceased.

                No problem. By all arrival we will come to your home for Sunday service.
                1. Ural-4320
                  Ural-4320 18 October 2018 16: 08
                  0
                  That is, in order to perform the sacrament of the rite, it is necessary to collect stadiums?
                  1. anykin
                    anykin 18 October 2018 17: 47
                    0
                    Church service, this is not a rite, but a rite, this is a joint prayer.
          2. Detective
            Detective 15 October 2018 14: 33
            +4
            Quote: mihey
            In fact, he is right, unfortunately (Faith - by faith, but if they didn’t take money for baptism, wedding, funeral, etc.), the attitude to the Church (as a spiritual institution) would be completely different ..

            But what, do churches exist in our world ?! Even just paying utility bills - light, gas ... Already tired of these tales and well, people would just not know, but it is repeated from time to time more than once! The main income of any church is donations for candles, writing names in synodics, fulfillment of requirements and registered notes. All this is good if it compensates for utilities, the salaries of the clergy and employees (choir, accountant, cleaners ...). This is the minimum staff and the minimum salary for more is not enough. Any development is charity and publishing, needlework, and agriculture. Distribution of books and church utensils is Sunday schools, orphanages, feeding and supplying clothing to the poor ... With the restoration, reconstruction, construction, the state can help but often only partially and not always. Basically, these are complex projects and most of the time is sponsorship. Not every church receives the attention of society and the state. The latter mainly assists in the restoration of famous temples. Well, charity is not supported by us at the legislative level. And yet - all churches, like any legal entity, pay taxes. For example, the income of individuals and social benefits ... And for example, fines are imposed on temples and monasteries for late payment of settlements to the Pension Fund! There are privileges for some tax items.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 15 October 2018 14: 45
              +11
              Quote: Detective
              The main income of any church is donations for candles,

              Are you so naive or something else? laughing ETOGES how many candles do you need to sell in order to ride a Ferari or on a helicopter?
            2. Ural-4320
              Ural-4320 15 October 2018 16: 15
              +4
              This is all true. But do not you think that the number of donations is such that they built up the whole country with churches in the same way as microdistricts? And this is not a church, but a solid structure.
              And everyone pays taxes, even the dead. My wife's nephew 16 years ago, two years ago, was hit by an electric train, but the tax authorities had already sent letters with invoices twice last year and this year.
            3. Reserve buildbat
              Reserve buildbat 15 October 2018 18: 06
              +8
              Question one: Who told you the tale that priests pay taxes? They "do not engage in commercial activities, but live on donations" at a rate laughing
              Question two: On what basis do all sorts of places of worship bring income to the priests, and the costs of their maintenance (restoration, construction, heating and other utilities) are borne by the regional authorities? That is, "the cathedral belongs to the church," but this building was taken from some real organization (for example, part of the territory and buildings were taken by the priests from our 354th district evacuation hospital on the grounds that there used to be a monastery there), but it pays " communal apartment "for these buildings, the city administration. Again, local authorities build or "restore" some kind of religious building for the taxes of citizens. And no one is interested in the fact that Muslims, Catholics, Jews, atheists and representatives of other confessions are not obliged to pay out of their own pocket (part of taxes) for the construction of an Orthodox church (the next one, and, as always, closer to the city center, where land is more expensive).
              1. Veryu
                Veryu 16 October 2018 15: 44
                -1
                Have you ever been to a church? We were interested in how they live. Or "stories" only?
                1. Reserve buildbat
                  Reserve buildbat 16 October 2018 15: 54
                  +2
                  Been there more than once. In 1995. even "worked at the temple." By the way, they paid well. I watched how a priest eats fried chicken during Lent, how the "Archbishop of Yekaterinburg and Verkhoturye" cuts off the Easter Vigil, and the servants discuss that there is only a box of white wine, and a few red ones. The archbishop only drinks white, so he is in a hurry. laughing Just looking at the life of the priests from the inside, I sent the ROC to the forest laughing By the way, in Yekaterinburg, the priests called a piece of Tolmachev Street, where the bishop's residence is, "the holy quarter". And for several years from the facade of this residence, the sign “Jewelry Salon“ Transformation. ”By the way, the building was built for the priests and, as always, at the expense of taxes.
          3. Serge Gorely
            Serge Gorely 15 October 2018 15: 23
            +8
            Quote: mihey
            In fact, he is right, unfortunately (Faith - by faith, but if money were not taken for baptism, wedding, funeral, etc.), the attitude to the Church (as a spiritual institution) would be completely different ...

            I somehow forgot that Ukraine is not the first case. When in the 90s the Orthodox parishes of Estonia began to be rewritten under the rule of Constantinople, our priests did not care, and this apparently did not threaten the split in the Orthodox world. Although - there were more important things: the duty-free trade of vinyl and tobacco, the canonization of the king - a sectarian ...
          4. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 15 October 2018 18: 29
            -1
            Quote: mihey
            In fact, he is right, unfortunately (Faith - by faith, but if money were not taken for baptism, wedding, funeral, etc.), the attitude to the Church (as a spiritual institution) would be completely different ...

            The church takes not very big money, and the biggest money is given to it for nothing, we give it to ourselves. In a moment of despair often. When it hurts and there is nobody to help. It is a shame for me as a baptized person that the Church does not express her attitude to the prospects of the state development. After all, the state includes people as well. These are parishioners donating to the temple.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          5. Ham
            Ham 16 October 2018 11: 17
            -1
            "" "unfortunately (Faith - by faith, but if they did not take money for baptism, wedding, funeral service, etc., the attitude towards the Church (as a spiritual institution) would have been completely different" ""
            about this the scripture says: "God is God, and Caesar is Caesar's" ...
            and it’s not God who takes the money from you, but only his unworthy shepherds ... people go to church not to POPU but to GOD
            MONEY TAKES EVERYTHING - that priests, that mullahs, that the priests of the god Telitapoki
            1. mihey
              mihey 16 October 2018 11: 31
              0
              Are you distorting the meaning of the above quotation from the scriptures? It specifically deals with the differences between spiritual and secular power. And about money and "unworthy shepherds", in fact, was my post. And, really, it doesn't matter what religion these pastors represent.
              1. Ham
                Ham 16 October 2018 11: 45
                +1
                The point is that priests are just people, with all the needs and weaknesses inherent in people ...
                and if a person wants to find God, then he goes to God and does not complex about the price of rituals that he pays "for food" to the clergy ...
                1. mihey
                  mihey 16 October 2018 12: 00
                  +1
                  And having made a scourge of ropes, he drove out of the temple all, [also] both sheep and oxen; and he scattered money with the exchangers, and overturned their tables. And he said to the selling doves: Take this from here and do not make My Father’s house a house of commerce. (John 2: 13-16)

                  The essence of my understanding and understanding of the church today is in this quoted phrase. I state the fact that the church is a house of commerce through its ministers, and, accordingly, is not complex.
                  PS: Let's not measure who knows what more. I have the honor. hi
                  1. Ham
                    Ham 16 October 2018 12: 09
                    0
                    you confuse sour with fresh ... the passage quoted by you does not correspond to your charges since The Savior said these words when he came to Jerusalem and saw the decline of Faith there ... temples were turned into bazaars and livestock was kept at the altars and not in the barn ...
                    you apparently read the scripture and should know that the system of PAYMENT FOR RITES is written in the BIBLE in great detail
                    1. mihey
                      mihey 16 October 2018 12: 31
                      +1
                      What are you? And what "system of payment for rituals is spelled out in the Bible"? Maybe you mean tithing, it's completely different. We can only talk about VOLUNTARY donations for the conduct of a particular ceremony. And here is the fee (fixed rate) for ceremonies, candles, icons, etc. - it has a very definite name "simony".
                      PS: Sorry, further I see no reason to continue the discussion.
                      1. Ham
                        Ham 16 October 2018 13: 28
                        0
                        and "simony" in your opinion is not spelled out in the Bible? really tie up with talking about scripture ...
                      2. mihey
                        mihey 16 October 2018 13: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Ham
                        PAYMENT FOR RITUALS spelled out in the BIBLE in great detail

                        and "simony" in your opinion is not spelled out in the Bible?

                        Probably, you and I have read different Bibles), so you should have known that "simony" is a sin, which, in fact, the modern hierarchs of the ROC-MP quite unambiguously interpret - no fee for ceremonies, only VOLUNTARY DONATION. Good luck in your attempts to show your illiteracy.
        2. novel66
          novel66 15 October 2018 12: 42
          +11
          Wanek hi godlessness is the darkness of the soul. Sartre "A man has a hole in his soul the size of God, and everyone fills it as best he can."
          1. Random
            Random 15 October 2018 12: 55
            +4
            Quote: Vanek
            Do you compare religion with LLC?

            This is for "the people who must live on 3.5 thousand and eat .... macaroshki", religion, but for them it is ... LLC, or rather CJSC wink
            Karl Marx, introduction to the work "Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Law" - "....... religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a ruthless world, just as it is the spirit of heartless regimes. Religion is the opium of the people." hi
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 13: 44
            +8
            Quote: novel xnumx
            godlessness is the darkness of the soul. Sartre "A man has a hole in his soul the size of God, and everyone fills it as best he can."

            And in the United States, the Satanist Order was allowed in schools. Now they have it - the official religion. Even chaplains of the Order of Satan appeared in the US Army. And in elementary schools you can choose between Jesus and Satan.
            According to the authors of the program, this will help to avoid evangelical zombies of children in the lower grades by Christian values ​​and provide them with the opportunity to get acquainted with satanic wisdom.
          3. Vanek
            Vanek 16 October 2018 03: 10
            -2
            Quote: novel xnumx
            godlessness is the darkness of the soul


            Svarog, by its definition, has no right to express itself in this way.

            Quote: novel xnumx
            everyone fills it as best he can.


            yes

            Novel hi
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Svarog
          Svarog 15 October 2018 13: 07
          +7
          Quote: Vanek
          Do you compare religion with LLC?

          Why religion, religion has nothing to do with it ... And the fact that this is an organization that makes money is a fact .. Or do you think differently?
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 16 October 2018 03: 17
            -1
            Quote: Svarog
            Or do you think differently?


            On the massif, we have been building a church for the ninth year.

            For donations.

            This is not making money.

            - I think so.*

            Vladimir hi
        5. alexmach
          alexmach 15 October 2018 13: 28
          +3
          Do you compare religion with LLC?

          The comparison is not correct. LLC at least pays taxes on activities.
          1. Detective
            Detective 15 October 2018 14: 35
            -1
            The church pays taxes! Stop talking nonsense!
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 15 October 2018 15: 02
              +8
              Quote: Detective
              The church pays taxes! Stop talking nonsense!

              What does the Russian Orthodox Church pay taxes?
              The ROC has never paid taxes on obligatory, but unofficial "donations" of believers.
            2. Serge Gorely
              Serge Gorely 15 October 2018 15: 27
              +6
              Quote: Detective
              The church pays taxes! Stop talking nonsense!


              Art. 381 of the Tax Code of the Russian Federation exempts the church from paying property tax, but only with respect to that movable and immovable property that is directly used for religious activities. A church dormitory, a corps for a fraternity, etc., will already be subject to this tax in the same amount as for other Russian taxpayers. But there is one thing here: property tax is regional, which means, in accordance with the Tax Code of the Russian Federation, Art. 12, paragraph 3, entities can independently determine its size for non-profit payers. For religious organizations, it is made equal to zero. - Read more on FB.ru: http://fb.ru/article/323329/platit-li-tserkov-nalogi-v-rossii-otvet-spetsialista
            3. New Year day
              New Year day 15 October 2018 17: 23
              +4
              Quote: Detective
              The church pays taxes!

              to whom?
            4. Vanek
              Vanek 16 October 2018 03: 19
              -1
              Quote: Detective
              The church pays taxes!


              Why?

              With the sale of candles?
        6. New Year day
          New Year day 15 October 2018 14: 57
          +3
          Quote: Vanek
          Do you compare religion with LLC?

          somewhere near. The Russian Orthodox Church does not pay 18% VAT on its products - candles, books, videos, construction works, etc.
          Also, property tax, land tax, income tax (contributions, donations, gifts) are not paid.
          Only transport tax and excise tax are paid.
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 16 October 2018 03: 20
            -1
            Quote: Silvestr
            somewhere near


            Here it is still possible to consider. But no matter how LLC.

            Sylvester hi
        7. Sidor the Fierce
          Sidor the Fierce 16 October 2018 04: 33
          +1
          not LLC- and organized crime groups !!!
      2. figwam
        figwam 15 October 2018 12: 49
        +7
        Quote: Svarog
        One LLC with another LLC which is not divided

        Any country is also a big "LLC". So what? Or is my hut on the edge, I don't know anything?
        The thing is different, in the case of an attack on the temples, collisions can occur and Bandera again can kill many people.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. figwam
            figwam 15 October 2018 13: 23
            +5
            Quote: Svarog
            So the ROC needs to act on the commandments .. turn his cheek ..

            I know that
            "If they hit on the right cheek, substitute the left one, but don't let them hit"

            And what do you really think that the whole thing is only in ownership? Then you think very narrowly.
        2. Random
          Random 15 October 2018 13: 27
          +2
          Quote: figvam
          So what? Or my hut from the edge, I don’t know anything?

          And who prevented "to bring to life" -... "go ahead, give permission to send troops" ... "Yes, please ..." and ... request
          And there would be no "attacks" and "victims", etc. etc. (and Bandera's the same wassat ).
          And what do we end up with? ... "that's right .... what do we have, or rather .... someone as a result .. have" recourse
          And the second ... article quote - "..... may become" a pretext for a new invasion of Ukraine. "... who is in the way and what .... to give (for their part) along the entire contact line (at the location of the dill) from all the trunks and ..... "no dill and no .. problems" laughing and let the Donets clean up further soldier
          What .. we are afraid of sanctions ... so it’s already higher than the roof ... to spoil relations with someone else. So already .. what else request (Crimea is ours .... someone "vyaknul"?) wassat
          For some reason, the Americans are quietly doing what ... they are doing, and we ... oh yes ... I forgot (children, wives and relatives, real estate, ships and planes ... there wassat )
        3. alexmach
          alexmach 15 October 2018 13: 34
          -4
          The thing is different, in the case of an attack on the temples, collisions can occur and Bandera again can kill many people.

          There is no one there to kill. My father-in-law is a parishioner in the church at the Kremenets Convent. Kremenets is a small town in the Ternopil region, practically in the center of ragulism. No one will be killed when this monastery is squeezed out - there are all locals, aka parishioners, and so on. There, the priests and nuns will get the maximum, and even then they may have the opportunity to "cross themselves". Next to it is the Pochaev Lavra - also controlled by the UOCMP, and located in western Ukraine ...
        4. New Year day
          New Year day 15 October 2018 15: 00
          +6
          Quote: figvam
          The thing is different, in the case of an attack on the temples, collisions can occur and Bandera again can kill many people.

          this varinat is not excluded, but what can the Russian Federation do? Nothing.
          18 years ago, when gifted people were placed as ambassadors to Ukraine, then it was necessary to think.
          Reference: fishermen from Kerch are still under arrest in Ukrian
      3. Nasrat
        Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 03
        +9
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Amer decided to rise again in the war

        One LLC with another LLC didn’t divide something, how can people be drawn into the war because of this?



        "PEOPLES - FOR PEACE; CHURCH - FOR WAR." ANNOUNCER OF THE NEWSPAPER NEWSPAPER №18 FROM MAY 1, 1941


        True, in June 1941 there will be an appeal where the words will be: - Brothers and sisters .....

        which means trouble ..... -and your notorious "LLC" will turn into your last hope ...
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 15 October 2018 13: 09
          +3
          Quote: Nasr
          ANNOUNCER OF THE NEWSPAPER NEWSPAPER №18 FROM MAY 1, 1941

          In July 1941 the newspaper was quickly covered up, forever, and before that it was ......Brothers and sisters, with a fright.
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 15 October 2018 13: 18
          +2
          Quote: Nasr
          which means trouble ..... -and your notorious "LLC" will turn into your last hope ...

          Now, below the poverty line, more than 20 mil live in Russia. man .. Do you think they need hope and who do they trust in?
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 23
            0
            Quote: Svarog
            Quote: Nasr
            which means trouble ..... -and your notorious "LLC" will turn into your last hope ...

            Now, below the poverty line, more than 20 mil live in Russia. man .. Do you think they need hope and who do they trust in?

            I really hope that they don’t trust in the Communists ... After all, thanks to them they became poor ... You still tell me that the Gorbachevs with the Yeltsins, Kravchuk and others, were not communists .... But nobody drags people to the church by force .. They go themselves and raise temples, those temples that the Communists destroyed in thousands, that is, they restore again, spend resources on what the Communists destroyed ...



            1. Random
              Random 15 October 2018 13: 31
              0
              Quote: Nasr
              were not communists ..

              And Vladimir Vladimirovich ....? wink ..Yes that you ... no and never wassat
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 33
                -5
                Quote: Random
                Quote: Nasr
                were not communists ..

                And Vladimir Vladimirovich ....? wink ..Yes that you ... no and never wassat

                Here, here ... I’m saying-the trial should be over the Communists .. and sooner or later it will be ...
                And GDP will be justified for the restoration of statehood in Russia
                1. tatra
                  tatra 15 October 2018 13: 46
                  +2
                  Here, behold, your freedom of speech, which your anti-Soviet clique was so thirsty for, which after your destruction of the USSR, socialism, communist rule, and therefore "and now it is better than in the USSR" that all of you have enriched yourself by robbing the republics of the USSR you have captured and their peoples are slanderous accusations of some people in crimes, and justification of real crimes and criminals.
                  You slandered the Communists, and acquitted the invaders of Russia and the Soviet Union of the invaders and Nazis, collaborators of the Civil and Great Patriotic War, ALL criminals who went through the Gulag for 30 years, those who covered themselves with your deceitful and hypocritical anti-Soviet from the end of the 80s and plundered the former republics of the USSR, robbed peoples, staged the genocide of peoples of tens of millions of people.
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 53
                    -5
                    Ha ha ha ... the Communists always have someone to blame ... but not them. While in power, blame some liberals for the devastation of the 90s ... Admit the Communists that they deliberately betrayed those who were the first to attack in the Second World War ... after all, 20 million members of the CPSU led a country called the USSR .. 20 million members, most in leadership positions !!! And the liberals, of which units at the time, are to blame !!!! this is not heard at all!
                    1. tatra
                      tatra 15 October 2018 14: 00
                      -1
                      This is YOUR life credo, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people - "and we always have nothing to do with everything." This is also a consequence of your cosmopolitanism-selfishness, and monstrous cowardice, and the complete lack of a sense of responsibility for your words and actions. You want, as occupiers and colonialists, to own the country, clinging to it with a stranglehold, and you will never give up the republics of the USSR that you have captured peacefully, and not bear the slightest responsibility for the fact that you have been since the late 80s, when one of you -Gorbachev, with the help of your eternal lies and hypocrisy, seized power, and gave you freedom of speech and action, and you immediately began to plant your evil anti-Sovietism / Russophobia, create separatist Popular Fronts, unleash wars, enrich yourself at the expense of the country and the people, created with the country and the people.
                      1. bober1982
                        bober1982 15 October 2018 14: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: tatra
                        and monstrous cowardice

                        Themselves as hamsters hammered in holes in those tragicomic times (August putsch), and now you also blame, dear Irina
                      2. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 14: 10
                        0
                        Here is the eternal cowardly response of the enemies of the communists to all accusations by them - according to the principle of "defending oneself by attacking others", "oneself" ..
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 09
                        0
                        Quote: tatra
                        This is YOUR life credo, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people - "and we always have nothing to do with everything." This is also a consequence of your cosmopolitanism-selfishness, and monstrous cowardice, and the complete lack of a sense of responsibility for your words and actions. You want, as occupiers and colonialists, to own the country, clinging to it with a stranglehold, and you will never give up the republics of the USSR that you have captured peacefully, and not bear the slightest responsibility for the fact that you have been since the late 80s, when one of you -Gorbachev, with the help of your eternal lies and hypocrisy, seized power, and gave you freedom of speech and action, and you immediately began to plant your evil anti-Sovietism / Russophobia, create separatist Popular Fronts, unleash wars, enrich yourself at the expense of the country and the people, created with the country and the people.

                        Verbiage is from lofty words .... FACTS are just shouting - the Communists are guilty of the genocide of the Russian people in the period of the 90s .. I'm not talking about problems until the 90th year ..
                      4. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 14: 19
                        +3
                        Well, that's what I wrote about. The freedom of speech that the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people longed for from their benefactor Gorbachev is CRIME before his country and people, and before the rule of law, and before the age-old rules and values ​​of mankind.
                        And, unlike all peoples in the world, including the Soviet communists and their supporters, they DO NOT have a history of their country, only an evil, totally deceitful, slanderous, hypocritical, cowardly, delusional ANTI-Soviet / Russophobia with a "complex of never and innocent victims. " And having rejected, slandered, the heroes of the Soviet period, they themselves do not have a single normal hero - only anti-Soviet-Russophobic.
                        AND NOTHING Russian / Russian enemies of the Communists are no different from Ukrainian enemies of the Communists.
                      5. Svarog
                        Svarog 15 October 2018 14: 35
                        +8
                        Quote: Nasr
                        ACTS just screaming - the communists are guilty of the genocide of the Russian people in the period of the 90s

                        You are completely exhausted in my opinion .. signed up, take a rest .. Leave the museum B, N, Yeltsin already .. laughing Pension reform is a striking "achievement" of today's government .. that's where the genocide is ..
                      6. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Nasr
                        ACTS just screaming - the communists are guilty of the genocide of the Russian people in the period of the 90s

                        You are completely exhausted in my opinion .. signed up, take a rest .. Leave the museum B, N, Yeltsin already .. laughing

                        Is that all you can say? But Yeltsin is the same communist past ... and now you won’t get rid of it forever! He was the same as you are a communist ....
                      7. Svarog
                        Svarog 15 October 2018 14: 48
                        +8
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Nasr
                        ACTS just screaming - the communists are guilty of the genocide of the Russian people in the period of the 90s

                        You are completely exhausted in my opinion .. signed up, take a rest .. Leave the museum B, N, Yeltsin already .. laughing

                        Is that all you can say? But Yeltsin is the same communist past ... and now you won’t get rid of it forever! He was the same as you are a communist ....

                        Like everyone who is in power now ... whom you are jealously defending here ... is not it a shame? Protect those who betrayed their people?
                      8. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 08
                        +3
                        Since Gorbachev gave freedom of speech to the enemies of the communists, we have been living in their permanent Theater of the Absurd, in which, for example, one country can feed the whole world, and an enemy who has attacked a country can be defeated by shooting in the back with your soldiers, and ALL prisoners in the country for several decades can be "innocent victims".
                        So with the fact that they threw themselves under the tanks for the sake of Yeltsin, shouted with tinned throats "Yeltsin, Yeltsin", voted for him with 45 million pieces in 1991, having imposed this Yeltsin-Putin regime on Russia and the Russian people, they cowardly dump the blame and responsibility for this against the communists and their supporters.
                      9. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 18
                        -6
                        I told all the communists to judge !! And where am I protecting someone here?
                      10. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 55
                        +1
                        Slanderous accusations of people of crimes, in which the enemies of the Communists have so succeeded, is a crime.
                      11. Darony Grebenkov
                        Darony Grebenkov 15 October 2018 16: 06
                        +5
                        Quote: Nasr
                        I told all the communists to judge !!

                        Valeria Ilinichna, is that you? lol
                      12. Svarog
                        Svarog 15 October 2018 16: 33
                        +10
                        Quote: Daria Grebenkov
                        Quote: Nasr
                        I told all the communists to judge !!

                        Valeria Ilinichna, is that you? lol

                        laughing That you coolly noticed laughing he even has a similar style ..
                      13. New Year day
                        New Year day 15 October 2018 17: 24
                        +6
                        Quote: Nasr
                        I told all the communists to judge !!

                        Putin too? Following are Medvedev, Shoigu and other brethren
                      14. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 18: 38
                        -2
                        For those who do not understand well, I will repeat for the third time ... - all !!! Is it clear now?
                      15. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 31
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        For those who do not understand well, I will repeat for the third time ... - all !!! Is it clear now?

                        But what to do then ??
                      16. Darony Grebenkov
                        Darony Grebenkov 15 October 2018 15: 04
                        +5
                        Yevlampy Spiridonovich, you were not a Komsomol member, a pioneer, an October student?))
                        Quote: Nasr
                        But Yeltsin is the same communist past ... and now you won’t get rid of it forever! He was the same as you are a communist ....

                        If you were, then also do not brush off forever! laughing
                      17. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 18
                        -6
                        no, God took it away !!!
                      18. Meshcheryak
                        Meshcheryak 15 October 2018 15: 23
                        +9
                        Quote: Nasr
                        no, God took it away !!!

                        Well then, there can be no complaints against you, except that you write the word God with a small letter.
                      19. Darony Grebenkov
                        Darony Grebenkov 15 October 2018 15: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Verbiage is from lofty words .... FACTS are just shouting - the Communists are guilty of the genocide of the Russian people in the period of the 90s .. I'm not talking about problems until the 90th year ..

                        About how! wassat And Shoigu is the US Secretary of Defense! Here is the proof:
                      20. Detective
                        Detective 15 October 2018 15: 12
                        -4
                        Quote: tatra
                        when one of you, Gorbachev, with the help of your eternal lies and hypocrisy, seized power and gave you freedom of speech and action, and you immediately began to plant your evil anti-Soviet / Russophobia, create separatist Popular Fronts, unleash wars, enrich yourself for account of the country and people created with the country and people.

                        Ira, why so ?! Gorbachev is just one of you! No need to shift your "merits" onto others! And anti-Sovietism is not = Russophobia! This is now such a fashionable trend like if not a Bolshevik means a liberal! The words Russian and Russia at one time in general in the USSR were petty-bourgeois, then unpopular and generally little used! They were remembered only in the most cruel time, as well as about brothers and sisters! Well, together with Gorbachev, you and you raised a whole galaxy of traitors who destroyed and stole the country! Some Komsomol activists - cooperators - let the party steer what they cost !!!!! Since 1917, everything Russian has been persecuted in the first place - the church, culture, countryside, officers ... Remember Bukharin as your ideologist with Great Russian chauvinism and the guilt of the Russian people before everyone else! Forgot?! It's not for you to talk about Russophobia and throw such accusations! And the republics about which you have suffered so much here lived much better in "the most just and equal country" than Russia and Belarus, subsidizing the rest of the USSR. Now there is open statistics, closed, of course in the USSR, about who produced how much and who consumed how much! Only the Kyrgyz went on a par with the RSFSR and the BSSR, but for the rest of the USSR it really was a country of opportunities, and now they are so nervous that they have to live on their own!
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Ha ha ha ... the Communists always have someone to blame ... but not them.

                        I completely agree with this! I don’t really want to answer for my completely unviable experiments! Well, as for Gorbachev, each group of communists, the previous ones always became English spies, enemies of the people, pests and just traitors ... that, in principle, is not far from the truth!
                      21. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 16: 02
                        +4
                        Well, AGAIN the cowardly response of the enemies of the communists is defense through attack. The essence of the enemies of the communists on the territory of the USSR, both under Soviet power, and after their capture of the USSR, is to be AGAINST, and always and to everything "to do with it."
                      22. Claymore
                        Claymore 15 October 2018 18: 22
                        +5
                        Quote: Detective
                        Gorbachev is just one of you!
                        If you follow in the outline of this logic, it turns out that Boris Moiseev is one of you. laughing

                        And anti-Soviet is not = Russophobia!
                        But this is true.
                        Anti-Soviet is not a fear of Russians; anti-Soviet is a misanthropy.
                      23. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 34
                        +4
                        Quote: Detective
                        Well, along with Gorbachev, you and it was you who grew a whole galaxy of traitors

                        With Gorbachev, the galaxy was already ready. The collapse began with Khrushchev. Stalin - this is what you need to be proud of as a victory.
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 01
                      +4
                      Quote: Nasr
                      And the liberals, of which units at the time, are to blame !!!!

                      Plus intellectuals. Memoirs of the US ambassador to the USSR (Matlock) read who there went to bow to him. Except Yeltsin.
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 16
                        -1
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: Nasr
                        And the liberals, of which units at the time, are to blame !!!!

                        Plus intellectuals. .

                        Intelligents - hehe - were they the same 20 million? Some liquid Communists in those years were ....
                      2. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Intellectuals

                        The meaning of the word intelligent, the semantic meaning is something like "able to speak softly." In Soviet times, all people with higher education and at least a minimum of politeness were counted among the intelligentsia. Then, during perestroika, the image of a weak person, too clever, protesting against changes in the Party and in life was introduced into the public consciousness. this image was made shameful, and the word abusive. Nowadays, this word is speculated on TV shows
                2. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 15 October 2018 13: 57
                  -9
                  Quote: Nasr
                  the trial should be over the Communists .. and sooner or later it will be ..

                  Devils in hell drive the Communists. And those who are watering the Church here, will join them when the time comes.
                  1. tatra
                    tatra 15 October 2018 14: 08
                    +5
                    ALL enemies of the Communists in the USSR are fierce enemies of their country and people. You proved this by the fact that you did it under the Soviet regime, starting with the purpose of unleashing you along with the interventionists of the Civil War. the overthrow of Soviet power and the dismemberment of Russia, in which millions of Russian people died, and after the seizure of the republics of the USSR, and what you said and wrote, in particular, raging against the BEST for your country and people of Soviet power - compared with the pre-revolutionary and yours through thieves worthless anti-Soviet.
                    And by the fact that you, who are the same as a carbon copy, always rush to the same "refute" this by raging against the Soviet government, slandering it, you only prove that you are NOT capable of proving that the pre-revolutionary or your anti-Soviet government is better for your country and people than the Soviet.
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 28
                    +4
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Devils in hell drive the communists.

                    The devils in the twelfth circle of hell chase those who, hiding behind the rank of COMMUNIST, have surfaced. Like a guano in an ice hole.
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 44
                      +3
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      The devils in the twelfth circle of hell chase those who, hiding behind the rank of COMMUNIST, have surfaced. Like a guano in an ice hole.

                      now hide behind the word Elite.
                3. Darony Grebenkov
                  Darony Grebenkov 15 October 2018 14: 57
                  +4
                  Quote: Nasr
                  And GDP will be justified for the restoration of statehood in Russia

                  Will the Hague be justified? I doubt it!
                4. Random
                  Random 15 October 2018 15: 01
                  +3
                  Quote: Nasr
                  And GDP will be justified for the restoration of statehood in Russia

                  So you are for VVP "... you are speaking ... but I'm talking about Vladimir Vladimirovich ... wink
                5. Claymore
                  Claymore 15 October 2018 18: 11
                  +4
                  Quote: Nasr

                  And GDP will be justified for the restoration of statehood in Russia

                  Burns.
                  Statehood is a state system, a state organization.

                  So if anyone is justified for restoring capitalist statehood in Russia, it’s Gorbachev or Yeltsin.
            2. Svarog
              Svarog 15 October 2018 13: 33
              +7
              Quote: Nasr
              I really hope they don’t rely on the Communists ... After all, thanks to them they became poor ...

              You would be ashamed to bear such heresy ..
              Quote: Nasr
              You still tell that the Gorbachevs with Yeltsins, Kravchuk and others, were not communists.

              So Judas have always been and will be .. Moreover, everyone who is in power now, they were also communists and are the successors of the Yeltsins .. Even they build monuments to them ..
              Quote: Nasr
              And no one is dragging people into the church by force ... they go and they raise temples, those temples that the Communists destroyed by thousands, that is, they restore again, spend resources on what the Communists destroyed.

              That's right, the Communists built and developed industry, science, education .. And now they are developing what? Now they are eating up what the Communists created ... And soon this backlog will end ..
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 38
                -5
                All developed, the Communists, developed ... and the people all thumped and impoverished ..... why would it? Why would a Russian village drink too much under the communists? Why would the Communists abandon their people for long decades in their cabins?


                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 15 October 2018 13: 49
                  +8
                  Quote: Nasr
                  0
                  All developed, the Communists, developed ... and the people all thumped and impoverished ..... why would it? Why would a Russian village drink too much under the communists?

                  And now all the villages remained? All state farms, collective farms collapsed .. there are no people in the villages .. I can give you different schedules and draw a lot laughing Go outside of Moscow and see what is happening in the villages ..
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2nS5IEBzcI Вот посмотрите, сам Михалков вам проведет экскурсию по деревням России, его то вы не можете отнести к коммунистам..
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 15 October 2018 13: 59
                    -1
                    Quote: Svarog

                    And now all the villages remained? All state farms, collective farms collapsed .. there are no people in the villages .. I can give you different schedules and draw a lot laughing Go outside of Moscow and see what is happening in the villages ..
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2nS5IEBzcI Вот посмотрите, сам Михалков вам проведет экскурсию по деревням России, его то вы не можете отнести к коммунистам..

                    You just get fucked up from statistics, and Soviet:
                    Under Brezhnev, from the 1959 census to the 1979 census, 117 villages disappeared. In Soviet times, a total of 600 remained from 000 settlements, only one in four. Under Putin, there are more villages than in 152922.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 07
                      +5
                      Quote: Nasr
                      Under Putin, there are more villages than in 1989.

                      Gee-gee, it can be seen, in the summer went to two villages where my grandfathers lived. There were 10 times less houses than there were in the 80s. Fields are overgrown with weeds.
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 27
                        0
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Under Putin, there are more villages than in 1989.

                        Gee-gee, it can be seen, in the summer went to two villages where my grandfathers lived. There were 10 times less houses than there were in the 80s. Fields are overgrown with weeds.

                        It is naive to believe that all the villages, towns, villages to recover, 90 network hit hard ... and even before the 90s, they soldered the village in full. If you raise the figures for alcoholization by the Communists of the Russian village, then it may get stupid ..
                    2. tatra
                      tatra 15 October 2018 14: 42
                      +2
                      It is precisely that under the communists there was a large-scale urbanization, they inherited a peasant country by 85%, and with you, cowardly and irresponsible enemies, the communists, in ALL republics of the USSR that you have seized, large-scale degradation, including in villages, and agriculture. You destroyed a huge number of schools, hospitals, clubs, medical institutions in rural areas, took away the work of peasants, ruined agriculture. And your cowardly blaming the Communists for the guilt and responsibility for your capture of the USSR, you only prove that you captured it for criminal purposes. But if people do something with good goals, they will never blame others for it.
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 03
                        -4
                        Irina, explain then how it happened in the 90s? As a party with a huge, with a giant power apparatus - an army of 5 million, militia of 630 thousand, the KGB, the Internal Troops - where all the posts in the state were occupied by communists, not only all directors and link managers in the national economy - were also communists .. After all, 20 million members of the CPSU is power !!! and enemies into each other wassat captured the country ?? Here you are not funny? Where were the communists when their enemies captured? And I will answer you - the Communists were the very enemies ... wink
                      2. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 17
                        +3
                        If the history of the pestilence, including the history of the Russian State, has not proved anything to you, if you are not able to think, then I cannot help.
                        What Gorbachev did, in part, Putin, has already been done many times in world history, when a person who became the leader of the country began to replace people in the highest echelons of power with his own, depending on what he wants to do with the country and people.
                        We all saw how Putin at the beginning of the XNUMXs dragged his colleagues from the KGB and the St. Petersburg mayor's office to the higher echelons of power in Russia, and in the same way Gorbachev, starting with a complete change of the Politburo, replaced the real, by convictions, communists, with the same enemies as YOU Communists, for the sake of profit and crowds crawled into the CPSU, Soviet power, and for the benefit of posing as "great philanthropists" in your propaganda against the Communists.
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 32
                        0
                        Judging by your writings, the CPSU is a passage yard, and there were random people, swindlers? Moreover, to judge the Communists ... !!!! Usurped power and failed to cope with the role of leaders ...
                      4. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 40
                        +2
                        Well, that is, if YOU, the enemies of the communists, pretend to be someone, even if they are liberals, even democrats, or even "great philanthropists" in your anti-Sovietism, are not you to blame, but others?
                      5. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 16: 06
                        -3
                        Quote: tatra
                        ... pretend to be someone

                        While I see that you are pretending to be here ..
                        Better go to church ... whoever pretends to be there, sort it out yourself:


                        Zyuganov also pretends to be? Or will it become clear when he retires? What do you say, Irina, as a true communist?
                      6. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 16: 16
                        +1
                        Once again, enough for all the accusations you, the enemies of the communists, answer with malice against others. You do not know how to conduct discussions, do not torture Claudia. And YES, you, the enemies of the Communists, are doing everything strictly according to the "program" that is FAVORABLE for you. Now, if we are talking about political repressions and executions in the Russian Empire, you either justify them, or "do not notice", and if about the SAME in the USSR, you all start to pretend to be "great philanthropists", with your hypocritical "righteous anger" to present it as a crime of power, because it is FAVORABLE for you to justify the capture of the USSR.
                      7. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 16: 34
                        -3
                        but about Zyuganov they did not answer .... laughing
                        and yes ... your answers are similar to the answers of sectarians ... some kind of horror .. wassat

                        Quote: tatra
                        FAVORABLE to justify your capture of the USSR


                        wassat

                        I bring to the attention - no one captured the USSR ... It was sold by the Communists ... there were a dozen Communists who had a conscience - the State Emergency Committee, and that’s all .... and that’s out of 20 million members !!!!. shitty office was the Communist Party ..good
                      8. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 16: 39
                        +2
                        Ha, that is, the communists sold the USSR to YOU, to its external and internal enemies, who always have nothing to do with everything?
                        What kind of communists were these who, even after the prohibition of the CPSU by Yeltsin, call themselves communists?
                      9. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 16: 44
                        0
                        Quote: tatra
                        Ha, that is, the communists sold the USSR to YOU, to its external and internal enemies, who always have nothing to do with everything?

                        Yes, yes ... they sold me everything .. wassat and the inscription was written ... wassat here are the insidious communists !!!

                        I’m saying - you have a sect there ..
                      10. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 16: 52
                        +1
                        So, to summarize, if you, the enemies of the communists, categorically do not want to take responsibility for your seizure of the republics of the USSR, then you do not have the slightest RIGHT to own them. You had no right to destroy anything Soviet and plant your anti-Soviet, you had no right after 1991 to receive your large and huge incomes and salaries, because of which all of you, and now it is better than in the USSR, and, to the topic of the article, - you had no right to implant your religion, and give the churchmen huge money from the country's budget, again, like in the Russian Empire, create the richest Church, carry out church repressions.
                        All the best, don’t be sick ..
                      11. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 18: 45
                        -3
                        Quote: tatra
                        So, to summarize, if you, the enemies of the communists, categorically do not want to take responsibility for your seizure of the republics of the USSR, then you do not have the slightest RIGHT to own them. You had no right to destroy anything Soviet and plant your anti-Soviet, you had no right after 1991 to receive your large and huge incomes and salaries, because of which all of you, and now it is better than in the USSR, and, to the topic of the article, - you had no right to implant your religion, and give the churchmen huge money from the country's budget, again, like in the Russian Empire, create the richest Church, carry out church repressions.
                        All the best, don’t be sick ..

                        Hehe ... money for the church from the budget ?? ... Hehe ... would you keep silent about the money from the budget ... so much money from the USSR budget was spent on all CheGevars around the world .. - those that from your sect, so it’s not climbing into any gates .. but the Russian peasant paid for everything ...
                      12. New Year day
                        New Year day 15 October 2018 17: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Nasr
                        The CPSU is a courtyard, and there were random people, swindlers?

                        exactly like United Russia. There, by the way, most of the "commies"
                      13. New Year day
                        New Year day 15 October 2018 17: 28
                        +4
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Irina, explain how it happened ..

                        Quote: Nasr
                        because 20 million members of the CPSU is power !!! and in a friend wassat enemies captured the country ??

                        Read the biographies of Putin, Medvedev, Yeltsin. You will be surprised, but they were communists, and not simple. One of them was obliged to protect the statehood of the USSR. So the enemies are known. It's just that one "communists" seized power from other "communists"
                      14. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 29
                        +4
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Irina, explain then how it happened in the 90s?

                        Can I try to tell you briefly what happened in the nineties? I'll start from afar: After the well-known doctrine of Allen Dulles, institutes studying the USSR were created in the USA. Agents were introduced into the party leadership, many of whom were used in the dark (they were used without their knowledge, on weaknesses). In view of some isolation of the USSR, the lack of control of the Internal Affairs bodies and the KGB over the top functionaries of the Central Committee of the district and higher levels (Khrushchev's innovation, not canceled), the Party began to degenerate. To conceal the mistakes of governing the country, a whole system of RITUALS was invented. Party meetings more and more resembled a meeting of sectarians with monotonous readings of eulogies of the Party and the Next General Secretary ... there was no scientific analysis of the social state of society, the planning system (which previously provided an advantage in growth over the United States) also degraded due to the degradation of the top. Read at your leisure, for example, the Kosygin-Lieberman reform. But we could have had an analogue of the Internet 10 years earlier than America. Thus, after the "golden five-year plan" of the young Brezhnev (who died, by the way, for the same reason as Elvis Presley - a bust of barbiturates), and in 1970 everything was in stores and there was money, the country gradually approached to 1980 self-financing and self-financing (if you remember from childhood), which caused a wild imbalance in the industry and a shortage of many small necessities. Against the background of the high intellectual level of the average Soviet person, there were still many engineers, party demagogy and quibbling made a depressing impression. And then an ideological attack began. Yakovlev, the main propagandist, who spent 6 months in Canada, Gorbachev, the highest party position, hating the country, AS ON NOTES they played first the fight against alcoholism by cutting down vineyards, the army leaders were cut off by Matthias Rust, the ramified network of ideological workers was neutralized with the INFO AIDS mantra, the usual pro-Marxist newspaper market relations were covered by the capture of the domestic market and the occupation of the country .. The key figures were recruited by privatization ...
                        It’s just that fools couldn’t do that in a coordinated way.
                        party leaders, discredited the idea of ​​universal social equality, and threw civilization back.
                    3. tatra
                      tatra 15 October 2018 16: 11
                      +4
                      So are you defending a member of the CPSU Putin, or are you also calling on him to judge?
                    4. albert
                      albert 15 October 2018 20: 27
                      +2
                      Quote: Nasr
                      Under Brezhnev, from the 1959 census to the 1979 census, 117 villages disappeared.

                      Hey, smart guy, do you know the word urbanization? If not, take a dictionary book and read it. negative negative negativeAnd why on earth did Brezhnev rule in 1959? fool
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 15: 04
                  +6
                  Quote: Nasr
                  Why would the Communists abandon their people for long decades in their cabins?

                  In the cabins? My dad got an apartment of 84 squares for a family of four. Such a good change house, nothing to say.
                3. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 15 October 2018 18: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Nasr
                  Why would the Communists abandon their people for long decades in their cabins?

                  you brought the schedule there .... but is it possible the same schedule until 1960 ??? the fact is that until 1960 the country was still moving by the inertia of Stalinist rhythms, and after that it was already different. The USSR in different years is a different country.
              2. tatra
                tatra 15 October 2018 13: 51
                +3
                If the true, by convictions, communists and their supporters, what the beliefs were 100 years ago, have remained so now, then the enemies of the communists on the territory of the USSR pretended to be whoever during these 100 years, both "loyal communists" and "ideological anti-communists" , and monarchists, and liberals, and democrats, and "great philanthropists" in their propaganda against the communists, and they were NOT ONE of this, because they have neither conscience, nor convictions, nor moral principles, but only in everything and always benefit ...
            3. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 13: 50
              +2
              Quote: Nasr
              they go themselves and raise the temples, those temples that the Communists destroyed in thousands, that is, they restore again, spend resources on what the Communists destroyed ...

              My hometown was founded in the 20s. What ruined temples? One church was made on the site of a cinema, the other - on the site of a cafe-tavern. Popov Monastery - on the site of vocational schools, where they taught masons, carpenters and crane operators.
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 04
                -1
                Volodya, traveling around Russia, find out the history of your country, eyes will be opened to many things.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 17
                  +4
                  Quote: Nasr
                  Volodya, traveling around Russia, find out the history of your country, eyes will be opened to many things.

                  Do you think that I don’t know the history of my native country? In 1990, the USSR had one and a half thousand airports. Now it’s less than 250. Yes, any collective farmer could fly to a neighboring village. And now? Well this is necessary; there are fewer airfields throughout Russia than in Alaska alone. But the churches spawn. Ugh!
                  1. tatra
                    tatra 15 October 2018 14: 25
                    +2
                    First, the enemies of the Communists in the USSR proved by their own example that religion does not make anyone honest, kinder, more humane, smarter.
                    Secondly, it is an axiom that after the destruction of the atheistic USSR and the spread of religion by the enemies of the Communists in the republics of the USSR they seized, a monstrous decline in morality occurred in the territory of the USSR, the value of human lives sharply depreciated.
                  2. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Quote: Nasr
                    Volodya, traveling around Russia, find out the history of your country, eyes will be opened to many things.

                    Do you think that I don’t know the history of my native country? In 1990, the USSR had one and a half thousand airports. Now it’s less than 250. Yes, any collective farmer could fly to a neighboring village. And now? Well this is necessary; there are fewer airfields throughout Russia than in Alaska alone.

                    By the way, there were fewer airfields in the USSR than in the United States — in the United States, 19 aerodromes and airports operate in civil aviation, and 000 in the USSR. will ugh do?
                    Here it’s necessary to think about who is to blame for this - who was in power, who led up to the 90th ... and I hope there’s no need to explain the fact that the 90s didn’t come overnight ... These 90s back in the early 80s ... The facts also speak about this ... study a little deeper ...
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: Nasr
                      Here it’s necessary to think about who is to blame for this - who was in power, who led up to the 90th ... and I hope there’s no need to explain the fact that the 90s didn’t come overnight ... These 90s back in the early 80s ... The facts also speak about this ... study a little deeper ...

                      So it would not hurt you to find out how Yeltsin went to bow to Rothschild in the 89th.
                      "The religious leader also added that now the Church owns 36,878 thousand operating churches, 462 male and 482 female monasteries, 303 dioceses (including those in the far abroad)."
                      Get fucked up, don't get up. Four divisions of parasites.
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 14: 51
                        -2
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx

                        So it would not hurt you to find out how Yeltsin went to bow to Rothschild in the 89th.

                        So Yeltsin from the Communists ... he later repainted, but the CPSU introduced him into power ... so think ... in your own words you have confirmed that the Communists must answer for the 90s!

                        Quote: mordvin xnumx

                        "The religious leader also added that now the Church owns 36,878 thousand operating churches, 462 male and 482 female monasteries, 303 dioceses (including those in the far abroad)."
                        Get fucked up, don't get up. Four divisions of parasites.


                        They have such a right .. at least they do not plump and do not push people to atrocities ..
                      2. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 14: 59
                        +4
                        Well, yes, and the benefactor of the Russian enemies of the communists, Yeltsin, and joining the CPSU said that he was for capitalism, for the Americans? Did he confess that he is a religious person? Or was he pretending to be a supporter of socialism and Soviet power? IN WHAT case was Yeltsin real, under the USSR, or under your "freedom", enemies of the communists?
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 09
                        -3
                        Quote: tatra
                        Well, yes, and the benefactor of the Russian enemies of the communists, Yeltsin, and joining the CPSU said that he was for capitalism, for the Americans? Did he confess that he is a religious person? Or was he pretending to be a supporter of socialism and Soviet power? IN WHAT case was Yeltsin real, under the USSR, or under your "freedom", enemies of the communists?

                        Who accepted him in the party, Irina? Who vouched for him? Non-party, or what? so let's don’t turn away from our own people, he’s all your communist ... the party raised him like that ... the party of the CPSU
                      4. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 45
                        +2
                        Learn to lead a discussion, not just criticize and be AGAINST. I did not ask you a question so that you would answer a question with it. What kind of Yeltsin is the real one under the CPSU, or together with you raving against the CPSU, FORBIDDING the CPSU, thanks to which the Russian enemies of the Communists in the 90s, from officials and oligarchs to priests and bandits, raped them big and huge, compared to the impoverished Russian people , salaries and income?
                      5. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 16: 19
                        -3
                        Once again, I repeat to you - Yeltsin is a communist, a product of his time ... Yes, look at Zyuganov and everything will become clear ...
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 15: 08
                        +5
                        Quote: Nasr
                        at least they do not plump and do not push people to atrocities.

                        Gee-gee. Pop went to business, I wanted to drink ...
                    2. tatra
                      tatra 15 October 2018 14: 45
                      +4
                      Ha, that's right, the enemies of the communists are AFRAID to honestly compare the results of their highly paid work with the results of the work of the Soviet communists and their supporters, they immediately "switch the arrows".
                    3. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 14: 54
                      +6
                      Quote: Nasr
                      will ugh do?

                      Will! When S. Sotnikov was awarded the Order of Courage, Putin asked him why, he actually looked after the runway, where the pilots landed the plane, when all their instruments had failed. He replied: "I believe in the revival of small aircraft in Russia!" Now he no longer believes. All. The miracle ended on Izhma. For 12 years he took care of this strip at his own request, saved 81 lives. Who among the churchmen can boast of such a thing?
                      http://www.aif.ru/society/people/chudo_na_izhme_kak_zhivyot_sergey_sotnikov_spasshiy_81_cheloveka_i_samolyot
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 12
                        +2
                        How many ministers of the church saved the people from suicide, and no one thought ... Volodya was still bad in your life ... God forbid, but you will come to church anyway, sooner or later ...

                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 15: 22
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Volodya wasn’t in your life yet

                        Work a couple of years at a minimum, carrying several tons of cargo per day, and then you will find out how much a pound is worth when there is only enough money for a doshirak.
                        Quote: Nasr
                        but you’ll come to church anyway, sooner or later ...

                        The question is which one? A lot of them. And Zyuganov keeps his nose in the wind. By the way, to the relics of St. Matrona, or whatever it was, his priests were allowed through the back entrance, bypassing the line that stood for days. I do not consider Zyuganov to be a real communist, betraying once again betraying.
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 15: 28
                        -3
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        I do not consider Zyuganov to be a real communist, betraying once again betraying.

                        Here, the quinsistence of all our correspondence !!! All these mummers since the 60s have called themselves Communists .. but they only need a warm place in power ... and they started perestroika in order to divide the people's good among themselves .. I tell you about this - you need to judge them all communists!
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 15: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Here, the quinsistence of all our correspondence !!!

                        Well, at least here they came to a consensus of opinion, as the labeled bastard, who lives in Germany, said.
                        Quote: Nasr
                        All these mummers from the 60s call themselves Communists ..

                        Here I completely agree, they raised the Communists in WWII, left the rear rats. Although the machine gunner Yakovlev of the USSR was falling apart for a long time and hard.
                      5. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 15: 50
                        +2
                        Ha, and whom did these "communists", whom you cannot name by name, start Perestroika? Who were they afraid of, because they could just start plundering the USSR and the Soviet people, without any Perestroika. After all, the Russian people lived before the October Revolution and the peoples live on the territory of the former USSR under a thieves' richest power through and through.
                        And you yourself have now confirmed that the USSR, socialism, the CPSU, were destroyed for criminal purposes.
                      6. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 15 October 2018 16: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: tatra
                        ... because they could just start robbing the USSR and the Soviet people, without any Perestroika.

                        No, no, it’s impossible without perestroika ... The Communists should have a slogan, so they robbed with a beautiful slogan - Perestroika, glasnost .... You, I hope, organized a march with red flags, against perestroika, like a true communist back in 1985 .? wassat
                      7. tatra
                        tatra 15 October 2018 16: 35
                        +3
                        This is the Perestroika, during which you, the enemies of the communists, fled hundreds of thousands to anti-communist rallies, "hanging their ears" believed your homegrown "democrats" that "the communists destroyed 40-60-80-100 milion of the most innocent, the best, the most hard-working, the gene pool and the flower of the nation, salt and sugar of the earth, "ran to the White House to defend a member of the CPSU Yeltsin?
                      8. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 27
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        You, I hope, organized a procession with red flags, against perestroika, like a true communist back in 1985? wassat

                        Do you know who Nina Andreeva is? and her letter published under the heading "I can not waive my principles" and there were the majority of them. I remember that Komsomol meeting when we were forcibly forced to sign a condemning petition. The tops are rotten .. but people resisted. They worked against them systematically.
                      9. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 21: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        I can't give up my principles "

                        And in the 93rd there was a death letter of 42. That is exactly what I had in mind when I spoke about the intelligentsia.

                        In August 1993, 36 writers published a letter to President Boris Yeltsin in the Literaturnye Novosti newspaper, condemning the “criminal policy of the Supreme Soviet” and demanding “to hold early, no later than this fall, elections of the supreme legislative body”. [21] In 2012, journalist Alexei Semyonov assessed this letter as a call to violate the Russian Constitution [8]. On September 15, a group of letter authors (including Yuri Davydov, Rimma Kazakova, Anatoly Pristavkin, Lev Razgon, Marietta Chudakova) were invited to a meeting with Yeltsin. A week later, Boris Yeltsin dissolved parliament [22]. The writer Nikolai Fed in his book noted that at the feast with Yeltsin there were people "for whom the word" Russian "is like a red rag for a bull"
                      10. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 14
                        +3
                        Quote: Nasr
                        All these mummers from the 60s call themselves Communists.

                        That's it from the 60s !! and before them were real communists!
                      11. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 12
                        +3
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I don’t consider Zyuganov a real communist,

                        I, by the way, too, if they fought for the restoration of Stalin’s honor at least as a symbol of victories in the war and the economy, but where will they get people ??? A popular request for a leader oh how demanded !!!
                        I would donate 30 thousand rubles one-time, at the Stalin Center
                      12. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Nasr
                        How many ministers of the church saved the people from suicide

                        they save people, smart people, specialty and work experience of a thousand years. But they don’t want to save the country, are they afraid of responsibility?
                2. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 04
                  +3
                  Quote: Nasr
                  Volodya, trips around Russia, find out the history of your country, eyes will be opened to many things

                  I traveled to the former republics too. The trouble is that that part of the history of the country that you need to be proud of, we are embracing. I lived in the Magadan region. I saw the camps. Including those described by Shalamov Solzhenitsyn et al. In one such camp, where according to LITERARY data, hundreds of thousands of zc were starved and cold, I counted only 200 beds. Wood does not rot there. cold and a special kind of larch, very resinous, abandoned camp, over the trestle beds of carnations with a mug. where personal things, letters. All this crap about the Gulag. There were no millions ruined. During the war, when the supply was really poor, local red fish and gulls were harvested in huge quantities.
                  simple mathematics: political repressions 1921 - 1953 4mln700 thousand people were convicted for political reasons. For 32 years! this is according to the American MEMORIAL. According to our historians, 3 million 700 thousand
                  divide this number by 32! one hundred twenty thousand convicted per year. Given the war, Yes, in our time, drug addiction and suicide kills more!
            4. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 15 October 2018 19: 51
              +2
              Quote: Nasr
              those temples that the Communists destroyed in thousands, that is, they again restore, spend resources on what the Communists destroyed ...

              Please! Churches were robbed and destroyed (documents are available): Krasnov, Petlyura, Shkuro, Kolchak, Denikin ... The Bolsheviks only excommunicated the church from the state. Since the Second World War, there has been a warming in relations. By the way.
          2. Ros 56
            Ros 56 15 October 2018 13: 33
            0
            Well, not God, for sure. No one will give us deliverance, not God, not a king or a hero, ..... well, hereinafter.
        3. Detective
          Detective 15 October 2018 14: 37
          +5
          There are no atheists at war! And the militant atheists begin to operate with such concepts as brothers and sisters!
        4. Serge Gorely
          Serge Gorely 15 October 2018 15: 38
          +3
          Here again the whining "there are no atheists in the war" will begin. Another lie of the priests. The facts tell a different story:


          It is known that when in 1917 the Provisional Government abolished the obligatory annual sacrament, only ten percent of the servicemen of the army did their Christian duty.

          In March 1917, after the Provisional Government came to power, the compulsory communion was canceled in the army. Next Sunday, less than 20 percent of the troops came to the church, and we are talking about a country in which the church played a crucial role.

          It is known that when the Provisional Government came to power and abolished the obligatory services at the front, only 10% of soldiers began to go to churches.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 35
            +3
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            but we are talking about a country in which the church played a crucial role.

            The church in Russia after Peter 1, degraded. By the 20th century, she was one of the largest landowners. In conditions of full prosperity, they disowned state problems, taking care of their souls. But it was difficult for the people! He needs a leader. The Church could not be such a leader. And here is Lenin with the slogan "To the factories of the workers, to the LAND of the peasants!" smile united the majority. no one else suggested this. In fact, the NEP is what is now in China. Large Industry, strategically important for the state, trade and production of small things in business.
    2. vkl.47
      vkl.47 15 October 2018 15: 19
      +1
      What are they all nits
  2. Machete
    Machete 15 October 2018 12: 24
    +5
    To start a religious war? No, thank you.
    The calculation is not correct.
    1. Darony Grebenkov
      Darony Grebenkov 15 October 2018 12: 29
      +2
      Quote: Machete
      To start a religious war?

      Here, for Israel, they could also stand up ... Who doubts, remember the bin on Victory Day and related eventslaughing And at that some Orthodoxy is there ...
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 15 October 2018 13: 53
      0
      Quote: Machete
      To start a religious war? No, thank you.

      There are Satanist chaplains in the US Army. So religious war is perfectly acceptable.
      1. Machete
        Machete 15 October 2018 20: 28
        0
        And here is the USA and we? They want to pit us, so that in defense of the faith they gouge Ukraine.
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 15 October 2018 20: 37
      +3
      Quote: Machete
      To start a religious war?

      wars are either to destroy or capture markets. Sometimes for release. Religion is just motivation.
  3. Smoked
    Smoked 15 October 2018 12: 25
    +8
    A scarecrow for idiots who think that they are from the Middle Ages with feudalism in the yard.
  4. forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 15 October 2018 12: 26
    -1
    Well, there was a metropolitan in Kiev, the patriarch will become. What difference does it make?
    There is a patriarch in Serbia too ...
    1. Logall
      Logall 15 October 2018 12: 43
      +9
      There will be no patriarch in Kiev! In fact, the Patriarch of Constantinople took the schismatics under his wing ... There will be no autocephaly, now the schismatics will have a more dependent position than the UOC under the Moscow Patriarchate ... They will not even have a metropolis ...
      1. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 15 October 2018 13: 04
        0
        Quote: Logall
        There will be no patriarch in Kiev! In fact, the Patriarch of Constantinople took the schismatics under his wing ... There will be no autocephaly, now the schismatics will have a more dependent position than the UOC under the Moscow Patriarchate ... They will not even have a metropolis ...

        It’s strange. I am far from religious topics, so I had to further enlighten on this issue. On Wikipedia, forgive me this wildness.
        So, it says that after the separation of Christianity, the primacy in Orthodoxy went to the Department of Constantinople, called the Ecumenical Patriarchate or the Great Church. The Primate - the Archbishop of Constantinople - bears the title of Ecumenical Patriarch. The special status of the bishop of the new capital of the Roman Empire was secured by the decisions of the Council of Chalcedon. So it turns out as the Patriarch of Constantinople decided, so be it.
        I understand that here, first of all, the redistribution of property and spheres of influence is brewing, but I doubt that this will lead to any kind of religious wars. The Orthodox Crusades did not suit spawn.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 15 October 2018 13: 32
          +2
          Quote: forty-eighth
          called the Ecumenical Patriarchate or the Great Church

          They, the "Great" Church, in 1439 fell into heresy, having signed a union with the papists, and thus Constantinople lost the grounds for maintaining its power in Russia.
          Currently, the Patriarchate of Constantinople is completely contained by the CIA and the Vatican.
        2. Logall
          Logall 15 October 2018 14: 16
          +7
          Quote: forty-eighth
          The special status of the bishop of the new capital of the Roman Empire was secured by the decisions of the Council of Chalcedon

          We need to start with the fact that Russia received autocephaly not being baptized ... Prince Vladimir (Clear Sun), after going to Constantinople, brought to Kiev his wife (daughter of the emperor), Orthodoxy and equality with Byzantium.
          And the patriarch of Constantinople is only the first among equals, nothing more! He does not dictate the will to other dioceses. He does not have such power. And even more so, he does not have the right to remove the anathema imposed by another diocese.
          It can be removed due to the fact that it creates a dangerous precedent ... Due to the fact that Constantinople can finally undermine its authority, taking it into the care of schismatics, especially from someone else's union!
  5. Altona
    Altona 15 October 2018 12: 29
    +6
    Russia will not come to this war, not in the form of USSR-2.0, but even more so in the form of the present Kremlin. Religious schism will play a schism above all of Ukraine itself. Already, the radicals are threatening to seize the Pochaev and Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, and the faithful are going to stand up and even organize a kind of militia to protect the shrines. Ukraine itself is too large a state; it can still be split up according to the patterns of Yugoslavia.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 15 October 2018 13: 39
      -2
      I am very interested in what kind of believers will defend the Pochaev Lavra located in the Ternopil region? The same ones that were jumping on the Maidan with the words "Muscovites on knives" or what?
  6. Kerensky
    Kerensky 15 October 2018 12: 29
    +1
    I think this is a purely economic issue. Whoever promises to bring more tribute is the label.
    Some kind of confessional hatred is not observed - the issue is submission.
    The UOC is a "daughter" of ZAO "ROC", and that one is already "sending up".
  7. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 15 October 2018 12: 31
    +1
    Yes, there will be no religious war, the faith is that one Orthodox in Ukraine and the UOC MP UOCCP and UPC will take away the Lavra in Kiev quietly and other objects of the UOC MP and this will end, and to people in Ukraine, by and large, it does not matter where faith is baptized
    1. vladimirvn
      vladimirvn 15 October 2018 12: 42
      -1
      We have one church in a small town. In the 90s, a foreign Orthodox church and local representatives of the patriarchate fought for it. So the people did not care who taxied there. They were outraged only by the scandal itself.
  8. bald
    bald 15 October 2018 12: 32
    +3
    --- "... The West, led by the United States, continues to take active measures not only to split the unity of the peoples of Russia and Ukraine, but also for a real military confrontation with the dragging out of Russian troops into the internal Ukrainian conflict." --- It means they still admit that The RF Armed Forces were not there, and they are not, so then shut up your jackal.
  9. Hto tama
    Hto tama 15 October 2018 12: 33
    +5
    If our government had the political will long ago there would have been a statement for Western "friends" that if they provoke a direct confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, the first blow will be on them, so to speak, so that life does not seem like honey. angry
  10. yustas
    yustas 15 October 2018 12: 37
    +1
    I still do not understand what does the RF Armed Forces and church sections have to do with it?
    1. Smoked
      Smoked 15 October 2018 12: 47
      +1
      Well, like, they will start re-branding church property in Ukraine, there may be victims, which Russia will use as an excuse for military action. True, gentlemen from Paris are not aware of the daily casualties of shelling of the Armed Forces in the Donbass, which no one uses.
    2. nerd.su
      nerd.su 15 October 2018 13: 05
      +4
      Quote: yustas
      I still do not understand what does the RF Armed Forces and church sections have to do with it?

      It seems to me that if the churches in Ukraine are taken away from the UOC-MP, then at the request of believers in Ukraine mobile churches of the Russian Armed Forces will be landed. That’s what their purpose was, and how they were blamed! But the reconnaissance of the Airborne Forces has long made an accurate forecast, since the airborne temples have taken into service ahead of time smile

      But seriously, then nothing good. The Americans, in their strategy, or rather Brzezinski’s strategy, to divide and pit Russia and Ukraine, are completing another step ...
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 15 October 2018 12: 47
    +3
    This is another nuisance, another, but not a catastrophe for the state, a large part of the population of which relates to religion very distantly.
    We’ll show one more account to the striped ones, they will shake off and continue to spoil.
    And we will regret, deeply regret, as in the normal way, we should continue to work on restoring the country's power, in all respects.
  12. prior
    prior 15 October 2018 12: 55
    +4
    Interesting people are these Ukrainians.
    The economy and industry have collapsed.
    Politics subjugated to America.
    The army was degraded.
    Homeland, in the sense of land, was sold and betrayed.
    Faith was split.
    After all, what happens to the church is essentially a raider seizure. The capture of not only the canonical UOC, but also other existing schismatic churches of the Istanbul Church Group. And if this scam succeeds, the Shepherd of Constantinople will shear wool from Ukrainian sheep. And the initiators of this church mess Poroshenko and Denisenko will remain out of work and over time no one will ever remember about them.
    No, well, you can certainly endure, but not to the same extent ....
  13. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 15 October 2018 12: 57
    +7
    The Orthodox faith has always been the pivot of the Russian world, Russian people ..... the separation of churches is another provocation of the West, I don’t know if the Vatican is behind these, but I think it’s impossible to separate the faith, but the Church can, which they are trying to do .... Actually nothing has changed since the Middle Ages.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 15 October 2018 13: 47
      +3
      The church is one of the pillars .... spirituality, self-identification does not end there.
      The Bolsheviks created an ideology quite attractive to themselves .... could not go this way to the end.
      Anyway, when several buildings support the building, which is statehood, it will be more reliable.
  14. avia12005
    avia12005 15 October 2018 13: 05
    +2
    It seems that almost all commentators believe the citizens of Ukraine are not Russian people. And the territory of Ukraine is not Russian. That is, there are all supporters of EBNa ?! Well, well ... With your pace, after a while, the same approach will be applied to Siberia, Karelia, Bashkiria, Tatarstan and further everywhere. Chechnya is not enough for you ...
  15. Kokarev Mikhail
    Kokarev Mikhail 15 October 2018 13: 28
    +1
    "Religion is opium for the people" - And this is the concept with which BB grew up, such shit will not be dragged into the war, but internal civil society will be aggravated. And to be Pete crucified.
  16. Semurg
    Semurg 15 October 2018 13: 30
    -1
    There was a large country of the USSR and it had a single Orthodox church with a center in Moscow. Now there are independent states, and each state will have its own Orthodox church. The Muslims of the USSR now have the same management of the affairs of the Muslims of the republic in each republic. So nothing tragic happens if you do not escalate and hysteria, the final collapse of the USSR is already in the spiritual sphere.
  17. Former gasman
    Former gasman 15 October 2018 13: 39
    +2
    I propose to send schismatics to the butterfly farm to catch. The fact is that it seems to me that the schismatics want to cash in at someone else's expense. Do they want their own religion? LET THE CHURCH BE BUILT BY YOURSELF! At whose expense restored Orthodox cathedrals, churches, temples? At the expense of the parishioners! Let Poroshenko build a temple for himself, and not encroach on folk gold leaf.
  18. Maalkavianin
    Maalkavianin 15 October 2018 13: 55
    0
    There was the Russian Orthodox Church, there will be more Ukrainian. And what will change for the average believer? Never mind. As they went to temples and monasteries, they will continue to walk. And most ordinary people are not so interested in the church at all.
  19. KOCMOC
    KOCMOC 15 October 2018 14: 06
    +5
    If we assume that the United States continues to consider Ukraine a potential territory of Russia, then what they are doing there is logical and cannot be called a defeat of foreign territory, moreover, by the hands of the Ukrainians themselves.
  20. Sailor popeye
    Sailor popeye 15 October 2018 14: 36
    +1
    The Americans do not understand the depth of what is happening, and therefore cannot fully calculate the outcome of what is being planned. To understand, you need to understand what the essence of the schism is, what dogmas are and what is the meaning of the unity of the Church. Somehow they forget that Filaret (Deniseko), for the sake of fun, appropriated the title of patriarch and is in no hurry to part with him. For example, Constantinople removes the anathema from him imposed by the Russian Orthodox Church, but postpones the issuance of the tomos until "the right moment". As a result, Filaret's intermediate status is completely unclear. Head of the Diocese of the Patriarchate of Constantinople? Does he himself agree with this and is ready to wait until he becomes patriarch again? And when he becomes, he is ready to remember the name of Cyril and the other Orthodox patriarchs, what do the canons require?
    All these questions can be asked about the "head" of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church. People did not just fought for power in order to take it and give it up to please politicians. It seems that the spiders-pseudo-patriarchs will gnaw once again and will not be able to bring the politicians' plans to the end.
  21. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 15 October 2018 15: 35
    0
    For centuries, the West has been trying to poison the Russian Orthodox Church. This is evidenced by the many paid trolls on this resource. But the Church is separate from the state. It is unlikely that the Russian Federation will declare war on Constantinople, which the State Department is inciting, to Kiev. But the Cossacks will inevitably defend the Orthodox faith.
  22. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 15 October 2018 15: 55
    +1
    The Russian Orthodox Church is the largest church in the Orthodox world. Without it, Orthodoxy would be exotic like the Coptic or Assyrian Christian churches. Even the Armenian church is stronger and more numerous than the Churches of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria combined. But the Russian Orthodox Church has a difficult fate because of the theology of the Romanovs and the Bolsheviks. Only under Boris Godunov, who spent a lot of effort to introduce patriarchate in Russia, the coexistence of secular and spiritual power was harmonious. Now the Russian Orthodox Church coexists in harmony with presidential power, for the monarchy has always tried to usurp spiritual power by destroying the Patriarchate.
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 15 October 2018 16: 23
      0
      What is the matter of the Orthodox person, to which parish they determine him: Russian, Jerusalem or Armenian?
  23. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 15 October 2018 16: 18
    0
    I think that reform in the Orthodox Church is inevitable. The Roman Church was ahead of us by the millennium, going to break with Constantinople. The ambitions of Constantinople are based on the fact that this city was the capital of Byzantium, where Christianity became the state religion. But the history of Christianity passed in others in centers sacred for Orthodoxy - Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria. The ROC will not lose anything from a break with Constantinople. The Church of Jerusalem, which was the first in the Christian world and its first bishop, was Jacob, the brother of Jesus. The Russian Orthodox Church can maintain the tradition of veneration of the ancient Churches, if they support it in the conflict with Constantinople, and may become the head of the Orthodox world. There will be no religious war between the Elephant and the Pug.
  24. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 15 October 2018 16: 31
    0
    You can understand the beggar Bartholomew - there are a lot of church property and Orthodox parishioners in Ukraine. Autocephaly of the Ukrainian church is not interesting to him. Autocephaly is a carrot for Ukrainian politicians, like joining the EU and NATO. To promise is not to marry. Raskolniki, having spoiled the ROC, will receive nothing in return. The UOC will not begin to change Moscow to Constantinople - it was for soap. In our history, Orthodox Christians on the outskirts of the collapsed Russian Empire have already passed under the arm of Constantinople, but everything has returned to normal.
  25. arnulla
    arnulla 15 October 2018 16: 59
    0
    Pff ... Yes, it was already clear.
  26. Yat
    Yat 15 October 2018 17: 02
    0
    Russia "got involved" in the war in Syria. The end of the world did not come. Why, in the opinion of "non-interventionists", the end of the world will certainly come if Russia "gets involved" in the war in Ukraine?
  27. The comment was deleted.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 15 October 2018 19: 05
      -4
      Quote: Ingul
      The Kiev Patriarchate has received everything that it needs - it is recognized!

      Who told you that? The Filaret sect has not yet been recognized; you are in a hurry.
      Quote: Ingul
      with the Ecumenical Patriarchate

      Which oversees the State Department and the CIA - this must be confidently talked about.
      Quote: Ingul
      In fact, this is the historical defeat of the Russian Orthodox Church and Russia in Ukraine.

      Hurry up again, in fact-this is a complete collapse of Ukraine, and the Church does not happen to be scolded.
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok 15 October 2018 21: 37
        +1
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Ingul
        The Kiev Patriarchate has received everything that it needs - it is recognized!

        Who told you that? The Filaret sect has not yet been recognized; you are in a hurry.
        Quote: Ingul
        with the Ecumenical Patriarchate

        Which oversees the State Department and the CIA - this must be confidently talked about.
        Quote: Ingul
        In fact, this is the historical defeat of the Russian Orthodox Church and Russia in Ukraine.

        Hurry up again, in fact-this is a complete collapse of Ukraine, and the Church does not happen to be scolded.

        To listen to you so everything goes according to plan. Like when the rocket fell, the American didn’t hit the ISS, etc.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  28. asura
    asura 15 October 2018 19: 16
    +1
    Oh, again the cunning planners are in business: "We will not let Russia be drawn into the war! We will concentrate in the bushes behind the backs of women and children! (As you know who promised)."
  29. Normal ok
    Normal ok 15 October 2018 21: 35
    +1
    Western press not without satisfaction writes that the Orthodox world was on the verge of a split,

    I read on this subject for the BBC and Deutsche Welle. How can "pleasure" be discerned among a selection of facts? To do this, you need not to read between the lines, but to read at all without looking at the lines. Better with closed eyes wassat
  30. keeper03
    keeper03 15 October 2018 23: 47
    +1
    The good news is that The Russian Orthodox Church harshly answered and broke off communication with the Patriarchate of Constantinople ! Although there is no snot! soldier
  31. FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 16 October 2018 07: 01
    +3
    The US is slowly shaking Russia step by step. The trouble is that you don’t have to try, and the performers in the American administration have gone weak. You can never take Russia from outside by force, the people will rise, but it is not difficult to break up from the inside. Moreover, the government has been completely compromised by theft and nepotism, plus the social stratification of society, the national question, the lack of domestic politics, and unpopular reforms.