How to shoot the Bundeswehr: the old G36 was written off, the new ones did not pass the test

According to the German edition World on Sunday, when rearming the army of the Federal Republic of Germany from the old G36 assault rifles to a new type of machine guns, there was a hitch: none of the new types of small guns introduced by German gunsmiths weapons did not pass tests on a number of technical and combat requirements.

The rearmament of the Bundeswehr was started by the Minister of Defense of the Federal Republic of Germany Ursula von der Leyen, who sharply criticized the modern machine gun of the German army G36, produced at the enterprises of the Heckler & Koch concern, because of its problems with shooting accuracy. After that, the minister officially announced that this manufacturer's weapons had no future in the Bundeswehr.

The decision to remove the G36 automatic rifle from the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany was adopted and approved, but it hasn’t been replaced since all new types of small automatic weapons are not suitable either: they simply do not meet a number of modern requirements that are mandatory for the latest generation of automatic rifles.

It will probably be easier for the Germans to conclude a contract with the Kalashnikov concern’s Russian defense-industrial enterprise ... But seriously, lobbyists of American small arms have already appeared in Germany who are ready to “persuade” Angela Merkel and Ursula von der Leyen to accept their proposal.

G36 Assault Rifle Details - link.

Comments

[Corsair0304]

Well, not everything is so sad in the German army. The good old G-36s are in parts and in long-term storage warehouses. Nobody took them away or disposed of them. And as the practice of conducting large-scale battles shows, special accuracy is not so important compared to reliability. Here is the notorious M-16 (and all its alterations). Certainly an accurate rifle, but in Korea and Vietnam the brave Yankees tried to find themselves Kalashnikov. The same thing is in "Desert Storm" ... There are many examples of this.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Corsair0304

Here is the notorious M-16 (and its all sorts of alterations). Absolutely accurate rifle

And "Kalashnikov", then, is not accurate?

[Mik13]

Quote: Corsair0304

The good old G-36 are in parts and long-term warehouses. Nobody seized or disposed of them. And as the practice of conducting large-scale battles shows, special accuracy is not so important compared to reliability.

When talking about accuracy problems with the "good old G-36", the essence of these problems is usually not disclosed. As in this article, for example. Therefore, some do not understand exactly what these problems are.

The fact is that the G-36 has a very serious design flaw. The design of the rifle is widely used polymer materials. In particular, it is from them that the receiver is made. The problem is that the sights are attached exactly to the polymer receiver. The properties of the polymer and the design of the rifle (pairing polymer parts with metal) lead to the fact that after heating (that is, after intensive shooting - 100-150 shots) the STP of the rifle is irreversibly shifted. Irreversible - this means that after cooling, the STP will not return to its place. We'll have to bring the weapon back to normal combat. The shift of the STP is such that it becomes impossible to hit the growth figure at distances of the order of 150-200 meters.

Obviously, this serious design flaw in the G-36 can also be called "accuracy problems", but these are not the same problems that are usually meant when talking about accuracy problems.

[Corsair0304]

Quote: Mik13

The properties of the polymer and the design of the rifle (pairing polymer parts with metal) lead to the fact that after heating (that is, after intensive shooting - 100-150 shots) STP rifle is irreversibly shifted. Irreversible - this means that after cooling, the STP will not return to its place.

I did not know about such a design flaw. Respect!

[newcomer]

high switch to Valmet RK, the most successful copy of AK.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mik13

The problem is that the sights are attached exactly to the polymer receiver. The properties of the polymer and the design of the rifle (pairing polymer parts with metal) lead to the fact that after heating (that is, after intensive shooting - 100-150 shots) STP rifle is irreversibly shifted. Irreversible - this means that after cooling, the STP will not return to its place. We'll have to bring the weapon back to normal combat. The shift of the STP is such that it becomes impossible to hit the growth figure at distances of about 150-200 meters.

G36 has a different problem:

Yes, the gloomy Teutonic genius planted the barrel of an army version of the G36 directly in plastic. And then the Deutschly Holdaten are quite surprised - and why is it when shooting in automatic mode after heating the barrel the rifle begins to spit anywhere?

[andrewkor]

M-16 in Korea 1953? A masterpiece!

[Serge Gorely]

... M-16 (and its all sorts of alterations). Certainly an accurate rifle, but in Korea and Vietnam the brave Yankees tried to find themselves Kalashnikov. The same is in "Desert Storm" ... There are many examples of this.

I would like to see a photo of the Yankees in the Korean War with AK in playful pens, first. The second, fermented patriotism is not patriotism. Soviet troops used German weapons, German troops - Soviet, this proves NOTHING.

[Shurale]

I read the memoirs of the Americans who fought in Vietnam, they said that they would very much like to fight with the AK, but could not, the sound was very different from the shot, and the place where the AK was fired was immediately "covered" ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

they said that they would very much like to fight with the AK, but could not, the sound was very different from the shot, and the place where they fired from the AK was immediately "covered" ...

Here you go. How I was a soldier in the American army. “Oh, yes. The last operation, so it’s like that. I was then in the special forces - the“ green beret. ”We went to combat not with the M16, but with the AK-47. In the jungle, your machine gun is better, or rather: not so it ricochets - the bullet is heavier, and its speed is lower. Kalashnikov is a fine fellow, he foresaw everything. Besides, when we started shooting, Charlie often took us for their own and stomped right into our hands. I commanded a company. "

[Shurale]

Apparently we read the memories of different Americans))))

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

Apparently we read the memories of different Americans))))

This is from A. Borovik. Interview with Colonel Hoffman.

[Shurale]

I believe you are a drunk dog)))))

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

I believe you are a drunk dog)

Darn. They found fault.

[Shurale]

I have a good sense of humor, and I suggested that you like this joke))))))

[Pimply]

Quote: Corsair0304

Here is the notorious M-16 (and all its alterations). Certainly an accurate rifle, but in Korea and Vietnam the brave Yankees tried to find themselves Kalashnikov.

Do not repeat nonsense, not having clear evidence

[Vard]

500 meters from the hands of a running target .... Solitary ... From the first shot ... AK-74 ... You must be able to shoot ...

[Slinqshot]

Well, give a lot of examples in Vietnam and Afghanistan, storyteller.

[2329 Carpenter]

Quote: Corsair0304

but in Korea and Vietnam the brave Yankees tried to find themselves "Kalashnikov".

But in Korea, something AK was not observed ... In Google, at least - is it not destiny to slip off once again?

[tasha]

The rifle is good, but they just can't make a very good one yet. Most likely the author of the rights is the influence of the American arms lobby. Maybe only not "have already appeared", but "have been selected for a long time" ...

[Shurale]

Lobby trade engine. Do you think it’s just that our glock climbed into the award?

[tasha]

we glock climbed into the award

I thought that glock is vice versa good. What is wrong with him?
Now, if there was any nambu of modern production, then yes, the lobby is for sure.

[Shurale]

If you approach this issue this way, it’s really good, it’s good that it’s neither a luger nor a schmeiser .... (does the word premium mean anything to you?)

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

and not schmeiser

And what about Schmeiser? It seems like not one of his products came to light.

[Shurale]

I understood you...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

I understood you...

I doubt it. MP-38 composed by Heinrich Volmer.

[Shurale]

I realized that you didn’t read the thread, the conversation was that you cannot stick copies of other countries in award pistols, we have a lot of our legendary weapons, and I realized that you are more concerned about other issues. Still want to talk about it?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

Still want to talk about it?

No I do not want. I'm drunk, dog.

[Shurale]

Here is a striking example of new generals on topvar)))))))))

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

Here is a striking example of new generals on topvar

I’ve been here since the 14 year. And shoulder straps ... yes the dog is with them, I can give it to you too, but I don’t know how. I am an ordinary soldier.

[Shurale]

I just compared the epaulettes, which means a long experience of verbiage on the site, and at the same time such dirty, undeserved insults of the opponent, how did you gain so many approving opinions of readers with such incontinence in words?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

which means a long experience of verbiage on the site,

I have seven times more comments than you.

Quote: Shurale

undeserved insults of the opponent

If you somewhere saw an insult in my words, then please excuse me. Yes, I often joke, but kindly, mostly.

[Shurale]

"Drunk dog" is so kind))))), you are good-natured however ... Now I will also comment on my opponents, and refer to you if they are dissatisfied)))))

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Shurale

kind you however ...

Well, I have such humor. If you do not understand the jokes of humor, then I pass.

[Shurale]

I have a great sense of humor, believe me, but at the expense of your doubt I have ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Shurale

the conversation was about the fact that it is impossible to stick copies of other countries into award pistols

[tasha]

Premium PM - good. A premium glock is still better ... Somehow it is more pleasant, probably. And therefore, your example with glocks as an example of an arms lobby is not entirely true. This I think so, maybe I'm wrong.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: tasha

A premium glock is still better ...

Footballers CSKA GS issued.

[Shurale]

Why PM? Do we have other pistols?

[tasha]

We were convinced that premium glocks are an arms lobby. It's sad of course.

[Shurale]

This is not just a lobby, I suppose, it’s also a bribe for those who allow such things ...

[2329 Carpenter]

But what does PM not like?

[Vard]

Since 2012, Glock has been manufactured in Russia ... But ... The machine is very demanding on the quality of cartridges ... and you need to beat it carefully on the head ... So as not to break the gun ...

[Horse, people and soul]

Glock eats any cartridges, except 7N31, for which Glock 17 is not needed, but Glock 31, but with a special barrel with a chamber under 9x19.

Glock 31 fires .357 Sig whose energy is higher than that of 7H31, and the mass of the bullet is 9 grams versus 4.2 grams of 7H31.

Such trunks makes IGB Austria. But it would be better to order at the Glokovsky factory.

[Horse, people and soul]

Glock is not for rewarding, but for shooting. There are other iron and shiny pistols with engraving for rewarding, which is most appreciated by those awarded.

There is no beauty in Glock. There is a monstrous and sinister combat utilitarian functionality.

Awarding Glock ... it's like rewarding an electric drill. Only a specialist who knows how to use Glock will appreciate it.

[210ox]

In general, the statement of the Minister of Defense about the domestic concern is very strange. Moreover, the manufacturer makes very good weapons (which by the way they want to put into service with the US Army)

[Incvizitor]

the influence of the American arms lobby.

hk 416 is called ...

Ultimately, Heckler & Koch gave the Americans exactly what they wanted - their favorite machine now without unloved, significant flaws.

[Fedorov]

German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen, who sharply criticized the modern G36 assault rifle of the German army, manufactured at the Heckler & Koch concern, because of its problems with shooting accuracy

Quiet, no criticism needed. Baba knows! She is a minister.

[Ushly_bashkort]

What kind of sexism ?! Maybe you are still against the detachments of combat "woodcutters" in the Bundeswehr ?!

[Nikolai Petrov]

Valery, for sure especially considering her specialty before the Department of Defense. The "best" weapons specialist!

[210ox]

What the woman knows, we will keep silent ..

[AUL]

Quote: Fedorov

Quiet, no criticism needed. Baba knows!

Looking at the photo, I doubted that IT was a woman!

[Rurikovich]

So what!? If they made the bullets manageable, you see, and the accuracy would increase. ABOUT! As in the "Fifth aliment" - they themselves would fly at the enemy. And no need to aim

[alex-cn]

After G3 and FN FAL, Europe, it seems, was not able to create anything truly army. Complain about everything ...

[bald]

The solution is simple and cheap - to buy AK from China, and grandfathers will not understand Russia’s selling German weapons to Germany. And the states - they will boil for the price.

[Mordvin 3]

We should tell a friend from gynecology that the Soviet Kalash is replaced by two m-16 in Iraq. Oh, damn it, wrote, and thought, but she doesn’t decide to check with me? Well, nafig, I do not want to.

[Bellerophon]

Nothing, they will fasten BANTIC to the rifle, send a powder box, add a mirror - and here it is, a new trend in small arms. Aunt, Minister of Defense - SCARY FORCE ...)))))

[alex-cn]

And should the bow be necessarily blue? Or can it be rainbow-colored?

[hohkn]

Quote: Bellerophon

Aunt, Minister of Defense - SCARY FORCE ...)))))

Forgot to add "tolerant". In India, the Minister of Defense is also a woman, but that’s not strange.

[Altona]

She took and lowered her own arms manufacturer. It’s not democratic like that, Mrs. Ursula. The gunsmiths, they can influence, in your place in the state.

[Waldemar]

Occupied country. The entire government is against Germany and the Germans. Heckler Koch means into the furnace, then the fifth tenth into the furnace, but let the country into the country 10 million Islamists, build a few dozen American bases on its territory, expel its own genetically population in Hungary and deploy nuclear weapons. There is such a special breed of Nazis - they really want all the peoples of Europe, including Russia, to destroy at the root. And they work day and night for it. Let degenerate slide into perversions and childfree, fill everything with savages from the east, and in the end let them kill each other

[san4es]

... Ursula von der Leyen, who sharply criticized the modern machine gun of the German army G36

The German cleaning kit itself is stingy: folding ramrod, brush, oil. And that’s all, not a screwdriver, not a wipe and oil, by the way, only one kind. In case dirt gets into the trigger, it only remains to replace it (since they are exactly the same and do not require adjustment, unlike AK parts) or rinse with gasoline (kerosene, diesel fuel), it is simply impossible to disassemble the unit for normal cleaning under field conditions.
The result is this: a truly German rifle with high accuracy and accuracy of battle, designed for the conditions of modern combat, where you can always timely service a weapon or hand it over for repair to an artisan. Weapons are more likely for special forces than for the regular army. A great example of a combination of rigor and practicality.

[Engineer]

The decision to withdraw the G36 automatic rifle from the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany was made and approved, but there is no replacement yet, since all new models of small-arms automatic weapons are also not suitable

Laughed heartily) HK416, she G38 was adopted by the Bundeswehr and in terms of reliability is able to compete with the "legendary" Kalashnikov, and in other parameters a cut above the latter.

[Machete]

Well, the genecologist knows better that Heckler and Koch are bullshit.

[Note 2]

Gentlemen Hugo Schmeisser, one of the developers of the Stg44 is also Mp43, and if I remember correctly, the concept of an assault rifle came from this weapon. And they mean it when they lie that Kalashnikov had torn his AK from the Germans.

[Klingon]

Hitler rejected Stg-44, I don’t know what crazy ideas were born in his head, but the Fuhrer did not like the Führer's design. It didn’t look like Aryan. But it is possible that the whole truth is that the entire Wehrmacht was already armed with an MP-40 and it was unprofitable to rearm on Stg, in view of the more laborious process of manufacturing the TK.Stg, it had a different design. It’s good that it didn’t occur to him to arm Stg at least part of SS

[vredlo]

just the whole Wehrmacht with mp 40, apparently I missed something

[2329 Carpenter]

Yes, the thoughts were not completely delusional. A long store increased the silhouette of a shooter while shooting lying down.
Only when real users began to send positive and even enthusiastic comments to the General Staff sites with 100500 likes, then Hitler’s mood regarding ShtG changed.

[2329 Carpenter]

And where does infa come from that the SS did not have ShtG?
Google the pictures of the Second World War. Panzergrenadirs there are all sorts of ...

[rumpeljschtizhen]

Strange ... the Germans have excellent modern weapons, the same NK line (416, 417) is already France (the whole army will soon be converted to it.) The Netherlands is used in the USA .. half of Europe ......

[bang]

Comedy: Heckler & Koch supplies rifles to various divisions in the United States. But for the native Bundeswehr, rifles are not suitable., You need American ones. Yeah.
Ursula is a kind of German Serdyukova-Vasilyeva in one person and in action. With her arrival, it suddenly became clear that the tanks had stopped driving, helicopters were flying, rifles were no longer firing. Even the "Eurofighters" suddenly began to dazzle the gallant Luftwaffe pilots with their displays at night, and those, poor fellows, fly with their eyes closed in the dark (in a good way).
In general, the budget of the Bundeswehr must be increased, increased and increased)

[Horse, people and soul]

Urgently return the GDR AK-74.

And the bayonets are still the same !!!

[beeper]

There was the main problem with the quick overheating of the trunks and automation failures during a more or less intense shootout ?!
Even, it seems, there was a deplorable episode in Afghanistan, with the death of several NATO special forces, armed by the G36 who refused, in a skirmish with the Taliban, armed with more reliable and long-range weapons of Soviet standards, after which this "murmur" about the unjustified "over-praise" and the dubious "prodigy" of the "plastic" German assault rifles ?! Or I don't remember that ?!
Mounting sights on a plastic (and even not rigidly fixed! ) "handle-frame" (like the barrel-in plastic) - of course, not the best design solution!
Rifles G36 are, in my opinion, one of the negative examples of "immeasurable (positive example of reasonable" moderation "- Glock pistols!)" Dominance of technological considerations over design.

[Horse, people and soul]

There would be an aluminum-scandium receiver and there would be all the rules. But more expensive. And scandium in Ukraine. Today, native diggers will give it for nothing for the promise of lace shorts and tomos.

[2329 Carpenter]

Quote: Horse, people and soul

Glock is not for rewarding, but for shooting. There are other iron and shiny pistols with engraving for rewarding, which is most appreciated by those awarded.

There is no beauty in Glock. There is a monstrous and sinister combat utilitarian functionality.

Awarding Glock ... it's like rewarding an electric drill. Only a specialist who knows how to use Glock will appreciate it.

Odes, songs, poems, hokku, tanka and something like shamanic spells; and of course traditional yodels: Horse + & - what volume of glokopoiesy in a row?