Chinese stealth ready for flight tests

China is preparing to carry out the first flight of a strategic bomber of the new generation Hong-20, according to the Global Times information portal.

The newest Chinese strategic "stealth" - Hong-20 bomber, which is essentially the equivalent of the American B-2 Spirit, has been created since the beginning of the 2010-s. According to information available in open sources, the flight prototype of the bomber was created already in 2013 year. The details of the development itself are not known, but in the summer of this year, China Central Television showed footage of the ground tests of the Chinese "stealth", and now information has appeared on its flight tests.

China traditionally does not disclose the details of its development, but at the moment it is known that the bomber was created according to the "flying wing" scheme and resembles the American Northrop B-2 Spirit. The aircraft subsonic, is positioned as "subtle." There are no exact tactical and technical data, but in the technical specifications it is indicated that the aircraft should be able to deliver 10 tons of bomb-missile load to a distance of eight thousand kilometers without refueling. The main weapons Hong-20 planned to make cruise missiles CJ-10K with conventional and nuclear warheads.

The United States has already stated that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage of surface military operations and the possibility of defeating US naval bases.

Comments

[Andrey Yuryevich]

why do they need this crap, it’s not clear ... not a very good thing.

[Chertt]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

why do they need this crap, it’s not clear

This is understandable

The US has already announced that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage area of ​​surface military operations and the possibility of hitting US naval bases

Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out

[Svarog]

Quote: Chertt

Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out

He doesn’t choose weapons .. whether it’s striped or someone else ... China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..

[Chertt]

Quote: Svarog

China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..

With this fact, no one (from reasonable people), and does not argue. And as an ally in the fight against the "exclusive hegemon" China is very useful. But there is no need to make a new idol out of the "yellow rabbits".

[Shurik70]

"If the people do not want to feed their army, they will feed someone else's."
It has long been said, but always true.
Any modern army should have modern aviation.
Long-range invisibles are an important part of modern aviation.
That's what is respected in China - they don’t tell ANYTHING about their modern designs. That's right!

[alexmach]

Of allies?

[Chertt]

situational allies

[Normal ok]

Quote: Svarog

He doesn’t choose weapons .. whether it’s striped or someone else ... China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..

Only the lazy on the site did not make fun of the "stealth" technology - they say all this is nonsense. But China is also implementing such a program.

[voyaka uh]

Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.

[Chertt]

I agree. I think that the "club" should already be prepared. In case, having knocked down one "hegemon", another will climb in his place - squinted

[EvilLion]

That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.

I will correct a little :
1. The creation of the first Soviet long-range aviation missile system "Comet" unfolded in 1947.
The KS-1 cruise missile (according to the then terminology of the “Cruise Shell-1” product “E”) was developed by A.I. Mikoyan's OKB-155 (led by M.I. Gurevich and A.Ya. Bereznyak), the Tu- 4 was prepared by OKB-156 A.N. Tupolev (supervised by A.V. Na-dashkevich); the control and guidance system was made by SKB-1 (led by S. L. Beria-son L. P. Beria), it also played the role of the lead developer of “Comet”.
The main purpose of the system was the fight against surface ships at the borders of up to 2000 km from the base. KS-1 was equipped with an RD-500K engine and had the following characteristics: length - 8,29 m, wingspan - 4,722 m, launch weight - 2735 kg, warhead weight - 1000 kg, top speed - 1050-1100 km / h and range Flight - 70-90 km.

2.In 1954, the serial Tu-16 No. 4200305 was converted into an experimental missile carrier.
At the same time, the aircraft part of the Comet complex from Tu-4 was transferred to the car. Only the radar, which became known as “Cobalt-1M,” underwent changes. The crew of the carrier increased to seven people. Factory tests, which began in August and ended in November 1954, were carried out by a crew led by test pilot Yu.T. Alasheev. A total of 18 flights were completed with a total duration of 9 hours 14 minutes. Combat discharge KS-1 was carried out at altitudes of 3500-4000 m and speeds up to

370 km / h in the instrument, while the discharge did not affect the behavior of the carrier. The maximum instrumental speed of the Tu-16 with two KS-1 was 575 km / h, while the vibration of the suspensions were not observed. According to the results of factory tests, the Act noted that the take-off and landing of the Tu-16 with two KS-1s according to the piloting technique are no different from the take-off and landing of serial vehicles. Landing speed with a mass of 47000 kg (with two KS-1) increased by 10-15 km / h. The Cobalt -1M station was operating normally, the target was detected after about 160 km, its capture and auto tracking were stable. When flying with one missile, it was recommended to suspend it under the left console, and compensate by pumping fuel to the right.
In addition, it was recommended that the maximum speed of an aircraft with a radar antenna released be maintained within the range of 520-550 km / h in the instrument due to vibration of the antenna cowl.
At the beginning of next year, the experimental Tu-16KS successfully passed tests at the Bagerovo training range, after which it was recommended for adoption.
With 1954 1958 for years. Plant No. 22 in Kazan produced 107 Tu-16KS, of which in 1958 59 vehicles with the Tu-16KS (ZA) refueling system. Of the total number of carriers of the order of 40 in the 1960s. were transferred to Indonesia and Egypt, and 65 were converted into carriers of the KSR-2 and KSR-11 missiles.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Actually - the original idea belonged to the carriers of the "gloomy Teutonic genius", who launched "V-1" across Britain from the "Heinkel-111" of the 200th squadron in 1944-1945.
Our analogs are the Chelomeev 10X and subsequent samples.

[Henderson]

Quote: EvilLion

That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.

and the Chinese are stupid and never think of it

[EvilLion]

The Americans did not really realize nifig in this regard. B-1B, for example, can only do bombs.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

B-1B, for example, can only do bombs.

Never say .... never, well, or "only"

[EvilLion]

But from this place on in more detail, what modifications and since when they know how to rockets? And then I might have missed something.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

what modifications and since when are they able to rockets?

Strategic bomber V-1V, carries 24 cruise missiles "Air - surface" AGM-158 JASSM.

Photo: El Udeid Air Base, Qatar, August 25, 2018

[EvilLion]

Yes, added in the middle of 2000's.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: EvilLion

maybe I missed something.

Probably missed something. B-1b was originally imprisoned for missiles, Random everything clearly tells. It was later taught to bombs when the Americans took hegemony around the world.

[Berkut24]

The star-striped caput did not reach anywhere, and in the future it will relatively soon be decommissioned. For it turned out to be useless against modern air defense. Especially in the story of the bombs.

[Maz]

Rather

Quote: voyaka uh

Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.

reach the strategic ally of the United States rather than Peter, that is, to Israel, the Schaub select and arrogance diminish the champions in this sport.

[Piramidon]

Quote: voyaka uh

... reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. ... That’s what stealth strategists do

Who will allow him to fly to St. Petersburg? It has already been proven that "stealth" is a myth.

[Ros 56]

Tel Aviv is closer than Peter, and it will not even reach the Urals.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Stealth is relevant only when it can be radiated from the front and at a low altitude, and if it flies above the radar, then the signal from it will be reflected just like any other aircraft of a similar size ...

Stealth is a dubious plus for a fighter, and even more so for a bomber ...

[APASUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.

China already has enough problems and they don’t need another competitor with a nuclear triad behind their backs. I won’t say any further, but today they need us behind their backs as a support, not an enemy

[Compasure]

It will be necessary to fly to St. Petersburg through the North Pole

[Waldemar]

And to Israel

[Misha Honest]

Quote: voyaka uh

Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg.

To Tel Aviv, by the way, too ...

[Corn]

Quote: Chertt

Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm.

Where is China, where is America and where is Russia ... not the "striped" need to worry, it is not with them under the border that the dragon is gaining strength. Knowing about the ways of conducting colonial policy, it becomes quite sad.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Chertt

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

why do they need this crap, it’s not clear

This is understandable

The US has already announced that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage area of ​​surface military operations and the possibility of hitting US naval bases

Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out

probably the best part is that you are supported in your fantasies ....

[Blackmokona]

PAK YES will come out and immediately become an incredibly useful and very successful thing.
As was already the case with the F-22 with the advent of PakFA, and with the tomahawk with the advent of the caliber

[KLV2018]

Quote: BlackMokona

PAK YES will come out and immediately become an incredibly useful and very successful thing.
As was already the case with the F-22 with the advent of PakFA, and with the tomahawk with the advent of the caliber

the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?

[yehat]

nobody knows. they call the deadlines completely absurd - like "tests will begin in 2034"
how they planned this date is completely incomprehensible, because in our country the government refuses to plan the economy.
Even the very formal beginning of the PAK DA project stretched out in time for at least 4 years.
Recently, news came that they began to create engines. If it will be like with product 30, then 2030 is a very optimistic date, and the Ura propagandists from EP call 2023-25 ​​years,
which are calculated solely from presidential terms and other consumer goods, not connected in any way with industry.

[Random]

Quote: KLV2018

the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?

Purely theoretically, "based" on the statements of the Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Oleg Bocharov - "....." Now the key issue is the creation of special technical conditions for the design and construction of such facilities and their commissioning. Tupolev PJSC has submitted an application the Ministry of Industry and Trade for this site alone for 19 billion rubles, which should come from the current budget in addition to the money that the enterprise has. We will seriously look to ensure that funds are invested effectively. We have the highest degree of control over the timely commissioning of these facilities. But we perfectly understand that not a single object can be excluded. Because we have created unique mechanical production, we will need new technologies - everything that exists in the world in almost a single copy and is a unique competence for the Russian state. "

According to him, all this needs to be prepared by 2025. “We need to re-create the stand base for this aircraft. The most powerful comprehensive re-equipment of the enterprise will take place with new technological machines and equipment, fundamentally new research and development stands, which will allow us to continue to hold priority in this direction. These are the most powerful financial investments that the Ministry of Industry and Trade will make in the next three years, ”predicts Oleg Bocharov. “We hope that the State Duma will support us, because this is the main priority.”
Source: https://realnoevremya.ru/articles/10958 ... -gorbunova
Knowing a little "our capabilities" at the present time, then ... so in 10 years ... not earlier

[lucul]

The most powerful comprehensive re-equipment of the enterprise will take place with new technological machines and equipment, fundamentally new research and development stands, which will allow us to continue to hold priority in this direction.

This is the most basic. On old equipment you will not get far.
It is not possible, for example, to measure millimeters / micrometers with a conventional construction tape measure.

[Random]

Quote: lucul

This is the most basic. On old equipment you will not get far.

So this is not in dispute

[Waldemar]

This is still not measured with the USSR roulette. Most likely we are talking about cnc machines and various equipment

[ver_]

... one * wizard * drilled the hair with a drill that he made from a piano string .., made a rose from a piece of red paint from an ancient painting and placed this flower in his hair .. Drilled and set everything in the pauses between heartbeats ... So all this equipment - excuse, cut and other * charms * to drag time and * forge grandmas * ..

[Misha Honest]

Quote: KLV2018

the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?

The question is - will it even come out PAK YES? More precisely, will he have time to leave before the start of World War 3?

[Sergey Goncharov]

One can raise the question in another way - is the same PAK YES really needed at all? Given that the geostrategic position of Russia is very different from that of the United States ...

[Misha Honest]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

One can raise the question in another way - is the PAK YES needed at all for the Air Force of the Russian Air Force?

With that success one may ask - do the RF need an army, air force and navy in general?

[Sergey39]

,, For the possibility of defeating US naval bases.

[Henderson]

He has India and Pakistan at his side. China has no territorial problems with the United States.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Apart from the fact that the United States is a "subscription" of the Republic of China (Taiwan).

[Henderson]

not a US subscription, but Taiwan subscription

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - so be it. Although in the slang of my former stepdaughter (graduated from high school in 2008) - "subscription" is the one who "subscribes" for the weaker one.

[Henderson]

Slang and gop jargon is not about serious politics

[Sergey Goncharov]

Perhaps I agree.

[Henderson]

perhaps I also agree

[Misha Honest]

Quote: Henderson

China has no territorial problems with the United States.

Actually above the roof ... Taiwan, Senkaku, Spratly, Midway, Japan, Hawaii, Korea, San Francisco, Alaska, etc.

[Henderson]

"In fact" exists only in your fantasies

[Misha Honest]

Quote: Henderson

"In fact" exists only in your fantasies

These are not my fantasies, but Chinese ones.

[Random]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

why do they need this crap, it’s not clear ... not a very good thing.

Andrei, dear, but ... you're wrong
This "crap" is already there, but where is our PAK YES?
quote - "the terms of reference states that the aircraft should be able to deliver 10 tons of bomb and missile load over a distance of eight thousand kilometers without refueling."
If you invest in the "framework" of the TTZ, then ... it's generally great, but with anti-ship missiles and avionics, they are all right.
So if Che ... someone will be very sad in the Pacific Ocean, and given their construction of bases in Africa, then Indian is within walking distance, as well as the Mediterranean Sea.
And given their ability to "produce" products in batches, then .... one can only envy

[Maz]

Yes, there is something

[EvilLion]

Tu-160, totally surpassing this nonsense, is not it?

[Henderson]

Tu-160 is an ultra-expensive thing with super-sound, useless in modern conditions.

[EvilLion]

Well then, stealth is useless. Supersound at least allows you to fly away. Chasing the afterburner for the Tu-160 occupation is unpromising.

[Henderson]

Why chase him afterburner? Firstly, the Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic.

[albert]

Quote: Henderson

Firstly, the Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic.

Exactly what is. The American B-1, for example, is only transonic.

[Iline]

Quote: albert

Exactly what is

Where did the firewood come from? While serving on them I did not observe such a wonderful ability. Moreover - even a short-term transition to supersonic dramatically increases the likelihood of not reaching the destination. Eats like a horse.

[Henderson]

For those who served and washed the floors. Transonic means lower sound speed.

[Sergey Goncharov]

You are wrong. Transonic is from 0,85 to 1,5M. In Russian-language sources, this term is indeed often considered the equivalent of the term "transonic", but this notcompetently.

[Iline]

For theorists from the couch. The question was about cruising supersonic, and not about transonic

[Henderson]

The Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic. Cruising speed of 850km / h. At afterburner, its engines have a specific consumption of 1.7kg / kgf hour. That is, 4 afterburner engines consume 42t * 4 = 169t of kerosene per hour.
Full aircraft refueling - 148 tons. Afterburner maximum speed - 2200 km / h
We get that purely for fuel on the afterburner Tu-160 is able to pass a maximum of 1900km. This is without taking into account the need for take-off, acceleration, landing and thermal limitations.
That is, he is either a strategist or supersonic. Together fails.

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

with useless supersound in modern conditions

And here you are absolutely wrong ... the most effective maneuver against enemy air defense missiles is .... "in time and quickly .. wash away"

[Henderson]

The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all, or to remain unnoticed in it. For this, the Tu-160 and drags its missiles. But why would he need supersonic?
Indeed, in fact, the Tu-160 in this case is an ordinary subsonic aircraft and does not exceed the Tu-95 at all, with the cost of construction and operation at times more expensive.

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all.

Well, you still have to try to do it
And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

[Iline]

Quote: Random

And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles on board with a launch range of about 5 - 7, 5 thousand kilometers as it will famously dodge virtual missiles. This is not a fighter, and he simply can not twist feints in the air. The main emphasis is on the airborne defense complex.
And one more thing - in the military doctrine of our state of strategic aviation, the role of the second nuclear strike is assigned. Ie it is assumed. that by this time the enemy will suffer certain losses, including in air defense systems.

[Henderson]

Quote: Iline

I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles on board with a launch range of about 5 - 7, 5 thousand kilometers

such missiles do not exist, except your imagination

[Sergey Goncharov]

Hm ... X-101/102 - max range ~ 5500 km - they still attribute it (at least).

[Henderson]

Yes, you can ascribe anything. The reality is no side

[Sergey Goncharov]

And what is the reality - in your opinion ??

[Random]

Quote: Iline

I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles

With all due respect, but ... it’s very strange to hear this from a person with such military experience and education as you
I dare then recall that:
Ballistic missile maneuver (abbr. PfP) — a variety of passive missile defense measuresconsisting in the departure of a unit of military equipment from the flight path of a guided missile or an unguided missile (rocket propelled grenade) of the enemy.
But in general, missile defense maneuvers can be divided into two large groups:
1. Maneuvers aimed at disrupting escort
2. Maneuvers aimed at disrupting guidance.
What am I explaining to you ... open your academic notes on the tactics of the Aviation Clans and everything is there ... "in black and white"
Best regards,

[GibSoN]

And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

Have you ever seen how the TU-160 Flies? What is his maneuverability? Speed ​​yes, good .. But in terms of maneuverability, especially at high speeds, it doesn’t look much better than IL-76 compared to C-17 ..

[Random]

Quote: GibSoN

Have you ever seen how the TU-160 Flies?

Like in that joke about a crocodile
Dear ... what do you have to do with military service, and even more so ... with aviation?
I understand that ... no ... Remember ... SPEED is all ... this is both the ability to maneuver and piloting at high angular velocities and the ability to quickly turn around "around the tail" by 180 degrees and ... "is banal "to escape from the fighter, or rather from his PrnK
Less go to the show meow in the Patriot Park and look at the "super maneuverability" (ie piloting at speeds close to the minimum evolving speeds).
Have you heard the maneuvers against DETECTION and ACCEPTANCE? Do you know? No? ... then .... "into the garden ... all into the garden"

[Henderson]

Quote: Random

And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

Strategist weighing over 200 tons? Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.
But since you are in the subject, what is his supersonic turning radius?

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

Strategist weighing over 200 tons? Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.

Easy and not forced - a hill, a steep dive with a V vert of 100 m / s (on the Tu-22 and 22M2 and 3 did under 170 ), combat turn, spiral descent, etc. but yes .. forgot ..... the barrel (it was the barrel and not the "tub" ..... the "rear cockpit" with hanging straps untied .. even from the cups of the chairs did not fall out ).

Quote: Henderson

But since you are in the subject, what is his supersonic turning radius?

It is not the magnitude of the turning radius that matters, but the ANGULAR speed at the time of its execution, and of course time.
At speeds with MU> 1, you can "make" a roll almost under 90 degrees and twist, the main thing for overload is not to jump out of the available values, but at a speed of 900 Km / h with such a roll you will at least jump out to the 2nd mode and 99% fall off and seal.

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.

But so frankly rude .... I do not recommend Not knowing anything about a person and not knowing anything on aviation topics, "rush" with such "statements" ... right ... it's not decent

[Sergey Goncharov]

The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all, or to remain unnoticed in it. For this, the Tu-160 and drags its missiles. But why would he need supersonic?

To reduce the time of the throw to the target (more precisely, to the start point of the onboard TSA) - not ??

[Henderson]

The Tu-160 afterburner ceases to be a strategist and burns all its fuel in half an hour. He is not capable of making a throw to the goal in this situation.

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

The Tu-160 afterburner ceases to be a strategist and burns all its fuel in half an hour.

Here you are practically right, but ..... you are very exaggerating. Yes, specific fuel consumption increases, compared with cruising, 2,5-3 times.
Therefore, the MFR mode is just used when getting out from under the "strike" or for a quick climb to perform a launch (if the approach to the launch line is carried out on PMV, that is, under the beams of the enemy's radar)

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

To reduce the time of the throw to the target (more precisely, to the start point of the onboard TSA) - not ??

We call it the ABROAD
And with accuracy, it’s the other way around ... from the launch line to the side of the house, so that you can get away from everything as quickly as possible (detection zones and zones of support of the enemy’s active air defense systems)
"Beyond the river", after "work" we turned 180 g, fired up afterburners and ... at M> 1,7 we went "home" (to Mary) The accompanying Tu-22PDS walked alongside easily, but the MiG-23ML with rockets on the suspensions ... "tearfully" asked ... "to slow down", because. they have no more than M = 1,4 with PTB and missiles

[Pete mitchell]

Even after the first opportunity to watch -160 up close, it seems in '88, the Americans concluded that even without having an advanced rail like -1b, -160 will enter the state air defense system "like a knife in butter." Intercepting this plane is a big headache, even from a purely financial point of view, war has its own economy.

[Henderson]

from a financial point of view, any cost of interception is less than an enemy’s nuclear strike

[Pete mitchell]

Another зрения viewing angle ’: to intercept -160 before entering the missile launch area, it is necessary to keep forces and means in these areas - very expensive. Of course, when ´ a big giveaway ’went out, the money becomes meaningless, but before that .. it’s very expensive.

[Henderson]

to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Henderson

to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.

Sorry, it seems to me that you do not quite imagine the features of the combat use of -160 with missiles. It is necessary to put forward interceptors in the launch area, and these are huge and very remote regions

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.

I see ... the plane was seen only in the picture ... well, maybe by .. "zomboyaschiku"
Even the duty link performs maneuvers on reaching the interception point only on the MFR, and even more so from the Far East position.
Therefore, the "adversaries" all in the loitering zone "hang" from the PTB in order to increase the time spent and save fuel for the MFR.
In short, we are doing LIKBEZ for you

And when the command comes for them .. "front" then PTBs are dropped and .. forward "for orders"

[Sergey Goncharov]

In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply not existed. As, however, not exists now (except for the extremely limited potential of the Air Guard to intercept the Kyrgyz Republic). US air defense was dismantled in the early 1970s - for reasons of prosaic economy.

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply did not exist.

The main threat to the SA (Tu-160 and Tu-95MS) is the air defense aircraft AUS (it consists of 2-3 aircraft carriers that "carry" purely "pvsh" wings.
These ADRs are being promoted to "missile-hazardous areas" in the oceans

[Sergey Goncharov]

Into the polar ice of the Arctic Ocean, for example ...

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

In the polar ice of the Arctic Ocean, for example.

What .. Alaska no, I don’t know ..... aircraft refueling ... no, I don’t know

[Sergey Goncharov]

USAF tankers fuel US Navy carrier-based fighter aircraft ?? This is something completely, completely new !!

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

USAF tankers fuel US Navy carrier-based fighter aircraft ?? This is something completely, completely new !!

This is in your country 404 now ... all such

[Sergey Goncharov]

"Tee divi !!" I didn't know, I didn't know ... I confess.

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

"Tee divi !!" I didn't know, I didn't know ... I confess.

There are many more "photo facts", but Lockheed Martin Corporation keeps its "archives" ... only for the web

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply did not exist

And before 1980 -?
Or don't you know that in all countries "eccentrics" with the letter "M" come to power from time to time
Or have you forgotten what the "maize" did with ALL aviation in 1961, and the current "tagged" and .. "lover of little white and red"?

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

As, however, does not exist now

Absolutely ... NOT TRUE
The events of September 11 ... very much "sobered" the command of the US Army (well, like us ... the events of our 080808), so now thirty air bases "participate" in combat duty of fighters (against seven before September 11).
Eight squadrons, which include 130 interceptors and 8 AWACS aircraft.
The airspace over the US capital is guarded by the 113th National Guard Air Force Aviation wing, which is deployed at an air base in Maryland.
At the beginning of 2006, 27 squadrons joined the combat duty, armed with 5-generation F-22 “Reptor” aircraft.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Do you know the length of the US coastline ?? No?? So I remind you - 19924 km. What are 130 (oh, yo-mine !!) interceptors, nafik ??

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Do you know the length of the US coastline ?? No??

Do you know about a country like Russia? No? So I remind you -62 kilometers - This is the total length of the land and sea borders of Russia. She shares so - maritime border stretching for 37 kilometers, much longer land, equal to 24 625,3 km.
Of the total length of the sea borders, most namely, 19 km are in the Arctic sector, that is, on the northern border of Russia.
And how many interceptors do we have? And nothing ... grab and don't bathe

[Sergey Goncharov]

There is a "small" problem - you have interceptors not just enough. Even the resources of the RTV to create a continuous radar field in the border air defense zone - and even that not enough. But yes - you "do not worry" about this - Thanksgiving propaganda. "Thirst is nothing. Image is everything !!" (c) (paraphrase)

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

There is a "small" problem - you just do not have enough interceptors.

Do not juggle or try to drag me into "politics"
And in general, you have chosen as your opponents "an enemy that is extremely inconvenient for you ..."
As a former military man, I very clearly answer all your "attempts" to compare .. "soft with ... warm"
And you, as a true "patriot" of your 404 country, are trying to "spin like .." in a frying pan.
Why don't you write to your "curators" that ..."There is a" small "problem - you just do not have enough interceptors"
Stsikontno ????
About "propaganda" this is just not for me ... "You" exist only thanks to the "softness of the GDP" .... it would have been my will still in 2014 would have driven "you all ... in a galley with" Daddy "in the West Boog and there and .... "left" forever

[Waldemar]

Can’t his fighters catch up, is such a useless supersonic?

[Henderson]

why can't it?

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

Tu-160

And in a few years, how many will be in the ranks of the Tu-160 and these ... "paupers"?

[EvilLion]

Considering that China doesn’t particularly fly into airplanes, I don’t expect any appearance of these undershots at all, there is a Tu-160 and they are going to build it anyway.

[Chertt]

Quote from rudolf

What versions of copying will move here now?

And the Chinese do not hide it. More precisely, they do not confirm or deny. Thanks to the "borrowings" of the PRC over the years, they were able to create high-tech production, which they would have spent decades, and not the fact that they would have been able to.

[voyaka uh]

The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.

[yehat]

and they’re honored to deceive, beat and mock non-Chinese in every possible way

[Chertt]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."

You won't copy all the time, you have to invent it yourself. And the "invention" has disappeared

[Maz]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.

Less words are more deeds, also from the Chinese, and they are still right that their culture is more than Jewish. They know how to respect and be friends, and not to partner, like some.

[Waldemar]

This is all of China.

[Misha Honest]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.

I agree with the Chinese. I see nothing wrong with this. Remember that all the first Soviet developments in military equipment are copies of British, French and German equipment ... And if you delve deeper into history further, then Peter I studied shipbuilding in England and Holland ...

[dSK]

Quote from rudolf

If I’m not mistaken, they have held the first place in the number of patents for new inventions for several years in a row.

Decades stable GDP growth of at least 5-6 %% per year will allow to catch up and overtake the States (2-3 %%) ...

[dauria]

will catch up and overtake the States

So on GDP at parity already surpassed. It’s not their fault that the Chinese hairdresser, or the driver, or the lawyer receives much less than the American. Count honestly, not in dollars, but in hairstyles, ton-kilometers, liters (or rather, all manufactured goods and services in US prices) —that will be the same GDP at PPP.

[Waldemar]

China's economy no longer grows like this for three years

[Misha Honest]

Quote: Valdemar

China's economy no longer grows like this for three years

And our experts say that China's economy is growing at 6,6%. Whereas we have only 1,7% ... Toucher.

[dSK]

Quote: Misha Honest

economic growth in China - 6,6%.

History of GDP of the People's Republic of China:
From 1979 to 2010 (30 years), China's average annual GDP growth was 9,91%, peaked at 15,2% in 1984, a record low of 3,8% in 1990. / Wikipedia /

yes, they themselves say that 6,6% is "stagnation" for them ...

Quote: Valdemar

The Chinese economy has not grown like this for three years.

[Misha Honest]

Quote from dsk

yes, they themselves say that 6,6% is "stagnation" for them ...

And we, before this "stagnation" as the moon on foot ...

[Waldemar]

White guest workers give them patents

[dSK]

Quote: Valdemar

white migrant workers

unfortunately all the "swarthy" ones come to us ...

[Misha Honest]

I hear from Pindo-sa. )

[Kurare]

Quote from rudolf

Well done Chinese.

They allocate money unnecessarily for these needs, and so they can afford it.

[Kurare]

Quote from rudolf

First do, and then show?

And what do you suggest, not to do, but to show mock-ups of paper mache?

Quote from rudolf

No money will be cured by idle talk.

It’s hard to say whether they will get a good plane. But they have this opportunity and they do.

[Kurare]

Quote from rudolf

First you need to do it, and then cheeks already inflated.

So the Chinese are doing, while greatly blowing their cheeks.

Do not forget one more very important thing: over the past 25-30 years, the West has built a colossal production base in China, in fact, made the "workshop of the world". Over the same years in Russia, on the contrary, the degradation of production continued. The fact that there is still a lot we can do is just a miracle!

[Kurare]

Quote from rudolf

And why not?

But because Russia has a lot of "good" things: gas, oil and other minerals. This is how the oligarchs "multiplied".

In addition, the legacy of the USSR squeezed like a lemon. And creating something new is always more difficult.

[sabotage]

Quote: Kurare

But because Russia has a lot of "good" things: gas, oil and other minerals. This is how the oligarchs "multiplied".

China does not have much less.

[Kurare]

Quote: sabotage

China does not have much less.

Just this "good" is much less, otherwise they would not buy gas in Russia, for example.

[Misha Honest]

China has no oil and gas from words in general ... Learn history and geography.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Actually - Continental China has quite decent oil reserves in the South China Sea. They just think in Beijing while their development is inappropriate.

[Henderson]

Quote: Misha Honest

Learn history and geography.

You start with yourself. You look and grow to the level of the Chinese.

[sabotage]

Quote: Misha Honest

0
China has no oil and gas from words in general ... Learn history and geography.

They consume more than Russia can get.

[Sergey Goncharov]

What was stopping us? Our salary in the 90s was not higher than the Chinese

Are you ready to refuse old-age pensions to the rural population (except for employees) ?? But in the "flourishing" mainland China, this is still the case ...

[Random]

Quote: Kurare

Over the same years, in Russia, on the contrary, the degradation of production continued.

And what is this ... "merit", "statement of fact" or ... "inflating shek" ... from our side?

[Kurare]

Quote: Random

And what is this ... "merit", "statement of fact" or ... "inflating shek" ... from our side?

Such is reality, the history of a great country. There is no sense in returning what was lost, letting out bubbles from the nose. Either work, or lose what is left.

[Random]

Quote: Kurare

There is no sense in returning what was lost, letting out bubbles from the nose. Either work, or lose what is left.

Hard to disagree

[Kurare]

Quote: Random

Hard to disagree

I'm realist. It is what it is. I would like to write something else, but then - that would not be true.

[Waldemar]

Why the flag of Germany?

[Random]

Quote from rudolf

That's just according to the models of papier mache we are ahead of the rest.

And "text ... text" .. more

I read the other day about the past salons of our Navy .... it became really sad

[Random]

Quote from rudolf

Man, the Navy has been sad for a long time ...

Well, about the situation with "you" (with Boa and another group of comrades ) I still remember it .... in "antiquity" but that’s all about it ..... it was news to me

[Random]

Quote: Kurare

They allocate money for these needs

Maybe "they steal less"? and fewer "friends and associates" ... to the bins of the motherland (M. Zadornov)

[Kurare]

Quote: Random

Maybe "they steal less"?

Maybe less. Or maybe, like the Americans, there’s enough money for both

[Random]

Quote: Kurare

enough money for both

Now on YouTube, the new film "How the kings of state corporations live" look and .. all questions about the availability of money ... will disappear immediately

[Kurare]

Thanks, be sure to watch!

[Henderson]

Quote: Kurare

They allocate money unnecessarily for these needs, and so they can afford it.

In Russia, they also emit unmeasured. Maybe it's not so much about money?

[Antokha]

I do not agree. Maybe from the very top, the amounts begin to go large, but the developers get a little, even if the leadership does not steal.

[Henderson]

and it turns out that the point is not how much money is allocated

[keeper03]

Yeah, you can envy their perseverance! And what about "our" MS-21 ?! Is the case moving or the curators do not give?

[Kurare]

Quote: keeper03

And what about "our" MC-21 ?!

Yes, now the details for the first commercial copy are being prepared:
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112922/

[Junior Private]

Interestingly, what will happen to the engine resource?

[Petrix]

Quote: Junior Private

Interestingly, what will happen to the engine resource?

The resource excites the poor. The rich are interested in opportunities, albeit at an expensive price.

[ANCIENT]

with such air intakes even radars of the Paleozoic era will be seen for many hundreds of kilometers.

[Henderson]

Hehe. Evaluating the EPR by left renders that have nothing to do with reality, this is in the spirit of analysts with VO.

[Misha Honest]

Quote: Henderson

Hehe. Evaluating the EPR by left renders that have nothing to do with reality, this is in the spirit of analysts with VO.

I agree. Sushka has almost a black hole there and nothing.

[Henderson]

Oh, external pendants !!

[EvilLion]

Well, a prototype flies, something is being measured. Extra evidence that China does not have a very clear understanding of what they really need. Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile at 95 km from a Tu-3000? In this case, the carrier is not intercepted by any air defense except the ship’s air defense at all, there are no such fighters, or SAM, to carry out the interception. But you can’t put air defense destroyers at every point in the ocean.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile for 95 km with a Tu-3000

All our missile carriers were primarily intended for use in the "interests" of the USSR Navy (only the Tu-160 "fell out" of this concept).
Currently, with us, only Tu-22M3 can fly with RCC in YES, in the FBA Su-34 and Su-24, well, in the IA Su-30SM and Su-35 ... all
And we do not have CRP with a flight range of 3000km.
It is intercepted evenly at the launch line of 1000 km, unless it is an automatic control system with a special aircraft carrier with a clean air defense wing, and then ... advanced in a threatening direction and then ... only at the transition to the deployment area

[EvilLion]

I don’t give a damn about RCC, X-101 will fly from the center of the ocean to the coast.

[Henderson]

and the enemy’s ships will remain safe and sound at sea and strike

[EvilLion]

What kind? Aircraft carriers or what? You will decide what you need. A submarine, if you put a hundred "tomahawks" in it, will calmly go anywhere and no anti-ship missiles will help against it.

Surface ships are destroyed in a mass of ways. There are, for example, ground heavy RCC.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

You already decide what you need

Rather, you need to decide ... what do you need?
Axes fly the same ... God forbid, this time ..... how many X-101 carriers do you have and how many ????
And about the "density of the volley" I generally ... will modestly keep silent
Well, destroyers and URO cruisers have become at a distance of 1000 miles from our beoregs and what ... what "heavy anti-ship missiles" will you get them?

[Petrix]

Quote: EvilLion

Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile for 95 km with a Tu-3000.

Why then bombers at all? You can shoot missiles right from the airfield. And if the missiles are over, but need to fight?

[EvilLion]

Exactly why? Just bring the rocket to the launch point, start it from the ground, well, everything has been invented here for a long time, however, a rocket does not need to accelerate and overcome gravity, reaching the flight altitude. And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then there even the Tu-22M3 was superfluous.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

Just bring the rocket to the launch point

Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier than ... carriers at airfields one rocket from them and ... everything

Quote: EvilLion

from an airplane, however, a rocket does not need to accelerate and overcome gravity, reaching a flight altitude

X-101 and ... gravity? Confuse nothing

Quote: EvilLion

And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then even the Tu-22M3 was redundant there.

Not redundant but ... EXTRA

[EvilLion]

No, I don’t confuse. In order for a rocket to reach a height of kilometers in 10 and accelerate to at least 200 m / s, it is necessary to expend some energy, which an airplane spends during an air launch. Terrestrial missiles will turn out to be larger, well, or will fly not so far.

Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier

So who argues. With the normal development of missile weapons, we come to reduce the role of the carrier. You can theoretically even make a tactical missile that will attack tanks from 100 km, on the principle that why hang it on a carrier when you can just crash into a target and it can be a cheaper system with a helicopter or plane.

[Random]

Quote: EvilLion

No, I don’t confuse. In order for a rocket to reach a height of 10 kilometers and accelerate to at least 200 m / s, it is necessary to expend some energy, which an airplane spends during an air launch.

It is you who have gone ..not .. "into that steppe" (or trying to ... get out of the corner into which they drove themselves)?
You spoke for the Tu-160, Tu-95 and X-101 missiles ... I asked the question .... what is the gravity of the X-101 in FIG.
For the X-22 rocket absolutely .. "on the drum" ... what is its starting altitude and speed ... everything is limited by the capabilities of the PNA, for the X-32 .... Novel. for the Dagger .... a lot of theories as it will be in practice ... while officially 800 km.
But the Tu-22M3 and the MiG-31 still need to .. somehow reach the launch line

[Petrix]

Quote: EvilLion

You can theoretically even make a tactical missile, which will attack tanks from 100 km

For a better understanding, you can refer to the limit values. Those. shoot from the center of Siberia and get into a soldier in a trench in Texas. Technically, this is possible. But the practical effectiveness is zero. Offhand:
- to the pool you need to attach a couple of steps from the ICBM;
- a soldier can take a step to the side - the target needs to be tracked - attach a space communication to the pool or shoot in one gulp, taking into account the flight time and, accordingly, the area of ​​the possible location of the target during this time;
- Do you need to make sure you hit? To repeat if necessary.
- the enemy can detect the starting bullet and sleep during the flight time, dine and hide behind a sandbag;
- and if a more important target is suddenly discovered, then a re-targeting system or even self-destruction must be attached to the pool;
- if there are many goals, you need to land all the aviation of the allies and neutral countries on the ground along the way of a volley or line.

[Iline]

Quote: Random

Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier than ... carriers at airfields

Take a look at the globe. After all, one of the likely opponents for us is the United States. Now measure the distance, well, at least from the coast of Canada to the southern states. Well, how do you like the launch range? from well-hidden ground-based missiles?
In the 92nd year from Anadyr to Louisiana they sawed in a straight line for 12 hours, sat down on the last drops of fuel.

[Sergey Goncharov]

measure the distance, well, at least from the coast of Canada to the southern states. Well, how do you like the launch range? from well-hidden ground-based missiles?

Well, let's say that strategic missile launchers with a flight range quite comparable to the combat range of a TSB were created back in the 1950s. And the "Chelomeevskoe" design bureau almost until recent years was worn with the reincarnation of this idea - the "Meteorite" RC. Yes, and VVP in the spring showed an enticing clip of the flight of the CD with a nuclear ramjet engine.

[Iline]

From the conversations, I realized that we are talking about launching aircraft missiles from the ground instead of a carrier aircraft. Therefore, he suggested measuring the distance. Maybe I'm wrong in my conclusions and it was about ICBMs, but I did not meet such an abbreviation.
Each target has its own coordinates and for the same naval Gauges it is necessary to advance at least on a boat to begin with in the area of ​​a possible launch.
The use of the X-101 in Syria is a simple PR, they could be launched right above Engels and they would have safely reached the targets in the designated area. Only here they are not intended for this region at all.

[Random]

Quote: Iline

From the conversations, I realized that we are talking about launching aircraft missiles from the ground instead of a carrier aircraft.

They didn’t understand correctly ... the issue of AKP and ground-based missiles was discussed (meaning Poplar, Yars) i.e. mobile soil complexes.
And second ... Minuteman and Polaris will fly much earlier to the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 "lined up in a ruler, than the personnel will arrive on alarm or to the place of assembly
Photos of parking lots in Engels will not be cited, probably you have "seen enough" for your service that you probably know the number of PAK-17s at each parking lot

[Sergey Goncharov]

Minuteman and Polaris will fly much earlier to the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 "lined up in a ruler, than the personnel will arrive on alarm or to the place of assembly

Well - the United States Navy has no Polaris for a long time - but it doesn't matter. The time from the announcement of the "nuclear alert" to the start of the B-52 on duty during the Cold War was 20 minutes. Time of arrival of "Minutemen" (or our "there") - 30 minutes. Count yourself ...

[Random]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

before the start of the B-52 on duty during the Cold War it was 20 minutes.

You are confusing start and takeoff ...... start is taxiing out of the parking lot, and before that it would be necessary to start (even if in a package of 2), warm up, check the control (at least according to a short circuit) and .. then " roll to the preliminary start
Even if the takeoff interval is 30 seconds (although for the B-52 it is not less than a minute) will you calculate the time for the departure of the wing?

[Iline]

On this occasion, I can say one thing - a nuclear war does not start overnight. The preparatory period takes a very impressive time and includes such events with the troops that it is impossible to hide it from a potential enemy. And therefore, every year a directive is issued in the unit indicating the dispersion airfields and the number of aircraft in strike groups at these airfields. On this basis, inspections of these aerodromes are regularly conducted for the availability of the necessary funds on them to ensure combat sorture and correction, if necessary, a relocation plan.
Well, I won’t talk about the time of the combat departure from readiness No. 1, but the missiles will not be able to fly in case of a timely arrival signal.

[Random]

Quote: Iline

On this occasion, I can say one thing - a nuclear war does not start overnight

I agree with this ... there is a threatened period, etc. etc.
What is relocation to YES, I've "seen enough" ... above the roof, so please don't tell me anything about the relocation itself or about getting out of the blow

Quote: Iline

Well, I won’t talk about the time of the combat departure from readiness No. 1, but the missiles will not be able to fly in case of a timely arrival signal.

Yah???? And what about the territory from the territory of Europe in any way? And nothing? But from the waters of the Mediterranean ... the same way?

[Henderson]

Quote: EvilLion

And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then even the Tu-22M3 was redundant there.

and if you don’t pour FABs, then the bomber is very convenient and necessary, capable of neutralizing, for example, an entire air base with one single call:

Fabs so never learn

[Random]

Quote: Henderson

Fabs so never learn

I repeat ... "never say .... never"
Belarus has developed and is using the upgraded Module-A kit, designed to give high-precision high-explosive bombs high-precision weapons. The module was developed at the 558th aircraft repair plant in Baranovichi.

[Henderson]

So this is no longer a pure FAB, it is a belated analogue of JDAM. JDAM is also usually not called GBU-38, for example.
And with them already as an addition, the stealth of the carrier is very useful.

[Sergey Goncharov]

NNZ, in Russia such "conversion kits" were created even earlier. In "Takeoff" already in September 2008 there was a good publication about these divisions - "JDAM and JSOW in Russian".

[Henderson]

In Russia, Zvorykin also invented television. Useless then?

[Sergey Goncharov]

This is already a question of the outcome of the test for the presence and performance of an organ called "mosk" for the "elite" ...

[Jerk]

Some crap. All of them in Yugoslavia have already seen their invisibility for air defense. The supersonic bomber of the figs, so long as he draws up, the war will end. It would be more useful to them if the AWACS plane and analogues of the Bears for patrolling and Swans - for a quick strike. Although for this they have an ICBM, and even anti-ship, they say)))

[Ross xnumx]

I do not know what characteristics can be laid in a stealth bomber and why, even if the S-300 detects and is capable of destroying smaller objects? Cruise missiles are another matter ... Although, it is necessary to occupy these 1 inhabitants with something ...
But in general, I like the pace of development of the country, which was only snatched 40 years ago, drinking Chinese gull from Chinese thermoses. She did not deviate from the course and became a leader who stopped bowing to the United States (perhaps not without the help of the USSR and the Russian Federation). And an example - my VVK-neyka has been working for 15 years ...

[Henderson]

The only question is the detection distance. Suppose the detection radius is reduced by 2 times (actually more)
How many additional air defense systems must be put on duty to cover the holes formed in the former continuous radar field?

[spirit]

Yes, everyone knows that some fools are sitting on the hill, they don’t understand anything in the aircraft industry
Well, if PAK YES does appear (subsonic and with a stealth element) then the rhetoric will immediately change, though with the amendment that we copied everything from the developments 100 years ago. Respecting and recognizing the enemy is far from every possibility

[Henderson]

With PAK YES it will be something like with PAK FA. It is only even more extended, because money and competence are becoming less and less, and the program is much more expensive and in itself is much more complicated.

[dauria]

Suppose the detection radius is reduced by 2 times (actually more)

Reduce range by 2 times - this EPR must be reduced by 16 times. Without bothering with the coating, intakes and corners of a bomber of this shape in the region of 20 sq.m. Now you need to jump out of your pants and reduce to 1 sq. M.
For comparison, 0,0214 sq. M. Is an EPR of a mallard duck. (How do you like the myth of F-35 with a ping-pong ball?) So, in reality, these 2 times of yours are most likely the reality. For fighters in a duel, 50 km instead of 100 is a really strong trump card. And here you need to look and think with a strategic bomber. After all, you have to pay for invisibility. Not only by price, but by range or payload.

[Henderson]

Quote: dauria

bomber fences and corners of this shape in the region of 20 sq.m

EPR B-52, according to Soviet estimates, is about 100sq.m. if anything. 20m this is a 5 times decrease.

Quote: dauria

How do you like the myth of the F-35 with a ping-pong ball?

Yes, a normal myth. The same as 0.3 meters in the Su-57.
OK. Let's say 2 times this is reality. I hope they studied school geometry? Can you answer the question?

[dauria]

EPR B-52, according to Soviet estimates, is about 100sq.m.

Have you read it carefully? "at the bomber this form in the area of ​​20 square meters. "And not at an angular monster with eight glowing engine compressors. B-1A has 16 square meters, B -1B (modifications with composites and measures to reduce ESR) already have a couple of square meters. That's the question - is it worth spoiling the aerodynamic quality of 18 units (achieved by a bunch of tricks) in order to further reduce the RCS? This will result in a thousand kilometers of range, for example, for the Tu-160. And for reference, the range is proportional to the fourth root of the RCS.

[Alexander Galaktionov]

China has already tested its stealth and used weapons in the usa the entire board number 1 usa in dust

[Sergei75]

Well done, only she is really stealth or just like, and do we have effective means of defeating her?

[Waldemar]

There are means of destruction and detection

[Sergey Goncharov]

Yes, there is, there is a means of detecting "stealth aircraft" - and since time immemorial. The first was the Czechoslovakian RTR station and the "passive location" "Vera" "originally" almost from the 1970s.

[Darter88]

Some kind of beautiful, brutal or something, do not you? Not?

[Waldemar]

We do not find. They are all clumsy

[Misha Honest]

We find. Given that PAK YES even FIG knows how to wait. Yes, and will it be at all?

[Henderson]

For believers, here is the original photo:

[Sergey Goncharov]

And yet - the well-deserved old Tu-16 as a carrier of the ALCM DB - is still quite "in sports uniform" !!

[Sergei Ivanovich]

Something not perceptibly similar ...

[NF68]

Here is the "backward" China.