Military Review

Chinese stealth ready for flight tests

207
China is preparing to carry out the first flight of a strategic bomber of the new generation Hong-20, according to the Global Times information portal.


Chinese stealth ready for flight tests


The newest Chinese strategic "stealth" - Hong-20 bomber, which is essentially the equivalent of the American B-2 Spirit, has been created since the beginning of the 2010-s. According to information available in open sources, the flight prototype of the bomber was created already in 2013 year. The details of the development itself are not known, but in the summer of this year, China Central Television showed footage of the ground tests of the Chinese "stealth", and now information has appeared on its flight tests.

China traditionally does not disclose the details of its development, but at the moment it is known that the bomber was created according to the "flying wing" scheme and resembles the American Northrop B-2 Spirit. The aircraft subsonic, is positioned as "subtle." There are no exact tactical and technical data, but in the technical specifications it is indicated that the aircraft should be able to deliver 10 tons of bomb-missile load to a distance of eight thousand kilometers without refueling. The main weapons Hong-20 planned to make cruise missiles CJ-10K with conventional and nuclear warheads.

The United States has already stated that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage of surface military operations and the possibility of defeating US naval bases.
Photos used:
https://www.youtube.com/
207 comments
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 12 October 2018 12: 40
    -14
    why do they need this crap, it’s not clear ... not a very good thing.
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 12 October 2018 12: 44
      +13
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      why do they need this crap, it’s not clear

      This is understandable
      The US has already announced that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage area of ​​surface military operations and the possibility of hitting US naval bases

      Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 12 October 2018 13: 01
        +28
        Quote: Chertt
        Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out

        He doesn’t choose weapons .. whether it’s striped or someone else ... China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 12 October 2018 13: 10
          +8
          Quote: Svarog
          China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..

          With this fact, no one (from reasonable people), and does not argue. And as an ally in the fight against the "exclusive hegemon" China is very useful. But there is no need to make a new idol out of the "yellow rabbits".
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 12 October 2018 20: 29
            +1
            "If the people do not want to feed their army, they will feed someone else's."
            It has long been said, but always true.
            Any modern army should have modern aviation.
            Long-range invisibles are an important part of modern aviation.
            That's what is respected in China - they don’t tell ANYTHING about their modern designs. That's right!
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 13 October 2018 13: 18
            0
            Of allies?
            1. Chertt
              Chertt 13 October 2018 13: 21
              -1
              situational allies
        2. Normal ok
          Normal ok 13 October 2018 17: 24
          +1
          Quote: Svarog
          He doesn’t choose weapons .. whether it’s striped or someone else ... China is developing rapidly, without noise and dust .. and this is a fact ..

          Only the lazy on the site did not make fun of the "stealth" technology - they say all this is nonsense. But China is also implementing such a program.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 12 October 2018 13: 10
        +4
        Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 12 October 2018 13: 20
          +2
          I agree. I think that the "club" should already be prepared. In case, having knocked down one "hegemon", another will climb in his place - squinted
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 October 2018 13: 23
          +1
          That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.
          1. Random
            Random 12 October 2018 13: 43
            +7
            Quote: EvilLion
            That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.

            I will correct a little wink :
            1. The creation of the first Soviet long-range aviation missile system "Comet" unfolded in 1947.
            The KS-1 cruise missile (according to the then terminology of the “Cruise Shell-1” product “E”) was developed by A.I. Mikoyan's OKB-155 (led by M.I. Gurevich and A.Ya. Bereznyak), the Tu- 4 was prepared by OKB-156 A.N. Tupolev (supervised by A.V. Na-dashkevich); the control and guidance system was made by SKB-1 (led by S. L. Beria-son L. P. Beria), it also played the role of the lead developer of “Comet”.
            The main purpose of the system was the fight against surface ships at the borders of up to 2000 km from the base. KS-1 was equipped with an RD-500K engine and had the following characteristics: length - 8,29 m, wingspan - 4,722 m, launch weight - 2735 kg, warhead weight - 1000 kg, top speed - 1050-1100 km / h and range Flight - 70-90 km.

            2.In 1954, the serial Tu-16 No. 4200305 was converted into an experimental missile carrier.
            At the same time, the aircraft part of the Comet complex from Tu-4 was transferred to the car. Only the radar, which became known as “Cobalt-1M,” underwent changes. The crew of the carrier increased to seven people. Factory tests, which began in August and ended in November 1954, were carried out by a crew led by test pilot Yu.T. Alasheev. A total of 18 flights were completed with a total duration of 9 hours 14 minutes. Combat discharge KS-1 was carried out at altitudes of 3500-4000 m and speeds up to

            370 km / h in the instrument, while the discharge did not affect the behavior of the carrier. The maximum instrumental speed of the Tu-16 with two KS-1 was 575 km / h, while the vibration of the suspensions were not observed. According to the results of factory tests, the Act noted that the take-off and landing of the Tu-16 with two KS-1s according to the piloting technique are no different from the take-off and landing of serial vehicles. Landing speed with a mass of 47000 kg (with two KS-1) increased by 10-15 km / h. The Cobalt -1M station was operating normally, the target was detected after about 160 km, its capture and auto tracking were stable. When flying with one missile, it was recommended to suspend it under the left console, and compensate by pumping fuel to the right.
            In addition, it was recommended that the maximum speed of an aircraft with a radar antenna released be maintained within the range of 520-550 km / h in the instrument due to vibration of the antenna cowl.
            At the beginning of next year, the experimental Tu-16KS successfully passed tests at the Bagerovo training range, after which it was recommended for adoption.
            With 1954 1958 for years. Plant No. 22 in Kazan produced 107 Tu-16KS, of which in 1958 59 vehicles with the Tu-16KS (ZA) refueling system. Of the total number of carriers of the order of 40 in the 1960s. were transferred to Indonesia and Egypt, and 65 were converted into carriers of the KSR-2 and KSR-11 missiles.
            1. Sergey Goncharov
              Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 00: 56
              0
              Actually - the original idea belonged to the carriers of the "gloomy Teutonic genius", who launched "V-1" across Britain from the "Heinkel-111" of the 200th squadron in 1944-1945.
              Our analogs are the Chelomeev 10X and subsequent samples. hi
          2. Henderson
            Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 32
            -1
            Quote: EvilLion
            That's just in the 60s they came up with hanging long-range missiles on bombers.

            and the Chinese are stupid and never think of it
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 39
              -7
              The Americans did not really realize nifig in this regard. B-1B, for example, can only do bombs.
              1. Random
                Random 12 October 2018 14: 43
                +4
                Quote: EvilLion
                B-1B, for example, can only do bombs.

                Never say .... never, well, or "only" wink
                1. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 55
                  +2
                  But from this place on in more detail, what modifications and since when they know how to rockets? And then I might have missed something.
                  1. Random
                    Random 12 October 2018 15: 13
                    +6
                    Quote: EvilLion
                    what modifications and since when are they able to rockets?

                    Strategic bomber V-1V, carries 24 cruise missiles soldier "Air - surface" AGM-158 JASSM.

                    Photo: El Udeid Air Base, Qatar, August 25, 2018 soldier
                    1. EvilLion
                      EvilLion 12 October 2018 15: 26
                      -1
                      Yes, added in the middle of 2000's.
                  2. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 12 October 2018 16: 15
                    +5
                    Quote: EvilLion
                    maybe I missed something.

                    Probably missed something. B-1b was originally imprisoned for missiles, Random everything clearly tells. It was later taught to bombs when the Americans took hegemony around the world.
        3. Berkut24
          Berkut24 12 October 2018 13: 32
          -1
          The star-striped caput did not reach anywhere, and in the future it will relatively soon be decommissioned. For it turned out to be useless against modern air defense. Especially in the story of the bombs.
        4. Maz
          Maz 12 October 2018 13: 40
          +1
          Rather
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.
          reach the strategic ally of the United States rather than Peter, that is, to Israel, the Schaub select and arrogance diminish the champions in this sport.
        5. Piramidon
          Piramidon 12 October 2018 13: 42
          -1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          ... reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. ... That’s what stealth strategists do

          Who will allow him to fly to St. Petersburg? It has already been proven that "stealth" is a myth.
        6. Ros 56
          Ros 56 12 October 2018 15: 54
          0
          Tel Aviv is closer than Peter, and it will not even reach the Urals.
        7. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 12 October 2018 18: 41
          0
          Stealth is relevant only when it can be radiated from the front and at a low altitude, and if it flies above the radar, then the signal from it will be reflected just like any other aircraft of a similar size ...

          Stealth is a dubious plus for a fighter, and even more so for a bomber ...
        8. APASUS
          APASUS 12 October 2018 19: 40
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg. That's what strategic stealth does: flew half the Earth, dropped dozens of precision bombs and back to base.

          China already has enough problems and they don’t need another competitor with a nuclear triad behind their backs. I won’t say any further, but today they need us behind their backs as a support, not an enemy
        9. Compasure
          Compasure 12 October 2018 23: 04
          0
          It will be necessary to fly to St. Petersburg through the North Pole laughing
        10. Waldemar
          Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 23
          0
          And to Israel
        11. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 13 October 2018 00: 57
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Yellow Kaput reaches equally easily both to Washington and to St. Petersburg.

          To Tel Aviv, by the way, too ...
      3. Corn
        Corn 12 October 2018 14: 14
        +3
        Quote: Chertt
        Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm.

        Where is China, where is America and where is Russia ... not the "striped" need to worry, it is not with them under the border that the dragon is gaining strength. Knowing about the ways of conducting colonial policy, it becomes quite sad.
      4. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 12 October 2018 21: 33
        0
        Quote: Chertt
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        why do they need this crap, it’s not clear

        This is understandable
        The US has already announced that China is creating a new bomber to increase the coverage area of ​​surface military operations and the possibility of hitting US naval bases

        Whatever the stripes, no matter where they feel calm. Yellow Kaput reaches out

        probably the best part is that you are supported in your fantasies ....
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 12 October 2018 12: 45
      +8
      PAK YES will come out and immediately become an incredibly useful and very successful thing.
      As was already the case with the F-22 with the advent of PakFA, and with the tomahawk with the advent of the caliber
      1. KLV2018
        KLV2018 12 October 2018 12: 51
        +6
        Quote: BlackMokona
        PAK YES will come out and immediately become an incredibly useful and very successful thing.
        As was already the case with the F-22 with the advent of PakFA, and with the tomahawk with the advent of the caliber

        the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?
        1. yehat
          yehat 12 October 2018 13: 33
          +2
          nobody knows. they call the deadlines completely absurd - like "tests will begin in 2034"
          how they planned this date is completely incomprehensible, because in our country the government refuses to plan the economy.
          Even the very formal beginning of the PAK DA project stretched out in time for at least 4 years.
          Recently, news came that they began to create engines. If it will be like with product 30, then 2030 is a very optimistic date, and the Ura propagandists from EP call 2023-25 ​​years,
          which are calculated solely from presidential terms and other consumer goods, not connected in any way with industry.
        2. Random
          Random 12 October 2018 13: 35
          +1
          Quote: KLV2018
          the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?

          Purely theoretically, "based" on the statements of the Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Oleg Bocharov - "....." Now the key issue is the creation of special technical conditions for the design and construction of such facilities and their commissioning. Tupolev PJSC has submitted an application the Ministry of Industry and Trade for this site alone for 19 billion rubles, which should come from the current budget in addition to the money that the enterprise has. We will seriously look to ensure that funds are invested effectively. We have the highest degree of control over the timely commissioning of these facilities. But we perfectly understand that not a single object can be excluded. Because we have created unique mechanical production, we will need new technologies - everything that exists in the world in almost a single copy and is a unique competence for the Russian state. "

          According to him, all this needs to be prepared by 2025. “We need to re-create the stand base for this aircraft. The most powerful comprehensive re-equipment of the enterprise will take place with new technological machines and equipment, fundamentally new research and development stands, which will allow us to continue to hold priority in this direction. These are the most powerful financial investments that the Ministry of Industry and Trade will make in the next three years, ”predicts Oleg Bocharov. “We hope that the State Duma will support us, because this is the main priority.”
          Source: https://realnoevremya.ru/articles/10958 ... -gorbunova
          Knowing a little "our capabilities" at the present time, then ... so in 10 years ... not earlier soldier
          1. lucul
            lucul 12 October 2018 14: 13
            +2
            The most powerful comprehensive re-equipment of the enterprise will take place with new technological machines and equipment, fundamentally new research and development stands, which will allow us to continue to hold priority in this direction.

            This is the most basic. On old equipment you will not get far.
            It is not possible, for example, to measure millimeters / micrometers with a conventional construction tape measure.
            1. Random
              Random 12 October 2018 14: 29
              +1
              Quote: lucul
              This is the most basic. On old equipment you will not get far.

              So this is not in dispute wink
            2. Waldemar
              Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 28
              0
              This is still not measured with the USSR roulette. Most likely we are talking about cnc machines and various equipment
            3. ver_
              ver_ 14 October 2018 10: 09
              0
              ... one * wizard * drilled the hair with a drill that he made from a piano string .., made a rose from a piece of red paint from an ancient painting and placed this flower in his hair .. Drilled and set everything in the pauses between heartbeats ... So all this equipment - excuse, cut and other * charms * to drag time and * forge grandmas * ..
        3. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 01
          0
          Quote: KLV2018
          the question is when and how much will PAK YES come out?

          The question is - will it even come out PAK YES? More precisely, will he have time to leave before the start of World War 3? bully
          1. Sergey Goncharov
            Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 44
            0
            One can raise the question in another way - is the same PAK YES really needed at all? what Given that the geostrategic position of Russia is very different from that of the United States ...
            1. Misha Honest
              Misha Honest 13 October 2018 15: 50
              0
              Quote: Sergey Goncharov
              One can raise the question in another way - is the PAK YES needed at all for the Air Force of the Russian Air Force?

              With that success one may ask - do the RF need an army, air force and navy in general?
    3. Sergey39
      Sergey39 12 October 2018 12: 45
      +2
      ,, For the possibility of defeating US naval bases.
      1. Henderson
        Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 33
        -2
        He has India and Pakistan at his side. China has no territorial problems with the United States.
        1. Sergey Goncharov
          Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 01: 00
          0
          Apart from the fact that the United States is a "subscription" of the Republic of China (Taiwan). wink bully
          1. Henderson
            Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 36
            -1
            not a US subscription, but Taiwan subscription
            1. Sergey Goncharov
              Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 41
              0
              Well - so be it. Although in the slang of my former stepdaughter (graduated from high school in 2008) - "subscription" is the one who "subscribes" for the weaker one.
              1. Henderson
                Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 49
                -1
                Slang and gop jargon is not about serious politics
                1. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 54
                  0
                  Perhaps I agree. drinks
                  1. Henderson
                    Henderson 13 October 2018 03: 13
                    -1
                    drinks perhaps I also agree
        2. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 05
          0
          Quote: Henderson
          China has no territorial problems with the United States.
          Actually above the roof ... Taiwan, Senkaku, Spratly, Midway, Japan, Hawaii, Korea, San Francisco, Alaska, etc. laughing wink
          1. Henderson
            Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 40
            -1
            "In fact" exists only in your fantasies
            1. Misha Honest
              Misha Honest 13 October 2018 15: 54
              0
              Quote: Henderson
              "In fact" exists only in your fantasies

              These are not my fantasies, but Chinese ones. wink
    4. Random
      Random 12 October 2018 13: 26
      +6
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      why do they need this crap, it’s not clear ... not a very good thing.

      Andrei, dear, but ... you're wrong wink
      This "crap" is already there, but where is our PAK YES? wink
      quote - "the terms of reference states that the aircraft should be able to deliver 10 tons of bomb and missile load over a distance of eight thousand kilometers without refueling."
      If you invest in the "framework" of the TTZ, then ... it's generally great, but with anti-ship missiles and avionics, they are all right.
      So if Che ... someone will be very sad in the Pacific Ocean, and given their construction of bases in Africa, then Indian is within walking distance, as well as the Mediterranean Sea.
      And given their ability to "produce" products in batches, then .... one can only envy
      1. Maz
        Maz 12 October 2018 13: 41
        0
        Yes, there is something
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 18
        -1
        Tu-160, totally surpassing this nonsense, is not it?
        1. Henderson
          Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 34
          -3
          Tu-160 is an ultra-expensive thing with super-sound, useless in modern conditions.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 40
            +2
            Well then, stealth is useless. Supersound at least allows you to fly away. Chasing the afterburner for the Tu-160 occupation is unpromising.
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 12 October 2018 15: 09
              -2
              Why chase him afterburner? Firstly, the Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic.
              1. albert
                albert 12 October 2018 17: 10
                0
                Quote: Henderson
                Firstly, the Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic.

                Exactly what is. The American B-1, for example, is only transonic.
                1. Iline
                  Iline 12 October 2018 19: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: albert
                  Exactly what is

                  Where did the firewood come from? While serving on them I did not observe such a wonderful ability. Moreover - even a short-term transition to supersonic dramatically increases the likelihood of not reaching the destination. Eats like a horse.
                  1. Henderson
                    Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 37
                    -4
                    For those who served and washed the floors. Transonic means lower sound speed.
                    1. Sergey Goncharov
                      Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 03: 37
                      -1
                      You are wrong. Transonic is from 0,85 to 1,5M. In Russian-language sources, this term is indeed often considered the equivalent of the term "transonic", but this notcompetently. hi
                    2. Iline
                      Iline 13 October 2018 06: 55
                      +1
                      For theorists from the couch. The question was about cruising supersonic, and not about transonic
                      1. Henderson
                        Henderson 13 October 2018 10: 07
                        -2
                        The Tu-160 has no cruising supersonic. Cruising speed of 850km / h. At afterburner, its engines have a specific consumption of 1.7kg / kgf hour. That is, 4 afterburner engines consume 42t * 4 = 169t of kerosene per hour.
                        Full aircraft refueling - 148 tons. Afterburner maximum speed - 2200 km / h
                        We get that purely for fuel on the afterburner Tu-160 is able to pass a maximum of 1900km. This is without taking into account the need for take-off, acceleration, landing and thermal limitations.
                        That is, he is either a strategist or supersonic. Together fails.
          2. Random
            Random 12 October 2018 14: 52
            +2
            Quote: Henderson
            with useless supersound in modern conditions

            And here you are absolutely wrong ... the most effective maneuver against enemy air defense missiles is .... "in time and quickly .. wash away" soldier
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 12 October 2018 15: 11
              -1
              The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all, or to remain unnoticed in it. For this, the Tu-160 and drags its missiles. But why would he need supersonic?
              Indeed, in fact, the Tu-160 in this case is an ordinary subsonic aircraft and does not exceed the Tu-95 at all, with the cost of construction and operation at times more expensive.
              1. Random
                Random 12 October 2018 15: 17
                +2
                Quote: Henderson
                The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all.

                Well, you still have to try to do it recourse
                And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled soldier
                1. Iline
                  Iline 12 October 2018 19: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Random
                  And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

                  I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles on board with a launch range of about 5 - 7, 5 thousand kilometers as it will famously dodge virtual missiles. This is not a fighter, and he simply can not twist feints in the air. The main emphasis is on the airborne defense complex.
                  And one more thing - in the military doctrine of our state of strategic aviation, the role of the second nuclear strike is assigned. Ie it is assumed. that by this time the enemy will suffer certain losses, including in air defense systems.
                  1. Henderson
                    Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Iline
                    I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles on board with a launch range of about 5 - 7, 5 thousand kilometers

                    such missiles do not exist, except your imagination
                    1. Sergey Goncharov
                      Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 03: 22
                      0
                      Hm ... X-101/102 - max range ~ 5500 km - they still attribute it (at least).
                      1. Henderson
                        Henderson 13 October 2018 09: 56
                        -4
                        Yes, you can ascribe anything. The reality is no side
                      2. Sergey Goncharov
                        Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 11: 57
                        0
                        And what is the reality - in your opinion ??
                  2. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 10: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: Iline
                    I’m very surprised at the combat use of this heavy aircraft with missiles

                    With all due respect, but ... it’s very strange to hear this from a person with such military experience and education as you soldier
                    I dare then recall that:
                    Ballistic missile maneuver (abbr. PfP) a variety of passive missile defense measuresconsisting in the departure of a unit of military equipment from the flight path of a guided missile or an unguided missile (rocket propelled grenade) of the enemy.
                    But in general, missile defense maneuvers can be divided into two large groups:
                    1. Maneuvers aimed at disrupting escort
                    2. Maneuvers aimed at disrupting guidance.
                    What am I explaining to you ... open your academic notes on the tactics of the Aviation Clans and everything is there ... "in black and white" soldier
                    Yours faithfully, drinks
                2. GibSoN
                  GibSoN 12 October 2018 21: 17
                  -3
                  And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled
                  Have you ever seen how the TU-160 Flies? What is his maneuverability? Speed ​​yes, good .. But in terms of maneuverability, especially at high speeds, it doesn’t look much better than IL-76 compared to C-17 ..
                  1. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 10: 40
                    +2
                    Quote: GibSoN
                    Have you ever seen how the TU-160 Flies?

                    Like in that joke about a crocodile wassat
                    Dear ... what do you have to do with military service, and even more so ... with aviation?
                    I understand that ... no ... Remember ... SPEED is all ... this is both the ability to maneuver and piloting at high angular velocities and the ability to quickly turn around "around the tail" by 180 degrees and ... "is banal "to escape from the fighter, or rather from his PrnK wassat
                    Less go to the show meow in the Patriot Park and look at the "super maneuverability" (ie piloting at speeds close to the minimum evolving speeds).
                    Have you heard the maneuvers against DETECTION and ACCEPTANCE? Do you know? No? ... then .... "into the garden ... all into the garden" wassat
                3. Henderson
                  Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 41
                  -3
                  Quote: Random
                  And the "maneuvers" of PIM, PFM and PZM still ... have not been canceled

                  Strategist weighing over 200 tons? Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.
                  But since you are in the subject, what is his supersonic turning radius?
                  1. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 10: 49
                    +3
                    Quote: Henderson
                    Strategist weighing over 200 tons? Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.

                    Easy and not forced - a hill, a steep dive with a V vert of 100 m / s (on the Tu-22 and 22M2 and 3 did under 170 soldier ), combat turn, spiral descent, etc. but yes .. forgot ..... the barrel (it was the barrel and not the "tub" ..... the "rear cockpit" with hanging straps untied .. even from the cups of the chairs did not fall out wassat). soldier
                    Quote: Henderson
                    But since you are in the subject, what is his supersonic turning radius?

                    It is not the magnitude of the turning radius that matters, but the ANGULAR speed at the time of its execution, and of course time.
                    At speeds with MU> 1, you can "make" a roll almost under 90 degrees and twist, the main thing for overload is not to jump out of the available values, but at a speed of 900 Km / h with such a roll you will at least jump out to the 2nd mode and 99% fall off and seal. soldier
                  2. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 11: 01
                    +4
                    Quote: Henderson
                    Your sofa to all sofas is a sofa.

                    But so frankly rude .... I do not recommend soldier Not knowing anything about a person and not knowing anything on aviation topics, "rush" with such "statements" ... right ... it's not decent wassat
              2. Sergey Goncharov
                Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 47
                +1
                The most effective maneuver is not to enter the air defense zone at all, or to remain unnoticed in it. For this, the Tu-160 and drags its missiles. But why would he need supersonic?

                To reduce the time of the throw to the target (more precisely, to the start point of the onboard TSA) - not ?? wink
                1. Henderson
                  Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 51
                  -2
                  The Tu-160 afterburner ceases to be a strategist and burns all its fuel in half an hour. He is not capable of making a throw to the goal in this situation.
                  1. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 11: 00
                    +3
                    Quote: Henderson
                    The Tu-160 afterburner ceases to be a strategist and burns all its fuel in half an hour.

                    Here you are practically right, but ..... you are very exaggerating. Yes, specific fuel consumption increases, compared with cruising, 2,5-3 times.
                    Therefore, the MFR mode is just used when getting out from under the "strike" or for a quick climb to perform a launch (if the approach to the launch line is carried out on PMV, that is, under the beams of the enemy's radar) soldier
                2. Random
                  Random 13 October 2018 10: 54
                  +4
                  Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                  To reduce the time of the throw to the target (more precisely, to the start point of the onboard TSA) - not ??

                  We call it the ABROAD soldier
                  And with accuracy, it’s the other way around ... from the launch line to the side of the house, so that you can get away from everything as quickly as possible (detection zones and zones of support of the enemy’s active air defense systems) soldier
                  "Beyond the river", after "work" we turned 180 g, fired up afterburners and ... at M> 1,7 we went "home" (to Mary) soldier The accompanying Tu-22PDS walked alongside easily, but the MiG-23ML with rockets on the suspensions ... "tearfully" asked ... "to slow down", because. they have no more than M = 1,4 with PTB and missiles soldier drinks
          3. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 12 October 2018 16: 21
            +2
            Even after the first opportunity to watch -160 up close, it seems in '88, the Americans concluded that even without having an advanced rail like -1b, -160 will enter the state air defense system "like a knife in butter." Intercepting this plane is a big headache, even from a purely financial point of view, war has its own economy.
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 12 October 2018 16: 24
              0
              from a financial point of view, any cost of interception is less than an enemy’s nuclear strike
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 13 October 2018 01: 41
                +2
                Another зрения viewing angle ’: to intercept -160 before entering the missile launch area, it is necessary to keep forces and means in these areas - very expensive. Of course, when ´ a big giveaway ’went out, the money becomes meaningless, but before that .. it’s very expensive.
                1. Henderson
                  Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 35
                  -1
                  to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.
                  1. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 13 October 2018 10: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: Henderson
                    to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.

                    Sorry, it seems to me that you do not quite imagine the features of the combat use of -160 with missiles. It is necessary to put forward interceptors in the launch area, and these are huge and very remote regions
                  2. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 11: 09
                    +2
                    Quote: Henderson
                    to intercept 160 supersonic is not needed.

                    I see ... the plane was seen only in the picture ... well, maybe by .. "zomboyaschiku" wassat
                    Even the duty link performs maneuvers on reaching the interception point only on the MFR, and even more so from the Far East position.
                    Therefore, the "adversaries" all in the loitering zone "hang" from the PTB in order to increase the time spent and save fuel for the MFR. soldier
                    In short, we are doing LIKBEZ for you wassat

                    And when the command comes for them .. "front" then PTBs are dropped and .. forward "for orders" soldier
            2. Sergey Goncharov
              Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 58
              0
              In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply not existed. As, however, not exists now (except for the extremely limited potential of the Air Guard to intercept the Kyrgyz Republic). US air defense was dismantled in the early 1970s - for reasons of prosaic economy.
              1. Random
                Random 13 October 2018 11: 12
                +2
                Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply did not exist.

                The main threat to the SA (Tu-160 and Tu-95MS) is the air defense aircraft AUS (it consists of 2-3 aircraft carriers that "carry" purely "pvsh" wings.
                These ADRs are being promoted to "missile-hazardous areas" in the oceans soldier
                1. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 02
                  0
                  Into the polar ice of the Arctic Ocean, for example ... laughing laughing
                  1. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 12: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                    In the polar ice of the Arctic Ocean, for example.

                    What .. Alaska belay no, I don’t know ..... aircraft refueling ... no, I don’t know wassat
                    1. Sergey Goncharov
                      Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 29
                      0
                      USAF tankers fuel US Navy carrier-based fighter aircraft ?? This is something completely, completely new !! wink bully
                      1. Random
                        Random 13 October 2018 12: 48
                        +4
                        Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                        USAF tankers fuel US Navy carrier-based fighter aircraft ?? This is something completely, completely new !!

                        This is in your country 404 now ... all such wassat fool
                      2. Sergey Goncharov
                        Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 50
                        0
                        "Tee divi !!" I didn't know, I didn't know ... I confess. hi
                      3. Random
                        Random 13 October 2018 12: 52
                        +3
                        Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                        "Tee divi !!" I didn't know, I didn't know ... I confess.

                        There are many more "photo facts", but Lockheed Martin Corporation keeps its "archives" ... only for the web recourse
              2. Random
                Random 13 October 2018 11: 23
                +3
                Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                In 1988, the air defense of the continental United States simply did not exist

                And before 1980 -? wink
                Or don't you know that in all countries "eccentrics" with the letter "M" come to power from time to time wassat
                Or have you forgotten what the "maize" did with ALL aviation in 1961, and the current "tagged" and .. "lover of little white and red"? am
                Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                As, however, does not exist now

                Absolutely ... NOT TRUE soldier
                The events of September 11 ... very much "sobered" the command of the US Army (well, like us ... the events of our 080808), so now thirty air bases "participate" in combat duty of fighters (against seven before September 11).
                Eight squadrons, which include 130 interceptors and 8 AWACS aircraft.
                The airspace over the US capital is guarded by the 113th National Guard Air Force Aviation wing, which is deployed at an air base in Maryland.
                At the beginning of 2006, 27 squadrons joined the combat duty, armed with 5-generation F-22 “Reptor” aircraft.
                1. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 06
                  0
                  Do you know the length of the US coastline ?? No?? So I remind you - 19924 km. What are 130 (oh, yo-mine !!) interceptors, nafik ??
                  1. Random
                    Random 13 October 2018 12: 20
                    +3
                    Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                    Do you know the length of the US coastline ?? No??

                    laughing wassat lol Do you know about a country like Russia? No? So I remind you -62 kilometers - This is the total length of the land and sea borders of Russia. She shares so - maritime border stretching for 37 kilometers, much longer land, equal to 24 625,3 km.
                    Of the total length of the sea borders, most namely, 19 km are in the Arctic sector, that is, on the northern border of Russia.
                    And how many interceptors do we have? bully And nothing ... grab and don't bathe soldier
                    1. Sergey Goncharov
                      Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 26
                      0
                      There is a "small" problem - you have interceptors not just enough. Even the resources of the RTV to create a continuous radar field in the border air defense zone - and even that not enough. But yes - you "do not worry" about this lol - Thanksgiving propaganda. "Thirst is nothing. Image is everything !!" (c) (paraphrase) bully
                      1. Random
                        Random 13 October 2018 12: 34
                        +2
                        Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                        There is a "small" problem - you just do not have enough interceptors.

                        Do not juggle or try to drag me into "politics" wassat
                        And in general, you have chosen as your opponents "an enemy that is extremely inconvenient for you ..." soldier
                        As a former military man, I very clearly answer all your "attempts" to compare .. "soft with ... warm" soldier
                        And you, as a true "patriot" of your 404 country, are trying to "spin like .." in a frying pan.
                        Why don't you write to your "curators" that ..."There is a" small "problem - you just do not have enough interceptors" wassat
                        Stsikontno ???? lol
                        About "propaganda" this is just not for me ... "You" exist only thanks to the "softness of the GDP" .... it would have been my will still in 2014 would have driven "you all ... in a galley with" Daddy "in the West Boog and there and .... "left" forever soldier
          4. Waldemar
            Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 30
            +1
            Can’t his fighters catch up, is such a useless supersonic?
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 13 October 2018 02: 35
              -2
              why can't it?
        2. Random
          Random 12 October 2018 14: 51
          +2
          Quote: EvilLion
          Tu-160

          And in a few years, how many will be in the ranks of the Tu-160 and these ... "paupers"? wink
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 October 2018 16: 19
            -1
            Considering that China doesn’t particularly fly into airplanes, I don’t expect any appearance of these undershots at all, there is a Tu-160 and they are going to build it anyway.
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 12 October 2018 12: 57
      0
      Quote: rudolff
      What versions of copying will move here now?

      And the Chinese do not hide it. More precisely, they do not confirm or deny. Thanks to the "borrowings" of the PRC over the years, they were able to create high-tech production, which they would have spent decades, and not the fact that they would have been able to.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 12 October 2018 13: 07
        +8
        The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
        That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.
        1. yehat
          yehat 12 October 2018 13: 35
          0
          and they’re honored to deceive, beat and mock non-Chinese in every possible way
        2. Chertt
          Chertt 12 October 2018 13: 38
          -1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."

          You won't copy all the time, you have to invent it yourself. And the "invention" has disappeared wink
        3. Maz
          Maz 12 October 2018 13: 43
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
          That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.

          Less words are more deeds, also from the Chinese, and they are still right that their culture is more than Jewish. They know how to respect and be friends, and not to partner, like some.
        4. Waldemar
          Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 31
          -1
          This is all of China.
        5. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 15
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Chinese have a saying: "If you managed to copy a Master, then you yourself are a Master."
          That is, to make a copy of something good is an honor.

          I agree with the Chinese. I see nothing wrong with this. Remember that all the first Soviet developments in military equipment are copies of British, French and German equipment ... request And if you delve deeper into history further, then Peter I studied shipbuilding in England and Holland ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. dSK
          dSK 12 October 2018 15: 39
          +2
          Quote: rudolff
          If I’m not mistaken, they have held the first place in the number of patents for new inventions for several years in a row.

          Decades stable GDP growth of at least 5-6 %% per year will allow to catch up and overtake the States (2-3 %%) ...
          1. dauria
            dauria 12 October 2018 23: 02
            0
            will catch up and overtake the States


            So on GDP at parity already surpassed. It’s not their fault that the Chinese hairdresser, or the driver, or the lawyer receives much less than the American. Count honestly, not in dollars, but in hairstyles, ton-kilometers, liters (or rather, all manufactured goods and services in US prices) —that will be the same GDP at PPP.
          2. Waldemar
            Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 33
            -3
            China's economy no longer grows like this for three years
            1. Misha Honest
              Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 11
              +2
              Quote: Valdemar
              China's economy no longer grows like this for three years

              And our experts say that China's economy is growing at 6,6%. Whereas we have only 1,7% ... belay fellow Toucher.
              1. dSK
                dSK 13 October 2018 02: 34
                +1
                Quote: Misha Honest
                economic growth in China - 6,6%.

                History of GDP of the People's Republic of China:
                From 1979 to 2010 (30 years), China's average annual GDP growth was 9,91%, peaked at 15,2% in 1984, a record low of 3,8% in 1990. / Wikipedia /
                yes, they themselves say that 6,6% is "stagnation" for them ...
                Quote: Valdemar
                The Chinese economy has not grown like this for three years.
                1. Misha Honest
                  Misha Honest 13 October 2018 15: 57
                  0
                  Quote: dsk
                  yes, they themselves say that 6,6% is "stagnation" for them ...

                  And we, before this "stagnation" as the moon on foot ...
        2. Waldemar
          Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 32
          -2
          White guest workers give them patents
          1. dSK
            dSK 13 October 2018 02: 37
            0
            Quote: Valdemar
            white migrant workers
            unfortunately all the "swarthy" ones come to us ...
          2. Misha Honest
            Misha Honest 14 October 2018 18: 20
            0
            I hear from Pindo-sa. )
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Kurare
      Kurare 12 October 2018 13: 02
      0
      Quote: rudolff
      Well done Chinese.

      They allocate money unnecessarily for these needs, and so they can afford it.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 12 October 2018 14: 20
          +1
          Quote: rudolff
          First do, and then show?

          And what do you suggest, not to do, but to show mock-ups of paper mache?
          Quote: rudolff
          No money will be cured by idle talk.

          It’s hard to say whether they will get a good plane. But they have this opportunity and they do.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 12 October 2018 14: 42
              +1
              Quote: rudolff
              First you need to do it, and then cheeks already inflated.

              So the Chinese are doing, while greatly blowing their cheeks. laughing

              Do not forget one more very important thing: over the past 25-30 years, the West has built a colossal production base in China, in fact, made the "workshop of the world". Over the same years in Russia, on the contrary, the degradation of production continued. The fact that there is still a lot we can do is just a miracle!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Kurare
                  Kurare 12 October 2018 15: 29
                  -1
                  Quote: rudolff
                  And why not?

                  But because Russia has a lot of "good" things: gas, oil and other minerals. This is how the oligarchs "multiplied".

                  In addition, the legacy of the USSR squeezed like a lemon. And creating something new is always more difficult.
                  1. sabotage
                    sabotage 12 October 2018 19: 30
                    -1
                    Quote: Kurare
                    But because Russia has a lot of "good" things: gas, oil and other minerals. This is how the oligarchs "multiplied".

                    China does not have much less.
                    1. Kurare
                      Kurare 12 October 2018 20: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: sabotage
                      China does not have much less.

                      Just this "good" is much less, otherwise they would not buy gas in Russia, for example.
                    2. Misha Honest
                      Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 24
                      -1
                      China has no oil and gas from words in general ... Learn history and geography. lol
                      1. Sergey Goncharov
                        Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 03: 07
                        0
                        Actually - Continental China has quite decent oil reserves in the South China Sea. They just think in Beijing while their development is inappropriate. hi
                      2. Henderson
                        Henderson 13 October 2018 03: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Misha Honest
                        Learn history and geography.

                        You start with yourself. You look and grow to the level of the Chinese.
                      3. sabotage
                        sabotage 13 October 2018 10: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Misha Honest
                        0
                        China has no oil and gas from words in general ... Learn history and geography.

                        They consume more than Russia can get.
                2. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 02: 10
                  -1
                  What was stopping us? Our salary in the 90s was not higher than the Chinese

                  Are you ready to refuse old-age pensions to the rural population (except for employees) ?? But in the "flourishing" mainland China, this is still the case ... negative
              2. Random
                Random 12 October 2018 14: 54
                +1
                Quote: Kurare
                Over the same years, in Russia, on the contrary, the degradation of production continued.

                And what is this ... "merit", "statement of fact" or ... "inflating shek" ... from our side? wink
                1. Kurare
                  Kurare 12 October 2018 15: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: Random
                  And what is this ... "merit", "statement of fact" or ... "inflating shek" ... from our side?

                  Such is reality, the history of a great country. There is no sense in returning what was lost, letting out bubbles from the nose. Either work, or lose what is left.
                  1. Random
                    Random 12 October 2018 15: 38
                    +2
                    Quote: Kurare
                    There is no sense in returning what was lost, letting out bubbles from the nose. Either work, or lose what is left.

                    Hard to disagree drinks
                    1. Kurare
                      Kurare 12 October 2018 15: 44
                      +2
                      Quote: Random
                      Hard to disagree

                      I'm realist. It is what it is. I would like to write something else, but then - that would not be true. drinks
              3. Waldemar
                Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 34
                -1
                Why the flag of Germany?
            2. Random
              Random 12 October 2018 14: 48
              +3
              Quote: rudolff
              That's just according to the models of papier mache we are ahead of the rest.

              And "text ... text" .. more fellow

              I read the other day about the past salons of our Navy .... it became really sad soldier
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Random
                  Random 12 October 2018 15: 02
                  0
                  Quote: rudolff
                  Man, the Navy has been sad for a long time ...

                  Well, about the situation with "you" (with Boa and another group of comrades drinks ) I still remember it .... in "antiquity" wink but that’s all about it ..... it was news to me recourse
      2. Random
        Random 12 October 2018 13: 46
        +2
        Quote: Kurare
        They allocate money for these needs

        Maybe "they steal less"? and fewer "friends and associates" ... to the bins of the motherland (M. Zadornov) wink
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 12 October 2018 14: 24
          +1
          Quote: Random
          Maybe "they steal less"?

          Maybe less. Or maybe, like the Americans, there’s enough money for both wink
          1. Random
            Random 12 October 2018 14: 32
            +2
            Quote: Kurare
            enough money for both

            Now on YouTube, the new film "How the kings of state corporations live" wassat look and .. all questions about the availability of money ... will disappear immediately wassat
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 12 October 2018 14: 47
              +1
              Thanks, be sure to watch!
      3. Henderson
        Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 35
        +1
        Quote: Kurare
        They allocate money unnecessarily for these needs, and so they can afford it.

        In Russia, they also emit unmeasured. Maybe it's not so much about money?
        1. Antokha
          Antokha 12 October 2018 15: 20
          +1
          I do not agree. Maybe from the very top, the amounts begin to go large, but the developers get a little, even if the leadership does not steal.
          1. Henderson
            Henderson 12 October 2018 16: 26
            -1
            and it turns out that the point is not how much money is allocated
    3. keeper03
      keeper03 12 October 2018 13: 51
      +1
      Yeah, you can envy their perseverance! recourse And what about "our" MS-21 ?! Is the case moving or the curators do not give? angry soldier
      1. Kurare
        Kurare 12 October 2018 14: 21
        +1
        Quote: keeper03
        And what about "our" MC-21 ?!

        Yes, now the details for the first commercial copy are being prepared:
        https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112922/
  4. Junior Private
    Junior Private 12 October 2018 13: 00
    0
    Interestingly, what will happen to the engine resource?
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 12 October 2018 13: 46
      0
      Quote: Junior Private
      Interestingly, what will happen to the engine resource?

      The resource excites the poor. The rich are interested in opportunities, albeit at an expensive price.
  5. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 12 October 2018 13: 03
    0
    with such air intakes even radars of the Paleozoic era will be seen for many hundreds of kilometers. fool
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 36
      +2
      Hehe. Evaluating the EPR by left renders that have nothing to do with reality, this is in the spirit of analysts with VO.
      1. Misha Honest
        Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 37
        +2
        Quote: Henderson
        Hehe. Evaluating the EPR by left renders that have nothing to do with reality, this is in the spirit of analysts with VO.

        I agree. Sushka has almost a black hole there and nothing.
        1. Henderson
          Henderson 13 October 2018 03: 15
          -1
          Oh, external pendants !!
  6. EvilLion
    EvilLion 12 October 2018 13: 27
    0
    Well, a prototype flies, something is being measured. Extra evidence that China does not have a very clear understanding of what they really need. Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile at 95 km from a Tu-3000? In this case, the carrier is not intercepted by any air defense except the ship’s air defense at all, there are no such fighters, or SAM, to carry out the interception. But you can’t put air defense destroyers at every point in the ocean.
    1. Random
      Random 12 October 2018 13: 54
      +2
      Quote: EvilLion
      Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile for 95 km with a Tu-3000

      All our missile carriers were primarily intended for use in the "interests" of the USSR Navy soldier (only the Tu-160 "fell out" of this concept).
      Currently, with us, only Tu-22M3 can fly with RCC in YES, in the FBA Su-34 and Su-24, well, in the IA Su-30SM and Su-35 ... all soldier
      And we do not have CRP with a flight range of 3000km. soldier
      It is intercepted evenly at the launch line of 1000 km, unless it is an automatic control system with a special aircraft carrier with a clean air defense wing, and then ... advanced in a threatening direction and then ... only at the transition to the deployment area soldier
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 21
        0
        I don’t give a damn about RCC, X-101 will fly from the center of the ocean to the coast.
        1. Henderson
          Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 38
          -2
          and the enemy’s ships will remain safe and sound at sea and strike
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 44
            0
            What kind? Aircraft carriers or what? You will decide what you need. A submarine, if you put a hundred "tomahawks" in it, will calmly go anywhere and no anti-ship missiles will help against it.

            Surface ships are destroyed in a mass of ways. There are, for example, ground heavy RCC.
            1. Random
              Random 12 October 2018 15: 00
              +2
              Quote: EvilLion
              You already decide what you need

              Rather, you need to decide ... what do you need?
              Axes fly the same ... God forbid, this time ..... how many X-101 carriers do you have and how many ????
              And about the "density of the volley" I generally ... will modestly keep silent crying
              Well, destroyers and URO cruisers have become at a distance of 1000 miles from our beoregs and what ... what "heavy anti-ship missiles" wink will you get them? sad
    2. Petrix
      Petrix 12 October 2018 13: 54
      +2
      Quote: EvilLion
      Why the hell do you need a stealth bomber when you can launch a missile for 95 km with a Tu-3000.

      Why then bombers at all? You can shoot missiles right from the airfield. And if the missiles are over, but need to fight?
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 26
        -1
        Exactly why? Just bring the rocket to the launch point, start it from the ground, well, everything has been invented here for a long time, however, a rocket does not need to accelerate and overcome gravity, reaching the flight altitude. And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then there even the Tu-22M3 was superfluous.
        1. Random
          Random 12 October 2018 14: 38
          +1
          Quote: EvilLion
          Just bring the rocket to the launch point

          Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier than ... carriers at airfields winkone rocket from them and ... everything crying
          Quote: EvilLion
          from an airplane, however, a rocket does not need to accelerate and overcome gravity, reaching a flight altitude

          X-101 and ... gravity? belay Confuse nothing repeat
          Quote: EvilLion
          And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then even the Tu-22M3 was redundant there.

          Not redundant but ... EXTRA soldier
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 October 2018 14: 48
            -1
            No, I don’t confuse. In order for a rocket to reach a height of kilometers in 10 and accelerate to at least 200 m / s, it is necessary to expend some energy, which an airplane spends during an air launch. Terrestrial missiles will turn out to be larger, well, or will fly not so far.

            Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier


            So who argues. With the normal development of missile weapons, we come to reduce the role of the carrier. You can theoretically even make a tactical missile that will attack tanks from 100 km, on the principle that why hang it on a carrier when you can just crash into a target and it can be a cheaper system with a helicopter or plane.
            1. Random
              Random 12 October 2018 15: 25
              0
              Quote: EvilLion
              No, I don’t confuse. In order for a rocket to reach a height of 10 kilometers and accelerate to at least 200 m / s, it is necessary to expend some energy, which an airplane spends during an air launch.

              It is you who have gone ..not .. "into that steppe" wink (or trying to ... get out of the corner into which they drove themselves)? wink
              You spoke for the Tu-160, Tu-95 and X-101 missiles ... I asked the question .... what is the gravity of the X-101 in FIG.
              For the X-22 rocket absolutely .. "on the drum" ... what is its starting altitude and speed ... everything is limited by the capabilities of the PNA, for the X-32 .... Novel. for the Dagger .... a lot of theories as it will be in practice ... while officially 800 km.
              But the Tu-22M3 and the MiG-31 still need to .. somehow reach the launch line soldier
            2. Petrix
              Petrix 13 October 2018 08: 22
              +1
              Quote: EvilLion
              You can theoretically even make a tactical missile, which will attack tanks from 100 km

              For a better understanding, you can refer to the limit values. Those. shoot from the center of Siberia and get into a soldier in a trench in Texas. Technically, this is possible. But the practical effectiveness is zero. Offhand:
              - to the pool you need to attach a couple of steps from the ICBM;
              - a soldier can take a step to the side - the target needs to be tracked - attach a space communication to the pool or shoot in one gulp, taking into account the flight time and, accordingly, the area of ​​the possible location of the target during this time;
              - Do you need to make sure you hit? To repeat if necessary.
              - the enemy can detect the starting bullet and sleep during the flight time, dine and hide behind a sandbag;
              - and if a more important target is suddenly discovered, then a re-targeting system or even self-destruction must be attached to the pool;
              - if there are many goals, you need to land all the aviation of the allies and neutral countries on the ground along the way of a volley or line.
          2. Iline
            Iline 12 October 2018 19: 44
            -1
            Quote: Random
            Hiding a ground-based missile is much easier than ... carriers at airfields

            Take a look at the globe. After all, one of the likely opponents for us is the United States. Now measure the distance, well, at least from the coast of Canada to the southern states. Well, how do you like the launch range? from well-hidden ground-based missiles?
            In the 92nd year from Anadyr to Louisiana they sawed in a straight line for 12 hours, sat down on the last drops of fuel.
            1. Sergey Goncharov
              Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 03: 16
              0
              measure the distance, well, at least from the coast of Canada to the southern states. Well, how do you like the launch range? from well-hidden ground-based missiles?

              Well, let's say that strategic missile launchers with a flight range quite comparable to the combat range of a TSB were created back in the 1950s. And the "Chelomeevskoe" design bureau almost until recent years was worn with the reincarnation of this idea - the "Meteorite" RC. Yes, and VVP in the spring showed an enticing clip of the flight of the CD with a nuclear ramjet engine.
              1. Iline
                Iline 13 October 2018 07: 09
                -1
                From the conversations, I realized that we are talking about launching aircraft missiles from the ground instead of a carrier aircraft. Therefore, he suggested measuring the distance. Maybe I'm wrong in my conclusions and it was about ICBMs, but I did not meet such an abbreviation.
                Each target has its own coordinates and for the same naval Gauges it is necessary to advance at least on a boat to begin with in the area of ​​a possible launch.
                The use of the X-101 in Syria is a simple PR, they could be launched right above Engels and they would have safely reached the targets in the designated area. Only here they are not intended for this region at all.
                1. Random
                  Random 13 October 2018 11: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Iline
                  From the conversations, I realized that we are talking about launching aircraft missiles from the ground instead of a carrier aircraft.

                  They didn’t understand correctly ... the issue of AKP and ground-based missiles was discussed (meaning Poplar, Yars) i.e. mobile soil complexes.
                  And second ... Minuteman and Polaris will fly much earlier to the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 "lined up in a ruler, than the personnel will arrive on alarm or to the place of assembly soldier
                  Photos of parking lots in Engels will not be cited, probably you have "seen enough" for your service that you probably know the number of PAK-17s at each parking lot soldier
                  1. Sergey Goncharov
                    Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 33
                    0
                    Minuteman and Polaris will fly much earlier to the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 "lined up in a ruler, than the personnel will arrive on alarm or to the place of assembly

                    Well - the United States Navy has no Polaris for a long time - but it doesn't matter. The time from the announcement of the "nuclear alert" to the start of the B-52 on duty during the Cold War was 20 minutes. Time of arrival of "Minutemen" (or our "there") - 30 minutes. Count yourself ...
                    1. Random
                      Random 13 October 2018 17: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                      before the start of the B-52 on duty during the Cold War it was 20 minutes.

                      You are confusing start and takeoff ...... start is taxiing out of the parking lot, and before that it would be necessary to start (even if in a package of 2), warm up, check the control (at least according to a short circuit) and .. then " roll to the preliminary start wink
                      Even if the takeoff interval is 30 seconds (although for the B-52 it is not less than a minute) will you calculate the time for the departure of the wing? wassat
                  2. Iline
                    Iline 13 October 2018 15: 46
                    0
                    On this occasion, I can say one thing - a nuclear war does not start overnight. The preparatory period takes a very impressive time and includes such events with the troops that it is impossible to hide it from a potential enemy. And therefore, every year a directive is issued in the unit indicating the dispersion airfields and the number of aircraft in strike groups at these airfields. On this basis, inspections of these aerodromes are regularly conducted for the availability of the necessary funds on them to ensure combat sorture and correction, if necessary, a relocation plan.
                    Well, I won’t talk about the time of the combat departure from readiness No. 1, but the missiles will not be able to fly in case of a timely arrival signal.
                    1. Random
                      Random 13 October 2018 17: 44
                      0
                      Quote: Iline
                      On this occasion, I can say one thing - a nuclear war does not start overnight

                      I agree with this ... there is a threatened period, etc. etc. soldier
                      What is relocation to YES, I've "seen enough" ... above the roof, so please don't tell me anything about the relocation itself or about getting out of the blow soldier
                      Quote: Iline
                      Well, I won’t talk about the time of the combat departure from readiness No. 1, but the missiles will not be able to fly in case of a timely arrival signal.

                      Yah???? belay And what about the territory from the territory of Europe in any way? And nothing? But from the waters of the Mediterranean ... the same way? wink wassat
        2. Henderson
          Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 43
          +2
          Quote: EvilLion
          And if, as in Syria, the FABs are strewed, then even the Tu-22M3 was redundant there.

          and if you don’t pour FABs, then the bomber is very convenient and necessary, capable of neutralizing, for example, an entire air base with one single call:

          Fabs so never learn
          1. Random
            Random 12 October 2018 15: 30
            0
            Quote: Henderson
            Fabs so never learn

            I repeat ... "never say .... never" wink
            Belarus has developed and is using the upgraded Module-A kit, designed to give high-precision high-explosive bombs high-precision weapons. The module was developed at the 558th aircraft repair plant in Baranovichi. soldier
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 12 October 2018 16: 31
              -1
              So this is no longer a pure FAB, it is a belated analogue of JDAM. JDAM is also usually not called GBU-38, for example.
              And with them already as an addition, the stealth of the carrier is very useful.
            2. Sergey Goncharov
              Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 01: 09
              0
              NNZ, in Russia such "conversion kits" were created even earlier. In "Takeoff" already in September 2008 there was a good publication about these divisions - "JDAM and JSOW in Russian". hi
              1. Henderson
                Henderson 13 October 2018 03: 16
                -1
                In Russia, Zvorykin also invented television. Useless then?
                1. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 03: 27
                  0
                  This is already a question of the outcome of the test for the presence and performance of an organ called "mosk" for the "elite" ...
  7. Jerk
    Jerk 12 October 2018 14: 00
    0
    Some crap. All of them in Yugoslavia have already seen their invisibility for air defense. The supersonic bomber of the figs, so long as he draws up, the war will end. It would be more useful to them if the AWACS plane and analogues of the Bears for patrolling and Swans - for a quick strike. Although for this they have an ICBM, and even anti-ship, they say)))
  8. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 12 October 2018 14: 14
    0
    I do not know what characteristics can be laid in a stealth bomber and why, even if the S-300 detects and is capable of destroying smaller objects? Cruise missiles are another matter ... Although, it is necessary to occupy these 1 inhabitants with something ... lol
    But in general, I like the pace of development of the country, which was only snatched 40 years ago, drinking Chinese gull from Chinese thermoses. She did not deviate from the course and became a leader who stopped bowing to the United States (perhaps not without the help of the USSR and the Russian Federation). And an example - my VVK-neyka has been working for 15 years ...
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 12 October 2018 14: 48
      +2
      The only question is the detection distance. Suppose the detection radius is reduced by 2 times (actually more)
      How many additional air defense systems must be put on duty to cover the holes formed in the former continuous radar field?
      1. spirit
        spirit 12 October 2018 15: 39
        +2
        Yes, everyone knows that some fools are sitting on the hill, they don’t understand anything in the aircraft industry lol
        Well, if PAK YES does appear (subsonic and with a stealth element) then the rhetoric will immediately change, though with the amendment that we copied everything from the developments 100 years ago. Respecting and recognizing the enemy is far from every possibility hi
        1. Henderson
          Henderson 12 October 2018 16: 35
          0
          With PAK YES it will be something like with PAK FA. It is only even more extended, because money and competence are becoming less and less, and the program is much more expensive and in itself is much more complicated.
      2. dauria
        dauria 12 October 2018 23: 32
        +1
        Suppose the detection radius is reduced by 2 times (actually more)

        Reduce range by 2 times - this EPR must be reduced by 16 times. Without bothering with the coating, intakes and corners of a bomber of this shape in the region of 20 sq.m. Now you need to jump out of your pants and reduce to 1 sq. M.
        For comparison, 0,0214 sq. M. Is an EPR of a mallard duck. (How do you like the myth of F-35 with a ping-pong ball?) So, in reality, these 2 times of yours are most likely the reality. For fighters in a duel, 50 km instead of 100 is a really strong trump card. And here you need to look and think with a strategic bomber. After all, you have to pay for invisibility. Not only by price, but by range or payload.
        1. Henderson
          Henderson 13 October 2018 03: 17
          -1
          Quote: dauria
          bomber fences and corners of this shape in the region of 20 sq.m

          EPR B-52, according to Soviet estimates, is about 100sq.m. if anything. 20m this is a 5 times decrease.
          Quote: dauria
          How do you like the myth of the F-35 with a ping-pong ball?

          Yes, a normal myth. The same as 0.3 meters in the Su-57.
          OK. Let's say 2 times this is reality. I hope they studied school geometry? Can you answer the question?
          1. dauria
            dauria 14 October 2018 00: 20
            0
            EPR B-52, according to Soviet estimates, is about 100sq.m.


            Have you read it carefully? "at the bomber this form in the area of ​​20 square meters. "And not at an angular monster with eight glowing engine compressors. B-1A has 16 square meters, B -1B (modifications with composites and measures to reduce ESR) already have a couple of square meters. That's the question - is it worth spoiling the aerodynamic quality of 18 units (achieved by a bunch of tricks) in order to further reduce the RCS? This will result in a thousand kilometers of range, for example, for the Tu-160. And for reference, the range is proportional to the fourth root of the RCS.
  9. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 12 October 2018 15: 36
    0
    laughing China has already tested its stealth and used weapons in the usa the entire board number 1 usa in dust laughing
  10. Sergei75
    Sergei75 12 October 2018 15: 51
    0
    Well done, only she is really stealth or just like, and do we have effective means of defeating her?
    1. Waldemar
      Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 39
      0
      There are means of destruction and detection
      1. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 01: 12
        0
        Yes, there is, there is a means of detecting "stealth aircraft" - and since time immemorial. The first was the Czechoslovakian RTR station and the "passive location" "Vera" "originally" almost from the 1970s. hi
  11. Darter88
    Darter88 12 October 2018 18: 53
    -1
    Some kind of beautiful, brutal or something, do not you? Not?
    1. Waldemar
      Waldemar 12 October 2018 23: 40
      -4
      We do not find. They are all clumsy
      1. Misha Honest
        Misha Honest 13 October 2018 01: 40
        -1
        We find. Given that PAK YES even FIG knows how to wait. Yes, and will it be at all?
    2. Henderson
      Henderson 13 October 2018 10: 57
      -1
      For believers, here is the original photo:
      1. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 13 October 2018 12: 14
        0
        And yet - the well-deserved old Tu-16 as a carrier of the ALCM DB - is still quite "in sports uniform" !! wink
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Sergei Ivanovich
    Sergei Ivanovich 13 October 2018 13: 57
    0
    Something not perceptibly similar ...
  14. NF68
    NF68 13 October 2018 15: 45
    +1
    Here is the "backward" China.