Military Review

Top 6 Guns To Carry 2018 of the Year

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More recently, on the fairly well-known American Internet resource Guns To Carry, an article appeared with the title "The best 2018 pistols of the millimeter 9 caliber". The title of the collection evokes at least interest, but, given the sad experience of reading similar materials, the first question that pops up in my head is whether the collection is real or just an advertisement. Fears are confirmed by the fact that most of the pistols are far from new. But let's not rush to conclusions, but try to get acquainted with those models weapons, which were chosen the best for the past year.


The list consists of 6 pistols: Smith & Wesson M & P9 2.0, Springfield Armory XD (M), Glock 19, Heckler & Koch VP9, ​​Sig Sauer P320, Ruger SR9c. It can be noted that the presence of Glock in such ratings, tops and lists is already becoming a kind of tradition, although to be objective, in terms of the totality of parameters and the price / quality ratio, other more advanced pistols have long appeared. Let's try to get to know at least superficially what was chosen as the best weapon of 2018

Pistol Smith & Wesson M & P9 2.0

Two letters in the name of the pistol - M and P stand for Military and Police, that is, the pistol was designed as a service weapon. Despite this, the combination of characteristics and well-thought-out ergonomics made the line of these pistols quite popular in the USA as a weapon for self-defense. For the first time these pistols with the designation M & P appeared in 2005. The designers of Smith & Wesson set themselves the task of creating a lightweight, compact, but at the same time convenient for carrying and using a pistol, and if we pay attention to the number of units sold pistols in different modifications and calibers, the designers coped with the task.

Top 6 Guns To Carry 2018 of the Year


More recently, in 2016, the line of pistols has been updated, as indicated by the prefix in the name of the 2.0 weapon. In addition to cosmetic changes, the weapon received a new reinforced frame, the anti-corrosion coating on the cover-gate has changed. The gun received an 4 interchangeable lining on the handle, instead of three in the previous version of the weapon, which made it possible to more precisely adjust the weapon to the size of the hand of an arrow. In addition to this change touched the trigger and sights.

At the moment, this weapon is recommended as a personal by the US Drug Enforcement Administration, in addition, the M&P series pistols are used as service weapons in 16 countries around the world, which allows us to conclude that the weapon really deserves attention, and is not on the list for advertising purposes.

Ergonomics and external pistol M&P M2.0

Despite the fact that beauty is a subjective concept, one cannot but agree that the gun has its own particular charm. Especially striking long grooves on the casing-bolt, making the weapon similar to all known Desert Eagle, which, although it is a very specific gun, but quite recognizable and "untwisted." But it’s not by the beauty of one that bribes these weapons.



As already mentioned above, the gun has 4 interchangeable pads installed on the back side of the handle, which allows you to fit the weapon to the size of the palm of the owner. Such an opportunity would be useful when using a pistol in winter gloves. Many are not satisfied with the lack of a normal surface for grip in the front of the casing-bolt, and although nominally there is a notch, for those who are used to pushing the casing-bolt holding it just for the front part, you will have to either change habits or find another model of weapon. Saying something about the weapons control bodies would be clearly superfluous, since they are all familiar, bilateral, and in their places.

Much more questions are caused by the procedure for servicing a pistol, which should be described as good in the device of a weapon, but since it causes certain inconveniences to the owner, we will describe it here. The fact is that the disassembly begins quite familiarly, with the extraction of the store and the setting of the shutter for the bolt delay. Turns the lever locking the barrel of the weapon and then miracles begin. Using a screwdriver or, as recommended by the manufacturer, a removable overlay on the handle must be reached through the window to eject the spent cartridges and squeeze the part called the sear deactivator. And only after that you can remove the cover-bolt with the barrel. As I understand it, if you do not make this small procedure, then making efforts to remove the cover-bolt can damage the trigger mechanism of the weapon. Why does the pistol have such a feature, which clearly does not add extra points to it in the evaluation, let’s analyze the description of the device.

M&P M2.0 pistol device

The above feature of the gun is explained by the presence of one of the automatic fuses, which does not allow firing when the store is removed. Increased safety in handling weapons is certainly an absolute plus, but what to do when most people break things first and then try to find in the instructions the moment in which they did something wrong?



In addition to an automatic safety device that excludes a shot when the magazine is removed, there are two other solutions to a similar problem in the design of the weapon. There is an automatic trigger fuse, which prevents a shot if it accidentally clings to foreign objects or clothing, as well as an automatic firing pin fuse. In addition, a separate weapon option is an offshoot of the M&P M2.0 pistol line, which has a standard safety switch located on the plastic frame of the weapon.

The trigger mechanism of a pistol pistol with a dovzvodom drummer when you press the trigger. It should be borne in mind that in the rare case of misfire, re-pressing the trigger will not lead to absolutely nothing. That is, by retracting the cover-bolt, it will be necessary to remove the misfired ammunition from the weapon;

The automatic system of the pistol is built according to the scheme with a short stroke of the barrel, the interaction of the bolt and the barrel of the weapon is carried out thanks to the figured tide under the breech and the axis of the lever for fixing the barrel of the weapon. The barrel is locked when the tide enters the chamber in the window to eject spent cartridges.

Pros and cons of the M&P M2.0 pistol

As the owners of M & P M2.0 pistols note, the main advantage of this weapon is its ergonomics. Thanks to the low-set barrel and high grip on the handle, the recoil is felt more pleasant, and the pistol itself takes away less from the line of sight, which allows you to fire aiming at a higher rate. Often this pistol is compared to the Glock precisely in terms of the comfort of the recoil feeling and accuracy, but such comparisons are still not worth believing, since the owners of Glocks pull the blanket over themselves, and the owners of S&W claim that their pistol is more perfect. For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that the M&P M2.0 firing mechanism has a sharp dip during the trigger after stripping the striker, which in theory should not have a positive effect on the accuracy of firing, but we are not talking about a sniper rifle now, but about pistol.



An important advantage is the relative safety of weapons even when worn with a cartridge in the chamber, which, in turn, leads to the fact that the weapon is always ready for use, and this is a clear plus for both the service pistol and the self-defense pistol. Various pistol variants, which include not only a selection of ammunition, but also a choice of weapon dimensions, make it possible to select a compact pistol for concealed carrying within one ruler, and a full-fledged pistol for use as a service weapon.

The disadvantages can be attributed to the nuances of disassembling weapons, as well as the inability to re-commit a cap on a misfire. And although both minuses relate to the features of the design and are present in other models of modern pistols, they can not close their eyes, as they are.

Сonclusion

The presence of the M&P M2.0 pistol in the list of 6 best pistols of 2018 is fully justified, if only for the reason that this pistol was recognized both in the civilian market and in law enforcement agencies and armies of different countries, which, at least, indicates a reasonable ratio for the price and product quality.


Pistol Springfield Armory XD

The next gun on the list is Springfield Armory XD. And this gun is not a novelty on the market, but from this it never ceases to be very interesting. It is interesting first of all because, despite the American manufacturer, we have a weapon developed in Croatia, where it has the designation HS2000. As the name implies, this gun appeared in the 2000 year, and to be more precise, in the 1999 year it was adopted by the Croatian army, where it was before, let's say, not the most successful gun model, but from 2001, this weapon started to be exported. At first, the weapons company Springfield Armory took up the export and later the production of a pistol in the United States, and later, thanks to the efforts of this company, the weapon was slightly modernized to meet the wishes of specialists from the army and law enforcement agencies. In general, the emergence and spread of this weapon can be considered either a small weapon miracle, or the thoughtful work of the Croatian designer Marko Vukovic, who took into account all modern requirements for this class of weapon and was able to implement them using the latest developments and ideas from the arms world.



This gun has already proven itself in the civilian market in the United States, has gained acceptance in the army and police of many countries, but, as always, there is nothing perfect, and the design of this weapon also has its own nuances.

Appearance and ergonomics gun Springfield Armory XD



Despite the fact that the gun Springfield Armory XD give a fairly high score in terms of ergonomics, some questions all have a place to be. First of all, attention is attracted by the automatic safety key on the back side of the weapon. For many, it seems completely uncomfortable and even unnecessary, subject to the availability of the same automatic fuse on the trigger. The presence of a key on the back of the handle limited the ability to fit the weapon to a specific size of the hand arrow. Despite the fact that there are interchangeable pads, they do not overlap the upper part of the handle, which means that its thickness remains unchanged. In principle, there are no more complaints about the usability of this gun. But there are nuances in the device weapons.

The design of the gun Springfield Armory XD

Unlike most modern pistols, the Springfield Armory XD trigger mechanism, although shock, but without pre-tail, only has a single action. This implies easier and smoother descent, as well as doubts about the safety of the weapon with a cartridge in the chamber, although two automatic fuses must completely eliminate the accidental shot. Back you should pay attention to the inability to attempt re-pricking the capsule in the event of a misfire. But this is an inherent feature of the absolute majority of modern pistols, and when using high-quality ammunition that was stored in proper conditions, the problem ceases to be a problem.



The basis for the weapon again became the automation system with a short stroke of the barrel and locking tide over the chamber for the window to eject spent cartridges. There are no particular nuances in the process of servicing or using a weapon.

Pros and cons of the gun Springfield Armory XD

The main advantage of the design can be considered that it allows you to use all common types of ammunition, in addition, the line of pistols Springfield Armory XD includes weapons with a variety of dimensions, which allows you to block all the niches of short-barreled weapons. Recently, there was even a version of a pistol with an elongated barrel and thread at the muzzle, which allows the use of silent firing devices.



The drawbacks of a weapon include a single-action firing mechanism, but this is more likely a matter of developing weapon handling skills with its own characteristics than a critical drawback. It can also be noted that the automatic fuse button on the back side of the handle is like a relic of the past, but, in my opinion, there are few safety devices, and if they do not interfere with the use of weapons for their intended purpose, then they are in place.

Сonclusion

Should we consider the gun Springfield Armory XD as a worthy model for the 2018 of the year - a moot point. On the one hand, the weapon has already proven itself and proven, but given the fact that it has been a little 20 for years to mention it in such a short top is more than strange. But we should not consider this mention as an overt advertisement either, the pistol is well-known and has already found its fans.

Pistol Heckler & Koch VP9

If you look at all modern pistols, you still have the feeling that the designers have forgotten that in their work at least sometimes you need to apply a creative approach. In fact, at the given stage of development, all short-barreled weapons are of the same type and are not fundamentally different from each other. The only ones who work in full force are the designers, trying to make products of the same type a little more diverse, at least externally.



Not spared the modern trends of the weapon fashion and the German company Heckler & Koch. So, in 2014, the Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol was developed, and already in 2015 it went on sale. In order to avoid confusion with a Swiss pistol of the same name, the European version of the weapon was dubbed SFP9, and the differences were not only related to the name. In the American version of the weapon, a more weighty breech casing is installed, which allows the use of more powerful 9x19 cartridges in the pistol than the standard ones. This led to the fact that the American version of the pistol is not friendly with cheap ammunition and the cartridge case is not thrown away when fired, remaining in the chamber.



Another significant nuance in evaluating this pistol can be considered the fact that this is by no means a new development, but, in fact, a VP30 pistol, in which the trigger firing mechanism was replaced with a hammer trigger. In favor of this and the external similarity of weapons, and the interchangeability of some parts. But consider this gun in more detail.

Ergonomics and appearance of Heckler & Koch VP9

As mentioned above, the gun is, in fact, a modernization of the VP30, respectively, and they look the same. As for ergonomics, the weapon receives only positive ratings. To adapt to the size of the palm arrow on the back of the handle can be replaced lining. There is a large notch on the side surfaces of the casing-shutter, which adds reliability in the grip, even if the gunner’s hands and arms are dirty with dirt. In addition to the large notches, there are two side stops additionally at the back of the casing, which, in turn, has a positive effect on the reliability of the grip when hands are protected with thick gloves.



Separately, it should be noted the possibility of replacing sights, and on sights from the manufacturer, which guarantees that they fit. Recently, the company has even launched the production of collimator sights for a pistol. The rest of the weapon is quite normal - the standard controls, the indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber and the indicator of the cocked drummer. Which brings us to the description of the device gun.

Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol device

As is clear from the presence of the cocking indicator of the striker, the trigger mechanism of the pistol is without pre-cocking, namely single action. In this regard, the designers of the German company did not follow the lead of the weapon fashion. On the one hand, such a decision is not so critical, and this feature of the weapon should simply be taken into account. On the other hand, a simpler trigger mechanism was supposed to reduce the cost of the weapon, but against the background of other modern pistols, Heckler & Koch VP9 cannot boast of a low price. In some cases, the cost of a German pistol is one and a half to two times higher than its analogs, with the same characteristics and resource, which does not add to its popularity.



As it is not difficult to guess, the automatic pistol is built all along the same pattern with a short barrel stroke. Locking is carried out at the entry of the tide above the chamber in the window for ejection of spent cartridges. Movement of the breech breech is due to the interaction of figure cutout in the tide under the chuck and pin of the locking barrel.

Another feature of the gun is a polygonal rifled barrel.

Pros and cons of the Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol

The main advantage of the weapon is the availability of additional accessories for it from the manufacturer, as well as the interchangeability of individual parts with previous models of pistols. It would not be superfluous to mention the consistently high quality of the weapon.
The main drawback, all other things being equal, is the cost of a pistol. Such a feature as a single-action firing mechanism is also often referred to as a weapon flaw, but this is still a feature, not a flaw.

Сonclusion

Summing up the above, we can conclude that the Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol is definitely an interesting weapon model that deserves attention. However, it does not stand out among others for its characteristics, but it costs much more. Plus, with cheap, weak cartridges, the weapon does not insert itself quite correctly, which does not add love from the consumer to the pistol. In other words, this pistol is hardly the best one in existence in 2018. Perhaps he is the best among the latest developments of the company, but by no means on the scale of the entire arms market as a whole.

Pistol Sig Sauer P320

Of course, the top best pistols 2018 of the year could not do without a winner in the competition for new weapons for the US Army. Obviously, if the gun was recognized as good enough to adopt, then it simply must be present in such a list. However, it should be borne in mind that weapons are far from always chosen by their characteristics, the price-quality ratio plays a much more significant role, as well as additional services for maintenance, repair and provision of spare ones. All this to some extent concerns the Sig Sauer P320 pistol, but this weapon shows more than good results, both in terms of reliability and accuracy of firing. The gun was quite simple to maintain and easy to use, which ensured him a victory not only in the competition for a new gun for the US Army, but also an enviable success in the civilian market.



Speaking of competition for a new gun. Maybe someone else did not notice, but the list of weapons in the Top-6 from Guns To Carry is very much like the list of participants in this very competition for a gun for the US Army. So "ay-ay-ay", it turns out that someone faked.

Ergonomics appearance of the gun Sig Sauer P320

No one has any particular complaints about the ergonomics of the pistol, and although the weapon seems to be too angular, and the desire to finish the trigger is irresistible, this gun lies in the hand as it should be. At least in a medium sized hand. People with large palms will have to be content with what they have, or else put rubber pads on the handle to increase its volume, as the design of the weapon does not provide for even rear removable liners. The weapon controls are minimal, consist of a slide-delay button duplicated on both sides, a lever for disassembling the weapon, and a trigger. Separately, it should be noted that the military version is equipped with a fuse switch, which is located on the frame of the weapon and also duplicated on both sides of the gun.



Thanks to the adoption of this gun by the US Army, a mass of additional devices have already been developed for it, starting from the banal small-sized flashlights with the mount under the barrel of a weapon, ending with a collimator sight mounted on the housing-bolt. The device for silent shooting, as well as a version of the pistol with an elongated barrel and thread at the muzzle incision is also present.

Gun Sig Sauer P320 device

The key point on which the emphasis was put on the designers of the company was modularity. But in fact, this modularity was very curtailed. So in a full-sized pistol and its compact version, the plastic frames are the same, the subcompact weapon version has already received a frame. Speaking frankly, we don’t have to talk about any modularity in this case, the use of the same framework in different weapon variants has long been an economically justified phenomenon and far from always speaks of it as something outstanding.

The basis for the gun Sig Sauer P320 has become all the same automation system with a short barrel stroke. The barrel is locked when the tide is above the chamber in the window for ejection of spent cartridges. Movement in the vertical plane of the breech breech is provided by the interaction of figure cutout in the tide under the chamber and the axis of the lever, locking the barrel of the weapon.



The trigger mechanism of a pistol pistol with a preliminary half-armature of a drummer and his dozvvodom, when you press the trigger. Back there is a feature of the inability to re-pin the cap in the event of a misfire.

As it is not difficult to guess, the weapon is designed on the basis of constant readiness for use, that is, it means the possibility of carrying a pistol with a cartridge in the chamber. To ensure the safety of handling weapons in the design of the gun, several automatic fuses are introduced. So the drummer is protected from accidental disruption, the gun can not shoot without a magazine in the handle, in addition to this, there is also an automatic trigger guard, but there are versions of the weapon and without it.

Pros and cons of the gun Sig Sauer P320

To be objective, in terms of safety, this gun is inferior even to the first three weapon models considered in this article. On the other hand, the Sig Sauer P320 pistol attracts with its low price, with fairly good combat performance and high reliability, which is an undeniable advantage for weapons.



The negative qualities of the pistol themselves suggest themselves, based on the foregoing. A weapon variant without a fuse switch is clearly not safe enough if the cartridge is already in the chamber. Well, since the gun is positioned as a weapon constantly ready for use, wearing with a cartridge in the chamber is meant as normal.

Сonclusion

To be objective, and to close our eyes to the fact that the Sig Sauer P320 pistol was adopted by the US Army, then you can call it the best only with a very big stretch. Yes, the weapon is really good, but it requires special attention, more thorough than other modern pistols, which becomes obvious that even when compared with the samples described above. Yes, some nuances disappear in some versions of the gun, but in others they are present. In particular, the presence of a fuse switch on the military version can already be regarded as some recognition that the safety of automatic fuses is insufficient.

Is the addition of this gun to the top of the best advertising move? Obviously not, since the best advertising as the adoption of weapons for armament is difficult to come up with and that is what provided the mention of the Sig Sauer P320 in this and similar articles.

Ruger SR9c Pistol

The Ruger SR9c pistol is distinguished by the fact that this weapon is presented in its compact version, and although there is a full-size version of this pistol, it has not found such high popularity as this small and convenient kid for hidden wearing. In this case, you can immediately run ahead to say that if you focus on consumer demand as an indicator of the popularity of weapons, then this gun rightly takes its place in this list. Compact enough and not having speakers far beyond the weapons of controls, this gun was ideal for concealed carrying, but this was reflected in the individual nuances of its operation.

Ergonomics Ruger SR9c pistol

Despite the fact that the gun was very convenient for permanent concealed carrying while it has sufficient dimensions for easy holding. However, not all with the ergonomics of this weapon is smooth. The fact is that, for the sake of comfortable wearing, the size of the weapon control elements had to be significantly reduced, and accordingly their switching became less convenient than we would like. So in particular, the fuse switch has a very small size and although its shape tries to compensate for this flaw as much as possible, its location is such that it is very problematic to turn it off with one hand, unless it is done beforehand, before the gun is held in the hand of an arrow.



Despite the compact size, the shutter lag button is very convenient, but you can not talk about the trigger and the store eject button.

The sights are quite large, which makes aiming easier, but what is more surprising is the availability of the possibility of making amendments entirely, vertically with the help of a screw, and horizontally by shifting relative to the housing-bolt.

In general, most people do not experience discomfort when operating this gun. However, the lack of the ability to adapt a weapon under the large arm of the shooter is an undeniable minus. In addition, consumers often point out the small size of the safety clip, which makes it difficult to use a weapon in thick gloves, as a disadvantage. However, in thick gloves the pistol and the safety catch will be difficult to remove, so, sadly, but it should be noted that the Ruger SR9c is not a gun for cold climates.

Ruger SR9c pistol device

As it is not difficult to guess, the basis of the weapon was the same automation system with a short barrel stroke and locking the barrel bore by entering the tide above the chamber in the window for ejection of spent cartridges. Shock trigger udnikovy, with dovzvodom when you press the trigger. It is noteworthy that there is an indicator of the position of the drummer.

The safety of the weapon is ensured not only by the switch of the fuse, but also by the automatic fuse, one of which can be clearly observed on the trigger. In addition, the gun will not be able to make a shot without a magazine inserted into the handle. Well, by itself, there is an automatic safety lock of the firing pin, which blocks this very firing pin until the trigger is fully squeezed. In other words, the weapon remains safe even with the fuse and cartridge in the chamber turned off, as it is difficult to imagine a situation when it all fails together.

Pros and cons of the gun Ruger SR9c


The undeniable advantage of the gun Ruger SR9c are its dimensions and flat shape without protruding elements. Also important is the safety of the weapon, provided by the presence of automatic fuses, which partially compensate for not the most convenient manual fuse switch. Not soviem usual for compact models of weapons sights, too, a clear plus a pistol.



Perhaps the most significant drawbacks can be attributed perhaps to the procedure for disassembling weapons, in which the pin holding the barrel will have to be completely removed. In my humble opinion, the fewer individual parts when fully disassembled, the better.

Сonclusion

This gun deservedly takes place in this list as one of the compact and at the same time convenient and safe. In this case, you can safely believe the opinion of consumers of the US civilian market, who have already managed to study this weapon and test it in a variety of conditions.

Summarizing everything written above, you can see that the list of the best 2018 pistols of the year for some reason does not consist of the pistols presented in 2018 of the year. This can be explained by the fact that the novelties have not passed even the minimum test of time and it is too early to draw any definite conclusions. However, the presence of pistols with more than ten years history also looks very strange. Although this weapon was subjected to modifications, all changes were more likely cosmetic in nature and could in no way affect the combat characteristics of the pistols. Even despite the fact that a certain stagnation can be observed in the development of firearms at the moment, it’s hard to believe that during the 10 years not only nothing has changed, but no solutions have been found that even increase the service life of individual components.

The attentive reader noticed that the Glock 19 pistol is on the top list, while the article does not contain a description of this weapon. This is explained very simply. All existing modifications of the Austrian gun have been repeatedly described on the resource in more than detail. In addition, most likely, thanks to a lucky coincidence, the designer managed to create such a gun that other manufacturers are still equal to, mostly, of course, due to the fact that consumers want Glock, but Glock has become boring.

One way or another, but this top, in my opinion, is somewhat incorrect. And although there are quite decent weapon models in it, there are a number of questions to some of these pistols.

Sources:
armoury-online.ru
weaponland.ru
gunstocarry.com
Author:
Photos used:
armoury-online.ru
132 comments
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  1. Turuk
    Turuk 14 October 2018 07: 21
    +3
    Beautiful. And how do dirt / dust conditions show themselves? It was necessary to include tests in the review.
    1. konstantin68
      konstantin68 14 October 2018 09: 02
      +9
      Dirt / dust is for an army pistol. There are half the police and commercial.
      Look at the appearance - the more notches, protruding and hinged parts, various slots and cavities, push-button and automatic fuses, the higher the likelihood of contamination / dust / failure. Price, again. But again, pistols are tools for a specific job. What is a disadvantage for the army is a plus for the police, for example. Therefore, the criteria are specific and different. But these are the "top" pistol manufacturers, I think the "barrels" are great.
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 16: 58
      +6
      “But he doesn’t shoot,” exclaimed Mikhalych joyfully, Glock’s bay with epoxy during military trials.


      Glock did not pass the military dusting test, to which Glock representatives said that Glock is lubricated with only 6 (six!) Drops of oil, and not completely. Then the dust does not stick to the oil. There are such cracks that everything that gets inside flies back with a shot. And the contact area of ​​the frame-shutter is minimal.

      I myself am in the swamps in the rain in beautiful white pants fool slipped and fell into a puddle with Glock 17 ... pulled out ... look - he's all in some shit. Either clay or peat. He jumped on and ran on, shooting targets. There were no plugs. Then he washed it under a stream of water - and that’s it. I cleaned and oiled at home. Six drops of oil
      1. 2329 Carpenter
        2329 Carpenter 14 October 2018 21: 42
        0
        Why did you go to the swamp in white pants, Murderer? Do you have other pants?
        laughing
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 12: 51
          +2
          In the morning the sun was shining and it was dry. The shooting match promised to go under good weather.

          And then it began ... Two hours to go home and another two hours to return to other pants was not a hand. And without pants to shoot - I would not be correctly understood.

          wassat
    3. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 14 October 2018 21: 38
      +3
      Beautiful ??? 320th? I hurt the Americans ...
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 12: 51
        +1
        Taki, yes! Something is wrong with them ...
      2. LastPS
        LastPS 17 October 2018 23: 47
        0
        Subjectivity. For example, the 320th, too, most of all the others in this review I liked purely aesthetically - it looks solid, all other things being equal.
      3. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 10 March 2019 23: 25
        0
        This 320th is still that freak.

        I understand that the Americans are accustomed to the high location of the barrel in 1911, the Beretta-92 and Sig P226, but this new Sig 320, unlike the three, percussion. That is, by making a completely new shock pistol, the barrel could be positioned much lower above the hand, which would coolly reduce the toss on this light pistol. It’s problematic to make a low barrel on trigger pistols - trigger trigger takes its place. But not on drums.

        As a result, Sig 320 lies in his hand like a brick. Well, good as a hammer.

        After Glock ... or even after plastic Walter.
        1. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 11 March 2019 17: 59
          0
          N-deeee ...
          Compare 210 with this ... cast iron, so it was like Levitan's "Birch Grove" versus "Black Square".
          Or Presley vs. Noggano.
          Or Ford "Mustang" I against (who?) Sorry, UAZ-Patriot.
          Or...
          Well, in general, etc.
          1. 2329 Carpenter
            2329 Carpenter 11 March 2019 18: 02
            0
            In general, the "Tupolev formula" seems to be universal in many directions. If not all.
            "Nice plane = nice plane."
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 11 March 2019 18: 07
              +1
              Exactly so!

              Sloppy is a sign of a lack of commitment to quality. (WITH)
    4. ruslangozin
      ruslangozin 24 October 2018 17: 58
      0
      This is certainly good and wonderful, but that’s why the well-known Glock nevertheless bypassed everyone, given its simplicity, ergonomics and wide popularity both among the civilian population and not only.
  2. san4es
    san4es 14 October 2018 09: 55
    +4
    Smith & Wesson M & P9 2.0
    The combination of characteristics and well-thought-out ergonomics made the line of these pistols quite popular in the United States as weapons for self-defense.
    The modern trends of the weapon fashion and the German company Heckler & Koch have not spared ... hi
  3. san4es
    san4es 14 October 2018 10: 15
    +4
    ... Sig Sauer P320, however, this weapon shows more than good results, both in reliability and in firing accuracy.
  4. Slug_BDMP
    Slug_BDMP 14 October 2018 11: 42
    +3
    Ergonomics appearance of the gun Sig Sauer P320
    No one has any particular complaints about the ergonomics of the pistol, and although the weapon seems to be too angular, and the desire to finish drawing the trigger is irresistible, this pistol lies as it should be in the hand ...

    Well, I do not know ... I shot a couple of times from this. I really did not like the balance. The center of gravity is heavily biased. I had a feeling that I was holding a revolver.
    1. san4es
      san4es 14 October 2018 14: 37
      +3
      Quote: Slug_BDMP
      ... The center of gravity is strongly shifted forward.

      ... Probably reduces the toss ... In the X-series (based on the P226), various modules are used to adjust "for themselves", which is valuable for sports-practical shooting hi

      https://sigsauer.de/x-series/
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 16: 47
        +4
        This is a sports pistol without self-cocking. With an average Shig price of up to 1500 euros, X-five models sharpened for sports cost 3000 euros and higher, and this is at a price of Glock 17 - 640 euros for the 4th generation, which is ready to shoot IPSC sports right in the box in the Production division.

        hi
        1. san4es
          san4es 14 October 2018 16: 55
          0
          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          This is a sports pistol without self-cocking ....

          -- Doubtful:
          The trigger mechanism of double action. When firing with a pre-cocked trigger, in single-action mode, the idle of the trigger is quite large, with a clear effort before disengaging the combat platoon from the sear. The trigger pull in single action mode is 1,5 kg., The force when firing self-cocking is 4,5 kg ...

          https://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/pistols/germany/P226X/
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 18: 38
            +1
            Did you post the picture? On the picture is a sig classic circuit with a fuse and without a decoder. It is visible.

            Sig P226 X-Five Classic.

            hi
            1. san4es
              san4es 14 October 2018 18: 48
              0
              Quote: Horse, people and soul
              You posted the same picture

              ... No, I did not post the picture. hi
              1. Horse, people and soul
                Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 19: 17
                0
                Well, the first frame on the video that you posted and which I did not watch. In this first frame, which for me is a picture, a non-self-resetting Sig of a classical circuit with a fuse and without a decoder.

                The usual P226 is self-winding and with a decker, but not the P226 Classic pistol line.

                The presence of a fuse and the absence of a decoder, friend, is determined visually. It is visible.

                hi
                1. san4es
                  san4es 14 October 2018 19: 57
                  0
                  laughing ... So what do you want from me? I don’t understand ... Well, links, a quote (above) showed:
                  https://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/pistols/germany/P226X/
                  https://sigsauer.de/x-series/
                  ... Here is Katrina yet fellow

                  ... video, finally look. hi
                  1. Horse, people and soul
                    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 20: 08
                    0
                    This, my dear man, I don’t understand what to comment on there, if on the first frame of the video there is a pistol without self-cocking and without a decoder, and you doubt it.

                    I did not buy him and his short brother in the hands of a matzal, and I did not agree to pay 2800 euros for a gun.

                    Why should I watch a video if I already know about this gun from and to, as I was going to buy it until the price stopped it from such an absurd act?

                    hi
                    Quote: san4es
                    Quote: Horse, people and soul
                    This is a sports pistol without self-cocking ....

                    -- Doubtful:
                    The trigger mechanism of double action. When firing with a pre-cocked trigger, in single-action mode, the idle of the trigger is quite large, with a clear effort before disengaging the combat platoon from the sear. The trigger pull in single action mode is 1,5 kg., The force when firing self-cocking is 4,5 kg ...

                    https://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/pistols/germany/P226X/
                    1. san4es
                      san4es 14 October 2018 20: 21
                      0
                      Quote: Horse, people and soul
                      ... if the first frame of the video

                      ... See the latest


                      1. Horse, people and soul
                        Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 20: 28
                        0
                        In the last (third) frame (picture), we see on the gun body a disassembling lever, a lack of a decker, a shutter lag and an external fuse.

                        What else would you like to see on a non-self-propelled pistol?

                        drinks

                        On a self-cocking pistol, we would see a disassembly lever, a decker, a slide delay and the absence of an external fuse.

                        And best and clearest of all this can be seen in that very first frame.

                        hi
                      2. san4es
                        san4es 14 October 2018 20: 41
                        0
                        ... got it yes ... And do not watch the video. On this, it is said (for 10 seconds) about options for both double and single action drinks

                        So ... according to that quote from the article, it was about "double action" hi
                      3. Horse, people and soul
                        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 12: 58
                        0
                        So these are not variants of one pistol, but two different models of one pistol.

                        hi

                        You will not be able to replace the non-self-cocking USM with the self-cocking and vice versa on the same frame and shutter. You must choose one or the other when buying.

                        The model with the word "Classic" in the model name is NOT self-cocking only.
                      4. san4es
                        san4es 15 October 2018 13: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Horse, people and soul
                        ... The model with the word "Classic" in the model name is NOT self-cocking only.

                        hi Thanks - I get it.
                        repeat P / S ... For misunderstanding - Sorry (I don’t know much) fellow
                      5. Horse, people and soul
                        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 13: 18
                        0
                        Nothing, it was nice to talk.

                        drinks
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 15: 19
    +3
    The Siggs have good heavy pistols only with a stainless bolt and frame. Their other pistols with alloy and plastic frames are no better than others, but, objectively, it could be worse because of the high location of the barrel above the hand for the Sigov. Throws up the barrel on these light pistols is very noticeable, relative to the same Glock, for example.

    But the compilers of such contests, Americans are accustomed to beaver tail, high trunk and automatic fuse on the back of the handle. Therefore, Springfield XM is an ice for them.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 14 October 2018 11: 45
    +3
    There is no gun, better than Glock and its 19 flagship on Earth! laughing
    In 5 days he fired 1000 rounds from him - not a single misfire. A smooth trigger, precision, lightweight, does not cut your hand, like the presented "ribbed" models when training to quickly pull back the shutter-casing - IDEAL. Shooting, in comparison with other pistols, is not felt. Understands very easily and simply.
    Shot from earlier Zig Sauer models. Another world. And the trigger is harder, it’s harder, respectively, accuracy - not really - compared to Glock 19. Another world.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 11: 50
      0
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Another world.

      And didn’t you try the woman’s version of Glock? wink
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 October 2018 14: 17
        +2
        Babskaya what is it? Can I link?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 14: 21
          -1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Babskaya what is it? Can I link?

          Yes, what is the link? Just the FBI buys a glock - 19 for men, and a glock-17 - for women.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 October 2018 14: 24
            +3
            I was 19th, and the 17th was praised by the anti-terror instructor, a two-meter high-quality player and a fighter (Thai + Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) - he didn’t look like a woman laughing
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 14: 29
              0
              Quote: Krasnodar
              anti-terror instructor

              Heh, me too ... In Germany, Hamburg cried. There, you know, 9 terrorists studied. Then they crashed into a tower.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 October 2018 14: 35
                +2
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: Krasnodar
                anti-terror instructor

                Heh, me too ... In Germany, Hamburg cried. There, you know, 9 terrorists studied. Then they crashed into a tower.

                He was an instructor in Israeli special forces, firstly, and secondly - we are talking about pistols, not politics at all. He shot (I think and shoots) the guy decently, he also teaches laughing
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 14: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  He shot (I think and shoots) the guy decently,

                  I'm happy for you! I, too, have a decent shot ...
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 October 2018 14: 47
                    +3
                    You are well done! good And which gun do you prefer?
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 14: 50
                      +2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      You are well done!

                      Among the sheep ... laughing No, I really shot better in the company than anyone, and I didn’t understand why some people were so scorching.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 October 2018 14: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        You are well done!

                        Among the sheep ... laughing No, I really shot better in the company than anyone, and I didn’t understand why some people were so scorching.

                        I decent shot from the M-16, Galil and various modifications of ultrasound, and with a pistol - medium, by Israeli standards. Moreover, shooting in the army was not easy for me either. It detects a large number of shot rounds - it evened out - on the KMB of my unit for the first three weeks there were only shooting ranges - lying with a bag, lying down, from a knee and standing from 25 to 250 meters Due to the fact that I didn’t shoot for several years, now I think I’ll be standard muff. laughing
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 October 2018 15: 04
                        +4
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Due to the fact that I did not shoot for several years, now, I think, I will be a standard muff.

                        I don’t understand. Well, really. I’ve been shooting since childhood, there was already a lot of Stalin time, and I got into a matchbox. Constantly. And as Kalash took, this is a fairy tale in general.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 October 2018 15: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Due to the fact that I did not shoot for several years, now, I think, I will be a standard muff.

                        I don’t understand. Well, really. I’ve been shooting since childhood, there was already a lot of Stalin time, and I got into a matchbox. Constantly. And as Kalash took, this is a fairy tale in general.

                        Here I am mediocrity request Remember in childhood dashes with an air rifle? I shot them very average))
                      4. beeper
                        beeper 15 October 2018 00: 06
                        +2
                        hi In pneumatic shooting galleries "on the counter", for "wide zagalu", there were usually killed rifles, often with a "shot down sight" (for shooting shooting "marksmen" were unprofitable smile , but gambling "muffs" who want to "correct the mistake" are profitable!) " request , and "under the counter" - the rifles are good, well-aimed, but "only for their own", so don't be too complex about "very average"! wink
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 16: 25
      +2
      Exactly the opposite. The Glock 19 is smaller than the Glock 17.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 03
        +1
        Quote: Horse, people and soul
        Exactly the opposite. The Glock 19 is smaller than the Glock 17.

        To tell the user about it under the nickname Mordvin 3 I was shy laughing
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 15: 24
    +3
    Glock has 5 generations and even has an X-Frankenstein with a 19th shutter on the 17th frame.

    And also Glock pistols, pistols in 7 different calibres and five sizes with magazine compatibility from large to small pistols (except 36, 43 and 42).

    There is no true gun except Glock, and Gaston is his prophet!
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 17: 08
    +3
    Since 2011, I had one "chimney" on my Glock 17, when I crawled on all fours along a low corridor and fired through the ports to the left and right. And at the last port he held the pistol too high and the port with his frame blocked the window for ejection of the cartridge case on the Glock. I got out of the corridor - I saw the pipe sticking out. I pulled the shutter and then ran to shoot targets. And this is all since 2011.

    Is the gun to blame? No. It’s my fault. You need to control yourself better.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 08
      +1
      I was taught with a protruding sleeve (gold in the window of the Jews) to pull out a store, juggle the shutter, getting rid of the "pipe" and then put the store back in. Are we talking about the same type of misfires?
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 18: 10
        +1
        About the same. I hit the sleeve with my palm, it flew out, I pulled the shutter.

        All.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 12
          +1
          Professionally! Is this a practical shooting competition?
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 18: 12
            +2
            IPSC, yes, exactly.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 14
              +1
              Cool. There will be time, I’ll try to find one in the Kuban. Just practice - I’m still far from the competition, unfortunately.
              1. Horse, people and soul
                Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 18: 19
                +1
                It's worth it!

                True, expensive ... I somehow figured out how much money I burned cartridges and shed a tear. Could already drive a new car.

                But if without much fanaticism and sporting ambitions - then the thing is fun and worthwhile and skill - really useful, if all of a sudden ...
                It is not stupid (concentrated) to shoot three rounds at 25 meters.

                drinks
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 30
                  +1
                  That is yes. By the way - I confused the chimney with "dual power". And about the expensive - we live once drinks
                  1. Horse, people and soul
                    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 19: 07
                    +1
                    Kind of like "dual power" on stores with rebuilding the exit in one row is not very possible? That is, one cartridge has not been sent to the chamber and the next cartridge is already being sent?

                    In stores with access to one row, the cartridge is always sent to the chamber the same way. In stores with an exit in two rows, the cartridge is sent either to the right, then to the left and theoretically ...

                    This is a characteristic feature of double-row stores with double-row output. Moreover, at the same time there will be such a wedge that even a store will be pulled out not at all easy.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 October 2018 19: 20
                      +1
                      Quote: Horse, people and soul
                      Kind of like "dual power" on stores with rebuilding the exit in one row is not very possible? That is, one cartridge has not been sent to the chamber and the next cartridge is already being sent?

                      In stores with access to one row, the cartridge is always sent to the chamber the same way. In stores with an exit in two rows, the cartridge is sent either to the right, then to the left and theoretically ...

                      This is a characteristic feature of double-row stores with double-row output. Moreover, at the same time there will be such a wedge that even a store will be pulled out not at all easy.

                      In Glock, I didn’t have this, in CZ I was, everything is the same - I pulled out the store, pulled the shutter, everything fell out - the store back and forth.
                    2. Horse, people and soul
                      Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 19: 51
                      +2
                      Glock shops I especially love.

                      Somehow I happened to shoot Glock 17 at minus 35C with my bare hands (I lost gloves). He loaded the shops, shot the exercise, then warmed his fingers in his pockets.

                      And on Sig R226 he couldn’t even charge his steel shops - his fingers cramped.

                      Glockowski, dressed in plastic, shops are good. And Magpulovsky pure plastic PMAG9 is even better. They weigh nothing and are disassembled by a cartridge. You press and shift the cartridge button on the sole of the store. I don’t like to disassemble Glock stores without a clamp.
            2. tracer
              tracer 21 October 2018 04: 57
              +1
              You have dashes there in my opinion. I don’t know exactly how much but I saw a couple, they say it’s not a cheap pleasure. Train with air guns. OR rifles. This helps a lot to keep shooting skills in shape. Just do it the right way, read a look. Internet to help. I advise you to start with the classic sports disciplines of rifle bullet shooting and (or) a gun. Russian rifles already have good PCPs, I don’t know about pistols, Baikal 46 can be found in my opinion.
  • bunta
    bunta 14 October 2018 18: 24
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Smooth trigger,

    Do you think so? sad
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 14 October 2018 18: 30
      -1
      Quote: bunta
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Smooth trigger,

      Do you think so? sad


      Yes sir!
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 18: 32
      +2
      Krasnodar meant descent. Glock doesn’t have a trigger, this is an impact pistol.

      Glock has five factory connectors for launching from 2 kg to revolving, EMNIP, 5-7 kg and a bunch of aftermarket parts and springs making a descent from one and a half kilograms to 800 grams. All on the same Glock without a file, just replacing the parts.
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 15 October 2018 20: 42
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    There is no gun, better than Glock and its 19 flagship on Earth!

    At least debatable, well, this is your personal opinion, Haifa. wink
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 10 March 2019 23: 39
    0
    I have a 5th generation Glock 19. Descent out of the box has become even better. Immediately a small coin can be put at the front sight and try the descent. Doesn't twitch at all. Sights have become better. Finger grooves removed, which is good. Two-way slide stop lever. I also liked the new stores, but the Magpulovskie PMag9 is better for me. Disassembled easier and easier.

    This is the 5th generation of the Glocks best. Although the barrel cover peeled off in the first thousand, but the shutter cover is good black, not dark gray. I suspect that it is harder and because of it just the trunk and peeled off. While on Glock 17 of the 4th generation after tens of thousands - like new.
  • Corn
    Corn 14 October 2018 12: 41
    +2
    Clones, both externally and by the device itself.
    Since the mid-20th century, design thought has stood still ...
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 17: 10
      +3
      https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-10/1539334818_4.jpg


      Cool photo illustrating why the Glock clones will always be in the position of catching up.

      In the review "top best pistols 2018" on the left is the M&P 2.0, and on the right ... well, of course, the Glock, but the 3rd generation of the 1995-2010 issue.

      All clear?

      And in the review, not a word about Glock of the fifth generation of the 2018 release.

      So there!
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard 15 October 2018 20: 46
      0
      Quote: Corn
      Design thought has been in place since the mid-20th century

      Plus, no one has yet passed Browning. IMHO.
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 15: 05
    +5
    Glock’s presence in such ratings, tops and lists is already becoming a kind of tradition, although if to be objective, other more advanced pistols have long appeared in terms of the combination of parameters and price / quality ratio.


    The author, apparently, is Glock hater?

    laughing

    Who can beat the Glock in the "best for the money" category if the Glock is sold to mere mortals for 600 euros for the 3rd generation, 640 euros for the 4th and 700 euros for the 5th, and to the military and police (in personal use) do they get a big discount at a price of 400 euros?

    Glock is the cheapest pistol both at the purchase price and in the future (total cost of ownership) with available spare parts (relatives and aftermarket) in any weapons shop. The store costs 20 euros, an empty frame with a choice of colors - 80-100 euros. Native Glockovsky details of the frame and shutter cost from a couple of euros to 20.

    I had 4 Glock, now there are 3 - 17, 19 and 43, and 36 sold. Since 2011, there have not been a single problem on the Glocks, with a fire of more than 4000 per year.

    I trust my life only to Glock.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 14 October 2018 15: 27
      +1
      Correctly. Practical and great gun.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 15: 30
        +3
        Glock is not a gun. Glock is a system.

        hi

        This is how to compare the system of SLR cameras Canon, Nikon, Minolta with some advanced, but soap box.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 14 October 2018 15: 31
          +1
          Again I agree))
          By the way, from the Gloks you listed, which one is better in your opinion - 17,19 or 43rd?
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 15: 35
            +3
            I have Glock 17 Gen 4 for sports and for the RCC (carbine kit with silencer).
            I wear Glock 19 Gen 5 in winter in a chest bag or in an inner-belt holster if a jacket or a light jacket is on top
            Glock 43 I wear in the summer with the form number zero pants-shirt-gun.

            All are good, each for his role. Glock 17 modified for sports. Replaced springs and connector for descent without the characteristic Glokov wall and for "soft" work. Somewhere less than one and a half kilograms.
    2. yehat
      yehat 15 October 2018 12: 45
      0
      for ordinary citizens, the cost of operation, resistance to pollution plays a small role, because the gun is bought for lying in a handbag, or in a drawer.
      The role is played by convenience, safety for a noob, ease of use and a one-time price.
      Well, maybe still, the speed of bringing into combat condition and safety during constant wear. the awesome look still plays a role. here smooth compact specimens lose outright like a zig-sauer. they are sometimes not even noticed.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 14: 35
        0
        I am very sorry, but the appearance of the gun does not play any role in self-defense, but plays the number of rounds and reliability, as well as ease of use, including the lack of external fuses.

        If you think that a pistol is pulled out and demonstrated in self-defense, then you are deeply mistaken. The pistol is removed immediately before use. Didn't decide to shoot - don't bother him at all. If the situation suddenly becomes dangerous and by law it is already possible to shoot, get out and shoot. No weapons demonstration! For this, a system for carrying weapons must be thought out so that you can reach, send and shoot in a second. At a self-defense distance of 3-5 meters, this is exactly the case. He pointed (poked the "bad guy" towards the PP) and fired. No aiming through the sights.

        In order to properly self-defense with weapons, you need to take self-defense courses with weapons and constantly train in snatching and shooting for 3-5-10 meters so as not to lose skill.

        I have seen many times how on adrenaline a person could not hit the IPSC target from two meters.

        So, training, training, and once more training and burned cartridges of 200 pieces per training.

        Otherwise, it is better not to buy a gun for self-defense at all.
        1. yehat
          yehat 15 October 2018 14: 59
          0
          it’s easier for me to do a knockout than to train with a gun)
          and you don’t have to snatch anything ... and the court for excess is unlikely to threaten
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 22: 00
            0
            Well, this is if the opponent is alone and not armed.

            hi

            Youth passes. Young paddy can be faster.

            So the knockout is 50/50.

            Better to use brains, not fists and not bring the matter to a fight. Well, if there is a danger to life and health, then a license for a weapon (in Estonia "C" is not self-defense) for that and a license.
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 16: 36
    +2
    https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-10/1539334818_4.jpg


    Cool photo illustrating why the Glock clones will always be in the position of catching up.

    In the review "top best pistols 2018" on the left is the M&P 2.0, and on the right ... well, of course, the Glock, but the 3rd generation of the 1995-2010 issue.

    All clear?

    And in the review, not a word about Glock of the fifth generation of the 2018 release.

    So there!
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 14 October 2018 17: 42
    +2
    The minuses include nuances when disassembling weapons, as well as the inability to re-tilt the capsule during misfire.


    This article is about M&P 2.0, but applies to all today's pistols.

    The use of self-winding for today's pistols is a rather controversial thing. Historically, self-plating was useful until World War II, when the quality of the cartridges was not ice. Rigid capsule ... worn mainspring ...

    Today, with the current quality of the cartridges, it makes no sense to try to break the capsule again if the mainspring is not worn on the pistol. The gun has nothing to do with it, and if the capsule, having received the blow, did not work, then there is a big chance that it will not work, having received the same second blow to the same point.

    In short, it’s better to immediately pull the shutter and shoot with the next cartridge than try again and again break the capsule by self-cocking. So more likely to shoot and not catch a bullet in response.

    For sports, there is only one harm from self-cocking. And the difference in the effort on the descent of the first and subsequent shots. And the rigidity in the operation of self-cocking trigger systems relative to non-self-cocking ones. In sports, the dominance of 1911 and the non-self-platoon versions of the ChZ Shadow and Sigov of the classic non-self-platoon scheme is generally so. Glock also shoots sports, but mostly in the Production division (unmodified pistol out of the box).

    Glokovsky USM is "Safe Action" - the drummer is in a semi-cocked state in which a shot is impossible, but the force of the shooter's finger on the trigger is always the same and less than on a self-cocking pistol. By replacing the springs and the connector, the Glock trigger can be changed from almost revolving (NYPD) to almost perfectly sporty with low effort, no "wall" and short cut.
    1. tracer
      tracer 21 October 2018 05: 16
      0
      I was thinking of putting ipex on my MP9, since on the first version of the pistol, although a performance center, the descent was a nightmare. BUT interestno began to wrestle himself. After long puzzles, I found the reason for the descent like a fence. The hole in the plunger for the spring is rough from the drill as a fence. I polished it inside, took out all the mating parts of the trigger and examined it in detail, followed by polishing. RESULT SHOCKED. Stock descent showed 2.5 points. Spring, one or a couple, too, definitely changed. It was 5,5 pounds. Very pleased with the gun. It is accurate and sits better than 34 glock in the hand. Although 34 is a little more accurate ...
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 22 October 2018 10: 03
        0
        Quote: tracer
        I thought to put on my MP9 ipex

        Tracer, and you have been living in Canada for many years, and own weapons? Strange, and you don’t know how to spell the name of the company Apex and the name of the gun, this is a man who has been speaking English for so many years ...
        Quote: tracer
        Spring hole in plunger

        In the plunger appeared a hole for the spring? Maybe there’s a hole for the plunger, anyway? Again my friend elementary star. How time the quality of processing is very even on the level. And only the plunger with the spring changes ... Here is a video for self-education, from Apex:

        Quote: tracer
        It was 5,5 pounds

        Quote: tracer
        Stock descent showed 2.5 points.

        An ambush again ... There are two springs, 4 and 5 pounds, or 3 and 4 pounds, in the whales. And no less! Physics of elastic bodies you understand.


        Again the "tracer" flew by the tracer ... How long is it possible?
  • Fox
    Fox 14 October 2018 21: 09
    +1
    For self-defense and constant wear, I would take the Walther P5 Compact from stainless steel. And the above models for self-defense and constant wearing are somehow too big and redundant.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 13: 16
      +2
      For self-defense and constant wearing, you should choose a light, reliable and safe gunner for the shooter, so that every time you expect BANG !, there is BANG !, and not CLICK! and when you expect CLICK! there must be CLICK !, not BANG!

      Because completely from a stainless steel pistols under 9 mm with 15+ cartridges will (empty) weigh per kilogram, which is not an ice for carrying.
      I’ll tell you a secret ... Glock (barrel, bolt) is also made of stainless steel and is covered either by Tenifer or from the 5th generation of nDLC (a coating comparable in hardness to diamond)

      Glock 19 with 15 rounds weighs less than a completely iron, but empty pistol, 800 with something grams. And does not rust. How much I dragged him secretly on a sweaty body under a shirt over a hot summer - there are not even any hints of rust. Glock 43 is even less, but he has 6 rounds or with the correct heel of the store (not his own) - 7, 8, 9 and even 10.

      A pistol with 8 rounds, beautiful, stainless, unreliable, moody for cartridges and with an external fuse is not an option for everyday wear. In the safe, yes, maybe, but what's the point?

      hi
      1. Fox
        Fox 15 October 2018 20: 37
        +1
        The pistol of this model was developed by the "Carl Walther Waffenfabrik" company by order of the German police department. The main requirement was the creation of a not bulky pistol with a simple and reliable design. The well-proven P38 scheme was taken as a basis.

        The P5 retained the basic pistol design, but has a more modern design. From P38 inherited automation with a short stroke of the barrel and locking swinging larva under the barrel, as well as two return springs in the rear of the frame. The main advantage of this model is that it incorporates four different safety devices with a relatively small size. The drummer is held out of contact with the trigger until the trigger is released by pressing the trigger. Until the shot is fired, the firing pin is held opposite the notch on the surface of the trigger, and if the trigger is accidentally pulled, it will not strike at the head of the firing pin. The trigger acts on the hammer only when the trigger is fully pressed.

        In all other cases, including the fall of the gun, sharp blows to it and the accidental release of the trigger with his careless manual cocking, the gun is completely safe. There is no ordinary manual fuse, the gun is designed to be worn with a cartridge in the chamber and a trigger pulled. In addition, none of the working parts of the gun can be actuated until the bolt is completely closed.

        There is no ordinary manual fuse, the pistol is designed to be worn with a cartridge in the chamber and a trigger pulled, while to start firing it is enough just to squeeze the trigger.

        In addition to the main model, the P5C (compact) model with a shortened barrel and a model with a barrel length of 135 mm were produced. This gun is produced in a small batch and mainly for sports shooting.

        Walther P5 is one of Walter’s most successful pistols and is in high demand all over the world. Used by the police in Germany, the Netherlands, Nigeria, Portugal and the United States, as well as in the armies of South America.


        That is, P5 is positioned as very reliable and safe. Where did you get other information? I do not have the opportunity to hold in my hands and compare the P5 and Glock-19. I evaluate pistols by design, characteristics and ergonomics from my experience in handling PM and TT. Indeed, Glock-19 is a bit lighter, but it has more dimensions and a lot of smooth edges. Plus plastic - as a brass knuckle, it doesn’t really have to be. As for the magazine’s capacity: for self-defense weapons if 8 rounds weren’t enough, then 18 wouldn’t be enough, but a single-row magazine is more reliable than a double-row one.
        Yes, and if it were not for the 9x19 cartridge, I would choose Walter PPK.
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 22: 13
          0
          As my foreman said, everyone wears their own eggs.

          Want P5 - please. Want to. Yes, even Borchardt. I will not argue, do what you want.

          laughing

          I have here a book of the respected Beetle lies, 1987 issue. Such interesting things are written there. A great book for 1987 about pistols until 1987.
          1. Fox
            Fox 15 October 2018 22: 19
            0
            I agree - the felt-tip pens are different in taste and color! laughing
            But Borchard wear it yourself! No.
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 16 October 2018 12: 42
              +1
              A spare store is worn not so much because a lot of rounds are needed, but because the store can fail or it can be accidentally dropped on the adrenaline. The second store must be with you.

              Borchardt and Walter PPK are equally useless in self-defense with weapons. You won’t get the first one. The second - will not stop.

              In the US, there was a case, I do not remember what city, I'm sorry, burly bruiser nigga something so offended the elderly couple that starichok and took his wife's purse gun 22-caliber big man and shot in the back (so dalat illegally). Hit exactly in the heart.

              What the lawyer was legitimately offended at and shot all 7 pieces of .45 ACP at the old man.

              Both died.

              The old man is in place. Bruiser - in the ambulance.

              Moral: The weapon of self-defense should not kill, but stop. Instantly. Gauges less than 9 mm are not capable of this, if it’s hard not to shoot in the head. On the Internet there is an X-ray, where the patient has several bullet-wattcats from a revolver in his head .38 Sp. The patient survived.

              For some reason, "self-defenders" usually think that they will shoot at an unarmed "bad guy" SMG. And if he is also armed with a pistol? If your caliber did not immediately knock him out, he will have time to make extra holes in you in a few seconds.

              Speak Walter PPK?

              Here, his descendant, Walter PPS, fell from a height of growth and the back panel flew off the handle (to adjust to a different palm). So, in Walter they thought up so that without this panel he does not shoot. Great stupidity for a self-defense pistol, like the external fuse is not Walther PPK. Do not believe James Bond Fleming. They both do not understand weapons.
              1. Fox
                Fox 17 October 2018 21: 57
                0
                PPK meant caliber 9x17. Not 9x19, of course, but not .22. PPS nifiga is not a descendant of PPK, but some kind of plastic abortion chambered for 9x19. The automation scheme is different for them: PPK has a free shutter, PPP has a short barrel stroke. And although the teaching staff is positioned as a replacement for the control panel, it’s a very bad replacement: the automation is less reliable, the cartridge is too powerful for such mass dimensions, and it doesn’t shoot even without a cover, although it turns out they have not a bug, but a feature! laughing
                1. Horse, people and soul
                  Horse, people and soul 17 October 2018 22: 35
                  0
                  The descendant of the sailing frigate is a modern destroyer. New technology in the same niche of application.

                  hi

                  The native caliber PPK 7,65x17 and in it it shoots very comfortably and accurately. In this caliber, I shot him. Hitler had a pistol in this caliber. Shl ... Hitler's personal physician advised before shooting to see through an ampoule of poison. Weak cartridge even to shoot. You can shoot - die for a long time. Not humanely. Although for the needs of the NKVD and the Ministry of State Security, they were purchased before the war in large quantities of PP along with cartridges. For specific purposes. Nagans overheated. TTs were too powerful, tired, and PP - just right. About humanity for those who were shot at the NKVD did not think.

                  They also have this plastic PPP garbage under .40S & W, and it does not fall apart in the same form factor as the PPK.

                  By the way, the plastic and lightweight Glock 42 with a Browning lock fires much more comfortably than Walter PPK or the same PM with free shutters. Steampunk time has passed.
                  1. Fox
                    Fox 17 October 2018 22: 46
                    0
                    We have one of the PM shot himself. To the temple. We managed to get to the hospital, and there he lived a couple of hours. But after a bullet in the temple, he never regained consciousness. So for a weapon of self-defense, it’s quite a suitable result: I personally do not care for the torment of the attacker.
                    As for our controversy in general, as I understand it, both of us remain of our opinion! hi
                    1. Horse, people and soul
                      Horse, people and soul 18 October 2018 14: 57
                      0
                      So for a weapon of self-defense, it’s quite a suitable result: I personally somehow don’t care about the torment of the attacker.


                      On adrenaline, many not only "in the head", but in general I cannot get into a "metric" target with two meters.

                      laughing

                      A date, stoned, stabbed, adrenaline-driven or motivated armed person may not feel the fatal wound at all and have a few seconds to fire back. There are very few chances to stop such a "bad guy" PP, for example, if he runs with a knife from five meters, and you have a pistol in a holster under your outer clothing. It is necessary to break the distance, to get it on the go, and then already ... And if not, then he will have time to stick his knife many, many times. So, the fact that the PP will then die in the hospital will not comfort you much if you die on the spot and immediately. I, in fact, about it. Firearms must stop instantly. Therefore, caliber, cartridge power, shooter speed and hitting accuracy are so important.

                      Therefore, from 9 mm and even from .40S & W and .45 ACP they are taught to make two quick shots, which dramatically increases the chance of the shooter not getting a bullet in return.

                      So, 500-600 Joules and two quick shots, preferably on site. If not, then there is a great chance of getting a bullet in return.

                      I think no one needs it. Even very stubborn and willing to experience everything from personal experience.

                      hi

                      As for our controversy in general, as I understand it, both of us remain of our opinion!


                      As you wish...
                      1. Fox
                        Fox 19 October 2018 21: 00
                        0
                        Carrying a self-defense pistol in a holster under outerwear is the height of idiocy. For self-defense, a pistol is carried in the side pocket of a jacket or in a sports bag over the shoulder with a cartridge in the chamber, removed from the safety, but with the trigger uncocked. In any incomprehensible situation, the hand goes into the pocket / bag and rests on the pistol. Thus, we get the first shot in half a second, and if straight through a pocket / bag - a tenth of a second (in this case, there is always a possibility to write off this shot as "careless handling", and the cartridge case remains with you).
                        A double shot is great, but what kind of convictions prevent you from putting the whole clip into the attacker? In this case, a double shot is charged with cold-blooded murder, and the released clip will work on the version of the "state of passion". smile
                        As for the greater slaughter of 9x19 with its 500 joules versus 9x17 with 300 - this is an indisputable fact. I didn’t check it myself in public, but for almost 100 years 9x17 was quite enough for the police, and it switched to a more powerful ammunition not because of its insufficient stopping effect, but because of the widespread use of bulletproof vests by criminals. Here we are talking about self-defense, that is, our adversary is gopot, punks and some inadequate items, and, thank God, they don’t wear bulletproof vests! laughing
  • 2329 Carpenter
    2329 Carpenter 14 October 2018 21: 36
    +3
    Mark! Thank! Cool review.
    To the author, to the text - zero questions.
    But, damn it ... There is nothing to stop the eye on. Like European cars: like the Volkswagen is one thing, Renault is another, I see the difference; but the eye glides indifferently. Well, like in the Miss Universe it’s about: everything is beautiful, everything is shiny. The faces are different - everything else is the same ...
    Sorry for the emotions, of course ...
    1. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 14 October 2018 23: 26
      +1
      I do not remember the author and the exact name of the publication. But in the 90s there was statistics that pistol shootings last from 3 to 8 seconds. At a distance of 5 - 15 m. With a b / p flow rate of 2 - 9 pcs.
      There is little time for aiming, and in general other evaluations of your weapons.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 14: 49
        0
        None of us are Wolf G. Messing. No one sees the future.

        I think no one is interested in how long an average shootout lasts there and how many rounds are used if you yourself ran out of time during the shootout.

        request

        What do I care about the general temperature in the hospital, if I have 40C and need to urgently do something?

        Usually they carry a 15-tipron 9mm pistol and a spare magazine not because you think you can shoot 30 rounds, but because the magazine can refuse or you can accidentally drop it on the adrenaline.

        Increasing the caliber during self-defense does not have the same effect as shooting accuracy. Therefore, choose a caliber with which you can actually shoot. Caliber 9mm suits everyone. Less than 9 mm does not make sense in self-defense. Anyone who likes 1911 and does not burden the weight of 1200 grams, he wears a .45 ACP. But modern high-speed 9 mm self-defense cartridges work better than slow and "thick" forty-fifths. This is clearly visible on the gelatin dough. And the expansive bullets in our area are niiizyayaya !!!

  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 October 2018 23: 49
    +4
    Good night friends! hi

    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

    I myself slipped in the swamps in the rain in beautiful white pants and fell into a puddle with Glock 17


    Quote: Krasnodar

    I decently shot from M-16, Galil and various modifications of ultrasound, and with a pistol


    In, damn it, we have people on the site! One in white pants with Glock cuts through the swamps (Ostap out), the other shot all the weapons of the Israeli army! You will be envious! No, really, guys, without any jokes, honestly. And here you sit in the village, retired, and if you really walk around the forest with something serious (hypothetically), you won't write about it. But I envy in an amicable way. I would have shot at the shooting range myself, but you will not be very uncomfortable in retirement. Good luck to all of you! drinks

    Thanks to Mark for the new information. Have not met for a long time, write more! hi

    PS I completely agree with Vasily Plotnik, all the trunks somehow came out from under one stamp. Well, except Ruger if only.
  • beeper
    beeper 15 October 2018 01: 04
    +4
    Oh, Mark Poddubny, are you with us again ?! good
    At first I recognized it by the structure of the text and one of your characteristic words - "back again", but I did not believe my eyes, I scrolled to the end and it should be, our loss was found fellow !
    So do not get lost for a long time, Mark, without your original stories it is somehow sad to read VO. Suck topics at least from your finger, but write, don’t stop, if you have already chosen the journalistic path! yes The weapons theme is rich and inexhaustible in all respects, especially historically and technically! yes
    About pistols from the "authoritative rating" - everything is trivial and not a spark of design creativity can be traced - a continuous conceptual "glokiat" (even with these "innovative" easily replaceable "zig" frames smile ) "in one proportion or another, the design of these shooting" gadgets "is also not ice, as in my opinion (against them the rationally designed, outwardly ascetic," Glock ", even with its" chopped-brick "bolt, looks like a real handsome man good !).
    Good luck to you Mark, Creative Inspiration and Health!
    hi
    1. AlexMark
      15 October 2018 16: 38
      +2
      Good afternoon) I visited the accident, my hands were fixed again, it seems my weak point laughing But all is well now, I am recovering))) Well, and back the sameI will write))) A lot of ideas appeared in time while fed with a spoon)
      1. beeper
        beeper 15 October 2018 16: 51
        +1
        hi I thought so, Comrade Mark, that you were in some kind of bad trouble, if you didn’t show yourself for a long time, and a little worried about your health. winked
        Glad to see you again in business! good Go for it! Health !!!
        Sincerely.
        1. AlexMark
          15 October 2018 17: 00
          +1
          Thank you so much hi
          1. 2329 Carpenter
            2329 Carpenter 16 October 2018 19: 33
            0
            Health Mark! Get well soon.
            Everything is ahead!
            hi
  • Engineer
    Engineer 15 October 2018 08: 56
    +2
    Two pistols with the same price, but one has a "high price" in its drawbacks, and the other has a pluses - a "low price" good
  • DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 15 October 2018 10: 27
    0
    Why not mention that the Heckler & Koch VP9, ​​like its predecessor, has the most ergonomic grip.
  • yehat
    yehat 15 October 2018 12: 38
    +1
    the list is far from complete. there are no Czech pistols at all, and they are far from bad.
    I am not special in pistols, I personally like the modernized 5-7, a very convenient and accurate machine, a spacious store, but its bullets are not for civilian use.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 13: 42
      +1
      Chezets are not reliable. Athletes Chezetchiki, and who shoots from Tanfoglio, carry a bag of spare springs.
      I myself saw how the slide delay broke during Sig P226 during the competition.

      Not one Glock in my eyes broke.

      Many love 5-7 with platonic love, until they shoot him live.

      laughing

      Caliber 9x19 is the most versatile. Many of my acquaintances have tried .40S & W and .45 ACP and returned again to the nine. I sold the Glock 36 myself. The reason? There are two of them. The nine is easier to hit. Nine cartridges cost half the price.

      Caliber 5,7x28 civilians do not need. Shooting is expensive. On self-defense - it is pointless below 9 mm.
      1. 2329 Carpenter
        2329 Carpenter 16 October 2018 19: 38
        0
        Users of the 75s can argue about the unreliability of Chezets with athletes apologists for Glock.
        It is necessary to search for their coordinates.
    2. AlexMark
      15 October 2018 16: 40
      +1
      Well, it was not me who was the top 6)))
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 22: 16
        0
        Thanks for the article!

        A good reason for all of us, weapon lovers, to meet and discuss on the pages of VO.

        hi
    3. AlexMark
      15 October 2018 18: 13
      +1
      Look in the direction of expansive, but in general, yes, 5,7 is absolutely not civilian ammunition.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 22: 17
        0
        In our area, expansive niiizayaya, even the police.
  • Petrucho
    Petrucho 15 October 2018 13: 36
    +1
    Three years already own a machine from the citizens of Heckler and Koch. SFP9 is called. I was surprised by the information about the difference with VP9 in the shutter, but maybe the last in the hands could not be held. But I can say about mine, it eats and does not choke on everything that I feed it. Mostly Magtech, Federal and Barnaul - not a single misfire, pipe, etc. I agree with those who praise the glock here, he actually stands above this fight, but he didn’t come to me personally, he wanted something more ergonomic and this is just the strong point of this heckler. And so, it’s quite an ordinary pistol - no worse, no better. By the way, globally is no different from Walter PPQ, which for some reason is not in the top, despite the fact that it is very popular in America. For daily wear, I would prefer something smaller.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 15: 05
      0
      Hello neighbor, I live a little north.

      Heckler is thick for hidden wear. And the barrel above the shooting hand is higher than that of Glock. And the stores are not in plastic, as in Glock. And supplies and accessories are more expensive than for Glock. The same Glock 19 for a shutter of 25 mm in total. But Heckler is a gun no less reliable than Glock. The descent, however, on the fact that I matzal was not an ice in comparison with Glock out of the box.

      Have you already allowed in ZoO caliber more than 9mm?

      drinks

      Walter has long been owned by Umarex, a company that produces CO2 copies of weapons, starter gas pistols, and obscene quality 440 steel knives.

      lol

      After Walter PPS fell from the height of growth and his back cover flew off from the blow (without which the gun does not shoot - such a fuse was invented on Walter), Walter’s value as a self-defense pistol fell sharply.
      1. Petrucho
        Petrucho 15 October 2018 16: 05
        0
        Salut!
        By the way, yes, for what the Americans on YouTube praise the Hackler’s descent, I didn’t notice something supernatural. At Glock, I like the descent - sports, i.e. modified - lightweight. The one out of the box - well ....
        And stores in plastic or not is more a matter of preference (I saw arguments about freezing fingers wink )
        personally, the iron is somehow closer to me, though the prices for them are horse-drawn simply.
        About the permitted calibers - it's just some kind of disgrace! I always wanted 1911 for myself, and I still want to. And not in 9 mm, but in the 45th. I had a chance to try it - it's a very nice weapon, but thanks to our laws, I can only if I become an athlete. I do not understand this limitation, i.e. .357 sig or .357 magnum I can get, which not every armor can withstand, but low-speed and, accordingly, not so dangerous .45 ACP - no. Where is the logic? It remains to envy our southern neighbors, they have any caliber in their "grocery store".
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 15 October 2018 22: 26
          0
          I am from the northern deli and we also have no restrictions.

          Yes, in Latvia - stupid people wrote ZoO. Definitely.

          But, to be honest, .45 ASR is nice, while it’s hunting, and when you shoot and count the money, you’ll return to nine. I sold my Glock 36 and I only regret that I can no longer poke my little finger in the trunk. There is nothing so good in it, except for the legend.

          About the stopping action .45 ACP in comparison with modern 9x19 is more a myth. The wound channel at .45 ACP is not more than a caliber, and the 9x19 bullet begins to turn over and ... transfers more energy.

          And still shoot twice.
          1. Petrucho
            Petrucho 16 October 2018 09: 22
            0
            And, I just did not know that in Estonia there is no this stupid restriction either.
            About the fact that 9 completely self-sufficient caliber I agree. But this is from a practical point of view, and when I wrote about the desire to have a trunk on the 1911 platform, I had more in mind - for the soul. So sometimes in a dash to fuck. Well, in general, when something is forbidden - you want more of this. It’s not enough, all of a sudden I’ll earn a lot of European rubles and want to buy a Desert Eagle in caliber .50AE? laughing But no native, - not supposed to! sad
            Recently, a new version of the law was issued to us and there was hope that these restrictions would not be in it, but it did not grow together. In fact, there is an opinion that these standards can be tightened (for example, to limit the number of rounds in a store), because We are Europe, we must observe the rules, and there recently the anti-arms lobby has raised its head lately. Well, it’s understandable, what else to expect from people through one non-traditional sexual orientation? Or they are afraid that they will shoot all refugees. laughing
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 16 October 2018 12: 18
              0
              There you are completely hypocrites completely lost fear.



              They are afraid, but not that ...

    2. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 16 October 2018 19: 39
      +1
      PM is very convenient and effective. In skillful hands.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 17 October 2018 22: 47
        0
        In the "hospital average" - no longer.

        hi

        The parameters of a typical target for PM have changed. Its effectiveness on these goals has also changed. There is no stopping power of a bullet without a description of the parameters of the target, which it is guaranteed to stop.

        The action of a bullet on a dystrophic post-war generation of men with a height of 160-170 centimeters and weighing 60-70 kilograms is one thing, but the action of a modern "wild boar" or "elk" taller than 180 centimeters and weighing 100 kilograms, and even in a bulletproof vest, is quite another.

        I'm not talking about the sworn partners with a waist of 150 centimeters and weighing 150 kilograms, which are not taken even by the shell .45 ACP and are used for "hunting" expansions.

        So, time spares no one. Veterans of Nagan, TT and PM with Stechkin place in the museum. Instead, today there are other, more effective pistols.
        1. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 18 October 2018 22: 43
          0
          I disagree. Not a pistol is effective. The user is efficient. And the speed of a bullet hitting the vital organs of both the modern "boar" and the post-war average fatness aue has changed little since then.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 October 2018 00: 54
    +1
    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
    0
    I am from the northern deli and we also have no restrictions.


    Eh ... But then a neighbor trades us in the village at night. Serving urgent - discount. drinks
    Happy you guys! hi
    1. Petrucho
      Petrucho 16 October 2018 09: 03
      +2
      Greetings!
      Well, sort of happy. But my children are about to begin to study in school in Latvian. Those. Imagine - Russian teachers teach Russian children in Latvian! Fine? am
      This is not for political disputes, but for the purpose of avoiding unnecessary illusions about our country. Yes, it seems like weapons are allowed for such fans of this business as I have more opportunities than in Russia, but we definitely should not envy here.
      Yes, I also have to say that the law on weapons in our country is not perfect and I can hardly imagine the situation for myself, for example, when I don’t sit down later, after using my gun. It is necessary to clearly understand how, when and why, and in a stressful situation you can not figure it out. This is one of the reasons why a very beautiful German typewriter lives in a safe, rather than walking with me. wink
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 16 October 2018 12: 32
        +1
        I am a fairly calm Estonian horse, it can even be considered almost phlegm, because I never climb on the rampage myself and try to avoid places where I can get on the rampage.

        Cuz i carry a gun
        anytime and anywhere
        . Better it is not useful at all than it would be useful, but it is not. In the safe from him there is absolutely no use.

        I carry a gun and German pepper gas KO. I never used a gun. But gas KO against dogs - used.

        One stop from my house a few years ago, several crazy dogs almost broke an old woman, barely recaptured her ... And this is at Maxima XXX ... A large store and a lot of people nearby.

        I will never leave the house with weapons if I recently drank a tax. If caught under a degree behind the wheel - they will take away the rights and permission for weapons. And rightly so!
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 16 October 2018 12: 20
      +1
      And you, Cat, from which city?

      hi
    3. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 16 October 2018 12: 24
      +1
      We live in a cage. However, due to the fact that there is work, there is always food in the cage and there is something to drink food with.

      But a cell is a cell, and in Russia no one is waiting for us.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 October 2018 13: 57
    +2
    Quote: Horse, people and soul
    And you, Cat, from which city?

    hi


    Good afternoon, colleague! hi

    I have lived all my life in Moscow on Tsvetnoy Boulevard. Now a donkey in a village under the glorious city of Ryazan. Of the trunks, only BM-16, though piece work with a great battle, but you can’t walk around the city with it. From entertainment, computer and quadrics. When the son arrives and brings his trunks, we leave for the fields and shoot at targets. Our local comrades usually go with us, with their trunks, of course. I don’t dream about a short trunk. So, in a nutshell, that's all. smile

    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

    But a cell is a cell, and in Russia no one is waiting for us.


    And here, too, they are somehow not really waiting for us, the pressing is going on every year more and more. Behind the Kremlin wall, life has its own life, and we have nothing to do with it. drinks
    1. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 17 October 2018 05: 21
      +2
      Korotkostvol for shooting at the shooting range, not to wear, and the most diverse - in Russia is quite affordable. The question is purely financial - since it is very expensive, both the samples themselves and their current content (the creation of a shooting club and its maintenance)
      It seems to me that it would be necessary to change the authors of articles about pistols on the site, for those who actually shoot from them. And then the articles "mix of notes from the Internet" look frivolous
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 17 October 2018 23: 03
        0
        Yes, in Russia it is an expensive pleasure.

        But the number of IPSC clubs is quite large and growing, as well as the number of active club members. In Estonia, at competitions of the 2nd and 3rd level there are constantly several shooters from Russia and Belarus.

        The specifics of the Russian arms forums is with commentators on the handbook of the respected Beetle of the 1987 issue about pistols until 1987.

        Probably, it would be fun to listen to what auto mechanics think about comments about some Toyota or Audi made after reading a Ford manual of some 1923 release. So it is here.

        # PMnashevsyo.

        It is a pity, those who really shoot do not always know how to write interesting articles.
        Commenting is a completely different matter.
      2. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 17 October 2018 23: 06
        0
        What is happening in Russia with the ZoO and what are the harmful consequences of mistakes made decades ago is a separate topic for a large article.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 October 2018 23: 34
    0
    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub

    It is a pity, those who really shoot do not always know how to write interesting articles.
    Commenting is a completely different matter.


    Hello and good night. hi

    Well, try it! And as for the ability and inability to write - we will understand. drinks
  • Usher
    Usher 10 December 2018 19: 39
    0
    Why are all these cutouts, holes, grooves on the pistols? In general, they make no sense, more to confuse punchers? Neither weight does not lighten, nor rigidity is attached, nor ergonomics. For what?
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 11 March 2019 00: 15
      0
      I also thought about it.

      And I didn’t come up with anything else but “if we can’t come up with anything new, let’s write Khokhloma”.

      And why did the bus enter the new Lada and leave fingerprints from its headlights?

      To not like others.

  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 27 February 2019 19: 48
    0
    The revolver is 160 years old. Remington 1858 New Armies.

    Recharge