Military Review

Why did Ilon Musk send the car into space?

137
The concept of the Ilona Mask sect rests on two postulates:


Postulate A. It has long been understood that the Great Inventor is not able to not only create, but even to present realistic technical means of the near future, that could provide a breakthrough in energy and transport. This circumstance forces the Mask team to engage in unusual, but not giving any real advantages projects that are given to the public as a breakthrough into the future.

From attempts at any cost to keep the booster stage to completely wild concepts in the form of trains in vacuum tubes. Truly, the sleep of the mind gives rise to monsters.



Postulate B. All the "innovations" are created by compiling existing technologies, while no one thinks about the conformity of their technical appearance to the problem being solved. The whole calculation Mask - on insignificant details that can attract the attention of the buyer.

For example, for some reason, attention is focused on the 17-inch display in the cabin of the electric car, when everyone is interested in the main question - the very possibility of creating affordable transport on electric batteries.

This is done for one reason: the Mask did not succeed in having an affordable and mass electric car. We have to mask the failures with the help of useless technical tricks that can cause the buyer a sense of "technology of the future."

High capacity compact batteries long and successfully used in the military environment, where the value has always had a secondary value. A simple example is submarines, where such “energy storage devices” are necessary in the process of launching ballistic missiles.

The technology of creating lithium-ion batteries has been thoroughly studied in theory and practice. One thing is absolutely certain: their value is still high. Manufacturers are able to create a battery of any configuration, purpose and scale. The main thing: who will pay the bills?

Just last week, the submarine Oryu was launched in Japan, having no energy sources other than lithium-ion batteries. With their help, a construction weighing three thousand tons is capable of continuously moving under water at a speed of 20 knots for many days. (36 km / h). In this sense, the super-modern electric car Ilona Mask (490 km on one charge when driving in economy mode) is not science fiction. Such technologies existed long ago and developed in accordance with the technological base of each period of time.

The most significant disadvantage of the Japanese Oryu boat is its cost (566 million dollars, of which 112 million was spent directly on the battery). But this is military equipment, where priority is given to other parameters.

From the point of view of the adherents of the sect I. Mask, the Great Manager was able to bring rare and expensive technologies from the field of military equipment to the civilian market. True, at a price markedly higher than the cost of their military counterparts.

Unremarkable in terms of design, speed, quality and trim materials the car is sold for the price of a luxury limousine. Focus, worthy of the Guinness Book of Records.

The main thing is electric movement, supporters of the Mask sect will explain to us. The high cost of the machine due to the cost of production of batteries and electrical systems.

Then what is the genius of a great manager and inventor if he could not make the technology cheap and affordable?

Mask's only achievement is that “affordable electric cars for the price of a limousine” are still sold. However, these are issues of marketing and public opinion manipulation, which, as is well known in stories, more than once led to astounding and inexplicable results.

Neither of which mass speech, of course, is not. If you look at the selected premium segment, then any well-known automaker has ten times greater sales figures.

Against the background of the exorbitant price of the battery, all other features of the Mask creations do not matter much. And in terms of technological innovation, they are cheap magic tricks that can impress only the inhabitants of the jungle. Swinging out the cover of the outlet in the taillight when the charging plug is brought to it is a trick worthy of the XIX century.

For commercial success, it is not necessary to demonstrate the illusion with the filler caps and retractable door handles. Ilon, make a cheap battery, as you promised. And everything, your market.

Nothing like this has been done.

In an effort to keep interest in the “cars of the future”, Musk moved in the right direction, in the direction of reducing their value. Thus, a “budget” model appeared on the market with the promised price of no more than 35 thousand, with the expectation that the trendy electric car will become a competitor in the lower segment of the business class.

The result was a bit predictable.

Now, after a couple of years, the cost of the simplified “budget” model still exceeds 50 thousand USD, while it lacks even a dashboard! Musk himself explains this decision by the development of technology of unmanned driving, in which the driver is practically excluded from the process of driving. Delighted with the vision of the ingenious designer, buyers notice that unmanned vehicles are, after all, the lot of the near future. And today it is desirable to have at least a speedometer in front of your eyes.

Competitors to the supercar “without everything” in this price category are very serious models with hurricane characteristics and an impressive set of high-tech equipment. Therefore it is not surprising that the “budget electric car” turned out to be another unprofitable project.

Space odyssey Ilona Mask as a whole follows the path of ground electric vehicles. What is the main practical achievement of Space X in the field of rocket and space technology today? Half a century after Korolev, the Mask team also managed to send a rocket into space. When using the same chemical rocket engines. So to say, they “opened” the road to the stars for humanity.

And then follows a well-known technique. Due to the absence of any real breakthrough technologies, the illusion begins with the goal of impressing the public and investors.

The modern level of technological development allows us to make a controlled landing of the launch vehicle stage on any chosen platform. Another question is why this is needed. The canonical answer of Mask sect adherents: multiple use of the first stage, the cost of which is 2 / 3 of the total cost of the launch vehicle, reduces the launch price.

Mask operates on a proven pattern.

“Our goal is to bring the launch cost to 5-6 million in the next few years.”


What the fantastic, obviously unrealistic promises of Mask mean in practice, is clearly seen in the example of electric vehicles.

The mask does not have the necessary technology to achieve its goals. Half measures offered by Space X specialists do not significantly affect the cost of the launch procedure, changing it tenfold. Rather, the focus with the return of the rocket and the associated costs only increase the price. The launch price of a commercial satellite (up to 5,5 tons in a geotransfer orbit) announced on the official website of Space X by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle is 62 $ million. The cost of satellite output achieved in practice (in the interests of the US Department of Defense) is even higher - from 82 to 96 million.

Mask, of course, well done. When giving its fabulous promises, does not even blush.

Sending the red car into space, as well as the return of the PH steps, is an exciting show and a remarkable technical record. But the real contribution of Mask to the development of space technology, despite the loud fame of the Progressor, is hardly comparable to the achievements of the GKNPTs to them. Khrunichev or American companies “Lockheed” and “Martin-Marietta”.

instead of an epilogue

“Eagle-1”, get ready!

... She always appeared in public, accompanied by four guards, and her company callsign was Eagle-1. Always the same black turtleneck - shameless association with S. Jobs. Diet from juices only green. Corporate solidarity and paranoid secrecy, in which ordinary employees were strictly forbidden to indicate their place of work in social networks. The cult of personality and all the attributes of a successful modern startup!

Meet Elizabeth Holmes. Rising star of Silicon Valley, the youngest American billionaire, the founder and owner of the company “Teranos”. Her revolutionary idea could revolutionize the medical diagnostics industry. The equipment of “Teranos” allowed only one drop of blood to carry out a complete diagnosis of the body.

Why did Ilon Musk send the car into space?


Eminent professors and doctors of medicine immediately expressed their doubts. Due to purely physiological reasons, one drop of blood is not enough for accurate diagnosis. However, public attention was firmly riveted on a black turtleneck Miss Holmes.

The fall of “Teranos” turned out to be even more rapid than its incredible rise. After a decade of promises, it turned out that there is no unique technology for testing blood. Siemens equipment was used for diagnostics. According to the results of the scandalous revelations, the assessment of the state of Miss Holmes was reduced from 4,5 billion to zero. The company “Teranos” officially ceased to exist in August 2018 g., Continues the investigation of mass fraud.

The Teranos board of directors was attended by such significant figures as former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and General Mattis, the current head of the Pentagon.

It is just a shame.

Such “startups”, like Elizabeth Holmes, in the USA at every turn. It is highly likely that the time will come, and the great inventor Ilon Musk will be the target of the next scandal about fraud.

All these stories are connected by a single plot: to mislead a person, it is enough to tell him what he wants to believe.

Author:
137 comments
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  1. Vard
    Vard 18 October 2018 05: 58
    +9
    In general, American crooks, due to the greater historical experience of our crooks, are plugged with one left belt ...
    1. zyzx
      zyzx 18 October 2018 06: 11
      -1
      Quote: Vard
      In general, American crooks, due to the greater historical experience of our crooks, are plugged with one left belt ...

      Well, at least Musk’s rockets take off, and we’re falling more and more. Because they steal, they conditional 10%, and spend 90% on development, and our effective managers 90% steal ...
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 18 October 2018 06: 33
        +8
        Quote: zyzx
        Well, at least Musk’s rockets take off, and we’re falling more and more.

        and takes off a lot from him. and a lot falls with us. and why then doesn’t the mask carry their astronauts to the ISS, but we? and not on mask engines they launch satellites
        1. zyzx
          zyzx 18 October 2018 07: 04
          0
          Quote: LSA57
          and takes off a lot from him. and a lot falls with us. and why then doesn’t the mask carry their astronauts to the ISS, but we? and not on mask engines they launch satellites

          Yes, I’m not about the fact that Musk is a great designer and manager, I’m about our snickering.
          1. For example
            For example 18 October 2018 07: 25
            +16
            Quote: zyzx
            I mean that our snickering.

            Have you read in social networks? laughing
            After all, by no means do you touch those you write shit about.

            Your main postulate is that everything is fine there, and here Putin is to blame for everything.
            You are ridiculous, the intercessors of all the good and the fighters with all the bad. lol
            1. figwam
              figwam 18 October 2018 10: 48
              +3
              Musk is the next pyramid, cheap launches due to the money of new sectarians.
          2. renics
            renics 18 October 2018 08: 09
            +4
            (I mean that our snickering) And what does this mean? Cut salaries for all workers and specialists, and maybe cut space funding by half. I am surprised both by you and some, for whom the main thing is to blur something in the comments, and what exactly they themselves do not know and for many - this is not clear. Well, let's develop your thought further, which exactly means yours, snickering.
        2. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 18 October 2018 07: 24
          +4
          Quote: LSA57
          and he takes off a lot

          For 2018 to the present, 16 launches, all successful.
          Quote: LSA57
          and a lot falls

          This year, out of 10, one.
          Quote: LSA57
          and why then doesn’t the mask carry their astronauts to the ISS, but we?

          Because NASA signed a contract with us after 2011, Musk was just starting.
          Quote: LSA57
          and not on mask engines they launch satellites

          Who are they? There, in different ways, both on the Maskins, and on ours, and on Rocketdine.
          1. neri73-r
            neri73-r 18 October 2018 10: 00
            0
            Don’t listen to these clowns and swindlers of the West, once you watch a great interview with Mikhail Kovalchuk at Solovyov, why do you believe charlatans, listen to real scientists and everything will be clear about Western breakthrough technologies and our backwardness! fool
            1. Semen1972
              Semen1972 18 October 2018 10: 13
              +10
              Quote: neri73-r
              Don’t listen to these clowns and swindlers of the West, once you watch a big interview with Mikhail Kovalchuk at Solovyov’s,

              laughing good
              Finally, I saw a living person who looks at Solovyov as his "experts")) Can I take a picture with you?
              1. neri73-r
                neri73-r 18 October 2018 10: 14
                +4
                Quote: Semen1972
                Finally, I saw a living person who looks at Solovyov as his "experts")) Can I take a picture with you?

                To the mirror, to the mirror! And Solovyov has nothing to do with it, listen to Kovalchuk about his interview, write something clever !!! hi In content, in content!
          2. renics
            renics 18 October 2018 10: 36
            +4
            They only forgot to write about the meaning and economic feasibility of rocket launches from the Mask into space. All of Mask's launches are for promotional purposes only, which hopes to use demonstration flights to win contracts from Nasa, the US military and private space enterprises. The result of all starts from the Mask. Falcon 9 delivered into orbit only 11 satellites, weighing more than 170 kg each. And with the launch of a rocket with the launch of an electric roadster worth $ 100.000 into space, many foreign experts question it. Due to the fact that in the presented video from the installed cameras in the gig, an unnatural play of sunlight and cast shadows.
            About (Because NASA signed a contract with us after 2011) This is nonsense. In November 2015, SpaceX signed a contract with NASA to transport American astronauts to the ISS. But for some reason these flights are still not there.
            Everything would be fine, but the rocket had to be returned back to Earth. There were difficulties with this. As conceived by engineers, all missile blocks were supposed to land on floating platforms in the Atlantic Ocean. Of the three accelerator blocks, only two returned to Earth. The central accelerator at a speed of 480 kilometers per hour fell into the water and, accordingly, crashed. Audio: “We lost the center core” #FalconHeavy @SpaceX pic.twitter.com/OaJhMa7f2U - Drew King (@ King_Drew16) February 6, 2018
            It is assumed that the reason for such a landing is that only one of the three central unit engines worked, since it ran out of fuel. As a result, the block fell 90 meters from the platform. Shards from a crashed accelerator damaged the Of Course I Still Love You platform, destroying two engines. With Tesla Roadster later, a fiasco also happened. The car will not be able to fly to the orbit of Mars, as originally intended. The engines have been running for too long, and now Tesla will fly away towards the asteroid belt. Third burn successful. Exceeded Mars orbit and kept going to the Asteroid Belt. pic.twitter.com/bKhRN73WHF - Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 7, 2018 After putting the car into orbit, he was supposed to stay there for another 5 hours. Then he was given an impulse to take off the trajectory towards Mars. The flight itself will be uncontrollable, a car can fly to Mars for many years. At one o'clock in the morning a sports car flew over Australia. Currently over Australia pic.twitter.com/HAya3E6OEJ - Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 6, 2018 And here is the live broadcast from the sports car, a recording of which Musk posted on his Twitter. It looks unbelievably bewitching, lasts more than four hours. Live view of Starman https://t.co/gvSlztlE6l
            - Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 6, 2018
            Tesla Roadster Ilona Mask in space is a real stance over time. https://where-is-tesla-roadster.space/live
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 18 October 2018 14: 23
              0
              Iridium Falcon-9 alone sent 75 pieces of 860 kg each
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_NEXT
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 18 October 2018 16: 44
                +1
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Iridium Falcon-9 alone sent 75 pieces of 860 kg each

                the fact of the matter is that iridiums alone wink by the way, they and loads on the ISS are launched mainly on versions with non-returnable stages. all returns of steps are carefully covered in the press. in fact, all launches with returns of steps can be tracked by the press and there are much fewer of them than the total launches, and the restart of accelerators in general 1.

                so what is there besides iridiums and cargo on the ISS? 3 more satellites like .. the last Spanish and for this launch from the Spaniards more than 150 lyamas have already been ripped off. feel the difference between 62 lyamas and 150?
                1. iwind
                  iwind 18 October 2018 19: 54
                  0
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  so what is there besides iridiums and cargo on the ISS? 3 more satellites like .. the last Spanish and for this launch from the Spaniards more than 150 lyamas have already been ripped off. feel the difference between 62 lyamas and 150?

                  Where does the Spaniards get 150 ??
                  this year
                  31 January 2018, 21: 25
                  Successful launch into the geo-transitional orbit of a telecommunications satellite weighing 4320 kg. The first stage, which previously launched the NROL-76 satellite, was reused.
                  11 May 2018, 20: 14
                  Launch of a commercial telecommunications satellite weighing 6092 kg.
                  4 June 2018, 04: 45
                  Successful launch of a 5384 kg geostationary communications satellite manufactured by Airbus Defense and Space
                  22 July 2018, 05: 50
                  Successful launch of a geostationary communications satellite manufactured by Space Systems / Loral for the Canadian satellite operator Telesat [163]. The mass of the satellite is 7075 kg
                  The first step landed on the Of Course I Still Love You platform.
                  Etc.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  the fact of the matter is that by the way, iridiums alone, they and loads on the ISS are launched mainly on versions with non-returnable stages

                  in 2017 CRS missions with return steps.
                  1. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 22 October 2018 16: 52
                    0
                    Quote: iwind
                    Where does the Spaniards get 150 ??

                    they write in tyrnet. Yes, I know that it’s a very dubious source, but according to quite official data, the cost of SpaceX launches is growing every year. not reduced, namely, growing.
                    Quote: iwind
                    31 January 2018, 21: 25
                    Successful launch into the geo-transitional orbit of a telecommunications satellite weighing 4320 kg. The first stage, which previously launched the NROL-76 satellite, was reused.
                    11 May 2018, 20: 14
                    Launch of a commercial telecommunications satellite weighing 6092 kg.
                    4 June 2018, 04: 45
                    Successful launch of a 5384 kg geostationary communications satellite manufactured by Airbus Defense and Space
                    22 July 2018, 05: 50
                    Successful launch of a geostationary communications satellite manufactured by Space Systems / Loral for the Canadian satellite operator Telesat [163]. The mass of the satellite is 7075 kg
                    The first step landed on the Of Course I Still Love You platform.
                    Etc.

                    I agree.
                    Quote: iwind
                    in 2017 CRS missions with return steps.

                    Are you sure you are not confused with the returned module? or with re-use of the accelerator in a non-returnable version?
                    with the return stage, the Falcon does not reach the ISS.
                    1. iwind
                      iwind 22 October 2018 17: 05
                      +1
                      Quote: SanichSan
                      Are you sure you are not confused with the returned module? or with re-use of the accelerator in a non-returnable version?
                      with the return stage, the Falcon does not reach the ISS.

                      1 step back
                      sometimes used 2 times


                      Quote: SanichSan
                      they write in tyrnet. Yes, I know that it’s a very dubious source, but according to quite official data, the cost of SpaceX launches is growing every year. not reduced, namely, growing.

                      differently.
                      Government contracts are slightly more expensive, but on average 50% cheaper than ULA
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 22 October 2018 17: 15
                        0
                        Quote: iwind
                        1 step back

                        kindly link to this material. I found only CRS capsule return claims.
                        Quote: iwind
                        Government contracts are slightly more expensive, but on average 50% cheaper than ULA

                        in all the laudatory articles they write that "the cost of launches drops significantly" ... usually this is limited.
                        what is the cost of launches in few places.
                        For example, they write this:
                        "For the delivery of cargo to the ISS under the Commercial Resupply Services contract, the company receives from NASA a fixed amount of $ 120 million for each mission, this price, in addition to the LV fee, includes a fee for the Dragon transport ship."
                        and such:
                        "In 2016, SpaceX awarded a $ 9 million contract with the US Air Force to launch a GPS satellite on a Falcon 82,7 rocket."
                        this is from the wiki. Again, the source is not so hot, but I think these figures are reliable.
                        something reduction is not observed especially .... rather the opposite.

                        what is cheaper than that of ULA, so they are not long before the epic with SpaceX generally fought 400kk with the government wassat
                      2. iwind
                        iwind 22 October 2018 18: 33
                        0
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        kindly link to this material. I found only CRS capsule return claims

                        higher video

                        "Successful re-launch of the C108 Dragon cargo spacecraft, previously involved in the SpaceX CRS-6 supply mission. Separating from the second stage at an altitude of 65 km, the first stage flipped tail-first using nitrogen shunting engines. 2 minutes and 38 seconds after launch, re-launched turning on the central engine, and after 4 seconds and two side ones, she made a U-turn and headed to the landing site, moving outside the atmosphere along a ballistic trajectory with a summit of 120 kilometers. For the first time, the launch of the ship was performed by a launch vehicle with a reusable first stage, flying in one of the previous supply missions - SpaceX CRS-11[126].
                        "
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        something reduction is not observed especially .... rather the opposite.

                        what is cheaper than that of ULA, so they are not long before the epic with SpaceX generally fought 400kk with the government

                        Well, they are cheaper than their competitor in government contracts. What is the point of selling them 10 times less?
                        All one thing they will not leave all the orders because of the laws of the United States, there should always be two directors PH.

                        on commerce, on average, 62. there are roads and cheaper. The satellite Asia sat was launched at 52.2.
                        AsiaSat booked its two SpaceX Falcon 9 launches in price of $ 52.2 million per satellite. As it became clear that SpaceX was challenged in meeting its launch schedule, AsiaSat.
                      3. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 23 October 2018 14: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: iwind
                        higher video

                        already saw. did not load right away. strange, you talked about 2017, and it seems that they started to land on land platforms only in 2018 ...
                        Quote: iwind
                        on commerce, on average, 62. there are roads and cheaper. The satellite Asia sat was launched at 52.2.

                        52.2 is it the cost of only the rocket rocket or how much did the customer pay for the delivery of the cargo into orbit? I have a feeling that we are operating with different numbers request
                        Do you understand that these are different numbers? very different yes
              2. igorbrsv
                igorbrsv 18 October 2018 23: 26
                +1
                How many first steps are used again wassat
                How many astronauts did he send wassat
                Bury early. One thing is politics. Another reality. We are lagging behind in many areas, but not in armaments and missile technologies. Let this hurt the USSR. Putin just said that in the event of a nuclear war we will go to heaven, the rest will simply die. wassat I didn’t even add anything from myself
        3. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 18 October 2018 07: 35
          +6
          Because NASA has not yet certified Dragon-2, it has already passed the tests and is waiting for pieces of paper at the spaceport.
          Of 26 US launches this year, SpaceX made 17 launches
          1. milton
            milton 18 October 2018 10: 00
            0
            [Quote] [/ quote]
            In reality, Mask is almost bankrupt, but it is beneficial for mattresses to use the hype in order to move the Roskosmos from the market for the delivery of goods and people into orbit! In the absence of orders, our specialists will slowly (exclusively my opinion) lose their qualifications. And one more, as the author of Musk Manager correctly pointed out, and he did not invent anything new, all of his technologies are NASA technologies, or rather, the scientists of which, with permission, he bought out to himself. negative
        4. zlinn
          zlinn 18 October 2018 18: 53
          0
          this year 17 launches at the mask and 9 at the RK
      2. Wedmak
        Wedmak 18 October 2018 06: 33
        +7
        Well, at least Musk’s rockets take off

        Oh really? But did everyone forget the epic rocket explosion right at the start with the complete destruction of the payload?
        and we are already falling more and more

        Finish your thought - in comparison with whom? Has the United States had any disasters? Has anyone else in the world created a rescue system from ANY height starting from the launch pad? In the entire history, it worked twice in the most unpredictable conditions, the crews were rescued. Technique always breaks down, the only question is "when". What can Musk boast about? Only by launching iron trash to Mars.
        and our effective managers

        An article about achievements and technologies, not effective thieves. There is a separate discussion about them, and preferably in the presence of the UK. For once, I agree with Oleg and his article, for Musk has not created anything outstanding. To combine existing technologies into one unit of production at an exorbitant price - these are its achievements. Moreover, it is very doubtful in terms of development.
        1. zyzx
          zyzx 18 October 2018 07: 07
          +3
          Quote: Wedmak
          Negotiate your thought - compared to whom?

          Compared to the USSR, where all these missiles were developed. And given that since then we have been degrading and not growing, it is becoming sadder. Or do you see the rapid growth of space in our country? I don’t care about the mask at all, but when they stole the floor of the cosmodrome at the construction stage, now they are eliminating the voids, it makes me sad.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 October 2018 08: 15
            +8
            Compared to the USSR, where all these missiles were developed.

            Do you not think that they didn’t steal there? And by the way, do not forget, several republics worked on the Soviet space, and not one.
            Or do you see the rapid growth of space in our country?

            I do not see rapid growth. I don’t see such growth anywhere at all. Neither in the USA, nor even in China. The latter is still catching up with us, albeit quickly. The rest should not even be taken into account, they are up to the manned, as to the moon at the VAZ
            Do not be sad, unfortunately the thieves climbed into all the structures, they had both time and opportunity for this. Fortunately, the process of their landings has begun. Although I would like faster.
          2. dragy52rus
            dragy52rus 18 October 2018 10: 31
            0
            until there are breakthrough technologies, the rapid development of space will be. Now space is, by and large, an unnecessary thing. In addition, electronics in its development has advanced far enough and there is no need to launch satellites as often as before, due to the fact that the service life has become much longer.
        2. LSA57
          LSA57 18 October 2018 07: 17
          +1
          Quote: Wedmak
          Has anyone else in the world created a rescue system with ANY height starting from the launch pad?

          CAC system. takes off 1,5 km up and 1 km to the side
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 October 2018 08: 16
            0
            If I’m not mistaken, the USA had some restrictions. On the entire flight route, only ours saved the carrier rocket.
        3. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 18 October 2018 07: 26
          +6
          Quote: Wedmak
          Musk neither created anything outstanding

          And he does not pretend to be your favor, he simply earns in space, consistently moving towards the fulfillment of his dreams.
        4. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 18 October 2018 09: 14
          +1
          What can Musk boast of?

          The most powerful Falcon-Heavy LV among operating and the most active flying Falcon-9 LV in the world.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 October 2018 15: 26
            +4
            The most powerful pH

            III ?? Tesla is also the coolest in the world. Only for some reason people are launched in the Unions, and people themselves prefer cars cheaper and more practical. Well I wrote: to collect all available technologies into one is not a feat and not a genius. The question of the relationship of quality and value has not been canceled.
        5. iwind
          iwind 18 October 2018 11: 07
          +2
          Quote: Wedmak
          Oh really? But did everyone forget the epic rocket explosion right at the start with the complete destruction of the payload?

          Two years ago .... 34 starts without accidents after that.
          Quote: Wedmak
          Negotiate your thought - compared to whom? Did the US have any disasters? Has anyone else in the world created a rescue system with ANY height starting from the launch pad?

          Quote: Wedmak
          To combine existing technologies into one unit of production at an exorbitant price - these are its achievements

          And what is the exorbitant price?
          They always get less than their competitors.
          "Briefly, NASA plans to launch 2 satellites Sentinel 6A and Landsat 9 missions. SpaceX received Sentinel 6A in November 2020. United Launch Alliance (ULA) received Landsat 2021 on an Atlas 9. In June 5, both satellites were in a field orbit. It seemed like 2 sisters and both gold earrings from the Mother of the Motherland ..
          But!!!
          total cost for NASA to launch Sentinel 6A is approximately $ 97 million, which includes the launch service and other mission related costs,
          while protecting for the ability to launch as early as December 2020, on an Atlas V 401 rocket from Space Launch Complex 3E at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.

          The total cost for NASA to launch Landsat 9 is approximately $ 153.8 million, which includes the launch service and other mission-related costs.
          Space X will receive one and a half times less money than Veterans of the American RKT for basically the same thing ..
          "
          Quote: Wedmak
          I do not see rapid growth. I don’t see such growth anywhere at all. Neither in the USA, nor even in China. The latter is still catching us, although it is quick


          Stormy is not stormy. But growth. Flight to Jupiter, Saturn, to Ceres, astroids, conducted more research programs. From a completely new flight, the Parker Solar Probe (NASA's automatic spacecraft to study the outer corona of the Sun. It is assumed that it will approach the Sun's “surface” at a distance of 8,86 of the Sun's radius (6,2 million kilometers).
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 October 2018 15: 38
            +3
            34 start-up without crash

            The union seems 84 start-up without accidents .. or 86, I do not remember exactly the figure.
            VIDEO

            Yeah and then the numerous victims of the shuttles.
            They always get less than their competitors.

            Well, I don’t believe in cheap starts from a private trader. Here, mark my word - soon or not soon the whole SpaceX kitchen will come out.
            But growth.

            So ... NASA, unlike Roscosmos, works with the full support of the United States and the American printing press. And Russia only gets sanctions. And putting a spoke in the wheels of Russia already in all directions, the bigwigs of NASA with their smile on duty are talking about friendship and cooperation in space, regardless of politics. Yeah, yeah ... all cooperation is to get the required equipment bypassing the sanctions and say "ah-dyu, rushen!"
            They were even boozed so much that they demand to make them a gateway according to American standards for a lunar station. There is a phrase such as "Broke the bottom.", And so the United States is clearly "Broke through the attic!" their Wishlist.
            1. iwind
              iwind 18 October 2018 19: 37
              -1
              Quote: Wedmak
              The union seems 84 start-up without accidents .. or 86, I do not remember exactly the figure.

              Well, there’s no talk that the union is not reliable.
              The conversation was that the Falocon 9 is not reliable. Although he already has a good series without emergency launches. The proton didn’t. And that all the same, the proton was one of the most popular missiles. Even if Falcon explodes tomorrow, it will not change anything.
              Quote: Wedmak
              Yeah and then the numerous victims of the shuttles.

              Well, you can’t put it on the shuttle.
              Quote: Wedmak
              Well, I don’t believe in cheap starts from a private trader. Here, mark my word - soon or not soon the whole SpaceX kitchen will come out.

              I've been waiting for 5 years.
              in the meantime, she is already launching more and cheaper than others
              Quote: Wedmak
              Well ... NASA, unlike Roscosmos, works with the full support of the United States and the American printing press. And Russia gets only sanctions

              belay And why Roscosmos should be supported by the United States ??? He has Russia and a Russian printing press (all countries print money)
              Quote: Wedmak
              And putting a spoke in the wheels of Russia already in all directions, the bigwigs of NASA, with their smile on duty, speak of friendship and cooperation in space, regardless of politics. "

              Where? case studies from nasa
              Quote: Wedmak
              They were even boozed so much that they demand to make them a gateway according to American standards for a lunar station. There is a phrase such as "Broke the bottom.", And so the United States is clearly "Broke through the attic!" with my wishlist

              All right.
              Your suggestions, what can the RF offer on the lunar station?
              Superheavy launch vehicle? no
              Money?
              again work AMC (Automatic Interplanetary Station)
              but let's listen
              Gennady Ivanovich Padalka is the only person on Earth who has lived and worked outside our planet for almost 2,5 years. To be precise, 878 days, 11 hours and 29 minutes in five flights.

              http://www.trud.ru/article/14-06-2018/1363481_na_mne_postavili_krest_posle_pjatogo_poleta.html
              in many respects, Russia is increasingly seriously inferior to the United States and even China, which in recent years has shown impressive success here. Why did Russia slow down on the space path that our country opened by launching the first artificial Earth satellite and flying into the near-earth orbit of the world's first cosmonaut?
              “Our lag really grows, and this is not only very disappointing, but also significantly affects the technical progress in the country,” the astronaut notes. - When you are on board the ISS, you can clearly see how our segment differs from other modules. We, as already mentioned, mainly used the technology of the early to mid-80s. A set of partners created on the latest technical solutions with elements of modern robotics and computer technology. The architecture of building compartments and individual systems is completely different than ours. The Americans, even participating in the Mir-Shuttle program in the nineties, did not technically copy anything from the Soviet Salyut and Mir orbital stations. They were not interested in technical issues. Mainly engaged in scientific research. And most importantly - we received at our station the experience of a long stay in space. The Americans continue these studies, but technically they went further without repeating our developments.

              I was surprised to read on the Roskosmos website that we are leaders in space life support systems. I don’t understand what kind of advisers and consultants this information appeared from, but in reality it’s precisely in life support systems that we have the greatest failure and lag. For example, our foreign partners created and tested a closed water circuit, incorporating a number of regeneration systems into it. And since 2009, practically no water has been delivered into orbit, receiving it from the atmosphere of the station and urine (urine). This water is used for various purposes - both for drinking, and for sanitary and hygienic needs, and for an oxygen generator. But that is not all. Partners also use carbon dioxide and hydrogen to produce water, which in the Russian segment are simply thrown into space as waste. Yes, this is a truly unique system. It has been tested and finalized for a decade.
              "
              1. igorbrsv
                igorbrsv 18 October 2018 23: 48
                0
                Not all USSR developments were sold. There is still something to surprise the world. There are ten years
              2. Wedmak
                Wedmak 19 October 2018 12: 16
                0
                Even if Falcon explodes tomorrow, it will not change anything.

                Well, yes, do not turn to Russia again, what if it’s completing the Federation with the money earned?
                Well, you can’t put it on the shuttle.

                And the analog is not fate to do?
                all countries print money

                Well, actually, as the United States does, no one else does. And just because the dollar is the world's reserve currency. There already such a pyramid of securities was lined up, if it were printed, it would flood all of Washington with its suburbs.
                Your suggestions, what can the RF offer on the lunar station?

                In general, Russia proposed to participate in the construction on an equal footing - everyone is equal, everyone contributes. But the Americans refused and set their conditions, where they would be the main, and the rest are actually maintenance personnel. Is it not rudeness?
                The Americans, even participating in the Mir-Shuttle program in the nineties, did not technically copy anything from the Soviet Salyut and Mir orbital stations. They were not interested in technical issues.

                Of course, the Russians dealt with these issues. And the Americans are just
                Mainly engaged in scientific research.

                Well done, what to say.
                Where? case studies from nasa

                Watch TV.

                Scrambler, of course, is a respected person, and I'm not saying that everything is fine with us. But something disturbs me from the mere mention of joint projects with the Americans. It's like playing cards with a sharpie - you know that 100% is deceived, you just don't know where and how.
                1. iwind
                  iwind 22 October 2018 15: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Well, yes, do not turn to Russia again, what if it’s completing the Federation with the money earned?

                  what's the connection Federation is a manned program.
                  All missiles have a certain percentage of accidents. And while he is not too high, no one will go nowhere without reason. Falocona's statistics are already good.

                  Quote: Wedmak
                  And the analog is not fate to do?

                  for Shatal is physically impossible. There was an opportunity to save only two. Then this system was removed because it is not fair to the rest.
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  In general, Russia proposed to participate in the construction on an equal footing - everyone is equal, everyone contributes. But the Americans refused and set their conditions, where they would be the main, and the rest are actually maintenance personnel. Is not rudeness

                  What contribution? Well, specifically, what can the RF offer on a lunar station now?
                  there is no need for life support systems. Everything else is worse
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Watch TV.

                  Well, about TV it’s completely ridiculous. Well, where are the facts?
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 18 October 2018 06: 31
      0
      Quote: Vard
      our rogues one left behind a belt plugged ...

      I doubt it. they bulge, so they know. ours work quietly, although the scope is no less.
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 24 October 2018 11: 18
      0
      Such “startups”, like Elizabeth Holmes, in the USA at every turn. It is highly likely that the time will come, and the great inventor Ilon Musk will be the target of the next scandal about fraud.

      Quote: Vard
      In general, American crooks, due to the greater historical experience of our crooks, are plugged with one left belt ...

  2. parusnik
    parusnik 18 October 2018 06: 00
    +2
    Musk and Holmes probably thoroughly studied The Golden Calf, especially the chapters on the actions of the Great Combinators ... Rethought and brought to life .. Honest taking money. Money lying on the road, you need to be able to raise it ... So they raised it, and not sickly ...
    1. Semen1972
      Semen1972 18 October 2018 10: 15
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      . Here they raised, and not sickly ....

      What prevents you from lifting? ))) We did not try to conduct trainings, "how to raise the dough"?)))
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 18 October 2018 18: 27
        0
        You know, I didn’t write this comment out of jealousy .. as you reflected in your comment smile I noticed that many methods of fraud reflected in fiction are applied in practice ... "After a telegram in which an unknown citizen notified that it was he, and not someone else, who would command the parade, there was calm. Alexander Ivanovich was not disturbed for three days. He was getting used to the idea that what had happened had nothing to do with him when a thick, custom-made parcel came in. It contained a book called "Capitalist Sharks" with the subtitle: "Biography of American Millionaires." At another time, Koreiko himself would have bought such book, but now he even grimaced in horror. The first phrase was outlined in blue pencil and read: “All major modern fortunes have been acquired in the most dishonorable way.” Then Koreikas were underground now in power ... Big Koreikos are supported by small ones .. And the most ardent patriots are swindlers, from politics, art, etc. ... Nothing bothers me, except conscience, and let you get more ... You are probably a master in this matter e ... hi
  3. jonht
    jonht 18 October 2018 06: 02
    +5
    Oh and rarely I agree with Oleg, but in this case I fully support. He correctly pointed out that, for the most part, the Mask of PR has nothing new in technology, the returning first stage is still a moot point, like electric cars with mediocre characteristics, many hybrids are better and cheaper, but the show should go on ....
    1. Semen1972
      Semen1972 18 October 2018 10: 16
      -1
      Quote: jonht
      that for the most part the Mask of PR and there is nothing new in technology, the returning first stage is still a moot point, like electric cars with mediocre characteristics, many hybrids are better and cheaper, but the show should go on ....

      What do you think is "new in technology" over the last 10 years?
  4. Letnab
    Letnab 18 October 2018 06: 40
    0
    the other day on the internet, information slipped about the dismissal And the Mask ...
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 18 October 2018 07: 36
      +2
      Another fake, general director of Tesla as he was and remained
  5. Nix1986
    Nix1986 18 October 2018 07: 05
    +7
    The author is an employee of the PR department of Roskosmos? laughing
    Firstly, everything is ok with the Tesla car, at least with the S model, because I had a chance to personally ride it in Singapore in a taxi, and the autopilot worked, and it was unusual and scary before the intersection, but everything is ok. Missiles - they fly. And if there are mistakes, well, there’s still little experience. And by the very person and company, for example, I am pleased that there are still people who have not forgotten how to dream and do something with enthusiasm, and not to cut budgets and attach their sons.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 18 October 2018 08: 13
      +3
      Quote: Nix1986
      Firstly, everything is ok with the Tesla machine, at least with the S model,

      This clunker has overestimated characteristics, which can be found in the article by the Russian founder of the Tesla Club, which experienced this tin in the United States. Cruising range of 150 km. less than they advertise, they stood at Tesla's gas stations for an hour. For the city will do, but for long distances something is not very. In addition, Musk has already refused his promise to refuel cars for free, now only a certain number of kilowatts is free, and at the left gas stations the cost of energy is several times more.
    2. Semen1972
      Semen1972 18 October 2018 10: 16
      -1
      Quote: Nix1986
      The author is an employee of the PR department of Roskosmos?

      Ragozin, he also considers the trampoline the best aircraft)))
    3. igorbrsv
      igorbrsv 18 October 2018 11: 01
      +2
      For large cities suitable. For small countries with developed infrastructure such as Switzerland. And for Russia, the USA, Canada, China, India for widespread use No.
      You can’t put a charging station everywhere. With existing battery capacities No.
      $ 35 * 000 rubles = 60 million rubles / 2,1 rubles = 40 liters of gasoline or 50 kilometers. For Tesla more than 000 cycles of full charge discharge
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 18 October 2018 16: 53
        +2
        they also forgot about the temperature in winter and the behavior of batteries in the cold. very delicate moment ...
  6. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 18 October 2018 07: 16
    0
    I didn’t even imagine what my yesterday’s comment on the note about Oleg’s yachts would provoke, I see boiling. The above claims are false from beginning to end, admit Oleg, what is the true hostility to I. Masku? Are you a ULA shareholder?
  7. indy424
    indy424 18 October 2018 07: 23
    +11
    I love these revelations. and the line in the table is advancing
  8. Gardamir
    Gardamir 18 October 2018 07: 27
    0
    And what is everyone so ganged up on the Mask? There are only two options. Either he is a great inventor, or he is a great con man. So far nothing has been proven, what kind of bullying? Why are they not exposing other scammers, but Musk has crossed the road for someone that is so clung to him.
    1. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 18 October 2018 07: 37
      +9
      Quote: Gardamir
      but Musk crossed the road for someone that clung to him so much.

      And you do not see what? With his electric cars, he throats to all manufacturers of ICE cars, with his missiles, to ULA monopolists ... Oleg blames Mask here for taking 92 million from the Pentagon for launch, without mentioning that ULA fought 250 million for the same launch .. 250 million dollars! It’s already a joke in the USA that the Pentagon and the American military-industrial complex corporations pray that Musk will remain a pacifist and not start producing weapons, otherwise he will make F35 for 10 million ...
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 18 October 2018 16: 55
        +1
        Have you already bought a break? Akum already earns you money? laughing
    2. Semen1972
      Semen1972 18 October 2018 10: 17
      -1
      Quote: Gardamir
      for he is a great inventor

      He said that himself ???? Or did you dream about this version?
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 18 October 2018 13: 27
        0
        Did he say that?
        What? Read carefully, I said either this or that ...
    3. dauria
      dauria 18 October 2018 12: 48
      +2
      So far nothing has been proven, what kind of bullying?


      Lyonya Golubkov caught? The collapse of such companies does not end without a trace. Who will the burned-out shareholders blame? Your greed and stupidity? No, they will begin to blame the authorities. And demand "justice and return" from her. Usually such offices are enough for the first financial audit, then reporters will pounce. Then the usual - "I could (could), but the evil authorities did not allow my talents to unfold."
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 18 October 2018 13: 28
        0
        Did you find Lenya Golubkov?
        You are comparing the financial pyramid and the forward movement in the Tesla car science.
        1. dauria
          dauria 18 October 2018 14: 58
          +4
          moving forward in science "Tesla car".


          There is no forward movement here. The last movement forward of humanity was the creation of computer networks and mobile communications. Everyone who managed to skim the cream off. Creators of operating systems, communication sites, online trading platforms, online banks. Further, routine work with a yield of 20% per year. Musk, on the other hand, has "nothing for his soul" - old proven technologies, often abandoned due to unprofitability. Let him wait until the oil runs out - then they will remember Yo-mobiles. Or when those pennies that are saved on boosters become at least one percent of all launch costs. So yes - the Pyramid of the Mask. Give money now, and then I'll give everyone heaven. Thank you, but heaven is ahead. However, and on "MMM" someone managed to earn extra money.
        2. igorbrsv
          igorbrsv 18 October 2018 23: 54
          0
          Science is now marking time. Improve existing technologies. Many, including me, blame Einstein wassat
  9. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 18 October 2018 07: 44
    +12
    In order for an electric car to ride on "environmentally friendly" electricity, someone still has to extract it from coal or oil. At first glance, hydroelectric power plants or nuclear power plants do less harm to our beloved nature, but either it is necessary to block the river, or to dig open pits for uranium. Tidal, wind or solar power plants are generally an ecological scam and razvodilovo for suckers like the European bourgeoisie.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 18 October 2018 07: 48
      +1
      Poor Chinese people came out on top in solar power plants, probably they were also thrown, the wind farms are developing shockly, and they also go out or come out on top. I'm so sorry for them
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 18 October 2018 08: 20
        +4
        I'm so sorry for them

        First place in terms of quantity or percentage of electricity generation? For a lot of solar does not mean at all that the percentage of their contribution is large.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 18 October 2018 09: 00
          -1
          In terms of quantity and percentage, it is clear that they need to be built and built to the level of advanced states in this regard
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 October 2018 15: 41
            0
            the percentage is clear that they need to be built

            I would not say that China has dofig of the territory that they are ready to give for plantations of solar panels.
            1. Topgun
              Topgun 18 October 2018 21: 09
              -1
              in fact, they have a huge territory very suitable for solar panels - the Tibetan plateau 4km above sea level - a dead place with permafrost and kuuuchy sun (the higher the brighter) the territory is huge
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 19 October 2018 12: 01
                0
                Tibetan Plateau 4km above sea level

                Equipment delivery cost? The cost of its maintenance and staff accommodation? Options for the delivery of electricity to the consumer from there? Weather conditions in winter? Specialists are sure to add a dozen more questions. And not the fact that, as a result, the construction of a solar station there will be economically feasible.
                1. Dersturm
                  Dersturm 19 October 2018 14: 03
                  +2
                  It is useless for the sectarians to explain about balancing the energy system and why 70% of electricity is produced by CHPs, they have not heard about the efficiency of a solar battery in 8-14%, but there is "Poverwall" from Ilona Maskovna (at least in the photo), which "will generate electricity", or there is the Solar City company (from the same swindlers), which cut down half an island of trees, installed 52 huge batteries and solar panels that require expensive maintenance, instead of importing 400 tons of fuel oil for a diesel generator once a year. By the way, why is nobody talking about environmentally harmful production of solar panels ??
      2. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 18 October 2018 11: 26
        +3
        The energy generated by windmills and solar panels is not enough to produce components for them - batteries, steel production, mining, etc. There are still no alternatives to nuclear power plants and hydrocarbons
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 18 October 2018 14: 24
          -2
          Enough EROI Solar Panels Approximately 15
          So of course the dependence on the area is big.
          But more than one can be obtained even in Norilsk.
          http://rameznaam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/EROI-of-Solar-Wind-Nuclear-Coal-Natural-Gas-Hydro.png
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 18 October 2018 14: 41
            0
            I suspect it doesn’t include the costs of making batteries and ore mining, etc. As an example, I only found that by burning three barrels of oil one hundred barrels can be extracted. I understand that the rig itself and the workers do not enter here. Only the energy costs of getting
    2. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 18 October 2018 08: 52
      +3
      Quote: Sergey-8848
      In order for an electric car to run on "environmentally friendly" electricity, someone still has to extract it from coal or oil. At first glance, hydroelectric power plants or nuclear power plants do less harm to our beloved nature, but either it is necessary to block the river, or to dig open pits for uranium.

      You are somewhat mistaken. Electricity really needs to be generated and certain resources must be spent for this. But the question of time is important here. I explain. Power engineers have a big problem with peak loads, in order to normally provide the consumer with an electric power supply, they need to have the appropriate capacities, which unfortunately stand idle at night. But it is impossible to turn off the power station at night, it still works (albeit not at full capacity), causing losses to the owner (if there is no aluminum plant in the neighborhood, of course). Those. When charging an electric car at night, you do not cause additional harm to nature, because a power plant burns coal at night anyway, but not for nothing, but for your benefit.
      Well, and most importantly, the power plant is usually (in normal countries) outside the city and combustion products do not even poison brown city residents, while hundreds of thousands of internal combustion engines of varying degrees of deterioration poison you and your loved ones directly. And further. It is much simpler to achieve a high level of purification of harmful emissions at one TPP than on hundreds of thousands of cars.
      Available?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 October 2018 09: 39
        0
        Everything is correct !!! Modern technologies do not allow to solve this PROBLEM effectively and profitably from an economic point of view!
        That's as soon as so right away! and it will not be Musk! it's empty there ....
      2. Ramzai
        Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 16
        +4
        Quote: Puncher
        the power plant still burns coal at night, but not for nothing, but for your benefit.

        I have not read such epic nonsense for a long time. In general, your post is a fantasy on how energy works.
        1. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 23
          +1
          Quote: Ramzai
          I have not read such epic nonsense for a long time.

          Tell how the CHPPs are turned off at night by handing over the key to the watch ...
          1. Ramzai
            Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 26
            +1
            YOU continue to prove that you do not understand the word in energy matters at all.
            1. Hole puncher
              Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 45
              +1
              Quote: Ramzai
              YOU continue to prove that you do not understand the word in energy matters at all.

              Well, develop other people's conjectures, do not leave people in ignorance. Or is this not your way?
          2. dragy52rus
            dragy52rus 18 October 2018 10: 28
            +1
            At night, electricity consumption = 0?
            1. Ramzai
              Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 31
              +2
              No. And who told you that at night the energy sector incurs losses?
              1. dragy52rus
                dragy52rus 18 October 2018 10: 38
                +2
                hole punch writes about this)))
                Yes, there are many who write funny things. especially in favor of green energy and the backwardness of other ways of generating energy.
                1. Ramzai
                  Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 46
                  +3
                  He is very mistaken. Just to explain this, I will have to write about what a single power system is, what are the load schedules, which are compiled for a separate power system, for any power plant as a whole, and there is still a lot of specific information that does not carry any information value for HE.
                  1. Hole puncher
                    Hole puncher 18 October 2018 11: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Ramzai
                    Just to explain this, I will have to write about what a single power system is, what are the load schedules

                    You are trying on a situation in Russia with its run in time zones. But this is not true because we do not shine the electrification of cars. For example, Europe lives in almost the same time zone and their peak load on the grid is identical across all countries. Those. nowhere to redistribute generating capacity. Same thing in the USA. But these countries are the main markets for electric vehicles, they are not for Russia.
                    1. Ramzai
                      Ramzai 18 October 2018 11: 14
                      +1
                      Quote: Puncher
                      You are trying on a situation in Russia with its run in time zones. But this is not true because we do not shine the electrification of cars. For example, Europe lives in almost the same time zone.


                      Again, you begin to give spherical arguments in a vacuum. What’s the time zone here? The entire energy system of the Russian Federation is divided into several parts: the energy system of the South, Siberia, the Urals, etc. Each power system is in its own time zone, otherwise it would be extremely difficult to manage the power system. The energy system has intersystem connections, through which a surplus of one energy system can cover the deficit of the neighboring one. There is a wholesale electricity market for this. In addition, I’ll tell you a secret that Europe buys electricity from us.

                      Quote: Puncher
                      But these countries are the main markets for electric vehicles, they are not for Russia.


                      In Europe and the United States, you use lower taxes for using an electric car. That’s the whole secret.
                      1. Hole puncher
                        Hole puncher 18 October 2018 12: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        What’s the time zone here?

                        Quote: Ramzai
                        Each power system is in its own time zone.

                        You ask a question to which you yourself give an answer
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        otherwise managing the power system would be extremely difficult.

                        Quote: Ramzai
                        surplus of one energy system can cover the deficit of the neighboring one.

                        Absolutely right. But in Europe, one time zone and surplus in Germany coincides with the surplus in Spain, i.e. at night, because at 2 a.m. both in Berlin, and in Stockholm, and Madrid ... What to do with power? To whom to redistribute? Is it in Russia, where, at this time, is 4 hours?
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        In addition, I’ll tell you a secret that Europe buys electricity from us.

                        Open secret, buys in order to fill the deficit arising during peak hours.
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        In Europe and the United States, you use lower taxes for using an electric car. That’s the whole secret.

                        If tomorrow Uzbekistan completely nullifies taxes on electric cars, it will pay extra 1 mln. sum for each purchase of Tesla, then the market of Uzbekistan will not be interesting anyway. Many can give 140 thousand euros for a car in Europe, therefore the European market is interesting for Tesla. Taxes here only in the role of cherries on the cake ...
                      2. Ramzai
                        Ramzai 18 October 2018 13: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: Puncher
                        If tomorrow Uzbekistan completely nullifies taxes on electric cars, it will pay extra 1 mln. sum for each purchase of Tesla, then the market of Uzbekistan will not be interesting anyway

                        It could be compared with Zimbabwe for contrast.
                      3. Hole puncher
                        Hole puncher 18 October 2018 14: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        It could be compared with Zimbabwe for contrast.

                        Why mock, you are well aware that Tesla makes cars for countries whose citizens can fully afford them and tax breaks are not important here.
                      4. Ramzai
                        Ramzai 18 October 2018 14: 51
                        +1
                        I am absolutely serious. We have enough people who can afford Tesla. She stands at the level of the business class of the Germans, and we have plenty of them.
                      5. dauria
                        dauria 18 October 2018 15: 28
                        0
                        Roman, you are trying in vain. For most people, everything is simple - "I personally have enough 1 kW. Light, computer, microwave. I will go through the peak with a battery, and in the yard there is a solar panel two by two meters." A kind of country house is a dream. (Or country-dream, solid office) And what to think about that somewhere some "negros" boil steel, make chemicals, carry loads, plowed field, warm city and pile-pile of all, without which his dream home will turn into "Uncle Tom's hut" in the 13th century. It's easier to say this - all mankind needs 24 GW * h of electricity per year and three more times for the same amount of thermal and mechanical. And let them count in panels and windmills. Then in dollars. And that's all.
                      6. Korax71
                        Korax71 18 October 2018 18: 40
                        -1
                        In America, depending on the state, different tariffs for Electricity. For example, in "green" states such as California, electricity is very expensive. Therefore, power banks there and in similar states go with a bang. They pay no less taxes, but in more polluted regions there are subsidies for the purchase of electric vehicles and not only Tesla, but also Nissan. plus permission to move along the lanes allocated for public transport, the fight for the environment, however.
            2. Hole puncher
              Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 51
              +1
              Quote: dragy52rus
              At night, electricity consumption = 0?

              No, of course, but much lower than in the morning or in the evening. Why is your nightly rate half your daily rate?
              1. Ramzai
                Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 59
                +3
                Quote: Puncher
                Why is your nightly rate half your daily rate?

                You wrote that power engineers suffer losses at night. What is the point then to reduce the tariff at night? Contradict yourself.
                1. Hole puncher
                  Hole puncher 18 October 2018 11: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: Ramzai
                  What is the point then to reduce the tariff at night?

                  Stimulate consumers, for what else.
                  1. Ramzai
                    Ramzai 18 October 2018 11: 18
                    +3
                    Quote: Puncher
                    Quote: Ramzai
                    What is the point then to reduce the tariff at night?

                    Stimulate consumers, for what else.

                    Come on. And I was taught that at night, costs are reduced and losses are reduced. And it’s how it goes! This is an incentive to consume at night.
                  2. dragy52rus
                    dragy52rus 18 October 2018 11: 42
                    +2
                    Quote: Puncher
                    Stimulate consumers

                    stimulate, but for completely different reasons than you think. Why are they forced to switch from incandescent lamps to savings and refuse 100 W incandescent lamps in general? light bulbs mostly turn on at night. why incur losses?
                    1. Ramzai
                      Ramzai 18 October 2018 13: 20
                      +4
                      Everything is much simpler. Reduced generation at night. This leads to lower power plant costs. In addition, lower consumption leads to lower network loads and lower network losses. Accordingly, the cost of 1 kWh falls, since all of the above forms the tariff.
                      1. dragy52rus
                        dragy52rus 18 October 2018 14: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Ramzai
                        reduce network load and reduce network losses.

                        I led to this
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 18 October 2018 10: 25
          -1
          Quote: Ramzai
          I have not read such epic nonsense for a long time.

          There are questions regarding the form and accuracy of the described, but this does not change the essence of the problem.
          Probably need to be an economist - an energy specialist, Schaub will be imbued! Not given ... it happens.
          1. Ramzai
            Ramzai 18 October 2018 10: 28
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            There are questions regarding the form and accuracy of the described, but this does not change the essence of the problem.
            Probably need to be an economist - an energy specialist, Schaub will be imbued! Not given ... it happens.

            The entire post, both in form and in accuracy, does not correspond to reality.
            1. Topgun
              Topgun 18 October 2018 21: 33
              -1
              what are the inaccuracies?
              please argue, it's so simple and I can call your comments nonsense of an amateur who has no idea about the power system robot ...
              at the same time, it is reasoned because I will insert in my comment the word - NPP ... (I hope you know how these giants "are able" to maneuver with their power during the day (written in brackets - sarcasm (just in case wink )))
          2. dragy52rus
            dragy52rus 18 October 2018 10: 41
            +3
            the essence of the problem is one. green energy cannot exist without the traditional generation of energy.
            1. Hole puncher
              Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 49
              -2
              Quote: dragy52rus
              the essence of the problem is one. green energy cannot exist without the traditional generation of energy.

              The point is not in the type of electricity generation, but in the efficiency of their use. I didn’t mention anything about greens. I say that electric cars do not increase the burden on the environment.
              1. dragy52rus
                dragy52rus 18 October 2018 11: 36
                +3
                if we omit the production and disposal of batteries, then they simply transfer the load to another place. Thermal power plants just exist to regulate the level of electricity generation. with their help, maneuvering takes place. during the day you need more, stoker stronger. If you need less, then responsibly reduce production. nobody produces extra energy.
                1. Hole puncher
                  Hole puncher 18 October 2018 12: 28
                  -3
                  Quote: dragy52rus
                  do not produce excess energy

                  But it is not produced, but wasted. Coal burns, steam pressure is maintained, turbines rotate, the process cannot be stopped, and there is practically no consumer.
                  It’s easier at the hydroelectric power station, it shut off the damper and the water went through a different water conduit, and the steam pressure needs to be maintained at the TPP.
                  1. Ramzai
                    Ramzai 18 October 2018 12: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: Puncher
                    And it is not produced, but wasted.

                    This phrase does not comply with the law of conservation of energy, as well as everything else that you write.
                  2. Ramzai
                    Ramzai 18 October 2018 12: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Puncher
                    Coal burns, steam pressure is maintained, turbines rotate, the process cannot be stopped, and there is practically no consumer.

                    Stop talking nonsense.
  10. spirit
    spirit 18 October 2018 07: 47
    +3
    There are Mask and there are Medvedev) both optimize, but what is the difference .... hi
  11. nikvic46
    nikvic46 18 October 2018 08: 52
    +4
    Why is there such an interest in a person like Elon Musk? My paths didn’t intersect with him. I am more connected by
    by telephone with the heating unit. If Musk is a swindler, this is his business, as well as of American society. If something has fallen from Soviet developments, then the question arises as to what prevents us from using such developments. In general, before such publications were printed in special editions
    or in scientific journals.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 18 October 2018 09: 36
    0
    Everything has long been understood, challenged and argued! The sect remains at its own, and the others do not care .... the audience, as always, vote with their FEET! Top - Top - Top!
  13. Imobile
    Imobile 18 October 2018 09: 54
    +2
    We listened to the performances of the Roscosmos sect. Any propaganda breaks down on facts. And the facts are that I talked with the guys from Europe, they are delighted with the energy saving system at home. The queue for cars for several years ahead. And the most important thing, all commercial launches went to Mask, ABSOLUTELY ALL. A curtain.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 18 October 2018 10: 30
      0
      Energy saving is good, CORRECT, especially wherever you are in Chukotka, for example! Yes, an electric car is especially needed there!
      Geyropa realities and Russia realities, such different ... weather conditions, among other things.
      About space .... we have our own SWAMP, they have their OWN, and waders / frogs EVERYWHERE are the same.
      1. Imobile
        Imobile 18 October 2018 11: 39
        +4
        Say the swamp ... Well, I wanted to buy a car from Prokhorov - that's true. Yes, I understood that we have a cold climate, but I figured that it was the very thing to go to work. Moreover, the price suited me. This is in Moscow. Tesla was not going to buy because of the price, but I think in the USA with their salaries, Tesla is an EMobile for me, only real. As for energy saving, so looking at how much I pay for electricity, I’m already considering buying a Tesla solution and buying it exactly when they introduce the social rate and increase the cost. And as from practice, I saw a neighbor working option, others will want. That is, in addition to the world market, it turns out that all of Russia will line up to it, not without the help of our government, but we will not talk about it, Mask, it comes from the increase in electricity prices associated with corruption, or we are just fans of new technologies. And you better keep quiet about space, there is nothing for us to praise, only it remains to remember. The whole commerce has passed to the Mask. THE FINISH!!! And do not rash me salt in the wound! Musk well done! We also seemed to have, like I read, they killed him in a pre-trial detention center with a bottle in a point.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 18 October 2018 12: 12
          +2
          Quote: Imobile
          Musk well done! We also seemed to have,

          I didn’t say he’s stupid --- stupid, for a simple / complex upgrade of what was before him, to mow the babosikov (conventionally, not everything is known here), it must be .... in short, we read for example Oh Henry, " The Trust That Burst, "instructive.
          Quote: Imobile
          Tesla is an EMobile for me, only real.

          I didn’t write that this is BAD, ALWAYS wrote that it is the FUTURE, perhaps even brighter and cleaner, as soon as they invent / create NEW energy sources or storage devices (batteries) !!! By the way, Russia is a reality, it’s not only COLD, it is LACK of the necessary infrastructure for the operation of electric vehicles !!! These are our realities, problems.
          Quote: Imobile
          And keep quiet about space,

          Strange, somewhere I PRAISED our Russian space industry with all of it .... just from dope to crime. I swear and want to go back to the PEOPLE who created and moved the Soviet Cosmonautics !!!
          Quote: Imobile
          As for energy saving, so having a look

          She just looked at me, as it was unbalanced, how did I study on ELECTRIC SUPPLY and other, other, and Soviet Classical Higher Education, this is very GUT. It helps.
          In short, I study and consider everything .... I KNOW very well, I want to save energy, save it, for example I need to WORK it or buy it soon !!!
          At my place there is a SUNNY POWER PLANT, an accumulator reserve and an inert heat storage unit that receives energy (heating) during daylight hours. Next on the list of REAL innovations, in the field of saving money for housing services.
          MY house is never left without heat, water and light (with proper savings) even though you are tearing me a garden .... a joke but with a sense, a record of 4 days in winter! and in the summer, the meat in the refrigerator did not go cold, they sat for 3 days without light!
          By the way, if someone invents GOOD batteries, at least Mask, at least someone, I WILL BUY! If the price is not sky-high.
          1. Imobile
            Imobile 18 October 2018 12: 22
            -2
            I agree that Musk uses the achievements of the previous ones. In this he is well done, while we have everything lying on the shelves and gathering dust, he exploits. Then he will accumulate fat and will come up with his own. No one else can do it in the world - NOBODY. It's like an OS - there is only 3 or something else who will get up first - that and slippers! And you don’t want to go back to the past, otherwise we will stay there. We need to look into the future, now new technologies, new management methods, computers ... and a lot of things. If you want to save, and you have your own home, you can look towards the gas battery.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 18 October 2018 13: 20
              0
              Not against Musk, I'm just from another club, "Crazy Hands" which.
              "Chemistry to life !!!", the slogan is old, but I am somewhat out of profile, although I am a big fan of it, forced .... according to my plans, I have a wind turbine with an average power of 1 - 1.5 kW. The small one is already working, it is normal, although the "exhaust" at my location is very average. The most stable one hid behind a large hillock. "delicious" breeze past me. But, since the costs are really penny, and the "small productive" forces are always at hand, I will do it.
              Also, my technical infrastructure is "sharpened" for electricity, according to the profile.
        2. igorbrsv
          igorbrsv 18 October 2018 13: 32
          -1
          Well, you buy Tesla. The number of charge cycles is limited. Shows you 20% battery capacity in the morning. And you in Moscow bam and got stuck in winter. The stove is turned on, well, or air conditioning wassat Again, the apartment does not charge. Wiring will not pull
          1. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 18 October 2018 18: 05
            0
            Quote: igorbrsv
            Well, you buy Tesla. The number of charge cycles is limited. Shows you 20% battery capacity in the morning. And you in Moscow bam and got stuck in winter. The stove is turned on, well, or air conditioning wassat Again, the apartment does not charge. Wiring will not pull

            Tesla is not for Russia, it is for normal countries.
        3. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 18 October 2018 18: 08
          +1
          Quote: Imobile
          Musk well done! We also seemed to have, like I read, they killed him in a pre-trial detention center with a bottle in a point.

          You about it
  14. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 04
    +4
    The modern level of technological development allows us to make a controlled landing of the launch vehicle stage on any chosen platform. Another question is why this is needed. The canonical answer of Mask sect adherents: multiple use of the first stage, the cost of which is 2 / 3 of the total cost of the launch vehicle, reduces the launch price.

    It is not clear what Oleg disagrees with here? In aviation, for example, such a scheme works, after the flight, the B777 does not change its GE90 aircraft engines worth $ 30 million for new ones, they are diagnosed if it is necessary to repair and continue to work, to carry passengers. Nobody says that they say the engines have already been used and it’s dangerous to fly on such an airplane.
    Falcon 9 is $ 62 million. The cost of satellite output achieved in practice (in the interests of the US Department of Defense) is even higher - from 82 to 96 million dollars.

    Since the beginning of the year there have been 16 launches, of which only three are in the interests of NASA, and the Pentagon, it is not difficult to calculate the average cost of launch. Commercial 13x62mln., Pentagon 1x92mln., NASA 2x120mln. (for NASA, the cost is higher due to the Dragon SC). As you can see, work for the state does not give any significant profit.
  15. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 18 October 2018 10: 20
    +5
    Of course, we are not talking about any mass character.

    What according to Oleg is mass production? In 2018, 141,5 thousand cars were produced. Is this not mass production?
    If you look at the selected premium segment, then any well-known automaker has ten times greater sales figures.

    Such statements must be supported by numbers. Below are the sales statistics for September in the USA.

    Model (s) September 2018 United States Sales
    Tesla Model 3 24040
    BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10889
    Audi A3 + A4 + A5 + A6 7578
    Mercedes C / CLA / CLS / E-Class 11131
    Lexus ES + GS + IS + RC 7713
    Infiniti Q50 + Q60 + Q70 3284
    Volvo 60 + 90 1715
    Acura RLX + TLX 2228
    Lincoln Continental + MKZ 2543
    Genesis G80 1201
    TOTAL 72322
  16. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 18 October 2018 11: 10
    +3
    Strange article.

    Musk is committed to passing the well-promoted Hollywood image of "a rich man who wants to make the world a better place (not like all these others ...)". Are his ideas utopian? Mostly yes. Roads? Indisputable. Shortsighted? Likely. But...

    Musk is a product of his time. In order to earn money - now you don't even need to work or be a specialist in any field. It is important that the surrounding 90% consider you as such. Let's remember the "genius" of Steve Jobs. What did he end up doing? He made the technicians the first to implement the idea (of a buttonless smartphone) that flew in the air and was not easy to implement, but to be implemented with high quality. The genius aura did the rest, right down to the price tag. And then marketing promoted the product as the future and not to use (produce) such a progressive apparatus - it became simply a shame. Still, they are greeted by their clothes ...

    We must pay tribute to Apple made a gift to all other manufacturers who quickly riveted their crooked versions based on the Androyd curve and sold them 15-20% cheaper than Apple itself (And this is, on average, 30% more expensive than the price of an ordinary "old" phone)

    However, back to Musk. We must pay tribute to his Paypal system, he outstripped clumsy banks by 5 years. Although the idea of ​​this very system is in fact the usual control of transactions, only with smaller amounts that banks in the late 90s were not particularly interested in. Now banks have introduced electronic payment elements for their cards and, in fact, PayPal is dead. He just became unnecessary. However, advertising does its job and Elon became a "genius".

    Further a matter of technology. A trend is taken, twisted to the point of absurdity, and its implementation begins. You want green technology - I have it. You are afraid to fly - I will pump you. You do not have enough Internet access - I will give it to you everywhere. Want to ride into space - easy! It is important to promise to solve a difficult problem and get news of its implementation. After all, how big is the difference: “Musk's car finally moved after 100 million investments and 4 years of trial and error” and “The first movement in a vacuum was accomplished thanks to the millionaire philanthropist and genius Elon Musk!” But the event is one and the same.

    The hype around Ilona is reminiscent of what is shown in the movies - it teaches Norot that this is exactly what a real "genius" is. A set of clichés: rich, famous, wild, big and brilliant. And the latter, even in the movies, if you look closely, it is not a fact.

    Welcome to the planet Marvel ...
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 18 October 2018 20: 26
      0
      Well, with Jobs, you're on the kink. His genius manifested itself long before the iPhone. Yes, and with Android you have a gaffe. It works confidently on normal "non-Chinese" hardware.
      1. Irbenwolf
        Irbenwolf 19 October 2018 11: 18
        -2
        "I am not a surgeon - I have no wings ..." (O. Bender)

        Used systems equipped with Android firms Sony, Samsung, Asus. Not thrilled.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 20 October 2018 11: 15
          0
          I use the ancient Galaxy S4 mini. For many years. And at the same time, everyone uses it, UNDERLINE ALL the iPhone user living in the neighborhood. They use the principle "Let me call, or my phone is dead."
          1. Irbenwolf
            Irbenwolf 22 October 2018 13: 37
            0
            Strange, but absolutely the same thing I can say about the people around me and my 5S.
  17. Yodzakura
    Yodzakura 19 October 2018 14: 09
    -2
    What did not leave your ass in this car
  18. Dersturm
    Dersturm 19 October 2018 14: 20
    -1
    Quote: IrbenWolf
    "I am not a surgeon - I have no wings ..." (O. Bender)

    Used systems equipped with Android firms Sony, Samsung, Asus. Not thrilled.

    Well, in general, Zhops did not force the technicians to catch something that was in the air, they just ripped off a Microsoft phone with a sensor that did not go on sale (they could not force customers to change the phone, which holds a battery charge for a week, to a touchscreen, which sits down in a day). And "Bucket" is generally a fucking brazen theft of ten years of enthusiasts' work on "Linux" and selling it for money ...
    1. Irbenwolf
      Irbenwolf 22 October 2018 13: 42
      -1
      At the turn of 90-00 I saw photos of a living touch prototype from Nokia. So it was not Steve who came up with the smartphone in the form in which it turned out. However, the software was controlled - there are fewer glitches in iOS.

      PS Now it may have already caught up, but to the death of Steve - Androyd always caught up.
      1. Dersturm
        Dersturm 22 October 2018 14: 10
        -1
        Well, let's say I like a touchscreen monitor in "Robocop" - I saw it in the 80s, but that's so little things. It's just that all modern operating systems from such "Dinosaurs and Innovators" were essentially stolen, such as that "Windows", that "MACOS" were ripped off OS / 2 ..
  19. Fox
    Fox 19 October 2018 21: 29
    0
    Americans do not read their classics! smile
  20. Pimply
    Pimply 22 October 2018 12: 16
    +1
    What a hot nonsense.

    The personal computer appeared due to the compilation of already existing technologies. Same with smartphones and tablets. All this was already - like electric cars. Only no one, either before Mask or before Jobs, created computers and electric vehicles so that they were convenient, simple, and relatively cheap to use. The same with rockets. One may hysteria as much as the fake Mask and the senselessness of the return stages, only while Roskosmos was stealing, Mask wrung out most of the market of commercial launches, while Russia left 70 10 percent.
  21. cockroaches
    cockroaches 23 October 2018 17: 25
    -1
    Quote: Ramzai
    Quote: Puncher
    Quote: Ramzai
    What is the point then to reduce the tariff at night?

    Stimulate consumers, for what else.

    Come on. And I was taught that at night, costs are reduced and losses are reduced. And it’s how it goes! This is an incentive to consume at night.

    So do you think that the losses during transportation of 1 kW in the network from the generated organization to the consumer depend on the time of day? Discovered new laws of physics?
  22. Russian
    Russian 24 October 2018 01: 47
    +1
    Launch statistics 2018:
    Russia - 10 launches
    USA - 26 launches (16 launches at Mask)
    Total: Musk launched one and a half times more missiles than Russia
  23. cockroaches
    cockroaches 18 November 2018 12: 14
    0

    This video explains everything.