Military Review

The myth of the arbitrariness of the Bolsheviks in the reform of Russian spelling

348
The myth of the arbitrariness of the Bolsheviks in the reform of Russian spelling 100 years ago a new spelling was finally and officially introduced in Russia. October 10 The 1918 decree of the Council of People’s Commissars and the decree of the Presidium of the High Council of the National Economy "On the withdrawal of the general letters of the Russian language from circulation" (i decimal, fit and iat) was adopted.


The first edition of the decree introducing new spelling was published in the Izvestia newspaper less than two months after the Bolsheviks came to power, December 23 1917 of the year (January 5 of the New Year's style 1918). As a result, the reform of the Russian language led to the emergence of the myth of “Bolshevik arbitrariness”, “forced simplification of the language” by the communists, etc. This opinion began to emerge in the Soviet era. Then the spelling reform, largely due to which (this fact cannot be denied) in a huge country, illiteracy was eliminated as soon as possible, was hailed as the conquest of the revolution, as a merit of Soviet power exclusively.

It is clear that after the collapse of the USSR, this assessment with a plus sign was changed to a minus sign. In 1990, they even raised the question of returning to the old spelling. Especially zealous in the abolition of the "Bolshevik" spelling clergy. The letters “er” and “yat” (especially the first one) at the beginning of the 1990-s that were withdrawn during the reform became one of the symbols of both “old”, pre-revolutionary Russia, and opposition to the “scoop”. One of the most striking examples of this is Kommersant in the name of the newspaper Kommersant (Kommersant). The newspaper began to appear even in Soviet times, challenging the order of the time (already at the stage of collapse).


A sample of illiterate use of yatya in today's Russia. "ANTIQUES" instead of "ANTIQUES". Photo: Nicolay Sidorov, commons.wikimedia.org

In reality, the Russian Bolsheviks in the country in turmoil were not in the mood for drawing up plans for reforming the Russian language. There were plenty of other worries. The Soviet government simply used the previously prepared plans. So, the reform was prepared long before the 1917 revolution of the year and was prepared not by revolutionaries, but by professional linguists. Of course, among them were people with their own political views. For example, a Russian linguist, literary historian, academician A. I. Sobolevsky, known for his active participation in the activities of various kinds of nationalist and monarchist organizations, in particular, the Union of Russian People. Preparations for reform began at the end of the 19th century: after the publication of the works of Yakov Karlovich Groth, who first gathered together all the spelling rules, the need to streamline and simplify Russian spelling became clear.

It can also be noted that the thought of the unjustified complexity of Russian writing occurred to some scholars in the 18th century. Thus, the Academy of Sciences first tried to exclude the letter “Izhitsa” from the Russian alphabet as early as 1735, and in 1781, at the initiative of the Director of the Academy of Sciences Sergey Gerasimovich Domashnev, one section of Academic News was printed without a letter at the end of words. That is, this idea was born in Russia long before the 1917 revolution of the year.

At the beginning of the 20th century, Moscow and Kazan Pedagogical Societies proposed their own projects for the reform of the Russian letter. In 1904, the Orthography Commission was established at the Department of Russian Language and Literature of the Academy of Sciences, which was tasked with simplifying Russian writing (primarily in the interests of the school). The commission was headed by the prominent Russian linguist Philip Fedorovich Fortunatov, and its members included the greatest scientists of the time, A. A. Shakhmatov (who headed the commission in 1914, after the death of F. F. Fortunatov), ​​I. A. Baudouin de Courtenay, P. N. Sakulin and others. The commission considered several proposals, including quite radical ones. Initially, it was proposed to abandon the letter b in general, and use b as a separator sign, while canceling the writing of a soft sign at the end of words after hissing and writing the mouse, night, love. It was immediately decided to remove the letters “nine” and “phi” from the Russian alphabet. The draft of the new spelling was presented by scientists in the 1912 year, but was not approved, although it was widely discussed.

Further, the case was continued under the Provisional Government. 11 (24) May 1917 was held a meeting with the participation of members of the Orthographic Commission of the Academy of Sciences, linguists, school teachers, at which it was decided to soften some of the provisions of the project 1912 of the year. So, the members of the commission agreed with the proposal of A. A. Shakhmatov to keep the soft sign on the end of the words after hissing. The result of the discussion was the “Resolution of the meeting on the simplification of Russian spelling,” which was approved by the Academy of Sciences. After 6 days, 17 (30) in May, the Ministry of Education issued a circular in which it was proposed to introduce reformed spelling in schools from the new school year. Another circular came out on June 22 (July 5).

Thus, the reform of the Russian language would have occurred without October. True, under the Provisional Government, the transition to new spelling was planned to be gradual. And the Bolsheviks, in accordance with the situation, acted decisively, revolutionary.

So, the Bolsheviks withdrew from the printing houses all the letters with the letter b. Despite the fact that the new spelling was canceled not to Kommersant at all (this proposal, which was considered in 1904, the Orthographic Commission subsequently refused), but only its spelling at the end of words (Kommersant’s use as a separator sign was preserved), the letters were universally selected. To designate a separator mark, typesetters had to use an apostrophe, so there appeared writing such as lifting, meeting, etc.

As a result, the new spelling was introduced by two decrees: after the first decree signed by the People's Commissar of Education A.V. Lunacharsky and published on December 23 1917 of the year (January 5 1918 of the year), the second decree of October 10 of 1918, signed by Deputy Commissar M. N. Pokrovsky and the manager of the affairs of the Council of People's Commissars V. D. Bonch-Bruyevich. In accordance with the reform, the letters five, phi, I (“and decimal”) were excluded from the alphabet; instead they should be used, respectively, E, F, and; a solid sign (b) at the end of words and parts of compound words was excluded. Already in October, the official organs of the Bolsheviks, the newspapers Izvestia and Pravda, switched to the new spelling 1918. Interestingly, the old spelling, abolished by the decrees of the Bolsheviks, became one of the symbols of the White movement, it played the same role for the Russian emigration. For example, I. A. Bunin noted: “By order of the Archangel Michael himself, I will never accept Bolshevik spelling. If only by the mere fact that the human hand had never written anything like what is now written according to this spelling. "

Thus, the new spelling is not “the arbitrariness of the Bolsheviks”, but the result of many years of work by the leading Russian scientists of an old, pre-revolutionary Russia. The Soviet government only completed this process in the style of those fiery years - revolutionary.
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  1. Tahtvjd2868
    Tahtvjd2868 10 October 2018 05: 49
    0
    Yes .. the Bolsheviks are not the ones who are not the same .. crushed.
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 10 October 2018 06: 56
      +2
      Quote: Tahtvjd2868
      Yes .. the Bolsheviks are not the ones who are not the same .. crushed.

      "Are you for the Bolsheviks, al for the Communists? ..."
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 10 October 2018 08: 02
        +3
        Quote: Anatol Klim
        "Are you for the Bolsheviks, al for the Communists? ..."

        At that time, even an uneducated peasant understood that the Bolsheviks and the Communists were not the same thing, and that the infinite fell into a heap in order to spoil the idea of ​​Bolshevism and whitewash Trotskyism.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 10 October 2018 10: 43
          +3
          Yes, the Communists then often understood precisely the supporters of Trotsky and hated them fiercely. However, this did not prevent the existence of a wide variety of movements and gangs under the strangest and even mutually exclusive slogans. With literacy and an understanding of formal definitions, everything was very bad.

          So yes, the Bolshevik is a member of the party RKPB - Russian communist the party of the Bolsheviks.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 13: 48
            -21
            Different grades of crap (C).
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 14: 22
              +2
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              Different grades of crap (C).

              you forgive the doryan occur ?!
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 14: 28
                -11
                Who are the Dorians?
                I know the Dorians, the ancestors of the Spartans, but I don’t know the Dorians.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 15: 08
                  +4
                  don't play the fool, because you realized that a typo
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 15: 22
                    -15
                    Different grades of shit (Admiral Kolchak)
                    About leftists in general.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 10 October 2018 16: 08
                      +8
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Different varieties of crap (Admiral Kolchak) About leftists in general

                      Only the illegibility of the general in the grades of shit, led him to the failure of all his attempts. Have a happy journey in his footsteps. laughing
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 19
                        -5
                        He was an admiral.
                        Just Kolchak “..but if someone (before the seventeenth year) spoke to him about politics, he would answer that he is not interested in politics, does not understand anything in it and believes that students, untidy female students and Jews are engaged in politics” And .N. Tolstoy, "Going through the throes." "
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 16: 28
                        +7
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        He was an admiral.

                        keyword WAS
                        so they had to stay, maybe then he remained in the history of Russia as an admiral, the conqueror of the North, but he remained in history as a drug addict and killer, and no films will change that
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 53
                        -7
                        German agents did not need admirals, do you recall the fate of Schastny?
                        That's it ...
                        Whom did Kolchak kill, by the way?
                        The fight against banditry and terrorism was his duty.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 19
                        +8
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Whom did Kolchak kill, by the way?

                        don't make a fool of yourself
                        whom Hitler, Goering, Himmler personally killed? !!!
                        and for your information:
                        “The Supreme Court of Russia refused to rehabilitate Admiral Kolchak.
                        Chairman of the Military Collegium Nikolai Petukhov refused to rehabilitate the admiral and added that he would personally respond to all similar requirements in the future.

                        In September 2001, the Supreme Court of Russia already considered the case of the rehabilitation of Alexander Kolchak. Then the court did not consider it possible to appeal the decision of the military court of the Trans-Baikal Military District of January 26, 1999, which recognized Kolchak as not subject to rehabilitation.

                        According to the military prosecutor of the rehabilitation department of the Trans-Baikal Military District, Alexander Kotlomin, the data of Kolchak's interrogations showed that he "did not stop the terror against the civilian population carried out by his counterintelligence." According to him, "counterintelligence, with Kolchak's knowledge, raged, shooting communists, therefore, as a person who committed crimes against peace and humanity, the admiral is not subject to rehabilitation."
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 02
                        -9
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        whom Hitler personally killed, Goering

                        Wow, these many people were killed, they were excellent warriors in WWI.
                        Personally killed the enemies at the front.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        The Supreme Court of Russia refused to rehabilitate Admiral Kolchak.
                        But Kolchak cannot be rehabilitated, because he was not convicted by the court, and as a gang of the Left Social Revolutionaries, he was criminally killed. This can not even be called execution.
                        And the opinion of Pitukhov, it has nothing to do with it.
                      6. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 03
                        +6
                        You, or you play the fool, the legality of this verdict is not even disputed by a modern court.
                      7. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 19: 22
                        -6
                        Sentence of what?
                        And the prosecutor of whom?
                      8. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 21: 20
                        +5
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        -2
                        Sentence of what?

                        Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee, so arrange?
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        And the prosecutor of whom?

                        The decision was signed by members of the All-Russian Revolutionary Committee A. Shiryamov, A. Snoskarev, M. Levenson and Oborin
                      9. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 30
                        -4
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee, so arrange?

                        Of course not.
                        This is an ordinary gang, which the Bolsheviks themselves then dispersed and slashed.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        The decision was signed by members of the All-Russian Revolutionary Committee A. Shiryamov, A. Snoskarev, M. Levenson and Oborin

                        to breathe ... according to the instructions of the headquarters of the Sichen smoking ... things ... things ... in
                        size ... I handed over in integrity ...
                        “In size ...” Vasilisa squeaked once and then fell silent.
                        - ... Passed during the search. And I don’t make any claims. And sign ...
                        Then Vasilisa collected the remains of the last spirit and asked, looking away:
                        - And to whom?
                        The wolf looked suspiciously at Vasilisa, but held back his indignation and
                        just sighed.
                        - Write: received ... received from intact
                        Nemolyaka (he thought,
                        looked at the freak) ... Bricky and Otaman Hurricane.
                      10. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 07: 18
                        +8
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Of course not.
                        This is an ordinary gang.

                        and Kolchak didn’t head the gang? !!!
                        can tell kt and when he was elected ruler of Russia?
                      11. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 31
                        -6
                        He is the rightful ruler of Russia.
                        “They call me a dictator. So be it - I am not afraid of the word and remember that from ancient times the dictatorship has been a republican institution. As the Senate of ancient Rome appointed the dictator in the difficult moments of the state, so the Council of Ministers of the Russian state in the most difficult of the difficult moments of our state life, in meeting the public mood, appointed me as Supreme Ruler
                      12. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 11
                        +5
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        He is the rightful ruler of Russia.
                        “..The Council of Ministers of the Russian state in the most difficult of the difficult moments of our state life, in meeting the public mood, appointed me as Supreme Ruler

                        About the "legitimate" ruler Kolchak:
                        English uniform
                        Shoulder strap french
                        Japanese Tobacco -
                        Omsk ruler.
                      13. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 16: 18
                        -6
                        Bravo Bravo!
                        Excellent pussy.
                        You should be in such shamans.
                      14. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 50
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        -1
                        Bravo Bravo!
                        Excellent pussy.

                        In civilian, and even after all of Siberia sang it.
                      15. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 17: 00
                        -4
                        This is a very good argument.
                      16. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 17: 03
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        This is a very good argument.

                        Well, finally, our opinions coincided.
                      17. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 12: 54
                        +3
                        You don’t give it to us, you prove it to modern Russian courts that the gang shot Kolchak.
                      18. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 41
                        -3
                        The assassins of Kolchak were convicted and executed, like spies and enemies of the people.
                        The general management of the execution was carried out by the chairman of the Irkutsk provincial emergency commission Samuil Chudnovsky, the shooting team was led by the head of the garrison and at the same time the commandant of Irkutsk, Ivan Nikolaevich Bursak (Boris Yakovlevich Blatlinder).
                        They were sprayed, according to a court verdict tongue
                      19. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 56
                        +6
                        I do not ask what happened to these people. You answer in the case why no one disputes Kolchak’s sentence? The evidence is too good.
                      20. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 15: 06
                        -5
                        How can one dispute a murder without trial?
                        Chikatilo also said at the trial that he was "a red partisan and Stalin's heir, passing sentences on truants, poor students, painted girls recruited by the Assyrian mafia."
                        The admiral was killed by dirty shtetl stinkers, who also turned out to be Trotskyists.
                      21. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 21: 17
                        +4
                        Quote: EvilLion
                        You or fool around

                        I'm afraid I'm not fooling around, this is today's education
                      22. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 21: 16
                        +5
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Wow, these many people were killed, they were
                        Once again, do not make a fool of yourself; the Nuremberg tribunal tried them for the PMV? !!!
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        But Kolchak cannot be rehabilitated, because he was not convicted by the court

                        I apologize, are you really stupid or you just don’t know the story, from the word AT ALL? !!!

                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        And the opinion of Pitukhov, it has nothing to do with it.
                        this is your opinion, and not your knowledge of history and jurisprudence exclusively at the level of the Unified State Examination, and P-E-tukhov is the chairman of the Military College
                      23. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 October 2018 06: 34
                        -5
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        opinion of Pitukhov

                        "Lawyer", opinion is not a verdict of the state, it is just the words of a person. Don't give a damn about them.
                      24. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 07: 19
                        +6
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        opinion is not a state sentence

                        STATE refused rehabilitation
                      25. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 October 2018 11: 11
                        -1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        STATE refused rehabilitation

                        She DOESN’T NEED anyone, because he was killed by bandits without trial.
                        .
                        A man was killed in Moscow yesterday, does he need rehabilitation?
                      26. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 32
                        -4
                        In order to rehabilitate it is necessary to condemn, the victims of Chikatilo were also denied rehabilitation.
                      27. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 October 2018 06: 25
                        -6
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and for your information:
                        “The Supreme Court of Russia refused to rehabilitate Admiral Kolchak.

                        For your information: Kolchak Does not need in rehabilitation, shopping mall. NEVER and ANYONE was convicted. And never criminals are NOT recognized.

                        Do you need rehabilitation? No? So he doesn’t.
                        He was killed by CRIMINALLY criminals, even according to the "laws" that existed then.

                        He was destroyed by the skeleton of a foreign tourist:
                        "Do not spread any news about Kolchak, do not print absolutely nothing, but after us occupying Irkutsk send a strictly official telegram with an explanation that the local authorities before our arrival did so under the influence of ... the danger of White Guard conspiracies in Irkutsk. Lenin ".
                      28. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do you need rehabilitation? No? So he doesn’t.

                        Iron logic
                      29. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 October 2018 06: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Iron logic

                        , Moreover, it is undeniable by anyone: the Unconvicted is NOT Rehabilitated, for there is no reason-judgment.
                        Or do you think that, for example, you need to be rehabilitated from something? belay
                      30. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 12 October 2018 13: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Moreover, no one can be disputed: the Unconvicted is NOT Rehabilitated, because there is no reason-trial.
                        Or do you think that, for example, you need to be rehabilitated from something?

                        Yes, I don't even know what to call this your next “phenomenal” argument.
                      31. Skarpzd
                        Skarpzd 11 October 2018 02: 54
                        +4
                        Well, actually, this admiral flooded the floor of Siberia with blood. so much so that quite inert and rich Siberian villages rose up against him. a very good friend of mine once wrote his dissertation "In the Footsteps of the Chumai Uprising" and I helped to collect information as much as I could. in 1983, the participants and eyewitnesses of those events were still alive.
                      32. Rodokon
                        Rodokon 9 March 2019 20: 16
                        0
                        Bandit and terrorist KOL-chak - The werewolf in epaulets "fought against himself and his bandits"? It is a pity that he was simply killed - a death too easy for such an abomination - it was necessary to KOL into him aspen, as for evil spirits to drive.
                      33. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 02
                        +8
                        And in Siberia, the most evil dogs, as I heard, are still called Kolchak.
                        For half a year he managed to make anti-Bolshevik Siberia red.
                      34. Skarpzd
                        Skarpzd 11 October 2018 02: 59
                        +2
                        I agree. if it were not for the brainless activity of Kolchak’s arbitrariness, it would be very difficult to rock the Siberian hinterland.
                      35. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 36
                        -5
                        Siberian hinterland did not want
                        1) pay taxes
                        2) give soldiers to war
                        and wanted
                        1) rob trains
                        2) rob cities
                        Well, and what kind of power it will tolerate.
                        We must pay tribute to Kolchak, he reassured the turbulent human sea.
                        And the methods. Well there are excesses.
                      36. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 03
                        +5
                        Well, "not to pay taxes, not to give recruits" is a general requirement of peasants in general.

                        Siberia historically lived in the absence of serfdom and an abundance of resources with a small population, the descendants of those who arrived there in the era of initial development, who survived, put down five-wall log houses and take all the best places. Yes, and state. to exercise power there in order to withdraw the same taxes is somehow problematic at such distances. And vice versa, in the 19 century, European Russia is faced with a sharp increase in population and a decrease in its land supply.

                        Accordingly, everything suited the locals, initially the Bolsheviks could only be supported there by Stolypin migrants, whom the locals looked at as rogue, because they were rogue.

                        Kolchak reassured so that everything flared up.
                      37. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 32
                        -3
                        Reassured, reassured.
                        They stopped robbing the train, forced gangs of hard labor into the taiga and interrupted.
                        Well, the Bolsheviks eliminated the remains of this rebellion.
                        What can be claims to Kolchak in general?
                        The fact that with a strong hand put things in order in the rear?
                        Well, you know, that was his duty.
                        And so it would be throughout Russia.
                      38. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 11 October 2018 18: 04
                        +3
                        And the whites say that "the whites lost in Siberia without any strategic defeats from the Red Army." It turns out that if Kolchak destroyed anyone, it was himself ...
                      39. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 18: 18
                        -4
                        The bandits destroyed a lot and put things in order.
                      40. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 12 October 2018 04: 08
                        +1
                        If it was order, then the concepts of "chaos", "mess" in nature do not exist at all ... laughing
                      41. Boris55
                        Boris55 10 October 2018 17: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        but if someone (before the seventeenth year) spoke to him about politics, he would answer that he is not interested in politics, understands nothing in it, and believes that students are involved in politics,

                        Politics is not a Russian word and means poly - many teak - interests. If a person has at least a couple of convolutions, then this is already a lot of interests.

                        You've probably heard this expression: "If you are not involved in politics, then politics will take care of you." In other words: If you don't give a damn about your interests, then you will undoubtedly be the guide of strangers. "
                      42. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 03
                        -7
                        It was simply indecent for an officer before the revolution
                    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 16: 25
                      +3
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Different grades of shit (Admiral Kolchak)

                      addict etc. you really think his opinion means something
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 27
                        -9
                        In modern Russia, yes.
                        You will be in Irkutsk, lay flowers at the monument, I recommend.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 19
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        -1
                        In modern Russia, yes.

                        at any!
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 42
                        -5
                        She is alone with us.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 21: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        She is alone with us.

                        you have a split personality ?!
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        In modern Russia, yes.

                        then you have several Russia, then one, you already decide
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 23
                        -3
                        Do you have your own Russia, or what? Completely separate?
                      6. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 04
                        +1
                        Many would rather get something out of the wide legs, but in Russia this is not accepted in public.
                    3. marline
                      marline 10 October 2018 17: 02
                      +3
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Different grades of shit (Admiral Kolchak)

                      laughing laughing laughing
                      You would have watched fewer tearful films like "Admiral" and read more.
                      As for the phrase about promiscuity in the varieties of feces, it was uttered by one unknown pop at the beginning of the XNUMXs in a TV show dedicated to a meeting with the Tatu group.
                      And the original version: "I don't understand the shades of shit" - B.L. Pasternak, poet, writer and translator.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 04
                        -6
                        It was even Pasternak, the Nobel laureate, intimidated by the Communists, who quoted Admiral Kolchak.
                      2. marline
                        marline 10 October 2018 17: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        It was even Pasternak ... quoted Admiral Kolchak.

                        USE works wonders !!!
                        I repeat to you again, read the syllables - the phrase you quoted was first heard from an unknown cult minister in the early 2000s
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 15
                        -8
                        So you wrote "People's Daily"?
                        Name of an unknown worshiper?
                      4. marline
                        marline 10 October 2018 17: 18
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Name of an unknown worshiper?

                        Pop Athanasius
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 04
                        -4
                        And the last name? Coming?
                        We will search, write a qidul in the Russian Orthodox Church.
                      6. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 20
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        -1
                        It is even Parsnip

                        not treated sad
                      7. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 05
                        -3
                        Yes, he died a long time ago, why should he be treated
          2. Ural-4320
            Ural-4320 12 October 2018 11: 45
            +3
            Still, to remove illiteracy in such a huge country is worth a lot. And if we take into account that the opponents constantly put sticks in the wheels (which Central Asia alone is worth), the result is doubly valuable.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 10 October 2018 19: 42
          +8
          In the book of S. A. Vaupshasov, Hero of the Soviet Union, Colonel of State Security, published in the 1972 year (At alarming crossroads. Notes of the Chekist. M. 1972) it was written that during the Civil period they called Trotsky's adherents, and Lenin's supporters as Bolsheviks.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 27
            -4
            Quote: Aviator_
            it is written that during the Civil War they called the adherents of Trotsky, and the Bolsheviks the supporters of Lenin.


            But did they, adherents of Trotsky and Lenin and Trotsky and Lenin themselves, somehow fight each other, or at least separate fractions?
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 11 October 2018 18: 36
              +1
              We are talking about ordinary followers of these leaders, some cared about the world revolution, others were much more down to earth and were engaged in their own country. As for the discussions between Trotsky and Lenin, there were enough of them, despite the fact that their positions were significantly different - the head of the PBC and the head of the Council of People's Commissars.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 October 2018 06: 46
    -12
    Then spelling reform, thanks in large part to which (this fact It can not be denied) in a huge country illiteracy was eliminated as soon as possible

    One can deny, how did literacy help?

    And in the "shortest possible time" nothing was liquidated: the pre-revolutionary number of schools was restored only ten years later.
    And the problem of illiteracy in the army on the eve of the war was very acute.
    1. kvs207
      kvs207 10 October 2018 07: 01
      +11
      Is it possible in numbers? The number of schools and similar institutions until 1917 and, say in 1925?
      And illiteracy in the army, is that according to Chonkin?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 October 2018 08: 10
        -3
        Quote: kvs207
        Is it possible in numbers?

        Can! You can and should read to know.
        For example, the monograph “Educational potential of the Russian Empire” published by RAS Saprykina (M., 2009).
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 October 2018 09: 29
        +8
        Quote: kvs207
        Is it possible in numbers? The number of schools and similar institutions until 1917 and, say in 1925?
        And illiteracy in the army, is that according to Chonkin?

        Reforms in Russian spelling were not only under Lenin or Peter I, but also under Catherine II. Her companion, Countess Vorontsova-Dashkova, after consulting, replaced "" E UMLYAUT "" with "" Yo "!!! That is, she introduced a new letter. Many opposed this, but judge for yourself --- SEL and SEL, MEL and MEL ... And the French surnames, which we know as Richelieu and Depardieu, actually end in Ё !!! I will debunk another myth about this letter. It is believed that it is one in each word. But not so! For example, the words THREE STARS, FOUR-VEADED ... As well as names and proper names in Siberia with ... three E !!!
        By the way, in November of this year this letter will be 235 years old!
    2. alstr
      alstr 10 October 2018 07: 23
      +5
      Again cunning. The beginning of the fight against illiteracy - 19.06.1920/XNUMX/XNUMX
      "By 1924, the number of students (with an absolute decrease in the population) was brought almost to the level of 1914 (98%), the number of schools was only 83% of the pre-war level."
      Those. over 4 years, the number of students equaled the pre-war, and not over 10 years.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 October 2018 08: 28
        -8
        Quote: alstr
        Again cunning. The beginning of the fight against illiteracy - 19.06.1920/XNUMX/XNUMX

        Illiteracy again: already formed on November 9, 1917 State Education Commission, then during 1918-19, a number of decrees were adopted in this area.
        Quote: alstr
        to 1924 year, the number of students (with an absolute reduction in the population) was able to bring almost to the level of 1914 (98%)
        .
        Those. 7 years for growth has been lost. Those. without a VOR, the number of students in Russia (which was constantly growing before it) in 1924 would not be at the level of 1914, but at least 20% more.
        In schools in 1914-104 thousand
        .................... 1926 - 101 thousand (that is, only the royal schools have been restored)
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 10: 45
          +5
          first, what are the figures for student growth in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR
          second who could study in the Republic of Ingushetia and who in the USSR?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 October 2018 12: 33
            -7
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            first name the numbers student growth in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR

            First, learn by yourself. But for clarity: https://bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/46516.html
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            second who could study in the Republic of Ingushetia and who in the USSR?

            The second is all.
            1. marline
              marline 10 October 2018 13: 23
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              But for clarity: https://bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/46516.html

              And let's imagine this for clarity:
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 10 October 2018 13: 35
                0
                And this is for what year, by the way?
                1. marline
                  marline 10 October 2018 13: 41
                  +2
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  And this is for what year, by the way?

                  Source - Gickman and Marx "General Geographical and Statistical Pocket Atlas", St. Petersburg, 1908 edition.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 October 2018 13: 49
                    -1
                    It is clear, i.e. in 1907, at best, or even in pre-revolutionary times. But, nevertheless, it is curious.
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 15: 30
                    -3
                    According to the results of the 1920 census, 82% of young men were literate in the Red Army
                  3. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 October 2018 06: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: merlin
                    1908 edition

                    in 1908, 10 thousand schools were built. This is for clarity.
            2. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 14: 20
              +11
              Quote: Olgovich
              First, learn yourself

              Quote: Olgovich
              The second is all.

              that is, as always, a comparative analysis of ZERO, one blah blah and a crunch of French rolls
              Why do representatives of these very "buns" immediately jump off the topic as soon as you ask to show comparative figures? !!!!

              NUMBER OF STUDENTS

              Russian empire
              In Russia as a whole, by January 1, 1914, out of 8 students in primary and lower schools, about 902% of all students (i.e., 621 thousand people) were studying, in 82, 7300 people were studying in primary schools - total 1896 years, the increase in the number of students trained per year was 3 801 thousand people - orGrowth 332 562 students per year on average.

              Secondary school in the Republic of Ingushetia - in 1914 "in secondary general and special educational institutions - about 6%, in special secondary and lower schools - 3,2%" - a total of 9,2% of 8,9 million - 819 thousand students.



              the USSR
              in 1940, 34 thousand people studied in elementary, seven-year and secondary schools, of which 786 million were in grades 21-1 - the rest in the upper grades - they receive secondary education. + Another 4 thousand people receive special secondary education.
              Total analogue of the primary and lower schools of the Republic of Ingushetia - from 1920 to 1940 - an increase from 10 to 21 million - 11 million people over 20 years or an average annual increase of 550 thousand people.
              High school - 13 million + 0,9 million people (compare with 819 thousand in the Republic of Ingushetia).

              As you can see, not only is the rate of enrollment of the population higher than the educational system - the quality of this education is also improving - that is, if secondary education is a rarity in RI, then in the USSR this is already the norm ..

              HIGHER EDUCATION

              Regarding higher education by the number of students, unfortunately I have only static data

              Russian empire
              State universities in 1913-14 - 71379 people.
              Private universities - 52153 people.
              Total 123 thousand students.

              The dynamics of the number of teaching staff from 1998-99 to 1913-14 is 2458 to 4477 people, a 15-fold increase over 1,8 years. Accordingly, we can assume that the number of students has doubled, that is, for 15 years 60 thousand people, or an increase of 4 per year.

              the USSR
              if we start, for example, from 150 thousand in 1920 (a fantastic figure of course), then in 1940 we will get a total number of students of 812 thousand - and without external students - 585 thousand students. Total, 435 thousand for 20 years (excluding correspondence students) or an average annual increase of 22 thousand students.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 10 October 2018 14: 59
                -9
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                that is, as always, a comparative analysis of ZERO,


                you were given a link to the "comparative analysis", study. And the fact is that as a result of the October Maidan of the 20th century ISIS-Bolsheviks, the number of students in the 20s decreased.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 15: 11
                  +5
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  you were given a link to the "comparative analysis"

                  sorry for what they gave? !!!!!!
                  Are you really that the left chart from the left forum, is this a comparative analysis? !!!
                  I’m silent that one of the graphs was NEVER the number of students will be able to grow in a parabola NEVER
                  Moreover, for some reason, the graphs provide data on the number of students in the Republic of Ingushetia, including POLAND and the BALTIC
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 October 2018 15: 55
                    -9
                    Here, by the way, are the numbers from the SOVIET book.
                    For 1914/15 (within the borders of 1939) 106 thousand. schools, 7,9 million students, 231 thousand teachers.
                    For 1921/23, respectively, 89 thousand, 7,3 million, 223 thousand.
                    For 1927/28, 119 thousand, 11,5 million, 346 thousand. http://istmat.info/files/uploads/21310/narhoz_sssr_1958_kultura.pdf
                    If we recall that the indicators grew both in 1915 and 1916, then it is clearly seen what a monstrous blow to education was inflicted by the Bolshevik igilovites with their Maidan, pushing Russia back.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 16: 32
                      +5
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      If we recall that the indicators grew both in 1915 and 1916, then it is clearly seen what a monstrous blow to education was inflicted by the Bolshevik igilovites with their Maidan, pushing Russia back.

                      fool not treated
                      the democrats struck and destroyed, overthrowing the monarchy, and threw Russia into the civil war, but thanks to the Bolsheviks, you today live in a still independent state, but the democrats are trying
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 10 October 2018 16: 59
                        -7
                        these are your fantasies, and they, de-no, are not treated
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 32
                        +7
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        these are your fantasies

                        what are my fantasies ?!
                        not the democrats overthrew the king?
                        Yes, my friend, a victim of the exam!
                      3. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 38
                        -10
                        Yes, it’s you, my friend, the victim of the TV.
                        The Tsar was overthrown, or rather he himself denied, the rebellious workers and soldiers of Petrograd.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 18: 02
                        +3
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        The Tsar was overthrown, or rather he himself denied, the rebellious workers and soldiers of Petrograd.

                        fool February 23, 1917 in Petrograd, the revolution began. Nicholas II, who was at Headquarters in Mogilev on the evening of February 27, ordered General N.I. Ivanov, with reliable units (battalions of St. George cavaliers from the security of the Headquarters), echelons to move to Petrograd to restore order. To help him, several regiments of infantry and cavalry from the Western and Northern fronts were to be allocated. The tsar himself went to Petrograd, but not directly: through the stations Dno and Bologoe. Tsarist trains crossed the Nikolaev (now October) railway, but 200 km from the capital were stopped by rebel railroad workers. Returning back, the Tsar’s letter trains and his retinues proceeded to Pskov - to the headquarters of the Northern Front. Meanwhile, Ivanov’s detachment was also not allowed to rebel in Petrograd. Chief of Staff Headquarters General M.V. Alekseev and the commanders of the fronts of the regiment did not send him to help. Meanwhile, Alekseev sent telegrams to all the commanders of the fronts and fleets with a proposal to speak in favor or against the abdication of the tsar in favor of the heir during the regency of Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich. Almost all of them, except one, supported renunciation. Arriving in Pskov, the king learned that the army had turned his back on him.

                        On the night of March 2, members of the State Duma, the leader of the Octobrists A.I., arrived in Pskov. Guchkov and nationalists - V.V. Shulgin with the project of renunciation. But the king refused to sign it, saying that he could not part with his sick son. The tsar himself wrote the text of the abdication, in which, in violation of the Decree of Paul I on succession to the throne, he refused both for himself and for his son in favor of his brother Michael.
                      5. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 29
                        -2
                        Iiiiii? What do you mean by that?
                      6. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 11 October 2018 03: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Yes, it’s you, my friend, the victim of the TV.
                        The Tsar was overthrown, or rather he himself denied, the rebellious workers and soldiers of Petrograd.

                        Would you like to know in which book you read it or saw for yourself?
                      7. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 28
                        -4
                        You are not aware of the course of the February Maidan? Read the school textbook - this is your level
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 October 2018 06: 55
                    -2
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Are you really that the left chart from the left forum, is this a comparative analysis? !!!

                    The graphs are based on documented data.
                    You REFUTE it. The gut is thin? Yes, thin.
              2. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 01
                -5

                The rate of eradication of illiteracy in the Russian Empire
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 16: 38
                  +2
                  you can throw out this little pussy and know why ?!
                  the only correct data can be from 1897 since the census was carried out, by the way, as in 13, illiterate 27% and in 20 among men 52, and among women 74
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 40
                    -4
                    So this is the Soviet encyclopedia, do you propose to throw out everything Soviet?
                    In 1920, among Russian men in the Red Army, 82%.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 35
                      +3
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      0
                      So this is the Soviet encyclopedia, do you propose to throw out everything Soviet?

                      Can I indicate the publication? repeat Well, that would look in full
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 39
                        -4
                        Literacy // Great Soviet Encyclopedia ed. 2 T. 12 1952 p. 434
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 10 October 2018 18: 07
                        +10
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Literacy // Great Soviet Encyclopedia ed. 2 T. 12 1952 p. 434

                        And under the plate in the encyclopedia, you have not read anything else? And there is a summary.
                        I quote: "Thus, even according to tsarist statistics, who took for literacy who could write only his last name, on the eve of the First World War, every fourth recruit was not literate. "
                        For your part, this is elementary dishonesty.
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 14
                        -7
                        Like in the USSR, by the way.
                        He who was able to read and write was considered poorly literate.
                      4. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 10 October 2018 18: 22
                        +5
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        He who was able to read and write was considered poorly literate.

                        False, in the USSR, graduated from educational program, considered illiterate.
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 25
                        -8
                        Likbez is all bullshit, like everything with a scoop.
                        Finished, reported, forgot the same letter after a month and that's it.
                        I myself met the illiterate.
                      6. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 10 October 2018 21: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Ikbez is all bullshit, like everything with a scoop.
                        Finished, reported, forgot the same letter after a month and that's it.
                        I myself met the illiterate.

                        Do not la la, classes at the clinic were intended to teach you to read clear print and written fonts; make short notes necessary in life and official affairs; read and write integer and fractional numbers, percentages, understand diagrams and schemes; students were explained the basic questions of the construction of the Soviet state.
                        My mom’s aunt managed to finish only an educational program, but after him she worked in a printing house, and as a typesetter, and even as a proofreader, she read books until the last days, the only thing was that there was no calligraphic emphasis ..
                      7. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 20
                        -5
                        That is, in your opinion, the educational program was equal to 4 classes of central vocational schools?
                        By unsubscribing, probably yes, but it’s really funny.
                      8. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 24
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        That is, in your opinion, the educational program was equal to 4 classes of central vocational schools?
                        By unsubscribing, probably yes, but it’s really funny.

                        There is nothing funny. In the CPC taught only prayers, but to sign ..
                      9. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 16: 26
                        -3
                        Parish schools were established at church parishes. They were one and two year old. They taught the Law of God, reading, writing, and arithmetic. Two-year parish schools also studied history.

                        Literacy schools were elementary schools. They were subordinate to various departments or were administered by private individuals. At the end of the XNUMXth century, they were transferred to the Synod. Education in literacy schools lasted one or two years, taught reading, writing, basic rules of arithmetic and church singing.
                        Graduates were taken only in the Politburo
                        this is not a soviet institute
                      10. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Graduates were taken only in the Politburo
                        this is not a soviet institute

                        It’s a pity that you didn’t finish the Central School of Law, we would nominate you to the State Duma.
                      11. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 16: 55
                        -3
                        Only in the Politburo.
                      12. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 17: 01
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        0
                        Only in the Politburo.

                        The political bureau will not work. Marxism there must be known, but you have a seam with this ...
                      13. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 17: 03
                        -3
                        Brezhnev chtoli knew Marxism? I'm begging . Or Ponomarenko?
                      14. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 17: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        0
                        Brezhnev chtoli knew Marxism? I'm begging . Or Ponomarenko?

                        Now the time is different.
                      15. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 17: 08
                        -3
                        That's it.
                        Marxists in the country self-destructed after 1991.
                      16. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 12 October 2018 00: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Marxists in the country self-destructed after 1991

                        On the contrary, they just appeared, with which they study very well, look at the site
                        https://work-way.com/blog/

                        PS So: Take care of the budenovka
                      17. Simargl
                        Simargl 11 October 2018 08: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        the only thing that the calligraphic emphasis was not
                        Handwriting class to third can be calligraphic. Then it goes bad. Especially with doctors.
                        For example, I do not write beautifully, but if necessary, I can write in draft font, although this is not professional, I filled my hand in due time.
                        So handwriting is not a sign of literacy.
                      18. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 11 October 2018 02: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        ..... I myself met the illiterate.
                        This article has already been written about such meetings 2 times. Are you this? Or your changer did not read the previous one? A problem!
                      19. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 34
                        -4
                        When it seems you need to be baptized, Reptiloid.
                        But I didn’t see a single lover of communism and the USSR in BUSINESS. I saw it for money, all sorts of political leaders. But there is no money.
                        And no one has seen.
                        Neither in 1991, nor later.
                      20. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 11 October 2018 21: 52
                        +4
                        I well remember when you, Koshnitsa, only appeared here ---- it’s kind of like a young guy. And then it’s getting older and older, more and more personal memories ..... Are you already 100 years old or more?
                        Such a phenomenon. It’s very interesting where they weren’t ...... But still the training manual has not been finalized. BECAUSE, not only with you.
                      21. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 22: 01
                        -5
                        Great experience, but any personal experience is finite.
                        No more.
                        I haven’t been to so many places.
                        And I won’t visit anymore.
                        Trolls on training manuals, they are also finite, but even if such trolls are there, then do not be afraid of them.
                      22. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 October 2018 06: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Like in the USSR, by the way.
                        He who was able to read and write was considered poorly literate.

                        You are NOT right: with the so-called. "census" of 1939 were considered literate those who knew how ... to sign. My granddaughter, three years old, can ...
                      23. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 October 2018 15: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        with the so-called "census" of 1939, those who knew how to ... sign

                        You can link to the source
                      24. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 30
                        -1
                        And what doesn’t suit you? would you explain your thoughts?
                      25. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 21: 08
                        +5
                        so the next time you cheat, keep in mind that we are not in tsarist Russia and we can write not only our last name
                        read the text carefully UNDER THE TABLE
                        as well as the SECOND table
                      26. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 18
                        -7
                        I see a significant increase in the literacy among conscripts, and everything else is idle inventions of commentators.
                      27. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 07: 20
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        I see a serious increase in literacy among draftees

                        Have you learned to write your surname? then yes seriously
                      28. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 59
                        -4
                        That's enough.
                        The army will learn to shoot, dig, attack, crumble, work with a bayonet and a butt.
                        In the Red Army there they were engaged in more political literacy, therefore they did not know how to do such things.
                      29. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        The army will learn to shoot, dig, attack, crumble, work with a bayonet and a butt.


                        In RIA, by the way, there was compulsory literacy (for illiterates)
                      30. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 12: 53
                        -2
                        It's true.
                        82% of Russians in the Red Army were literate.
                      31. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 32
                        +3
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        In RIA, by the way, there was compulsory literacy (for illiterates)

                        Yes, so that the conscripts could walk in leg and distinguish the left from the right, they tied hay to their left leg, straw to their right and then commanded; "Hay! -Straw !, Hay! -Straw! ...", instead of "Left-Right ..." or "Aty-two .."
                      32. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 16: 48
                        -3
                        What interesting fantasies do you have? Will you please anything else?
                      33. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 October 2018 16: 57
                        +3
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        -2
                        What interesting fantasies do you have? Will you please anything else?

                        This is not a fantasy, it was my grandfather telling me, he waved German from bell to bell.
                      34. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 34
                        -1
                        And what is "cheating"? Your "literacy", as I can see, lies in the ability to copy and paste pictures and quotes, but it would be nice if you also somehow independently explain your thoughts.
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 02
                    -4
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    the only correct data can be from 1897 since the census was conducted


                    The Ministry of War collected statistics among draftees, and even published it (you can find it on the network if you wish), i.e. these numbers are just the most correct.

                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    By the way, as in the 13th year, illiterate 27% and in 20 among men 52, and among women 74


                    Easy. 27% of men are 21 years old. And 52% among men in 1920, including the elderly and preschoolers.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 17: 34
                      +5
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Ministry of War collects statistics among draftees

                      oh yeah oh yeah sampling, it’s not funny from such statistics
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Easy. 27% of men are 21 years old. And 52% among men in 1920, including the elderly and preschoolers.

                      that is, initially in the year 13 you overestimate the percentage of literate yes you are a fraudster
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 45
                        -5
                        Tovarisch, didn’t you confuse anything for an hour ??
                        If you are so "not sharp" (let's say) that you do not immediately understand what they are writing to you, then you should not throw it from a sore head to a healthy one.
                        Literacy of conscripts is a separate indicator that well characterizes literacy and development trends thereof among young people.
                        What else is not clear to you?
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 16 October 2018 14: 16
                  +1
                  It remains to find out who was considered literate under the tsar-priest. One who could read and write his name. To this level, the Bolsheviks taught adults. And the children brought to a completely different.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 16 October 2018 15: 30
                    -2
                    Well, and how are you doing? Did the USSR help it survive? Khe khe ...
                    1. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 17 October 2018 14: 33
                      0
                      Did the successes of tsarist Russia help to survive?
                      All literate quickly figured out the political situation and supported the king? Or vice versa: the darkest peasantry did not want to return the old power by all means?
                      If the tsar’s father was so jealous of his people that no one would fight for him, then why the hell did the Stalinist youth pearl to the front? No one in the trenches whined about dirt, death, and hunger. And no one wanted to defeat their power.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 17 October 2018 14: 39
                        -1
                        There were no traitors in the WWII Russian, except for the Bolsheviks.
                        There were Ukrainian battalions, there were Georgian, Jews helped the Germans, but not a single person among the Russians was traitors. Well, among the Russian Bolsheviks there was a gulkin nose.
                        Quote: mmaxx
                        oh why the hell did the Stalinist youth pearl to the front?

                        yeah, pearl. 150 thousand in the Red Army only for desertion shot, I’m not talking about the policemen.
                        99% of all who collaborated with the Germans were Stalin's citizens, khe-khe ..
                      2. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 18 October 2018 15: 37
                        +1
                        The statistics of desertions in the Russian army of the WWI are very large. Even very large statistics of desertion in the beautiful army that defeated Napoleon. They even fled, scary to say, to the Prussian army famous for stick discipline.
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 15: 57
                        -2
                        Yes, they fled anywhere, and also fled from other armies to Russia.
                        Even from the American army in the DPRK, separate psychos flee.
                        And so, like the Red Army ran, this is generally a song.
                        There the number of bayonets on the boiler was less than the number of deserters laughing
                    2. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 17 October 2018 14: 47
                      0
                      And I will not argue that the Bolsheviks adopted the tsarist reform of Orforgaphia conceived. And I will not argue that the Bolsheviks applied the plan to eliminate illiteracy inherited from the tsarist government. But. The tsarist authorities had many good plans. But there was absolutely no will to embody them. And the top authorities did not have one opinion on this part. Unlike the Bolshevik. It is enough to read the so-called. the Frunze Doctrine. It clearly states that only a competent fighter who understands that he is defending his country can defend his country well. The Bolsheviks caught up with their literate youth in the village for educational program. And her motivation was ideological. Could the tsarist government do the same? Maybe children would be taught somehow. But adults never.
                      The best, in my opinion, assessment of Soviet education gave Manstein. He wrote in his memoirs that in Russia there have never been problems with the deployment of headquarters. In the seediest village, the best and biggest house was the school. In which they (the Germans) were headquartered. Nehren untermenscham learn something.
                      And the fact that the Bolsheviks destroyed something there and did not give plans to come true .... Complete nonsense. Not the Bolsheviks got involved in what’s not necessary war for the Russian people. And they did not fall off responsibility when it was necessary to decide: either-or. And they did not destroy the country, but the good democrats, to which the king-father brought the country.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 17 October 2018 14: 50
                        0
                        Not the Bolsheviks, but their masters began the First World War.
                        German Kaiser and Austrian Franz Joseph.
                        But the Bolsheviks destroyed the country, and the Bolsheviks surrendered to Germany and they started a civil war.
                        With them, and demand.
                      2. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 17 October 2018 14: 55
                        +1
                        Why the hell did the Bolsheviks have "their masters" ?? 7 No one has ever presented evidence that the Bolsheviks made a revolution with someone else's money. I ask you not to present newspaper fables.
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 15: 46
                        -2
                        Only the Boss can let his servant through his territory during World War II.
                        There is no need to prove anything, he was driving in a sealed carriage, go out into the woods.
                        Treason to the Motherland.
                        The decision on detention and even liquidation is made by the commander of any patrol or patrol.
                      4. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 17 October 2018 14: 57
                        +1
                        Interestingly, the masters of all countries started the war. And what did the tsar-father forget there? Was he also with the owners? Or how?
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 15: 47
                        -2
                        Russia was attacked in 1914, as was the USSR in 1941.
                        Therefore, the war was called the Second World War.
                        With dark Teutonic power, with a damned horde ...
                        Words from a song stolen by the communists.
                      6. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 17 October 2018 14: 54
                        +1
                        I will add that the one who made the case is the one who made it. And the one who conceived everything well and did nothing, he made only a good plan and that’s all.
                        In general, in my life I see that everything in the world was done by bad people. As soon as someone starts to do something, he immediately becomes bad. He does everything wrong, he makes a bunch of good people strain, work, etc. And the one who did nothing and, especially, does nothing - he is always good. He just has nothing to show.
                      7. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 15: 48
                        -2
                        About building communism?
                        In the middle of nowhere.
                      8. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 05
                        0
                        The morons were among the Communists.
                        If you tease me as a lover of the Communists, then this is in vain. Not a fan. I just try to think in as objective categories as possible.
                        I believe that it was better for Russia to remain a monarchy. But the monarch and the whole elite at that time were so stupid that they lost everything. As in 1991. Any revolution pushes the country far back. And then he throws it forward with the same firewood. All this is reflected in the skin of ordinary people. And all because when it was necessary the top of nichrome did not.
                      9. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 08
                        0
                        In general, regarding the tops. And ours including. Churchill's wording is very suitable. They will always find the only right solution before trying all the others. True, sometimes this is not found.
                      10. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 16: 15
                        -2
                        Quote: mmaxx
                        It clearly states that only a competent fighter who understands that he is defending his country can defend his country well.

                        Collective farm slavery, a ban on visiting churches, famine and poverty, powerlessness and extrajudicial executions?
                        Well, and the disaster of 1941 from where the legs grow.
                      11. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 00
                        0
                        And the victory in 1945 from there.
                      12. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 20 October 2018 12: 37
                        -1
                        Were there any victories in Russia in a thousand years?
                        But to lay most of the male population, but there was no such victory.
              3. Olgovich
                Olgovich 11 October 2018 06: 53
                -2
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                that is, as always, a comparative analysis of ZERO, one blah blah and a crunch of French rolls
                Well, why do the representatives of these very "buns" immediately jump off the topic as soon as you ask to show comparative figures ?!

                Peskohrusty given all numbers.

                Graph-take a look: pace (if available, WHAT it is) student growth over the years after 1905 is much higher than before and no lower than conscientious ones.
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                Total 123 thousand students.

                Read the scientist Saprykin.

                PS links, where are the numbers? Or are you ... an author? lol
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 10 October 2018 10: 59
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          In schools in 1914-104 thousand
          .................... 1926 - 101 thousand (that is, only the royal schools have been restored)

          Again, the cunning of the Khrustobulichnik - schools of the Polish Tsarist, GKF, territories occupied by Poland, territories that became the Baltic states, territories occupied by Romania, and so on. you take into account for 1914, but not for 1926.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 October 2018 12: 19
            -5
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Again, the cunning of the Khrustobulichnik - schools of the Polish Tsarist, GKF, territories occupied by Poland, territories that became the Baltic states, territories occupied by Romania, and so on. you take into account for 1914, but not for 1926.

            Sandcastle ignorance again: in Russia there were more 130 thousand schools.
            104 thousand schools are within the borders of the USSR on 1914 g
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 12: 28
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              104 thousand schools are

              and how many students? repeat
            2. marline
              marline 10 October 2018 13: 28
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Sandcastle ignorance again: in Russia there were more 130 thousand schools.
              104 thousand schools are within the borders of the USSR on 1914 g

              Forgive my ignorance, but where are the numbers from?
              In Rashin's “Population of Russia for 100 years (1813 - 1913)” on 1914 it is indicated: the number of schools - 80801; the number of students - 5942,1 thousand people
              Primary, naturally.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 10 October 2018 13: 50
                +2
                Quote: merlin
                In Rashin's "Population of Russia for 100 years (1813 - 1913)" for 1914 it is indicated: the number of schools


                MNP schools, forgot to add. There were at least parish schools
                1. marline
                  marline 10 October 2018 14: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  MNP schools, forgot to add. There were at least parish schools

                  Right I forgot about the parish. Thanks.
            3. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 10 October 2018 21: 22
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Again the ignorance of sand crust: in Russia there were more than 130 thousand schools.
              104 thousand schools are within the borders of the USSR on 1914 g

              For the ignorant bulkhrust, I recall By 1914, in the Russian Empire (the borders were even slightly wider than the USSR model of the 20-30s), there were 123 primary schools (of which 745 were parish) with a term of study of 40530 years. Secondary education was represented: 4 gymnasium with a term of study of 121 years, 4 real and technical schools with a term of study of 343 years and 6 gymnasiums with a term of study of 1314 years. Moreover, the poor or non-passing class above the primary educational institutions had virtually no chance to rise. And yes, there was no succession between primary and secondary schools, you either go to primary school, or pass exams in gymnasium / real school / gymnasium.
              Yes, I also want to remind you that the von Kaufmann project on universal (only universal, not free) primary education was procrastinated from 1906 to 1912, but was eventually rejected.
              In the USSR, the principle of universal compulsory secondary education was postulated, the majority of schools in cities and a significant number in villages had a 1923-year education period since 7, and most importantly there was continuity between primary and secondary schools, even if somewhere there was only a four-year-old student had the right to continue education in seven years.
              So 108 thousand Soviet schools with 10 million students in 1926 (11,5 million students by 1928) will be more than 125 thousand imperial schools with 7 million students in 1914.
              And as far as professional and higher education is concerned, by the middle of the 30s of the USSR, according to these indicators, RI was winged like a sheep.
              Well, also, as a poisoned "halberd" in the back of the autocratic education system - (from 1923 to 1939) in the USSR, in addition to children in schools, more than 50 million illiterate people and about 40 million illiterate people of different kinds studied in various educational institutions and courses. ages, which eventually made it possible to raise the bar of "able to read and write" from a pitiful 30-40% in 1913 to almost 90% civilized in 1939.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 11 October 2018 08: 58
                -1
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                For the ignorant bulkhrust I remind you K 1914 In the year of the Russian Empire (the borders are even slightly wider than the USSR model of 20-30), there were 123 primary educational institutions (

                I’m teaching an ignoramus-sandblast: Russia lived until 1917, when about 140 thousand schools were already populated in it (DIS S. Volkov)
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Moreover, the poor or non-passing above the primary educational institutions practically had no chance to rise

                lies, empty chatter.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Yes, I also want to remind you that the von Kaufmann project on universal (only universal, not free) primary education was procrastinated from 1906 to 1912, but was eventually rejected.

                Since 1908, Russia has ACTUALLY introduced universal free primary education
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                In the USSR, the principle of universal compulsory secondary education was postulated since 1923

                Introduction to universal secondary education in Russia in 1918
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                So 108 thousand Soviet schools with 10 million students in 1926 (11,5 million students by 1928) will be more than 125 thousand imperial schools with 7 million students in 1914.

                101 thousand schools by 1926, i.e. not even a single school has not been built and not even restored all the royal. Moreover, in Russia
                .
                Those. the country has lost TENS of thousands of undeveloped schools and millions of students!

                At the same time, I remind you, ALL teachers under the Bolsheviks are learned in the Empire, Swiss foreign tourists did NOT bring them from their Swiss.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                And as far as professional and higher education is concerned, by the middle of the 30s of the USSR, according to these indicators, RI was winged like a sheep.

                Myself: ALL teachers in the Sov. Universities, methods-these are people learned by the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, and suffered irreparable losses as a result of war and repression. And that is a wonderful result, showing how huge the potential of Russia was, that even the ignoramuses in power did not destroy it (since 1917).
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Well, also, as a poisoned "halberd" in the back of the autocratic education system - (from 1923 to 1939) in the USSR, in addition to children in schools, more than 50 million illiterate people and about 40 million illiterate people of different kinds studied in various educational institutions and courses. ages, which eventually made it possible to raise the bar of "able to read and write" from a pitiful 30-40% in 1913 to almost 90% civilized in 1939.

                You throw these false agitations in 1970. The census of 1937, 62 521 486 illiterate citizens (more than 50%) and 61 333 867 literate.
                In 90% of the "literate" census of 39 g, those who knew how to ... sign!
                . 4 January 1957 year there was a decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU "On the elimination of illiteracy among the population, "
                Resolution of the Bureau of the CPSU Central Committee for the RSFSR and the Council of Ministers of August 27 1962 year "On the completion of the elimination of illiteracy and semi-literacy in the RSFSR." And again, one hundred percent result did not work.

                Lying wrestlers ...
              2. Gopnik
                Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 43
                -1
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                or those who didn’t pass above the primary educational institutions had practically no chance to rise


                Who are these "non-passing through the estate" ???

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Yes, I also want to remind you that the von Kaufmann project on universal (only universal, not free) primary education


                Tovarisch, in RI primary education was free.

                You would at least have pulled up elementary knowledge before writing nonsense.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 10 October 2018 11: 01
      +7
      This is in terms of the scale of the need for educated, it was acute, despite the fact that on the eve of the War, those born in 1917 were already 23-24 years old and all of them without exception had at least a primary education. And this, yes, was not enough, maybe even more than in the tsarist army of 1914, when it was simply not necessary to operate such a large amount of complex equipment and the overwhelming majority of the soldiers belonged to the same category of "private with a rifle", and in order to teach a person to walk in formation, to handle a primitive rifle, to stand guard and dig trenches, he does not even need to know "ABC".

      The Bolsheviks were bastards, they built some kind of tanks, and guns, for which the operating instructions in the form of not the thinnest books, but not anyhow, but with strange formulas. The Russian soldier does not need it, he added pieces to the three-line, yelled "Hurray", and ran into the attack, they dealt with this under Ivan the Terrible, and under Suvorov, and under Kutuzov ... When will they start banning you. ..

      And so, of course, it would be fun. And in my first grade, many barely read the syllables, and if you also explain why one word is written "e", and the other "yat" ... Whoever is familiar with Tatar, he knows what is there in the alphabet to Cyrillic 6 letters are added, the most raging "Tatar e", I don't have it on the keyboard, but it was often called that, it is written as an inverted "e", this is a polar fox of some kind, if a person does not catch sound differences, then he simply does not know , where "e" is normal and where is inverted. And "yat" is not even different sounds ... As in English, where half of the words are, in fact, hieroglyphs that do not obey any rules.

      Now come to work after 8 classes, you'll be as illiterate as before the war after 4's.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 13: 50
        -3
        The Russian army did not have its own guns?
        Do you want to make a fool of yourself? Well, to be honest?
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 10 October 2018 14: 32
          +3
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          The Russian army did not have its own guns?

          Yeah, and tanks! Don’t you know how Russian famously broke through the Kaiser defense on their tanks? Learn materiel, ignoramus! laughing
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 14: 43
            -3
            So in the German army until the 1918 year there were no tanks. Well, stupid !!!
            And in WWII, even Romanians produced tanks.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 10 October 2018 14: 55
              +5
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              So in the German army until the 19188 year there were no tanks. Well, stupid !!!

              A little less dumb than ours, because they did it all the same. But tanks are so, the most obvious illustration, because with everything else, RI was no better.
              Artillery - 11 700 guns, Germany - 76 000
              Aircraft - 3 500, Germany - 47 300
              Cars - 20 000, Germany - 65 000
              Artillery shells - 67 million shots, Germany - 306 million shots
              Machine guns - 28 000, Germany - 280 000
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 10 October 2018 15: 03
                -4
                Quote: Alex_59
                A little less dumb than ours, because they did it all the same.


                And why are your, dey, so stupid that they didn’t do tanks in 1918? You look, and you wouldn’t lose to the Germans, Finns, Balts, Poles, etc., etc., to whom the Bolsheviks merged there?

                Quote: Alex_59
                Artillery - 11 700 guns, Germany - 76 000
                Aircraft - 3 500, Germany - 47 300
                Cars - 20 000, Germany - 65 000
                Artillery shells - 67 million shots, Germany - 306 million shots
                Machine guns - 28 000, Germany - 280 000


                For greater intensity, you compare the figures at the end of 1918 for Germany with Russia, not at the end of 1917, but generally at 1914.
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 10 October 2018 15: 27
                  +4
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  And why are your, dey, so stupid that they didn’t do tanks in 1918? You look, and you wouldn’t lose to the Germans, Finns, Balts, Poles, etc., etc., to whom the Bolsheviks merged there?

                  Ours is the Russian people. Mine at least. Without dividing into red and white. As for the 1918 of the year, they did not make tanks for the simple reason that the previous authorities brought the country to collapse as a result of which there were two revolutions and a civil war that seriously undermined the already weak industry. That is why our (Russian people) overcame the devastation for several years, and only then tanks and planes went.
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  For greater intensity, you compare the figures at the end of 1918 for Germany with Russia, not at the end of 1917, but generally at 1914.

                  You can compare this, but there are no ready-made numbers for a number of positions at hand. If you have it, lay it out and see. Only I assume that the situation will not be much different. Russia is clearly not in the lead. Unlike WWII.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 15: 33
                    -5
                    Quote: EvilLion
                    The same aircraft at the beginning of the WWII in the Russian army at the beginning of the WWII were EMNIP pieces of 500,

                    And in other countries of the world it was even less.
                    And the Romanians mastered tank building.
                    what is the tag?
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 October 2018 15: 48
                    -3
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    Mine at least. Without dividing into red and white. As for 1918, tanks weren’t made for the simple reason that previous authorities brought the country to collapse


                    So why did our (Russians) in 1916 and 1917 (before the October Maidan) guns, rifles and machine guns did more than yours (Bolsheviks) in 1918? Why did the factories work in 1916-17, and how did the Bolsheviks come to power?


                    Quote: Alex_59
                    You can compare it, but there are no ready-made numbers for a number of positions at hand


                    If there are no numbers, then there is no need to cheat. In 1918, Germany riveted as much weapons as at the beginning of the war for a couple of years did not.

                    Quote: Alex_59
                    Only I assume that the situation will not be much different. Russia is clearly not in the lead


                    And in vain. Russia until February 1917 is exactly what is in the lead, after Germany.

                    Quote: Alex_59
                    Unlike WWII.


                    Seriously? For some positions of the USSR in WWII, far from leaders
                    1. Alex_59
                      Alex_59 10 October 2018 16: 05
                      +5
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      So why did our (Russians) in 1916 and 1917 (before the October Maidan) guns, rifles and machine guns did more than yours (Bolsheviks) in 1918?

                      I'm too lazy to figure out who is "your" and who is "our" in your complex worldview, write more clearly. request
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      And in vain. Russia until February 1917 is exactly what is in the lead, after Germany.
                      If you claim that you were a leader, then obviously your knowledge is based on the figures for the annual production of all types of weapons. Hope to see these numbers. Otherwise, chatter. And by the way, where does February 1917 come from? What happened in February? The Bolsheviks came to power?
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      For some positions of the USSR in WWII, far from leaders

                      Well, yes, on the construction of aircraft carriers in deep out))) It's a shame, annoying, but okay))))
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      During 1918, Germany riveted as much weapons as at the beginning of the war for a couple of years did not.

                      How do you know that? Who told you?
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 10 October 2018 18: 35
                        +3
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        I already wrote to you - ours are Russians, and yours are Bolsheviks

                        Let’s you not decide for me whom I consider my own, okay?
                        Exactly, on them. Well, for example
                        the link is dead. Try again )
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Well, you yourself wrote when RI

                        Well then it’s not exactly written, a typo. The production figures given above are given for the entire war period, i.e. for Russia includes the period before it emerged from the war. So not only RI.
                        and in February, Russia overthrew the monarchy
                        and what happened to industry after that? Suddenly got up?
                        with the participation including and the Bolsheviks, yes.
                        Well, if reading Swiss newspapers is "with participation", then probably yes. But I personally think that the phrase "with participation" implies something more than exploring the beauty of Switzerland.
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        For example, in the production of gunpowder and explosives, in the production of trucks, armored personnel carriers, small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, jet aircraft, radar, and so on.
                        We won.
                      3. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        the link is dead. Try again )


                        Let's better you try. Let's see your numbers, you are not out of nowhere, I hope, draw conclusions.

                        Quote: Alex_59
                        and what happened to industry after that? Suddenly got up?


                        She rose sharply after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. And before that, the growth rate only slowed down, due to the fact that the Bolsheviks distracted workers to strikes and rallies.

                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Well, if reading Swiss newspapers is "with participation", then probably yes. But I personally think that the phrase "with participation" implies something more than exploring the beauty of Switzerland.


                        You are simply illiterate. In Switzerland, the top of the Bolsheviks sat out, party members remained at a lower rank in Russia and participated, to the extent possible, in the revolutionary struggle.

                        Quote: Alex_59
                        We won.


                        Yes, as in 1MB, in 2MB the anti-German coalition won.
                    2. EvilLion
                      EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 10
                      +4
                      Because they got up, you are such a muddle, under the Provisional Government, when the last remnants of the state. The authorities covered themselves with a copper basin.

                      In the WWII of the USSR in terms of volume of production in the 2-th place, which is just as surprising as if the negroes from the CARs, whose names nobody knows, would take the 2-second place at the chess competition. That was not, and suddenly the leaders.

                      At the same time, some positions were apparently coordinated with the United States. They sent us a little tank, but a lot of trucks, airplanes, gunpowder and aviation gasoline.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 12: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: EvilLion
                        Because they got up, you are such a muddle, under the Provisional Government, when the last remnants of the state. The authorities covered themselves with a copper basin.


                        That you are a nonsense illiterate. Factories rose up under the Bolsheviks; at the time of the interim war, they somehow worked

                        Quote: EvilLion
                        In WWII of the USSR in terms of production of water in second place


                        Nonsense, are you aware that in the 2nd World War II the USSR released less gunpowder than Germany, and a third of the gunpowder in the shells was allied supplies? It’s just an elementary and necessary thing for the war - gunpowder, and if you take any hi-tech, such as radar or jet aircraft, then the USSR was not standing next to the leaders.
                      2. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 13
                        +2
                        I just told you a fool about gunpowder.
                        Radars in the USSR were at least fundamentally, in the tsarist army there was nothing but a three-ruler, and there were no three-inch ones. And there weren’t enough of them, so all over the world they bought even the most non-standard.

                        And the factories. Well, this one got up in August of 17, and that one in January of 18. ZIL was also closed relatively recently, although it was in a deep crisis from the 1980 for objective reasons, primarily due to the lack of competitive products and a stupid location right in the city, usually such facilities are located in a separate industrial zone.

                        The plant can simply stand up along the production chain several months after the cessation of the initial supply of raw materials. One was cut off at the time of the VP, and stood up on the exhaustion of reserves already under the Bolsheviks.
                      3. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 13: 22
                        -2
                        You, at least read books, so as not to disgrace. If you don’t know something, it doesn’t mean that it “didn’t exist”.
                        Everything was "in principle" in RI. But in the USSR with the same armored personnel carriers and self-propelled guns (howitzers on a self-propelled gun carriage) and ZSU serially failed. And they went on Lend-Lease gunpowder, otherwise they would have run with a 19th century rifle in the attack.

                        Quote: EvilLion
                        The plant can simply stand up along the production chain several months after the cessation of the initial supply of raw materials. One was cut off at the time of the VP, and stood up on the exhaustion of reserves already under the Bolsheviks.


                        No need for Baltology. The factories that worked and are being built under the EaP under the Bolsheviks simply stood up, and the workers were fired.
                      4. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 14: 07
                        +2
                        The self-propelled guns in WWII were actually in a semi-infectious state. At the same time, functionally these self-propelled guns do not differ from towed guns.

                        The same Hummel in the amount of 724 pieces can hardly be considered at all as any significant factor in the war, 6 '' howitzers were built in thousands.

                        Armored personnel carriers, by the way, too. Then 80% of the army is the usual walking arrows. At that time, no one had any armored personnel carriers.

                        That is, an awareness of the problem, and what would be nice to do, but when you have ordinary linear tanks produced and burned in thousands, it's just not up to it.

                        Moreover, all these are auxiliary types of weapons that are not related to hi-tech. After all, infantry can also be transported in a truck, and you can’t storm fortifications without tanks. Hi-tech is an IS-2, and the Allies haven’t got anything like it.
                      5. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 11 October 2018 16: 53
                        -2
                        Quote: EvilLion
                        Self-propelled guns in WWII were actually in a semi-infectious state ...

                        The same Hummel in the amount of 724 pcs can hardly be considered at all


                        Aha, "grapes are green". Can you consider Vespa? That was why our tankers in the TA grieved that the towed artillery lagged behind forever, like the "motorized infantry", and gladly used the trophy vespes and hummels.

                        Quote: EvilLion
                        Hi-tech is an IS-2,


                        There was nothing "high-tech" (in the real sense of the word) in the IS-2. All his plus - armor and thicker cannon. With many shortcomings - the quality of cast armor is so-so, "blind" for a mechanized drive (which did not have its own hatch), a low rate of fire with low ammunition, because they could not put a 100-mm gun there (although they initially wanted to)
                      6. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 15: 51
                        -3
                        three-inch, in fact, until 1940 released !!!!
                    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 22: 51
                      +4
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      And in vain. Russia until February 1917 is exactly what is in the lead, after Germany.

                      in leaders for what and please in comparative numbers
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 11 October 2018 02: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        And in vain. Russia until February 1917 is exactly what is in the lead, after Germany.

                        in leaders for what and please in comparative numbers

                        I won’t give a number, I’ll write from memory ----- solely on the removal of capital from the country !! That's what!
                  3. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 05
                    +2
                    Well, before the revolution there everything matured even earlier. Just burst through at this very moment.
            2. BAI
              BAI 10 October 2018 16: 43
              +5
              So in the German army until the 1918 year there were no tanks. Well, stupid !!!


              Photo: General Photographic Agency / Getty Images, snapshot 1917
              But this A7V did not know what would appear only in a year.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 16: 52
                -3
                This is a prototype, judging by the foliage. This is the Mainz prototype, studded with plywood.
                In RI, the first prototypes in general in 1915 were released.
                1. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 11
                  +2
                  Porokhovshchikov's "all-terrain vehicle" or what?
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 19: 43
                    -4
                    There were a dozen of them there.
                    And Porokhovshchikova and Tsar-Tank and so on.
                    In RI, another topic was being actively developed, more interesting at that time.
                    1. EvilLion
                      EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 16
                      +2
                      Darling, do you even know what a product of a sick imagination, Tsar-Tank?

                      Another topic, yeah. And for some reason the whole world does not know any other topic and has actually been sitting on the Renault FT-100 scheme for 17 years. And this is what is called "classic layout". Actually, it can be considered the first tank, not even the English rhombuses.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 02
                        -4
                        No need to promote homosexuality, young man.
                        Shame on you?
                        This is a topvar!
                2. Alf
                  Alf 10 October 2018 21: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  This is the Mainz prototype, studded with plywood.

                  Plywood fastened with rivets? The heads are visible from here.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 51
                    -3
                    Are you sure that the photo of the 16th year, not 18?
                    That's it ...
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 10 October 2018 22: 17
                      +2
                      -1
                      This is a prototype, judging by the foliage. This is the Mainz prototype, studded with plywood.
                      In RI, the first prototypes in general in 1915 were released.

                      Your words ?
                      Are you claiming it is a plywood prototype? You are wrong, this is easily refuted by the first glance at the photo.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 22: 22
                        -4
                        Light tanks

                        All-terrain vehicle, all-terrain vehicle No. 2


                        Lesser Coat of Arms of Russian Empire.svg
                        Medium tanks

                        Tank Rybinsk plant

                        Heavy tanks

                        Mendeleev’s tank, Tsar tank, Earth battleship SAU Drizhenko Turtle Machine for the destruction of fortresses “Wallpaper”

                        Armored tractor

                        Astrakhan, Gulkevich Armored Tractor, Bullock-Lombard, self-propelled guns "Bullock-Lombard", Walter, Colonel Silent (Clayton)
                        Everything is in the public domain
                      2. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 32
                        +1
                        You see, girl, the idea of ​​putting several people under the armor and giving a cannon goes back to the days when there were no internal combustion engines. Lenardo Da Vinci also designed "tanks". I would not be surprised if there were 2 such ideas in every European country.

                        Mendeleev’s tank can still be considered as a technically well-developed military curiosity, while Mendeleev was not a military, and could not be a specialist in railway transport, his tank simply couldn’t be delivered anywhere technically. Even now, the transportation of goods of more than 100 tons, often oversized, is quite rare, and each time a specially performed complex technical operation.

                        That's just from an idea to even primitive and for us, having the aftertaste of the completely absurd British rhombuses produced in series, a huge distance. In fact, even if they tried to make a Mendeleev’s tank, it would have to be built according to shipbuilding technologies, only there they could connect armored plates. Well, tanks would be like battleships in numbers. The technology of welding armored plates of large thickness, so that tanks with bulletproof armor could be mass-built, appeared in the world in general just before WWII. Without it, your limit is a bulletproof cart with a motor, or perversions like bolt and rivet joints that do not hold anything.
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 21
                        -3
                        Photo of what year?
                  2. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 17
                    +1
                    And is it generally technically possible to drive something into hard, but very fragile plywood?
              2. Gopnik
                Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 03
                0
                it is not in the army.
                1. BAI
                  BAI 10 October 2018 17: 13
                  +2
                  For
                  Online
                  Koshnitsa (Sergey) Today, 16:52 New
                  0
                  This is a prototype, judging by the foliage. This is the Mainz prototype, studded with plywood.
                  In RI, the first prototypes in general in 1915 were released.
                  Reply
                  Quote
                  A complaint
                  Gopnik
                  Online
                  Gopnik Today, 17:03 New
                  0
                  it is not in the army.
                  Reply
                  Quote
                  A complaint

                  The first production A7V entered the army in December 1916.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 30
                    -4
                    In an alternate reality, perhaps.
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 41
                    -4
                    In October 1917, the first application in March 1918
                    Released for the entire war 20 cars.
                    November 13, 1916 only created a commission created.
                    1. BAI
                      BAI 10 October 2018 17: 44
                      +4
                      In total, from December 1916 to September 1918, 20 A7V tanks were assembled, of which 17 vehicles took an active part in the hostilities on the Western Front.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 17: 47
                        -5
                        The first production A7V was released only by October 1917. The tank was named after the 7th transport department of the Ministry of War.

                        Until September 1918, Germany managed to produce only 20 of these tanks. (although it was planned to produce at least 100 vehicles), so the German tanks had no serious combat significance. For comparison: France during the war years produced 3997 tanks of all types, and England - 2905.

                        Most of the tanks in the series received their own names - “Mephisto”, “Votan”, “Isolda” and others. The tanks entered service with the newly formed 1st, 2nd and 3rd tank divisions.
                      2. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 10 October 2018 17: 48
                        -2
                        It is only a pity that the Germans themselves are not aware of this (see, for example, German Wikipedia with links). You write to them about your discovery, they will be delighted.
                        Although, if you understand the phrase as "began to develop in December 1916" then the phrase is correct. It is a pity that you do not understand the difference between "started development" and "entered the troops"
              3. BAI
                BAI 10 October 2018 19: 55
                +3
                To summarize - there is nothing to refute the photograph, except for speculation on the interpretation.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 21: 15
                  -3
                  And why refute it? Photography is like photography, but this is clearly the 17th year.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 22: 17
                    -7
                    In my experience, the Stalinists will not admit their wrong even when they are 100% pressed against the wall. But this is not surprising, because in order to admit one’s mistakes one needs to have some internal honesty, intellectual discipline, to have a sincere desire to sort out the issue - in general, all that the Stalinists usually lack. And the people who have it are usually not Stalinists.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 22: 47
                      +4
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      In my experience, the Stalinists will not admit their wrong even when they are 100% pressed against the wall. But this is not surprising, because in order to admit one’s mistakes one must have some internal honesty, intellectual discipline

                      you yourself tear yourself away from the wall
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 10 October 2018 14: 42
          +4
          If you want something vyaknut, it is better to keep silent and familiarize yourself with the level of equipment with cannons, etc. equipment, as well as the difference in the level of technical complexity between the guns of the beginning and middle of the 20-th century. The explosive growth in the number of military professions, for which people had to be taken en masse, and not just from the few literate nobility, is an objective reality of the 20 century. The same aircraft on the beginning of the WWI in the Russian army on the beginning of the WWI were EMNIP pieces 500, each plane is not only 1-2 people on crews, but also a lot of service personnel, including qualified ones. At the beginning of WWII 500 pcs. it is so, to spit, even separately taken models were released sometimes by big series.

          If we talk about cannons, then the tsarist army had mainly 76 mm guns, why exactly 3 inches dominated at that time, so because such a cannon can be pulled by a pair of medium-sized horses. The larger tool is hemorrhoids. There was nothing like a banal and maybe even primitive Soviet self-propelled "Akatsia" there in principle. By the Second World War, implements were attached to tractors, who are richer and technically stronger, half-track tractors invented the whole of Europe and then fur. divisions bent down. After WWII, everything was motorized in general, MT-LB, this is the simplest thing in the army.

          And yes, the guns in the Russian army were ... Dozens of times smaller and exclusively on horse-thrust. Compared the genital organ with a finger.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 15: 20
            -5
            Quote: EvilLion
            Ten times smaller and exclusively horse drawn

            Like all over the world. They then drove horses everywhere, the era of motorization came later.
            And what are you, a young man so inflated? You, the monarchists offended in the gateway?
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 10 October 2018 19: 16
              +2
              Well, once riding, do not compare the level of equipment and literacy requirements of staff in 1914 and 1941. I would not be surprised that in 41 with specialties, despite compulsory universal education was worse than in 1914. Because the requirements have increased tenfold.

              By the way, 1914 fought well in 4 for a month, after which the spare parts ended, and it turned out that many more specialists needed to be in the rear. And even when we talk about, more or less, overcoming the projectile famine, this is the result of not only production growth, but also a low number of art. trunks in the division. I will not lie, but EMNIP it even decreased, but the Germans increased.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 19: 52
                -5
                Quote: EvilLion
                I would not be surprised that in the 41st with specialists, despite compulsory universal education, it was worse than in 1914.

                That's it, the Soviet infantryman of 1941 did not know how to shoot, dig in, throw grenades, and the cavalryman of 1941 did not know how to ride and chop and shoot, and so on in increasing order.
                That’s why the results are so sad.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 22: 46
                  +4
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  That's it, the Soviet infantryman of 1941 did not know how to shoot, dig

                  You can reference, or is it your personal observations with a squirrel

                  I read your opuses and fall into the sediment of "knowledge"
                  badge Voroshilov shooter awarded according to various sources from 6-9 million people
                  Since August 1, 1936, the Voroshilovsky shooter badge of the II degree needed to fulfill the norm for shooting only with a combat rifle
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 22: 52
                    -3
                    presentation of the badge and the ability to shoot, these are the concepts of the end of educational program and reading ability.
                    Therefore, the results of a contest of artillery batteries of the OKDVA Primorsky Group of Forces in March 1937 look natural:

                    “In the division artillery, not one of the competing batteries of 76-mm guns was able to perform any of the firing! In regimental artillery, out of 30 batteries, 27 turned out to be! All batteries were slowly deployed and made for firing, poorly camouflaged, poorly scouted targets. ”

                    Nevertheless, a year later, in March 1938, in the battery of the 60th artillery regiment “of the 134 training hours allotted for combat training, only 42 hours were used”, in platoons of the 49th regiment of the 17th Infantry Division of the Moscow Military District “ Of the 150 hours set aside for study in June, less than 50 hours were used for their intended purpose. As a result, “the program on tactics, bayonet combat, and fire training is poorly understood.”

                    In December, Mehlis at the Military Council reported on the state of affairs in the Far Eastern armies:

                    “The combat training of units of the 1st and 2nd armies and ZABVO troops is still at a low level .... Until now, many more people in the units are distracted by all sorts of auxiliary work not related to combat training. Some counties are slowly eliminating subsidiary plots, especially ZABVO. One of the divisions of ZABVO has up to 670 hectares of sowing, a herd of cows and a thousand sheep. ”

                    As the “Red Star” was forced to state, the result of such combat training was “the same everywhere - the failure to complete the curriculum”. In one of the parts of the Belarusian military district to the question of the Red Army: “Why do we still have no military training classes?” The political instructor who conducted the political information answered: “First we need to work, and then we will study.”

                    According to unpublished letters from military correspondents, military training in many parts was disorganized and ineffective: either the firing started late by 3-4 hours due to the lack of duty and signalmen, then only 3 people were shot within 4-203 hours, then instead of the three assigned cartridges each fighter issued one by one. It also happened that they could not start firing at all, because at the firing line it suddenly became clear that they forgot (?!) To take cartridges or a defective weapon.

                    From the Kharkov district, they reported that during their stay in the camp there was only one shooting lesson, and even that from a small-caliber rifle. As a result, the Red Army "do not know how to shoot, do not know the rifle and gas mask." There were parts where, after a year of service, the fighters did not know how to saddle a horse, could not shoot. From the 1st OKA, they wrote indignantly that the commissar’s wife went to the shooting range, and forced the Red Army to wash the floors in their apartment, although some soldiers “didn’t shoot for a year and a half” in the unit.

                    In September 1938, the newspaper’s permanent correspondent for the Leningrad Military District wrote: “It’s ridiculous to say that soldiers on the front line, where they can engage in bayonet fighting tomorrow, cannot shoot, throw grenades, or own a bayonet. And do not do it. There are also no necessary weapons, ammunition to immediately open fire. "

                    The situation was no better with the training of junior commanders. Cadets of regimental schools were sent to work, which took about 80% of the study time. So, in the regimental school of the 5th Infantry Regiment “of the time provided for by the program for the training of cadets, only 23 percent were used directly for classes! .... The situation was the same with the organization of studies at the regimental school of the artillery regiment .... at the courses of reserve lieutenants in the 63rd regiment. "
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 22: 53
                      -3
                      In one part of the Kharkov district, radio operators of the artillery regiment had not been engaged in special training for five and a half months, in the other part - eight, in the third lesson they had not been held with the junior artillery commanders for about a year.

                      This was the case everywhere and it always has been: tankers did not study “the theory and practice of new technology”, other specialists did not study “engineering, light machine guns and hand grenades”. The numerous appeals of the cadets themselves to the commanders and commissars had no effect. In response, it sounded: “What other activities are with you, there is no time (!)”

                      If this happened in combat units, then what about the rear and business executives? One of them admitted: “I joined the Red Army on October 1, 1937, and during that time I have never been in military and political training. Not only did I not increase my level of knowledge, but I also forgot what I knew before joining the unit ”... ..

                      The level of combat training of the Red Army sharply decreased as a result of the hunt for “pests” carried out in the army. In 1936 - 1940, about 10 thousand military personnel of commanding and commanding staff were repressed. Moreover, as follows from the report of Voroshilov at the February-March plenum, at the beginning of 1937 there were only 107 thousand of them.

                      “Before the Hasan events, I served in the 120th Infantry Regiment of the 40th Infantry Division,” said S. Sharonov. - They did not do combat training. In 1937 - 1938 many commanders were taken. The division command was completely taken away: the commander Vasnetsov, the commissar Rudenko, the chief of staff of Stahl, the chief of artillery, the chief, and his wife, a medical officer, were arrested. To the shelf - the same picture. We, ordinary soldiers, sometimes did not know whom to believe. They were drawn only to political instructor Matveev, the real Bolshevik, still of the Red Guard. He was also taken, and then returned. We asked him when would you throw battle grenades, or was it all wooden and wooden? And Matveyev answered: “ You’ll throw a grenade, but for the state it will cost a cow. ” He thought about it and added: “Yes ... you will still fight ....” (Vladimir Beshanin “Blood-red” army. Whose fault is it? ”, Moscow, 2010, pp. 342-345, 347).
                      1. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 52
                        +4
                        Girl, I’ll find such a ton not even from a mentally ill Beshanin, but from impartial researchers. But when these researchers describe what was happening in the Republic of Ingushetia, then you will get hysterical, saying "we are all the time."

                        And the whole mess in the Red Army in the 30's is a direct result of those very social processes that led RI to a shameful death.

                        was repressed


                        Write correctly: "dismissed from the army for all reasons", reasons may include illness, death, conviction for ordinary crimes. Even expulsion from the party is already repression. Moreover, not excluding complaints and subsequent recovery, there are a lot of examples.

                        when awake battle grenades throw


                        Count up, and nowadays very rarely very often throw grenades, as a rule, throw a mass-size model. Moreover, even throwing a combat grenade even if it costs 0.00 rubles is very problematic, because everyone needs to be in cover when your company is working out a stupid casting range, then it always throws one, it picks up the other and along the conveyor. With the fighting process, eternity would take.

                        How stupid you are ...
                      2. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 08
                        -5
                        White-ticket stories have gone laughing
                    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 07: 29
                      +1
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      0
                      presentation of the badge and the ability to shoot, these are the concepts of the end of educational program and reading ability

                      bliiiin is not treated
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 59
                        -5
                        He is treated with great blood and a happy selection of personnel, thank God that Zaitsev quit taking care of finances at the TCF and picked up a rifle.
                    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 09: 37
                      +1
                      excuse me what ?!
                      "According to unpublished letters of war correspondents" even your rubbish from the same forums, it makes no sense to read
                      why do you quote from the books of a pseudo historian ?!
                      for me, the fact that he is popular on the "ear" is a sufficient indicator
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 21
                        -3
                        Well, if they knew how to shoot at the Red Army, then why aren't there a single sniper trained in the army?
                        All of them are either hunters or just hunters.
                        And the fact that the papers were sent upstairs is such a feature of a scoop, constantly rubbing glasses.
                      2. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 43
                        +5
                        Probably because all army snipers are trained exclusively in the army and some skills in shooting from a Berdank squirrel can only slightly reduce the period of development of weapons. In principle, the skills of hunters have nothing to do with fighting. The hunter needs neither tactics, nor disguise, nor charter. Even sports shooting does not make a person a military sniper; such skills are given only in the army.

                        Sound more.
                      3. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 51
                        -6
                        Surnames of these snipers trained in the Red Army?
                        Their name is unknown, khe-khe ..
                        Quote: EvilLion
                        Sound more.

                        Why are you talking like this? Do you have a tantrum?
                      4. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 11 October 2018 14: 20
                        +4
                        You go to Google and enter "Soviet snipers of World War II." There is not only Vasya Zaitsev, the lists will be endless.

                        And I still politely communicate with you.

                        And there are some hunters or trappers ... Yes, damn it, they were all in the Red Army, there were no other places where you could study military affairs in the USSR (military sports organizations, or DOSAAF I do not think, they all only serve the army )
                      5. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 27
                        -7
                        Yes came, the most productive ten NONE, trained in the Red Army.
                        Kulbertinov was in the Red Army or the elderly Nomokonov?
                        Ilyin also received a rifle following the results of fights, a typical nugget.
                        So in the army of snipers they were taught so much that they weren’t marked anywhere like snipers.
                        The casket just opened.
                      6. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 14: 47
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Yes came, the most productive ten NONE, trained in the Red Army.

                        "I look in a book - I see a fig" is a saying that exactly reflects your approach to obtaining information. laughing
                        I will tell you what to look for - courses "Shot", 1929. and Lieutenant General Morozov G.F.
                        PS However, what I hope is that you don’t even know how to read bold ...
                      7. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 54
                        -6
                        In the summer of 1941, the most important resource for the rapid increase in the number of snipers was arrow-athletes. Candidates and masters of sports in bullet shooting needed only to add knowledge on military training. // Further on the successes of General Morozov is not necessary.
                        Many athletes went to the front with their sports weapons - there was no time to relearn, and there was a lack of rifles at the front line. // It's just some shame
                        Theodosius Smolyachkov the best Voroshilov shooter - account of 125 enemies.
                        Well, it's generally tears.
                        At the end of 1942, about 250 thousand snipers served in the troops.
                        Well, and how are you doing, huh?
                        The best snipers were non-conscript aliens and Russian hunters and generally left-wing casual people, musicians and a financial inspector with railroad workers.
                      8. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 15: 14
                        +3
                        Yes, really found about the training of snipers in the Red Army. Although, most likely, they just "drove" that you don't know.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Well, and how are you doing, huh?

                        You can read about successes in the reports of the Wehrmacht from June 1941.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        The best snipers were conscripts

                        "Uncalled" snipers do not exist in nature. laughing
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        foreigners and Russian hunters and generally left-wing random people, musicians and a financial inspector with railroad workers.

                        All of them took sniper courses - read Ogarkov.
                      9. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 15: 16
                        -4
                        Nomokonov, Kulbertinov, Ilyin, Zaitsev, which of the top ten snipers took courses?
                        Only Pchelintsev, and even he was an athlete.
                        That is, there was an army sniping system that did not give an exhaust that was somehow tangible.
                        And on pieces of paper the people were hundreds of thousands, but only hunters and nuggets could prove themselves.
                      10. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 15: 57
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        And on pieces of paper the people were hundreds of thousands, but only hunters and nuggets could prove themselves.

                        You, as a schoolboy who considers war a bit of a colophus, of course, such childish naivety is permissible. Let's hope that over time you grow up and this will pass.
                      11. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 38
                        -3
                        Merlin, I don’t know what colofood is. Have you served in the army yourself?
                      12. marline
                        marline 12 October 2018 09: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Merlin, I don’t know what colofood is.

                        Judging by the number of myths and cliches that you cite in your comments, you know perfectly well what it is.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Did you serve in the army yourself?

                        Served
                      13. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Nomocons

                        when you give examples you don’t know what to think
                        Do you know that Semyon Danilovich worked as a shooting instructor, having trained over 150 soldiers in sniper training
                        Kulbertinov Ivan Nikolaevich prepared 35 shooters for the war

                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        which of the top ten snipers took courses

                        Natalya Venediktovna Kovshova (November 26, 1920 - August 14, 1942) - Hero of the Soviet Union, a sniper during the Great Patriotic War With the outbreak of the Great Patriotic War, she volunteered for the Red Army. Graduated from sniper courses. At the front since October 1941 as you can see there were sniper courses, although you probably don’t see
                      14. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 37
                        -5
                        She graduated from sniper courses. At the front since October 1941. -Is it called in the USSR sniper courses? Not more than 3 months?
                      15. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 40
                        -4
                        Evenk Hamnigan by nationality. Hereditary hunter. Since childhood, he lived in the taiga. Already at 10 years old he was considered a real hunter. He had the nickname "Eye of a kite."
                        Personnel work at height, ingenious!
                        At first he served as a nurse and sapper on the Kalinin front. He was surrounded, but went to his own. After he was seen by the command as a well-aimed shooter, transferred to a sniper platoon
                      16. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 12 October 2018 07: 02
                        -1
                        That's what Semyon Danilovich was appointed as a nurse.
                        Puchkov-score 702 victory-hunter and so on.
                      17. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 15: 17
                        -5
                        Quote: merlin
                        You can read about successes in the reports of the Wehrmacht from June 1940.

                        So it was snipers who beat all 3,6 million Germans on the Ostfront?
                      18. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 15: 30
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        So it was snipers who beat all 3,6 million Germans on the Ostfront?

                        Did Petrosyan bite you?
                        Read the reports.
                      19. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 15: 39
                        -5
                        This is too much information.
                        More specific?
                      20. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 16: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        More specific?

                        Diary of F. Halder. Record of July 3:
                        12-th day of war. Losses: From 22.6 to 30.6, our losses amount to a total of 41087 people = 1,64% of the available staff (with the number of troops equal to 2,5 million people). Killed: 524 officer and 8362 non-commissioned officer and private. Wounded: 966 officers and 28528 non-commissioned officers and privates. Loss of officers in relation to general losses: injured - 3,3% (campaign in the West - 3,1%), killed - 6,2% (campaign in the West - 4,85%), missing - 1,5% (campaign in the West - 2%)

                        Analyze if, of course, there is something wink
                      21. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 16: 16
                        -3
                        What do snipers have to do with it?
                      22. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 16: 37
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        What do snipers have to do with it?

                        Clear ... nothing to analyze ...
                      23. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 16: 57
                        -5
                        I do not see the work of snipers.
                        I see stretched communications, I see lost headquarters, I see "friendly fire" on the commanders of the columns, that is, the influence of overwhelming is noted, but the enemy's sniper training is not visible.
                      24. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 17: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        I do not see the work of snipers.

                        I already realized that your brain is replaced by faith in the tsar and the fatherland and hatred of the Bolsheviks ... calm down, breathe more evenly ...
                        By the way, your portrait?
                      25. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 17: 18
                        -3
                        No, not mine, mine on the avatar.
                        In order to draw any conclusions, more information is needed.
                        If the losses of officers in the West differ from the losses in the east by two tenths of a percent, then what can this be said at all?
                        And a large number of those killed, knowing the German system, which includes all those who died from wounds within 24 hours, shows the influence of space and impassability. How many asphalt roads were there in the USSR?
                        No snipers at all.
                        according to the missing, the same thing, it’s even interesting why in the West there are more of them with its bushes than with the Pinsk swamps. Only the extremely weak resistance of the Red Army.
                        We surrender and break up, instead of eliminating lost enemy officers.
                      26. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 17: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        No, not mine, mine on the avatar.

                        Who are you going to deceive with this: on the avatar, an adult man, and you are a child by reason ...
                        However, some in 70-retain the mind of the 5-th child
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        If the losses of officers in the West differ from the losses in the east by two tenths of a percent, then what can this be said at all?

                        Is your calculator broken? Or have you not yet completed the basics of working with this device at school? Ahhhh, I understand, you are just not familiar with the fractions ...
                      27. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 18: 16
                        -2
                        Quote: merlin
                        wounded - 3,3% (campaign in the West - 3,1%),

                        I see two tenths. Do you have a different calculator?
                      28. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 18: 24
                        +3
                        Oh yes, I forgot that you are highlighted in bold, in principle, unable to read.
                        PS since you didn’t go to school, I’ll enlighten
                        You: Losses - living force and equipment that are out of order during a battle or war. This is not only the wounded, but also the dead. Learn Russian language - come in handy in life wink
                      29. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 18: 25
                        -4
                        We dealt with the wounded, then what?
                        Where is the proof?
                        killed - 6,2% (campaign in the West - 4,85%), so it must be proved that these are consequences of sniper fire.
                        And with the evidence base, you have no way.
                      30. marline
                        marline 11 October 2018 18: 49
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        killed - 6,2% (campaign in the West - 4,85%), so it must be proved that these are consequences of sniper fire.

                        In your opinion, the Wehrmacht officers were dying en masse from diarrhea? laughing laughing
                        Obviously, you deserve a premium for stupidity.
                        PS Halder based on these data reported on the actions of snipers.
                        Naturally, there are PSS reports about the actions of snipers at the beginning of the war and about the great losses that they inflict on the Wehrmacht officers. Just bringing them was boring, and I wanted to see how you would react to perfectly clear numbers - you did not disappoint me, burn more !!!
                      31. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 19: 02
                        -4
                        Snipers or just individual shooters?
                        That's it ...
                        With snorkeling in the Red Army was nothing, we already figured out, and some people who knew how to shoot a civilian, hunters, trappers, athletes, crime met.
                        So the preparation system is a fat count!
                        And to individual heroes, glory!
                        As required.
                        If four of the five marshals are saloids are illiterate, and the General Staff steers a furrier, during the years of WWII he evaded the front.
                        It remains to rely on natural resources.
                      32. marline
                        marline 12 October 2018 08: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        That's it ...

                        what we
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        already figured out

                        what do you want, a basket -
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        fat count!
                      33. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        I do not see the work of snipers.

                      34. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 43
                        -4
                        The effect of the attack aircraft can manifest itself in different ways:

                        "Cannon meat" is completely unable to harm the main characters, despite a good training.
                      35. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: merlin
                        Did Petrosyan bite you?

                        along with all the crooked mirror
                      36. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 22
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        In the summer of 1941, the most important resource for the rapid increase in the number of snipers was arrow-athletes.

                        damn do you even have mosk? !!!
                        Can you imagine the difference between trap shooting and sniper work ?!
                        I’ll tell you more, many athletes were taken to the rear, but this does not mean that Spartak did of them saboteurs or what kind of sport club
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        and generally left-wing random people, musicians and a financial inspector with railroad workers.

                        Well, the financial inspector came and how, let’s throw hundreds of Fritz out of a rifle, unfortunately I can’t convey what I really think about your intellectual features
                      37. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 54
                        -3
                        Vasily Zaitsev was a financial inspector, and it was he who became the icon of Stalingrad, but where were the real snipers?
                      38. marline
                        marline 12 October 2018 08: 45
                        +3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Can you imagine the difference between trap shooting and sniper work ?!

                        I have serious doubts that he even imagines what shooting is.
                      39. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 16
                        +4
                        Quote: merlin
                        "I look in a book - I see a fig" is a saying that exactly reflects your approach to obtaining information.

                        I'm afraid that even this does not see
                      40. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 16
                        +4
                        Yes came, the most productive ten NONE, trained in the Red Army. [/ Quote]
                        Are you sick or have such a life ?!
                        how old are you really interested in the feeling that we are talking with a youngster [quote = Koshnitsa] So in the army of snipers they taught so that they weren’t marked anywhere like snipers. [/ quote]
                        unfortunately moderation will not allow you to write the truth about you, a normal person SUCH nonsense can not write
                      41. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 18
                        -4
                        Well, in the USSR it is very often that they taught a person in one specialty, and he is engaged in another matter.
                      42. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 12 October 2018 04: 48
                        +5
                        And, for example, Pavlichenko who was - a trap or just a hunter?
                      43. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 October 2018 23: 10
                        +4
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Surnames of these snipers trained in the Red Army?

                        Maxim Aleksandrovich Passar
                        Born on August 30, 1923 in the village of Lower Qatar, Far Eastern Territory (now - Nanai district of Khabarovsk Territory). Since 1933 he studied at a school in the village of Naihin. From childhood, along with his father, he was engaged in the traditional Nanai craft - hunting for fur animals.
                        In February 1942, he volunteered for the front. In May 1942 passed sniper training in parts of the North-Western Front

                        Natalya Venediktovna Kovshova
                        Born November 26, 1920 in Ufa. Subsequently, the family moved to Moscow. In 1940 graduated from Moscow school No. 281 in Ulansky Lane (now No. 1284 [4]) and joined the Orgaviaprom Aviation Industry Trust, created in late autumn of that year. She worked as an inspector of the personnel department.

                        Zhambyl Yesheevich Tulaev
                        He was born on May 2 (15), 1905 in the Tagarkhai ulus, now the Tunkinsky district of Buryatia, in a peasant family. Buryat.
                        Before World War II he lived in the city of Irkutsk, worked as the head of the container base

                        Ivan Mikhailovich Sidorenko
                        In the 1920s, he moved with his family to Donbass, where he studied in elementary school. Since 1932 he lived in the city of Lipetsk, where he graduated from 10 classes. In 1938 entered the Penza art school. But from the second year he was drafted into the army and sent to a military school.

                        Moldagulova, Alia Nurmukhambetovna
                        In March 1942, together with the orphanage, Aliya left the besieged Leningrad in the village of Vyatskoye, Yaroslavl Region.
                        October 1, 1942, at the end of the 7th grade of Vyatka secondary school, she entered Rybinsk Aviation College. She really wanted to fight in the air, but she got into the study group specializing in cold metal processing. Three months later, Alia Moldagulova submitted an application to the Red Army with a request to send her to the front. December 21, 1942 she was expelled from the college "in connection with leaving for the front."
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Their name is unknown, khe-khe ..

                        it is not known where you received your "knowledge", and THESE Names are known
                      44. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 14
                        -3
                        Of the 160 snipers, not a lot.
                        And who of them received sniper training, except Passar.
                        Buryat, head of the container base, I believe, Ivan Sidorenko is an artist, I believe, but where are the sniping courses?
                      45. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 October 2018 07: 36
                        +3
                        once again for the visually impaired and not at all thinking a person who shoots accurately is not necessarily a sniper
                        I advise you to read one of Leonov's first books about Lev Gurov there is an interesting moment when a "pure" sportsman-shooter was involved in the role of a shooter during the arrest
                      46. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 October 2018 07: 37
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Of the 160 snipers, not a lot.

                        Yes, I just sit in the scrap and look for you a biography of people
                      47. bubalik
                        bubalik 11 October 2018 23: 26
                        0
                        Vasilenko Vladimir Today, 00: 10


                        ,, I would have added Afanasyev Nikifor Samsonovich ..
                      48. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 23: 34
                        -3
                        Since childhood, I went hunting with my uncle in the taiga. One of the first to enter the collective farm in 1931, worked as a herder, shepherd. Member of World War II since October 1941. He began his service as a cook in a rifle battalion on the Western Front. In the spring of 1942, at his own request, he was transferred to snipers as a former hunter. Thanks, where are the courses?
                      49. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 12 October 2018 07: 37
                        +2
                        Deviating from the topic of this commentary, I would like to add that you, Vladimir Vasilenko, give a lot of facts. Much earlier, in the spring, they probably cited many figures about the hungry years of the Republic of Ingushetia and human losses. I have also cited figures and quotations from Leo Tolstoy's articles "Hunger" many times. And opponents continue to hang the same old smelly footcloths here repeatedly and chatter and steal the time of many members of the forum. It has already arrived !! And you will have to, you have to, apparently repeat what has already been written !!!!!!!!!
                2. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 40
                  +2
                  Unfortunately for you, analyzes of the internal ones by Prudnikova, who is not trying to embellish reality, testify to the fact that they somehow learned to WWII more or less with this. But I had to learn again because RI was already at death before this, and the army, the Red Army, died, of course, the direct heir to the tsarist army and was built from what survived. Well, after the civilian army, it was actually necessary to disperse.

                  That's just the Bolsheviks of all that has successfully collapsed before them were able to create Something that came to Berlin, destroying the army, which in front of this all of Europe just put cancer.

                  But for you, this, of course, is very sad. You are with us for Hitler.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 01
                    -6
                    Quote: EvilLion
                    You are with us for Hitler.

                    Yes, do not cry like that, it is technically impossible.
                    Hitler is dead, Reich is destroyed.
                    Don’t be afraid of me, be a man.
                3. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 12 October 2018 04: 39
                  +3
                  The Germans had the exact opposite impression ... For some reason.
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2018 13: 01
            -1
            Quote: EvilLion
            and the overwhelming majority of the soldiers belonged to the same category of "private with a rifle", and in order to teach a person to walk in formation, handle a primitive rifle, stand on guard and dig trenches, he does not even need to know "ABC".

            The Bolsheviks were bastards, they built some kind of tanks, and guns, for which the operating instructions in the form of not the thinnest books, but not anyhow, but with strange formulas. The Russian soldier does not need it, he added pieces to the three-line, yelled "Hurray", but he ran into the attack,


            During WW2 most of the Red Army men belonged to the category of "soldiers with a rifle", often without training at all - called up directly by the troops on the ground - they were armed with a three-legged gun with a long bayonet and forward "For Stalin" to machine guns.

            Quote: EvilLion
            cadres for which it was necessary to take en masse, and not just from a few competent nobility


            From the "small nobility", as well as from the other "former" and "disenfranchised" in the military cadres in general were not taken, apparently from an overabundance of literate population.


            Quote: EvilLion
            If we talk about cannons, the tsarist army had mostly 76 mm guns, why it was 3 inches that dominated at that time, because such a cannon can be dragged by a pair of medium-hefty horses.


            The basis of the artillery of the Red Army in the Second World War was the same outdated three-inch. Unlike other participants.

            Quote: EvilLion
            There was nothing like a banal and maybe even primitive Soviet self-propelled "Akatsia" there in principle.


            Did Akatsia take part in the Second World War? Oh how ...
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 13: 22
              -3
              And the nobles were about 1917 million people in 2, why is it not numerous?
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 11 October 2018 14: 15
              +4
              Then 80% of the army is a soldier with a rifle. But only in WWI there were 100% of such. No mechanized connections existed as a class. Even the trucks did not exist, in order to deliver the shells, of course, and the drivers' problems did not exist for them.

              The basis of the artillery of the Red Army in the Second World War was the same outdated three-inch. Unlike other participants.


              ZiS-3 - this is a new tool. Well, ML-20 or BM-13, generally look at you with bewilderment. What was the basis of the other participants ... Well, sIG 33, for example, 150 mm or 10,5 cm leFH 18
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 14: 29
                -6
                There were cars in the Red Army and all artillery was, of all kinds.
                But the level of training, of course, was different.
                There, the soldiers were trained in the rear for three to four months, unlike the Second World War.
              2. Gopnik
                Gopnik 11 October 2018 16: 58
                0
                Zis-3 is a cheap weapon for the army that cheaply values ​​the lives of its soldiers. This cannon is "none" either as an anti-tank or as a battalion. At the same time, it is the basis of PTA and divisional artillery. Which was quickly removed after the war.
                Yes, the Germans, like the rest of the participants, have divisional artillery - howitzers.
        3. mmaxx
          mmaxx 16 October 2018 14: 22
          +1
          There were none of them. There were anyone.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 16 October 2018 15: 30
            -2
            That is, artillery was not produced in Russia?
            Interesting version.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 18 October 2018 12: 37
              +1
              It was made. Completely foreign samples. They didn’t even try to do their own. Just a little, right abroad for guns
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 13: 07
                -2
                In general, the production of their guns in Russia since the 14th century.
                But you live in your reality, no one can stop you.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 18 October 2018 14: 15
                  0
                  About the 14th century and the then rulers are not necessary. Then the rulers were at a level above world standards. Otherwise, there was no such country as Russia.
                  What are the best examples of guns before the German war, and most importantly how many were domestic in the Russian army? I don’t even remember Russian like that. From what is in plain sight, everything is French. Then they bought it from the British. All the loot was surpassed by the beautiful tsarist figures.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 14: 25
                    -2
                    The 76,2-mm field rapid-firing gun of the 1902 model, also known as the "three-inch", was developed at the Putilov factory in St. Petersburg by designers L. A. Bishlyak, K. M. Sokolovsky and K. I. Lipnitsky and engineer N. A Zabudsky
                    Google gun factories in Russia.
                    And do not be delirious, even Dzhugashvilka sucking his pipe acknowledged that everything had been arranged with artillery since the tsarist regime.
                    1. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 18 October 2018 15: 27
                      0
                      Yeah. Only French is she. Russian there is easy tuning.
                      And recognizing the order from the tsar, Dzhugashvili launched such artillery construction that no one dreamed. Number of models to list? Apparently so much was in order that I had to redo everything. Yes. And after all, all this was done by the Stalinist ignoramuses and dropouts.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 15: 55
                        -2
                        When Dzhugashvilke also massively adopted foreign samples.
                        And they had to redo the old Russian trunks under the rubber and knurls.
                        It just went on in the world of technology.
                        There is no merit of the one who does not know how to work in Dzhugashvilka Ruska here.
                        old cadres with imperial education worked.
                        Stalin’s shots then charged water from the TV.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 18 October 2018 21: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Stalin’s shots then charged water from the TV.

                        You are mistaken, my dear, these are your, Gorbachev’s cadres, the Stalinist people were cleaned back in the 50s.
                      3. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 20
                        0
                        I just do not understand. Why divide before and after? People lived in the country. They did not end and did not begin with the revolution. What were, and used these. And I will never believe that in tsarist Russia they could make an atomic bomb or fly into space. There were no prerequisites.
                        No geniuses raised and educated before the revolution will do anything on their own. Always need a lot. Competent according to the requirements of the time and working. These people need to be organized first of all. This is the genius of the Tupolevs, Korolevs, Beria, Malyshevs. Anyone. Even Stalin himself. They lived in certain conditions, at a certain time. And in most cases they did what was necessary. They did it. Unlike Nicolas 2 and his entourage. You can never go back to the most beautiful past, It must be done here and now. And the will of the Bolsheviks was based precisely on the masses. And the bulk of the people followed them. And in tsarist Russia, the people simply did not go anywhere. And in 1991, too, did not go.
                      4. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 20 October 2018 12: 39
                        -1
                        That is, the people should be slave cattle with no rights, which Beria will "organize"?
                        Is it happiness and success?
                      5. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 20 October 2018 14: 55
                        0
                        Organize better. At least a thousand people. Especially if at zero.
                        To be for all good versus all bad mind is not necessary.
                      6. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 20 October 2018 15: 02
                        -1
                        Yes, everyone organized better in the 20th century.
                        That's the thing, you see.
                        Even Romanians and Chinese.
    4. Simargl
      Simargl 11 October 2018 08: 28
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      how did literacy help?
      Simpler rules - less troubles with learning.
      It just so happened that literacy is not the letters to read / write to learn.
      You will be very surprised, but even what is being taught at school now is very simplified rules. Upon receipt of a profile specialty at a university, a new type of language opens up in Russian.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 11 October 2018 13: 58
        -3
        Quote: Simargl
        Simpler rules - less troubles with learning.

        We know the rule "Ellochka Ogre"
        Quote: Simargl
        Upon receipt of a profile specialty at a university, at Russian language opens a new look.

        Understood nothing recourse
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 11 October 2018 23: 59
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          We know the rule "Ellochka Ogre"
          You smack nonsense! She is in pain.
          The simplest rule: as I hear - so I write.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Understood nothing
          Here you need to catch the philologist-Russian scholar and compare the description of the rules of the Russian language from him and from school textbooks. They are somewhat different (not all, of course).
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 12 October 2018 06: 53
            0
            Quote: Simargl
            You smack nonsense! Her painfully.

            Are you her protector?
            Quote: Simargl
            The simplest rule: as I hear - so I write.

            Primitivism is called: this is how the "kuleshovka" was created. For the illiterate and undeveloped. But the Russian language is much more beautiful, juicier and more multifaceted, and therefore more difficult
            Quote: Simargl
            Here you need to catch the philologist-Russian scholar and compare the description of the rules of the Russian language from him and from school textbooks. They are somewhat different (not all, of course).

            There are generally accepted rules of the Russian language, and they must be adhered to
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 12 October 2018 15: 01
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              The Russian language is much more beautiful, juicier and multifaceted, therefore more difficult
              Did I try to argue about this?
              Quote: Olgovich
              There are generally accepted rules of the Russian language, and they must be adhered to
              Just ask a philologist to make out the rules in the Russian language textbook - then you will be indignant. As it turns out, the rules are generally accepted, but the theory is "somewhat" different
    5. AnderS
      AnderS 18 October 2018 14: 55
      +2
      Judging by you ("pre-revolutionary" instead of "pre-revolutionary"), this reform, the elimination of your illiteracy personally, has not helped until now. What can we say about your "literacy", if the alphabet still had 35 letters and a bunch of stupid rules in which cases all sorts of "yat" should be written, and in which not ...
      And as for the shortest terms of the elimination of illiteracy - just the same cannot be denied - if in pre-revolutionary Russia the overwhelming majority of the population was illiterate (up to 70% according to Wikipedia), then already before the war, in 1939, up to 90% were literate. Of course, you can argue about the definition of "the shortest time", but given the fact that the Romanovs ruled Russia for 300 years and during this period "achieved" 30% of the population's literacy, the result of the Bolsheviks who achieved 20% of literacy in 90 years is simply "shortest" ...
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 18 October 2018 15: 33
        0
        You can hang anything on the Bolsheviks. But the fact that they promptly provided the highest level of education accessible to everyone is an absolute axiom. I didn’t even expect that there would be such lovers of the royal education system. Although I myself am not at all an ardent supporter of Soviet power. Although how else to look at the current ...
        Citing as an example some illiterate people to our time, it would be better to give an example of the literacy of the main part of the population. There are simply people who do not need any education. It will die in them. And he himself saw a lot of these. They do not affect statistics in any way.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 18 October 2018 16: 00
          -1
          Graduates of the tsarist gymnasiums sent people to space, and graduates of the Central School of Politics occupied the Politburo.
          A graduate of a Soviet university there was some miserable misunderstanding. Adept Kashpirovsky, khe-khe ...
          Quote: mmaxx
          it would be better to give an example of literacy of the bulk of the population.

          82% of young men in 1920 were literate. The revolution and the Bolsheviks only delayed the process of eliminating illiteracy.
          1. mmaxx
            mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 30
            0
            Speak better about yourself. Are you a graduate of some other - an alien or foreign university? For example, I do not experience any complex from my education. He worked with the Germans and the French. Yes, literate men. But they also spoke very highly of the qualifications of our people.
            What does it have to do with it? In what way did the reform of the Russian language conceived under the tsar affect the miserable level of a graduate of a Soviet university. I’ll say for myself - no way. Russian as a subject is very complicated. And its simplification will definitely help to quickly become literate and at least somehow master YOUR language. It is somehow. Reform does not bother any of us from reading old books. What language was, and remained so.
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 10 October 2018 06: 56
    +1
    This was already known, as well as the fact that the most significant changes in spelling during the entire period of Soviet power were the introduction of the spelling of the letter e instead of o in some words ("devil" instead of "devil"), the use of the combination "dt" instead of "tt" ("go" instead of "go") and similar innovations that did not radically affect the existing spelling order.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 October 2018 09: 42
      0
      Quote: inkass_98
      This was already known, as well as the fact that the most significant changes in spelling during the entire period of Soviet power were the introduction of the spelling of the letter e instead of o in some words ("devil" instead of "devil"), the use of the combination "dt" instead of "tt" ("go" instead of "go") and similar innovations that did not radically affect the existing spelling order.

      Yes, yes, now it is very strange to read such combinations ... "" Perfect coup "" or "" come "" ... I have an 8-volume book "History of the XIX century" "edited by Tarle, 1937, however, without "super" ". In excellent condition!
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 10 October 2018 10: 01
        +4
        I first got acquainted with such spelling of words in childhood when reading Obruchev, I found an edition of "Sannikov Land" from the 50s at my grandmother's. Oh, I think, but at school they taught me differently wink .
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 10 October 2018 10: 34
          +4
          Quote: inkass_98
          Obruchev, "Sannikov Lands" of the 50s. wink .

          You brought up a very interesting fact. It was this book, which also contained "Plutonium", for my uncle, born in 1963, that became the first big book. And he began to keep a "book diary" after her. Well, I read it much later. Now I remember that I laughed at the strange letter combinations. We need to think, what if she still has some relatives somewhere?
          1. inkass_98
            inkass_98 10 October 2018 11: 41
            +3
            Later I specially found both volumes of Obruchev of the same period of publication, I had to dig around the ruins of the books. That's just the cover was different, although the condition of the books was very decent.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 October 2018 13: 33
              +2
              Quote: inkass_98
              Later I specially found both volumes of Obruchev of the same period of publication, I had to dig around the ruins of the books. That's just the cover was different, although the condition of the books was very decent.
              Yeah, the topic of book collapses, ----- good and interesting ..... However, those that were in our area of ​​St. Petersburg are greatly reduced, both quantitatively and qualitatively. Even 2 years ago, however, there was a lot of luck. And a year ago
              1. Paranoid50
                Paranoid50 11 October 2018 00: 06
                +2
                On "Krupa" (if you are not talking about it) there are options. There on a permanent basis (even on weekdays) are grandfathers with their ruins. Even if at the time of your visit something is not available, you can agree by making a "pre-order". Well, the probability of finding what you are looking for is, of course, not 100%, but very high. And if it is not with one, then he will direct to another, etc.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 11 October 2018 01: 51
                  +2
                  To "Krupa" ---- far away and there seems to be no place at home, there are no plans to go ..... And in our Primorsky district, by chance, without prior intentions, passing by ----- suddenly see !!!! !!
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 10 October 2018 11: 04
      -1
      And this, by the way, is logical, since all Russian spelling is built on preserving the root of the word.
  4. Vladycat
    Vladycat 10 October 2018 07: 11
    -6
    Fucking reformers again. Well, why in everyday life we ​​look at past experience, but in science we refuse everything new ?. There were no more directions where you could direct your gaze? Here is like a simple word "world" and "world" and the meaning is completely different. How could this be simplified? Although that was not immediately simplified to the level of Ellochka - the cannibals, or to the language of the Chatlano-Patsakov. :(
    1. alebor
      alebor 10 October 2018 10: 01
      +4
      But is it only rational for the sake of distinguishing one word WORLD to keep a separate letter in the alphabet? In Russian there are many homonyms words that sound and spell the same, but have different meanings - then do you also need to get special letters for them?
      By the same logic, one could also leave the letter v-izhitsu, since the church oil myro (mvro) was written through it and, accordingly, in the instrumental case with the "world" it is completely unclear whether it is said about the world, the world or the mvre.
      As for the letter "i", it did not differ in any way from "and", but the first had to be written before the vowels, and the second in other cases, which, of course, complicated the grammar in which there was no special meaning.
  5. bober1982
    bober1982 10 October 2018 08: 04
    +6
    The author correctly concluded that the spelling reform is the result of many years of work by the best Russian linguists.
    About how ecclesiastics in the 1990s zealously abolished the Bolshevik spelling - the author of course greatly exaggerates the Church Slavonic language, as the basis of the Russian language, and what kind of reformations of spelling can be.
  6. Boris55
    Boris55 10 October 2018 08: 09
    -4
    Do you know what elementary truths are? But read each line in a square vertically, horizontally and diagonally: Аз Бgo ВI'm going Гlagol Дwhich Еld Жlife.

    If before each letter carried an image, a meaning, then the current alphabet is just a set of meaningless sounds that wean us from figurative thinking. This is a diversion of the West against Russia, which began with Cyril and Methodius.
    1. Alexander Trebuntsev
      Alexander Trebuntsev 10 October 2018 08: 51
      +8
      Bearing bredyat, dear. What is the diversion of Cyril and Methodius? At least read the story of the creation of the Slavic alphabet. I don’t even want to conduct an educational program. And the brothers themselves called their alphabet a verb. She became Cyrillic 20 years after the death of Cyril, when it was modified and improved by unknown followers. At the time of creation, it was completely different and looked very little like the table that you drew here. At least to say that the letter A there looked like a slanting cross, since everything starts with the Orthodox from the cross. And they asked for the creation of the Slavic alphabet of the Morava (Czechs) as a condition for switching to Orthodoxy from paganism. That the service was held in Slavic.
      As for the reform, it was carried out earlier. Tsar Peter simplified the alphabet because it was even harder to write before. Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks need to say thanks for the quick implementation of the reform.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 10 October 2018 08: 58
        -3
        Quote: Alexander Trebuntsev
        Bearing bredyat, dear. What is the diversion of Cyril and Methodius?

        The fact that the books in Russia were before the adoption of Christianity, no one denies. We had our own alphabet and our own written language. The goal of the cut ABC is the same as the Unified State Examination - the stupidity of the people, their transformation into biorobots with three convolutions - to eat sleep and have sex.

        If you continue to think that this is nonsense, then in the near future do not be surprised that your ancestors will only mumble - this is quite enough for slaves.

        ps
        Cyril and Methodius adapted our alphabet to their (Greek) church writings. They were already stupid and imposed their stupidity on us, and it made no difference to me when they tried to call them Cyrillic.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 10 October 2018 09: 15
          -1
          Video in addition to my post above:

        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 10 October 2018 11: 08
          -5
          How do you EGE hate something, how many bribes it is impossible to give and take now ...

          As if you can pass the exam without teaching.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 22: 39
            +7
            Quote: EvilLion
            As if you can pass the exam without teaching.

            can
            Quote: EvilLion
            how many bribes it is now impossible to give and take ...

            even as they take and give
            MOSCOW, Aug 26 - RIA News. Corruption in schools in connection with the introduction of a unified state exam increased by 20-25 times, partially moving from the university entrance halls, and the cost of an average bribe for successful passing the USE in a decade increased 30 times in the capital, 10 times in the regions ...

            RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/education/20110826/424566241.html
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 11 October 2018 13: 55
              0
              It’s interesting how, when I entered the 2000, I passed the exams in a test form and the testers didn’t solve something completely, they were very complicated.
            2. mmaxx
              mmaxx 18 October 2018 12: 42
              +1
              If bribes have increased, it means that it has become more difficult to hand over. And then before the exam, teachers did not write essays, did not solve tasks, did not give well-known tickets and did not drag the "necessary" by the ears into a bleak future. I know that.
          2. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 11 October 2018 00: 14
            +3
            Quote: EvilLion
            how many bribes it is now impossible to give and take ...

            And then the Daghestani "hundred-point friends" smiled ... laughing Now, of course, we’ve gotten our hair done, but damn it ...
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 11 October 2018 01: 33
              +2
              Quote: Paranoid50
              And then the Daghestani "hundred-point friends" smiled ... laughing Now, of course, we’ve gotten our hair done, but damn it ...
              We can also smile as people in villages studied, studied and received such exe
            2. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 22
              -4
              Heirs of Stalin and Beria. laughing
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 October 2018 01: 42
            +2
            Quote: EvilLion
            How do you hate the exam, how many bribes you can’t now give and take .. As if you can pass the exam without learning.
            It's about another planet or some kind of naive, out of years .... ????? In addition to the terrible way that Vladimir Vasilenko wrote about, you can go to Ege courses for six months, for good money, pass after the courses.
          4. mmaxx
            mmaxx 20 October 2018 08: 32
            0
            Yeah. Let everyone take and buy in the store a collection of exams and try to guess something there.
        3. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 13: 52
          0
          Quote: Boris55
          The fact that the books in Russia were before the adoption of Christianity, no one denies.

          Show at least one.
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 10 October 2018 09: 07
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Trebuntsev
        Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks need to say thanks for the quick implementation of the reform.

        The Bolsheviks sought to disown as soon as possible everything that connected with tsarist Russia, and therefore acted without bureaucratic delays.
        By the way, later only by a miracle they did not switch to the Latin alphabet, the Trotskyists considered the Cyrillic alphabet "a priestly anachronism"
      3. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 October 2018 10: 19
        +3
        /// ::: At least read the history of the creation of the Slavic alphabet ::: ///. In general, the ancient GLAGOLITIC was preserved for a long time among the Luzhitsky Serbs, now living in Germany, as well as among the peoples of Yugoslavia. Now the Croats recognize it as their national treasure. Although, according to official figures, in the ancient Cyrillic alphabet there were 44 letters, and in the ancient Glagolitice --- 39!
    2. BAI
      BAI 10 October 2018 10: 24
      +2
      This is a diversion of the West against Russia, which began with Cyril and Methodius.

      Well that's cool. Then the diversion must begin from the baptism of Russia.
      And the dominance of printers, merchandisers, organizers, etc. - This is a direct war.
      1. Alf
        Alf 10 October 2018 21: 25
        +3
        Quote: BAI
        And the dominance of printers, merchandisers, organizers, etc. - This is a direct war.

        It's almost surrender. It is enough to count the quantity per minute from the box where the word "casting" is used.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 October 2018 22: 36
        +1
        Quote: BAI
        then the diversion must begin from the baptism of Russia.

        e so far are the truths, although we raped them in this matter, Russian Orthodoxy took a lot from Slavic paganism
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 10 October 2018 11: 06
      +2
      Walled to China, there are hieroglyphs with meaning.
  7. alebor
    alebor 10 October 2018 10: 15
    +9
    The author in the article mentions many times about the "reform of the Russian language", which is not true. It was not about reforming the language (in general, it is not clear how one can reform a language if it is not an artificial language like Esperanto, but a living, colloquial one?), But about the reform of spelling, i.e. rules for spelling words. Words can be written in different ways, using different spelling systems and alphabets, but this does not affect the spoken language of the people.
  8. BAI
    BAI 10 October 2018 16: 32
    +1
    The following should be noted:
    1. Lunacharsky noted that the reform of writing "stimulates the grinding of teeth among emigrants." Representatives of the tsarist administration, business, etc. took innovations extremely negatively. As indicated in the book "Russian Emigration in Yugoslavia", the emigrants rejected the new spelling, declaring it to be a creation of the Soviets, because "for the most part they considered themselves obliged to confront the Bolsheviks in everything."
    2. In the future plans was Latinization. Lunacharsky:
    "I have no doubt that the time will come for the romanization of the Russian script, but now it will be imprudent to act in a hurry."
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 18: 38
      -4
      In Harbin, the emigrants wrote in a new style and the Vlasovites wrote in their newspapers with a new spelling.
      Quote: BAI
      I have no doubt that the time will come for the Latinization of the Russian font

      Tito also tried to translate the Serbian language into the Latin alphabet. The chestniks of the Ustash people on the forehead carved letters in Latin letters.
  9. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 10 October 2018 19: 08
    -6
    By the way, I personally met illiterate young people in the SA in the late 80s.
    They can neither read nor write even in their own dialects.
    Others wrote letters to them under dictation.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 11 October 2018 02: 00
      +3
      Quote: Koshnitsa
      ...... I personally met in ......
      If you read it, you just haven’t met anyone, and everything is against the Soviet regime, it’s somehow very suspicious about meetings and life time.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 11 October 2018 11: 24
        -6
        What is it against the Soviet Government?
        They are just morons for Soviet power. Without exception laughing
    2. mmaxx
      mmaxx 18 October 2018 12: 45
      +1
      Morons have always been and they will remain. And they give birth. But our general level is much higher than the European one. Narrow specialists are better prepared there. The mentality still helps them in this.
  10. sah4199
    sah4199 11 October 2018 17: 09
    -3
    Quote: EvilLion
    This is in terms of the scale of the need for educated, it was acute, despite the fact that on the eve of the War, those born in 1917 were already 23-24 years old and all of them without exception had at least a primary education. And this, yes, was not enough, maybe even more than in the tsarist army of 1914, when it was simply not necessary to operate such a large amount of complex equipment and the overwhelming majority of the soldiers belonged to the same category of "private with a rifle", and in order to teach a person to walk in formation, to handle a primitive rifle, to stand guard and dig trenches, he does not even need to know "ABC".

    The Bolsheviks were bastards, they built some kind of tanks, and guns, for which the operating instructions in the form of not the thinnest books, but not anyhow, but with strange formulas. The Russian soldier does not need it, he added pieces to the three-line, yelled "Hurray", and ran into the attack, they dealt with this under Ivan the Terrible, and under Suvorov, and under Kutuzov ... When will they start banning you. ..

    And so, of course, it would be fun. And in my first grade, many barely read the syllables, and if you also explain why one word is written "e", and the other "yat" ... Whoever is familiar with Tatar, he knows what is there in the alphabet to Cyrillic 6 letters are added, the most raging "Tatar e", I don't have it on the keyboard, but it was often called that, it is written as an inverted "e", this is a polar fox of some kind, if a person does not catch sound differences, then he simply does not know , where "e" is normal and where is inverted. And "yat" is not even different sounds ... As in English, where half of the words are, in fact, hieroglyphs that do not obey any rules.

    Now come to work after 8 classes, you'll be as illiterate as before the war after 4's.


    1 Explain where “e” is written, and where “ѣ” is not required, as these were different sounds (“open e” and “closed e”). Similar sounds exist in many languages, for example in German there are sounds “Ä” and “E” - (“open e” and “closed e”). In Ukrainian, in words similar in sounding, instead of “e” is “e” (read E), and where “ѣ” is i.
    The sounds “and” and “i” are different (“short and” and “long and”).

    2 Thanks to such a reform, the Russian language has changed. Because in some old book I read the phrase "The Emperor pronounced ѣ like e and therefore it seemed that he was speaking with a foreign accent." The lack of the ability to distinguish open vowels from closed ones, long ones from short ones makes it difficult to study foreign languages, where it is very important, for example, English, German.

    3 The reform was not over. I don’t understand why they left “L” at the end of just a few words: such as “BEAM” and “NIGHT” - “H” in Russian is always soft, or “BAD” - “Sh” is always hard. It is also unclear why, after “C”, write “Y” or “AND” “CHICKEN”, “CIRCULATOR”.

    4 On this resource there was an article with the "bad Ukrainian language", the spelling of which is devoid of all these insanities.

    5 If the "clave" does not have the necessary letters - add. The easiest way is to program the characters in Word - the Insert-Character item allows you to do this, but there are already some things, for example letters with two dots - Cntr: + character, we get Ä Ü, etc. Settings are stored in the Normal.dot file, which must be additionally saved somewhere, so as not to be torn down when reinstalling the system. In this way, I added a set of Greek letters to myself, as poking all sorts of icons knocks down the pace.

    6 In Win XP, you can change the keyboard layout: Russian is stored in the file KBDRU.DLL, Ukrainian - in KBDUR.DLL. One or two versions of these files are stored on C drive in different versions of the system. The layout in them is not clear in what order, but approximately in the way the keys are located. UNICODE format. For numbers, 3 options are stored - the main one, with CAPS LOCK turned on, with Shift pressed, for letters - 2 options each. So I just replaced the individual bytes in the files in order to use the layout that was familiar to me since Win 3.1 (there you could legally make a personal layout).
  11. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 12 October 2018 05: 40
    +1
    1. Not explained: Kommersant had to be completely removed because, abusing the clause on its separation function, the publishers stubbornly continued to print it at the end of the words.
    2. Funny: Communist decrees did not mention ... Izhitsa. However, she immediately disappeared. (The argument to the question is whether the reform is ripe or not.)
  12. wooja
    wooja 12 October 2018 15: 49
    -5
    a new reform has ripened ... it is time to simplify even more, the Bolsheviks were too conservative
  13. Mikhalych
    Mikhalych 15 October 2018 12: 26
    -1
    Opinions about spelling quickly spilled over into Kolchak's discussion. The usual practice of individuals without a spine.
    Thus, the new spelling is not “arbitrariness of the Bolsheviks”, but the result of many years of work by leading Russian scholars from the old, pre-revolutionary Russia.
    . It is more correct to write a heap.
    https://vz.ru/opinions/2018/10/11/945597.html
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