Myths about the origin of Ukraine and the Ukrainians. Myth 8. Pseudo-Battle of Kruty

In the absence of glorious victories and achievements in Ukrainian mythology, myths are also created on the basis of a false perversion of insignificant facts and events that have no significance either in historical or in military terms. Such a myth is the “epic battle of Kruty”. There is even a public holiday in Ukraine: the Day of the Krut Heroes.

The myth is based on an 1918 skirmish in January at the little-known Kruta station in the Chernihiv region between a squad of Sich archers, as if defending the Ukrainian People's Republic of Grushevsky, and the Red Guard units advancing from Kharkov, the Ukrainian Soviet Republic.

According to the myth, a titanic battle of Kiev students took place at the Kruta station with a huge Moskal-Bolshevik horde, in which the “young patriots” fiercely resisted, responding to their “frontal attacks” with bayonet counterattacks, inflicted incredible losses on the Bolsheviks, and all died under the pressure of superior forces.

Interesting figures of the opposing sides, which are the myth-makers. According to their version, there were three hundred students, and tens of thousands opposed them, some claim that hundreds of thousands, bloodthirsty and evil Muscovites! Why three hundred?

Very simple: there was a battle of three hundred Spartans at Thermopylae against the grand army of the Persians, why should not the ukropatriots win the same grand victory?

The creators of this myth somehow did not know that the three hundred Spartans of Tsar Leonid were holding back an enormous army of Persians in a narrow gorge, and the “Battle of Kruty” took place in an open field, and with such a balance of power, this is just fiction.

What was really? The eighteenth year, the beginning of the civil war between the formed republics in Ukraine. The self-styled Ukrainian People's Republic is not recognized by the Ukrainian Soviet Republic and between them the war for power begins throughout Ukraine. If the USR with its capital in Kharkov is proclaimed by the elected delegates from the workers 'and soldiers' deputies, then the UPR was created by the natives of Galicia headed by the Austrian citizen Hrushevsky with the support of incomprehensible elected deputies.

Central Rada did not have any influence on the masses of soldiers who did not care about this self-proclaimed government. Even a mob of deserters who did not wish to return to the front and remained in Kiev, declaring themselves Ukrainian regiments, quietly dissolved as soon as it became known that the Bolsheviks were approaching.

For her defense, the self-appointed Rada was able to gather only a few detachments, mainly from the Galician youth. Towards the upcoming Bolsheviks was sent to the kenn of the First Yunatsk military school under the command of the centurion Goncharenko, about 600 junkers with 18 machine guns, and the Student kenn of the Sich archers, about 120 students and gymnasium students.

Modern myth-makers claim that both groups consisted of students and high-school students who did not have any combat training. Another lie. Among the military cadets of the military school and the guards of the Sich Riflemen, young Galicians prevailed - having combat experience of former soldiers of the Austro-Veger army, prisoners of war and their fellow countrymen who flooded Kiev in 1917 after the collapse of the front.

By the personal order of Grushevsky, they were enrolled in a military school and for study at Kiev University. He knew well whom he could rely on, in which case. In a hundred of Sich Riflemen there was one company, really consisting mainly of untrained students and high-school students, among them also came from Galicia. The squadron was commanded by the centurion Goncharenko, who later became one of the first officers of the Galichina SS division in 1944. These are the UNR were defenders.

The Galicians did not resist the evil Muscovites under the Kruty, but one of the detachments of the government of the Ukrainian Soviet Republic, sent to evict the Central Rada to the Austrian Galicia, from where most of its leadership arrived and where it was subsequently expelled. A detachment from Kharkov came to Kiev with one armored train and about 3600 man, formed in the eastern regions from Little Russian Red Guard and Baltic sailors, Primakov Cossacks and sympathizers

Goncharenko's detachment was sent to Bakhmach, but since its population was determined to support the Bolsheviks, he decided to take up positions near the railway station Kruty. Understanding that they would not be able to stop the enemy, Goncharenko ordered that the ways be dismantled, since the Bolshevik detachments "seized the Ukraine" by driving around on trains.

So the battle of Kruty, about which so many tales and outright nonsense are being written about, took place between the Galician mercenaries of the Central Rada and the troops of the Little Russian government. There was no great battle. Juncker organized an ambush from two sides of the embankment, as a result of which a detachment of Red Guards fell under machine gun fire. A firefight began, and in the evening the Red Guards organized a detour on the flanks and seized the station, forcing the “Krut heroes” to flee to the train on which they arrived.

At this time, their commanders made a drinking bout in the carriages and, seeing the danger, gave a signal to leave, leaving to fend for themselves fleeing warriors. During the stampede, they forgot about the very same company of students of about 35. The commander of the student hundred was wounded at the very beginning of the battle, there was no one to direct the retreat, and the company, retreating at dusk, got lost, went directly to the station, already taken by the Red Guards, and captured.

The wounded were immediately sent to hospital in Kharkov. The remaining 28 people were shot the next morning by order of Muravyov, who commanded the offensive. He already reported on the “rout” of the Central Rada troops led by Petliura himself and three dozen captured youths could not serve as evidence of his convincing victory.

That's all over, it should only be added that the Galician junkers who fled from the battlefield became the main striking force a few days later while crushing the uprising of workers at the Arsenal, shooting more than 1,500 workers who rebelled against the Central Council. Naturally, no Kruts saved the Central Council, she fled from Kiev and a month later returned to the German occupation bayonets.

Perhaps no one would have known about this purely ordinary civil war event, but the brother of the then Foreign Minister of the UNR Alexander Shulgin was among the dead, and the UNR government just needed a feat and heroes to justify their shameful flight from Kiev, the signing of the Brest-Litovsk peace and the German occupation of Ukraine.

Grushevskiy decided to defeat the Krutami to make an epochal battle and turn the shot students into "heroes". To this end, he gave a ceremonial reburial of the dead in March. Since Goncharenko, in his report on the great battle, wrote about the 280 dead, prepared 200 coffins, but ... under the Kruty they found only 27 bodies and 18 of them were buried with fanfare in Askold grave. The rest simply fled, and Goncharenko recorded them in the dead.

Almost half of those shot were representatives of Galicia, and the cult of Krut heroes was born there. From the civil war, they did not miss the occasion of the exaltation of the pseudo-battle at Kruty. In the UPA gangster army in 1944, there was even a “Kruty” formation and the tradition was established to celebrate this day as a national holiday. After the orange Sabbath, Yushchenko forced everyone in Ukraine to consider it a public holiday.

So, instead of honoring the true heroes of Ukraine, Galician myths are being imposed, aiming to erase the memory of the heroic past. Instead of honoring the arsenal heroes who rebelled against the puppet government, all are forced to honor the Galician mercenaries. Corrode the memory of 81 young heroes-Krasnodontsy, who lay down their heads in the fight against the Nazis. Destroy the monuments and the heroes of the Komsomol.

Kruta did not pull on Thermopylae, no matter how hard the followers of Grushevsky tried to drive into the heads of the younger generation another myth about the heroic past of the “fighters” for Ukrainians. The people were and still have their heroes. The myth of the “epochal battle of Kruty” is one of the fragments of lies and delusions, which hypocritically try to impose on all of society as a role model in the struggle for the interests of a non-existent “Ukrainian nation”.

Comments

[Olgovich]

What really happened? The eighteenth year, the beginning of the civil war between the formed republics in Ukraine. Self-styled The Ukrainian People’s Republic is not recognized by the Ukrainian Soviet Republic and a war of power begins between them throughout Ukraine. While the UPR with the capital in Kharkov was proclaimed elected delegates from workers' and soldiers ’deputies, the UPR was created by people from Galicia led by an Austrian citizen Grushevsky with the support of unclear who elected deputies.

In fact, the author, fighting the myth, the author repeats .... another myth created by the Bolsheviks: the UPR was recognized Bolsheviks in the Council of People's Commissars address to the All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets on the day of its opening. They thought that the congress would be Bolshevik and that power in the UPR would pass to the Bolsheviks. But .... The Bolsheviks tried to organize this congress in the same way as the so-called. illegitimate "2nd Congress of Soviets" in Petrograd on October 25, 1917. That is, by inviting deputies not of ALL councils, but mainly of those where the Bolsheviks prevailed, thus securing a "majority" at the congress. But having already had a clear experience of the same cheating of the Bolsheviks with the 2nd Congress, the Soviets were on their guard and sent their delegates, regardless of the "invitations" of the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks were in the overwhelming minority, they were simply dared: for 2500 delegates there were ... 5% - a small handful of 125 people. And this is not surprising: in Malorossia and in the elections to the Uchr. The assembly of the Bolsheviks won 9% of the vote. And so these went to Kharkov and created the so-called. USR, which thus turned out to be even more self-styled and less legitimate.

Kruty does not pull on Thermopylae, no matter how hard the followers of Grushevsky try to drive into the heads of the younger generation another myth about the heroic past of the "fighters"

Certainly, this is the pra-propaganda nonsense and lies of Grushevsky and the company, and, moreover, it is ridiculous. . But why does the author not write that the creator of this nonsense, the leader of the Ukrainian nationalists, an ardent Russophobe Grushevsky (with his company of Russophobes!) Was .... INVITED officially by the Bolsheviks in the Ukrainian SSR to implement HIS Russophobic ideas for the Ukrainization of Little Russia ? That he successfully implemented with the full support of the Bolsheviks.
The result is, see ...

PS Lies can not be defeated by another lie and omissions, IMHO.

[Antares]

Quote: Olgovich

Was officially invited by the Bolsheviks in the Ukrainian SSR to implement HIS Russophobic ideas for the Ukrainianization of Little Russia?

abstracting from the words "Little Russia and Russophobic" -but if you cannot win, then you need to lead, which they did. Here is a simple philosophy and process.

[Foul skeptic]

It seems to me that with each subsequent article in the cycle, the cycle deviates more and more from the declared topic "about the origin of Ukraine and Ukrainians."

Interesting figures of the opposing sides, which are the myth-makers. According to their version, there were three hundred students, and tens of thousands opposed them, some claim that hundreds of thousands, bloodthirsty and evil Muscovites! Why three hundred?

If only they gave examples, the names of the mythmakers. And then refuting the "myth", creating a new one is something.
Let the author come in even to Ukrainian Wikipedia and read an article about the battle of Kruty. I did not see any myths described by the author.

The creators of this myth somehow did not know that the three hundred Spartans of Tsar Leonid were holding back an enormous army of Persians in a narrow gorge, and the “Battle of Kruty” took place in an open field, and with such a balance of power, this is just fiction.

The author knows about the Battle of Thermopylae, apparently, just at the level of the legend of the "300 Spartans".
And besides, he is deceiving about a clean field. The positions of the Unr-sheep were arranged well in advance and on the outskirts of the settlement, but the Bolsheviks advanced from an open field. And besides, it is silent that the Unr-sheep had support for two armored trains and a field gun, while the Bolsheviks did not have fire support at first.
So, what did the author see fantastic in that, in this situation, the smaller group could resist for some time?

[Nagaibak]

Fight under Kruty?))) For the Sumerians, this is normal. After 50 years, they will paint about the heroic breakthrough of their rusty tubs across the Crimean bridge.)))

[Dimka75]

This is not a "history" supported by facts and not even a mythology with permissible distortions of facts for some kind of theory, but an opus of an embittered, offended Ukrainian - Ukrainophobe

[yehat]

300 untrained twists under the steep fought with billions of not cool "reds"
and, having suffered trillions of losses, the Reds won, but they were able to kill only 28, the rest, under the influence of Svidomo, were completely immune to any weapon and did not die, they got bored of fighting and they returned to digging the sea, and the surviving “Reds” miraculously returned to the Gulag to dictate to Solzhenitsyn how difficult it is for them to live and die, because they can't do anything else.

[NG inform]

In our time, aversion to Ukrainians - should be the norm, they are worse than igilovtsev.

[Warrior2015]

Quote: NG inform

In our time, aversion to Ukrainians - should be the norm, they are worse than igilovtsev.

Did you communicate with igilovtsami to assert a category? Maybe they are almost brothers to you?

[NG inform]

I talked with Svidomo, this is enough.

[Trilobite Master]

Personally, I already understood that Ukraine and everything Ukrainian has no right to exist because it did not exist before. They did not have a language, a national anthem, a coat of arms, no flag, no culture, no traditions, and on this basis we can safely say that modern Ukraine is a myth and it cannot exist.
I do not know how many myths the author is still planning to "expose", how many myths he will have to create or dig up from some dense sources, but, honestly, instead of proving, bleeding out in bile, the worthlessness and artificiality of Ukraine in all its aspects existence, the author would be better off perplexing himself with the search for ways to improve relations with neighbors. The bad corrupt Ukrainian government is trying to tear Ukraine away from Russia, making every imaginable and inconceivable effort for this, and the author and similar commentators help them in every possible way.
I remember, the Ukrainian authorities, wanting to regain the Crimea, cut off his water, turned off the electricity ... It did not help for some reason ...
And tell me, the smarter than this Ukrainian authorities, the author and many others who are doing the same thing now - they are trying to kick more painfully and to call the neighbors much worse, and they expect, probably, that he will want to be friends, like the Crimeans should there was a desire to return to Ukraine.
Guys, is it not time to write the other way around - about the huge contribution of Ukraine to the development of the USSR, about the Ukrainian heroes, workers, scientists, about the similarities, not differences of our peoples, about common interests in politics, the economy?

[Gopnik]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Personally, I already realized that Ukraine and everything Ukrainian has no right to exist because it did not exist before.

Strange conclusion

Quote: Trilobite Master

They had no language, no anthem, no coat of arms, no flag, no culture, no traditions, and on this basis we can safely say that modern Ukraine is a myth and it cannot exist.

Why? Can. Just do not have to invent a story for yourself, but honestly write about what happened and how it appeared.

Quote: Trilobite Master

And tell me, the author is smarter than this Ukrainian government and many others who are doing the same thing now - they try to kick a little harder and call their neighbor even better, and at the same time expect that he will have a desire to make friends

The author "tries to kick" not the neighbor, but this very power. If we are condescending to her myth-making, then soon all over the world Anna Yaroslavovna will be called "Ukrainian", and Prince Vladimir "Ukrainian prince", as they are trying to do now. Or then one should not be surprised at the attempts to split the Russian Church under the cover of completely wild ignorant comments from the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Because this ignorance will become generally accepted.
And "smart neighbors" will not be offended. They understand that they are part of the once single Russian people, and they will always have a choice - to be part of the new people "Ukrainians" (in the end, ethnogenesis is a natural process, and new peoples, under the influence of political processes always appear as "Austrians "for example) or to be a part of the Russian people, like their ancestors, without succumbing to simplification and savagery. It was not for nothing that Gumilev said, "If a Ukrainian gets smarter, he becomes Russian."
And the "Ukrainian government" is trying to dissolve Ukraine in Galicia, to pass off the "heroes" of Galicia as heroes of Ukraine, the flag of Galicia as the flag of Ukraine, etc. Therefore, they have heroes, the Cossacks of the traitor Vyhovsky, who fought together with the Crimeans against the Little Russian and suburban Cossacks who remained loyal to the united and common Russian state; Mazepa's Cossacks surrendered to the Swedes, not Skoropadsky's Cossacks or Sloboda Cossacks; Sich Riflemen defending Makovka, and not Little Russian soldiers who stormed it.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Gopnik

The author "tries to kick" not the neighbor, but this very power.

Only the Ukrainians themselves can and should kick "this very power". Attempts to kick it from the outside are perceived as interference in internal affairs. When someone fires Putin from behind a hillock, personally, this can cause a wide variety of reactions in me - from condescending contempt to deep satisfaction, they say, everything is correct, but these screams do not cause me to think about the need for a change of power. It would be strange, in my opinion, to talk, for example, about the wretchedness of Poroshenko by those who elected him, and rely on their understanding and support, even if this wretchedness does not cause any doubts among those or others.
Similarly, their hymns, emblems and holidays. These are their hymns, emblems and holidays, invented by their power, which they have chosen. Let him draw a line with a pitchfork, and sing Chopin's funeral march, if people do not like it, they will replace it. Do not change - it means like. This is their own business.
But the point is not even that the simple people of Ukraine, such stuffing, as this series of articles, are besyat (and cannot but piss off). If this impartial, objective and scientifically based research was conducted, I would not say a word, or rather, I would even praise it. But in these works, the author’s own position is unequivocally expressed, the articles themselves have a rather distinct emotional color and a biased, non-objective character. I understand that everyone has the right to express his opinion, but, firstly, there is another section for opinions, and secondly, this opinion, in my opinion, forms for the readers-citizens of Russia a sort of superiority over their neighbors, they say As for us, it’s all wrong, and you’re so-so, and, according to the author’s idea, the readers-citizens of Ukraine should form a sense of inferiority and envy. And the author wondered what of these feelings grows? That's right, hate. It turns out that the author voluntarily or involuntarily works for the government of Ukraine, consciously or unconsciously helps him in terms of planting Ukrainians hatred of Russia.

Quote: Gopnik

And "smart neighbors" will not be offended.

This is no offense. But, for example, Curious, whom we know as Viktor Nikolaevich, in my opinion, fits into the category of "smart" like no one else and his reaction to these articles does not need additional comments.

[Gopnik]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Similarly, their hymns, emblems and holidays. These are their hymns, emblems and holidays, invented by their power, which they have chosen. Let him draw a line with a pitchfork, and sing Chopin's funeral march, if people do not like it, they will replace it. Do not change - it means like. This is their own business.

Undoubtedly, I also don’t like it when they broadcast news from Ukraine about Ukraine, Syria, the State Department, etc., only they are shy about raising their retirement age.

But there is one "BUT", this is their business, while it does not concern us. Until the Russian princes are called "Ukrainian", until they celebrate imaginary "victories" over us, until they climb into our history, accusing us that we "stole" it. We must remember and understand that the "Ukrainian project" itself was born and nurtured as Russophobic, the whole point of which is to weaken Russia, to the howling of "Ukraine is not Russia" and "goddamn toby, I'm not a Muscovite", so pretend that we it does not always work out.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Gopnik

about raising the retirement age shy.

Here it is not necessary, about it, too, is already heard from each iron ...
And about the rest ...

Quote: Gopnik

Until the Russian princes are called "Ukrainian"

The fact of the matter is that these princes are the same Ukrainian and Belarusian as the Russians. Common story. Just like Charlemagne, both German and French and Italian, and Genghis Khan - Mongolian, Buryat, Kazakh, Uygur, etc. They have the same right on these princes as we do - no more and no less.
Of course, the attempts of their current government to appropriate all the achievements of progress cannot but cause a response, but my reaction is closer to bewilderment (in the style of "Are they serious?") Or just to fun (in the style of "Oh, how!" ). By themselves, these attempts are stupid and unnatural, and therefore futile.
This is not the first time I’ve been saying: the whole of Ukraine is ruled by a bunch of bastards, completely scanty in quantity but very active. If at the same time no more than ten thousand people are taken out of this society (only!) And isolated for different periods of time, from five years to life, then by the time the first people start to leave, everything will be in order in this state. Ten thousand people. Of the forty-odd millions. Less than twenty-five thousandths of a percent. Yes, their population decreases annually by two hundred thousand for natural reasons.
I think it's time to leave them alone. Forget about them, and remember only if there is any misfortune (I would not want to) or, on the contrary, joy — no more often than we remember Zimbabwe or Tunisia. And, of course, click on the hands when trying to get into our wallet. And what they do with their historical legacy is their personal business. To steal something from us in any case will not work out - only at home.

[Gopnik]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Here it is not necessary, about it, too, is already heard from each iron ...

one can hear what a correct and wise decision it is, and how generously they reduced the age for women from 55 to 60 years.

Quote: Trilobite Master

The fact of the matter is that these princes are the same Ukrainian and Belarusian as the Russians. Common story. Just like Charlemagne, both German and French and Italian, and Genghis Khan - Mongolian, Buryat, Kazakh, Uygur, etc. They have the same right on these princes as we do - no more and no less.

No, it is not. These are the Russian princes, the Rus state. Belarusians and Ukrainians broke away from a single Russian ethnos much later, and their independent statehood appeared only in the 20th century .. During the time of Charlemagne, Germany with the "Germans" and Italy (moreover, the Italians, as far as I know, breathe quite smoothly for Charles) existed, but Belarus and Ukraine with Belarusians and Ukrainians did not exist at the time of Vladimir and Anna Yaroslavna. As far as I know, Kazakhs and Uighurs have no claim to Genghis Khan.

Quote: Trilobite Master

By themselves, these attempts are stupid and unnatural, and therefore futile.

Unfortunately not. Previously, they also thought about attempts to separate “Belarusians” and “Ukrainians” from a single Russian ethnos, but in the end they did quite well; in 1991 it was believed that it was impossible to separate the BSSR and the Ukrainian SSR from Russia, they say, the common fate, millions of Russians there and all that, but since 1991 millions of ethnic Russians, even those who do not know the Ukrainian language, have completely rewritten themselves as "Ukrainians".

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Gopnik

At the time of Charlemagne, Germany with the "Germans" and Italy (moreover, the Italians, as far as I know, breathe quite evenly towards Charles) existed,

There were tribes of Franks, Burgundians, Lombards, Saxons, etc. The French and Germans appeared in the XIV century as well as the Russians. The division into Ukrainians and Belarusians began to take shape at the same time.
The process of ethnogenesis is continuous - some ethnos are leaving, others take their place, some break up, somehow merge into something new ...
What we now see in Ukraine and in Belarus is simply the process of finalizing the emergence of new peoples. Due to certain political reasons in Ukraine, this process has acquired some ridiculous, tragicomic form, unlike Belarus, where everything goes more civilized. But as a matter of fact, both Ukrainians and Belarusians are moving in the same direction and the essence is already fully formed ethnic groups, self-sufficient and able to develop independently. It is possible to be friends with them or not to be friends, but to make them as we no longer succeed, nothing can be returned back. Even by force, or rather, the more violent way. You need to accept this and treat it as a given - calmly. Just in the Slavic family were born two more people, that's all.
And what is happening now in Ukraine, I mean this wave of Russophobia - just foam. I would like it to be quickly blown away by the wind of history, after which Russia and Ukraine will be able to build normal parity relations. The main thing is not to beat up another portion of this foam with publications similar to this one.

[Gopnik]

Quote: Trilobite Master

There were tribes of the Franks, Burgundians, Lombards, Saxons, etc. The French and Germans appeared century that way in the XIV

At the same time, there were, first of all, "Gallo-novels" and "Germans", who clearly distinguished themselves from each other. Thanks to political processes and the formations of states, the first took shape in the French, the second in the Germans, from which the Austrians later separated.
The Russian people of that time did not have such problems - the language was Slavic, while, according to Zaliznyak, it was divided into "Novgorod" and "Kiev-Suzdal" variants. The Russian people of the Russian state remained "Russian", just like their ancestors.
The Russian people of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania became Belarusians, the Russian people of the Polish kingdom became Ukrainians. And they became such quite late. If they remained in a single Russian state - Russia, as parts of the triune Russian people, then Anna Yaroslavovna and Vladimir would be their princes, as they were before the collapse of RI. And if you decide to be new independent ethnic groups with different names, with statehood taking shape in the 20th century, then there is nothing to open your mouth on a strange loaf - on the Russian heritage and Russian history.
Those. A Ukrainian can consider Vladimir "his own" only with the clarification "he is a Russian prince, and in those days our ancestors were also Russian"

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Gopnik

And if you decide to be new independent ethnic groups with other names,

It's not about what they "decided", but about what they have become. Nobody decided anything. Some politicians tried and are trying to divide, others - to unite back, this process has been going on for half a millennium - some are promoting and accelerating it, others slowing down, but it still went, goes and came to its end. We are different peoples of the same root. Dot. Now they are trying to deprive Ukraine of its roots - another matter. But that's their business. Of course, their people cannot exist without roots, and as a people they will perish. People will live, but there will be no people - some will scatter to Russia, some to Poland, some to Hungary or Romania. Once again, this is their business. They will survive - well done, no means no. There is nothing we can do to help them, so let's leave them alone.
I propose to discuss the coat of arms of Zambia, the national anthem of Indonesia and the flag ... well, let's say, Swaziland.

[Talgarets]

Kazakhs and Uighurs do not pretend to Genghis Khan, as far as I know

Even as they claim! (the main trend - the state of Genghis Khan - this is the first Kazakh khanate).
It’s just that the majority of Kazakhstani myth-makers (and believe me, we have them no less than in Ukraine and in Russia) write in the Kazakh language, incomprehensible to Russian readers. In addition, for a number of reasons, local Kazakh myth-making is not advertised in Russian sources.

[Topgun]

Quote: Gopnik

These are Russian princes, states of Russia

:)) those princes to which Ukraine "claims" can quite easily claim and "Norwegians" (Scandinavians) ...
they should not be "privatized" so actively.

[already a Muscovite]

Quote: Trilobite Master

bewilderment (in the style of "Are they serious?")

The fact of the matter is that they are serious. They do not just believe it. They kill for it.
How many years did they not pay attention to them? They’ll probably get mad. And they did not go crazy. They freaked out.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Trilobite Master

common people of Ukraine such stuffing as this series of articles, enrage (and cannot but enrage).

Articles "enrage", but the fictional "story" itself does not "Enrage" Krut in the Ukrainian interpretation?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Guys, is it not time to write the other way around - about the huge contribution of Ukraine to the development of the USSR, about heroes Ukrainians, workers, scientists, about the similarities, and not differences, of our peoples, about common interests in politics, economics?

So almost HUNDRED YEARS just this and wrote. And under this, they also generously gave-Russian lands, money, people.

How did it end?

Few gave ?!

[Gopnik]

Quote: Olgovich

How did it end?

And so it ended. In our country, for some reason, all these calls "do not offend your neighbors" lead to the fact that they "offend" our own Russians.

[Antares]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Guys, is it not time to write the other way around - about the huge contribution of Ukraine to the development of the USSR, about the Ukrainian heroes, workers, scientists, about the similarities, not differences of our peoples, about common interests in politics, the economy?

Are you ... this is an undermining of the basics. If you yourself have lost (handed over / did not do anything to hold on or even worse, you yourself have set up Krymnash), you need to make sure that you don’t feel sorry for the lost. Better yet, imagine it the right decision. It means that it is most profitable to level the value and give everything negativity.
Voila - the promotion of such opuses and authors.
And then the separation will go in the interaction of all partners. And Kiev and Moscow ... the efforts of one side usually do not work quickly. But the efforts of the two sides very quickly reach the goal.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Antares

or even worse, they themselves set up Krymnash)

Enough to "talk" about the "contribution" of "Ukraine", which, in fact, did not exist. If there were any successes, it was only at the expense of Russian resources. You didn't even want to defend your lands in 1941, surrendered en masse and met the Nazis with bread and salt.

And the Russian lands transferred to you by the Soviet government will have to be returned, as well as Kiev, which was bought from the Poles for Russian money. You can leave to yourself what you had under Bogdan Khmelnitsky in 1654. This will be fair.

[Curious]

"Ostap suffered." The author has completely lost control over himself and the sense of reality, inventing myths and refuting himself. Even our Vyatrovich did not think of all that nonsense that Apukhtin piled on. Doesn't the administration of the site see that the only thing these "creations" can claim is the discrediting of the "History" section?

[Looking for]

What, natsik.nobid for "newborn" Vitchyzna? But B. Khmelnitsky. Did not feel sorry for the Uniates. Although they were his fellow-Ukrainians, he chopped like cabbage.

[Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich]

The mythical "history" of the so-called "Ukraine" cannot be discredited,
even if you really want to :-)))
Well, I understand that you personally are much closer and sweeter to the story of the former
personnel tsar’s captain (present major) Averky Goncharenko,
who honestly spent 2,5 years in the trenches of the 1st World War, and when
headed in 1917 after another frontal wound kUїvskuyu school
warrant officers, suddenly completely lost his mind on yumychnomu mythical
"Ukrainian" and rolled ...
First up to Petliura Pan-Colonel, and after a quarter of a century
and even before the SS Hauptsturmführer at the headquarters of the Galizien division already on
side of those against whom he sat in the trenches from 1914 to 1917.
Well this is how it was necessary to stop respecting yourself ...
By the way, it was this Goncharenko who in the summer of 1944 brought out near Brody
alive the largest group scattered in the surrounding forests
XEPoiv back to their Aryan masters :-)))
Just out of all the rabble of "Galizien", he was the only one,
who had considerable real combat experience ...

Such characters are much more interesting to you, right ?!
Well ... make them healthy ...

[Antares]

Quote: Curious

not even thought of our Vyatrovich.

Vyatrovich is trying, but they don’t take him seriously (if you remember his tricks with the holidays).
Yes, and he is trying to "fight" with Russian or Polish influence ...
But the author is specifically with one and it seems that he has something serious with emotions. One insult is not enough, then you need something more. Maybe money?

Quote: Curious

Doesn't the administration of the site see that the only thing these "creations" can claim is to discredit the "History" section?

Come on .. I’ve always been interested in waiting from them - when they both get together) Samsonov and he, and there are others)
... One writes that we are not and never were. The second is that we are Russians. And while everyone agrees that all the bad "nashi" were Ukrainians. And all the good ones are Russian .. And then I feel cheerful and my mood rises. That is, there is nothing more than standard psychology here.
It is interesting to read the History section - when Ukraine and Russia are not there!

[Antares]

Yuri Apukhtin

in pursuit of debunking some myths, writes the second ..

Interesting figures of the opposing sides, which are the myth-makers. According to their version, there were three hundred students, and tens of thousands opposed them, some claim that hundreds of thousands, bloodthirsty and evil Muscovites! Why three hundred?

because the author so wants to debunk something
We take Ukraine Skye Wiki (after all, it is it that is edited by Ukrainians)
read

Vіyskovі sily UPR nearly 1065
2 armored hooks, panzerniki.
Mikhail Muravyov-about 3000

That is, about a thousand against about three. What 300 against thousands ??
The true meaning of this skirmish is also written there! The delay of the advancing Muravyov, which gave the signing of the Brest Peace and recognition of the UNR. And the fact that the UNR itself, in addition to the students of Kiev, I repeat for the author, is not Galicians - namely, young Kievans, there was no one to protect. After all, young people are the most ideological and infected with all sorts of patriotism .. and as a rule they die first of all in all sorts of conflicts.
It is far from being considered to be a great feat to spend life in the name of the politics of some Bolsheviks, communists, and other ideologists .. (including nationalist ones). After all, all governments and all leaders use our animal instincts (which are the strongest among adolescents) to solve their problems ... moreover, for free and mediocre. One can only pay tribute to the idea and death of young people. The shooting of youth by Muravyov also does not paint the Bolsheviks in any way! After this, you can hate them. What you would expect.
Puppet Kharkiv Ukraine against the same pro western Kiev Ukraine at that time resulted in the death of many people. And myths are written on both sides. Searching for cases and dousing other people's examples ...
ON I need to learn reconciliation, then there was no fluffy and white. Everyone was bloodthirsty in their ideology. Won the most decisive, not afraid of violence and blood to achieve the goal.
He wrote too much. Indeed, the author has a completely different goal ... I repeat - trying to pour mud on some myth-makers, he becomes exactly the same ... no better and no worse. Just the same.

[LeonidL]

That's right - mythologists are trying to create the history of a country of misunderstanding, instead of the real history of Ukraine, as part of a great country. What misfortune the Communists have done by blinding this pseudo-state! Why do Ukraine and Russia, the Russian Empire and the USSR need Galicia with its absolutely non-Ukrainian population?