Military Review

Tricky comments. In perspective space without Russia

227
You know, even annoying. I just want to close the page, take a sip of tea (or not tea) and languidly say: “It's boring, girls ... Well, really, it's boring ...”


"The United States plans to abandon the Russian engines RD-180 over the next five years."


Well, yes, I heard already. And more than once. AND? Then what? This is how one classic literary character asked for a primus. So what next?

Already refused. Then they changed their minds. Now, again, the eternal “tra-la-la” has been tightened under the harmonica, we will not depend on Russia.

Boring Where do you go, gentlemen Americans?

Ah, BE Origin 4 from Blue Origin ... well, well ...



Yes, the company of Mr. Bezos received a contract for the supply of replacement of Russian power plants. So said in The Wall Street Jourmal, and I see no reason why they should not believe. So I believe that I received a contract.

According to this contract, Blue Origin will supply its BE-4 rocket engines for Vulcan launch vehicles manufactured by the United Launch Alliance, and the hegemony of Russia will come to an end.

American anthem against the backdrop of a flying flag and stuff like that.

Here is the dullness ...

There is a devil, and as always he sits in the details. And so good to sit.

The contract for the supply of engines does not mean the presence of them. As well as the word "promising" in relation to the Vulkan rocket means that there is a rocket, in principle, if there are engines. That is - in the future.

There is also a prospect, because the first BE-4 was assembled last year. And with 2016, there are trials. And the Americans are moving the whole project from 2011.

So there is a prospect (especially considering the fact with which the first BE-4 in May 2017 of the year was blasted with). The prospect is not particularly upset and fly on the RD-180. But in perspective, of course, yes. BE-4, of course, will replace the RD-180, and Vulcan will replace Atlas-5.

The first launch of these missiles is scheduled for 2020 year. And after 2023, the Vulkan will have to replace the Atlas-5 with the RD-180.

It remains to fill up the wagon with the words “if everything goes as it should,” “if successful on the tests,” and so on.

Who cares - fill words and expressions, the prospect is terribly interesting, but ... But since 2011, the United States, for all the comicity of the situation, is paying for using the Russian Soyuz and drilling holes in the ISS, because it is not able to pick up from an adequate state an astronaut

You can very long talk about the fact that the Russian technology is backward, we have a lot of marriage, we have Rogozin in power and so on.

In the US, there is no one. Alas. And there is only "Atlas-5" on the Russian engine.

It can be very long to argue who owns the rights to the engine, and that "whoever pays, he orders music," and so on ad infinitum.

It's boring.

For the time being, I clearly understand that the new “Space Shuttle” of the USA is not threatened by the word “absolutely”. As well as the new media "Volcano" exclusively in the future.

Well, that's okay, actually. Yes, reputation is unpleasant, but not fatal? Especially since this year it has become clear that whatever sanctions the United States might come up with for Russia, the Americans should not worry about their own.

Both titanium for airplanes and rocket engines for heavy carriers from Russia both went and will go. The State Duma will not allow other developments. EP on guard of good neighborly relations between countries, despite the sanctions.

But politics is politics. And space - by space. And in space, so far the United States has only loud statements and bright prospects.

I have nothing against it. Even if the BE-4 starts to work normally and the Vulcan begins to lift everything into orbit, from Coca-Cola to astronauts.

Even so, we don’t have to worry.

First, who said that in 2020, BE-4 will work? Is he himself? Difficult translation, anyone can make a mistake. Yes, and I doubt that BE-4 himself could say. Is it the one who saluted in May?

And to the "Volcano" the same questions. But everything is easier with a rocket. There will be an engine - there will be a rocket. It will not - well, it means it will not.

The fact is that at least until 2020, Americans will have to fly to the detriment of their image of the “first of the first” on Russian engines.

At least, I have a bad idea of ​​a situation in which they can lose RD-180. No, I can, but I don’t believe in it at all. The situation is simple: in Russia there should be no pro-American liberals in power. And given the liberality of our government team, it is not necessary to count on such bold steps towards the United States.

It's a pity.

In general, our NPO Energomash has a lot to strive for. And there is a vector in which you can pump money from 2023 (or even earlier).

It is clear that for this you need to expand your view from the West to the East.

There, China has long been making curtsies, which is absolutely not opposed, and even very much in favor of changing its YF-100, which is the most powerful Chinese, but by no means the most powerful in the world, to something more abrupt.

Colleagues from the PRC have hinted more than once that the RD-180 is the most it. Plus, for all this nonsense with licenses and patents, you can not bother, because the Chinese in their lives were wrapped in fried octopuses. Wholesale.

Of course, we are not talking about selling technology. More precisely, in China, we would like to buy technology, but ... Probably, we still have not so warm relations. But there are still five heaps of sanctions like Scripale's - and the relations will warm up just to the level of RD-180 sales to China.

Why not actually sell?

The result, shall we say, is twofold. You can twist in any way, and you can say that everyone in the space themselves can blind everything, anything. But if you look even without excessive patriotism, it will be very difficult to do this without Russia.
Author:
Photos used:
blueorigin.com
227 comments
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  1. milling machine
    milling machine 2 October 2018 06: 14
    +13
    Flying Macaroni Mask article. Not tired?
    How many laughed at him, and he did the deed. With BE4 it will be the same - Bezos "bone and go" and bed money, but the engine will finish.
    In the meantime, we are "businesslike and masterful" sneering, the Americans are taking over the space market. Oh yes, now we will look into China's mouth and hope that he will press us to his loving chest.
    1. Flies
      Flies 2 October 2018 06: 58
      +11
      In something I agree. It is not very pleasant to read "yes, we are the best, but we are all super-duper!"
      As a result, we have a loss of the market for comic commercial launches, a lack of scientific space research devices, and now a desire to create a joint lunar station with the Chinese.
      But! After yesterday's news: where is Musk and Tesla now? He will have to return 20 lemons of American presidents. So, that on the other side of the Great Puddle is also not all right.
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 2 October 2018 07: 34
        +3
        Quote: Flies
        where is Musk and Tesla now?

        Yes there
        Quote: Flies
        He will have to return 20 lemons of American presidents.

        Duc he is not poor, the world will not go.
        Quote: Flies
        So, that on the other side of the Great Puddle is also not all right.

        There is a war in which success does not always accompany the Mask. Many of his activities spoil the blood.
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 2 October 2018 09: 14
          0
          Yes there

          You are mistaken, dear, just the inverse, The mask was flooded from Tesla with a filthy broom. No one knows how it will end.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 2 October 2018 18: 00
            0
            Generally not flooded. He is still a long list of posts in Tesla including the general director.
        2. Flies
          Flies 2 October 2018 09: 42
          +4
          Yes there

          Eh, no. Pushed Comrade Musk from the post of chairman of the board of directors. So far Tesla. Moreover, for at least 3 years. And he will pay money from his "not poor" pocket, and not from the firm's funds.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 10: 06
            +2
            Quote: Flies
            And he will pay money from his "not poor" pocket, and not from the firm's funds.

            There 20M he, 20M Tesla, EMNIP.
            Quote: Flies
            Comrade Musk was nominated as chairman of the board of directors.

            This is normal. The situation when the CEO and the presenter is the same person is not normal. Conflict of interest and other problems of white people. In SpaceX Musk, only CEO.
            Quote: Flies
            So far, Tesla.

            Without for now. SpaceX is not a public company, the SEC does not apply to it. There is no conservatory, and the president is Shotwell.
          2. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 2 October 2018 10: 10
            +4
            Quote: Ros 56
            Mask flooded from Tesla with a filthy broom

            Quote: Flies
            Comrade Musk was nominated as chairman of the board of directors.

            Musk remained the CEO of Tesla, so he hasn’t gone anywhere from Tesla, he also leads you to evil.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 10: 35
              +3
              Quote: Puncher
              Musk remained the CEO of Tesla, so he hasn’t gone anywhere from Tesla, he also leads you to evil.

              It's hard to translate here. He was kicked out of the Genders (Chairman), but left as the Chief Executive Officer. The last position allows you to manage the current activities of the company. Chairman is more about shareholder relationships.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 2 October 2018 12: 48
        +1
        Quote: Flies
        As a result, we have a loss of the market for comic commercial launches, the lack of scientific apparatus for space exploration, .....

        We could be proud of our astronautics as long as it was a state enterprise. As soon as private traders and "effective managers" were attracted here, there was nothing to be proud of. I would not be surprised if our space technology is assembled by guest workers, and only those who are working on retirement remain from the old staff.
      3. anykin
        anykin 3 October 2018 01: 12
        0
        Quote: Flies
        As a result, we have a loss of the comic commercial launch market

        Market share is certainly good, but this does not cancel the development of national space exploration, without it in any way.
    2. Jerk
      Jerk 2 October 2018 07: 00
      +1
      Wait, is this the same Mask that the addict in his own words, and on which the third or fourth case has already been started? And what did she do? NASA refused from its heavy heavy lead of Teslamobiles to the orbit of the moon ...
      As the author said - boring. At least something new was invented, at least slightly, in profile and in the dark, which looks like truth
      1. rumpelshtilskin
        rumpelshtilskin 2 October 2018 07: 08
        +3
        Addict ... Not an addict ... This is the tenth thing. And the first is that Russia is now trying to take away from Musk its share of commercial launches, and not from Russia.
        Maybe the Russian government smokes something wrong? :)
        1. True
          True 2 October 2018 18: 52
          +5
          Quote: rumpelshtilskin
          Maybe the Russian government smokes something wrong? :)

          Go talk about agrentina and cocaine.
          1. True
            True 2 October 2018 18: 54
            +3
            And it’s not Russian. Jewish government of the Russian Federation. Well, gasoline superpowers or whatever they call themselves there.
      2. Henderson
        Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 09
        +13
        Quote: Jerk
        +2
        Wait, is this the same Mask that the addict in his own words, and on which the third or fourth case has already been started? And what did she do?

        the one that left Khrunichev without a commercial launch market and brought him to the brink of bankruptcy.
        1. Cannonball
          Cannonball 2 October 2018 21: 00
          +5
          Khrunichev is not in a difficult position because of Musk. There are enough of our own domestic "reformers" leaders.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 2 October 2018 21: 05
            -5
            It's just that we don’t have anything to run stupidly - that's Khrunichev in full opera.
            1. Cannonball
              Cannonball 2 October 2018 23: 24
              0
              And that too. By the way, for the same reason.
            2. Henderson
              Henderson 4 October 2018 13: 01
              -1
              Almost all customers who refused the services of Roscosmos went exactly to the Mask. And for some reason he does not feel a lack of orders.
              1. Cannonball
                Cannonball 7 October 2018 11: 30
                -1
                And to whom could they go yet?
                1. Henderson
                  Henderson 24 November 2018 01: 33
                  0
                  to the Indians or to Arianspace. But at prices they all play SpaceX
    3. shinobi
      shinobi 2 October 2018 07: 50
      -3
      Musk, let’s put it this way, has filled a promising niche with nothing. Not more. And these prospects are far from as bright as he delivers. His reusable missiles, a dead end, about which even under the Soviet Union the projects which Mask is realizing, were dead end because the money spent on after-flight maintenance is as much as the production of a new rocket.
      1. parma
        parma 2 October 2018 07: 58
        +10
        Maybe yes, maybe not .... Since the days of the USSR, many years have passed, many new technologies have appeared, etc. .... But nevertheless, he has occupied this niche, and we are not .... We were even squeezed out of it .. ..
        1. Berber
          Berber 2 October 2018 08: 39
          -2
          Of new technologies, only "digital". Iron, as it was, and remains
          1. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 2 October 2018 09: 05
            +2
            Quote: BerBer
            Iron, as it was, remains

            They began to use a lot of composite materials.
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 5 October 2018 06: 27
              0
              But where exactly?
          2. Henderson
            Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 10
            +11
            Quote: BerBer
            Iron, as it was, remains

            its two-stage kerosene rocket carries more than a 4-stage heptyl Proton, while weighing less and is reusable.
            1. True
              True 2 October 2018 18: 56
              +3
              Quote: Henderson
              its two-stage kerosene rocket carries more than a 4-stage heptyl Proton, while weighing less and is reusable.

              Yes, you are an agent of the State Department!
            2. Cannonball
              Cannonball 2 October 2018 21: 06
              +2
              Huh, you are fooling around, my friend. Even the FT, having an advantage in launch latitude, is inferior to the Proton in terms of carrying capacity in the reusable version. And in a one-off, their capabilities are close enough.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 22: 05
                +2
                Quote: Cannonball
                the reusable version is inferior to the Proton in terms of carrying capacity.

                The heaviest satellite launched by Proton at GPO?
                1. Sergey Goncharov
                  Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 23: 33
                  0
                  6300 kg. So - the mask FT in the case of the return of the first stage is still inferior (5500 kg, respectively). hi
                  1. Cannonball
                    Cannonball 3 October 2018 00: 04
                    0
                    Already under 6900 kg was a satellite.
                  2. plant15
                    plant15 3 October 2018 12: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                    6300 kg. So - the mask FT in the case of the return of the first stage is still inferior (5500 kg, respectively). hi

                    Wiki
                    7.08.18
                    The mass of the satellite is 7060 kg [172]. The first stage successfully landed on the Of Of Course I Still Love You platform, located in the Atlantic Ocean, 635 km from the launch pad [173]. The second stage brought the device to the planned supersynchronous geo-transitional orbit with parameters 259 × 18 060 km, inclination 27 °.
                    22.07.18
                    The mass of the satellite is 7075 kg, 4044 of which are fuel [164]. It is the heaviest commercial geostationary communications satellite ever launched and the heaviest of all launched by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle into geo-transition orbit [165]. The first stage landed on the Of Course I Still Love You platform. Given the high mass of the satellite if it is necessary to return the first stage, the second stage put it into a non-standard, subsynchronous geo-transitional orbit of 243 x 17 863 km with an inclination of 27 °, from where it transferred to the final geostationary orbit using its own engines
                    In short, a little more than 5t is output from block7. with the return of the first stage. So, Dear Sergey, as we see, is not inferior at all. Quite the contrary.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 13: 12
                      +1
                      Below Cannonball writes on this launch. There was no conclusion to GPO in the standard sense of the term. In order to form a GSO, the satellite needs to change the inclination (from the latitude of the cosmodrome to 0) and convert the orbit from elliptical to circular. For Canaveral, this is a total change in speed of 1800 m / s. The Telstar 19 Vantage was launched with an apogee much lower than GSO, so the withdrawal to GSO in his case required additional time and fuel.
                      1. plant15
                        plant15 3 October 2018 16: 45
                        0
                        OK . Wiki
                        Geo-transitional orbit (GPO) is the orbit that is transitional between the low reference orbit (DOE; altitude of about 200 km) and the geostationary orbit (GSO; 35 km).
                        This is the definition of the term gpo.
                        Here Falcon brought both satellites to 7 tons each with the return of the steps.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 18: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: plant15
                        OK . Wiki

                        Do you have any reading problems?
                        this is a very elongated elliptical trajectory of the spacecraft, whose perigee lies at the distance of the IEO from the Earth, and the apogee at the distance of the GSO (Goman – Vetchinkin orbit).

                        Quote: plant15
                        low reference orbit (DOE; altitude of about 200 km) and geostationary orbit (GSO; 35 km).

                        Quote: plant15
                        The second stage brought the device to the planned supersynchronous geo-transitional orbit with parameters 259 × 18 060 km, inclination 27 °.

                        The orbit 259 × 18 060 is a geo-transition from the point of view that the satellite left it for GSO in this particular case. But the standard GPO-1800 Canaveral is not in terms of missile performance.
                        Due to the problems of Breeze, the Yamal-402 satellite entered the non-calculated orbit 2011x3071 in 35672, which is higher than Telstar. This launch was partially successful, and the launch was also carried out by satellite engines. It cost the satellite about 5 years of life in orbit. The difference is that in the case of Telstar it was a planned situation, not an emergency. It was initially filled with more fuel.
                2. Cannonball
                  Cannonball 2 October 2018 23: 52
                  +1
                  "Proton-M" / "Breeze-M" - EchoStar 21 - weight 6 871 kg.
                  The launch to the GPO is 2300 x 35786 km with an inclination of 30,5 °, from where it, using its own engines, transferred to the final geostationary orbit.

                  FT / Block 5 - Telstar 19 Vantage - weight 7075 kg.
                  Given the high mass of the satellite, if it is necessary to return the first stage, the second stage put it into a non-standard, subsynchronous geo-transitional orbit of 243 x 17 863 km with an inclination of 27 °, from where it transferred to the geostationary orbit using its own engines.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 00: 27
                    +2
                    Quote: Cannonball
                    the second stage brought him to a non-standard, subsynchronous geo-transitional orbit 243 x 17 863 km

                    Uh-huh.
                    So far, the most difficult return launch with the conclusion to conventional GPO was MERAH PUTIH, 5800 kg, if I am not mistaken. So the Proton advantage in PN has a value in the range of 5800-6871 kg, but even for heavier satellites there are already different options.
            3. Berber
              Berber 10 October 2018 12: 39
              0
              Let's see what will happen next. Americans are adept at marketing. Well, that is, brains are skillfully powdered. Time will tell the truth.
      2. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 2 October 2018 09: 05
        +9
        Quote: shinobi
        His reusable rockets, the dead-end path, which Musk realizes when it was said during the Soviet Union. The deadlock is due to the fact that it takes as much money for the post-flight maintenance of a new rocket.


        Previously, a lot of things were said that by 2000 communism will be a city on Mars ...
        Where such information that post-flight service is more expensive? No one has specific figures, except Mask himself. Materials change - new alloys, composites. Diagnostic technologies are also changing - computers, sensors, industrial digital X-ray scanners, etc.
        1. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 2 October 2018 10: 12
          +3
          Quote: AVM
          No one has specific figures, except for the Mask himself.

          So here, and the numbers are not particularly needed, everything is already clear that diagnostics and maintenance are much cheaper than producing a new engine.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 2 October 2018 18: 54
            -3
            Quote: Puncher
            diagnostics and maintenance are much cheaper than producing a new engine.

            You compose, it’s just the opposite, now it’s cheaper to re-launch a rocket than to reuse a Bush.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 2 October 2018 21: 06
          -5
          Only scoops believed in all this.
        3. tarragon
          tarragon 2 October 2018 21: 32
          +3
          For all the time, Musk has carried out 61 launches. Of these, 13 were repeated. Of these 13, two missiles splashed down and were subsequently destroyed; 5 were burnt out in the atmosphere; it was not even planned to land them. Conclusions: Not a single stage of the Mask has been in space three times. Musk created a two-shot rocket. Maybe he is using spare parts from re-stages for new missiles, whereas how to explain the destruction of 7 missiles after re-launch. It can be assumed that there is nothing to use for the third launch. Here is such a "reusable" from the Mask. Is it worth the candle? Could it be the same as with Tesla "Oh, we are bankrupt."
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 October 2018 22: 01
            +1
            We made and began to launch the Falcon-9 "block 5". It is designed for 100 starts.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 22: 22
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              It is designed for 100 starts.

              Unfortunately, in Musk's case, the meme "that's when *, then we'll talk" has some right to exist.
              To date, Tarhun is right. The third time not a single flight flew, and for the next launches in the schedule are not worth it.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 3 October 2018 10: 26
                +1
                A few years ago, the possibility of one restart was denied. But 12 missiles with second-hand steps flew repeatedly. And successfully. In Block 5, the entire construction of the 1st stage was reworked: stiffeners were made, as in car bodies, the engines are bolted instead of a one-time welding. Etc.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 11: 32
                  +1
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  did stiffeners, as in car bodies, the engines are bolted instead of a one-time welding. Etc.

                  So who argues. Much has been done.
                  It’s premature to just talk about a 100-time rocket as something existing. Musk is not Rogozin, but nonetheless.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 2 October 2018 22: 26
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              We made and began to launch the Falcon-9 "block 5". It is designed for 100 starts.

              We’ll talk about him when he carries out these hundred launches.
              1. Sergey Goncharov
                Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 23: 35
                +1
                When he shows the time between 100 launches - to say (and to do) something will be too late. tongue
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 3 October 2018 06: 47
                  -4
                  Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                  0
                  When he shows the time between 100 launches - to say (and to do) something will be too late.

                  This does not affect us in any way, we will simply rejoice for our American "partners" when the occasion appears.
            3. Cannonball
              Cannonball 2 October 2018 23: 54
              0
              One missile per 100 launches, or still many dozens of missiles, some of which will be partially reused?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 00: 28
                0
                Quote: Cannonball
                One missile per 100 launches, or still many dozens of missiles, some of which will be partially reused?

                Who will tell you this? Wait and see.
              2. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 3 October 2018 10: 31
                +1
                One rocket per 100 launches. Between each flight there is a visual inspection, like passenger liners. Every 10 starts - prevention. Falcon engines operate at 2/3 of maximum power. After starting, they do not even have carbon deposits. Everything is done, as in passenger aircraft.
                1. Cannonball
                  Cannonball 3 October 2018 19: 42
                  -1
                  Your fantasies ...
                  And here is what the Americans themselves write:
                  It is expected that 30-40 first stages of the Falcon 9 Block 5 will be built, which will complete about 300 launches within 5 years before the completion of its operation. The first stage of Block 5 is designed for "ten or more" launches, without inter-flight maintenance.

                  So to passenger aircraft - as to China on all fours.
      3. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 17: 28
        +3
        In the USSR, as it were, - not all agreed with you by no means. For example, the deceased now, alas, crying glorious comrade Feoktistov just considered the path that Musk is now taking to be the main route for the development of means of launching for the foreseeable historical perspective - and the MTCC concept as a technical mistake. hi
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 2 October 2018 18: 56
          -2
          Quote: Sergey Goncharov
          Feoktistov just considered the path that Musk is now taking as the main route for developing means of launching for the foreseeable historical perspective - and the MTCC concept as a technical mistake.

          This Feoktistov was mistaken; the future is not at all with chemical missiles.
          1. Sergey Goncharov
            Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 20: 55
            +2
            Well - Konstantin Petrovich Feoktistov was something more knowledgeable in RCT than you. bully And so yes - the future lies with the anti-gravity engine! Sooner or later. Only - rather late than early. bully And before that - it is necessary to master the intermediate stages. So far - there is no alternative to the means of elimination on chemical fuels.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 2 October 2018 22: 17
              -2
              Quote: Sergey Goncharov
              Well - Konstantin Petrovich Feoktistov was something more knowledgeable in RCT than you.

              How many of them were venerable scientists who ended up wrong.
              1. Sergey Goncharov
                Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 22: 38
                +2
                In this case, the correctness of the "venerable" is rather confirmed. wink hi
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 3 October 2018 06: 49
                  -3
                  Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                  In this case, the correctness of the "venerable" is rather confirmed.

                  Apparently we already have colonies on Mars and the Moon? Nothing confirms his correctness, we have not achieved anything with his "main line".
                  1. Sergey Goncharov
                    Sergey Goncharov 5 October 2018 05: 11
                    0
                    Suddenly! - comrade Feoktistov not considered appropriate the colonization of the moon and Mars. Learn the materiel.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 5 October 2018 10: 06
                      -1
                      Quote: Sergey Goncharov
                      Suddenly! - comrade Feoktistov did not consider expedient the colonization of the Moon and Mars. Learn the materiel.

                      Somehow to pump up who there thought.
                      Suddenly! - Why is all this your nagging about Russia's lag in space - if comrade Feoktistov did not consider it necessary to master this very cosmos?
      4. Alex_You
        Alex_You 3 October 2018 02: 16
        +3
        Wait, if the reusable step is a dead end, then what is it: https://life.ru/t/science/1139636/rossiia_sozdast_svoi_piervyi_mietanovyi_rakietnyi_dvighatiel_i_mnoghorazovuiu_rakietu
      5. plant15
        plant15 3 October 2018 11: 30
        +1
        "For example, I have carefully analyzed some of his technical solutions with our specialists and I can say that we are ashamed, but we will use something."
        Rogozin
    4. Setrac
      Setrac 2 October 2018 18: 51
      -1
      Quote: frezer
      while we "briskly and skillfully" sneer, the Americans take over the space market

      What kind of beast is so wonderful - the space market? This is a fictional substance.
      1. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 20: 57
        +4
        No, it’s absolutely real. And even - breaking up into segments. Launch services market, spacecraft market, spacecraft services market ... bully
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 2 October 2018 22: 17
          -1
          Quote: Sergey Goncharov
          No, it’s absolutely real. And even - breaking up into segments. Launch services market, spacecraft market, spacecraft services market ...

          There is no such "market" in nature
          1. Sergey Goncharov
            Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 22: 40
            +2
            From the fact that you think so - this market not will disappear. bully
            "The problems of the Indian - the sheriff (in this case - the sheriffs) not ... "well, etc. hi
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 3 October 2018 06: 50
              -4
              Quote: Sergey Goncharov
              From the fact that you think so - this market will not disappear.

              Go ahead and bargain on this "market"!
              1. Henderson
                Henderson 3 October 2018 08: 29
                +1
                And Russia is just trading, buying imported electronic components, satellite imagery, weather forecasts, communication services and much more
              2. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 3 October 2018 10: 34
                +3
                It is customary to bargain in this market. The client chooses a more suitable cab for his companion product. Bargain on the price, term.
  2. Vard
    Vard 2 October 2018 06: 15
    -3
    And why actually we don’t sell to China ... I’ll copy ... So it’s hardly ... The Americans couldn’t ...
    1. rumpelshtilskin
      rumpelshtilskin 2 October 2018 06: 47
      +2
      Selling. And provide professionals.
      1. Jerk
        Jerk 2 October 2018 07: 40
        -2
        I have not heard about this. Where did you get it?
  3. rumpelshtilskin
    rumpelshtilskin 2 October 2018 06: 47
    +6
    I don’t understand the author’s snide joy!
    Brag about Russia, which is increasing its orbital grouping - I understand that. This is a matter of pride.
    But here! ..
    Here the author is glad that Russia is supplying engines to its geopolitical enemy! Let's imagine for a moment this "sur": Stalin is upset that the industry of Germany, which is at war with his country for life and death, in 1943 plans to abandon purchases of the B-2 engine from the USSR and will now use exclusively German tanks on its tanks. motors ... Huh?
    Obviously, it's time for someone to ask for a correction of perception of reality ...
    1. Jerk
      Jerk 2 October 2018 07: 43
      -1
      Two of you in history - the United States through Switzerland already until 1945 supplied bombing sights to Germany, nothing personal was just business. And with the geopolitical enemy of China, they have one concern - to increase trade.
      For those who are completely dull, the dependence of one country on supplies from another normally reduces the risk of war. If it’s not the sights just, but the engines and titanium, without which NASA will rise immediately
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 11
        +5
        Quote: Jerk
        The United States through Switzerland already until 1945 supplied bombing sights to Germany, nothing personal is just business

        Your smoke is clearly less quality than the Mask.
        Quote: Jerk
        and engines and titanium, without which NASA will rise immediately

        A Boeing flies on the RD-180, not NASA. NASA has RS-25 from the Shuttle and Solid Rocket Booster from it. As for titanium, the world's largest manufacturers are the USA and China. There will be at least some creeps - VSMPO-Avisma will find a replacement quickly. It is strange that they still endure.
        1. Cannonball
          Cannonball 3 October 2018 20: 03
          +1
          On the RD-180, not Boeing flies, but Lockheed. Boeing makes Deltas, and Lockheed Atlases.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 20: 31
            +2
            Quote: Cannonball
            Boeing makes Deltas, and Lockheed Atlases.

            You are right, thanks.
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 3 October 2018 22: 03
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          It is strange that they still endure.

          The mice cried, pricked, but stubbornly continued to nibble the cactus.
          The Americans are building another plant for the production of titanium products in Russia.
      2. Berber
        Berber 2 October 2018 08: 43
        +5
        How many times has this been discussed? It is profitable for us to sell titanium and engines. As well as cooperation with Boeing, etc. Why do not Americans impose sanctions on horrible terms, but only those in which we are direct competitors to them? Because it is profitable.
    2. True
      True 2 October 2018 19: 00
      +4
      Quote: rumpelshtilskin
      Obviously, it's time for someone to ask for a correction of perception of reality ...

      The fact that the main patriots have children in the United States does not bother you?
    3. Antares
      Antares 3 October 2018 12: 07
      0
      Quote: rumpelshtilskin
      Here the author rejoices that Russia supplies engines to its geopolitical enemy!

      The darkest, it is not quite the property of the Russian Federation, like manufactured smartphones in China ..
      three of the patent engines used to create the engines (in particular US6244041, US6226980, US6442931) are US patents.
      Even though the patents clearly indicate the owner - Otkrytoe Aktsioneroe Obschestvo “Nauchao-Proizvodatveabnoe Obiedianie Nauchao-Proizvodatvesnoe Obiediane“ Energomash ”Imeni Akademika VP Glushko” - it is stated that since there is a US patent, the owner is.
      There is debate, so whose is he. The main thing here is with someone’s money being built .. and this is American money ..
      The author rightly does that while rejoices. In the Russian Federation, goods are produced that so far are of interest to the American customer.
      But to make an instrument of this laugh is not worth it. Need / price versus difficulties that change ratios will lead to loss of production (transfer / change of supplier)
  4. parma
    parma 2 October 2018 06: 52
    +5
    Yes, the author is right, we now have engines, but they don’t have .... only the problem is that we have already had no progress for the first time in space, but they have ....
    And as for the hole in the ISS ... Well, let's say, I don’t believe the theory about the evil American who drills a hole ... I believe about the curved-armed installer (there have been cases), but there isn’t about the sick astronaut ...
    1. rumpelshtilskin
      rumpelshtilskin 2 October 2018 07: 10
      0
      I completely agree. Or why then fly into space with such idiots who drill holes themselves? Moreover, on the ship on which they descend to Earth !!!
      1. anzar
        anzar 2 October 2018 12: 46
        +5
        ... drill holes? Moreover, on the ship on which they descend to Earth !!!

        The orbital compartment is separated before the descent and burns into the atmosphere.
  5. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 2 October 2018 07: 22
    +5
    The USA is a technically developed country and it can make a rocket engine, a matter of money and time .... now or in 10 years they will do it. The only correct way out is to establish supplies to China without a license.
    1. rumpelshtilskin
      rumpelshtilskin 2 October 2018 07: 26
      +17
      Or is it better to do something good in Russia? Not being distracted by the failures of the United States, Ukraine and others? :)
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 2 October 2018 09: 08
        +2
        I have nothing against our Roskosmos .... but in order to build rockets, we need a load that we will put into orbit in such quantity .... do we have it? And nothing prevents in parallel to make the rocket themselves.
        1. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky 2 October 2018 16: 45
          +4
          In order to offer someone to put their load into orbit, you must first have what, moreover, with a competitive price, timing and reliability.
          There is a market for commercial launches - here's the load.
          And if you do not invest in new equipment, then you can not count on market share.
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 26
      +4
      Quote: Zaurbek
      .seichvs or 10 years later they will do it.

      They have engines full.
      Quote: Zaurbek
      The only correct way out is to establish supplies to China without a license.

      You cannot supply the RD-180 to China, because it is not manufactured in Russia. The iron in it is Russian, and the electronics, and, most importantly, the quality control system at acceptance, are American.
      You can supply RD-170 and RD-191, which the Chinese do not really need.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 2 October 2018 09: 09
        +1
        We still have not mastered the quality acceptance system? Working with the Americans?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 10: 09
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          We still have not mastered the quality acceptance system?

          No. Acceptance based on quality is a highly simplified term.
          Compare the accident rate of Zenith and Atlas.
        2. Henderson
          Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 14
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          We still have not mastered the quality acceptance system? Working with the Americans?

          nail the sensor and orientation upside down and mix up the solder for the motors because of the storekeeper is this called "quality acceptance system"?
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 2 October 2018 16: 31
            0
            Engine production is one thing, glider and rockets are another.
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 2 October 2018 19: 34
              0
              Orientation sensor on the Proton nailed on the contrary is not at all to the engine. And when the spaceport was confused ..
  6. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 2 October 2018 07: 27
    +13
    Pitiful Americans, they can’t make their own engine ... Oh, how did it happen that on 02.10.18 we have 9 starts, China has 26 !!!, and the USA has 24? All, forget about the Russian space, further it will only get worse. wassat
    1. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 2 October 2018 07: 57
      +17
      The point is not even in launches. Everyone somehow forgets that the main task of NASA, Roscosmos and other similar world organizations is the promotion of man into space. Roscosmos is not involved in this; it has become a cabman whose services are already of little interest to anyone. For example, Japan carries out few launches, in 2018 there are only five, but their interplanetary probes are explored by asteroids, Venus and Mars, the Sun, plans to launch to Mercury. JAXA successfully does what Roscosmos does not even plan. The last interplanetary mission (successful) is the Soviet Vega1 and Vega1, after that only failure and the subsequent void. What Roman is trying to be proud of is incomprehensible to me ...
    2. Weight
      Weight 2 October 2018 08: 16
      -6
      And the USA at what * launches * did * 26 !!! *?
      Psi ... And you know that in America engineers are 90% ... foreigners? Native Americans tend to take high-paying positions: lawyers, doctors, stock brokers, etc. where they pay a lot. They believe that visitors should be engaged in science and technology. Visitors do it well. smile
      Joke: What is MIT? The answer is a college in Boston, where Russian professors teach Chinese students.
      1. parma
        parma 2 October 2018 08: 29
        +8
        Quote: Kettlebell
        And the USA at what * launches * did * 26 !!! *?
        Psi ... And you know that in America engineers are 90% ... foreigners? Native Americans tend to take high-paying positions: lawyers, doctors, stock brokers, etc. where they pay a lot. They believe that visitors should be engaged in science and technology. Visitors do it well. smile
        Joke: What is MIT? The answer is a college in Boston, where Russian professors teach Chinese students.

        So what? Who cares who the engineers are? I remember at one time in our country there were enough officers and engineers from Europe, but now we proudly raise our heads and say “all by ourselves!” .... The main thing is that money goes to the American budget from their salaries ... enough and strangers don't go ...
        1. Weight
          Weight 2 October 2018 08: 43
          -8
          So what? Who cares who the engineers are? ”“ Exactly ... exactly who cares who the parents are ?!
          * In due time * - who did they become in the country then? Okay, it’s not interesting with you ... Everything is lost, all Kazly, one you are the best .... Good luck ...
          1. parma
            parma 2 October 2018 11: 54
            +3
            Quote: Kettlebell
            So what? Who cares who the engineers are? ”“ Exactly ... exactly who cares who the parents are ?!
            * In due time * - who did they become in the country then? Okay, it’s not interesting with you ... Everything is lost, all Kazly, one you are the best .... Good luck ...

            Who then became? Nobles .... And very rich, by the way, with land and money .... The process is the same .... Remember, for example, Mr. Sikorsky (the article about him is fresh in VO), who he was in RI ( Well, of course, what were his prospects in the future) and what he became upon moving?
            Anyway, the question is not whether everything has disappeared and whether it has disappeared, but in the fact - why they have it, but we don’t and what to do to make it the other way around ....
            And if it’s not interesting, don’t talk, I don’t insist ....
            And yes, you certainly did not graduate from MIT, but according to the rules of the Russian language (and you, as a true URRYa-patriot, simply must know it perfectly), an appeal to one person like "you", "you", "your", "with you" and etc. is written with a capital letter;)
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 2 October 2018 13: 43
              +3
              Quote: parma
              addressing one person like "you", "you", "your", "with you", etc. is written with a capital letter

              Not true. There is no such rule in Russian, do not invent.
      2. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 2 October 2018 09: 00
        +9
        Quote: Kettlebell
        And the USA at what * launches * did * 26 !!! *?

        Are you curious or just scoffing? I’ll tell you a secret that does not exist, on Russian engines out of 26 there are only 6, 5 Atlases and 1 Antares, the rest are on their own. Consciousness did not destroy you?
        Quote: Kettlebell
        Do you know that engineers in America are 90% ... foreigners?

        Where do you find such nonsense in the newspaper Pravda or Tomorrow?
        1. Weight
          Weight 2 October 2018 09: 15
          -4
          I have a cousin there ... lives ... So calm down ... And I know about the good in the USA, but I also know about the bad))) And my brother works as an Instrument Engineer ...
          1. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 2 October 2018 10: 14
            +3
            Quote: Kettlebell
            I have a cousin there ... lives ... So calm down ...

            It is you who arrange sessions of imaginary exposure without giving any real arguments.
            1. Weight
              Weight 2 October 2018 10: 22
              -2
              Give you all its coordinates so that he brings * no real arguments *? Uncle, you are so funny. I will answer you the same, you are lying all that you write ...)
      3. Henderson
        Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 15
        +3
        Quote: Kettlebell
        And the USA at what * launches * did * 26 !!! *?

        most of this is the Falcon-9 from SpaceX.
        Quote: Kettlebell
        Do you know that engineers in America are 90% ... foreigners?

        Stop lying already. In the space industry, foreigners are prohibited from working legally.
        1. True
          True 2 October 2018 19: 08
          +2
          Quote: Henderson
          Stop lying already.

          It works. Holguin trolls, s.
        2. Weight
          Weight 3 October 2018 09: 04
          +2
          In the space industry, foreigners are prohibited from working legally.-do * Native * Americans work there? ABALDET .... Foreign migrant workers did not have access to a fully equipped product, but there was access to secret defense technologies, though for some time ... the main thing WAS ... and Worked until 2009
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 09: 16
            +3
            Quote: Kettlebell
            * Native * Americans work?

            There is a huge range of regulatory documents related to the non-proliferation of rocket technology. In terms of work, there are restrictions on citizenship, in part not.
            1. Weight
              Weight 3 October 2018 13: 33
              +1
              I agree with regulatory documents, etc. ..... but ...... did they work until 2009 anyway? lol
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 13: 45
                0
                Quote: Kettlebell
                but ...... still worked until 2009?

                What is it all about?
                1. Weight
                  Weight 3 October 2018 13: 53
                  +1
                  request I'm in shock ......
                  I would like to become smarter, but reading your posts, this is not possible. Good luck
  7. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 2 October 2018 07: 30
    +2
    US plans to abandon Russian RD-180 engines over the next five years

    ULA is not all the USA, it is only one private company, the fact that it has a contractual relationship with NASA does not mean that the latter is completely dependent on the supply of RD180.
    In the US, there is no one. Alas. And there is only "Atlas-5" on the Russian engine.

    The novel frankly lies, wishful thinking. In his imagination, NASA is completely dependent on Russia and we can dictate our conditions to them. In fact, NASA has plenty to choose from, Delta4 and Falcon9 operating pH capable of covering all the needs of NASA.
    1. shinobi
      shinobi 2 October 2018 07: 55
      -1
      I'll ask a "stupid" question, why don't they fly on them? The answer, by the way, is well known but not obvious and lies in a completely different plane.
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 2 October 2018 08: 04
        +11
        Quote: shinobi
        I'll ask a "stupid" question, why don't they fly on them?

        Indeed, the question is stupid, only a hermit from a dense forest can not see successful launches 15 Falcon9, 2 Delta4, 1 Delta2.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 23
        +1
        Quote: shinobi
        I'll ask a "stupid" question, why don't they fly on them?

        Who are they on?
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 16
      +4
      Quote: Puncher
      In fact, NASA has plenty to choose from, Delta4 and Falcon9 operating pH capable of covering all the needs of NASA.

      I will add that last year Falcon made more launches for government customers than Atlas, and this trend continues.
      As for the Atlas, DOD is not too worried that they will be left without engines. Otherwise, no one would have allowed Atlas to take commercial launches, much less put RD-181 on the useless Antares.
      1. Weight
        Weight 2 October 2018 08: 44
        0
        And on what fly to the ISS?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 48
          +3
          Falcons, Antares, Japanese N-2 and Unions.
          What’s the question?
          1. Weight
            Weight 2 October 2018 08: 51
            -2
            laughing understandably....
            Antares with Russian engines RD-181
            Falcon9 - how many launches were
            H2 - again foreign
            Where is yours, Zin?
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 25
              +1
              Quote: Kettlebell
              Falcon9 - how many launches were

              specifically to the ISS there were 15 launches. Only about 60.

              PS And for that matter, on Antares RD-181 is placed only on the first step of 3.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 12: 34
                -1
                Quote: Henderson
                the first step of 3.

                Antares with three, it seems, until he flew, only with two.
                1. Weight
                  Weight 2 October 2018 13: 32
                  +1
                  You guys yourself there, figure out who flew how much
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 13: 35
                    +1
                    Antares to the ISS is launched in a two-stage configuration. There is the possibility of a three-stage configuration with increased load or a more complex orbit.
              2. Ros 56
                Ros 56 5 October 2018 06: 32
                0
                Without the first step, the rest is not needed for hell, don’t you?
        2. The comment was deleted.
  8. Jerk
    Jerk 2 October 2018 07: 37
    -1
    Quote: rumpelshtilskin
    Addict ... Not an addict ... This is the tenth thing. And the first is that

    ... that he is a convicted swindler, convicted in the United States for large-scale fraud, none of his production projects paid off, that is, he is not a businessman, but again a swindler, and the same "Musk space program" was not needed together with a "super-heavy rocket". And the existence of the fraudster Mask - we - don't care, we already had such Mavrodi.
    Sakta Mascarion. On the ears are clusters of mascaron. Another name is the sect of witnesses of the launch of the teslamobile, which, according to sectarians, proves Russia's backwardness wassat
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 08: 23
      +1
      Quote: Jerk
      that he is a convicted fraudster convicted specifically in the USA for especially large-scale fraud

      Convicted, apparently, by the progressive public.
      And so there were no criminal courts, NJA. Civilians constantly, such orders are there. There are many lawyers, everyone wants to eat.
    2. Sergey Goncharov
      Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 21: 09
      0
      the same "Musk space program" was not needed together with the "super-heavy rocket"

      Wow! And the men (no, wrong - right now, "gender equality" - should be: "women and men" laughing ) - and did not know !! bully
      For reference: 4 launches of the Falcon Heavy have already been contracted. The first of them should take place this year.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 22: 29
        +2
        Quote: Sergey Goncharov
        For reference: 4 launches of Falcon Heavy have already been contracted. The first of them should take place this year.

        Three solid, it seems. STP, Arabsat-6A, AFSPC.
        And no, the neighbor again left the next year.
        1. Sergey Goncharov
          Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 22: 43
          +1
          And ViaSat 3 Americas ??
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 00: 38
            0
            Quote: Sergey Goncharov
            ViaSat 3 Americas

            TBD
  9. arkadiyssk
    arkadiyssk 2 October 2018 07: 43
    +10
    An article, silly bragging, clearly not intended for the audience of the site. The author found something to be happy about - they sawed in half the Soviet RD-170 and received the RD-180, and received the RD-181 in half. What have you created? Maybe they could make it into hydrogen plants? Okay, not on the march, like the Americans for the Shuttle or the Delta, but maybe at least for the second stage of the Angara? The fact that the Americans are buying the 180s is not "dependence" on the Russian Federation, but the need for damned competition from the capitalists. It was not life that made them, but Boeing pushed through purchases so as not to give the launch market to Musk. And about the Chinese friends who dream of us, too far-fetched. It was clear about the divorce from the United States 4 years ago, if they thought about changing the market, they would have worked with China for a long time to certify the engine and modernize their missiles for it. And if there were no such actions, then the Chinese do not really need him, which is demonstrated by them in space - they start everything they need with their engines and reliably, without failures and for the first place are fighting with the United States having 26 launches against 24 from the United States, and forgiving pathetic 9 from the Russian Federation.
    1. Weight
      Weight 2 October 2018 08: 47
      0
      What did you create your own? ”“ And whose?
    2. Sergey Goncharov
      Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 21: 16
      +1
      By the way, at tt. Chinese already have and fly HF LRE I stage - YF-77 ... wink
  10. Weight
    Weight 2 October 2018 08: 06
    -4
    Quote: Zaurbek
    USA is a technically developed country and it can make a rocket engine, a matter of money and time
    * Want * and * be able * like different words and meaning .... And so let them buy, have * the engines that are forever drunk * Russian and more ...
  11. shinobi
    shinobi 2 October 2018 08: 07
    0
    The very essence of the issue of the prospects for outer space is turned upside down. With what fright we should be interested in the problems of the USA. Will they make or screw up, they will not fly. They will pay us for the delivery? Great! No? We did it earlier, we will do it now. Will they cut commercial contracts? grandfather, launches are cheaper than we don’t have. And it’s not expected. And for discussions on the topic, get rid of the addiction to rd-180, you need to treat the promises of an addict with the experience of stopping injections.
    1. Sergey Goncharov
      Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 21: 19
      +2
      Squeeze commercial contracts? Don’t mix grandfather, startups are cheaper than we don’t have.

      1) Chinese launches are even cheaper;
      2) (more important) the choice of launch service provider is by no means determined not only by no means not always the starting price.
  12. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 2 October 2018 08: 08
    0
    But if you look even without excessive patriotism, it would be very difficult to do without Russia.
    So far, problematic, Roma, bye.
  13. Snail N9
    Snail N9 2 October 2018 08: 29
    +4
    And in space, so far the USA has only loud statements and bright prospects.

    An interesting statement. The author rushes with the unfortunate RD-180 like "that guy" with a stupa, he doesn't know where to put it and it's a pity to throw it away ".... and, as usual, an old song about" we are the coolest "because" we have " (or is it not "with us"?) there is an RD-180, which when the US abandons it, we will sell it to the Chinese, then to the Japanese, then .... to the Papuans in Africa, and so we will always be "cooler than the United States in space industry "Well, also, the author forgot to call Elona Musk" Macaroni Monster "again ...
    1. Weight
      Weight 2 October 2018 09: 30
      0
      so your American friends are also WORRY with the opinion of * torn to shreds * and the very * best nation * in the World. And you are writing in Russian Worn with love for everything American ....
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 2 October 2018 11: 12
        +2
        "Oh, well, that's it." Well, I'm already tired of explaining for the hundredth time "why" the flag "is not Russian", and I am not the only one .. And by the way, where does the "shreds"? The "cosmoss" and the article of the author, who is worn with the RD-180 as "it is clear who", is discussed. I do not understand why the author does not write about the "achievements" of Russian cosmonautics in recent years? Or RD-180 with an incomprehensible legal affiliation, this is all that she "achieved"? You can be foolish about the Americans as much as you want, but do not forget that it is crawling on Mars and what kind of car, for fun, Musk threw into the cosmoss ...
        1. Weight
          Weight 3 October 2018 09: 08
          -1
          and you write what the Americans have done lately?
          worn with rd-180 as "it is clear who- so it is now and there IS ... You still write behind the wheel that everyone is rushing .... Regarding the * flag * - I do not know and it is not interesting to me ... I see what I see ...
  14. Bypassed
    Bypassed 2 October 2018 08: 31
    +1
    Well then. that the stripes all type sucks, I realized. But the current - and Russia has a clear strategy for space exploration - or how will it turn out? When will we transfer from seven to novye?
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 2 October 2018 09: 31
      -4
      He walked by, well, and move on, as everyone is bothering you. What do you understand in missile business, do you even know how the center of gravity differs from the center of pressure on the rocket. That you are so drawn to speculate about what you do not understand a damn thing.
      1. Henderson
        Henderson 2 October 2018 12: 34
        +9
        It is always nice to know the opinion of a thinking person, Russia is rapidly miniaturizing in spite of everyone:
        1. Uryukc
          Uryukc 2 October 2018 13: 19
          -1
          An excellent note under the asterisk "according to Space X", I would like to get acquainted with the estimates of Roscosmos, too.
          Quote: Henderson
          It’s always nice to know the opinion of a thinking person

          Roofing felts business you, amaze with unprofitable "truths":
          Quote: Henderson
          The United States has $ 9 return on every dollar invested in space.

          Quote: Henderson
          and weather forecasts are made using American data
          (allegedly about the Russian Federation).
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 13: 41
            +8
            Quote: Uryukc
            An excellent note under the asterisk "according to Space X", I would like to get acquainted with the estimates of Roscosmos

            By 2018, a fact is already on the nose. Roscosmos - 2 conditionally commercial launches of light vehicles, February 1 and April 25, the Union and the last Rokot. There will be no more this year, only state ones.
            Falcon, 12 commercial launches of the Proton class (if you count with Zuma, Northropp was officially there for customers), another 6 are planned.
            1. Uryukc
              Uryukc 2 October 2018 13: 51
              0
              Thank you for the detailed answer.
          2. Henderson
            Henderson 2 October 2018 18: 37
            +1
            Quote: Uryukc
            An excellent note under the asterisk "according to Space X", I would like to get acquainted with the estimates of Roscosmos, too.

            just take the number of commercial launches of heavy missiles in the world and figure out what could be easier?
            Get 18 launches from SpaceX (12 already done), 4 from ULA, 0 at Roskosmos and 4 at the ESA.
            So SpaceX was still very gently calculated, including Soyuz and Rokot in statistics, and the Union is a light class carrier, and Rokot in general didn’t launch Roscosmos, but the Russian Ministry of Defense, and they do not compete with SpaceX.
            1. Henderson
              Henderson 2 October 2018 18: 48
              +1
              but no, he lied. The ULA commercial has only 2, 3 military and 1 scientific. But even the ULA alone did more than Roskosmos.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 19: 00
                +2
                Quote: Henderson
                lied. ULA commercial only 2

                What other commercial launches do ULA have in 2K18? Atlas, 2 NASA, one USAF, one spy, Delta, 2 NASA, one spy.
                1. Henderson
                  Henderson 2 October 2018 19: 44
                  -1
                  Here, of course, the question is what to consider commerce, but in general you are right ..
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 2 October 2018 19: 29
          -1
          Quote: Henderson
          Russia is rapidly diminishing in spite of all:

          The West surpasses Russia in population by ten times, it is clear that they will have multiple more launches. Why these comparisons?
          1. Henderson
            Henderson 2 October 2018 19: 51
            +6
            Quote: Setrac
            The West surpasses Russia in population by ten times, it is clear that they will have multiple more launches. Why these comparisons?

            Just a decade ago, Russia made as many launches as the whole world combined.
            5 years ago, Russia alone surpassed the United States.
            At the moment, Russia is hopelessly behind the two leaders in the person of the United States and China and is gradually beginning to concede to the European Union and Japan.
            That is, starting with unconditional leadership, Russia becomes an outsider.
            Can you explain what happened over the years?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 2 October 2018 20: 44
              -1
              Quote: Henderson
              5 years ago, Russia alone surpassed the United States.

              Let me remind you that ten years ago, Russia stopped its integration into the Western world, you can forget about Western orders.
              Quote: Henderson
              At the moment, Russia is hopelessly behind the two leaders in the person of the United States and China and is gradually beginning to concede to the European Union and Japan.

              Commercial launches are proportional to the size of the economy. Commercial launches have long been a routine, Russia is much smaller in quantity than in quantitative terms, this is inevitable because
              Quote: Setrac
              West surpasses Russia in population ten times
              1. Henderson
                Henderson 2 October 2018 21: 32
                +1
                Quote: Setrac
                Let me remind you that ten years ago, Russia stopped its integration into the Western world, you can forget about Western orders.

                nobody stopped anything. Orders were both foreign and remained.
                Quote: Setrac
                Commercial startups are proportional to the size of the economy

                Commercial launches bring direct profit to the country's economy, that is, directly increase its size. But not the other way around. How did it happen that customers went to other service providers, because sanctions do not apply to the space industry. Yes, and can not touch. After all, the Russian Federation makes missiles out of its entire components. Or not?
                Quote: Setrac
                West surpasses Russia in population ten times

                What is the West? I do not know such a country.
                I know that, for example, the United States surpasses Russia only 2 times. The economy is 15 times. And on launches just recently lagged.
                How so?
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 2 October 2018 22: 23
                  -1
                  Quote: Henderson
                  nobody stopped anything. Orders were both foreign and remained.

                  We will only carry what they themselves will not be able to take.
                  Quote: Henderson
                  What is the West? I do not know such a country.

                  This is such a direction, enlighten.
                  Quote: Henderson
                  I know that, for example, the United States surpasses Russia only 2 times. The economy is 15 times.

                  And the US economy is more than two and a half times.
                  And you count the satellites of the United States, just like once at the Third Reich.
                  Germany, Japan, South Korea, still glad countries - occupied by the Americans.
                  Quote: Henderson
                  Commercial launches bring direct profit to the country's economy, that is, directly increase its size.

                  Kindergarten webbing pants - this is your profit, rocket magnates are right next to the oil ones.
                  1. Henderson
                    Henderson 4 October 2018 12: 59
                    0
                    Quote: Setrac
                    We will only carry what they themselves will not be able to take.

                    that is nothing
                    Quote: Setrac
                    And the US economy is more than two and a half times.

                    in alternative reality it is.
                    Quote: Setrac
                    And you count the satellites of the United States, just like once at the Third Reich.
                    Germany, Japan, South Korea, still glad countries - occupied by the Americans.

                    explain why no one is so friendly with Russia?
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Kindergarten webbing pants

                    don't project your complexes on me
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 4 October 2018 18: 12
                      -1
                      Quote: Henderson
                      that is nothing

                      That's right - nothing.
                      Quote: Henderson
                      in alternative reality it is.

                      But in your virtual fairy tale, it’s different.
                      Quote: Henderson
                      explain why no one is so friendly with Russia?

                      And who is friends with the United States? I have listed the countries occupied by the Americans, friendship doesn’t smell like friendship there.
                      Quote: Henderson
                      don't project your complexes on me

                      You believe in good and honest enemies! Just like children.
                2. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 22: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Henderson
                  Orders were both foreign and remained.

                  Which ones?
                  Quote: Henderson
                  because the sanctions do not apply to the space industry. Yes, and can not touch.

                  Concern. There was a tightening of ITAR, the procedure for coordinating the import into Russia of both satellites and components was twisted. Although this is only one of the problems.
                  Quote: Henderson
                  After all, the Russian Federation makes missiles out of its entire components. Or not?

                  Of course not. Although Proton did not die of this. But the converted ICBMs had Ukrainian management systems. Zenit, of course, which they are now trying (or no longer trying) to do in Russia anew as Soyuz-5 / Sunkar.
                  1. Henderson
                    Henderson 4 October 2018 13: 04
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Which ones?

                    who went to SpaceX
                3. Cannonball
                  Cannonball 3 October 2018 00: 00
                  -8
                  Superiority in the economy is fake. The dollar is artificially inflated, the prices of American products are more than overestimated. The cost of American labor is also overpriced. In addition, most of the American economy is tied to the service sector, and not to production.
                  1. parma
                    parma 3 October 2018 06: 45
                    +6
                    Quote: Cannonball
                    Superiority in the economy is fake. The dollar is artificially inflated, the prices of American products are more than overestimated. The cost of American labor is also overpriced. In addition, most of the American economy is tied to the service sector, and not to production.

                    The person said, writing with an OS developed in the USA installed on hardware developed in the USA ..... The fact that Americans do not work with pens does not mean that they do not work ... And I will tell you a secret, but "brains" at all times were valued more than "hands" ....
                    Even if you do not take the consumer goods, but a purely military commissar (it is more difficult to do, whatever one may say) - who, for example, are producing 3-3 + generation NVGs now? Even I mean the Chinese (well, they have a "real" economy) NVGs 3-3 + generations have not heard ... Who mass-produced aircraft of the 5th generation (and already the 2nd model)? Destroyers (by the way, not the worst of the word at all) who launches like pies? By the way, now about the same story will begin with the UDC ... Who is the only one in the world that has the technology and capacity for the production of heavy aircraft carriers?
                    Well, just a question from the logical part - if everyone knows that the dollar is a piece of paper, then why is no one against it? If the American economy is fiction, why is everyone afraid of sanctions and so on?
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 3 October 2018 06: 54
                      -6
                      Quote: parma
                      The man said, writing with an OS developed in the USA

                      Russian programmers
                      Quote: parma
                      Iron developed in the USA .....

                      Russian scientists
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 3 October 2018 07: 09
                        +3
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Quote: parma
                        The man said, writing with an OS developed in the USA

                        Russian programmers
                        Quote: parma
                        Iron developed in the USA .....

                        Russian scientists

                        Can 3-5 last names be called?
                        Or, as always - I have a relative there sweeping the corridors - he told me. lol
                      2. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 7 October 2018 12: 18
                        -2
                        Sergey Brin - Google.
                        Paul Beran, nee Peysakh Baran, Grodno - a network of ARPANET, the harbinger of the Internet.
                        Victor Vysotsky - OS BESYS, OS Multics, harbingers of UNIX.
                        Oleg Vyshnepolsky - Developed TCP / IP for OS / 2 and for the IBM 4690 OS.
                        Vadim Gerasimov - Google.
                        Ilya Zhytomyr - Diaspora social network, an alternative to Facebook.
                        Boris Katz - Professor at the Laboratory for Informatics and Artificial Intelligence (CSAIL) at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge.
                        Jan Koum - co-founder and CEO of WhatsApp messenger.
                        Max Levchin - one of the creators of PayPal.
                        Alexander Lifshits, the same one from the "Radio" - worked as a programmer at the Medical Center in New York.
                        Alexander Moiseev - Works as a programmer at the Pittsburgh Bank PNC.
                        Alexey Pajitnov - game designer, creator of the Tetris game.
                        Stepan Pachikov - Co-founder of companies ParaGraph Intl., Parascript, Evernote, which have made a great contribution to the development of handwriting recognition and VRML technology.
                        Svyatoslav Pestov - Creator of the programming language Factor and the popular editor for programmers jEdit. He currently works at Apple as one of the developers of the Swift programming language.
                        Alexander Stepanov - Was a top manager of SGI, AT&T and Compaq. He is best known as the creator of the STL (Standard Template Library), which has become part of the C ++ Standard Library.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 7 October 2018 13: 31
                        +1
                        Most of the people you listed are Americans of Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish (there are a lot of them) origin. Beran especially smiled, who was born in Poland (suddenly!), And moved with his parents to the states at the age of 2 (Lucky kid !, Jews in Poland had a hard time). Bryn was born in Moscow, but came to the United States at the age of 6 from ... Austria! His parents speculated on a transplant, where it would be more appropriate to dump, to the States or to Israel. The boy was also lucky, with all due respect to Israel.
                        I know the hard times that my parents went through there, and I am very thankful that I was brought to the States.

                        I came here to the US at age 6 with my family from the Soviet Union which was at that time the greatest enemy the US had, maybe it still is. It was a dire period, the cold war, as some people remember it. It was under the threat of nuclear annihilation. And even then the US had the courage to take me and my family in as refugees.

                        Speaking of how good refugees differ from bad ones.
                      4. parma
                        parma 3 October 2018 08: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Quote: parma
                        The man said, writing with an OS developed in the USA

                        Russian programmers
                        Quote: parma
                        Iron developed in the USA .....

                        Russian scientists

                        Then it’s not Russian, but Russian .... Since moving to the United States, they have ceased to be Russian ... This time ....
                        In addition to Russian there are full of specialists of different nationalities, these are two ....
                        Well, the money for the OS and hardware you paid to an American company, that's three ....
                        And the last one is probably the most important thing, because with your money it’s American companies that I hire Russian (and other) specialists who will develop a new OS and hardware, and in 5-10 years (if not earlier) you will again give money to American companies .... And our companies and the budget will receive only margin from this transaction ....
                      5. Henderson
                        Henderson 4 October 2018 13: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Russian programmers

                        Why do Russian programmers do not want to work on the Russian OS?
                    2. Cannonball
                      Cannonball 3 October 2018 19: 58
                      -1
                      For those who are "in the tank" I give an example.

                      FGB module "Zarya", weighing 20,2 tons, built with American money in Russia. It has its own engines, solar panels, and many systems that allow the Zarya to be operated, even in manned or autonomous mode.
                      The Americans paid about 2 million dollars for this module and its double FGB-220.

                      Module LM Destiny, weighing 14,5 tons, built by the Americans themselves. It has almost nothing, it was launched with 5 racks out of 23, the rest were delivered by shuttles later. In fact, it’s an empty barrel brought by the shuttle and estimated by the same Americans at $ 1 billion.

                      So much for the American economy.
                  2. Setrac
                    Setrac 3 October 2018 06: 55
                    -4
                    Quote: Cannonball
                    Superiority in the economy is fake. The dollar is artificially inflated, the prices of American products are more than overestimated.

                    And you measure by production indicators and not by the dollar.
                    1. Henderson
                      Henderson 3 October 2018 08: 40
                      +3
                      Let's evaluate by performance indicators.
                      SpaceX: the number of employees - 7000. The number of beams for 2017 - 18. At the same time, part of the resources was attracted by the manned Dragon and BFR heavyweight.
                      Khrunichev: the number of employees is 40000.
                      The number of bundles for 2017 is 4. 25 years the Angara has been developing with state subsidies. After the first test launch, Rogozin called this missile obsolete and uncompetitive and demanded an urgent upgrade. The company has debts of approximately 100bn. rubles and is in pre-bankruptcy condition.
                      How so?
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 October 2018 18: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Henderson
                        Let's evaluate by performance indicators.

                        Dear, would you blurt out? Read what you are talking about first. And it was about the economies of countries, and not about astronautics.
                      2. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 3 October 2018 20: 13
                        -1
                        There are 40000 on Khrunichev. Moreover, Khrunichev does not only make rockets.
                        In the end, count how many missiles and Dragons were made by SpaceEx over the entire period of its existence and how much has been done at Khrunichev over the same years.
                    2. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 09: 28
                      +3
                      Quote: Setrac
                      And you measure by production indicators and not by the dollar.

                      In terms of volume, the US industrial sector is the second largest in the world, slightly inferior to China. Most of the Russian economy, even in PPP. If we take it at face value, as it’s right, the US industry is about an order of magnitude larger than Russian, 450 billion against 4 trillion.

                      Russia, by the way, is also a "post-industrial" country.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 October 2018 18: 21
                        -2
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        In terms of the volume of the US industrial sector

                        This, of course, is not true, in terms of industrial production and the United States is second after China, the third is India, and the fourth is Russia.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        US industry is about an order of magnitude larger than Russian, 450 billion against 4 trillion

                        You look at GDP, and there is not only industrial production.
                        Bloated financial bubbles - 60% of US GDP.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 18: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        In terms of the volume of the industrial sector in the USA, they are the second

                        Quote: Setrac
                        This is certainly not true.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        in terms of industrial production yes the USA is second after China

                        How unpredictable you are.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        You look at GDP,

                        I look at the structure of GDP. 20% of 20 trillion and 30% of 1,5 trillion. at face value. If 60% of US GDP is a financial bubble (for a moment we take this nonsense as a working hypothesis), then this means that US GDP is 8 trillion, and industry is 50% of it.
                    3. Cannonball
                      Cannonball 3 October 2018 20: 09
                      0
                      Example post above.
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 3 October 2018 20: 53
                        +2
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        Example post above.

                        Off topic your example.
                        We take the cost of Tu-204, 30 million, we take the catalog value of the similar A321, 120 million, we say that 75% of the cost of the airbus is "bubble" and "prices for French products are more than overstated", and 1900 orders for the airbus and Tu-204 is the result of the bending of the hucksters from the side of their bourgeois governments.

                        ??

                        Profit.
                      2. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 7 October 2018 12: 48
                        0
                        OK - an example from life.
                        The South Korean Naro launch vehicle, aka KSLV-1, is a jointly Russian-Korean development.
                        Specialists of our rocket and space industry accompany missile launch preparation - assembly control, testing, coordination, meetings, consultations, etc.
                        One of them, the middle manager at Khrunichev, liked the Koreans so much for his technical literacy, erudition and organizational skills that he was offered a five-year contract with the Korean Space Agency KARI, with a salary of about $ 3000 a month, free housing, and a car, a secretary - an interpreter, paid for by air travel back and forth to anywhere in the world twice a year and other pleasant little things. For Russian realities, the conditions are more than decent.
                        However, he was forced to refuse, because he learned that at the same time, the Koreans were negotiating with one French engineer from Arianespace, offering him similar conditions, only with a salary of 15000 euros. Because for less money a Frenchman would hardly go to Korea.
                        That is, a priori our specialist was evaluated five times cheaper, just because he is Russian.
                        There, beyond the hillock, from a young fingernail they hammered in that European, American, Japanese, Korean are always better than Russian, and therefore more expensive. This "advantage" in many cases is only a product of aggressive advertising, biased marketing and political propaganda.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 7 October 2018 13: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        the Koreans liked it so much for their technical literacy, erudition and organizational skills

                        Quote: Cannonball
                        secretary translator

                        Is it like with English?
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        for Russian realities, the conditions are more than decent.
                        However, he was forced to refuse, because he learned that at the same time, the Koreans were negotiating with a French engineer

                        <bad word> - he is the <bad word> (c). They will close the remains of Khrunichev, what will he do? Selling felt-tip pens on the train? Will he go to Omsk instead of Korea?
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        That is, a priori our specialist was evaluated five times cheaper, just because he is Russian.

                        Of course not. If he were Russian from Arianspace, they would have given the same amount. If there was a Russian from SpaceX, they would have given twice as much.
                        1. The salary of an employee is determined, under normal conditions, by the salary that he could receive elsewhere. As you rightly noted, your colleague has few better options.
                        2. Koreans, and not they alone, would like to completely steal SpaceX, in extreme cases - Arianspace or YULA. Naturally, people from there are valued more than from Khrunichev. Koreans want to launch rockets, not build LCDs.
                      4. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 7 October 2018 18: 25
                        0
                        1. As the colleagues who were on the expedition said, English and Koreans also had big problems.

                        2. "Khrunichev" will not be closed and will not be sent to Omsk. There will be enough work for him in Moscow, what has to do with his specialty. So you don't have to worry about that.

                        3. Then the glory of SpaceX was quoted near zero, and their specialists were not particularly appreciated. Arianespace was doing much better than the Americans, but in comparison with Khrunichev, the French did not win either.
                        For launches in 2008 11-6 in favor of Khrunichev, in 2009 13-7 in favor of Khrunichev,
                        in 2010, 13-6 in favor of Khrunichev. So the French specialists "in technology" were not more expensive than ours, especially considering the customer's need for Koreans.

                        4. The salary of a highly qualified specialist (piece goods) is determined by the conditions under which this specialist agrees to work. These conditions are determined not only by the number of zeros in the salary, but also by the degree of respect for the skill and qualifications of this specialist.
                        The Koreans mistakenly thought that the Russians could be defamed, which they tried to do several times during the implementation of this project. They were repeatedly caught "by the hand", repeatedly proved their, to put it mildly, strange behavior and decisions. They tried to “go into denial” like experienced criminals, but under the pressure of irrefutable facts they were forced to agree, apologize and do as they were told, and not as they thought. Two accidents are purely Korean fault.

                        4. Koreans need technology. They themselves want to build rockets. In the West, the transfer of rocket and space technology is very strict, there is not much to steal.
                        Our specialist, in this regard, is much more valuable, because his head is not blocked by sanctions lists and instructions. And our specialist knows and knows how to do much more, which is constantly proved by the experience of creating and operating RCT.

                        This only says that Koreans have been driven into their heads since their studies, that everything American or European is cool, and Russians are all drunkards with balalaikas who are willing to work for a samovar with vodka and borscht.
                        Pure propaganda and no more.
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 7 October 2018 20: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        He will have enough work in Moscow, moreover, by profession. So you can not worry about this.

                        Oil to the heart.
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        Then the glory of SpaceX was quoted near zero, and their experts were not particularly valued

                        To blame, did not specify the prescription of history. I apologize.
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        The South Korean Naro launch vehicle, aka KSLV-1, is a jointly Russian-Korean development.

                        By the way, since I’ve talked about her.
                        Here
                        http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=73
                        The weight of the load per 100 kg is indicated. How did you manage to achieve this on the URM from the Angara? With 2 tons of fully solid Vega, for example?
                        And Angara 1.1, by the way, looks weird against the same background.
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        Koreans mistakenly thought that it is possible to defame with Russians

                        Everyone has heard about the Korean approach to business. Perhaps your colleague came across a redneck, I will not argue.
                      6. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 8 October 2018 20: 49
                        -2
                        Just numbers:

                        KSLV-1 missile 2-stage, Vega - 4-stage.

                        KSLV-1. Starting weight - 140,6 tons.
                        The engine URM - RD-151 has a thrust of 1670 kN, an operating time of 300 seconds.
                        The engine of the Korean stage KSR-1 has a thrust of 86,2 kN, an operating time of 25 seconds.

                        Vega Starting weight - 137,0 tons
                        Engine of the 80st stage P3040 - thrust 107 kN, operating time XNUMX sec.
                        Engine of the II stage Zefiro 23- thrust 1200 kN, operating time 71,6 sec.
                        The engine of the III stage Zefiro 9 - thrust 214 kN, operating time 117 sec.
                        Engine IV stage AVUM - 2,45 kN thrust, operating time 315,2 seconds.

                        The "Angara-1.1" seems to have been abandoned.
                        "Angara-1.2" with a launch mass of 171 tons should put into orbit a launch vehicle with a mass of up to 3,5 tons.

                        About 100 kg of PN.

                        According to the Korean project, the launch vehicle should be able to output more than 100 kg of payload to a height of up to 300 km with an inclination of 38 degrees.
                      7. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 9 October 2018 00: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        KSLV-1 missile 2-stage, Vega - 4-stage.

                        For solid propellant rocket motors many steps are the norm.
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        operating time 300 sec ... operating time 25 sec.

                        Hm. In fact, single-stage-to-orbit. Really, some strange guys.
                        Quote: Cannonball
                        According to the Korean project, the launch vehicle should be able to output more than 100 kg of payload to a height of up to 300 km with an inclination of 38 degrees.

                        That is, to the simplest DOE, 38 degrees is just the breadth of their spaceport, it seems. An electron of 10 tons weighs twice as much.
                      8. Cannonball
                        Cannonball 13 October 2018 12: 43
                        -1
                        The task was - 100 kg in orbit.
                        The Koreans liked our URM, which they took as a basis for the first stage. Everything else is the problem of Koreans.
                        If you look at the performance characteristics of the light "Angara", where the URM-1 is also used as the first stage, then its carrying capacity is unlike KSLV-1.
          2. Shopping Mall
            Shopping Mall 4 October 2018 13: 35
            +2
            Quote: Setrac
            Quote: Henderson
            Russia is rapidly diminishing in spite of all:

            The West surpasses Russia in population by ten times, it is clear that they will have multiple more launches. Why these comparisons?


            And China in 10 times. So, they have to do more starts in 10?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 4 October 2018 18: 15
              -2
              Quote: AVM
              And China in 10 times. So, they have to do more starts in 10?

              The dependency is not linear.
      2. Ros 56
        Ros 56 5 October 2018 06: 37
        -1
        Exactly how exactly what he said, immediately put the minus balabol. Bet on what this affects, your denseness and incompetence can no longer be influenced by anything, like banderlog raguli.
  15. venik
    venik 2 October 2018 08: 43
    +1
    Article - frankly - ABOUT ANYTHING !!!! Or the author from the morning "took" something other stronger than coffee ... Or just "got up on the wrong foot" .....
  16. Weight
    Weight 2 October 2018 09: 22
    0
    Quote: Puncher
    Atlases

    In addition to the transport ship, Dragon NASA uses the Cygnus spacecraft to deliver cargo to the ISS. It is launched into orbit by the Atlas V launch vehicle of the United Launch Alliance consortium, created by Boeing and another aerospace giant, Lockheed Martin. It is on these missiles that the Russian RD-180 liquid engines produced by the Khimki NPO Energomash im. Academician V.P. Glushko. " In 2014, the RD-180 came under Washington sanctions, but it soon became clear that there was no replacement on the world market, and the US authorities again allowed the purchase of Russian engines.

    As an alternative to Atlas V to accelerate the transporter, Cygnus Orbital Science is now upgrading its Antares rocket. Instead of engines AJ-26, which were made on the basis of the Russian NK-33 Samara OJSC "Kuznetsov", at their first steps, the RD-181 engines of the same NPO Energomash are installed. Recently, Orbital Sciences decided to implement an option to purchase 8 of these engines under a contract concluded in 2014. The first launch of the upgraded Antares carrier rocket, equipped with RD-181, will take place in July of this year.
  17. Weight
    Weight 2 October 2018 09: 25
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    and electronics, and, most importantly, the quality control system at acceptance, is American.
    You can deliver RD-170 and RD-1

    Do you often drink in the morning? Still write, Lift me up, mood
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 10: 17
      +4
      Quote: Kettlebell
      Raise me up

      You to the urologist, apparently.
      Quote: Kettlebell
      Cygnus It is launched into orbit by the Atlas V booster rocket.

      Atlas V was used there twice, when in Samara the Samara engine from the Soviet lunar rocket could not.
      By the way, it took the Americans exactly two years to transfer the Antares from one engine to another (from NK to taxiway). This is the word about "no engine - no rocket".
      1. Weight
        Weight 2 October 2018 10: 24
        0
        understandably...
        - What is this currant?
        - Black.
        “Why is she red?”
        - Because green.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 2 October 2018 11: 29
          +1
          The main thing is to have a "correct view of things" and then, there will always be reason for optimism:
          Fall. Outback. Bad vain rain. Mud on the knee. A man overgrown in a torn quilted jacket wades through the mud.
          In one boot. And smiles blissfully. A neighbor is meeting him:
          - Petrovich, look at yourself! Dirty, unshaven, padded jacket, he lost his boot somewhere ...
          - Yes, I did not lose - I found it! wink
        2. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 7 October 2018 18: 35
          -1
          Quote: Kettlebell
          currant

          Not this way:

          Quote: About currants
          - Is that red?
          - No, it's black.
          “Why is she white?”
          - But because it’s green.
  18. Ros 56
    Ros 56 2 October 2018 09: 26
    +1
    Roman is right, now we have to really drive stripes into three necks from all power structures with a filthy broom. Then, probably, we will begin to seriously develop in the economic sense. But the Duma must be dispersed to hell, not to mention local cranks in the regions and municipalities, and the Supreme Council should be restored as it was in the USSR. After all, there was no sense in it anyway, they arranged a sump for artists and athletes. What do they understand in politics and economics? They vote, with rare exceptions, such as N. Poklonskaya (my respect) as they will be told.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 5 October 2018 06: 49
      +1
      Judging by the minuses on the topic of striped devotees of our country, we still have a field untouched by uprooting this infection from our political and economic elite, or more simply from the power structures. Apparently almost all the liberal scum showed itself in full growth, it is time to take up weeding weeds in our Russian garden.
  19. Larum
    Larum 2 October 2018 09: 49
    +5
    Hehehe of course, but the Americans will post photos of space, constellations, nebulae .... and ours - only the Crimean bridge ....
    And besides heavy rockets with an old 180m, there is much more that, like ....
    1. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 2 October 2018 10: 17
      +4
      Quote: Larum
      and ours - only the Crimean bridge ....

      Ours also lay out, not their own, but lay out. Recently, for example, they posted photos from the surface of the asteroid Ryugu, thanks to the Japanese.
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 3 October 2018 09: 16
      -2
      Quote: Larum
      Americans upload space photos

      Posting photos is not tossing bags build rockets.
  20. Weight
    Weight 2 October 2018 10: 20
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    You to the urologist, apparently.

    How about your head? Who about what and you are all about the SAME ...
  21. yehat
    yehat 2 October 2018 11: 10
    -4
    something I do not understand. The United States at one time on "5" solved the difficult issues of creating ballistic and anti-ship missiles for the fleet, which requires a certain technological level, but the same United States for some reason is powerless with other types of missiles, despite the fact that, unlike the USSR, they are never forced were saving on test stands and actively stealing developments from the same USSR. I'm not saying that Brown worked for them, not the last guru in this area, like a bunch of other specialists.

    Something doesn’t converge. The picture is as controversial as the question of whether live astronauts on the moon. I believe that the Americans could deliver fresh corpses to the moon, especially if we remember how many astronauts they have already died. It seems about 3 dozen, not counting a series of accidents with those who kind of flew to the moon and provided this "flight".
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 11: 23
      +7
      Quote: yehat
      The fact that the Americans could deliver fresh corpses to the moon, I believe,

      Quote: yehat
      if you remember how many astronauts they have already died

      The dead dead astronauts were changed into Dutchs and put into a Malaysian Boeing, most likely.
  22. AleBors
    AleBors 2 October 2018 11: 41
    -1
    All clear. To be honest, it is high time to show the middle finger to overseas "partners" in terms of titanium RD-180 and other utilities. And then somehow it does not come out correctly. And get them off the ISS. Everything is fair, you sanction us, we give you a hammer and sickle. Reap and forge.
    The bad thing is that power, which is somehow ours, is essentially not such.
    1. parma
      parma 2 October 2018 11: 57
      0
      And then what will happen to the manufacturer of these same taxiways? .... The volume of launches in the USA on our engines is comparable to ours ....
      1. AleBors
        AleBors 2 October 2018 16: 44
        -1
        What about China? What about India? But you never know ... You can’t sell only to one buyer. Read F. Kotler. Stupid uncle ...
        1. Sergey Goncharov
          Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 22: 47
          0
          For India - I will not say. But if the PRC buys from Russia at all sustainer rocket engines for its launch vehicles, then only a pilot batch with the obligatory condition of transferring a "free license". hi
  23. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 2 October 2018 11: 49
    +6
    The RD-180 was delayed by the Americans, thanks to pragmatism - the budget was calculated for this engine and it was clearly cheaper than developing and recouping a new development from scratch.

    However, taking into account the factor of national priority, the plans were revised and funds were allocated for the development of its own - "Stars and Stripes".
    In general, there is no doubt that the project will be implemented or several projects, depending on how many of them are being financed.

    Are there doubts about the technical competence of US engineers?

    The first stage engine Saturn-5 F-1 was the first in which they were able to solve the issue of uncontrolled pulsations for large-volume combustion chambers - dividing it into sections.


    This decision in the USSR came precisely from F-1.

    In the USSR, they went the other way - multi-chamber powerful rocket engines.
    Both directions have both pros and cons.
    Single chamber is simpler - more reliable, cheaper, but larger in size.
  24. Victoria-V
    Victoria-V 2 October 2018 12: 18
    +3
    The word immediately revoked the word engine in relation to the RD-180 and BE-4. No specialist will call the Propulsion System (DU) simply an engine. I looked through a dozen of his articles. It turns out he is a specialist in a wide profile. He knows everything and writes about everything. Ordinary propagandist. But the bottom line, it is simple. The estimated availability date for the remote control BE-4 and AR1 is 2019-2020. Both installations can be used for Uulcan. It remains to choose between kerosene and methane ...
    1. Corn
      Corn 2 October 2018 14: 05
      +3
      Russia has lost commercial space, and they continue to sculpt some ridiculous "malicious comments."
      There is a video on the Internet showing how a man danced an "apple" in the ashes of his own house, the author of this article reminds him of something.
      Quote: Victoria-In
      It remains to choose between kerosene and methane

      They have already chosen BE-4, and for AR they are looking for a new buyer.
      The rocket science of the foreseeable future will suffer from methane, and here Musk makes it a new superheavy rocket.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 2 October 2018 14: 49
        -3
        Quote: Corn
        Mask on it makes new super heavy rocket

        Well, Musk has already been taxed with Tesla ... it remains to be seen when it is also taxed with "super-heavy missiles."

        IMHO, yes yes
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 2 October 2018 16: 01
          +5
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Well, with Tesla, Musk was already taxed

          All the cars that Tesla sells are now leaders in their niches in the United States, if not piece by piece, then at a total cost. For 14 years, a company has been created that is comparable in terms of sales and engineering potential, for example, with Porsche.
        2. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 2 October 2018 18: 30
          +7
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Well, with Tesla, Musk has already been taxed ..

          Third Quarter Release Statistics
          Q3 2017 - 26173 pcs.
          Q3 2018 - 83500 units, + 220% (of which Model 3 - 55840 units, Model S and X - 27660),

          With Tesla, everything is in order, the dynamics are positive, the cars are dismantled, they do not stagnate in the salons.
        3. Shopping Mall
          Shopping Mall 4 October 2018 13: 49
          +1
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Quote: Corn
          Mask on it makes new super heavy rocket

          Well, Musk has already been taxed with Tesla ... it remains to be seen when it is also taxed with "super-heavy missiles."
          IMHO, yes yes

          He screwed up with Tesla or not is another question. PMSM is what he did for the development of electric cars in itself is worth a lot.

          As for space, it is a great achievement to be a pioneer in the commercial sector, and even on such a scale. Can his business burn out? Can he not reach his goals (Mars). Easily. Market conditions are changing, investors' mood is changing. But the achievements achieved - vertical landing of 1-x rocket stages, diagnostic methods for reuse and much more will in any case affect the development of astronautics.
    2. Sergey Goncharov
      Sergey Goncharov 2 October 2018 22: 35
      0
      Victoria, and yet DU - consists of several (or one) engines. And the equipment providing them / his work. hi
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Weight
    Weight 2 October 2018 13: 38
    -6
    Quote: parma
    addressing one person like "you", "you", "your", "with you", etc. is written with a capital letter

    Yes, where am I for a worker, with 3 classes of a parish school, not trained for professors, etc., etc.
    Psi ... I appeal to you as I deign
  27. kig
    kig 3 October 2018 02: 50
    +2
    Into a promising space without Russia is a heading, in the current situation with Russian space, just the topic.
  28. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 3 October 2018 11: 32
    -3
    What did Musk do? We have some praying for him. He was already blown away. And to bring the engine to the end you need to have luggage in your head, but not the one that Mask has. And we also do not need to turn up our nose, but scrupulously move science forward because methane is a temporary, intermediate step in the development of rocket science. And we need to cooperate in something with China, but as much as China itself is capable and agrees. Because it is not entirely clear as a partner, given the Chinese articles that the desire of China to overtake Russia.
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 4 October 2018 14: 00
      0
      Quote: Anchonsha
      Methane is a temporary, intermediate step in the development of rocket production.


      Here it is, detonation engines:
      https://topwar.ru/135362-detonacionnye-dvigateli-uspehi-i-perspektivy.html

      Quote: Anchonsha
      And we need to cooperate in something with China, but as far as China is capable and agrees. Because it is not entirely clear as a partner, considering the Chinese articles that the desire of the PRC to overtake Russia.


      Yeah. Especially considering the Chinese approach to intellectual property.

      We are friends with China only until:
      Option 1 - China will not surpass the United States in the economy and the Armed Forces.
      The 2 option - China is so closely integrated into the Western economy (it will accept the rules of the game) that it will become something like South Korea or Japan.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Setrac
    Setrac 3 October 2018 20: 39
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    it means that the US GDP is 8 trillion

    "And in crocodiles I am much longer!"
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. Sckepsis
    Sckepsis 4 October 2018 19: 41
    +1
    Boring is the very word that remains of such articles.
  34. Dimas84
    Dimas84 30 December 2018 00: 49
    0
    Bender would say - "sad, girls"