Goodbye Windows, Hello Linux? Defense Ministry buys Elbrus

The Russian defense ministry plans to purchase Russian Elbrus computers for a total of 400 million rubles, follows from the materials on the public procurement website.

According to the order placed, the Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to receive laptops, workstations, graphics and multimedia stations, plotters, software and peripheral equipment, including special tests and special studies based on Elbrus processors, by September 30. In addition, a closed auction for the supply of thousands of 2019 sets of "Elbrus-1RS" in the interests of the Ministry of Defense will be held on October 801 of this year.

The Elbrus 801-RS workstation was developed on the basis of the Elbrus-8С microprocessor and is intended for the equipment of automated workstations (operators) of operators, microservers and information terminals, applications in industrial automation and in systems with increased requirements to information security.

Earlier it was reported that the Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to transfer all the office computers of the military department from the Microsoft operating system to the domestic Astra Linux, compatible with the Russian Elbrus processors. The system has already been used by the Armed Forces of Russia for several years, in particular, the information system of the National Center for Defense Management of the Russian Federation is based on it. In addition, today it is used in existing models of weapons and military equipment and in a number of promising developments.

Comments

[bk316]

What ...
What about

When we have our own secure IT-sphere ...
We do not have and will not have our own hardware.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

National security issues require the development of their hardware and software.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

National security issues require the development of their hardware and software.

Security issues require. But I wonder how much it will cost? After all, a simple video camera, which costs 1500-2000 in any store, is bought for 15000-20000 for the Moscow Region. The quadrator that goes to this set of cameras for 2,5 for the MO is taken for 25.nu and so on and so on. The Serdyukovs and Vasilievs remained as they were ...

[NordUral]

National security issues require the development of their hardware and software and power itself. Like this! And it will not work out differently.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Fitter65

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

National security issues require the development of their hardware and software.

Security issues require. But I wonder how much it will cost? After all, a simple video camera, which costs 1500-2000 in any store, is bought for 15000-20000 for the Moscow Region. The quadrator that goes to this set of cameras for 2,5 for the MO is taken for 25.nu and so on and so on. The Serdyukovs and Vasilievs remained as they were ...

If you know such facts, then you need to tell where they should be.
Verbiage about supplying the army with iron lying in stores is from the evil one. Armies need not only more electronically protected devices. but also withstanding operating conditions close to the operating conditions of the Kalashnikov assault rifle. Do not consider yourself smarter than those who are engaged in these matters professionally.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Fitter65

Security issues require. But I wonder how much it will cost?

I will add that the Linux declared in the title is not really reliable. This is especially true of the military sphere.

[Dimmedroll]

I completely agree, a glitch on a glitch

[Dimmedroll]

I beg you a normal camera costs just 15 tr. Anything below 4 tr cannot be called normal.

[tuts]

in mo dislike camera goes
All mikruha is conditionally divided into three classes: 1 commercial (the cheapest and most unreliable for working in comfortable conditions) 2 military (reliable and expensive for working on the battlefield) and 3 scientific (ultra-expensive and ultra reliable - for working in extreme conditions)

[Beby]

Quote: bk316

What about

When we have our own secure IT-sphere ...
We do not have and will not have our own hardware.

The Elbrus-8C microprocessor is manufactured at TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Limited). So, in a certain sense, we really do not have our own “hardware” and in the near future there will be no such thing.
On the other hand, a huge number of different companies from almost all developed countries of the world produce "their" chips on TSMC, .. and this doesn’t bother anyone.

[Genry]

Quote: Beby

Elbrus-8C is manufactured at TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Limited). So, in a certain sense, we really do not have our own “hardware” and in the near future there will be no such thing.

Elbrus is your own, because it is completely developed in Russia. And to bake crystals from recycled sand, according to ready-made templates, but in someone else's production, does not negate the originality and safety of "iron".

[Beby]

Quote: Genry

Elbrus is your own, because it is completely developed in Russia. And to bake crystals from recycled sand, according to ready-made templates, but in someone else's production, does not negate the originality and safety of "iron".

I have significant suspicions that in this "foreign production" the templates are also "alien". Anyway, I am tormented by vague guesses that this ("Elbrus-8C") "own" processor is a TSMC ASIC, glued from TSMC's IP-Core (ready-made nodes: DDR controller, Multi Gigabit Transmitters ( transceivers ala PCI-E), PLL (PLL), etc.). But even if these guesses of mine are correct, "Elbrus-8S" is still a significant achievement, because designing large ASICs is a very, very difficult process (non-believers can look at the number of different problems in the crystals of AMD and nVidia video cards, which are also ASICs).

Regarding "security": unfortunately, "Elbrus-8C" (manufactured at TSMC) is not "trusted". As a domestic development, it is safer than Intel / AMD / pr. , .. however, for a number of tasks its level of “security” is not enough.

[kakvastam]

A much bigger problem is the potential shutdown of supplies from a not quite friendly state. In this situation, even a completely different scheme will not help, without involving foreign components.
But the step is still in the right direction.

[Genry]

Quote: Beby

and in general, I am tormented by vague guesses that this ("Elbrus-8C") "own" processor is a TSMC ASIC glued from TSMC's IP-Core (ready-made nodes: DDR controller, Multi Gigabit Transmitters (transceivers ala PCI-E), PLL (PLL), etc.).

Well, you made up. At the fine logic level (flip-flops, shift registers, logic, adders ...), a manufacturer-specific topological base is used. But at a higher level, large logical blocks are not tied to the manufacturer and can be either purely of their own design or "based on" ....

Quote: Beby

Regarding "security": unfortunately, "Elbrus-8C" (manufactured at TSMC) is not "trusted". As a domestic development, it is safer than Intel / AMD / pr. , .. however, for a number of tasks its level of “security” is not enough.

Then deal with your contradiction. The main thing is that in Elbrus there are no bookmarks and cursed errors like Meltdown and Spectra, which are fundamentally impossible due to the lack of speculative execution.

[Beby]

Quote: Genry

Quote: Beby

and in general, I am tormented by vague guesses that this ("Elbrus-8C") "own" processor is a TSMC ASIC glued from TSMC's IP-Core (ready-made nodes: DDR controller, Multi Gigabit Transmitters (transceivers ala PCI-E), PLL (PLL), etc.).

Well, you made up. At the fine logic level (flip-flops, shift registers, logic, adders ...), a manufacturer-specific topological base is used. But at a higher level, large logical blocks are not tied to the manufacturer and can be either purely of their own design or "based on" ....

Those. You claim that the circuitry of the tunable N-phase PLL (used in modern processors), generating frequencies in the range from 3 to 5 GHz, is not directly connected with the features of those. specific plant processes?
I draw your attention to the fact that only high-frequency ones were listed as "borrowed" macro nodes.

Quote: Genry

Quote: Beby

Regarding "security": unfortunately, "Elbrus-8C" (manufactured at TSMC) is not "trusted". As a domestic development, it is safer than Intel / AMD / pr. , .. however, for a number of tasks its level of “security” is not enough.

Then deal with your contradiction.

There is no contradiction here, I just stated a fact: "Elbrus-8C", produced at TSMC, is not a "trusted" processor. Therefore, in a number of products it smoking use.

Quote: Genry

The main thing is that in Elbrus there are no bookmarks and cursed errors like Meltdown and Spectra, which are fundamentally impossible due to the lack of speculative execution.

Have you read Errata (or similar closed technical documentation) on Elbrus-8C that you are so sure that there are no such or similar errors in Elbrus-8C?

[Archon]

Well, tomorrow, the Americans will economically force Taiwan to abandon contracts for the production of processors for Russia. and then what? where is security, where is the point? Well, the union state of Belarus would print processors for Russia, then fine. or China would print processors for Russia - this is also normal, because it is independent.
in general, long ago, instead of buying another football club, we could buy a completely production line of processors and scientists, workers, engineers in addition.

[sogdy]

Quote: Archon

Well, tomorrow, the Americans will economically force Taiwan to abandon contracts for the production of processors for Russia. and then what? where is security, where is the point?

1) This is China.
2) _All_ substrates and most of the materials are exclusively Russian.

[Igor Polovodov]

Vague guesses torment us ... since the Americans do not impose any sanctions on Taiwan for Elbrus, it’s scary to even think about bookmarks and other hidden processes ...

[Victorio]

Quote: Beby

Quote: bk316

What about

When we have our own secure IT-sphere ...
We do not have and will not have our own hardware.

The Elbrus-8C microprocessor is manufactured at TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Limited). So, in a certain sense, we really do not have our own “hardware” and in the near future there will be no such thing.
On the other hand, a huge number of different companies from almost all developed countries of the world produce "their" chips on TSMC, .. and this doesn’t bother anyone.

===
there would be a desire and money, it is easy to put the same factory in the territory of the Russian Federation, orders will be provided for a long time. Linux applications will go well under Linux, since there are no problems with programmers

[Lex.]

there would be a desire and money, it is easy to put the same factory in the territory of the Russian Federation, orders will be provided for a long time. Linux applications will go well under Linux, since there are no problems with programmers, your Mikron bought the equipment 10 years ago from AMD so yours didn’t succeed

[Victorio]

Quote: Lex.

there would be a desire and money, it is easy to put the same factory in the territory of the Russian Federation, orders will be provided for a long time. Linux applications will go well under Linux, since there are no problems with programmers, your Mikron bought the equipment 10 years ago from AMD so yours didn’t succeed

===
11 years ago, the purchased technology was relevant, what prevents to buy more modern? about the failure (90 and 180nm on the Micron), can you clarify what? if you mean the problems there with corruption, and cost, yes, there is one.

[Demon_is_ada]

Well, purely in secret ... the factory was bought and not one, there the young people have fun, well, in the sense they conduct experiments, the good is the money that AMD regularly transfers Schaub cannot compete ... well, but sho, the business is like that, sometimes it’s easier to pay a bit than to lose everything ... It’s the same with many joint ventures, it seems, but they don’t seem to do anything ... well, they created for satisfying the political situation, such as import substitution, but they really don’t want the enterprises to really work and are ready to pay ... But why should they pay for gas and oil? (green candy wrappers not to offer, and generally cut paper and digital signs in a computer) In the sense of goods, if we ourselves will have everything ??? And they will never have hydrocarbons

[Beby]

Quote: Victorio

there would be a desire and money, it is easy to put the same factory in the territory of the Russian Federation, orders will be provided for a long time

And what's the point of this factory?
Then it will take a huge heap of time to adapt macro nodes: DDR2 / 3/4 memory controllers, N-phase PLL, Multi Gigabit Transmitter and much more to the resulting transistor structures (and sometimes develop from scratch).

[Lex.]

Well, for example, they produce it with us, before your processors produced

[skifd]

As usual, "Baba Yaga against" ....)))))))) Well, well.

[NordUral]

Their - for now, I repeat that for now, does not bother. So far they are relatively one West team.
But here we are - this is a completely different case. And hardware and software should be exclusively their own, in addition,
what works against the west on their field.

[Serge Gorely]

Main cost track. I remember they put us in the second part of the PENTs, the cost in the form -76000 p., In the shops this pleasure then cost about 18000 p., Such a non-acidic "margin".

[Genry]

Quote: Serge Gorely

in stores this pleasure then cost about

In the store they give you with a bare Windows ... And the military, besides it, makes specialized software development, with its security certificates for hardware and software.

[Corn]

Well, for sure, security certificates, unique technologies ...

[purple]

Quote: Corn

Well, for sure, security certificates, unique technologies ...

dismantled more than once, nothing in common ... from the word at all

[Razvedka_Boem]

In the store you are given with naked Windows.

I remember the story when a client buying a laptop, took out a disk to Linux and said - Either you delete Windu or I will do it myself now, but I will not overpay 200 bucks for what I need ..
You can still find in Neta .. Although the story is not advertised ..

[Wedmak]

On the shelves dofiga laptops in linukha. And even with DOS!

[sogdy]

Quote: Wedmak

On the shelves dofiga laptops in linukha. And even with DOS!

I doubt it. I saw only 2 firms.

[Alex_Rarog]

Window Mazda linuh foreve)

[Victor_B]

Long overdue!
But many people will be unhappy.
Users from the plow.
Especially "bulgachters" and other office plankton.

[Setrac]

Quote: Victor_B

Long overdue!
But many people will be unhappy.

Right! Will they trample the tanks?

[Igoresha]

the video card drivers flew to Linux, beat its forehead against the wall for three days, prescribed code with a sheet and nifiga. Since then has sworn. I feel sorry for the Russian military.

[old friend]

Do not la la. When it was? State institutions in many European countries work on Linux. This is an indicator. In China, its own system is NeoKylin, also a linux.
In fact, the news is good, just wonderful. Now the country's security, in many ways, is security in information technology. And info technology is not only content, but also hardware and software.

[Igoresha]

as protection against viruses - yes. may be. + as if free, also good. But in general terms, I do not agree, I have read forums on scanty problems on Windows which are difficult to solve on Linux.

[Genry]

Quote: Igoresha

But in general terms, I do not agree, I have read forums on scanty problems on Windows which are difficult to solve on Linux.

If you want to use programs whose analogues are not available in Linux, then yes. And games for Windows are also worse supported. But for mass office and military use, there are fewer problems than Windows.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Igoresha

read the forums

And about the problems that Linux does not exist at all, but on Windows their solution is associated with colossal hemorrhoids, if at all possible, you have not heard?

[Peter Smith]

work on Linux yourself, change your mind.
otherwise, no one would have used paid Windows, since there is a free Linux.
but this Linux to bring to the comfort of Windows, probably worth tens of billions of dollars. therefore it is a toy for advanced programmers, no more

[Genry]

Quote: Peter Smith

otherwise, no one would have used paid Windows, since there is a free Linux.

"linАks "?
You are clearly not "our man" .... Typical "Canadian" ???
And Windows just forcibly shoves into computers while still in the store.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Peter Smith

work on Linux yourself, change your mind.

I have been working for more than twenty years, even now I am answering you from under Linux.
In this case, you are just raving.

[region58]

Quote: kakvastam

I’ve been working for more than twenty years ... ... rave.

Probably still not quite. Very many users and the transition from "XP" to "7" in a stupor put. Inertia of thinking ... By the way, they considered themselves quite "advanced users" ...

[platon4387]

Wrong assumption, I myself have never been a programmer, but about five years on Linux the flight is normal, I started with Rebecca, then Rose, now Sylvia, User 56 years soon!

[Genry]

Quote: Igoresha

the video card drivers flew to Linux, beat its forehead against the wall for three days, prescribed code with a sheet and nifiga.

It’s immediately clear that you have Nvidia ... They specifically hack in Linux ....

[sogdy]

Quote: Genry

It’s immediately clear that you have Nvidia ... They specifically hack in Linux ....

Europeans. The S3 and NVidea from S3 are working as hell.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Genry

It’s immediately clear that you have Nvidia ...

Come on, we are talking about a rare "right hands" driver, no sheets can fix it.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Igoresha

+1
flew on Linux video card drivers

Maybe you mean Fedot, who, in fact, is not the same? Ie .... if there is a "hardware" problem, then where does Linux? Several years ago I tried to switch to Linux as a second (backup) OS ... unfortunately, it failed! Lack of time and the dominance of Windows prevented ... and only! By the way, even now UNIX is the main (or one of the main ...) OS of servers in large networks ....

[Igoresha]

the fact is that on Windows, reinstalling the drivers is easy and simple, but in Linux this turned out to be an insoluble problem and the forums did not help. So what the hell Linux to hell.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Igoresha

So what the hell Linux to hell

By the way, I recalled a case that happened several years ago. I had to install Linux drivers on computers in the same "state structure" ... Oh, and I wondered ... then! Until I got into the programming principle! Then it went on! Those. it may not work out implicitly ... it is always useful to learn the "math part" (!) ... and, preferably, in advance! and don't be too lazy to have a little patience to stock up on this ... (though I didn't have time for this: the authorities ordered ... I had to answer "yes!")

[purple]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

By the way, and now UNIX is the main (or one of the main ...) OS of servers of large networks ....

It has always been so. Windows can not overpower a normal server, for large volumes it is not intended at all from the word at all

[kakvastam]

Quote: Igoresha

I prescribed code with a sheet and nifiga.

Old rule: if you don’t know how, don’t take it.
I have been working with Linux for more than twenty years, and I have no complaints about stability, unlike Microsoft crafts.

[purple]

Quote: Igoresha

the graphics card drivers have flown to Linux,

there nothing can "fly off" so simply ... do not say nonsense

[Alex_Rarog]

And tried to straighten your hands?)))

[Zubr]

Well, that's nice, but they’ll close the information space of mines. defense finally. Stop sitting under Melkosoft.

[Henderson]

So in the end they run the same Windows under the emulator. The same fingers, only in profile, but slower and more expensive. No one wants to abandon the Microsoft office or the same 1C accounting.

[Zubr]

For this, there is OpenOffice and 1С for Linux no worse and full compatibility with Windu products.

[Henderson]

Quote: Zubr

There is OpenOffice for this.

try to get an accountant or a warrior to work under the Open Office, for example open some kind of tax document and print it. I'm afraid to learn a lot from the Russian mat.

Quote: Zubr

1C for Linux is no worse and full compatibility with Windu products.

Yeah, especially in conjunction with MsSql.

[Deckofficer]

We have been using the free Open / Libre office analogue for ten years, and even better than the original.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Deckofficer

We have been using the free Open / Libre office analogue for ten years, and even better than the original.

With all the love for Linux, I have to admit that recently both OpenOffice and LibreOffice have become much more capricious. Especially * Office Writer, formatting and setting up a table of contents drank so much blood to me! And Impress is generally a dubious product ...

[purple]

Quote: Deckofficer

We have been using the free Open / Libre office analogue for ten years, and even better than the original.

well that's not true

[Warrior Spirit]

Quote: purple

Quote: Deckofficer

We have been using the free Open / Libre office analogue for ten years, and even better than the original.

well that's not true

- rather even a lie. Compatibility with MSOffice is not complete. And in some cases there is complete incompatibility.))) As a result, it is impossible to use if you open third-party documents.

[Forestol]

this is called the “hardware-software complex”. If it were not for the Linux emulator, but its own, hardware-bound software, as in the big Elbrus, there would be no price.

[Genry]

Quote: Forestol

If it weren’t for the Linux emulator, but for its hardware-based software

What kind of "Linux emulator". For Elbrus, they have already made their own, code-related, Linux distributions. But Windows, of course, can only be in emulation mode.

[sogdy]

Quote: Genry

But Windows, of course, can only be in emulation mode.

I need vin only for Balabolka. So far, CoolRider for Linux has not been done (it already stands under Android). As the Americans did only for hardware readers. Languages ​​for Linux already exist. The same RHVoice.
There is a problem with tass.ru under old Linux browsers.

[MrFox]

and in the platform-specific linux / arch branch of the Linux kernel is Elbrus now also? How will we assemble the core?

[sogdy]

Quote: Forestol

If it weren’t for the Linux emulator, but for its hardware-based software,

First, hardware, software is written on hardware.

[Yrec]

It remains the warrior (and all civil servants afterwards) to teach linux use. We'll have to open educational programs and change the school curriculum in computer science.

[Yura]

Quote: Yrec

It remains the warrior (and all civil servants afterwards) to teach linux use.

What are you talking about? Do you want to tell us all military equipment on Windows? Take a cold shower to wake up.

Quote: Yrec

We'll have to open educational programs and change the school curriculum in computer science.

In our area, even in the staircase, there is one of some Linux, not to mention health, in schools in many, if not in the whole region, there is Altlinux.

[sogdy]

Quote: Jura

in schools in many, if not in the entire area, Altlinux stands.

version of Neo Altlinux. When upgrading, changes the screensaver to Alt.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Jura

What are you talking about? Do you want to tell us all military equipment on Windows?

At the headquarters are screw machines, unfortunately.
And you are lucky with the region, we have Windows everywhere. An IT specialist is a dumb and lazy bastard for the most part, he doesn’t like to study, I don’t even talk about work ...

[kakvastam]

Quote: Yrec

It remains the warrior (and all civil servants afterwards) to teach linux use.

Do not worry, most of them can not use Windows either. At their level of ownership, even retraining is not needed, and even if familiar icons are attached to the desktop ...

[forty-eighth]

Elbrus is good, but what about Baikal?

[Henderson]

And Baikal is a licensed MIPS32. That is, the core is not Russian, and the production of TSMC.

[Waldemar]

MIPS architecture, not the core. Do you understand the difference?

[Genry]

Baikals (MIPS and ARM) for small-sized, specialized devices.

[Peter Smith]

Quote: Zubr

Well, that's nice, but they’ll close the information space of mines. defense finally. Stop sitting under Melkosoft.

You probably didn’t work under Linux. I am an advanced user of Windows, when I pushed with Linux, back at the level of use, I was helpless like a gudgeon on the lunar surface.
But elbrus is such a fawn, it will not be able to work normally, it is inefficient, approximately 15 years behind Microsoft. So, it can control the operation of a water pump. But not above this level.

[Vard]

If you play ... then yes ... and if applied, then it will be enough ... I still have 133 stump working with auto-cad and editor ... and playing only pulls the scarf ... by the way, the computer is not Internet ... so no problems ...

[Henderson]

Try to run some kind of CAD or at least a PostgreSQL database on it. Then you will talk about "enough".

[Vard]

The compass pulls ... Desktop DBMS, of course it slows down ... but it chews ...

[Henderson]

133 stump pulls the compass? Yes, the compass in the mandatory processor requirements is support for SSE2.
Or do you have a version there 15 years ago and you draw crosswords in it?

[Yura]

Quote: Peter Smith

So, it can control the operation of a water pump.

Everything is clear, you are "Semyon Lodkin".

[Genry]

Quote: Peter Smith

You probably didn’t work under Linux. I am an advanced user of Windows, when I pushed with Linux, back at the level of use, I was helpless like a gudgeon on the lunar surface.

If you are transplanted from a passenger car to a truck (I am silent about armored vehicles), then you will also long unlearn your "advancement" (the usual set of button presses).

Quote: Peter Smith

But elbrus is such a fawn, it will not be able to work normally, it is inefficient, approximately 15 years behind Microsoft.

Are you sure that Microsoft has released at least one processor?

[Peter Smith]

1. The slightest non-standard situation, will enter the user into a stupor. He will not be able to attach any gadget to the system unit with Linux. He cannot deliver drivers.
2. There is a typo. Intel

[Genry]

Quote: Peter Smith

1. The slightest non-standard situation, will enter the user into a stupor. He will not be able to attach any gadget to the system unit with Linux. He cannot deliver drivers.

All drivers for working through hardware interfaces work directly in the kernel without installation and are initialized when the device appears. Support is needed only at the level of service to support the IPA of the device, which is provided by a set of support programs, usually already installed or easily installed from the repository.

[Peter Smith]

I know what a repository is. Yes, everything is not always put from there even. For the average user, the Linux repository is a dark forest.

[sogdy]

Quote: Peter Smith

Windows advanced user

Also add - "certified". Those. working only in "Guest" mode.

[Peter Smith]

I don’t need any serifs. For myself, I can deal with Windows in most cases.

[kakvastam]

Quote: Peter Smith

А elbrus such a fawn, it will not be able to work normally, it is inefficient, about 15 years behind Microsoft.

I hear the speech of an "advanced user" (in terms of the degree of profanity, the expression is close to the "effective manager")!
If you do not see the difference between the processor and the operating system, is it any wonder that you can not cope with either one?

[Peter Smith]

I see the speech of an inattentive user

[Waldemar]

Elbrus8s has a 7-2016 core i17 performance in floating point numbers if that ... indirectly - otherwise why would it need ddr4. What data should he read and write on ddr4 having low performance? what nonsense? Intel 15 years ago about 8 times weaker than Baikal

[Bashibuzuk]

Why - Goodbye, and why - Hello?
Because they bought or bought 400 million and 1000 sets are still being prepared, will the software approach change? To software support?
And where will the existing developments go? And how do you organize the transition from one platform to another?
Or is it organized by an alternative MO, with other fixed assets?
Hurray, hooray, hooray, we will give the country coal, albeit small, but ... dofiga. So it turns out, in my opinion.
No, I'm koeshno, for progress - ".. different mothers are needed, different dads are important ...". But it seems to me that the software replacement will take decades. And whether it will come to its logical conclusion - BAAAA It's a big question.
...
One thing you can be sure of - the process of generating viruses for UNIX-like systems will accelerate significantly.

[Genry]

Quote: Bashibuzuk

One thing you can be sure of - the process of generating viruses for UNIX-like systems will accelerate significantly.

Why do you think so. Devices with similar systems have long been more than Windows systems (servers, smartphones, network equipment).

[Bashibuzuk]

There are many more devices, you are right. The entire grid, colloquially called the Internet, sits on UNIX.
And, domains are made up of machines on Win systems. At least in our "heritage" this is so.
Anyway, you are clearly a professional, should I explain to you about viruses?
And why did I talk about acceleration - if our MO begins to actively use the "line" - then, do not go to the grandmother, the same sworn "friends" will want to slowly "improve" the operation of our devices.
Viruses are already on unixcs. And it will become much more, that's all.

[sogdy]

Quote: Bashibuzuk

But I think that replacing the software will drag on for decades. And whether it comes to its logical conclusion is a BAAAAA big question.

So this order is the "logical conclusion". Hardware replacement of equipment.

[1536]

Finally! And do not talk about the cost / price. Apple products are an example for everyone, which is more expensive than analogues, sometimes by an order of magnitude, but is in great demand. The whole head is a competent marketing policy and quality control of products, no matter who says viruses and lack of software (mostly toys, you need to understand). I am sure that if these computers were in free sale with a preliminary indication that the same computer was in some military center of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the line would be built up. And software would have appeared all and different, etc., etc.

[Henderson]

Quote: 1536

I’m sure that if these computers were in free sale with a preliminary indication that the same computer is in some military center of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the line would be lined up

consumers are not interested in what is in the Moscow Region. They are interested in price and efficiency. To buy a deliberately weaker piece of iron, to which there is practically no software, at a price several times more expensive, no one in your mind will. Neither home users, nor even business.

[rocket757]

It is difficult, overwhelming, but it is NECESSARY to do!
As I remember yesterday what kind of processors we made !!! on the element series 133, 155 and 500 .... by the way, Elbrus was the same !!! So a name with a beard!
It used to be heated on them, but in the 500 series, it was possible to fry the eggs ... if the cooling hydrogen was temporarily shut off !!!

[region58]

Quote: rocket757

what processors did we do !!! on the elemental series 133, 155 and 500 ....

You can recall on the P-416 ... In my student years, I’ve taken such a retired ... From the periphery ... Merry ...

[rocket757]

Exactly, exactly! Someone remembers hearing how "BESM 6" whistled !!!

[region58]

Quote: rocket757

"BESM 6" whistled

don't care all the hackers in the world ...

[rocket757]

Fiction! However, this is the operator's room, in the machine room, next to the "memory" cabinets, stand U-U-U.
Where did she stand so much ??? Baikonur? Priozersk? Sofrino?

[Weight]

Quote: Beby

The Elbrus-8C microprocessor is manufactured at TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Limited).

And so what? Do you really think that they will put * bugs * in the processor? You can have a powerful piece of iron (comp), but without mathematics it is nothing ... Russians are not the last

[Henderson]

Quote: Kettlebell

You can have a powerful piece of iron (comp), but without mathematics it is nothing ..

rather without software. And under Elbrus, his cat cried.

[rocket757]

And ours, Schaub to start and do, Schaub must someone said that it is IMPOSSIBLE!

[Henderson]

Yes, everything is possible if the Zenith Arena does not drain money with the Olympics

[Weight]

I agree .... But, it’s an everyday matter --- if * softly * ask them to switch to these processors, and the software will VERY quickly appear .... Money, they are such, they will make almost anyone work in the right direction)))

[Henderson]

will not appear. Software development is an extremely expensive pleasure. And just denyuzhki will say that we will look for any ways, if only not Elbrus

[rocket757]

Quote: Kettlebell

But, everyday life --- if * softly * ask

If you gently ask !!! They and Easter Faberge for the museum will find and redeem!

[Weight]

Quote: rocket757

And ours, Schaub to start and do, Schaub must someone said that it is IMPOSSIBLE!

well noticed

[rocket757]

I’m just quoting, a striped expert on the comp said this. California forum somewhere.
I heard half a year ago.
But the statement about money is ACTUAL! Specialists also really want to eat, among other things!

[Cavalryman]

The Russian military department plans to purchase Russian computers "Elbrus" for a total amount of 400 million.

Well, finally they sold it ..
How many years have they been dragging with implementation? Nevertheless, the lobby of all firms and concerns in Russia is very strong .. I am a little familiar with security, I always wondered how Western information technologies and components can be used in serious institutions and structures .. After all, the collection of information goes behind the scenes and in which case everything can simply stop work (blue screen, etc.)
And then we are surprised how our latest developments float to the west, to China, etc.
Everything is very simple

[T.Henks]

Oh galloping lyalya in comments! All amicably linox hayut. Applications say little and do not work. And a driver. And why the hell are drivers and obscure applications in the army? Is it a warrior to sculpt software in a trench? The list of necessary is determined elsewhere. And Wishlist someone for toys during working hours are inappropriate here. The functional responsibilities of the user in the aircraft do not include counter-strikes and warcraft. And as soon as the kernel compiles and the applications are trained, then the computer will work. No frills. Two by two can be considered differently. You can for one mash cycle, but you can also try for 2 in the tenth.

[Waldemar]

Interestingly, we then inspect the processor under an electron microscope. You can add something to the crystal. Hardly in Taiwan there is our observer

[Peter Smith]

Quote: Genry

Quote: Peter Smith

otherwise, no one would have used paid Windows, since there is a free Linux.

"linАks "?
You are clearly not "our man" .... Typical "Canadian" ???
And Windows just forcibly shoves into computers while still in the store.

Transliteration - linAks. For non-knowledgeable Russians, English is Linux)

[Sands Careers General]

I know english, but never say "Linux" like "linax". "Linux, linux" only. Like my pals and others IT specialists.

[Peter Smith]

"As" introduces a clause with a noun and a verb.
I would never say "Linux as linax ".
Learn English. Useful).

[Sands Careers General]

Syoma, you have confused something, this is not an English lesson. Personally, the "Western partners" understand me and this is the main thing. And I understand them, I can communicate fluently.
Bonka opened?))

[Laksamana besar]

The servers, apparently in the data center network at the NPP, will subsequently be placed, the other day the first stage of the Mendeleev data center was launched at the Kalinin NPP. Five perimeters of physical security, protection from terrorist threats, no-fly zone with protective equipment, power supply up to 80 MW from NPP substations, 99,982% availability, etc. etc.:

[Horse, people and soul]

... and cooling.

This is unlikely that at a nuclear power plant. Nuclear plants will be the target for nuclear missiles.

Servers need to be poked so that in general few people know where they really are.

[Mentat]

Quote: Beby

vague guesses torment me

But to read the history of the creation of the processor and not throw slag on the forum is not fate?

[Beby]

Quote: Mentat

And to read the history of the creation of the processor ... not fate?

And you will share a link with the "correct" history, where there are technical details: with the help of which CADs they designed, how they described the schemes / grown structures, which primitives and macros / IP-Core were used at the same time, what exactly is transferred to TSMC for the production of these microcircuits, what tests at TSMC make sure that the product is of proper quality, and not defective (money is paid for a serviceable product)?
It so happened that for now, like me technical the information on the Elbrus-8C processors did not come across, and the science-like balabolst for technically illiterate people - it already tires me a lot.
Provide the appropriate reference (s), and then, with your help, the number of different speculations and "slag" will become less.

PS If you want your comment to be discovered by those you cite, try to press the buttonReply"under the posts you cite.

[Mentat]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

By the way, even now UNIX is the main (or one of the main ...) OS of servers of large networks

It is everywhere basic. Windows is a fairly narrow segment of desktop computers, if we take the area of ​​computing systems as a whole. Makos and Android are also Unix.
Linux is not yet as user friendly as a personal desktop OS as we would like. Moreover, its software distribution system is far from ideal. It does not give any advantages to the user, except in specific cases.

[LeonidL]

Elbrus (like many other things) is still a Soviet development decades ahead of its time, and how much remains unrealized, how much stupid examination has not passed at the application stage and lies with "black corners" in the archives ... under the ass of female employees.

[vvnab]

Something is not clear about this Astra Linux ... Can't you download it? No source? This is a violation of the principle of free software. All meaning is lost, but it’s just ugly. Could take something with a BSD license as a basis.

[Horse, people and soul]

Yeah! Mac OSX Mojave ...

[Horse, people and soul]

This iron is much more expensive than commercial from China.

[UltraRed]

At last !!! Glory to God, Allah and all other gods! The second great news on this topic this year! (The first one is about the MO order on the widespread transition to
astra linux.)
I have read all the comments and will try to dot the i's a little. like a "warrior" (26 "calendars") and for 7 years he commanded the "computer" department in the military unit and for the last 14 years I have been using Linux, well, for 23 years of "computer" biography - never had for personal use computers with the architecture of the IBM PC (x86 and amd64) and the OC family of windows .... :)

1. Regarding the "incompatibility" of "warriors" and linux .......
Absolutely nothing to worry about - for 7 years my entire department worked safely under the line, even the mesh was under NFS, not under samba ...... :) And all the "printers-scanners-f / a" "exclusive" hardware "under the control of" win-programs "under wine is sometimes even better than on the original Windows, because they were developed (as a rule) on any ancient versions of it. Moreover, the tasks of the department were, not only in computer service and office tasks , but also ..... um, to put it mildly in "working with complex 2D graphics" (even though five years have passed, but the "third prezik for a candle" will not hurt ... :)) And as a raster, and vector .......
In principle, I don't know what to work under, - the same arrows-icons-menus, - the rest is "golimy somatics", and if there is a person in the organization who is able to configure the system, install programs and connect hardware - problems
shouldn't be! And according to the stability of work under the control of illiterate personnel - the tench tears Windows - "like a hot water bottle" ...
I have a friend - the chief economist of the plant - transplanted all accounting on linux (libra office + 1C under etheroft) - and nothing, - they started to work a bit and began to work .... :)
2. Concerning viruses under Linux ....
The widespread opinion of illiterate users (mostly "winduzyatniks") that they say "there are few viruses in Linux, because it is rare, there will be as much of it as Windows - there will be viruses"), has no basis. Firstly, for a simple user, viruses under Linux are not that little - they are de facto simply NOT! Antivirus programs under the line - designed to catch Windows viruses! (I'll make a reservation that I don't take cases of targeted attacks on specific machines by "serious organizations"). Secondly, the point is not in the prevalence of the OS, but in the fact that in order for the virus to create something serious in the system, under the line, it must be launched in executable mode under the root. And this is similar to the reasoning about the safety means in the car - if it is deliberately directed into a multi-meter cliff ..... :)
3. "Baikals" are now being produced with the MIPS architecture ("Baikal T1"), designed for built-in solutions, such as routers, communicators, plotters. There is a debian assembly and a compiler for it. Apparently, the task is to get away from "pussy dependence". mi nuclear "Baikal M8" with ARM architecture for mobile devices.
For its segment - "Baikal T1" - quite an adequate piece of iron.
4. About production in Taiwan .....
Well, let's say, not only in Taiwan ..... :)
There is a well-reasoned opinion that a crystal produced "to order" and under the control of a customer is de facto free from hardware bugs, since its real topology is quite verifiable ...
5. "Factory" was bought from AMD for the production of experimental batches - and it fulfills its task.
6. The executable linux code in Elbrus is native, since I have my own compiler .... :)
T.N. OS "Elbrus" - in principle, so far only a linux distribution compiled by the same compiler and having a linux kernel (like an android), of course it is also native ...... :) Windows on "Elbrus" starts in hardware emulation mode, - (something similar to transmet) - i.e. not even wine, but a bigger brake - this is purely auxiliary, although of course it is possible to use it more quickly than quemi. (The "standard" for a drop in performance during software emulation of a foreign processor architecture is about 7 times!)
7. "Elbrus" from MCST is not a "Soviet development", but a further "refinement of the SPARC architecture," crossed "with some developments on the" Soviet Elbrus "of Babayan's times, but SPARC was apparently taken as a basis.
8. The performance of computers with dual-processor configurations "Elbrus 8" is not only higher than that of modern single-processor x86, but is also comparable to dual-processor, and even higher on some tasks (requiring, for example, parallelization of calculations). (Due to better support for multiprocessing on SPARC). But of course all this must still be supported by software.
9. One may have different attitudes towards Putin (he never voted for him himself), but the first serious financial injections into the ICST from the state went right after he came to power.
10. The organizational chart of the creation of Astra Linux - kind of reminds the story of the creation of the Turkish "military-state" distra Pardus. There is a hope that it was not in vain that I wrote a memo on it at one time .... :)
And then this "fight of Nanai boys" between VNIINS, Altas and other dewdrops - to be honest, it froze ...
Download Astra Linux as possible, except for the closed part - similar to Pardus

Well, who is curious how I got along in my "computer life without" Windows and X86:
Basic 48 for ZX-Spectrum (Z80 - ~ 1987-1995)
Basic 128 for ZX-Spectrum (Z80 - ~ 1987-1995)
TR-DOC for ZX-Spectrum (Z80 - ~ 1992-1999)
IS-DOC for ZX-Spectrum (Z80 - ~ 1995-1999)
CP / M for ZX-Spectrum (Z80 - ~ 1995-1999)
MS-DOC (x86 - ~ 1995-1999) - (in service)
Windows 3.11 (x86 - ~ 1995-1999) - (in the service)
Windows 95 (x86 - ~ 1995-1999) - (in the service)
Windows 98 (x86 - ~ 1998-2000) - (in the service)
Windows 98 SP2 (x86 - ~ 1999-2001) - (in the service)
AMIGA OS 3.1 (68xxx - ~ 1992-1999)
AMIGA OS 3.5 (68xxx - ~ 1999-2001)
AMIGA OS 3.9 (68xxx + PPC - ~ 2001-2018)
Mac OS 7.5-6 (68xxx - ~ 1997-1999)
Mac OS 8.1 (68xxx - ~ 1999-2001)
Windows Millenium (x86 - ~ 2002-2003) - (in service)
Windows 2000 (x86 - ~ 2002-2003) - (in the service)
Windows XP (x86 - ~ 2004-2010) - (in the service)
Windows Vista (x86 - ~ 2009-2010) - (in service)
ASP Linux 9 (x86 - ~ 2004-2005) - (in service)
Mandrake Linux 10.0-1 (x86 - ~ 2005-2008) -
Alt Linux 4.1 (x86 - ~ 2008-2010)
Yelloy Dog Linux 6.1-2 (PPC - ~ 2008-2018)
Red Ribbon Linux 5-7 (PPC - 2011-2018)
Android 2.1-2 (ARM - 2010-2011)
Lubuntu Linux 11.10-12.10 (ARM --2010-2018)
Mac OS X (PPC - 2015-2018)
Debian Linux 6-9 (PPC-2015-2018)

[LeonidL]

Is China's consumer goods dear? Who doubts this? But purely firmware and bookmarks from friends and partners.

[yehat]

The Russian Federation returned with the policy of the USSR when it is trying for internal needs to create computer hardware and software, with only one amendment - on a scale much smaller and to a large extent on a foreign element base

[ASASHOKA]

In order to be your own and work with the whole world, you need to invest in your own and make for yourself what is needed and in full (this is a kind of another space program for us). To be ours - you need to do and develop!

[Zaurbek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwg21Uua9Bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcxA0bv6iNY


With regards to Elbrus ...

[volgro]

It has long been said that we have missed this technological order and hopelessly lagged behind. Overtake everyone in the new technological order. There will be electronics but new physical principles, and then it’s worth it to sell its operating system and sell it to the whole world.

[LeonidL]

Already done - quantum computers.

[super duper]

I mean buy and translate? That is, the United States has been your potential number 1 opponent for many years and right now American processors and American software are working in the Moscow Region, and all smartphones have Android and Ayos ???? And you say that the United States considers the Russian Federation a serious enemy? :))))

[ont65]

Not that the department, few states can organize both special environmental protection measures and special infrastructure for their own tasks of communication and management. - Parallel reality for most. And it’s quite at the level, both in terms of the quality of the performance technique and the reasonableness of this special software. Well, it’s necessary, it’s so. In addition, this is the testing ground for running information technologies in the defense structure. Scientific military thought, in any case, got its own instrument, on which it still has to work and work. Like Tokarev over his AK.

[D. Dan]

And right, it's time. And the fact that iron is expensive, so think that you can hammer nails with these know-how, but in such a design everything is always expensive! To demolish a holey Windows.

[Igor Polovodov]

And the name of the operating system itself could be thought out more seriously, well, let it be based on the Linux kernel, like makoshi on the Unix ...
Astralinux ...
Astra is a flower, beautiful, but is it appropriate ...
with the same success could be Roza, Azalia or even Cornflowers ...
And then where is the competition for the name of the domestic OS brand ....