Military Review

"Great Purge": fighting fists

757
Since the 20th party congress in 1956, many people have fallen under the power of the myth of the "bloody tyrant to Stalin," which killed millions of people. Allegedly all repressed - innocent victims of Stalinist tyranny.


But in fact, most of the convicts were bandits, thieves, murderers, rapists, and real "enemies of the people." And thanks to the fight against the “fifth column” on the eve of World War II, the Red Army had a reliable rear, which allowed the USSR-Russia to stand under the blows of Hitler’s European Union and win the most brutal war in stories humanity.

As a typical example of a blow of repression, you can take the story of Abel Yenukidze. He is a professional revolutionary, from October 1918, a member of the Presidium and secretary of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, from December 1922 to March 1935, secretary of the CEC of the USSR. In February, 1937 was arrested and 30 of October of the same year was shot by the sentence of the Military Collegium of the USSR Supreme Court. In 1960, the Yenukidze case was revised, and he was posthumously rehabilitated as a victim of Stalinist repression, and also reinstated to membership in the Communist Party.

Why was a prominent revolutionary repressed? 5-7 June 1935 of the year, at a meeting of the Plenary Meeting of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b), among other topics, addressed the issue "On the official staff of the Secretariat of the CEC of the USSR and Comrade A. Enukidze". The Resolution of the plenum of 7 on June 1935 stated: “1. To approve the measures taken by the control bodies to check and improve the official office of the Secretariat of the CEC of the USSR. 2. For the political and domestic decay of the former CEC secretary, Comrade. A. Enukidze to withdraw him from the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) and exclude him from the ranks of the CPSU (b) ”. In fact, a high-ranking party functionary fell into disgrace.

Yenukidze became the central figure of the "Kremlin case". He was accused of treason and espionage. He was also charged with participation in the “military-fascist conspiracy in the Red Army” (“The Case of Tukhachevsky-Yakir”), which aimed to carry out a military coup in the USSR and overthrow the power of the Bolshevik Party. Yenukidze was one of the key figures in this conspiracy: they were recruited by the Kremlin commandant R. A. Peterson, who was assigned by the conspirators to train personnel for the capture of the Kremlin at the time the military coup began.

In addition, it turned out that Yenukidze is a sexual pervert. Maria Svanidze, who was part of Stalin’s family circle (wife of Alyosha Svanidze, brother of the first wife of I. Stalin) wrote in the 28 diary on June 1935: “Abel, undoubtedly, in that position, had a tremendous influence on our life during 17 years after the revolution. Being depraved and voluptuous himself, he smelled everything around him: he was delighted with pandering, family discord, girls seduction. Having in his hands all the blessings of life, unattainable for all, especially in the first years after the revolution, he used it all for personal dirty purposes, buying women and girls. Too bad to talk and write about it. Being an erotically abnormal and obviously not one hundred percent man, every year he switched to more and more young and finally came to the girls in 9-11 years, corrupting their imagination, corrupting them, if not physically, then morally. This is the foundation of all the ugliness that happened around him. Women with suitable daughters owned everything. Girls as unnecessary palmed off to other men, more unstable morally. The institution recruited staff only on sex, like Abel. In order to justify his debauchery, he was ready to encourage him in everything: he walked widely towards her husband, who left his family, children, or simply drove her husband with a ballerina, a typist, etc., unnecessary for him, so as not to be too much in view of the party, he surrounded himself with non-partisan , secretaries, friends and acquaintances - from the theatrical world) ”. These words were confirmed by the testimony of other members of the "Kremlin case".

Thus, the Yenukidze case is a typical example of how they misinterpret the true history of repression and the struggle against the “fifth column” under Stalin. When murderers, rapists and traitors are turned into "innocent victims of Stalinism."



Peasant War

The confrontation between the peasants and the authorities was one of the brightest and bloody pages of the Civil War in Russia and the subsequent construction of socialism in the USSR — dekulakization, collectivization.

To understand the essence of this process, it is necessary to recall the deep essence of the catastrophe of 1917-1920. In Russia, the Romanovs divided the people into noble “Europeans”, a westernized social elite who had access to education, balls, champagne, restaurants, trips abroad and, in general, a “beautiful life”, and ordinary people who had been hating for centuries of social injustice, established in Russia. World war led to the fact that millions of ordinary men were put under arms, thrown into a bloody meat grinder. A huge mass of people have been accustomed to blood, violence. And this mass consisted of people who did not understand the essence of the war - after all, nobody attacked Russia! The Straits and Constantinople are for the intelligentsia, and not for the peasant. Ordinary men hated power (and after "Bloody Sunday", the tsar also lost their priesthood), the landowners who stole their land and the bourgeoisie, capitalists, and all intellectuals in general. Stolypin and Rasputin - this was understood, therefore, by all means and tried to save Russia from a big war. In an outwardly prosperous Russian empire, a social volcano lurked, ready to explode at any moment. All that was needed was a fuse — it was the world war in which Western “partners” pulled Russia into it.

Therefore, the soldiers, yesterday's peasants, and became a revolutionary crowd, which according to the concept of revolutionaries-Februaryists and swept away the king. There was a turmoil, a time when it was possible to beat “noble” officers, well-fed bureaucrats, priests and bourgeois, generally “anti-ligents”. Millions of people went for the revolutionaries — the Social Revolutionaries, the people's socialists, the anarchists, the Mensheviks, the Bolsheviks, etc.

As a result, the war led to the beginning of a new peasant war in Russia. Soldiers and sailors killed the officers. The peasants divided the landowners' land and burned the estates. And all this before the October Revolution! The people used the February revolution, which was organized by the then “elite”, in order to free themselves from any power! He did not want to obey the officials, pay taxes, go to serve in the army, feed the city. There was a process of complete alienation of Russian from the state. And after October, when the two authorities, two projects for the restoration of Russia as a state — red and white — came together in a deadly battle, the peasants did everything to destroy statehood, power in the country.

The peasants spontaneously put forward their project for the future of Russia — people's liberty of the people. The utopian ideal of life of free farmers, farmers who received land in the property and on the concepts of neighborhood processing it. Therefore, peasant uprisings, disobedience, mass banditry - the whole peasant war, which runs parallel to the war of the Reds and Whites, has become one of the leading processes of the Civil War in Russia. The Russian peasantry paid a terrible price for their attempt to destroy statehood on the territory of Russian civilization. This Russian revolt - spontaneous and terrible, managed to suppress with great difficulty.

It is this in-depth process that became the basis of the conflict between the peasantry and the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks believed that only the proletariat, deprived of property, could build a bright future. The proletariat did not lose anything except “their chains”, and the kulaks and middle peasants, the well-to-do landowners, lost a lot — land, equipment, cattle, acquired good and, most importantly, the dream of a full, measured life (rural image of bourgeois psychology), which interferes with the state. Not surprisingly, the prosperous peasantry was hostile to the Soviet government. What else can you expect from people who are accustomed to living in a “market-bazaar” economy: when produced goods can be brought to the market and sold at an inflated price. At the same time, people knew how to work, to work hard. And now they were told that all this will not happen.

After the abolition of serfdom in Russia in the village began the offensive of capitalism. Very tough process. There was a hard selection. Who could not stand it, “did not fit into the market,” became a poor man, a farmhand at his master or fist, or left for the city, became a worker. The Bolsheviks could promise the peasants only the land. This was done by the Social Revolutionaries, who were more popular in the countryside than the Bolsheviks. And it was they who provoked and organized the majority of peasant riots. When the Bolsheviks took power, they were forced to agree to the distribution of land to the peasants. There was no other way to enlist the support of the overwhelming majority of the inhabitants of Russia.

The conflict between the peasants and the Soviet government began in 1918, when the food crisis broke out. Cities starved and demanded bread. Food in the country was. Even during the war, the harvests were good, trade declined and the peasants accumulated surpluses, which they cleaned up to better times. It was possible to get bread in two ways: exchange it for industrial products, or forcibly withdraw it by paying a token amount. Production began to crumble back in the war years (except for the military industry, which went uphill), the ruble turned into a "candy wrapper". The authorities encountered this problem during the reign of the tsar and the Provisional Government and began the surplus. This is a policy of providing foodstuffs by taxing grain on peasants (“bread”) and other products. As a result, the beginning of the additional development was initiated by the tsarist government at the end of 1916 of the year and continued by the Provisional (in the form of “grain monopoly”), and then by the Soviet government.

"Grain monopoly" was confirmed by the Decree of the Council of People's Commissars of 9 in May 1918, the "food dictatorship" was also introduced. The redevelopment was reintroduced by the Soviet authorities in early January 1919, and became part of the policy of "war communism". It is clear that the peasants refused such a bad bargain, which they were offered by the government, first royal, then Provisional and Soviet. Then the Bolsheviks sent food to the village. It is clear that it was not without massive abuses on the part of the authorities. The rejection of a market economy and the policy of "war communism" also did not contribute to the growth of the popularity of communism in the countryside.

Thus, in Russia in 1917 — 1918. there was a peasant war, which was a significant part of the Russian unrest. It became one of the reasons for the defeat of the White movement, which could not and did not want to find a common language with the peasantry. Pre-revolutionary orders, the power of the capitalists and the big bourgeoisie, were hated by the common people. The Bolsheviks could, where by force, by conviction succeed, reassure peasant Russia. For this, the Soviet government had to temporarily give up - to introduce a new economic policy (NEP) with elements of a market economy. As a result, Russia in the 1920s remained a weak, agrarian power, which had no chance in confrontation with the West. Only Stalin managed to win the second peasant war in order to turn Russia into an industrial power, to prepare the country for a new big war with the collective West.

"Great Purge": fighting fists


To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Great cleaning

The myth of the "bloody genocide of Stalin" in Ukraine
Propaganda lie of Solzhenitsyn
GULAG: archives against lies
757 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Declarant
    Declarant 27 September 2018 05: 58
    -9
    And yet, Stalin acted very short-sightedly, destroying the NEP.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 27 September 2018 07: 19
      +13
      Quote: Declarant
      And yet, Stalin acted very short-sightedly, destroying the NEP.

      The NEP is an attempt by the Trotskyists to return the country to the results of the February bourgeois revolution of the 1917 year. The task that the NEP solved was to prevent the people from building the world's first state of workers and peasants. Stalin managed to seize control and prevent them from doing so. After the assassination of Stalin, the Trotskyists in the 90 years managed to realize their dream. Well, how do you like life today in the modern NEP? Like?
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 27 September 2018 08: 49
        +16
        Samsonov is an addicted person. Again I mixed everything in one pile. Examples of nothing. One statement contradicts another.
        If only Stalin had exposed and destroyed the near-Kremlin conspirators, the same Yenukidze, Tukhachevsky, Yehuda, etc. But alas. It was under Stalin that the backbone of the "Russian superetonos" (Samsonov) was broken - a consequence of that time: families began to give birth to one or two children instead of ten or twelve.
        Quote: Samsonov
        In Russia, the Romanovs there was a division of the people into nobles, "Europeans", westernized social elite, which education was available, balls, champagne, restaurants, trips abroad and, in general, a “beautiful life”, and the common people, who for centuries have accumulated hatred for social injustice that has been established in Russia.
        My great-grandfather from peasants under the tsar-priest received education, began to build temples; his brother became a famous Russian artist, gave rise to a dynasty of artists. Come on mine. Lenin’s grandfather was a serf. However, Lenin’s father learned. And when he received the order of Vladimir, then together with the order he and his family were transferred from the middle class to the nobles. Volodya Ulyanov (Lenin) was then 12 years old. Tell me, right now, is it possible for a child from a peasant family with ten children to receive a quality higher education?
        Quote: Samsonov
        in fact, most of the convicts were gangsters, thieves, murderers, rapists and real "enemies of the people." And thanks to the fight against the “fifth column” on the eve of World War II, the Red Army had a reliable rear, which allowed the USSR-Russia to withstand the blows of the Hitlerite European Union and defeat
        The column was too big. Example refutation. My grandfather in that war (as in Finnish) fought for Russia. A communist from the neighboring village of Luka ProskurNin, known for first robbing peasants, forming collective farms, then hiding from peasants in Chechnya almost before the outbreak of war, began to serve Hitler. Together with the Nazis, he left. Miraculously, the surviving family abandoned him, from a single letter in his surname. His son Peter Lukich Proskurin began to write novels about those times. True, I did not read. And I did not watch films on them. An example that people serve the Motherland (Stalin, Khrushchev, Yeltsin, Putin come and go), and crooks - who benefits.
        If the tsar’s officers hadn’t written down the fifth column, they would have received education, you’d have looked, hadn’t fled to the Volga and the Caucasus with class right commanders, leaving half the country to ruin and genocide to the Hitler European Union. Under the king, they didn’t run so shamefully. But Samsonov’s logic does not work in this direction. There is either a defeat, or just like that.
        The story did not end on Stalin. As a result, crooks surrendered our Motherland in 1991, drove its borders back to the pre-Roman times of the 16th century. A considerable number of them now serve for grants or for becoming slaveholders, modern Hitlers of the European Union and the USA.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 27 September 2018 09: 35
          +22
          Of course, I understand everything, but Stalin did it so that in Europe, and in the USA, and especially in Japan, no one is going to give birth to children anymore on 10, or is it a natural process when moving from a village with wild infant mortality to developed urban civilization?

          Tell me, is it right now that a child from a peasant family with ten children really get a quality higher education?


          Much more real than, for example, Mikhail Lomonosov. Actually, that's why everyone knows Lomonosov, because he was one of tens of millions who wanted and made his way, and thousands of modern students are nobody.

          When the king did not run so shamefully.


          What are you talking about! I would like to remind you if you heard about this, but the army of the 18-19 of the 20th century are actually officers-noblemen who swear allegiance to some of the peasants from whom demand is zero. And there is a huge difference between the Soviet conscript, undergoing a complex propaganda treatment and personally reading the oath and other obligations and an illiterate peasant of the 19 century, who was recruited for recruits.

          And at the same time, the level of transition to service to the enemy at that time is simply rolls over. For noble families, emerging from more feudal times - this is not at all zapadlo. Peter I still had an army of foreign military experts, and of course, in the event of a change in the situation, these people willingly went to the service of others.

          You would not tell tales.

          If I had not recorded in the fifth column the children of the royal officers.


          And Marshal Shaposhnikov, he doesn’t even "kill the tsarist officer", he is already a tsarist colonel. And the civil war is a war that the tsarist colonels won against the tsarist generals. Approximately 40% of the officers of the tsarist army went to serve with the Bolsheviks, and how many were those who did not go, but did not interfere. And back in 1927, an amnesty was announced to the participants of the white movement in the USSR, and many returned, and even served in the Red Army.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 32
            -4
            Well, as a "reward" for the betrayal, the Bolsheviks let these deserters into a spray.
            Of the 70 thousand officers who served with the Reds, in 1941, 450 people remained in service, almost zero.
            1. mavrus
              mavrus 27 September 2018 11: 46
              +13
              It’s interesting, what do you think should have been the length of service in the Red Army ... In order for the majority of the tsar’s officers to remain in service 24 years after the assignment of officer ranks?
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 52
                -7
                24 doesn’t work at all, the GW went on until the age of 22 and the ranks were assigned there.
                As in any army, all posts from the regiment commander should have been occupied by old officers.
                So after all, they were occupied by their peers, members of the WWI, narrow-minded non-commissioned officers, of whom the marshal corps of the Red Army as a whole consisted.
                Officers are only Shaposhnikov and wartime Vasilevsky, popovich, the rest of the children of the peasants, as a rule in the non-profit war, sometimes it is simply not clear who.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 27 September 2018 16: 50
                  -2
                  This is not counting the nobles ...
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 18: 31
                    0
                    And where do the nobles?
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 28 September 2018 11: 17
                      +5
                      Moreover, the nobles, along with the peasants and priests, were in 1941 in the ranks of the Red Army, Red Army and the NKVD.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 13: 50
                        -2
                        Some, of course, consisted, but restrictions on the service were not removed from the nobility, as they were from the Cossacks in 1936.
                        During the war, they began to call, like all deprived people since 1942, when the ideological had already fled and surrendered. And in the occupied territories they went to serve the Germans.
            2. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 27 September 2018 16: 49
              +3
              More than 450. I have already counted 515.))
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 17: 52
                -2
                This is a fundamental difference, but probably 450 are RIA officers, and 515 are officers of the Provisional Government.
                However, the counter-question, but where did tens of thousands go?
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 28 September 2018 11: 23
                  +5
                  What is the fundamental difference? In fact? For example, Govorov went to school, and Bagramyan went to the ensign school under the tsar, graduated from the Provisional Government as officers - do they not count? It’s not their fault that the king didn’t renounce half a year later ...

                  Where are tens of thousands more? Including to where in our time officers of the Soviet Army went.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 28 September 2018 16: 43
                    +2
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Including to where in our time officers of the Soviet Army went.


                    Really in our time, Soviet officers were shot by thousands? What passions ...
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 18: 51
                    -1
                    They were destroyed, Sugar Medovich.
                    Read Volkov.
                    And at best they were replaced by non-commissioned WWI, and at worst obscure deviators without combat biographies, such as Voroshilov, Tymoshenko and Zhukov.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 12: 31
                      +1
                      I read how! At his place, Volkov, at first in 1920-21 a great number of officers were shot, in 1924 they fired the "last" officers - former whites, then they were massively repressed in Operation Spring, then "during the repressions of the late 30s ... the last former officers who held prominent positions in the army were exterminated "(the last again!), but however" by the beginning of the war only a few hundred former officers remained in the ranks of the army (some of them continued to occupy important posts up to front commanders). "
                      On my own, I will add that on June 21.06.1941, 40, among the Soviet generals, former officers of the pre-revolutionary army made up about 57%, and of the lieutenant generals - XNUMX%. Moreover, among them are former white (including generals) and officers nat. there were not one or two armies.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 1 October 2018 13: 14
                        +1
                        It is strange that among the front commanders "former officers of the pre-revolutionary army", even counting those who managed to get the rank of ensign, but did not manage to get combat experience on the WWII fronts in this rank, much less than 40%
                      2. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 13: 19
                        +1
                        that on June 21.06.1941, 40, among the Soviet generals, former officers of the pre-revolutionary army made up about 57%, and of the lieutenant generals - XNUMX%.
                        This is a lie, and some kind of inept children’s
                    2. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 13: 01
                      0
                      Zhukov and Tymoshenko - deviators without a military biography? You didn’t get anything wrong
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 13: 20
                        0
                        And what did they participate in the battles of the WWII? And had awards?
                        And besides memoir nonsense, is there any evidence?
              2. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 14: 07
                +1
                During the war in the Red Army, at various times 448 former RIA officers served
                This is all that remains of the 330 thousandth officer corps.
                Well, compare with the Germans and the British.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 15: 25
                  0
                  Not 448, but more than 515.
            3. zenion
              zenion 28 September 2018 16: 24
              +4
              And all the tsarist officers were young and did not resign. They served until 120 years. I know one of these by the name of Gut. Which served under the king in dragoons and guard detachment of the king. After the king renounced, they spat, and there were about 200 of them, all in officer ranks and went to the front. What was the leadership of the tsarist army they knew well. Then they served already under the interim government. Then, after all, all who remained alive from this detachment transferred to the Red Army already in the roles of commanders. In 1939, he retired in old age and received a good pension, as he said, for his long service. When the Great Patriotic War began, he asked to return to the army, but he was refused this. So he prepared sabotage units. And once, in order for future commanders of sabotage detachments to gain the necessary experience, He headed 50 Germans in August to the rear of the Germans. There he showed them in practice how and what to do. Then they returned and he received the Order of Lenin for this campaign. He taught others to be field leaders and send them to the rear. So, how could people at the age of 60 continue to serve at the forefront, years and health was already different. But Gut was a healthy man under two meters and already at 75 he could raise a guy weighing 60 kilos with one hand.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 28 September 2018 16: 47
                0
                Quote: zenion
                And all the tsarist officers were young and did not resign. They served until 120 years.


                120 is not 120, but a junior officer with combat and command experience of the PMV in 1941 would have been a little more than 40 years old. Those. most generals were supposed to be junior WWI officers, but it wasn’t
              2. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 13: 55
                0
                Some left as a hero of defense of Sakhalin and Port Arthur, Lieutenant Maximov, who served in the Red Army in the Civil War.
                In 1936 he retired and was shot in 1937 "for anti-Soviet activities."
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 September 2018 12: 03
            -5
            Quote: EvilLion
            but did Stalin do this in Europe and the USA, and especially in Japan, no one is planning to give birth to 10 children each, or is this a natural process when moving from a village with wild child mortality to a developed urban civilization?

            Population density in Europe and Japan a hundred years ago 180-260 people / km2, in Russia-9,5 person / km2 (in the European part 22 people / km2), i.e. TWENTY TIME LESS. Them nowhere there was more to grow even then and villages turned into cities.
            In Russia was where to grow and the Russian rural and urban population that it successfully and didAsking not only Siberia, Far East, but also Central Asia and the Caucasus.

            So far, experimenters who did not know how and did not understand arrived who led to a demographic catastrophe in the 30s and to the Russian Cross a little later.

            Result: in 1991, the density in Russia 8,5 person / km2-those. lessthan a hundred years ago! I-sparsely populated expanses of Siberia and the Far East, the endangered Non-Black Earth region.

            What is the density of the surrounding neighbors, everyone can see for himself. And to think, THAN it threatens ....

            PS In Western Europe there was no mention tens of thousands dead villages, as in Russia, there these villages turned to the cities.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 12: 35
              +4
              Western Europe over the 20th century has not lost as many people as Russia due to wars, this factor also cannot be discounted.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 27 September 2018 12: 39
                -8
                Yes, for this I must also say "thanks" to the Bolsheviks - the people overstrained
                1. zenion
                  zenion 28 September 2018 16: 28
                  +6
                  Under Hitler, they certainly would have prospered. Although Hitler had a program of emasculating women and men. First, in 5-10 years, destroy the Slavs to the right amount, without which they could not do. And then make them incapable of procreation. But free Bavarian beer compensated for all the shortcomings and could be finished after the pig, if she could not drink everything. Well, at least read a little historical books that write about Hitler’s plans. This was not a secret.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 28 September 2018 16: 48
                    +4
                    Who are they"? Under Hitler, the people of his own country did not die out as actively as the Russians under the Bolsheviks.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 27 September 2018 19: 23
              +8
              Quote: Olgovich
              The population density in Europe and Japan a hundred years ago is 180-260 people / km2, in Russia-9,5 people / km2 (in the European part 22 people / km2), i.e. TWENTY TIME LESS. They had nowhere to grow even then and the villages turned into cities.

              Oh, Olgovich, what did you not mention about the USA? (US population density, at the beginning of the 20th century = 7,728 people / km2.) Well, they did not breed like rabbits? Did the bloody scoop also interfere?
              Quote: Olgovich
              In Russia there was much room for growth for the Russian rural and urban population, which it successfully did, populating not only Siberia, the Far East, but also Central Asia and the Caucasus.

              Yes of course!!! Everything was as it should be !!! After all, the effect called "Demographic Transition" acts only on the basis of correct, blaarod, Euro-American, democratic values ​​!!! And stupid, Russian untermensches should, like hamsters, multiply at a breakneck speed, until they fill up all the free space available to them, even unsuitable for life! wassat am Yes, Olgovich? Pace ischo! "An anti-Soviet is always a Russophobe" (c). And you, Olgovich, are a good example of this.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 September 2018 05: 57
                -1
                Quote: HanTengri
                What

                Go away from me, I'm with foul language I do not communicate, disdain.
              2. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 28 September 2018 08: 22
                -5
                Quote: HanTengri
                And stupid, Russian non-women must, like hamsters, multiply at a frantic speed, until they fill everything available to them, free space, even unsuitable for life!

                You wrote it. Neither Olgovich, nor any other monarchist, such nonsense would even occur to him.
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 28 September 2018 11: 57
                  +8
                  Quote: Trapper7
                  You wrote it. Neither Olgovich, nor any other monarchist, such nonsense would even occur to him.

                  Naturally! Olgovichoobraznye, in general, rarely think about what kind of nonsense they, at times, carry. And when this nonsense is taken out of a beautiful wrapper and exposed, namely, nonsense, in the brains of sectarians, from the Sect of the Witnesses Nicholas the 2nd Genius (for it is difficult to call you monarchists), cognitive dissonance arises. You, Dmitry, expressed discomfort in your comment. laughing
                  1. EwgenyZ
                    EwgenyZ 28 September 2018 16: 29
                    -1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Naturally! Olgovichoobraznye, in general, rarely think about what kind of nonsense they, at times, carry. And when this nonsense is taken out of a beautiful wrapper and exposed, namely, nonsenselaughing

                    Nonsense, speak. Okay, nonsense. Those. country, population growth, in which it was on the rise, and according to estimates of demographers at the end of the century should have reached 600 million. man is nonsense. But the current situation with the demographic "pit" is not nonsense? Not? At the time of the collapse of the Union, a little more than 300 million people lived on its territory and adjacent states and territories, at the will of the Bolsheviks that became independent and ceded to other countries. To ruin the country twice in a century, this is an achievement, and most importantly, not nonsense. Continue to believe in a fantasy called "Bright Future". The history of you and your fellow minds teaches nothing.
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 28 September 2018 17: 10
                      +4
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      Those. a country whose population growth was on the rise, and according to the estimates of demographers at the end of the century, should have reached 600 million. man is nonsense.

                      Yes, nonsense. Search the net for serious articles on the topic: "Demographic Transition". Maybe something in the "pumpkin" will clear up. And, yes, the names of these "demographers" can be, with the names of scientific papers? Are they, by any chance, not from a glorious cohort of well-known "British scientists"? laughing
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. Vadim237
              Vadim237 28 September 2018 12: 34
              0
              Which neighbors have China? 94% of the total population is grouped along the coast and they are not going to move from there.
          3. Dedrusav
            Dedrusav 30 September 2018 20: 15
            0
            53% of tsarist officers crossed the red banner, this is statistics.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 20: 23
              -1
              Whose statistics? Prudnikoff or Volksdeutch Goblin
        2. marline
          marline 27 September 2018 11: 30
          +5
          Quote: Nikolay S.
          When the king did not run so shamefully.

          Yes, completeness to you. They ran worse with the king than with the advice.
          73 of RIA general surrendered for FDA. In WWII - 78 generals of the Red Army (of which 2 people are in question, because their fate is not fully understood). Now look at the size of the armies and calculate the percentage.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 34
            -4
            In RIA the number of generals was much larger, 4-5 people per division, and in the Red Army divisions were commanded by colonels. And your numbers are very arbitrary, in the first months of 41, 120 Soviet generals were captured. Such are the things.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 47
              +1
              After the capture of Warsaw, the Germans announced the capture of 70 Russian generals, then fell silent, it turned out they were retired old men of 80-90 years who did not evacuate, quietly released them.
              1. marline
                marline 27 September 2018 13: 21
                -3
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                After the capture of Warsaw, the Germans announced the capture of 70 Russian generals

                What are the Xnumx Elders? You seem to rave ...
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 25
                  0
                  The retirees who still defended Sevastopol. They did not evacuate for a number of reasons.
                  They were arrested, taken to a concentration camp, Kaiser propaganda shouted about the great Victory, then even the Germans were ashamed and returned the old men to their homes.
                  I advise you, darling, to change your tone. And then you will go into a rage and begin to be rude to others, as in the VO forum. And they will punish you, as it happens in real life hi
                  1. marline
                    marline 27 September 2018 15: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    The retirees who still defended Sevastopol. They did not evacuate for a number of reasons.

                    I understood it. And here they are? That you mix everything in a heap.
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    I advise you, darling, to change the tone. And then you will enter into a rage and begin to be rude to others, as in the VO forum. And they will punish you, as it happens in real life. hi

                    Thanks for the advice, of course, but there’s something with you that somehow doesn’t want to change the tone. Respect - you still have to earn it.
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 17: 45
                      0
                      The Germans declared prisoners of war and old pensioners, who rose to the rank of generals.
                      In Warsaw alone, 70 people were removed from a pot and a wheelchair.
                      So earn respect, try.
                      1. marline
                        marline 28 September 2018 08: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        The Germans declared prisoners of war and old pensioners, who rose to the rank of generals.

                        I brought a number to the 73 combat general.
                        Put your fantasies about the elders with you.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        So earn respect, try.

                        At the schoolboy? I'm not out of my mind yet laughing
            2. marline
              marline 27 September 2018 13: 20
              +2
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              In RIA, the number of generals was much larger

              And you cross out the civilian generals and get about the same.
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              And your numbers are very arbitrary, in the first months of the 41 year, 120 Soviet generals were captured. Such are the things.

              61 people for 1941 year. And nothing conditional.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 26
                -7
                And in RI there were no civilians who wore generals.
                61 people in 1941. And nothing conditional. // And there is 120 data for three months.
                1. marline
                  marline 27 September 2018 15: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  And in RI there were no civilians who wore generals.

                  I say, learn history.
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  And there is 120 data for three months.

                  Present.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 17: 53
                    -4
                    The civilian ranks were absent from the courtiers and from the right hand and from the mountain.
                    Show. / / Bunich writes, refute in the operation "Thunderstorm".
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 27 September 2018 19: 54
                      +3
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Show. / / Bunich writes, refute in the operation "Thunderstorm".

                      Bunich Igor Lvovich (September 28, 1937 - June 15, 2000) - Russian writer and publicist. He gained fame thanks to works in the genre of political journalism and folk history. Also the author of popular historical books on the naval theme. http://www.koob.ru/bunich/

                      You mean this Bunich? Yes? Now, try to prove that his "Operation Thunderstorm. Bloody games of dictators" is not a work of style folk history! laughing
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 07
                        -4
                        Yes, I will not argue if officially 78 people were captured.
                      2. marline
                        marline 28 September 2018 08: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        And your numbers are very arbitrary, in the first months of the 41 year, 120 Soviet generals were captured. Such are the things.
                        Quote: merlin
                        Present.

                        Yes, I will not argue ...

                        The drain is counted.
                    2. Beringovsky
                      Beringovsky 27 September 2018 20: 27
                      +5
                      Bunich is lying. Not serious. Himmler still remember.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 49
                        -5
                        Bunich’s lies are merely a response to many decades of Soviet lies.
                        Stalin generally spoke of the seven million dead, then the numbers began to grow.
                    3. marline
                      marline 28 September 2018 08: 18
                      +7
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Bunich writes, refute in the operation "Thunderstorm".

                      Is fiction history taught at your school? Do you go through physics according to Herbert Wells?
          2. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 28 September 2018 16: 33
            -5
            Quote: merlin
            Yes, completeness to you. They ran worse with the king than with the advice.

            Yah! Is it possible about French or Swedish analogue of ROA?
            Surrender is one thing, and knowingly going to serve the enemy is another. Do not distort.
            1. sunzhenets
              sunzhenets 28 September 2018 18: 07
              +4
              EwgenyZ (Eugene) Today, 16:33 NEW
              Is it possible about French or Swedish analogue of ROA?

              Please, about French.
              in the summer of 1941, at a meeting of the leaders of these parties, it was decided to create a Legion of French volunteers. There was a meeting on July 7, and a recruiting center had already opened on 8.
              In two weeks - 8 volunteers. 000 from the occupied zone, 5 from the Vichy zone.
              Of these 8, 000 French regiments were selected in 638 as part of the Wehrmacht, 3 soldiers.
              They sent them to the Eastern Front. While traveling, about 500 soldiers and officers froze from the cold and fell ill.
              December 1, 1941 - baptism of fire at the village of Dyakovo. We went on the attack without artillery preparation of tanks at position 32 of the Saratov Red Banner Division. The result is a little predictable. December 6, they are led to the rear. Losses - 65 killed, 420 wounded and sick. In 1 battalion, 3 out of 4 company commanders were out of order.
              Further ordinary German bureaucratic turmoil. The regiment is divided, combined, formed, reformatted, and so on. They even formed a company from the Arabs. In June 1942, they were thrown into Belarus against the partisans, where the regiment suffered "heavy losses." Which ones are unknown.
              In total, from July 1941 to May 1943, 6 people passed through the regiment. The exact losses, as always, are unknown.
              The creation of this regiment, I recall, is a private initiative of right-wing politicians. Unlike recruitment in the SS.
              The French in the SS
              Already on May 1, 84 Germans, French citizens and 8 French, joined the SS.
              The recruitment took place informally, of course. But July 22, 1943 Vichy officially allowed to serve as volunteers in the SS troops.
              And by August 18, 1943, about 1 tried to join the French SS regiment, but about 500 people were accepted.
              Then the regiment was renamed the 57 Grenadier Regiment of the SS (French No. 1) - 1 people.
              In July 1944, the regiment was deployed to the SS France volunteer assault brigade. The first battalion of this brigade was transferred to Galicia in early August - 18 officers and 1 soldiers and non-commissioned officers. By the end of August, 000 fighters and 140 officers remained in the battalion.
              In September 1944, all French volunteers from all military branches were transferred to the SS.
              Thus appeared the 33th Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne.
              Read more - "The French in the Wehrmacht", Alexey Ivakin. Http://www.pomnivoinu.ru/home/reports/1844/
              1. sunzhenets
                sunzhenets 28 September 2018 18: 16
                +1
                The Swedes are actually out of place here, because Sweden did not participate in the war. But also noted.
                Even during the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939, 9000 volunteers went to fight in Finland as part of the Swedish Volunteer Corps.
                In the summer of 1941, when Finland attacked the Soviet Union for the third time, this corps again went to fight as part of the Finnish armed forces - 12000 soldiers. Yes, it was the third time — the first two times were in 1918 and 1921.
                In addition to this corps, the Swedes fought in the SS troops.
                Of course, the numbers are not impressive. So, by May 4, 1940, only three volunteers served in the SS. And by 1942 - 39 people.
                In 1944, several hundred (the exact number is unknown) moved from the Finnish army to the SS. So, in Pomerania, near the city of Vulkov, two Swedish companies suffered heavy losses from Soviet artillery fire. 31 Swedes were captured, the rest took refuge in the Swedish consulate.
                13 people served in the Wehrmacht, 2 in Kriegsmarine, 4 in the Luftwaffe.
                Trade with Germany. The Swedes made their gesheft ...
                This is 58 million tons of iron ore, 60 thousand tons of bearings, 7 million tons of pulp, 13 million cubic meters of wood, 70 thousand tons of machinery and equipment.
                40% of German armored vehicles were made of Swedish steel.
                LKAB supplied the Nazis with iron and copper ore;
                SKF and VKF - bearings (VKF - a branch of SKF in Germany);
                Asea, Atlas, Atlas Copco, Electrolux, Ericsson, Husqvarna, Sandvik, Volvo - machinery and equipment;
                Bofors - weapons and ammunition;
                SCA, Swedish Match - pulp and paper products, tobacco products.
                In 1941, Sweden allowed the transit of the 163rd German infantry division in its entirety to Finland.
                Vacationers from Norway and Finland also traveled to Germany and back via Sweden
                From here: Swedes in the Wehrmacht and the SS, Alexey Ivakin http://www.pomnivoinu.ru/home/reports/1848/
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 20: 36
                  -2
                  12000 fighters is about as much as it took to the war from one area.
        3. Rastas
          Rastas 27 September 2018 13: 11
          +5
          You yourself are all mixed up in a bunch. Where will city residents give birth to 9-12 children? Where to live with them? In a 3-room? Then, a large number of children had a completely mundane goal under them - to receive additional allotment. my ancestors by mother are Cossacks from the Kuban and Terek. They had 2-3 children in their families with the king; donning this did not increase. Read how Lenin’s grandfather left the serfs with V. Loginov in his first book on Lenin. It doesn't smell like a social elevator. As, by the way, and in other cases. Turgenev described this in the images of officers in the village who received freedom for not too attractive activities.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 32
            -1
            receipt of additional allotment. my ancestors by mother are Cossacks from the Kuban and Terek. They had 2-3 children in their families with the king, it didn’t increase the allotment. // You cheat or confuse. For each young Cossack, he stood out from 16 years old so that he was going to serve.
            1. Rastas
              Rastas 28 September 2018 15: 01
              0
              I did not give it to my family. Have we been here for 16 years? Especially if the girls are still born.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 17: 06
                -3
                See the allotment stood out for a male Cossack from 16 years old, from the reserve stanitsa fund. Is it clear now? Somewhere it could be 30 acres, somewhere 6-8, if we are talking about the Kuban.
        4. Fitter65
          Fitter65 27 September 2018 13: 46
          +7
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          Tell me, is it right now that a child from a peasant family with ten children really get a quality higher education?

          Right now, even one is problematic, although under the Soviet regime such problems did not arise. Especially when the collective farm was interested in obtaining its specialist, young people went to universities and other educational institutions in a variety of ways, by itself if the young man expressed a desire. so the scholarships from collective farms were not bad for them. Yes, and upon graduation, other preferences were issued. and young people, in many cases, after an agreed period, remained in their native village or village.
          1. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 28 September 2018 16: 45
            -2
            Quote: Fitter65
            Right now, even one is problematic, although under the Soviet regime such problems did not arise.

            Aha did not arise. Have you seen a lot of large families under Soviet rule? I remember only one such in our neighborhood with three children (and even then they lived poorly), usually one, maximum two ("so as not to produce a collective farm").
            I grew up alone, now my mother asks why she did not give birth to my brother or sister, refers to what she raised, and when I ask why Her friends, in complete families, also one at a time, duck used to be so, says. So it is not necessary that everything was different under the USSR, the current situation is a direct result of the activities of the Soviet government, whether you like it or not!
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 29 September 2018 18: 16
              +2
              Large - where are three children and more? Under Soviet rule, I saw the following:
              1. Neighbors (in the private sector within a radius of 120 m.): Three families of three children, one of them is a single mother, consecutively giving birth to three husbands, one family - seven.
              2. Classmates - two families of three, one - three or four, one - five.

              "Do not produce a collective farm" - I have never heard this. I heard "not to breed poverty", but this is already the formula of the 1990s.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 13: 58
                -4
                since 1960, Russians have lost the reproduction of the population. In Asia and the Caucasus, peoples were still multiplying.
        5. Nick_R
          Nick_R 27 September 2018 14: 36
          -1
          Wonderful review turned into the last refuge of the Stalinists. It is simply disgusting to read articles in which millions of our grandfathers, great-grandfathers and their brothers and sisters are called traitors and scoundrels, "justly" shot, exiled, deprived of their homes and property. I see no reason to appeal to such people to reason or conscience, they do not believe in God, so the worms and time will pass their judgment on them.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 27 September 2018 16: 36
            +6
            Broadcast like a political instructor. Less saliva. My grandfather was dispossessed, but he was a small fist, they were resettled from Kirovograd to the Zaporizhzhya region, before the war they were allowed to return. True, the grandfather had great hatred for fists larger, for they had repeatedly tried to take his household to his hands. And even more so, he never considered them for brothers and did not regret their fate.
          2. L cornelius sulla
            L cornelius sulla 28 September 2018 22: 20
            -3
            And what do you want from the Stalinists, people who want to be voluntarily slaves to the dictator, in which the peasants did not have any partitions, in which genetics was declared pseudoscience.
            Do not forget that even one of the founders of the RSDLP, Alexander Potresov, after the October coup began to call the policy of the Bolsheviks "socialism of fools" and "the power of the oligarchic clique." And under Stalin, all this only worsened.
            And why is it worth the fact that ALL (I emphasize ALL) people's commissars of internal affairs were enemies of the people.)
            Leadership has always been a disaster for any political trend, and Stalinism is leaderism brought to the point of absurdity.
            The Stalinists like to blame democracy for everything, but we did not have real democracy (with the exception of the times 1-4 Duma, which can be called democratic for a stretch, and which these citizens did not find). There was and is an oligarchy of (post-) Soviet leaders.
            The Stalinists love "friendship of peoples", but friendship is always directed against the Russians: for example, the Ukrainization of the 1930s is the basis of the current dill (which they so love to call ukrreich, but in reality it is ukrUganda of the times of Amin, which was not so difficult would even crush, if the post-Soviet crypto-Stalinist leadership of the erefia would have enough will to become Russians, and not remain scoops).
            They understand even the idea of ​​socialism, as in that joke:
            In 1917, the Decembrist’s granddaughter hears a noise on the street and sends a servant to find out what is the matter.
            Soon, the servant returns:
            - There is a revolution, mistress!
            - Oh revolution! It's great! My grandfather was also a revolutionary! And what do they want?
            “They want the rich not to be.”
            - It’s strange ... And my grandfather wanted no poor people
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 07
              +3
              Quote: L Cornelius Sulla
              -2
              And what do you want from the Stalinists, people who want to be voluntarily slaves to the dictator, in which the peasants did not have any partitions, in which genetics was declared pseudoscience.

              And before the revolution did the peasants have passports?
              You don't know everything about genetics either. Repeat the myths of 80-90
              1. L cornelius sulla
                L cornelius sulla 30 September 2018 10: 26
                +3
                We look at the photo of the passport and see .. the peasant.
            2. trahterist
              trahterist 1 October 2018 06: 52
              +1
              And again this nonsense about the lack of passports ...
              My grandfather, his sister and wife had passports, from Stalin's time.
              Stop brazenly lying already !!
            3. gsev
              gsev 15 November 2018 00: 28
              0
              But you cannot refute such a truth that the removal of the Communists from power plunged the Russians into a demographic hole from which they still cannot get out. There was nothing similar in the history of Russia. Even in the Great Patriotic War in 1944, the population of the USSR began to grow. The Russian population has been declining since 1992, under Yeltsin very quickly, under Putin it is slower, and there is more depopulation among the educated layers.
        6. Looking for
          Looking for 27 September 2018 17: 29
          +1
          Ei balabol. Can you pronounce the surname of the pradel-artist? By the way. Until 1991 we all fought for the USSR and not for Russia., Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc. In one word, BALABOL !!!
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 17: 46
            -3
            Well, how did they fight in 1991?
            1. Beringovsky
              Beringovsky 27 September 2018 20: 34
              +3
              They fought well, so the USSR had to be destroyed from the inside, with the help of traitors. Because they couldn’t do it outside.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 27 September 2018 21: 16
                -3
                But Merika with the help of traitors failed to destroy ... But what kind of KPA was there ...
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 09
                  +3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  0
                  But Merika with the help of traitors failed to destroy ... But what kind of KPA was there ...

                  Enough to be sarcastic, don't you know that the members of the CPA were not allowed into the governing bodies of the state? Forgot about the "witch hunt"?
                2. gsev
                  gsev 15 November 2018 00: 34
                  0
                  If Russia today had hundreds of reports of how heartless policemen kill innocent drug dealers and thieves, they would be able to. 3 such reports caused riots in the black towns of the United States. Another thing is that the intelligentsia of the United States is sane and for it the representative of a foreign agent is really an opponent of the motherland. And on the insane was Senator Macartney, the FBI and the Mafia.
        7. A.
          A. 29 September 2018 04: 26
          -2
          Thank you, write correctly.
          An article, from the wind of someone's head, for those who do not know history. And if the ancestors were "kulaks" and you know what kind of people they were.
        8. nickname7
          nickname7 17 December 2018 10: 50
          0
          a consequence of that time: instead of ten or twelve children, families began to give birth to one or two children.

          These are the consequences of relocation to cities. In all developed countries, there was no Stalin, there was a decrease in family affairs among the townspeople. So, it is not Stalin who is to blame for the reduction of families, but urbanization.
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 29 September 2018 19: 33
        -2
        NEP was introduced by Lenin, not Trotsky. Trotsky was just against it, advocating war communism. Stalin, by the way, was also for the NEP. And to believe the testimony of the inmates of the Lubyanka ... They drowned each other verbally, but real, physical evidence - zero. They beat Primakov well, and he carried a blizzard to everyone he knew ... there, apart from verbal accusations, there is not a single physical fact (secret writing, encryption, documents, walkie-talkies, etc.). For example, as "evidence" of the guilt of the military leaders, they again cited, verbally, their flights to negotiations with Hitler in neutral countries on airplanes, but ... nowhere and never was this recorded, but in reality people were in completely different places. I do not exclude that there may have been chatter in a close circle, but there was no real military conspiracy, and it could not be. Only now the investigation willingly swallowed such "evidence". there were a lot of slips of the tongue for very mundane motives - to get a room in an apartment, a position, a woman, revenge, envy, etc. there everything is not so simple and it is clear why Stalin eventually shot Yezhov and quieted zealous figures from the NKVD, practically sending them to paths of their own persons under investigation.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 27 September 2018 09: 01
      -16
      Quote: Declarant
      And yet, Stalin acted very short-sightedly, destroying the NEP.

      The victory of the NEP meant the disappearance of the power of the Bolsheviks and the inevitable transfer of power to the people.
      In addition, it turned out that Yenukidze is a sexual pervert. Part of the family circle of Stalin Maria Svanidze (wife of Alesha Svanidze, brother of the first wife of I. Stalin)

      The author, apparently, does not know that the aforementioned Maria was Shot "anti-Soviet activities and terrorism" The same power that shot Yenukidze. Those. Is one "enemy of the people" more "authoritative" than another "enemy of the people"? request
      But in fact, most of the convicts were bandits, thieves, murderers, rapists and real "enemies of the people."

      Need respect Legislation of the Russian Federation, who recognized the majority of the so-called. "enemies of the people" illegally repressed, rehabilitated and entitled to compensation.

      And if it’s just humanly, I’d like to know who they were convicted of and what they were almost guilty of. million Russian children deported to the North peasants in 1930 / 33gg, in the huts from poleswhere they worked logging , crafts, etc.?
      So in Russia in 1917-1918 years there was a peasant war, which was a significant part of the Russian unrest
      . No, the war went on and on: until the 1930s, it was hot, and then, when the peasants by hook or by crook fled the village, not wanting to work hard and almost for free. .
      As a result, Russia in the 1920s remained a weak, agrarian power, having no chance in confrontation with the West.

      And how before this power Russia stood against the West in 1000 years and became the largest country in the world?
      And with her, she squeezed to size 17 century? request
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 27 September 2018 10: 03
        +15
        No, the war went on and on: until 1930x was hot, and later, when the peasants fled the village by hook or by crook, not wanting to work hard and practically for free.


        What pisses me off is that even my father, born in 1958, from the village, does not understand at all how wonderful it was when we plowed on horses and oxen. When there were no "stinking KAMAZ trucks" that are transporting 10 tons at a time. All of you who are talking about collectivization should be put to the plow, the beginning of the 20 of the 20th century, and see how you work on it for 10 on the day. After that, you will probably kiss each tractor wheels and caterpillars and give a prayer to 5 once a day to praise Vissarionych, who saved your grandfathers from such necessity by building them tractor plants and creating collective farms where the tractors are cost-effective.

        It is necessary to introduce into the school curriculum "lessons on the right to brains" so that everyone can feel on their own skin what it was like in tsarist Russia and what it is like now, somewhere in Indian villages, where mechanization was not brought.

        And how to this power, Russia stood up against the West during 1000 years and became the largest country in the world?


        Because this ice desert was not needed by anyone. And from the 6 of modern giant states, 5 are completely uninhabitable wastelands in the vast majority of the territory, even China, and it is populated only on the coast. If you install a brain in an empty head and get acquainted with the history a little, you will see that the whole European expansion was directed a century towards the places where it is more pleasant to live and the British Empire surpassed Russia by area. And the Russian expansion was also sent not to Siberia, where some Dezhnev passed, put a flag, declared a territory, and no one objects, because there is no one around, but in the direction of a developed Europe, 1 sq. Km was more valuable than a thousand sq. km in the Far East.

        If you also use the brain, it becomes clear that from the 18 of those century. progress accelerates, cars appear and as they improve, Russia turns out to be more and more on the periphery of civilization and, after defeating Napoleon, gradually loses its position, raking in the Crimean War, with difficulty defeating the Turks who had everything worse, ominously in Russian-Japanese failing the prom race. production in the WWI, which cost the Russian army 2 million lives. Do not believe, so you can even open the Wiki and see the prom. production in the years of WWI. A country can not be inferior to all several times the number of guns, tanks, aircraft, trucks produced to be somehow viable.

        In the 15th century it was good to swing sabers, more or less, the same, although even then rather less, the cost of the equipment of the European war and the Russian, as soon as it comes to relatively massive armies, and not the prince and hundreds of thugs of the squad turns out to be strongly not in favor of the Russian. So the grandfathers, who "stood for 1000 years", turned around in the process of standing as best they could, and raked in the process many times. It's okay, still really powerful states like France did not directly border on us.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 10: 33
          -13
          even my father, born in 1958 from the village, no longer understands how wonderful it was when he plowed on horses and oxen. // So they plowed themselves, and not Beria. Father is not able to understand the simplest difference? Well, then set his mind first.
          A country that is several times inferior to everyone in the number of produced cannons, tanks, planes, and trucks cannot be somewhat viable. / / In the USSR, the piece of iron was several times larger than that of the German army, and the army scattered and surrendered. Nezhdanchik, sir! :-))
          and completely failing the race prom. production in WWI, which cost the Russian army 2 million lives // 1 million lives, killing 2 million Austro-Germans.
          In the Second World War, the Red Army lost 20 million lives, killing 4 million Germans and their allies.
          1. marline
            marline 27 September 2018 11: 59
            +11
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            So they plowed themselves, and not Beria.

            Would not plow on Beria, would have to plow on Alloizycha.
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            In the USSR, the piece of iron was several times larger than that of the German.And the army fled and surrendered.

            According to 1919. "Centrifugal", the total number of captured RIA soldiers - 3 people. Add 911 thousand deaths from wounds in captivity. This is 100 million mobilized.
            For comparison, in WWII the number of prisoners was about 5 million per 35 million mobilized.
            In general, shame and disgrace for the RIA.
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            1 million lives, killing 2 million Austro-Germans.

            Lying again. However, I already wrote this to you once.
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            In the Second World War, the Red Army lost 20 million lives, killing 4 million Germans and their allies.

            The losses of the Red Army - 10 million. And 4 million (or rather 5 million) - this is only the loss of Germany according to German calculations, without allies
            So once again I will repeat my advice - TO SCHOOL TO LEARN THE HISTORY OF THE MARCH, THE BOYS!
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 12
              -4
              Who cares? Both were sent to consumption :-))
              According to 1919. "Centrifugal", the total number of captured RIA soldiers - 3 911 100 people. // With internees and refugees. Military personnel 2 million 100 thousand. More opponents were taken prisoner.
              1 million lives, killing 2 million Austro-Germans. // knew how to fight, because.
              35 million were drafted into the Red Army, 15 million received a medal for "Victory over Germany", 20 million did not return home, this is without militias and partisans.
              About 4 million losses of Germany and allies on the Eastern Front. Because there were also other fronts.
              And I need to be rude, look ugly from the side.
              1. marline
                marline 27 September 2018 13: 01
                +6
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                Who cares?

                Well, this will be explained to you in Khotyn.
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                With internees and refugees.

                Not. Captured Russian servicemen
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                35 million were drafted into the Red Army, 15 million received a medal for "Victory over Germany", 20 million did not return home, this is without militias and partisans.

                And the medal "Twenty Years of Victory in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945" was awarded to 16,5 million people. According to your logic, 1,5 million people were resurrected? After 20 years of war?
                Do you ever think or write right away?
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                About 4 million losses of Germany and allies on the Eastern Front. Because there were also other fronts.

                8 649 200 million total losses of the Axis countries on the eastern front.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 13
                  -1
                  No. Captured Russian servicemen // You are wrong again. The name of the organization is "Centrifugal", think what the word bezh, root means.
                  There, Roman Gul was already listed as Prince Avalov and Skoropadsky, the hetman and the mass of refugees and internees. Approximately one and a half million soldiers were captured in Germany, and 600 thousand in other countries.
                  And the medal "Twenty Years of Victory in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945" was awarded to 16,5 million people // And there the statutes are different, the jubilee medal was awarded to anyone, including conscripts for 1965.
                  But "For the victory over Germany" only the participants of the Great Patriotic War, including those who served in the rear for six months, stood on watchtowers, in warehouses and so on.
                  20 million did not receive this medal, and did not return from the war. Without partisans and militias, by the way.
                  8 649 200 million total losses of the Axis countries on the eastern front. // Total losses are killed, wounded, prisoners, sick.
                  And we are talking about the dead.
                  You will deal with the general losses and with the dead.
                  Once again, I advise you not to be rude, I just will not communicate with you.
                  1. marline
                    marline 27 September 2018 14: 05
                    +3
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    The name of the organization is "Centrifugal", think what the word bezh, root means.

                    They counted 3,9 million. "captured Russian servicemen".
                    Okay, ok. The root is beige. Then let's look at the figures of such an organization as "Centrifuge". Is there a root beige? What does she tell us? And that there were no 2 million captured Germans and Austrians declared by you, but there were refugees ... after all, the root beige!!!
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    But "For the victory over Germany" only the participants of the Great Patriotic War, including those who served in the rear for six months, stood on watchtowers, in warehouses and so on.

                    Okay, if you yourself are too lazy to think, then I will probably be the captain of Evidence.
                    The medal “For the victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941 — 1945” was awarded to:
                    - all military personnel and civilian employees, directly involved in the ranks of the Red Army, Navy and NKVD troops on the fronts of World War II or providing victory with their work in military districts;
                    - all military personnel and civilian employees who served during the Great Patriotic War in the ranks of the active Red Army, Navy and NKVD troops, but dropped out of them due to injury, illness and injury, as well as transferred by decision of state and party organizations to other work outside the army.
                    Those. the medal "For Victory over Germany" was suddenly awarded for a victory over Germany. And here, for example, the medal "For the victory over Japan" for the victory over Japan. By the way, the last award was given out to 1,9 million pieces. But the holders of these two medals are 0,7 million people at the same time.
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    Once again, I advise you not to be rude, I just will not communicate with you.

                    Well, then what am I upset about and will be sad, and you will be counted drain.
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 27 September 2018 14: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: merlin
                      They counted 3,9 million "captured Russian servicemen."


                      only the Germans and Austrians themselves counted 2,4 captured Russian troops

                      Quote: merlin
                      Okay, if you yourself are too lazy to think, then I will probably be the captain of Evidence.
                      The medal “For the victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941 — 1945” was awarded to:
                      .
                      Those. the medal "For Victory over Germany" was suddenly awarded for a victory over Germany.


                      And what do you refute with this vast quote ??? Koshnitsa wrote so - they mobilized 35 million, and awarded 15 million survivors, including and retired from the army
                      1. marline
                        marline 27 September 2018 15: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        only the Germans and Austrians themselves counted 2,4 captured Russian troops

                        Did this one grandmother tell you? Infa 100%?
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Koshnitsa wrote so - they mobilized 35 million, and awarded 15 million survivors, including and retired from the army

                        15 million survivors awarded and fought with Germany. Not everyone who was called and who did not die and was held captive was awarded this medal - is it really that such a simple thought is so difficult for you to understand?
                    2. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 19
                      0
                      And that there were no 2 million captive Germans and Austrians claimed by you, but there were refugees ... after all, the root was beige !!! // Well, they didn’t flee from Germany to Russia, there was almost no war there. who fled, then inside Germany.
                      From the territory of AB fled units of Ruthenian activists.
                      In addition, hundreds of thousands, some Germans alone, more than 100 thousand returned to their homeland after the Brest Peace and joined the armies of their countries.
                      According to the supplement to the Regulation on the medal, approved by the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of 05.07.1945, the medal "For the victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945." the personnel of the bodies of the People’s Commissariat of Internal Affairs and the People’s Commissariat of State Security of the USSR were also awarded [
                      Vertukhaev was not forgotten.
                      For six months there, it was enough to sit in Baku or Tashkent, or who provided victory with their work in the military districts; (including civilian employees)
                      By the way, the last award was issued 1,9 million. But the cavaliers of these two medals are at the same time 0,7 million people. // Medal "For Victory Over Japan" immediately after the war awarded about 1.725.000 soldiers and officers [38]. A certain number of medals were awarded in subsequent years to persons who for some reason did not manage to get the medal earlier.

                      The total number of people awarded the medal “For the victory over Japan” is about 1.800.000 people.
                      A source about the cavaliers of two medals. Prove. It does not fit in any way. So you want to say that those who were drafted into the army after November 9, 1944 fought with the Japanese? Doesn't fit.
                      1. marline
                        marline 27 September 2018 15: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Well, from the territory of Germany they didn’t flee en masse to Russia, there was almost no war there. And who fled inside Germany.

                        According to your logic, there were 2 million refugees, because the Center counted thembeige.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        think what the word beige means, root.

                        Think, think, it will be useful to you.
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        A source about the cavaliers of two medals. Prove.

                        Search. After all, are you taught in school to search, or not already?
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        That is, you want to say that those who were drafted into the army after the November 9 of the 1944 year fought with the Japanese?

                        That is, I want to say that Japan was also at war with those who, since the 41 year, have served in the Far East and for this reason have not fought with Nazi Germany.
                    3. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 31
                      -5
                      Those. the medal "For Victory over Germany" was suddenly awarded for the victory over Germany // To everyone who was drafted into the army and served there for six months on May 9, 1945.
                      1. marline
                        marline 27 September 2018 15: 48
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        To everyone who was drafted into the army and served there for six months on May 9 of 1945 year.

                        Read carefully in bold.
          2. VVK_VDB
            VVK_VDB 27 September 2018 18: 12
            0
            hehe, 4 (four) million Germans? In March 45, 29 was drafted into the German army, that is, sixteen-year-olds were drafted. For reference, the Reich population is about 100 million.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 33
              0
              For reference, the Reich population is about 100 million. // Write a billion, as in China.
          3. sunzhenets
            sunzhenets 28 September 2018 18: 26
            +3
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            in WWII, the Red Army lost 20 million lives, killing 4 million Germans and their allies

            Are these figures put into your head by aliens, or did Solzhenitsyn personally teach you the story?
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 20: 37
              -2
              There are calculations, see above Sunzhenz.
        2. goose
          goose 27 September 2018 11: 04
          +7
          It should be added that during the period of collectivization MTO bases were created, and the USSR was in first place in the world in the number of tractors produced.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 27 September 2018 11: 11
            +2
            But for some reason 40% of the population was engaged in hard physical labor!
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 12
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              But for some reason 40% of the population was engaged in hard physical labor!

              Sore again. But didn’t you study abroad?
        3. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 17
          -7
          Dzhugashvili invented the tractor, khe-khe, the tractors were produced in the Republic of Ingushetia, at least at the 4 plants from the 1916 year, actually, but it’s hard for you to understand.
          1. your1970
            your1970 27 September 2018 20: 44
            +3
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            Dzhugashvili invented the tractor, khe-khe, the tractors were produced in the Republic of Ingushetia, at least at the 4 plants from the 1916 year, actually, but it’s hard for you to understand.

            and most importantly, their number is comparable with the number of aircraft produced aircraft ....
            10 pieces per year ...
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 02: 07
              +4
              Tuapse plant produced 10 pieces in February of the 17th year, gave the first products.
        4. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 September 2018 11: 19
          -6
          Quote: EvilLion
          What me infuriates,

          In such a condition ..... request
          Quote: EvilLion
          All of you who are talking about collectivization should be put to the plow, the beginning of the 20 of the 20th century, and see how you work on it for 10 on the day. After that, you will probably kiss each tractor wheels and caterpillars and give a prayer to 5 once a day to praise Vissarionych, who saved your grandfathers from such necessity by building them tractor plants and creating collective farms where the tractors are cost-effective.

          In All over the world tractors and fords, also thanks to the Bolsheviks appeared? lol ,
          And they saved the peasants from the RESULTS of their work, imposing them with a DUTY (as the Secretary General put it), while allowing MILLIONS of their starvation deaths (unprecedented in the world famine catastrophe 1932-33).
          "Efficient" collective farms have achieved grain yields 1913 and MILITARY 1915 g only to ...1956 g (except 1937).
          To the same 1950 reached the level of consumption of 1913 food and clothing
          Quote: EvilLion
          Because this ice desert nobody needed for nothing

          This desert is in the heads who do not know the History of Russia and how many HUNDREDS of times it fought for its "useless" deserts "
          Quote: EvilLion
          If you install in empty head brain and,

          I do not have access to your head, and it’s unpleasant No.
          Quote: EvilLion
          But Russian expansion was also directed not to Siberia,

          lol

          Quote: EvilLion
          Do not believe me, so you can even open Wiki and see the prom. production during the years of WWII.

          the rise of the heavy industry of the Russian Empire, which occurred during the First World War, until the February Revolution, was fantastic.
          In just three war years (1914-1916), the products of the chemical industry grew 2,52 times (from 337,7 to 853,5 million royal gold rubles in 1913 prices), metal processing - 3,01 times (from 628,1, 1888,4 to 1913 million rubles in 4,76 prices), engineering - 200,2 times (from 954,6 to 1913 million rubles, also in XNUMX prices). .
          ROSLO industrial production in Russia, unlike other warring countries
          Quote: EvilLion
          So the grandfathers who stood for 1000 years.

          They not only survived (without quotes), but built the BIGGEST and BEST country in the world. But the next government, without a fight, without a war, yielded the fruits of military and peaceful labor of many generations of the Russian people, establishing today's western and southern border of Russia.
        5. Gopnik
          Gopnik 27 September 2018 12: 10
          -1
          And how is it in the damned West on tractors plowed in the absence of collective farms? It is incomprehensible to the mind ... And so in the Second World War and the first years after plowing on collective farms not on tractors, but on women - equipment and men were taken into the army.
          And Russia was not inferior to "all several times" in the production of tanks, aircraft and, moreover, guns.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 27 September 2018 16: 48
            +6
            Read Stabek "The Grapes of Wrath" as farmers went bankrupt in the 30s. And how they fought for survival, turning into homeless people, moving from state to state.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 53
              -3
              Yeah, it's better to go broke in 30's than die of hunger, like in the USSR
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 27 September 2018 19: 39
                +3
                So they died of hunger in America. Read The Grapes of Wrath.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 08
                  +1
                  Hunger died in the USSR. Millions of it.
                  And in the "Grapes of Wrath" they bought cars and left.
                  1. Rastas
                    Rastas 28 September 2018 00: 21
                    +1
                    They left, and what happened to them in the end? How does the novel end? How much has arrived and where?
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 26
                      +1
                      In California, and arrived, someone drowned.
                      This film was banned in the Stalinist USSR.
                      1. Rastas
                        Rastas 28 September 2018 15: 09
                        +1
                        And where does the movie? He was removed from the show just for the fact that he disagrees radically with the idea of ​​the book and its plot. In the film at the end of a happy end, and in the book - tragedy.
                  2. naidas
                    naidas 28 September 2018 16: 57
                    +1
                    Just why there was no publication about American hunger, and there was an article for anti-American activity, it is still not known how many in the USA died of hunger.
                    Only Reagan apologized for such a small thing as the creation of concentration camps on a national basis.
              2. your1970
                your1970 27 September 2018 20: 46
                +5
                Quote: Gopnik
                Yeah, it's better to go broke in 30's than die of hunger, like in the USSR
                -Because in Ukraine, the constant embarrassment of the mouth of the posted photos- they want to show the Holodomor, but they show the American Great Depression ....
              3. naidas
                naidas 28 September 2018 16: 53
                -1
                Yeah, American labor camps are better than the Gulag, executions of the national guard are better than Soviet executions, and hunger riots in the US are better than Soviet ones.
                Sole farmers were defeated by farmers (collective farms), and farmers were defeated by agricultural holdings.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 13: 24
                  -2
                  American labor camps, where did they pay per month, as much as a collective farmer a year? Horror.
                  1. naidas
                    naidas 2 October 2018 10: 59
                    +1
                    Do not forget that the collective farmer had his own farm, and the American had $ 5 per month a month to pay off debts.
              4. sunzhenets
                sunzhenets 28 September 2018 18: 48
                +3
                Already we got these liberoid cries about the famine organized by the Bolsheviks. In the early 30s there was a lot of hunger. Have you heard about the climatic factor?
                Poland, 30s:
                Polish newspaper "New Hour": "In the Hutsul region, the number of starving farms in 1932 reached 88,6%. The property of the Polish landowners in these years reached 37% in the Stanislavsky Voivodeship, 49% in Polesie. On landowner lands, even in lean years, peasants worked for the 16th or 18th sheaf. In March, about 40 villages of Kosivsky, 12 villages of Naddvirnyansky and 10 villages of Kolomyia districts were completely starving. The newspaper notes: “People swell with hunger and die on the go. Famine is especially fierce in the villages - Perekhresnya, Old Gvizdtsy, Ostrovtsi. Typhoid fever and tuberculosis quickly spread with hunger. ” Until 1929, 16000 families of Polish military and civilian colonists were resettled from Poland to the Hutsul region. They transferred 600284 hectares of Hutsul land. ” Cor. O. Travsky. In another issue of “New Hour”, in the correspondence “Report from the Hutsul Region”, the correspondent writes: “Sorry, Hutsul brothers, I did not believe your stories about the devastated villages as“ king-hunger ”, but now I have been convinced in Kolomyia. The hungry population of Western Ukraine suffered and national oppression of Poland: if a resident of Krakow Voivodeship paid 30 zlotys per capita tax, then a resident of Western Ukraine 35 zlotys. The Carpathian forests are predatoryly cut down by the colonists.

                Romania, the same time:
                HUNGER IN ROMANIA. "Proletar." 09.04.32/1933/XNUMX, In Romania and Yugoslavia, severe flooding, causing great damage, there are human casualties. Many casualties in Bessarabia, especially in the Forty. The railway connection between Chisinau and Bucharest, as well as between Bukovina and Poland was interrupted. April XNUMX Romanian, Austrian, Hungarian and Ukrainian newspapers reported mass mortality due to hunger in boyar Romania.

                Vein. January 09.01.32, XNUMX. The Bessarabian Post newspaper, published in Russian in Chisinau, wrote: "Bessarabia has survived two hungry years in the past five years."

                Vein. 07.11.32/100/XNUMX, the "Dimineac". From Bucharest, they say: “Hunger riots in Chisinau do not stop. In November, bread prices increased by XNUMX%, however, it disappeared from the market. A crowd of several hundred people stormed the bakery; it was dispersed by the police, there are wounded. In Tekinshite leprosy patients fled from the hospital because they were not given food for a week, they went on a hungry campaign to Bucharest, and gendarmerie detachments were sent against them.

                Well, America
                Borisov uses official data from the US Statistical Office. Having considered the population of the United States, the dynamics of fertility and mortality, immigration and emigration, that is. applying generally accepted and recognized research methods, the author comes to a disappointing conclusion: during the famine of 1932–33, the United States did not count more than 7 million lives.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 20: 38
                  -3
                  In short, the sources of hunger in the West are leftist newspapers published on the money of the Comintern.
                  In the Soviet Socialist Republic 7 million people died from hunger.
                  Mortality in the USA - cheap fake.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 September 2018 06: 30
                  -3
                  Quote: Sunflower
                  Vein. 07.11.32, "Dimineatsa". Bucharest reports

                  You quote this delusional propaganda in the comm, and then STATE DOCUMENTS on this subject are interesting: reports, studies, statistics.
                  Do not you have?
                  When you find, then we'll talk.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Sunflower
                    Vein. 07.11.32, "Dimineatsa". Bucharest reports

                    You quote this delusional propaganda in the comm, and then STATE DOCUMENTS on this subject are interesting: reports, studies, statistics.
                    Do not you have?
                    When you find, then we'll talk.

                    Enough to speculate on this, do you think that the bourgeois government retains what discredits it?
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 September 2018 06: 45
                      -2
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Enough to speculate on this, do you think that the bourgeois government retains what discredits it?

                      Stop talking!
                      No documents, goodbye1
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 30 September 2018 14: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Enough to speculate on this, do you think that the bourgeois government retains what discredits it?

                        Stop talking!
                        No documents, goodbye1

                        Do not speculate! Adieu!
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 October 2018 08: 31
                      -4
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Do not speculate!

                      Do not lie!
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 October 2018 18: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do not lie!

                        What did I lie to?
      2. Rastas
        Rastas 27 September 2018 16: 44
        +4
        How is it not crowded? You're lying, but don’t lie. After February, all the national outskirts without any Bolsheviks embarked on the path of separation. And they did not care about the center. And how was it not a betrayal? And the generals Krasnov and Skoropadsky, sold to the Germans? What about Mannerheim? And the territories of Poland, the Baltic states and Ukraine, where the Germans entered, immediately announced a break with Russia.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 54
          -2
          Quote: Rastas
          How is it not crowded? You're lying, but don’t lie. After February, all the national outskirts without any Bolsheviks embarked on the path of separation. And they did not care about the center.


          What specific outskirts do not care about the center are you talking about?

          Quote: Rastas
          And the territories of Poland, the Baltic states and Ukraine, where the Germans entered, immediately announced a break with Russia.


          On the break with Bolshevik Russia
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 27 September 2018 19: 45
            +7
            All suburbs began to break even before October, especially in the territories occupied by the Germans. Outskirts did not want to live in your taxable monarchy. The Bolsheviks managed to return them on a new social contract.
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx 28 September 2018 08: 31
              -1
              Quote: Rastas
              Outskirts did not want to live in your taxable monarchy. The Bolsheviks managed to return them on a new social contract.

              Under the monarchy, the outskirts lived and were not particularly eager for freedom. Even the VKF existed calmly without the formation of "initiative groups for independence", which had any significant weight in society. And the Bolsheviks concluded the same "new social contract" only with those regions in which the Red Army was stationed. Something no one from the outside voluntarily was eager for this happiness.
            2. Gopnik
              Gopnik 28 September 2018 11: 20
              -3
              "All outskirts" wanted maximum autonomy within the Russian federal republic. Independence after February was promised only to Poland
              1. naidas
                naidas 28 September 2018 17: 11
                +2
                Well, yes, this can be seen in Finland from autonomy in March 7 (20), 1917, to independence in July 1917.
                Ukraine from autonomy in March 4 (17), 1917 to August, where it was forbidden to carry out the orders of any official appointed without coordination with the Central Council.
                Vicki directly writes about the collapse of Russia under the Provisional Government; read there not only the western suburbs, but also the eastern and southern ones.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 28 September 2018 17: 29
                  -2
                  Quote: naidas
                  Well, yes, this can be seen in Finland from autonomy in March 7 (20), 1917, to independence in July 1917.


                  Finland did not receive any independence in July 1917, but after the October Maidan, yes

                  Quote: naidas
                  Ukraine from autonomy in March 4 (17), 1917 to August, where it was forbidden to carry out the orders of any official appointed without coordination with the Central Council.


                  This is autonomy. But after October, the Bolsheviks recognized the independence of Ukraine

                  Quote: naidas
                  Vicki directly writes about the collapse of Russia under the Provisional Government


                  Well, once Vicki writes! And nevertheless, no one gained independence before the October Maidan. But then the "parade of sovereignties" began
                  1. naidas
                    naidas 28 September 2018 21: 12
                    0
                    Of course, they didn’t go to school right away, but after kindergarten (they probably waited 6-7 years, and then half a year to prepare), so did independence-autonomy, then independence.
                    Remember who from the outskirts fought for their autonomy after the fall of the Provisional Government?
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 September 2018 06: 37
                  -3
                  Quote: naidas
                  to of independence in July 1917.

                  lol. Go to school.
                  Quote: naidas
                  Ukraine from autonomy in March 4 (17), 1917 to August, where it was forbidden to carry out the orders of any official appointed without coordination with the Central Council.

                  Ukrohistorik Savchenko, admirer of Petliura and the UPR: "before the coup, power in Ukraine belonged to traitors to the Wren Government
                  Quote: naidas
                  Iki directly writes about the collapse of Russia under the Provisional Government, read

                  FACTS of declaring independence, and not Chatter-in the south, north, etc. Their-NO.
                  1. naidas
                    naidas 29 September 2018 18: 08
                    0
                    Olgovich rightly bring the facts: - Remind who from the outskirts fought for their autonomy as part of Russia after the fall of the Provisional Government?
                    And then they wrote something, and why?
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 29 September 2018 19: 28
                      -3
                      Against the Communists
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 September 2018 06: 49
                      -4
                      Quote: naidas
                      Olgovich rightly bring the facts: - Remind who from the outskirts fought for their autonomy as part of Russia after the fall of the Provisional Government?

                      belay The Bolsheviks gave them MORE than autonomy-independence. They took. What is autonomy already?
                      1. naidas
                        naidas 30 September 2018 22: 49
                        0
                        Well, where are the facts, you have no facts, only speculation, no one defended their federalization.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 October 2018 08: 44
                      -2
                      Quote: naidas
                      Well, where are the facts, you have no facts, only speculation, no one defended their federalization.

                      Facts WHAT? WHAT DO I HAVE ABOUT?
                      Once again: BEFORE THE THIEF — None of the Independence Act, NONE of the independence. Maximum talk about autonomy.
                      Read yours at least:
                      Brothers Ukrainians! You are assured that we are opposed to the self-determination of Ukraine. It's a lie. Not even for a minute are we thinking of encroaching on the rights of Ukraine.
                      Even from the point of view of the right ones only national interests of Ukraine You must support the Workers 'and Peasants' Government of Russia. Think about tomorrow. Where is the class that would be able to ensure freedom for all peoples, including Ukrainians? You saw during 8 months of revolution the policy of the cadet bourgeoisie and the policies of coalition ministries in which the Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries met. This nolitics led to the defeat of national freedoms of Ukraine... A few days before the fall of the "coalition" government, Kerensky summoned the members of the Rada to Petrograd toput them on trial.
                      и
                      we, the Council of People’s Commissars, recognize the People’s Ukrainian Republic, its right to completely separate from Russia ..
                      All that concerns the national rights and national independence of the Ukrainian people, is recognized by us, the Council of People's Commissars, immediately, without restrictions and unconditionally.

                      Against the Finnish bourgeois republic, which remains bourgeois so far, we have not taken a single step in the sense of restricting the national rights and national independence of the Finnish people and we will not take any steps restricting the national independence of any nation

                      This is from the decrees of the Soviets of power.
                      Who did not, who gave, the Bolsheviks themselves clearly recognized.
                      What's not clear?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 September 2018 06: 21
          -3
          Quote: Rastas
          0
          How is it not crowded? You're lying, but don’t lie. After February, all the national outskirts without any Bolsheviks embarked on the path of separation. And they did not care about the center


          1, I did not drink with YOU.

          2, After February, NO ONE declared independence, no one. Not getting it? The maximum is about the intention of the FEDERATION as part of Russia.
          Quote: Rastas
          And how was it not a betrayal?

          It was, of course: Brest betrayalthat gave away a third of the country to the invaders forever, fed the invaders with gold, supplies, people, eventually leading to WWII.
          Quote: Rastas
          А territory Poland, the Baltic states and Ukraine, where the Germans entered, immediately announced a break with Russia.

          For you, the occupying will of the peoples? belay Go far ....
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 27 September 2018 09: 16
      +9
      NEP is exclusively trade and speculation. Actually, there was nothing new in it, the war was over, which meant they abolished the standard military restrictions on trade, which the defender immediately took advantage of. citizens. And nothing intelligible traders can not build. In general, the heyday of shoplifting is a sign of economic decline, when production is done and everyone starts to divide the remaining resources. To build something you need a concentration of large resources in the hands of the state, or very large corporations.
    4. Alf
      Alf 27 September 2018 11: 16
      +12
      Quote: Declarant
      And yet, Stalin acted very short-sightedly, destroying the NEP.

      NEP began to satisfy the needs of the people in everyday goods, at a time when industry was not really there. The slogan of Bukharin and others like him was like this: First calico, then machine tools. Where would the USSR be in the 41st with this approach to business? It’s the same as now, shops are full of everyone, and the industry is almost destroyed. The fur coat is luxurious, but there is nothing under it.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2018 12: 54
        -3
        "Where was the USSR in 41 with such an approach to business" - Yes, all in the same place "The Germans at Moscow December 41st" - the loss of the Soviet army: 19000 tanks, 6000 aircraft, 67000 guns and mortars, 2500000 prisoners, half of the USSR industry, under the Germans.
        1. Alf
          Alf 28 September 2018 19: 54
          +1
          Quote: Vadim237
          "Where was the USSR in 41 with such an approach to business" - Yes, all in the same place "The Germans at Moscow December 41st" - the loss of the Soviet army: 19000 tanks, 6000 aircraft, 67000 guns and mortars, 2500000 prisoners, half of the USSR industry, under the Germans.

          All these losses gave time to rebuild, but where would the Wehrmacht stand if not for Stalinist industrialization? What would fight back? Beautiful clothes?
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 20: 39
            -2
            So where did all these pieces of iron go in the 41st year? Abandoned at the border reinforced the Wehrmacht.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 1 October 2018 20: 08
            0
            Yes, in the same way, half of the money spent on 50 industrial facilities, the rest at 1450 is about the effectiveness of the money spent.
    5. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 27 September 2018 16: 44
      -5
      I.V. Stalin-Dzhugashvili destroyed the beginning of construction for centuries of the dreaming state of FREE. EQUAL. and BROTHER citizens. And. Stalin, with bloody methods and coercion, created the state of the FORBIDDEN (collective farms, state, factories, registration) HUMILIATED (fear of the NKVD) and INFLUENCING on each other (number of denunciations) state ... Article on the extermination of the wealthy layer of Russian peasants, for which there is an incomprehensible half-load stuck, - like a trifle in a common cauldron of crimes against the Russian state and the Russian people ... So again, on the little things and the culprits in the heap with Abel Enukidze, one main culprit is beyond jurisdiction ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 27 September 2018 19: 02
        +3
        Quote: Vladimir 5
        I.V. Stalin-Dzhugashvili destroyed the beginning of construction for centuries of the dreaming state of FREE. EQUAL. and BROTHER citizens.

        A bloody tyrant has been gone for 70 years. The communist idea has been destroyed for 25 years. What prevents the current government from creating such a state? Sanctions? The dollar rate?
        1. Vladimir 5
          Vladimir 5 27 September 2018 19: 49
          -1
          Alf. An article about the past, and my comment about that. And about today's, so imperialism (with the top of power) and its goals, the collapse of the pseudo-communists of the USSR did not abolish. So they became winners on the ruins of the vanquished "socialist camp" and trample, but they wanted to trample Russia completely, but then the wealth of the defeated could not be obtained in the chaos (for printed papers). So they put the watching Chubais and created a thieves' "oligarchy" for the systematic robbery of Russia at the state level: natural resources go to the west, money for wealth goes to the west there. The people are ruled by a handful of comprador bourgeoisie, with families, villas and money in the west ... We are the defeated people, we are ruled by the proteges of the defeated. An example of how Germany with the Versailles government and billions of dollars in reparations ... we have replaced reparations with natural resources ...
          1. Alf
            Alf 27 September 2018 20: 24
            -1
            Quote: Vladimir 5
            0
            Alf.

            you said, that
            Quote: Vladimir 5
            .Stalin-Dzhugashvili destroyed the start of construction
            .
            That is, if there were no Stalin, then such a state would have appeared. Question-Who began to build it? Specifically, please.
            1. Vladimir 5
              Vladimir 5 28 September 2018 10: 11
              -5
              "If only" - the question on history is illegitimate. But at the amateur level, you can make some preconditions. You know something about the "shot" season of the CPSU (b), who voted for SM .. Kirov ... So imagine S. Kirov - the head of state of the USSR. Of course, the old layer of Bolshevik-revolutionaries was not soft, but repressions of such "Stalinist sweeps" were not even possible. And further, the complete abolition of the NEP policy and private property went only by the decisions of the "Stalinist" Congresses, and more by the decisions of the Central Committee of the party, or rather personally I. Stalin ... and so on.
    6. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 28 September 2018 16: 02
      0
      Quote: Declarant
      And yet, Stalin acted very short-sightedly, destroying the NEP.

      You 25 years of the NEP did not show today who is right?
      1. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 28 September 2018 20: 31
        -3
        ggg Kozma friend. - What is happening today in the Russian Federation is the looting of a war-loser and surrendered state, read my comment above ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 1 October 2018 20: 09
          0
          If everything would be as you described, then from the 90s the country would not have got out.
          1. Vladimir 5
            Vladimir 5 2 October 2018 18: 32
            -1
            Vadim 237 And where did I get out in 25 years, for such a time even after the Second World War compare 1945 and 1970. And now stamping on the spot in comparison with any period in the history of Russia. Here is the conclusion (theft) for a trillion dollars from Russia, this is the main achievement of the ruling camarilla under the screen of GDP ..
        2. hhhhhhh
          hhhhhhh 9 October 2018 20: 54
          0
          Robbery was from 1941 to 1944, and today is just the same period as 44g
    7. Megatron
      Megatron 28 September 2018 17: 53
      +2
      Right now, it would also not hurt to dispossess the privatizers of the 90s.
  2. hrulevv
    hrulevv 27 September 2018 06: 16
    +15
    Gorgeous. Only one question, I understand my great-grandfather why they blamed (there was a forge), this at that time was enough to rot in Kazakhstan. But please explain what my grandfather was guilty of before the Soviet regime, who, working on a collective farm and eating up the last horseradish without salt, sent his father a parcel in the camp? Soviet power classified this as support for the kulaks ...
    1. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 28 September 2018 16: 03
      -2
      It was not necessary to be rude to the chairman of the collective farm.
  3. hrulevv
    hrulevv 27 September 2018 06: 22
    +13
    And then they started so beautifully, about moral monsters and sexual perverts, and after them already, and about the peasants who were robbed to the skin, and it seems that they are at the same time ....
    1. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 28 September 2018 16: 04
      0
      Got a tractor tractor?
      1. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 29 September 2018 11: 03
        -3
        How many collective farmers, even the highest specialists-tractor operators, received and how they lived ... Propaganda in the USSR and repressions even weaned all thinkers and poets in Russia, the country, leaving behind the hangers-on and praise of GREAT and WISE Stalin and the CPSU (b) UNDER HIS MANAGEMENT ... It does not seem to you that you are not taught to think independently ........
        1. hhhhhhh
          hhhhhhh 9 October 2018 20: 56
          0
          "the country of thinkers and poets" - before the Bolsheviks, 80% of the population was illiterate, the Lithuanians did not even have classrooms.
  4. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 27 September 2018 06: 35
    +6
    But in fact, most of the convicts were bandits, thieves, murderers, rapists and real "enemies of the people."

    There were many among them who applauded and supported this in every possible way. The one who sings the terror and justifies the murder of innocent people himself falls under the ax, and once he is rubbing his tears with a torn sleeve, he exclaims, "Well, how can that be !?
    The author of this abomination was lucky, the wrong times ....
  5. Basil50
    Basil50 27 September 2018 07: 30
    +4
    About peasant unrest somehow kindly and smoothly. The most significant uprising on behalf of the peasants was in the Tambov region, and it began with the murder of doctors and teachers along with their families. Robberies of * former * and priests with churches and monasteries were commonplace. The bandits were destroyed, but today, when much can be * forgotten * and misinterpreted about the * peasantry *. But this was not only in the Tambov region, and as a rule the chieftains were either * former * or officers.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. tasha
    tasha 27 September 2018 08: 46
    +6
    But in fact, most of the convicts were bandits, thieves, murderers, rapists and real "enemies of the people"

    I don’t even want to comment ...

    Only Stalin managed to win the second peasant war in order to turn Russia into an industrial power, to prepare the country for a new big war with the collective West.

    And - woe to the vanquished ...
  9. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 27 September 2018 09: 10
    +11
    After the stories of my own grandmother about how whole families in the village were sent to Siberia simply on the basis of a denunciation by neighbors, I can’t completely agree with the article. There were no "unrest" or "uprisings" in the village. It's just that people had someone a horse, someone a cow, and worked from dawn to dawn with the whole family ... And how they undressed the exiled right on the street, taking away the last warm clothes from people ... I remember all these stories.
    The fact that they cleaned up all that scum that had risen up during the revolution is probably right and deserved. But how many innocent people suffered in this - you should not forget either.
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 27 September 2018 13: 43
      +4
      Trapper 7. I completely agree, minus the author. Real labor peasants were sent to camps and exiles, and those who ran with flags around the village, speaking for Soviet power, did not want to work.
      If you already wanted to organize collective farms, then you had to put the economic and working people at the head.
      1. 020500
        020500 27 September 2018 16: 34
        +2
        What kind of "labor"? The kulak in the villages was hated with fierce hatred, and it was not the Bolsheviks, but the peasants who called him a world eater long before the revolution.

        This is a real world-eater sitting tightly on the neck of the peasants, replacing the landowner and really hanging a debt yoke on the laboring peasants, leading to their ruin, starvation and laborement.

        And all these lies "innocently evicted" and listen not. If we take the criminal cases, in which they were then imprisoned, it turns out that 99,999% of these "innocents" were imprisoned for banal theft. So it is with dispossession.

        Moreover, here I personally know families who were dispossessed of their own children - for they were unbearably tortured by hopeless rural labor from sunrise to sunset (and the elders were not allowed), and so they managed to escape into the city, get an education and work in industry with an 8-hour in the afternoon, and other achievements of city life
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 27 September 2018 17: 39
          +4
          Absolutely true. MIROED. No wonder such a nickname was given to the fists.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 27 September 2018 19: 46
            +2
            My grandfather was a small fist. But he despised large ones. He said that rightly so.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 10
              0
              What is a small fist, small stature? 1 m 50 cm?
              Are all the kids angry little people?
        2. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 35
          -1
          Yes, drunks and lazy workers hated. It is a fact.
          But then these genetic waste also repented of their deeds.
        3. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 35
          0
          There were no world-eaters by the year 1929.
          Fists are often red partisans and Red Army soldiers who received benefits and rose a little.
        4. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 September 2018 06: 40
          +2
          Quote: 020500
          0
          What kind of "labor"? The fist in the villages was hated with fierce hatred

          . Lenin wrote after the Thief that the social composition of the village was LEVELED.
          Quote: 020500
          This is a real world-eater sitting tightly on the neck of the peasants, replacing the landowner and really hanging a debt yoke on the laboring peasants, leading to their ruin, starvation and laborement.

          You leave this nonsense for political information of the 1980s.
          NO LAWS of the USSR dispossessed Did NOT violate. NO!
          There were NO trials over them. They simply took and robbed and exiled, contrary to the CONSTITUTION of the USSR
          Quote: 020500
          If we take the criminal cases, in which they were then imprisoned, it turns out that 99,999% of these "innocents" were imprisoned for banal theft. So it is with dispossession.

          1. Nobody judged the dispossessed.
          2. The state (USSR) CONDEMNED and recognized as ILLEGAL repressions (decisions of the so-called triplets, etc.), and your assessments of "correctness" against this background are worth less than zero.
          1. 020500
            020500 28 September 2018 13: 06
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            No laws of the USSR dispossessed did not violate. NO!
            There were NO trials over them. They simply took and robbed and exiled, contrary to the CONSTITUTION of the USSR


            Quote: Olgovich
            1. Nobody judged the dispossessed.
            2. The state (USSR) CONDEMNED and recognized as ILLEGAL repressions (decisions of the so-called triplets, etc.), and your assessments of "correctness" against this background are worth less than zero.


            Blah blah blah...

            Text copied from lawinrussia.ru.
            When posting in social networks, a link to the source is needed.

            On January 30, 1930, the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks adopted a resolution "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization."

            Fists were divided into three categories: the first belonged to the organizers and executors of terrorist acts and anti-Soviet uprisings; they were transferred to the bodies of the GPU to ascertain the measure of their personal guilt, and members of their families were evicted to remote areas of the USSR; the second included the “stronghold of the kulaks in the countryside”; they, too, with their family members were evicted to remote areas of the USSR. The third category included all the other kulaks who, together with their families, were evicted outside the collective farm lands, but in their own area (that is, they did not fall into special settlements).

            In just 2 years of the campaign (1930-1932), about 2 million people were resettled, that is, about 400 thousand families or about 2% of the then population of the USSR.

            In fact, one word “dispossession” was used to describe two different state campaigns, in each of which a special meaning was put into the term “kulak” (this is why the kulaks were classified into categories).

            First campaign - this is a military-police operation to neutralize and punish the organizers and perpetrators of terrorist acts, that is, the "kulaks of the first category", which actually included all active village anti-Soviets, associating them with "kulaks" only because of the need to view the conflict through the prism of the official class theory ... (Since 1927, there have been regular reports from localities about the murders of communists, Soviet employees, police officers and even teachers and teachers who came from cities. Statistics reported that in 1927 901 cases of the so-called "kulak terror" were recorded, and for 7 months of 1928 - already 1049 cases).

            Second campaign - This is an operation to disband the “class of fists”, turning them into special settlers so that after “labor re-education” they and their children will return to the composition of ordinary citizens of the Soviet country. Here, fists (more precisely, “fists of the second category”) were understood to mean members of the detached from peasant society (community), individual peasant farms, systematically using the labor of hired workers - farm laborers. Of course, in reality, such prosperous peasants, using only the labor of their family members and not even very wealthy, fell into the category of those, especially if those leaders of the administration who were engaged in dispossession had personal accounts with them, but this was an expected and explainable aberration. associated with the "human factor". Officially, the campaign was directed precisely against the individual peasants who hired laborers, and the majority who fell under its rink belonged precisely to those.
            1. 020500
              020500 28 September 2018 13: 12
              +5
              And now a little about the "merits" and "hard work" of the kulaks.

              Text copied from lawinrussia.ru.
              When posting in social networks, a link to the source is needed.

              ... already in 1927 the kulaks began to disrupt the grain procurement plan. In the fall of 1927, the state managed to buy only 2 million tons of bread against 4 million in the same period last year. The price that the state offered for bread did not suit the kulaks, in whose hands the main grain reserves were concentrated. They did not need manufactured goods, the peasants bought only tobacco, kerosene, matches, soap in the shops, but they were stocked up in plenty during the NEP period.

              The fists had bread. In 1927, Russia had a good harvest. But they did not want to sell it at a low price to the state to secure the city. They preferred to hide bread, so that the next year, when the state would be forced to raise prices, sell it more expensive. If the fists sold bread, it was mainly to private merchants who resold it in the city at 50-100% more.

              The result of this was the urban food crisis of 1928-1929, about which few people remember today, since this will somewhat spoil the good story that our anti-Sovietists are repeating - about the evil Stalin, who never offended strong owners. But for the townspeople of that time (and for the rural poor, who were also affected by the kulak disruption of grain procurements), it was a shock. People have already lost the habit of queues and coupons, which seemed to be forever a thing of the past along with the civil war and post-war devastation. And suddenly, in the 11th year of Soviet power, when there is no war and no intervention, the cities again lack bread, bakery products, then other food products disappear from the shelves - meat, milk, tea, sugar, and finally food products. People take bakeries by storm (there have been cases of ransacking bakeries). People stand in queues, in which you need to occupy from the night. When food is brought in, fights break out, because the majority will not have enough anyway, the first are speculators who buy dozens of rolls, loaves, canned food, and then sell them at exorbitant prices in the market. Along with the city traders in the markets and the peasants-kulaks - they have everything, but terribly expensive.

              Indignation grows in cities, letters to bewildered citizens are pouring into the Central Committee and into the Supreme Soviet. Party opposition distribute leaflets - Trotsky was expelled from the USSR only a year ago, Trotskyist factions in party organizations are numerous and strong.

              The population of cities requires the introduction of a rationing system in order to somehow defeat the speculators and have a guaranteed piece of bread. Local cards were introduced already in 1928, and on February 21, 1929, this practice extended to the whole country. First, cards are introduced for bread, then for other products, up to potatoes. Of course, the rations are very low: in Moscow and Leningrad, workers in 1929 received 900 grams of bread every day on ration cards, their family members received 500 grams, and even less in the provinces. Meat or fish per day per worker relied on 100-200 grams, butter, milk, eggs were mainly given only to children. According to the cards, food was not given out free of charge: 1 kg of wheat bread cost 1930 kopecks in the early 20s, rye bread - 9 kopecks (but of course this was nothing compared to the prices of speculators) [15]. The owners of the cards were divided into categories, the workers who were given cards of the 1st category received the most, then the co-workers - the owners of the 2nd category, then the pensioners, the unemployed who had the 3rd category. The "dispossessed" did not receive anything at all - former nobles, priests, etc. A network of public catering was created - canteens, often closed, for employees of a certain department, where they could get lunch at a reduced price, canteens were opened in factories, in institutions: people came there with whole families.

              Bukharin and Rykov's proposal to make concessions to the kulaks, to raise purchase prices to the level that the kulaks were comfortable with, were unacceptable to Stalin. He quite rightly believed that if the state did this, it would forever become the object of kulak blackmail and would never solve the food problem (not to mention the problem of industrialization). And not solving this problem means losing power and again plunging the country into chaos. The solution consisted in the reform in agriculture, or rather in the rejection of the stake on the kulak, which turned out to be an extremely fragile ally, and in the stake on collective farms. Kulak did not cope with the role of the state-appointed land user, who was obliged to supply the city with agricultural products and therefore he must be responsible for this. And not separately, but as a class, after all, not separately, but as a whole class the kulaks received special rights from the state in 1922 and 1925, which became the guarantee of their enrichment. State legislative acts of 1922 and 1925 formed a social stratum of post-revolutionary "kulaks"; therefore, the state had every right to disband this stratum.

              Dekulakization looked in the eyes of the absolute majority of Soviet people of that time (naturally, except for the kulaks themselves and their relatives) as a completely fair and justified campaign.


              secondly, by evicting kulaks to remote areas, Stalin actually saved them and their families from extrajudicial reprisals by the village poor, which had already begun throughout Russia. The poor were extremely bitter against the former "masters of life." Much has accumulated here - and the grievances of former farm laborers, and hatred of wealth acquired not only by their own, but also by someone else's hump, and revenge for the kulak terror, and, finally, a simple understanding that, if it were not for the disruption of grain procurements by their fists, which caused famine in cities, collectivization could begin much later and be much less painful.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 13: 23
                0
                The price offered by the state for bread did not suit the kulaks, in whose hands the main stocks of bread were concentrated. // So you have to pay the normal price.
                And steal less. And then they’ll pick up the party of primates of lowbrow and nothing happens laughing
                1. 020500
                  020500 28 September 2018 15: 51
                  +1
                  That is, in your opinion, any saboteurs and wreckers who organize large-scale economic sabotage against their own country and people, for the sake of profit - is this normal? They are not to blame for anything.

                  Ahem ... But what about these? In your crisp bakery beautiful past?

                  ... The essence of the crisis was clearly presented in the memorandum of the Voronezh Exchange Committee to the meeting at the Moscow Exchange in September 1916. She noted that market relations had penetrated the village. The peasantry was able to sell less important items of production for a high price and at the same time keep bread on a rainy day due to the uncertain outcome of the war and increasing mobilization. At the same time, the urban population suffered.

                  However, at the end of 1916, the authorities, not daring to change, limited themselves to a plan for the mass requisition of grain. Free purchase of bread was replaced by surplus between manufacturers. The size of the outfit was established by the chairman of the special meeting in accordance with the crop and size of stocks, as well as the norms of consumption of the province.

                  Even in Valuisky uyezd, on which the least appropriation was imposed, and the population was in the best position, things were going badly - many peasants assured that they did not have that much grain. Where the bread was, the laws were dictated by speculation. In one village, peasants agreed to sell wheat at a price of 1,9 rubles. for a pood, but soon they secretly refused it: “It then happened that those who responded to the offer of the authorities did not have time to receive money for the delivered bread, when they heard that the firm price of wheat had risen from 1 ruble 40 kopecks to 2 rubles 50 kopecks Thus, the more patriotic peasants will receive less for bread than those who kept it in. Now there is such a belief among the peasants that the more they hold back their grain, the more the government will increase fixed prices, and the zemstvo bosses do not need believe, because they only deceive the people. "
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 16: 01
                    -4
                    There was a war, in this case everything is justified.
                    And when Asian chimpanzees are in power in the country, the struggle with the indigenous population begins.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 29 September 2018 06: 57
                    -3
                    Quote: 020500
                    That is, in your opinion any saboteurs and pestswho arrange large-scale economic sabotage against their own country and people, for the sake of profit - is this normal?

                    Who are you to insult fellow citizens saboteurs and pests? Who endowed you with what? None and nothing. To do this, there is a COURT, chop on the nose!
                2. naidas
                  naidas 28 September 2018 18: 32
                  +2
                  In France, at the end of the 18th century, food prices did not suit either, the task was solved easier than Stalin, through execution.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 September 2018 06: 52
                -3
                .
                Quote: 020500
                The fists had bread. In 1927, Russia had a good harvest. But they did not want to sell it at a low price to the state to secure the city

                You can’t just interest people work and sell, and only the mind is enough to selectGo away and do not torment either the people or the state. Especially since none he never chose this authority and entrusted nothing.

                AND IMPORTANT: stop blah blah blah and show the COURTS (according to the current Constitution of the USSR) over the peasants who decided to rob them completely and to send them to die with children in the North. They did not violate any laws of the USSR!
                You can not?
                Нет!
                Empty chatter in the firebox!
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 September 2018 06: 43
              -2
              Quote: 020500
              Blah blah blah...

              Text copied from lawinrussia.ru.
              When posting in social networks, a link to the source is needed.

              On January 30, 1930, the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks adopted a resolution "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization."

              Why is this empty CHAW?
              What did you refute? belay
  10. kalibr
    kalibr 27 September 2018 09: 31
    +9
    The funny thing is that on the GARF website there are volumes devoted to the de-peasantry in the USSR, photocopies of materials, data of extracts by year for the Central Committee, figures ... Everything is there! And the consideration of such a serious topic requires, of course, not blah blah and stories "about debauchery", but serious work with the material. Here, after all, it is not a secondary school in the countryside. But ... there is none of this. This approach is called "small topics" and it is very sad that it takes place.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 27 September 2018 09: 50
      -6
      Quote: kalibr
      The funniest thing is that the GARF website has published volumes devoted to country-leveling in the USSR, photocopies of materials, extracts from the years for the Central Committee, figures ... Everything is there!

      Do you propose to pose as an unsatisfied ostrich with a magnifying glass looking at the grains of sand between the toes? After a hundred years, you can already rise above all the specific events, the place of which undoubtedly was, and finally see the whole picture, evaluate their role in the life of our country and the life of each of us.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 27 September 2018 11: 07
        +6
        You want to say that stating that they were all rapists, the author rose high?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 27 September 2018 12: 26
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          You want to say that stating that they were all rapists, the author rose high?

          I skip such details past my ears. Behind them, forests can not be seen.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 27 September 2018 13: 13
            +3
            And the devil is always hiding in the little things!
    2. naidas
      naidas 28 September 2018 18: 45
      +2
      Yes, you can’t read your volumes. There was a task to make agriculture commodity agriculture and did. In Europe and the USA, land was also taken. (At the same time, in the USA they still drove to labor camps).
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 16: 20
        -3
        Yeah, they did, after several famines, they began to buy grain in the United States and Canada.
        1. naidas
          naidas 30 September 2018 21: 45
          +1
          And it is possible about the famines after collectivization (from 1945-1947 I do not argue after the war) in more detail.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 22: 44
            -3
            Holodomor 1932-33
            The famine of 1938 in the Volga region - 600-800 thousand
            1941-1944-famine in the war on mass mortality
            1946-47, when bread was sent to Romanians and Nazis
            1. naidas
              naidas 2 October 2018 15: 31
              0
              until 1938 found only one article - Lost Famine of the thirty-seventh
              after continuous collectivization and dispossession, it turns out that 20% of the individual farms remain (so that everyone was driven into collective farms by lies?)
              in 1936 he worked 100 workdays, that is, he worked 3 months a year on a collective farm, the rest on himself, as a result, the family went hungry (in 1936, the average output per collective farm yard was 393 workdays).
              It turns out that in 1937-39 there was a massive typhoid disease in the Volga region.
              Starving in the surveyed areas 135 families with the number of members from 3 to 11 people, from where 600-800 thousand people are unclear, although the article here gives an answer too. Mass visits with families are taking place. (Is it with the serf collective farmers?) From two villages - Russkoye Kolomasovo and Goltyapino 2 900 people for three months.
              Sole individual S. Trubochistov plowed on children schoolchildren aged 11 to 15 years. Why did I buy them a kilogram of chocolates. (Let no sweets eat bread?)
              The worst demographics of the population of Mordovia decreased from 1 people in 194 to 200 in 1937. (Is this after the epidemic, starvation and departure?) By the way, did Mordovia continue to be unlucky for demography - did the population leave, is hunger again to blame?
              Strange is the mention of unpaid workdays — failure to comply with the decisions of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks in 1937-1939 — I do not believe it.
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 13: 38
          +1
          Concerning the purchase and sale of bread, there is such curious information from 100 years ago: "... a new country of consumption has been discovered, strenuously asking for Russian bread - this is Germany, which, not so long ago, a country for exporting bread, now, thanks to the development of its industry, is becoming into the ranks of the importing countries "

          "... some states, with the development of factory production in them, began to need imported bread."
          That is, those countries in which industry is developed BUY bread. At that time, these included: Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium.
          EXPORTED bread ("fed half of Europe, Europe, half the world") Russia, Austria-Hungary, the East Indies, the United States, Canada, Argentina and Australia, and "... also the Balkan states, Turkey, Persia, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt and South American republics. (Encyclopedic Dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron).

          Was something said about industrialization in the USSR and its purchase of bread?
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 1 October 2018 13: 57
            -1
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            this is Germany, which, being not so long ago a country of export of bread, now, thanks to the development of its industry, becomes a member of the countries of import


            Through which she paid in WWI, when people there were starving to death. Although, by the way, on the eve of the WWII, Germany supplied bread to Russian Poland and Finland by squeezing out Russian bread itself.

            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Bread was exported ("fed half of Europe, Europe, half the world") Russia, Austria-Hungary, East Indies, United States


            Oh yes, the USA is definitely a backward agrarian country ...
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 15: 19
              +1
              Quote: Gopnik
              Through which I paid in WWI,

              The answer is not substantive.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 1 October 2018 16: 02
                -1
                This is not an answer, but a replica.
                Essentially the same: Germany completely exported bread to itself, even forcing RI out of its own markets. Because of what between the countries there was an economic conflict, which played a role in the beginning of the WWII. This time. The United States exporting bread was the largest industrial power in the world. These are two.
          2. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 15: 20
            -2
            this is Germany, which, being not so long ago a country of export of bread, //
            This is again a lie. Grain production in Germany for 69 million people in 1913 was 14 million tons of grain.
            And never a single Germany was an importer of bread, it was not enough for itself, before they bought from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Austria-Hungary, then from Russia. Those who have an excess of bread sell bread and buy from those who have a shortage.
            The USA and Austria_Vengria are countries where industry is developed, but Italy is not.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 1 October 2018 17: 39
              +1
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              This is again a lie.

              This is your contemporaries tell.

              Quote: Koshnitsa
              Those who have excess bread sell bread, but those who have a shortage buy

              That is, in tsarist Russia there was an excess of bread? Oh well.
  11. apro
    apro 27 September 2018 09: 41
    0
    Before writing. The author needs to define the term fist. And write from this.
    The resource base of the territory of Russia also determines the way of economic activity. It did not work to break out to higher indicators in productivity using the methods of the feudal system. We switched to a capital test it turned out even worse.
    1. 020500
      020500 27 September 2018 16: 44
      +6
      Kulak is a rural "entrepreneur", in fact the rural bourgeoisie, which led the peasantry into debt slavery, hunger and chronic farming. Oh, how the peasants loved kulaks ... Yes.

      “Fist is a reseller, maclac, especially in the grain trade; in ordinary speech means generally a person who is trying by all sorts of lies to make big profits; from this meaning of the word kulak comes the word kulakism or kulachism, that is, fishing for the kulak, overbought, profitability ”(Table Encyclopedic Dictionary. T. IV. Edition from the 4th volume of the partnership A. Granat and Co., former T-va A. Garbel and Co. - M., 1896.S. 2495)


      "... a portrait of a really living kulak by the name of Utretsky, presented in the book of a member of the Free Economic Society G.P. Sazonov" Usury-kulaks ":" He was an intelligent, but cruel man who terribly ruined the population. and bought up masses of such land: they say he had up to 50 wastelands, and with these pieces and bills he terribly confused the population.

      - It used to be, the peasants say, the people would move in with the flax circle of the yard and the street was blocked up, it was impossible to drive through - all the debtors. The winter day is short, you ought to hurry to hang it up, but he, the owner, is running around, fussing, and a kettle in his hands with vodka - he treats everyone. And as evening comes, it will get dark, he will start to hang flax, he himself is drunk, and he will sing the peasants; Well, he hangs it up, as God puts it on his soul, otherwise he will dump it into the barn without weight and say: so many poods, and there, maybe, twice "(Sazonov G.P. Usury-kulaks. Observations and research. - St. Petersburg ., 1894. S. 151) "


      ... over time, the forms and methods of robbing peasants from the kulaks have become more sophisticated. The most effective way to make money was money that the peasants urgently needed. Lack of financial resources forced the peasants to go to the fist, and he, narrowing his villagers with a ruble, shamelessly deceived him. Typical, for example, was such a way of “enriching” a fist: A villager who needed something, borrowed from a fist. He narrowed it with money, or with goods at 10-25% per annum (depending on the locality) and opened a bill of exchange in the amount of more than 100 rubles, although the peasant took the goods (money), as a rule, in the amount of not more than 20 rubles. He left his fist open, motivating such a move with the phrase: "You will come to me again." A bill of exchange was not issued to the peasant, but over time, what he took and what the peasant did not take was written into it. And often, the old bill seems to be lost, and then the fist started a new one. But at any moment all bills, both “lost” and present, which for the most part were perpetual, were presented to the peasant for payment.

      And some fists, like Khaluev in the village of Dno and his son-in-law Demin in the estate of General Field (Opochetsk district of the Pskov province), generally acted as follows. A peasant comes to them with a request, they open a bill with a certain amount on him, but they don’t give out money or goods, referring to anything. And after a while, this bill pops up for payment (see: ibid., Pp. 196-197). However, this is not all. Fist, lending money to the peasant, obliged him to bring him his harvest (flax, rye, barley, etc.) or goods (honey, hemp, lard, skin, etc.) in the fall. But he did not buy this peasant product at a market price, but at a much lower price. Moreover, when the peasant brought his crop (goods) into the yard, he was soldered here, and then, with the help of a yard, his many relatives, he was counted and measured. GP Sazonov on this occasion wrote: “Why, what they just did not come up with! And the scales are wrong, and false weights, and other fraudulent devices: for example, instead of large weights, they instruct many small ones to bring down a man; weighed not once, but in parts - in a word, not to recount all frauds ”(ibid., p. 111).

      Over time, the methods of enslaving the peasants became much more; the fists began to give loans secured by property, livestock, or replaced everything with in-kind workings. Moreover, among themselves, all the merchants and kulaks divided this or that county into sections, so as not to compete with each other; the peasants themselves began to call such business plots the “parish” (see: ibid., p. 118).
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 29
        -1
        Such fists, described in leftist literature by 1929, a long time ago were not.
        And landowners and gendarmes.
        And they dispossessed the most hardworking peasants, who for a couple of years were extolled by the authorities themselves as intensifiers.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 September 2018 06: 43
          -3
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          -1
          Such fists, described in leftist literature by 1929, a long time ago were not.

          So they are illiterate: they do not know that the first wave of dispossession was back in 1918-23, when these fists were destroyed.
          1. 020500
            020500 28 September 2018 13: 26
            +3
            There was no "first wave of dispossession". The old kulaks either washed away, or went bankrupt, or perished during the Civil War (like the rest of the bourgeoisie), and not some "waves of dispossession"
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 September 2018 07: 58
              -3
              Quote: 020500
              No "first wave of dispossession" was notabout.

              Go to school
        2. 020500
          020500 28 September 2018 13: 24
          +3
          These, as you say, "intensive workers", but in reality kulaks, who grew rich due to the labor of hired laborers, in 1928-29 organized sabotage and disrupted grain procurements, which led to severe famine in the cities.

          The same actions on their part in 1931, when the dispossession company was already in full swing (when the grain was not handed over, but purposely rotted in anticipation of an imminent dispossession) - led to an even wider famine even in rural areas.

          "... the whole class of kulaks received special rights from the state in 1922 and 1925, which became a guarantee of their enrichment. The state, by legislative acts of 1922 and 1925, formed a social stratum of post-revolutionary" kulaks ", therefore the state had every right to disband this stratum ...
          The dispossession in the eyes of the vast majority of Soviet people of that time (naturally, except for the kulaks themselves and their relatives) looked like a completely fair and justified campaign.
          By expelling kulaks to remote areas, Stalin actually saved them and their families from extrajudicial reprisals by the village poor, which had already begun throughout Russia. The poor were extremely bitter against the former "masters of life." Much has accumulated here - and the grievances of former farm laborers, and hatred of wealth acquired not only by their own, but also by someone else's hump, and revenge for the kulak terror, and, finally, a simple understanding that, if it were not for the disruption of grain procurements cities, collectivization could begin much later and be much less painful. "
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 September 2018 08: 02
            -3
            Quote: 020500
            These, as you say, "intensive workers", but in reality kulaks, who grew rich due to the labor of hired laborers, in 1928-29 organized sabotage and disrupted grain procurements, which led to severe famine in the cities.

            The power of their ignorance and inability to manage the economy-thwarted procurement, which led to severe hunger in the cities
            really fists that are rich at the expense of wage labor

            Someone became rich, someone went bankrupt, as there was enough skill and labor.
            The main thing is that they did not violate the LAWS. None! EVERYTHING was authorized by the state itself.
  12. kalibr
    kalibr 27 September 2018 09: 41
    +8
    Now that the overwhelming majority of them were "criminals". Families were evicted where children a priori could not be criminals. And exact data are available only on the number of families deported to remote regions of the country (that is, on those that were assigned to the first and second "categories" by the decree of January 30, 1930). In 1930, 115231 families were evicted, in 1931 - 265795. For two years, therefore, 381 thousand families were sent to the North, to the Urals, to Siberia and Kazakhstan. Some of the kulak families (200–250 thousand) managed to “self-dispossess”, that is, to sell or abandon their property and flee to cities or to construction sites. In 1932 and after special eviction campaigns were not carried out. However, the total number of those deported from the village at that time was at least 100 thousand. Approximately 400-450 thousand families, who were supposed to settle in separate settlements within the territories and regions of their former residence (the third "category"), after the confiscation of property and various ordeals, for the most part, also left the village for construction sites and in cities. The total is about 1 million - 1 million 100 thousand farms liquidated in the course of dispossession. Farms! But how many people suffered cannot be accurately counted!
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 27 September 2018 10: 12
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      In total, it turns out about 1 million - 1 million 100 thousand farms liquidated during dispossession.

      Tell me, how much would remain of us if all of Europe, with all its industrial power, attacked an agrarian country? How do you imagine who would win: a peasant with a pitchfork tank or a peasant tank?

      The First World War did not end with the Brest Peace, it was postponed until the second, and Stalin perfectly understood this. Were there any excesses on the ground? Yes they were. On March 2, 1930, the newspaper Pravda published an article by Stalin, "Dizzy with Success," about excesses in the localities that were made during collectivization.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 06
        -2
        It would be, as in 1914, attacked, stuck on two fronts and collapsed.
        If not for the traitors in the Kremlin, and Russia would have won. And there would be no continuation.
        And who called Russia a backward agrarian country.
        Soviet people who could not build a single battleship? That's it ...
        1. Alf
          Alf 27 September 2018 11: 22
          +3
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          Soviet people who could not build a single battleship? That's it ...

          The Soviet Union, Soviet Ukraine were laid, the war prevented.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 36
            +2
            And at the same time, they launched into the spray all the design bureau?
            The low level of engineering and technical personnel, this thing is very serious.
        2. marline
          marline 27 September 2018 12: 09
          +1
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          Soviet people who could not build a single battleship?

          Are you alluding to those seven vessels that you are ashamed to mention as battleships in decent society?
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 37
            -1
            Of the 26 EDB and LR in the RIF, 24 were of domestic construction. The agrarian country will be assembled alive and well, the Trans-Siberian Mountains to build and battleships, on long winter evenings.
            In the USSR, zero-zero.
            Because industrialization, collectivization and the cultural revolution.
            1. marline
              marline 27 September 2018 15: 58
              +1
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              26 EDB

              You already decide whether you are about battleships, or about armadillos.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 21: 50
                -2
                In the USSR built at least one battleship? That's it ...
                1. marline
                  marline 28 September 2018 08: 23
                  +3
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  In the USSR built at least one battleship?

                  Not even going to. And who needed them after Tsushima?
                  You would also compare the number of carts built in the Republic of Ingushetia and the Russian Federation, the result would be the same.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 09: 52
                    +1
                    The grapes are green. The Finnish "Väinemäinen" was used under the name "Vyborg" right up to 1960.
                    Yes, and a lot of carts were built in the USSR. They are still building it.
                    1. marline
                      marline 28 September 2018 10: 22
                      +2
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      The grapes are green. The Finnish "Väinemäinen" was used under the name "Vyborg" right up to 1960.

                      Used, and did not intend to build.
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Yes, and a lot of carts were built in the USSR. They are still building it.

                      Read carefully my post.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 10: 59
                        -2
                        Well, in order to build even an armadillo you need personnel and skills.
                        And with this in the USSR it was not very.
                        Old ones were exterminated and expelled from the country.
                        But the new ones went wrong.
                      2. marline
                        marline 28 September 2018 11: 15
                        +2
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        Well, in order to build even an armadillo you need personnel and skills.
                        And with this in the USSR it was not very.

                        Armored cruiser "Svetlana", the place of construction - Le Havre, France;
                        Armored cruiser "Admiral Kornilov" - Saint-Nazaire, France;
                        Armored Cruiser "Askold" - Kiel, Germany;
                        Armored cruiser "Boyar" - Copenhagen, Denmark;
                        The armored cruiser Bayan - Toulon, France;
                        Armored cruiser "Admiral Makarov", built at the shipyard "Forge & Chantier", France;
                        The armored cruiser Rurik was built at the Vickers shipyard in Barrow-in-Furness, England;
                        Battleship Retvizan, built by William Cram & Sans, Philadelphia, USA;
                        Armadillo "Cesarevich" - built in La Seyne-sur-Mer in France.

                        The “Whale” destroyers series, the construction site was the shipyard of Friedrich Schiechau, Elbing, Germany;
                        The series "Trout" ("Attentive"), were built at the factory of A. Norman in France;
                        Series "Lieutenant Burakov" - "Forge & Chantier" and the Norman plant, France;
                        A series of destroyers "Mechanical Engineer Zverev" - Shipyard Schihau, Germany.

                        The destroyers of the Horseman and Falcon series were built in Germany and, accordingly, in the UK; destroyer Pernov - A. Norman plant, France; “Batum” - Yarrow Shipyard in Glasgow, UK; "Adler" - shipyard Schihau, Germany.

                        Indeed, in order to build a good ship you need personnel and skills. In RI - it was well understood ...
                        Understood in the USSR, but the cadre preferred their own.
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 September 2018 14: 37
          -3
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          And who called Russia a backward agrarian country.
          Soviet people who could not build a single battleship? That's it ..

          Yeah .. "Backward" country built Trnassib, the second most important event in the world after the discovery of America. Built by OWN designers, surveyors, engineers, builders, MATERIALS.

          The world's longest ALEXEEV bridge, built in 1916, during the WAR. The USSR was never able to build longer in all 70 years.

          And if you recall the FIRST in the world telecast, the world's first diesel submarine, the world's first motor ship (70% of all motor ships in the world are Russian), a diesel-electric ship, etc., made in "backward" Russia, it is generally not clear what
          comrade Russophobes say
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 September 2018 11: 37
        -1
        Quote: Boris55
        Tell me, how much would remain of us if all of Europe, with all its industrial power, attacked an agrarian country? How do you imagine who would win: a peasant with a pitchfork tank or a peasant tank?

        The growth rate of Russian production before the thief led to 1940 r to the same results as in the USSR, if there hadn’t been a thief, Gr. war and de-instrumentalization caused by them.
        Only people would be TENS of millions more
        Quote: Boris55
        World War I did not end with the Brest Peace, it was delayed until the second

        Yes, it ended with the Versailles peace, on which, due to Brest betrayal, there was no Russia.
        And if there were Russia, there would have been no WWII, Russia would not have allowed Germany to arm itself, and France alone could not afford it ...
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 27 September 2018 11: 59
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          if there were no thief, Gr. war and deinstrualization

          If there had not been the February bourgeois revolution, perhaps there would have been no great October socialist revolution. If the chairman of the Duma Tsiriteli had not shouted that "Russia no longer exists," then there would have been no famous statement by Lenin: "There is such a party."

          The rotten tsarist elite was completely able to overthrow the tsar’s power, but because of its stupidity, they did not have the brains to rule Russia.

          The entire "civilized" world took up arms against the world's first state of workers and peasants, and we withstood, thanks to dispossession, which did not go well, but ultimately achieved its goal. "Everything happens in the best way, according to morality all participants in the process "
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 04
            -1
            They survived, in 1991, khe-khe. Remember, remember.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 27 September 2018 12: 12
              +2
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              They survived, in 1991 year, khe-khe.

              Soviet power ended in 1953.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 43
                -2
                Why's that? What happened in 1953.?
                Is he dead? So is he the one to save power? laughing
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 27 September 2018 13: 19
                  +2
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  What happened in the 1953 year.?

                  The 1953 year is the beginning of the seizure of power by the Trotskyists from the Soviets of workers and peasants to the power of party nomenclature. By the beginning of perestroika, the CPSU led the country completely. The party nomenclature continues to lead the country to this day.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 29
                    -1
                    Sorry, but who was there before 1953, was a worker in the party leadership and who is the peasant?
                    Is it Kaganovich or Dzhugashvili? And until 1953 there was anarchy in the country and recklessly led the field in the village councils! Boo-go-ha!
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 27 September 2018 14: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Sorry, but who was there before the 1953 year was in the leadership

                      Until 1953, the party leadership included communists (Bolsheviks, Trotskyists). In the country's leadership - Tips (professionals). After 1953, power completely passed to the party nomenclature. The Soviets were removed from ruling the country. The leading and guiding role of the party was enshrined in the Brezhnev Constitution. Any party always puts the interests of its party above the interests of its country. It was these party interests that led us to 90 ...
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 46
                        -3
                        The country's leadership - Tips (professionals) .// Are you serious? Like, some people ruled the country, but others ruled? The leader of the USSR is a quiet alcoholic, grandfather Kalinin.
                        Grandpa Kalinin!
                        *** me ******!
                        Let go free
                        I will not steal! fellow
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 September 2018 14: 45
            -2
            Quote: Boris55
            The entire "civilized" world took up arms against the world's first state of workers and peasants, and we held out thanks to dispossession,

            Only due to dispossession, the country lost several ARMIES of wonderful fighters, and the losses from the famine of 1933 are SEVERAL TIMES more than the losses in the World War 14.
          3. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 27 September 2018 17: 13
            -2
            Quote: Boris55
            The entire "civilized" world took up arms against the world's first state of workers and peasants, and we held out,

            How? And the United States and Great Britain were also against us? And Latin America?
            thanks to dispossession, which took place not in the best way, but in the end, which reached its goal.

            The goal was certainly achieved - they did not reach the level of agricultural production in 1913 until 1941. And the "mobresource" was significantly lost. This goal can be attributed to the Vlasovites and the Cossacks, who went to fight against the USSR precisely "in memory" of the special attitude towards their parents and relatives. At the same time, do not think that I am justifying them - a traitor in any case remains a traitor. But if it weren't for such wild methods of "fighting fists", there might not have been those thousands and thousands of traitors ...
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 37
              0
              In WWI, the most persistent parts are Cossack, the highest percentage of bloody losses 94% among Cossacks.
              In WWI there were no traitors of Russian origin, even Myasoedov has not been proven.
              There were no parts from Russian collaborators, only national minorities.
              Well, compare with the Second World War.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 28 September 2018 00: 55
                +2
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                Well, compare with the Second World War.

                Why remind the Cossacks of Panwitz?

                If we talk about the Cossack estate, then the events described in "Quiet Don" are very close to reality.
                Here you can safely talk about the conflict between the prosperous Cossacks and the so-called a blow, which served, if not the occasion, then the basis of the uprising.
                Is it worth recalling that both sides of the Cossack conflict were armed with at least a rifleman, had horses on the farm. And not one at a time.
                Thus, the social conflict in the Cossacks in 1918-1920's reached the Second World War.

                And what is the peasantry worse in this regard?
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 01: 00
                  -1
                  There was no social conflict there, especially in the Don.
                  82% for white, 18% for red.
                  And there and there were both poor and middle and rich, in a Don way, of course.
                  The Kuban and Terts have even less for the Reds.
                  The Urals only 3% were for Soviet power.
                  The same is true throughout the country.
                  In White 85% of leaders did not have their real estate.
                  For this, the Reds have the top children of wealthy landowners-Ulyanov, Bronstein, Tukhachevsky.
                  Social conflict invented.
                  In the Veshensky uprising, the cause is the genocide of the Cossack subethnos under the directive of Yeshua-Solomon Sverdlov.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 28 September 2018 01: 09
                    +2
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    In White 85% of leaders did not have their real estate.

                    What did these leaders fight for?
                    For a classless society? Is social equality?
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    There was no social conflict there, especially in the Don.
                    82% for white, 18% for red.
                    And there and there were both poor and middle and rich, in a Don way, of course.
                    The Kuban and Terts have even less for the Reds.
                    The Urals only 3% were for Soviet power.

                    The numbers, of course, are amazing. Who thought?
                    But certainly they were not the Cossacks to which you referred above.
                    And the poor leaders are essentially fighting on the side of Germany - Krasnov, Shkuro.
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 01: 25
                      -1
                      What did these leaders fight for?
                      For Great and Eternal Russia.
                      The numbers, of course, are amazing. Who thought?
                      According to Don Venkov, Kuban Berlizov, Terek Klychnikov, in the Urals, a famous figure from the Soviet ten-volume.
                      And the poor leaders, in fact, are fighting on the side of Germany - Krasnov, Shkuro. // But they did not fight and did not even serve in the army. They were engaged in refugees, and only.
                      For a classless society? Is social equality?
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 28 September 2018 09: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        What did these leaders fight for?
                        For Great and Eternal Russia.

                        Hehe ....

                        The Bolsheviks fought for the same thing .... wassat
                        For one and indivisible ...

                        The Cossacks as a class did not disappear after the end of the Civil War.
                        But those who "helped refugees" in Germany were extradited by the Americans and hanged on the same gallows with Vlasov, who also fought for "his" Russia.
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 01: 17
                    +1
                    Reds on the Don
                    Mironov - a military foreman, a hereditary nobleman, received an allotment on a farm
                    Podtalkov-under-guard guard, 6th life-guard battery from a wealthy family.
                    Krivoshlykov-warrant officer, competent, agronomist before the war.
                    All 78 Red Cossacks executed with them, there was not a single person from the bunker.
                    Such are the realities.
              2. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 28 September 2018 08: 18
                -1
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                In WWI, the most persistent parts are Cossack, the highest percentage of bloody losses 94% among Cossacks.
                In WWI there were no traitors of Russian origin, even Myasoedov has not been proven.
                There were no parts from Russian collaborators, only national minorities.
                Well, compare with the Second World War.

                What is your comment for? Are you sure you read what I wrote correctly?
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 11: 00
                  +1
                  This is not for you, Dmitry
        2. marline
          marline 27 September 2018 13: 07
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          The growth rate of Russian production before the thief led to 1940 r to the same results as in the USSR, if there hadn’t been a thief, Gr. war and de-instrumentalization caused by them.

          This is despite the fact that RI is all in debt like silk? .. oh these fairy tales, oh these storytellers ...
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 30
            -3
            Well, money was needed for industrialization, if you didn’t borrow it, you would have to rip off your own population, bringing it to cannibalism and corpse-eating, as in the USSR.
            1. marline
              marline 27 September 2018 16: 12
              +1
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              Well, money was needed for industrialization, if you didn’t borrow it, you would have to rip off your own population, bringing it to cannibalism and corpse-eating, as in the USSR.

              I would even like to ask, where is the money that went to industrialization? Where is industrialization?
              In the total industrial production of the five leading powers, the share of RI in the 1913 year was about 4 - 5%. According to industrial indicators per capita, Russia in 1913 was a neighbor of Spain, the most backward country in Europe.
              Where is industrialization?
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 39
                -1
                Quote: merlin
                In the total industrial production of the five leading powers, the share of RI in the 1913 year was about 4 - 5%. According to industrial indicators per capita, Russia in 1913 was a neighbor of Spain, the most backward country in Europe.
                Where is industrialization?


                The share of Russia in world industrial production in 1913 was 5,3%. At the same time, during the years of WWI, industrial production in Russia grew, in contrast to other participants. The share of the USSR in 1937 (according to Soviet data) is "almost 10%". At the same time, industrial production in the USSR almost remained in place after 1937, while in Germany, Japan and the United States it increased sharply.
                Per capita in the USSR, everything was also sour, as Stalin did not try to thin out the population by hunger and repression, it still grew stronger than anyone else in Europe. The USSR overtook the United States and Japan in terms of population, not to mention European countries.
                1. marline
                  marline 27 September 2018 17: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  The share of the USSR in 1937 (according to Soviet data) is "almost 10%". At the same time, industrial production in the USSR almost remained in place after 1937, while in Germany, Japan and the United States it increased sharply.

                  No need to lie, in 1938 year already about 14% of world production. This is more than in Germany (11,6%), England (9,3%) and France (5,7%). What is there at RI?
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  At the same time, in the years of WWI industrial production in Russia grew, unlike other participants.

                  The gross national product of the USSR in 1942 of the year was 1,5 times more than in 1941.
                  During the war years, wholesale prices declined even for weapons, was there something similar in the Republic of Ingushetia?
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  Russia's share in world industrial production in 1913, 5,3%.

                  Somewhere so I wrote, but okay, so be it. Here you are saying that at the beginning of 20. RI developed quite rapidly and there was even industrialization, but meanwhile dry numbers tell us that in 1850 GNP of Russia was 2 / 5 of German GNP, and in 1913 it fell to one third. Obviously, the impoverished agrarian country was increasingly lagging behind Europe.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: merlin

                    No need to lie, in 1938 year already about 14% of world production. This is more than in Germany (11,6%), England (9,3%) and France (5,7%). What is there at RI?


                    I find other figures "In 1940, the USSR produced about 10% of the world industrial production. Germany - only 6%", i.e. OK. ten%.
                    And 1938 is the year after the economic crisis of 1937, when in the same England industrial capacities are unloaded, and the USSR rivets hordes of tanks and aircraft. Then, the closer to the beginning of WW2, not to mention the war itself, a sharp increase in production in Germany and the United States. In the USA, it’s just an avalanche.
                    The Republic of Ingushetia is doing well - ahead of England, Germany and France, the growth of the economy before the war and the growth of overproduction during the WWII 121,5% in 1916 to 1913 (unlike other participants who have a fall)


                    Quote: merlin

                    The gross national product of the USSR in 1942 of the year was 1,5 times more than in 1941.
                    During the war years, wholesale prices declined even for weapons, was there something similar in the Republic of Ingushetia?


                    Of course. We also forgot to note that 1942 is a year of gigantic starvation mortality in the rear and a total deficit of consumer goods. What was not in RI.


                    Quote: merlin

                    Somewhere so I wrote, but okay, so be it. Here you are saying that at the beginning of 20. RI developed quite rapidly and there was even industrialization, but meanwhile dry numbers tell us that in 1850 GNP of Russia was 2 / 5 of German GNP, and in 1913 it fell to one third. Obviously, the impoverished agrarian country was increasingly lagging behind Europe.


                    I will tell you the truth - in 1850 a country like Germany did not exist.
                    1. marline
                      marline 28 September 2018 10: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      I find other figures "In 1940, the USSR produced about 10% of the world industrial production. Germany - only 6%", i.e. OK. ten%.

                      Please:

                      Quote: Gopnik
                      And 1938 is the year after the economic crisis of 1937,

                      1938 is the last peace. It seems logical to me to focus on him.
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      The Republic of Ingushetia is doing well - ahead of England, Germany and France, the growth of the economy before the war and the growth of overproduction during the WWII 121,5% in 1916 to 1913 (unlike other participants who have a fall)

                      Yes, yes, yes ... The rapid growth of quotations, speculation, gambling and all that jazz ...
                      Meanwhile, if you still take off your pink glasses and look with an open mind, it will turn out that, for example, iron ore production decreased by 28%, copper by 32%. The percentage of rail transportation fell to 71% - this is due to a decrease in steam locomotives by 18%, and wagons by 19,5%. And of course, agriculture is grain harvesting in 1916. decreased by 20% (relative to the average annual level of 1909-1913). Given that the supply of the army increased 2,4 times - urban hunger in 1917 was provided.
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Of course. We also forgot to note that 1942 is a year of gigantic starvation mortality in the rear and a total deficit of consumer goods. What was not in RI.

                      You have mixed something up: not 1942, but 1943, and not in the USSR, but in Bengal.
                      However, if you have any kind of documentary starvation in 1942 in the USSR, provide.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 28 September 2018 14: 23
                        0
                        Quote: merlin
                        Please:


                        Clear. I cited Soviet data, but according to the data of Western economist P. Bayrokh, you have. According to him, the share of industrial production in Russia in 1913 amounted to 8,2%. And, let me remind you, during the years of WWII industrial production in Russia grew, while in Germany, France and England it fell.

                        Quote: merlin
                        1938 is the last peace. It seems logical to me to focus on him.


                        Logically, yes. In this peaceful year, the USSR riveted thousands of tanks, in contrast to the same England, in which 20% of the industrial capacities were unloaded. Then, in 1941, these thousands of tanks were thrown at the border and ganged out tanks and planes from the same England. In 1938, the United States had almost no armored forces, during the war years they riveted, without any tension, almost from scratch so many tanks that they supplied them to their allies, including THE USSR. Not to mention airplanes and ships.

                        Quote: merlin
                        Meanwhile, if you still take off your pink glasses and look with an open mind, it turns out that, for example, iron ore production decreased by 28%, copper by 32%.


                        So what? The same, and even cooler, happened in all the belligerent countries. "And if you compare with Russia, the fall was sometimes much more serious. The disastrous situation in France is especially striking. For example, steel production there fell from 4,687 million tons in 1913 to 1,111 million tons in 1915." Not to mention the USSR in the Second World War, to which the allies supplied grain, along with canned food.


                        Quote: merlin
                        You have mixed something up: not 1942, but 1943, and not in the USSR, but in Bengal.
                        However, if you have any kind of documentary starvation in 1942 in the USSR, provide.


                        Well, you need to know the site on which you communicate. Here's an article about mortality in the rear https://topwar.ru/32834-demograficheskie-tayny-ushedshey-voyny.html "In the rear territories, the super-mortality rate of the civilian population (women, children, the elderly, excluding men) was 3,34 million people ".
                        Here is an article for you about mortality in only one of the regions, in Yakutia https://moluch.ru/archive/97/21955/ "Over the four war years, starting from 1941, natural increase was absorbed entirely by large mortality rates. 1941, the natural decline in the population as a whole in the republic amounted to 961 people; in 1942 - 8235 people; in 1943 - 9575 people; in 1944 - 103 people. "
                        More than 1942 thousand people died in the Gulag in 350 - 25% of the average monthly number! These are the largest figures in the history of the Gulag.
                      2. marline
                        marline 28 September 2018 15: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        I cited Soviet data, but according to the data of Western economist P. Bayrokh, you have.

                        All the less reason to suspect him of bias.
                        I must note that this particular table was taken from Paul Kennedy.
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Logically, yes. In this peaceful year, the USSR riveted thousands of tanks, in contrast to the same England, in which 20% of industrial capacities were unloaded.

                        What prevented England from riveting tanks?
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Then, in 1941, these thousands of tanks were thrown at the border and ganged out tanks and planes from the same England.

                        And who and what did England snag?
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        The United States had almost no armored forces in the 1938; during the war years, they riveted, without any tension, almost from scratch so many tanks that they supplied them to their allies, including USSR. Not to mention airplanes and ships.

                        Well done.
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        So what?

                        And that. At whose expense did heavy industry grow?
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Well, you need to know the site on which you communicate. Here's an article about mortality in the rear https://topwar.ru/32834-demograficheskie-tayny-ushedshey-voyny.html "In the rear territories, the super-mortality rate of the civilian population (women, children, the elderly, excluding men) was 3,34 million people ".

                        Wow! An article by a priest and a publicist is a very serious argument in a dispute !!!
                        And yet an article on mortality, not hunger.
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Here is an article on mortality in only one of the areas in Yakutia https://moluch.ru/archive/97/21955/

                        About mortality.
                        No one argues that it was hard, and no one argues about malnutrition either, but there was no mass hunger.
                        In fact, it is very interesting to poke a finger in the USSR and bashfully ignore RI. Or maybe give statistics statistics on mortality with 1890g. according to 1910, when there was no war and hunger, it seems, too ...
                        However, the latter is clearly not the level of a lover of crunch of custodian buns.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 29 September 2018 09: 10
                        -2
                        Quote: merlin
                        About mortality.
                        No one argues that it was hard, and no one argues about malnutrition either, but there was no mass hunger.

                        What did people die from, if, first of all, not from hunger?
                        The famine was terrible, and if it had not been for the supply of food from the USA, etc., a tragedy of the level of 1933 would have been inevitable.

                        There was not only hunger, but also cannibalism, and in the rear: (from the archives of the Chelyabinsk region):

                        "SPECIAL MESSAGE OF THE NKVD DEPARTMENT FOR THE SVERDLOVSK REGION IN THE NKVD OF THE USSR February 25, 1943, No. 15335, Sverdlovsk

                        February 19, p. Mr. P., daughter born in 1932, disappeared from Mr. P., who lives in the working village of V.-Pyshma.

                        As a result of the search conducted at S., the clothes of P. Anna and her body were found, cut into pieces, part of which was salted, and part was hidden near the house under snow.

                        . Anna S. Meat ate herself, fed her children, and also sold in the market for 130 rubles per piece, and a quarter of a liter of fat sold in the market for 200 rubles.


                        10 March 1943 cityNumber 829, city of Tavda

                        I’m informing you that on March 2, 1943, on a business trip No. 3 of the Dubrovinsky camp point of the 2nd division of the Vostokurallag of the NKVD, in the laundry room of the bathhouse under the floor was found a corpse of a disinfector - a prisoner J., born in 1915, convicted by a military tribunal under Art. 58 p. 2 of the Criminal Code for 10 years ITL.


                        Arrested in this case, the bathhouse attendant of the military unit Ch., Born in 1911, a native of der. Petrovo Kardymovskogo district of the Smolensk region, Russian, b / des., Comes from peasants, did not serve in the Red Army, and during interrogation he admitted that he killed J. with a purpose eating slaughtered meat"


                        Read how and how many children and adults died of starvation in Bashkiria, Udmurtia, the Urals (all from the archives) http://www.archive.gov.tatarstan.ru/magazine/go/anonymous/main/?path=mg:/numbers/2014_1_2/03/03/
                        It's all in the rear.
                        And here is another fact about children (42-43 g):

                        Bodies of the NKVD of the Southern Urals managed to detain 149 street and street children. Homelessness and neglect in wartime conditions were objective: military and labor mobilization, employment of parents and relatives at work, reduction of school hours to 2,5-3 hours a day, deprivation of custody of children due to arrests, death of adults from exhaustion and excessive loads. Systematic raids were carried out to remove children from the streets (holidays, Sunday, etc.); in January 1942 when the problem acquired mass character, organized children's reception centers.

                        Scientific library of dissertations and abstracts
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 21: 53
                    -2
                    The earliest figures tell us that in 1850 the GNP of Russia was 2/5 of the GNP of Germany, and in 1913 fell to a third. // Beautiful. Only the state of Germany in 1850 did not exist on the world map and in statistics. Careful, citizen.
                    1. marline
                      marline 28 September 2018 08: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Only the state of Germany in the 1850 year did not exist on the world map and in statistics

                      You can compare with England, the result will be the same wink
                      Oh yes, you haven’t been taught this at school yet ... byad ....
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 10: 09
                        -2
                        And why should I compare with England, when you cite Germany as non-existent at that time.
                        Fucked, run over first? No, that will not do.
                        We are not in a hut for youngsters.
                      2. marline
                        marline 28 September 2018 10: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        And why should I compare with England, when you cite Germany as non-existent at that time.

                        Just do not know how. What class, boy?
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        We are not in a hut for youngsters.

                        At the expense of you there is confidence in infancy.
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 27 September 2018 13: 40
            -4
            Russia was in debt no more than France or England. And how France and England were supposed to get reparations
            1. marline
              marline 27 September 2018 16: 19
              +1
              Quote: Gopnik
              Russia was in debt no more than France or England. And how France and England were supposed to get reparations

              Yes, yes, yes ... France and England are such faithful allies ... they would certainly share the money, but after they would have pulled the country apart.
              And yes, France and England borrowed from the USA. And Russia, first with France and England, and then with its own population. But in general, are you sure that by that time Germany, impoverished, could be able to work out all these debts in a hundred years on reparations?
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 43
                -3
                Quote: merlin
                Yes, yes, yes ... France and England are such faithful allies ... they would certainly share the money, but after they would have pulled the country apart.


                Don't fantasize

                Quote: merlin
                But in general, are you sure that by that time Germany, impoverished, could be able to work out all these debts in a hundred years on reparations?


                Why guess? Germany paid reparations. True, others took the share of Russia, since the Bolsheviks themselves refused
                1. marline
                  marline 27 September 2018 17: 19
                  +3
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  Why guess? Germany paid reparations.

                  Indeed, why:
                  Germany completed the payment of reparations following the results of the First World War. The last tranche of 70 million euros was paid 3 October 2010g., On the day of the 20 anniversary of the reunification of Germany, reports BBC News
                  According to Lenta.ru
                  I almost guessed, and yes, back in 20, the reparations were halved.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 35
                    -1
                    Well i.e. Do you agree that Germany paid the reparation and eventually paid? Fine.
                    1. marline
                      marline 28 September 2018 11: 42
                      +2
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Well i.e. Do you agree that Germany paid the reparation and eventually paid?

                      And I wrote somewhere that she did not pay reparations? Or that did not pay them?
                      Okay, I will explain it especially for you, since you are not "catching up". The essence of my post was that even if Russia were recognized as the victorious country in WWI, and received reparations, they would still not be enough to pay off the state debt.
              2. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 23: 59
                -2
                She worked. Recently paid by the way.
                1. marline
                  marline 28 September 2018 11: 44
                  +2
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  She worked. Recently paid by the way.

                  Do you have attention deficit disorder? Go to the school psychologist, he will help.
    2. 020500
      020500 27 September 2018 16: 37
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      Some of the kulak families (200–250 thousand) managed to “self-dissolve”, that is, to sell or abandon their property and flee to cities or construction sites.


      In fact, most of this was done quite voluntarily. Life in the city was then much easier than in the countryside. Young people didn’t want to be hunchbacked from morning till night all year round - education, normal work, culture, etc. were in the city
    3. 020500
      020500 28 September 2018 13: 27
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      children cannot be criminals a priori


      Why did it happen?
    4. naidas
      naidas 28 September 2018 18: 48
      +1
      Do you offer to evict parents and leave their children?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 September 2018 09: 21
        -3
        Quote: naidas
        Do you offer to evict parents and leave their children?

        Million children WHAT settled in huts from poles and worked on logging, etc.?
        Where are the court decisions on the deprivation of children their rights (see the Constitution of the USSR), property and forcing them to work on felling, eh?
        "Socially dangerous children"Who invented this?
        1. naidas
          naidas 29 September 2018 17: 51
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          "Socially dangerous children" - who invented it?

          Someone who is Chukovsky in a letter to Stalin.
          ... I would not dare to write to you about this case, if it were single. But, unfortunately, I know a large number of schools where there are socially dangerous children, which must be removed from there so as not to destroy the rest ...

          Unlike you, the Olgovichs, I would not want to meet with a bunch of such kids, a place for such rapists and thieves in the colonies, and not at lectures on the Constitution.

          Chukovsky- "The regime in these colonies should be much stricter than in vocational schools. The main occupation of the colonies is agricultural labor."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 September 2018 06: 53
            -2
            Quote: naidas
            Unlike you, the Olgovichs, I would not want to meet with a bunch of such kids, a place for such rapists and thieves in the colonies, and not at lectures on the Constitution.

            First, find out what was invested in this concept (SOD) by the NKVD.
    5. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 22
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Now that the overwhelming majority of them were "criminals". Families were evicted where children a priori could not be criminals.

      Eviction is not a prison; you offer parents to evict. and leave the children alone?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 September 2018 06: 54
        -2
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Eviction is not a prison; you offer parents to evict. and leave the children alone?

        I suggest DO NOT REFERENCE children!
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 30 September 2018 14: 25
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          I suggest DO NOT REFERENCE children!

          Leave alone? On a collective farm? Without parents? Yes, you’re my maniac ....
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 1 October 2018 09: 04
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Leave alone? On a collective farm? Without parents?

            Leave FREEDOM - with your RELATIVES - mother, grandfather, grandmother, with your RIGHTS to housing, property and to LIFE. Instead of turning them into something that "sticks into dirty, rotting, lump "(from letter Commissar of the Interior RSFSR V.N. Tolmachev about them)

            Show solutions Courts, Laws, Articles of the Constitution depriving a million exiled children of these rights. And according to their direct relatives, too

            According to Zemskov’s calculation, he died 600 000 from exiled peasants.
            80%
            dead-CHILDREN (Siblag statistics)! Are you human
            .
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 1 October 2018 18: 25
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Leave AT FREEDOM — with your RELATIVES — mother, grandfather, grandmother, with your RIGHTS on housing, property and LIFE.

              The exile is not a prison, moreover, they were sent mainly to neighboring regions, to the "terrible" Siberia, they only expelled those who deserved by their actions. But Zemsky's "figures" confirm how you love with documents, only real, not fake.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 18: 31
                +2
                With such mortality, reference is generally genocide.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 2 October 2018 19: 37
                  0
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  +2
                  With such mortality, reference is generally genocide.

                  And the killing of collective farm activists, Selkors, communists, Komsomol members, ordinary collective farmers with their families, the burning of barns with grain, the destruction of livestock, etc. what is it called?
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 October 2018 08: 18
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Link is not a prison.

                I don't care about YOUR "ratings". The state assessed them as iniquity, i.e. crime against citizens of the country.
                This is also clear to all NORMAL people: to take away property depriving ALL rights, incl. you can live on only by court order. Do you agree that ALL should be taken from you and sent to a hut in Narym without trial?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                in "terrible" Siberia, only those who deserved by their actions were expelled.

                Liar WHERE is the court?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                But Zemsky's "figures" confirm how you love with documents, only real, not fake.

                Read Zemskov, an ardent communist and heaven-worshiper of Solzhenitsyn, he refers to the archives, I can’t do this for you.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 2 October 2018 19: 34
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  I don't care about YOUR "ratings". The state assessed them as lawlessness, i.e. a crime against the citizens of the country.

                  If you are indifferent, then why bother? And the bourgeois state, consisting of enemies of socialism like you, condemned dispossession.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 October 2018 09: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    And the bourgeois state, consisting of enemies of socialism like you, condemned dispossession.

                    condemned the SOVIET state in 1989-1991 since ALL SOVIET laws of the USSR of those years were violated
  13. alebor
    alebor 27 September 2018 10: 02
    +5
    I don't understand why A. Samsonov cites the example of the "pervert" Enukudze as a typical repressed? I'd rather tell you about S.P. Korolev with a broken jaw during interrogations, or about K.K. Rokossovsky with knocked out teeth and broken ribs. Perhaps they should have been grateful for the fact that they "got off easy" and were not shot, like many other arrested "perverts"?
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 12: 45
      +8
      Korolev was de facto convicted as they would now say "misuse of budget funds"
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 05
        -1
        And in the USSR everyone was convicted of criminal charges. There were no political
        1. Claymore
          Claymore 27 September 2018 15: 05
          0
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          And in the USSR everyone was convicted of criminal charges. There were no political

          What is a "political article"?
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 17: 57
            0
            As under the King, there was division
            1. Claymore
              Claymore 27 September 2018 19: 38
              +1
              The "as at" answer can be given to the "how" question, but not to the "what is" question.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 September 2018 14: 47
        -2
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        Korolev was de facto convicted as they would now say "misuse of budget funds"

        Korolev is justified from the insane accusation
        1. Rastas
          Rastas 27 September 2018 16: 53
          +2
          By the way, Korolev was a communist. Therefore, you must a priori hate his fierce hatred.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 39
            -1
            He was also a hereditary nobleman. Do you hate him for this?
            1. Rastas
              Rastas 28 September 2018 15: 16
              0
              No. I calmly move to the period of the monarchy and even sometimes defend it from too zealous anti-monarchists
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 September 2018 06: 54
            -2
            Quote: Rastas
            +1
            By the way, Korolev was a communist. Therefore you are a priori have his fierce hatred hates

            What's wrong with you? belay lol
        2. 020500
          020500 28 September 2018 13: 35
          +5
          Yes, he was condemned correctly. And then they also had mercy. In July 1944, S.P. Korolyov was prematurely released from custody with the removal of a criminal record, but without rehabilitation. For honest work and a clear correction. In essence, parole.

          And he was "rehabilitated" already in the era of the Khrushchev clique of corrupt traitors to the Motherland. When all a bunch of "rehabilitated" without understanding.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 14: 16
            -2
            And did he correctly break his jaw during interrogation? Or in violation of socialist legality? Approve?
            1. 020500
              020500 28 September 2018 16: 04
              0
              Jaws with irregularities. I do not approve.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 17: 39
                -3
                I didn’t admit it because of that and they broke it.
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 25
              +2
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              -2
              And did he correctly break his jaw during interrogation? Or in violation of socialist legality? Approve?

              And the hidden enemies of the Soviet regime broke their jaws, they made their way to the NKVD and then got what they deserved ..
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 15: 01
                -1
                I’m not sure that the NKVD officers who broke their jaws by order of their superiors received their punishment for this act.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 1 October 2018 18: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Koshnitsa
                  I’m not sure that the NKVD officers who broke their jaws by order of their superiors received their punishment for this act.

                  And, what, do not know that with L.P. Beria dealt with them, and everyone got what they deserved.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 1 October 2018 18: 33
                    +1
                    So then they sorted it out with your Beria, banged, burned it and scattered it in the dust over the treatment facilities.
                    And they dealt with the people of Beria, in the house where he was born, in the village of Mingrelian colonists, now a roadside toilet
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 2 October 2018 19: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      So then they sorted it out with your Beria, banged, burned it and scattered it in the dust over the treatment facilities.
                      And they dealt with the people of Beria, in the house where he was born, in the village of Mingrelian colonists, now a roadside toilet

                      It's okay, the counter-revolution has temporarily won, but the time will come and everything will return to normal, because the ideas of socialism are progressive.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 September 2018 09: 24
            -2
            Quote: 020500
            +2
            Yes, he was condemned correctly

            Not for you to judge, but for the Court. And he justified him.
  14. goose
    goose 27 September 2018 10: 36
    +5
    Quote: Olgovich
    The victory of the NEP meant the disappearance of the power of the Bolsheviks and the inevitable transfer of power to the people.

    Are you so naive How many states in the world with real power of the people? Only Iceland comes to mind.
    As candidates - Cuba, Denmark and Switzerland. ANYTHING is not visible.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 27 September 2018 14: 49
      -6
      Quote: goose
      Are you so naive How many states in the world with real power of the people?

      I will say differently: In ANY other country, the people had more power than in the Soviet one.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 15: 29
        +2
        What is and what is the difference between the power of the people in any other country, as you said, from the power of the people in a Soviet country?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 September 2018 07: 55
          -3
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          0
          What is and what is the difference between the power of the people in any other country, as you said, from the power of the people in a Soviet country?

          In any country there was at least some but the choice.
          There wasn’t.
      2. your1970
        your1970 27 September 2018 20: 59
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: goose
        Are you so naive How many states in the world with real power of the people?

        I will say differently: In ANY other country, the people had more power than in the Soviet one.
        - absolutely .... especially in the dictatorship ..... especially if you go somewhere in the direction of Africa / Latin America / Indochina with a colonial finger ... surely the people had more power - than the people in the USSR ... ..
        there is also the small britain scampering with the slogan - "our people rule !!"
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 September 2018 07: 58
          -4
          Quote: your1970
          by all means .... especially in the dictatorship ..... especially if you go somewhere in the direction of Africa / Latin America / Indochina with a colonial finger ... surely the people had more power - than the people in the USSR .... .
          there is also the small britain scampering with the slogan - "our people rule !!"

          In the dictatorship, no, of course. But they were neither dispossessed, nor millions of victims of hunger.
          1. your1970
            your1970 28 September 2018 10: 44
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: your1970
            by all means .... especially in the dictatorship ..... especially if you go somewhere in the direction of Africa / Latin America / Indochina with a colonial finger ... surely the people had more power - than the people in the USSR .... .
            there is also the small britain scampering with the slogan - "our people rule !!"

            In the dictatorship, no, of course. But they were neither dispossessed nor million victims of hunger.
            - at Africa there was no hunger ??? B colonies Small Britain (including India) ??? in Indochina??
            you something in the heat of the conviction of the USSR completely lost the coast fool fool fool to the state - "Stoned" .......
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 28 September 2018 12: 06
              -5
              Quote: your1970
              there was no famine in Africa ??? In the colonies of Small Britain (including India) ??? in Indochina ????

              YES, neither in Africa, nor in Indochina, nor in general nowhere in the world SUCH a hunger (absolutely secret to 1989 d) as 1933 never did not have!
              Chop up a bundle on your nose about it!
              Quote: your1970
              you something in the heat of the conviction of the USSR completely lost the coast

              Do not confuse the country and power. Our country-beautiful.

              2. take an interest in the topic "Mass famine in the XNUMXth century": and that power all around: the famines of 1933, 22, 47
              1. 020500
                020500 28 September 2018 16: 07
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                famines 1933, 22


                And for these famines, I must say thanks to the fists extolled by you. And the authorities should be blamed for the fact that they themselves had clenched their fists, and for the fact that the dispossession had not begun a couple of years earlier. You look and hunger would not be
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 17: 40
                  -3
                  For the famine of 1932-33, I must say thanks to the dispossessed fists in 1929-30? Excuse me, how?
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 28 September 2018 12: 18
              0
              Quote: your1970
              you, in the heat of denouncing the USSR, completely lost the coast to the state - "Stoned" .......

              This is Olgovich! lol He never found them. laughing
            3. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 17: 46
              -3
              That is, the Slavic republics in the USSR can be safely compared with the colonies of Africa and Asia?
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 34
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            In the dictatorship, no, of course. But they were neither dispossessed, nor millions of victims of hunger.

            And you take an interest in the history of England when capitalism began to develop there, how all the peasants were driven out of the land, how they were dying of hunger, and how they were hanged. In Russia, capitalism arose later and there was less time for its development, so the socialist revolution had to solve the tasks that capitalism had to solve. But the Soviet government, unlike the English, did not drive out of the land, but proposed an effective way to develop agriculture, and applied administrative measures to those. that harmed this development.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 13: 06
              -3
              Well, to compare Russia and England is generally impossible. Russia is a huge desert land, in which even the Middle Volga region was not completely colonized
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 30 September 2018 14: 28
                +3
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                Well, to compare Russia and England is generally impossible. Russia is a huge desert land, in which even the Middle Volga region was not completely colonized

                Why not? You often compare the First World War and the Great Patriotic War, and you don’t even blush.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 14: 33
                  -2
                  A war in a short period, about the same composition and with the same outcome, and why blush?
                  It can be generally considered as one war in two stages.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 30 September 2018 17: 43
                    +1
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    It can be generally considered as one war in two stages.

                    If so, then the bourgeois revolution in England and the socialist revolution in Russia can also be considered as one historical development in two stages.
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 18: 03
                      -1
                      But not necessary.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 October 2018 18: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        But no need

                        Means and German. The war of 1914 with the Great Patriotic War also does not need to be compared.
  15. goose
    goose 27 September 2018 10: 44
    +8
    Quote: Trapper7
    After the stories of my dear grandmother about how entire families were sent to Siberia in the village simply by the denunciation of their neighbors, I cannot fully agree with the article.

    These stories with denunciations and vaults of accounts with neighbors began long before collectivization and dispossession, and ended only in 1938, when special commissions were created. Of course, the rampage of Black Friday at the time when denunciations were the norm, was a terrible mistake that the commission raked for another 8 years. But objectively, more than 80% of those repressed during the period 1935-1938 were rehabilitated by 1940. The same commission also dealt with the events of the early 30s. As a result, the atmosphere of universal denunciation was broken, although in some areas it survived to the end of the 80s.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 27 September 2018 14: 50
      -4
      Quote: goose
      o objectively, more than 80% of the repressed in the period 1935-1938, were rehabilitated by 1940.

      What have they raised?
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 27 September 2018 16: 55
        +2
        So they also rehabilitated in droves, often without trial, really guilty or not.
      2. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 27 September 2018 21: 42
        0
        And no one killed them - why did they resurrect laughing
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 39
          0
          Themselves in the camps died!
  16. kalibr
    kalibr 27 September 2018 11: 08
    0
    Quote: Boris55
    about excesses in places allowed during collectivization.

    Admitted as instructed above!
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 27 September 2018 11: 43
      +6
      Quote: kalibr
      Admitted as instructed above!

      Do you deny initiatives from below? But what about: "Calm down, urak"?
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 11: 44
        -2
        Do you believe that?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 27 September 2018 12: 04
          +1
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          Do you believe that?

          Since I believe, I do not believe - it’s in your church.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 45
            +1
            It’s clear that it’s not a church, although there are holy places that are anti-church, there are holy processions twice a year, you are offended when your religious feelings and prophets are offended.
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 10
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            Do you believe that?

            Since I believe, I do not believe - it’s in your church.

            If you study the history of the country on the materials of the XX Congress, then you can believe in Martians.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 24
              +3
              Other congresses were no less fantastic.
              Lenin promised communism in 15 years, Stalin in 20 years, Khrushchev in 25 years.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 32
                +2
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                Lenin promised communism in 15 years, Stalin in 20 years, Khrushchev in 25 years

                Well, I don’t argue about Khrushchev, there is a clinic.
                But about the promises of Lenin and Stalin-cite at least, with reference to sources.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 55
                  +2
                  It’s a shame, comrade, to not know this.
                  These are the classics of Marxism-Leninism.
                  And now, the generation that is now 15 years old and which in 10-20 years will live in a communist society, should set all the tasks of their teachings so that every day in any village, in any city, young people solve practically this or that task of common labor, albeit the smallest, let the simplest. As this happens in every village, as communist competition develops, as young people prove that they can combine their work, the success of communist construction will be ensured. Just looking at every step we take from the point of view of the success of this construction, only asking ourselves whether we have done everything to be united by conscious workers, the Communist Youth Union will make it unite half a million of its members into one army of work and arouse general respect for itself . (Thunder of applause.)


                  Pravda MM 221, 222 and 223; 5, b and 7 October 1920


                  Printed according to the text of the brochure:

                  N. Lenin (V.I. Ulyanov). "Tasks of the Youth Unions", Moscow, 1920, verified with the text of the newspaper
                  At the October plenary session of 1952, Stalin expressed the opinion that, approximately in 1962-1965, while maintaining the current pace of development of the national economy, the USSR would be able to switch from socialism to communism. And this transition will begin with the liquidation of money in the Union. They will remain only for foreign trade. In 1940, Stalin promised communism in 1955.
                  Well, Khrushchev will find yourself in 1980.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 15: 05
                    +2
                    Quote: Koshnitsa
                    At the October plenary session of the 1952, Mr. Stalin expressed the opinion that at about 1962-1965, while maintaining the current pace of development of the national economy, the USSR will be able to transition from socialism to communism

                    Stalin was not a searchlight like Khrushchev was.
                    In all respects, Khrushchev to Stalin was like walking to the moon.
                    What Ilyich stated .... Let us leave this on his conscience.
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 48
                      0
                      They are all the same, they built communism in the near future, khe-khe ...
                      Stalin did not even know how to speak Russian, for 50 years of living among Russians. What does not testify to the mind at all.
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 16: 01
                        0
                        Engaged in spiritualism? Did they evoke the spirit of the deceased and communicate directly?
                        wassat
                        The presence of an accent did not make Stalin’s speech illiterate.
                        The person who was involved in the question of nationalities, and wrote several dozen books and works, could not know the Russian language.
                      2. Looking for
                        Looking for 27 September 2018 17: 47
                        -5
                        Chekhov and the Czech Republic had long been wiped off the face of the earth.
              2. The comment was deleted.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 27 September 2018 12: 31
        +1
        agree
        weirdos on "m" banned "-" me
        freedom of flight
        cancel cons undertakers
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 27 September 2018 13: 18
        -2
        A trend is set from above, but you can say anything to one. Are you used to rising above the little things? Do you refer to them yourself?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 27 September 2018 14: 23
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          Are you used to rising above the little things? Do you refer to them yourself?
          ... And the devil is always hiding in the little things!

          And what to do ... As the saying goes, if you want to be understood, speak with the interlocutor in his language. laughing
    2. Claymore
      Claymore 27 September 2018 15: 07
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Admitted as instructed above!

      Documents with directions to the studio.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 27 September 2018 21: 38
        -2
        Speech I.V. Stalin at the conference of Marxist agrarians "On issues of agrarian policy in the USSR", December 27 1929
        1. Claymore
          Claymore 28 September 2018 00: 48
          +1
          What part of this speech is indicative of excesses?
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 38
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Admitted as instructed above!

      Our historian forgot about the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) On excesses in the field.
  17. antivirus
    antivirus 27 September 2018 12: 31
    +1
    weirdos on "m" banned "-" me
    freedom of flight
    cancel cons undertakers
  18. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 12: 32
    +5
    Leaving the NEP’s policy, we would not have won the war and didn’t achieve the pace of industrialization ... NEP as a temporary measure had its advantages, but the bourgeois class and shopkeepers began to revive, new Soviet bourgeois began to appear and he sowed those grains of corruption of the power elite that it was not possible to destroy Stalin to the end, and which sprung up under a stormy weed under Khrushchev and bloomed in the future
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 12: 45
      0
      Who are you, and what war have you won?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 27 September 2018 13: 23
        +2
        Quote: Koshnitsa
        Who are you, and what war have you won?

        We do not separate ourselves from our ancestors and do not oppose ourselves to them. We are one with them. And you?
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 36
          +2
          You are some kind of non-human organism, Lem had such, multi-bodies were called.
          You are a pension participant of the Second World War, for the grandfather is not getting? bully
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 27 September 2018 14: 42
            -1
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            You are a pension participant of the Second World War, for the grandfather is not getting?

            Are you interested in anything other than dough?
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 13: 39
      +2
      Do you have such a way of clinging to the word? Everyone perfectly understood who won and what I had in mind ... but I also won my personal war,
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 41
        0
        That is, by killing several million of their soldiers, embittered tens of millions, destroying the military and technical elite, Stalin contributed to Hitler's victory in this way, but not the other way around.
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 13: 48
          +3
          You yourself understood what you wrote ?? What kind of crap? From what oak did you fall off writing this? Where did you get this from reading my comment ????
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 13: 50
            -2
            From your words, dear Andrei, from your support for the policy of the Communists in the pre-war period.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 00
              +2
              Hmm ..... this is the mess and the intricacies you have .... how can it be from my opinion that if the NEP had not collapsed, the country would not have made such industrialization, we can conclude that all this was done so that Hitler defeated Stalin ??? ???
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 05
                +1
                Strongly helped Stalin glands in the 41st year to win the war?
                That is, you see only one side, as if without the massacre of the population it was impossible to carry out industrialization?
                1. Andrey VOV
                  Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 14
                  0
                  the figures of the shot and repressed in that period of time are known, and if you studied at school, you should know that the Great Patriotic War officially ended on May 9, 1945
                2. Andrey VOV
                  Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 16
                  +1
                  and at that time, it couldn’t be done in any other way ... if you look carefully, all the turning points, at least the majority, were accompanied by blood .. not only in Russia
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 27 September 2018 14: 20
                    -1
                    how do you know whether it was possible or not ??? Repression and dispossession only harmed the USSR and prevented the normal course of the Second World War, and, as a result, led to gigantic losses.
                    1. Andrey VOV
                      Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 24
                      +2
                      What does the normal course of World War II mean?
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 27 September 2018 14: 28
                        +1
                        So without drapes to Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad, and without losses several times higher than that of the enemy.
                      2. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 36
                        -1
                        With less loss and defeat.
                    2. Claymore
                      Claymore 27 September 2018 15: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Repression and dispossession only harmed the USSR and prevented the normal course of the Second World War, and, as a result, led to gigantic losses.

                      What is the "normal course of the Second World War," and how could the punishment for the crimes committed (repression) and the deprivation of the opportunity to receive unearned income (dispossession) lead to "gigantic losses"?
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 50
                        -2
                        Elementary.
                        If a person is undeservedly humiliated, exiled, executed by his relatives, it is unlikely that he will conscientiously serve and, moreover, perform miracles of heroism, but he’ll be able to settle accounts with the oppressors.
                      2. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: Claymore

                        What is the "normal course of the Second World War," and how could the punishment for the crimes committed (repression) and the deprivation of the opportunity to receive unearned income (dispossession) lead to "gigantic losses"?


                        I already wrote - without a drape to Moscow and Stalingrad with gigantic losses. The punishment for the crime and the deprivation of the opportunity to receive unearned income, most likely, could not lead to gigantic losses.
                        But political repression and dispossession led.
                      3. Claymore
                        Claymore 27 September 2018 16: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        If a person is undeservedly humiliated, exiled, executed by his relatives, it is unlikely that he will conscientiously serve and, moreover, perform miracles of heroism, but he’ll be able to settle accounts with the oppressors.

                        I am not interested in reflections from the "hardly" series.


                        I asked 2 specific questions.

                        1 What is the "normal course of the Second World War"?

                        2 How could the penalties for crimes committed (they are repressions) and depriving a particular category of citizens of the opportunity to receive unearned income (the same dispossession) could lead to huge losses?

                        Will there be answers?
                      4. Claymore
                        Claymore 27 September 2018 17: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        I already wrote

                        Who?

                        - without a drape to Moscow and Stalingrad with gigantic losses

                        Draping one of the warring parties is normal for any war.

                        But political repression and dispossession led.

                        Repression - a punishment carried out by state bodies for violation of state law.

                        Political repression is jargon, which is understood as a punishment provided for an act classified by the criminal code as a "crime against the state."

                        Dispossession of money — depriving an individual of a class belonging to the methods of generating income (the methods of generating income from the kulaks were speculation, usury, renting out means of production and regular hiring of labor).

                        Kulakov was deprived of the opportunity to earn income through speculation, usury, renting a joint venture and the regular hiring of workers, thereby transferring them either to the class of peasants (rural residents living from subsistence farming and small-scale production), or to the class of the proletariat (wage earners public enterprises) - i.e. dispossessed.


                        Accordingly, the question again arises - how could the punishment for crimes committed against the state (they are political repressions) and deprivation of the kulaks of the opportunity to receive unearned income (the same dispossession) could lead to some gigantic losses?
                    3. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 29 September 2018 14: 50
                      +3
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      0
                      how do you know whether it was possible or not ??? Repression and dispossession only harmed the USSR and prevented the normal course of the Second World War, and, as a result, led to gigantic losses.

                      According to your logic: How do you know that repression and dispossession have damaged the USSR?
                  2. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 23
                    0
                    Why did you decide that? There is always the opportunity to do otherwise.
                    And who made the decisions? Politburo, consisting of people with powerful jaws and low backs sloping back.
                    1. Andrey VOV
                      Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 26
                      -1
                      Are you a supporter of the Lambroso theory? And the decisions were made by those people who, at that time, were at the helm of the country, not sent from Mars or another place
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 35
                        +2
                        Yes there without Lambroso, full alles.
                        Nerus, all kinds of dropouts, tumbleweed, in Russian, like Dzhugashvili did not learn to speak normally for 50 years of life among Russians. Well, and so on.
                        It is hard to deal with such personnel even in a very simple matter, and let alone a country such as Russia lead them there.
                  3. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 28 September 2018 08: 15
                    -1
                    Quote: Andrey VOV
                    and at that time, no other way could be done.

                    The Russian people have long ago said with their wisdom: "If you don't know how, don't take it!", "If you can't, don't torture!"
                    Moreover, no one has ever instructed to do so.
            2. Rastas
              Rastas 27 September 2018 17: 00
              0
              The trouble is that the Russian people were "annihilated" under your beloved tsar during the suppression of peasant uprisings. And many of those who died during the repressions, for which you supposedly regret, were the communists you hated so much.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 20: 22
                0
                How many peasants were destroyed under the Tsar, exactly killed?
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 07
          +1
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          That is, by killing several million of their soldiers, embittered tens of millions, destroying the military and technical elite, Stalin contributed to Hitler's victory in this way, but not the other way around.

          Forgot to mention the "bloody gebne".

          "Saw, Shura, saw ..." (with)
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 22
            +2
            So she was also destroyed, having changed several structures, for the 41st year, for example, in the Krasnodar Territory, 52% of investigators, investigators, Karl !, had only primary education.
            Can such a system, consisting of illiterate people, work effectively?
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 28
              -1
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              having changed several staffs, in the 41 year, for example, in the Krasnodar Territory 52% of investigators, investigators, Karl !, had only primary education.

              If you really want to "get to the bottom of the truth," I advise you to get acquainted with the works of E. Prudnikova on this topic.
              Feel free to read ....
              One of her trump cards is a step-by-step presentation of events, both about the struggle in the party after the death of Ilyich, as well as the situation with cadres in all sectors and institutions from the middle of the 20 to the beginning of World War II.

              And then draw parallels with today.
              Believe me, analogies are like dirt.
              hi
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 56
                0
                And who is Prudnikoff? There is no such surname in historical science.
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 15: 06
                  0
                  What are the authors that fit your criteria for historical justice?
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 15
                    +1
                    Documentation.
                    Turn on your brain.
                    1. stalkerwalker
                      stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 15: 18
                      -1
                      Thanks for the chat.

                      Communicate with your family with such aplomb.
                      hi
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 25
                    +1
                    Prudnikova on what topic she defended her thesis for the candidate of historical sciences? Or a historian’s diploma on what topic she wrote and in which university, do not tell me?
                    1. stalkerwalker
                      stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 16: 51
                      -1
                      A. Shirokorad did not protect anything. But his monographs on history, as well as on armaments, are famous.
                      Which of the "historians" you know meets your criterion of "reliability"?
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 08
                        +1
                        Likewise, Fomenko's monographs on history are "well known."
                        One who is qualified and professionally engaged. Isaev, for example, Zamulin, etc.
                    2. Rastas
                      Rastas 27 September 2018 17: 05
                      -1
                      Read Zemskov better. Man is not the least bit Stalinist. On the contrary, during perestroika he worked in the archives for collectivization and repression. Here is his book "Stalin and the People. Why There Was No Uprising" and study it.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 09
                        +1
                        Zemskov is a good researcher, yes
                      2. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 44
                        0
                        outright wimp
                  3. 020500
                    020500 27 September 2018 17: 12
                    +1
                    About rural life, collective farms, Stalinist times, etc., read better Balaev. not in books, so in a blog.
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 02: 08
                      0
                      I'm not a nonsense hunter
                      1. 020500
                        020500 28 September 2018 13: 37
                        +2
                        He has entertaining personal memoirs about collective farm life.
  19. bober1982
    bober1982 27 September 2018 13: 58
    +1
    Yenukidze was not only a prominent party member, but also a friend of Stalin, which the author of the article did not mention, who, of course, knew well all the evil inclinations of his friend (Yenukidze knew about Stalin, he was about Yenukidze), but only in 1935 was a command to persecute Yenukidze.
    Moreover, Comrade Yenukidze was not shot right away, he suffered a couple of years as the head of a road office far from Moscow, and only then was liquidated. Stalin loved to drive a man after he fell from the top of the government into a raunchy corner, look at his convulsions and only then shoot. There was such a bad trait in the leader, although Stalin certainly could not refuse wit.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 06
      0
      Quote: bober1982
      Stalin liked to drive a man after his fall from the heights of power, be sure to a raunchy corner, look at his convulsions and only then shoot

      Study the leadership structure of the country and in the CPSU (b) in the USSR in the 30 of the last century, before putting on display your amateurism.
  20. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 14: 35
    +1
    Gopnik,
    The losses of the military precisely are comparable between the USSR and Germany, this is known, and there is no gap tenfold ... but if there had been no industrialization, there would have been no May 9, 1945 ... there would have been no command and administrative system that was at that time there wouldn’t be such a transfer of industry to the east at such times and so on and so forth ....
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik 27 September 2018 14: 44
      0
      There is nothing and anything close to "comparable". According to the maximum estimate of Overmans, the loss of Germany is 5,3 million. ON ALL FRONTS, according to the minimum estimate of Krivosheev, the loss of the USSR Armed Forces is 9 million. And according to Zemskov, 11 million. And if we take the loss of the entire population, then it becomes completely depressing.
      They wouldn’t do deindustrialization - they wouldn’t have to do industrialization. And, in any case, dispossession and repression did not contribute to industrialization, on the contrary.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 50
        -3
        And who is Overmans to take his word for it? Leads losses on the basis of what data, for all branches of the German military, including the allies?

        The Overmans' calculations are a typical example of "pulling" downward with "forgetfulness" as needed.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 27 September 2018 14: 57
          0
          Well, google and find out who he is and based on what he leads. EU-but without allies, as well as the loss of the Soviet Union lead without allies.
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 15: 00
            0
            And who was the USSR ally? Real so powerful ??
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 27 September 2018 15: 54
              0
              And you don’t know? UK, USA, for example. Well, the little things all sorts of Romania with Bulgaria
              1. Andrey VOV
                Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 16: 26
                +1
                Yes, to have such allies that one more enemy smiles in the face, and holds the knife behind his back ...
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 45
                  +2
                  Well, this is simply indecent. England and the United States provided gigantic assistance to the USSR, saving millions of lives. For which they bow low.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 16: 57
                    -1
                    How cute!

                    First, create ALL conditions for the militarization of Hitler's Germany, invest billions of dollars in the military industry of the Third Reich, and give "carte blanche" in Munich. And wait for the moment - whether to bring the USSR under the terms of "Lend-Lease" until 22.06.41.

                    The Jesuitism of Pure Water ....

                    And today to equate the USSR and Germany, declaring them "allies", completely rejecting the proposal to create an "anti-Hitler alliance" in 1934, but stubbornly leaning on the "Non-Aggression Pact".
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 12
                      -1
                      The USSR, the kagbe, created the conditions for the militarization of Germany until 22.06.41, actively cooperating and supplying raw materials, gave a carte blanche having concluded the Secret Protocol to the Non-Aggression Pact and the Treaty of Friendship and Border.
                      The Jesuitism of Pure Water ...
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 17: 17
                        +1
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        The USSR, the kagbe, created the conditions for the militarization of Germany until 22.06.41, actively cooperating and supplying raw materials, gave a carte blanche having concluded the Secret Protocol to the Non-Aggression Pact and the Treaty of Friendship and Border.

                        What are you doing? belay KGB? In the 30 of the last century?
                        Feels like "Who forged the sword ..." laughing

                        Thank. I don’t ask about anything else.
                        hi
                  2. 020500
                    020500 27 September 2018 17: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    rendered gigantic assistance to the USSR, saving millions of lives


                    Yes Yes. It was only thanks to them that we won. That was some help, of course. But by no means "gigantic".
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 38
                      0
                      Not only thanks to them, but thanks to them too. Is a third of the explosives "giant help" or not?
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 19: 27
                        0
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        "giant help" or not?

                        First, they raised a Nazi beast with an eye to the implementation of the "Eastern question". But the way to advance Germany to the East lay through Poland. England and France "surrendered" Poland, just as they surrendered Czechoslovakia before. They got involved in a war with Germany, they profiled France. And then in the "neutral USA" there was the law on "Lend-Lease", which did not imply automatic assistance to the USSR.
              2. 020500
                020500 27 September 2018 17: 24
                +3
                Eeee ... Rumunia and Bulgaria? Normal allies ... Yes. Some half of the country was robbed, they reached the city of Stalingrad with the Germans. Only in 1945 they were kicked by the Germans.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 27 September 2018 17: 39
                  -1
                  Well, what are they? I must say "thank you" to the leadership of the USSR that on 22.06.41 we met without allies at all
                  1. 020500
                    020500 28 September 2018 13: 39
                    +3
                    And where would they come from? If the whole (!!!) world was hostile to the USSR solely because of the social system.
                    And this, by the way, is under the extremely cautious and peace-loving foreign policy pursued by Stalin in 1930.
                  2. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 29 September 2018 17: 46
                    +1
                    Well, not that "at all". Already on June 25.06.1941, 1945, out of a sense of camaraderie, he declared war on Germany and until 1939 helped us as much as he could, incl. soldiers. And England, having received shame and war in XNUMX, the Volens-Nolens became our ally. And behind it is the United States.
            2. 020500
              020500 27 September 2018 17: 13
              +1
              Powerful, still what - Mongolia
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 15: 12
            +2
            You can google yourself. Bellingcat is not credibility for me.
            Moreover, the losses of Germany and the allies at the last stage - winter-spring of 1945 did not have a correct account.
            Those. so called "Overmans' losses" are nothing more than "black bookkeeping".

            Quote: Gopnik
            EU-but without allies, like the loss of the Soviet Union lead without allies.

            Come on....
            Distort at the card table.
            We consider the losses on the Soviet-German front from 22.06.41 to 12.05.1945.

            How much the Allies lost in Africa, France, and the Pacific does not matter in this case.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 15
              -1
              Well, since it’s not authority for you, yes, it doesn’t. It is necessary to focus on a thread Mukhin, yes.
              They did not have accounting in the sense of breakdown by fronts, and so the figure is quite well known.
              Yes, on the Soviet-German front, the losses of the USSR allies must be taken into account - Romanians, Bulgarians, Czechoslovakians, Poles.
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 27 September 2018 17: 07
                0
                You can read Isaev.
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 17: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Rastas
                  You can read Isaev.

                  Just did not give excerpts, although I respect his works.

                  Here, after all, as now - Bellingkat and the White Helmets - yes, this is a source of trustworthy - here you have academic ranks, knowledge of chemistry, with doctoral defense, and the ability to use social networks and a video editor.
              2. 020500
                020500 27 September 2018 17: 33
                +2
                How many were those Czechoslovakians and Poles on the Soviet side? Chekhov one building - 16 people?
                And in the Wehrmacht - 300.000.

                Poles? in 2 armies - 100.000. The Germans served 400.000 Poles
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 21: 56
                  -1
                  You confuse the Poles and Czechs with the local Volksdeutsches, and there the Soviet Volksdeutsches fought.
                  Who fought in the Wehrmacht is inscribed in German losses.
                  1. 020500
                    020500 28 September 2018 00: 50
                    0
                    That's just not. You are mistaken here. It is quite a Poles and Czechs were called to the Wehrmacht precisely because they were citizens of the Reich. Slovaks just put their army on the side of the Germans.
                    But the Russians (generally former Soviet), yes, also in a fair amount of war for the Germans, and not only in the SS gangs such as the Rozak Cossack corps and other legions and divisions, but also as a hevi. Moreover, these Khivis not only controlled the carts and cooked porridge, but sat quite in the trenches with weapons, because they were afraid of the Red Army before shredding. But the Soviet Volksdeutsche in the Wehrmacht just did not call
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 02: 09
                      -1
                      They called, the Volksdeutsche fought with Moldova there, where the Germans were able to capture them
          3. Beringovsky
            Beringovsky 27 September 2018 22: 08
            +2
            Overmans is an ordinary German liar. And the Germans knew how to lie better than anyone else, it was not for nothing that the "main liar" was the German - Munchausen.
            And now they are no better - the scandal with the underestimation of Volkswagen emissions by 40 times (!!!!!! and what is trifling) is an example.
            It has long been known - no one lies like the losers
            Better explain why, with such small losses, it was possible to place millions of people with disabilities, old people and children from the Hitler Youth under arms. Where were the healthy, grown-up Germans hiding in the basements?
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 28 September 2018 00: 02
              -1
              5 million killed for a country like Germany, not a small loss.
              Germany collapsed in WWII with 2 million dead
      2. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 15: 02
        +3
        But why don’t you refer to the same Krivosheev and his estimates of the losses of the Wehrmacht and its allies? As it turns out one-sided, I think, I don’t think here ..
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 04
          -4
          Krivosheev is a well-deserved forger, to refer to him means to mock the memory of the fallen in that war.
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 17
          -1
          The losses of the parties are calculated according to their sources. I, in turn, do not refer to the Germans' estimates of Soviet losses, in turn.
        3. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 21: 56
          -1
          I do not refer to Krivosheev
      3. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 15: 03
        0
        And when did you forgive deindustrialization in Russia ??
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 04
          -1
          Did it happen at all?
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 27 September 2018 15: 17
            +1
            “If we didn't do de-industrialization, we wouldn't have to do industrialization.” - this is your phrase, I ask, when was de-industrialization in Russia?
            Further, and who do you think is not a falsifier7 where did you get the figure of 20 million military personnel?
            And there are a lot of such mothers who have lost all their sons in our country, I will give you quite a few examples
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 35
              -2
              The Bolsheviks started the civil war, so the normal development of Russia is possible only in the case of cleansing from communism. Its consequences are devastating. Is it clear now.
              This is the official figure of the Immortal Regiment, more than 19 million servicemen.
              And there are a lot of such mothers who have lost all their sons in our country, I will give you quite a few examples // And Krivosheev does not agree with this, like it was not a war, but a fun walk.
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 27 September 2018 17: 10
                +1
                Well, here Chubais and Gaidar started talking to you. Those had the same task. And in the 40s, Hitler also decided to tackle the eradication of communism. You are an ideological follower.
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 27 September 2018 16: 18
          -2
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          And when did you forgive deindustrialization in Russia ??


          In 1918 - 1922
      4. naidas
        naidas 28 September 2018 19: 42
        +3
        from the report of I.V. Stalin on November 6, 1941

        Today, the size of the invasion army, which the Nazis from all over Europe gathered, is approximately 8 - EIGHT) million soldiers and officers from about 20 countries. And this huge army lost killed, wounded and captured about 4,5 million soldiers and officers in 4 months of the war !!! About a million per month !!!! It is clear that it was impossible to fully recover these losses, although they managed to achieve this by about half, i.e. About 2 million new soldiers from almost all European countries arrived on the Eastern Front during the summer and fall of 1941. Our combat losses over 4 months of fighting amounted to 1 million 20 thousand wounded, 350 thousand killed, 378 thousand missing.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 29 September 2018 19: 22
          -3
          why their Nazis regret, and even on the report.
          1. naidas
            naidas 30 September 2018 22: 52
            +1
            only the Nazis ended by 1942. I had to strain the Vlasovites and others, without them it was no longer possible.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 30 September 2018 23: 35
              -3
              Saakashvili didn’t say such a thing about the victories of the Georgian gun. This is a national trait.
              1. naidas
                naidas 2 October 2018 11: 03
                0
                Napoleon, Hitler, too, didn’t say such things about the victories of their weapons, are you Georgians too?
  21. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 14: 39
    +1
    sad
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    The losses of the military in the USSR and Germany are comparable

    About 4 million from the Germans and 20 million from ours. Of course, not a dozen times, but compared with the WWI per 1 million Russians, 2 million Austro-Germans. sad
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 14: 44
      -2
      Quote: Koshnitsa
      About 4 million from the Germans and 20 million from ours. Of course not ten times

      Eco has incurred you, my friend ...

      Do not be unfounded - lay out the sources. Or did the calculation themselves? On accounts, or on a calculator ...
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 September 2018 15: 12
        -3
        35 million people were drafted, and a little more than 15 were awarded the medal "For Victory over Germany".
        So much for the 20 million who did not receive the medal.
        It is without militias and partisans.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 27 September 2018 19: 08
          +1
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          The losses of the military ... About 4 million from the Germans and 20 million from ours ... 35 million people were drafted, and a little more than 15 were awarded the medal "For Victory over Germany". So much for 20 million who did not receive a medal. This is without militias and partisans.
          It is not true. It looks like cheating, as Bandera-fascist propagandists do. There is an upper estimate of USSR losses - 26.6 million.
          This obviously includes those who were taken to Germany or captured and stayed in the West, who themselves left the occupied territory, who fought against the USSR, but fell into our losses because they were a citizen of the USSR. Taking into account the mass genocide that the Nazis waged against the civilian population (in my small homeland, specifically the Magyars) and the Bandera, Balts, etc., serving them, the civilian population also died as a result of hostilities - to believe that there were only a few civilian losses millions is impossible. I’m not asking where in your calculations the figures of the notorious Holocaust are. Counting by medals is incorrect - then there were no computers, taking into account there were problems. My father received "For Victory over Germany", but did not receive "Partisan of the Patriotic War", although he had been partisans for about a year.
          The error you have is apparently methodical. Z5 million was not called, but mobilized. Total. Moreover, not only in the Red Army, but also in the NKVD, etc., as well as in the economy (emnip, about 6 million). Moreover, this figure is already taking into account the pre-war strength of the Red Army, the NKVD ...
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 27 September 2018 19: 19
            0
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            The error you have is apparently methodical. Z5 million was not called up, but mobilized. Total. And not only in the Red Army, but also in the NKVD, etc., as well as in the economy (emnip, about 6 million). Moreover, this figure is already taking into account the pre-war strength of the Red Army, the NKVD ...

            22.06.41 million people passed through the Red Army from 01.05.45 to 34, and about 20 million passed through the German armed forces.
            The strength of the Red Army and Navy by 22 June 1941 was 4704,41 thousand people. This figure includes not only the list number of the army and navy, but also the number of servicemen who served in the units of civilian departments, being on the content of the People’s Commissariat of Defense (there were 74,95 thousands of them). During the war (until 1 on May 1945), 29 574,9 thousand people were called up to the armed forces, including 805,26 thousand people were called up for training camps even before the start of the war. Thousands of people of repeated recruitment from among those who were surrounded and subsequently re-joined the troops from the liberated territory are not included in the named figure called up during the war. Thus, taking into account the prewar numbers, thousands of people passed through the Armed Forces of the USSR during the war 939,7 34.