Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy. Current status and prospects. H. 3

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In the first part of the cycle, we were forced to note with regret that today, in the event of a full-scale conflict with NATO, the domestic maritime aviation The Russian Navy can only "show that it knows how to die bravely" simply because of its small size. But maybe this is a temporary phenomenon? Let's try to evaluate our prospects.

So, two squadrons of the MiG-31, which are part of the naval aviation of the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation, as it can be understood, will be updated to the MiG-31BM, but no further transfer of aircraft of this type to the naval aviation is planned. That, in general, is absolutely correct, since the place for these aircraft is still in the air defense aviation.

Available Su-33s are likely to serve another 10-15 years, gradually leaving for a well-deserved rest. Obviously, they will not order new deck MiG-29KR / KUBR, especially since in the coming years 17 Su-33 and 22 MiG-29KR / KUBR, even taking into account current repairs, etc., will always be able to provide 100% loading of the TAVKR "Admiral fleet Soviet Union Kuznetsov. "

Until recently, the air force of the Baltic Fleet consisted of the Su-24M squadron and the Su-27 squadron (probably modernized) —that was all that remained of the 4-th separate Guards Marine Assault Aviation Regiment and the 689-th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment. However, then the situation turned for the better. The Baltic Fleet received several Su-30SM multi-role fighters, all of which entered the 72-th aviation base of the Baltic Fleet's aviation base at the Chernyakhovsk airfield, where the Su-24M squadron was based. And in 2017 g, it was again transformed into an air regiment having a mixed composition of two squadrons, one of which was Su-30CM (the exact number transferred to the BF, unfortunately, is unknown to the author).


"Baltic" Su-30CM


But the Omshap 4 doesn’t seem to be limited to the revival: according to statements made by the responsible persons made by 2018 in January, it is “an opinion” to reanimate the famous 689 th gap, equipping it with Su-27CM and СM3, and then, in perspective, transfer him to one squadron of Su-35.

The Black Sea Assault Aviation Regiment, obviously, will gradually replace the Su-24M available in its armament and will fully switch to the Su-30CM. In addition, there is information that, on the basis of the Su-30CM, transferred today to the Northern Fleet in the 279-th service, a separate air regiment will be deployed, equipped with aircraft of this type.

Thus, we see a clearly traceable desire of the Russian Navy leadership to provide the Northern and Black Sea fleets with one regiment of multifunctional fighters each (and the Baltic Fleet even two!), Not counting deck aircraft and MiG-31BM. But what about the Pacific Fleet? Having at his disposal a single squadron of MiG-31BM, he obviously needs to replenish the air force: it is impossible to imagine that the leadership of the Russian Navy does not understand this. Therefore, and taking into account the fact that Su-30CM is declared as the backbone of Russian naval aviation, the deployment of the Su-30CM regiment to the Pacific Fleet is most likely.

If these plans come true, then each of our four fleets will receive one regiment of land-based Su-30CM multi-role fighters, not counting carrier-based aviation and two MiG-31BM squadrons, and for BF another Su-27M or M3 will follow, replenishment Su-35. Assuming the average number of air regiments at the level of 30 units, we will need for this 18 Su-27CM / CM3, a dozen Su-35 (in perspective) and at least 120 Su-30CM. But is it real for us today?

Well, as of last year, Su-27CM / СМ3 was only about fifty years old, and whether it is possible to select 18 machines for the Baltic Fleet from this number ... somehow doubtful. Therefore, it is most likely that this will be the case - a regiment consisting of two squadrons (24 machines) will be revived, and sometime later, in the bright future, they will add another dozen Su-35 to them. And no matter how it turned out, one squadron will fly on Su-27, the second - on, say, Su-27СМ3, and then be removed from Su-27, replacing them with Su-35. Well, all right, these are just guesses, akin to fantasy on the coffee grounds. But is it really possible for naval aviation of the Russian Navy to get into its membership 120 Su-30CM for the formation of the Baltic, Black Sea, Northern and Pacific regiments?

Recall that the supply of Su-30CM to our armed forces was counted in March of 2012 g, when the first contract for 30 of this type of aircraft was made for the Air Force and the Russian Navy. Then there were others, and today the total number of contracted vehicles is 116 units, of which more than a hundred have already entered the VC and Navy, and by the end of 2018 there will be all 116. At the same time, 88 machines will serve in the VKS, and in the naval aviation of the Navy - 28 aircraft of this type. As you can see, after more than six years since the start of deliveries, and despite the fact that the share of “marine” Su-30CM in the total volume of their production is quite noticeable 24%, we still haven’t scraped the cars into one 30 -aircraft regiment. What will be next?

According to the article by A. Nikolsky (“Vedomosti”), which is referenced by the bmpd blog, the Russian Defense Ministry plans to conclude a contract for the purchase of another 2018 Su-36CM in the HVAC and Navy of the Russian Federation by the end of the 30 blog. Delivery will be carried out within three years (production of 12-14 machines per year is expected) and will be completed at 2021. All would be fine, but in August 2017 of Kommersant announced that production of Su-30СМ to 2022 g would be almost completed , and the plant is reoriented to the production of pans ... I beg your pardon, MS-21 passenger airliners. In total, in the worst case, we can expect the delivery of another 36 Su-30CM, which will still have to be somehow divided between the VKS and the Navy and ... everything. Focusing on the existing proportion of the distribution between these branches of the armed forces, it turns out that naval aviation of the Russian Navy will receive 9 machines. Of course, the share of Su-30CM due to naval aviation can be increased, but even the transfer of 20 machines from the planned NNFX RF Navy will allow to increase the number of Su-36CMs in naval aviation only to 30 machines, that is, to two regiments of two squadrons each . And this is unrestrained optimism.

Is it possible to increase the production of Su-30CM over the aforementioned 36 machines? No doubt, because for the normal functioning of production facilities and preparation of production for conversion (oh, how difficult it was to print this word!) Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAP) requires an order for 100 machines (including export), which they have not yet gained. Thus, nothing prevents the IAZ from ordering another dozen or so Su-30CM. But will it be done, and, if so, how many cars will naval aviation get?

Of course, the Kommersant’s statement about the cessation of production of the Su-30CM may turn out to be erroneous, and airplanes of this type will also be produced after 2021. But in what quantity? Until the end of this year, we will have 28 Su-30CM in naval aviation, for example, IAP will produce 12-14 aircraft per year, of which 4-5 (33-35%!) Will be transferred to the Russian Navy. But for the acquisition of 4-x regiments for 30 machines, we will need another 92 aircraft, that is, at such a rate, the program of retrofitting naval aviation will be delayed by 18-23 of the year ...

The situation is somewhat simplified if we form regiments in the composition of two squadrons, that is, on an 24 aircraft. Then we will need 96 aircraft for this, 28 is already there, 68 is left. However, as we can see, even this value is hardly lift for us - in order to ensure such flow even for the next 10 years, we need to transfer the RF Navy via 6-7 Su-30CM annually, but until today the pace was much more modest - 4-5 machines. Of course, sometimes miracles happen, but to rely solely on them would be wrong. Perhaps the following will turn out - the Baltic Fleet and the Northern Fleet will receive a squadron instead of the promised aviation regiment: that is, after the Su-24M is decommissioned, the Baltic 4 will be again lost its status, and in the north, the 279-th mission will have one full squadron and a little bit of Su-33 and the second squadron of Su-30CM, and the Black Sea and Pacific fleets will still receive an 24-aircraft composition for the regiment. Total will be needed for the existing 28 aircraft "just something" 44 machines, and this is somehow more similar to the opportunities we have - transferring the fleet on 5-6 aircraft per year, for years 8-9 look and manage.

True, by the end of these 9 years, that is, by 2028 g, all Su-24Ms will leave the system, MiG-31BM will serve the latest terms, and Su-27СМ and Su-33 will finally become obsolete both morally and physically. Although the latter will deal a little better than the first, as the Su-33 is still newer. In total, it can be assumed that with some acceleration of the existing rates by the end of the twenties, naval aviation of the Russian Navy will have at its disposal:

The Baltic Fleet is a regiment comprising a squadron of Su-35 and a squadron of Su-27М3, as well as a separate squadron of Su-30СМ. Total - 36 aircraft;

Northern Fleet - two shelves, including: 279-th okiap with squadron Su-30SM and squadron Su-33 and 100-th regiment with 22 MIG-29KR / Kubr) and, in addition, a separate squadron Mig-31 . Total -58 machines.

Black Sea Fleet - 43-i Omshap on Su-30СМ (24 machines);

The Pacific Fleet is a regiment of Su-30CMs and a separate squadron of MiG-31BMs (36 machines).


MiG-31BM. Although not the "conqueror" of air superiority, but RVV-SD is ready to use


In total, 154 multifunctional fighters, of which 24 are already physically and / or morally outdated (12 Su-33, 12 Su-27СМ3), and the most modern Su-30СМ and MiG-29КР are still allowed and improved, but only fourth generation fighter. This is still better than we expect to see at the end of 2018 g (125 machines). But how much is this enough for the fleets to solve their tasks?

The American supercarrier has 48 multifunctional fighters as part of the wing, but at any time can increase their number to 60 - in this case, one such ship will outnumber any domestic fleet, including the Northern and Pacific, in terms of the number of tactical aircraft. Nevertheless, given the presence of a “strategic reserve” in the form of a full-blooded regiment, the upgraded Tu-22М3М and the Northern and Pacific Fleets are able to carry out an operation to destroy a single enemy AUG. By swiftly redeploying this regiment to a threatening direction, having provided and supplemented its strike with naval aviation forces, we, theoretically, get good chances to crush a single AUG as part of a supercarrier and escort ships.

The Tu-22М3М, with the newest X-32, is significantly superior in its capabilities to the Soviet regiments, armed even with the newest Tu-22М3 with the X-22 anti-ship missiles.



The main drawback of the Soviet missile-carriers then was the frankly weak missile seeker, which actually required the crew of the aircraft carrying the aircraft to approach the target at a distance from which the missile on the suspension, that is, before the launch, was able to capture the target. As a result, the rocket carriers were forced to enter the AUG air defense zone, breaking through fighter patrols, and even volleys of naval air defense missiles. Of course, the Tu-22М3 could go on the attack at supersonic speeds, minimizing the time spent in the danger zone, but still, the losses were assumed to be very high - up to 80% of attacking aircraft.

With the advent of X-32, the situation has changed significantly. The range of the rocket is indicated at the level of 800-1000 km, while the RCC is equipped with a radically improved GPS that, according to the creators, is capable of operating in a difficult jamming environment. Probably, in a real combat situation, the planes will not use them from the maximum range, but even if they do, the Tu-22М3М will not have to climb deep into the AUG air defense system, respectively, their fighter-cover missions are greatly simplified, and the losses are reduced. However, all of the above does not make the destruction of an enemy ship detachment (especially AUG) easy. Tu-22М3М must be deployed to the airfields from which the attack will be made. X-32, with all its merits, is liquid fuel, which means that it, like X-22, should be refilled before the attack, that is, it must be delivered to the airfield to Tu-22М3М, to refuel, hang it to the planes, dreary and long and during this time it is necessary, of course, to protect the airfield from the effects of the enemy. The attack itself is highly desirable to conduct from two different directions, the enemy can push the ship of the radar patrol forward, and its presence should be taken into account and destruction provided, etc.

In general, such an operation is extremely difficult and for its successful completion is extremely important reconnaissance, the establishment of the exact location of enemy ships. And with this, our naval aviation is not that a problem, but one continuous, large, such a black hole.

The fact is that the maritime reconnaissance and target designation system (SMRTS) or, if you will, EGSONPO (unified state system for lighting surface and underwater conditions) will be truly effective only when it includes all the necessary components, such as: satellite grouping, over-the-horizon radar, stations and airplanes (and, possibly, UAVs) of radio-technical reconnaissance and long-range radar detection, hydroacoustic stations, both stationary and mobile (that is, reconnaissance ships with GUS on board), etc. But today, our satellite constellation is frankly small and cannot guarantee the submission of timely data on enemy ships. ZGRLS are good, but the data they provide require additional exploration, and both of them are generally vulnerable to the enemy’s influence at the initial stage of the conflict. The deployment of hydroacoustic systems is in its infancy, and there is simply no specialized RTR and DRLO aircraft as part of naval aviation. As a matter of fact, apart from a pair of DRLO Ka-31 helicopters and, possibly, several surviving Su-24 reconnaissance aircraft, our fleets do not have specialized reconnaissance aircraft at all.

Of course, there is something in the VKS - according to unverified data, today we have 4 upgraded A-50 and 7 A-50 on the wing (another nine such aircraft are stored). As for the RTR and EW airplanes, we have no more than 20 of these (perhaps no more than 15), if we consider IL-22 of all relevant modifications and IL-214Р. In general, the VKS themselves will not be enough, and rely on the fact that they will share with the fleet ... it is possible, but this is not guaranteed. And, as we have already said, it is unlikely that the crews of the VKS will have the specific skills required by sea pilots.

Thus, the problem is not even a small number of multi-purpose fighters per fleet, but the fact that naval aviation is not able to provide the necessary information space for their successful application. American supercarriers are primarily dangerous by the balance of their air groups - they include DRLO and EW airplanes, which are also capable of conducting electronic reconnaissance. We, in order to provide at least something, will be forced to use either anti-submarine Il-38H, which, after modernization, have a certain intelligence potential, or all the same Su-30CM with the Khibiny, using them as reconnaissance aircraft.

However, such use of multifunctional fighters will distract part of the aircraft, and therefore reduce the already small number of them that a separate fleet will be able to allocate for solving air defense tasks and, if necessary, shock. And what about silt ...



IL-38H, is a deep modernization of the IL-38 with the installation on it of the modern complex "Novel P-38». As a result, the aircraft received unique characteristics of its kind - it is able to conduct radar, thermal imaging, radio hydroacoustic, magnetometric and radio electronic reconnaissance simultaneously, while all these stations are linked into a single complex, which in real time analyzes and summarizes all the information obtained by all the above methods . In general, it is an excellent patrol aircraft and a very formidable enemy for submarines, which is also capable of detecting enemy surface ships, aircraft and ensuring the issuance of the control center for them. But it is extremely doubtful that, on the basis of the anti-submarine aircraft and at the same time preserving and expanding its anti-submarine functions, it was possible to place the RTR and the DRLO, which are suitable for specialized aircraft. As a matter of fact, the majority of sources, noting the presence of a radar system on the IL-38H, provide fairly moderate characteristics of its capabilities — detection of surface targets up to 320 km (that is, not up to a radio horizon even for large targets) and airborne - only 90 km (and according to some information, it is a question of targets with EPR in 3 sq. m.), which, of course, is much inferior to the capabilities of not only A-50U, but also the American deck E-2D “Edwanst Hockey”. There is practically no data on the capabilities of PTR, but it is likely that it also loses to the equipment installed on specialized aircraft.

However, at least in terms of radio intelligence, the Il-38H would be an extremely useful machine if it were not for one “but”. The fact is that it is planned to equip the "Novella P-38" a total of 28 aircraft, and, apparently, this is all IL-38, capable of flying, which we have. In addition, approximately two squadrons (17 aircraft) of Tu-142, which are supposed to be upgraded to the level of Tu-142М3М, will remain in naval aviation (it is unclear how deep this modernization will be and how the capabilities of the upgraded Tu-142М3М will correlate with the IL-XNNXX to be related to the IL-38M to the modernization of the modernized Tu-4М4М. and with the tasks of finding and destroying an 45-generation submarine). Thus, on the XNUMX fleet we have only XNUMX anti-submarine aircraft, which, of course, is absolutely, absolutely not enough. In the event of a large-scale non-nuclear conflict with NATO, we will need all of them to ensure the security of the SSBN, by detecting and destroying enemy atomicines in the areas of deployment of our submarine rocket carriers, and will divert such aircraft to perform other tasks (even as important as the destruction of AUG) perhaps that a crime.

Of course, besides anti-submarine aircraft, the naval aviation has anti-submarine helicopters, but, again, there are few of them - 83 machines. Given that a pair of helicopters at a distance of 200 km from their home base and two combat missions per day per vehicle is required to provide round-the-clock duty, X-NUMX Ka-17 helicopters will be required (the time of combat duty at the specified distance is only 27 hours) The specified number will not be able to provide round-the-clock duty of maximum 1,4 pairs. And not for each of the four fleets, but for all the 5 fleets, which is generally speaking very, very little.

But the most unpleasant thing is not even the fact that today the naval aviation of the Russian Navy does not have specialized RTR and DRLO aircraft, but that such reinforcement is not even supposed. At the same time, the author of this article could not find information that would allow us to hope for an increase in our anti-submarine aviation, which would free up some IL-38Н (although they are not quite suitable for this) to perform reconnaissance and target designation tasks. So far, everything is limited to upgrading the IL-38 to IL-38Н and Ka-27 to Ka-27М, which does not allow us to expect an increase in the fleet of anti-submarine aircraft and helicopters, but almost guarantees its reduction. As it seems, part of the helicopters that are currently combat-ready are too old for it to make sense to invest in their modernization.

And besides ... considering the opposition of enemy AUG, we acted in many ways schematically, analyzing not a real combat situation, but rather some theoretical action. Well, practically ... Suppose in 2028 we were on the threshold of a large-scale conflict with NATO. The American AUS (i.e., 2 AUG) is packed with airplanes (in this case, it’s quite possible to stuff an 90 machine into an aircraft carrier, not counting EW, DRLO and helicopters) and approaches the coast of Norway (a member of NATO). There part of the aircraft flies to the Norwegian airfield network to operate from there. So, the United States has 180 multifunctional fighter jets "Super Hornet" and "Lightning", whose combat radius allows them to operate practically throughout the entire Barents Sea. The Northern Fleet is able, as we have said, to oppose this well if 58 machines, including 12 Su-33 (by that time there will hardly be more on the wing), just as many MiG-31BMs (despite the upgrades air superiority). At the same time, in the interests of American squadrons, X-NUMX-8 DRLO “Advanst Hokai” airplanes and not less (but rather more) “Groolers” will operate, while we will be able to tear off only Il-10Н.

So who will be the hunter in such conditions? Will our anti-submarine aviation be able to operate in the conditions of enemy air domination? It is sad to admit it, but most likely it will be the other way around. And to the enemy "Virginia", aiming our SSBNs, will add a NATO patrol aircraft, scouring in search of our submarine component of nuclear forces and the few covering its multi-purpose submarines.
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74 comments
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  1. +3
    24 September 2018 06: 27
    great article!
    1. +5
      24 September 2018 11: 56
      Donetsk.
      The article is good, but there are mistakes. American aircraft carriers of the "Nimitz" type took on board 90 aircraft (including helicopters, Hockey and anti-submarine) only (!!!) during the ferry to the coast of England (during the Cold War), and at the same time cluttered the flight deck to the point of impossibility. In normal mode, more than 50 vehicles have never been based on Nimitz. Upon arrival in England, all oversized aircraft flew to coastal airfields and were used as a reserve. 90 aircraft on Nimitz are a product of Cold War propaganda, could not fight with so many aircraft on board and were used in this configuration only as a transport of aircraft. This information from veterans of American carrier-based aviation during the times of the same Cold War ... there were such forums until 2014 ...
      Our Soviet TAKRs of the "Kiev" type also never actually took more than 17 aircraft and 12 helicopters ... But by cleverly drawing new numbers for each departure, they convinced American intelligence that they were taking on board up to 69 Yak-38 alone. The Americans have broken all their brains - how are they rammed there (?) ...
      1. +2
        24 September 2018 12: 24
        Donetsk.
        And about the aviation of the Navy (and the VKS, too) ... a very serious problem with the pilots - the aviation schools from the time of Serdyukov were closed and only when Shoigu started recruiting cadets, and when will the first pilots come out of them? And from a lieutenant a full-fledged pilot (not earlier than the captain)? This shortage of flight personnel also hinders the growth of the Air Force fleet, lieutenants are just starting to come into the army and will primarily change veterans who have been detained in service at the request of the President. And only when the number of young pilots will allow to increase the number of aircraft in the regiments and its growth will begin (combat aviation). And the industry is able to issue a larger quantity, but not to store it, but to put new sides ...
        In addition, the MiG plants are ready to launch the MiG-35, up to 36 aircraft per year, the plants have undergone modernization and re-equipment. Will they go into service with the Navy? It is unlikely, but this will allow a larger number of Su-30s, Su-35s and possibly Su-34s to be sent to naval aviation, and the VKS is finally saturated with lighter and cheaper aircraft.
        But the main thing is frames!
        1. +2
          24 September 2018 13: 01
          Quote: bayard
          aviation schools since the time of Serdyukov were closed and only under Shoigu began recruiting cadets

          Here you are greatly exaggerating, the former Minister of Defense is distantly related to the shortage of flight personnel, these problems were laid in the very beginning of the 90s, when whole issues of flight and navigational schools were sent to the national economy.
          Further, those who remained in combat aviation sat on the ground, for fuel. It was a time when they became komeskami with 3rd grade, and actually without flying.
          Quote: bayard
          And only when the number of young pilots will allow to increase the number of aircraft in the regiments and its growth will begin (combat aviation)

          It is not entirely clear that the capabilities of combat aircraft depend on completely different factors.
          1. +2
            24 September 2018 13: 09
            Donetsk.
            Well, of course, the capabilities of military aviation do not depend on the number of young pilots. I talked about the growth in the number of combat aircraft fleets, in the presence of young pilots for its numerical growth. What is now, alas, impossible.
            And the problems of the 90s ... yes, not one aircraft on earth sat, and the fleet did not go to sea, and the monthly maintenance of officers (for up to a year in other places) was not paid ... And the graduates of flight schools were fired in full graduation stock ...
            1. +3
              24 September 2018 13: 26
              Now the training of pilots is proceeding at an accelerated pace and the competition is large, there are more than enough applicants, but of course it will not work out quickly. By the way, according to Soviet standards, it was generally accepted that the training of a pilot was "paid off" by the state about 5-6 years after his graduation from the school. This is an expensive business to train flight personnel.
              1. +3
                24 September 2018 13: 38
                Donetsk.
                Here is all hope for this youth. For a country like Russia, it is necessary, at a minimum, to deploy 10 additional regiments for the aerospace forces and 4-6 regiments of naval aviation.
          2. +2
            25 September 2018 00: 38
            Quote: bober1982
            Further, those who remained in combat aviation sat on the ground, for fuel. It was a time when they became komeskami with 3rd grade, and actually without flying.

            I remember! The 93rd, with the preparation for the 2nd grade, flew 3,5 hours in a year! Recovered to the circle! Spat on everything and from the 94th retired.
      2. +3
        24 September 2018 13: 09
        Quote: bayard
        American aircraft carriers of the "Nimitz" class took on board 90 aircraft (including helicopters, Hawkai and anti-submarine) only (!!!) during the ferry to the coast of England (during the Cold War)

        You turned it down :))) During the Cold War, 90 LA is a full-time air group, and an aircraft carrier can take a lot more to overload.
        Quote: bayard
        In normal mode, more 50 devices were never based on Nimitz.

        They now have a stripped-down air wing - 70-72 LA, and at the same time they are ready to take reinforcements at the Super Hornets squadron.
        Quote: bayard
        This information is from veterans of American carrier-based aircraft from the time of the Cold War ... there were such forums until 2014 ...

        Alas, you will not meet anyone on the Internet :)))
        1. +2
          24 September 2018 13: 27
          Donetsk.
          The forum was on our site a few years ago. The capacity of the Nimitz hangar and the possibility of permanent basing on the deck (storm, cluttering the deck, the possibility of maintenance ...) were very carefully understood. If you do not believe the word, look in the archive, it will be very useful for your publications.
          In the past, I am an officer in the combat directorate of the air defense of the Soviet Union and have been on our website almost since its appearance. My former nicknames "Skoromimokhoduschiy", "Skif-2", "Bayard" ... Windows flew off - it was registered with a new one, the last time - arrest, SBU, exchange, Donetsk ...
          1. +7
            24 September 2018 13: 47
            Quote: bayard
            The forum was on our site a few years ago. The capacity of the Nimitz hangar and the possibility of permanent basing on the deck were examined in great detail

            A few years ago I myself wrote an article on the Nimitz, citing the capacity of hangars and a flight deck from American technical literature.
            https://topwar.ru/31458-nekotorye-osobennosti-ispolzovaniya-palubnoy-aviacii-superavianoscev-tipa-nimitz-ch1.html
            This article caused a very favorable response from our current and former officers of the Navy and Air Force.
            1. +2
              24 September 2018 14: 13
              Donetsk.
              Moreover, Andrey. It was a good article with illustrations (or were they in the comments?). But I still remember the real capacity of Nimitz's hangar from my cadet days, and you won't go into battle with a cluttered deck. So, part of the sides (up to 40 pieces) flew over after the Atlantic crossing (if they went to Europe) to an alternate airfield (mainly in England) and were used as reinforcement, for rotation and to compensate for losses in the event of an armed conflict. About this and in the "Foreign Military Review" they wrote in the specialized (DSP) literature. The Americans have always overestimated the characteristics and combat capabilities of their weapons, letting on a "battle fog" ... however, our brains with "Kiev" also turned their brains on them ... in a word - the Cold War, and "War is a way of deception" ...
              1. +4
                24 September 2018 14: 48
                Quote: bayard
                So, some of the sides (up to 40 units) flew after the Atlantic transition (if they went to Europe) to the alternate aerodrome (mainly in England) and were used as reinforcement, for rotation and to make up for losses in the event of armed conflict

                According to their plans, aircraft carriers were used including as large aviation carriers. They were loaded with airplanes from the belly, according to the scheme that I described in the article and some of them flew to the airfields.
                Quote: bayard
                and with a cluttered deck you won’t go to battle

                True, but one of the typical configurations for pre-launch aircraft implied the presence of 49 aircraft only on the flight deck, not counting the hangar. In which, generally speaking, at least 28 cars were placed. And this is with the good old hefty Tomcat
                1. +4
                  24 September 2018 14: 59
                  Donetsk.
                  It's a deal then ! Already not 90. And even then, the configuration shown by you allows launching from only 2 catapults, and landing is safe when the sides are 12 in the air. Actually, they don’t keep more than 50 cars on board - as the former US deck pilots themselves admit. Flight Safety ...
                  1. 0
                    24 September 2018 18: 44
                    Quote: bayard
                    It's a deal then ! Not 90 anymore. And even then, the configuration you showed allows you to launch only with 2's catapults, and landing is safe when the 12 boards are in the air. Really, they don’t keep more 50 cars on board

                    I'm afraid there was some kind of confusion. They hold, still hold, and can apply, another question is that they can’t place more than fifty aircraft on the flight deck, so for one departure, this is their theoretical limit, in practice it is even lower than 40-45 planes, if without refueling in the air. Therefore, it is natural that when they come to Europe they keep a fifty dollars that they can send to battle, but this does not prevent them from keeping a large number of aircraft in the hangar if necessary. And so on the scheme of 77 machines with Tomcat, it is very far from 50 :)
        2. +1
          25 September 2018 18: 16
          Andrei, according to the article, or rather, according to the Su-30SM, until recently, the Su-30SM that went for the Air Force only arrived in regiments to replace the MiG-29. At the moment, there are no combat regiments in the Air Force on the MiG-29 (MiG-29 is now only in the pulp and paper industry and the center of Kozhedub). The Su-35S, in turn, went to the regiments to replace the Su-27 / 27SM. The question is ripening where the new Su-30SM will go ???
          And there are not so many answers:
          1. Moscow Region will violate practice and the Su-30SM will go to replace the Su-24, Su-27. (Which is also doubtful since the Su-34s are operating stably, and they form new regiments from the Su-24, Marinovka, now Shatalovo, if you take to replace simple Su-27s, there are also questions, because there aren’t a lot of them left in Chkalovsk, Belbek, Khotilovo, Krymsk, that is, it seems like the Su-35S are doing quite well with their replacement and again, in 2017, the modern Su-27SM3 )
          2.MO will begin the formation of new IAPs (in principle, it is possible to reconstruct the Steppe (although ShAP was supposedly promised there), again infa slipped to East 2018 that they used Jida as a jump airfield (Su-34 was temporarily based)).
          3.MO add the 3rd squadron to Domna, Millerovo, Kursk (in principle it is possible, but not long ago there was news that Domna would receive the Su-34, which is also strange, there are 2 IAEs and 2 ShAEs there).
          4. MO will drive the bulk of the Su-30SM to the fleet.
          In principle, all versions are possible, we will wait.
          1. 0
            27 September 2018 00: 08
            Donetsk.
            Option number 4 looks more harmonious. But without the formation of new regiments in the near future, there’s no way to do anything once the flight universities provide pilots to the VKS.
      3. +4
        24 September 2018 14: 33
        Quote: bayard
        American aircraft carriers of the "Nimitz" class took on board 90 aircraft (including helicopters, Hockey and anti-submarine) only (!!!) during the ferry to the coast of England (during the Cold War), and at the same time cluttered the flight deck to the point of impossibility. In the normal mode, more than 50 vehicles have never been based on Nimitz.

        Hmmm ... at the end of the Cold War, 78 aircraft and 6 helicopters were nominally part of the Nimitz air wing:
        2 IAE: 12 Tomkats or 12 Hornets each - a total of 24 fighters
        2 UDAE: 12 "Corsairs" or 12 "Corsairs" each - a total of 24 percussion vehicles
        1 all-weather UDAE: 12 "Intruders" - a total of 12 all-weather strikers
        1 AE AWACS: 4-6 "Hokaev" - a total of 4-6 AWACS vehicles
        1 EW AE: 4 "Prowlers" - a total of 4 EW vehicles
        1 AE PLO: 10 "Vikings" - a total of 10 PLO vehicles
        1 VLAE PLO: 6 Sea Kings - total 6 PLO helicopters
        1. +1
          24 September 2018 15: 07
          Donetsk.
          That's right, this is their staffing list ... but for the transfer to the duty station. If this is D. Vostok, then an excess of them (depending on the tasks assigned) flew to the air base in Japan, and the aircraft carrier itself hung out in the Sea of ​​Japan (for example) with an air wing that did not contradict its flight safety numbers. It was the same in the North Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea.
    2. 0
      24 September 2018 12: 25
      In addition, all long-range aviation works in the interests of the Navy. TU95 has always been tasked with tracking and countering AUGs, and had the appropriate weapons. hi
      1. +5
        24 September 2018 15: 06
        Quote: NIKNN
        In addition, all long-range aviation works in the interests of the Navy

        In peacetime exercises.
        In the event of a war with the use of ACG, Long-Range Aviation will either wind circles in the air or sit in readiness at the airfields of a jump - with full drums and pylons of light and heat. Waiting for the moment. when the very existence of the state is jeopardized - and it will be possible to go to launch areas.
  2. -3
    24 September 2018 08: 21
    What specific skills do morlets have that no normal Air Force pilots have? Is it possible to dive into the water in a special way?

    Take away all the navy fighters nafig. It is necessary to look for submarines, let them search, and they will still not be able to carry out the tasks of the Air Force.
    1. 0
      24 September 2018 08: 44
      Quote: EvilLion
      Is there something special to dive into?

      Yes, that’s right, they do it better.
    2. +3
      24 September 2018 09: 51
      for example, analysis of target marks against a water surface.
      and fighters are needed just to cover the PLO, both ships and aircraft, otherwise they will melt and beat.
      1. +1
        24 September 2018 10: 44
        In the Soviet Air Force, pilots (crews) underwent a mandatory "sea" program, there were some peculiarities in the technique of piloting and navigation over the sea. These training flights were enough to feel confident, there were no problems.
        Of course, there was no analysis of marks from targets on the background of the water surface, what was there to analyze - these goals looked very good, against the background of water.
        1. -1
          24 September 2018 11: 09
          I remember the case when a fighter flew to the Baltic states, and flew over the sea.
          not so long ago, by the way.
    3. +3
      24 September 2018 11: 38
      Now I don’t know, but in the second world the usefulness of "land" pilots over the sea was extremely low: problems with navigation (the navigator could not navigate by the picture below), problems with identifying ships (not only class, but even sizes), problems with attacking ships (a maneuvering target protected by anti-aircraft guns, I'm not talking about masthead bombardment and torpedo bombers).
  3. -4
    24 September 2018 08: 22
    The hero in the infantry: I went to bayonets more than once, destroyed dozens of enemy soldiers, killed the commander.
    The hero in the tank troops: He spent a lot of battles, destroyed heaps of enemy equipment and manpower, died, to the last, leading the battle in a wounded car.
    Hero in the Air Force: made hundreds of combat missions, shot down a mass of enemy aircraft, or conducted dozens of ground target attacks, died, knocking down an enemy bomber with a ram after exhausting the ammunition.
    The hero in the navy: he drank the whole war in the port, went out to sea a couple of times, fired at someone, returned with nothing, after defeat he heroically sank his ship (and no, it's not just about ours, it's international).

    This is the question of whether we need to tear off such a valuable resource as combat aircraft from the air force and it is not clear where to transfer them.
    1. +8
      24 September 2018 09: 00
      Quote: EvilLion
      The hero in the navy: he drank the whole war in the port, went out to sea a couple of times, fired at someone, returned with nothing, after defeat he heroically sank his ship (and no, it's not just about ours, it's international).

      For example, the battleship Empress Maria spent 407 days out of 125 days in the fleet at sea. Came out a couple of times, yes. Despite the fact that it was not considered a heroic ship. I don’t even want to remember about the KON of British ships in WWII. And so, at your leisure, read about the US Navy "released a couple of times" in the wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Maybe after this, the desire to copy and paste nonsense from the comment into the comment will decrease
      1. +2
        24 September 2018 10: 46
        125 days from 407 is, by the way, a lot of concepts of wars in general, is it true how with participation in battles? During the years of WWII in the Pacific theater on the 1 American fighter, the 40 days of participation in battles per year were obtained. In Vietnam, this figure rose to 240. It is not surprising that people started from the continuous stress to go to the roof.

        Unfortunately, sarcasm is never born from scratch, and first of all, the Battle of Jutland is recalled as the only significant episode of the battleships of WWII battleships, the inglorious Kuzi campaign to the shores of Syria, with a higher accident rate when flying from the deck than when launching space rockets. "there are 3 largest and most useless things in the world: the Egyptian pyramids, the Great Wall of China and the battleship" Yamato " the genitals, and vice versa, might not have worked if they won then, even if they lost the battleship, and there are a lot of such examples. ”Apparently, the activity of the ship is inversely proportional to its size.

        At the same time, drowning their own ship in the absence of any results, was simply elevated to a cult in the fleet. No, in the army with this, in general, everything was always in perfect order, especially since the award system is often designed to support the relatives of the dead, and it turns out that Peshkov is not lucky, he is GRF, because it gives his family a lot of benefits, and when our platoon in Syria distributed a lyuley, who tried to press them to the bogeles, and left without corpses, with the 5 wounded, it goes without saying, and the reward is smaller, since all of them are alive. But in the army, at least for the tank that was blown up during the retreat, they did not stroke the head, on the contrary, strictly, they asked what broke down with the car? And why did you, the goat, break down, but Ivanov did not?

        By the way, I mentioned the battleships in the same Vietnam in my article. But it turns out that the 50on the monster lazily rolled over from wave to wave, sometimes giving half a dozen shots at infantry requests. Involuntarily there are doubts about the justification.
        1. +3
          24 September 2018 17: 16
          Quote: EvilLion
          the battle of Jutland is primarily remembered as the only significant episode of the battles of the battleships of the WWI

          And why was he the only one? Yes, because some people built such a fleet that, after a single battle with him, the enemy considered it best to evade further battles. He went to sea - received intelligence about Grand Fleet exit - turned back to the base. smile
          In addition, the cost of the PMV fleet is usually greatly exaggerated. EMNIP, the British army in the PMV for three days produced shells costing one battleship.
          Quote: EvilLion
          This miracle of Japanese shipbuilding even in the battle of Gaudalcanal, where the fate of the war would be decided, and after losing to the Japanese, everything went to the female genital organ, and vice versa, maybe it would not have gone if they had won, even if they had lost the battleship, and there are many such examples.

          The fate of the war was decided even earlier - when the IJN lost 4 of the 6 pre-war large decks. Given the pace of putting these decks into the US and Japan, Guadalcanal has little to decide.
          In addition, judging by the calculations on the combinedfleet, even one Yamato in the Guadalcanal region might simply not have enough fuel for regular use.
          1. +1
            26 September 2018 08: 21
            I will not say about the WWI, however, after it I had to negotiate strongly so that I could not stay without pants in the navy, but I got a review of the cost of the WWII ships in tanks of those years https://midnike.livejournal.com/46931.html

            Yes, and the voiced prices for modern ships along the regiment of fighters at the frigate trough, somehow also arouse a strong desire to disperse the fleet nafig, building the strongest Air Force instead.

            Went out to sea — got intelligence about the Grand Fleet's exit — turned back into base.


            This did not prevent the submarines from drowning the Britons in batches.

            Flying according to the calculations on the combinedfleet, even one Yamato in the Guadalcanal region in Japan could simply not have enough fuel for regular use


            Then there was no need to build it.

            when IJN lost 4 from 6 pre-war large decks


            This is their first fail when, out of the blue 1 and 2, the mob of the boules-boules connection was made. But this is only a lost fight in the open sea, such fights can not lead anywhere, if the enemy does not take advantage of success, Gaudalkanal is a direct attempt to break through the Japanese protective perimeter, and she succeeded.
            1. 0
              26 September 2018 19: 24
              Quote: EvilLion
              Then there was no need to build it.

              So who knew that the crippled and lifeless Yankees would end up with their horn - and instead of surrendering after the first defeats, they would suddenly engage in a war of annihilation.
              According to the initial plan of operations, a meat grinder near the hell on the pies, in the Guadalcanal area, was not provided. smile
              Quote: EvilLion
              But this is only a lost fight in the open sea, such fights can not lead anywhere if the enemy does not take advantage of success

              And the enemy could not have enjoyed success for another year and a half - time worked for the United States. How many new ABs were laid in Japan? And how much in the US? By the end of 1943, the Yankees would have accumulated a "superag" - and they could begin to inflict justice and democracy. Until that time, it would be possible to continue the "hit-and-run" tactics, which were directly prescribed by the pre-war War Plan Orange for the period preceding the concentration of the US fleet forces in the theater of operations.
  4. +3
    24 September 2018 08: 28
    So, the United States has 180 multifunctional fighter jets "Super Hornet" and "Lightning", whose combat radius allows them to operate practically throughout the entire Barents Sea. The Northern Fleet is able, as we have said, to oppose this well if 58 machines


    “Private Smith, imagine 100 enemy soldiers are coming at you, what will you do?”
    “I will shoot them with my rifle, sir!”
    - Well, imagine that you are 300 enemy soldiers.
    “I will shoot them with my rifle, sir!”
    - And if 700 enemy soldiers are coming at you?
    “I will shoot them with my rifle, sir!”
    “Excuse me, but where will you get so many ammo for your rifle?”
    - In the same place where you took so many enemy soldiers, sir!
  5. -1
    24 September 2018 08: 37
    Conclusions 1 large surface ships are meaningless and defenseless they do not need to be built, three frigates to the ocean are enough.
    2 it is imperative to increase coast-based aviation and the aerospace forces in general.
    3 it is imperative to increase coastal air defense to protect bases and ports, there is little hope for VKS and especially for surface ships.
    4 in connection with the betrayal of Yakovlev Gorbachev Yeltsin, Russia significantly lagged behind NATO in economic terms, and rivalry can only be balanced by the threat of strategic nuclear forces
    5 An economic and military alliance with China should be seen as a medium-term reality.
    6 the use of surface ships, AWACS, PLO aircraft, and even to a certain extent YES will inevitably run into a lack of fighter cover.
    1. +1
      24 September 2018 08: 47
      I see no reason not to have an economic union with China, if it is profitable for us, but at least with Chad. Militarily, if there is a common enemy, there will be a military alliance. If there is no enemy, then NATO, even in a formal alliance, cannot really agree now. Churchill won was ready to be friends with the devil if Hitler invades hell.
  6. 0
    24 September 2018 08: 48
    One of the new types of weapons for naval aviation may be a vertical take-off and landing diskette for naval aviation, similar to a spinner.

    The mass of the non-rotating part without fuel and payload is 59 tons
    The rotating part, painted blue, with a maximum diameter of 52m and a mass of 80tn
    fuel mass in the rotating part 85tn
    mass of the rotating part of the diskette with fuel 165tn
    mass of non-rotating part of diskette with fuel 176tn
    fuel mass in the non-rotating part of the diskette 43tn
    mass of non-rotating part of diskette without fuel 133tn
    payload weight 74tn
    341tn full take-off weight
    The diameter at the outer ends of the extended blades is 52m - like the wingspan of a B-2
    The diskette is intended for placement on aircraft carriers and coastal airfields. But an amphibious version of the diskette is also possible.
    To drive a disk with blades in rotation on the rotating part of the diskette, two vertically located double-circuit turbofan engines (TRD) with rotary nozzles, as well as two horizontally located turbo-fan engines on the stationary central part of the diskette are used. The air on the turbojet air intakes on the rotating part of the diskette is fed with a scapular rim from the turbojet air intakes on the non-rotating part of the diskette through a horizontal bearing:

    Vertical blade of a common fan for turbocharging the turbojet air intakes on the rotating part of the diskette.

    Open rotary flap flaps leading the blades into rotation during vertical take-off and landing.

    Air duct to vertical turbojet engines.
    1. +6
      24 September 2018 09: 20
      You can even not look at the "drawings", it is enough that our respected engineer does not know how to write the dimension "ton".
      1. +4
        24 September 2018 17: 18
        You also ask for documentation on ESKD. laughing
    2. +4
      24 September 2018 09: 52
      maybe it's better to do macrame? love
      1. -1
        24 September 2018 19: 01
        You can also put inside the diskette in the region of the ring bearing a retractable docking fuel assembly in the form of a rod-pipe with a sealing system at the end. The unit joins the volumes of the fuel tanks and is intended for the overflow of fuel between the fuel tanks of the rotating and non-rotating parts of the diskette in horizontal flight, when the rotating part pulled in the blades and does not rotate.
    3. Andruher
      0
      April 20 2019 05: 34
      How serious is this? At what stage of work?
  7. +2
    24 September 2018 09: 44
    The author correctly noted the need to ensure combat operations of 120 (in the future) naval fighter reconnaissance from over-the-horizon radars, space satellites, RTV air defense; it is necessary to coordinate any operation for interaction with the videoconferencing; and most importantly, if even the modern Tu 22М3 group (VKS) and the more modern the MiG-31BM group (Navy) are not capable of fulfilling the typical task of destroying an AUG, is there any point in isolating fighters in general as part of naval aviation.
    It can really form a combat-ready squad from the Tu-22М3, and Su-35, one of the tasks of which will be the fight against AUG. And the concern for basing them on a seaside theater will lie with the VKS and not the Navy. Still, maneuvering aircraft is easier than the AUG.
  8. +4
    24 September 2018 09: 47
    Andrey, I always read with great interest what you are writing about the fleet. But in this publication you have confused me in some places. what Please do not count for fussy, but where do the firewoods come from regarding the availability of modernized Su-27CM / М3 at BF? And it seems to me that you are too optimistic about the anti-ship capabilities of the Tu-22М3М. Yes, and how many cars brought to this level?
    Even assuming that the anti-ship missile X-32 is really adopted and will massively delivered to the troops (which I doubt), three dozen capable missile carriers who are all based in the European part of the country will not make the weather. Besides:
    With the advent of X-32, the situation has changed significantly. The range of the rocket is indicated at the level of 800-1000 km ...
    Explain, please, who and how will target designate when firing at the specified range?
    1. +2
      24 September 2018 12: 55
      Quote: Bongo
      Even if we assume that the X-32 anti-ship missiles are indeed adopted and will be mass-supplied to the troops (which I doubt)

      If I am not mistaken, the main source of information on the Kh-32 is the academician of artillery sciences, Mr. Sivkov. I don’t remember seeing somewhere the information with reference to the official source, the order of adoption, that’s sho.
      Although, taking into account the history of the Su-57 and Almaty, adoption by now does not always convince.
    2. +1
      24 September 2018 13: 17
      Donetsk.
      Apparently, targeting will be imposed on the new satellite constellation (in preparation) and long-range aerial pilots.
      In addition, the Il-20 \ 22 is being modernized, the RER Tu-214 was tested, the A-50 is being modernized ... While the Tu-22M3M and MiG-31 with Daggers are suitable, perhaps the "target designators" will catch up ... without them there is no way ...
      1. +1
        24 September 2018 13: 24
        Quote: bayard
        Apparently, targeting will be imposed on the new satellite constellation (in preparation) and long-range aerial pilots.
        In addition, the Il-20 \ 22 is being modernized, the RER Tu-214 was tested, the A-50 is being modernized ... While the Tu-22M3M and MiG-31 with Daggers are suitable, perhaps the "target designators" will catch up ... without them there is no way ...

        Forgive me for the indiscreet question, what is your VUS, where did you serve? Most of the writing you write is impossible to comment on ... wassat
        1. +4
          24 September 2018 13: 53
          Donetsk.
          VVKURE-air defense of Vilnius. He served in the 19 Army Air Defense, Transcaucasia, 2 rtbr. Combat command officer, up to 1991
          Knowledge of the means of aerospace attack of a potential enemy was part of my direct duties, including the US naval and carrier-based aviation. We knew the real capacity of aircraft carriers even then. And the propaganda about the "standard" load of Nimitz 90 liters. , the same as the maximum speed of the F-111 at 2650 km / h ... and of course they flew to the moon ...
          1. +4
            24 September 2018 14: 26
            Quote: bayard
            VVKURE-air defense of Vilnius. He served in the 19 Army Air Defense, Transcaucasia, 2 rtbr. Combat command officer, up to 1991

            Wonderful! I served in the 11 th AA, but I quit later.
            Quote: bayard
            Knowledge of the means of aerospace attack of a potential enemy was part of my direct duties, including the US naval and carrier-based aviation.

            If so, tell me, colleague, how many RTR aircraft do we have in each fleet and what are their real capabilities for detecting AUG and issuing target designation to anti-ship weapons, and how will this information be transmitted directly to the consumer? What is the real performance of the satellite constellation capable of tracking the AUG and how many long-range drones do we have and of what type? Maybe I don't know something about the state of affairs in the Far East, but please remind me when the last time we saw the A-50 at our Far Eastern airfields and what are the real capabilities of these machines to track down the AUG? Since when did the "Dagger" become an ASM?
            All this I am writing with only one purpose. Friends, let's talk about what is, and not engage in fantasy.
            1. +5
              24 September 2018 14: 47
              Donetsk.
              Well, of course, all these means exist only in PERSPECTIVE, and they were talking about it. Neither the satellite constellation (there are only plans about it), nor the heavy unmanned aircraft adopted for service (they are testing, but when they will be), nor the proper amount of reconnaissance aircraft (but the Il-20 \ 22 was dragged for modernization, like the Tu-142), and The dagger "has not yet been completed in trial operation and for sea targets ... But we are talking about the future. In five years, you see, there will be enough pilots in aviation, and specialized aircraft will come out of modernization ... And about the A-50 in the Far East ... there was an attempt to use it in exercises, but then nothing came of it - neither correct operation, nor pairing with ground means - a friend told me, he even tried to help them ... But that was a long time ago, since then they have been trying to modernize them ... but the main thing is personnel, first of all engineering ... and with them ... trouble. We need a new generation of young cadres - those who are INTERESTED, who will LEARN ... and to have someone to teach ...
    3. 0
      24 September 2018 13: 22
      Quote: Bongo
      Please do not consider it as jerking, but where did the wood come from regarding the presence of upgraded Su-27СМ / M3 on the BF?

      Did I write that they were there? we are talking a little about something else - that the 689th giap was withdrawn from the BF, shrunk to the size of a squadron, and in this form was returned to the fleet
      http://eurasia.expert/vozdushnyy-shchit-kaliningradskoy-oblasti-istoriya-i-sovremennost/
      according to other sources, they did not withdraw him from the Navy, they simply disbanded the regiment due to the lack of vehicles.
      So now there are plans (following the same link and with the same words in other places) to recreate the 689-giap and equip its Su-27 with modernized ones, and later even the Su-35 squadron. That is, these are plans
      Quote: Bongo
      And it seems to me that you are overly optimistic about the anti-ship capabilities of the Tu-22М3М. Yes, and how many cars brought to this level?

      Well, why? First, we do not assess the situation as of now, but as a situation after 10 years. The second is that by this time, and even much earlier, the Tu-22М3М should be 30, that is, half of the current number is upgraded, they are like 60
      The anti-ship capabilities are very high if they give the TsU - the X-32 flies outside the range of the air defense system, and if it really has an 5 speed of thousands km plus, well, it’s hard to catch it on 40 km aircraft
      Quote: Bongo
      Explain, please, who and how will target designate when firing at the specified range?

      I seem to have written
      In general, such an operation is extremely difficult and for its successful completion is extremely important reconnaissance, the establishment of the exact location of enemy ships. And with this, our naval aviation is not that a problem, but one continuous, large, such a black hole.

      request
      1. +2
        24 September 2018 13: 59
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Did I really write that they are there in stock?

        The air force of the Baltic Fleet until recently consisted of a squadron of the Su-24M and a squadron of the Su-27 (probably modernized)
        This is also unlikely:
        According to the statements of the responsible persons made in January of 2018 g, “there is an opinion” to reanimate the renowned 689 th giap by equipping it with Su-27CM and СМ3
        Andrew, you cannot but know that we have no Su-27 suitable for conversion to Su-27CM and an export reserve for the construction of Su-27СМ3.
        Where do these cars come from? request
        As for the Su-35C, then this machine is more suitable for winning air superiority and interception. The fleet more need double Su-30CM.
        Here is my innocent look too optimistic:
        Nevertheless, given the presence of a “strategic reserve” in the form of a full-blooded regiment, the upgraded Tu-22М3М and the Northern and Pacific Fleets are able to carry out an operation to destroy a single enemy AUG. By swiftly redeploying this regiment to a threatening direction, having provided and supplemented its strike with naval aviation forces, we, theoretically, get good chances to crush a single AUG as part of a supercarrier and escort ships.
        Taking into account the fact that 2-3 machines will be upgraded in the year, sharpened to the same for YES tasks, we are unlikely to have a full-fledged regiment. I do not know what opportunities there are in the Federation Council and the Black Sea Fleet, but in the Far East it is perhaps not realistic to implement the scenario described by you.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Well, why? First, we do not assess the situation as of now, but as a situation after 10 years. The second is that by this time, and even much earlier, the Tu-22М3М should be 30, that is, half of the current number is upgraded, they are like 60

        I would like to believe that in 10 years, everything will change for the better, but my experience suggests otherwise. Regarding the state of the park Tu-22М3, then you should talk to Sergei Ivanovich about this.
        1. +2
          24 September 2018 14: 11
          Quote: Bongo
          probably modernized

          Yes, just because I don’t know what is in service with this squadron
          Quote: Bongo
          Andrew, you cannot but know that we have no Su-27 suitable for conversion to Su-27CM and an export reserve for the construction of Su-27СМ3.
          Where do these cars come from?

          Only the transfer from the VKS, which is not entirely unbelievable, if the corresponding regiments transfer to the same Su-30СМ, Su-35
          Quote: Bongo
          Given the fact that 2-3 machines will be upgraded in a year, also sharpened for YES tasks, it is unlikely that we will have a full-fledged regiment.

          Well, 30 machines are going to be modernized according to plans, but I think it’s according to plans - of course, plans sometimes do not come true, who argues
          Quote: Bongo
          This is in my inexperienced opinion too optimistic

          There is a keyword
          Quote: Bongo
          we, theoretically, we get good chances to defeat a single AUG

          And what will happen in practice, I describe further, explaining that for such a rout we need intelligence, which we do not have
        2. 0
          25 September 2018 18: 36
          Quote: Bongo
          that we did not have Su-27 suitable for conversion to Su-27SM and an export reserve for the construction of Su-27SM3.
          Where do these cars come from?

          Excuse me, where did the last year 4 Su-27SM3 come from (there is a photo and where did they go, is it Krymsk)? And where will this year 6 Su-27SM3 come from (according to Borisov).
          1. +1
            26 September 2018 13: 24
            Quote: Sergei1982
            Sorry, but where did the last year 4 Su-27CM3 come from (there are photos and where did they go, is it Krymsk)?

            Sorry, I am not obliged to educate visitors to the VO website. Information relating to the construction of the Su-27CM / CM3 at KnAaz is freely available. What Borisov says remains on his conscience.
  9. 0
    24 September 2018 10: 18
    Andrei, as always, put everything on the shelves. smile
    traditionally during discussions, two important aspects of the war on sea reconnaissance and the real effectiveness of anti-ship missiles are underestimated.
    For an AUG attack, you need not only information about the approximate AUG location area, which theoretically can be obtained from ZARLS (and this is far from simple - they are too vulnerable to strikes, have low accuracy and noise immunity, they are simply deceived by imitators, it’s rather a peacetime weapon) or from satellites (of which there are few and they don’t work in real time, it’s possible for Patriot to work directly with satellites), we need accurate information about the location of the AOG (otherwise it is impossible to organize an attack from two or three directions, and the effectiveness of the attack from one direction is not very high), as well as about the composition and current location of all the ships of the group at the time of the impact, otherwise it is likely that the RCC will either go to some supply vessels or amphibious assaults or calmly fly over Arly Burke, representing goals that are not very complex.
    That is, not only is it necessary to detect the AUG, but also to track the location of all its ships for several hours, until they prepare attack planes and weapons and until they reach (if they do not strike at their airfield, which cannot be excluded, the airfield can be found much easier than AUG), constantly adjusting plans for the direction of strikes. The radio horizon from a height of 10 km is about 400 km, that is, the AWACS aircraft needs to approach at least 300 km, or even 200, and the clock is in this position. Is it real?
    A separate topic is the real effectiveness of anti-ship missiles against a modern large warship. The current practice of real conflicts shows that anti-ship missile systems are effective in landfill conditions or in a surprise attack, while in the case of using electronic warfare by an combat-ready enemy, the effectiveness of anti-ship missile systems drops sharply. Actually, I specifically looked for cases when the anti-ship missile system would fall into time using the electronic warhead of the modern anti-ship missile system or a newer ship, and could not find a single reliable one. But the cases when the RCC missed in such a situation is full.
    The conclusion from this is simple - it is clear that you can’t throw AUGs with hats, you need comprehensive and large-scale measures (the AUG itself is organized that way), and no single wunderwaffe taken alone will help.
    1. +3
      24 September 2018 10: 50
      The real effectiveness of the CRP?
      And the Britons after the Falklands will tell. And how the aircraft carrier burns even from one NURS, everyone saw. The survivability of a "kerosene barrel" type ship cannot be taken seriously.
      1. 0
        24 September 2018 10: 57
        in the Falkland War, not a single anti-ship missile got into a combat-ready combat ship.
        Two cases of Exocetons being captured in warships were in their ready state - the radar was turned off in Sheffield so as not to interfere with the telephone conversation, for which the commander was later tried, in the second case the surprise of the attack was provided by an attack from the coastal installation - it was built by the local Argentine Kulibin, the British had no idea about this.
        1. +2
          24 September 2018 13: 08
          Oh, oh, the sky-ready were in battle. Oh oh oh.
          1. +5
            24 September 2018 13: 57
            Quote: EvilLion
            Oh, oh, the sky-ready were in battle. Oh oh oh.

            In what battle? :)))) "Sheffield" was in touch with London, all of its radars were cut down so as not to interfere, and 2 ships accompanying it managed to do everything that was necessary. Atlantic Conveyor - A non-combat ship its missiles captured only after their capture was dropped by warships that were firing missiles. And only in one case, the anti-ship missile system applied from the ground installation worked normally.
            Quote: EvilLion
            And how the aircraft carrier burns even from one NURS, everyone saw. The survivability of a "kerosene barrel" type ship cannot be seriously considered.

            In fact, this is a very difficult target. And about one NURS - this is nothing more than a biting phrase. However, if you like to be sophisticated in verbalism, then "Mutsu" and one NURS did not take. Just what does this mean? :)))
            1. +1
              26 September 2018 08: 28
              Sorry, but NURS was not even an enemy. At the same time, over the past decades, I do not know of cases that ground airfields, where, if desired, it is always possible to at least isolate fuel from aircraft and power supplies, an emergency occurred due to the fact that the starting chain was short-circuited and over a hundred corpses. But the aircraft carriers are burning great. In addition, the Belknap incident shows that no hard shells are needed to make a hole in an aircraft carrier; a soft boat was enough to punch the hole and fill the boat with kerosene.
              1. +1
                26 September 2018 15: 02
                Quote: EvilLion
                Sorry, but Nurs was not even an enemy

                On Mutsu, and this was not :))))
                Quote: EvilLion
                At the same time, over the past decades, I don’t know of cases where ground airfields, where you can always isolate at least fuel from airplanes and power supply units, occur because of the fact that the launch chain has shortened and more than a hundred corpses.

                Alas, accidents at sea are many times more dangerous than on land. This is a universally recognized and indisputable fact. But people are fighting, and fighting at sea, including that gives those who have the Navy undeniable advantages
                Quote: EvilLion
                In addition, the Belknap incident shows that no hard shells are needed to make a hole in an aircraft carrier, a soft boat was enough.

                Yeah. Weight ... How many thousand tons? :)
                1. +1
                  26 September 2018 15: 25
                  If a ton of aluminum foil is brought down on you, then you will simply press down, but it will not pierce.

                  Alas, accidents at sea are many times more dangerous than on land. This is a generally accepted and undeniable fact.


                  And this also makes the inevitable consequences of the combat losses of aircraft carriers, which was also observed by WWII. Under Midway, the last American pilots who went into a successful attack, have already seen blazing ships in full, although the first bombs had just fallen.
    2. +4
      24 September 2018 13: 24
      Quote: Avior
      That is, not only is it necessary to detect the AOG, but also to track the location of all its ships for several hours

      This last one is not absolutely necessary, but the reconnaissance of the target just before the strike is needed like air hi
  10. +1
    24 September 2018 12: 44
    and approaches the coast of Norway (NATO member). There, part of the aircraft flies to the Norwegian airfield network to operate from there. In total, the US has 180 Super Hornet and Lightning multi-functional fighters, whose combat radius allows them to operate practically over the entire Barents Sea.
    In this case, you need to have S-400 and Buk-M3. Well, the MiG-35, of course, to quickly knock out their desire to fly.
    1. +3
      24 September 2018 13: 25
      Quote: Tektor
      In this case, you need to have C-400 and Buk-M3.

      They can’t walk on the sea :)))
      1. +1
        24 September 2018 15: 50
        Well, what are their years, to learn bully
      2. 0
        24 September 2018 15: 51
        why do they need the sea, if there are shores for them, they will protect the bases
  11. +1
    25 September 2018 05: 08
    The MF-31 never was on the SF, even those that were previously in the Air Force in Kamchatka, it was they who were sent to the Pacific Fleet much later. The Su-30 is also unclear where it came from that they are on the SF?!, Especially in the ship’s regiment (what do they have to do with the decks ?!). They are supplied only to the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet. Well, about the Tu-142- at the Pacific Fleet, there is only one incomplete squadron (6-7 sides), moreover, with the MR, so there are very big doubts that the Tu-142mr-10pcs. And Tu-142mz-17pcs., This is probably again counted all that are not sawn
    1. 0
      25 September 2018 15: 41
      Quote: sid20003
      The MF-31 has never been on the SF, even those that were previously in the Air Force in Kamchatka, it was they who were sent to the Pacific Fleet much later

      It seems like they appeared, in the number of squadrons, based in Monchegorsk, and it is just like the fleet aviation. And as for Kamchatka - it is
      Quote: sid20003
      Su-30 is also unclear where it came from that they are on the SF?!, Especially in the ship’s regiment (what do they have to do with the decks ?!).

      None, however, they entered the 279 giap. See the bmpd blog about 2016 of the year https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2351574.html
      As reported on the page of the Northern Fleet newspaper "On guard of the Arctic" on the VKontakte web resource, on December 28, 2016, the first batch of the newest multifunctional Su-30SM fighters arrived at the Northern Fleet.

      And with photos, which is typical.
      In general, as of 2016, 15 Su-30СМ were received by the fleet, of which 12 - on the World Cup, 1 - on the BF and 2 - on the SF (onboard 22 and 23 blue)
      Quote: sid20003
      Well, about the Tu-142- on the Pacific Fleet there is only one incomplete squadron (6-7 boards), moreover, together with Mr, therefore there are very big doubts that the Tu-142mp-10pc and the Tu-142mz-17pc.

      Here is really not Copenhagen, I did not find anything, data from the wiki with a link to TSAMTO and military balance, and TSAMTO was limited to "more than 20". Thanks for the info!
  12. +1
    27 September 2018 20: 10
    The Tu-22М3М, with the newest X-32, is significantly superior in its capabilities to the Soviet regiments, armed even with the newest Tu-22М3 with the X-22 anti-ship missiles.


    In the Soviet regiments (YES at least) there was a Tu-16P squadron. And TBAP from MRAP was not just a name different.

    frankly weak gos missiles


    And what other GOS capable of capturing an aircraft carrier on D of the order of 360 km?

    The missile range is indicated at the level of 800-1000 km


    2 times further than the PNA sees.

    need to be delivered to the airfield to Tu-22M3M


    He will pick it up. When they flew to Akhtubinsk for launches, they took with them one empty 107 under the fuselage and refuel it in place.

    dreary and long


    Here, alas, nothing can be done, with large aircraft it’s always like that.
    1. 0
      28 September 2018 01: 25
      Quote: Lozovik
      In the Soviet regiments (YES at least) there was a Tu-16P squadron.

      Yes, but what do you mean by that?
      Quote: Lozovik
      And what other GOS capable of capturing an aircraft carrier on D of the order of 360 km?

      So X-22 didn’t have such capabilities.
      Quote: Lozovik
      Here, alas, nothing can be done, with large aircraft it’s always like that.

      Accordingly, you need cover.
      1. 0
        1 October 2018 21: 44
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Yes, but what do you mean by that?


        Provided more or less normal electronic warfare.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So X-22 didn’t have such capabilities.


        And what opportunities did you think she had?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Accordingly, you need cover.


        Which and from what?
  13. 0
    2 October 2018 14: 32
    Very interesting article.
    Nevertheless, I would like to discuss the following theses of the author:
    1) The base of the NATO strike group at bases in Norway.
    1a) The entire Scandinavian peninsula is within the range of both short and medium-range ballistic missiles and Caliber missiles equipped, including special. warheads and facilities on the Scandinavian Peninsula, respectively, are extremely vulnerable to a retaliatory strike.
    1b) Aircraft taking off from Norwegian airfields and capable of fighting for air supremacy over the base / entry areas for the deployment of our SSBNs are located in the affected area of ​​the S-400 anti-aircraft systems located on our territory.
    2) Lack of AWACS in the fleet.
    2a) A-50 and A-50U VKS are deleted because "And, as we have already said, it is unlikely that the crews of the VKS will have the specific skills necessary for naval pilots." What skills the A-50 operator does not have to see the order of the aircraft carrier - I do not understand.
    2b) I also do not understand why all MIG-31s ​​are deleted.
    - The range of detection by them of objects such as a fighter (EPR 5 sq m) - up to 280 km, aircraft with EPR> 20 sq m (the same hockey Mig-31 sees already at a distance of 400 km. This is slightly lower than the Hokkaev 568 km, but not quite In addition, a much higher altitude ceiling (30000m versus 10000) allows the MIG-31 to see large radio-contrast targets (such as an aircraft carrier) at a greater distance (due to the larger radio horizon).
    - the huge speed superiority (2700 km versus 578) of the MIG-31 for the purpose of additional reconnaissance and patrolling in the face of enemy opposition (possible air combat) does not just look better, but an order of magnitude better than Hokkaia. MIG-31 is able to both win the air battle and evade it. Hockey depends entirely on the ability of the escort team to protect it.
    -MIG-31 feels much better in the area of ​​ground / sea air defense. High speed dramatically reduces the radius of action of air defense missiles in overtaking and side courses.

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