Rogozin: Russia will not agree to the conditions of the United States during the construction of the near-moon station

The head of "Roskosmos" Dmitry Rogozin, speaking to young specialists in the space industry, said that Russia was not satisfied with the conditions proposed by the American side in the project of the near-moon station, RIA reports News.

Rogozin said that Russia would not participate in the project on the near-moon station in secondary roles. The Americans offered Russian specialists to develop and build an airlock for the station, but according to American technical standards and under the American spacesuit. Therefore, Russia will offer its project for the near-moon station, he said. At the same time, it is not yet clear whether it will be only Russian or will be built as an international one. It is possible that the construction will be engaged in the BRICS countries. US participation is not excluded, but under Russian conditions, Rogozin added.

Rogozin announced talks with NASA administrator Jim Braydenstein, as a result of which Russia will communicate to the US its vision of cooperation in circumlunar orbit.

Last September, Roscosmos and NASA signed a memorandum of cooperation on the creation of the international near-moon station Deep Space Gateway, which later became known as the Gateway - Lunar Orbital Platform, and after the September meeting, 2018 was just The Gateway.

Comments

[New Year day]

the dominant place in any project involves the lion's share of expenses. Can we afford the moon now?

[Vard]

Easy ... Drop the ruble to a hundred dimes per dollar and build ...

[Thrall]

Why did this moon surrender? Everything is trampled on by Americans there. Or not trampled?

[Svarog]

Quote: Thrall

Why did this moon surrender? Everything is trampled on by Americans there. Or not trampled?

Such projects provide a point for development in many areas.

[sabakina]

Quote: Svarog

Such projects provide a point for development in many areas.

For example? Lunar soil What did he give earthlings? Moreover, its Americans have successfully lost! As well as the original footage of the "lunar landing"!

[dSK]

Quote: sabakina

Americans successfully lost

It is possible that the construction of the BRICS countries.

What a progress! It took four yearsto understand that Donbas and Syria are a war for a long time and they will try to "finish off" us to the stop ...

[dSK]

As soon as the States have the opportunity to "carry" their own crew to the ISS, "space" sanctions for Russia will begin, this is the last "zone" not covered by them, for "technical" reasons.

[Sergey Goncharov]

The funny thing is that the Yankees did not lose either one or the other.
And the income from the sale and use of technologies and products created during the Apollo program for 1990 amounted to ~ 300 billion USD - much more than was invested in the program (this is for the subject "For example?").

[KERMET]

If for example it was a project economically successful, that is, profitable, then believe the Americans would continue to fly there

[Dashout]

Quote: sabakina

Lunar soil What did he give earthlings?

Hello, hello! I'll tell you about the lunar soil: any substance (primitively) is a mixture of molecules from atoms of the periodic table. The size of the clarke concentration of various compounds of this substance is one of its characteristics (elemental analysis). For example: Fe - 23% Al - 27%, etc. This analysis makes it possible to design the necessary technologies on site and then use them - not to drag structures there, but to put robots .. So the data on the lunar soil are of known value. Another thing is why these technologies are not being developed here and now, WITHOUT LUNAR SOIL! Technology, by and large, is absolutely up to the light bulb that you fall asleep there: industrial waste or lunar soil ...

[demo]

MOSCOW, 25 Jul - RIA News. Helium-3 reserves on the moon can provide earthlings with energy for five thousand years ahead, a doctor of physical and mathematical sciences said on Wednesday at a multimedia lecture at RIA Novosti, head of the moon and planet research department of the State Astronomical Institute of Moscow State University. Lomonosov Vladislav Shevchenko.

"The possibilities of providing the inhabitants of the Earth with energy carriers are not unlimited, their reserves on our planet will be exhausted in the coming centuries. At the same time, the United States has already calculated that the reserves of helium-3 on the Moon can provide earthlings with energy for at least five thousand years in advance." , - Shevchenko said.

“Yes, the cost of one ton of helium-3 will be about a billion dollars, given that the necessary infrastructure for production and delivery from the Moon will be created. But at the same time, 25 tons - and this is only 25 billion dollars, which is not so much on the scale of the states of our planet - enough to provide energy to earthlings for a year. Currently, the United States alone spends about $ 40 billion on energy resources a year. The benefits are obvious, "Shevchenko said.



RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/science/20120725/709192459.html

[Henderson]

Quote: sabakina

Moreover, its Americans have successfully lost!

feel free to ask what is shown in this photo?

[Kuroneko]

Quote: Thrall

Everything is trampled on by Americans there. Or not trampled?

So I (and I am not alone) and am looking forward to the expedition to the Moon announced by Roscosmos at the beginning of the 20. She just has to give an answer - whether the Lunar conspiracy or not.

[Sergey Goncharov]

A Russian expedition with a moon landing in the early 2020s is impossible even purely theoretically. In the first half of 2030-h - maybe yes.

[Kuroneko]

Who said there will be a landing people? I'm talking about Luna-25.
https://ria.ru/science/20180125/1513288175.html
It's just that I habitually shift the terms to the right. So already next year the flight seems to be as planned.

[Sergey Goncharov]

And how can a lunar South Pole exploration lander confirm or deny the "lunar conspiracy"?
PS On June 28, 2018, Roscosmos officially postponed the launch of the Luna-25 spacecraft to 2021 (probably from June to October).

[Kuroneko]

Therefore, I immediately spoke about the beginning of the 20s.
And the apparatus, I repeat (at least according to the preliminary plan), must fly over the Apollo landing site, having documented everything (he will drop the probe later). I hope you will not dispute the quality and resolution of modern cameras? There is no rain and wind on the moon. If there are traces of the Armstrong Niles (and module lunaries), then they will remain in full safety for more than one millennium. And the American flag, stuck in selenite, can hardly be overlooked from orbit.

[Cannonball]

So long ago, photographs of the traces of Americans on the moon have been published. The Chinese also published them.

[Kuroneko]

And whose pictures were? American? Chinese?
All the same, let's wait for the Russians. Not long left.

[Cannonball]

Surveyor 3 and Apollo 12 Landing Photo

Apollo 11

Apollo 14

Apollo 15

Apollo 16

[Cannonball]

Apollo 17

Photos from AMC LRO

[Henderson]

Quote: Kuroneko

All the same, let's wait for the Russians. Not long left.

and then it turns out that the Russians have a Chinese camera, since there is none of their own. And again, in a circle.

[Igor V]

Quote: Cannonball

So long ago, photographs of the traces of Americans on the moon have been published. The Chinese also published them.

Since this question is a matter of faith, temples should be on the pictures.

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Could you explain the visibility in the Apollo14 photograph? There are marked the Lunar Module (Antares) and the shadow of it. The shadow is directed to the right. At the same time, shadows from natural elevations are directed to the left. It’s possible that I’m not catching up somewhere.

[dSK]

Quote: Kuroneko

And the American flag stuck in selenite

There should be a bunch of "hardware" left - descent modules, "motorcycles" ...
What is there to do at the lunar station, to look around the clock on the lifeless desert?
Send a lunar "drone" with a bunch of video cameras in different ranges, and let it revolve around the moon, scan.

[Cannonball]

See the photo above, everything has already been scanned for a long time.

[sabakina]

Quote: Cannonball

See the photo above, everything has already been scanned for a long time.

You too have been scanned. But I don’t see the face. So, what is next? Will you claim that you exist?

[Sergey Goncharov]

Something I have not heard about the fact that "Luna-25 will generally take photographs from a selenocentric orbit. Do not confuse with Luna-26 ?? And the traces (and in the literal sense, the footprints of astronauts' soles) have already been photographed Lunar Reconnaissance Orbite back in 2011.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

A Russian expedition with a moon landing in the early 2020s is impossible even purely theoretically. In the first half of the 2030s - maybe yes.

No manned expedition to the moon by 2020 is impossible, either theoretically or practically.

[Tsoy]

So I (and I am not alone) and am looking forward to the expedition to the Moon announced by Roscosmos at the beginning of the 20. She just has to give an answer - whether the Lunar conspiracy or not.

What are going to fly? The federation on 2025 is transferred, the rocket to 30 year. The Moon Union remained only on paper. What are the results of filming LRO not satisfied?

[Kuroneko]

Read my comments a little higher.
I meant Luna-25. Among all purely scientific purposes, the project also provides for checking / photographing the Apollo landing zone.

[Sergey Goncharov]

The Luna-25 expedition program of this not suggests.

[Kuroneko]

Officially, yes. Unofficially - as suggested. After almost half a century of stagnation with domestic lunar programs, and not to look along the way at "a small step for man, but a huge step for Mankind"? We will definitely see. An end to this story must finally be put. Bold. No more speculation. And here is such a chance.

[Tsoy]

Read my comments a little higher.
I meant Luna-25. Among all purely scientific purposes, the project also provides for checking / photographing the Apollo landing zone.

Where is at least one camera among the list of equipment? How to watch? And who approved the "unofficial" mission to verify the Lunar Conspiracy? Among serious space organizations, you will not find a single idiot who will say out loud that he is sending a device to check whether the US or Rent is right.

[sabakina]

Kuroneko, firstly, the Yankees were not there. Secondly, no one will let us go there. I have no earthly government.

[Kuroneko]

I just want there to be no fortune-telling on the coffee grounds.
To make everything clear once and for all. There are planting marks, armstrong lower paw marks and a mattress flag in the ground - well, gut. There are none - well ... then a very interesting story awaits us, in comparison with which both the "white fairy tales" and the Skripals and the evil Russian hatskers will be exactly like kittens in front of a tiger. = 3

[AUL]

Quote: Kuroneko

There are traces of landing, traces of the lower legs of the armstrong and a mattress flag in the ground - well, gut.

It’s easier to find a lander that stays on the moon.

[Cannonball]

The Yankees were there. Flight to the moon depends solely on finances and time. From the technical side, it is quite feasible.

[Kuroneko]

Quote: Cannonball

The Yankees were there.

Twenty five again. There are a bunch of arguments for, but there are no fewer arguments against. Why did the Yankees abruptly forget how to make Saturn 5? Why did the cleaning lady throw all the archives in the trash? Why did the very same Stanley Kubrick die so strange (plus the evidence and his wife that they removed him just because of the staging of the lunar frames). And te te.

[Cannonball]

A contract was signed to create a certain amount of Saturn V. When the contract was completed, unique equipment for its manufacture was dismantled as no longer needed, so the Yankees did not forget how to make them - we just won’t start to do them anymore.
The elimination of technical archives on closed topics is quite common. The manufacturer has no reason to store old trash. They’re not a garbage dump or a museum. Trading firms do the same, freeing up storage space for new goods, freeing (writing off, destroying) from the old, for which there is no demand.

[Cannonball]

That is, in the absence of reasonable argumentation, "minus" is used as an objection to the superior delirium.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Sorry of course, but you'd better have not defended the Americans ... Destroying CD and CTD on a unique launch vehicle would indeed be a very, very strange step. And such a move, the Americans not done!
Almost all the technical documentation for Saturn 5 is stored on microfilms in the archive. An insignificant part of the documents that were changed in the course of work on the launch vehicle was lost, but these losses are not of a "critical" nature. The storage volume is very "sickly" - 2900 cubic meters. feet (~ 80 cubic meters).
Direct quote "from" NASA's Auditor General:
"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."
NASA, with slight variations, reported this many times - but it is "not customary" to publish this information in the Russian-language media.

[Cannonball]

So no one protects them. This is a very common practice, which also works for us. Take the same H-1 and Energy. It is no longer possible to restore their production, it is easier and cheaper to do it again.
Now look at who made Saturn 5:
The first stage is Boeing, the second is North American, and the third is Douglas. Neither company had any reason to keep what it would never need again. This is not the USSR, where they kept various junk for 20 and 30 years "just in case."
Even if some technical documentation for Saturn-5 was preserved in the archives of NASA, it is not at all a fact that it was design and, moreover, technological documentation, which are the property of the aforementioned companies. And it's not a fact that these firms have preserved unique equipment, as well as the personnel who made this rocket. They no longer have Von Braun.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - though Werner was a genius - but on him "the light did not converge like a wedge." Yes, in the end - and a more powerful (70%) engine (moreover, reusable) than the F-1 - was ready in the States by the beginning of the 1980s. Although the "restart" of the F-1 program - the F-1B program - was worked out with all seriousness. Dvigl was even subjected to "reverse engineering" - they completely disassembled and ran the parts through a 3D scanner.

[Klaus]

Forgot to do the same as we forgot to do Buran. There is no technological base for a specific project. And the Americans, for example, did not step on this rake, and in order not to lose technology at all, they launched a project of drones that still fly successfully.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Kuroneko

She just has to give an answer - whether there was a Moon conspiracy or not.

It will not, because if they say that the Americans were on the moon, there will be 100500 people who will not believe the veracity of our expedition

[sabakina]

Quote: Thrall

Why did this moon surrender? Everything is trampled on by Americans there. Or not trampled?

Thrall, look don't watch REN TV! Listen up for sho you accumulated cons? are you like for or against the lunar yankee expedition?

[New Year day]

Quote: sabakina

for sho you accumulated cons?

someone decided to remove objectionable by the method of minus the chorus. Fight for uniformity and understanding.

[sabakina]

prYuvet Silvestrushka! Where did you disappear to? Yes, there is one. But we all know that there is a conspiracy in VO, and that nickname is fighting it!

[New Year day]

Quote: sabakina

prYuvet Silvestrushka! Where did you disappear to?

welcome, Vyacheslav! The capital of the apartment is the laying of copper lining, you yourself understand the trailer walls and ceilings went. All in wires and plaster! And the conspiracy is visible no longer with the naked eye. yes it's not hard to see

[Conductor]

Not. not affordable, but what a project, delicious. this is not a live trash sorted out.

[slipped]

Quote: Silvestr

the dominant place in any project involves the lion's share of expenses. Can we afford the moon now?

For space activities, for the next three years, about 200 billion rubles are allocated each year. But of course, to date, VOC work is not taken into account. So far, only isolation experiments are underway at IBMP, and the PTK NP is being developed. The shop is intensively occupied by Exomars. Their lunar program will begin from 2021.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: slipped

But of course, to date, VOC work is not taken into account.

You do not understand, it will be built at the expense of US taxpayers, just Rogozin is not happy with the amount that the Russian Federation will get for this work. He wants more, his appetite is big

[slipped]

The VOC works are not taken into account due to the sequestration of the OCCC budget in 2016, when the work on the manned lunar program in this period was excluded from the draft current federal space program until 2025. Even for the domestic logistics module for the Gateway, which is offered by Roscosmos, no financial resources are planned. Most likely, I would have to take money for it from other projects or pay a separate line of the budget by decision of the government.

[Cannonball]

It will be funded by all participants, not just Americans. Accordingly, the "pie" will be divided in proportion to the contribution. We can build more and cheaper Americans and Europeans, therefore we should get a bigger "piece" than now. Rogozin says about this - either use our potential to the maximum, or - dosvidos. The role of space lackeys does not suit us.

[Svarog]

Quote: Silvestr

the dominant place in any project involves the lion's share of expenses. Can we afford the moon now?

Very true noticed? In general, it’s strange to discuss joint projects with the enemy, also on secondary roles .. in conditions when every day we are being thrown new sanctions .. It’s easier to stir up this with the Chinese, on equal terms. In this case, the main expenses should be borne by our Chinese comrades, and with us intelligence and inspiration ..

[Sergey Goncharov]

(Insinuatingly) Are you sure that the "Chinese comrades" need this ??

[Dashout]

Quote: Svarog

strange to discuss joint projects with the enemy

and since when did the Americans become enemies of you? what happened then?

[tihonmarine]

If you go on about the amerikosov, then, as always, they will "throw". Very unreliable partners.

[nickname7]

[quot] on secondary roles [/ quote] And what are these secondary roles? bring it, bring it? You thoughtlessly repeat after Ragozin. They suggest switching to their standard, which is bad. It would be if the railway track would be different in all countries of Europe, then what would be hemorrhoids. A unified standard in size, is there any humiliation in this, given the widespread use of the Russian Federation, Western products such as electronics, software, ISO quality, safety equipment, etc.

[aristok]

Quote: Silvestr

Can we afford the moon now?

Better the moon than the mundial.

[Bull Terrier]

Mundial then what prevented you?

[aristok]

Quote: Bull Terrier

Mundial then what prevented you?

precisely because he is instead of the development of science and technology, and in particular the study of the moon.

[Bull Terrier]

Ie cosmos is more important than human connections?)))

[Sergey Goncharov]

And what made a greater impression on Humanity - the First Sputnik or the First World Cup - what do you think ??

[Finches]

There is absolutely no sense to fly independently to the moon, neither the economic nor scientific, nor the political, the ISS in near-Earth space will no longer need nafig, but to create a station in the moon near the next step in human development, therefore the joint project of Roscos and NASA The European Union - despite the serious disagreements between us - is very important for all of humanity and our industries in particular! We need to sit down and negotiate, and not find out who is peeing on the wall above!

[poquello]

Quote: Finches

There is absolutely no sense to fly independently to the moon, neither the economic nor scientific, nor the political, the ISS in near-Earth space will no longer need nafig, but to create a station in the moon near the next step in human development, therefore the joint project of Roscos and NASA The European Union - despite the serious disagreements between us - is very important for all of humanity and our industries in particular! We need to sit down and negotiate, and not find out who is peeing on the wall above!

in this version, but what are important, we will make the hatch by American standards. Everything is correct Rogozin said.

[Sergey39]

That's right, Rogozin said everything.
Are we a leading space power or were we standing next to it?

[Terenin]

... you need to sit down and agree ...
I believe that everything is heading towards this. Politics and the ability to bargain, her mother ... Each side with a margin raises the bar in order to then have advantages ... Example, "our" Donya Trump.

[Zubr]

Let me disagree with you. We already have a sad experience with our sworn friends. Never, we will not be able to agree with them. They always used the Soviet and Russian potential, only for their selfish purposes. And to build such joint projects with them, especially with NASA, and even more so under the conditions of sanctions, this will definitely give them one more lever of pressure on Russia. They walk in the forest, in small steps.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Finches

Need to sit down and negotiate

If you are not going to negotiate specifically, but just want to get something from you, then there is no benefit in such an agreement. Then they will leave on the sidelines and that’s all.

[Tsoy]

There is absolutely no sense to fly independently to the moon, neither the economic nor scientific, nor the political, the ISS in near-Earth space will no longer need nafig, but to create a station in the moon near the next step in human development, therefore the joint project of Roscos and NASA The European Union - despite the serious disagreements between us - is very important for all of humanity and our industries in particular! We need to sit down and negotiate, and not find out who is peeing on the wall above!

Come on. Only no one except the US wants to invest. NASA has more budget than Roscosmos and ESA. The latter has "only" 5 billion euros. Amers have almost 20 billion. Yes, this is the total sum of all programs, including promising and being developed, but it is not difficult to calculate who has greater financial freedom. It turns out like with the ISS. The lion's share of all costs are borne by one, but the station is common.

[sabakina]

Eugene, if you have agreed with the lunatics, then there is a sense to fly. But I don't think even you can do it. And the second thing. Show me an engine that can push an object to the moon! Korolev could not, or maybe did not have time, but Amerzians like "shmogli" ...

[Finches]

I’m more about the fact that this is a technically difficult and economically difficult question for one country — but joint efforts can push humanity out of the near-earth orbit!

[Dashout]

Quote: Finches

joint efforts can push humanity away from near-Earth orbit!

Let's do this (for me stupid!): What is the space program for? Just fly? Push humanity out? I don’t think - first of all - these are new principles of weapon development! With whom are you going to jointly develop it (weapon)? With amers? In general, it is strange how you see Russia in 20 years!
second: I have already noted that the planned space program can be of great benefit here and now! Whether or not they fly - we’ll see, but industrial waste can and should be processed now! Where is this NordUral? Let him tell without shouting what monotowns are in the Urals ... I personally was in Kamenskoye-Uralsky - mountains of dumps of "red mud" and ash girdle the city like a horseshoe !!!
Here they need to train to build lunar stations, here on Earth! But then when we learn how to obtain spatial structures through robotics - then you can send these robots to the moon ...

[Finches]

If Korolev reasoned as you would, we would still train on the dumps ... Excuse me generously, but maybe I didn’t understand you!

[Sergey Goncharov]

Apply for a visa, buy tickets - fly to Hutchinson, Kansas, USA, go to the Cosmosphere SciEd International Center and Museum of Astronautics - and enjoy plenty!

[Dashout]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Apply for a visa, buy tickets - fly to Hutchinson, Kansas, USA, go to the Cosmosphere SciEd International Center and Museum of Astronautics - and enjoy plenty!

Are you this to me?
What should I enjoy? America is your country, not mine! Adviser...

[nickname7]

Show me the engine that can push an object to the moon! Korolev could not

What nonsense do you write, or do you live in the forest?
Jet rocket engines have been around for a long time. Korolev is not the engines, he could not do the project.

[Cannonball]

Yeah, agree, but only on our terms!

[Zubr]

It will be difficult, no one said it would be easy. And we need promising projects. And given the prospect of mining Helium-3, this station will pay off pretty quickly. So, investments in this project are quite promising. We won’t come there, Americans, Chinese will come. But Joseph Vissarionovich raised the question of the division of the moon, even at the Yalta conference. Far-sighted was.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - let's put "the section of the Moon in Yalta" - this is exactly the same series as "the prospects for the production of helium-3 on the Moon".

[Zubr]

Really? Think of science fiction writers. And you'd better educate yourself and read scientific articles. What used to be science fiction is already a reality. And this is over the past 100 years. And in school physics textbooks before World War II, they wrote: "The atom is not a divisible particle."

[Sergey Goncharov]

The fact of the matter is that I have read these very scientific articles. And I can roughly imagine - before what timeframe energy thermonuclear reactors of an industrial image (for which helium-3 is only interesting) will appear in principle not can.
PS And the fact that the atom is divisible was known to the whole world already in 1932.

[aszzz888]

Zubr Today, 13: 26
We won’t come there, the Americans will come, Chinese.

... yes, this audience is nimble, does not tolerate emptiness in nature - it fills instantly ... they will stand on each other’s shoulders, but they will climb to the moon ... and then consider the moon’s kopek, they will take out glasses of EVERYTHING, they’ll also take it from neighboring planets ...

[Zubr]

And then go prove your claim to the lunar territories. And in America, there are already owners of lunar sites. And this is also a reality.

[Sergey Goncharov]

And not only in America. Almost all over the world. Including the countries of the former. THE USSR. That's just - their "property rights" are not recognized anywhere and by anyone. Formally, all companies that sell "allotments on the Moon", planets, stars, etc. - own only "copyright for" virtual souvenirs. "

[ver_]

... you don’t have to fall into childhood .. For the extraction of helium 3, you need to build a mine base on the moon ... and not .... a louse in the moon’s orbit ...

[Svetlana]

Quote: Zubr

investments in this project are quite promising

The technology for producing helium-3 and sending it to the ground has not yet been developed. But on the other hand, technologies for delivering thermonuclear charges to the moon and technologies for finely-buried cumulative thermonuclear explosions have been developed. Which, depending on the chosen trajectories, power, geometry of synchronous explosions on the Moon, can either bombard the geostationary orbit with high-speed (10 km / s) cumulative jets of lunar soil, or deliver this soil to near-earth orbits at lower speeds of ~ 3 km / s. The high-speed option delivers soil faster. The low-speed version will hold moon dust in low Earth orbit for a long time and disable all satellites. After that, you will have to say goodbye to GPS navigation and targeting from space and return to airplanes as means of delivery and target detection. And in the extreme version (why do we need the Earth without Russia) - reflected by moon dust in near-Earth orbit the sunlight will so warm the Earth that it will become impossible for the Earth to live.

[Sergey Goncharov]

It is a pity that there is no "smacked" smiley in the forum's emoticons directory ...

[Irokez]

Money is secondary. This is the question of who is the first and who is with us and will collect cream from the project in the future.
But here it is necessary to raise a slightly different question about the fact that the station already on the Moon itself needs to be set up and mastered, and this is more correct than flying in orbit. Delivery of equipment to the surface with a lower gravity than on Earth is more preferable than flying in orbit, because the surface is a solid surface with its advantages when moving and building a permanent house, and in orbit I consider this half measure or half-development of the Moon.
An automatic ship can snuggle up and special robots deliver landed modules to the station nearby and by the way the modules themselves need to be designed so that later when they deliver cargo to the moon, they themselves could be like construction objects or elements of a future station.
A station in orbit of the moon is a waste of time and money. Much better and more useful station on the moon itself.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Silvestr

the dominant place in any project involves the lion's share of expenses. Can we afford the moon now?

Be more calm about such applications, especially from the noble journalist Rogozin. I’m living, you can say, in the space capital of Russia, a lot of friends on Progress are special times. At the Kuznetsov plant, things are going in perfect order, of course, guys they work, but they have an order for a couple of five-year periods.

[Sergey Goncharov]

In fact - if we are talking about a long-term strategy of "ensuring the growing presence of Man on the Moon" - и lunar orbital station и lunar base. This was clear back in the 1960s both in the USA and the USSR.

[Spartanez300]

I would like to believe that Russia has its own conditions.

[Zubr]

While we keep Spartan calm. At the moment, this is the best way out of this situation. And then, with the same calmness, we do our job, accurately and methodically.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Can afford it or not, but we must do now: We are the Empire.

[sabakina]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Can afford it or not, but we must do now: We are the Empire.

Well, yes, I’ll get up in the morning. so imperious! Until the evening....

[ver_]

... yeah - we plowed - said a fly sitting on the horns of a bull ...

[dSK]

Quote: 178

with the decline of one direction, you receive income from prosperous others

Let's invest in the moon, build up New Moscow and the last "Siberians" will move in, the Chinese and Japanese will be delighted with this ...

[Blackmokona]

Roscosmos has already denied the words of its boss.

Sep 22, 16:50
Roscosmos denied reports of withdrawal from a joint project with the United States near the moon station
Earlier, some media outlets, retelling the words of the head of the state corporation Dmitry Rogozin from a meeting with future industry experts at RSC Energia, wrote that Russia refused to participate in the project

TASS data

[Tsoy]

TASS data

Well, what do you say ... This is Rogozin some kind of happened ...

[den3080]

somehow about BRICS it sounds capricious.
B and C fell through the efforts of the Anglo-Saxons, as I understand it.
So there was a RIC, in which IRs are not very friendly with each other.
Correct if I am mistaken.

[tihonmarine]

Can afford it or not, but the Moon should be the dominant project.

[_Kotegpushisteg_]

only such a rich country like Russia can afford such an expensive project as Rogozin

[poquello]

Quote: _Kotegpushisteg_

only such a rich country like Russia can afford such an expensive project as Rogozin

so "rich"? we will be the richest in resources

[Hole puncher]

Quote: poquello

we will be richer in resources

If you are writing on behalf of the Ozero cooperative, then you are right.

[Sergey Goncharov]

The main "natural resource" by the end of the XNUMXst century will be a highly educated population. So here mainland China is beyond competition (well, except that such competition is possible from India).

[poquello]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

The main "natural resource" by the end of the XNUMXst century will be a highly educated population.

how pathetic, but the arguments that is, for this general phrase?

[Sergey Goncharov]

And you briefly get acquainted with the dynamics of the share of labor costs and the cost of acquiring / creating technologies in production costs from the time of Grandfather Marx to the present day - you look, and you will see these arguments!

[poquello]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

And you briefly get acquainted with the dynamics of the share of labor costs and the cost of acquiring / creating technologies in production costs from the time of Grandfather Marx to the present day - you look, and you will see these arguments!

ahem, and how does the "cost of acquiring / creating technologies" correlate with the "highly educated population"? a highly educated population does not at all guarantee the creation of technologies, moreover, it is like a super idea scatters funds and resources, in the development of this super idea one can, for example, try to teach all trained bears and monkeys to read, progress and the creation of technologies move individuals and teams

[Sergey Goncharov]

A high level of education is compulsory, but in itself is an insufficient condition for scientific and technological leadership. So it correlates. "Individuals and teams" need an up-to-date knowledge base in the areas of application of their abilities - and the ability to work effectively with this base.

[poquello]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

High level of education

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

highly educated population

like the topic has not changed, can’t you tell?

[Cossack 471]

That's just our hackers give everyone a drive !!!!

[Setrac]

Quote: poquello

so "rich"? we will be the richest in resources

The wealth of a developed state is in people, not in "resources", and our women do not want to give birth.

[poquello]

Quote: Setrac

The wealth of a developed state in people

oh, one more, I rephrase one old Chinese wisdom - a person has a head, trunk and limbs, all this is necessary for his harmonious existence, and the country's population cannot be one big head

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - actually - the demographic crisis is a common problem just developed States.

[albert]

I will clarify the capitalist developed states.

[Sergey Goncharov]

At one time I had a lot of dealings with the "third world" and I can assure you - by the standards really underdeveloped countries and even mainland China - Russia, Ukraine and Belarus - are fully developed states.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Well - in fact - the demographic crisis is a common problem of developed countries.

Just so, I’ll just clarify the demographic problem - a consequence of developed social and pension programs.

[ver_]

... you won’t be fed up with gold ...

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - personally, I would not mind at all if Russia were really ready create your own lunar station and implement other aspects of the lunar program (lunar base, etc.). In the end - if the USSR had won the "lunar race" at one time (and there was an objective opportunity for this) - the Yankees would not have calmed down until they landed on Mars. Accordingly, the border of the possibilities of Mankind in Space would be much more "advanced into the Universe" than it is now. The battle of ambitions in the field of scientific and technological achievements is only for the benefit of Mankind. IMHO. But if Dmitry Olegovich again "solo" with "pontorez" - it's sad ...

[Uncle lee]

Russia will not participate in the project

And then the Yankees will drill holes in the module!

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

if the USSR had won the "moon race"

If a man’s flight to the moon was physically possible — the USSR would have accomplished it and won the lunar race, a man’s flight to the moon is impossible now and even less so then.

[Sergey Goncharov]

The USSR lost the "moon race" thanks to the very specific mistakes of very specific comrades - from (sad as it may seem to admit) Korolev and ending with Khrushchev. There was nothing impossible in such an expedition.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

USSR lost the "moon race"

If this were true, the Americans had their own lunar base on the Moon, and even without the help of Russia they could not have mastered the orbital station.

[ver_]

.... no one has ever been on the moon .. See Capricorn -1, where the Americans save the Earth ..

[poquello]

Quote: ver_

.... no one has ever been on the moon .. See Capricorn -1, where the Americans save the Earth ..

the test film, although I somehow still couldn’t settle down with the opinion, after the second they flew, and after the third they did not fly,
QUESTION for the sect of witnesses of the American landing on the moon - why did the Americans fly so many times, and only one was checked?

[Sergey Goncharov]

ANSWER for the lunar conspiracy witness sect - US flags on the moon SIX - they were set by each visiting expedition.

[ver_]

... if there was a desire, the USSR would have bubbled a small satellite into the lunar orbit and it would show that there are no signs of penguins staying on the moon - there aren’t even their * car * there ... Kose Fershtein, that was a conspiracy .. And that's what was at stake? ...- our upper ones won’t say ...- how many years already * roll Vanka * ...

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well, let's start with the fact that if there was a "lunar conspiracy" - the USSR would not desperately try to score "prestige goals" to the last, having made the first manned flight around the Moon and the first delivery of soil from the Moon (with the help of AMC). the ground "continued in the literal sense until the last day - even when Apollo 11 was already launched to the Moon.

[ver_]

... however, you are from the humanities ... You can pass Van Allen’s belts only through the North or South Pole of the Earth - there are * holes * where there is no radiation ... But according to this scheme, there was not a single flight, besides from solar radiation, and there the radiation spectrum is very wide - the same requires serious protection, and this is a huge weight ... And on the moon itself, what kind of radiation? She has no atmosphere that * shields * alpha, gamma, beta rays ..

[poquello]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Well, let's start with the fact that if there was a "lunar conspiracy" - the USSR would not desperately try to score "prestige goals" to the last, having made the first manned flight around the Moon and the first delivery of soil from the Moon (with the help of AMC). the ground "continued in the literal sense until the last day - even when Apollo 11 was already launched to the Moon.

about the scandal with the American "stone from the moon" I wrote a couple of months earlier))))

[poquello]

Quote: ver_

... if there was a desire, the USSR would have bubbled a small satellite into the lunar orbit and it would show that there are no signs of penguins staying on the moon - there aren’t even their * car * there ... Kose Fershtein, that was a conspiracy .. And that's what was at stake? ...- our upper ones won’t say ...- how many years already * roll Vanka * ...

I'll make a reservation right away, while I'm a spectator, there was an interesting article about the "con", such as all kinds of preferences from the United States for the USSR in the 70s, this is a consequence of collusion, or rather the price of silence

[poquello]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

ANSWER for the lunar conspiracy witness sect - US flags on the moon SIX - they were set by each visiting expedition.

Well then, there’s no problem at all, look at the telescope or that's what the lunar probes are photographing any kind of tire marks, they would photograph the flags

[Sergey Goncharov]

Yes - "argument" - "reinforced concrete" !!

[Sands Careers General]

Rogozin said that Russia will not participate in the project of the near-moon station on secondary roles.

So move, Rogozin, to become a leader! Mattresses are already on their heels in full swing and it’s foolish to deny it.

[Nychego]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Mattresses are already on their heels in full swing

Coming?
Hindus and Europeans are now on the heels of Russia in outer space, and mattresses and dummies have long been ahead.
The day is not far off when, with the active participation of Mr. Rogozin, we will compete for fifth place in the space race with South Africa and Indonesia (no joke - what a joke ...)

[Sergey Goncharov]

If you get to the "competition" with South Africa or Indonesia, it will be not for 5th place. And somewhere in the second ten ...

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

If you get to the "competition" with South Africa or Indonesia, then it will no longer be for 5th place. And somewhere in the second ten ...

That's when the Americans will fly to the ISS on Indonesian rockets - then we will worry about that.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Then - it will be too late.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Then - it will be too late.

And now it's early. Early worries about what will never happen.

[ver_]

... penguins attack their eggs ... - we wish them good luck ...

[ver_]

... each other’s mattresses come on heels - but these are not our heels ...

[kunstkammer]

Quote: Svarog

the main expenses should be borne by our Chinese comrades, and with us intelligence and inspiration ..

With the "inspiration" for cutting Chinese money, we have it all! We are already rubbing our sweaty hands! But will the Kutai tovarischi agree to this? They say they are meticulous ... and they don't have a Basmanny court either.

[Nychego]

Quote: kunstkammer

But will the Kutai comrades agree to this? They say they are meticulous ... and they don’t have a Basmanny court either.

Eh, as part of such a project, we would introduce the transfer of Russian accused of bribery and embezzlement on the project under the jurisdiction of China, and then watch how "effective space managers" screech from the threat of participating in such an experiment.

[Dude]

The most sensible thought of all the comments!

[ver_]

... from the same pancake Clinton - some are obsessed with the Chinese - this gambit will get the hell out of us, it will hook over with a hump ..

[Altona]

Quote: Finches

It makes no sense to fly independently to the moon at all, neither economic, nor scientific, nor political

---------------------
Machine to send is not fate? Like in the USSR ...

[Altona]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

So move, Rogozin, to become a leader!

------------------------------
Well, one more thing. He is an outspoken fascist.

[den3080]

Rogozin is a journalist by profession, that’s what he says.
Do not forget this.
And further. As a journalist, he simply is not able to understand many technical issues, and especially scientific and technical ones. He did not learn from this and has no inclinations, since he chose the humanitarian path.
And now his position is very specific, it should be occupied by a techie.

[Altona]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

In the end - if the USSR had won the "lunar race" at one time (and there was an objective opportunity for this)

--------------------
The USSR won it, he actually sent automatic stations and brought real soil samples.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Yes, yes, I am aware that 57% of adult citizens of the Russian Federation believe that American astronauts were not on the moon and only 24% “graciously agree” that they did. Delivering.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Yes, yes, I am aware that 57% of adult citizens of the Russian Federation believe that American astronauts were not on the moon

And they are right.

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

and only 24% “graciously agree” that they did. Delivering.

And you are wrong, these 24% just don't care.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Well - ban the free people of a free country from freely exposing themselves to an all-planet laughing stock - no one has the right. This is yes, this is yes.

[Dude]

And why is verbiage - [quote] ban the free people of a free country [quote]?
Judging by the flag, you have already broken the slave chains, well, rejoice! To myself, preferably)

[Sergey Goncharov]

This is called sarcasm. And to laugh inwardly or in public - I'll somehow decide for myself. And yes - the country in whose domain my IP "broke the shackles of slaves" back in 1789. It went down in history as the Great French Revolution.

[Dude]

Yeah, and you are just a native of Belle France in the XNUMXth generation, you have to understand, you are sarcastic)

[Sergey Goncharov]

No - in the "100500th generation" I am a native of the First Rzeczpospolita.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

This is called sarcasm.

You are laughing at yourself. Your sincere, childish faith from the light American elves evokes tenderness with your childish spontaneity. Nobody believes the Americans precisely because they are Americans, and only the slaves of the American "democracy" lick the American boot.

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

It went down in history as the Great French Revolution.

But what about the restoration? Put the shackles back on? Did not like the freedom of the French?

[Setrac]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Well - to forbid the free people of a free country to freely expose themselves to an all-planet ridicule - no one has the right. This is yes, this is yes.

I understand that demagogy is your main quality, but there must also be a semantic load.

[Mauricio]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

yes, I am aware that 57% of adult citizens of the Russian Federation believe that American astronauts have not been on the moon fool fool and only 24% “graciously agree” that they did. Delivering. fellow

the same clowns voted to declare cybernetics a "corrupt girl of imperialism", but the rest of the world did not care about the authoritative opinion of these idiots.

Quote: Setrac

Quote: Sergey Goncharov
Yes, yes, I am aware that 57% of adult citizens of the Russian Federation believe that American astronauts were not on the moon
And they are right

let's decide, for example, whether to believe in the theory of relativity through voting, of course, the authoritative opinion of 57% of unknown people with averaged 5 grades of education is very important for the rest of the world

[ver_]

... you can immediately see the humanities - in the language of la-la - do not toss pebbles ..

[Hole puncher]

Rogozin said that Russia will not participate in the project of the near-moon station on secondary roles.

Did Rogozin want to be a full partner, build half and finance in the same way? Not having the means or capabilities?

[Nychego]

You cannot at the last moment jump on the footboard of the tram with three kopecks in your pocket and start yelling "Drove, let me steer!"

[aristok]

Quote: Nychego

You cannot at the last moment jump on the footboard of the tram with three kopecks in your pocket and start yelling "Drove, let me steer!"

and what does this driver steer?
Orion? Starliner? cru dragon?
made fun of.

[dgonni]

If you pull out the main thing! Russia will not participate at all. Given the holes in the descent compartment of the union, Russian engineers will not be allowed to go further than designing the lock chamber. For ten years, to drop the level of cosmonautics below the baseboard, it was still necessary to try. But the great helmsmen succeeded

[Setrac]

Quote: dgonni

Given the holes in the descent compartment of the union

It has already been proven that the hole was drilled out of harmfulness by a Ukrainian.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Steeper - "deeply conspiratorial with an order to activate at a critical moment" Russian-speaking Bandera member "!!

[Dashout]

Quote: Finches

the joint project of Roscosos, NASA and the European Union - despite the serious differences between us - is very important for all of humanity and our industries in particular! You need to sit down and agree, and not find out who pisses on the wall above!

How can you agree if you are shown in advance the place of a junior partner?
We must do it ourselves! And to do so at the same time on Earth (in Russia) to use the new technologies received. What do I mean: testing the technology and manufacturing the gamut of modules for the full (not deep, but full) use of the substance! From unprocessed material to structural materials, assemblies, structures, and more ... By substance I mean lunar soil. The development and development of this technological complex will immediately give a breakthrough in domestic materials science, metal science, robotics, technology for the use of rare and rare earth metals, as well as in the theory of the development of technology as a science.
The development of the modular technology for the full use of the substance can and should be carried out on existing dumps of industrial enterprises. Those industrial dumps that surround the horseshoe monotown. This will give people work, and prosperity, and an impetus to the development of domestic technology!
Only by ourselves - and not to listen to the liberal "public" who says: "There is no need to reinvent the wheel! Let's join the Americans. Everything has already been invented before us ..."

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Dashout

We must do it ourselves!

Well, you are my friend and dreamer.

[Dashout]

Quote: Puncher

Well, you are my friend and dreamer.

maybe a dreamer, but not a silkwalker and alarmist ...
For 20 years, Russian science has been spread rot by the calls for globalization ... as soon as the United Russia party Makarov from the stage begins to make scary eyes and says, says ... in the end - if it weren’t for the military-industrial complex, everything would have died ...

[Pontiffsulyvahn]

junior partner place

And what can you offer in order to give you a place of equal rights?

[Dashout]

Quote: PontiffSulyvahn

And what can you offer in order to give you a place of equal rights?

nothing needs to be asked - it is necessary to take ... (see above)

[dgonni]

Take or offer, you can only in one case! This is when there is something to offer. I mean ready-made technologies that others do not have! As an example, after the collapse of the USSR, Russia had something to offer in the field of aircraft construction! And yet, with mattresses for a couple, the knowledge of Tu-144 and Yak-141 was supplemented. What can cosmonautics of Russia offer at the moment in terms of creating the same lunar bases, which the states do not have? That is the whole answer.

[aristok]

Quote: dgonni

What can cosmonautics of Russia offer at the moment in terms of creating the same lunar bases, which the states do not have?

For starters, there is no simplest thing - a manned spacecraft ..
And there is no need to sing the songs "just about, soon soon" -
-It was funny to listen back in 2014, to which the first promises were assigned.

[Dashout]

Quote: dgonni

What can cosmonautics of Russia offer at the moment in terms of creating the same lunar bases, which the states do not have?

I hope that you are from the Donbass ...
I was not talking about astronautics, but about the development of related technologies that can be fully involved in domestic production

[Pontiffsulyvahn]

Sorry, but I do not understand what you want to "take". In the post above, you were outraged that we were invited to the moon only as a junior partner. A simple question - what can Roscosmos offer to be equal? Can't do anything? Then he can only count on "fetch-fetch."

[Dashout]

Quote: PontiffSulyvahn

Sorry, but I do not understand what you want to "take".

Of course, I myself, like you, cannot take anything, nor force it. I noted above that this lunar program should not be denied, but forced to orient it on the development of its own industry, its own technologies. What happens from this - I do not know! But without the belief that normal decisions will be made, it is impossible to live! Here is my answer ... I do not call for the seizure of power - not mine ...

[Nychego]

Quote: Dashout

And to do so in order to simultaneously use the new technologies received on Earth (in Russia).

Not with this power.
The actions of the current rulers are in no way focused on the receipt of profits by society. All their at least somewhat dimensional activities fit into two paradigms:
- maximum privatization of the country's revenues while socializing expenses;
- maintaining the current order of things is possible for a longer time.

[Dashout]

Quote: Nychego

Not with this power.

I wouldn’t get excited .. There’s a lot of reptiles and so far it’s unlikely that anything will change the HSE ... But I can’t hope not! It would be necessary to bring up this Lunar program for discussion and adapt it to current needs ...

[Altona]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Yes, yes, I am aware that 57% of adult citizens of the Russian Federation believe that American astronauts were not on the moon

--------------------------
Are you an adult yourself? Judging by the banter of the brain at the age of 4.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Alas - my golden childhood is already "hidden by the dense haze of time." However, during my childhood, such a "parade of militant ignorance" was not observed ...

[Cottager452]

The moon is ours!
Point.

[sabakina]

However, it is not yet clear whether it will only be Russian or will be built as international.

Yes there will be no near-moon station! Neither Russian. neither American nor international. sleepwalkers will not allow this. Remember the start and subsequent explosion of the Mask rocket, which was supposed to fly in the lunar direction!

[spektr9]

sleepwalkers will not allow this

Taki my friend is a sleepwalker, says that Max is not involved in the rocket)

[spektr9]

And what was not immediately clear?))

[Piramidon]

We must first put things in order on Earth, and then think about the "moons" and "mars". Who can explain to me why the hell is it to me, a simple Russian pensioner, the "lunar base" fell?

[Ross xnumx]

As for the project of the near-moon station, which can be carried out as part of the BRICS ... it is possible even as part of the RICS ... A great alternative. (I would also like to attract the DPRK to this. For purposes of irritation factor and as an example of enthusiasm) Consistent space exploration is a better way to spend money than building dam bridges to Sakhalin or holding a mundial. Better not the championship itself, but the mode of conduct that Russia has chosen for itself.

The head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin, speaking to young specialists in the space industry, said that Russia is not satisfied with the conditions proposed by the American side in the project of the lunar station

Russia should not be satisfied with cooperation with a country that constantly bargains for itself preferential terms and tariffs, supplying the rest with sanctions and bans. But, if the USA does without trampolines, and instead of titanium they use tin, then Rogozin should tell in his speeches to young specialists how he himself reached such heights and draw a take-off curve of his own son’s career. It is possible that only in this way young specialists will understand the whole truth of his words ...

[Graz]

Russia should no longer participate in joint projects with the United States, transfer to them its technology in one form or another

[The Siberian barber]

..and we helped them remove the diapers .. Maybe in vain?))

[Our Business Right]

On the Moon, one can test new super-powerful atomic bombs so as not to pollute the Earth.

[Sergey Goncharov]

It is impossible. Prohibited by contract.

[Nosferatu]

Damn ... Ural. Siberia. East. Far East. To master - but not to master. Place order on our ball. Then we'll see where to go.

[Piramidon]

I agree. We have less Siberia than the moon mastered. No roads, no cities. Where are we swinging? Or there’s nowhere to put money.

[senima56]

Dmitry Olegovich loves to "flaunt" a loud statement .... The truth from what he said - little came true! But "the main thing is to crow"? Obviously, that's why he lost the post of "deputy prime minister" ?!

[merkavaa]

It seems he promised to build his station, but now even the hatch has refused.

[aristok]

Quote: Sergey Goncharov

Need и lunar orbital station и lunar base.

We need ONLY a habitable base on the moon.
VOC (lunar orbital station) is a waste of money and time.
In the orbit of the moon, man has nothing to do.
But on the surface of the moon - a lot of interesting tasks and research.

[exo]

Modern Russia and the near-moon project, somehow do not fit at all. And the participation of the United States, on Russian terms, is excluded. For the next ...... many years.

[aristok]

Quote: exo

Modern Russia and the near-moon project, somehow do not fit at all.

it is necessary to write not "Russia", but "comprador rf".
with such correction correct ..
..and this concerns the whole development of science and technology.

[Jerk]

Guys, the moon is like Helium-3. This is energy, and after it everyone will have to climb the moon, and the United States and China, and Russia. There are no options - hydrocarbons are not endless. That is why the door to the station, through which you can not let the Russians go in different ways - well, they didn’t have time to adjust the spacesuit, but yours didn’t climb - the Russian Federation is not needed

[Sergey Goncharov]

Actually - the options are just is. Raw uranium reactors. Thorium Reactors Breeder Reactors. Uranium mining from granite. And that - even if you take only nuclear power. But lunar helium-3 in this century will definitely not become relevant.

[Jerk]

Yeah, there is. After Fukushima, especially with Chernobyl. Now the situation with nuclear power plants is very peculiar - in the Russian Federation there is. In China there is construction, but low-power. And that’s it, the gingerbread cookies are over. Europe shies away from nuclear power plants like hell from incense, and what market is it by volume? And the energy requirements are growing and growing ...
Well, I didn’t suck about helium from my finger:
https://3dnews.ru/802650

NASA begins accepting applications from private companies for the development of minerals of the moon
one [

When all this will be - the question, of course, but if the cancer on the mountain whistles tomorrow - the oil has run out! We'll have to run at a pace of a twist to all crawl to the moon, along the way, of course building and nuclear power plants, as a half-measure.

[Sergey Goncharov]

There is, there is. In addition to Russia and China (whose 1087 MW units I would not not called "low-power") - nuclear power reactors are now being built in Bangladesh, Belarus, Brazil, India, UAE, USA, Finland, Republic of Korea. So "the rumors about the death of nuclear power are somewhat exaggerated." Yes, and oil and gas so far end in no way not intend - proven recoverable reserves of hydrocarbon fossil fuels on the contrary, slowly but steadily are growing. Well - nobody again canceled the hydro generation - with its enormous prospects (especially - tidal - with station capacities up to 100 GW). therefore in the next 100 years - if not much more - no one will "jump to the moon for helium-3".

[ver_]

... yeah - helium 3 is already * standing * in the tanks there ..

[Rust0626]

Cannonball,
This is all good, but I would like to see the footprints of the astronauts. Everything else I do not dispute

[Cannonball]

Traces of lunar rovers will not suit you?

[Rust0626]

No, as the rover can be self-propelled

[Cannonball]

Lunar Rover (aka Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV), aka Moon buggy). Three such cars rode on the moon. Without autopilot, without Elon Mask.

[Nychego]

Quote: Rust0626

This is all good, but I would like to see the footprints of the astronauts.

Calm down already. Soviet scientists never doubted the authenticity of the successes of the American space program. The propagandists and sensational seekers began to play this card, even after the collapse of the USSR. Check out Surdin’s highly understandable and very professional lecture.

[Rust0626]

I watched the video. Description of the preparation and flight to the moon with a bunch of drawings and photographs. Not a single evidence.
I think it is the footprints that will be the proof, the Soviet moon rovers did the rest.

[Sergey Goncharov]

I am for him !!
Enjoy:
http://www.membrana.ru/particle/15700

[1536]

"American Standards" are best used on film sets in Hollywood, for example, putting pressure on the weak psyche of some people who are fond of Space. But in space, American standards somehow do not take root, most likely, starting with the flight of Apollo 13 in 1970 and the failure of the Skylab station in orbit.
The first manned space flight that Yuri Gagarin became was prepared and carried out by Soviet Russia in 1961. This is one of the confirmations that American standards lagged behind Russian ones even then.
The sinking of the space shuttle Challenger on January 28, 1986 is the second confirmation of this. Finally, the lack of reliable rocket engines for launching ships into orbit in the United States is the third. So what? Will the impudent kids from NASA use, in fact, steal, Russian technologies to prove to the world that they are capable of something? Let the tobacco stalls rob. This is their level.

[Sergey Goncharov]

Oh really??
Who is the leader in the number of manned launches? Who is the leader in the number of cosmonauts who flew on their ships ?? Who has fewer disasters and accidents during manned missions (despite the larger number of them) ?? Who carried out the first docking in space ?? Under whose flag did the largest manned ships fly (this is also the question of "reliable engines") ?? Whose astronauts first landed on another celestial body ?? Who "holds" the record for the duration of stay in outer space ??
Guys - ay! - mute the "pontorezka", plz! You have nothing to steal from you in terms of technical means to ensure the exploration and use of outer space. Because - corny not interesting. From the word "absolutely". The USSR was ahead in space during the glorious times of Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, yes. Some leadership positions - retained until its collapse. But - both those and those times are long gone ... Now that "they are capable of something else" - you will have to prove - yeah.
P.S... At the "failed" Skylab station, an absolute record for the duration of a space flight was set at that time. And for the first time, assembly operations were performed in open space. Like this.

[Rust0626]

It's not about show off. What a show off, when there is no country for which it would be possible to pont.
The thing is different. The development of mankind, including science and technology, is progressing. From small to large, from simple to complex tasks. Regression happens, usually as a result of wars, a change in the political system, global cataclysms. None of this happened in the USA, but why don't we see progress? Why do Americans not only not fly to Mars or Venus, but generally bring people into the near space with the help of Russia? What happened to the engine with which so many missions to the moon were accomplished? This is paradoxical only on condition that they fly to the moon. But if you didn’t fly, then everything is logical, the Americans are developing in the same way as all of humanity as a whole.

[Indifferent]

Where do you find this nonsense? Is it too lazy to look at Wikipedia? The record for the continuous stay of man in space has remained unsurpassed for the past 20 years. It was delivered in 1995 by the Russian cosmonaut Valery Polyakov, whose flight lasted 437 days 17 hours 58 minutes.

[albibek]

How would you comment on the astronauts running along the walls of Skylab? very funny sight.
There is a video on the Internet, you will find. Look in
bolshoyforum.com
I don’t remember exactly.

[Henderson]

Quote: 1536

Finally, the United States lacks reliable rocket engines to launch ships into orbit - the third.

Falcon-9 with engines has completed more than 60 flights. Part of the missiles flew twice.
Can be compared with: https://tass.ru/kosmos/3972205
MOSCOW, January 25. / TASS /. The state corporation Roscosmos decided to check the engines of all Proton-M launch vehicles because of the solder containing precious metals, which does not correspond to the documentation.
So you are lying, sir.

Quote: 1536

Will the brazen kids from NASA use, in fact, steal Russian technology to prove to the world that they are capable of something?

is it Russia that is going to build a reusable step after Musk, but is it the other way around?

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Question: How long can a LIVING near-moon station last without protection by a geomagnetic field (cast a lead from it with a lead)? To humanities, please do not worry.
Another "Clipper"

[Sergey Goncharov]

A humanist by education, but a former employee of the defense industry complex - will it do ??
If after a reasonable time to replace the crew - up to structural wear and tear - i.e. maybe decades.

[ver_]

... what level of radiation on the moon does not say a former employee of the defense industry?

[Henderson]

When using the “Krechet” spacesuit for tabular values ​​of the radiation intensity, the radiation dose will be 5 mrad / day. X-ray radiation protection is provided by 1,2-1,3 mm of aluminum sheet, reducing the radiation intensity by ~ e9 = 7600 times. When using a thinner sheet of aluminum, radiation doses increase: for 0,9 mm Al - 15 mrad / core, for 0,6 mm Al - 120 mrad / core.

According to the IAEA, such a radiation background is recognized as a normal condition for humans.
It is enough to regularly change the crew approximately as on the ISS, and everything will be in order.

[Indifferent]

Where did these unreal numbers come from? What sore head? Half attenuation layer for gamma radiation 3cm lead. Didn’t they teach this at school? And here a millimeter of aluminum will weaken a thousand times !!! Complete nonsense!!!! Learn physics for 8th grade !!!!

[Henderson]

Quote: indifferent

Half attenuation layer for gamma radiation 3cm lead.

You would rub your eyes first and see what it is about x-ray radiation.

Quote: indifferent

Learn physics for 8th grade !!!!

Would you start with yourself to start

[pafegosoff]

Do we need it? At least the first, at least the thirty-first? Again drank money pensioners?

[bratchanin3]

And this is the right decision, I personally approve of it.

[wax]

Stop working for the USA. Glazyev's Prime Ministers!

[Indifferent]

Did you run after Musk, trying to "slip into the last carriage"? And what are they going to fly on? At the Union? Dock to it a booster module launched by another rocket? This can, of course, and not so expensive than building a Heavy rocket, for which there is always not enough money. They steal a lot! But here I am concerned about one question. How is this Rogozin going to overcome the Van Allen radiation belts? Mask is a rogue. Collect money and declare bankruptcy. And who is Rogozin? After all, he is not a private trader, but the sovereign "fox"! Will he also declare bankruptcy as soon as the first cosmonauts bent over from radiation sickness? Which one is "smart" with the letter M? And in the orbit of the Moon, how will solar storms wait out when one is capable of destroying astronauts? Or will they choose in advance the madmen who are ready to die for the sake of glory? Or according to Brezhnev: "will they fly only at night"? There are a lot of questions. There is only one answer. You need to cut the loot !!!!

[Henderson]

Bradschizophrenic stages according to Konrad (Conrad K., 1958) - characterize the dynamics of delusional formation in acute schizophrenia. The initial stage - trema - corresponds to the picture of a delusional mood; its main signs are anxiety, confusion. After it comes the stage of apophenia, that is, actually delusional. Apophenia corresponds to the concepts of "delusional presentation" and "delusional perception". There is a changed awareness of the environment. Apophenia is characterized by the egocentric, soliptic position of the patient. A changed abnormal experience of the environment (anastrophy) is manifested in the fact that everything that happens around is put by the patient in connection with his personality (cf. the phenomenon of appropriation). Apophenia is replaced by either an apocalyptic stage, or "consolidation" or "residual defect." The apocalyptic stage is manifested by the disintegration of the patient's integral perception of the environment, everything around him is perceived by him in accordance with some special meaning, the meaning of the surrounding objects. The apocalyptic corresponds to the patient's experiences with acute catatonia.

[aristok]

Quote: Henderson

.. The apocalyptic stage is manifested by the breakdown of the patient’s whole perception of the surroundings, everything around him is perceived by him in accordance with some special meaning, the meaning of the surrounding objects ....

Are you preparing a draft for a dispute with proponents of astrology in any of the forums?
..
For example, I consider this a waste of time -
- only a schizoid and paranoid can argue on the Internet
with those who believe in zodiacs, flat earth and other nonsense.
It logically follows from here:
all nasa defenders are
or schizos (they consider the position of skeptics a nonsense but at the same time spend time arguing)
either propagandists (acting out of selfish goals),
or gregarious animals following a propagandist or schizo he loved

[Henderson]

Propaganda is an attempt to present the impending failure of the Russian lunar program and the departure from the international partnership on the lunar station as an achievement.

[albibek]

https://youtu.be/mPLcx2-W67s
14:17 - the time of the video. Here is the photoshop code in the photo code of the LRO moon sites. And then comes a detailed analysis of the on-board computer device with diagrams, diagrams and a description of the work.
Here is a part of the original schemes:
http://klabs.org/history/history_docs/mit_docs/1029.pdf
But everything is in English. It is proved that the on-board computer KM and LM were and are just dummies, with idle memory, with an incomplete circuit and a bunch of mistakes. - In short, they didn’t even try. Then the same goes for spacesuits, more precisely, that the life support systems of spacesuits are also just dummies. And so on, on.
http://www.retrothing.com/2008/09/build-your-own.html
Here, some created a copy of the Apollo on-board computer, and there are interesting comments on this page. I translated in google translator:
"Pascal Xavier said ...

Sorry, but I'm not interested in creating a replica of a piece of junk.
I am a professional computer engineer working in high-tech systems, in real-time applications.
I also have a good education in the field of electronics and automation (I am an engineer in aerospace engineering by education).
And everything that I saw about the computer for controlling Apollo leaves me to think that this is just a piece of trash:
The operating system is the strangest thing I've ever seen, full of incoherence and absurdities.
, Programs are full of syntax and logic errors
, And the computer's memory could not even work; and not only the memory of the main core, which is a complete joke, but even erasable memory.
They provide diagrams in the documentation, which, no doubt, cannot work.
I would like to believe in Apollo, but I can’t.
Reply 12 December 2011 at 11:02 "

[albibek]

Why did they close the lunar epic? Let's try to compare some facts:
1. <January 15, 1973 Lunokhod-2 was delivered to the moon by the automatic interplanetary station "Luna-21". The landing took place in Lemonnier crater on the eastern edge of the Sea of ​​Clarity, 172 kilometers from the Apollo 17 landing site.> - From Wikipedia.
2. On January 27, 1973, the Paris Ceasefire Agreements in Vietnam were signed. In March 1973, the United States finally withdrew its troops from South Vietnam, with the exception of 20 thousand military advisers. America continued to provide the South Vietnamese government with enormous military, economic and political assistance. In April 1975, as a result of the lightning operation Ho Chi Minh, the North Vietnamese troops under the command of the legendary General Vo Nguyen Zap defeated the demoralized South Vietnamese army left without allies and captured all of South Vietnam. >
3. gifts to Brezhnev from Nixon - look for Cadillacs, Lincoln, the KAMAZ plant, pipelines to Europe, etc.

[Andrey Vitalyevich]

Rogozin was bought by Merikos for a long time ...... therefore they fell

[Andrey Vitalyevich]

and engines not for 390 lyam, but for 260 ... cottages, yachts, penthouses ...... earned by works of righteous

[Cannonball]

Sergey GoncharovSo the Saturn program was closed back in the early 70s. By the 80s, manufacturing firms had long been busy with other projects, and no one was going to allocate money for the new Saturns.

[Cossack 471]

If only we were not harnessed to this crazy waste of money! Amerikosy themselves still print. and we ?

[Klaus]

Dmitry Olegovich should have been glad that the Americans are still talking to us, especially after the message about trampolines. Because now Rogozin will need a trampoline, since there’s absolutely nothing to provide infrastructure to fly to the Moon. Heavyweight, capable of putting at least 100 tons of payload into orbit, is absent as a class in Russia. And without such carrying capacity, there is simply nothing to do on the moon. The maximum that you can run there is 6 tons on the Proton. But the Americans have a choice like in a supermarket: both SLS and Falcon heavy and Blue origin. And Orion will be lucky to the moon 6 astronauts, and not 4 as a Federation. Therefore, it is strange to hear how Roscosmos begins to swing rights without ANYTHING except morally obsolete Unions and heptyl Protons.
The technology for producing orbital modules has been lost: an example of this is Nauka (a twin of Zarya, as part of the ISS), which has been under construction since 98 20!!! years old. And it is far from the fact that it will be included in the station. And what do we want from the Americans? So that they take us to the moon, pay the most, and still follow the standards of building space stations half a century ago? After all, both Zarya and Nauka and the multipurpose VOC module are nothing more than variations of the Salyut orbital housing module, of the 70s of the last century. That is: nothing fundamentally new has been done in the Russian Federation. Whereas the Americans now have recoverable stages and, attention, a fundamentally new type of inflatable living module "Beam", which is now being tested as part of the ISS.