Terms of construction "Karakurtov" under threat of failure

Terms of construction of the IRA project 22800 "Karakurt" can be shifted to the right due to non-compliance with the terms of delivery of power plants diesel engine plant "Star", writes Mil.Press FlotProm.

We are talking about M-507D-1-OM3 diesel engines for Karakurts, which are being built at the Pella shipbuilding enterprise. Even today, the delivery delay for two engines is a year (moved from September 2017 to September 2018 of the year). However, it is also unrealistic to receive them by the new date.

In July, “Pella” reported on the suit filed by Zvezda in the amount of 500 million rubles.

According to sources, publications, power plants for the ISCs are waiting at the Zelenodolsk shipyard.

Earlier, the resource wrote that, against the background of a shortage of engines, Chinese units were offered to the Russian defense-industrial complex. However, shipbuilders criticized this idea. It was also reported that Kingisepp Machine Building Plant (KMZ) announced its readiness to manufacture М507 diesel engines. According to the CEO, the company will master the production of 10 engines per year. Currently KMZ interacts with "Star" and other plants in order to obtain design documentation for the engine.

Recall, "Star" is not the first time delaying the delivery of diesel engines for the ships of the Navy. Thus, the delivery times of two M-503М-1 engines for Alexandrite minesweepers and two ship diesel generators DGAS-315М for ships of the same type were disrupted. In the first case, deliveries were delayed for almost a year, in the second - by 4-6 months.

Comments

[crest]

Can still be engaged in the construction of destroyers, not boats. In Syria, almost all the air defense of our grouping of ships is provided by the Marshal Ustinov BOD, a Soviet-built cruiser.

[Chertt]

Have you read the article? The military-industrial complex has problems with engines for corvettes. And about the project of a new destroyer, in general, we can speak only hypothetically

[Piramidon]

Quote: comb

Can still do the construction of destroyers

Do you have engines for them?

[spektr9]

Do you have engines for them?

If there are no engines, then it's time to build ships with a nuclear power plant, since such problems

[Alexey RA]

Quote: spektr9

If there are no engines, then it's time to build ships with a nuclear power plant, since such problems

And we smoothly go to the EM "Leader".

[Orkraider]

And we smoothly go to the EM "Leader". smile

Yeah. Only if you look at the reason for the delay in the icebreakers 44440, then there is also a delay due to the steam turbine. True, there is visible the time when the Kirov plant will give the order.
In general, my opinion, we need a planned loading of factories, and the absence of throwing, then at a certain moment we will go to a rhythmic release. Sooner or a little later, but the series will begin.

By the way, everything is not so bad with Karakurt; today it is pulled down in Crimea! On Pella, three in a row are handsome. Everyone can find photos in the public domain.

[faiver]

Since when did the missile cruiser in the BOD re-qualify?

[ANCIENT]

crest - we put paddles on the sides of the destroyers, and cruisers will sail

[tlauicol]

Well, where are the punishment lists?

[Andrey K]

... Recall, "Star" is not the first time delaying the supply of diesel engines for ships of the Navy ...

It is time to use the power already.

[Bull Terrier]

Lists of whom? I’ll lose the court; they’ll get stuck on money, this is the punishment.

[Awaz]

urapatriotic, shapkozidatelny statements were made by the leaders of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation. Local people expressed very serious concern about such "Napoleonic" plans of the elite. Among other things, the top and the upper layer between them and production is the godfather, brother, matchmaker ... Well, how do you imagine who and how will look for the guilty here? The most they will get away with is the low qualifications of the workers, as well as the irresponsibility of these same workers who refuse to work for 20 thousand a month for 12 hours for the good of "Motherland"

[Gladius]

"Shoot!" Stalin, Joseph Vissarionovich;)

[Chertt]

No, as under Peter the Great. The production failed to cope with the state defense order -nationalized, and transferred to another, more efficient owner (and you can leave the state)

[atakan]

If you follow the plans like Peter, then you need to build with raw iron and catch slaves and debtors to build. )
And invite managers from Nagliya, after launching the vessel, the ships should rust through in a couple of years.) Now, according to the canon. And mortality% 30.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: comb

BOD "Marshal Ustinov", Soviet-built cruiser.

BOD ... Big anti-submarine ship! In accordance with the name, the ships of the class are designed primarily to combat potential enemy submarines in the oceanic zone. This is another class of ships Cruiser is a ship of a different purpose !!! "Marshal Ustinov", Soviet-built cruiser. "Marshal Ustinov" - Soviet and Russian missile cruiser, the second ship of the project 1164 "Atlant" According to this, the air defense is different. ...

[ANCIENT]

here you have the notorious import substitution, the more so, officials who fed us back here, fed us with fairy tales that everything was replaced with ukroin since the 15th year, zero result, obviously the lobby arm of Chinese scrap metal is visible

[Detnix]

Star, this is diesel, Ukraine gas turbine engines.

[Andrey Vitalyevich]

and here is a question for the officials who have increased the turnover with the ukrovermacht ... a lot of questions ... to charge the "revolvers" .....

[senima56]

Comrade Stalin resolved such issues quickly and clearly: the director of the plant to the workers, the chief engineer and the chief technologist at the "construction sites of the national economy in Siberia." And be sure that the next management of the plant will not miss the deadline! In the meantime, we do not have "personal responsibility" - so we will "scratch our turnips"!

[ANCIENT]

unfortunately, there is no Stalin in this world since the 53rd year and the problem had to be solved yesterday

[Servisinzhener]

I remembered a bike about a meeting with Beria about the delay in the creation of the S-25 air defense system. On which he stopped the report of the general designer with the words: No need to talk about the change in the wavelength used in the radar. You give me the last name.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: senima56

Comrade Stalin resolved such issues quickly and clearly: the director of the plant to the workers, the chief engineer and the chief technologist at the "construction sites of the national economy in Siberia."

This is some alternative Stalin for you.
Because in real life, for a one-year delay in the production of the already adopted M-88 engine, no one was hurt. This engine a few months after the start of production was discontinued and sent for six months of refinement - due to numerous design and manufacturing defects. As a result of these perturbations, the program for re-equipping Long-Range Aviation with DB-3F was disrupted (there simply were no engines), and the Su-2 was also hit.
And I still don’t remember the history of the refinement of the V-2 diesel engine, which reached the indicators specified in the technical specifications only in the second half of the war.

[sergei28]

storyteller, half of the design bureau was "punished"

[abc_alex]

No. You have confused something. "There" they brought together two programs and the B-2 essentially became a converted aircraft diesel engine, and the design bureau from Ukraine was put aside. But no one was punished for low reliability. And in general, under Stalin, delays in the supply of components and assemblies were not at all rare, and as a rule, the terms of acceptance for service of new models were disrupted. Remember the epics with tanks of the pre-war period. And, by the way, Manilovism in those days was very widespread.

[faiver]

and what problems does the Zvezda diesel plant have?

[Ros 56]

We have no problems with engines for naval vessels, we have problems with the heads and pockets of officials, we would try not to do so under I. Stalin. Enough to liberalize, it's time to plant with confiscation, not for a year, but at least for a piece of gold, without the right to parole. Otherwise, the country will wither.

[faiver]

Otherwise, the country will be shamed

- one gets the feeling that already ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ros 56

We have no problems with engines for naval vessels, we have problems with the heads and pockets of officials, we would try not to do so under I. Stalin.

Mwa ha ha ... yes easy. For LC 23, the plant delayed boilers for 2 years. And another plant generally avoided concluding an agreement on GTZA. I had to buy a GTZA for the lead ship in Switzerland.
On serial ships the same parsley was going on - for part of the "sevens" they had to order GTZA already in Great Britain.

[Rzzz]

Germany for its battleships also ordered TZA in Switzerland, also from Brown-Boveri. Why are we worse?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: rzzz

Germany for its battleships also ordered TZA in Switzerland, also from Brown-Boveri. Why are we worse?

What does Germany have to do with it? Topikstarter claims that in the USSR spawn this was notso that for the ships the engines do not turn in time:

Quote: Ros 56

would try not to do under I. Stalin

In fact, the problems with "small fleet" and "large fleet" were the same.

[Detnix]

A completely collapsed plant in every sense, personnel first. I recently listened to a Lean expert trying to advise them, the answer was "you are the smartest or what." With a plan for a year, 56 engines produce 10 (!!), with a wild amount of rejects in the production process for hundreds of millions of rubles, the culture of production and the thought of employees is practically absent.

[barclay]

And we have a culture in many places is missing. Apparently, this also affects production.
Of course, there are reasons for the disruption of production. It is not clear just why no one is engaged in eliminating them, since this is not the first time.

[Detnix]

They do not know how, do not want. This expert had mercy, and then told them their problem for free, no one even said thank you !!

[igorra]

Salaries are not normal, so normal ones do not go to the factory. This is when workers say in Putin’s eyes that the salary is 30-40 thousand, but he doesn’t believe it is about 70. I think that for 70 thousand you can invite specialists or those who want to raise their level, rather than stay on the work day. The motto of the 90s: as they pay, we have not canceled the work.

[Rzzz]

In general, the designers of this ship had to be fired for using the "Zvezdinsky" machines with a note of complete incompetence. Ship of the 21st century .... Everything is so progressive ... Stealth type ... With diesels from the 60s. Star Monster, 8 Stars x 7 Cylinders = 56 Cylinders! With monstrous fuel consumption. With a resource before overhaul of about 2000 hours. Capital, and just more or less seriously repair which is possible only at the plant.
These diesel engines 30 years ago had to be discontinued, and the latter sent to the museum of technical curiosities.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: rzzz

Star monster, 8 stars of 7 cylinders = 56 cylinders!

Hmmm ... if you remember how many problems Pratt & Whitney R-4360-25 had with their only 28th cylinders.

Two are turning, two are burning, two are smoking, two are choking, and two are gone somewhere (two turning, two burning, two smoking, two choking, and two more unaccounted for)

[Rzzz]

By the way, I got a little more confused, mixed up with the m-504. Here, the 56-cylinder is just the m-504. And what is used here, the m-507 is an assembly of two 56-cylinder diesel engines operating in a common gear. 112 cylinders in the unit, 448 valves!
Damn, well, it's cool of course, to get 10 thousand horses from an assembly weighing 17 tons, but it seems to me that somehow you need to put the SEU in a wrong way. You need a couple of normal diesels with a good resource and less power for economical patrolling and a gas turbine for speed - about the same as on albatrosses, but there are the same 507 diesel engines, but we need less. Would rattle nodes 15 - in general there would be beauty.

[DPN]

The time of socialism has passed, when everything was according to the PLAN, now capitalism and most importantly receive an order and strip money to the top, they will not remain in the loser anyway, they will remain millionaires.

[APASUS]

For all its western orientation, South Korea has not announced sanctions to us. Well, since you are afraid to depend on imports, build a joint venture with the Koreans in our territory

[Rzzz]

By the way, Doosan diesel engines (this is a ship division of Daewoo) are now being installed on our SECs instead of the Zvezdinsky M-401

[kefan]

Each problem has a name, surname, middle name ...

[Romanenko]

It's a shame to read this, of course, but it's still better to strain and make your own engines than to install Chinese ones. Yes, even German ones, any "not ours" should not be installed on our ships.

[Rzzz]

It is necessary to develop first, but they don’t give money for it, they give only for finished products. We do not agree to invest and wait, especially since everyone knows that most of the invested money is stolen.
The Chinese buy a license from Mana or Deutz, or even Vertils, and immediately begin to produce. Yes, they probably do not steal from them.