Military Review

Futile civil defense

103
This article will discuss the issue that receives very little attention - recommendations on civil defense in case of a nuclear strike and their effectiveness. I will begin directly with the main thesis: everything that is stated in manuals and manuals on civil defense in the event of a nuclear war is useless and in a real situation a nuclear strike will not work.


Examination of the existing literature on civil defense, in the part related to nuclear war, shows that the recommendations are at the level of the famous and, probably, many well-known work edited by V.I. Queen "Everyone should know and be able to".


This masterpiece is known, if not to everyone, then at least to many

This booklet was published in 1980's in several editions and large editions. Such instructions, brief and extensive, were generally divided into two parts. The first part was devoted to explaining what weapon mass destruction, how it works, that is, it outlined the necessary theory. The second part was devoted to what to do in a situation when it happened. We are now most interested in the second part, that is, practical recommendations.

The subject of analysis is practical recommendations in case of a nuclear explosion. I will have to stress this again, because it has been empirically found out that some readers read the article inattentively, and then write indignant comments.

So, what does the famous instruction recommend to do? In essence, there are two recommendations. The first is to take refuge in a shelter. The brochure “Everyone should know and be able to do it” says that the main means of civil defense in the event of a nuclear war are collective shelters (p. 9), and then there is a rather detailed analysis of what kind of shelters there are and how to build the simplest ones. The second recommendation is that if you were not allowed into the shelter or it turned out to be far away, then you need to lie face down on the ground, using some kind of shelter like holes, ditches, stumps, that is, anything that will not be thrown down or turned out shockwave, close your eyes. After the explosion has occurred, it is recommended to put on a protective equipment (gas mask or mask) and leave the affected area (p. 17).

Modern instructions (I took for example the handbook of AN Palchikov "Civil Defense and Emergencies", published in Saratov in 2014 for masters and bachelors of technical universities) also offer to take refuge in a shelter and use means of protection - a gas mask or a mask. In Palchikov’s manual, quite a lot of attention is paid to the warning and voice messages transmitted by radio, television or sound amplification, but among the variants of these voice messages there is no warning of a nuclear strike. About the accident at the nuclear power plant - there is. If people hide in shelters 10-15 minutes after receiving an alert, then ...

In general, all this is idle fiction for the simple reason that the population simply will not have these 10-15 minutes after the alert.

The fact is that the flight time of an intercontinental ballistic missile ranges from 10 minutes for a missile with a range of 1600 km to 37 minutes for a missile with a range of 12800 km. Data is given for optimal flight path. Deviations and maneuvers may slightly increase the flight time, but not by much. Apparently, 45 minutes for the most long-range intercontinental ballistic missile is the limit of flight time.

Futile civil defense

The general scheme of the flight of an intercontinental ballistic missile and its warheads

Rocket launch can be detected by satellite tracking systems in the active area by the torch of the engines running. These data can be obtained after 2-3 minutes after launch, but they do not provide any information about the flight path and, accordingly, about the affected area. Accurate data on the trajectory of missiles and warheads are received by missile attack warning system radars, which, as RVSN kindly informs us, have a detection range of about 6000 km. That is, roughly, the warhead will be detected in about 18 minutes before hitting the target. The trajectory will be calculated in a few seconds, the affected area will be determined, but then the factor that takes the transmission of the missile attack message takes time. In the system of the Strategic Missile Forces this time is small, in a matter of seconds, but this is how their communication system was designed for it. But we need to bring a warning of a rocket attack and a nuclear explosion to the population of the target area!

And here a surprise awaits us. The information on emergency warning systems, which is published by the Russian Emergencies Ministry and its regional divisions, states that the maximum alert period for the population in the Unified State Emergency Prevention and Response System (EMERCOM) 30 minutes after bringing it to high alert and 20 minutes after the declaration of an emergency. This time, as can be judged from the words of the head of the prospective development department of the Civil Defense Department of the EMERCOM of Russia, Vadim Garshin, runs from receiving the emergency information by the Ministry to the transmission of a message via communication channels (for example, via SMS messages from cellular operators). This is the actual practice of the current alert system. In addition, five more minutes are given for turning on the sirens and sending the voice message.

This warning system, which works well for typical emergencies, such as hurricanes, fires, floods, is absolutely not suitable for a nuclear attack. If we take the nuclear explosion for 0, then the sequence of events will be approximately as follows:

- 18 minutes - detection of warheads by missile defense radars;

- 17 minutes 30 seconds - determination of trajectories and areas of destruction;

- 17 minutes - notification of the Emergency Response Service (for simplicity, we assume that the transmission of a message from the Strategic Missile Forces to the Emergency Response Service goes automatically, but it takes time to activate the system and transmit the message);

- 16 minutes 30 seconds - obtaining information in the emergency system, the beginning of the preparation of the notification of the population (the received information must be recognized, which also takes time).

For simplicity, we assume that the notification of the population in case of a nuclear attack is carried out automatically, without a prior decision on the introduction of an emergency mode in the affected area, which is required by regulatory documents.

0 - nuclear explosion;

+ 3 minutes 30 seconds - completion of the preparation of the message in the emergency system and its transmission via communication channels;

+ 4 minutes - the inclusion of sirens and voice messages;

+ 9 minutes - termination of the siren signal and voice messaging.

In short, you're already roasted in the nuclear sun. It is quite obvious that the ESDS system will not be able to transmit a warning signal to the population in the event of a nuclear attack, since it is too slow and does not have time to bring the necessary information to the population in the remaining flight time of the warhead after it is detected by ABM radars. Communication systems in the area to be notified will be destroyed even before the ESAR has completed the preparation of the message.

Claims to the Russian Emergencies Ministry no. The existing warning system was not created for such extreme cases as a nuclear attack. For all other emergencies, it works quite well.


A typical example of SMS messages from the Russian Emergencies Ministry. Works great to alert you of an impending hurricane or the danger of forest fires.

The problem of alerting the public about a nuclear attack could have been solved if the SMF had the ability to activate sirens, transmit voice messages, and so on directly, immediately after calculating the trajectories and determining the areas of destruction of the detected ballistic missiles. Then, given the time to send a message, the population would have about 12 minutes left to hide.

Next moment. Even if you have time to reach the shelter, what awaits you there? That's right - the lock on the door. According to current practice, only a few shelters are maintained on a permanent basis to receive people, and such shelters usually have departmental affiliation. Soviet shelters, once intended to shelter the population, are either closed, or have long been repurposed and sold, or have come into complete disrepair.


Shelters in good condition are most often found in large enterprises. Artem Belousov, Deputy Head of the Main Directorate of the EMERCOM of Russia for the Yaroslavl Region, gave a press conference at the refinery in October 2017 in October.


But it often happens that way. Refuge Emergency Situations Ministry in the Moscow region, flooded after a breakdown of the water supply. It remained flooded for a long time, and it was drained in 2016 only after the publication of the photos.

In general, the recommendation to hide in shelters, which is contained in the manuals on civil defense, comes from the 1950-ies, when strategic bombers were the main carrier of nuclear weapons. For example, the “strategist” B-52 with a cruising speed of 820 km / hour, if it was found over the Northern Urals, would take two hours to reach Moscow and drop a nuclear bomb. For two hours, you can spend a full warning of the population, the population will gather, will reach the shelters, will be located in them and will wait for a nuclear explosion. Not the fact that he will be - the enemy "strategist" may even fall down the road.

If you have at your disposal the entire 10 minutes, then fleeing to the shelter is meaningless, even if it were open and ready to accept. It is necessary to realize the situation and suppress the first attack of fear and panic (not everyone can do it instantly), take the most necessary things and documents, go outside and get to the shelter. It should be borne in mind that you will not be alone, and a thick crowd will rush to the shelter, which slows down the movement. If you are on the upper floors of a residential building or a business building, then it will take a lot of time to go down the stairs, also crowded with people. In real life, getting to the shelter in 10 minutes is completely unrealistic. Whoever does not believe, can arrange such a teaching for himself and detect the time it took from some arbitrary moment (conditional notification) until the door of asylum was reached.

This is the paradox of civil defense in modern conditions - to rush into a shelter means to dramatically increase your chances of dying, if not from a nuclear explosion, then from a crush in a crowd of similarly fleeing ones.

For conditions of atomic bombing from airplanes, a recommendation to lie down and take cover before a nuclear explosion is good. First, because the people left in the open air, heard the sirens and messages, they know that there will be an explosion soon. Secondly, the “strategist” hum is well heard, and heard far. This makes it possible to determine the approximate direction of the explosion and to find shelter. With good weather, a bomber is even clearly visible, as well as a falling bomb. For example, Japanese corporal Yasuo Kuwahara, an eyewitness to the explosion in Hiroshima, saw in front of him both a plane and a bomb dropped by him.

The warhead is almost invisible and barely audible. If this is the warhead of the most long-range ballistic missile, then it approaches the target at a speed of about 7,5 km / s and at an angle of 25 degrees to it, that is, almost horizontally. A flying warhead will most resemble a meteorite or a meteor - a bright yellow-red line in the sky. Without a warning (which, as we found out above, it will be a few minutes after the explosion), the warhead is very difficult, almost impossible to distinguish from a meteorite.


Is it a meteorite or a nuclear warhead? In the photo, the fall of a meteor in the Domodedovo area, taken by a DVR in 2017. The warhead will look exactly the same

People will most likely stand and stare at her, thinking that they are watching a meteorite fall. Only this time the outcome of the spectacle will be somewhat different - suddenly and blindingly blindingly blindingly dazzling white, all absorbing light.

Therefore, recommendations for a nuclear strike, which are in the instructions on civil defense, are completely unsuitable for modern conditions and useless. Once they made sense, but already in the 1970-s, these recommendations are hopelessly outdated and even become harmful. The circumstances of a nuclear strike with ballistic missiles are such that it will be suddenly in any case and will not leave time for shelter. We need a completely different method of civil defense in case of a nuclear war.
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103 comments
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  1. Bongo
    Bongo 17 September 2018 05: 28
    +21
    We need a completely different method of civil defense in case of a nuclear war.

    What? what
    In general, the concept of "Civil Defense" is somewhat broader than that set forth in this publication, which deals with timely notification and protection of the population in shelters.
    If nuclear weapons are used in large cities, the consequences will be catastrophic, and the presence of bomb shelters and timely notification will not greatly change the consequences. Even if we withdraw the entire population from megalopolises, what will happen next? Especially this issue is relevant in the winter, with the destroyed housing stock, inactive power grids, lack of medical care and food supply.
    1. Titsen
      Titsen 17 September 2018 06: 43
      +7
      And then wild panic and imminent death from lack of water and food
      1. Vova Kabaev
        Vova Kabaev 21 October 2018 15: 10
        0
        There will be a slaughter, the strong will water the weak.
    2. Conductor
      Conductor 17 September 2018 07: 24
      +2
      With both hands for your point of view!
    3. avt
      avt 17 September 2018 08: 09
      +9
      Quote: Bongo
      What?

      Do not bother with questions to the author. Az sinful read
      I will start directly with the main thesis: everything that is set out in manuals and instructions on civil defense in the event of a nuclear war is useless and in a real situation a nuclear strike will not work.
      and somehow did not become further - another graphomaniac, and even survived a nuclear attack in an inflamed brain and is about to share "experience", well, judging by the categorical
      in a real situation, a nuclear strike will not work.
      He really has no idea about the development of the strategy of G.O. in USSR.
      Quote: Bongo
      Even if we remove the entire population from megacities, what will happen to it next?

      By the way, as a system, they were engaged in the USSR in the 80s. It was the evacuation and placement in the event of a strike on the cities with a population of millions. still vysoky.A this opus .... well, let it be on the conscience of the moderators V.O.If they are graphomaniacs who do not see the difference between a brochure for mass acquaintance and the SYSTEM of the state G.O. print in electronic form.
      Quote: Titsen
      And then wild panic and imminent death from lack of water and food

      It was for such people that they wrote these brochures, so that they could crawl to the source of clean water and train according to the Pavlov system — they worked out conditioned reflexes — on a signal to gather in a refuge and further to the evacuation center.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 September 2018 11: 29
        +8
        What are "instructions and brochures"? belay Who saw them in recent years? request If during the Soviet era, the aforementioned "manuals and brochures" were on the shelves in every bookstore, there were in the "Red Rooms" of enterprises, institutions, schools, universities; films were "played" in the classroom for military training; from time to time similar "educational films" were shown on television ... then who knows anything about this now? And anyway ... "objects" that were "under attack" are doomed ... surviving state bodies (including civil defense ...): 1. Preservation (and, if necessary, restoration) of local power in peripheral, regional settlements, ignored by the thief; establishing a connection between these points and submission to the new " center ", the organization of a new state." vertical "and" horizontal "... the struggle for the viability of the new structure and the strengthening of it. Announcement of all wartime regimes and plans 2. Rendering assistance to the surviving (!) population of the affected cities (but not saving the" suicide bombers "...) By the way, in the basements of the enterprises there were stocks of gas masks ... even in the apartment and in the country it was possible to find gas masks ... What about these basements? Commercial "closets" and "cheaper" offices for rent?
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 20 September 2018 12: 38
        +1
        The fact of the matter is that crawling to the source of water is the task of surviving the Ussurian tiger, one per hundred square meters. kilometers, well maybe villages in 50 yards, but not millions of people. In Leningrad, along the Road of Life, the flow of goods went non-stop, but this was completely insufficient to provide a two millionth city.
    4. Svarog51
      Svarog51 17 September 2018 10: 29
      +19
      Sergey, my respect hi I know a lot about alerting the population through the Ministry of Emergencies and Civil Defense and not by hearsay. Something I even had to participate in. The collapse of the USSR caused enormous damage to this system. Nearby, the largest textile industry enterprise is now reminiscent of an object after the apocalypse, and it also oversaw the survival of its workers in the immediate vicinity. There are practically no elementary "howlers" left in the city.
      There is another important factor in a nuclear explosion - the distance to it. "Kuz'kina's mother" is unlikely to be blown up, and with small-sized nuclear warheads, not everything is as straightforward as it is written in the article. There is still an option of salvation, again, if you do not succumb to panic at the very beginning. IMHO of course. You also need to take care of your family, but they can be anywhere. Why save your own skin if children die? First of all, I will save them.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 17 September 2018 11: 34
        +7
        Quote: Svarog51
        Sergey, my respect

        Greetings, Sergey! hi
        Quote: Svarog51
        About the notification of the population through the Ministry of Emergency Situations and civil defense I know a lot and not by hearsay. Something even had to participate. The collapse of the USSR caused enormous damage to this system.

        I suffered only on the warning system and bomb shelters, but also eliminated the warehouses where medicines, tents, stoves and much more were stored ...
        Quote: Svarog51
        There is another important factor in a nuclear explosion - the distance to it. "Kuz'kina's mother" is unlikely to be blown up, and with small-sized nuclear warheads, not everything is as straightforward as it is written in the article.

        Taking into account the fact that nuclear submarines with a capacity of 100-300 kt are installed on ICBMs and SLBMs, I would not dare to call them "small-sized". In general, the affected area can be calculated, the methods are freely available.
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 17 September 2018 11: 41
          +6
          Taking into account the fact that nuclear submarines with a capacity of 100-300 kt are installed on ICBMs and SLBMs, I would not dare to call them "small-sized".

          Yes, too much. Well, in this case, there is a chance to survive, at least for me. It is unlikely that the city at gunpoint, rather the division of the Strategic Missile Forces that we are based. And this is about 50 km to my hut, maybe more. Can I have time? wink In fact, check it - oh how I do not want to. stop
          1. bk316
            bk316 17 September 2018 17: 40
            +4
            It’s unlikely that the city at gunpoint,

            Hello, Sergey. Well, you probably have a chance. And in Moscow and the region there are so many "small-sized" items. Moreover, they will not regret the megatons. And they will also hit protected targets ...
            In general, you can not fuss. recourse Now, if I will be in the country at that time, yes, chances appear: a shelter, a well, food supplies and fuel - all mine.
            1. Svarog51
              Svarog51 18 September 2018 05: 26
              +3
              Vladimir, welcome hi Exactly! This is the minus of large industrial centers - they will be the first to be hit. And then how lucky. request
          2. maximghost
            maximghost 17 September 2018 19: 00
            +1
            Ivanovo Melaga District
            1. Svarog51
              Svarog51 18 September 2018 05: 28
              +2
              Yeah, Sosnevo yes Neighbors?
              1. maximghost
                maximghost 18 September 2018 10: 52
                +1
                Well, almost, I live in the area of ​​Lodz.
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 18 September 2018 10: 56
                  +2
                  Accepted, land! drinks How to handle by name? Well, my soul does not lie to these nicknames. request
                  1. maximghost
                    maximghost 18 September 2018 11: 38
                    +1
                    Maxim, in fact, I didn’t bother much with a nickname.
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 18 September 2018 13: 04
                      +2
                      Well, I assumed. I’ll throw off my coordinates through a PM, otherwise it’s possible to scoop up a flood.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 20 September 2018 12: 41
        +1
        10 ct fell on Hiroshima, it was enough for her. My city with concrete structures, of course, doesn’t seem to be relative, but the charge in 100 kt is not a problem, and everything outside the buildings within a radius of several kilometers will be roasted.
    5. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2018 11: 28
      +2
      I agree. I wonder if there is any program on AFTER. Or, as always, "the war will show the plan" and "the living but envy the dead"?
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 17 September 2018 18: 27
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        I agree. I wonder if there is any program on AFTER. Or, as always, "the war will show the plan" and "the living but envy the dead"?

        In the 70s and early 80s, it seems, was. Now why? Disability pension pay?
    6. Doliva63
      Doliva63 17 September 2018 18: 24
      +2
      Quote: Bongo
      We need a completely different method of civil defense in case of a nuclear war.

      What? what
      In general, the concept of "Civil Defense" is somewhat broader than that set forth in this publication, which deals with timely notification and protection of the population in shelters.
      If nuclear weapons are used in large cities, the consequences will be catastrophic, and the presence of bomb shelters and timely notification will not greatly change the consequences. Even if we withdraw the entire population from megalopolises, what will happen next? Especially this issue is relevant in the winter, with the destroyed housing stock, inactive power grids, lack of medical care and food supply.

      And then - all do not care. Ask, then there will be no one.
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 September 2018 19: 31
        +3
        Yeah, salt, sugar, matches and your machine gun! soldier
        Although for sure Uralmash and Elmash, something will fly, so I agree - do not care !!!
  2. Conductor
    Conductor 17 September 2018 07: 26
    +5
    A properly constructed civil defense system is a very necessary thing, and not only during a war. REMEMBER EARTHQUAKE a Ashgabat, Tashkent, Spitak.
    1. AUL
      AUL 17 September 2018 09: 25
      +3
      So after all, the article deals specifically with civil defense under conditions of a nuclear strike. There is no talk about other emergencies.
      1. alstr
        alstr 17 September 2018 09: 54
        +4
        So after all, an earthquake is the analogy of a nuclear explosion, because warning about it is usually late.
        At the same time, everyone in earthquake-prone areas is trained in behavior during an earthquake.
        In addition, the training "flash on the left" - "flash on the right" has not been canceled.
        Moreover, it is unlikely that anyone will implement the recommendations to have an alarming package to quickly grab and run out of the apartment (and this is not only useful in a nuclear explosion).



        About the shelters. The fact that they will not succeed in taking refuge in shelters is understandable. For example, working at the Telegraph in our building was a shelter. In GO training, we were able to get there in at least 5 minutes. And this is when everything is in one building. If you take the evacuation of any large shopping center, then the evacuation time will be at least 5 minutes.
        Therefore, the military and the country's leadership will have time to leave in the shelter. Megacities therefore will not be notified BEFORE the explosion (even if there is information and the ability to inform the population), because evacuation of the city, even a hundred thousand people, requires several hours.

        By the way, to inform earlier, at each enterprise, a telegraph apparatus MANDATORY (there was a special regime at the station), but now they have been removed. And in return they did nothing
        Therefore, there is no direct channel from the military to the Ministry of Emergencies and the means of a GUARANTEED warning.
        This is what we need to do.
        1. Cat
          Cat 17 September 2018 19: 54
          +6
          About earthquake!
          Last in the Urals, I "slept good", at least one dog in the kennel barked or the cat meowed. Although the mother-in-law says the father-in-law jumped up on the couch notably, to the beat of the chandelier and dishes.
          About the sirens. About ten years ago, the constipation of the siren siren on Elmash in Yekaterinburg broke down, she howled at night for two hours. About seven kilometers around, no one slept, but they didn’t run to the cellars either, sat on suitcases and waited - "would it explode or not?" On the one hand, it is funny to look at the illumination of light in all apartments of a small district of the city of a million people, but so that at least one remembers the rules of dimming or warning signals. Sad but ......
          Even the Ministry of Emergency Situations, which "extinguished" the howler, did not move to send out an SMS alert and reassure the residents. Sad .......
          And so training and exercises can solve many questions, but? It depends on how you spend them and what to invest in them. The exercises are held annually in government departments, schools, kindergartens and departmental institutions. In some, the circus in others is real and painstaking work. And who thinks who is more likely to survive?
          Sincerely, Kitty!
          1. 97110
            97110 19 September 2018 20: 17
            0
            Quote: Kotischa
            so training and exercises can solve many issues, but
            how to convince the owner living in Monaco to allow? If the second owner, who was stationed on B. Dmitrovka, was not immediately convinced either. He once carried out exercises on the collection of corpses and oil film ...
  3. tasha
    tasha 17 September 2018 07: 26
    +8
    We need a completely different method of civil defense in case of a nuclear war.

    We are waiting for the author’s suggestions ..
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 17 September 2018 13: 51
      +2
      Quote: tasha
      We are waiting for the author’s suggestions ..

      Expectations will be in vain. The article did not seem to be written for this. laughing And yes, if the author had specific proposals, then it seems that he would have made them public in the same article. And so - only the pursuit of the number of signs.
  4. Simargl
    Simargl 17 September 2018 07: 58
    +1
    In the event of a nuclear war, there should be 2 volumes of recommendations: 1 - "Preparing to survive before a possible war", 2 - "Survival after the bombing".
  5. Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 17 September 2018 08: 05
    +8
    And today, tomorrow, not everyone can watch. Rather, not only everyone can watch, few can do it
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 18 September 2018 03: 55
      +1
      Quote: Olddetractor
      And today, tomorrow, not everyone can watch. Rather, not only everyone can watch, few can do it

      Plagiarism, my friend, are we doing a little? wink
  6. akunin
    akunin 17 September 2018 08: 35
    +4
    There are no bomb shelters in the district, and if there are, we don’t know about them. There is no civil defense and the Ministry of Emergency Situations does not work in this direction at all. All sorts of members (members of everything) and possibly employees of enterprises not related to the defense will survive, partly residents of cities where there are metro, residents of remote villages (they won’t shoot there).
  7. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 17 September 2018 08: 46
    +4
    A ticket to Machu Picchu a week before Armageddon will solve your personal problems.

    hi

    But not everyone knows how to foresee the future.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 18 September 2018 03: 57
      +1
      Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
      But not everyone knows how to foresee the future

      And not everyone will have money for a ticket! recourse
  8. RuslanD36
    RuslanD36 17 September 2018 10: 12
    +2
    I wonder why the author believes that a warning will be given only after determining the trajectory. A warning will be given after multiple torches are detected. And this is 18 minutes, which was not enough.

    On the other hand, I agree, very few people know where the nearest bomb shelter is located.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 September 2018 17: 31
      +3
      Quote: RuslanD36
      On the other hand, I agree, very few people know where the nearest bomb shelter is located.

      I have it in my house, but it is locked, and in what condition is unknown. Never even been there. In general, I don’t remember the civil alarm in modern Russia, I remember only in the USSR in the early 80s, when we were an "evil empire".
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 September 2018 20: 37
        +3
        Yeah, and now we are white-white and fluffy-fluffy !!! good
        I don't know how anyone, but my "brother" is driven at least once a year + the rest of the nursery rhymes. So we worry about once every two months. Is it enough? I think not, in order to consolidate unconditioned reflexes, it is necessary at least twice a month and with different introductions.
        But to be honest how to organize this in civilian institutions I find it difficult to answer.
        Sincerely, Kitty!
        1. pilot69
          pilot69 18 September 2018 09: 35
          +2
          Laws should work, at least Art. 20.6 and Art. 20.7 of the admin code. When the enforcement of legislation will become cheaper than non-enforcement.
          In the meantime: - the severity of Russian legislation is offset by the non-binding nature of its implementation.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 18 September 2018 04: 12
        +3
        And I remember that at school in the classroom for military training, they trained to quickly put on a gas mask, the number of "your" gas mask was determined, they learned to choose the "ideal" one for you .... Even, they drove them through the gas tents ... and came to light! We got acquainted with chemical protection kits ... they laughed at the "paper" disposable capes ... They learned the "damaging factors of chemical and nuclear weapons" ... watched educational films on the topic: how to behave during a nuclear explosion and after ... when using chemical weapons. Romance! fellow Oh, how young we were ... how young we were .... recourse
  9. sergo1914
    sergo1914 17 September 2018 10: 33
    +2
    Actually, missiles from Western Europe will fly first. And this is 6 minutes. The author is right. Twitching is pointless. The choice will be to die quickly or die long and painfully. One technique - to prevent launches and bring down the maximum number of warheads on approach. Both are unrealistic. As for the deaf places. And where do you think mobile launchers ride? According to the Moscow Ring Road?
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 17 September 2018 11: 18
      +7
      Quote: sergo1914
      Twitching is pointless. The choice will be to die quickly or die long and painfully.

      Do not panic!
      If you do not take protective measures, then you yourself will ensure a really long and painful death.
      Even the simplest thing - to drop your feet to the outbreak of a nuclear explosion - will greatly reduce the severity of your defeat. The likelihood that you are in a fatal area standing human, EMNIP in 16 times higher than in other areas where the fall is really useless - it will kill and lying. This applies to damage in the same proportion: if it fell, then the probability of serious damage is approximately 16 times less than standing.
      The teacher brought these figures to us in the very first lesson on WMD in the school. To show that protection is not useless, on the contrary: competent actions reduce the likelihood of a nuclear explosion by dozens of times.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 17 September 2018 16: 20
        +2
        Quote: Svateev
        Quote: sergo1914
        Twitching is pointless. The choice will be to die quickly or die long and painfully.

        Do not panic!
        If you do not take protective measures, then you yourself will ensure a really long and painful death.
        Even the simplest thing - to drop your feet to the outbreak of a nuclear explosion - will greatly reduce the severity of your defeat. The likelihood that you are in a fatal area standing human, EMNIP in 16 times higher than in other areas where the fall is really useless - it will kill and lying. This applies to damage in the same proportion: if it fell, then the probability of serious damage is approximately 16 times less than standing.
        The teacher brought these figures to us in the very first lesson on WMD in the school. To show that protection is not useless, on the contrary: competent actions reduce the likelihood of a nuclear explosion by dozens of times.


        Well yes. And I also remember "holding the machine gun on outstretched arms so that drops of molten metal do not burn through the state boots." There will be a disaster. Global. Nobody will stop at tactical ammunition. The whole list will work. And then fall headlong to the epicenter or feet ...
    2. kakvastam
      kakvastam 17 September 2018 15: 00
      -1
      Quote: sergo1914
      And where do you think mobile launchers ride?

      They will work on mobile launchers before striking with completely different means, since after the strike there is a real chance to strike into the void.
      Large connections, industrial and transport hubs will cover. There are not so many charges.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 17 September 2018 16: 22
        -1
        Quote: kakvastam
        Quote: sergo1914
        And where do you think mobile launchers ride?

        They will work on mobile launchers before striking with completely different means, since after the strike there is a real chance to strike into the void.
        Large connections, industrial and transport hubs will cover. There are not so many charges.


        I think the attempt to do something with mobile launchers in the relevant instructions is interpreted as an act of aggression and requires an immediate response.
  10. Signaller
    Signaller 17 September 2018 10: 48
    +3
    In fact, it all starts LONG from the start of missile launch. Therefore, it is necessary to prepare for everything bad .. And I think so, and the notification structure will also be ready for everything bad ..
    1. NIKN
      NIKN 17 September 2018 11: 34
      +3
      Quote: Signaller
      +2
      In fact, it all starts LONG from the start of missile launch.

      I agree. I believe that in 2-3 days, or even earlier, competent people will know about the possibility of applying nuclear weapons, I believe that the tasks of those people include responsibilities to prevent the death of the population, and how, whether to hide everyone, or preventive YaU apply, they should be planned now.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 17 September 2018 18: 41
        +3
        Quote: NIKNN
        Quote: Signaller
        +2
        In fact, it all starts LONG from the start of missile launch.

        I agree. I believe that in 2-3 days, or even earlier, competent people will know about the possibility of applying nuclear weapons, I believe that the tasks of those people include responsibilities to prevent the death of the population, and how, whether to hide everyone, or preventive YaU apply, they should be planned now.

        In the distant Soviet years, it seems, the signal "atomic danger" (not literally) for the civilian population was transmitted not after the launch of the missiles, but when there was such a possibility. And the people in the course of the day went to the assigned shelters, looked for their cells with means of protection, settled in their strictly prescribed places. I remember such training as a child. Then they sat there for another 10-12 hours to get used to the rules - toilet, food, emergency exit, etc. In the army, there was also such a signal on the alarm panel. But, I remember, there was also Zarevo-666, this is when the missile launch was already detected, in my opinion.
      2. 97110
        97110 19 September 2018 20: 27
        0
        Quote: NIKNN
        they should be planned now.

        It is difficult to approve the draft plan: a person who has the right to sign will evade this right for all 18 minutes.
  11. Igor V
    Igor V 17 September 2018 11: 20
    0
    The adversary has several lists of goals, and not all cities and towns will fall into the first. And for working out the following lists there is time that the author does not have enough. And the first wave will not start at the same time, and will be intercepted, at least partially. So there are chances.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 17 September 2018 11: 29
      +7
      Quote: Igor V
      The adversary has several lists of targets, and not all cities and villages will fall into the first one.

      Given the fact that the bulk of the US strategic nuclear forces are located on a SSBN, the strike will be somewhat stretched over time. At the same time, the flight time of an SLBM launched from submarines may be substantially less than that of a silo-based ICBM.
      Quote: Igor V
      And the first wave will not start simultaneously, and will be intercepted, at least partially.

      Forgive intercepted? We have a fairly limited on the capabilities of missile defense is available only in the suburbs.
  12. BAI
    BAI 17 September 2018 11: 50
    +1
    When a nuclear attack begins, nothing will help. Especially when you consider that there are missiles with a shorter approach time. All the same, there will be a threatened period - it is during this period that we must dump away from potential targets of attack.
    1. Cat
      Cat 17 September 2018 20: 51
      +2
      If the city is a million people, especially with a transport system such as Yekaterinburg, where there are five from north to south, I emphasize five through conveyor lines, and only four from south to north. And you conditionally live in the neighborhood of UZTM, ZIK and Turbinka, be sure that at least a dozen ballistic missiles are aimed at each of the above plants. So there's no place to smear your heels! Only in the basement and hope to sit out for 60 cm of concrete.
      Well, if the case has mercy and you will be in the village, then we will fight again !!! laughing
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 19 September 2018 17: 45
        +1
        Quote: Kotischa
        If the city is a million people, especially with a transport system such as Yekaterinburg, where there are five from north to south, I emphasize five through conveyor lines, and only four from south to north. And you conditionally live in the neighborhood of UZTM, ZIK and Turbinka, be sure that at least a dozen ballistic missiles are aimed at each of the above plants. So there's no place to smear your heels! Only in the basement and hope to sit out for 60 cm of concrete.
        Well, if the case has mercy and you will be in the village, then we will fight again !!! laughing

        I forgot at Krasnoflotsev 23 or nearby, where the kindergarten used to be, in the basement there is a wonderful refuge in excellent condition, even there is billiards with a sauna - at one time the director of the municipal unit Zeleny Gorodok tried. On Bauman, 3, from the yard - also, although ownerless and neglected, but quite alive. This is offhand.
  13. Tektor
    Tektor 17 September 2018 12: 04
    +1
    In the case of a nuclear strike, there are 2 options for the development of events. 1 - this is when a loud broadcast with a warning before the explosion went off. 2 is when the flash has already occurred. In 1 case, you need to have time to hide from the shock wave in any closed room without windows. Usually it is a toilet, a bathroom, a niche in the corridor, basement, sewage, etc. You need to have time to put on a gas mask to protect yourself from the shock wave, if any. Or cover your eyes, nose, mouth and ears with your fingers. In the 2nd case, you urgently need to hide behind the corner of any structure in the shadow of the flash light, and also cover your eyes, nose, mouth and ears with your fingers.
    If you survived after passing the shock wave, then you have 20 minutes to get out of the city: you need to move approximately perpendicular to the wind, if it comes from the epicenter. If you are lucky and the wind blows in the direction of the epicenter, then you have a time car for any actions. You need to break out of the city by voting on the road. Remember! The only chance to escape is to get out of the city.
    1. vadimtt
      vadimtt 18 September 2018 15: 17
      +4
      A lot of inaccuracies.
      1. A gas mask from a shock wave will not help.
      2. At first, a gas mask is not needed at all, it will simply hamper your actions.
      3. With your fingers (there was already a flash), you don’t need to cover your nose, mouth and ears (and how are you going to do this at the same time? Not only to reduce the risk of barotrauma, on the contrary you need to open your mouth very much and breathe calmly shallow), you just need to lie on belly, covering the back of the head with palms.
      4. The wind does not matter at the moment, because if you survived a shock wave from a warhead of 100-300 kT, then active aerosols will not reach you soon.
      5. It is necessary to get out of the city according to anyone, trying to avoid large crowds, remembering that the second gift may come in time and the second and there may be a flurry of fire from fires. But you don’t need to vote, because it is useless (where did you get this from?). Not only that, after EMR not so many cars will be able to move, and those that can will fly in full swing in panic, with the risk of smearing you on the hood.
      6. After half an hour, it makes sense to put on a gas mask and continue on foot to get out of the city.
      7. 2-3 hours in the explosion zone, where the blast wave did not kill you, will have little effect on your radiation safety. In the first 15 seconds of the explosion, you will get much more if you find yourself in an open place.
      8. All this is useless if you are not lucky to look in the direction of the flash before and during its appearance. You won’t be able to blink, turn away, or do something else there.
      Like all hi
  14. Digital error
    Digital error 17 September 2018 12: 19
    +4
    What is needed is not a technique, but a guaranteed retaliation. If the interests of those responsible for deciding on retaliation are in NATO countries, retaliation is not guaranteed.
  15. martin-159
    martin-159 17 September 2018 13: 07
    +3
    In the USSR there was a civil defense, in modern Russia it is not. That's all. A training manual from damaging factors will not hide.
  16. Li17
    Li17 17 September 2018 13: 27
    0
    Dear Colleagues! The use of nuclear weapons is essentially the end of civilization. Well, now I call - Tskhinval, Donetsk region, Lugansk region, Crimea (there was a chance) ... Who could think about this? In addition, the civil defense has the function of protecting and saving the population in catastrophes and accidents. At one time, I worked on maps of the flood zone during the bombing of Tsymly (here, Krymsk came to mind), the blast-accident of the ammonia storage at the plant (this is similar in the Crimea and the Kherson region). We are arguing about shelters here, but the main thing was also warehouses with various property, and I would never have thought that in my town there was such a warehouse in an inconspicuous place, very solid! And of course, the questions of training, in my time, NVP, now OBZh (I don’t know how now, but in 2000 it was). So the article in the discussions clearly answers about the global use of nuclear weapons by its name, but in matters of everyday survival the system must be prepared! By the way, the survival course is being seriously worked out in the Armed Forces, I think it's not in vain.
  17. Shopping Mall
    Shopping Mall 17 September 2018 14: 03
    0
    The SMP requires the following (3 Action Groups):

    1.
    1.1 Disable high-rise residential buildings. At all. Buildings no higher than 3's floors (this will also solve the problem of parking in the courtyards, overloading utility networks, etc.).
    1.2 All buildings must be equipped with a basement capable of withstanding the collapse of the upper floors.
    1.3 Heating each house individual gas mini-boiler room. It is simpler to restore damaged gas pipes than a heating main, since frozen water all burst (this is after the impact). If the boiler house can work on liquid fuel, then it will be quite good.
    1.4 Audit of existing buildings on the resistance to damaging factors Ya.O. and finding nearby shelters.
    1.5 Encourage taxes and loans to save energy and green energy, dwell autonomy.

    2.
    2.1 Mandatory installation of an EMERCOM application on a smartphone and the introduction of the corresponding warning function into it. Not just SMS shouting, but a full output of a smartphone at maximum volume, siren, voice message.
    2.2 Displays recommendations indicating what is best to do — run to the basement of your building, to a nearby bomb shelter, or something else.
    2.3 If you need to run somewhere, then I will bind Yandex maps with an indication of the route.

    3.
    3.1 Make a short and capacious training how to behave in different ch.s. before, during and after. Mandatory study in schools and in the state. enterprises. Just get her to write professionals, and not any bureaucrats. And then give it to readability.
    3.2 A short and capacious list of necessary things for self-collection is an alarming briefcase (I understand that very few people will collect it, but consciously it is necessary to simplify the task).
    3.3 Standard alarm case at an affordable (state) price (1-2 TR) with a long shelf life.
    3.4 As an option p.3.3. - mandatory purchase by analogy with a first-aid kit in a car.
    3.5 As an option, 3.3 is issued for free 1 once every N years.

    Together, it can significantly increase the survival rate of the population.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2018 15: 34
      +3
      The first two paragraphs fail on all points
      1. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 17 September 2018 16: 41
        0
        Rather, great difficulties arise only with the first.

        For the second, what are the problems? The same Yandex perfectly cope with this application.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 September 2018 16: 57
          +2
          Before the blow. All civilian high tech will die after the EMP. Meanwhile, heating control systems, water and power supply (even autonomous), this is also a civilian "hi-tech", up to three-way electric valves.
          1. bk316
            bk316 17 September 2018 17: 48
            +1
            Meanwhile, heating control systems, water and electricity (even autonomous),

            I don’t know a public hi-tech, but a personal one underground in metal caissons. How will the EMR get there?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 September 2018 18: 37
              -1
              What does personal mean?
              1. bk316
                bk316 18 September 2018 10: 56
                +1
                My personal means mine - I bought water, electricity, food for my own money. Well, and shelter.
          2. Conductor
            Conductor 17 September 2018 17: 53
            +2
            And all for digitization, and the plug was pulled out and the end. 0))
          3. alstr
            alstr 17 September 2018 20: 20
            +1
            I will say even more. He can’t even cope in peacetime, because network congestion will occur. And without overload - this is the time. And there are no guarantees that everyone will receive a notice.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 September 2018 20: 49
              0
              I agree. Every New Year it is observed.
  18. Whisper
    Whisper 17 September 2018 16: 22
    +1
    In my opinion, you do not need to wait for the whistle, you need to get out of the city for a week and away. The approach of the end will hang in the air and to feel it, the Ministry of Emergencies is not needed.
  19. evgen1221
    evgen1221 17 September 2018 18: 39
    +2
    Netak watched YouTube Shamov Dmitry on the topic of the Ministry of Emergencies and his work in Japan for a long time. A very well-functioning set of measures for their earthquake is hurricanes and so on. Of the especially liked books (free ones) in each family with illustrated in simple and simple instructions, maps of shelters, water, doctors, ways out of the district and the city. And these books are updated for each city and district of the city, plus the free sale of alarming suitcases - A convenient case such as a first aid kit with a card, a minimum of medication, a flashlight and dry for a day. Plus, the general set of state measures for civil defense and emergencies.
    It is clear that we have scored at the GO so far and everything is kept on the margin of safety of the USSR, but at least these two little things can be used to take cards and first-aid kits through private companies and publishers quickly for a couple of years everywhere, and then they’ll tighten up something else, maybe someday.
    1. your1970
      your1970 25 September 2018 09: 37
      0
      Quote: evgen1221
      we were beaten up at GO so far and everything rests on the margin of safety of the USSR, but at least these two little things are cards and first-aid kits
      - what percentage of drivers now fresh first-aid kit? only from those who bought the car within a year or two ... For everyone else it is - Overdue.....
      and this is an indicator of the population's indifference to threats .... and you are "books" .....
  20. Doliva63
    Doliva63 17 September 2018 18: 50
    +3
    Quote: Signaller
    In fact, it all starts LONG from the start of missile launch. Therefore, it is necessary to prepare for everything bad .. And I think so, and the notification structure will also be ready for everything bad ..

    Yeah, in the best of times, the OsNaz brigade stood in Cuba, which, among other things, could track the degree of readiness of the Yankees to strike, and now how? Honestly Trump? laughing
  21. vindigo
    vindigo 17 September 2018 19: 10
    0
    Hmm. So you die and it is not clear from what. It is hoped that there will not be enough atomic charges on my town. But, probably, there will be a battle with anti-aircraft defense, bombing with an ordinary aircraft and a combined-arms battle for the port city. They will try to capture whole moorings.
  22. Palagecha
    Palagecha 17 September 2018 19: 59
    +5
    And how will pension provision be implemented after the use of nuclear weapons? Will there be indexation of pensions? Will the retirement age be lowered due to poor ecology? And what will happen to the pension savings of those who did not survive?
    1. wehr
      17 September 2018 20: 51
      +1
      This, I would say, is a provocative question. laughing
  23. Old26
    Old26 17 September 2018 20: 07
    +1
    Quote: Tektor
    If you survived after passing the shock wave, then you have 20 minutes to get out of the city: you need to move approximately perpendicular to the wind, if it comes from the epicenter. If you are lucky and the wind blows in the direction of the epicenter, then you have a time car for any actions. You need to break out of the city by voting on the road. Remember! The only chance to escape is to get out of the city.

    Well, in 20 minutes you can get out only if you live somewhere on the outskirts of the city. My city has an approximate size of 12 x 14-15 km. The nearest "outskirts" are about 3-3,5 km (and this is in a straight line). Taking into account the fact that after the passage of the shock wave there will still be blockages, the distance will at least double. With all the desire to overcome in 20 minutes.
    The only way to escape - yes, is to try to get out of the city. That's just hardly anyone will stop when you vote. People will have a panic, besides, it doesn’t say on your face that you are trying to just save yourself, and not to take away his vehicle from a braked motorist. so this option is not suitable unambiguously.

    Quote: martin-159
    In the USSR there was a civil defense, in modern Russia it is not. That's all. A training manual from damaging factors will not hide.

    Well, right to say that the Ministry of Emergencies and Civil Defense is not there right now - it’s not worth it. Even in the USSR, evacuation exercises were extremely rare. In my memory, there was one such teaching, when it was necessary to get out of the city and get to a certain point of the route for 7-8 hours. In youth, the distance from Novocherkassk to Kamenolomen didn’t seem so great, but it also showed that the monolithic mass at first turned into a crowd of raving people at the end ...

    Quote: AVM
    The SMP requires the following (3 Action Groups):

    1.
    1.1 Disable high-rise residential buildings. At all. Buildings no higher than 3's floors (this will also solve the problem of parking in the courtyards, overloading utility networks, etc.).
    1.2 All buildings must be equipped with a basement capable of withstanding the collapse of the upper floors.
    1.3 Heating each house individual gas mini-boiler room. It is simpler to restore damaged gas pipes than a heating main, since frozen water all burst (this is after the impact). If the boiler house can work on liquid fuel, then it will be quite good.
    1.4 Audit of existing buildings on the resistance to damaging factors Ya.O. and finding nearby shelters.
    1.5 Encourage taxes and loans to save energy and green energy, dwell autonomy.
    .

    The point is impracticable in principle, and therefore a failure. Especially in terms of altitude. As an example. We have a new district in the city called "Perspective". About 75 houses have now been built there. Of these, about 40 have 12 storeys, a couple dozen - 17 storeys, a dozen 16 and 18 storeys and a dozen "low-rise" houses - 9, 10 and 14 floors. Each has approximately 6 to 8 entrances. How many hundreds of houses need to be built on three floors to accommodate such a number of people. Moreover, I have never seen three-story houses have more than 3-4 entrances. And that's just one area. All other items of position No. 1 are also not very feasible ...

    Quote: AVM

    2.
    2.1 Mandatory installation of an EMERCOM application on a smartphone and the introduction of the corresponding warning function into it. Not just SMS shouting, but a full output of a smartphone at maximum volume, siren, voice message.
    2.2 Displays recommendations indicating what is best to do — run to the basement of your building, to a nearby bomb shelter, or something else.
    2.3 If you need to run somewhere, then I’ll link Yandex maps with the route ..

    Probably some of these functions can be entered, such as volume and sirens, but it is hardly realistic to bind tens and hundreds of thousands of smartphones to cards. Yes, and it is unlikely that all this will function after the EMP.

    Quote: AVM

    3.
    3.1 Make a short and capacious training how to behave in different ch.s. before, during and after. Mandatory study in schools and in the state. enterprises. Just get her to write professionals, and not any bureaucrats. And then give it to readability.
    3.2 A short and capacious list of necessary things for self-collection is an alarming briefcase (I understand that very few people will collect it, but consciously it is necessary to simplify the task).
    3.3 Standard alarm case at an affordable (state) price (1-2 TR) with a long shelf life.
    3.4 As an option p.3.3. - mandatory purchase by analogy with a first-aid kit in a car.
    3.5 As an option, 3.3 is issued for free 1 once every N years.

    Together, it can significantly increase the survival rate of the population.

    3.1. This short manual will take several hundred pages, because it is impossible to describe all the options in just a few words. A sort of "ledger".
    3.2. This option is most real. Regardless of the possible emergencies.
    3.3. I can't say for sure, but such a kit "for survival" still costs much more than 1-2 thousand rubles, IMHO somewhere on the order of 4-5, depending on the configuration. But at the same time, the buyer must be able to at least use what is included in the same set. In addition, most of the population, especially males in this regard, will be 100% indifferent. For many of them, it is better for them to go to the eatery several times a day and take 200-300 grams of vodka "on their chest" (and so every day, spending 100-300 rubles on it every day, than buying such a "Troubled suitcase"
    3.4. Unreal. See paragraph 3.3.
    3.5. Also unrealistic. If, for example, there are 500 thousand people in a city, and one such chamodan is allocated for a family (let a family of 3-4 people), then about 120 thousand of such sets will be needed. At a price of 4-5 thousand (a large set) - this is about 600 million rubles. What city budget can you handle this?

    Quote: Sheptun
    In my opinion, you do not need to wait for the whistle, you need to get out of the city for a week and away. The approach of the end will hang in the air and to feel it, the Ministry of Emergencies is not needed.

    You can dump it where there is a place and where you will be accepted, where there is infrastructure for this. And try to evict a city with a population of at least 300 thousand and place them in existing settlements. Where will the water supply system and the sewage system be immediately covered, where there are no places to accommodate such a mass of people ...
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 18 September 2018 13: 32
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      The point is impracticable in principle, and therefore a failure. Especially in terms of altitude. As an example. We have a new district in the city called "Perspective". About 75 houses have now been built there. Of these, about 40 have 12 storeys, a couple dozen - 17 storeys, a dozen 16 and 18 storeys and a dozen "low-rise" houses - 9, 10 and 14 floors. Each has approximately 6 to 8 entrances. How many hundreds of houses need to be built on three floors to accommodate such a number of people. Moreover, I have never seen three-story houses have more than 3-4 entrances. And that's just one area. All other items of position No. 1 are also not very feasible ...


      Yes, we also have such a new district in the city. I once drove into it and was horrified. High-rise buildings shoulder to shoulder and the endless sea of ​​cars. I didn’t even stop by, I left the car on the outskirts and walked, because it is not possible to move normally there. What kind of nuclear war there is, is there a fire or ambulance car that is tortured to drive through, especially considering the current trend to close everything up with barriers.
      I’m not even talking about pin-hole building in the old districts, where the planning is not designed for auto-traffic anyway, but they are also shoving a candle there.

      Do not confuse how they are doing now and how they should be. If the governor says that he has completely banned point building, and six months later they start to put candles on again, then the reason is clearly not that people do not have enough housing, but that someone brought something to someone.

      Similarly, high-rise compact construction is beneficial only to the developer, who will invest at least in the land and the accompanying infrastructure, and the living space will vpar to the maximum. The further problems of residents with polyclinics, kindergartens, schools and parking are not interesting for him.

      In developed countries, where there are no problems in the territory for settlement, up to 70% of the population lives in private and low-rise buildings - the USA, Australia, Canada.

      In general, it depends on political will. There will be building standards - they will build. The price of housing is, by the way, not so much affected. By itself, a low-rise building is cheaper in construction, the cost of land is determined by federal or municipal authorities. The standards of construction, too, they write. Another question is that more roads, pipes, hospitals and other infrastructure are needed, but this should be the case in a normal country.

      Quote: Old26
      Probably some of these functions can be entered, such as volume and sirens, but it is hardly realistic to bind tens and hundreds of thousands of smartphones to cards. Yes, and it is unlikely that all this will function after the EMP.


      We will have EMR in only one scenario, and different types of hours. may be much more - hurricanes, floods, chemical leakage. substances, forest fires, etc.

      In the case of a nuclear conflict, the initial stage is important, then it is clear that most of the electronics will be cut down, as are the networks that support them.
      But there is one more thing. As correctly written in the comments, the nuclear strike will be stretched in time. The primary targets will be military targets. Industry and energy are likely to be secondary objectives. Accordingly, the sooner people are able to get information and orient themselves, the lower the losses will be.
      Specialized software can trigger an alarm and display a set of simple, clear recommendations. The second tab is to make a map with marks of entrances to the subway, bomb shelters and basements that are resistant to destruction (can be compiled based on the results of the audit). Errors, of course, will be - somewhere closed, somewhere demolished, but it's better than nothing.


      Quote: Old26
      3.1. This short manual will take several hundred pages, because it is impossible to describe all the options in just a few words. A sort of "ledger".

      It depends on who will write. It is not necessary to teach the theory, the calculation of the equivalent dose, only the basic recommendations - where to go, how to ensure minimum hygiene from radiation, etc. etc. One sheet for one h.

      Quote: Old26
      3.3. I can't say for sure, but such a kit "for survival" still costs much more than 1-2 thousand rubles, IMHO somewhere on the order of 4-5, depending on the configuration.


      Watching what to put in it. A pair of simple respirators, bandages, can be burned with a long shelf life, an alcohol burner, an antiseptic (not alcohol!), A simple flashlight with an 1 AA lithium battery (not a battery, batteries are stored in 15 years from -40 to + 50), a lighter BIC, water disinfection tablets ...
      I think you can keep up with 2000, but 4000 is not a super large amount. Do not forget, if this is done centrally, there will be a large wholesale.


      Quote: Old26
      But at the same time the buyer should be able to, at least use what is included in the same kit.

      Brief instructions on the 1-2 sheet.


      Quote: Old26
      In addition, most of the population, especially males in this regard, will be 100% indifferent. For many of them, it is better for them to go to the eatery several times a day and take 200-300 grams of vodka "on their chest" (and so every day, spending 100-300 rubles on it every day, than buying such a "Troubled suitcase"


      I agree, but those who buy the finished one will still be more than those who collect everything themselves.

      Quote: Old26
      3.4. (As an option, p. 3.3. - mandatory purchase by analogy with a first-aid kit in a car.) Unreal. See p. 3.3


      For all, yes, but they will still be more than if allowed to decide for themselves. In the same car first-aid kits somehow.
      There are many ways to persuade now. Starting from whining in kindergartens and kindergartens (they are forced to load their parents) to civil servants who are simply made to be monitored.

      Quote: Old26
      3.5. Also unreal. If in a city for example 500 there are thousands of people, and one such suitcase should be allocated to a family (let the family be from 3-4 people), then you need about 120 thousands of such sets. At a price of 4-5 thousand (large set) - it is about 600 million rubles. What is the city budget master?


      Easier to count on the country. Roughly 150 000 000 people, 3 people in the family (on average). It turns 50 000 000 families. For 2000 rubles it will be 100 billion rubles. With a shelf life of 10 years, it is 10 billion rubles per year (phased issuance / replacement). The budget of the Russian Federation on 2018 G. 15 trillion. 182 billion rubles.

      There are intermediate options. The state issues a minimum mandatory set free of charge, and anyone can buy a more serious one with partial compensation of expenses.

      In general, there would be a desire. But with him, both the state and the citizens have serious problems. As they say, the thunder does not burst, the peasant will not cross.
      1. your1970
        your1970 25 September 2018 09: 43
        0
        Quote: AVM
        ending with civil servants who are easy to force and control.
        - from my salary in 18 000 do you offer to subtract 4000? from the salary of secretaries of 1 / 2 digits in 9000 you offer to subtract 4 000?
  24. TOR2
    TOR2 17 September 2018 20: 54
    +3
    People will most likely stand and stare at her, thinking that they are watching a meteorite fall. Only this time the outcome of the spectacle will be somewhat different - suddenly and blindingly blindingly blindingly dazzling white, all absorbing light.

    It is simply not possible to get the correct response from the civilian population. There is only one choice - to gather a group of developers capable of challenging a hopeless situation. Certain developments were in the USSR, projects "Trust" and "Northern Lights". It was possible to deal with single launches with technologies 35 years ago. At the moment, there is no ABM Treaty; non-standard ideas and funding will be needed.
  25. Jurgens
    Jurgens 17 September 2018 23: 13
    +1
    The general meaning of the splash: "If everything is bad with us, out of that!" And, as always - zero suggestions from a genius. For it is not capable. By the way, again, not in the favorite "Siberian" language, alas. And it would be funnier at times ..
    PS And when will a nuclear war break out between s. Korea and the States, which, so bursting furiously, predicted our light?))))
  26. pilot69
    pilot69 18 September 2018 06: 56
    +1
    We are all going to die article. In general, if the population of a country begins to rush in search of shelter after detecting a missile launch of a potential enemy, this means that the GO system did not work. The author at least read Federal Law 28 of 1998. At the time of the missile launch, most of the state institutions and non-residents should already be evacuated. It is clear that we should not mean it will, but at least on paper and in plans it is. There are degrees of military threat and in accordance with them, certain measures are taken. During my service, for example, the head of our Directorate, together with family members, had to be accommodated on the territory of the brewery, 100 km from the city. Every six months we went there to clarify plans drinks
    1. wehr
      18 September 2018 13: 10
      +1
      Officials will take care of themselves, of course. And the rest of what to do?
  27. Ros 56
    Ros 56 18 September 2018 07: 03
    +1
    Calm down dear, no one will have time to hide anywhere, from the 62nd to the 70th. I lived in a Stalinist building (beginning of the 50s), I personally covered all the shelters under the house, naturally with the boys from our yard, I saw doors about 30 cm thick with locks like in a submarine. They crawled out of the basement into the courtyard into the ventilation passage. Near the old houses there are such small 2 * 2 * 2 meters approximately, structures with metal shutters. You understand, there are no such locks that curious boys would not open. From the mid-60s to the present, such shelters in residential buildings do not stand, at least with us. And all five, nine, and other ...... the eleven-story buildings, in which case they will be strewed like dominoes, as we all could see, observing through the box the consequences of gas explosions in houses of this type. So with a sudden attack, only the lucky ones will survive who are just lucky how to win a million in the lottery. And it is not known who is more lucky.
  28. Homer_J_Simpson
    Homer_J_Simpson 18 September 2018 07: 14
    +1
    And the author should study the modern military doctrine of the Russian Federation. In which there was a rejection of the use by potential opponents of weapons of mass destruction.
    1. wehr
      18 September 2018 13: 08
      +3
      It is necessary to understand that the enemy will comply with the military doctrine of the Russian Federation? laughing
  29. Homer_J_Simpson
    Homer_J_Simpson 18 September 2018 07: 16
    +1
    And also read the legislation on the civil defense system and learn how to distinguish it from the RFES system.
  30. pilot69
    pilot69 18 September 2018 07: 21
    +1
    And yet, no one has canceled the article of the Administrative Code of the Russian Federation 20.7. It's just that the current nafik owners do not need anything, because the organization of Go at the enterprise costs a certain amount of money. Already in retirement, at the request of friends, he put the documents in order in their company (1600 employees so that), then having heard the required amount, I heard something like "thank you all, everyone is free." That's what you need to write about. GO is organized at all levels - from the village council to the subject of the federation and enterprises of ALL forms of ownership.
  31. evgen1221
    evgen1221 19 September 2018 03: 02
    0
    From a massive blow, and even in several waves at cities and large enterprises, little can be saved except for parity and the ability to do the same to the opposite side. I read somewhere that it was scientifically proven in the 70s.
    But quite simple maps and penny alarming suitcases will save many people from direct and subsequent population losses in the event of natural disasters. And a good business for many people can be done out of the blue.
  32. nikvic46
    nikvic46 19 September 2018 14: 31
    +2
    Yes, the USSR did not have the opportunity to save the entire population through exchanges of nuclear strikes. And this was perfectly understood by the government of the USSR. The main factor in the politics of the USSR was the deterrence factor. Peace-loving politics
    Our state enjoyed great support in the world. At the UN, a large number of countries supported us. Question. Why? There were no militaristic statements inside the USSR. This was punishable by law.
    This means that the people worked calmly. All statements by Gromyko were voiced by speakers with well-placed
    voices. Any military psychosis has a flip side, panic.
  33. NG inform
    NG inform 20 September 2018 02: 48
    0
    In fact, the harsh truth is that the main protection against a nuclear explosion is European cities. Small, low and evenly distributed throughout the country.
    And we have a dozen overpopulated anthills, which are very convenient to shoot.
    1. your1970
      your1970 25 September 2018 09: 51
      0
      Quote: NG inform
      In fact, the harsh truth is that the main protection against a nuclear explosion is European cities. Small, low and evenly distributed throughout the country.
      - there’s only a nuance - these cities border each other end-to-end. The father served in the GDR on the T-10 in the 60 — so they went out in a few exercises on the border of the GDR-Germany watch. And T-10 is not for you the Formula -1 ...
      Therefore, survival in Europe will generally be much lower than in the Russian Federation - our scope will cover us very much.
      Even in Soviet times, the number of cities planned to be destroyed by US plans was very small.
      1. NG inform
        NG inform 26 September 2018 09: 03
        -2
        For the United States, the efficiency of their atomic bombs is much higher than for ours. In the USA and Europe, simply the average population density is much higher, but at the same time it is evenly spread. Atomic bombs have a relatively small radius of destruction, it’s more profitable to shoot at the super-concentrations of people, in our places in these places almost all of the human potential is concentrated, but they don’t.
    2. PavelT
      PavelT 28 September 2018 00: 32
      0
      Yes, there is such a moment.
      And the Swiss (whom no one is going to bomb) also have a solid shelter by state standards in every multi-story (not individual) apartment building, hotel, public institution. I saw these there, some climbed inside and out (in a friend’s hotel, in the basement of the house where he rented an apartment) - high-quality concrete walls and floors around 40-50 cm, two doors from a steel frame (1cm steel frames, inside are filled with concrete in 20 cm thick) with rubber seals and a safe lock, it is mandatory that the pump inside is air-operated with a manual drive and a charcoal filter, the emergency exit (at least - only by crawling) must be at least 10 meters from the external walls of the building. In peacetime, such shelters have laundries, warehouses, pantries, but they should not interfere with the closing of doors and places for bunks / beds should be vacated in 30 minutes.
      In private homes, shelters are not necessary, but if the landlord does this according to the state standard and claims tax, people will come from there and check everything: if they meet the state standard, they will reduce the property tax by several times! As a result, in half (or even more) private houses there are also bomb shelters (used as storage rooms, wine cellars). The people as a whole are not averse to cutting the tax on this, although the initial costs are not frail.
  34. Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 22 September 2018 11: 46
    0
    What civil defense is there? If an exchange of nuclear strikes begins, then complete confusion and chaos will begin. It is well shown, approximately, in the film "The Next Day", how events will develop. And the living will envy the dead. Only those who are far from the cities will remain. They will have ghostly chances of survival.
  35. ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 25 September 2018 21: 44
    0
    "PHC needs the following (3 groups of actions):"
    ___
    The main problem of modern shelters is that the system for maintaining them in operation is not designed to work in a market economy. This is exactly what needs to be fixed.
    The anti-nuclear and civil defense measures are quite sufficient, which have been slowly implemented for decades by purely economic methods - for example, the development of underground commercial construction in settlements and their industrial zones can be encouraged, excluding from commercial property taxation those contained in order to be applied for civil defense and emergency situations specially resistant to shock blast waves (and other damaging factors), underground rooms and cavities potentially suitable for human habitation, underground, resistant to shock waves, tanks for drinking water and fuel, wells, warehouses, underground communication networks. Naturally, such premises and structures, even at the stage of their construction and reconstruction projects, are required to easily equip them to shelters, if necessary. Requirements are revised from time to time, following the development of nuclear weapons. Since any capital structure is usually able to stand for more than a century, such tax benefits will be beneficial for their owners in the long term.
    A separate topic is the planned and unscheduled repair and reconstruction of shelters and related infrastructure, such as the above-mentioned tanks and networks - such events are a large financial cost for their owners. Therefore, it is advisable to attract investment organizations to finance planned activities: that is, legal entities, state organizations and institutions have been paying reconstruction small fees to various investment organizations for many decades. This money works in the economy and, accumulating, making a profit, gradually reach the quantity necessary for the performance of work.
    The condition of the shelter and its operability, as well as the condition of other supporting infrastructure - should be insured by insurance companies, insurance should be provided in case of various accidents and damage, as well as improper construction, repair and reconstruction. This will allow for unplanned emergency and repair work.
    The shelters themselves, with the help of the technical requirements for them, must be purposefully made durable, so that their built-in equipment and supplies are extremely simple and cheap, do not lose their functionality even after many decades of negligent repair, careless storage and preservation, it can work efficiently damaged, corroded, incomplete, including easily repaired and suitable for repeated re-restoration, use, after the next repair of the shelter, etc. This will favorably affect, in the end, the quality of their reconstruction and maintenance - because the longer the overhaul period is infrastructure and the smaller the volume of work, the more money insurance and investment companies involved in the business will maintain on their accounts.
    Historically, similar projects already existed.
    By the mid-1950s, a future nuclear war seemed almost inevitable. In the United States, it became clear that this time it would be impossible to avoid the loss of civilian population of the metropolis, and it was necessary to prepare for a Soviet nuclear strike.
    Herman Kahn and Robert Panero in America came up with the concept of deep urban shelter in 1957: essentially the same as they envisioned a future "anti-nuclear city" might look like a typical city by the end of 21 - the middle of the 22nd century. And our time and the era of the 90s will be remembered by descendants as a golden and carefree era. True, according to Kahn's calculations, from receiving the signal of a Soviet strike to the strike itself, the city had only a little more than 30 minutes, which a modern city will not have. It is a pity that documentaries and feature films have not been filmed about the history of this project.
  36. acetophenone
    acetophenone 25 September 2018 23: 22
    0
    The author is simple. not because "not in the subject". because he is trying to be clever, being out of topic.
  37. PavelT
    PavelT 28 September 2018 00: 20
    0
    if the Strategic Missile Forces had the opportunity to activate sirens, transmit voice messages and so on directly, immediately after calculating the trajectories and determining the areas of destruction of the detected ballistic missiles.

    No matter how awesome the huge false alarm came out. This has already happened in the USA in the Hawaiian Islands:
    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3720718 - в январе этого года - явно сюрприза от КНДР ждали.
    Unforgettable impressions of residents: https://russian.rt.com/world/article/470071-raketnyi-udar-ssha-gavaii
  38. wicked pinnochio
    wicked pinnochio 29 September 2018 09: 59
    0
    as the teacher on national defense told us, sit in a basin and cover yourself with a sheet so that there is something to bury after you
  39. Oleg1
    Oleg1 2 October 2018 12: 45
    +1
    Frankly speaking, the author -> author -> the author absolutely does not understand not in military affairs, not in civil defense, to disassemble everything is lazy, but for example:
    - 18 minutes - detection of warheads by missile defense radars;

    - 17 minutes 30 seconds - determination of trajectories and areas of damage;

    - 17 minutes - notification of the RSChS (for simplicity, we assume that the message is sent from the Strategic Rocket Forces to the RSChS automatically, but it takes time for the system to activate and transmit the message);

    - 16 minutes 30 seconds - receiving information in the RSES, starting the preparation of public notification (the received information needs to be recognized, which also takes time).
    author -> author -> author does not know what other than missile defense radars, by the way what is it? There is also satellite intelligence that will detect the mass launch of rockets online. And the Sirens will not include sirens, it has nothing to do with it, but civil defense officers on duty centrally from Moscow (with a massive attack) and across the country ... so his amateurish calculations fit the current in the furnace ...
    In general, the recommendation to hide in shelters, which is contained in the manuals on civil defense, comes from the 1950-ies, when strategic bombers were the main carrier of nuclear weapons. For example, the “strategist” B-52 with a cruising speed of 820 km / hour, if it was found over the Northern Urals, would take two hours to reach Moscow and drop a nuclear bomb. For two hours, you can spend a full warning of the population, the population will gather, will reach the shelters, will be located in them and will wait for a nuclear explosion. Not the fact that he will be - the enemy "strategist" may even fall down the road.
    Oh ... basically GO shelters are intended for the largest working shift of enterprises that continue to work in the BB, ... so the nonsense written by the aftor ...
    If you are on the upper floors of a residential building or business building, it will take a lot of time to go down the stairs, which are also clogged with people. In a real environment, getting to the shelter in 10 minutes is completely unrealistic.
    The GO plans provide for the collection of the population in the metro within which you can just go through these 10 minutes .... but the author -> author -> the author did not know this and much more
    Threat and I’ll also reveal a terrible secret to the aftor, civil defense measures provide for not current shelter in APs but also resettlement in safe areas, provision of satellites and much more ... but this is not known to amateurs with aplomb and the effectiveness of civil defense measures depends on the degree of their implementation (time for which they were completed ) it is clear that the smaller it is, the lower their effectiveness is the smallest in a sudden strike, in the presence of a threatened period, the maximum ....
  40. Cycle boss
    Cycle boss 12 November 2018 16: 22
    0
    In a nuclear explosion, you must lie down on the ground, cover yourself with a white blanket, and crawl towards the cemetery.
  41. Oleg1
    Oleg1 7 February 2020 14: 32
    0
    Therefore, recommendations for a nuclear strike, which are in the instructions on civil defense, are completely unsuitable for modern conditions and useless. Once they made sense, but already in the 1970-s, these recommendations are hopelessly outdated and even become harmful. The circumstances of a nuclear strike with ballistic missiles are such that it will be suddenly in any case and will not leave time for shelter. We need a completely different method of civil defense in case of a nuclear war.
    I remind the author that in the 70s the enemy had ballistic missiles with the same arrival time. In the 80s, when their missiles were in Europe, the flight time to Moscow was about 10 minutes. I explain that the more GO can save people, the longer the preparatory period, the more activities Go managed to complete. A sudden blow is one thing and it’s quite another when they managed to evacuate, etc. It has always been so, even in the 60s ... There is no other way to save the population
    IMHO ashamed of the author .... why show himself a complete ignoramus?