Military Review

Viking swords. From Roman Spah to Sutton Hoo sword (part of 1)

67

Praise the sword

Mchi,
sword,
Sickle
sech,
Beach
battles
Brother
razors
(The program "Skald". A.Kondratov. "Formula Miracle")


Probably, among the visitors of the VO website and those of them who read the materials of the series about the Vikings, there are quite a few who asked themselves the question: when will the swords be ?! In fact, I warned that publications on this topic would be initially unsystematic. It is clear that this is not very good, but so it turns out. Information is either too much or not at all. Or it is in English, and you have to translate everything. Or there is text, but there are no good photos. In a word, it’s not so easy to write about them, about Vikings. Therefore, the texts are written according to the principle of least resistance: there is information - there is text. No - no text. And here it all happened that there is one thing and another, so it became possible to write about swords ...

Viking swords. From Roman Spah to Sutton Hoo sword (part of 1)

Typical composite handle of the Anglo-Saxon sword "with a ring", the end of the VI century. (British Museum, London)

To begin with, the roots of all European swords "grow" from ancient Rome. Already in the III century AD such a sword, like Spata, began to spread widely among the Germanic tribes who found themselves on the borders of the Roman Empire. Gladius, a short stabbing sword of a legionary, did not suit them, since barbarians did not fight in the close ranks and had no discipline of legionnaires, nor did they possess any skills. But Spata, who lived for both horse and foot soldiers, was just right at them. First, the special differences between weapons Roman and German practically did not exist. But starting from the IV century, samples of the German spat proper began to appear. They were used until the 8th century, when a weapon gradually appeared, which today we call the "Viking sword."


Weapons from Vimose, dating back to the 2nd century AD In the photo you can see the umbons of shields, single-edged Sax sword with scabbards, spear and arrowheads. (National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen)


Sometimes archaeologists get their swords in this form: Spata is approximately 580 AD. from Trossingen, tomb No.58. (Archaeological Museum of Baden-Württemberg, Germany)

The traditional sword of this period had an average length of about 90 centimeters, and the blade itself was about 75 centimeters, with a width of five to six centimeters. A prominent feature was the wide and flat dale or two narrow dale on the blade. But the most characteristic is the complex handle of the sword, which at that time was done in a completely different way than later. It was also customary to richly decorate the hand with precious stones (such as garnets), as well as gold and silver. At the same time, the quality of the blade was quite high, which indicates the high skill of their creators.


"Barbaric splendor" - a phrase that is firmly in our turn. But, yes, indeed, the swords of the Great Migration of Peoples cannot be confused with anything, neither did they spare any gold or rubies ... For example, the details of the sword from the burial in Bluchin. (National Museum in Prague)

It should be emphasized that the swords of the era of the Great Migration, like the swords of the Vikings, are classified only by their handles. For the first time such a typology of the handles of swords of the early Middle Ages was developed in 1939 by Ellis Bemer, and improved in 1962 by Hilda Ellis Davidson. Finally, in 1983, Wilfried Mengin proposed his own principle for their classification. However, Bemer’s typology remained the most common and recognized one. Apparently because it was eventually reduced to just four types, and this is not difficult to remember.


Crosshair of the Anglo-Saxon sword of the era of the Great Migration. (Ashmol Museum, Oxford)

For some reason, in the early Middle Ages it was customary to make very complex, composite handles of many different parts, including rivets. For example, up to the time of the Vikings, the tops of the hilt were made of two parts: the horizontal bar, which served as the lower guard, and the so-called “crown” riveted on top of it. Moreover, the crown itself often consisted of separate parts, which also needed to be connected to each other. Judging by the ornaments of the “Sutton-Hu sword”, cloisonne enamel was used to decorate the tops, although on this very sword the enamel was replaced with grenades!


The four main types of handles found on swords of the era of the Great Migration of Nations (T. Libible. Sword. M .: Omena, 2011 g.)

The tail on such swords, unlike the swords of a later period, did not pass through the pommel and did not rivet on it, but did rivet on its lath under the crown. After that, the crown was put on top of the bar and attached to it from the back side with two rivets.

It is believed that the most perfect sword of the era of the Great Migration in accordance with the typology of Bemer was the sword of the third type. Such swords had a bronze handle in the form of two cones directed towards each other. A typical sword of this type is the “sword from the Kragehul swamp”, found in this very swamp in Denmark and dating back to the 5th century AD. Moreover, with all the seemingly pretentiousness of its handle, it comfortably lies in the hand and is not inferior to all other types in the convenience of circulation.

The most difficult was the fourth type, which is called “Wandel” by ship’s burial in Wendel. His pommel and crosshair crosses are assembled from several plates, that is, its design is similar to the Anglo-Saxon swords. Plates made of organic materials, such as horn or bone, or made from cheaper metal alloys, were often inserted between the gold plates. Crown topside usually triangular or “inverted boat”. In this case, the handles of such swords are often decorated with carving.

Many Wendel-type swords have one interesting detail - a ring for pommel. It is small in size, and secured to it with a bracket. For what it is unknown. It is believed that it served as a distinction. Moreover, the rings on the early swords are fixed movably, but on later ones they are connected to the bracket. That is, this detail has lost all practical purposes. But since all the swords with rings are very richly decorated, we can assume that they represent the gifts of princes to noble warriors, and the rings on them are nothing but a hint of an oath of allegiance.


"Sword from Sactton Hu." Head to close up. (British Museum, London)

The most famous sword of the fourth type is the sword from the Sutton Hu burial, found in 1939 in Suffolk on Sutton Hu Hill inside the ship's burial. It was established that this grave belongs to the Anglo-Saxon King Radwold who died in 625. Among the finds was the sword of Raduold, who was an excellent example of the weapons of his era. His blade was welded from several strips of Damascus steel, and the handle was almost entirely made of gold and, in addition, decorated with cloisonne enamel. And instead of enamel at the sword Sutton Hu used polished grenades. That is, it was a real royal sword and ... clear evidence of the mastery of the gunsmiths of the era of the Great Migration of Nations. The replica of this sword has a blade length equal to 76 centimeters, with a total length of 89 centimeters, and the weight is a little more than a kilogram.


"Sword of Sutton Hu." General form. British Museum, London

Thus, the "Viking sword" is a direct descendant of the Roman spat and is also the direct ancestor of the European knight's sword. Although, of course, it would be more correct to call it “the sword of the times of the Vikings”, since such swords were worn not only by the Vikings themselves, but by all the warriors of this period. And since the "Viking era", and again conditionally, is considered to be 793 the year when they made their first attack on the monastery in Lindesfarne, and the end of 1066 year, it is clear what a huge territory they spread and how many people besides them enjoyed these weapons! But it so happened that the expression "Viking sword" rooted. And rooted also because swords of this type were the mass weapons of the Vikings. Although the ax may have been significant, however, the sword of the Vikings was valued much higher. Proof of this are not only the burials with swords, but also the saga of the Vikings, who are simply saturated with stories about some unusual swords. Often there are messages about famous family swords that have their own names.

To be continued ...
Author:
67 comments
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  1. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 September 2018 06: 17
    +3
    Great article! The epigraph is also noteworthy; I read about this program about 15 years ago.
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2018 08: 02
      +7
      Hula crow. Lie, lie - A thief of wounds, a signature stamp of thunderstorms, a goose of tears. Dead, bad, rotten, rotten, decrepit, stunted, musty, rotten, rotten, weak, rubbish toads ... Rubbish - lies. Crappy, dran! From the same book ...
  2. Adjutant
    Adjutant 17 September 2018 08: 29
    +3
    Spata is of Celtic origin.
    Now associated with the Roman weapons system. Well done guys, adopted the best!
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2018 08: 37
      +7
      Well, so does the gladius not Roman ... But let's not go down at that time ... Just from some point taken for 0 we go forward.
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 September 2018 18: 51
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article. But I was surprised that you beautifully bypassed the generally accepted concept of long swords of the dark ages - "caroling"?
        For the rest, you are absolutely right, given the number of federals of German origin in the legions and alams of late Rome, the succession of the Roman spat and Frankish caroling is not surprising. This is especially true for the Anglo-Saxons during the raids of the Vikings armed with long and short swords (Carolingian and Saxon). Although they themselves conquered Britain with an ax and a sax.
        Yours!
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2018 22: 46
          0
          I do not like this name!
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 12 November 2018 08: 19
            0
            You have beautifully bypassed the generally accepted concept of long swords of the dark ages - "Carolingian"

            I do not like this name!

            However, it is more correct in general and generally recognized, commonly used in particular. Because the vast majority of the blades themselves are made on the territory of the Carolingian empire. And you know that.
        2. Ottor
          Ottor 19 September 2018 17: 21
          +2
          Good afternoon!
          "the common concept of long swords of the dark ages is" carolingian "
          Unfortunately, there is no such generally accepted concept - it’s all from the evil one.
          There is a typology:
          - Oakeshot
          - Peterson
          - Brick
          And none of them have a type, group, etc. "caroling")
      2. Kola Lopar
        Kola Lopar 18 September 2018 18: 08
        +1
        Perhaps the Celtic Spat was adopted by the Germans even earlier than the Romans, the Germans first met the Celts earlier than the Romans, lived nearby.
  3. besleney59.
    besleney59. 17 September 2018 09: 23
    +9
    We live in an era of abundance of metal .. earlier the Middle Ages, a time of acute shortage, iron-coking, most often from bog ores, steel was obtained by cementation (up to magically feeding pieces of metal to geese with subsequent processing of the material ..) slag was knocked out of cricket iron by forging, compacting and cleaning iron. steel crusts were sintered by blacksmith welding to obtain billets that later went to the edges of the blade. All together, the master blacksmith welded the blade .. such a sword could withstand a blow without damaging the cutting edge and not bend-break ... and he was handsome, very handsome .. marks of the early Middle Ages - an elite weapon, respectively, decorated ... weapons a simple war (a free member of society) is all the same, ax, spear, sax .. The difference between the Roman gladius (to a lesser extent spathy) and the early medieval sword is the difference between the mass utilitarian weapons of the legions (valuable but property) and piece weapons, the owner of which quite often considers his sword (requiring blood and battles), .. a living creature, with its own character .. such swords were given names, and decorated as they could.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 17 September 2018 09: 32
    -2
    The best swords I know in Star Wars!
    1. Cat
      Cat 17 September 2018 19: 17
      +8
      Yeah, the weapon of the proletariat is "cobblestone"!
      The other day, I watched an interesting picture - how three "admirers of Mr. Navalny", obviously high school students or first-year students, tried the above "formidable weapon of the revolution." It looked genuinely funny when young people, holding an iPhone in their right hand, tried to pick out a cobblestone from the pavement with their left, using keys and fingers. We were digging the poor stone for about five or six minutes. Eyewitnesses even shed tears of sympathy. One compassionate grandfather even offered his "stick" to the glorious Gavroche. The Gavroshi were offended and left! Grandfather pointedly approached the cobblestone, stuck in his "stick", protested Archimedes and turned the cobblestone out. When I helped my grandfather to "bury" him, he said golden words "with the current generation of revolution it is impossible to build, however, like the Nobel Prize in physics"!
      Yours!
  5. Operator
    Operator 17 September 2018 09: 57
    +1
    The knight-type European sword is a direct descendant of the cavalry sword used by the Iranian-speaking Alans in the service of the army of late Rome. Those. the cavalry sword came from the Black Sea.

    The Cavalry sword was introduced to the Scandinavian Peninsula in the 4 century. Slav-Vendians (Scandinavian Wendels).
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2018 10: 37
      +4
      Some kind of Slavophil delirium. Rome was both closer and "more interesting".
      1. Operator
        Operator 17 September 2018 15: 31
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Rome was closer

        Yes, yes: the Apennine peninsula of the mountainaaaaaazdo is closer to Scandinavian than Jutland laughing
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2018 22: 49
          -1
          Of course closer. Where is Rome, and where are the Slavs huddled in the woods?
          1. Operator
            Operator 17 September 2018 23: 20
            +2
            Forests, where in the 4th century the Slavs "huddled", grew incl. and on the Jutland Peninsula, all of a sudden.
            1. kalibr
              19 September 2018 16: 11
              -1
              That is, the Slavs lived there at that time?
      2. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 20 September 2018 01: 36
        -2
        Have you brought a bunch of iconic bowlers to Jutland from Rome? good
        A boiler cult is a steppe cult, by the way wink
        Yes, and where did the poor Slavs live, it seems that in the 6th century they fell directly from the moon
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 17 September 2018 11: 40
      +5
      Quote: Operator
      The Cavalry sword was introduced to the Scandinavian Peninsula in the 4 century. Slav-Vendians (Scandinavian Wendels).

      According to archaeological research on the territory inhabited by the Slavs, before the arrival of the Scandinavians, swords (as well as shields) are not found from the word "absolutely". There is not a single find of a sword or shield before the XNUMXth century. And the Slavs in the IV century. yet, as such, did not exist. The origin of the Wends is unclear - they are Celts or Germans, or a mixture of both, and even more so it is unclear whether they have anything to do with the Slavs that appeared later - evidence of such a relationship, in my opinion, is weak to assert this as a proven truth. One thing is for sure - these same Wends did not differ in any special qualities and did not stand out from other "barbarian" tribes in terms of their level of development.
      1. kalibr
        17 September 2018 11: 49
        +3
        And if we esteem Byzantine historians about the weapons of the Slavs ...
        1. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky 20 September 2018 01: 50
          -1
          What does the Byzantine sources of the 6th century have to do with it? Well, it remains to remember the kifara, and the emperor burst into tears from emotion. But we're talking about a kind of "Viking era", aren't we? And it starts with Lidisfarne, right? Well, this is already the 9th century by and large. How many Baltic (and not only) Slavs resisted the Franco-Danish onslaught on their lands? They drove away Danes and Franks with sticks for more than two centuries or what?
  6. Curious
    Curious 17 September 2018 13: 14
    +5
    "But since all swords with rings are very richly decorated, it can be assumed that they are gifts from princes to noble warriors, and the rings on them are nothing but a hint of an oath of allegiance."
    Oakeshot offers another interesting version - the rings were intended for fastening the "fridbond", the "strap of good intentions", which are often mentioned in the sagas. It was a cord attached to the hilt of a sword so that it could be tied to a scabbard and thus prevent a warrior from quickly grabbing a weapon in the heat and killing someone. A kind of safety device at a time when a quarrel at a hoppy feast or argument could lead to a duel between, often fatal. But the strap in this case didn’t make it impossible to remove the sword from the scabbard, but left it to think for a while and maybe cool.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2018 13: 39
      +3
      An interesting version. I thought I was just braiding the guard and scabbard. The presence of such a "fit" on the sword implies the presence of a counterpart on the scabbard. And also the fact that the murders "in a state of passion" were systematic.
      1. Curious
        Curious 17 September 2018 13: 53
        +5
        Sagas very often describe completely rash, spontaneous killings.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 September 2018 14: 13
          +2
          Hot Scandinavian guys, what to take from them. Again, it is possible that the "strap of good intentions" carried another functional load: to enable the "counterman" to get his weapon, equalize the chances, including that of getting into Valhalla. Then it is no longer a murder, but a "judgment of the gods", everything is within the framework of religion.
      2. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 12 November 2018 08: 28
        0
        The version is interesting. But unlikely. Bo, most of these swords are extremely status. So the owners of these swords are from the very top of society. Try to call to order the king or the highest aristocrat (according to the status of the counterpart of the late duke, count, marquis) and tie a sword to them at the feast.
    2. Kola Lopar
      Kola Lopar 18 September 2018 18: 18
      +1
      There are mentions that the "strap of good intentions" was tied and sealed when visiting places where it was not recommended to draw a weapon. Arrived, for example, at the bargaining - the sword was sealed, went further - the seal can be removed and the strap untied.
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 18 October 2018 22: 50
        0
        Quote: Kola Lapp
        There are mentions that the "strap of good intentions" was tied and sealed when visiting places where it was not recommended to draw a weapon. Arrived, for example, at the bargaining - the sword was sealed, went further - the seal can be removed and the strap can be untied

        An interesting version, I did not know about this.
  7. Operator
    Operator 17 September 2018 14: 36
    +2
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Slavs in the 4th century yet, as such, did not exist

    Southern Wends / Venets came from the Carpathians to the area of ​​the future Venice earlier than 500 BC. At the same time, the northern Wends / Venets came to the area of ​​the Jutland Peninsula.
    All of them were purebred carriers of the Eastern European subclade R1a.
    Now guess three times - who are these very carriers today?

    As for the cavalry swords, one should not misinterpret my words - I just said that the Scandinavians got acquainted with the Alanian sword through the Wends (which, naturally, were not fully armed with cavalry weapons).
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 17 September 2018 17: 49
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      All of them were purebred carriers of the Eastern European subclade R1a.

      Reference to research, please. Who, when and what researched, what questions he put before him, what answers he received. I’ve got used to saying that you prove facts to prove your statements, but the accuracy of which is not confirmed by anything, but still I ask you once again: deign to reveal the source of this intimate knowledge - who, when and in what way, proved that the Venets had the R1 haplogroup, yes also the Eastern European subclade and no other. Roughly speaking: which burials were attributed exactly like the Venetian ones, which genetic materials were preserved in them, what was the result of the analysis, and who exactly and when did it take place?
      Concerning
      Quote: Operator
      no need to misinterpret my words

      I didn’t change anything at all:
      Quote: Operator
      The Cavalry sword was introduced to the Scandinavian Peninsula in the 4 century. Slav-Vendians (Scandinavian Wendels).

      - your words.
      I objected that the Slavs did not know swords until the tenth century, and in the fourth century. they, as such, just did not exist. But even if we recognize (which is highly doubtful and absolutely not proven) the relationship between the Wends and the Slavs, even in this case, the fact that he borrows a long sword from the steppe cultures is very doubtful, because it was used in Europe during the Minoan civilization.
      And, in any case, the long sword could not be borrowed from the Alans, who were known only from the beginning of our era, since by that time it was already actively used by the Romans and the Gauls and the Germans.
      So, most likely, both the Wends and the Germans (including the future Scandinavians) received long swords from the Romans (they really look like a spatha) and did it simultaneously through the "Great Amber Road".
      1. Operator
        Operator 17 September 2018 18: 08
        +2
        Do not play with the words: "actively / not actively used" - the cavalry sword was not used by the Romans, Gauls and Germans before the Alans came to the service of the Roman Empire for a simple reason - in order to cut with a long sword while sitting on a horse, you must have a support in the form of stirrups, which during this period, the Romans, Gauls and Germans did not have a word at all.
        Only Alans got out of this situation, who compensated for the absence of stirrups by learning from childhood to keep their knees in the saddle.

        The "Reformat" portal contains all the information about the genetics of the northern and southern Wends / Veneti / Vendels and the chronology of their bone remains in the regions of the Jutland Peninsula and the Venetian Lagoon.

        And so yes, Jewish textbooks of Russian history speak the truth - the Slavs appeared in the 7 century from the Martians and over the 100 years spread from Jutland and the Oder to the Andriatic and the Dnieper laughing
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2018 22: 41
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          The cavalry sword was not used by the Romans, Gauls and Germans before the arrival of the Alans in the service of the Roman Empire.

          What are you talking about? Neither did the Romans deal with the Parthian army, completely equestrian, or earlier with light Numidian cavalry or heavy Carthaginian warfare during the Punic Wars? The Hellenistic states did not use cavalry against the Romans, of course - why? And if they used, then they definitely didn’t have long swords - only Alans had them. And then the Alans came and immediately the Romans taught how to chop off a horse. The Romans, the Germans and the Gauls, of course, could not sit on horses,
          Quote: Operator
          Only Alans got out of this situation, who compensated for the lack of stirrups by training from an early age to be held in the saddle with their knees.

          but long swords were immediately adopted from them - and suddenly it would come in handy ...
          Well, if you remember that the Alan army consisted almost exclusively of mounted riflemen and the heavy cavalry in it were represented only by the personal bodyguards of the leader, it immediately becomes clear who the whole world taught to use a long sword. By the way, the Alans had their swords up to the fig - metallurgists, they were nobles, forged them as I bake pancakes for Maslenitsa.
          Quote: Operator
          to chop with a long sword, sitting on a horse, you must have support in the form of stirrups

          Stirrups are needed for a ram strike with a spear, and not for cutting with a sword, especially since a galloping strike is always done while moving, i.e., if with the right hand, then from right to left, and not from top to bottom, as you probably think .
          Quote: Operator
          The "Reformat" portal contains all the information about the genetics of the northern and southern Wends / Veneti / Vendels and the chronology of their bone remains in the regions of the Jutland Peninsula and the Venetian Lagoon.

          So say: "I got the data on these studies from the articles of Klesov and other adherents of DNA genealogy. The articles do not contain any references to research materials, but I believe them and am not going to check them, since Academician Klesov cannot lie by definition, and therefore that the one who does not believe him at his word is a vile Russophobe. " Then everything will become clear.
          Quote: Operator
          Slavs appeared in the 7 century from the Martians and in 100 years spread from Jutland and the Oder to Andriatik and the Dnieper

          Now, if you write that the Slavic ethnos was finally formed in the 5th century AD, after which the Slavs began to settle in the territory of modern Europe and by the end of the 7th century AD the Slavs had already settled vast territories in the Middle Dnepr, in the Balkans, Central Europe, Eastern and Southern Baltic, it will be more accurate. smile
          Quote: Operator
          Jewish textbooks of Russian history

          laughing Laugh. I thought that your historical education did not go further than children's textbooks and Klesovsky reformat ... They did not disappoint me ... laughing
          I have already proposed here to one figure to consider the genealogy of the Russian people from the first protein molecule, especially since to a certain extent this is true. Come and join us. What a sensation: the DNA genealogy, true to the principle of scientific patriotism, proved that the first protein molecule is the ancestor of the Russian people, the Russian people are more than 4 billion years old! It sounds! No ukram will not keep up with us. laughing
          1. Operator
            Operator 17 September 2018 23: 33
            +1
            Trilobite Master

            Hehe, say, stirrups are needed for the spear - then see how the Cossacks cut the vine, standing on stirrups.

            Keep your kosher information about the equality of the Roman spatha and the Alan sword, about the "genealogy" of proteins, about the 5th century landing of the Martians-future Slavs, keep with you.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Mikhail Matyugin
          Mikhail Matyugin 18 October 2018 22: 55
          0
          Quote: Operator
          the cavalry sword was not used by the Romans, Gauls and Germans before the Alans came to the service of the Roman Empire for the simple reason - to chop with a long sword while sitting on a horse, you must have support in the form of stirrups, which the Romans, Gauls and Germans did not have from the word at all.

          Dear Mikhail, let me correct two of your mistakes: the first is the spats of the Romans - a completely different type of sword than the Sarmatian-Alanian; Celtic lengths of swords are the same, there is no connection with the Roman spate, they have more analogues with the ancient swords of the Minoan civilization.

          The second - stirrups are convenient FOR EVERYTHING, not only for ramming with a spear (a saddle with high bows is more necessary for it), but first of all for chopping - the strike is high, with a greater amplitude.
      2. Cat
        Cat 17 September 2018 18: 39
        +4
        Allow me to continue your thought Michael.
        The word "sword", according to the research of the scientist Grekov, is not of Slavic origin, like "hut", and many others that we all are originally Russian. But most of the researchers of philologists believe that both concepts have a deep and early borrowing from the Germanic languages ​​(many directly point to the Goths). So Michael's thesis about the emergence of the Slavic ethnos at the turn of the XNUMXth century A.D. has a more real and historical confirmation. Moreover, there is other evidence of the combined socio-cultural and political "pollination" of the proto-Germanic and proto-Slavic tribes. This proves the controversy of the belonging of the Chernyakhov culture or the tribal union known as "Antov".
        Moreover, with all due respect to Andrei (the Operator), I am a supporter of the fact that blood in the development of culture and society during the tribal system is initially a secondary condition. The narrow circle of the community of any dissent will either re-educate or kill. This is indirectly proved by the works of the Byzantine authors, who claimed that the Slavs lacked slaves or pointed to the temporary nature of slavery.
        Yours!
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2018 22: 54
          0
          Quote: Kotischa
          The word "sword", according to the research of the scientist Grekov, is not of Slavic origin, like "hut", and many others that we all are originally Russian.

          There are different points of view on this issue. Personally, she is closer, according to which the roots of such words as sword, prince, ax, and others are drawn from the proto-language, spoken by our common with the Germans, Scandinavians, French and other Italians and Spaniards ancestors.
        2. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky 20 September 2018 02: 27
          +1
          "Mikhail's thesis about the emergence of the Slavic ethnos at the turn of the XNUMXth century AD has a more real and historical confirmation" - this thesis has no "confirmation", it does not make sense at all. It's like saying that my family originated under my grandfather. Wasn't there a great-grandfather? The development of an ethnos is a continuous process and there can be no "emergence" in it by definition. If you meant some kind of "separation" from the general Balto-Slavic community, then here is also a question. Where is that magic word (and when it was), having learned that the Slavs suddenly became themselves, standing out from the "community", so that we could say with complete confidence - here they are, the Slavs, arose!
        3. Mikhail Matyugin
          Mikhail Matyugin 19 October 2018 21: 45
          0
          Quote: Kotischa
          The word "sword", according to the research of the scientist Grekov, is not of Slavic origin, like "hut", and many others that we all are originally Russian.

          Just in my two articles of the Gothic cycle, more precisely about the death of Visigothic Spain, even more precisely like in the comments, there was very detailed information about it. Everything is exactly there - the words that are associated with metallurgy and military affairs are borrowed from the Goths. Only the Proto-Slavs, having been previously conquered by the Goths, after the arrival of the Huns and the defeat of the state of Germanarich, remained in the Dnieper region and went over to the service of the Huns (hence the fixation of some supposedly "Hunnic", but in fact Slavic words by Roman and Gothic ambassadors to the court of Attila and his successors), and the Goths left their homes for Roman Europe.
      3. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 18 October 2018 22: 51
        0
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        And, in any case, the long sword could not be borrowed from the Alans, who were known only from the beginning of our era, since by that time it was already actively used by the Romans and the Gauls and the Germans.

        Because the long swords of the riders are an innovation of the Sarmatians.
  8. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 17 September 2018 19: 24
    +1
    Many Wendel-type swords have one interesting detail - a ring for pommel. It is small in size, and secured to it with a bracket. For what it is unknown. It is believed that it served as a distinction. Moreover, the rings on the early swords are fixed movably, but on later ones they are connected to the bracket. That is, this detail has lost all practical purposes. But since all the swords with rings are very richly decorated, we can assume that they represent the gifts of princes to noble warriors, and the rings on them are nothing but a hint of an oath of allegiance.
    Or maybe a certain strap was attached to the ring, so as not to raise a sword that was knocked out of hand in a fight? In order of the version of the complete profane ..
    Although the ax was perhaps equally significant, the Viking sword was valued significantly higher.
    Well, the sword was both a more status weapon and more expensive and showed that its owner was not poor. Who poorer probably started their "career" with an ax ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2018 19: 54
      0
      I was also visited by the thought of the lanyard mounting details, but this is probably too fragile an element for such purposes.
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 September 2018 20: 10
        +3
        Anton good evening! As an option, hang a sword over the blood on a carnation! drinks
        Carolingian fit in hand is very tight. Sometimes the pommel of the sword interferes with stabbing and jabbing. Knocking it out of your hand is almost impossible. Yes, the school of fencing, or rather the felling, did not assume anything like knocking the sword out of the hands. And the quality was not always "great". Recently I read the translation of the Nebelungs with comments. So the German authors and editors do not directly exclude the possibility of adjusting the blade with your foot.
        Sincerely, Kitty!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 September 2018 20: 28
          +2
          Vlad, I will not mind. I dismissed the lanyard option for purely technical reasons. However, I note that nothing is impossible, caroling is not a tarch.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2018 20: 37
          +3
          Quote: Kotischa
          Sometimes the sword top prevents it from stabbing and jabbing.

          Not being a major expert in this field, I would nevertheless note that in various sources I have repeatedly come across the opinion that "Carolingians" were not at all intended for stabbing, often the blade edge was even rounded. At the same time, in a dense formation, which was practiced by the Vikings, a massive pommel, which can be used to inflict a heavy blow on the enemy in close combat, made a certain sense.
          1. Cat
            Cat 17 September 2018 21: 11
            +5
            Michael about the rounded tips You are absolutely right. But the punch, I think, was still practiced as there was no other way to break the chain mail. As well as cutting blows under the shield on the reverse movement. It is not for nothing that many Viking coralings bore the name "Nogokus".
            For close combat, there was always a sax at hand.
            Anton, I don’t argue about the lanyard or the version of Victor. I jerk a little - my wife at the dacha hung all of my pneumatic trunks on one side for the eye (protective arc) of the triggers, and on the other for anti-tanks, and where there were no optical sights. So the logic is iron if there is a hole, then there should be a carnation !!!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 September 2018 21: 44
              +3
              Yes, everything is fine.
              "Your sword to dry
              Hanging ahead of time
              If there is an eye -
              Place for a nail "
              "Middle Edda"
        3. Mikado
          Mikado 17 September 2018 21: 02
          +6
          Sometimes the top of the sword interferes with stabbing and punching. To knock him out of hand is almost unrealistic.

          I venture to suggest - the top helped to maintain the balance of the weapon in the hand. what
  9. kalibr
    17 September 2018 22: 42
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    The cavalry sword was not used by the Romans, Gauls and Germans before the arrival of the Alans in the service of the Roman Empire.

    Used and how!
    1. Operator
      Operator 17 September 2018 23: 51
      +2
      A spath 70 cm long was used, a Carolingian sword 90 cm long was not (by definition).

      In addition, you do not understand the place of spatha and the Carolingian sword in the armament of the Romans and barbarians, respectively (bearded men - Alans, Germans, Slavs, Scandinavians, etc.). The Romans were financially secured and at the very least systematically trained their cavalrymen to master the spat, and the barbarians were poorer, studied unsystematically and only those who had the opportunity to acquire such a valuable type of weapon as a steel sword.

      Alan resettlement center (Alanya) in the first centuries A.D. was the North Caucasus, so the Alans (unlike the rest of the barbarians) had direct channels for receiving many steel billets for swords from the metallurgical centers of the Caucasus - damn it, you yourself wrote about them in your articles on metallurgy.

      Elementary chopping with a sword, especially cavalry, required training, and chopping with an ax was practically nonexistent (I'm not talking about fencing). Therefore, the main type of cold weapons of the barbarians was an ax (combat, of course). Status weapons - the sword was mainly owned by the military leaders of the barbarians.
  10. kalibr
    17 September 2018 22: 51
    +2
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    I’m already used to proving your statements by facts, the reliability of which is not confirmed by anything, but still I ask you again: deign to reveal the source of this secret knowledge - who, when and in what way proved that the Venets had the R1 haplogroup, yes also the East European subclade and no other. Roughly speaking: what burials were attributed as exactly Wenedian, what genetic materials were preserved in them, what is the result of the analysis, and who exactly carried it out and when?

    He is a happy man. Not for you and not for me! Once said - it is! It is necessary for us as well!
  11. kalibr
    17 September 2018 22: 52
    +3
    Quote: Kotischa
    To knock him out of hand is almost unrealistic.

    Exactly!
  12. Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 19 September 2018 14: 01
    -3
    Viking swords ... lol
    Viking Spears, Viking Shields, Viking Axes negative
    Viking pots, Viking stoves, Viking pans, Viking pans, Viking scoops fool
    Viking chickens, Viking pigs, Viking geese, Viking cows, Viking dogs, Viking mice wassat
    Viking oil, Viking meat, Viking bread, Viking stew, Viking wine, Viking beer drinks
    Viking boots, viking pants, viking shirts, viking raincoats, viking caps hi
    Where to go then it was all the rest .... It seems that in medieval Europe without the Vikings even, sorry, it was impossible to poke. crying
    "Viking swords" are probably the ones that are usually called Carolingians and appeared long before the notorious "Viking Age"? belay
    1. kalibr
      19 September 2018 16: 17
      -1
      A certain culture is being considered, what do you dislike?
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 20 September 2018 01: 01
        -1
        Why everyone doesn’t like it ... really like it, you have interesting and well-written articles.
        But with the universal activity of the Vikings you are a bit overdoing, in my opinion.
    2. Ottor
      Ottor 19 September 2018 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: Beringovsky

      Where to go then it was all the rest .... It seems that in medieval Europe without the Vikings even, sorry, it was impossible to poke. crying

      Oddly enough, but in VIII-X it was just like this:
      "But from the taiga to the British seas
      The Viking army is the strongest. "
      wassat
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 20 September 2018 01: 14
        -1
        I will advise you to read ... hmm, sources of that time, well, let's say some kind of annals there wink Fulda, Xantenn, Metz, etc. And you will immediately understand that the role of the Vikings in the European history of that time is very exaggerated (except for England).
        And they were often beaten, and contemporaries did not consider them great warriors - this is now what they did out of them.
        1. Ottor
          Ottor 20 September 2018 14: 01
          +2
          Fulda, Xantenn, Metz

          I will expand my horizons with pleasure.
          Name of the author + name of the book - better in the original language.
          Thanks in advance.
        2. Ottor
          Ottor 20 September 2018 15: 45
          +1
          Speaking of Xanten annals.
          At the beginning of the 863th century, a new church is being built. This church was destroyed by the Normans in XNUMX.

          repeat
          1. Beringovsky
            Beringovsky 20 September 2018 15: 54
            0
            Well, here, the Annals of Xanten have already found, which means you will find the Fuldsky and many other sources. But I don’t care, if you want to continue to believe in fairy tales about the omnipresent and almighty Vikings - believe in health.
    3. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 18 October 2018 22: 59
      0
      Funny but I will give a couple of comments.

      Quote: Beringovsky
      viking bread

      By the way, it was something like crackers, or rather dry, very baked loaves.

      Quote: Beringovsky
      viking wine, viking beer

      Vikings did not make wine, but their beer is still known - it’s ol \ el.
  13. kalibr
    20 September 2018 19: 12
    -2
    Quote: Beringovsky
    A boiler cult is a steppe cult, by the way

    Where did you get this from?
  14. kalibr
    20 September 2018 19: 14
    0
    Quote: Ottor
    there is no such generally accepted concept - it’s all from the evil one.

    Well said, sovsam dzhigit!
  15. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 20 September 2018 19: 38
    0
    The question, if you will, is not specifically about the weapons described in the article ..
    But about the ancestors of swords ..
    If possible, please write about weapons of more ancient times, say, Egypt, where there were strange sickle-shaped blades in our opinion ..
    The evolution of edged weapons is interesting, caused both by the improvement of defenses and the development of blacksmithing, which in turn entailed a change in battle tactics.
    I think a similar series of articles would be very interesting.
    Even if you wrote about something similar, it is possible that you have changed your mind or received new information.
    1. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 18 October 2018 23: 00
      +1
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      where the sickle-shaped blades were strange in our opinion.

      There were already articles about the armament of ancient Egypt; what you write about is called "khopesh", a rather peculiar variant of the sword, the closest analogue is the saber.
  16. abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 12 November 2018 08: 17
    0
    Caption:
    Crosshair of the Anglo-Saxon sword of the era of the Great Migration. (Ashmol Museum, Oxford)
    wrong.
    This is not a crosshair, but an overlay on the mouth of the scabbard.
  17. Avior
    Avior 1 December 2018 12: 42
    -1
    considered somehow a rather large private collection of weapons, including cold weapons.
    for some types, the size of the handle, shape, angle of attachment to the blade, in my opinion, makes such a weapon very inconvenient to use.
    Modern handles are much more convenient and practical, and no special technologies are needed for this
    I wonder if it was the ancestors who thought it over or somehow specifically used it?