Military Review

We underestimate the Ukrainian army and beyond?

159
The fifth year comes, as they make fun of the servicemen of the Ukrainian army, who then themselves explode in their own minefields, then die from a drug overdose in the trenches, then eat snakes caught in the nearest ravine or unsuccessfully test Molotov mortars.


However, an important detail is missing behind all these reviews: a huge number of problems in the Ukrainian army, but nevertheless over the past four years, including with the help of NATO instructors and representatives of the special services, they managed to create an openly hostile in relation to Russia armed conglomerate. This is an association of people, a large percentage of whom hate with fierce hatred everything that is at least somehow connected with Russia, and against the background of hatred of their own authorities, driving them into the mouth of the civil war, called by Kiev “the Russian hybrid”.

Under the conditions of total corruption, the half-starved army of Ukraine is consolidating on openly Russophobic propaganda, arming itself with lethal weapons, is trained and trained as much as possible. Volunteer corps provide radical formations with literally everything: from toilet paper to optical sights of the latest modifications. Throw funds compassionate russophobes from outside the Russian Federation "to the rebel struggle."

The Ukrainian army, from recently scattered and demoralized, burning in boilers, at different stages of the “execution” of the Minsk agreements, has obviously become more equipped and stronger. How ready is this equipment to manifest is a question that can actually cost thousands of human lives, and no one is going to count these lives in Kiev. APU can be underestimated further, but how expensive can it cost?

We underestimate the Ukrainian army and beyond?


Information for note: The Armed Forces of Ukraine started preparing equipment for reservists. It is noted that 100% tanks The T-72, which underwent modernization at Ukrainian enterprises, was equipped with the 5th reserve corps brigade. Reservists developed tank control skills during tactical exercises, which were observed by military attaches of foreign countries. The exercises were held at the Goncharovsky military training ground.

Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of Ukraine
159 comments
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  1. Ross_ulair
    Ross_ulair 13 September 2018 15: 06
    +36
    Hitler also West armed in record time.
    There was no army, from the word "absolutely". And in the end - the world is on fire
    1. NIKN
      NIKN 13 September 2018 15: 12
      +2
      The Ukrainian army from more recently disparate and demoralized, burning in boilers, at different stages of the "execution" of the Minsk agreements, it has obviously become more equipped and stronger.
      Until the next boiler will "improve morally"
      1. cniza
        cniza 13 September 2018 19: 00
        +1
        But misfortunes can be done.
    2. Prisoner
      Prisoner 13 September 2018 15: 55
      +34
      And our lads chanted at rallies that the working people of Germany would not go against the Soviet state. Let's go. And they walked famously until they washed themselves in a bloody yushka. Shapkozakidatelstvoe coupled with the romanticization of proletarian solidarity is not gud. hi
      1. Li17
        Li17 14 September 2018 07: 05
        +5
        Clearly and correctly! I can add that before the USSR, jokes about "one plane and a sick pilot" were told about the PRC!
      2. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 15 September 2018 12: 44
        0
        Another way to bring to life our young and young generation, until it is washed in a bloody yushka, there is no alternative. The big problem is breaking the continuity of generations. Evidence is not needed here, just look around. For this reason, the manufacturing sector of the economy is bent, because there is no one to work for, because the majority is aimed exclusively at freebies, or at all to escape somewhere .. If this is not stopped, the consequences will be very severe, if not catastrophic.
      3. Shteffan
        Shteffan 19 September 2018 09: 36
        0
        interestingly washed, having lost 10limons. against our 30ti. some blasphemy so flaunt and fool against the background of losses 1 to 3. don’t you find?
    3. lopvlad
      lopvlad 13 September 2018 16: 20
      +7
      Quote: ROSS_Ulair
      Hitler also West armed in record time.


      Hitler armed himself by creating the best design school in the world and defense enterprises in the world.
      The West only gave him money for which a fascist war machine was created and it took almost a decade of peaceful development filled with Western money. By modernity and technological effectiveness, the German army was tens of times ahead of all the countries of the world before the 1939 war.

      German fascism and tufted Bandera are completely different things. Here terrorist attacks and civilians Bandera perfectly know how to fight with the regular army, it turns into a rout.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 13 September 2018 18: 19
        0
        Quote: lopvlad
        tufted banderism is completely different things

        Bandera ... It seems to me that in the event of a military conflict, no one will get away with phrases like: "Wait a minute!" with raising his hand in a famous gesture. Photography is well developed, and computer programs are able to find and identify any "involved".
        Regarding the phrase:
        We underestimate the Ukrainian army and beyond?

        Perhaps it will be more accurate:
        Underestimate the Russian army? Then the arctic fox will come to you ...
      2. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 13 September 2018 20: 40
        0
        Quote: lopvlad
        German fascism and tufted Banderism are completely different things.

        Well yes. And the pipe is lower and the smoke is thinner. In addition, they are imprisoned exclusively against Russia, and perhaps they do not pray to Z. Europe.
      3. Vanek
        Vanek 14 September 2018 03: 37
        +5
        Quote: lopvlad
        the best design school in the world


        To change the inner skating rink to "Tiger", you need to remove the ENTIRE outer row, half of the second and remove a few more from the third.

        Quote: lopvlad
        ahead of all countries of the world


        ZiS 2, 57 mm. Why was removed / stopped from production?

        Only for Speers, Schmeisers and others von Browns to tell. Yeah.
        1. smart ass
          smart ass 14 September 2018 05: 39
          +2
          Fau1, fau2, the first guided bomb, the first fighter jet, the first assault rifle, a submarine of the 21st series, night vision devices on panthers. Ahead of all the countries of the world and this is true.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 14 September 2018 15: 13
            +2
            Quote: Clever man
            Fau1, Fau2,

            very dubious projects given the cost and effectiveness.
            Quote: Clever man
            first fighter jet

            did you want to say the first prototype? in the series did not go. that is, it was never made serial. the first serial from the British.
            Quote: Clever man
            first assault rifle

            do you mean the machine? then the first is Fedorov (1913-1916)
            if about machines for an intermediate cartridge, then again the achievement is not one of the most outstanding.
            Quote: Clever man
            21st series submarine

            umm ... is this an outstanding name? or application history?
            Quote: Clever man
            panther night vision devices.

            1939-1941 year. BT7 with night vision devices. google wink
            Quote: Clever man
            Ahead of all the countries of the world and this is true.

            you need to be a very stubborn germphile to "really be so" wassat
      4. mvg
        mvg 14 September 2018 14: 43
        +1
        all countries of the world dozens of times

        What 10 times, and in what? Spitfires are no worse than the Messerschmitt, French and Czech tanks are at least no worse than the Pz.1, Pz.2, British and American ships are better than their German counterparts, the British and Italians had jet engines, the American and English bombers are also better than the Junkers and Dornier ... So what is better, especially 10 times?
      5. Alber
        Alber 14 September 2018 18: 11
        +2
        Quote: lopvlad
        Quote: ROSS_Ulair
        Hitler also West armed in record time.


        Hitler armed himself by creating the best design school in the world and defense enterprises in the world.
        The West only gave him money for which a fascist war machine was created and it took almost a decade of peaceful development filled with Western money. By modernity and technological effectiveness, the German army was ten times ahead of all the countries of the world before the 1939 war

        Hitler funded usurers-bankers of one hitozado breed
        Quote: lopvlad
        German fascism and tufted Banderism are completely different things.

        the most interesting thing is that this, as you say, hahlyah Banderism actually has Jewish roots.
        Stepan Bandera is a baptized Jew.
        Roman Shukhevych as well.
        all the current Bandera-fascists in Ukraine, Parashenki-Waltzmanns, Nicknames-Ethinsons, Turchinovs-Kogans, Timashenks-Kaptelmans, including ardent Nazis Tyagniboki-Frotmans, Yaroshi, Semenchenki, etc. they are all Jewish blood
        1. Orakul2000
          Orakul2000 14 September 2018 19: 13
          -6
          That's why you are engaged in provocation? After all, neither you nor the authors of the libels you have read have any real evidence that the Jews financed Hitler !! But there are documents on deliveries of the widest range of raw materials from the USSR to Germany until the last day. And you want to say that Stalin did not know which regime he was delivering the goods to? But why don’t you remember about 2 millions of Soviet citizens of non-Jewish nationality who served in the Wehrmacht?
          Before anyone presenting something or blaming someone for something, it would be nice to look in the mirror at your own face !!!
          1. 97110
            97110 15 September 2018 12: 55
            +1
            Quote: Orakul2000
            some real evidence that

            of course not. And if you throw out of your speech is not written in Russian, then we see that not a single evidence ..? Or does the surname Waltzman have a very small relation to the powder? What is your state, if it was politically expedient, how many ordinary Jews you want to bury silently can know for a long time. We don’t mind - your people. Just do not scream so loudly about the Holocaust (and about the Holocaust).
          2. Alber
            Alber 18 September 2018 12: 43
            0
            Quote: Orakul2000
            why don’t you remember about almost 2 million Soviet citizens of non-Jewish nationality who served in the Wehrmacht?


            And 100000 people of Jewish origin who served in the Wehrmacht are not your people?
            And yet, by the way, about provocations? why did the Jew of Bandera kill the burns and hang his Jews in Ukraine? not because in Odessa the Jew Mosiychuk shot at his own, and Semyon Semenchenki, Tyagniboki-Frottmany, Yaroshi?
          3. Alber
            Alber 18 September 2018 12: 54
            0
            Quote: Orakul2000
            Before anyone presenting something or blaming someone for something, it would be nice to look at your face yourself in the mirror!

            Zionism is trying to foment a world war. All recent major wars, as well as political and financial crises, are organized by leaders of Jewish origin, in order to get a gesheft from this
    4. Gato
      Gato 14 September 2018 08: 39
      +1
      There was no army, from the word "absolutely".

      It was - 100000. Moreover, in conditions of total unemployment in the Weimar Republic, the best were selected there. At least almost all officers and non-commissioners are World War 1 veterans. This was the cadre of the future Wehrmacht.
      1. Ross_ulair
        Ross_ulair 14 September 2018 23: 20
        0
        I am aware of this.
        But in an era when 5 divisions did not decide anything - this army is nothing more than parade units for shagistiki on the parade ground.
        Until they began to arm and turn a blind eye to the entry of these troops into the demilitarized zones.
        I’ll keep silent about the complete absence of the fleet. As well as the ban on having modern weapons (which the West put high on)
  2. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 13 September 2018 15: 08
    +13
    No one appreciates it, otherwise there would be no lost stray Russian border guards and military from the Crimea, there would be no victims among the militias. But it’s not worth praising it. This is a job for specialists. The ongoing conflict is a two-edged sword that will outweigh us it’s not known, but in my opinion a bloody mess is yet to come. But the main thing is that their souls are not ripe for a war with Russia. One people still remember one homeland. I don’t think the junta and nationalists are marginalized. They will never go to hell the first.
    1. kakvastam
      kakvastam 13 September 2018 15: 55
      +12
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      No one appreciates it

      We assume that this means an adequate assessment of the Ukrainian army.
      It was only four years ago that the problem could be solved by a police operation, and after another four years you will have to pay many thousands of lives, and the result cannot be predicted in advance.
      1. credo
        credo 13 September 2018 16: 03
        -3
        Quote: kakvastam
        Only four years ago, the problem could be solved by a police operation,

        Uncover the secret of your "miraculous" operation and the birthplace of the police force.
  3. mavrus
    mavrus 13 September 2018 15: 09
    +4
    In four years, a rabbit can be taught to play a drum. And to teach skakuasa "all over the world" to fight ...
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 16: 00
      +8
      To fight for what? It is one thing to bomb women and children with impunity in the Donbass, and another thing to get to the fullest from the regular army.

      Ordinary miners and taxi drivers, militias from Donetsk and Lugansk have already filled endless fields under the Dnepropetrovsk cargo with 200 stubborn and deceived.

      Until 080808, rodents were also taught and taught to all NATO, but only, like Lermontov's "timid Georgians fled" without looking back and abandoning the weapons and equipment bought and donated by NATO members.
  4. Vladimir 5
    Vladimir 5 13 September 2018 15: 11
    +4
    The first commandment is to make an ally out of the enemy, for some reason everything is done with us everything is the other way around. Here our enemies quickly made Ukraine from the enemy to their allies ... So they allowed, it means to replay back, but it is violet for our embezzlers ...
    1. credo
      credo 13 September 2018 16: 06
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir 5
      The first commandment is to make an ally out of the enemy, for some reason everything is done with us everything is the other way around. Here our enemies quickly made Ukraine from the enemy to their allies ... So they allowed, it means to replay back, but it is violet for our embezzlers ...

      I wonder how you imagine this process and when was Ukraine, over the years of its "independence" an enemy of the collective West?
      1. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 13 September 2018 16: 48
        +1
        Talking about the Ukrainian people, and not individual Yurchen women with their spouse, American by birth and other Kolomoys and Kernes, with Israeli passports, are Westerners by definition .. And today, the majority of Ukrainians, in connection with the war in the Donbass and ten-year anti-Russian agendas, are already completely anti-Russian ...
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 14 September 2018 15: 22
          +2
          Quote: Vladimir 5
          Talk about the Ukrainian people

          and the "Ukrainian people" are historically hostile to everything Russian. Ukrainians were created precisely on the basis of hatred for everything Russian, and from Russians.
          so until they remember that they are Russians there is nothing to talk to them about. it is an initially hostile ideology. there are no good or bad ISIS, there are ISIS. there are no good or bad fascists, there are fascists. there are no good or bad Ukrainians, there are Ukrainians. this has been proven by historical experience and facts. and in 1917, and in 1941, and in 1993. they say that "the third time is magic", but for some reason they waited for the fourth in 2014 ...
          1. Vladimir 5
            Vladimir 5 14 September 2018 20: 49
            0
            They correctly noted the roots of the beginning of the building of anti-Russian Ukrainians (Little Russians) against the Great Russians by Austrians and Germans in the 19th century and were raised to the top by the WWI, creating hetmanism and other Petliuraism in occupied Ukraine. But the USSR was the main creator of Ukrainian statehood, where it adopted the final features of a separate state, and today it must be taken into account. Because Ukraine is already a separate state and build relations as with a neighboring independent state. A misunderstanding of these cornerstone concepts harms relations between Russia and Ukraine ...
            1. Vladimir 5
              Vladimir 5 14 September 2018 20: 56
              -1
              Additive. And the fact that the modern leadership of the Russian Federation has been engaged in hydrocarbon speculation in Ukraine since the beginning of the 21st century, squeezing additional profits, and not seeing the US efforts to turn Ukraine into an anti-Russian bastion, is the fault of our rulers who not only lost Ukraine, but also failed the development of Russia (probably due to the theft of the treasury of the Russian Federation) ...
            2. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 17 September 2018 17: 27
              0
              Quote: Vladimir 5
              building anti-Russian Ukrainians (Little Russians) against Great Russians

              It is interesting, but in the Catholic encyclopedia, where the political movement "Ukrainians" is mentioned, it is the political movement of the "Little Russians" advocating closeness with Russia that is named their main enemy.
              Quote: Vladimir 5
              But the USSR was the main creator of Ukrainian statehood, where it adopted the final features of a separate state, and today it must be taken into account.
              I would completely agree with you if I had not been there about 8 years ago. all that we have done now is not in the USSR, namely in Ukraine and from 2014 to this day.
              Quote: Vladimir 5
              Because Ukraine is already a separate state and build relations as with a neighboring independent state.

              I do not see the logic in this. eastern Ukraine clearly said with whom they are.
              IMHO now the government of the Russian Federation needs Ukraine precisely as a garbage can, so that it is something to point with a finger. what will happen next, let's see.
  5. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 13 September 2018 15: 11
    0
    The enemy, of course, can not be underestimated, but also not necessary to overestimate. Their T72 tanks are protected worse than our budget T72B, without bulwarks, without dynamic protection, these are just good targets for missiles. They try to take in quantity, because they are still very far from quality.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 16: 04
      +1
      The main part in the tank is between the seat and the triplex.
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner 13 September 2018 16: 23
        +2
        One hope that this detail has at least a small consideration for the Groisamuns and the valtsman will not burn.
    2. credo
      credo 13 September 2018 16: 12
      +3
      Quote: ANCIENT
      The enemy, of course, can not be underestimated, but also not necessary to overestimate. Their T72 tanks are protected worse than our budget T72B, without bulwarks, without dynamic protection, these are just good targets for missiles. They try to take in quantity, because they are still very far from quality.

      I think that if the Kiev junta started a war with Russia in earnest, then our western "partners" would have arranged express delivery of any high-quality weapons for the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the highest level. So, one should evaluate not only the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the statements of the Kiev junta, but also their curators, and the curators then sit at a low start and are just waiting for a reason, persistently pitting Ukraine against Russia.
    3. Serg koma
      Serg koma 14 September 2018 18: 28
      +1
      DZ and bulwarks can be hung without problems. Again, it’s not a fact that they didn’t hang it specifically for the "exercises", anyhow the reservists didn’t tear it off in front of the attaché.
      Remember OUR nineties, when the pilots did not fly, the tankers did not "tank", the sailors went to sea for SPONSOR money ... Learning to show off a NATO member is one thing, and the planned training work with the same reservist tankers does not require small funds. The Germans counted how much it cost to train one pilot - they shed tears, kaklam of the money that Western sponsors allocate for the Ukrainian Armed Forces (excluding theft and sawing) it is unlikely that it will be enough to train qualified personnel on an army scale (the brigade has not gone far yet) + considerable costs for DB in Donbass what they can - "accelerated takeoff / landing". Everything is designed only for the url of patriots set on the source of all the troubles of the outskirts - "cannon fodder" however
  6. Sonet
    Sonet 13 September 2018 15: 12
    +18
    The arguments of homegrown ,, potreota ,, such
    -Then let them poke into Russia, so how do we pile on them ...
    It’s obvious, but you don’t need to build other idiots out of yourself, because THEY ONE will never turn up. The situation needs to be looked at from the other side. Global. In the event of a clash between Russia and NATO, the Ukrainian army will not be a small obstacle for our army. I I would say so-NATO will set the Ukrainians the task of holding the Russians back for 3-4 weeks-until the main forces of the United States and NATO in Europe are deployed. For all this, it turns out, we will pay the loss of our people.
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 13 September 2018 15: 36
      -2
      Quote: Sonet
      -Then let them poke into Russia, so how do we pile on them ...
      Bulk. Undoubtedly, but you don’t need to build other idiots out of yourself. BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE to never poke around.

      So no one is going to sign for them either. In the 1930s, Americans and the British economically raised Hitler and the British, but by the mid-40s they sharply lowered it, moreover, sharply. And they lowered these right away, only a couple of baskets of cookies were handed out ...
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 13 September 2018 15: 43
        0
        Quote: Fitter65
        Quote: Sonet
        -Then let them poke into Russia, so how do we pile on them ...
        Bulk. Undoubtedly, but you don’t need to build other idiots out of yourself. BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE to never poke around.

        So no one is going to sign for them either. In the 1930s, Americans and the British economically raised Hitler and the British, but by the mid-40s they sharply lowered it, moreover, sharply. And they lowered these right away, only a couple of baskets of cookies were handed out ...

        Yes, there is zero investment in the economy, to say the least. So the task of the Skakuas, according to the plan of the Saxons, is different or everything just happened unexpectedly and there was no long-term plan.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Tibidokh
      Tibidokh 13 September 2018 15: 38
      +9
      Quote: Sonet
      NATO will set the Ukrainians the task of keeping the Russians out for 3-4 weeks

      I respect your opinion, but personally I see the problem elsewhere.
      It is often impossible to distinguish Russian from Ukraine. This is only the young generation, under 14 years old, begins to forget the Russian language. The older generation, Great and Mighty, knows very well.
      In fact, we have a hostile neighboring country in which there are potentially a lot of saboteurs ... recourse
      1. Lebedev
        Lebedev 13 September 2018 16: 11
        +5
        Removed from the tongue .... It is in the terrorist component that the main danger
        1. Tibidokh
          Tibidokh 13 September 2018 17: 11
          +1
          Quote: Lebedev
          in the terrorist component the main danger

          drinks
          Tefari from the West are probably already developing manuals and doctrines. recourse
      2. Antares
        Antares 13 September 2018 21: 47
        +3
        Quote: Tibidokh
        This is only the young generation, under 14 years old, begins to forget the Russian language. The older generation, Great and Mighty, knows very well.

        Many children speak Russian and Ukrainian when using cases (spoken in the family is Russian and means basic Russian)
        So the Great and Mighty is not a problem. He is not much and differs from the "sleeping"
    3. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 16: 07
      +1
      In the event of a clash between Russia and NATO, there will be no one left from the PRO € BALTs in a couple of hours, but from the Ukrainians the next day.

      There will be no ordinary war. Or the world. Or immediately thermonuclear death to all. Why do we need such a world if Russia will not be in it? Do you know who said that?
      1. Alf
        Alf 13 September 2018 21: 39
        +4
        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
        Do you know who said that?

        He gave a tooth about retirement ...
    4. YUG64
      YUG64 13 September 2018 16: 46
      +1
      What do the homegrown patriots have to do with it ... Isn't Ukraine itself talking about massive dismissals of officers in the last six months? If I'm not mistaken, the figure is about 18 ... Nobody says that the ukroarmiya can't do anything at all - but the motivation is weak , otherwise such large-scale layoffs simply would not have happened ... And about "a considerable obstacle for the Russian army" - you got excited?
    5. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 14 September 2018 15: 29
      0
      Quote: Sonet
      I would say so-NATO will set the Ukrainians the task of holding the Russians back for 3-4 weeks-until the main forces of the United States and NATO in Europe are deployed. For all this, it turns out, we will pay the loss of our people.

      war is such an event in which they kill. if you expect to spread the rolls and eat enough that you will not be killed in this regard, then hopes are wrong.
      about how NATO deploys troops in 3-4 weeks, read on the basis of the conflict 08.08.08.
  7. Mariner
    Mariner 13 September 2018 15: 13
    +12
    Never underestimate anyone. Underestimation - the mother of defeat, in any of the areas, including the military. One must be adequately prepared.
  8. Roma 1977
    Roma 1977 13 September 2018 15: 19
    +9
    The army is not a group of "cool" looking men in used NATO uniforms. First of all, these are aviation, artillery and tanks, with all the accompanying support. And in a full-scale war, these are huge resources that strain even serious economies, not like the Ukrainian one.
    1. kakvastam
      kakvastam 13 September 2018 16: 00
      0
      Quote: Roma-1977
      The army is not a group of "cool" looking men in used NATO uniforms.

      Not certainly in that way.
      Army is Not only group (hereinafter in the text). But first of all - it is the "group", because the technique without a trained and motivated fighter is just a paradise for a second-iron merchant.
      And just the enemy is now training.
    2. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 16: 08
      +6
      The army is, first of all, the willingness to give ends, following the order.

      This is not the Ukrainian army for sure.
  9. 23424636
    23424636 13 September 2018 15: 20
    +15
    someone really wants to merge the Donbass, Here they fill up Zakharchenko and his allegedly internal army will be transferred to the military corps, which will be called stupidly the police. The concept police introduced Minsk for internal law enforcement and did not require anything from the opposite side if regular troops oppose the republics . .In essence, the army as such is not on paper. And this sky leaflet was only an instruction for the Donetsk and Lugansk republics and in Kiev they don’t even say anything about it, even Kuchma Pakhan even said that “Minsk was all.” now there’s no one to fill the hole with, like a rare polecat similar to the ferret Pushilin, has already announced the denationalization of markets and other households so carefully collected by Tashkent to collect the dough for the republic’s income. And the fact that this Jew will not threaten Kiev and raise the spirits of the troops even the blind grandmother can be seen. Here you need to put serious, maybe Donbass boys with general posts in Russian troops then in Donetsk in the place of Zakhar, and do it soon.
    1. kakvastam
      kakvastam 13 September 2018 16: 02
      +1
      Quote: 23424636
      someone really wants to drain the Donbass

      Not for nothing that he pounced on his knee ...
    2. Overland whale
      Overland whale 13 September 2018 21: 59
      0
      so carefully collected by Tashkent to collect dough for the republic’s income

      You made a big mistake with the goals of Tashkent.
  10. Michael_59
    Michael_59 13 September 2018 15: 20
    -1
    Hava Nagila! Nagila hava!
  11. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2018 15: 21
    +8
    The half-heartedness of the 2014 measures is already visible to the naked eye. It was necessary to finish off this case even then with little blood. The point is not only about strengthening the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the point is that Russophobia is spreading with a cancerous tumor and infects new young (formerly purely Russian) souls with the bacillus of "Ukrainians", invented, equipped with pseudo history and pseudo-language, from the once Russian dialects already turning into pure Polonisms ... As Pavel Shekhtman joked, "today an airplane is a litak, tomorrow it may be a winged hobbyist."
  12. AleBors
    AleBors 13 September 2018 15: 23
    +2
    I do not agree with the main message of the article. And who underestimates? On Russophobia and dope with blue, they tightened their brains ... So what? Bad, but not deadly. And it is being treated ..
  13. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2018 15: 23
    +3
    Quote: ANCIENT
    Their T72 tanks are protected worse than our budget T72B, without bulwarks, without dynamic protection, these are just good targets for missiles.

    ------------------------
    I remember the Wehrmacht also had so-so tanks, but after the occupation the Czechs "fitted them" about 5 chassis and tanks that attacked the USSR in 1941. I mean that they will be fitted with the necessary equipment from Eastern Europe.
    1. maykl8
      maykl8 13 September 2018 15: 36
      0
      I remember the Wehrmacht also had so-so tanks, but after the occupation the Czechs "fitted them" about 5 chassis and tanks that attacked the USSR in 1941. I mean that they will be fitted with the necessary equipment from Eastern Europe.

      And ... and .... and ?!
      Even if the floor of NATO drives them it will not be compared. And Russia is enough for defense.
  14. Loess
    Loess 13 September 2018 15: 24
    +3
    APU can be underestimated further, but how much can it cost?
    I believe that those who should have a sound assessment of the state of the Armed Forces. And the media can afford to make fun of it further.
    over soldiers of the Ukrainian army, which themselves explode in their own minefields, either die from an overdose of drugs in the trenches, dine with snakes caught in a nearby ravine, or unsuccessfully test the Hammer mortars.
    There is little demand from them (from the media), the main thing for them is to maintain their rating ... Unfortunately.
  15. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 13 September 2018 15: 27
    +2
    And it was not necessary for them to leave so much technology. Now slurp a full spoon ... Americans need to start a war near our borders. They will not spare any money for this ...
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 48
      0
      I don’t think there would be a war ...

      At night, all the iron would have been bombed, and in the morning there would have been a police operation to find and remove the hidden Bandera from the caches. The rest would just run home.
  16. maykl8
    maykl8 13 September 2018 15: 28
    0
    This is an association of people, a large percentage of whom hate with fierce hatred everything that is at least somehow connected with Russia, and against the backdrop of hatred of their own authorities, driving them into the maw of the civil war called Kiev “Russian hybrid”.

    And how the Germans hated "everything that is somehow connected with Russia." "We couldn't even eat!" (C) And now there is a monument in Berlin ...
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 45
      +1
      And our grandfathers harassed the most "clear-cut" Germans, and those who had flat feet, foolishness and homosexuality (crossed out) gave offspring and multiplied. And the latter, which are crossed out, paradoxically, multiplied the most. Although the Nazis themselves did not stand on ceremony with them.
  17. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 13 September 2018 15: 30
    +4
    In 2014, it was necessary to take Crimea to Lviv itself. At that time, the Armed Forces of Ukraine consisted of 70 servicemen, stomped below the baseboard by the more coveted authorities, and by the Maidan too. And now there are already 000 of them, in the environmental protection zone 250. So far, not many. Let's wait until they get half a million? Yes, they don’t have money for aviation. And if NATO helps them? Why did American tankers fly to Lviv? Preparing to refuel rusty Ukrainian tanks? Or maybe a small aircraft APU? Hardly. How much more time will the Kremlin give NATO to prepare for aggression against Russia?
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 41
      +4
      I’ll clarify: it was necessary to solve the problem along the Polish border, because since no one should have any illusions, living in peace with the ukronazists would not work.

      So much blood has already been shed - everyone who is messed up must answer for this.
    2. kakvastam
      kakvastam 13 September 2018 16: 07
      0
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      How much more time will the Kremlin give NATO to prepare for aggression against Russia?

      How much is needed, so much will be allocated. For partners - it’s not a pity.
    3. Metallurg_2
      Metallurg_2 14 September 2018 09: 55
      0
      Exactly enough to agree on the fate of their "over-earned" billions in foreign banks.
  18. Million
    Million 13 September 2018 15: 34
    +3
    It is only our media that make fun of Ukraine and its army. Do not forget that not so long ago we were one state and had the combat experience of the Second World War and other local conflicts.
    We must adequately assess strengths and capabilities, and not laugh at individual shortcomings, which we have enough
  19. Jerk
    Jerk 13 September 2018 15: 35
    +1
    Ukrainian army from a very recently fragmented and demoralized

    ... turned into a highly motivated herd of punishers. And the punitive fighting value - zero, a lot of Dirlewanger’s brigade won? They ruined the ARMY for themselves, and the army is not only the helmets pumped up by propaganda, they have one thought knocking on their helmets - I’ll kill everyone, I’ll stay alone.
    About "armed" with old stuff and taught ... We swim, we know, in 2008 they didn’t use old stuff, it ended badly, tk. also taught by those who have not fought for a long time, and the war did not win. So, only punitive operations were carried out. Valuable, yes, since it is necessary to clean up the territory, but who said that it would be useful?
    How's it going, peace in Iraq? In Afghanistan? Here dill and run - maybe they will not rest right away
  20. Приговор
    Приговор 13 September 2018 15: 39
    +2
    What has become better is no doubt. Still, most of the money of American, European, Israeli and other sponsors reaches the addressee despite the theft. But, believe me, there is no other army in the world now that we would not be so closely monitored on our part. Therefore, the whining “ah, everything is gone” is not necessary. We recall how much the “partners” once planted money in Georgians. Did it help them much? Let us drive and pump them with money, the resources of the enemy stupidly spent by our hands are only at hand, while they think that the hands of the neighboring natives can hurt Russia, they will not reach out to us in person. In addition, we really need time to re-equip the army and prepare it for the Great War. At any cost.
  21. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 39
    +3
    The problems that politicians have been solving for years trying to come to an agreement, to compromise with those who are not going to compromise, are solved much faster by military means.

    It is hard to imagine that Stalin at the negotiating table with Hitler tried to persuade him not to destroy Stalingrad, not to starve Leningrad, not to kill Jews and Slavs with gypsies in concentration camps ...

    And now what? And for 4 architrude and bloody years, the most irreconcilable German Nazis were almost zeroed and therefore Germany is so tame and silk.

    A civil war has been going on in Donbass for 4 years, which is trying to be veiled by "Minsk-2", which does not work. The scale is not the same as not to force the Ukronazi Ukraine to a military peace in the most effective way, and in these 4 years everything would have been decided long ago.

    Purely IMHO.
  22. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2018 15: 44
    +4
    Quote: maykl8
    And ... and .... and ?!
    Even if the floor of NATO drives them it will not be compared. And Russia is enough for defense.

    -------------------------
    You are not ready to fight for your retirement age, but you are already ready to defend yourself from NATO.
  23. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 55
    +1
    This is an association of people, a large percentage of whom hate with fierce hatred everything that is at least somehow connected with Russia, and against the backdrop of hatred of their own authorities, driving them into the maw of the civil war called Kiev “Russian hybrid”.


    One million scum keep in fear 39 million indifferent.

    There can be no "Patriotic War of Ukraine against Russia". Press down - the Ukronazis will hide in their caches, the rest will drop their weapons, surrender or run to their homes.

    All.
    1. Metallurg_2
      Metallurg_2 14 September 2018 09: 58
      0
      the rest will drop their weapons, surrender or scatter around their homes

      And here the main thing is not to repeat the mistake of Comrade Stalin, who declared amnesty to Bandera. All - beyond the Arctic Circle and work on logging to death.
  24. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 13 September 2018 15: 56
    -4
    "The war in Ukraine will end when Ukrainian mothers love their children more than they hate Russians."

    (C) V.V. Putin
  25. Maverick1812
    Maverick1812 13 September 2018 16: 00
    +3
    To the delight of the Zionists on both sides of the conflict and the rabid Natsik-zapadents, the two fraternal peoples will tear each other's throats ... The war, after the slave trade, is the favorite business of the Jews! Those who glorify the great Manita would advise them to be puzzled by the question: why do not we recognize the Republic? Sanctions grabbed, nowhere else! What are we afraid of ?! Already there seems to be nothing more ... It means profitable, but the benefit is a meteoric thing!
  26. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 13 September 2018 16: 01
    +3
    Stubbornly impose on us the thought -Ukraine, some enemies !!! Wake up these are the same Slavs as we are. Our gangsters from the authorities are dividing the spheres of influence with the Ukrainian, but comrades from the regional committee, they support this by all methods. Natsik. Is a shushera, the trouble is that the puppets and thieves in law are in power. Purely Russia of the 90s of the beginning of 2000 For the rest, you want to break the Slav, think ten times for the answer can be fatal.
    1. AID.S
      AID.S 13 September 2018 17: 31
      +1
      Quote: tolmachiev51
      Wake up are the same Slavs as we are

      Woke up. What next? Repent? Or to the Kremlin with a pitchfork? Here on the censor you will be popularly explained what kind of brothers we are.
  27. NordUral
    NordUral 13 September 2018 16: 01
    +1
    The first real assessment of all these years. Thanks! And then zadalbali smokers around and mocking Ukrainians. And there, after all, they were mainly Russians, who had long been driven into their heads that they were Ukrainians. Just right to cry from this.
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 13 September 2018 17: 19
      -2
      A real assessment of what? Comments on the forum? In the Moscow Region, do you think everyone is so stupid that they forgot the terms of intelligence of the analyst and stupidly discuss the real strength of the Ukrainian army in the military?
      1. Henderson
        Henderson 15 September 2018 11: 21
        0
        When the Ministry of Defense even slips cartoons from computer games under the guise of real filming even to the president, this raises doubts about their level of intelligence
  28. lopvlad
    lopvlad 13 September 2018 16: 09
    -1
    Underestimate the Ukrainian army


    the fact that the forum objectively considers the problems of the Ukrainian army which was arming and equipping the West with Soviet weapons pulled from the entire Warsaw Pact does not mean that the Ukrainian army is underestimated.
    But you should not overestimate it. The Ukrainian army is rearming exclusively thanks to Russia, not a single state would have allowed the hostile country to rearm and develop the military industry at hand. But this allows Russia to capture its citizens as well.
    As for the Russian army itself, I’ll tell you a secret that in 2014, our army from the Ukrainian only differed only in a large number of semi-working Soviet junk in storage depots and a larger number of personnel.
    Yes, the Ukrainian army since 2014 has become really several times stronger, but during this time the Russian army also rose from nonexistence and became many tens of times stronger.
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 13 September 2018 17: 17
      -1
      Do not write nonsense! It just freaks out. The difference between our army and theirs was in everything from military experience to training. Yes, and equipment and weapons were replaced quickly. The comparison is not even provocative, it is frankly ridiculous
  29. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 13 September 2018 16: 10
    0
    Oranges will not be born on the aspen. It doesn’t matter what they are armed with or who trains them. Do not feed the horse ...
  30. Mauricio
    Mauricio 13 September 2018 16: 36
    0
    Ukrainian army consolidates on frankly Russophobic propaganda

    Yes, as it were, and propaganda is not necessary, just read this forum and everyone will already run to enlist in the Ukrainian army who did not even think. negative
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 13 September 2018 17: 13
      -1
      Have you read Ukrainian?) According to your logic, after they have been read, do you need to create a militia and stupidly trample everything there? There, as it were, the glow is many times stronger.
  31. midshipman
    midshipman 13 September 2018 16: 53
    +5
    And what forms of struggle will the followers of the drunkard now offer, assuring the Russian people that Ukrainians are brothers. Captured or not?
    How things have changed in 15 years. I never thought when I created and developed Ukrainian research institutes, design bureaus and enterprises from 1978 to 1989. And there were 6 of them in 19 GU of the USSR Ministry of Radio Industry, where 90 thousand normal specialists and people worked.
    What should the Russian people say now to the drunk?
  32. Varaga
    Varaga 13 September 2018 17: 04
    +4
    "... we managed to create an armed conglomerate openly hostile towards Russia. It is an association of people, a large percentage of whom hate with fierce hatred everything that is somehow connected with Russia ..."
    Accidentally ran into a video in the internet. There, a man takes a camera phone of his daughter, four or five years old, who is waving a kitchen knife.
    The father asks: "Daughter, why did you take the knife?"
    The daughter replies: "Cut Rusnya!"
    So, who would not say anything that it is "sucked from the finger", but it's true. And there are many of them.
    PS Grew up in Ukraine (Dnepropetrovsk region). He repeatedly visited with his father in the west of Ukraine, with relatives. After the last time, he refused to go there with him again. The reason is described above.
    I will make a reservation right away - I am a Ukrainian, like my father, grandfather, great-grandfather ... But even then (and always) the attitude of TAM towards us was just like that. They do not consider us Ukrainians. History has already proven this.
  33. Igoresha
    Igoresha 13 September 2018 17: 05
    0
    it is difficult to agree with the title, the LPNR servicemen who are hardly standing on the line of contact allow themselves to relax like commentators to articles like "In Ukraine, the cow died gygygs, this is impossible with us"
  34. dgonni
    dgonni 13 September 2018 17: 08
    -6
    The message is true but not correctly stated! The first one! (over the past four years, including not without the help of NATO instructors and special services, it has been possible to create an armed conglomerate openly hostile to Russia), Necha to blame the mirror! Vacationers and lost in the military units of the RF Armed Forces, as if enlightened the minds! The second! (Volunteer corps supply radical formations with literally everything: from toilet paper to the optical sights of the latest modifications. Compassionate Russophobes from outside the Russian Federation “throw up rebellion” toss funds.
    ) Volunteers at the moment do not solve cardinal problems. This is not 2014. Well, on the third! Armament is available and trained personnel as well. In this regard, the author is right.
  35. Bull Terrier
    Bull Terrier 13 September 2018 17: 10
    -1
    No one underestimates them. Whoever needs it, they monitor everything and analyze everything to the fullest. Focus on amusing comments on sites, well, somehow childish or something ...
  36. 1976AG
    1976AG 13 September 2018 17: 14
    -1
    While we are observing one in one Georgian scenario. The denouement campaign will be the same
  37. Forestol
    Forestol 13 September 2018 17: 18
    +4
    As always, there are a bunch of couch military specialists who have not served a day in the Army or Navy. And there is an old saying, for one beaten two unbeaten give. Against the backdrop of prostitutional behavior on the part of the leaders of the DNRLR and Russia, when NONE of them can clearly articulate the GOAL in this conflict, there can be no victory in principle. The last, who had a clear position, to conquer the WHOLE Donbass, this is Zakharchenko, and he is killed. New Russia as a subject has completely disappeared from the agenda. All national heroes were disposed of, to the joy of the FSB. Slowly, the Donbass is turning into a Kosovo version of pumping huge amounts of money on the prohibited. I will not be a prophet, the very next year the people of Donbass will get tired of this prostitution at the top, and will be immeasurably glad to end this mess, even at the cost of cleansing them from patriots. A normal person cannot want to live under shelling for YEARS. Ukraine has not collapsed over the years, modernized the army, created an anti-Russian front. But here we have our rats, dragging the budget for their offshore, excitedly telling about the happiness of pensions after 65, in no way motivate for new exploits. Therefore, as it’s not a pity, to a pain in my soul, a new Perestroika begins, with the surrender of everyone and everything ... If only, the Russian troops, after coordinating the arms of service, will not go on vacation to the Donbass by the end of September ....
  38. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 13 September 2018 17: 28
    -1
    Take the example of the Turks ..... protect their Turkomaniacs in Idlib ... they wanted to bring in troops, they wanted to withdraw. The bases have been built .... Without this, Ukraine will always try some illusions of its military victory, and people in the DPR and LPR will wonder whether they handed over them or not. And the sword should always "hang" on ukrovoyskami - was there a shelling or not, was there a chemical attack or not.
  39. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 13 September 2018 18: 03
    -1
    It's clear ... Everything is lost ... I'll go wash my underpants to throw out the white flag in front of the great and invincible army of dill. Here is a straight and go
  40. Nester
    Nester 13 September 2018 18: 04
    -2
    Boys reminded a shot from a cool movie

  41. Xenofont
    Xenofont 13 September 2018 18: 10
    +1
    Another propaganda throwing of an anonymous author.
  42. Bolo
    Bolo 13 September 2018 18: 15
    0
    The article is very correct, but I want to note in this regard that every piece of meat from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, dobrobats, volunteers and other organizations, the police, the Security Service of Ukraine, which went through the State Institute of Russophobia, should be on a pencil and, accordingly, blocked when entering Russia .
  43. K-50
    K-50 13 September 2018 19: 11
    0
    You can be super-armed, hate the enemy with all your soul, but the military spirit has not yet been able to replace anything. does the Ukrainian army have it? Not the Natsiks and Pravoseks, but ordinary warriors? Will they be able to "throw themselves at the embrasure"?
    Yes, and Natsik PS with how resistant to shock?
    Questions, questions. Only war will show the answers.
  44. 2329 Carpenter
    2329 Carpenter 13 September 2018 19: 18
    0
    It’s impossible to discount from our hat-throwing accounts the fact that quite a few people in the Armed Forces go to the military
    ranks for the idea, or for their national ideals. There is no doubt that in Ukraine there is both the first and the second. Yes, and it was at all times, starting from the times, probably, of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and to this day.
    It is these idealists who represent, as in all armed formations of the world, the most solid, dangerous and stubborn element.
  45. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 13 September 2018 20: 18
    0
    I was not too lazy to read the comments, dear, as in school, but raise your hand who served in the army, and even more interestingly, who is a military university, graduated from the school and served as an officer?
  46. Zhurba
    Zhurba 13 September 2018 20: 31
    -5
    Chush some kind.
    Hto then believes that UA is fighting with miners who have been hauling Grads from mines for 4 years?
    Do you respect saba? -no!
    Well, the flag is in your mouth.
  47. Ros 56
    Ros 56 13 September 2018 20: 32
    0
    Stop whining, if men, yesterday's miners, drivers, locksmiths, and electricians inserted wicks in boilers to various cyborgs, then what they are worse today when they are organized in military buildings, they also undergo training and training. Also cabbage soup slurp. Yes, and we, in the end, are Russians. Motorola could also sit at home in Russia and look at the drawer.
    1. Zhurba
      Zhurba 13 September 2018 20: 42
      -3
      what miners ?!
      After Debaltseve, a battle broke out in the city between the "miners" and the federals. - for transport for the removal of corpses.
      The feds won.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 13 September 2018 20: 45
        0
        I saw it myself or brought a magpie on its tail, and it’s far away to see anything with such a flag.
        1. Zhurba
          Zhurba 13 September 2018 20: 48
          -2
          This is not a secret.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 13 September 2018 20: 49
            0
            Good argument, the old woman May also uses it.
            1. Zhurba
              Zhurba 13 September 2018 20: 51
              -1
              What did you want?
              1. Ros 56
                Ros 56 13 September 2018 20: 53
                0
                Hide, henchman ovine.
                1. Zhurba
                  Zhurba 13 September 2018 20: 55
                  -1
                  If you do not like it, then I'm only glad.
                  1. Ros 56
                    Ros 56 13 September 2018 20: 58
                    0
                    Sooner rejoice, not yet evening, but you will find out about it later, when it will be too late. Everything has its time. Chill out Vasya.
      2. Forestol
        Forestol 13 September 2018 20: 59
        -1
        in, with a star-striped flag in the avatar teaches Russians and Ukrainians to live. But these are American cookies that lie at the heart of the Maidan horses. If they knew that the West would not intervene, no one would ride
        1. Zhurba
          Zhurba 13 September 2018 21: 04
          -2
          impossible.
          It is impossible to teach the lives of those who burn educational institutions with children.
  48. gurzuf
    gurzuf 13 September 2018 22: 00
    0
    So I want to ask the author of the article, if we stop laughing at everything, that Ukrainian Russophobes will disappear? No, they will not disappear. They will not disappear even when Russia feeds Ukraine for free. On the contrary, their number will increase.
  49. Antares
    Antares 13 September 2018 22: 07
    -1
    The Russian media (and society too) have an opinion that everything that is against the policy of the Kremlin (not even the Russian Federation or Russia, namely the Kremlin) is all Russophobia. You defend the integrity of your country from Kremlin policy - a malicious Russophobe. In the ranks of the army of a recognized state, take the oath, just Russophobe! And if you also decided to restore this very territorial integrity, then you are definitely an enemy of Russia / Russophobe, you eat Russian children at night and are definitely subject to destruction laughing
    in general, it’s enough to just be for Ukraine, you’re already a Russophobe, you’re a Khan from Bandera.
    And the society of Ukraine is exactly the same as in the Russian Federation - a careless life in confidence in papers from western and eastern partners about the inviolability of borders is broken, and that’s all. A friend became an enemy, an enemy became an ally. Yes, the world has changed. And they prescribed this war with blood. And the Russian media say that this is all against the Russian Federation. Well, if the Russian Federation climbs the winds then yes, it turns out against the Russian Federation. I am sure that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not go to Crimea because everything is going according to plan. And the price of Crimea for the Russian Federation will increase and no one will return it to Ukraine for this reason. And ORDILO is also needed as a scarecrow for partners. Therefore, the army is strengthening in order not to repeat the mistakes of 2014. When you go take what you want under the guise of green men and winds. Ukrainians are good at defending themselves. They are stubborn and cunning by nature. And nobody knows Russians better from other nations than Ukrainians and Belarusians.
    The society of Ukraine can and is pumped up with the stamp "Russian aggressor country", but it does not call for a campaign against Moscow, only the territorial integrity of our borders. It is a completely digestible goal, easily understandable and tangible. Understandable even if the Russians were in our situation, they would act in the same way.
    And hats ... Russian society also needs to be pumped up ... The fact that Ukraine is bad, because there are some kind of fascists, Bandera soldiers, no army, and so on. This is even to our advantage. It is bad that we have the same sick society as in the Russian Federation with corruption and the attitude of the government. Two fragments with the same problems spend resources on the division of territories.
    1. gurzuf
      gurzuf 14 September 2018 11: 47
      0
      Do you really think that the "green" men tore away my Crimea from your Ukraine? What about DNR and DNR? After all, these little people are not there. And about "not calling for a march on Moscow", too, do not dissemble. I hear these calls in Crimea, it is strange that you are "tight" in both ears.
      1. Antares
        Antares 14 September 2018 22: 04
        +1
        Quote: gurzuf
        Do you really think that the "green" men tore away my Crimea from your Ukraine?

        Sorry, but if the special forces of another country enter the Ukrainian (at that time) state agency, this is apparently normal. OK.
        I can take it whatever. Events are described in this way even on the Russian Wiki.
        However, everything is according to Frederick 2. There is no point in arguing, after all, everything happened according to his expression. All disputes are only from an excess of time and energy.
        Quote: gurzuf
        What about the DNI and DNR? There are not these little men there.

        Shooters? Or not enough? Or else the "northerners" and the military, financial flows and direct control?
        However, officially, people, "decisive military questions".
        But why the argument? Everyone has a choice.
        Quote: gurzuf
        And about "not calling for a march on Moscow", too, do not dissemble. I hear these calls in Crimea, it is strange that you are "tight" in both ears.

        Zhirinovsky called for dropping a bomb on Kiev? How should I perceive it? Or be tight-hearted. I perfectly understand that there are roles of court jesters and protest cisterns ... We have a lot of them too. Who mriyat about Moscow. But it doesn't matter. Officially-restoration ter. integrity. Ukrainians will not go further (though now they will not go anywhere, because their role is to contain)
        That is, the Kremlin, the Russian Federation or Russia have a different policy? Enchanting. This is pure anti-Russian propaganda. To tell the Russians that the Kremlin is bad, it doesn’t do it all, but it’s not the Russian Federation or Russia, they forgot to add Raska.

        Different. For Kremlin policy is a concentrated interest of corporations and it is fundamentally different from nat. oriented Russian. As soon as the domestic policy of prosperity is concentrated, I will only be glad. It’s shameful to call their country (as those who call the Sovkom -SSSR).
        The policy of the Kremlin-to prevent the destruction of those who still survived in the Donbass? No, this is not Russophobe on this basis, but just a cannibal, fascist, and what else can I bring ..

        I will smile. If it were really a goal, no one would have died. Interestingly, internally displaced persons fall under this "protection"?
        yes, then I’m apparently also a cannibal ... laughing
        Those who were just for Ukraine you killed. The same Olesya Buzin.

        sure. I have never been to Kiev, but once "we" - what can we argue. And the House of Trade Unions, fortunately, it is 5 minutes away, too, did I burn down the church, or was it all like that in the 16th century before me?
        Turning to me, as to the current politician of Ukraine or "Bandera" you are, to put it mildly, mistaken. I did not even vote for Poroshenko and is very far from the ideas of the Maidan, after which we live worse and worse.
        Well, if so, but it seems to me that you are also a lie. Carefree life? Tell me at least one area where there was a careless life

        until 2013, we didn’t even need an army (which was why it wasn’t by 2014). We rested on BM and Russian-Ukrainian treaties and others with Western partners. Even the Tuzla conflict didn’t really teach anything.
        Nothing foreshadowed such a war with a proxy with Russian support.
    2. Red_Baron
      Red_Baron 14 September 2018 20: 49
      0
      The Ukrainian media and, accordingly, many members of society have a strange opinion of knowing the opinion of Russians. This is some kind of special art. I do not know where this is taught, but it is becoming more and more visible. A friend of mine from Ukraine wrote to "Onolitegu" about the liberality of Russia, where he walked on Russian television, which he never watched and even stupidly did not glance at the channel program before writing. And the opinion was based on the words of the best friend. And this is not the saddest case. People, even the most adequate, cannot constantly resist the pressure on their brains. Or they are initially critical and then the pressure is many times weaker, only at the background level, which suggests some moments. Or over time, when there is similar information around everywhere, people begin to gradually accept it, albeit a little, but more and more.
      And this very nonsense begins. When it is clearly and clearly seen that they sang in the ears.
      Quote: Antares
      it is believed that everything that is against the policy of the Kremlin (not even the Russian Federation or Russia, namely the Kremlin) is all Russophobia.

      That is, the Kremlin, the Russian Federation or Russia have a different policy? Enchanting. This is pure anti-Russian propaganda. To tell the Russians that the Kremlin is bad, it doesn’t do it all, but it’s not the Russian Federation or Russia, they forgot to add Raska. Moreover, this emphasizes the fact that you simply repeat the words of smart uncles who poured them into your ears. There is no collective Kremlin. This is only in general - the apparatus. And every action, opinion, law, work has personal developers, authors, and so on. But you need to remember, figure it out, evaluate it, time, strength and all that. It’s much easier to label everything - they’re all Kremlin ones there. And yes, the Kremlin is Russia. We have many whiners and complainers, in whom everything is gone and whose moaning is like a balm for your soul. But most of the society supports and shares the policy of its leadership. Not necessarily in everything, we can blame for it, praise for that and so on. But this is again beyond your comprehension; the mean people didn’t tell you this in your ears. We are all zombies here without our opinion.
      And yes, if you speak out against those whom the Russians and Russia have chosen, then you speak out against them. You spit on their opinion, you show them as a dumb herd, you do not look at us as people and in the universal sense and as full citizens of your country. Yes, you are a Russophobe. Any doubts?

      Quote: Antares
      You defend the integrity of your country from Kremlin policy - a malicious Russophobe.

      The policy of the Kremlin-not to let destroy those who still survived in the Donbass? There is no Russophobe on this basis, but just a cannibal, fascist, and what else can I bring ...
      Quote: Antares
      In the ranks of the army of a recognized state, take the oath, just Russophobe!

      you kill people of Ukraine, Russia and those who are citizens of unrecognized states, but also people, no you are not Russophobe, you are a killer, a worthless person, if at all a person, a cannibal who is not worthy to live on earth. In the same way, these people and us were treated by those who came to head the united Europe. You then supported them, helping to destroy people now. Conducted punitive operations. It was you, minions, who were convicted, but, unfortunately, they did not finish it off and the infection bloomed again.
      Quote: Antares
      in general, it’s enough to just be for Ukraine, you’re already a Russophobe, you’re a Khan from Bandera.

      Again the substitution of concepts. To kill people in the Donbas, treats them and the Russians as non-humans, to share a policy that is not in vain called Bandera, this does not mean to be simply for Ukraine. Those who were just for Ukraine you killed. The same Olesya Buzin. But he is known, and how many unknown people died. On May 2, many of us grieve over what happened. Why do not you consider the opinion and people of people who are simply for Ukraine, but not for Ukraine, Poroshenko, Avakov, Turchinov and Yatsenyuk?
      About how - I just shared the Kremlin and the Russian Federation, but for some reason I didn’t look in the opposite direction. Well, it’s logical that propaganda doesn’t speak about this, and that means there is no such thing.
    3. Red_Baron
      Red_Baron 14 September 2018 21: 24
      0
      Quote: Antares
      And the society of Ukraine is exactly the same as in the Russian Federation - a careless life in confidence in papers from western and eastern partners about the inviolability of borders is broken, and that’s all.

      That is, before that, everyone lived with various documents, international treaties, conventions and so on? As I understand it, what do you want to say - who do not take in Ukraine is it entirely international lawyers and political scientists? Well, if so, but it seems to me that you are also a lie. Carefree life? Tell me at least one area where there was a careless life. We are not, we all have friends, relatives in Ukraine. From the same Crimea, people were surprised when they began to pay them with Russian money and not miserable crumbs, but at least something minimal for life, which turned out to be several times more than before. And as bloggers and other caring citizens went about for several years and gloated how bad it would be in Crimea now. What problems does Russia have, and so on. And these people looked at what was in the rest of Ukraine this winter and were horrified that they could be there. And on how bullying in the communal apartment went on. Carefree life. If you are full and have eaten a belly, it does not mean that everything is so with you.
      Quote: Antares
      A friend became an enemy, an enemy became an ally.

      So you want to say that Ukraine quickly overstepped its former enemies? That is, stories about the henchmen of enemies, Bandera and others, is this true? But you just made fun of the labels, and now in plain text proves that this is true.
      Quote: Antares
      And the Russian media say that this is all against the Russian Federation.

      Here again - I didn’t read it, but I know for sure. I say some kind of talent has erupted.
      Quote: Antares
      Well, if the Russian Federation climbs the winds, then yes, it turns out against the Russian Federation.

      Wait, wait, you once again burn. For several years, your officials, management, the media and other things told us that it was Russia that attacked, its troops and tank divisions are on the territory of an independent state. Now haven’t attacked yet? I don’t understand who is lying, you or your leadership, officials, media. You see, there are still more of them and they are somehow more authoritative, so no offense. I still believe that the Russian troops have already occupied everything that can be.
      Quote: Antares
      Therefore, the army is strengthening so as not to repeat the mistakes of 2014.

      Errors 2014? That is, when they wanted the Donbass without people. but it didn’t work out, now there is hope to fix it all? I admit, I did not expect another.
      Quote: Antares
      The society of Ukraine can and is pumped up with the stamp "Russian aggressor country", but it does not call for a campaign against Moscow, only the territorial integrity of our borders. It is a completely digestible goal, easily understandable and tangible. Understandable even if the Russians were in our situation, they would act in the same way.

      Leave it all to the children, we don’t need to fill it. I do not believe that you yourself are so child. There is no concept of the territorial integrity of our borders separately from everything. Look at the same Syria. States are not in a vacuum. All of them are ALWAYS in a geopolitical game. You are trying to tell us now a tearful story in which there is no truth, there are monstrous simplifications and illusions. I understand that you yourself do not believe in it, but just write to the public. Ukraine, in fact, like Belarus, as well as quite a few, former republics, having become independent states, essentially abandoned international relations. Putting all this on Russia. Because Russia is big, it is the heir to the USSR, it must somehow live in this world, so let it try for us at the same time. Ukraine, by and large, did not participate in any actions, either politically or militarily. He destroyed his army, sold it, destroyed it, leaving comfortable remnants. Similarly, others. Everyone understood that there was no sense steaming. In any case, Russia will help, because these are its interests. And be it some kind of conflict or confrontation, Russia will in any case intervene and will observe the interests of its neighbors as well as its own! So you can not waste resources on this, let fools spend it. You can steal them more, you can slightly raise the standard of living, you can send them somewhere else. Stop stop, Baron, what are you talking about. This money can be directed to the development of the country, production, and so on ... Yes, it is possible, but for some reason it was not directed. Ukraine turned out to be far from Belarus. Where did the stubbornness and cunning of the Ukrainians turn out to be, when, just for the sake of gaining specific people, gas prices were raised and conflicts started? Okay, that too. But Ukraine went further. I can call it nothing more than arrogance. There were wars in the gas sector, in transit, even the very organization of this transit, games with the Black Sea fleet, and so on. Well it would seem - and so Lafa - save a lot of money on everything. The lack of need for the army, Russian markets, all possible support, transit income, and more. But this is not enough. It turned out that you can take money on the other hand. Russia is already used to it, it will not go anywhere, it will still pay, protect, support and uphold interests in international politics. This means that you can behave somewhat inappropriately, pump up anti-Russian sentiments and get money for it, you can get closer to NATO and promise a base for them in your own right, in the zone of Russia's interests, in its underbelly. And what’s most interesting - and it rolled. While the game didn’t go on a big one and they began to rule Ukraine, they did not pay money but directly. And here it was not just impossible to endure, but criminally. And no one endured. Steps have been taken to ensure the security of our territories, our people, our interests. One can argue how sufficient the steps were. BUT THERE IS THE QUESTION was not enough, but that would not harm Ukraine too much. Because the leadership is temporary workers, and people are people.
  50. flicker
    flicker 13 September 2018 22: 23
    0
    Yeah, let them arm. I won’t be surprised if the Ukrainian Armed Forces (from the territory of Ukraine) launch a missile attack on NATO bases in Poland and Romania ... with Iskanders stolen from Russia ...