Military Review

Goodbye sea depths?

218
Continuing to talk about our future fleet, from the very beginning it is worth noting the main emerging point: none of the high-ranking officials can even say today approximately what naval construction will look like in general.


And whether it will be at all.



Yes, you can swing as much as you like on showcases of the “ARMY ...” type with models and models of ships. Modelki is good. But from the plastic model to the ship in the metal sometimes passes (and we always have) a lot of time.

However, today it is simply impossible to determine where the main trends of the state armaments program are directed. Everything is hidden in such a fog that it is worth guessing on sea kale.

Divination, of course, is so, for the sake of wit. In fact, there are facts, and you can push off from them. The main thing is to do it calmly and without screams.

The main conclusion that was made in one of the previous materials is simple. The fleet of Russia in the coming 10-12 years will greatly reduce the number of combat-ready surface ships of the sea and ocean zone.

Pros even more than required. The main one - after the 2014 events of the year, we actually lost our hands and places, which could build large-capacity ships and repair them.

Crimea is good, but Nikolaev is very much, if not all. The gap with Ukraine, political and economic, destroyed and (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesel engines and hulls.

Actually, you can not continue further, because there is no ship without a hull and an engine.

In fact, we have “shifted to the right” endlessly the construction time of the frigates of the 11356 and 22350 projects and the problems with repairing a number of ships of Soviet construction. And if you can somehow get out of the repair at the expense of other shipyards (although it’s still a pleasure to drive the “Moscow” through half the world), then we have a complete nightmare with ship diesel engines.



There is a tendency (rather logical) to build what can be built. That is, the "mosquito" coastal fleet instead of the ocean.

Pretty logical. Suppose they are not on 100% themselves, but with the help of China, but we can build 22160 project corvettes and small rocket ships of 21631 and 22800 projects. While we can.



At the same time (and this pleases), the construction of the 20380 project ships, their more expensive and complex version - the 20385 project, as well as the increased size and received a number of other major changes of the 20386 project continues.



5 corvettes project 20380 and the same in construction - this is not bad. Plus two ships of the project 20385. But if you look at the forecasts, then the corvettes of the 2038x family to the 2028, should be at least 18 units in the composition of the Russian Navy. That looks a bit shakozakidatelski, because the problem with the engines has not yet been resolved.

The same applies to the 21160 project ships series. The head ("Vasily Bykov") is being tested, another 5 in varying degrees of construction. And the series can be extended to 12 ships.



Following the corvettes seem to be well-proven small rocket ships of the project 31631 ("Buyan"). Criticism is rather low, perhaps, seaworthiness, but these IRCs are not for the Arctic and Pacific Oceans. And for service in the Baltic, Caspian or Black Sea - completely.

And to 6, the existing IRAs are still building 6. Plus you should not forget about the “work on the mistakes”, that is, “Karakurt”, he is the 22800 project. The project has a greater seaworthiness in comparison with the "Buyani", which is undoubtedly a plus in the situation.



In general, if we talk about ships with a displacement of up to 3000 tons, here everything looks more or less nothing. The only thing that causes confusion is still a large number of missile boats (1241 Ave.), small rocket ships (1234 Ave.) and small anti-submarine ships (1124 Ave. and 1331 Ave.) of Soviet construction. In general, these ships among this weight class has 62 units, which is about 90% of the total number of small ships.

Whether our shipbuilding industry will be able to build corvettes, IRAs and other ships at a pace to compensate for the natural loss of ships due to obsolescence - that is the question.

But again, in the coastal zone, which can be controlled by the "mosquito" fleet, everything looks tolerable.

But what cannot be said about the renewal of the grouping of surface ships of the distant sea and ocean zone is impossible. The situation is critical in all classes of ships that could perform certain tasks in the far ocean zone.

Missile cruisers. Here is a nuance. Very expensive, but there is. If you spend time, resources and money, the number of cruisers will increase to 5. This, as you already understood, is both the 1144 and 1164 project. But this ships of the end of the last century, anyway. Russia cannot build something like this today.





Destroyers and BOD. Here, too, is a mortal longing. Currently, the fleet has 10 ships in varying degrees of combat readiness. If subjected to capital modernization anti-submarine ships of the project 1155 (those that still can), then for some time, you can extend the existence. But after 10 years, according to forecasts, we will have no more than 3-4 ships of this class.



The program for the construction of new destroyers and frigates is constantly being adjusted and postponed (in terms of destroyers) and freezes (in terms of frigates).

To be honest with ourselves, the inability to build in the proper quantity and quality of ships of the far sea zone automatically removes any tasks related to this zone from the defense doctrine.

If the fleet is not able to perform tasks far from its shores, it means that these tasks should not even be formulated. The coastal zone is our everything. In general, hello, Ukraine, however, is not in such a disgraceful form.

And do not discount this most natural loss of ships. I gave the 5 figure in the cruisers calculations, but you know, it is very conditional and optimistic.

Admiral Lazarev is teetering on the brink of life and death from 1999, almost 20 years. And I don’t dare say how much money, resources and time will be needed to reanimate it. Accordingly, in the pessim of cruisers we have 4. This is if they bring to mind the "Nakhimov".

Meanwhile, another nuance. A cruiser, a destroyer, a BOD, a frigate, in contrast to a small rocket ship or boat, is under construction for a very long time. And the ships that we inherited from the USSR, I repeat, are by no means an infinite resource.

And, let's face it, a small number of these ships, which survived to the present time, may not live to see the time when they are replaced by new destroyers, the construction of which is constantly being postponed.

It may even turn out that by the year of 2028, when the state armaments program expires, the number of DMZ ships can be reduced to 15-17 units. If we recall that our ships are actually divided between four fleets without the possibility of collecting in one shock fist, then you can forget about the possibility of the Navy to react quickly to changes in the world situation in the form of formation of efficient connections of ships as to solve problems in remote areas, and to protect your own coast.

No, of course, if the Chinese navy helps us ...

But in general, the situation is very sad. And the way out of it seems to be one: to sign on their own powerlessness and to bet not on what I would like to have (all these model-model dreams in the furnace), but on what can really be built.

That is, the coastal fleet of the ISCs, MRAK, corvettes and other trifles, armed with cool broadsheets of the Caliber type and nuclear submarines for work in the far zone.

Not the most beautiful picture, but you really have what we have.
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218 comments
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  1. 2329 Carpenter
    2329 Carpenter 14 September 2018 05: 47
    -14
    Expensive is a pleasure - to dominate the oceans-seas um ...
    Better as ancestors - slowly and dry ...
    But ours is with us.
    Unlike the great once lords of the seas.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 14 September 2018 06: 22
      +33
      here is your unique ability, Roman, to spoil the mood for the weekend ... but you can't hide from the facts, that's how it is, I won't be surprised if tomorrow we start buying boilers for "aircraft carriers" from China ... but we have the most effective managers. .. I'm glad that I'm old, I don't want to see what will happen to the country.
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 14 September 2018 06: 49
        +23
        Andrey, welcome hi What the ... pessimistic mood? Shipyards under the large-capacity ships are being built. Work is underway on propulsion systems. Maybe we'll see the final product then?
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 14 September 2018 08: 46
          +14
          Quote: Svarog51
          Andrey, welcome hi What the ... pessimistic mood? Shipyards under the large-capacity ships are being built. Work is underway on propulsion systems. Maybe we'll see the final product then?

          you yourself then Seryozha, do you believe? I no longer have. ". hawala like people" I do not want.
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 14 September 2018 09: 08
            +3
            Yurich, as is customary - I hope for the best, but I am preparing for the worst. recourse
            Threat Cons are not mine, I'm the old fashioned way - either a plus or a by. Moreover, they are all the same modulo glued to the rating. I noticed that since the 14th of August they have not reduced anyone in the rank of minuses. But the battered ranks get promoted. request You can see for yourself. yes
            1. Inok10
              Inok10 15 September 2018 20: 41
              +10
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              you yourself then Seryozha, do you believe? I no longer have. ". hawala like people" I do not want.

              ... then you need to see a Specialist ... if you don't "smoke the topic" yourself ... hi
              Quote: Svarog51
              Yurich, as is customary - I hope for the best, but I am preparing for the worst.

              ... the correct position ... but "Rumors of my death are somewhat exaggerated" ... laughing
              Quote Article:
              Crimea is good, but Nikolaev is very much, if not all. The gap with Ukraine, political and economic, destroyed and (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesel engines and hulls.
              ... laughing ... which cases? ... what OF A PROJECT CONSTRUCTING FOR THE Navy OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ?! ... and which diesels and WHAT DIMENSIONS according to GOST! ... I know that there will be no answer, due to a complete lack of knowledge in The author this Opus in Ship Engine ... tongue ... because in GOST there are no "Marine diesels", for a long time there is a concept - "Marine engine":
              - gas
              - gas-diesel
              - diesel
              ... with Journalist as usual bribes are smooth ... tongue ... why should he Wisdom as GOST and Project Battle Ship ... him READERS EMOTIONS IMPORTANT! ... well, here once again I will walk over the "journalist's face", and not on the "passport", Another quote ...
              Quote Article:
              And if you can somehow get out of the repair at the expense of other shipyards (although driving Moscow halfway around the world is still a pleasure), then with marine diesels we have a complete nightmare.
              ... hmm, no words ... I ask the author, once again and with prejudice ?! ... WHAT SHIP ENGINES DOES IT NOT ENOUGH? ... according to GOST?!, what size, number of cylinders, turbocharging, gearboxes, with reversing clutch and so on according to GOST - GOST 10150-88 "Marine, diesel and industrial engines. General specifications (with Amendments N 1, 2, 3)" и FOR WHICH PROJECT OF THE BATTLE SHIP? ... if The author will happen difficulty, but it uniquely happen ... ready to tell where for example such an ENGINE MAY BE ACQUIRED - 12CHNSP 18/20 ... so that Roman Skomorokhov needs to be written Literally ... Always yours, Inok10 ... well, the fleet’s payroll by Ranks could not even touch ... Sophistry is EMPTY ... designed for Youngsters ... hi ... You can delete as before, you can be offended ... I am exactly ... Greetings from PSSZ "Yantar" ...
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 18 September 2018 23: 04
                +4
                Well, we did not have any decent marine diesel engines, well, with the exception of weak diesel engines for the fishing fleet 8DR43-61 of the Bryansk plant. Yes, BOD and destroyers need gas turbine engines. And to all this we have lost two military factories for the construction of surface ships, the Nikolaev 63 Communards and Chernomorka. So there are no factories in Russia.
          2. 1Leningrad
            1Leningrad 14 September 2018 18: 58
            -1
            Why harass if you are not a people, you just need to read an interview with the leaders of shipbuilding enterprises and believe them, or talk with workers at these enterprises. Previously, destroyers were read according to the Russian classification, but now they are frigates, in terms of functionality they are almost equal.
          3. Zubr
            Zubr 15 September 2018 23: 38
            +3
            soldier Good morning, comrades marshals.
            How many times have we experienced such moments in our fatherland? Do you think we can’t stand it? And here I remember a documentary film, our Soviet, with the participation of Evgeny Matveev about the blockade of Leningrad and "Anichkov Bridge" and about the phoenix bird, which is reborn every time from the ashes.
            You and I certainly will not live to see this bright day, so let us wish our children and grandchildren to live until this bright day. Well, as we should, we’ll shake the mezzanines! To the glory of the fatherland! And who besides us is that? We are holding out, not for the first time.
        2. Homeless
          Homeless 14 September 2018 13: 04
          +12
          At these large-capacity shipyards, it’s already the turn to build ships for LNG transportation for 15–20 years, and there is no question of the military fleet!
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 18 September 2018 23: 06
            +1
            Where are these shipyards?
        3. Adimius38
          Adimius38 15 September 2018 08: 26
          +7
          the shipyard is building Rosneft under the tanker will export oil over the hill, more oil was taken out, more billionaires among the elite became.
        4. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 18 September 2018 22: 57
          +1
          And what are these shipyards called ???
      2. KCA
        KCA 14 September 2018 08: 24
        +10
        The general motive is understandable, but China, for some reason, does not consider it a humiliation to buy aircraft engines from us, to develop planes and helicopters, aircraft engines together with us, well, and, following the example of the Americans, is going to buy engines for heavy R / N, derived from the same RD- 170
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 14 September 2018 09: 59
          +16
          Quote: KCA
          China, for some reason, does not consider it a humiliation to buy from us

          because China did not possess technology ... but the Russian Federation (represented by the USSR) possessed !!! these are phantom pains ... by the loss of the ability to build ships of the far sea zone ....
      3. dvina71
        dvina71 14 September 2018 08: 34
        +8
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        here is a unique ability you have a novel

        It has a unique feature of writing articles, which you read to a certain point ... and that's it ... the desire to read further disappears ..
        That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesels and hulls.

        What buildings? what diesels?
        YOU ABOUT UDM? so he is ..
        In the early 2000s. the plant entered a period of crisis. In 2000, a bankruptcy case was opened against Yuzdizelmash OJSC as a result of unfulfilled obligations under a loan agreement with Privatbank.

        Since 2004, the work experience has stopped working, the number of employees amounted to only 1445 people. In 2006, a settlement agreement and a rehabilitation plan designed to resume production were developed and approved by the courts. After that, most of the liquid assets of the company were transferred to creditors of the fourth stage, and the liquid assets were retained by Yuzhdizelmash.

        And Crimea has nothing to do with it ..
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 14 September 2018 12: 58
          +5
          Quote: dvina71
          What buildings?

          that in Nikolaev collected at ChSZ ...
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 14 September 2018 21: 21
            +5
            Quote: PSih2097
            that in Nikolaev collected at ChSZ.

            And how many hulls were there assembled for the Russian Navy?
      4. Varaga
        Varaga 14 September 2018 16: 54
        +3
        Everything will be fine with the country.
        God will not betray - the pig will not eat.
        But God will not betray.
      5. ver_
        ver_ 19 September 2018 06: 34
        0
        ... for our age, buns are not provided - even crematoriums are only in cities with a population of over one million - a ritual business is a very profitable business .. Zemlytsa does not mind this business ..
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 14 September 2018 08: 09
      +6
      But Peter the Great didn’t think so, that's why the Great is called, and you should do stools in the carpentry, and you need to be able to do it too.
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 14 September 2018 10: 03
        +1
        Quote: Ros 56
        Peter the Great did not think so

        and Lomonosov too !!!
        ps
        only you all the hope of Russian science !!!
        so hands to feet and learning ...
        We are waiting for the report on the exaltation of Russian science!
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 2329 Carpenter
            2329 Carpenter 14 September 2018 10: 23
            +3
            Yes, I’m already from the carpentry, with my darling, not a sortie! Stools? .. I do the same! They say (since ancient times winked ) - I can ...
            What Peter the Great thought there - I don’t know, I don’t know where his whole so-called fleet...
            And what a great role this fleet played in incrementing the territory of the Russian Empire is also a question. Because Suppose Siberia (which is ours now) became ours, as you and I know, Dew, without any fleet and Great Peter.
            1. bang
              bang 14 September 2018 17: 58
              0
              Peter's Baltic fleet decayed; there were errors in technology during construction.
              If it had not decayed, then perhaps the Russian Empire would have grown in the west.
              1. toha124
                toha124 15 September 2018 18: 03
                0
                Most often they talk about improper (fast) drying of ship woods. Although, perhaps, Peter didn’t have a choice either - the ships were needed immediately.
            2. nickname7
              nickname7 18 September 2018 10: 14
              0
              where did all his so-called fleet.
              The climate is not the same.
              The tree went through many defrost defrost cycles and became inaccessible. In non-freezing seas, wooden ships of other countries served longer

              And what a great role this fleet played in incrementing the territory
              The allowance here is an increment, the main meaning of the fleet is trade, which can give fabulous, literally endless money. Here's an example France received two-thirds of its budget from trade with the colonies. Peter included the Russian Federation in world trade, where you can earn and buy what you need in the developed West.

    3. Clone
      Clone 17 September 2018 02: 23
      0
      Quote: Carpenter 2329
      Expensive is a pleasure

      For pleasure you have to pay!
  2. Gray brother
    Gray brother 14 September 2018 05: 53
    +8
    After the events of 2014, we lost the enterprises that switched to producing bourgeois for the Armed Forces.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 14 September 2018 06: 23
      +5
      Quote: Gray Brother
      After the events of 2014, we lost the enterprises that switched to producing bourgeois for the Armed Forces.

      however sarcastic it sounds, but the truth is there ...
    2. NIKN
      NIKN 14 September 2018 15: 38
      +4
      Quote: Gray Brother
      After the events of 2014, we lost the enterprises that switched to producing bourgeois for the Armed Forces.

      And the stoves are dual-use. From the chimneys of these stoves, the "hammer" mortar is good.
  3. Dart2027
    Dart2027 14 September 2018 05: 55
    +9
    The break with Ukraine, political and economic, destroyed and (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesels and hulls.

    In fact, not diesel engines, but gas turbines, we have our own diesel engine, although there are some difficulties, but they are. And as for the buildings - why on earth?
  4. Gray brother
    Gray brother 14 September 2018 06: 00
    +7
    The main threat in our country is the ground forces of NATO countries - the fleet cannot occupy our country, so it’s a crime to invest funds in large ships of the far sea zone, without any hope of gaining at least parity. The army and aviation must be pumped - this is now a priority.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 14 September 2018 07: 33
      +10
      Quote: Gray Brother
      the fleet cannot occupy our country
      We have and may still have zones of interest that can be occupied by the enemy fleet.
      Otherwise, we will remain on an "island" called Russia, surrounded by enemies without breaks ...
      So ...
  5. RusKosTen
    RusKosTen 14 September 2018 06: 54
    +19
    Having a combat-ready land army and aviation, as well as a "mosquito" fleet supporting them, is the minimum necessary to preserve Russia as a state and support its sovereignty. And the fleet of the distant sea and ocean zone is a sign of an established great power, capable of projecting force directly at the current moment to the required area of ​​the planet. Nuclear weapons are still strategic. There it is. But it is somewhere out there, in the mines, and no one will just let it go. And conducting exercises of carrier-based aircraft and launching missiles near the British Isles will reduce the desire and haste to run into Russia, respectively, the sanctions may be delayed, and this is a respite for our economy. But on the other hand, building such a fleet when you have holes at a lower level is also a rash desire. Everything has its time. I want everything at once, but the fact is on the face - the Russian Federation in its current state cannot quickly build ocean-going ships.
    1. Black sniper
      Black sniper 14 September 2018 14: 10
      +2
      Totally agree hi, the absence of the state of the AUG speaks of its poverty, and not of some special, strategic, military vector of building the Navy ...
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 14 September 2018 14: 52
        -1
        Quote: Black Sniper
        the absence of an AHG state indicates its poverty,

        This is no less limited tool than the mother is vigorous and directly dependent on the presence of the mother of the opponent.
      2. Oleg Fudin
        Oleg Fudin 15 September 2018 09: 13
        +8
        Alas, not so much poverty as industrial and technological backwardness. In addition to money, enterprises, skilled workers, scientific and engineering personnel, etc. are needed. And to create / restore it takes time, investment and intelligence.
      3. nickname7
        nickname7 18 September 2018 10: 27
        +2
        [quote the absence of the AUG state speaks of its poverty] [/ quote] But there is enough money for yachts, so there is money.
    2. Adimius38
      Adimius38 15 September 2018 08: 44
      +10
      and who brought the country to such a current state ...... corruption and irreplaceable, for 18-20 years the USSR was put on its feet after the war, and here in 18 years only thieves and crooks have spawned. What kind of ships are there in the far sea zone, when billions of money float away from Russia. Russia is not just a piece of land the size of Poland, but a country with a vast territory washed by seas and oceans, therefore, there will always be a need for ships in the far sea zone FOR PROTECTING NATIONAL INTERESTS anywhere in the world, and for the security of the state on distant approaches. The mosquito fleet makes us the level of modern Ukraine and cannot ensure the security of the state; it only performs a partial function of protecting the coastal strip. In the event of a collision with a serious enemy strike group, the mosquito fleet actually has no chance of victory, all the more so if it leaves the cover zone of its ground air defense.We need ships in the far sea zone, we need air defense ships capable of repelling a massive missile strike. But we really cannot build this now, since we need to return the cash flow to the state treasury. Disperse "effective" managers and start training specialists. Time is not working for us, but against us. If we delay, then in ten years we will not be able to build a single first-rank surface ship at all, we will buy from China
      1. lazy
        lazy 16 September 2018 09: 12
        -2
        the communists in the USSR brought about by building a large shipyard where it was possible to assemble cruisers only in Ukraine, as well as a gas turbine production plant, they could at least build one more after the collapse of the USSR (again the top of the CPSU) for the sake of reinforcing the Far East, it turned out that Russia does not have such plants
      2. nickname7
        nickname7 18 September 2018 10: 40
        +1
        There is such Delyagin, he claims that the budget of the Russian Federation is surplus, more money comes in than is spent, and this money is accumulated and weighed on accounts. The fact that there is no money lies, the government. Moreover, with an abundance of money, giant loans are being obtained at banks, for which loans must be paid.

        [quote] The federal budget continues to be choked with money. In July, the surplus amounted to 435,6 billion rubles. - 5,0% of GDP. In the first seven months of 2018, the surplus amounted to 1,4 trillion rubles. - 2,5% of GDP (the budget for 2018 provides a surplus of 0,5% of GDP - 481,7 billion rubles).

        Unused balances of funds in the accounts of the federal budget grew in January-July by more than 2,4 trillion rubles, including in July - by 529,0 billion rubles, - up to 8,6 trillion rubles.

        “The liberal clan serving the global financial monopolies and controlling the socio-economic bloc of the Russian state is accumulating colossal resources, not allowing them to be used for the needs of Russia.
        Подробнее на http://delyagin.ru/articles/183-sobytija/60833-profitsit-bjudzheta-5-vvp-zanachka-vyrosla-do-8-6-trln-rub-dlja-tekh-kto-svergnet-v-v-putina
  6. brom
    brom 14 September 2018 06: 55
    -6
    Everything is lost! We all will die! laughing
    1. sleeve
      sleeve 14 September 2018 07: 41
      +5
      That's for sure .. Everyone. But in due time.
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 14 September 2018 09: 18
        +3

        Maksim, hi I added this for convincing reasons.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 14 September 2018 14: 57
          +3
          Quote: Svarog51
          I added this for convincing reasons.

          From the same source ... For persuasiveness!
          We managed - on a visit to God there are no delays.
          So what are the angels singing in such evil voices?

          ... a little slower, horses ...
          A little slower ... (Pliz!)
          And we will have ships, and my friend Yurich will see them during his lifetime,
          And he will sincerely rejoice at the revival of the Russian Fleet - the beloved brainchild of the first Russian emperor - PETER THE GREAT ...
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 15 September 2018 03: 47
            +1
            Alexander, welcome hi
            And we will have ships, and my friend Yurich will see them during his lifetime,
            And he will sincerely rejoice at the revival of the Russian Fleet - the beloved brainchild of the first Russian emperor - PETER THE GREAT

            Yurich and I are fellow soldiers and I will gladly join in looking at the revival of the Russian Navy, if you do not mind. good drinks
            We managed - on a visit to God there are no delays.
            So what are the angels singing in such evil voices?

            For clarity yes
            soldier
            1. Maki Avellevich
              Maki Avellevich 18 September 2018 10: 16
              +1
              it’s hard to understand how to insert this song into the context of the story.
              Thank you for the musical insert, as Choi sang, about yourself and about people like Vysotsky, Burn a star.
              1. Svarog51
                Svarog51 18 September 2018 10: 39
                +3
                When you click "answer", there are icons above the window, the second from the right (black square) - inserting media content.
                Is this song? hi
                1. Maki Avellevich
                  Maki Avellevich 18 September 2018 11: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: Svarog51
                  Is this song?


                  absolutely right. thank.
                  but about Vysotsky’s horses, I had in mind that my meaning was difficult for me to link with the article on the state of affairs of the Russian fleet. about the edge?
                  could you explain your association?
                  1. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 18 September 2018 13: 29
                    +2
                    Dmitry, well, to be honest, I just voiced it. Boa constrictor KAA (Alexander) offered it. The association is simple, like in a joke: "Take your time, son, we will slowly go down the hill and have the whole herd." In other words, everything has its time. We will build shipyards, develop engines, and build large ships. This cannot be done in an instant, it takes time. Something like this. yes
  7. inkass_98
    inkass_98 14 September 2018 06: 56
    0
    Oh, finally there was a steady duet - Damantsev and Skomorokhov, experts in all areas, petrels of the future are all gone. Moreover, they solo in turn, so that the injection level evenly goes.
    Yes, everything is not rosy with us with large ships and their quantity, but all this beauty of money costs, and not at all small ones. And people do not need krivoruky, docks free, a clear program for the construction of the fleet. And this is the real problem, the number of ships built is only a consequence of the systemic crisis.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 14 September 2018 07: 29
      +14
      The second paragraph of your post only confirms the authors request
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 September 2018 07: 50
      +7
      Quote: inkass_98
      Yes, everything is not rosy with us with large ships and their quantity, but all this beauty of money costs, and not at all small ones. And people do not need krivoruky, docks free, a clear program for the construction of the fleet. And this is the real problem, the number of ships built is only a consequence of the systemic crisis.

      We don’t have money, people of Russian have hook hands growing out of their asses, docks are all busy, no one can compose a program, and in general, we have a systemic crisis. If I misunderstood you, then correct. request
      1. RusKosTen
        RusKosTen 14 September 2018 08: 39
        +5
        The reasons can be divided into 2 categories:
        1. Subjective: "managers" with blockchains and bitcoins in their heads, they are managers. And also the bureaucratic clannishness, created in the 90s and in fact ruling in the regions until now, which have only one thought in their heads - if they are imprisoned, but I will have time to steal. They do not have a goal of long-term and gradual development of their region / industry. At the moment they are only pressed against the nail so that they do not become too impudent.
        2. Objective. Shipyards located in the Russian Federation are occupied. The "star" under construction in Bolshoy Kamen is designed mainly for the construction of civilian tankers and gas carriers. And it will be commissioned in 2024 IMHO. Gas turbine units - their production directly for the fleet remained in Ukraine. Specialists - the old ones retire, the new ones do not have enough practice to transfer experience, tk. stupidly there are no orders for large-scale projects.

        This is purely my thoughts.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 September 2018 09: 08
          +10
          Quote: RusKosTen
          Shipyards geographically located in the Russian Federation are busy

          Interest on 50-70
          1. RusKosTen
            RusKosTen 14 September 2018 09: 55
            +3
            And those that are able to assemble enclosures over 10 000 tons?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 September 2018 12: 55
              +3
              Quote: RusKosTen
              And those that are able to assemble enclosures over 10 000 tons?

              And they too
            2. 1Leningrad
              1Leningrad 14 September 2018 19: 03
              -7
              10000 tons is already closer to the aircraft carrier.
              1. faiver
                faiver 16 September 2018 00: 12
                +4
                10000 tons is closer to the aircraft carrier
                - what other aircraft carrier? the Chinese destroyers come with a greater displacement, the American berks are a bit short of 10tys ..
        2. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 15 September 2018 09: 24
          +3
          Quote: RusKosTen
          Subjective: "managers" with blockchains and bitcoins in their heads

          Quote: RusKosTen
          Specialists - old ones retire, new ones lack practice to transfer experience

          This just no longer refers to "managers, but to young people. Either blockchains with bitcoins and startups in their heads, or AUE and dreams of becoming thieves in law. Nothing else. Therefore, there are simply no" new specialists ".
    3. Spambox
      Spambox 14 September 2018 20: 21
      -1
      Damn it, why do you remember Damantseva in a bitch, now everyone is waiting for the article
  8. Alex_59
    Alex_59 14 September 2018 06: 59
    +5
    That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesels and hulls.
    Well, at the expense of hulls, this is too much, because Ukrainian shipyards for the Russian Federation have not really built anything since 1991. The main loss is GTU "Zorya-mashproekt".
    1. Oleg Fudin
      Oleg Fudin 15 September 2018 09: 19
      +2
      Because they did not order. If ordered, they would have built.
  9. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 14 September 2018 07: 22
    +9
    "... but Nikolaev is, if not all, then quite a lot. The break with Ukraine, political and economic, destroyed (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesel engines and hulls."
    Perhaps I missed something ... And a lot of hulls of ships of the first or second rank have been cast by Nikolaev for the Russian Federation over the past twenty-five years ?!
    And one moment. As far as I know, before the Nikolaev plant builds something, you need to build it, so to speak (sorry for the pun).
    1. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 14 September 2018 07: 39
      +6
      So maybe I didn't build because there were no orders? Ukraine itself has an ocean fleet A) does not need B) there is no money. While Ukraine and I were more or less we had no time for the fleet, because point B. And how the money appeared - they began to integrate with Europe. "Coincidence? I don't think so!"
      PS If my memory serves me, when this mess started there, we gave them a loan of 3 billion greens for Eurobonds, and promised another 15 (sort of) and a bunch of orders, including for Nikolaev. But our sworn brothers were seduced by a carrot. Now the stove is also made by the agrarian superpower. Americans are happy.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 14 September 2018 15: 40
        +10
        Quote: RusKosTen
        Americans are happy.

        You can’t even imagine how happy they are!
        Kandaliza Rice, in my opinion, said that Russia could not again become a superpower without Ukraine. That's why they swelled in kaklov 5 billion dollars. To me personally, it’s a shame to the red snot that, with the silent inaction of EBN and his pro-Shtat liberoids, cowboys, like cattle, took Slavs to the Bandera camp and made enemies out of our nose ... We created problems for us out of the blue. ..
        This is where the root of the problem is! So now it’s too late to bite your elbows about ChSZ, Motor Sich, Yuzhmash and so on. The stakes are much higher! Today, the Ukrobandites have imposed on us the problem of Donbass, which, without deciding which, there is nothing even to stutter about the settlement of the Ukrainian question ... And these are all the resources that could be used in other areas of the military and national defense.
        Something like that, however.
  10. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 08: 41
    -5
    For some reason, I ignored the submarines, that’s where the important tasks are, and the number of submarines must be increased at a faster pace than it is now! And surface ships except maybe minesweepers are not really needed. The coastal marine surface fleet, by the way, also has narrow goals, and what is being built is quite enough, even with the complete cancellation of the entire conscientious legacy. The ocean coastal fleet is not so badly represented by frigates, again taking into account its narrow tasks. And taking into account the planned modernization of the extension of the operating life of part 1155, the picture is generally fine. Three pennants for the ocean turn out to be 7. Regarding the distant fleet, we have long since grinded that it has no tasks. Even Varyag, Ustinov, and A Kuzya will still have an excess until 2030 Petya and Nakhimov will serve this way for another 25 years, these three ships more than cover all possible tasks of the Russian Federation far from their shores, taking into account at least those 7 frigates on different fleets that are now new or are already under construction and can serve for another 30 years .
    1. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 14 September 2018 08: 50
      +7
      I strongly disagree. A small-sorted country that "does not show off" has no tasks for the long-range fleet. A great power dictating its terms to the world always has tasks for the ocean-going fleet.
      Attention question. So who are we?
      PS By chance, are not your colleagues working in the leadership of the United Shipbuilding Corporation?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 14 September 2018 09: 51
        -3
        Quote: RusKosTen
        A great power dictating its conditions to the world always has tasks for the ocean fleet.

        Do we need this? Well, becoming US 2.0, do we need this? Do we need everyone to hate us?
        1. RusKosTen
          RusKosTen 14 September 2018 10: 01
          +6
          I do not see the connection between the status of a great power and all-consuming hatred.
          The fleet can not only drive the barmalei. The very fact of his presence gives you certain privileges. It would seem that, for example, we would have 4 aircraft carriers, of which 2 would constantly be at sea, and they would never fire for their service. Would you think that they were useless all this time? Of course not. In specific situations, they provided you with an indirect advantage over others, giving preference to your economy with the conclusion of certain transactions and companies in your country, and this is state revenue. You know, competition. This logic can be extended to the army - why do we need an army to hate us?
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 06
            -5
            Quote: RusKosTen
            The very fact of his presence gives you certain privileges.

            It is for these privileges that the United States hates. We will not bring democracy to other countries. They will determine their fate. We are able to withstand the NATO fleet in the Mediterranean.
            1. RusKosTen
              RusKosTen 14 September 2018 10: 11
              +7
              Typical fallacy. If we refuse the Big Game, everything will be done there for us and against us, and hello the 90s. If you want a place in the sun, fight for it.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 24
                -2
                Quote: RusKosTen
                If we give up the Big Game,

                But didn’t we say our word in Syria with what we already have? Judging by the sanctions announced to us, we were heard.
            2. RusKosTen
              RusKosTen 14 September 2018 10: 18
              +7
              Now we are able to confront the NATO fleet in the Mediterranean very controversially, and that’s just a name for reliance on Khmeimim. We gathered it from all the fleets somehow. Such a squadron without relying on a sufficient number of ships in the ocean zone or on a coastal base is useless. IMHO
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 27
                -4
                Quote: RusKosTen
                Such a squadron without relying on a sufficient number of ships in the ocean zone or on a coastal base is useless

                As Putin said, if anyone needs to get it, we will get it anyway.

                1. RusKosTen
                  RusKosTen 14 September 2018 10: 37
                  +5
                  “Reach” and “Warn” are two different things. Fleet weapon warning. Having a fleet, it will no longer be necessary to get it, and it will be calmer for everyone.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 43
                    -2
                    Quote: RusKosTen
                    The fleet is a weapon of warning.

                    Lavrov warns, and whoever does not hear him, he is dealing with Shoigu.

                    Having nothing against the fleet, but everyone realized that we were able to help any state in the world defend its sovereignty anywhere in the world.

                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 14 September 2018 18: 56
                      +2
                      Quote: Boris55
                      anywhere in the world.

                      It’s problematic to get to MRC anywhere. 100 ships of the first rank we really do not need, but 15-20 should be.
                      1. IL-18
                        IL-18 15 September 2018 15: 43
                        +3
                        Clouds are gathering over Venisuela. And we can’t do anything there - neither the fleet, nor the bases. For these 15-20, besides bases, supply ships, escorts and much more are needed.
        2. Alex_59
          Alex_59 14 September 2018 10: 14
          +12
          Quote: Boris55
          Do we need everyone to hate us?

          But what did the USSR hate? But he was the USA 2.0, and in some areas 1.0.
          The USSR is not - they began to adore us more?
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 33
            -3
            Quote: Alex_59
            But what did the USSR hate?

            All is not all, but the USSR supported some regimes, and others - drenched it.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 14 September 2018 11: 56
              +1
              Quote: Boris55
              All is not all, but the USSR supported some regimes, and others - drenched it.

              Like the United States, as we are now (only a lower level). We support Abkhazia with South Ossetia - we wet Saakashvilli. We support DNR / LNR - we wet Kiev. And so on.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 14 September 2018 12: 13
                -2
                Quote: Alex_59
                Like the USA, as we are now

                And mind you, we are doing quite well.

                Quote: Alex_59
                only lower level

                So we do not claim to be the next democratizer.

                Quote: Alex_59
                We support DNR / LNR - we wet Kiev.

                Here we support the people with a homunitarite and urge Kiev to think again.
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 14 September 2018 12: 23
                  +10
                  Quote: Boris55
                  And mind you, we are doing quite well.

                  I won't notice. Because even friendly Belarus laughs at our attempts! And in Soviet times, without exaggeration, the whole world would have lined up in orderly rows to recognize the legitimacy of Abkhazia, etc. Moreover, "successfully" means at least doing such things on the territory of some Cambodia or Somalia, but not at home. When our marines landed in Somalia to evacuate their own, no one in the world sounded about an "act of aggression" and an armed invasion. When we entered the Czech Republic, many grumbled, but de facto wiped out. What about today? Georgia and Ukraine, forgive me, until recently was our common home. In our zone of influence, we are arranged such a mess, and we are proudly sorting out something there. Imagine for a second that the US states disintegrated and some California chopped off a piece from Nevada, and we would not admit it. That would be a level! It would be "successful".
                  Quote: Boris55
                  So we do not claim to be the next democratizer.

                  But they do not like us as if we were more democratizing than the United States.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 14 September 2018 12: 33
                    -2
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    But they don’t love us

                    Yes, I do not care about the dislike of cannibals. I do not like them either. laughing

                    Globalization according to Western patterns - "He who is not sold by us is against us" has failed. Russia proposed globalization in Russian: "Guys, let's live together," and most countries agree with this.
                    1. RusKosTen
                      RusKosTen 14 September 2018 13: 00
                      +4
                      Those. In your opinion, the two Ossetians cannot unite, and our supporters are blown up in the DPR and people die every day - is this called successfully? Your criteria for success are strange.

                      It seems that you are only responding in order to answer, at least some heresy, but to answer. With a smart look. In my opinion this is called trolling.
                      1. Boris55
                        Boris55 14 September 2018 13: 21
                        0
                        Quote: RusKosTen
                        two Ossetia cannot unite

                        These are their problems. Ossetia is an independent state, including from us.

                        Quote: RusKosTen
                        and in the DPR our supporters are blown up and people die every day

                        The citizens of Ukraine live there and there is a civil war.

                        After the assassination of Zakharchenko, Pushilin, a protege of Turchinov, came to power. Nothing good will be there. An attempt to drag Russia into the Ukrainian conflict takes on real features ...
        3. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 15 September 2018 09: 31
          0
          Quote: Boris55
          Do we need this? Well, becoming US 2.0, do we need this? Do we need everyone to hate us?


          Alexander II Liberator:
          Russia is not a commercial or agricultural state, but a military one, and its vocation to be a lightning storm


          Alexander II Peacemaker:
          In the whole world we have only two faithful allies - our army and navy. Everyone else, at the earliest opportunity, will gang themselves up against us
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 15 September 2018 13: 09
            -1
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            only two faithful allies - our army and navy.

            First, it is better to write "Us" with a capital letter - "We, Alexander III".
            Secondly, it should be remembered that the son of Alexander III was removed from office by the army (front commanders and the Petrograd garrison) and the (Twice Red Banner Baltic) fleet.
    2. malyvalv
      malyvalv 14 September 2018 14: 14
      -1
      Now in the East 18 landing troops in Chukotka. But they obviously meant Alaska. And for this, the fleet is needed more powerful.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 14 September 2018 14: 41
        -1
        Quote: malyvalv
        And for this, the fleet is needed more powerful.

        That they would stand on top and our infantry with a quick step along the decks of the ships was relocated to the territory of the USA laughing

  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 September 2018 09: 37
      +4
      What prevents to upgrade a couple of three shipyards to the level of Nikolaev or build new ones from scratch?

      No money, but you hold on! wink
      The retirement age will have to be raised to 80 if you build a shipyard on a grand scale.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 03
          +3
          Quote: rudolff
          Mind Russia does not exactly understand

          laughing Russian thousand-year dream ... and sit and eat a fish!
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 14 September 2018 13: 07
        0
        Quote: Avior
        The retirement age will have to be raised to 80 if you build a shipyard on a grand scale.

        and if aircraft carriers are built at the current pace, then I’m afraid that I will have to retire in about 100 years ...
      3. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 15 September 2018 00: 30
        -10
        Quote: Avior
        The retirement age will have to be raised to 80, if you build a shipyard in a big way

        As for current retirees, there is a special question for them.
        Judge for yourself, real war veterans are already over. Even those who just caught the war at an adulthood (because in reality those who were injured at the front or worn out their health by overworking in the rear died earlier). And even the "children of war" are ending - after all, 73 years have passed since the Victory. This means that the overwhelming majority of modern pensioners are children of the post-war period who have lived a well-fed life without major shocks.
        It seems to me that they themselves should feel a moral duty to the previous generation, which made such sacrifices in the name of Victory and prosperity of the country. They can atone for this duty only by making comparable sacrifices - by hunger, cold, deprivation, since they do not shoot around. And this applies to all future generations too.
        Therefore, I consider fair the complete abolition of pensions. If these funds help build up the fleet, pensioners will finally be able to repay their moral debt to their homeland.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 15 September 2018 01: 08
          +2
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Therefore, I consider fair the complete abolition of pensions. If these funds help build up the fleet, pensioners will finally be able to repay their moral debt to their homeland.

          request I didn’t set you a minus, but those who ruined it owed a moral debt to the USSR. And not at all those who fought for him. Do you want to doom all senior citizens to starvation for the glory of the fleet? Bravo, even the apologists of Yeltsin and the Tagged did not think of this. belay I just can't find words to answer that. The fleet is also needed to protect those retirees about whom you "care" so much.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 15 September 2018 09: 18
            -1
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            And not at all those who fought for him

            I just wrote that modern pensioners, and even more so future ones, are those who for the most part did NOT fight and did not find war at all, that is, have not yet suffered for the country deprivations comparable to those suffered by the fighting generation.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 15 September 2018 09: 46
              +6
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              I just wrote that modern pensioners, and even more so future ones, are those who for the most part did NOT fight and did not find war at all, that is, have not yet suffered deprivation for the country,

              I understood what you wrote. You don’t count the Cold War when we, due to the fault of traitors, broke up and lost our population. My uncle got a heart attack after losing his savings and work, he died. Another was killed. Now you want to finish off the rest.
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              comparable to those that the warring generation underwent.

              On a human scale, we may have suffered less losses than in the Second World War, on a state scale — we lost everything. You now have a yellow-black flag sticking out, I have a Russian tricolor. Today's pensioners paid for our studies, treatment and vacations, and we don’t have to wear a mitt for their retirement. As well as not future generations on mine. IMHO.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 14 September 2018 09: 49
      -1
      Quote: rudolff
      What ocean power can we talk about and presence in all the oceans of the world

      What for? We are not going to become the World Gendarme - this is an ungrateful business.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 14 September 2018 16: 09
        -5
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: rudolff
        What ocean power can we talk about and presence in all the oceans of the world

        What for? We are not going to become the World Gendarme - this is an ungrateful business.

        why do we need the whole world, at least we need to deal with Europe and Asia, plus protecting our allies, and from space it will be much easier to do this, of course for good, we need to give the IDEA to the people - and let SPACE be this idea ...
    3. Serg65
      Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 00
      +4
      hi Hi subfloor drinks
      Quote: rudolff
      we all crocodile tears pour

      what Rudolph, buddy, a young navigator lived in Zaozersk at the end of the 80s, coming to the place of his "work" the navigator was proud of his great country, his place of "work" and proudly thought that he would put in a nude pose any foe who decided to disrupt the way of life of this navigator! But in 91, a great country that had a powerful army and an equally powerful fleet, without an attack from outside, suddenly ceased to exist! How? Why? We were preparing for the third world war, but there was no war!
      So now Rudik! Everything is repeated one to one! The age-old Russian question "What is to be done?", In the 19th century, Dostoevsky devoted a whole novel to this. So what should we do with the navigator?
      laughing Sorry for the philosophy .... probably getting old wassat
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 14 September 2018 12: 43
          +4
          Quote: rudolff
          I can answer for the fleet.

          This will be really interesting!
          Quote: rudolff
          But for the whole of Russia ... I used to think I know

          Rudik, I often go on business trips to the Russian expanses, you understand a business trip - this is not a visit to the collective farm market with a survey of bazaar grandmothers. He visited many factories. For 4 years there is something to compare!
          Quote: rudolff
          power derbanit is not the best minority and then rules for the sake of loved ones.

          laughing When he studied in Frunze, did Romanov still rule the city of your cadet youth?
          Rudolph, when the proletarian of the middle factory from Ulyanovsk, can afford to fly to Turkey to come off for 10 days, the power is not sickly!
          drinks Do not hang your nose melt! Where ours did not disappear ..... and ours disappeared everywhere! laughing
      2. malyvalv
        malyvalv 14 September 2018 14: 18
        -1
        Dostoevsky wrote a novel "", which seems to be hinting. And "what to do" was written by Chernyshevsky.
  12. Serg65
    Serg65 14 September 2018 09: 16
    +3
    But in general, the situation is very sad. And the way out of it seems to be one: to sign on their own powerlessness and to bet not on what I would like to have (all these model-model dreams in the furnace), but on what can really be built.

    We all know about the existence of the Sevmash Shipyard - the cradle of Soviet and Russian nuclear submarines! But few people know that in 1999 this shipbuilding giant was in a state of clinical death and saved this plant by a contract to sell the Admiral Gorshkov TAVKR to India! Yes Yes! It was the transformation of Gorshkov into Vikramaditya that brought the plant back to life! Now about the article ... Mr. Skomorokhov, let's decide what to do! There is, in principle, nothing to be determined here, either we increase social security, salaries, pensions, bonuses, benefits, or we are building a fleet! Either we remove Putin, or we raise the industry! Two in one - it only happens in Snickers!
    promptly respond to changing world conditions in the form of combat-ready ship formations

    Again Roman, in your articles you always urge to give a damn about foreign policy and tackle internal, then why such a pathos?
    Now about the fleet itself!
    I have already said many times on the pages of VO that the shipyard is the final period of the ship's construction, and before this final period there are hundreds of primary ones! More than half of the ship's construction processes have been lost, some went to the former Soviet republics, some went to the "beautiful" 90s themselves, and they need to be built and restored ... starting at least from the canned bread production shop of the Pereslavl Bakery! Yes, yes Roman, I was not mistaken! It was this shop that supplied bread to the entire Soviet Navy, without this bread even SSBNs cannot go to sea! A ship without coastal infrastructure, just an iron box tied to the wall with ropes!
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 14 September 2018 09: 40
      0
      Quote: Serg65
      Either we remove Putin, or we raise industry

      Both on belay

      Tell me, who, in your opinion, at the beginning of the century carried out the "nationalization" of the oil and gas industry and filled the budget with money, which allowed the state to fulfill its social obligations and begin to restore the industry, starting with the military-industrial complex?

      Having removed Putin, we will again come to the ruin of 90's. To the bourgeois, appointed by the State Department and controlled by the State Department, the army is generally unnecessary. As you do not understand this, I do not understand.
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 14 September 2018 09: 55
        -1
        Quote: Boris55
        Having removed Putin, we will again come to the ruin of the 90s.

        Oh, how does it mean to all to pray for his health? And when on a gun carriage everyone will bitterly cry and tear their hair exuding bitter cries?
        P. S: you need to equip a place in the mausoleum, you already have a candidate ...
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 September 2018 09: 59
          0
          Quote: Puncher
          Oh, how does praying to everyone mean for his health?

          Do you deny the role of personality in history?

          You do not like that Russia did not break up? Do you not like our army? Do you not like our food security? What else do you dislike?
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 14 September 2018 10: 34
            +9
            Quote: Boris55
            You do not like that Russia did not break up? Do you not like our army? Do you not like our food security? What else do you dislike?

            Russia has not broken up for 18 years. Food safety we are fed even longer. In 30 years, will we also recall these theses as an excuse for our stagnation? I can still give you theses. They pacified the oligarchs, built a power vertical, made military service a respected business, annexed Crimea, and finally built generally good roads. Fine! Sumptuously! But it is ALREADY made. That's it, let's go. Thank you, of course, dear fathers, we are grateful to you for this - to everyone as a whole and personally to Putin. What's next???
            Government - people hired to solve our problems. For the work that they did earlier, we have long been paying them off, paying them a small salary and reelecting many for repeated periods. Forget about what you’ve done before. This is already waste material.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 40
              +4
              hi Welcome Alex!
              Quote: Alex_59
              Forget about what you’ve done before.

              laughing Forgot! Now we are waiting for what will happen! I see no reason to panic what
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 14 September 2018 12: 06
                +5
                Quote: Serg65
                I see no reason to panic

                Well, you may or may not have such reasons, you do not increase VAT and retirement age. )))
                Yes, I actually do not panic. Things are lousy, but God willing, we get out. But I am not convinced in any way by appeals to ignore the current sad state of affairs by paying the government for the affairs of bygone years. This is such a tricky move to avert a wave of criticism - they say remember how he saved you in 00's? That's it! And don’t grumble! Well, laughter. In the end, constructive criticism must be. After all, not everything is great here, why deny it? Missed Ukraine and gas turbine engines? Missed - a fact. Is financial sadness? Sadness - pensions and VAT do not increase when everything is fine. Shipbuilding program overwhelmed? Overwhelmed - the construction of the TFR has stopped, the construction of the EM has not begun, RTOs surrender at a pace that is ridiculous for this class of ships.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 14 September 2018 13: 06
                  +4
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Well, you may or may not have such reasons, you do not increase VAT and retirement age.

                  Yes, where can we improve that, we have ZP in 25 thousand. It is considered very good, state employees do not get more than 10 ..... and nothing, we live - we spin laughing
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  constructive criticism must be

                  I support one hundred percent, but only constructively!
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  not everything is great here, why deny it?

                  I personally do not deny that if it is brown, then do not go to the grandmother, she’s definitely brown!
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Missed Ukraine and gas turbine engines?

                  Ukraine was missed in the 85, when the RUH was organized, the customs declaration ... well, that was before the 2008 and not the fleet!
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Shipbuilding program overwhelmed?

                  Is there a reason for this or is it unreasonably overwhelmed?
                  It’s good to criticize, it’s necessary to criticize, well, again, it’s necessary to criticize for what you are criticizing for, otherwise it’s called tyranny, you’re all mediocre only I Dartanyan!
                  drinks hi
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 14 September 2018 14: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: Serg65
                    we ZP in 25 thousand is considered very good, state employees are more than 10 and do not receive ..... and nothing, we live - we turn

                    We have the same thing by the way.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Ukraine was missed in the 85, when the RUH was organized, the customs declaration ... well, that was before the 2008 and not the fleet!

                    Ukraine has been overlooked many times. Let's say it started in '85 or so. But from 2000 to 2014 there was a lot of time and opportunity to observe her and understand what's what. I personally had not a single drop of doubt that one should be as independent as possible from them. True, I was not particularly interested in the GTE, but when the production of the An-140 was launched at Aviakor, and the An-148 was launched at VASO, I was at a loss. Why are we not trying to organize the production of our Il-114, Tu-334, but take Ukrainian aircraft and start making them at home? In addition, SSJ has already flown - why do we need a competitor in the form of An-148? And as he looked into the water - their production has stopped today, the Tu-334 cannot be reanimated, we are again trying to start making the Il-114 from scratch ... And this despite the fact that, for example, they wanted to drag the production of the Il-76 to themselves - and could. When TAPOiCH closed.
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Is there a reason for this or is it unreasonably overwhelmed?

                    I try constructively. It is clear that destroyers or ABs can not be dreamed of. Duck at least drive the 20380 series, so that the body surrenders for 2-3 years, and not 7-8 years. After all, they made 11356 for the Indians - like hot cakes.
            2. Boris55
              Boris55 14 September 2018 10: 50
              -2
              Quote: Alex_59
              What's next???

              Further - the solution of internal problems, reflected in the "May Decrees" of the president. How much they will be fulfilled depends on how much they will be financed. By the way, the budget is being cut right now in the Duma.

              Forget about what you’ve done before. Forget about what you’ve done before.

              He who does not remember his past has no future.

              In no case will we forget anything, but we will definitely remind those who forgot. Otherwise, already on this forum, some are calling to return to 90.
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 14 September 2018 12: 00
                +6
                Quote: Boris55
                He who does not remember his past has no future.

                Chatter. You perfectly understood the context in which I propose to forget about the 90 and the happy salvation of Russia in the 00. In the context of the current agenda - definitely forget. But as a historical event - remember this on a par with the affairs of Khrushchev or Nicholas II.
                Quote: Boris55
                Further - the solution of internal problems, reflected in the "May Decrees" of the president.

                This "further" should have been decided 7-8 years ago. Suddenly woke up! May decrees ... The shipbuilding program is overwhelmed, the bottom line is an increase in pensions and VAT. Traded - had fun, counted - wept.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 14 September 2018 12: 22
                  -4
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  This "further" should have been decided 7-8 years ago.

                  Our dreams will always be ahead of our possibilities. Only after they maintained the integrity of Russia, did they feed the people, restore the army, ensure food security - can one dream of more Not earlier! There is no need to change furniture in a crumbling house. Do not for the sake of the dream of lace panties, really ruin the country.

                  Quote: Alex_59
                  the bottom line is the increase in pensions and VAT.

                  Laws are adopted by the Duma. President issues decrees

                  Raising the VAT, pushing through the pension reform, etc. - this is for Medvedev, for his government and his Duma. Are there any claims to the President's May Decrees? and by the way, whose interests is it aimed at - people or "friends"?
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 14 September 2018 13: 52
                    +6
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Raising VAT, pushing through pension reform, etc. - this is for Medvedev

                    Which Putin appointed. Yeah.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 14 September 2018 14: 26
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Which Putin appointed.

                      Which was approved by the Duma, in which there is an overwhelming majority of EP, whose party is headed by Medvedev. Do you think that the Duma (EP) could put someone else on the budget cut, except for its leader, say Zyuganov, and then swallow drool, while the tidbits slowly swim past their mouths? No, not for that they became deputies, so that the whole thing would be left to chance.
          2. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 14 September 2018 11: 05
            +4
            Quote: Boris55
            Do you deny the role of personality in history?

            I consider people who make themselves dependent on someone incapable.
            The President and others like them are ordinary people, just like everyone else, they are just officials fulfilling the will of the people, if they do not cope with their duties, then they must go on all four sides, no matter how golden and ingenious. There is a golden rule. GOOD GUY IS NOT A PROFESSION.
            Quote: Boris55
            What else do you dislike?

            I do not like the fact that the accumulated reserves are exported abroad and are not invested in the country's economy on the pretext that they are plundered. Only officials appointed by the president can steal them, respectively, ALL of them are thieves. If Putin put thieves in responsible positions and knows that they are thieves, then he is either the thief himself or mentally disabled. There are no other options. In both cases, he must go either to prison or to the hospital, and it does not matter what he has attached or built there.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 14 September 2018 11: 47
              -6
              Quote: Puncher
              I consider people who make themselves dependent on someone incapable.

              This is how all the believers of the World have just been recorded as incapacitated laughing
              By the way, since I remembered faith.

              1 commandment: "I am the Lord your God ... May you have no other gods before My face" (Exodus 20: 2-3).
              2nd commandment: "Do not make yourself an idol and no image of what is in heaven above, and what is on the earth below, and what is in the water below the earth. Do not worship them or serve them" (Exodus 20: 4-6)

              What are these commandments about? The fact that the idol should be and he should be alone.

              Quote: Puncher
              There is a golden rule. GOOD GUY IS NOT A PROFESSION.

              For it is written in the scripture: "Judge them according to their works." What kind of guy he is, I don’t know, I haven’t met, I judge him by his deeds - what country he accepted and what we have today. Improved life after the "Royal" or not. In my opinion - yes, life has become better.

              Quote: Puncher
              I do not like the fact that the accumulated reserves are exported abroad and are not invested in the country's economy

              I also don’t like this, but we all live by the laws that the chosen Duma adopts.

              Quote: Puncher
              If Putin has put thieves in critical positions

              Medvedev approved by us the elected Duma, the composition of the government was submitted for approval by Medvedev - it is the prime minister’s duty to recruit people, not Putin, etc. down the ladder. As for the oligarchs, they were appointed by the State Department in the 90's, which even now form lists of candidates at all levels of the elected government ...

              Quote: Puncher
              In both cases, he must either go to jail,

              Or maybe we should all be treated and not vote for the bourgeois party - EP, which defends their interests?

              We all live by the laws that our elected Duma adopted. If desired, she can create the conditions for writing a new Constitution in the flesh to the model of Stalin.

              Putin has no right to pass laws and interpret them. Putin does not have the right not to sign - all laws must be signed by him, otherwise a violation of the Constitution, marsh, impeachment. Putin does not have the right to form a country's budget — this is overheating of governments and the Duma. Etc...

              So what exactly are your claims to Putin?
          3. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 14 September 2018 11: 12
            +2
            Quote: Puncher
            P. S: in the mausoleum you need to equip a place

            So there is a place, they planted a second one. But did not lie for a long time, I had to throw it away.

            By the way, with extremism is more careful.

            Quote: Boris55
            Tell me, who do you think carried out the "nationalization" of the oil and gas industry at the beginning of the century

            You correctly put "nationalization" in quotation marks. The assets of YUNK and Bashneft were tidied up through the detention center, the assets of Sibneft and some small things were bought (and everyone is talking about these purchases), the assets of TNK BP were bought from the white gentlemen for non-fig money.
            Meanwhile, according to a report for August 2018, the United States became the largest oil producer in the world. They have been the largest producer of gas for a long time.
            Quote: Boris55
            and filled the budget with money

            This is Obama. His showdown with Libya and Iran. Prior to this, dvizhnyak on BV after 11/9/2001.
            Quote: Boris55
            which allowed the state to fulfill its social responsibilities

            Mmm ...
            Quote: Boris55
            and start rebuilding industry starting with the defense industry?

            And is she exactly recovering?
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 09
          +1
          Quote: Puncher
          Oh, how does praying to everyone mean for his health?

          Yes, my friend Puncher, it is to pray! Don’t pray now, after 5 years, pray anyway! laughing
          1. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 14 September 2018 11: 06
            -4
            Quote: Serg65
            after 5 years, pray anyway!

            Will he live?
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 14 September 2018 12: 04
              +4
              Quote: Puncher
              Will he live?

              And this is no difference! Remember him be a kind word - that's for sure !!!
            2. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 14 September 2018 12: 13
              0
              Quote: Puncher
              Will he live?

              V.V. Putin is 65+ years old.
              B.N. Yeltsin - 76 years old.
              M.S. Gorbachev - 87+ years old
              K.U. Chernenko - 74 years old, left so young, did not manage to do so much!
              Yu.V. Andropov, 70 years old, just a kid.
              L.I. Brezhnev - 76 years old.

              So for 5 years you can definitely count on it. And since BB is for healthy lifestyle and sports, 87 years are not old age.

              And now the bad news.
              D. Carter - 94+ years old.
              R. Reagan - 93 years old.
              D.G.U. Bush - 94+ years old
              Clinton, Bush Jr., Trump - all of 1946, Obama of 1961. McCain was 82.

              Girls born under Putin can already be kissed everywhere (for a long time you can, if you didn’t know), but they’ll hardly go to retire (if you don’t cancel) - in 2059 there will be 106 explosives, something it’s hard to guarantee. But in his 94 years, in 2047, he may well discuss the 10th term (2048-2054).
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 07
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        Tell me, who, in your opinion, at the beginning of the century carried out the "nationalization" of the oil and gas industry and filled the budget with money, which allowed the state to fulfill its social obligations and begin to restore the industry, starting with the military-industrial complex?

        And who is interested in it now, Borya?
        hi Приветствуем!
        Quote: Boris55
        How do you not understand this, I do not understand

        Oh! Some 27 years passed and we forgot how to read between the lines, to understand sarcasm. Where is the country heading?
  13. Boris55
    Boris55 14 September 2018 09: 29
    -4
    Now the Duma is approving the budget drawn up by the government under the strict guidance of Medvedev. How much our chosen ones will allocate for what will be, and what they will not allocate for will not be.
  14. RusKosTen
    RusKosTen 14 September 2018 09: 53
    +4
    Quote: Serg65
    starting at least from the canned bread production workshop of the Pereslavl bakery

    Something tells me that this is easier and faster than launching our own gas turbine production request
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 14 September 2018 10: 21
      +2
      Quote: RusKosTen
      Something tells me that it’s easier and faster to do,

      It is certainly easier, who argues! But there are still a lot of such "it"! I specifically focused your attention not on the power plant, not on weapons, but on those little things, without which the fleet cannot function.
  15. FANTOM-72
    FANTOM-72 14 September 2018 10: 03
    +3
    What a versatile person. Well, he is good in everything, and in the "interpatsan" graters in the Donbass, and in the economic, political, personnel problems of Russia. Now he finds himself in the strategic planning of the development and use of the Navy. Deep space next stop? A striking, immense mind of a human being.
    1. Forestol
      Forestol 14 September 2018 11: 13
      +3
      Any adult with education, intelligence and curiosity has his own view of the world. This is normal. But Friday's beer, a sofa and a zombie dog is not normal.
  16. xomaNN
    xomaNN 14 September 2018 10: 11
    +3
    As always, this author's article is pugnacious. The one that deliberately provokes controversy. It is right. I will say that precisely because the shipyards of the Russian Federation cannot build large displacement oil ships, it is especially important to deeply modernize the EM, BOD, and KR "Soviet projects". These are platforms for new missile weapons. am
    1. Forestol
      Forestol 14 September 2018 11: 11
      -1
      and the fact that the cost of restoration is orders of magnitude (!) more expensive than new ones, suits everyone very much. Sawing budgets is a good thing, even with royal tenders.
  17. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 14 September 2018 10: 27
    -2
    Well, we leave the pessimism to the conscience of the author. I hope in 10-15 years Russia will already have a worthy Navy, incl. and the far sea zone, though not as powerful as it was in the Union or now in the United States, but still ..... I HOPE very much !!!
    1. Forestol
      Forestol 14 September 2018 11: 10
      +1
      hopes of young men feed. We need an organization that does not cut the budget, but is responsible for the Fleet. We do not have one.
  18. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 14 September 2018 10: 36
    0
    But I agree with Roman. Russia is a land power! All resources are in the SV and Strategic Missile Forces, but for now there will be enough money !!!
    1. Forestol
      Forestol 14 September 2018 11: 08
      0
      Man, the main blow in a future war will be delivered from cruise missiles from the North Pole by nuclear missiles with nuclear warheads. Out of reach of coastal anti-ship missiles. If you count on the Moscow air defense circuit, it’s too late, don’t you? For this, the Fleet is needed, to remove the enemy from their territories in advance.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 14 September 2018 12: 16
        +6
        Quote: Forestol
        Man, the main blow in a future war will be inflicted from naval dislocations of the North Pole by cruise missiles with nuclear warheads

        Alexey .... or Roman? Yes, no difference! What are the "North Pole marine locations"? And how will they strike from there?
        Quote: Forestol
        For this, the Fleet is needed, to remove the enemy from their territories in advance.

        Remove the enemy from the North Pole?
        what I think that the main blow in a future war will be delivered directly in the Moscow capital of our country, in the triangle of Bolotnaya-Borovitskaya-Manezhnaya Square and not cruise missiles at all!
  19. Izotovp
    Izotovp 14 September 2018 10: 58
    0
    In order for a fleet of a distant sea or ocean zone to be built, only one thing is needed to make it profitable. When there was the Soviet Union, the sums of the benefits from the construction and maintenance of the ocean fleet covered all the costs for it. As soon as the sums of interests of modern Russian companies at least get closer to the right ones, there will immediately be both personnel and production capacities and technological solutions. Now it’s not even clear what type of ships to buy machines for. And if tomorrow state-owned companies say that they need expeditionary vessels to protect the rigs in the far sea zone? And we will sculpt a squadron from a destroyer to a helicopter carrier with nuclear reactors. And this, most likely, will turn out faster than with diesels.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 14 September 2018 11: 06
      +3
      Quote: Izotovp
      When the Soviet Union was, the sums of benefits from the construction and maintenance of the ocean fleet covered all the costs of it.

      what What an interesting thought! And what was the benefit of the fleet under the Union?
      1. Izotovp
        Izotovp 14 September 2018 11: 10
        +1
        Do you think it was all built for the pleasure of our admirals? Protecting the economic interests of this required: the extraction and transportation of fish, rare-earth ores, fruits, trade in machinery — all this needed to be ensured by the security of our fleet. A recent example is the defense of our economic interests in Syria.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 14 September 2018 12: 07
          +1
          Quote: Izotovp
          Do you think it was all built for the pleasure of our admirals?

          Well, my friend, the admirals were pawns in the big game of the military-industrial complex + Minister of Defense against the Soviet people and the fleet in particular!
          1. Izotovp
            Izotovp 14 September 2018 12: 11
            0
            Which game? Who played against whom in the Soviet Union? Can I expand my thought a bit?
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 14 September 2018 13: 37
              +7
              Quote: Izotovp
              Can I expand my thought a bit?

              Yes, of course you can, why not ...
              Quote: Izotovp
              Who played against whom in the Soviet Union?

              Let's start from the top of the stairs .. members of the Politburo played against each other, each with his own team, members of the Central Committee fought for a place under the sun with everyone in a row, relevant ministries fought with the State Planning Commission for extra funds, the military-industrial complex fought for pushing their enchanting and expensive projects, and the minister Ustinov’s defense in the past, the chief of the military-industrial complex actively helped them in this. Here we come to the problems of the Navy of the USSR! The fleet needed projects 1144, 1143, 705К, 941, 945 ??? The fleet needed the 1155, 956, 1174, 1164, 971, 949A projects, and they had a gulkin horseradish, but we had strange aircraft carriers, the largest nuclear cruisers, the largest nuclear submarines, and ekranoplanes! At that time, my grandmother, a collective farmer with 40 years of experience, received a pension of 30 rubles, my mother, a doctor, worked at 100 rubles for days and nights to get a pension in 2 rubles, the state paid subsidies to the collective farm 5 rubles! So the Soviet state fought with the Soviet people! At the same time, we all shouted the glory of the CPSU, did not grumble and lived a fun-paradox?
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 14 September 2018 14: 43
                +3
                Greetings! hi
                Quote: Serg65
                The fleet needed projects 1155, 956, 1174, 1164, 971, 949A, and they were with gulkin horseradish, but then we had strange aircraft carriers, the largest nuclear cruisers, the largest nuclear submarines, and ekranoplanes!

                As a flotophile - fiercely, I furiously protest against the absence of 1160 or 1153 on the list! smile
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 40
                  -2
                  I don’t agree, only submarines and 1135 were needed, all that was bigger and not submarines was needed then
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 16 September 2018 08: 38
                    +2
                    Quote: vladimir1155
                    disagree

                    For God's sake!
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 16 September 2018 08: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  As a flotophile - fiercely, I furiously protest against the absence of 1160 or 1153 on the list!

                  crying Fuck, frowned! Nerves! recourse
                  Welcome Alex! hi
              2. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 38
                -1
                Quote: Serg65
                Projects 1144, 1143, 705K, 941, 945 needed the fleet ???
                generally agree, but apl all were needed then and are needed now, including large
    2. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 14 September 2018 13: 07
      -1
      As far as I know, in the Soviet Union there have always been problems with the miscalculation of "benefits". First, a task was set, and the entire team (on a national scale - the People), achieved it. Sometimes it was expedient and grandiose, and sometimes it seemed silly. If the task was to squeeze out the American fleet in the Atlantic and disrupt the enemy's transport communications from the United States to Europe, then the ships were built for these tasks. What is the economic benefit here?
      1. Izotovp
        Izotovp 14 September 2018 13: 19
        0
        Where does this awareness of decision-making methodology come from at the level of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU? And you definitely know about the existence of an order on the violation of transport communications? Or is it your speculation? In fact, this is almost a declaration of war. Each ship was extraterritorial and then the Americans did not have the arrogance as now because there was more or less parity. And then, cargo had to be protected at that time. And the pirates were, and sometimes from the same Americans, by the way. Funny occasions sometimes occurred, as, for example, with an American rocket caught by Cuban fishermen and handed over to us.
        1. RusKosTen
          RusKosTen 14 September 2018 13: 33
          +4
          In fact, Kuznetsov and further Ulyanovsk were built for this purpose - to provide air cover for the squadron operating offshore, in particular in the Atlantic, after the outbreak of global turmoil. If necessary, I can find proof.

          And regarding decision-making in the USSR, one does not need to be a member of the Politburo. You can give an example with growing crops. I am from Krasnoyarsk, from Siberia. In the days of the Union, we had a bunch of state farms and sown fields around the edge, now everything is overgrown. However, we collect grain in the country as in the best years of the USSR. Because they use better suitable soils and the climate of Rostov and Stavropol Territory. Objectively speaking, Siberia is not the best place for this. And the state farms were because it was necessary to borrow something from the working people, although this is not economically feasible. But other goals were a priority. So it goes. And I’ll ask you not to poke speculation.
          1. Izotovp
            Izotovp 14 September 2018 13: 47
            -1
            First: no one poked you and the level of your competence to assess the activities of the government of a world power is in great doubt.
            Second: we are talking about a global war or about ensuring the country's economic interests in the so-called peacetime, that is, when there is no open armed confrontation with large-scale hostilities. And the fact that the fighting was ongoing, any military of that time will tell you ... maybe ... if the subscription on secrecy is over. And even that is not a fact.
            A fresh example: the action of our two submarines in the Mediterranean Sea, which did not allow the British submarine to enter the strike position and foiled the missile strike on Syria that it was supposed to inflict. This is a classic example of warfare. Very literate.
            1. RusKosTen
              RusKosTen 14 September 2018 14: 26
              +3
              On the first point - I suspect that you do not really have such competencies. However, no one bothers with analysis based on the information that we possess. So we are even. And according to the second - according to your logic, the phrase about the economic feasibility of the Soviet fleet was hooked. From my point of view, both the Union fleet and the recovering fleet of the Russian Federation should, first of all, be able to solve geopolitical military tasks during the onset of the conflict and be able to withstand the probable enemy fleet, based on these goals, and the TK for the creation of the ship is being formed. And ensuring economic interests and influence away from the coast is a useful appendage for work in peacetime.
              1. Izotovp
                Izotovp 14 September 2018 15: 08
                +1
                On the first point: I do not know what your education is, but I was taught very well at the Academy. And the course of military history was taught to us by no means the last and very famous person in St. Petersburg. And war is a continuation of the economy.
                Further: to get into the highest echelons of power for money in Soviet times was simply impossible. It was necessary to move up the career ladder gradually, gaining experience and knowledge.
                The struggle between clans and technical schools under any authority has been and will always be a competition. And what kind of concept wins, such decisions on the construction of ships or the adoption of a machine gun are adopted. And judging ancestors is easy. Try to make the right decision here and now.
                And yet, there are no peaceful exits of warships at sea. ) There is always combat duty and the implementation of a very specific combat mission.
              2. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 34
                -1
                list specific geopolitical tasks for the fleet .... and eclonomic tasks .... all these are your fantasies, except for the defense of your ports, and the shelf and retaliatory strike against the enemy of the strategic nuclear forces, the Russian fleet has no tasks
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 14 September 2018 15: 24
            +1
            Quote: RusKosTen
            In fact, Kuznetsov and further Ulyanovsk were built for this purpose - to provide air cover for the squadron operating off the coast, in particular in the Atlantic, after the outbreak of global turmoil.

            EMNIP, first of all, the ships of project 1143 were supposed to cover from the air the defense forces of the "bastions" - the defense lines of the SSBN deployment areas and naval bases. Because from some areas of these bastions to the nearest land was 400-500 miles, and reserves from base airfields arrived later than the detected enemy strike vehicles reached the launch line of anti-ship missiles.
    3. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 44
      -1
      protection of platforms in the far sea zone can be entrusted to 636 and 11356, cruisers, um and others will not be needed for this
  20. Forestol
    Forestol 14 September 2018 11: 04
    0
    FIRST. This is a payment for the sale of the Russian fleet in the 90s, when the Fleet was sold abroad for metal, and no one sat down for it, although they had to be executed. The personalities are known, but there are no cases.
    The second one. These are the consequences of “embedding” Russia in the global economy. When the prime minister for years declared that it is not necessary to maintain unprofitable factories, we’ll buy it. Abroad.
    The third. These are the consequences of the policies of our rulers over the past 25 years, when they surrendered to everyone everything that is possible. If not for the Crimea, we would have been left without a Fleet. Because only Russia’s withdrawal from Crimea required 300 billion dollars at a time.
    Fourth. At the heart of all the troubles of the Fleet is the capitalist-oligarchic system. When they master the budget, and do not build ships. When you buy Mistral in France, whores from Moscow ....
    Therefore, we, as Ukraine, are unfinished, with the remains of Soviet artifacts.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 14 September 2018 12: 24
      +4
      Quote: Forestol
      Therefore, we, as Ukraine, are unfinished, with the remains of Soviet artifacts.

      laughing All the same, Roman!
      Quote: Forestol
      At the heart of all the troubles of the Fleet is the capitalist-oligarchic system

      At the heart of all the troubles not only of the fleet, but also of the country lies the moment when the Communists decided to become capitalists and it is not necessary to hang all the dogs on Gorbachev!
      Quote: Forestol
      These are the consequences of “embedding” Russia in the global economy.

      laughing I understand ... it was necessary to build a fence with a thorn around the perimeter ???
      Quote: Forestol
      Russia’s departure from Crimea required 300 billion dollars at a time

      what Where do the rumors come from?
      1. Forestol
        Forestol 14 September 2018 13: 14
        -1
        According to the analysis of the Minister of Defense Shoigu, only for the withdrawal of the Fleet from Crimea 100 billion, re-equipment of the port of Novorossiysk 100 billion, transportation of families and housing more than 150 billion. For a minute, only military research institutes in the Crimea in Russia had more than 1400.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 14 September 2018 13: 45
          +3
          Quote: Forestol
          For a minute, only the military research institutes in Crimea in Russia had more than 1400.

          what Come on?!!! laughing
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 14 September 2018 14: 13
            +1
            Quote: Serg65
            Come on?!!!

            Tovarisch probably means that in the military research institutes working in the interests of the Russian Federation and located in Crimea, 1400 employees worked.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 16 September 2018 08: 46
              +2
              Quote: Alex_59
              Tovarisch probably means that in the military research institutes working in the interests of the Russian Federation and located in Crimea, 1400 employees worked.

              laughing This is more acceptable for my fragile brain!
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 14 September 2018 13: 52
          0
          Quote: Forestol
          only for the withdrawal of the Fleet from Crimea 100 billion, re-equipment of the port of Novorossiysk 100 billion, transportation of families and housing more than 150 billion

          350 billion. One bridge 228 billion.
          Quote: Forestol
          only military research institutes in the Crimea in Russia had more than 1400.

          Seriously?
          1. bang
            bang 14 September 2018 23: 49
            0
            350 billion. One bridge 228 billion.

            The bridge is not only for the military and the bridge leads to the best (in strategic terms) base in the Black Sea.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 15 September 2018 12: 37
              0
              Quote: bang-bong
              the best (in strategic terms) base in the Black Sea.

              The best, it’s the worst, it’s the only place in the World Cup that matters strategically - the Straits. The straits, by the way, are of strategic importance for trade and logistics, but in the naval sense they lead from one trap to
              another: in the Eastern Mediterranean, it will fly in exactly the same way from all sides.
              In Sevastopol and, I do not know, Gelendzhik, the KChF will remain what it is now - the coast guard with admiral posts. The same goes for DCBF, and, to a lesser extent, CSF.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 15 September 2018 12: 51
                0
                geography, her mother, took up arms against us, because Russia should not be a great sea power!
                1. Narak-zempo
                  Narak-zempo 15 September 2018 13: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  geography, her mother, took up arms against us, because Russia should not be a great sea power!

                  Alexander I was also a rag. I would be a real politician, I would leave myself an occupation zone on the Mediterranean coast of France.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 15 September 2018 13: 51
                    -1
                    Quote: Narak-zempo
                    Would be a real politician

                    You forget that in Vienna, unlike Yalta, everyone understood everything correctly: the task of all former opponents was to remove Russia from Europe. The task of the government of Alexander I was not to lose too much. They did what they could.
                2. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 15 September 2018 13: 34
                  0
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  geography, her mother, took up arms against us, because Russia should not be a great sea power!

                  In South Africa, geography is more favorable, but the great power of South Africa is only against its South African background, and the sea is not at all. And there is no problem.
                  It's not about geography.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 15 September 2018 13: 46
                    +1
                    Did we have battleships in both the Black Sea Fleet and the BF - sense? In the north, ice, east without infrastructure. No arguing against geography
  21. Ham
    Ham 14 September 2018 11: 21
    +1
    the authors of such articles are never experts in the issues under consideration
    1. Forestol
      Forestol 14 September 2018 13: 10
      0
      That's right, like the prime minister of Russia and even the president. Socialists shut their mouths and are silent.
  22. Old26
    Old26 14 September 2018 11: 24
    +2
    Quote: rudolff
    What prevents to upgrade a couple of three shipyards to the level of Nikolaev or build new ones from scratch? Yes, nothing prevents. In addition to their own Faberge.

    Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, there was talk that it was necessary to build the appropriate infrastructure in Severodvinsk, capable of releasing ships up to and including the aircraft carrier class. But things are still there
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Forestol
        Forestol 14 September 2018 12: 53
        +2
        bull's-eye!
      2. RusKosTen
        RusKosTen 14 September 2018 13: 23
        +1
        Maybe this is an undercover job? wink
  23. VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 14 September 2018 11: 54
    +4
    This is not an article. Every schoolchild knows about the state of the fleet. It is necessary to raise patriotic sentiments. Advise a way out of the situation. Otherwise our children and grandchildren will spit on such a country and disperse around the world. They have ruined their school education. So what kind of specialists are we talking about. Who are they? The same motors will do. Here, for example, EG. Is this a test of knowledge? Paid study at the university. Start first with education. They told Putin that the average salary in the Primorsky Territory is 70 thousand. Lies, although office workers receive 100 thousand, and workers in the same company is 17-20. This is what I need. Who will work for 20 thousand? They will leave for another place. The theater begins with a hanger. It is necessary to start with the younger generation, and not shout “The boss is all gone!” Who destroyed education knew What he did. Russia cannot be defeated by military means. So they took up our children. They have whole institutions overseas working on this problem. Our generation will leave and what will we leave behind? Look what our children are doing. These are computer games, partying parties .There at night m clubs go
    Grades 8-9. Horror! We need to get the country out of shit, or we’ll slide down to the African republics. And we don’t have a fleet, so we don’t have much. Here, for example, a porcelain factory was destroyed in Vladivostok. And the closest one is in the Urals. profitable? At one time, we even delivered dishes to Japan.
  24. AleBors
    AleBors 14 September 2018 12: 16
    +5
    ... But what kind of yachts do our oligarchs and deputies have ... And the palaces on the Cote d'Azur? ... That's it .. And you say the fleet .. the fleet .. Effective managers know where to invest money.
  25. Igor Strakh
    Igor Strakh 14 September 2018 12: 28
    0

    I am an infantry, therefore the fleet floats for me - and does not go. But firstly - in modern wars a tank for € 5 lemons can be knocked out by bearded terrorists in a maneuverable jeep ... or a large cabinet falls down loudly ... just imagine - an aircraft carrier ... well, for example, who have they got there? - Nimets - how many crew are there? Well, I think - about 5000 people. this is an infantry division. And you try to destroy a trenched infantry division, and even in long-term concrete fortifications with a closed-filter ventilation cycle. Will it work out? And I can tell you - even nuclear weapons are not very successful, and the fleet, and even on the gigantic surface of the ocean, is just an ideal target for an "intercontinental", and there is no need to bury anyone. The author complains about the "maskite" fleet with "bastions" - so maybe that's what it is? This entire aircraft carrier group is so "kitsch" for the natives off the coast of Africa - to play with muscles, fly airplanes, in a global war these cans can easily turn into mass graves. Secondly, - the author complains about the lack of diesel engines for large ships - are diesel engines needed for large ships? As far as I know, the amers' entire aircraft-carrying fleet is nuclear. And the "atom" seems to be doing in Russia. There seems to be a new icebreaker being completed, no? And the atomic liners are made in Russia.
    1. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 14 September 2018 13: 11
      +3
      Have you ever thought that flying by plane over Africa brings enormous benefits to the companies of your country, extracting resources there, paying taxes to the state budget, from which they then pay pensions and salaries to state employees?
      1. Igor Strakh
        Igor Strakh 14 September 2018 14: 21
        -4
        Well, throw the engine on the Kuznetsov to the atom, put good catchers there for landing, and this ship will be enough for Africa.
    2. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 18 September 2018 17: 33
      0
      It’s immediately clear that the infantry ... what kind of intercontinental ??? there is no such anti-ship weapon. To destroy the carrier group, it is necessary to approach it at least 500-600 km, which, in conditions of complete superiority in the sea theater, the Americans will not give anyone. Read that It consists of a similar group of ships, its strength, and armament. At the moment, not one country in the world can compete with the American fleet. And the fleet is not cans, alas ...
  26. barsuk
    barsuk 14 September 2018 13: 02
    +1
    I was thinking about whether Russia needs an ocean-going fleet and asked myself one question: "Is NATO capable of fighting if it is possible to impose a blockade on America?"
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 28
      0
      no, it will not succeed in the first place, so you can not speculate
  27. Persifal
    Persifal 14 September 2018 13: 07
    0
    I don't see any technical problems. No diesels? Boilers? Well, maybe it wasn't in the 14th year. Now, we are already producing something of our own, we are buying something. And for ships of the 1st rank this is not so critical. Nuclear reactors will probably stand there. We have shipyards for the construction of ships of the first rank. The same Baltic Shipyard that the Orlans built. But all the shipyards are busy now. And first of all, not a mosquito fleet. There are about 10 nuclear submarines under construction at the same time: 5 Boreyev and 5 Ash trees. Well, 5 pieces of Frigates are being completed. Plus 1 Eagle for modernization. Total shipyards are packed. As soon as they are free, they will start building. But what to build? - agree, they won't tell us in advance. I think that the emphasis will be on the Leader destroyers, or something similar. But we will find out more precisely in the coming years, when everything on the stocks will be completed.
  28. NordUral
    NordUral 14 September 2018 13: 12
    0
    This is not the point, but the fact that this was the task of those who have been in power since 91. And so in everything. It is time to already understand this.
  29. Tektor
    Tektor 14 September 2018 13: 28
    0
    Why panegyr then? I make a proposal: to numb V12 with electrohybrid from Cortege. We will immediately make a new generation of marine power units: hybrid. Only the power of the electric motor needs to be seriously increased from 100 available hp. to the required.
  30. Awaz
    Awaz 14 September 2018 13: 36
    +4
    and remember here some with foam at the mouth were eager to build super-bearers ... So what? The situation is described by the author really. We even began to build large-capacity shipyards not for the sake of the Navy, but because it became fashionable to carry liquid gas to transport oceans from the sea .. YES and cash shipyards are essentially unprofitable. We do not have those volumes of construction that would work efficiently and profitably. Everything is done very slowly, with constant puffs and jambs and also with alterations, which repels all potential buyers. It is clear, of course, that it is necessary to build its own production, but it is not very pleasant when good salaries to slaves and insane incomes of the owners are paid at the expense of pensioners and generally all citizens ..
    Today at work I came across that how stupid our management is, they don’t understand the obvious things at all, and they see the main leitmotif as to invest less in the product and sell it as expensive as possible, almost without thinking about the content of the product itself ..
    1. bang
      bang 15 September 2018 00: 00
      +1
      Today at work I came across that how stupid our management is, they don’t understand the obvious things at all, and they see the main leitmotif as to invest less in the product and sell it as expensive as possible, almost without thinking about the content of the product itself ..

      This is not only with you


      YES and cash shipyards are essentially unprofitable

      Who does not feed his army, he feeds someone else's.
  31. Igoresha
    Igoresha 14 September 2018 13: 40
    0
    The fleet is expensive and there has been no sense from it since the time of Ekatirina2, it means to cut it, and there will be enough mosquito poachers and border guards. Kudrin was right about "living within our means"
    1. 30143
      30143 15 September 2018 09: 57
      0
      Do not remember him, sick of his sight
  32. samal20123
    samal20123 14 September 2018 13: 46
    +2
    OUR guys will come up with something ...
  33. vindigo
    vindigo 14 September 2018 14: 19
    0
    It seems that modern Russia in terms of production capabilities is even worse than the tsarist backward Russia, respectively, with a discount on progress. Then ocean ships (armadillos and cruisers) calmly riveted, and in decent quantities, ordered abroad, and now a country trying to appear as a superpower can no longer make large ships
    1. Corn
      Corn 15 September 2018 02: 45
      -1
      Was the Russian Empire so backward if it was among the leaders in the production of steam locomotives, planes, cars, rakes (not only warships were riveted, but also an impressive merchant fleet), i.e. in the areas that were the most high-tech at that time?
  34. kig
    kig 14 September 2018 14: 46
    0
    The phrase about the hulls of military (!) Ships (!!) from Ukrainian (!!!) factories is absolutely incomprehensible. And an example can be in the studio? GTU is another matter, but the building ... the author mixed up something.
  35. Conductor
    Conductor 14 September 2018 14: 50
    0
    This is why we can’t do housings at home? Where did the firewood come from?
  36. Santor
    Santor 14 September 2018 16: 12
    -1
    Vsepalschik, author of fakes about videoconferencing in Syria, Roman Skomorokhov, because of whom and his brother Damantsev, almost all those who wrote analytical articles left TopVar, again noted. We must pay tribute - he knows how to write dirty tricks beautifully, furnishing them with tons of figures and a bunch of photographs, causing those who do not know them to trust their posts. The handwriting that he has that of Damantsev is the same, as if one person scribbles. I think that their main job is to write on this forum. So prolific .... In the journalistic environment, both have not been respected for a long time, to put it mildly .... As an example, here is an article dated 16 years old, indicating their bias in covering the campaign of "Admiral Kuznetsov" and using unreliable facts - http: // svpressa .ru / society / article / 140442 /

    Moreover, they write fruitfully at the same time on several sites, covering their posts with a large audience.

    I won’t be surprised if I’ll be banned again.

    And by the way, the photo of "Lazarev" is old. They rested it, painted it and again put it in the Abrek Bay near Fokino. His turn after working out all points for the modernization of "Nakhimov" plus the readiness of the Eastern Shipyard. It was decided not to tow it to the North. There, after "Nakhimov" "Peter" will get up.
  37. Koronik
    Koronik 14 September 2018 17: 14
    0
    Crimea is good, but Nikolaev is, if not all, then quite a lot. The break with Ukraine, political and economic, also destroyed (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian naval diesels and hulls. "How, it turns out, Russian warships were built in Nikolaev! Nonsense!
  38. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 14 September 2018 17: 24
    -3
    Quote: RusKosTen
    The very fact of his presence gives you certain privileges. It would seem that, for example, we would have 4 aircraft carriers, of which 2 would constantly be at sea, and they would never fire for their service. Would you think that they were useless all this time? Of course not. In specific situations, they provided you with an indirect advantage over others, giving preference to your economy with the conclusion of certain transactions and companies in your country, and this is state revenue. You know, competition.

    this is nonsense you wrote, of course, all aircraft carriers are useless in competition, now there are no such boobies that when you see a big ship, raise your legs up. If you take the battle ship out, be ready to shoot, and be prepared to be sunk. Russia, the IMF’s servant, they gave their country to the adversary with giblets until the abolition of pensions, and sitting in shit screaming about a great power and aircraft carriers plowing the oceans .... but no one will see it, because the SNN will not show, already in the 20th century they stopped being afraid of ships
    , everything is ruled by world capital (FRS, IMF, WTO, ROTSHILD Inc. through VANGUARD JSC) and not aircraft carriers, and capital is not afraid of them because it has 12 of them itself. and has many tools to control not only the banana republics, but also non-local ones, including the Russian Federation, obediently fulfilling any of his commands. What nonsense! you seem to still live in the ussr, you haven’t heard "your own economy", I only know the world eeonomy that exploits the natural resources of the Russian Federation, or "state revenues" are you probably talking about the reserve fund, we send more income more tribute to the United States, that's all ...
  39. akbars555
    akbars555 14 September 2018 18: 21
    +1
    Did any of those present here serve in these corps, did military service, practice, or an excursion? Do you imagine how difficult it is to restore the combat readiness and repair of ships of the 1st and 2nd rank of the USSR and Russia !?
  40. lopvlad
    lopvlad 14 September 2018 18: 46
    +1
    The break with Ukraine, political and economic, destroyed and (first of all) such a thing as shipbuilding cooperation. That is, Russia was left without Ukrainian marine diesels and hulls.


    The "break" with Ukraine returned the Black Sea Fleet to Russia and, strange as it sounds, it returned Russia to the world arena. The question here is probably not in diesel engines, because this issue is being resolved, and the ship can be built almost completely before installing the engine (it is enough to lay the dimensions for the engine in the project not yet).
    If you look at how Russian shipyards are loaded, you will understand that Russia, unlike the USSR, loaded these shipyards with the construction of ships for the production of hydrocarbons and other businesses.
    Under the warships of large displacement, there was neither space nor money left for construction.
    The IMF prohibits giving the "Russian" Central Bank and Aunt Nabiulina money for development, so our army and navy are being rearmed not thanks to, but rather in spite of and due to the constant increase in taxes from the common people.
    Rejoice at the mosquito fleet and the genius of Russian military designers who managed to make formidable weapons from RTOs by putting gauges on them.
    And we will build large attack ships and aircraft carriers only when the policy of the Central Bank is determined neither by the IMF but by the Russian government.
  41. dgonni
    dgonni 14 September 2018 20: 02
    +4
    On business and sensibly! The main message is not misunderstood! Lack of moorings for large ships in the Pacific Fleet. All those who fell on the Pacific Fleet died not of old age but of the wear of auxiliary equipment and purely because of the lack of equipment of the berths or the inability to get the necessary energy!
  42. nnz226
    nnz226 14 September 2018 20: 54
    +3
    Howls about the loss of Nikolaev shipyards after the 2014 year are designed for idiots ??? Something I don’t remember, starting from 1992 of the year, at least one large ship for the Russian Navy was built at Nikolaev shipyards .... And the fact that they don’t build ships of a class of a destroyer or higher and hardly plan it is sad! But to Nikolaev has no relation ....
  43. starshina78
    starshina78 14 September 2018 21: 17
    +2
    Shame on the authorities who brought the Navy to such an extent. I served in the Fleet during the Soviet Union and saw how the Fleet was renewed, how ships went in packs, and now shame and shame. Liberasts led by our Moon-faced brought that we can’t build engines! That there are engines for ships, we no longer build tractors! The last tractor factory - Vladimirsky was closed. And he, Moon-faced, blunders something else on TV. Ugh! It's disgusting!
  44. VRF
    VRF 14 September 2018 23: 49
    +2
    Such articles are common, and all with the same content. Could it be easier to re-post the old than riveting more and more new with a pan-propaganda attitude? It’s sick to read, by God ..
  45. Rocj
    Rocj 16 September 2018 12: 00
    +2
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    I am glad that I am old, I do not want to see what will happen to the country next.
    Everything will be fine! do not worry! Russia rises and straightens up, it’s hard for her, but she can also our people, I have repeatedly proved this!
  46. trahterist
    trahterist 16 September 2018 15: 25
    0
    As for the diesel engines did not understand, from the word at all.
    What Kolomensky and Bryansk forgotten how to do them suddenly ??!
    No, mlyn, we pray at MTU (God forbid!) Or Wärtsilä (well, this one, really, a world leader at least) ...
    At first, it started with diesel locomotives, some ki tried to shove GE and MTU, but the Kolomentians are great, even though they kicked out the overseas 'competitors' there!
    But with the sailor everything is still in the fog, sadness ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 September 2018 18: 53
      +1
      Quote: trahterist
      As for the diesel engines did not understand, from the word at all.
      What Kolomensky and Bryansk forgotten how to do them suddenly ??!

      And Kolomna does not need marine diesel engines. The plant lives well on orders from Russian Railways. As a result, based on the results of the operation of the "Perfect", the fleet decided that even if it were MTU or the devil is bald in a mortar, but not Kolomna diesel engines.
      Here is what the commander of the Navy said 3 years ago:
      V. Chirkov said that in Russia there are only three enterprises that are engaged in the production of marine power plants: Kolomensky diesel, Ural diesel, "which makes it so that after two months of cover on these plants, sea water completely eats away." In addition, there is a Zvezda plant, said the commander in chief, who showed at the Marine Salon an engine of his own design, but actually made in Austria.
      "And where in Russia to get the metal from which this engine will be made? Are we able to make such cases and such parts in Russia? No," said the commander in chief.

      ICH, the Urals fully recognized this criticism.
  47. Forever so
    Forever so 17 September 2018 14: 28
    +1
    It was only with kings and in the USSR that the main allies were the fleet and the army. And today, the main allies of Rockefeller and Rothschild are in power, and to fight against the owner of a non-comme il faut. so cruisers on the needles.
  48. ratan524
    ratan524 17 September 2018 19: 51
    +1
    Ahhhhh .... FSE gone !!!
  49. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 18 September 2018 17: 20
    0
    Absolutely true article ... alas ... everything is so.
  50. The comment was deleted.