Military Review

ShVAK Aviation Cannon. Soviet aces weapons

77
Large-caliber machine guns and the first guns appeared on board the aircraft during the First World War, but then they were only timid attempts to strengthen the firepower of the first aircraft. Until the middle of the 30 of the XX century, this weapon в aviation used only occasionally. The real heyday of aviation rapid-fire guns occurred in the prewar years and the years of World War II. In the Soviet Union, one of the most famous aircraft guns, which was installed on a huge number of aircraft from I-16 to La-7, and as part of the turrets used on Pe-8 and Er-2 bombers, was a 20-mm ShVAK automatic cannon (Shpitalny -Vladimirov Aviation Large-caliber). Mostly, this gun was used to equip Soviet fighters.


At the same time, none of the Soviet aircraft guns could not boast of such production volumes as ShVAK. In 1942, which was rather difficult for the whole country, Soviet enterprises were able to produce 34 aircraft guns of this type. ShVAK was launched at the Tula Arms, Kovrov Arms and Izhevsk Machine-Building Plants. In total, in the USSR, taking into account the pre-war release, more than 601 thousand copies of the 100-mm ShVAK air gun were manufactured. Its slightly modified version was also used to arm the lungs. tanks, for example, the T-60 mass tank. Given the volume of production and use of this artillery system, it is rightly referred to as the "weapon of victory."

ShVAK is the first Soviet automatic aircraft gun caliber 20 mm. It was put into service in the 1936 year and was made up to the 1946 year, when the last 754 guns of this type were assembled. The aircraft gun was produced in four versions: wing, turret, motor-gun and synchronous. The motor-gun was distinguished by the presence of a longer trunk and a shock absorber. In terms of its design, ShVAK was completely analogous to the large-caliber 12,7-mm machine gun of the same name, which was adopted in 1934 year. The difference was only in the diameter of the trunk used. The tests of the large-caliber ShVAK machine gun were shown to the designers that, thanks to the available margin of safety, the caliber of the system can be increased to 20 mm without changing the dimensions of the moving system, simply by replacing the barrel. The ShVAK gun had a tape feed, the reloading process was carried out mechanically or pneumatically.

ShVAK Aviation Gun



Synchronous Shwak on La-5 fighter


For the first time, a new gun was installed on the IP-1 fighter by Dmitry Pavlovich Grigorovich. In the summer of 1936, she was presented to the Air Force Research Institute for state testing. At the same time for its refinement took about four years. Only in 1940, the ShVAK cannon designed by Boris Gavrilovich Shpitalny and Semyon Vladimirovich Vladimirov began to be mounted on Soviet fighters, both in the fork of the engine block of the M-105 aircraft engine (motor-gun) and in the wing. The combat debut of the new Soviet aircraft cannon fell on the 1939 year. ShVAK cannon fighters stood on I-16 fighters, which were used in battles with the Japanese at Khalkhin Gol.

Structurally, the 20-mm ShVAK aviation gun repeated the models of ShKAS and ShVAK machine guns (12,7 mm) preceding it. Automatic guns worked on the basis of the gas outlet. The air cannon had a fixed barrel, which, when assembled, was connected to the assembled box with the aid of a locking insert. As in previous developments, the 20-mm ShVAK aviation cannon utilized the Spit-type system's highlight — a drum-type 10-positional mechanism for the step-by-step removal of the cartridge from the tape, thanks to its use, the system provided a high rate of fire. But this scheme of work required the use of its own welt cartridge with a protruding flange-flange, which is clinging to the screw groove of the gun drum. For this reason, no other type of cartridge in Spitnik weapons could be used.

Today we can safely say that the idea of ​​unifying weapons for different calibers is quite sensible. Many systems in world practice followed the same path; today, in the first quarter of the 21st century, multi-caliber weapons are experiencing real flourishing. However, in the case of Spinny models, everything was not so clear. The fact is that his first project of the ShKAS aviation machine gun was built around the already existing rifle caliber cartridge 7,62x54R with a rim, which was fully justified for the machine gun to achieve a high rate of fire. But already ShVAKi demanded from the Soviet industry the creation of fundamentally new ammunition of welted construction. In the version with the 12,7-mm machine gun, this decision was unsuccessful. This caliber was conceived as universal, it was planned to use it not only in aviation. With the already existing Degtyarevsky 12,7x108 mm chuck, which was more convenient for the store supply, even the assertiveness that was typical of Spit, was not enough to push the parallel production of the same welt cartridge 12,7x108R. Such a cartridge in the USSR was produced not for long in parallel with the production of a small series of ShVAK heavy machine guns. In the end, it was simply discontinued.


Wing ShVAK on fighter I-16 type-17


But the 20-mm version of ShVAK was waiting for a much more successful fate. At the time of the development of the aircraft cannon other 20-mm cartridges in the Soviet Union simply did not exist. As a possible option, the production of the Long Soloturn, a powerful Swiss ammunition of 20x138R caliber, was considered, under which the universal Atsleg AP-2 machine was created in KB-20, but in general, the niche of 20-mm ammunition in the USSR was not filled, which completely untied the hands creators of ShVAK air cannon.

Other negative aspects of the unification of 12,7-mm and 20-mm versions of ShVAK experts refer to the fact that the Vladimirov group, trying to preserve the unified design of the nodes of two aviation systems, was forced to level the geometric dimensions along the length of the two types of cartridges. The length of both cartridges was 147 mm, which ensured the unified design of the most labor-intensive node in the production of the system - the drum feed structure. However, if the 12,7-mm cartridge was powerful enough for its class, the new 20x99R proved to be one of the weakest ammunition 20-mm caliber among its foreign counterparts.

In the end, the motor cannon was the basis of the armament of the Soviet Yak and LaGG fighters, in the wing variant it also went to the first Il-2 attack aircraft with ammunition for 200 projectiles on the barrel. The beginning of World War II spurred both the massive production of 20-mm ShVAK air cannons and the introduction of synchronous versions of the guns, which from 1942 onwards began to appear on the Lavochkin fighters, put them on separate series of the MiG-3 fighter.

ShVAK Aviation Cannon. Soviet aces weapons

Aviamotor VK-105PF with ShVAK motor cannon


But the turret version of ShVAK could not boast of a successful fate and did not catch on in the Soviet aviation. Too heavy and bulky, it did not fit into the light turret installation of our bombers. Its use was extremely limited. The gun was mounted on a flying boat MTB-2 (ANT-44), as well as on an experienced bomber Myasishchev DB-102. Practically the only serial combat aircraft on which the turret version of ShVAK was standardized was the Pe-8 (TB-7) heavy bomber, the release of which throughout all the war years was almost single-piece. And at the very end of the war, the ShVAK cannon was also mounted on the upper turret of the Er-2 bomber.

Thus, the main consumer of aircraft ShVAK throughout the entire period of their production, was the Soviet fighter aircraft. ShVA stood on the I-153P, I-16, I-185, Yak-1, Yak-7B, LaGG-3, La-5, La-7 and Pe-3 fighters. When the I-16 fighter was discontinued, and the Il-2 attack aircraft began to rearm the new 23-mm VY aircraft gun, the release of the ShVAK wing version was almost completely curtailed. Only in 1943, 158 of such guns was launched to re-equip the Lend-Lease Hurricane, where they were installed instead of Browning's 7,7-mm machine guns. And at the end of the war the wing version of the gun again found its use, becoming the offensive armament of the twin-engine high-speed Tu-2 bomber.

At the same time, the ShVAK motor cannon, with some changes in the design of 1941-42, was mounted on light T-30 tanks (modification of T-40) instead of 12,7-mm DShK machine gun, which allowed a significant increase in the power of their fire impact on the enemy and gave the tank crews the ability to hit enemy armored vehicles (armor penetration - up to 35 mm with a sabot projectile), anti-tank guns, machine-gun nests and the enemy's manpower. A variant of the gun under the designation ShVAK-tank or TNSh-20 (tank Nudelman-Shpitalnogo) was installed serially on light tanks T-60.


Gun TNSh-20 in a light tank T-60


In May, the 1942 of the Air Force Institute came to the conclusion that the 20-mm ShVAK aviation gun works smoothly on the I-16 (in the wing), Yak-1 and LaGG-3 fighters (through the gearbox). The projectile of this gun is effective at operating on enemy aircraft, armored cars, light tanks and vehicles, and railroad tank trucks. For action on medium and heavy tanks, a ShVAK cannon projectile is not effective. In general, the ShVAK projectile in weight, and hence the effectiveness of explosive action, was inferior to the projectile of German aircraft cannons of the same caliber (the SHVAK projectile weighed 91 grams, and the German aviation cannon MG FF - 124 grams). It was also noted that the effectiveness of the actions on the goals of ShVAK was significantly inferior to the 23-mm aviation gun VY.

Comparing the Soviet ShVAK with the German aviation gun MG FF, you come to the conclusion that the German gun, which used the recoil energy of the free gate (on the ShVAK - gas outlet), had an advantage only in the weight and breaking strength of the projectiles used. In this case, the initial velocity of the projectile at the German gun was at least 220 m / s less, but the second volley for the wing of the aircraft guns was almost the same. At the same time, MG FF was lighter on 15 kg, including through the use of a shorter stem. At the same time, this advantage of German cannons was lost with the advent of the B-20 aviation cannon in the USSR.

Today, it is quite difficult to objectively evaluate the value of the 20-mm aircraft gun ShVAK. Of course, it was characterized by a certain bunch of flaws - weak ammunition with poor ballistics, operational and technological complexity, which especially at the initial stage of production led to the high cost of the gun. At the same time, the first drawback was easily compensated for by the huge ShVAK rate of fire, which reached 800 rounds per minute, and the cost reduction was due to the establishment of mass production and industry adaptation. It should be noted that in terms of the rate of fire, ShVAK had no equal among the serially produced aircraft guns of other states. True, the synchronous versions that were put on excellent Soviet fighters La-5 and La-7, depending on the mode of operation of the engine, had a lower rate of fire - 550-750 shots per minute.


Comparison of the cartridge 20x99R with other ammunition


In any case, we can say that the Shpitalny-Vladimirova air cannon was one of those iconic samples of the Red Army’s weapons that could ensure our country’s victory in the Great Patriotic War. According to the fighter pilots of those years, the power of even the relatively weak 20-mm shells of the ShVAK cannon was enough to fight any Luftwaffe aircraft. Of course, if Germany had massively appeared heavy bombers or Soviet aviation had to face in the sky with armada of American "flying fortresses", our fighters would have a hard time, but in reality nothing of the kind happened.

It is also important to remember that in the Soviet Union, alternatives to ShVAK for a long time simply did not exist. The development of a promising B-20 aviation gun designed by Mikhail Evgenievich Berezin, also created on the basis of a large-caliber machine gun and based on the same principle of operation as ShVAK, was seriously delayed due to designer's illness. For this reason, the ShVAK aircraft cannon, despite its “weakness,” remained the main armament of the Great Patriotic War fighters.

A considerable role was also played by the training of Soviet pilots, which grew during the war and made it possible to effectively use the weapons at their disposal. It is no secret that the personnel of the Red Army Air Force, who met the 22 war on June 1941, had an extremely low qualification and almost complete lack of experience in the combat use of their aircraft. The only exceptions were team cadres who managed to get past Spain, Khalkhin Gol, the winter war with Finland, but there were few such pilots. Yes, and they, basically, passed on the accumulated experience in accordance with the training "Course of combat use of fighter aircraft." Proof of this was the consumption of ammunition for aerial targets, which varied throughout the war from its first months to the last. If at the initial stage of the war, Soviet pilots often opened fire on the enemy from a distance of 300-400 meters, then already in 1942, gaining experience, from a distance of 100-150 meters, and sometimes from 50 meters. This led to an increase in shooting accuracy and a reduction in ammunition consumption. With regard to the ShVAK aviation gun, this increased the effectiveness of its projectiles. When the enemy plane turned into a colander, the smaller tensile strength of the shells of the Soviet cannon was no longer significant.


Wing of the German fighter Bf.109 after hitting 20-mm SHVAK shells


During the prewar period and the years of the Second World War, the Soviet industry produced more than 100 thousands of ShVAK aircraft cannons, which makes it one of the most massive artillery systems in stories aviation. ShVAK production was discontinued only in 1946 year. It was replaced by a more sophisticated aircraft gun B-20, which, having similar combat characteristics, was more reliable and easy.

Tactical and technical characteristics of ShVAK:
Length / Weight:
Wing variant - 1679 mm / 40 kg.
Turret version - 1726 mm / 42 kg.
Motor-gun - 2122 mm / 44,5 kg.
The stroke length of the moving parts is 185 mm.
Firing Rate - 700-800 rds / min.
The initial velocity of the projectile - 815 m / s.
Chuck - 20x99 mm R.

Information sources:
http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/shvak.html
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2018-08-10/13_1008_weapons.html
http://www.airbase.ru/alpha/rus/sh/shvak/20/shvak.html
Open source materials
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77 comments
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  1. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 11 September 2018 07: 04
    +2
    I don’t understand, ShVAK released more than 100 thousand, but why did DShK release so little? After all, the DShK was chronically lacking throughout the war, and the ground forces were left without proper cover from enemy aircraft throughout the war. Quad Maxims were useless against armored all-metal aircraft, and 25-mm and 37-mm anti-aircraft guns relied only on parts of the brigade and above. That is, at the level of regiments and battalions, the air defense was very poorly organized, the DShK was not enough, therefore, by the way, the Lend-Lease quadruple 12,7-mm machine guns mounted on the armored personnel carrier were very much appreciated by the troops. Unfortunately, they were delivered a little, only a thousand pieces.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 11 September 2018 08: 30
      +3
      Well, firstly, the DShK was difficult to manufacture. It was produced only at one plant. In addition, he required expensive alloy steels in production, which were not produced in the USSR at that time and for a long time Shpitalny could not ensure the reliability of the machine gun due to its constant breakdowns caused by the insufficient strength of its parts. A lot of reparations came from combat units for this machine gun, the soldiers complained that it got wedged after the first round. Only lend-lease supplies of special steels helped to solve this problem, but even then not completely. Only DShKM could become a more or less reliable machine gun. But even then, he also could not get rid of the "overcooking" (so far), which can be seen from those machine guns that sometimes come across in photographs from the conflict zone in Ukraine, etc. However, in fairness, I must say that the Germans in general, it was not possible to create and bring "up to standard" its large-caliber machine gun, despite the fact that an acceptable model was created by them back in 1918. A number of large-caliber machine guns appeared in the German troops at the very end of the war, but these were "ersatz", converted in an artisanal way, from aircraft machine guns, which accumulated a lot in warehouses due to their replacement on airplanes with cannons.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 11 September 2018 08: 55
        +7
        Quote: Snail N9
        reparations

        Complaints?
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 11 September 2018 09: 02
          -1
          Yes "complaints" -pardon- "reported". wink
      2. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 11 September 2018 09: 23
        0
        Quote: Snail N9
        Well, firstly, the DShK was difficult to manufacture.

        I do not think that DShK was more complicated than ShVAK. A priori aircraft weapons are more complex and more expensive than land weapons.
        Quote: Snail N9
        However, in all fairness, it must be said that the Germans in general did not manage to create and bring their heavy machine gun "to condition", despite the fact that an acceptable model was created by them back in 1918.

        The Germans did not have a special need for a heavy machine gun; instead, the Germans used the 20 mm FlaK 30/38 automatic guns. The decision is controversial, the German shell weighs 130 grams, but the rate of fire of this gun is limited by store supply of 20 rounds, and the system itself weighs 450 kg, almost like a Soviet 45-mm gun, you can’t drag it around the floors in your arms. And you can’t install it on a tank as an anti-aircraft machine gun, whereas in the USSR DShKs were installed on the IS-2 and ISU-122/152. For comparison: with 12,7 mm cartridges, a bullet weighs about 50 g, a 12,7 mm machine gun feeds on tape, usually 50 rounds in length, and the system weighs a lot lighter: DShK on a wheeled machine with a shield of 160 kg, Browning M2 on a tripod and without a shield of 60 kg, the Russian Kord weighs 50 kg on a tripod and with a tape.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 11 September 2018 09: 44
          0
          DShK was more complicated than ShVAK in terms of ensuring reliability of operation due to the high pressure in the bore, greater tension of the parts and the lack of intensive air blowing, as happens on an airplane.
          1. BAI
            BAI 11 September 2018 11: 44
            +1
            lack of intense air blowing,

            Blowing air in a motor gun?
            1. Snail N9
              Snail N9 11 September 2018 11: 51
              +3
              Yes, it is air blowing — there is a special gap between the barrel and the casing. By the way, the engine itself has special slots for blowing.
              1. Looking for
                Looking for 11 September 2018 19: 29
                -3
                Or maybe all the same blowing? Eh, you holes. But not holes.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 20
          +1
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          I do not think that DShK was more complicated than ShVAK. A priori aircraft weapons are more complex and more expensive than land weapons.

          It depends on how you do it. The same Berezin, judging by his biography, got into the design bureau from the workshop - so he made a design for the possibility of production. And the DShK leads its history from the Palace of Culture, which was being developed at a time when the technology of the product was not particularly thought of.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 12 September 2018 00: 13
            -1
            The DP machine gun is extremely simple and technologically advanced, it was quickly mastered by Soviet industry even before the start of industrialization, and during the war the production of DP did not cause much tension.
            Degtyarev the infantry was distinguished by the simplicity of manufacture - for its production, two times less piece measurements and transitions were required than for a revolver, and three times less than for a rifle. The number of technological operations was four times less than for the Maxim machine gun and three times less than for MT. Degtyarev's many years of experience as a gunsmith-practitioner and cooperation with the outstanding gunsmith V.G. Fedorov.


            The production of light machine guns, despite the difficult conditions, remained relatively stable. V.N. Novikov, Deputy People’s Commissar of Arms, wrote in his memoirs: "This machine gun did not cause much tension in the People’s Commissariat of Arms." For the second half of the 41st year, the troops received 45300 light machine guns, in the 42nd year - 172800, in the 43rd - 250200, in the 44th - 179700
            DShK was made in the likeness of DP.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 31
          +5
          By the way, the complexity of the DShK can be indirectly estimated by the price: for 1939 "Machine gun 12,7 mm (DShK) arr. 1938 with a set of spare parts"cost as much as 12000 rubles - while"45 mm anti-tank gun mod. 1937 with a set of spare parts in laying boxes"cost 14200 rubles.
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 11 September 2018 12: 38
            -2
            This is not surprising, since the DK (and then the DShK) was developed primarily as an .... "anti-tank" machine gun. wink
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 48
              +2
              Quote: Snail N9
              This is not surprising, since the DK (and then the DShK) was developed primarily as an .... "anti-tank" machine gun. wink

              ICHH, until the second half of the 30s he could well be considered them (if you do not take into account the French "silver carps").
      3. Vova Kabaev
        Vova Kabaev 12 September 2018 00: 01
        0
        Do not confuse reparations with complaints! :-)
      4. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 12 September 2018 03: 15
        -1
        The Germans "failed to create" an infantry (aviation - MG 131 - they had - and quite successful and widely used) large-caliber machine gun for the simple reason that they did not see him as necessary. request Even the TuF and the excellent captured French 1940-mm Hotchkiss machine guns, which they had in abundance after the campaign in the West of 13,2 and well-supplied with ammunition, were practically never used by the Wehrmacht in active operations. hi
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 08: 42
      +3
      In addition to ShVAK for aviation, another 12,7 machine guns of Berezin were produced, which were also not enough (remember Pokryshkin's memoirs). One fighter - at least 2 barrels (2 ShVAK or ShVAK + UBS), plus at least one UBT per Il-2 and Pe-2. It was considered that arming aircraft is more important. Dominance in the air protects its troops from enemy air strikes in every way better than a pair of DShKs per battalion.
      The Americans, yes, had the power to put 6-8 M2 per fighter and up to 12 per bomber, equip them with tanks, armored personnel carriers and give them to the infantry.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 17
      +2
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      I don’t understand, ShVAK released more than 100 thousand, but why did DShK release so little?

      I’ll tell you more - about 150 UB aviation machine guns under the same cartridge as the DShK were fired. Against 9 thousand issued DShK. belay
  2. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte 11 September 2018 08: 12
    +2
    Comparing the Soviet ShVAK with the German MG FF cannon, you come to the conclusion that the German gun, which used the recoil energy of the free shutter (for ShVAK - the gas outlet), had an advantage only in the weight and explosive strength of the shells used.

    It is strange that there is no comparison with MG151 / 20, which, with the same mass, fired 750 grams of shells per second.
    It was replaced by a more advanced B-20 aircraft gun, which, having similar combat characteristics, was more reliable and light.

    Just the reliability of the B-20 did not differ, because it used ammunition from ShVAK, and the sleeve with the edge was poorly suited for any other automation.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 11 September 2018 09: 11
      -1
      Quote: Snakebyte
      and the sleeve with the edge was poorly suited for any other automation.

      The sleeve with the edge is inconvenient with store, disk or drum power. But with tape power, weapons designers did not deliver and did not deliver any particular inconvenience. Maxim, ShKAS and PKM are evidence of this.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 09: 59
        +10
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        But with tape power, the designers didn’t deliver any inconvenience and did not deliver

        Delivers, and very large.
        Do not feed the cartridge with the edge from the tape into the chamber by asking - you must first remove it with a reverse movement, and then send it. Complicated design and weight of mechanisms. With an equal rate of fire with systems with direct feed, the speed of the moving parts should be 2 times higher (remove and send in one cycle). The load on the cartridge is growing. Indeed, for ShKAS this whole garden with a drum had to be fenced precisely because of the need to remove the cartridge back - if this was done in one jerk, at this pace the sleeve would simply break. And by the way, despite the stretching of the extraction, the tendency to unprotronation remained - I had to produce special cartridges with a steel sleeve and reinforced compression of the barrel.
        Compare ShKAS with MG-42. The rate of fire there is comparable (1800 and 1200, on the MG-45 to 1500), but due to the direct supply of a cartridge, the design of the latter is incomparably simpler, more technologically advanced and cheaper.
        1. Bormanxnumx
          Bormanxnumx 11 September 2018 12: 23
          +1
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Compare ShKAS with MG-42.

          Compare Korektney with MG-81 - also aviation, pre-war development and rate of fire up to 1600v / min
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 13: 07
            +1
            Quote: BORMAN82
            Corektney compare with MG-81

            Also feed-through feed from tape.
            How much more compact was the receiver without a drum.
        2. mmaxx
          mmaxx 10 November 2018 17: 01
          -1
          Nevertheless, my comment is not only an answer, but also a comment on the article. ShKAS used a special cartridge WITHOUT CRIMINAL, i.e., on the so-called 7,62x54R, but just 7,62x54.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 10 November 2018 18: 38
            +1
            Quote: mmaxx
            Nevertheless, my comment is not only an answer, but also a comment on the article. ShKAS used a special cartridge WITHOUT CRIMINAL, i.e., on the so-called 7,62x54R, but just 7,62x54.

            You're wrong. Take a look at least on Wikipedia.
            The machine gun was developed under the existing 7,62x54R cartridge precisely because it was considered economically unacceptable to switch to a new type of ammunition.
            It was the rim that made it necessary to remove the cartridge from the tape back instead of submitting it by asking for all the associated dances with tambourine a drum.
            Then they made 12,7 mm ShVAK from ShKAS, but this was bad - the mechanics demanded a cartridge with a rim, and the cartridge 12,7 * 108 was already accepted for the machine gun without it. Therefore, ShVAK 12,7 did not go into the series, they took Berezin's machine guns.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 11 November 2018 13: 02
              -3
              I don’t care Wikipedia. ShKAS had its own cartridge. And I saw his photo more than once.
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 11 November 2018 13: 09
                +2
                Quote: mmaxx
                And I saw his photo repeatedly

                Photo to the studio.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 11 November 2018 13: 35
                  +2
                  In general, I looked back and forth. I admit my mistake. For some reason, apparently, somewhere earlier I didn’t take the information that way.
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 10: 07
      +4
      Quote: Snakebyte
      fired 750 200 grams of shells per second

      Maybe in a minute?
      1. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte 11 September 2018 10: 46
        0
        Yes, in a minute.
  3. lucul
    lucul 11 September 2018 08: 40
    +2
    At the same time, the initial velocity of the projectile of the German gun was at least 220 m / s less.
    The MG FF was 15 kg lighter

    И

    Today, it is quite difficult to objectively evaluate the value of a 20 mm ShVAK aircraft gun. Of course, she was inherent in a certain bunch of flaws - weak ammunition with poor ballistics

    Somehow they are poorly correlated - if ShVAK had poor ballistics - then what can be said about MG FF ballistics, in which the initial projectile speed was 220 m / s !!! less ?
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 11 September 2018 10: 42
      +2
      Indeed, the ballistics of the MG FF is not fire at all in comparison with the ShVAK, and the high rate of fire should neutralize the projectile's lag in mass. It seems to me that the problem was not in the cannon, but rather in the small ammunition that our fighters carried, due to the lack of sufficiently powerful engines. With such a rate of fire, you have to save money, hence the shortest possible opening distance in order to accurately shoot down the enemy.
    2. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte 11 September 2018 10: 51
      +1
      Quote: lucul
      Somehow they are poorly correlated - if ShVAK had poor ballistics - then what can be said about MG FF ballistics, in which the initial projectile speed was 220 m / s !!! less ?

      A lightweight ShVAK shell, which also had a non-optimal aerodynamic shape, lost speed faster.
      However, they usually tried to shoot from a minimum distance, so the difference in ballistics is insignificant.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 29
      +5
      Quote: lucul
      Somehow they are poorly correlated - if ShVAK had poor ballistics - then what can be said about MG FF ballistics, in which the initial projectile speed was 220 m / s !!! less ?

      And it is necessary not only to look at the initial speed, but also to the drop in the velocity of the projectile during flight. And here ShVAK was out of competition. They didn’t even take it in air defense: at a distance of 400 m, the projectile speed dropped to 580 m / s, and at 600 m - 483 m / s.
      For comparison: ShVAK 12,7 had a bullet speed of 652 and 612 m / s at the same ranges, respectively.
      Here is what they wrote about ShVAK in the 1936 report:
      Given that the existing MG-3 fuse acts on the skin of the aircraft at final speeds of at least 300-350 m / s, and also that successful hit by aircraft can be expected at flight times not exceeding 2-2,5 seconds, it should be considered that the maximum distance of actual anti-aircraft fire for 20 mm ShVAK is 1000 m, and for 12,7 mm ShVAK it is about 1500 meters.
      For anti-aircraft defense, this distance is unsatisfactory.

      Due to the fact that the ShVAK automation was originally designed for a 12,7 mm caliber, it was necessary to use an extremely light weight shell (20 grams against the normal weight for this caliber of 91-125 grams) and a short length for using a 150 mm cartridge. As a result, the projectile received reduced ballistic qualities, leading to a rapid loss of initial velocity.
      This circumstance leads to a significant decrease in the armor penetration of a 20 mm ShVAK machine gun and to a reduction in anti-aircraft fire distances compared to a 12,7 mm machine gun
      1. maximghost
        maximghost 12 September 2018 00: 03
        +2
        Yes, you’re right, you need to look not only at the initial velocity of the projectile, but only a drop in the velocity of the projectile from a distance is also small (now we are only talking about ballistics). In order to get a more or less realistic picture, you need to get graphics that reflect flatness depending on the distance. And if the shwak’s shell will have 100 meters in the first meters than, say, VYA, then this, multiplied by the sights of that time and close-shooting, will mean that getting out of the shvak by airplane will make protianics much easier, especially when fighting against a fighter, when both protianics intensively maneuver. If we talk about shooting at relatively long distances, then here the position of the weapon is still very strong, because the horizontal reduction for wing armament begins to play a role, which makes the comparison in the accuracy of wing armament and armament located in the center section even more unobvious.
        But the fact that the air gun turned out to be bad, like an anti-aircraft gun, and the other vice versa, is good, in comparison of these guns it’s just like aviation guns, which means that the kmk is very small.
      2. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 7 November 2018 12: 51
        0
        And if you look at the same parameters for MG 151 or MG FF?
        MG 151 With a projectile mass 57g muzzle energy 26 kJ
        MG FF With a projectile mass 98g muzzle energy 28,6 kJ
        ShVAK With a projectile mass 96g muzzle energy 31 kJ
        As an aircraft weapon, ShVAK is not worse than MG FF
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte 11 September 2018 10: 58
    0
    The question of replacing ShVAK was raised as early as 1938. The new 20-mm gun was supposed to be created on the basis of the Berezin machine gun.
    The military even included UB in the TTZ of promising fighters, hoping to subsequently replace machine guns with guns. But, for a number of reasons, these works stopped, returned to them after the outbreak of the war. It was only during the war that launching a new ammunition was unrealistic; we had to adapt the weapon to the existing one.
  6. andrewkor
    andrewkor 11 September 2018 11: 09
    -1
    The abbreviation ShVAK originally referred to a 12,7 × 99R machine gun, but it turned out to be quite mediocre due to its weak cartridge. The designers saved themselves by placing a 20mm projectile in the same sleeve. All these "attempts" were associated with the original system for feeding cartridges back in ShKAS for cartridges with a welt. Apparently, it was not enough to create something on the theme of the 12,7 × 108 cartridge!
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 September 2018 12: 43
      +4
      Quote: andrewkor
      The abbreviation ShVAK originally refers to a machine gun of 12,7 × 99R caliber, but it turned out to be very mediocre due to a weak cartridge.

      And who was it who developed the KKP under the Browning patron? wink
      Just with the power of a 12,7 mm cartridge, the USSR had no problems - the monstrous 12,7x108 was originally chosen, under which they made infantry and aircraft machine guns.
      I’ll tell you more - when in the late 30s the question of the production of M2 in the USSR was considered, then everyone liked the military machine gun, except for one - a too weak cartridge. Since, according to Soviet concepts, the KKP was supposed to be able to penetrate and defeat a light BTT. smile
      Quote: andrewkor
      Apparently there wasn’t enough imagination to create anything on the theme of the 12,7 × 108 cartridge!

      Once again - ShVAK-12,7 was made under the cartridge DShK: 12,7x108. But on the ShVAK-20 it was necessary to reduce the cartridge to 20x99 - in order to fit the length of the previous cartridge and not shovel the design of the ShVAK, which was already in the series. Because any alteration of the design in those days at the best delayed the serial production, and at worst it generally canceled it, because the plant could not overpower the production of a new product.
      1. Bormanxnumx
        Bormanxnumx 11 September 2018 14: 17
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Just with the power of a 12,7-mm cartridge, the USSR had no problems - the monstrous 12,7x108 was initially chosen ...
        I’ll tell you more - when in the late 30s the question of the production of M2 in the USSR was considered, then everyone liked the military machine gun, except for one - a too weak cartridge.

        We take the period of the 30s:
        Cartridge .50 BMG with a bullet AR M1 48,8 g; 808m / s 15930j
        Cartridge 12.7x108 with a B-30 bullet 48,2 g; 820m / s 16205j
        Both cartridges entered service in 1930-31. The difference is simply "monstrous" ©
      2. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 14: 24
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Once again - ShVAK-12,7 was made under the cartridge DShK: 12,7x108

        Not under the DShK cartridge, but under your own special cartridge with a 12,7x108R rim. Because ShVAK-12,7 repeated the design of ShKAS, and there the cartridge was removed for the rim.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 September 2018 14: 51
          0
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Not under the DShK cartridge, but under your own special cartridge with a 12,7x108R rim.

          Yes, you are right - the dimensions are the same, but the cartridge for the ShVAK-12,7 had a flange.
        2. mmaxx
          mmaxx 10 November 2018 17: 03
          -2
          There was no flange at the cartridge ShKAS.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 10 November 2018 18: 41
            +1
            A screw groove is located on the stationary casing of the drum. The cartridge catches on him sleeve edge, removed from the tape and fed to the chamber
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 11 November 2018 13: 07
              -2
              When I write about the rim, I answer. The rim is on the cartridges. But on the Mosin cartridge there is a welt, a flange. Which is indicated by the letter R. So on the cartridge ShKAS did not have this flange. He was a three-line cartridge in everything, but there was no flange. So it’s more correct.
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 11 November 2018 13: 19
                +1
                Here is the tape:
                https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/kottoblog/23673101/333110/333110_600.jpg
                Here is a close-up of the cartridge. Marking "Ш" leaves no doubt - this is exactly ShKAS:
                https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/kottoblog/23673101/334571/334571_original.jpg
                In appearance, it is an ordinary Mosin cartridge with a welt. Rant does not allow pushing the cartridge forward from the link, therefore in all systems for it - starting with "Maxim" and ending with "Pecheneg" - it is removed back. But with a rate of fire of 1800 per minute, extraction in one cycle is impossible - the sleeve cannot withstand. Therefore, a drum with a screw groove was invented to make it smoother.
                1. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 11 November 2018 13: 39
                  0
                  In general, in some years there, such as the 50-60-70s, a tape was tested in which it was possible to advance the Mosinsky cartridge forward. The military was against this. Everything worked though. Either in "Kalashnikov", or in "Master-Gun" it was about it with pictures. The link was open. Accordingly, the steel on the belt was like spring steel.
                  1. Narak-zempo
                    Narak-zempo 11 November 2018 13: 43
                    0
                    Machine gun Nikitin-Sokolov 1958
  7. Blue fox
    Blue fox 11 September 2018 11: 35
    +2
    ShVAK guns were also installed on torpedo boats of the G-5 type

    Source waralbum.ru
  8. BAI
    BAI 11 September 2018 11: 41
    +1
    In 1938, more than 500 changes were made to the ShVAK cannon, but they did not get rid of all the problems. For instance:
    during operation, trigger trigger cables popped up due to poor soldering;
    reload cable jumped off;
    it took a lot of effort to press the trigger.
    In addition, due to the unreliable recoil mechanism of the barrel, the mount gradually collapsed, the gun loosened, which reduced the already low accuracy of hits.

    The following should be noted:
    All criticism of the ShVAK gun ended in 1938. No one could compare in hardware intrigues with Shpitalny. By 1941, practically all those who criticized Stalin's favorite, Air Force Commissar Ya. I. Alksnis, were alternately killed in the dungeons of the NKVD; chief of armaments of the air forces of the red army I.F. Sacrier; Head of Armaments of the Red Army I.A. Khalensky; Head of the Air Force Research Institute I.A. Owl; Air Force Chief of Staff V.K. Lavrov; Air Force Chief of Staff S. A. Mezheninov; Head of the Air Force Research and Testing Ground G.M. Shevchenko.

    The developer of the AP-20 gun, Y. Ya., Was also shot as an enemy of the people. Attleg. Repression only managed to avoid S.A. Degtyarev, but work on the DShAK was curtailed.

    Thus, by the end of the 30s competition in the field of 20-mm aircraft systems, the ShVAK gun did not remain.
    By the way - there were problems with the projectile fuse:
    Initially, the 20-mm cartridges were equipped with the highly sensitive MG-3 type instantaneous action fuse used in the ground artillery. But MG-3 sometimes gave premature projectile explosions in the gun barrel. At the end of 1936, the MG-3 was replaced by the MG-201 fuse, which had higher sensitivity and instantaneous action; the flying centrifugal fuse has been removed. But still, the MG-201 fuse did not meet the safety requirements, since it was cocked in the channel of the gun barrel.

    In 1938 (again, 1938! Some sort of mysticism was direct.) It was replaced by a more sensitive one, which worked flawlessly when meeting with the percussion plating of aircraft and the K-6 fuse, created by P. G. Schegolev, which was distinguished by its high speed. The K-6 fuse had a mechanism that ensured its loading only after the projectile left the gun barrel (at a distance of 0,3 - 0,5 m from the muzzle), which virtually eliminated cases of premature projectile rupture in the gun barrel.
  9. BAI
    BAI 11 September 2018 11: 57
    +1
    The article on faust cartridges raised the issue of price. ( in comments). Since 3 things are needed for war: money, money, and again money, the question is about the price.
    The selling price of the ShVAK gun at the time of 1939 was 35 thousand rubles. And for example, the same Oerlikon FFS in the same period cost $ 7 thousand, the same was the cost of the Danish 20-mm Madsen, which, given the then ruble-to-US dollar exchange rate of 5.3: 1, is quite comparable, despite the fact that Oerlikon is traditionally considered one of the simplest and high-tech guns. And, for example, the Italian 20-mm machine gun Scotty 20/77 "pulled" as much as $ 11 thousand.

    Another thing is that in the course of mass production by 1944, the cost of Erlikon decreased almost 5 times to $ 1658.
    There is no data on the ShVAK, but drawing an analogy with the T-34, we can assume that the price of the gun has decreased markedly.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 September 2018 15: 39
      +3
      Quote: BAI
      The selling price of the ShVAK gun at the time of 1939 was 35 thousand rubles. And for example, the same Oerlikon FFS in the same period cost $ 7 thousand, the Danish 20-mm Madsen cost the same, which is quite comparable with the ruble exchange rate against the US dollar 5.3: 1.

      The problem is that direct comparison "for money" is only valid if the level of industrial development is comparable. For example, the German 20-mm MZA "Rheinmetall" cost infinity for the USSR - because the industry could not make it. Or you can recall the price of the T-34 tank, which differed by half at different factories.
      Quote: BAI
      despite the fact that Oerlikon is traditionally considered one of the simplest and most technologically advanced guns.

      For Switzerland. smile
      The USA, with a license and the entire set of documents, spent two years to make Oerlikon simple and technological. smile
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 16: 00
        0
        And one should not forget about the cheapness of labor in the USSR in comparison with other industrialized countries.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 11 September 2018 16: 02
          +1
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          And one should not forget about the cheapness of labor in the USSR in comparison with other industrialized countries.
          Reply

          More detail you can?
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 23: 36
            -2
            I can refer to the works of Vadim Damier.
            Himself, so far, unfortunately did not read, but listened to his video lectures. It proves quite convincingly that the level of exploitation of workers in the Stalinist USSR, as in other states catching up with modernization, exceeded that in developed countries.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 12 September 2018 00: 25
              -1
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              the level of exploitation of workers in the Stalinist USSR, as in other states catching up with modernization, exceeded that in developed countries.

              Here is a discovery!
  10. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 12: 00
    +1
    Of course, the design is enchanting.
    Okay, ShKAS is a necessary measure. It was required to create a rapid-fire machine gun under an obsolete cartridge with a rim to ensure unification with infantry weapons. Because of this, dancing with a drum with phased extraction of a cartridge from a tape is a deliberately redesigned and expensive design. By the way, they did not achieve the required unification - they had to significantly change the technology for producing cartridges, make a steel sleeve, tighten the quality requirements for capsules, etc.
    But to try to drag a new large-caliber cartridge with an edge with the already existing - complex and expensive - machine gun design, with an existing 12,7x108, is something.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 September 2018 15: 03
      +2
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      But to try to drag a new large-caliber cartridge with an edge with the already existing - complex and expensive - machine gun design, with an existing 12,7x108, is something.

      And this is called "make based". There is a working design of a rapid-fire air machine gun chambered for a 7,62x54R rim cartridge. We need to make a large-caliber aircraft machine gun that could be launched into production.
      What to do? And let's take the proven design as the base! But it is chambered with a rim ... And if you make a new design of the machine gun chambered for the DShK without changes, then the work on ShKAS will have to be thrown out the window. Not only will the development drag on, it's also not a fact that the plant will be able to produce this design.
      And in the fight new machine gun design against a new cartridge defeated a new cartridge.
      Actually, the same story was repeated with the ShVAK-20: instead of taking normal ammunition and making a machine gun / cannon under it, the machine gun design in which it was necessary to trample the ammunition became primary. As a result, we got the weakest and fastest losing speed shell. But there was no need to radically change the design.
  11. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 11 September 2018 12: 41
    +1
    The advantages and disadvantages of the ShVAK gun are correctly indicated.

    Advantage: these guns were better than they would not be. Rate of fire is higher than that of counterparts.
    Disadvantages: weak ammunition, poor ballistics from where it is necessary to approach the target at close range - the projectile trajectory is steep, it does not allow to get from a long distance, which led to the need to get close to the target, which is not good when the target bomber - fighter is forced to enter the fire zone shooters.
    So much has been written about ShVAK that I don’t want to add negativity - aviation cannon weapons in WWII were so-so.
  12. bubalik
    bubalik 11 September 2018 13: 51
    +2
    Good day to all hi
    Machine guns DShK all the same how much was released request can someone tell me? Information is different everywhere ,,,

    In 1943, the production of weapons and ammunition was mainly concentrated in the central and eastern regions of the USSR. The industry for this time released (in pcs.):
    - rifles, carbines, submachine guns -
    (including 40% submachine guns) 5459861;
    - light and tank machine guns - 282938;
    - machine gun - 87569;
    - machine guns DShK - 14425;
    - anti-tank guns - 164541;
    - mortars of all calibers -
    (50-mm mortars were produced only in the 1 semester) 68790;
    - anti-aircraft guns - 9187;
    - tank guns - 21165;
    - anti-tank guns - 23239;
    - regimental guns - 2934;
    - divisional guns - 16144;
    - divisional howitzers - 4408;
    - hull and guns RVGK - 2380;
    TOTAL TOOLS - 79457;
    TOTAL TOOLS AND MORTARS - 148247.
    The ammunition supply plan for 1943 was completed on 96,8% versus 82,8% in 1942. This was quantitatively expressed in the following figures (rounded in pieces):
    - rifle, pistol and revolver cartridges - 7 billion;
    - ammunition DShK - 51,5 million;
    - cartridges of PTR - 50,0 million;
    - hand and anti-tank grenades - 50,0 million;
    - mines of all calibers - 75,5 million;
    - 45-57-mm shots - 15,0 million;
    - 76-mm shots - 26,0 million;
    - 122-mm shots - 6,5 million;
    - 152-mm shots - 3,4 million;
    - anti-aircraft shots - 15,0 million;
    - 203-mm howitzer shots - 40 thousand;
    TOTAL artthrowers - 66 million;
    TOTAL shells and mines -
    "Artillery supply in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45", Moscow-Tula, GAU publishing house, 1977, vol. 2, p. 89-91.
  13. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 11 September 2018 17: 29
    +2
    Grandfather (gunner of the naval aviation squadron of the Baltic Fleet, Finnish, WWII) said: when, for debugging, the guns were fired from an airplane on the ground from 45 mm Yak-9T guns (or D?), The aircraft rolled back tens of meters. So that the recoil of the gun on the blasted aircraft structure behind the breech was a thick layer of rubber.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 11 September 2018 23: 49
      +1
      On the Yak-9T was 37 mm NS-37. 45 mm NS-45 was placed on the Yak-9K, which was produced in a very limited series.
  14. Sergey Goncharov
    Sergey Goncharov 12 September 2018 01: 54
    +1
    Comparing the Soviet ShVAK with the German MG FF cannon, you come to the conclusion that the German gun, which used the recoil energy of the free shutter (for ShVAK, the gas outlet), had an advantage only in the weight and explosive strength of the shells used. At the same time, the initial projectile speed of the German gun was at least 220 m / s less, but the second volley for the winged aircraft guns was almost the same.

    If the author still taught materiel ... am
    The shell for the ShVAK weighed 96 g, the shell for MG FF - 90 g.
    A second volley at ShVAK (without synchronizer) - 1,28 kg, at MG FF - only 0,78 kg.
    hi
    1. Warrior Spirit
      Warrior Spirit 12 September 2018 20: 44
      -5
      Quote: Sergey Goncharov
      Comparing the Soviet ShVAK with the German MG FF cannon, you come to the conclusion that the German gun, which used the recoil energy of the free shutter (for ShVAK, the gas outlet), had an advantage only in the weight and explosive strength of the shells used. At the same time, the initial projectile speed of the German gun was at least 220 m / s less, but the second volley for the winged aircraft guns was almost the same.

      If the author still taught materiel ... am
      The shell for the ShVAK weighed 96 g, the shell for MG FF - 90 g.
      A second volley at ShVAK (without synchronizer) - 1,28 kg, at MG FF - only 0,78 kg.
      hi

      “You are confusing something.”
      1. Sergey Goncharov
        Sergey Goncharov 14 September 2018 22: 30
        0
        Source: "Development of aviation science and technology in the USSR", ch. "Aviation weapons" (the authors of the chapter - AE Nudelman (the same one) and AE Bogoraz), comparative table. 1 on page 443. hi
    2. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 7 November 2018 12: 58
      0
      Correction MG FF had several different ammunition with a weight from 98g to 115g, different initial projectile speed and different ballistics.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 13 September 2018 09: 46
    0
    Ballistics, according to the recollections of the pilots, was not bad. The trajectory was stable too. I found it and the turn goes exactly on the enemy’s plane. The German fighters were a little worse, which was offset by the more destructive effect of the ammunition. But, of course, it all depended on the pilot’s ability to shoot accurately. if you hit, then this did not bode well for the enemy.
    1. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 7 November 2018 13: 02
      0
      If by "destructive power of ammunition" you mean the strength of the minengeshos, then this 20mm caliber ammunition was created to combat aircraft that did not have armor protection, had a weak fragmentation effect. The ShVAK projectile was more effective for armored targets or for the effect on the remote control of aircraft.
  17. lucul
    lucul 16 September 2018 11: 21
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    make a shell of extremely light weight (91 grams against the normal weight for this caliber of 125-150 grams) and short length. As a result, the projectile received reduced ballistic qualities, leading to a rapid loss of initial velocity.

    Is that your explanation? !!! Lighter projectile = lower ballistic qualities !!!!
    I generally precipitated.
    Large losses in the speed of the projectile are due to the unstable trajectory of the projectile's flight - the projectile "tumbles" in the air, which increases the geometric dimensions of the body.
    The Germans completely replaced their aviation weapons (9 of 11 seemingly models), which suggests that the weapons with which they started the war turned out to be completely unsatisfactory. And here you are singing laudatory odes to him.
    Ours, over the years of the war, seems to have added only one gun and that's it.
    1. SerB60
      SerB60 18 September 2018 16: 13
      -1
      Here I would also add about the "revolver" and the three-line, which passed the Russian-Japanese, two world, civil, Spanish, Khalkhin-Gol, Finnish ... Have you forgotten anything? A small number of samples is an indicator of poverty and inferiority of science and industry. Could not find the "golden mean" in the bundle of air gun + projectile. IMHO.
  18. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 16 September 2018 12: 58
    +1
    In the memoirs of the GSS pilots of the fighters Skomorokhov and Vorozheykin, I never met any scumbags on this gun; they flew on la and yak, respectively, in the nose in the nose 2 guns from a short range from the salvo of the la and fu Luftwaffe fighters clearly defeated
    1. Sergey Goncharov
      Sergey Goncharov 16 September 2018 17: 43
      0
      A light or medium (by WWII standards) fighter that would "hold" repeated hits with 20-mm projectiles fired "from a" pistol "distance" was simply impossible technically. So the stated facts not testify neither for nor against ShVAK. And they only talk about the undoubted skill of these pilots.
  19. Forever so
    Forever so 17 September 2018 13: 37
    0
    It is interesting that it prevented the heavy turrets from releasing infantry and other units for air defense ??? Even with a weak cartridge, these SHVAKI would fit very well in air defense. There would be a prototype of memory 23-2. about which when I served the veterans only sighed, that’s how we would have such a war.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 25 November 2018 12: 10
      0
      For anti-aircraft guns, it is important to get the plane as far away from you as possible. ShVAK is a purely aircraft gun for firing at close range.
  20. lucul
    lucul 19 September 2018 20: 50
    0
    Quote: SerB60
    A small number of samples is an indicator of the poverty and disability of science and industry.

    Yeah - is that Russia still has not found a replacement for a Kalashnikov assault rifle - is this an indicator of the inferiority of science and industry ?? However .
    1. SerB60
      SerB60 20 September 2018 15: 36
      0
      It is not for nothing that I listed the wars in which the Nagans participated with the three-ruler, and how it was put to their merits. Although the gun was still changed to TT, but the rifle could not be replaced. But there is no need to distort the AK, there the caliber has changed, and there are many modifications and there are other machines, such as AN. Does not roll an example with AK.
  21. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... April 14 2020 22: 31
    0
    And who knows what the survivability of the ShVAK gun barrel was?