“Dagger” and “Vanguard” are too dangerous. The Americans will make an interceptor!

36
The Department of Defense's Promising Research Projects (DARPA) at the exhibition, dedicated to the agency’s 60th anniversary, presented the concept of a hypothetical interceptor for Russian dagger and Avant-garde Russian hypersonic complexes. The tentative name of this miracle is “Glide Breaker”.

First, let's look at a little misunderstanding, which is now being actively replicated in the Russian media. Almost all sources, it is not known, with whose light hand, they write that the interceptor is a kind of hypersonic aircraft. And in confirmation of this, they offer an illustration from a presentation on which something conditionally similar to an airplane collides with something remotely resembling a warhead.



Dagger and Vanguard are too dangerous. The Americans will make an interceptor!


The problem is that the illustration from DARPA has been misinterpreted by someone. It schematically depicts something similar to Avangard (in any case, as depicted by the multipliers of the Russian Ministry of Defense), which is knocked down by some kind of “interceptor”, similar to either a projectile, or a cut-off rocket. Therefore, be careful when you read the "analytics", in which the intended interceptor is called an "aircraft".

What can we confidently infer from the very fact of such a presentation? So far, unfortunately, a bit. But above all, we must breathe a sigh of relief: it turns out that the Americans still do not have adequate means of intercepting hypersonic aircraft, and they also quite highly appreciate the threat posed by this type weapons.

Nothing more intelligible about this presentation is impossible to say. This is not surprising: the complexity and secrecy of the topic overlap, which complicates the analysis many times.

In general, it is necessary to clearly understand that the concept is just a “rough draft”, a kind of abstract vision, which is still very far from some kind of technical implementation. Moreover, any concept can be rejected or revised if research shows that it is either incorrect, too complex to implement, or cost too much money. Therefore, the fact that the Americans submitted, while you need to be considered only as an application for obtaining appropriate funding. Although there is no doubt that they will receive it in the end.

The timing of such a project is also very difficult to clearly define. But they can make a decade, and even more. For example, take the comparable in complexity project of the American combat information management system "Aegis" (Aegis). Its development began in the 1969 year, and the first ship equipped with it was put into operation only in 1983 g. In this case, the task may be even more difficult: the development of appropriate means of destruction, and high-precision guidance tools that can ensure an interceptor hit the target, rushing at a speed of more than three kilometers per second. Given that the speed of the interceptor must also be very high, the total speed of convergence of objects may exceed five kilometers per second or more. Agree, to miss at such speeds quite easily.

The stated kinetic method of defeating hypersonic objects also raises great doubts. Although for scientists any defeat of a target with the help of a subject will be exactly kinetic, the military still have several auxiliary definitions. In particular, by kinetic they usually understand the defeat of a target by a single object (a bullet, a projectile, a nucleus, etc.) that does not have a charge and acts only through kinetic energy. Using the same warhead and, for example, shrapnel or other damaging elements, rather, will receive the designation "defeat by the method of remote undermining of the warhead" with further clarification of what it was for the warhead.

However, since we are still dealing with scientists rather than military ones, the “kinetic defeat” indicated by them may still be common in such cases with a fragmentation warhead with thousands of previously prepared destructive elements. In any case, it’s still a bit easier to believe in than a direct hit on a maneuvering target flying at a speed of 3 km / s or even higher.

Separately, it is necessary to pay attention to the fact that the goal in this case does not descend along a stable and well-calculated ballistic trajectory, but has the ability to maneuver. This means that the planned interception system will not, as before, have an opportunity to calculate in advance the trajectory and accurately deliver the antimissile system to the meeting point with a target. The speed of the interceptor will have to correspond to the speed of the “Dagger” and “Avant-garde”, it will need to be able to actively maneuver and withstand truly huge overloads.

Of course, all this is quite realizable even in the framework of modern technologies. However, none of the existing types of interceptor missiles does not yet possess all the necessary qualities, and it is very likely that a new missile (if this is, of course, a rocket) will have to be built from scratch.

The likelihood that something more exotic will be used as an interceptor is quite small. Neither electromagnetic guns, nor more classical tools are powerful enough and, moreover, will not be able to provide the necessary accuracy. It is possible to use multi-barreled anti-aircraft guns as a weapon of the last line of defense, but they can be assumed in advance to be extremely low. Rather, it is a weapon of despair, and not a line of defense from the "Dagger." As for the use of mythical aircraft, then at the moment it looks even more strange and unpromising.

Therefore, we venture to suggest that the development of "Glide Breaker" will take Americans for many years, if not a whole decade. What time it will cost them is difficult to judge, but certainly not very cheap.

The question of efficiency remains open. We must assume that neither our nor the Chinese designers will not sit idly by. So, the mentioned hypersonic weapons of the “Dagger” type can acquire more advanced homing systems, better maneuvering algorithms, and other surprises for the mythical interceptors.
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36 comments
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  1. -10
    10 September 2018 06: 28
    In any case, this is still believed a little easier than a direct hit in a maneuvering target flying at a speed of 3 km / s

    Maneuvering at a speed of 3 km / s? You fantasize terribly, at such a speed it is impossible to maneuver in the atmosphere of the earth, this will lead to the destruction of the apparatus.
    Rather, it is a weapon of despair, and not the line of defense from the "Dagger"

    The notorious "Dagger" is nothing more than an "Iskander" air launch, for the interception of which the existing means are sufficient. "Avangard", if you believe the rumors that are spreading around it, then it is clearly redundant, the US missile defense system is not capable of repelling a strike from Russian ICBMs with classic BB. Because the Americans, working on the PGS theme (the concept of which was copied in the "Vanguard") and did not consider equipping the hypersonic BB with a nuclear warhead.
    they highly appreciate the threat posed by this type of weapon.

    If they really considered this a threat, then money would already flow, and that would be a topic of discussion in Congress.
    1. +13
      10 September 2018 07: 13
      Quote: Puncher
      at such a speed it is impossible to maneuver in the atmosphere of the earth, this will lead to the destruction of the apparatus.

      We are not talking about aerobatics, but about a trajectory that differs from the standard ballistic one. Ideally, the missile trajectory should have a "miss" such that the missile defense system does not regard it as a threat immediately after launch.
      Quote: Puncher
      The notorious "Dagger" is nothing more than an Iskander air launch

      All rockets are basically the same. But even Iskander has two modifications: the quasi-ballistic missile "M" and the cruise missile "K". In addition, if we compare the performance characteristics of open sources, then they differ significantly, including weight and size. At the same time, it is quite natural that some guidance systems for these types of missiles are unified.
      Therefore, do not be silly to engage in dismissive reprints of pro-American propagandists like "The Masked Boy" who are masked by the arguments "the public immediately drew attention to the visual similarity."
      The growing popularity of Russian weapons in the world only means that neither sanctions nor the vile discrediting of new Russian developments prevent cooling the warlike fervor of the Americans who quit the strategic missile defense agreement and are trying to get out of the START agreement.
      1. -3
        10 September 2018 08: 44
        Quote: Vita VKO
        so that the missile defense system does not regard it as a threat immediately after launch

        After the SARS is notified of the launch of an ICBM, regardless of the type of BB (even with a non-nuclear warhead), this target will automatically be a threat with all the ensuing consequences and measures taken to intercept. How it flies (ballistic / quasi-ballistic) does not matter, it will be intercepted.
        Quote: Vita VKO
        Iskander has two modifications: quasi-ballistic missile "M" and cruise missile "K"

        These are completely different rockets with different engines. "Dagger" is the same 9M723, only with an air launch, and the "K" (9M728) you mentioned is an evolution of the Granat cruise missile only with a range limitation.
        The 9M723 is equipped with a solid propellant and most of the flight to the target flies by inertia, the 9M728 is equipped with a turbojet engine as on the well-known "Caliber" and therefore is capable of traveling long distances at low altitude until the "keros" ends.
        Quote: Vita VKO
        The growing popularity of Russian weapons in the world speaks only about

        that this is the favorite mantra of patriots. There is no increase in popularity; there are traditional buyers. And by the way, the popularity of Russian weapons and did not stand next to the popularity of Soviet weapons.
      2. 0
        10 September 2018 22: 07
        This is not about aerobatics, but about a trajectory different from the standard ballistic one.

        And before the advent of hypersonic gliding vehicles, there were ballistic warheads with steering surfaces and pyrotechnic devices for creating short-term thrust perpendicular to the flight vector (the so-called individually guided warheads at the terminal stage), which could maneuver a little in the atmosphere, confusing the missile defense of the near zone (with interception already in the atmosphere). So even then, the issue of deceiving interceptor missiles was relevant and largely resolved. Now hypersonic vehicles are certainly more perfect and capable of steeper maneuvers, but also much more expensive. Therefore, the need to transfer all the warheads of the strategic nuclear forces to them is, in my opinion, too costly, it will just be another drank dough and prestige from the category "but we have a wunderwaffle, but you do not have it!" Why are these super-weapons if conventional warheads will break through any missile defense shield by the method of "successive nuclear blasts in the atmosphere" - it is necessary to explain how?
    2. +7
      10 September 2018 07: 44
      Quote: Puncher
      Maneuvering at a speed of 3 km / s? You fantasize terribly, at such a speed it is impossible to maneuver in the atmosphere of the earth, this will lead to the destruction of the apparatus.

      ===========
      Oh oh ?? You can, Eugene, you can !!! It all depends on the angular velocity and, accordingly, overloads !!! If you count, then find out that nothing is impossible in this !!!
      Of course, an aircraft at such a speed cannot maneuver as intensively as a Su-shka at subsonic speeds (well, so do not!) ..... But even a change in course by several degrees (with a low angular velocity) - changes the trajectory of the aircraft, which means that the "missile defense system" will have to "calculate" the new trajectory and coordinates of the "meeting point" ...
      And then, do you think that "Vanguard" is a "fiction", and VVP, sorry for all of us, "hung spaghetti on our ears" ??? Nonsense! And you yourself perfectly understand this !!!
      Quote: Puncher
      The notorious "Dagger" is nothing more than an "Iskander" air launch, for the interception of which the existing means are sufficient.

      ==========
      Here's a weird !!!! And from what do you actually draw a similar conclusion ??? Outward resemblance ?? laughing And why then not "Point-U" ??? They are with "Dagger" - too outwardly similar?? laughing
      To intercept Iskander it is enough existing funds??? Evgeniy! Today is not April 1st! Enough to make people laugh! Iskander is an extremely DIFFICULT target to intercept! Even NATO members recognize this !!
      Quote: Puncher
      If they really considered this a threat, then money would already flow, and that would be a topic of discussion in Congress.

      And where did you get the idea that they (the states) do not allocate money for such programs and the problem is not discussed at the highest level ??? Really Trump you personally "whispered in your ear" ??? fellow
      1. -2
        10 September 2018 09: 05
        Quote: venik
        But even a change in course by several degrees (with a low angular velocity) changes the trajectory of the aircraft, which means that the "missile defense system" will have to "calculate" the new trajectory and coordinates of the "meeting point" ...

        This task is quite feasible for modern "computers", the 21st century is in the yard and "million operations per second" has long become commonplace.
        The C400 central computing complex runs on the MCST-R500 microprocessor with far from outstanding characteristics, however, according to Almaz Antey, the C400 is capable of intercepting maneuvering ballistic missile warheads and hypersonic targets.
        Quote: venik
        They are with "Dagger" - are also outwardly similar ???

        That says a lot, for example, about the type of engine, a solid propellant rocket engine.
        Quote: venik
        Iskander "is an extremely DIFFICULT target to intercept! Even NATO members recognize this !!

        And where do they admit it? In the yellow press like nashninteres? When shooting at max range, this is a classic BR, at a short range on the marching section you can change the path to mislead the enemy about the launch site, thereby reducing the likelihood of a retaliatory strike, but at the terminal section the same BR.
        Quote: venik
        And why did you get the idea that they (the states) do not allocate money for such programs and do not discuss the problem at the highest level ???

        Then that would be known. At the bottom, it is customary to describe what taxpayer funds are spent on.
        1. 0
          10 September 2018 09: 46
          Quote: Puncher
          This task is quite feasible for modern "computers", the 21st century is in the yard and "million operations per second" has long become commonplace.

          ==========
          Dear Eugene! Yes, at least TRILLION operations per second !!! In order to calculate a new trajectory of the target - you need to TRACK it !!! Those. "chip" the coordinates of the target at least (!!!) in 3 points (better, much more - the accuracy will increase) separated in space and, accordingly, in time! Since, as is known from the school course of mathematics, it is exactly 3 points spaced apart in space, this is the minimum number through which you can draw the only monotonous curve !!! And then the machine calculation of the curve, followed by the issuance of corrective commands to the interceptor missile ... Yes, let it (the machine account) take at least a trillionth of a second !!! This is not so important!
          Well, what if during this time the target changes course again? "Our song is good - start first! ".... And with each iteration the probability of a miss will grow exponentially !!!! And the 21st century has nothing to do with it !!!
          Quote: Puncher
          And where do they admit it? In the yellow press like nashninteres?

          Well, although screaming about the deployment of Iskander in the Kaliningrad region ... And at least the same "concept from DARPA" mentioned in the article !!!
          Quote: Puncher
          when it would be known. At the bottom, it is customary to describe what taxpayer funds are spent on.

          =========
          WHO knows ??? You absolutely know EVERYTHING, WHAT they are discussing there ??? Or do you think that they DO NOT know how to keep secrets there ??? What "leaks" from the discussions into their press is either NOT SECRET, or into an "organized leak" or simply "misinformation"!
          But the fact that they "began to move" speaks of MNO-O-HOM !!!
          And about "where do taxpayers' funds go" ... Well, try to find in official American sources, for example, a decoding of government subsidies (where and how much goes) ??? Aha! Right now! You don't even have to try !!!
          Eugene! Do not be naive !!! hi
          1. +1
            10 September 2018 21: 04
            Quote: venik
            And with each iteration, the probability of a miss will grow exponentially !!!! And the 21st century is somehow Nothing !!!

            Beautifully painted of course, only EM waves propagate at the speed of light, a hundred times faster, so there is no problem recording the movement of the target. I repeat, the developers of C400 do not consider it impossible to intercept hypersonic targets.
            Quote: venik
            Well, although screaming about the deployment of Iskander in the Kaliningrad region ..

            Officials (politicians, not military) expressed concern about this because they do not understand why this is necessary. No one said that there was no way to level the danger. The need to place funds for interception, and hence unforeseen expenses, is the reason for their statements.
            Quote: venik
            Who knows ???

            The US military budget is traditionally costed and all major funding projects are known. This is not a secret. The US military paints every cent they want to spend before Congress.
            Quote: venik
            But the fact that they "began to move" speaks of MNO-O-HOM !!!

            These are just pictures, not a stir. Stirring is the formed TTZ and the announced competition.
            1. 0
              14 October 2018 20: 18
              Hole puncher. A small insertion: for air defense systems, it is not necessary to find the target location, but to calculate the meeting point with the known speed of the intercepting missile and the target. So the meeting point is not miscalculated, because the trajectory of the target changes unknownly, and even at such hyper speeds it’s even a big problem ... Only nuclear weapons or some kind of cataclysm on a possible broad course of hyper-armament ...
    3. +4
      10 September 2018 08: 14
      The notorious "Dagger" is nothing more than an "Iskander" air launch, for the interception of which the existing means are enough

      From where information, link please, only not OBS.
      1. +3
        10 September 2018 08: 56
        Quote: Ros 56
        From where information, link please, only not OBS.

        Excuse me, what do you want about this? MO press release?
        Quote: venik
        and GDP, sorry to all of us "hung spaghetti on our ears" ???

        This is a religious question. Here, and to insult the feelings of believers near.
        1. -2
          10 September 2018 08: 58
          Drive past directly to Germany. And take a closer look at the roads.
        2. -2
          10 September 2018 10: 00
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Quote: venik
          and GDP, sorry to all of us "hung spaghetti on our ears" ???
          This is a religious question. Here, and to insult the feelings of believers near.

          ============
          And you DO NOT take it out of context !!!
          In the "original" it was like this: "...Do you think that "Vanguard" is a "fiction", and VVP, sorry to all of us, "hung spaghetti on our ears" ??? Nonsense! And you yourself perfectly understand this !!!..."
          Catch the difference?? hi
          1. +3
            10 September 2018 10: 54
            Quote: venik
            Do you catch the difference ???

            No.
            There are people who believe in Putin. There are people who do not believe him. The facts of both are zero. Because a cunning plan, information warfare and secrecy. This is with regard to weapons.
            Fortunately, Mr. Putin has spoken out on other issues where truth is easier to establish.
            1. +2
              10 September 2018 20: 47
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              There are people who believe in Putin. There are people who do not believe him. The facts of both are zero.

              C'mon, here is an example of his lies:
              We took our troops to a distance of 1500 kilometers from the Finnish-Russian border. And they still haven’t changed anything, the way it is.

              Said Putin 01.07.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX, a lie pure water.
              1. 0
                10 September 2018 21: 18
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Fortunately, Mr. Putin has spoken out on other issues where truth is easier to establish.
    4. -2
      10 September 2018 09: 10
      Your incompetence just rolls over. But it is not clear why it is so clearly shown to everyone. Want to show off your erudition in this scientific field.
    5. -2
      10 September 2018 10: 19
      Puncher, do you take private lessons in writing your material from E. Damantsev? In general, the article is about the state of morale of the mattresses at the moment, and the technical information is just pictures, like that DARPA illustration.
  2. -1
    10 September 2018 07: 24
    It would be necessary for the United States to consult with Peter, he would help (probably) because he was already intercepting Russian satellites.
    1. -1
      10 September 2018 10: 23
      For two, after the third glass! .. They will definitely succeed! If only there were enough pickles, pickled cabbage and smoked salts! A rye pink is enough for one to sniff!
      1. -1
        10 September 2018 10: 26
        And where dumplings for vodka, a mess. request laughing
        1. -2
          10 September 2018 10: 37
          And who said that under vodka? Maybe they in Fascistton will confer under a viscar? And then what dumplings are there? At best, seafood.
  3. +1
    10 September 2018 08: 10
    Recently, this topic was discussed, what, again? Well, let the striped ones train the next money to cut, hold the flag in their hands.
    1. 0
      10 September 2018 10: 24
      So they are practicing different techniques! ..
      1. -1
        10 September 2018 14: 54
        So they are practicing different techniques! ..

        little alternative universe
        Imagine that we told the United States that our submarine atomic drone Status with warhead 100 Mt., did not regularly reboot at the entrance to Norfolk, and you cannot trample or destroy it - FELLOW (!)
        The United States will wait a month, maybe 2 of ours some kind of weapons transport with "friend or foe" equipment
        2 month of the U.S. Navy WITHOUT: 5 aircraft carriers, 25 destroyers, 10 cruisers, 4 UDC, 4 tank docks, 4 frigates, 2 minesweepers, 6 nuclear submarines Los Angeles, 4 nuclear submarines Virginia
        * at the time of the channel to dig into the Atlantic - Russians are so slow
  4. -3
    10 September 2018 09: 54
    And, our satellites and Amerikos, the Chinese, and we have long shot down in hypersound, so the only thing is that the missile defense could adequately maneuver at altitude and wet it harder.

    And in cartoons it all works out, but in real shootings everyone has to show lies ....

    And arrest the spies from Roskosmos
    1. 0
      10 September 2018 10: 30
      In space, satellites move along stable trajectories almost in a vacuum. But the Dagger and Vanguard will move in the atmosphere with increasing density, and even waving their tail! Do not run too hard after!
      1. 0
        10 September 2018 11: 55
        There is a project for a kamikaze space drone - with the ability to ram ICBMs on the active site, up to the third stage, at altitudes of 200 kilometers and a radius of 1800 kilometers, the first stage is a dual-mode turbojet engine with the ability to disperse the vehicle to 30 Machs, to the ICBM launch point, and then go to mini liquid propellant rocket engines and orientation engines, the apparatus will have an active GSN, IR and TV camera input, missile defense satellites will carry out target acquisition with proportional approach, they will give launch coordinates to the nearest UAV, ICBM defeat with a kinetic strike.
        1. -1
          11 September 2018 22: 09
          The theoretical speed limit for a low-orbit interceptor is 26,8M. Otherwise, it will fly away to the highly elliptical HZ.
  5. +1
    10 September 2018 13: 16
    The leaders of the advanced development of the US Armed Forces company 20 Century Fox and Miramax.
  6. +1
    10 September 2018 15: 32
    Folk wisdom: "Everything flows and changes"! Now the desire for the military is to achieve a speed of 5 M ... Something there is talking about 10 M ("Dagger") ... 20 M ("Vanguard"); and "dreamers" -engineers are already "coughing" speeds of 20-40 M and this is not the limit! Now we determine the "reasonable" launch distance of the "hyper. Missile" (depending on the speed of the "retaliation weapon" and the enemy's air defense systems ...), calculate the "approach" time ... What will be the reaction time of the enemy? One can imagine the situation: when, in order to intercept a hypersonic missile, it will be necessary to launch interceptor missiles immediately after the discovery of the "hyper. Missile" launch? Then, it turns out that such a missile defense system will be vulnerable! It will be possible with the help of simple means to simulate the launches of "hyper. Missiles" in order to reset the enemy's missile defense arsenal! And strike ...
  7. 0
    11 September 2018 11: 48
    And there is nothing to comment on!
  8. 0
    11 September 2018 21: 46
    Quote: Puncher

    The US military budget is traditionally costed and all major funding projects are known. This is not a secret. The US military paints every cent they want to spend before Congress.

    Nope. stop There is such a "mulka" - the so-called. "black" bully DoD budget line items for which Congressmen (other than members of the House Armed Forces Committees) know only the amounts and the public code of the program. Another thing is that the Yankees do not abuse this - using "rarely and aptly." The creation of the U-2, A-12, SR-71 and F-117 was funded under just such programs. hi
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. -1
    11 September 2018 22: 05
    Quote: Puncher
    The US military budget is traditionally costed and all major funding projects are known. This is not a secret. The US military paints every cent they want to spend before Congress.

    Nope. stop There is such a "mulka" - the so-called. "black" bully DoD programs, for which Congressmen (other than members of House Armed Forces Committees) know only amounts and public program codes. Another thing is that the Yankees do not abuse it - they use "rarely and aptly". But the U-2, A-12, SR-71 and F-117 were created within the framework of such programs. hi
  11. 0
    2 November 2018 21: 55
    I sit and read komenty)))))) I’m shocked here ---- EXPERTS = SPECIALISTS --- I don’t understand why - the RF Ministry of Defense-- takes such stupid specialists to work that they are spread like walnuts on the site ???? yes ...... question
  12. -1
    13 November 2018 09: 40
    Again a yellow article.
    Well, the interceptors are slowly developing, ash stump. Show pictures.
    10 daggers. - this is not serious.
    And the Vanguard or Poplar - so what's the difference, at the final stage of the warhead, everyone has hypersonic sounds like ... not to collect not for us, nor them.

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