Military Review

Wide open the gates of hell. How terror flooded Russia

265



100 years ago, 5 September 1918, was issued a decree of the Council of People's Commissars on the "red terror". F.E. Dzerzhinsky, the initiator and leader of the terror, defined the red terror as "intimidation, arrest and destruction of the enemies of the revolution according to the principle of their class affiliation".

The death penalty in Russia was abolished on October 26 on 1917 by the decision of the Second All-Russian Congress of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies. 22 On November 1917, the Council of People’s Commissars issued the Decree on Court No. 1. By this decree, workers 'and peasants' revolutionary tribunals were created to fight against the counter-revolutionary forces. December 7 The All-Russian Emergency Commission to Combat Counter-Revolution and Sabotage was established at the Council of People’s Commissars. With the beginning of the Civil War, the Cheka, the body of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” to protect the state security of the RSFSR, “the governing body of the struggle against counterrevolution throughout the country”, receives emergency powers and will become the main instrument for realizing the Red Terror. 1917 June 13, the decree on the restoration of the death penalty. From that moment on, the execution could be applied according to the verdicts of the revolutionary tribunals. 1918 June 21, the first convicted revolutionary tribunal to death was Admiral A. Schastny.

The Red Terror was declared 2 of September 1918 of the year by Y. Sverdlov in the address of the Central Executive Committee as a response to the attempt on Lenin's 30 of August, as well as the assassination on the same day of the chairman of the Petrograd Cheka Uritzky. September 3 Izvestia newspaper publishes the words of Dzerzhinsky: “Let the working class crush the counter-revolution hydra with mass terror! Let the enemies of the working class know that every detainee with weapons in the hands will be shot on the spot, that everyone who dares for the slightest propaganda against the Soviet power will be immediately arrested and imprisoned in a concentration camp! ”

On September 5, the Council of People’s Commissars issued a decree - Ordinance on the “Red Terror”. Its text stated: “It is necessary to ensure the Soviet Republic from class enemies by isolating them in concentration camps; all persons who are attached to the White Guard organizations, conspiracies and insurrections are subject to execution; it is necessary to publish the names of all those executed, as well as the reasons for applying this measure to them. ” The chief security officer, Felix Dzerzhinsky, greeted this decree with joy: “The laws of 3 and 5 of September finally gave us legal rights to what some party comrades objected so far to finish immediately, without asking anyone for permission , with counterrevolutionary bastard ". A major rally of red terror was the shooting in Petrograd of more than 500 representatives of the former "elite" (officials, including ministers, professors). Total official data Cheka, all in Petrograd during the Red Terror were shot about 800 people.

It is worth remembering that terror was not an invention of the Bolsheviks. This is a common policy tool during major shocks. Thus, terror was used during the revolution and the civil war in England, the revolution in France, and the American Civil War. Terror satellite of most wars in stories humanity up to the present day. In particular, during the modern war in Syria and Iraq, Sunnis, Shiites and other warring parties massively cut out opponents. Russia was not an exception in the years of the Civil War. Terror was used not only by the Bolsheviks (red), and their opponents, the whites, as well as various gangsters - “green”, nationalists, Muslim radicals - Basmachis, and invaders.

Terror was associated with three major factors. Firstly, during any great upheaval, war, revolution, unrest, a large amount of various human garbage is brought to the surface. In normal times, the renegades of the human race, gangsters, murderers, sadists, maniacs try to hide their brutal inclinations, are isolated from society in prisons and camps, ordinary people are protected by law enforcement agencies. In 1917, there was a geopolitical, state disaster. Old Russia died, the state was destroyed along with all the old punitive-repressive and law enforcement system. The criminals broke free. A real criminal revolution began, an ordinary satellite of any troubles and big war. In Soviet Russia, the formation of a new law enforcement system began. But the militia was in its infancy, did not have the previous databases (card files were destroyed), the staff did not have the relevant experience and skills.

In addition, part of the criminals, innate sadistic murderers infiltrated the police, the Cheka, the army. The same situation was with the whites. They received authority, power, and used it to satisfy their dark inclinations. At the same time, they could hide behind noble goals — the struggle against counterrevolution (or commissars).

Secondly, the red terror was extreme, forced, response measure to protect the socialist fatherland from white, green, nationalists, Basmachis, Western and Eastern invaders. It was impossible to restore the unity of Russia, to preserve it within the framework of the new Soviet project and to defeat internal and external enemies only with a “good word”; we also needed a “Colt”, that is, strength and determination to use it. Thus, the red terror was justified by the need to recreate the Russian (Soviet) civilization, the new development project and the new state. It was in the interests of the overwhelming majority of the population.

Third, you need to clearly and always remember that it was a terrible disaster, unrest. There was a collapse of the old development project, the Russian Romanovs. The end has come not only of the old state, but of the development project. Breakdown of Russian civilization. All hell seals were torn down. 1917 year led to the fact that all the accumulated over the centuries in Russia, the contradictions broke out. Chaos reigned, came the kingdom of horror and inferno. There was a psychocrash. Previously, quite peaceful people, peasants, workers, artisans, students, teachers took up arms and killed, destroyed not only armed opponents, but class enemies.

A funnel formed in the inferno (hell). And she swallowed up millions of people. Therefore, it is necessary to forget the tales of liberals and monarchists about the terrible and bloodthirsty red commissioners and the white, Christian knights who fought for “Great Russia”. Everything is much deeper. There were no innocents. Terror was used by all. It was agony, the disintegration of old Russia. Everybody was killed, hung up and robbed — the Red Guards, the White Guards, the Cossacks, the western “peacekeepers”, the nationalists, and the peasant detachments. Violence reigned over the vast expanses of Russia. The war of all against all, without rules, without mercy.

Therefore, in the expanses of Russia, such horrors occurred that they tried to hide in the USSR, and are still afraid to describe in cinema. It was hell. So, the American witness of the war, General Knox wrote:

“In Blagoveshchensk, officers were found with gramophone needles under their nails, eyes torn out, with traces of nails on their shoulders in the place of an epaulette. Their appearance was terrible ... ”White officers taken prisoner were not spared: shoulder straps were cut out, nails were punched instead of asterisks, cockades were burned out on their forehead, skin was stripped off in narrow stripes in the form of lampas. Wounded officers were slowly burned in the fire. Therefore, seeing the inevitable captivity, the volunteer officers tried to commit suicide or asked their comrades to shoot them in the name of friendship.

During the Reds offensive in southern Russia: in Taganrog, Sievers’s people threw 50 cunkers and officers tied hand and foot into a hot blast furnace. In Yevpatoriya, several hundred officers, after tortures related, were thrown into the sea. Similar atrocities in a wave swept across Crimea: Sevastopol, Yalta, Alushta, Simferopol, etc. Terrible atrocities were happening on red navy. On the hydrocruiser "Romania" they tortured and shot. At Truvor, they brutally mocked the victims: they cut their ears, nose, lips, genitals, sometimes their hands, and then threw them into the water. The Almaz cruiser housed a naval military tribunal: officers were thrown into the oven, and in winter put naked on deck and watered with water until they turned into blocks of ice. This was not done by the fascists, but by ordinary Russian people. At the same time, sailors atrocities, for example, in the Baltic Sea, immediately after February, before the October Revolution.

But the opponents of the Reds were no better. The myth of the white knights, officer honor and nobility of the White Guards was created by “democratic” publicists. When seizing localities, whites also “cleaned” them of the reds, their supporters (or whom they recorded in those). Ataman Krasnov noted in his memoirs: “They (Kolchak's - Author.) Did not spread to the Bolsheviks, but at the same time the population, especially the“ lower working classes ”, the generally accepted legal norms and humanitarian customs. To kill or torture a Bolshevik was not considered a sin. Now it is impossible to establish how many massacres of civilians have forever gone into oblivion, leaving no documentary traces, because in an atmosphere of chaos and powerlessness, ordinary people had no one to ask for protection ... "


Admiral Kolchak himself wrote in one of the letters: “... You understand that it is impossible to get rid of it. Civil war must be merciless. I order the heads of the units to shoot all the captured communists. Or we shoot them, or they us. So it was in England in the time of the Scarlet and White Rose, so it must inevitably be with us ... "

It is not surprising that whites made such an “order” in their rear that the population howled, mass resistance began. In response, whites even more “screwed up the nuts”, punitive detachments hung, shot, floored entire villages, did not spare even pregnant women, and beat them to miscarriages. A real peasant war began, which was one of the most important reasons for the defeat of the White Army.

Here is a short sketch of this hell from the memories of the famous Russian monarchist V. Shulgin: “In one hut they hung up by the hands ... commission ... a fire was laid out under it. And they slowly roasted ... a person ... And around the drunken gang of "monarchists" ... howled "God Save the Tsar."

Again, this was done not by Hitlerite Sonderkommandos and not by brigades of red internationalists (Latvians, Hungarians or Chinese), but by “your nobility”. It seems to be Russian to the very roots. The lieutenants Golitsyn and cornets Obolensky. This is the nightmare of the fratricidal slaughter, the inferno world, which was established in Russia and which was succeeded in suppressing at the cost of very large blood. A mental epidemic of cruelty, bloodthirsty and destruction flooded Russia.

The common people were no better than politicized reds and whites. Thus, in the south of Russia, popular groups, whole bandit formations, armies, alternately fighting with the red, then with the white acted. They did not recognize any authority, they had no ideology. Therefore, when the Denikinists found theirs or the red ones that fell into the paws of the “green” ones, the picture was terrible: bodies with severed limbs, broken bones, burned and decapitated. The rebel peasants burned or frozen the captured Red Army or white prisoners. They organized demonstrative executions of the Bolsheviks — with hammering people, sawing or scraping the skin.

Denikin wrote: “... everything that has accumulated over the years, for centuries in embittered hearts against unloved power, against inequality of classes, against personal offenses and one's own broken life — someone has all poured out with infinite cruelty ... First of all - the vast hatred that is poured everywhere, both towards people and towards ideas. Hatred of everything that was socially or mentally above the crowd, which bore the slightest trace of wealth. Even to inanimate objects - signs of a certain culture, alien or inaccessible to the crowd. In this feeling one could hear the accumulated bitterness, the bitterness of the three years of war directly for centuries ... ”.

And the "glorious" Don Cossacks? In Denikin’s memoirs, they do not look like “soldiers of Holy Russia,” but as a gang of marauders. They declared themselves “separate people”, declared independence, and half of the population of the Don Region (Russians, but not Cossacks) deprived part of their civil rights. In the battles against the Reds, the Russians plundered Russian villages like the hordes of Mamai. They robbed even their “own” peasants on the Don. For them, the rest of Russia was a stranger. Not only robbed, but shot villages with guns, raped and killed. Interestingly, it is this passion for mining, greed was one of the reasons for the defeat of the White Army. While the whites were fighting and advancing, the Cossacks plundered. Like, do not let the Russians free themselves, we are "another people", we are on our own.

Terror staged and invaders. The British, who landed in Arkhangelsk and Murmansk, massed the captured Red Army soldiers into captivity, beat them with butts, threw them into prisons and concentration camps, overworking them, depleting them to death. Fed half starving, forced to join the Slavic-British counter-revolutionary corps. It was the British in August 1918 created the first concentration camp on the island of Mudyug in the White Sea ("island of death" - the death rate reached 30%). In the Far East, the Japanese committed atrocities. The terror was staged by the Ukrainian separatists.

Thus, we see confusion, civil slaughter. Psychocrash, the complete disintegration of the old Russian society. Hence the hell that prevailed in Russia. However, only the Bolsheviks were able to restore order, although at the cost of much blood. They offered people a new development project in the interests of the majority of the people, created a new statehood and restored order.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year
How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War
How to create Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people"
How the red took Kiev
Victory of the Red Army on the Don
Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign
How Kornilov stormed Ekaterinodar
Destined to die? Died with honor!
People against power
How Drozdovtsy broke through on the Don
How drozdovtsy stormed Rostov
Don Republic Ataman Krasnov
West helped the Bolsheviks?
Why did the West support both red and white?
Why do Czechoslovak murderers and looters erect monuments in Russia
Second Kuban campaign
Eastern Front Education
Why did they kill the Russian tsar?
Rise of the Left Social Revolutionaries and its weirdness
How white occupied the capital of Kuban
Bloody battle for Yekaterinodar
Kappelevtsy take Kazan
"For the Soviets without the Bolsheviks"
The landing of the British in Arkhangelsk. Formation of the Northern Front
The heroic campaign of the Taman army
Why tried to kill Lenin
Soviet republic turns into a military camp
265 comments
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 6 September 2018 05: 53
    -35
    the red terror was extreme, forced reciprocal protection measure socialist Fatherland from white, green, nationalists, basmachi, western and eastern interventionists.

    No, this appearance of the whites was a RESPONSE measure for the power seized by the losers, from which they defended their Fatherland.
    All hell seals were torn down. 1917 year led to the fact that all the accumulated over the centuries in Russia, the contradictions broke out. Chaos reigned, came the kingdom of horror and inferno.
    That's right. But it came only AFTER the THIEF. Before her she was flaying and shooting indiscriminately hostages on a class basis, there were no slaughterhouses.
    Previously, quite peaceful people, peasants, workers, artisans, students, teachers took up arms and killed, destroyed not only armed opponents, but class enemies.

    The same is true. But WHO called for a fight and destruction class enemies even before the thief, all the more after? Neither the tsarist government nor the whites had such "class" slogans AT ALL.

    It was impossible to incite hatred and point to "enemies", provoking a massacre, it was necessary to work in the chosen CA and seek and find compromises for ALL citizens of Russia.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 6 September 2018 06: 50
      +30
      No, this appearance of the whites was a RESPONSE measure for the power seized by the losers, from which they defended their Fatherland.
      1. Nick_R
        Nick_R 6 September 2018 09: 36
        -15
        Thus, the Red Terror was justified by the need to recreate Russian (Soviet) civilization, a new development project and a new state. This was in the interests of the vast majority of the population. 

        Lies and more lies! The Bolsheviks proclaimed the dictatorship of the PROLETARIAT, and terror was only an instrument for maintaining power. Moreover, the number of the proletariat was about 5% of the population of Russia, and in the highest governing bodies of the Bolshevik soviets there were actually only two proletarians, and the bulk were "professional" revolutionaries, i.e. political loafers and loafers.
        Half of the top leadership of the Bolsheviks in general were Jews, the main sponsors of the October coup. And the terror was declared a Jew by Sverdlov in response to the murder by some Jews of other Jews of the Bolsheviks. And for the most part, the Russian people suffered from all this, above all that very majority - ordinary peasants.
        Therefore, there can be no excuse for red terror. This is an animal murder and intimidation of often defenseless people in order to maintain power, that is, their enslavement.
        Under the threat of weapons, the peasants were driven into the Red Army, they took the bread they grew, drove them out of their own homes, condemned them to starvation and death.
        1. businessv
          businessv 6 September 2018 15: 47
          +1
          Quote: Nick_R
          Moreover, the number of the proletariat was about 5% of the population of Russia,

          Colleague, do not confuse people! The number of the RUNNING proletariat was less than 5% of its (proletariat) total number, and not of the population of Russia! With regard to the assessment of the results and the necessity of the "red terror", countless copies were broken, but no one succeeded in reaching at least the opinion of all the participants in the dispute that was in any way suitable. The only thing that all parties agree on is that there should be no terror at all as an instrument of establishing order in the state.
          1. Sotskiy
            Sotskiy 7 September 2018 07: 56
            +11
            Quote: businessv
            The only thing that all parties agree on is that terror, as an instrument for establishing order in the state, should not exist at all.

            K / F "DMB":
            -Do you see the gopher?
            -not
            -And it is! lol

            Terror was, Terror is, Terror will always be, as a tool of retention any authorities.
            Propaganda and ideology (which, as it were, does not exist) of the current system since the 90s through the media, through the film industry, theaters, sculptures, tablets, images, symbols, demeanor, is this not the same terror in the name of retaining power? Only now (we are now a "civilized" society) the impact occurs not by the method of brute physical force, but in a more sophisticated way - through the formatting of consciousness, which ultimately still affects the very physiology of the test subjects. Only the form of terror has changed, but it is like a chameleon, has not gone anywhere, but has taken shape and color according to the modern realities of the time.
            So which form of terror is the dominant ideology preferable for today's modern society?
            As in the Donbass, through physical killing, but not defeated by the mind of an opponent, or through a monotonous, slow murder of consciousness designed for generations, with reformatting of life guidelines?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 7 September 2018 09: 22
              +4
              Quote: Sovetskiy
              The propaganda and ideology (which, as it were) of the current system since the 90s

              The propaganda and ideology of the current system did not begin from the beginning of the 90s, but earlier - during the perestroika period (and even much earlier), and this was the ideology of discrediting our history, the degeneration of the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945.
              At the same time, the very methods of such discrediting of our history under the Bolshevik regime and during the perestroika period (the power of the CPSU) had a very large similarity, and these methods united the fact that not only Russian (Soviet) history, but also the term itself - "Russian history" was abolished under some, and abolished under others - "Soviet history"
              The term "Russian history" is a counter-revolutionary term, so spoke a non-tongue-tied proletarian agitator, it was the official position of the Soviet party "historical" science. "This was the vile Bolshevik ideology - to mock Russian heroes and saints.
              In the perestroika years, history repeated itself, the same characters (their descendants) began to smash and destroy Soviet heroes.
              1. Sweetheart
                Sweetheart 9 September 2018 12: 20
                +2
                Quote: bober1982
                Moreover, the very methods of such discrediting our history under the Bolshevik government

                Oh well...
                What is this?
                There were a total of more than a million invaders in Russia — 280 thousands of Austro-German bayonets and about 850 thousands of British, American, French and Japanese. The joint attempt of the White Guard armies and their foreign allies to make Russian “Thermidor” cost the Russian people, even according to incomplete data, very expensive: about 8 millions killed, tortured in concentration camps who died from wounds, hunger and epidemics. According to experts, the material losses of the country amounted to an astronomical figure - 50 billion gold rubles ...

                More information here:

                link to topwar.ru
                It is necessary to understand that you and your kind do not want to see it point blank? Whose mill do you pour dirty water on?
        2. Alber
          Alber 6 September 2018 19: 11
          -10
          Quote: Nick_R
          Thus, the Red Terror was justified by the need to recreate Russian (Soviet) civilization, a new development project and a new state. This was in the interests of the vast majority of the population. 

          Lies and more lies! The Bolsheviks proclaimed the dictatorship of the PROLETARIAT, and terror was only an instrument for maintaining power. Moreover, the number of the proletariat was about 5% of the population of Russia, and in the highest governing bodies of the Bolshevik soviets there were actually only two proletarians, and the bulk were "professional" revolutionaries, i.e. political loafers and loafers.
          Half of the top leadership of the Bolsheviks in general were Jews, the main sponsors of the October coup. And the terror was declared a Jew by Sverdlov in response to the murder by some Jews of other Jews of the Bolsheviks. And for the most part, the Russian people suffered from all this, above all that very majority - ordinary peasants.
          Therefore, there can be no excuse for red terror. This is an animal murder and intimidation of often defenseless people in order to maintain power, that is, their enslavement.
          Under the threat of weapons, the peasants were driven into the Red Army, they took the bread they grew, drove them out of their own homes, condemned them to starvation and death.

          It was the "scrapping of Russian civilization" by world Zionism
    2. Claymore
      Claymore 6 September 2018 07: 09
      +25
      Quote: Olgovich
      the appearance of whites was a RESPONSE to the power seized by the losers, the Bolsheviks

      Only the power was "seized" by the Soviets, not the Bolsheviks. And it was generally about the validity of the terror, and not about the time of the appearance of the white movement.

      from which they defended their homeland

      Yes, they defended their homeland, part of which were their privileges and the right to live at the expense of others.

      But it came only AFTER the THIEF. Before her she was flaying and shooting indiscriminately hostages on a class basis, there weren’t any slaughter

      Before her, life expectancy was 32 years, and half of those born did not live up to 20 years.

      Neither the tsarist government nor the whites had such "class" slogans AT ALL

      What kind of "such"? Those whose essence is the elimination of class division and the receipt of benefits for work?

      It was impossible to incite hatred and point to "enemies", provoking carnage

      Why, then, did the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie incite hatred, point out enemies, persecute these enemies and set up slaughter?

      it was necessary to work in the chosen CSS and to seek and find compromises for ALL citizens of Russia

      But the founder refused to do this, as a result of which she first lost the quorum, then tried to usurp power, after which she was dispersed by the anarchists, and in the end she was drowned by Kolchak. )))
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 6 September 2018 09: 24
        -14
        Quote: Claymore
        Only the power was "seized" by the Soviets, not the Bolsheviks.

        The Bolsheviks seized power by the BOR and usurped it by breaking up the US too, although on October 26, 1917 they themselves called themselves TEMPORARY power-Before CSS.
        Quote: Claymore
        But it was all about the validity of terror, and not about the time of the appearance of the white movement.

        Read the article? Terror is justified ... by the appearance of whites! But the white ones themselves became just a spontaneous, compelled ANSWER to the coup already realized. Before the White Thief, like gr. there was no war.
        Quote: Claymore
        Yes, they defended their homeland, of which their privileges were a part.

        They defended their Fatherland and their entire people, of which they were part of the liars-invaders of power.
        Quote: Claymore
        the right to live at the expense of others.

        What kind of "alien"? Officers, civil servants, engineers, workers, students, cadets received salaries, allowances, scholarships, peasants and merchants sold their goods. And when they began to live at their own expense under the next government, they ate, dressed, for some reason, much worse than in 1913 right up to the 1950s.
        Quote: Claymore
        Before her, life expectancy was 32 years, and half of those born did not live up to 20 years.

        Under tsarism, infant mortality was less than French than twice, but under the next rulers exceeded the French in 1933 and 1980 FIVE times! This is "development"!
        Quote: Claymore
        What kind of "such"? Those whose essence is the elimination of class division and the receipt of benefits for work?

        NOBODY in Russia called for the destruction of the hostile classes and their representatives, except for the Communists
        Quote: Claymore
        Why, then, did the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie incite hatred, point out enemies, persecute these enemies and set up slaughter?

        belay everything happened only in the ANSWER. Before the Bolsheviks, no slaughter, no gr. there was no war. Because before their power everyone tried to find compromise, and not enemies, that's gr. there was no war.
        Quote: Claymore
        And the founder refused to do this,

        US only did this.
        Quote: Claymore
        lost quorum

        You this nonsense show it written by ichi in the Decree on the overclocking of the US. For some reason, he gave DIFFERENT arguments, instead of such "obvious". Was you stupider?
        Quote: Claymore
        after which it was dispersed by the anarchists,

        fool
        Quote: Claymore
        and in the end was drowned by Kolchak.

        Why didn’t they like school?
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 09: 57
          +18
          Hello, Andrey.
          You will not be bothered to cite sources of information.
          Under tsarism, infant mortality was less than two times faster than French, but under the next rulers it was five times higher than French in 1933 and 1980!

          I suspect that this is not your research, but copying someone’s reasoning from the Internet. Let's see the source, let's figure it out. It may turn out that the person who wrote this manipulated the numbers. I can even imagine how to do it.
          Thanks in advance
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 6 September 2018 10: 09
            -5
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            Hello, Andrey.

            Hello Timur.
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            You will not be bothered to cite sources of information.

            not difficult:
            :
            1. Kurkin P.I. Mortality of infants. M., 1925.S. 18
            3 Medovikov P.S. Causes of child mortality. Petrograd, 1916.S. 30-31
            4 - Tezyakov I.I. Materials on the study of child mortality in the Saratov province from 1897 to 1901. Saratov, 1904. P. 78-79
            5-Ershov S. Experience of the comparative demographic characteristics of the Russian and Tatar nationalities. St. Petersburg, 1888; Grohav D.E. Social significance, causes of child mortality and the fight against it. M., 1912; Hubert V.O. The current state of the issue of child mortality in Russia and the fight against it. Journal of the Russian Society for the Protection of Public Health. 1911. No. 9-10
            6 Kurkin P.I. Fertility and mortality in the capitalist states of Europe. M., 1938.S. 34-35
            7 - Infant mortality in Russia for the period 1927-1958 taken from: Andreev E.M., Darsky L.E., Kharkov T. L. Demographic history of Russia: 1927-1959. M., 1998.S. 164-165
            8 - Sifman R.I. On the reasons for the decline in child mortality during the Great Patriotic War. Life Span: Analysis and Modeling. M., 1979. S. 50-60; Aminova RJ. Reducing the morbidity and mortality of children in Kazan during the years of World War II. Kazan medical collection. Kazan, 1947
            9 - Zakharov SV The Second World War as a turning point of infant mortality decline in Russia. // Sante et mortalite des enfants en Europe: Inegalites sociales d'hier et d'aujourd'hui. Chaire Quetelet 1994. Ed. par Masuy-Stroobant G., Gourbin C. et Buekens P. Academia-Bruylant / L'Harmattan, Louvain-la-Neuve, 1996. S. 325-328
            10 - Infant mortality in Russia for 1959 is calculated on the basis of statistical forms. For the period 1960-2000. Demographic Yearbook of Russia. Statistical Digest. M., 2001.S. 190
            11 - European countries data from 1960 taken from Recent demographic developments in Europe 2001
            12 - Sakamoto-Momiyama M. Seasonality and mortality. M., 1980.S. 70-80
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 10: 13
              +6
              Thank. And did you learn all this? Honor and praise. Now I want to do the same.
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 11: 39
                +28
                Andrew, look. After a thorough analysis, I can operate with more information.
                But what immediately caught my eye.
                First, I take away my words about the fact that you studied it. The simplest search for the books you have indicated in bulk gives a bunch of links to online articles where this list appears unchanged. That is, it is clear that you read these articles, not the books themselves.
                And most importantly, this article never compares the mortality of France and the USSR in these years.
                Okay, do it yourself
                We take the infant mortality of the USSR - France in 1980.
                I use
                Demographic Yearbook of Russia. Statistical Digest. M., 2001.S. 190
                и
                Recent Demographic Developments in France

                In the USSR, 48 infants under one year old died. - 500 per thousand born
                For France, the source does not have an exact figure! There is only a graph that shows that in 1980, mortality up to one year was 10 children per 1000 births.
                The difference is 2,2 times! What five are we talking about? But I can explain where. The one who wrote the article did not take mortality up to a year, because this figure is not generally accepted for Europe! It takes natal mortality. That is, mortality from birth to 28 days of life. And this figure in the region of 5,8 was in 1980 in France. In the USSR, however, I did not find data on this indicator for 1980, found for 1979 - urban population natal mortality of 10,5 children, rural - 5,4 children per 1000 births. Average 8 children. 8 / 5,8 = 1,4 times, all the more so not 5 times!

                You can, of course, say that all the same, they say then RI and the USSR are equivalent in relation to France. - within the deuce coefficient. BUT:
                1) If we take other countries, it changes, France gives just a convenient picture.
                2) All RI data is only the European part of Russia, try to find data on the empire to begin with, the accounting was not conducted properly.
                3) If we take a period, not a specific year, then everything is not at all rosy. For the post-war USSR and France, and before perestroika, the numbers always lie in the range 2,3–2,4.
                For RI and France
                I use the "Proceedings of the Central Statistical Committee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for 1889"
                European Russia - 1867-1881 (period of 14 years) - died before the age of 13 children
                France - 1875-1882 (period of 7 years) - died before the year of 1 children
                We equalize clumsily the periods 14/7 = 2 * 1 = 252 million. Let 908, taking into account the dynamics of sanitation in a later time period.
                The difference in the period is 13,76 / 2,75 = 5 times. It becomes very sad.

                And you can at least read the article to which the links led. And to see that despite the severity of the first decades for the USSR, mortality from 259,6 in 1909 fell to 205 in 1927 and to 92 in 1946.

                And you can see that in France in 1996, mortality up to a year per 1000 is 4,76 (4,3 in 2000), and in the Russian Federation in 2000 - 15,33. The difference is 15,33 / 4,76 = 3,22 times.
                Bad things, right?

                PS So this is also I quickly walked the tops, and if I go deeper, I think in general the absurdity about "five times" will become clear
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 6 September 2018 13: 06
                  -13
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  PS So this is also I quickly walked the tops, and if I go deeper, I think in general the absurdity about "five times" will become clear

                  The analysis was made not "on top", with ridiculous reservations and tolerances, but by the Institute of Demography;http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0125/analit02.php
                  For clarity, the data are summarized in graphs, from where the numbers are and taken:

                  There is also a schedule for the next time period, including 70-90 years
                  A terrible lag (FIVE times!) Of the USSR from France

                  PS The years of already built socialism -30s are especially touching: in the USSR-300 deaths against the background of 60 deaths in France (five times).
                  Mortality is 6 times higher than in the US, 2 times higher than in Hungary, even in Romania, one and a half times lower!
                  So the USSR did not reach the indicator of the gap between RI and France (less than two).
                  Moreover, I note that mortality in the Republic of Ingushetia REDUCED all the time, and there were no such wild jumps of the opposite growth (from 200 to 300), as in the USSR in 30g, even in the war.
                  Accordingly, the forecast would be clearly better.
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  First, the take away your words

                  Yes, I didn’t take it ... lol
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 13: 38
                    +20
                    I thought the conversation would be substantive, but as usual.
                    There is also a schedule for the next time period, including 70-90 years
                    A terrible lag (FIVE times!) Of the USSR from France

                    Show me the five times difference in 1980 what you said. Of course, I understand that the second Excel schedule that you didn’t cite was terribly nagging, but even there you can see the ratio of 22 to 10

                    Particularly touching are the years of already built socialism -30s: In the USSR, 300 deaths against 60 deaths in France (five times)

                    Enough to reduce all speculation to only one decade in the history of the state. But somehow strange, in the history of one country you take the most favorable period, and in the history of another - the most unfavorable.

                    And why did you decide to omit the information from the article that even in the hungry years, the proportion of one-year-old children among the deceased was still decreasing (32 - 37% - 34 - 30%).

                    So the USSR did not reach the indicator of the gap between RI and France (less than two).

                    Do you have data on child mortality in the Russian Empire? Source please.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 6 September 2018 14: 44
                      -12
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Show me the five times difference in 1980 what you said

                      22/5
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Enough to reduce all speculation to only one decade in the history of the state. But somehow strange, in the history of one country you take the most favorable period, and in the history of another - the most unfavorable.

                      You are confusing something: the 30s are considered the happiest over the years of that power: you at least ask anyone! And you call him the most unfavorable request
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And why did you decide to omit the information from the article that even in the hungry years, the proportion of one-year-old children among the deceased was still decreasing (32 - 37% - 34 - 30%).

                      Maybe I should reprint the whole article: is there another information there? request
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Do you have data on child mortality in the Russian Empire? Source please.

                      see list ist.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 6 September 2018 14: 52
                        +9
                        And mortality in the French colonies is taken into account ???
                      2. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 15: 22
                        +14
                        22/5

                        No.

                        Or do you want to say that on this chart you saw 22/5?
                        Here's a closer look


                        For France, I have drawn lines for you on purpose, so as not to bustle. And where is there 5?
                        Moreover, the source is directly indicated to you
                        Recent Demographic Developments in France

                        find and look - 10 people per 1000
                        Verdict - about 5 times - a lie
                        You are confusing something: the 30s are considered the happiest years of that power: you ask anyone at least! And you call him the most unfavorable

                        Who are considered? What kind of research is this? Let's not engage in chatter - we are serious people, without emotions and "readings" we must approach history. A simple question for you (you advised me to ask at least someone, I decided from you, is it possible) - the happiest 30s? Yes or no?
                        Maybe I should reprint the whole article: is there another information there?

                        What for? It was only about the fact that you pull out convenient data.
                        see list ist.

                        I looked. This list contains no data on infant mortality in the Russian Empire.
                      3. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 16 November 2018 15: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        You are confusing something: the 30s are considered the happiest years of that power: you ask anyone at least! And you call him the most unfavorable

                        Forgive me for interfering in your argument, but your impudence goes wild. The best years of the 30s were real, but which ones? And this is 38-39 years. And they would go on, but ... the air smelled of war and owls. right gone .., no, not to reduce living standards, but to strengthen discipline, increase the number of working hours in a week, etc.
                        In your desire to defraud the Sov. Power do not go to petty lies and juggling facts. At the dusk of life, nothing prevents being honest if dishonesty is not absorbed in mother's milk.
                    2. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 6 September 2018 14: 53
                      -15
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      But somehow strange, in the history of one country you take the most favorable period, and in the history of another - the most unfavorable.


                      And who is to blame for the fact that the Soviet period was unfavorable for our country?
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 15: 29
                        +13
                        And who is to blame for the fact that the Soviet period was unfavorable for our country?

                        The taste and color of all markers are different.
                        I just want to find out for myself (I have lived to see gray hair, but I don’t know) - what are the criteria for auspiciousness. And then suddenly all my life I did not correctly perceive reality?
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 7 September 2018 08: 31
                      -12
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      No.

                      Yes.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Verdict - about 5 times - a lie

                      T. liar, I recall that I have stated:
                      Under tsarism, infant mortality was less than two times faster than French, but under the next rulers it was five times higher than French in 1933 and 1980!

                      Nobody disputes about tsarism and for 33 years, 80 years (even with your wrong point of 80 g) ALSO confirms that the USSR did not catch up with the RI (in the ratio under consideration).
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Who are considered?

                      Those who put advantages to you
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      A simple question for you (you advised anyone to ask anyone, I decided you can) - the 30th happiest years? Yes or no?

                      belay"at least someone" - from your plusovschikov, witnesses of the sect. And you, by the way, do not agree with the party, which declared that even the starving poor have become "well-off people" and the population "is growing by" Finland "(from prosperity) in the 30s?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It was only about what you pull out comfortable data.

                      FACTS shown. And the data convenient for you is simply NOT in nature. Everywhere. Mortality in 33g is higher than in 1900. This is an indictment and a sentence of power. Forever.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      This list contains no data on infant mortality in the Russian Empire.

                      You are inattentive.
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 7 September 2018 10: 12
                        +11
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        No.
                        Yes

                        Andrey, this is already absurd. You speak white in black. There was a cycle of cartoons for adults - "A Baba Yaga against". Every conversation with you reminds me of this cartoon.
                        T. liar, I recall that I have stated:
                        Under tsarism, infant mortality was less than two times faster than the French, but under the next rulers it exceeded the French in 1933 and 1980 FIVE times!

                        You did not write about 1980 and the fivefold difference? Nobody made you write this. Only 1933 would have written, who was in the way?
                        Nobody disputes about tsarism and for 33 years, 80 years (even with your wrong point of 80 g) ALSO confirms that the USSR did not catch up with the RI (in the ratio under consideration).

                        1) About 33 does not dispute, this was the case and I do not cross out the moments of my story just because they do not give a picture of paradise.
                        2) Show what will be the number on the vertical axis (5, 10) when correct point. Take me away, it's so simple - insert the same picture with your lines.
                        3) For the sake of interest, let's look at the pictures with charts for different periods and analyze (otherwise, somehow you grabbed onto two "convenient years"). For the period 1901-1916, the graphs of both countries under consideration are almost "parallel", there is no convergence, the attitude does not change. Take a period of 15 years from 1948 to 1963. You can see the difference. In the first case, the state did very little (only, basically, declared) to eradicate the problem - a low level of socialization. In the second, a high level of socialization.
                        Do you need numbers so much where the difference will be less than in RI? I'll make it easy for you, using your own method - choose the "correct years". For example, let's take 1965 - 28/26 = 1,08 - are you satisfied?
                        Not to mention the fact that data on radiation sources cannot be considered at all - there are no data on radiation! All statistics were conducted in the European part of the Republic of Ingushetia (and not always even in 51 provinces, the figure varies for different polls from 30 to 51). Without the rest of the data, there’s nothing to talk about! But if we extrapolate that in the European part in 1913 there were 1 thousand patients per doctor, and 6,4 thousand in the Caucasus (9,4 times behind), in Siberia - 1,5 thousand (10,2 times lag), in Central Asia - 1,6 (!) thousand (26 times lag). - then you can figure out what a more real number of child deaths looms.

                        And you, by the way, do not agree with the party, which declared that even the starving poor have become "well-off people" and the population "is growing by" Finland "(from prosperity) in the 30s?

                        Does it seem like I agree? No, I don’t agree. That's why I'm a "vile skeptic" laughing
                        FACTS shown. And the data convenient for you is simply NOT in nature.

                        I have their darkness)) The above 1,08 of them, a very convenient figure, do not find))
                        You are inattentive.

                        Maybe. I beg you to help me in this situation. It will help if you bring a scan from the books you have listed, where there will be statistics on the Russian Empire. Okay, I understand that you haven’t seen these books in my eyes, so any other literary source with data on the Republic of Ingushetia will do. Let's even make it simpler - no need to scan - just the name of the book, where to download or watch online, and the page.
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 7 September 2018 15: 07
                      -11
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Andrey, this is absurd. You speak black white.

                      This is an absurd statement.

                      For everything else: it is impossible to choose your phrases and answer: the answer "runs away" somewhere down the page: "lost" the ready answer

                      And, perhaps, it is not necessary either: I see no reason to REPEAT the same and waste time.

                      In short: amid savagery with an infant mortality that has been spared antibiotics , there was a general abortion (the first in the world!), alcoholization and the popularization of the people.
                      The result is the Russian Cross.

                      Here is this figure - and remember - as a symbol of "achievements" yes
                  2. free
                    free 7 September 2018 07: 23
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    PS So this is also I quickly walked the tops, and if I go deeper, I think in general the absurdity about "five times" will become clear

                    The analysis was made not "on top", with ridiculous reservations and tolerances, but by the Institute of Demography;http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0125/analit02.php
                    For clarity, the data are summarized in graphs, from where the numbers are and taken:

                    There is also a schedule for the next time period, including 70-90 years
                    A terrible lag (FIVE times!) Of the USSR from France

                    PS The years of already built socialism -30s are especially touching: in the USSR-300 deaths against the background of 60 deaths in France (five times).
                    Mortality is 6 times higher than in the US, 2 times higher than in Hungary, even in Romania, one and a half times lower!
                    So the USSR did not reach the indicator of the gap between RI and France (less than two).
                    Moreover, I note that mortality in the Republic of Ingushetia REDUCED all the time, and there were no such wild jumps of the opposite growth (from 200 to 300), as in the USSR in 30g, even in the war.
                    Accordingly, the forecast would be clearly better.
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    First, the take away your words

                    Yes, I didn’t take it ... lol

                    Reflecting my friend! In vain, you are doomed anyway by the very course of history.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 7 September 2018 10: 13
                      -8
                      Quote: free
                      Reflecting my friend! .
                      belay fool
                      Quote: free
                      you are doomed anyway by the very course of history.

                      Doomed or not, life will tell (and you always predicted poorly lol), and she has erased you for a long time ... hi
                2. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 6 September 2018 14: 50
                  +4
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  European Russia - 1867-1881 (period of 14 years) - died before the age of 13 children
                  France - 1875-1882 (period of 7 years) - died before the year of 1 children
                  We equalize clumsily the periods 14/7 = 2 * 1 = 252 million. Let 908, taking into account the dynamics of sanitation in a later time period.
                  The difference in the period is 13,76 / 2,75 = 5 times. It becomes very sad.


                  But nothing that there were many more children in Russia than in France ??
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 15: 28
                    +10
                    Hooray! Of course, why! Well done, really. I was all afraid that this comment would appear before Olgovich wrote his answer. I really wanted to see if the person in general analyzes the incoming information or not, he will notice and make a comment or not. And now I understand why it is very difficult to communicate with Andrei.
                    Any other points in my comment?
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 6 September 2018 16: 15
                      +12
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I really wanted to see if the person in general analyzes the incoming information or not, he will notice and make a comment or not.

                      What are you talking about? Olgovich and figures are two incompatible things. He always has 2 + 2 = N (where N is exactly as much as necessary, so that the horror system seems even worse!) laughing
                    2. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 6 September 2018 16: 35
                      -6
                      Cleverly you))) When you were caught twitching, they turned on "and this is me on purpose, I'm checking." Dexterously-deftly)))
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 6 September 2018 16: 51
                        +7
                        It is clear that such moments cause a natural and deserved distrust. I understand that I cannot prove my words in any way. You can look at the messages from my last weeks, this is not the first time that I have resorted to manipulation to mirror data manipulation to produce the desired image. And after that I always say what and how I did. Incidentally, I was also disappointed that with a dozen of the set pluses, none of the pluses also set out to analyze what was written. Such a psychology - if what is written coincides with the opinion, it becomes "true". This is bad. To your question about the fact that there were more children, I can even say the exact number of births for two countries, I'm used to collecting information when preparing for an answer. Moreover, I can say that the fact that I use data on mortality up to a year is also wrong. You just have to operate with the same values ​​as your opponents. I think it is more correct to look at mortality under 5 years. If mortality under 1 year old more shows the level of development of obstetrics and education of the population in the country, then mortality under 5 years can already serve as an estimated indicator of the standard of living in general. But that's my opinion. What do you think on this issue?
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 6 September 2018 15: 52
                    +2
                    And how many children were in the French colonies? Was it born? Was dying?
              2. Alber
                Alber 6 September 2018 19: 53
                -7
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Thank. And did you learn all this? Honor and praise. Now I want to do the same.

                Have you forgotten the directive of the executioner of the Russian people, Sverdlov Yankel Moishevich? On the total extermination of the Cossacks! with children, women and the elderly ...
                1. Alber
                  Alber 6 September 2018 21: 29
                  -5
                  Quote: Alber
                  Have you forgotten the directive of the executioner of the Russian people, Sverdlov Yankel Moishevich? On the total extermination of the Cossacks! with children, women and the elderly ...

                  )) Hmm ... Zaminusili Zionists! True eyes hurts!
                  1. Saburov
                    Saburov 7 September 2018 22: 56
                    +9
                    Quote: Alber
                    )) Hmm ... Zaminusili Zionists! True eyes hurts!


                    BUT? So what is it? Are the Jews to blame for everything?

                    The myth about "Jewish Bolsheviks" was spread into the civil society specifically to try to win over the people who already support the Bolsheviks on the basis of Great Russian chauvinism.
                    Among the many so-called "Russian nationalists", monarchists and neo-Nazis (in fact, allies of liberalism), the Great October Socialist Revolution is considered to be "Jewish" and called the Bolsheviks "Jew Bolsheviks."
                    Moreover, they use two deliberately false theses:

                    1) The majority in the Soviet authorities during the period of revolution, civil war, NEP and early Stalin (or even later) were Jews (as we will see later - this is not true);

                    2) All Jews, by definition, are Jews, and not a single Jew can be a Jew (which is also a lie and a perversion of facts)
                    Some "nationalists" lack of logic leads to madness.
                    With the “Theory of the Jewish Conspiracy” they are trying to explain all the real and fabricated troubles of Russia. However, they do not refer to statistics, but to rigged ducks or simply the fruits of a sick imagination.

                    Lenin (Ulyanov) Vladimir Ilyich, whom many anti-communists love to call the "Jewish Form." As evidence, they usually cite the “Lenin family tree” (for example, http://rus-sky.com/history/library/lenin.htm), the authenticity of which has never been proved by anyone, and even if this tree is correct, the proof Hebrew (and even more so Judaism) Lenin, it is not.
                    On the father: grandfather Great Russia, grandmother - Great Russian, possibly with Kalmyk ancestors; by mother: grandmother - half-German, half-Swedish; grandfather - 1 version: baptized Jew (not a Jew!) Alexander (Israel) Form; 2 version: Russified German Alexander Dmitrievich Blank of the Orthodox merchant family.
                    Lenin was not a “Jewish mother”, since his mother was not a purebred Jew. In the lists below, Lenin will be regarded as Great Russian.

                    Stalin (Dzhugashvili) Joseph Vissarionovich. Father is Ossetian, mother is Georgian. In the lists, Stalin passes as Ossetians. If anyone who wants to consider him a Georgian is your right. This will not affect the number of Jews in the Soviet leadership. )))
                    Stalin himself has nothing to do with the Jews. The surname “Dzhugashvili” is NOT translated as “the son of a Jew”. "Jew" in Georgian - "abraeli". For some Georgians, “Djuga” means “Ossetians,” but in fact the word is ancient, and in Georgian, or rather, in ancient Georgian, means “steel”, “damask steel”.
                    Various theories in the style of "Stalin's father - Przhevalsky" are not considered.

                    Lunacharsky Anatoly Vasilievich was born in 1875 in Poltava, in the family of a major official Alexander Ivanovich Antonov. Patronymic and surname were received by Lunacharsky from his stepfather Vasily Fedorovich Lunacharsky who adopted him. Nationality is Great Russia.

                    Well, it's enough just to look at first the composition of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) - RCP (b) - VKP (b), where there is no smell of any "majority" of Jews. (Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) - RCP (b) - VKP (b)
                    The lists are divided into Great Russians, Little Russians and Belarusians, and in the final count they are summed up and recorded as Russians. Whom this does not suit - they can be counted separately).
                    "History of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks). Short Course. Gospolitizdat, 1945." Handbook of the History of the CPSU and the Soviet Union 1898-1965 "" History of the International Communist Movement, 2016 ", See: Kennan G. The Sisson Documents // Journal of Modern History. Vol. XXVIII, 1956, p. 148, The German-Bolshevik Conspiracy. War Information Series. No. 20. October 1918. Issued by the Committee on Public Information. Washington, 1918., Declaration of the RSDLP (Bolsheviks) faction, announced at a meeting of the Constituent Assembly January 5 (18), 1918 V. I. Lenin., Revolution and Civil War in Russia: 1917-1923. Encyclopedia in 4 volumes, Decrees of the Soviet Power. Volumes 1,2,4,5,6,11,12,15, XNUMX, F. Dan. On the history of the last days of the Provisional Government. "
                    So the Russian People made the Revolution! And in order to prevent this and to play on ignorance and chauvinism, our "gentlemen" invented tales about Jewish Bolsheviks, Freemasons and German spies (based on Sisson's documents).

                    Sisson documents, a set of several dozen documents allegedly proving that the Bolshevik leadership consisted of direct agents of Germany, managed by directives of the German General Staff. Acquired at the end of 1917 of the year by the special envoy of the US President in Russia Edgar Sisson for 25 thousand dollars and published in Washington in 1918. To date, archivist historians have proven that Sisson’s documents are entirely fake and fabricated by Polish writer and journalist Ferdinand Ossendowski.

                    PS Ignorance is the worst of vices.
                2. Saburov
                  Saburov 7 September 2018 20: 38
                  +6
                  Quote: Alber
                  Have you forgotten the directive of the executioner of the Russian people, Sverdlov Yankel Moishevich? On the total extermination of the Cossacks! with children, women and the elderly ...


                  Photo document directive in the studio! Or at least a date and number. I will look in the archive myself.

                  PS When will this total ignorance end ... Of course, damned Jews, Bolsheviks, the State Department and aliens are to blame for everything ... this is a clinic!
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 9 September 2018 18: 32
                    -3
                    Lenin did not have a drop of Slavic blood in the Jews.
                    1. Saburov
                      Saburov 10 September 2018 03: 44
                      +4
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      Lenin did not have a drop of Slavic blood in the Jews.


                      Shiz mowing our ranks mercilessly!

                      Lenin's father I.N. Ulyanov (son of a Russian serf), mother M.A. Blank (of Swedish-German descent), and son is a Jew? Make friends with your head.

                      PS Ignorance is the worst of vices!
            2. Saburov
              Saburov 7 September 2018 13: 45
              +6
              Quote: Olgovich
              not difficult:


              Bravo Olgovich! You have burned out on your ignorance once again! You have not read these sources and even have no idea what is written there. You, as always, took this nonsense from the next repaired site. Let's see: (http://www.ateismy.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=665:-1917-1917&catid=37:statistika&Itemid=128), oops! You are even too lazy to change the links to the sources. Are you not ashamed to lie to Olgovich like that? You understand that people who are related to history and archives will bring you out instantly. At least tell me what is written on page 18 PI Kurkin. Infant mortality? You cannot, because you have not read it and are unlikely to read it. Since this is Narkomizdat in 1925 and it is not digitized. In general, your monarchy "positive numbers have nothing to do with reality.

              Quote: Olgovich
              Under tsarism, infant mortality outpaced the French one by less than two times, but under the next rulers it exceeded the French one in 1933 and 1980 by FIVE times! This is "development"!


              Aren't you tired of talking nonsense? You at least dropped in to the same Kurkin, whom you "bring".


              PS In general, this is a diagnosis of Olgovich. Ignorance is the worst of vices! History is taught in archives, not in monarchy tales.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 7 September 2018 14: 20
                -12
                Yes, you burned. Olgovich did not claim that he watched these works, do not distort. He claimed that these works contained information that was present in a revised form in the article to which he referred.
                But what is your incomprehensible scans for? What are you trying to refute in this way ???
                1. Saburov
                  Saburov 7 September 2018 15: 43
                  +9
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  Yes, you burned. Olgovich did not claim that he watched these works, do not distort. He claimed that these works contained information that was present in a revised form in the article to which he referred.
                  But what is your incomprehensible scans for? What are you trying to refute in this way ???


                  It turns out interesting! How can one give links to a source when you have no idea what is written there? Are you all so gullible? Or do you care what they pour into your ears? Talking about history without knowing it at all?
                  1. karabas86
                    karabas86 8 September 2018 22: 48
                    +3
                    As this character drew attention to the spit on history and truth, the main thing is to throw at the fan, and there it will turn out.
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 10 September 2018 13: 30
                    -3
                    Why "you have no idea"? Olgovich read the article - written on the basis of these sources.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 7 September 2018 15: 19
                -8
                Quote: Saburov
                Bravo Olgovich! You slept on your ignorance again! You have not read these sources, and you have no idea what is written there. You as always took this nonsense from the next king-site

                Article and sources from an article of the Site INSTITUTE OF DEMOGRAPHY.
                ITS refute it, amateur! yes

                To begin, figure out WHAT there was a conversation about and WHAT you brought. lol
                1. Saburov
                  Saburov 7 September 2018 15: 39
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  An article and sources from an article on the Website of the DEMOGRAPHY INSTITUTE.
                  ITS refute it, amateur!


                  Please link to the article and I will easily refute it. It’s not difficult for me, unlike you, everything is at hand.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 8 September 2018 06: 15
                    -8
                    Quote: Saburov
                    Please link to the article and I will easily refute it. It’s not difficult for me, unlike you, everything is at hand.

                    The above is given. There is a list of the primary sources on the basis of which the article was executed.

                    Refute! fool lol
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 8 September 2018 19: 20
                      +7
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Quote: Saburov
                      Please link to the article and I will easily refute it. It’s not difficult for me, unlike you, everything is at hand.
                      The above is given. There is a list of the primary sources on the basis of which the article was executed.

                      Refute!

                      Mr. liar and manipulator of facts, the bibliography you cited, of incomprehensible etymology and the link to the "article of the website of the INSTITUTE OF DEMOGRAPHY" (c) you mentioned are two big differences! But you, mister sissy, apparently, "in the bastard" pay attention to such insignificant little things. laughing
                    2. Saburov
                      Saburov 8 September 2018 23: 27
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The above is given. There is a list of the primary sources on the basis of which the article was executed.


                      Olgovich, have you already turned on the rear, or you don’t remember what you were talking about?

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Article and sources from an article on the Website of the INSTITUTE OF DEMOGRAPHY


                      Or this article is not on the demography site, which is most likely true. Or you are absolutely incompetent that you can’t even provide a link to an Internet article.

                      If we proceed from your "opus", or rather from someone else's, yet another monarchy "bestseller" about the "bloody" gebnya and "dying" peasants by hundreds of millions of Jews from the Bolsheviks. Or rather.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Infant mortality in Russia for the 1927-1958 period is taken from: Andreev E.M., Darsky L.E., Kharkov T. L. The demographic history of Russia: 1927-1959. M., 1998. C. 164-165


                      So what do we see? Something that does not fit like that with the "bloody" gebnya?


                      PS "We must at all costs set ourselves the task of updating our state apparatus: firstly, to study, secondly, to study, and thirdly, to study and then check that science does not remain a dead letter or fashionable phrase ... "V.I. Lenin.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 10 September 2018 13: 32
                        -3
                        And why "does not fit with the bloody gebney," explain? What's wrong with this scan?
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 6 September 2018 14: 22
          +16
          Quote: Olgovich
          The Bolsheviks seized power by the Thief and usurped it by breaking up the US, too, although on 26 October 1917 they themselves called themselves TEMPORARY power-TO US.

          The Bolsheviks essentially "raised power from the ground," which no one dared to take. The provisional government was "temporary", since I could not be responsible for anything and did not want to.
          The collapse of the state system and the country as a whole began with the so-called. The February Revolution, when the liberals there wanted to "play democracy." And this is against the backdrop of an ongoing war that has depleted both material and human resources.
          And it's just ridiculous to talk about some kind of "usurpation of power" when NOBODY wanted to take responsibility for the country and its future upon themselves. The Bolsheviks took power, and began to build their system and their country.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 6 September 2018 14: 54
            -7
            Why, the Constituent Assembly had to take power and it decided to do it. Therefore, the Bolsheviks dispersed it
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 6 September 2018 20: 31
              +14
              Quote: Gopnik
              Why, the Constituent Assembly had to take power and it decided to do it. Therefore, the Bolsheviks dispersed it

              Your Constituent Assembly is as incomprehensible and muddy as the Provisional Government was.
              The country began to collapse not only in power, but also in industry, agriculture, and transport. There was no time to arrange meetings and talking rooms. The Bolsheviks undertook to rectify the situation directly on the ground, with or without fellow travelers. But everyone who understood that the country had to be pulled out of the deepest crisis (primarily the political one) followed the Bolsheviks.
              In the event of a threat of military opposition, former soldiers and officers of the RI army were recruited into the ranks of the newly formed Red Army. Some followed the Bolsheviks, some remained on the sidelines, and some began to emigrate abroad. And the last of the rest began to fight on the side of the opponents of Soviet power. It was then that the mass terror began on both sides, where the officers who were trying to remain neutral were literally called upon by force by both opposing sides. With hostages, running from one camp to another. All this is beautifully described by A. Tolstoy in the novel "Walking through the agony".
          2. sunzhenets
            sunzhenets 8 September 2018 11: 03
            +7
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            The Bolsheviks essentially "raised power from the ground," which no one dared to take. The provisional government was "temporary", since I could not be responsible for anything and did not want to.

            I would add - the Provisional Government was self-appointed, therefore, illegal. But it could not be responsible for something because it had no real power.
        3. Claymore
          Claymore 6 September 2018 18: 34
          +12
          Quote: Olgovich
          Seized power by a thief

          Uncle Olgovich, you fool ?

          How can one seize power by revolution - i.e. rapid qualitative changes of a progressive nature?

          Bolsheviks

          What Bolsheviks, if the new bodies of power (Soviets, formed in 1905) were elected, multi-party and included a fair amount of non-party?

          and usurped it by dispersal of the US too

          The founding committee was "dispersed" by the phrase "the guard was tired", which was pronounced by a member of the Anarchist Party.
          This phrase was uttered at the moment when the founder who lost the quorum unsuccessfully (due to the inability to agree) tried to self-designate as the highest public authority - i.e. while trying to usurp power.

          Read the article? Terror is justified ... by the appearance of whites! But the white ones themselves became just a spontaneous, compelled ANSWER to the coup already realized

          I read - terror is justified by the outbreak of white terror.

          And the whites, whose backbone was a group that carried out the February coup in the interests of the bourgeoisie, became "just" a response to a "coup" committed in the interests of the absolute majority of the population - in the interests of the workers and peasants.

          Defended their Fatherland and all their people, of which they were part of the liars-invaders of power

          Fatherland is a combination of political, cultural and social environment. This is a political system - i.e. power hierarchy + specific rules governing social life within the boundaries of a certain territory.

          The homeland of whites was a system that allowed whites to parasitize in most of society, and the people "protected" by them "defended" not as a people threatened by something, but as a resource floating away from the hands - as a slave, obliged to provide the master with a comfortable existence ...

          What kind of "alien"?

          The value arising as a result of labor activity was produced by the working people, and for some reason the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie consumed the lion's share of it.

          And when they began to live at their own expense

          That mortality decreased by 2 times, and life expectancy increased by 2 times.

          hunger at the next power

          Stopped being regular.

          then ate, dressed, for some reason, much worse than in 1913 right up to the 1950s.

          Much worse privileged classes of the Republic of Ingushetia, but much better than the workers and peasants of the Republic of Ingushetia.

          Under tsarism, infant mortality was less than French than twice, but under the next rulers exceeded the French in 1933 and 1980 FIVE times! This is "development"!

          Anticipated / exceeded - these are not antonyms, so I can only guess about the meaning of what was written.

          In RI of the 19th - beginning of the 20th century, infant mortality was higher than in France. In the USSR, the gap narrowed, infant mortality declined.

          NOBODY in Russia called for the destruction of the hostile classes and their representatives, except for the Communists

          AND? I do not see the answer to my question.

          everything happened only in the ANSWER

          In response to what they persecuted the revolutionaries and shot demonstrations of workers and peasants?

          Before the Bolsheviks, no slaughter, no gr. war was NOT

          Before the Bolsheviks and citizens were not. But there were peasant uprisings and protests of the workers suppressed by the army.
          At the same time, when the Soviets took power, the Civil War did not begin. Civil began only after the organization of the white movement and the formation of a volunteer army.

          Because before their power everyone tried to find compromise

          Sending and shooting those who disagree with the existing order?

          US only did this

          And why did you lose the quorum?

          You this nonsense show written in ulych in the Decree on dispersal of the CSS

          "Iich" had no decrees. The decree on the dissolution of the constituent assembly was issued by the CEC, whose arguments are no different from mine.

          Why didn’t they like school?

          So in TsPSh forever push some kind of dregs.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 8 September 2018 06: 50
            -8
            Quote: Claymore
            Uncle Olgovich, are you?

            belay lol
            Quote: Claymore
            How can one seize power by revolution - i.e. rapid qualitative changes of a progressive nature?

            Through a thief (i.e., a thief).
            Not Russian?
            Quote: Claymore
            What Bolsheviks, if the new organs of power (Soviets, formed in 1905) were electedmulti-party and included a fair amount of non-party?

            Non-general, NOT direct, Unequal, UN-secret, NON-free NOT choices. This is the so-called. "tips".

            Quote: Claymore
            The founder was "overclocked" the phrase "the guard is tired", which was uttered by a member of the Anarchist party

            To school, nephew! There you will find out who made the decision to disperse and the decree on dispersal

            Quote: Claymore
            when lost quorum founding to no avail

            Find this word from a Swiss foreign tourist as an argument. Or are you .... smarter than ilich ?!
            Quote: Claymore
            I read - terror is justified by the outbreak of white terror

            Before the thief, there were NO terror. Chop on the nose-knot!
            Quote: Claymore
            committed in the interests of the absolute most population - in the interests of workers and peasants.

            Most Bolsheviks did NOT choose, they failed
            Quote: Claymore
            The white homeland was a system that allowed whites to parasitize on most of society, and the people "protected" by them "defended"

            The standard of living for consumption and clothing, which was under "parasites", fighters against "parasites" were able to achieve with great difficulty and innumerable victims only after almost forty years!
            Quote: Claymore
            hunger at the next power
            Stopped being regular.

            Are you human at all? Unprecedented never in the history of mankind famine of 33,47 years, as well as 22, 25, 47 years is what?
            Quote: Claymore
            but much better than the workers and peasants of the Republic of Ingushetia.

            fool Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955
            Quote: Claymore
            Anticipated / exceeded - these are not antonyms, so I can only guess about the meaning of what was written.

            And you learn Russian
            Quote: Claymore
            In RI of the 19th - beginning of the 20th century, infant mortality was higher than in France. In the USSR, the gap narrowed, infant mortality declined.

            Russia, 1916, gap with France 1,7 times, USSR, 1988 (the most "flourishing") gap with France 2,5 times. Bravo!
            Quote: Claymore
            AND? I do not see the answer to my question

            Read ONCE AGAIN maybe helps
            Quote: Claymore
            In response to what they persecuted the revolutionaries and shot demonstrations of workers and peasants?

            The brutal executions of demonstrations of workers and peasants were carried out by the Bolsheviks because they opposed them.
            Quote: Claymore
            Before the Bolsheviks and citizens were not

            To school! (Russian Republic)
            Quote: Claymore
            when power took over the Civil War Soviets did not start.

            The massacre in Moscow after the coup, to help you. There the White Guard appeared - in response to it.
            Quote: Claymore
            Sending and shooting those who disagree with the existing order?

            Conducting ELECTIONS, which were not with you at all
            Quote: Claymore
            And why did you lose the quorum?

            There is NO such term in the context of CSS and its dispersal
            Quote: Claymore
            "Iich" had no decrees. The decree on the dissolution of the constituent assembly was issued by the CEC, the arguments of which no different from mine.

            What?!! fool lol
            1. Claymore
              Claymore 9 September 2018 02: 27
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              Through a thief (i.e., a thief).
              Not Russian?

              Not a Moldovan - therefore, I do not understand how to seize power through rapid qualitative changes of a progressive nature.

              Non-general, NOT direct, Unequal, UN-secret, NON-free NOT choices. This is the so-called. "tips".

              The Soviets were elected in the regions by direct non-secret (which made it possible to exclude fraud) voting, after which they sent delegates to the Congress of the Soviets, where all decisions were made.
              Thus, the elections to the Soviets were nationwide and in the interests of the vast majority of the population.

              To school, nephew! There you will find out who made the decision to disperse and the decree on dispersal

              I am not attracted to the central vocational school.

              Find this word from a Swiss foreign tourist as an argument. Or are you .... smarter than ilich ?!

              I am smarter than many of my contemporaries, as a result of which I am able to distinguish victorious relations due to a certain action from a situation that is the actual justification for this action.

              Before the thief, there were NO terror. Chop on the nose-knot!

              Terror (lat. - fear, horror) - a policy of intimidation, suppression of political opponents by violent measures, up to physical destruction.
              Accordingly, any suppression of political opponents (be it a reference, a conclusion, a ban on printed materials and the activities of organizations, executions of demonstrations, etc.) is terror, which is an integral part of class society / state, and it means that I don’t need to make nicks on my nose.

              Most Bolsheviks did NOT choose, they failed

              1 In this part of the commentary it was written about coups and interests - where does the election come from?
              2 Initially, the Bolsheviks were a minority in the Soviets, but every year their number increased - they were elected.

              The standard of living for consumption and clothing, which was under "parasites", fighters against "parasites" were able to achieve with great difficulty and innumerable victims only after almost forty years!

              8 years after graduation.

              Are you human at all? Unprecedented never in the history of mankind famine of 33,47 years, as well as 22, 25, 47 years is what?

              1 Judging by the mortality rate - far from unprecedented.
              2 This is the legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia (underdeveloped means of production and infrastructure + poor education of the population) and the impact of wars (destruction of infrastructure).

              Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR

              It gives the nominal and average per capita consumption, rather than the distribution of consumption by groups (in the USSR this distribution was relatively uniform and everyone really ate conventional stuffed cabbage, while in the Republic of Ingushetia the majority of the population ate cabbage with quinoa not reflected in the consumption statistics, and the nobility ate meat) .

              And you learn Russian

              Do not confuse ignorance of the Russian language with the non-perception of the Moldavian way of thinking.

              Russia, 1916, gap with France 1,7 times, USSR, 1988 (the most "flourishing") gap with France 2,5 times. Bravo

              I’m waiting for a link to the data on the number of deaths per 1000 in a specific age category in specific periods - we’ll calculate the difference together. )))

              Read ONCE AGAIN maybe helps

              It does not help.
              So what "such" slogans did not anyone have?
              Nobody had any slogans whose essence is the abolition of class division and the receipt of benefits by work?

              The brutal executions of demonstrations of workers and peasants were carried out by the Bolsheviks because they opposed them.

              1 I asked the question - "In response to what were the revolutionaries persecuted and the demonstrations of workers and peasants shot?" - the answer will be?
              2 Neither the Soviets nor the Bolsheviks have ever shot demonstrations - they destroyed only armed groups and their individual participants.

              To school! (Russian Republic)

              In which regulatory act of the Republic of Poland did the concept of citizenship and determination of the status of a citizen appear?

              The massacre in Moscow after the coup, to help you. There appeared the White Guard - in response to it

              1 I wanted to know more about this massacre, which apparently took place in an alternative reality.
              2 The concepts of "massacre", "performance", "mutiny", etc. are not identical with the concept of "war".

              Conducting ELECTIONS, which were not with you at all

              Once again: Tips are elected bodies. )))

              There is NO such term in the context of CSS and its dispersal

              There is a fact of the event denoted by this term.

              What?!!

              The decree on the dissolution of the founding party was issued by the CEC, the arguments of which are no different from mine. smile
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 9 September 2018 08: 16
                -4
                Quote: Claymore
                Not a Moldovan - therefore, I do not understand how to seize power through rapid qualitative changes of a progressive nature.

                You need to know the BASICS of the Russian language: the interpretation of the words of the Russian language is given by the "Explanatory dictionaries of the Russian language":
                REVOLUTION Ozhegov's Explanatory Dictionary; 1. Radical revolution in the life of society, which leads to the elimination of the previous social and political system and the establishment of a new government

                Those. A thief (OCT), the Bolsheviks came to power. Again does not reach?
                Quote: Claymore
                Thus, the elections to the Soviets were nationwide and in the interests of the vast majority of the population.

                Thus, the advice as it was, and they were: Non-universal, indirect, unequal, non-secret, non-free , were not nationwideThey didn’t represent ANYTHING except the appointees of the VKPBE and absolutely did not represent the interests of the people: millions are deprived of the right to vote, 1 worker’s vote = 10 votes of the peasants, rivals are destroyed, the press is destroyed, protests are prohibited. THIS election ?! fool
                Quote: Claymore
                I am not attracted to the central vocational school.

                You are invited to start school.
                Quote: Claymore
                Я Smarter many of my contemporaries, as a result of which he is able to distinguish victorious relations due to a certain action from a situation that is the actual justification for this action.

                No, not smarter. .
                Quote: Claymore
                it’s not for me to do nicks on the nose.

                To you: there are no wild slaughterhouses of Gr. there was no war. Hacked up?
                Quote: Claymore
                1 In this part of the commentary it was written about coups and interests - where does the election come from?
                2 Initially, the Bolsheviks were a minority in the Soviets, but every year their number increased - they were elected.

                1. Despite the fact that the majority of the Bolsheviks did NOT choose (see elections to the Constitutional Council and local elections)
                2. To school! At the time of the VOR, they were either not at all in the peasant councils, or in the overwhelming minority. The peasantry is 85% of the population!
                Quote: Claymore
                8 years after graduation.

                by 1950_ Report of the CSB 1955
                Quote: Claymore
                1 Judging by the mortality rate - far from unprecedented.

                7 million dead from starvation with cannibalism 33 g is not a level? -There has never been anywhere in the world — and this is in peacetime!
                Quote: Claymore
                2 This is the legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia (underdeveloped means of production and infrastructure + poor education of the population) and the impact of wars (destruction of infrastructure).

                33rd year-WHAT is the legacy when EVERYONE has become SECURED (according to the party?!)
                Quote: Claymore
                ate cabbage with a quinoa not reflected in the statistics of consumption, and the nobility ate meat).

                fool lol 1% of the population ... ate 99% of meat? You are completely ....
                Quote: Claymore
                Do not confuse ignorance of the Russian language with the non-perception of the Moldavian way of thinking.

                belay lol
                Quote: Claymore
                Waiting for a link to the data on the number of deaths per 100

                ABOVE there are graphs
                Quote: Claymore
                Neither the Soviets nor the Bolsheviks have ever shot demonstrations - they destroyed only armed groups and their individual participants.

                Demonstrations in support of the US-shot by Latvian punishers, executions of rallies of starving women requiring bread, etc.
                Quote: Claymore
                In which regulatory act of the Republic of Poland did the concept of citizenship and determination of the status of a citizen appear?

                Search for yourself. And who, in your opinion, was in RR?
                Quote: Claymore
                I wanted to know the details of this massacre, which apparently took place in an alternative reality.

                Once you feel like it, and LEARN. But themselves, there are no servants!
                Quote: Claymore
                Once again: Tips are elected bodies. )))

                Once again: there was NO election, for there was no choice. HOW does this not get to ?!
                Quote: Claymore
                There is a fact of the event denoted by this term.


                1. "Quorum" appointed Ilic, and he had no right to interfere and change the rules during the game.
                2. A quorum was assigned only for OPENINGS OF THE MEETING And then a simple majority is enough: there are 400 deputies in the Duma. But 201 is enough for work. Therefore, Ilic did not write about the "quorum" during overclocking. I got caught myself.
                Quote: Claymore
                The decree on the dissolution of the founding party was issued by the CEC, the arguments of which are no different from mine.

                Give a decree and - your chatter about quorum.
                And don't forget the hat: you will eat it when you do not find a "quorum" in it
                1. Claymore
                  Claymore 10 September 2018 18: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich

                  BASES of the Russian language need to know

                  Do you need to turn on your head?

                  REVOLUTION - radical revolution in society, which leads to the liquidation of the previous social and political system and the establishment of a new government.

                  The life of society is its social relations (the interaction of the subjects of society with each other), regulated by the laws of the state. The totality of social relations and the laws governing them forms a social and political system.

                  A radical revolution (revolution) is a radical change in social relations and the laws that govern them.

                  For the implementation of a radical revolution in society, it is necessary to change social relations, and therefore the laws governing these relations.
                  And to change laws, you must have power.

                  Accordingly, the question arises - how could the Bolsheviks seize power through revolution (i.e., through a radical change in social relations and the laws of the state) if, in order to implement this change, they first had to seize power?

                  Non-universal, indirect ...

                  Again.

                  The elections were general / popular, and the defeat of the rights of a maximum of 4.3% of the population is not able to cancel this fact (part 3) - http://base.garant.ru/184566/1b93c134b90c6071b4dc3f495464b753/

                  The elections to the regional councils were direct and equal - 1 voter had 1 vote.

                  The elections were not secret, and this is their huge plus.

                  The elections were free - participation in them was voluntary.

                  The content of decrees and resolutions issued by the CEC and the Council of People's Commissars clearly indicates that the activities of the Soviets fully met the interests of the working masses, and this is at least 90% of the population.

                  1 worker vote = 10 peasant votes

                  Not a voice, but a representation, and the alignment was not 10 to the 1st, but 5 to the 1st.

                  party competitors destroyed

                  So, the "revolutionary communists", "borotbists", "Poalei-Zion" and "anarchists-communists" who were present at the 7th road of the Soviets were present there as photographs?

                  press destroyed, protests prohibited

                  Presa and protests of extremists who opposed the Soviets with weapons in their hands.

                  You are invited to start school

                  Initial Moldavian does not appeal to me either.

                  No not smarter

                  Check - what is the difference between triumphant reports and factual justification? )))

                  until the Thief no wild slaughterhouse of the Gr. there was no war

                  The Pugachev uprising, the uprising of 1861, the 1st Russian revolution - all this is the same massacre, so you do not need to replace historical facts with your fantasies about the crunch of French rolls.

                  Despite the fact that most of the Bolsheviks did not choose

                  Mixing warm with soft is a sign of inadequacy.

                  Once again - what relation to questions of interests and upheavals have questions of elections and the number of Bolsheviks in the CSS?

                  At the time of the VOR, they were either not at all in the peasant councils, or in the overwhelming minority

                  And after 5 years, most of them became there, because peasants each year more and more chose them.

                  7 million dead from starvation with cannibalism 33 g is not a level? -That has never been anywhere in the world-and this is in peacetime

                  7 million exist only in the fantasies of Goebbels and his followers, but what actually happened in the 33rd happened regularly in the Republic of Ingushetia.

                  33rd year — WHAT is the legacy when EVERYONE has become SECURED (according to the party?

                  The party did not make such statements, as it was still very far from wealth, although by the 33rd year they had significantly more than in 1913-1916.

                  And the legacy is the same.
                  Petty-bourgeois relations were not completely eliminated, production to a large extent remained small-commodity and low-productive.
                  The thieves and negligence traditional for the Republic of Ingushetia did not disappear anywhere, stupidity and greed flourished, which, together with kulak agitation, resulted in predatory slaughter of cattle and sabotage of agricultural work, which in the conditions of poor harvests gave a short-term leap in mortality to the traditional for the Republic of Ingushetia 40 ppm.

                  1% of the population ... ate 99% of the meat?

                  5% of the population ate 60% of the meat produced.

                  ABOVE there are graphs

                  In which there are no verified comparable data on the number of deaths per 1000.

                  Demonstrations in support of US-shot by Latvian punishers

                  Are you talking about those "peaceful demonstrations" after which the Dorogomilovsky District Council took off?

                  executions of rallies of starving women demanding bread

                  Where and when - yesterday in an alternate reality?

                  Search for yourself

                  laughing

                  And who, in your opinion, was in RR?

                  The population is such a joy.

                  Citizenship is a legal status that did not exist in the RR. The population of Russia acquired it 2 days after VOSR.

                  Once you feel like it, and LEARN

                  You cannot learn non-existent.

                  Once again: there was NO election, for there was no choice

                  Frequent repetition of unfounded allegations does not make these allegations less unfounded.

                  What choice was not - between what and what?

                  The choice at that moment was between the system in which extortion and life at the expense of others were legalized, and the system in which they were prohibited. The population made and defended this choice.

                  1 "Quorum" appointed Ilic-and he had no right to interfere and change the rules during the game

                  The quorum was determined by the Council of People's Commissars.

                  This happened in the absence of any legal authority.
                  The EaP was as illegal as the Council of People's Commissars, but the latter, unlike the EaP, was the body that indirectly elected the population.

                  A quorum was assigned only to OPEN the meeting. And then, just enough and most

                  QUORUM (lat. Quorum) - the smallest number of members of the meeting at which it is considered legal and can make decisions.

                  Bring Decree and Your Quorum Chatter

                  ... The Constituent Assembly opened on January 5 gave, by virtue of well-known circumstances, the majority of the party of the Right Social Revolutionaries
                  ... this party refused ... to recognize the "Declaration of the Rights of the Working and Exploited People" [unwillingness to agree on changes in the interests of the vast majority]
                  ... Thus, the Constituent Assembly broke all ties between itself and the Soviet Republic of Russia. The withdrawal from such a Constituent Assembly of factions of Bolsheviks and Left Social Revolutionaries, which now constitute an overwhelming majority in the Soviets and enjoy the trust of the workers and the majority of peasants, was inevitable [with a quorum of 400 people, the departure of the Bolsheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries in fact made the work of the Constitutional Council impossible]
                  ... It is clear that the rest of the Constituent Assembly can only play the role of covering the struggle of the bourgeois counter-revolution for the overthrow of the power of the Soviets [the government has the opportunity to set binding tasks, therefore the Constitutional Council can only provide cover, because it does not have power in the absence of a quorum, and an attempt to set mandatory tasks without a quorum = torture usurpation of power]
                  Therefore, the Central Executive Committee decides:
                  The constituent assembly is dissolved.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 September 2018 09: 56
                    -3
                    Quote: Claymore
                    how the Bolsheviks could seize power through revolution

                    Once again, for the tankman lol - COUPLING (see Ozhegova).
                    Coup Flip flop, a turning point in the development of . A fundamental change in public life. (Burns)
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The elections were general / popular,

                    NON-universally-whole CLASSES of citizens were deprived of the right to choose.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The elections to the regional councils were direct and equal - 1 voter had 1 vote.

                    The country was "led" (although the rkpbe was in charge) by the so-called "congresses". And the so-called. congresses "were chosen many steps and WEEKLY negative
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The elections were not secret, and this is their huge plus.

                    They came up with a secret ballot, "Turaks", yes. yes The head does not realize that with all the people are just AFRAID to express their own. great opinion?
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The elections were free - participation in them was voluntary.

                    Is there an involuntary vote? lol You read at Ozhegov-WHAT is freedom.. Free elections are COMPETITION - parties, opinions, this is freedom of the press, agitation, meetings, opinions. It was NEVER with you.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The content of decrees and resolutions issued by the CEC and the Council of People's Commissars clearly indicates that the activities of the Soviets fully met the interests of the working masses,

                    WHO endured this "examination? Swiss foreign tourists who spent half their lives abroad, and in Russia have not been almost ANYWHERE?" lol
                    Quote: Claymore
                    the alignment was 5 to 1uh.

                    And this is normal only for witnesses to the Bolshevik sect, but not for society.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    Therefore, the "revolutionary communists", "borotbists", "Poalei-Zion" and "anarchists-communists" who were present at the 7th stage of the Soviets were present there in quality of photos?

                    Certainly: (the communists 970, “Revolutionary communists” 3, Borotbists 1, Poalei Zion 1, anarchist communists 1It’s not funny for yourself?
                    Quote: Claymore
                    , rebellion 18611st, XNUMXst Russian revolution - all this is the same massacre,

                    You put on one board a civil massacre where 10 died (TEN) million and the "uprising" of 1861, where the victims ...14 people ?! Do you realize what you mean? fool
                    Quote: Claymore
                    Once again - what relation to questions of interests and upheavals have questions of elections and the number of Bolsheviks in the CSS?

                    THIRD TIMES this is repeated on YOUR statement:
                    Quote: Claymore
                    committed in the interest of absolute majority population - in the interests of workers and peasants.

                    To which you are answered that this is the most absolute MOST with a bang swept, rejected with their obsessive care.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    And after 5 years, most of them became there, because peasants each year more and more chose them.

                    Are you completely already? ALL other competing parties were destroyed! WHO to choose ?!
                    Quote: Claymore
                    7 million exist only in the fantasies of Goebbels and his followers, but what actually happened in the 33rd happened regularly in the Republic of Ingushetia.

                    NOBODY thought to keep silent for 60 years about the most terrible tragedy of hunger (in terms of the number of victims) in human history. Only the Bolsheviks. 7 million is the OFFICIAL figure of the state, and your powerless denial is the least that interests
                    Quote: Claymore
                    in RI it happened regularly.

                    Facts where, liar?
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The party has not made such statements.

                    There is no educational program, I say again. If you don’t know, then seek, not talk
                    19.02.1933/XNUMX/XNUMX g "We have achieved that the millions of the poor, who used to live from hand to mouth, became wealthy people

                    And February was the worst in terms of the number of "wealthy" people who died of hunger
                    Quote: Claymore
                    It's about those "peaceful demonstrations"

                    in the suppression of which beasts killed dozens of people
                    Quote: Claymore
                    Where and when - yesterday in an alternate reality?

                    There is no educational program. Yourself!
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The population is such a joy.

                    The population of Ivanov, right? Reader:
                    Decree of the Provisional Government
                    22 March 1917 year

                    Based on the unshakable conviction that in a free country everything citizens dMust be equal before the law
                    Quote: Claymore
                    What choice was not - between what and what?

                    BETWEEN PARTIES, PROGRAMS, LEADERS, still not learned?
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The choice at that moment was between the ranks

                    At the ELECTIONS, the choice takes place, at the ELECTIONS! And the election is lost.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    The quorum was determined by the Council of People's Commissars.

                    This happened in the absence of any legal authority.

                    THE RULES for conducting the election campaign and the work of the Constitutional Council are determined by the decisions of the Government and were carried out by the Election Commission. The rules of the election and the start of work during the process - DO NOT change, chop yourself a knot with an ax!
                    so called "Sovnarkom" did not represent almost ANYONE, tk. so called The "2nd Congress of Soviets" rejected the peasant soviets and the Cossacks, and this is 90% of the population, and from the soldiers' committees they only invited ... Bolsheviks!
                    Quote: Claymore
                    therefore, the CSS can only provide cover, because it does not have power in the absence of a quorum, and an attempt to set mandatory tasks without a quorum = torture usurpation of power]
                    Therefore, the Central Executive Committee decides:
                    The constituent assembly is dissolved.

                    What's this?! A decree from parallel reality? fool
                    Absorbed completely .... eat a hat!lol
                    1. Claymore
                      Claymore 12 September 2018 06: 20
                      +4
                      [quote = Olgovich] Once again, for a tankman - COUPLING [/ quote]
                      Said a twisting hula hoop submarine with a broken body. )))

                      Given:
                      a) it was stated that the Bolsheviks seized power through (i.e., through, using) revolution;
                      b) with a reference to Ozhegov, it was stated that revolution is a radical revolution in the life of society (i.e., a radical change in social relations and the laws that govern them);
                      c) with a new reference to Ozhegov, it was stated that a coup is a turning point in the development of something, or a radical change in public life.

                      Thus, it was stated that the Bolsheviks seized power and carried out fundamental changes in the development of society and state life with the help (by using) of a radical change in social relations and the laws that govern them.

                      Question: how did the Bolsheviks manage to seize power with the help of fundamental changes in the development of society, in public life, in public relations and the laws that govern them, if it is necessary to have power in order to carry out radical changes that the Bolsheviks have not yet taken?

                      By the way - when replying to this question, one should not again refer to Ozhegov, who in his definition of revolution indecently clumsily rephrased Marx.

                      [quote] Non-universal-whole CLASSES of citizens were deprived of the right to choose [/ quote]
                      As follows from the legislation of the Russian Federation, from the defeat of the rights of certain categories of persons, elections do not cease to be considered universal.

                      [Quote] The country was "led" (although the RKPB was in charge) by the so-called "congresses". And the so-called. congresses "were chosen many steps and WEEKLY [/ quote]
                      1 A country is a territory. Territories are not governed; they are governed by states.
                      2 Any political party is a public organization. Public organizations do not lead states.
                      3 The state was governed not by congresses, but by the Soviets - authorities consisting of representatives elected by citizens. who were elected equally, directly and could be recalled.
                      To participate in the supreme authority (congress of Soviets), deputies of the Soviets elected delegates (i.e., the system was two-stage, and the representation was unequal), which was absolutely justified under the conditions of a general lack of education of the population inherited from the Republic of Ingushetia.

                      [quote] They came up with a secret ballot, "turaks" [/ quote]
                      A secret ballot was invented as a tool for gaining access to the masses.

                      [quote] The head does not realize that with all the people are just AFRAID of expressing their own. excellent opinion? [/ quote]
                      The head understands that it is not preschool children who are afraid to express an excellent opinion who are entitled to vote.
                      An open expression of one’s opinion is one of the conditions for the existence of real democracy, and an open vote avoids fraud and gives an absolutely accurate idea of ​​the level of legitimacy of the elected people.

                      [quote] And there is an involuntary vote? [/ quote]
                      It happens - http://viperson.ru/wind.php?ID=6670632
                      lol

                      [quote] Free elections is a COMPETITION -party [/ quote]
                      No need to think over the meaning of legal terms - http://be5.biz/pravo/k032/32.html,
                      [quote] WHO took this "certification? [/ quote]
                      The population of the country, in the mass adopted the Soviets, and common sense.

                      [quote] And this is normal only for witnesses to the Bolshevik sect, but not for society [/ quote]
                      Less than 50% of the population took part in the elections to the US, but for the opponents of the "Bolshevik sect" who are dissatisfied with the 5 to 1 alignment, this is not a problem for some reason.

                      [quote] Himself not funny? [/ quote]
                      I am ridiculed by conspiracy theories that represent the Bolsheviks as some sorcerers who, through the use of secret forces, managed to establish control over a territory whose population hated them fiercely.

                      [quote] You put on one board a civil slaughter where 10 died (TEN) million and the "uprising" of 1861, where are the victims .... [b] 14 people?! [/ quote]
                      I equalize the essence of the phenomenon, not its consequences.

                      14 people?
                      1859 speeches of peasants, 937 of which the army suppressed, and only 14 killed? )))
                      In the village of the Abyss of the Kazan province alone, 91 were killed - and this is also a massacre.
                      And the situation during the 19th - early 20th century, when mortality dangled at the level of 30-45 ppm (1.5-2 times higher than the European average), by today's standards, can not be called genocide.

                      [quote] To which you were told that this most absolute MOST of them roared with a bang, rejected them with their obsessive care [/ quote]
                      And once again, the conversation turned not about the reaction of the uneducated population, which was expressed in "rejection of obsessive care" long before the VOSR.
                      The conversation turned to real interests (resolving the land issue, establishing social guarantees ...) and a coup that allowed these interests to be ensured.

                      So what does the issue of elections and the number of Bolshevik representation in the UE have to do with questions of interests and coups?

                      [quote] Are you completely already? ALL other competing parties were destroyed! WHO to choose? [/ Quote]
                      I recommend looking at the dynamics of the size of the Bolshevik party and the number of competing parties, and then ask yourself the question - who "destroyed" these competitors.


                      [quote = Claymore] 7 million exist only in the fantasies of Goebbels and his later ones, and what actually happened in the 33rd happened regularly in RI. [quote]
                      NOBODY thought to keep silent for 60 years about the most terrible tragedy of hunger (in terms of the number of victims) [b] in the history of mankind [/ quote]
                      But Goebbels’s last found ones who thought of spreading nonsense about 7 million people who died of starvation (7 million is a number that exceeds the total losses of the USSR in the hardest year of 1943, i.e., nonsense).

                      [quote] Facts where, liar? [/ quote]
                      In the mortality rate (in ppm) of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR.

                      [quote] 19.02.1933/XNUMX/XNUMX g "We have achieved [/ quote]
                      Pulling quotes out of context is a symptom.

                      ... We have achieved the fact that the millions of poor people who had previously starved, now became middle peasants on collective farms, and became wealthy people. ...
                      What does it mean? This means that at least 20 million peasants, at least 20 million poor people were saved from poverty and ruin, saved from kulak bondage and turned into wealthy people thanks to collective farms.
                      This is a great achievement, comrades. ...
                      But this is only the first step, our first achievement on the path of collective farm construction.
                      It would be wrong to think that we should stop at this first step, at this first achievement. No, comrades; we cannot stop at this achievement. In order to move on and finally strengthen the collective farms, we must take the second step, we must achieve a new achievement. What is this second step? It consists in raising the collective farmers even higher. It consists in making all collective farmers prosperous. Yes, comrades, well-to-do ...

                      [Quote]
                      And February was the most terrible in terms of the number of people who died of hunger "wealthy" [/ quote]
                      The peak of mortality came in June.

                      [quote] when suppressed by which animals killed dozens of people [/ quote]
                      "Bloody Sunday" is not the subject of this conversation.

                      [quote] There is no educational program. Yourself! [/ Quote]
                      The drain is counted.

                      [quote] The population of Ivanov, right? [/ quote]
                      Yes - there is not a word in the resolution of the Interim Government about what a "citizen" is
                      http://constitution.garant.ru/history/act1600-1918/5308/

                      [quote = Claymore] What choice was there - between what and what?
                      [Quote] Between PARTIES, PROGRAMS, LEADERS, still not learned? [/ Quote]
                      The only thing I did not learn was the answer to the question - where do the choices between parties and programs come from if this choice has already been made?

                      [quote] In the ELECTION, the choice occurs, in the ELECTION! [/ quote]
                      The choice takes place before the election - at the polling station it is only made out.
                      If the choice does not coincide with the choice of the majority, then in this case one can either submit to the will of the majority or forcefully try to subordinate the majority to their will (this was what White and others like them tried to do).

                      [quote] THE RULES of the election campaign and the work of the CSS are determined by the decisions of the Government [/ quote]
                      The existence of which the legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia did not provide.

                      [quote] so-called "Sovnarkom" did not represent almost ANYONE [/ quote]
                      My dear man, power is the ability to dictate one’s will (that is, the ability to set binding tasks).
                      There are only 2 ways to dictate your will - by violence (conditionally - put the barrel to your head and demand the execution of an order) and by building authority (the case when you are recognized as having authority and are simply obeyed).

                      The socialists were initially small in number - they, together with their foreign comrades-in-arms and local sympathizers, not only did not have an advantage in armaments and manpower, but completely lost in this to the cadets, right-wing Social Revolutionaries, etc. figures who had significant support from the masses.

                      Therefore, the socialists could take power in only one way - by gaining authority among the masses, without whose support they could not be anything.
                      Therefore, the statement that the Soviets and the Council of People's Commissars who had taken power did not represent anyone is nothing more than stupid nonsense.

                      [quote] This ... what ?! A decree from parallel reality? [/ Quote]
                      From this - the text is freely available, in square brackets I rephrased the logic of what is stated in it.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 September 2018 11: 50
                        -4
                        Quote: Claymore
                        From this - the text is freely available, in square brackets I rephrased the logic of what is stated in it.

                        Who needs your "translation" from Russian into Russian? lol WHERE is the "quorum" in the decree? A-no. Eat your hat, don't forget! lol
                        This also applies to your entire opus, to which there is no longer any desire to answer: you still have the same fairy tale about the white bull as in the previous comments .: WHO NEEDS YOUR interpretations and "clarifications" of FACTS and DOCUMENTS? fool

                        Summary:
                        1. Elections (in human terms, NOT Bolshevik) under that power - NOT. Never. For they were afraid of their power, like a devil of incense. There were no elections, there was no power of the people.
                        2. 2 so-called "Congress" - 90% of the people of Russia-NOT represented. The lawful All-Russian Central Executive Committee qualifies it as "an assembly of the Bolsheviks. No more.
                        3. Elections in the CSS are recognized as the most perfect at that time in the world. The liars and usurpers who promised to rule before the US-destroyed the choice of the people and killed dozens of civilians who defended the choice of the people
                        4. Hunger for 33 years, which AT ALL was not in Soviet "history" in newspapers, at congresses, led to the death of many millions of people, whom the rulers called "well-to-do".
                        5. "Quorum" for the WORK of the US-no one has established and ichmi-was not mentioned in the decree on overclocking.

                        You have NOT provided facts and documents refuting these theses, and your empty chatter - "explanations" - just, sorry, tired.
                        For sim ...
                      2. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 September 2018 05: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Who needs your "translation" from Russian into Russian? lol WHERE is the "quorum" in the decree

                        Another demonstration of poor education and inability to think properly. laughing

                        It's a decree about dissolution US - and where is the quorum?

                        The absence of a quorum in the Constitutional Court made it impossible to make decisions until the quorum was reached, but was not the basis for the dissolution of the Constitutional Court.

                        The reason for the dissolution was an attempt decision making in the absence of a quorum (and not the absence of a quorum) - i.e. an attempt to make decisions by an insufficient number of participants (it’s the same as if the majority of the State Duma’s deputies would start to adopt the constitutional laws of the Russian Federation, but a quarter of the deputies).
                        And this (both de jure and de facto) is an attempt to usurp power.

                        This is written in the decree - "... It is clear that the rest of the Constituent Assembly can therefore play the role of only covering up the struggle of the bourgeois counter-revolution for the overthrow of the power of the Soviets ...".
                        It is written that the only thing capable of not having power часть CSS - this is to cover the struggle for the overthrow of the power of the Soviets (the fact that the remnants of the CSS are doing just that, an attempt to usurp power showed)

                        This applies to your entire opus.

                        Statements of this kind always require evidence, which in this case is somehow not observed.

                        Summary:

                        From repeated repetition, unfounded allegations do not become less unfounded.

                        The drain is counted.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 September 2018 09: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Another demonstration of poor education and inability to think properly.

                        Your TS "Thinking" is not interesting to anyone, has it really not come down to now? request . Interesting FACTS. Their we are discussing, if still not noticed.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The absence of a quorum in the Constitutional Court made it impossible to make decisions until the quorum was reached, but was not the basis for the dissolution of the Constitutional Court.

                        ONCE AGAIN: your attempts at thoughtful conclusions are in the furnace. They are NOT needed by anyone.
                        ANYWHERE, in any documents, the delirium cited by you is NOT present.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The reason for the dissolution was an attempt to make decisions in the absence of a quorum (and not the absence of quorum itself) - i.e. an attempt to make decisions by an insufficient number of participants (it’s the same as if the majority of the State Duma’s deputies would start to adopt the constitutional laws of the Russian Federation, but a quarter of the deputies).
                        And this (both de jure and de facto) is an attempt to usurp power.

                        And again: your idle chatter is not interesting: about nothing "an attempt to make decisions by an insufficient number of participants in the absence of a quorum" there is NO word in the Documents, it says:
                        It is clear that the rest of the Constituent Assembly can therefore only play a role cover for the struggle of bourgeois counter-revolution for overthrowing the power of the Soviets.
                        therefore The Central Executive Committee decides:
                        The constituent assembly is dissolved.

                        Those. decided that the Assembly, chosen by ALL the people of Russia, was a counter and dispersed. Received the SLAUGHTER at the cost of 10 million people.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        It is written that the only thing the non-power part of the CSS is capable of is to cover the struggle for the overthrow of the power of the Soviets

                        Quote: Claymore
                        the only thing capable of

                        Are you working as a "translator" again? lol Take it easy, don’t!
                        And what is capable, and what is not capable of US-NOT TO YOU and loserswho have lost the elections and cheated on their voters (they say, we only work before the CSS, and then, as it says!) decide! What life has shown.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Statements of this kind always require evidence, which in this case is somehow not observed.

                        evidence is given, in response, your empty talking room.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        From repeated repetition, unfounded allegations do not become less unfounded.

                        What I am trying to persistently instill in you lol to the head: do not interpret documents and facts, they themselves speak for themselves!
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The drain is counted.

                        To school, dear man, to SCHOOL-jogging-for knowledge yes !
                      4. Claymore
                        Claymore 14 September 2018 03: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Your TS "thinking" is not interesting to anyone

                        In this case, it was not about my thinking, although the statement that thinking is not interesting fully confirms the correctness of my observation about the inability to think adequately.

                        Interesting FACTS

                        A fact is a reliably established truth, to which the repetition of unfounded mantras has nothing to do.

                        ONCE AGAIN: your attempts at thoughtful conclusions-in the furnace

                        And again - from repeated repetition, unfounded allegations do not become less unfounded.

                        Those. decided that the Assembly, chosen by ALL the people of Russia, was a counter and dispersed

                        Those. They decided that the assembly, chosen by less than 50% of the population, which blocked the adoption of decisions on the most important issues in the interests of the bourgeoisie and tried to usurp power after losing the quorum, should be dissolved.

                        And in this whole story, the determining component is the possession of power.

                        An individual or group can decide for himself anything, but as long as the individual or group does not have power, none of their decisions can be implemented.

                        Therefore, the fact that the Soviets were able to overthrow the EaP and dissolve the UC directly testifies to the fact that, by the time of the dissolution of the UC, the Soviets chosen by the population already had power.
                        Therefore, all the groans of legality in relation to that situation are conversations against the interests of the majority in favor of the poor exploiters who have been moved away from the feeding trough.

                        Received a SLAUGHTER at the cost of 10 million people

                        What you need to thank the whites and their predecessors.

                        Are you working as a "translator" again?

                        And what remains for me if, as it turned out, far from everyone has the ability to think adequately and perceive the meaning of what is written?

                        And what is capable, and what is not capable of US-NOT TO YOU and loserswho have lost the elections and cheated on their voters (they say, we only work before the CSS, and then, as it says!) decide! What life has shown.

                        Life has shown that those who eventually drowned Kolchak safely turned out to be losers.

                        evidence is given

                        And again - from repeated repetition, unfounded allegations do not become less unfounded.

                        interpret documents and facts, they speak for themselves!

                        This correspondence showed that to those who are not familiar with the elementary meaning of terminology (be it revolution, quorum, etc.), the documents do not say anything, because such an individual simply replaces the meaning contained in the documents with his fantasies.

                        To school, dear man, in SCHOOL

                        No need to strain with sending me somewhere - the drain has already been counted.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 September 2018 15: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Claymore
                        In this case, it was not about my thinking,

                        About him. Did I say vaguely? Your interpretations are not needed and not interesting. .
                        Quote: Claymore
                        although the statement that thinking is not interesting fully confirms my allegiance observation the inability to think adequately.

                        Why do you think that your observations are interesting and authoritative to me? fool Free me from them
                        Quote: Claymore
                        A fact is a reliably established truth, to which the repetition of unfounded mantras has nothing to do.

                        I agree here 100%. WHY do you not follow such a wonderful rule and bombard me (ten times, go) with the same dull mantra about the "quorum" of the US, existing only in a parallel inflamed reality? In the so-called overclocking decree, it is NOT. It is a fact.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        And again - from frequent repetition unfounded allegations do not become less unfounded

                        So stop them!
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Those. They decided that the assembly, chosen by less than 50% of the population, which blocked the adoption of decisions on the most important issues in the interests of the bourgeoisie and tried to usurp power after losing the quorum, should be dissolved.

                        The stupidest lie is not in the DOCUMENTS neither about 50%, nor about usurpation of power. Rid me of yours lies.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Therefore, the fact that the Soviets were able to overthrow the EaP and dissolve the UC directly testifies to the fact that by the time of the dissolution of the U.S.

                        When a decent-looking oncoming citizen at the doorway turns out to be, absolutely unexpectedly, a gangster and exhausts you, do not forget to remember this: raaz is stronger, which means he is right! yes 2 Congress of Soviets formed SNK DO US! Suddenly turned out to be a liar ....
                        Quote: Claymore
                        What you need to thank the whites and their predecessors.

                        Before the Reds, before the Thief and the dispersal of the US-WAS neither white nor slaughter-chop it yourself on the nose, finally! As there were no MILLIONS of enemies of the people (and nowhere else in the world there was SUCH). EVERYTHING IS AFTER. These are facts, if that.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        А what remains for meif, as it turned out, not everyone has the ability to think and perceive the meaning of what is written?

                        It remains for you not to do what you are unable to do and what they do not ask you yes . It's simple!
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Life has shown that losers there were those whom Kolchak safely drowned in the end.

                        Look at the flank over the Kremlin more often: maybe it will.
                        Yes, and again no one drowned in Kolchak school.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        because such an individual simply replaces the meaning contained in the documents with his fantasies.

                        The meaning is stated by the documents, clearly and clearly, your false speculations there and does not smell
                        Quote: Claymore
                        about - sink already counted.

                        Take the trouble to speak Russian: your jargon is incomprehensible.
                      6. Claymore
                        Claymore 16 September 2018 03: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        About him. Did I say vaguely? Your interpretations are not needed and not interesting.

                        You can stop twisting the hula hoop because already merged in full. )))
                    2. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 12 September 2018 08: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      What's this?! A decree from parallel reality?

                      Well, here you are broadcasting, indeed, from parallel reality. Where an insignificant nicholas. He ruled an empire in which chocolate on the trees and jam in the pond are sweet and gingerbread, but there was a disaster and useless. His yard was thrown from the throne .... Olgovich, fairy tales to compose not to operate on facts, you do not have facts, but rather you suck out from the most shameful sources and give their inventions and your lies, for something real, does not give your chatter meaning and truth.

                      Colleague Claymore, put your speculation on the shelves and it turned out that you again lied, not the first time shamefully, with a bang, you lose the argument.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 September 2018 11: 59
                        -4
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        .Olgovich, to compose fairy tales not to operate on facts, you have no facts, but rather you suck from the most shameful sources

                        You will refute at least ONE. lol The gut is thin? Thonka, yes!
                        Why do you always lose? Because you are always FALSE. A lie against the TRUTH will always lose.
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        Colleague Claymore, put your speculation on the shelves and it turned out that you again lied, not the first time shamefully, with a bang, you lose the argument

                        lol "The cuckoo praises the rooster ..." (C) laughing
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 September 2018 12: 57
                        -3
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You refute at least ONE
                        To refute that, your chatter?
                        But why. If it’s so clear, your chatter is the fruit of an inflamed imagination

                        What was required to prove: you are NOT lol can lol -nothing .... to refute yes
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        Therefore, you always lose in these topics

                        lol laughing
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "The cuckoo praises the rooster ..."
                        So why are you cocking, cuckoo?

                        First you read Krylov’s fable, otherwise you don’t even fall, what is it about ...lol
        4. Mr Credo
          Mr Credo 6 September 2018 22: 10
          +8
          Olgovich! Do you want to describe what happened after February 17th? Then the power of the Bolsheviks was not at all.
        5. Sweetheart
          Sweetheart 8 September 2018 07: 29
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          Why didn’t they like school?

          If your dubious school, two corridors and between, then why are you splashing out your complete illiteracy?
          What are you all moaning about the useless essentially sharash-chatterbox-CSS?
          https://russianpulse.ru/continentalist/2016/06/02/1538136-mify-ob-uchreditelnom-sobranii
          It was in its purest form a talking room about nothing. Even if they made a decision and voted for it, it would not have any power. The Assembly, due to the lack of a quorum, was already illegitimate.
          https://www.kp.ru/daily/26784.7/3818076/
          Anarchists have made their “contribution” to the unleashing of terror. The White Guards on the right dragged the Social Revolutionaries into the White Terror, and the leftmost of all the Anarchists involved the Bolsheviks in the reciprocal Red Terror. So the poles were strengthened, weakening the middle. And blaming the Bolsheviks for all the crimes of that time, especially in the first half of 1918, is evidence of a misunderstanding of the complexity that the young Soviet government faced then.
          https://librolife.ru/g4164624
          so it’s not for you, olgovich, to teach us history.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 8 September 2018 09: 49
            -7
            Quote: The Swordsman
            It was in its purest form a talking room about nothing.

            It’s not your business: it was the choice of the people of Russia.
            Whoever didn’t like and dislike, he could and could shoot himself.
            1. Sweetheart
              Sweetheart 8 September 2018 09: 59
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              could and can shoot himself.

              Do a favor, the world will become cleaner.
              The people made their choice in 1922, having cleaned out the entire White Guard riffraff from the country.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 8 September 2018 11: 01
                -7
                Quote: The Swordsman
                Do a favor, the world will become cleaner.

                belay
                It is YOU who do not like the choice of the people of Russia, respectively, to you and to clear the world, having retired. yes
                Quote: The Swordsman
                The people made their choice in 1922, having cleaned out the entire White Guard riffraff from the country.

                In 1922 (starting with the Thief) there were no elections (like the next almost 70 years) and the people, respectively, were not represented anywhere and in any way.
                You were afraid of the elections, like the HELL of incense, and for good reason ....
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 8 September 2018 15: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  starting with a thief)

                  With Yeltsin and K?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 9 September 2018 09: 36
                    -2
                    Quote: The Swordsman
                    With Yeltsin and K?

                    with a thief!
                    1. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 9 September 2018 13: 18
                      -1
                      With Yeltsin and K?
                      so more accurate and truthful.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Olgovich (Andrey)
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 September 2018 08: 31
                        -6
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        so more accurate and truthful.

                        Not for you, pathological liars, to speak about Truth.
                        . Starting with the Thief, the peoples were completely deprived of the choice of parties, newspapers. opinions, freedoms. ALL were selected.
                      2. Sweetheart
                        Sweetheart 11 September 2018 19: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        pathological liars

                        Freudian slip?
                        You lie, you repent for the constant lie that you spread here in heaps of foul smelling.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ALL were selected.

                        Gods ... how did you survive, miserable? From the age of 17, you lived and struggled in your bast shoes, onuchs and with a splinter?
            2. UltraRed
              UltraRed 11 September 2018 19: 03
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              Quote: The Swordsman
              It was in its purest form a talking room about nothing.

              It’s not your business: it was the choice of the people of Russia.
              Whoever didn’t like and dislike, he could and could shoot himself.

              The choice of the people is the result of a civil war!
              In which the Reds won ........
              It is clear to any sane person that in a large-scale civil war only that political force wins - which is supported by the majority of the people.
              Shoot ....... :)
        6. Sweetheart
          Sweetheart 11 September 2018 20: 45
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          SO did not like school

          Before the Great October Revolution, we had a church and a tavern in our village.
          After the revolution, a school, hospital, kindergarten, and water supply system were built under Lenin-Stalin. After Yeltsin-Putin came to power, the school was closed, the hospital was optimized and demolished, the kindergarten was closed, there is no water.
          But they opened the taverns and the church.
          Olgovich, the tavern and the church, is that all?
    3. Mik13
      Mik13 6 September 2018 07: 15
      +22
      Quote: Olgovich
      But it came only AFTER the THIEF. Before her she was flaying and shooting indiscriminately hostages on a class basis, there were no slaughterhouses.

      You either don't know, or you're lying.
      I recommend reading about the punitive expedition of the Life Guards of the Semenovsky Regiment of the 1905 of the year. How many people were then shot without trial and for what. Honestly, the Germans in 1941 behaved a little more decent ...
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 07: 52
        -14
        A small correction. L-Guards The Semenov regiment operated under the conditions of a street war unleashed by the socialist militants. Moscow in those days was plunged into bloody anarchy and the guardsmen did not shoot innocent lambs, but terrorists whose hands were bloodied to the elbow.
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 6 September 2018 08: 03
          +22
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          A small correction. L-Guards The Semenov regiment operated under the conditions of a street war unleashed by the socialist militants. Moscow in those days was plunged into bloody anarchy and the guardsmen did not shoot innocent lambs, but terrorists whose hands were bloodied to the elbow.

          That's why I say read.
          Because it was not the "terrorists" who were shot, and not even the participants in the strike (which is actually not a terrorist attack at all), but the entire male population that came into view. They also went home.
          And this is quite a historical fact. They go into the house (apartment) and just kill the men.
          By the way, I can also recall Lensky's execution. There were terrorists there too?
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 09: 12
            -9
            Quote: Mik13
            Because it was not the "terrorists" who were shot, and not even the participants in the strike (which is actually not a terrorist attack at all), but the entire male population that came into view.

            Tell me please, and since when did the "strikes" begin with weapons in hand and with shooting from the windows of houses at policemen and soldiers?
            But the third general strike declared in Moscow immediately suffered a great failure. In Moscow itself, many railways refused to join it. In St. Petersburg, only a small part of the workers went on strike. It was not possible to get the troops to the side of the December uprising, but about 2000 armed combatants gathered in Moscow, whose headquarters decided to lead a guerrilla war in the city.
            The rebels built many barricades in Moscow, which, however, no one defended - their task was only to delay the movement of troops. Having broken up into small groups of one or two people, combatants from the gateways and window leaves shot at dragoons and Cossacks, immediately disappearing into the courtyards. The leaders of the December uprising counted: the soldiers would shoot back, falling not in hiding combatants, but in the civilian population of Moscow; this will embitter him and encourage him to join the rebellion.
            http://rushist.com/index.php/russia/3017-dekabrskoe-vooruzhennoe-vosstanie-v-moskve-1905-kratko

            Quote: Mik13
            They go into the house (apartment) and just kill the men.

            Well yes. They "just" kill men. Who "simply" fired at the troops and killed those who refused to obey them.

            Quote: Mik13
            By the way, I can also recall Lensky's execution. There were terrorists there too?

            And I can remind you of the Novocherkassk shooting. When the "people's" government shot the people. And for this, unlike Lena-1912, no one was punished.
            1. Severomor
              Severomor 6 September 2018 09: 45
              +16
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Well yes. They "just" kill men.


              In the city of Lyubertsy, where he was born, there is a Ukhtomskaya station. Not just killed, but sophisticated
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 10: 09
                -10
                Oh, yes, Ukhtomskaya station. named after the culprit. organized a group of terrorists in 200 heads and led the crimes of this group. Nobody "subtly" killed him. They shot him as the leader of a criminal group. Syria is doing exactly the same with terrorists. You do not regret them. Or do you also think that they are being "subtly killed"?
                And the book that you presented is very remarkable due to the peculiarities of the biography of its author.
                Vladimir Evgrafovich Popov (pseudonym: Vladimir Evgrafovich Vladimirov) is a lawyer, engineer, revolutionary journalist, writer, author of critical articles in the newspaper “XX Century” and several books. In his student years he was a member of the revolutionary circle, probably expelled, and in 1903 he was exiled in Yakutia, led an expedition for exploration on the Nelkano-Ayan route. In 1904 he was released.

                In other words, the author is a typical revolutionary scribbled paper, who wrote libels. Do you seriously think he was objective? There is no more truth in his writings of objectivity than in the stories of liberal "journalists" of the 90s about the events in the Caucasus.
                1. Severomor
                  Severomor 6 September 2018 10: 37
                  +9
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Do you seriously think that he was objective?

                  Show an objective description of events
                  From the protocol of the additional interrogation of the accused Shramchenko Vladimir Vladimirovich, made at the OGPU software in the Leningrad Military District, Leningrad, November 27, 1930
                  Upon arrival at the Perovo station, several soldiers, under the personal command of Riemann, killed bayonets with bayonets. beg. station. As the name of the victim - I do not know. At the time of the hostility of the Station Manager, was present. Near the indicated scene, a company assistant (12 companies) bandaged a 9-year-old child wounded by expedition soldiers. When dressing the child, I was assisted by a paramedic.
                  According to the officers of the regiment, I heard that at art. Golutvino was shot by the driver of Ukhtomsky and another 30 people. If I am not mistaken, soldiers and officers of the 9th company participated in the execution of Ukhtomsky, under the command of Captain Shvetsov. What is the name of Shvetsova - I do not remember.
                  From the conversations of the officers, I knew that Aglaimov, the adjutant of one of the battalions, was distinguished by special atrocities. Aglaimov’s name is Sergey Petrovich. His atrocity was expressed in the fact that he personally shot from prisoners from a gun, for which he received the highest order of Vladimir of the 4th degree. Along with Aglaimov, the Timroth brothers were distinguished by the same atrocities. From conversations with Polivanov or Sivers in the DPZ, I learned that they are abroad.
                  Interrogated - Goncharov. "
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 6 September 2018 11: 19
                    -8
                    Well, they did the right thing - and they shot him for the cause. Some claim that they were shot "just like that"
                  2. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 11: 28
                    -11
                    The OGPU protocol is, of course, strong proof. Especially when you consider how in such protocols appeared information about the work for "Japanese-Anglo-Polish intelligence." However, even if we admit the authenticity of the information provided, a number of questions arise about the protocol:
                    1. The interrogated speaks of killing with bayonets first
                    room beg. station.
                    , then - about the Head of the station. So who was still killed: assistant chief or boss?
                    2. The interrogated person says that
                    a company assistant (12 companies) bandaged a 9-year-old child wounded by expedition soldiers.
                    From this passage 2 conclusions follow - the expedition soldiers assisted the casualties injured during the battle. And the conclusion is that the guards had to take the station in battle, i.e. the terrorists opened fire on the troops and were partially destroyed by return fire.
                    3. A logical question follows from the preceding paragraph: was an official not identified in paragraph 1 of the railway station killed because it was due to his actions related to complicity in the activities of terrorists that uninjured citizens suffered?
                    4. Information about the execution of Ukhtomsky and other persons is based on rumors:
                    According to the officers of the regiment, I heard that at art. Golutvino was shot by the driver of Ukhtomsky and another 30 people ***** From the conversations of the officers I knew that Aglaimov was distinguished by special atrocities

                    5. Aglaimov's "atrocities", as follows from the further text, consisted in the fact that he allegedly
                    with his own hand from Nagan shot captured
                    ... If we admit the veracity of this passage, then we can understand the actions of the officer: in the heat of battle, the desire to personally take revenge on the criminals responsible for the death of subordinates is quite understandable. Read the memoirs of the NKVD officers about the attitude towards Bandera and the "forest brothers" in 1944. Many of them survived to the trial? The "Forest Brothers", after their art, were most often shot on the spot. In Afghanistan, our fighters did not stand on ceremony with the captured Mujahideen either. This is the sad truth of the guerrilla - those who are fighting on the partisan principle cannot count on leniency.
                    6.
                    the highest order of Vladimir 4th degree.
                    But this is a fairy tale. The Order of St. Vladimir was not the highest in the RI system of awards, and the 4th degree of the order was the lowest possible degree.
                    1. Severomor
                      Severomor 6 September 2018 12: 06
                      +17
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      you can understand the actions of an officer: in the heat of battle, the desire to personally take revenge on the criminals guilty of the death of subordinates is understandable

                      - How delightful evenings in Russia are (c).
                      I have no more arguments, I'm beaten)))
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 12: 10
                        -12
                        From your commentary, I understand the following: You have never been able to lead people and have nothing to object to in essence.
                  3. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 6 September 2018 13: 11
                    -12
                    Quote: Severomor
                    From the protocol of the additional interrogation of the accused Shramchenko Vladimir Vladimirovich

                    You give extracts from interrogations of Semenov officers who took part in the liberation of stations and railway from terrorists and executed in 1930
                    So, know that ALL of them were REHABILITATED in 1989, i.e. no fault on them.
                    1. Mik13
                      Mik13 6 September 2018 15: 23
                      +17
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You give extracts from interrogations of Semenov officers who took part in the liberation of stations and railway from terrorists and executed in 1930
                      So, know that ALL of them were REHABILITATED in 1989, i.e. no fault on them.

                      Tell me, if Vlasov, Krasnov and Shkuro were rehabilitated in 1989, would you also write that there is no fault on them?
                      1. Flavius
                        Flavius 8 September 2018 11: 20
                        -4
                        There is wine on Vlasov - he betrayed the oath. The rest of these are purely like lambs.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 6 September 2018 11: 35
                -6
                Quote: Severomor
                Not just killed, but sophisticated

                If you are about sophistication, then you have a direct road to history punitive expeditions of tyrannationalists and communists against PEOPLE'S PEASANT UPRISING -Tambov, Chapan and dozens of others.
                They cut and destroyed there without pity. tens of thousands of peasants they took hostages children and women, shot hostages, put even babies in concentration camps.
                They demanded the extradition of those who were hiding, in case of refusal, they shot a batch of hostages (of any gender and age) and again asked. Refusal-again shot the next batch, and so on, until they are destroyed or they get an answer. very creative yes ...

                What is Lensky shooting .....
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 6 September 2018 09: 40
        -8
        Quote: Mik13
        You either don't know, or you're lying.

        You know, but you're lying.
        Quote: Mik13
        How many people were then shot without trial and for what.

        And here is what these innocent action sheep were doing:
        “Around 6 o'clock in the evening, a group of armed combatants appeared at Skvortsov’s house in Volkov Lane on Presnya ... a bell rang from the main entrance in Voyloshnikov’s apartment ... They started shouting from the stairs, threatening to break down the door and burst into force. Then Voiloshnikov himself ordered to open the door. Six people burst into the apartment, armed with revolvers ... Those who arrived read the verdict of the revolutionary committee, according to which Voiloshnikov was to be shot ... Weeping rose in the apartment, the children rushed to beg the revolutionaries for mercy, but they were adamant. They took Voiloshnikov to the alley, where the sentence was carried out right there at the house ... The revolutionaries, leaving the corpse in the alley, disappeared. The body of the deceased was picked up by relatives. ”
        So 60 policemen were killed in the face (imagine this today).
        The militants themselves were already ... 700-800 people all over Moscow, they destroyed those who were with weapons, this is natural.
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 6 September 2018 10: 22
          +17
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Mik13
          You either don't know, or you're lying.

          You know, but you're lying.
          Quote: Mik13
          How many people were then shot without trial and for what.

          And here is what these innocent action sheep were doing:
          “Around 6 o'clock in the evening, a group of armed combatants appeared at Skvortsov’s house in Volkov Lane on Presnya ... a bell rang from the main entrance in Voyloshnikov’s apartment ... They started shouting from the stairs, threatening to break down the door and burst into force. Then Voiloshnikov himself ordered to open the door. Six people burst into the apartment, armed with revolvers ... Those who arrived read the verdict of the revolutionary committee, according to which Voiloshnikov was to be shot ... Weeping rose in the apartment, the children rushed to beg the revolutionaries for mercy, but they were adamant. They took Voiloshnikov to the alley, where the sentence was carried out right there at the house ... The revolutionaries, leaving the corpse in the alley, disappeared. The body of the deceased was picked up by relatives. ”
          So 60 policemen were killed in the face (imagine this today).
          The militants themselves were already ... 700-800 people all over Moscow, they destroyed those who were with weapons, this is natural.

          Olgovich, you just do not be offended .... Maybe you should read something? At least a school history textbook? And then somehow it’s already completely ... You write nonsense, but for some reason I am ashamed to read this heresy ...
          Firstly, you somehow managed to confuse the suppression of the uprising in Moscow and the punitive expedition on the Moscow-Kazan railway. This is somehow not the same thing.
          And secondly, the actions of the authorities cause, to put it mildly, extreme bewilderment. I hardly imagine something, so that instead of releasing the school in Beslan, a punitive expedition was sent to the city, which would go through the apartments and kill all the men without trial.
          So one can, of course, regret the red terror. But to consider these events in isolation from the events of the 1904-1906 years, to put it mildly, is uncorrupted. It's like regretting Berlin-1945, while lovingly forgetting about the arts of the Reich in the USSR in 1941-1944.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 6 September 2018 11: 21
            -9
            Quote: Mik13
            Olgovich, you just do not be offended .... Maybe you should read something? At least a school history textbook?


            Yeah, Soviet textbook, add.

            Quote: Mik13
            a punitive expedition was sent to the city, which would go around the apartments and kill all the men without trial.


            innocent people were not killed, these are all Bolshevik fairy tales from the series "and we have something for what"
            1. Mik13
              Mik13 6 September 2018 12: 21
              +12
              Quote: Gopnik
              innocent people were not killed, these are all Bolshevik fairy tales from the series "and we have something for what"


              Well, first of all, the court determines guilt or innocence. In any case, this is exactly what should have happened in RI after the manifesto of October 17, 1905, which, among other things, "proclaimed and provided political rights and freedoms, such as: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of association and personal inviolability." ...

              And secondly, here's a quote for you:
              At this time, a sergeant major of some regiment returning from the war, approached Riemann and said: "I am surprised, your honor, how can you shoot without trial?" ".., you are trying to teach!" - and shot him. The station was full of people. All were detained, searched. 23 people were shot at the piles with a stone.

              This was told to Vladimir Gilyarovsky by chief conductor Golubev, who was part of the train crew that served the "expedition". (I hope you know who Gilyarovsky is? And now it suddenly turns out that he, too, was a Bolshevik and a terrorist in combination ...)
              1. Flavius
                Flavius 6 September 2018 13: 10
                -2
                Quote: Mik13
                I hope you know who Gilyarovsky is? And then now it suddenly turns out that he, too, was a Bolshevik and a terrorist concurrently ...

                He was not a monarchist and patriot - that's for sure. Leftist rather.
              2. Gopnik
                Gopnik 6 September 2018 14: 58
                -6
                Quote: Mik13
                guilt or innocence determined by court


                Undoubtedly. But bandits and terrorists are eliminated on the spot, in the course of the liquidation of gangs.

                Quote: Mik13
                This was told to Vladimir Gilyarovsky by Chief Conductor Golubev


                It is understood, rumors from the series "one grandma said"
                1. sunzhenets
                  sunzhenets 8 September 2018 11: 19
                  +8
                  Gopnik
                  Undoubtedly. But bandits and terrorists are eliminated on the spot, in the course of the liquidation of gangs.

                  The employee who writes this during the verification of the use of weapons will definitely sit down.
            2. albert
              albert 6 September 2018 21: 40
              +13
              Quote: Gopnik
              Yeah, Soviet textbook, add.

              Soviet textbooks are much better than modern ones. They cannot even print without errors in the text, not to mention the text itself.
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 11: 44
            -6
            Quote: Mik13
            I hardly imagine something, so that instead of releasing the school in Beslan, a punitive expedition was sent to the city, which would go through the apartments and kill all the men without trial.

            Invalid comparison. In Beslan, as well as in Budennovsk, a newcomer group of terrorists, of a limited number, was localized in one object. In Moscow-1905 there were more than two thousand terrorists who dispersed in small groups around the city and railway, producing sporadic attacks on police officers, soldiers and civilians. And these groups were hiding in passage yards, in the territory of factories and in houses... The latter was singled out especially for you. Note that the terrorists not only hid in houses, but also preferred to shoot from the windows of residential buildings, trying to provoke the soldiers to return fire. This is why the troops searched the houses. It is more logical to compare the operation of the troops in Moscow-1905 with the "mop-up operations" carried out in the Caucasus in the 90s.
            1. businessv
              businessv 6 September 2018 16: 24
              +9
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Invalid comparison. In Beslan, as well as in Budennovsk, a newcomer group of terrorists, of a limited number, was localized in one object.

              A colleague, not specifically addressing you, simply decided to a group of participants, including Olgovich, to throw a topic that is of concern to many today. Is a bloodless solution to the problem possible in today's Ukraine, taking into account the fact that in the hands of not quite honest people involved in governing the country, a huge amount of weapons, money and manpower? The situation in miniature is very similar to the events in Russia a hundred years ago, only IMHO, is simpler to solve. Lively and fresh example that can help sort out past events. smile
          3. Olgovich
            Olgovich 6 September 2018 12: 19
            -5
            Quote: Mik13
            Olgovich, you just do not be offended ...

            Well, what are you: it is known that in Russia it is not customary to be offended by everyone yes
            Quote: Mik13
            You write nonsense, but to read this heresy for some reason I am ashamed...

            Sorry. What do I have to do with it? belay
            Quote: Mik13
            You somehow managed to confuse the suppression of the uprising in Moscow and the punitive expedition on the Moscow-Kazan railway.

            Show "confusion"
            Quote: Mik13
            And secondly, the actions of the authorities cause, to put it mildly, extreme bewilderment. I can hardly imagine something, so that instead of releasing the school in Beslan, a punitive expedition was sent to the city, which would go through the apartments and kill all men without trialand I

            What are "all men", what does Beslan have to do with it ?!
            Armed militants BLOCKED vital transportation along the Moscow-Kazan railway. The troops received orders to free from the station, destroy armed people and unblock the movement. What was done, the movement restored in ONE DAY!
            By order of Riemann, persons whose weapons were found were shot. A total of 63 gunmen were shot.
            If you want to know about real punitive atrocities, then read about peasant uprisings against the Bolsheviks, in which tens of thousands of peasants were killed, including women and children.
    4. Basil50
      Basil50 6 September 2018 10: 15
      +17
      The whole howl about * red terror * only from the realization that some of the lower classes dared to begin to punish the murders * of the elite *, * the salt of the earth RUSSIAN * - the nobility and those who served these nobles.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 11: 31
        -7
        Quote: Vasily50
        some of the lower classes dared to begin to punish

        For you, mass murders on a social basis are "punishments" ?! Maybe then you will begin to justify the crimes of terrorists in Syria. Like, "the oppressed" "punish" ?!
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 6 September 2018 12: 23
          +12
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          For you, mass murders on a social basis are "punishments" ?! Maybe then you will begin to justify the crimes of terrorists in Syria. Like, "the oppressed" "punish" ?!

          An amusing paradox is that mass killings on a social basis were widely practiced in Ingushetia, the Bolsheviks, even during the rampant "red terror", at least tried to comply with the law. At least the courts were held.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 6 September 2018 13: 16
            -4
            Quote: Mik13
            The amusing paradox is that mass killings on a social basis were widely practiced in RI

            Nonsense.
            Quote: Mik13
            the Bolsheviks, even during the rampant "red terror" at least tried to comply with the law.

            WHAT is the "law" in the execution of the HOSTAGES, i.e. people a priori not involved in anything?
            Quote: Mik13
            At least суды carried out

            Over the hostages? belay
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 13: 35
            -4
            Quote: Mik13
            mass killings on social grounds were widely practiced in Ingushetia, the Bolsheviks, even during the rampant "red terror", at least tried to comply with the law. At least the courts were held.

            Are you kidding me? Or do you really believe that? In the Republic of Ingushetia, no one ever issued orders for killings on a social basis. And as for the Red Terror, there just about any courts there was no question:
            June 29, 1919, No. 4338, Ekaterinodar.

            Kharkov. During the stay of the Bolsheviks in Kharkov [...] such terror reigned that many went crazy with all the nightmares experienced. Commissioner Saenko was particularly atrocious, fortunately caught by volunteers. They shot mercilessly, not excluding women and children.

            In two streets and in the basements of some houses, corridors were dug, by the end of which they put shot people and, when they fell, they were sprinkled with earth. [...] The next day, the following were shot at the same place, then again they sprinkled with earth and so on to the top.

            Then the next row of the same corridor began. [...] In one of these corridors lay up to 2 executed. Some women were shot only because they did not accept the courtship of the commissioners. In the basements they found people crucified on the floor and screwed to the floor with screws. Many women had skin on their hands and feet in the form of gloves and stockings and all the skin on the front.
            ****
            Odessa. [...] Instruments of torture, many tortured corpses were found in the cellars of the Odessa "Extraordinary". Among the instruments of torture, special devices of chains for stretching limbs pay attention. The English command led the crews of their ships to the dungeons of the "Extraordinary". The instruments of torture made a heavy impression on the English sailors.

            Kherson. The population recalls with horror the atrocities of the Bolshevik Extraordinary, which was rampant with the arrival of two Chinese in Kherson, torture experts who dissected living people, skinned their legs and arms, stuck pins under their nails. In recent days, the Bolsheviks have killed many public figures in order to paralyze public life after the Bolsheviks left Kherson.
            http://argumentua.com/stati/krasnyi-terror-zverst
            va-sovetskoi-vlasti-dokumenty-i-foto-18
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 6 September 2018 15: 55
              +10
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              http://argumentua.com/stati/krasnyi-terror-zverst
              va-sovetskoi-vlasti-dokumenty-i-foto-18

              And also, Lieutenant, there is another, very interesting article on this site:
              FSB in Ukraine: terrorists on the march ..........
              ..............
              As a result of the Ukrainian uprising, Russia completely lost control of Ukraine. Even those regions that the Kremlin considered XNUMX% pro-Russian were opposed to Russia. The main disappointments are Dnipropetrovsk, Odessa and Kharkov.

              The last special operation conducted by the GRU in Odessa ended in the deaths of 50 people. This was done in order to provoke the beginning of the Yugoslav scenario in Ukraine. Among those killed there are many who sincerely advocated an alliance with Russia. They were used as blind cannon fodder.

              Topic: Fire in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa, as it was

              But even such a monstrous terrorist attack did not give the Kremlin the expected effect. Attempts to rock the situation were unsuccessful. The fighting that is now going on in the Donbass became possible only thanks to the actions of the team of ex-president Yanukovych ..............
              http://argumentua.com/stati/fsb-v-ukraine-terroristy-na-marshe

              Does it also set forth the holy truth? lol
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 6 September 2018 12: 24
        -4
        Quote: Vasily50
        some of the lower classes dared to start punish for murders * elite *,

        What "murders", who identified the perpetrators, why were hundreds of FIRST people shot, who were CLOSE to nowhere?
    5. NordUral
      NordUral 6 September 2018 16: 24
      +15
      White defended the opportunity to live comfortably at the expense of the people - this is the main reason for this terror. The Red Terror was retaliatory, forced. Of course, in moments of great upheaval, a dirty human foam emerges that roars and kills under the buzz of change. And do not attribute the acts of this foam to the entire Russian people. Like the atrocities of a part of the white army to the entire officers and soldiers of the White Guards.
      And the real beasts and bandits were foreign invaders, helping (in quotation marks) whites.

      And the present fully confirms what I said, albeit not in a clearly bloody form, but in fact, not much inferior to that terror. The power was seized by hucksters and thieves, who will arrange us no less terrible terror when people try to defend their rights. And you need to understand this.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 7 September 2018 08: 38
        -8
        Quote: NordUral
        White defended the opportunity to live comfortably at the expense of the people

        The people before the thief lived RICHer than after. Caught up with that level (barely, after the terrible battles for bread and battles for garlic) -only a few DECADES
        1. your1970
          your1970 13 September 2018 10: 14
          -1
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: NordUral
          White defended the opportunity to live comfortably at the expense of the people

          The people before the thief lived RICHer than after. Caught up with that level (barely, after the terrible battles for bread and battles for garlic) -only a few DECADES
          people lived richer to PMV - into which the tsar got involved ..... I wouldn’t have gotten involved - maybe there would have been no revolution
    6. Sweetheart
      Sweetheart 8 September 2018 18: 37
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      No, this appearance of the whites was a RESPONSE measure for the power seized by the losers, from which they defended their Fatherland.

      nonsense.
      Quote: Olgovich
      But it came only AFTER THE THIEF

      after 92 years, Yeltsin and K
      Quote: Olgovich
      Before her, he was flaying and shooting indiscriminately hostages

      Lying.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Neither the tsarist government nor the whites had such "class" slogans AT ALL.

      again a lie. S.V. Karpenko's “White Generals and the Red Trouble”, clearly describing the collapse of the rear of the White Movement in southern Russia and, as a result, the decomposition and, as a consequence, the decomposition of the White Army itself
      "The officer corps was increasingly diluted by those who joined the ranks of the army without much enthusiasm. Someone simply considered it their duty. Someone was brought into its ranks by comradely solidarity. Someone was driven by need. Someone could only fight and were looking for Someone possessed a blind thirst for revenge. And in someone they got the upper hand, trampling on honor and conscience, the basest instincts, the perception of war as a "legal" way to rob and plunder took root. When the army began to replenish by mobilization, among criminals and those who strove to use military uniforms and weapons to replenish their pockets and duffel bags inevitably ended up in it under duress.

      With the "wormhole" was also the replenishment of officers who arrived from Ukraine and Georgia. "
      Quote: Olgovich
      It was impossible to incite hatred and point to "enemies", provoking a massacre, it was necessary to work in the chosen CA and seek and find compromises for ALL citizens of Russia.

      WHITE and ANTANTA unleashed a civil war .. so blame yourself. With regards to your ridiculous campaigns about the US ...
      "So.
      Deputies of the Constituent Assembly, disagreeing with the Soviet regime, left Petrograd. In a number of regions, they created groups of their supporters who launched a struggle against the workers 'and peasants' government. The largest of them was formed in June 1918. in Samara - the Committee of Members of the Constituent Assembly (Komuch), chaired by V.K. Volsky (Socialist-Revolutionary activist, who signed a cooperation agreement with the Soviet government in 1919). After the formation of the Ufa Directory, headed by Social Revolutionary Avksentiev, the Committee was transformed into a Congress of members of the Constituent Assembly, which first met in Ufa, and then in Yekaterinburg, and united about 100 deputies. But already in November 1918. the Minister of War of the Government of the Directory Admiral Kolchak made a military coup, dissolved the directory (its leaders were arrested) and the Congress of Members of the Constituent Assembly (they were also arrested).

      Kolchak came to power through a military coup on November 18, 1918, overthrowing the "Interfactional Council of the Constituent Assembly" - Komuch and the Provisional Siberian Government-Directory, declared by the all-Russian government.

      Kolchak's accession to Siberia was not only the work of the Russian Black Hundred reaction, but also of the Entente imperialists, whose protege was the self-proclaimed "ruler of Russia."

      The direct executors of the plans of the Russian liberal bourgeoisie and the Anglo-American oligarchy were the Black-Hundred officers who arrested members of the Directory in Omsk on the night of November 18.

      The monarchist gang of Ataman Krasilnikov played an important role in the coup. "
      https://legarhan.livejournal.com/3413622.html
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 September 2018 09: 48
        -2
        Quote: The Swordsman
        nonsense.

        So do not rave.
        Quote: The Swordsman
        after 92 years, Yeltsin and K

        After the thief.
        Quote: The Swordsman
        again a lie.

        Bring white slogans to combat class enemies, liar.
        Quote: The Swordsman
        WHITE and ANTANTA unleashed a civil war .. so blame yourself.

        Civil war on October 25, 1917. Martov, 26 October, 2nd exit of the so-called. "advice" - "This is a Civil War!"
        invaders were sent ATTENTION far, far away: Don, Little Russia (Ukraine), Orenburg, Kuban, Finland, Moscow, Irkutsk, Kaluga, Kazan, the entire Volga region, Wed. Asia.
        Thousands of corpses in Moscow, dozens in Petrograd, hundreds of thousands are on strike
        This is not a war. fool
        1. Sweetheart
          Sweetheart 9 September 2018 11: 38
          -3
          Quote: Olgovich
          Bring white slogans to combat class enemies,

          Whose words - "We went to power in order to hang, but we had to hang in order to come to power"?
          Keep lying, Mr. Liar and Russophobe

          A few quotes.
          American General Graves: “In Eastern Siberia, for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were a hundred people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.”

          US officers Sayers and Kahn: "Hundreds of Russians who dared not submit to the new dictator (Kolchak) hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway."

          Russian writer William, who fought in the Denikin army: “In the middle of the village they dug a pole, tied it (the Red Army) higher; They wrapped a rope around the skull, stuck a stake through the rope and - a circular motion! At the end, the soldiers refused to turn, gentlemen, the officers took up. And suddenly we hear: crack! - the skull box shook ... An instructive sight. "

          Yeah, the sight is really instructive. Especially for those who listen with tenderness to songs about the noble lieutenants of the Golitsins and the Cornets of Obolensk. Please note: the soldiers could not stand it, refused, and these, "their nobility", gladly brought the torture to a spectacular ending. An instructive spectacle for Denikin’s current admirers, under whose leadership atrocities were committed in Novorossiysk, both in the dungeons of Denikin’s counterintelligence and right on the streets.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 September 2018 12: 45
            -3
            Quote: The Swordsman
            "We went to power in order to hang, but we had to hang to come to power?"

            T. liar. Once again I ask: WHERE are the white slogans calling for the struggle and annihilation of CLASS enemies, like the Bolsheviks? Do not bother your head!
            Quote: The Swordsman
            US officers Sayers and Kahn: "Hundreds of Russians who dared not submit to the new dictator (Kolchak) hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway."

            You completely and sadly nfoolish and fell into such deep Russophobia that I even feel sorry for you: the "American officers" lol fool was in 1919 to ....SEVEN let, they lived in...England in the rich Jewish families in Siberia have never been. Pasquille wrote on request and for denyuzhku. Well, you banged! lol lol
            Quote: The Swordsman
            Yeah, the sight is really instructive. Especially for those who listen with tenderness to songs about

            Again, steal other people's articles. Shame ... negative
            1. Sweetheart
              Sweetheart 9 September 2018 12: 49
              -3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Shame ...

              You are definitely.
              For you it is indicated who the author is, use it for free. However, not horse feed ..
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
    7. Sweetheart
      Sweetheart 9 September 2018 11: 54
      -1
      Quote: Olgovich

      It was impossible to incite hatred and point to "enemies", provoking a massacre,

      Political leaders of the Czechoslovak corps B. Paul and V. Girs in an official memorandum to the Allies in November 1919 stated: “Under the protection of Czechoslovak bayonets, the local Russian military authorities allow themselves actions that are horrified by the entire civilized world. The burning of villages, the beating of peaceful Russian citizens by hundreds, the shooting of representatives of democracy without trial on a simple suspicion of political unreliability is a common occurrence, and the responsibility for everything before the court of the peoples of the whole world lies with us: why, having military force, did not oppose this lawlessness. Irkutsk, November 13, 1919, to B. Pavel, Dr. Girsa. ”
      so keep quiet. at the expense of the slaughter .. you arranged, and you answer.
      From the diary of Minister of Government Kolchak, Baron Budberg, Alexei Pavlovich, the future American citizen: “Degenerates who arrived from the detachment boast that during punitive expeditions they gave the Bolsheviks to be slaughtered by the Chinese, having previously cut the tendons under their knees by prisoners (“ so as not to run away ”); they also boast that they buried the Bolsheviks alive, with a pit bottom floor with entrails released from the buried places (“so that it would be softer”) ... ”
    8. your1970
      your1970 13 September 2018 10: 11
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Before her flaying and the execution of indiscriminately hostages on a class basis, there was no slaughter.
      -hhh ....
      one of the translation options
      "For all your questions
      we give the answer:
      We have a lot of "maxims" -
      You have no "maxims"
      R. Kipling
      The shooting of attacking savages armed with spears from machine guns - ... no, no, not this is never a flak, these are the interests of England (which are above all !!) ....
  2. Mik13
    Mik13 6 September 2018 07: 09
    +27
    100 years ago, on 5 of September, 1917 of the year, an SNK decree was issued on the "Red Terror."

    Actually, 1918 of the year. Such typos in the first sentence of a historical article - it flies.
    Moreover, some commentators on the site simply do not know that in September 1917 there was no SNK yet ...
    1. businessv
      businessv 6 September 2018 16: 29
      +4
      Quote: Mik13
      Moreover, some commentators on the site simply do not know that in September 1917 there was no SNK yet ...

      A colleague, I think this is a typo - that the event happened 100 years ago because it was indicated correctly, not 99 wrote, but 100! smile
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 6 September 2018 07: 13
    +10
    For once, the author’s support. Civil war (any) is evil, in its purest form.
  4. bober1982
    bober1982 6 September 2018 07: 27
    +4
    If existed hell, which was established on the territory of the former Russian Empire, as the author of the article rightly mentioned, there were demonic creatures, which hell That’s the whole reason for the bloody massacre.
    Archchistically (in the language of Lenin), the fact that these very creatures (Satanic forces) have not disappeared, hid and are waiting in the wings.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 September 2018 07: 56
      +14
      Quote: bober1982
      Archchistically (in the language of Lenin), the fact that these very creatures (Satanic forces) have not disappeared, hid and are waiting in the wings.

      Take a look around. They are already everywhere. Their hour struck in 90's. They already rule us again ..
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 6 September 2018 16: 26
        +4
        Torn off the tongue, Boris.
    2. sunzhenets
      sunzhenets 8 September 2018 11: 28
      +6
      Quote: bober1982

      Archchistically (in the language of Lenin), the fact that these very creatures (Satanic forces) have not disappeared, hid and are waiting in the wings.

      Turn on the TV (a meeting of the government or the State Duma), they do not hide after 1991.
  5. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 07: 36
    -12
    The author is insolent. smile Such hutspas are attempts to justify red terror with a kind of "epidemic of psychological violence." The author either pretends or does not notice that anarchy in Russia acquired just mass character precisely after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. It was precisely after this that the thought was entrenched in the mass consciousness: “what is now possible?”. And it was then that all sorts of “independent people” and Makhnovists came into the world. And it was precisely the Red Terror that led to the surge of pathological cruelty — people, looking at the insane reprisals committed by the Bolshevik “power” over fellow citizens, began to perceive murders and torture as an integral part of life. So it is not surprising that whites, striving to restore law and order, treated the zealous Bolsheviks without mercy. Plague rats that set people against each other and repair atrocities have not been spared anywhere and never.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 September 2018 08: 04
      +8
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      So it is not surprising that whites, striving to restore law and order, treated the zealous Bolsheviks without mercy

      What order did the whites seek? The one who allowed them to trade slaves like some kind of cattle? Have you read Dead Souls at school? What was Chichikov buying from podshovka there? And how many gentlemen of the villages lost at cards? As the saying goes: "With what greetings, with this and the answer" and not figs now here snot all over the forum to smear.

      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 08: 25
        -2
        Boris, you will forgive me for an immodest question: but what are you, at school did you skip history lessons in the most unscrupulous way? But after all, any eighth grader now knows about the abolition of serfdom and about the fact that after 1861, the sale of villages and even more so people was a criminal offense. As well as about the fact that the realities you describe refer to 1917 approximately as Roman legions to modern Italy.
      2. Nick_R
        Nick_R 6 September 2018 09: 56
        -2
        The one that allowed them to trade slaves like some kind of cattle

        You may not be aware, but by the time of the events described serfdom was abolished as 57 years ago. And no one was going to restore it, if you have other facts - please go to the studio. By the way, the revolutionaries killed the tsar-liberator, because by his decree he prevented the organization of a revolution in Russia.
        Again, for information, many peasants did not really want to receive this personal freedom. Because the word freedom was an empty phrase for them, they needed land. But it turned out that with the lord-bloodsucker they paid much less for land than with freedom.
        By the way, I am generally very moved by such attention of red authors to the freedom of the peasants. Directly sort of communist-liberals (for those ignorant of the "liberal" - freedom), smacks of internal antagonism, don't you think?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 6 September 2018 10: 30
          +10
          Quote: Nick_R
          serfdom was abolished as 57 years ago.

          Before the Romanovs came to power, the land belonged to peasants. By the end of their reign, all land belonged to the landlords. And where should the poor peasant go?

          The abolition of serfdom - this is just an element to improve profit making, issued as a blessing. Finally, the Decembrists' dream came true - the land completely passed to the landlords.

          Not for nothing that one of the first decrees of Soviet power was a decree on land. After 57 years, people remembered on whose land they live.

          1. Boris55
            Boris55 6 September 2018 10: 48
            +10
            In addition, for 57 years. The Soviet power was canceled by 1953, but after 65 years we also remember what it gave to ordinary people.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 6 September 2018 11: 24
              -15
              Quote: Boris55
              but after 65 years we remember what she gave to ordinary people.


              Wow - terror, war, lack of freedom and hunger
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 6 September 2018 12: 35
                +15
                Quote: Gopnik
                Wow - terror, war, lack of freedom and hunger

                Do not worry. We and Chubais with his vouchers will not be forgotten and we will tell children about their grandchildren.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 6 September 2018 15: 03
                  -7
                  Duc and right, comrade. Chubais is a member of the Komsomol, a member of the party and in general the foster child of the Soviet system Go to school and university in Marxism-Leninism and political economy always had "excellent".
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 6 September 2018 15: 56
                    +10
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    Chubais is a Komsomolets member of the party and, in general, extortion of the Soviet system.

                    I wrote above - Soviet power ended in 1953. Then Chubais was not in the project either. He is the fosterling of the Trotskyists who realized their dream in the 90's.
                    1. Flavius
                      Flavius 6 September 2018 16: 02
                      -5
                      Quote: Boris55
                      I wrote above - Soviet power ended in 1953

                      What kind of crap is this power that is inextricably linked to the existence of only one person?
                      What kind of ruler is he who, for 30 years of power, could not prepare a successor? And what is the mental level of the people who mourn over such a stupid power and such an incorruptible ruler?
                    2. Nick_R
                      Nick_R 6 September 2018 21: 42
                      -6
                      He is the fosterling of the Trotskyists who realized their dream in the 90s.

                      Trotsky was hacked to death with an ice pick back in the thirties, but it turns out that his work lived on, and not just lived, but outlived the "most alive of the living" comrades Lenin and Stalin, and after two decades finally won on 1/5 of the land. Listen to you, so you are composing odes to the Trotskyists, such a strength to them.
                      The truth is not clear why the Trotskyist Chubais destroyed the Trotskyist state of Khrushchev, Brezhnev and other comrades, and most importantly why he was also bad at the same time, somehow not logical. . . However, why am I suddenly talking about logic, it seems to be inappropriate here.
                  2. businessv
                    businessv 6 September 2018 18: 06
                    +9
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    Go to school and university on Marxism-Leninism and political economy always had "excellent".

                    I don’t know what this redhead ... had at school, but under EBN he helped all current oligarchs to fuck all the people, dividing the whole country among themselves.
                  3. albert
                    albert 6 September 2018 21: 44
                    +6
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    Go to school and university on Marxism-Leninism and political economy always had "excellent".

                    Hmm, the whole government is doing the same thing! laughing
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 6 September 2018 13: 18
                -6
                Quote: Gopnik
                Wow - terror, war, lack of freedom and hunger

                And hard labor, practically unpaid work, this applies primarily to peasants, primarily Russian peasants.
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 9 September 2018 13: 20
                  -2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  And hard labor, practically unpaid work, this applies primarily to peasants, primarily Russian peasants.

                  Priya Romanovs.
                  otherwise, how do some talkers explain the purchase by collective farmers of tanks and aircraft for the Red Army?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 September 2018 09: 11
                    -2
                    Quote: The Swordsman
                    Priya Romanovs.

                    When you VKP (second serfdom).
                    1. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 11 September 2018 19: 09
                      -2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      second serfdom

                      Lies.
            2. Nick_R
              Nick_R 9 September 2018 14: 04
              0
              The Soviet power was abolished in 1953, but after 65 years we remember what it gave to ordinary people.

              The country's return to the neo-feudal system, in which power was transferred not by inheritance, but as a result of an undercover struggle within the ruling elite. History has already gone through like this 700 years before, let’s recall at least the Mamluk rule in Egypt.
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 6 September 2018 11: 23
            -4
            Quote: Boris55
            By the end of their reign, all land belonged to the landlords.


            Utter nonsense!
          3. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 11: 35
            -3
            Quote: Boris55
            Before the Romanovs came to power, the land belonged to peasants. By the end of their reign, all land belonged to the landlords. And where should the poor peasant go?

            Boris, tell me, did you go to school at all? wink The enslavement of peasants began in 1497, the Judicial Code of Ivan III.
            57. ABOUT THE PEASANT'S FAILURE. And the peasants refuse from the volost (to the volost), from village to village at one time a year, a week before St. George’s autumn day and within a week after St. George’s autumn day (November 26). Surviving for yards (let the peasants) pay in the fields at the rate of a ruble per yard, and in the forests a half a yard (per yard). If a peasant lives with someone for a year and walks away, then (let) he will pay (lived for) a quarter of the yard; if he lives two years and goes away, then (let) he will pay (lived for) the backyard; if he lives three years and goes away, then (let) he will pay (lived for) three quarters of the yard; if he lives four years, then (let) he will pay (lived) for the whole yard.
            http://his95.narod.ru/1497_1.htm
            This is the reign of the Rurikovich, until the accession of the Romanovs even more than a hundred years!
            1. sunzhenets
              sunzhenets 8 September 2018 11: 32
              +2
              Under Ivan III, serfdom was more like a lease of land.
          4. fuxila
            fuxila 6 September 2018 16: 45
            -1
            Why is it that in Russia all the land by 1917 belonged to the landlords? Why write such nonsense? I will not waste time searching for exact numbers, but the fact is that there were no landlords in Siberia, the Far East or the Russian North, and this alone refutes your lie. And, second, what should people remember after 57 years? The peasants wanted to receive land for personal land use, and in the USSR it became state, and they themselves turned into collective farmers, i.e. agricultural workers. Since childhood, I worked on collective farm fields, first at school, and then at the institute, so I never noticed that collective farmers went and thanked the party for giving them the opportunity to work on state property. It would be as strange as if a turner, coming to the workshop, proclaimed toasts in honor of the CPSU for giving him the opportunity to sharpen parts on the machine.
          5. Nick_R
            Nick_R 6 September 2018 21: 33
            +2
            Before the Romanovs came to power, the land belonged to peasants.

            What a news! You have to doctorally write on this topic, it will be a historical bomb.
            In the meantime, you have not made historical science happy with your work, I note that according to OFFICIAL data, Ivan the Terrible canceled the Yury days for the first time, and finally Alexei Mikhailovich Romanov. But the presence of St. George's Day just confirms the dependence of the peasant on the master. Leaving on another day for another master, the peasant, as you know, could not take the land with him.
            At that time, there was STATE ownership of land in the local sense of this, when the state in a single person was the monarch who gave the land for temporary or permanent use to his vassals for service. And they, in turn, gave the right to use the land to the peasant for corvee or quitrent. Under any property of the peasants on land under Rurikovich, there was no question.
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 6 September 2018 09: 57
        -8
        Quote: Boris55
        What order did the whites strive for? The one that allowed them slave how some kind of cattle?

        What are you carrying? The Constitution of Russia in 1905 gave such real freedom to people they couldn’t even dream of.
        Quote: Boris55
        then there Chichikov bought podshovke? And how many gentlemen of the villages lost at cards? As the saying goes: "With what greetings, with such an answer" and not figs now there is snot to smear all over the forum

        Those times were a fairy tale compared to those when Millions of peasants, including A MILLION of children, without trial, were completely robbed and thrown into the North in 1930-33, where they worked as slaves, including and children.
      4. Gopnik
        Gopnik 6 September 2018 11: 23
        -4
        You write some nonsense. None of the whites fought for the restoration of serfdom, the Reds fought for it - they liquidated all civil rights and drove the peasants into collective farms
      5. fuxila
        fuxila 6 September 2018 16: 10
        +1
        Boris, you are strikingly illiterate what kind of slaves and village cards lost in 1917, even if the Minister of Railways Rukhlov was a peasant.
        1. your1970
          your1970 13 September 2018 10: 22
          0
          Quote: fuxila
          Boris, you are strikingly illiterate what kind of slaves and village cards lost in 1917, even if the Minister of Railways Rukhlov was a peasant.
          -you when distorting, be careful ...
          His Father were from peasants
          "father, Rukhlov, Vasily Nikitich provincial secretary of the Vologda province, peasant origin, landowner (an estate of 636 dessiatines in the Vologda province near the villages of Antsiferkoy and Nechayevo),"
          1. fuxila
            fuxila 13 September 2018 14: 55
            0
            I don’t have a habit of juggling, I always try to be precise, but at the same time, like any person, I can be wrong. Minister Sergei Rukhlov belonged to the peasant class as well as his father, Vasily, and the press of that time also emphasized the peasant origin of Minister Rukhlov, not his father. The fact that he became a minister did not automatically make him a nobleman, just as a nobleman who worked as a machinist (like Minister of the PS Prince Khilkov) did not become the face of some lower class. I read in the archives of the questionnaire of the drivers, where they indicated that they were nobles, Cossacks, etc. Belonging to any class was recorded in the documents, so the assistant chief of the railway service of the Amur railway. A.I. The scam is also listed on the management board as a peasant.
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 6 September 2018 08: 24
      +9
      Lieutenant !!! You sometimes write sensibly and in something I agree with you! But the fact that anarchy has become widespread after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks is fundamentally wrong !!! It was the Bolsheviks who began to limit this very anarchy, which, incidentally, is also one of the causes of GV and terror in particular
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 6 September 2018 09: 25
        -1
        Dear Nehist, I allow myself to disagree with you. For example, we can consider the problem of desertion from the army. The first surge of desertion occurred in the period from February to May 1917. The second, much larger - after the October seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. https://cyberleninka.ru/article/v/dezertiry-v-revolyutsii-1917-g
        The same situation developed in the political sphere - Finland declared independence only after October, because an attempt to do the same in the summer of 1917 led to the introduction of Russian troops into Helsingfors and the dissolution of the Finnish Senate. Ukrainian "samostiiniki" announced the creation of the UPR in November 1917.
        That is, the Bolsheviks "heroically" tried to put out the fire, which they themselves kindled.
      2. Nick_R
        Nick_R 6 September 2018 10: 04
        0
        You are only partly right. Anarchy began to acquire a mass character even after the February Revolution. But it reached its peak only under the Bolsheviks, when every rabble vividly became convinced that it turns out that power can be obtained simply by force of arms, spitting on the majority opinion.
        By the way, if it were not for the help of the anarchists, Batka Makhno, with whom Trotsky personally negotiated twice, then perhaps the Bolsheviks would not have stayed in power back in 1918. We also remember how "decently" the Bolsheviks did with their ally Makhno.
    3. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 6 September 2018 16: 26
      +8
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      And it was precisely the Red Terror that led to the surge of pathological cruelty — people, looking at the insane reprisals committed by the Bolshevik “power” over fellow citizens, began to perceive murders and torture as an integral part of life.

      that is, you say that until 1918 all were humanists? until 1918 was there anything like this? Seriously? do you think there was no white terror? and the attacks preceding the Red Terror also probably weren’t?
      don’t you find that you are distorting the story? I do not know how to call the conviction with foam at the mouth of one side and the complete silence of the bloody crimes of the other side.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 7 September 2018 08: 44
        -6
        Quote: SanichSan
        then until 1918 were all humanists? until 1918 was there anything like this? Seriously?

        To the thief there was nothing of the kind. After the thief and dispersal, the US-started.
        such a "strange" coincidence.
        1. Sweetheart
          Sweetheart 9 September 2018 13: 21
          -4
          Quote: Olgovich
          Before the Thief, there was nothing like this.

          after Yeltsin and K? Of course .. such a country’s dribbling has begun. Mama Do not Cry ..
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 September 2018 09: 12
            -1
            Quote: The Swordsman
            after Yeltsin and K? Of course .. such a country’s dribbling has begun. Mama Do not Cry ..

            After the thief it all started
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 6 September 2018 16: 27
      +10
      Anarchy spawned in February, Teterin.
    5. Sweetheart
      Sweetheart 9 September 2018 11: 43
      -1
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      insolent

      it’s you not that goal .. it's time to beat yourself like that.
      Further, I quote the book of the Americans M. Sayers and A. Kahn "The Secret War against Soviet Russia."

      “Every day, his (Graves) intelligence officers supplied him with new information about the kingdom of terror, which Kolchak established. There were 100 thousand soldiers in the admiral’s army, and new thousands of people were recruited into it under the threat of execution. Prisons and concentration camps were packed to capacity.

      Hundreds of Russians, daring not to submit to the new dictator, hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway. Many rested in common graves, which they were ordered to dig before the Kolchak executioners destroyed them with machine gun fire. Murders and robberies have become an everyday occurrence. ”

      “General Grevs did not hide the disgust that the atrocities of the anti-Soviet troops in Siberia caused him, which earned him a hostile attitude from the White Guard, English, French and Japanese command. Kolchak’s agents began harassment against Graves in order to undermine prestige and achieve his recall from Siberia.

      In the midst of a slanderous campaign, General Greves came to the headquarters sent from General Ivanov-Rynov, who commanded Kolchak units in Eastern Siberia. He told Grevs that if he undertakes to give Kolchak’s army monthly $ 20 thousand, General Ivanov-Rynov will make sure that the campaign against Grevs and his troops ceases.

      This Ivanov-Rynov, even among the generals of Kolchak, stood out as a monster and a sadist. In Eastern Siberia, his soldiers exterminated the entire male population in the villages where, according to their suspicions, the Bolsheviks were harboring. Women were raped and beaten with ramrods. Killed indiscriminately - the elderly, women, children.

      One young American officer, sent to investigate the atrocities of Ivanov-Rynov, was so shocked that, ending his report to Grevs, he exclaimed: “For God's sake, General, do not send me more with such instructions!” Just a little more - and I would have torn off my uniform and would have saved these unfortunate people. ”
      I have a lot of things to convict you of complete lies. Together with the arrogant liar-olgovich.
  6. Flavius
    Flavius 6 September 2018 10: 23
    -5
    Secondly, the Red Terror was an extreme, forced, retaliatory measure to protect socialist fatherland

    What kind of Fatherland is this socialist, whose is it? The fatherland of a handful of Jews, Latvians, Georgians and other rabble, who himself invented this "fatherland" for himself.
    Normal people do not care about such a "fatherland". And, consequently, the Red Terror is a criminal, unjustifiable act.
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 6 September 2018 16: 36
      +12
      Quote: Flavius
      What kind of Fatherland is this socialist, whose is it?

      oh well it's not hard to explain wink these are the very ones who are now commonly called by the liberals "the wrong people", that is, 90% of the country's population. yes, the very ones who supported the Bolsheviks and defeated both the White Guards and the Entente.
      Quote: Flavius
      Normal people do not care about such a "fatherland".

      many officers supported this fatherland. for example, the legend of the first world Brusilov.
      Quote: Flavius
      And, therefore, the Red Terror is a criminal, unjustifiable act.

      Well, you do not slow down half the way. then the white terror and the terror of the interventionists and the terrorist attacks of the essays and the atrocities of Makhno and ... in general of all. it somehow goes wrong, the provisional government has brewed porridge, and the Bolsheviks are to blame for everything.
      1. Flavius
        Flavius 6 September 2018 16: 52
        -7
        Quote: SanichSan
        these are the very ones who are now called the "wrong people" among the liberals, that is, 90% of the country's population

        And do you really think that in 17, when thanks to a gang of foreigners this very "Fatherland" arose, it was directly supported by 90% of the people? From St. Petersburg to Kamchatka? And with whom did the civil war go on for three years - with the remaining 10 percent?
        Does this not indicate the mental level of people who controlled 90 percent?
        Quote: SanichSan
        many officers supported this fatherland. for example, the legend of the first world Brusilov.

        This legend is a banal sworn oath. The legend shortly before that kissed the tsar’s hands with tears in his eyes and after a short time did not give a damn about the oath. Also, the other officers who supported Soviet power.
        Quote: SanichSan
        then white terror

        Whites are the successors of legitimate authority. There are no questions to them. The rest is scum.
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 6 September 2018 17: 22
          +10
          Quote: Flavius
          And do you really think that in 17, when thanks to a gang of foreigners this very "Fatherland" arose, it was directly supported by 90% of the people? From St. Petersburg to Kamchatka? And with whom did the civil war go on for three years - with the remaining 10 percent?

          Yes, it exaggerated somewhat, but the vast majority of the population supported precisely the Bolsheviks. this is a historical fact, for otherwise about 3000 Bolsheviks available for 1917 could not have done anything. without the support of the country's population, this bunch of revolutionaries did not shine. and who were these people who supported the Bolsheviks? do you know them of course not request Kolchak yes, Denikin yes, Lenin yes, and who is everyone else? Lenin didn’t meander to Kolchak’s own face. until you understand that there were still millions of citizens of the Russian Empire who supported the Bolsheviks and don’t think about why it happened at that time, you will look for the guilty instead of analyzing the situation.
          Quote: Flavius
          Does this not indicate the mental level of people who controlled 90 percent?

          Ltd! belay Do you also have doubts about the last autocrat and the interim government about the mental abilities and suitability for governing the state?
          Quote: Flavius
          This legend is a banal sworn oath. The legend shortly before that kissed the tsar’s hands with tears in his eyes and after a short time did not give a damn about the oath. Also, the other officers who supported Soviet power.

          yes, yes. someone betrayed both his tsar and his fatherland and how the White Guards went to serve the interventionists, while someone could not betray their homeland and joined the Bolsheviks. the second, in my opinion, is much more decent wink
          Quote: Flavius
          Whites are the successors of legitimate authority. There are no questions to them. The rest is scum.

          sorry, but rather officers with low social responsibility who decided to serve the invaders for a piece of empire. they betrayed their emperor to all officer kagal, also their homeland. and their further adventures in 1941 - 1945 confirm their baseness and loathing.
          1. Flavius
            Flavius 6 September 2018 17: 41
            -4
            The overwhelming majority of the people were absolutely put on the Bolsheviks and the tsar and the Cadets. This is his misfortune and fault. Most did not want to fight, they wanted to eat sweetly and sleep softly. It was inert and that is why a bunch of decisive scumbags deftly managed to get the people on the neck, having previously clogged his brains with Jewish fables.
            And do not bullshit about the fact that the people supported the Bolsheviks. My grandfather was one of the first to join the collective farm, but he did this not out of love for power, but only because he did not want to sit. So is everyone else.
            No, well, the rural drunks supported of course - they became chairmen and foremen))
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 6 September 2018 18: 02
              +10
              Quote: Flavius
              The overwhelming majority of the people were absolutely put on the Bolsheviks and the tsar and the Cadets.

              interesting ... that is, all the same, in your opinion, did Lenin personally beat Kolchak with his face? and of whom then was the Red Army? or are these people too small for such a great historian like you?
              Quote: Flavius
              No, well, the rural drunks supported of course - they became chairmen and foremen))

              gorgeous! That is, the Red Army is your bunch of "rural drunks"? that is, Americans from Arkhangelsk skedaddle from rural drunks? and what, too, rural drunks took digging? Did the same rural drunks defeat Makhno's gang?
              Yeah...
              I understand that you have a hero SSovsky General Krasnov? if so, then it's probably time to start a discussion. nothing to talk about soldier
              PS
              and this ... if you suddenly "rural drunks" lift the pitchfork, then do not be surprised "and we are for sho?!?". it's all from not knowing your history and not being able to draw conclusions wink
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 6 September 2018 18: 51
              +5
              Quote: Flavius
              My grandfather was one of the first to join the collective farm, but he did this not out of love for power, but only because he did not want to sit.

              He was made an offer that he could not refuse? laughing It is interesting: who did it, because of what (in the sense of what your grandfather slept on, that he would inevitably have to be planted), in which year? And, most importantly, do you have evidence that your grandfather did not lie to you?
              1. Flavius
                Flavius 6 September 2018 19: 00
                -3
                Quote: HanTengri
                He was made an offer that he could not refuse? It is interesting: who did it, because of what (in the sense of what your grandfather slept on, that he would inevitably have to be planted), in which year?

                He rolled boots in the village, because of this the Communists thought that he had gold and was taken to the authorities five times, where they tried to find out where he was hiding it. They didn’t know.
                Naturally, after this it is better to immediately join the collective farm and not play with fate.
                About a gang of foreigners in more detail possible?

                This is well known and not interesting to everyone - start from Bronstein and continue all the way to Dzhugashvili. There are thousands of them.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 13 September 2018 10: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Flavius
                  He rolled boots in the village, because of this the Communists thought that he had gold and was taken to the authorities five times, where they tried to find out where he was hiding it. They didn’t know.
                  -Do you seriously believe that with five times (!!!!!!) it is impossible to learn something from a person ??? and even in the terrible basements of the "bloody Cheki"? !!! well, well .... you don't even need to beat for that ....
                  Your grandfather lied - like a gray gelding ....
                  Z.Y. and yes! - maybe all the same yours Great-grandfather? well, or you for 70 with a hook? specify?
                  1. Flavius
                    Flavius 13 September 2018 10: 46
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    -Do you seriously believe that five times (!!!!!!) it is impossible to learn something from a person ???

                    It's hard to know if there is nothing to learn. There was no gold and my grandfather could not give birth to it even for the sake of the "bloody check". Of course, he could admit himself a spy, but he was not asked about it.
                    Put more exclamation points, otherwise it’s not enough emotional smile
                    Quote: your1970
                    and yes! -can still your great-grandfather? well, or you over 70 with a hook? specify?

                    My grandfather was born in 1898 and fought in the First and Second World Wars. I am much less than 70. Almost two times. It happens.
              2. Nick_R
                Nick_R 6 September 2018 21: 50
                -5
                And, most importantly, do you have evidence that your grandfather did not lie to you?

                Do you have proof that you are sane? Evidence versus evidence.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 7 September 2018 08: 57
            -3
            Quote: SanichSan
            but the vast majority of the population supported precisely the Bolsheviks. this is a historical fact

            How did you determine this? Five (FIVE!) Percent of the population took part in the slaughterhouse. The rest just survived. This is FACT 5.
            In the elections, where 50% of the population took part, the Bolsheviks defeated. This is FACT 2. No one else and NEVER held elections in the country — their Bolsheviks were afraid more than the devil. This is FACT 3.
            Quote: SanichSan
            but someone could not betray their homeland joined the Bolsheviks

            They betrayed their homeland, for which they overwhelmingly received deserved reward from the owners-PULU. Share.
            Quote: SanichSan
            rather, officers with low social responsibility who decided to serve the invaders for a piece of empire.

            You mixed up: not the whites, but the Bolsheviks ALWAYS gave a third of the country German-Turkish invaders, supplied them with gold, bread, soldiers. Forgot?
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 6 September 2018 17: 56
          +4
          Quote: Flavius
          And you really believe that in the year 17, when thanks to a gang of foreigners

          Is there more detail about the gang of foreigners? Names, there, passwords, appearances, positions, who "covered" ... laughing
        3. Claymore
          Claymore 6 September 2018 20: 33
          +7
          Quote: Flavius
          Whites - successors to legitimate authority

          Please remind me how the power you mentioned became legal.
          And also remind about who and under what circumstances accepted the abdication of this power
          1. Flavius
            Flavius 6 September 2018 21: 23
            -2
            Quote: Claymore
            Please remind me how the power you mentioned became legal.
            And also remind about who and under what circumstances accepted the abdication of this power

            Well, "comrade", everyone knows that. Mikhail Romanov handed over power to the Provisional Government before the Constituent Assembly was held. Whites fought for this very meeting.
            All these figures swore allegiance to the provisional government - from Brusilov to Commander-in-Chief Kamenev. Which then again maliciously "beaten" on the oath.
            I do not idealize whites, among them two-thirds of Christ-sellers like Alekseev or Kornilov. But there were also worthy people - Wrangel, Kutepov, Drozdovsky, Shkuro, Markov, etc.
            At your brethren, wherever you spit, you will find yourself in Jonah Yakir or in Apfelbaum, which you yourself later recognized as enemies of the people. Here's a laugh laughing Blind leaders of the blind.
            1. Claymore
              Claymore 7 September 2018 06: 32
              +4
              Quote: Flavius
              Mikhail Romanov handed over power to the Provisional Government before the Constituent Assembly

              From the legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia that was in force at that time, it did not provide for the existence of an EaP with the CSS, and did not provide for the transfer to these authorities.

              White and fought for this very meeting

              The Wrangel you mentioned -

              "Listen, Russian people, what are we fighting for:
              For the desecrated faith [for which slavery and the exploitation of man by man is the norm] and its sanctified insults
              [insult expressed in the termination of funding].
              For the liberation of the Russian people from the yoke of the communists, vagabonds and convicts who completely ruined Holy Russia [ruin was expressed in the prohibition of exploitation and the establishment of social guarantees for workers].
              For the termination of the internecine [which began with the "ice campaign"] battle.
              For the peasant, acquiring the land they cultivate, engaged in peaceful work.
              For true freedom and law [in the understanding of the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie] to reign in Russia.
              For the Russian people themselves would choose a master."


              And not a word about the founding party, which in the 17th was a means, not an end.

              Actually, everything is clear with you - the list of "worthy people" speaks for itself.
              But you never recalled - how did the power you mentioned become legal? )))
              1. Flavius
                Flavius 7 September 2018 07: 29
                0
                The legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia and the abdication of the emperor did not provide, but at the very least, the king denied and had to live on. Therefore, the army swore allegiance to the Provisional Government and the Allies recognized it. Based on this, it follows that the VP was legitimate at that time.
                And there were no others at that moment, so your doubts, the proletariat, are inappropriate here.
                "Choose owner" - this is about DC.
                Although you are a proletarian, you must understand the simplest things. Grades 7 then finished?
                1. Claymore
                  Claymore 7 September 2018 13: 37
                  +3
                  Quote: Flavius
                  The legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia and the abdication of the emperor did not provide

                  Therefore, it is only for this reason that whites cannot be continuers of legitimate authority.

                  Based on this it follows that the EP was legitimate at that time

                  1 The concept of legitimacy is not the same as the concept of legality.
                  2 "The army swore allegiance" = VP was legitimate in the army, but not in society.
                  3 The legitimacy that exists at a particular moment may disappear at the next moment (which is what happened).

                  So why did you suddenly decide that whites were the successors of legitimate authority?

                  "Choose owner" - this is about DC.

                  From only in the process of choosing the owner, it was decided not to choose the owner - with this, in the end, the majority of society agreed (ie, the "dispersal" of the constituent assembly became legitimate, and the activities of the Soviets both legitimate and legal).

                  But you again did not remind - how did the power you mentioned, whose successors you consider whites, suddenly become legal?
                  1. Flavius
                    Flavius 7 September 2018 21: 05
                    0
                    Quote: Claymore
                    But you again did not remind - how did the power you mentioned, whose successors you consider whites, suddenly become legal?

                    Well then, "comrade", the only legitimate power is the power of the sovereign of the emperor from the Romanov dynasty, to whom the people swore in 1613. The abdication of Nicholas is illegal - and he is the legitimate ruler.
                    In principle, I think so. Then, all the more, the presence in the ranks of the white movement of the mass of monarchists makes this movement necessary and correct.
                    In any situation, the German spies Blank and Bronstein have no relation to the legitimate authority. Nobody chose them and nominated them.
                    1. Claymore
                      Claymore 8 September 2018 02: 00
                      +2
                      Quote: Flavius
                      Well then, "comrade", the only legitimate power is the power of the sovereign emperor from the Romanov dynasty, to whom the people swore allegiance in 1613

                      But this is the most interesting. )))

                      The population of the territory occupied by the Republic of Ingushetia never swore to any of the dynasties (the aristocracy swore - 2-3% of the population) and never chose any of the dynasties (the population was simply not asked whether it was according to it or not).

                      The population also did not give consent to the transfer of power by inheritance, to the establishment of serfdom and to the maintenance of princes / kings / aristocracy at their own expense.
                      But all this took place due to the fact that the princes, and then the kings, initially took power and established the laws / rules favorable to them by force of arms - i.e., in fact, they did exactly the same thing that they did in the 90s Organized crime groups involved in racketeering.

                      So with what joy did you suddenly decide that the emperor from the Romanov dynasty and his ancestors, who acquired, maintained and maintained their position by force of arms, were the legitimate authority?
                      On what grounds were they the legitimate authority - on the basis of laws that they themselves invented and forcibly approved? )))

                      In any case, the German spies Blank

                      Please tell me - who was "German spy Blank" spying on in Western Europe?

                      Nobody chose them and nominated them.

                      Here they just chose.
                      1. Flavius
                        Flavius 8 September 2018 08: 15
                        -1
                        Stop, "comrade", I understood everything - Mother Russia suffered for a thousand years and suffered from timelessness and dashing rulers until the masses of the people gave birth to comrades Blank, Bronstein and Dzhugashvili, who joined them, who embodied all the aspirations of these masses and led them to bright future.
                        It is strange that I had not guessed before.
                        I just don’t remember when my grandfathers chose this carrion for power laughing Can you tell me the exact number?
                        And when did you vote for the formation of collective farms?
                      2. Claymore
                        Claymore 9 September 2018 05: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: Flavius
                        Stop, "comrade", I understood everything - Mother Russia suffered and suffered for a thousand years

                        1 Russia did not suffer, most of the population suffered.

                        2 You did not answer the questions.

                        3 Your grandfathers are not the whole population.

                        The working people chose Soviet power - they chose because of the form of production relations proposed by the socialists.
                        And this form suggested, including ensuring food security of the population = increase in productivity = enlargement of farms - hence collective farms.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 7 September 2018 09: 11
                -3
                Quote: Claymore
                But you never recalled - how did the power you mentioned become legal? )))

                Mikhail Romanov transferred (before the DC) the power of the VP.
                The CSS took place, after dispersal, its members declared the Russian state. He was recognized by all the whites. Those. everything is legal. What's not clear?

                so called "Soviet" power was not elected by ANYONE.
                The fundamental so-called The 2nd Congress of Soviets is ILLEGAL, even from the point of view of the Soviets themselves, and is called the LAWFUL CEC only "meeting of the Bolsheviks", for the cunning Bolsheviks invited the delegates .... basically, their delegates. The peasant congress of councils (and peasants is 85% of the country) also did NOT recognize the 2nd congress.
                And more elections have never been anywhere for 70 years.
                1. Claymore
                  Claymore 7 September 2018 14: 30
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Mikhail Romanov transferred (before CSS) the power of the VP

                  The legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia did not provide for the possibility of such a transfer of power - therefore, the actions of Mikhail Romanov, as well as the very existence of the EaP, were illegal.

                  The CSS took place, after dispersal, its members declared the Russian state. He was recognized by all the whites. Those. everything is legal. What's not clear?

                  With the release of the Bolsheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries, the CSS lost the established quorum, as a result of which its further work could not be continued.
                  The remaining deputies of the CC did not give a damn about the lack of a quorum and tried to continue making decisions related to the jurisdiction of the CA (and not to the jurisdiction of the part of the CA that did not have a quorum) = made an attempt to usurp power, but could not agree and were eventually "dispersed" by Zheleznyakov, after whereupon the governing body of the Congress of Soviets issued a decree on the dissolution of the US.

                  So what and to whom it is not clear?

                  so-called NOBODY elected "Soviet" power

                  Tips are elected bodies. So someone elected them. )))

                  The fundamental so-called The 2nd Congress of Soviets is ILLEGAL even from the point of view of the Soviets themselves

                  Legality is compliance with the law.
                  The activities of the EaP and the Law of the Republic of Ingushetia were not provided for by the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia (= was illegal), and the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia were established by force of arms against the will of the majority and did not correlate with the principles of law.

                  And more elections have never been anywhere for 70 years.

                  In an alternative reality, it probably was.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 8 September 2018 07: 05
                    -5
                    Quote: Claymore
                    RI legislation did not provide for the possibility of such a transfer of power

                    The monarch is the HIGHEST power, according to the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia. Those. He had the right that he did-postpone the perception of the throne to the CSS.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    With the release of the Bolsheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries lost established quorum, as a result of which his further work could not be continued.

                    None of the Bolsheviks have such an argument. Not even a word! Appeared ... after the collapse of the USSR lol
                    Quote: Claymore
                    Tips are elected bodies. So someone elected them.

                    NOT free, indirect, unequal, not universal, indirect. This is an election only for s.
                    Quote: Claymore
                    Legality is compliance with the law.
                    The activities of the EaP and the Law were not provided for by the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia (= was illegal), but they themselves RI laws were established by force of arms contrary to the will of the majority, they did not correlate with the principles of law.

                    what a nonsense
                    Quote: Claymore
                    In an alternative reality, it probably was.

                    So it was all 70 le Bolshevik authorities: you were afraid of outbursts, like a devil incense. And not in vain ....
                    1. Claymore
                      Claymore 9 September 2018 06: 25
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The monarch is the SUPREME power, according to the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia. Those. had the right

                      The monarch had the right to amend the succession act and after that, in accordance with the new edition of the act, transfer power to the subject that was provided for by the new edition.
                      However, the act of succession to the throne was not changed, as a result of which the actions of Mikhail, who was not even crowned (and therefore was not a monarch), are a little more illegal than completely. )))

                      None of the Bolsheviks have such an argument

                      Here the subject of discussion is not the argument of the Bolsheviks, but the rule of law in RI / RR - is it clear, no?

                      NOT FREE, INDIRECT

                      Will there be evidence of this?

                      what a nonsense

                      The military seizure of neighboring territories and enslavement of half the population - is this nonsense?

                      So it was all 70 le

                      For 70 years, elections were held regularly (with the exception of the Great Patriotic War period).
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 September 2018 10: 06
                        -2
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The monarch had the right to amend the succession act and after that, in accordance with the new edition of the act, transfer power to the subject that was provided for by the new edition.
                        However, the act of succession to the throne was not changed, as a result of which the actions of Mikhail, who was not even crowned (and therefore was not a monarch), are a little more illegal than completely. )))

                        The monarch had the right to do EVERYTHING that he wished and therefore wrote the Manifesto. From the moment the Manifesto was signed by Nicholas, Michael became Emperor. Delayed the perception of the throne, had the right as a monarch.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Here the subject of discussion is not the argument of the Bolsheviks, but the rule of law in RI / RR - is it clear, no?

                        Sclers? And this WHO wrote (to which I replied)
                        With the release of the Bolsheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries, the CSS lost the established quorum, as a result of which its further work could not be continued.
                        ? Myself, don’t you remember?
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Will there be evidence of this?

                        At school, there will be, but here, not an educational program. There you will learn about the "elections" in the so-called "councils": multi-stage (indirect), under the dictatorship of ONE party (not free), non-secret, non-general (millions of disenfranchised), unequal (1 vote = 10 votes) Isn't it a shame not to know the ELEMENTARY? And flaunt it? request
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Military seizure of adjacent territories and enslavement of half the population - is this nonsense?

                        Ahhh, Russia is an occupier of neighbors, in your opinion, according to the communist. Bravo! Well done! But WHERE are the Laws in RI established by force of arms? fool
                        Quote: Claymore
                        For 70 years, elections were held regularly (with the exception of the Great Patriotic War period).

                        For 70 years, no elections were held, as there was no choice: it was possible to choose either candidate Pupkin or
                        ... candidate Pupkin.
                        This meant a wild FEAR of power for having to answer.
                      2. Claymore
                        Claymore 10 September 2018 19: 18
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The monarch had the right to do EVERYTHING that he wished.

                        If this were so, then the publication of the act of succession to the throne would have no meaning and this act would not have existed.

                        From the moment the Manifesto was signed by Nicholas, Mikhail became Emperor

                        The emperor became one in the process of anointing and coronation.
                        Michael was a contender for the throne, in whose favor the abdication took place, and not the emperor.

                        Quote: Claymore
                        Here the subject of discussion is not the argument of the Bolsheviks, but the rule of law in RI / RR - is it clear, no?


                        Sclers? And this WHO wrote (to which I replied)
                        With the release of the Bolsheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries, the CSS lost the established quorum, as a result of which its further work could not be continued.
                        ?

                        This part of the commentary deals with legality (the absence of a quorum makes any meeting and its decisions null and void in fact), and not about argumentation (an explanation of the reasons for decisions and actions).

                        They’ll be at school, but not an educational program

                        The drain on this issue is counted.

                        Ahhh, Russia is an occupier of neighbors

                        No need to hysteria - this is a fact.

                        But WHERE are the laws in RI established by force of arms

                        All the laws that existed in the Republic of Ingushetia did not meet the interests of the vast majority of the population and, therefore, could be established only by force of arms, or by the threat of their use.

                        For 70 years, no elections were held, as there was no choice: it was possible to choose either candidate Pupkin or ... candidate Pupkin

                        And it was necessary to give the opportunity to choose the varieties of robbers and extortionists? laughing

                        Thus, production relations, the essence of which is robbery and extortion, were abandoned at the dawn of soviet power, when the choice was made in favor of the relationship "according to work" - a choice that is a revolution.
                  2. Nick_R
                    Nick_R 9 September 2018 14: 19
                    -2
                    RI legislation did not provide for the possibility of such a transfer of power 

                    Are you a lawyer or a historian? Apparently neither one nor the other.
                    For your information, SELF-POWER suggests that the will of the king is unlimited and his will is LAW.
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 9 September 2018 15: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: Nick_R
                      For your information, SELF-POWER suggests that the will of the king is unlimited and his will is LAW.

                      Herein lies the main strength and main weakness of the autocracy (dialectics, however! lol ). After all, it's one thing if the Emperor is a person of the scale of John ||| (Grozny), Vasily |||, John | V (Grozny again), Peter | (The Great), Catherine || (Great), and a completely different matter if the heir is born de 'Bill (oh), like Peter ||| ... Or, even worse, mediocrity, which will be in a situation not for average minds like Nicholas || (Worthless). laughing And, after all, you can’t knock them off the throne until they themselves drive away to the Lord God. Except that "apoplesic" blows with a snuffbox sometimes save, but all kinds of revolutions ...
                    2. Claymore
                      Claymore 10 September 2018 20: 25
                      +2
                      Quote: Nick_R

                      SELF-POWER suggests


                      For whom and for what purpose was the succession act issued?
        4. sunzhenets
          sunzhenets 8 September 2018 11: 49
          -1
          [quote = Flavius]
          [quote = SanichSan] many officers supported this fatherland. For example, the legend of the First World Brusilov. [/ Quote]
          This legend is a banal sworn oath. The legend shortly before that kissed the tsar’s hands with tears in his eyes and after a short time did not give a damn about the oath. Also, the other officers who supported Soviet power.]
          1) The oath "to the Tsar and the Fatherland" after the abdication of Nicholas II lost its force. The sworn party unilaterally refused to fulfill the contract.
          2) The abdication of Nicholas II was welcomed and supported by ALL commanders of the fronts and fleets.
          [quote] Whites are the successors of legitimate authority. There are no questions to them. The rest is scum. [/ Quote]
          What legitimate authority? The king denied. The interim government is self-proclaimed. US - a bunch of clowns like ukroRada. Oh, and a common understanding of what to do after the victory and to whom the power will belong was not unambiguous in the white movement.
          1. Flavius
            Flavius 8 September 2018 18: 05
            +1
            Have you fallen from the moon? The front commanders did not support the abdication; they directly and brazenly wrested it from their Supreme Commander during the war. Grossly breaking the oath, they overthrew the anointed of God as Christians.
            Extremely bad people who finished badly.
            1. Sweetheart
              Sweetheart 8 September 2018 18: 43
              +1
              Quote: Flavius
              Front commanders did not support abdication

              The proposal for abdication was presented to the monarch by the commander of the Northern Front, General Nikolai Ruzsky. And telegrams were sent to all the commanders of the fronts and fleets with a request to support the abdication of the king. At first, Nikolai, under various pretexts, tried to postpone the solution of the question and refuse to renounce, but, having received news that the entire high command of the country, including the generals of the headquarters of the Northern Front, was asking for this, he was forced to agree. Hence the “circle of betrayal, cowardice and deceit” - the famous phrase of Nicholas II, recorded in his diary on the day of abdication.
              http://www.spb.aif.ru/society/people/carya_v_zhertvu_pochemu_nikolay_ii_dobrovolno_otryoksya_ot_prestola
              Thus, the palace coup ended with the complete success of the conspirators-fendists. Autocracy fell, and with it began the collapse of the empire. Fevralista, without realizing it, opened a Pandora's box. The revolution has just begun. The fevralists, after crushing the autocracy and seizing power, hoped that with the help of the Entente (the West) they would be able to build a "new, free Russia", but they were greatly mistaken. They overwhelmed the last obstacle that had restrained the fundamental social contradictions that had been accumulating in the Romanovs for centuries. Began a general collapse, a civilizational disaster.
              https://topwar.ru/110178-kak-nikolay-ii-otreksya-ot-prestola.html
              The only one who did not support the abdication was Kolchak, the future executioner of Siberia.
              1. Flavius
                Flavius 8 September 2018 21: 19
                +3
                It's like that. Of the major military leaders, Count Keller and Khan Nakhichevan also spoke in support of the Emperor. The rest forgot about duty and oath.
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 9 September 2018 06: 05
                  0
                  Quote: Flavius
                  major military leaders still Count Keller and Khan Nakhichevan

                  These were not "big and military leaders" in the rank of the front commander.
                  Nikolashka surrendered the empire, like a negligent lieutenant squadron.
  7. Curious
    Curious 6 September 2018 13: 24
    0
    In the course of tormenting history, the author creates a new genre - "pseudo-historical hysteria". From the point of view of establishing some kind of historical truth, the value is zero, but as a material for sketching and organizing the next srach - that's it.
  8. slavaseven
    slavaseven 6 September 2018 13: 30
    +2
    This happens when the "5th column" comes to power ...
  9. akula
    akula 6 September 2018 14: 44
    +2
    Article +. Now the next psycho-catastrophe has come. If war breaks out in the near future, and everything goes towards this, it will be even worse. Compared to the Second World War, the Civil War does not seem so cruel, so the Second World War will seem like a paradise in comparison with the next war ..
  10. demo
    demo 6 September 2018 14: 45
    +1
    God forbid living in an era of such changes.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 6 September 2018 16: 29
      +5
      So we live, just still in a mild form, but no less cruel times.
  11. Hypatius
    Hypatius 6 September 2018 15: 38
    +2
    When discussing the events of those times, I noticed such a strangeness: arguments and explanations for the actions of the Reds and Whites are discussed, and which of them is worse in the historical perspective. However, for some reason, the motives and goals of foreign "peacekeepers" are of no interest to anyone. And did they achieve their goals with the coming to power, in fact, 5 columns?
  12. Gopnik
    Gopnik 6 September 2018 15: 52
    -1
    Vile skeptic,
    Well, you know better, you started writing about the "favorable" and "unfavorable" periods
  13. hohol95
    hohol95 6 September 2018 16: 30
    +1
    Human cruelty to the adversary is as old as the existence of HUMAN-LIKE ...
    Why does everyone think that in the Russian Empire there was no unjustified cruelty between separate sections of the population?
    It was even very strong!
    The GREECES were also distinguished by the smashing Jewish shops and shreds in Odessa in 1871 (Greek merchants criticized the Jews for taking control of banks and foreign trade operations from them)!
    In Starodub (Chernihiv province) on September 29, 1891 there was a pogrom, the main participants of which were local merchants, Old Believers, dissatisfied with the trade competition from the Jews.
    According to the governor of Nizhny Novgorod, "... the people have become convinced of the complete impunity of the most serious crimes, if only they are directed against the Jews."

    It all began with envy and self-interest ...
    In 1916 they decided to call on the earthwork of the inhabitants of the Asian part of the country — not to trenches, not to attack! Dig the earth!
    And they got the slaughter of the Russian population by the Kyrgyz (now they have elevated it to the rank of national pride)!
    And I had to pacify these "failed diggers" in the cruellest way!
    So if everything - the Provisional Government, Their different Nobles were so pleased for the COUNTRY - why didn’t the TEST MEASURES be applied to the Bolsheviks? No one claimed responsibility !!! No one wanted to cut 100 goals and save the country from the Civil War! So many more people died ...
    The main demand from those who ruled until 1917!
    1. Flavius
      Flavius 6 September 2018 16: 38
      -2
      Quote: hohol95
      Human cruelty to the adversary is as old as the existence of HUMAN-LIKE ...
      Why does everyone think that in the Russian Empire there was no unjustified cruelty between separate sections of the population?
      It was even very strong!

      Well, it was and was. The Russian people in their own country are the master and destroy anyone they want. Or lets smash anyone he wants.
      And no one - neither the party, nor Lenin with America, should and can not impose on the state-forming people of Russia whom to love and who to hate. And from the year 17 to this day - impose daily.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 6 September 2018 16: 47
        +2
        The Russian people in their own country are the master and destroy anyone they want. Or lets smash anyone he wants.

        As I understand it, you are for universal ANARCHY - destroy it yourself and let it destroy your neighbor? And do not care about the laws of the state! Spit on the lives of your loved ones - and suddenly they come to smash you personally and you will meet the pogromists with bread and a herring! And reproach your house and relatives! For others, you are thunders, trashers - that means you can ...
        1. Flavius
          Flavius 6 September 2018 21: 30
          0
          No, I'm not for anarchy. It is simply strange to reproach the people living in an officially anti-Semitic state for Jewish pogroms.
          1. Sweetheart
            Sweetheart 8 September 2018 19: 27
            -1
            Quote: Flavius
            It is simply strange to reproach the people living in an officially anti-Semitic state for Jewish pogroms.

            In more detail about the "pogroms" I really want to laugh at your delights, it's boring with Olgovich, I'm already tired of bullshit. It's your turn to speak in public ...
            1. Flavius
              Flavius 8 September 2018 21: 23
              +2
              More hohol95 wrote already with condemnation. And I think that everything is in the order of things, an everyday matter.
              So laugh for no reason, as your fraternity is supposed to wink
              1. Sweetheart
                Sweetheart 9 September 2018 05: 59
                -1
                Quote: Flavius
                your brotherhood and relies

                Your brethren will lie, not expensive to take ..
                And if you read. It turns out that all your screams about far-fetched pogroms in Russia are worthless.
                1. Flavius
                  Flavius 9 September 2018 07: 03
                  +1
                  They are not far-fetched, but real and necessary.
                  Crying for Jews and blacks is a Soviet tradition. It has nothing to do with a Russian person.
                  1. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 9 September 2018 07: 24
                    -3
                    Quote: Flavius
                    Cry for jews

                    Well, why did you burst into tears, remembering the non-existent pogroms? Or even the former "pogroms" in which for some reason others like you acted as a provocative party, but the Russians suffered from this? Do you need to bring the police chief Gomel's report, who was "pogrom" ? https: //www.liveinternet.ru/users/lusiya78/post329241455
                    For now, this is enough for you.
                    And this is in the appendage.
                    https://lib.sale/voennaya-istoriya-uchebnik/pogromah-58683.html
                    Of you "Russian" ... very dubious, why are you ashamed of your nationality?
  14. Gopnik
    Gopnik 6 September 2018 17: 09
    0
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    What do you think about this issue?

    And I think that the more data - the better. As for the indicative mortality of up to one year and up to five - an interesting thought
  15. Santor
    Santor 6 September 2018 19: 09
    +8
    Any, I emphasize, any revolution.
    Britain - how many heads of aristocrats were cut down by "iron-sided" ??? How much property was confiscated on denunciations and its owners were sent to hard labor? "Captain Blood" Sabbatini do not remember? And there is a bunch of literary works about that time - the whole country was flooded with blood ...

    Then came the Restoration - now they chopped heads and killed those who were previously in power ....

    The French Revolution not to be mentioned by night? How many heads rolled on the guillotine on both sides? Royal troops and rebels used the same methods ... Greatly shown in the British TV series "Captain Hornblower", I advise you to refresh your memory ... And there were also shootings in the moat of the Vincennes castle - 100-120 people were put at once ...

    In fact, the revolution in the United States is brutally crushed by the North-the same motley .... full of evidence ....
    The French Revolution of the 1870 years - oh how there is blood, then both sides drank .....

    So the Bolsheviks are not the first and not the last .... And to be historically accurate, they also released the ministers of the Provisional Government who were taken in Zminy, and the officers were released, even after the Kaledin rebellion ... The same General Krasnov was released on parole, not is not it? The excesses were in the fleet - yes ... And that was mainly on battleships, where the personnel were tormented by idleness, for each exit was coordinated with the Headquarters and the decision was signed personally by the Emperor. That's why they stood in the harbor for almost the entire war with a couple of rare exceptions. But there was an old hatred, especially the officers were a special caste. Well, General Dukhonin himself ran into it. Even the cadets were then released, both from Zimny ​​and from Vokzalov, the telegraph and telephone exchanges ... And it was the whites who were the first to start the terror ...

    This is historically proven .... And not even by the acts of Kanegisser and after the attempt on Lenin. By the way, this was not the first attempt, it’s just succeeded. And if the Revolution did not respond to terror with even tougher terror - it would not survive.

    I have no desire to poke around in dates and numbers. Wiki's article on red terror can not be cited as an example; it was written biased and full of fragments pulled from various sources.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 6 September 2018 19: 39
      0
      They didn’t mention the devil, he’s not on your list, but he was the first revolutionary. This is historically proven ......
    2. cat hippopotamus
      cat hippopotamus 6 September 2018 22: 49
      -2
      If you want to justify the Bolsheviks, then you simply do not understand those events. The Bolsheviks forcibly seized power after the October coup, I suppose you do not need to explain this. But on whose money the Bolsheviks organized all this and who supported them, I think you heard about a special car with Ulyanov and his team. The one who financed the whole event spent the money not in vain, and certainly the Bolsheviks met all the hopes of the German government. Well, and the fact that you say that White started first, then to put it mildly, you are a liar.
      On December 4, 1917, speaking at the II All-Russian Congress of Peasants 'Deputies' Soviets, Trotsky openly declared that "he will not condemn a people who, in a moment of limitless despair, outraged by the sabotage of the possessing classes, will resort to repression, and possibly even to the guillotine." The Council of People's Commissars had not yet directly decreed mass killings, but Lenin had provided the "initiative" in this matter to local "communes and communities", demanding "the merciless military suppression of yesterday's slave owners (capitalists) and a pack of their lackeys - gentlemen of bourgeois intellectuals" "War is not for life, but to the death of the rich and their henchmen, bourgeois intellectuals, ”Lenin instructed his supporters in the article“ How to Organize a Competition, ”written in late December 1917.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 7 September 2018 09: 59
      0
      Quote: Santor
      ficers were released even after rebellion Kaledina.

      What does "mutiny" mean? fool Kaledin is the LEGAL power that opposed the rebels, cut yourself on the nose!
      Quote: Santor
      The same General Krasnov was released on parole, right?

      Is it not so: under the terms of the armistice, the Bolsheviks did NOT have the right to enter Tsarskoye Selo and arrest anyone, including and him. the Bolsheviks spat on all agreements and disarmed and arrested many.
      Quote: Santor
      Well, General Dukhonin himself ran into

      Do you like bandit brutality? The main thing is not to forget about this when meeting with the bandits, somewhere in the gateway. yes
      Quote: Santor
      Even the cadets were then released, both from Zimniy and from Vokzalov, the telegraph and telephone exchanges.

      False
      Quote: Santor
      And it was the whites who first started the terror ...

      The whites appeared AFTER the reds, respectively, and their terror began later
      Quote: Santor
      This is historically proven .... And not even by the acts of Kanegisser and after the attempt on Lenin. By the way, this was not the first attempt, it’s just succeeded. And if the revolution

      If there was no October coup, then there would be no terror. And they were not there before the thief. EVERYTHING started AFTER her. Remember this "random" causal relationship.
      Quote: Santor
      Wiki's article on red terror can not be cited as an example; it was written biased and full of fragments pulled from various sources.

      Yes, all lies, the Denikin commission investigating the crimes in accordance with the Legislation made up everything.
      And the truth was told all the time by the Bolshevik authorities fool lol .
      Only now it turns out that she never said a word of truth: and the famine of 1933 47 was never with millions of victims of cannibalism, and the losses in the Great Patriotic War were counted only after her disappearance, and the eviction of millions of peasants (1 million children) was not and about 700 thousand executions per year (37-38) were not. Etc.
      1. Sweetheart
        Sweetheart 8 September 2018 19: 40
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Kaledin is LEGAL power

        Who and when did this general nominate as legal ruler?
        Quote: Olgovich
        Do you like bandit brutality? The main thing is not to forget about this when meeting with the bandits, somewhere in the gateway.

        Well, you are justifying them. From the murderer of Krasnov, to the executioner of Siberia Kolchak, you probably have all sorts of Kata closer in spirit, if only they would shoot at the Russian people
        Quote: Olgovich
        The whites appeared AFTER the reds, respectively, and their terror began later

        Breathe deeper. The TERROR started WHITE — five hundred soldiers of the 56th regiment in the Kremlin shot at the Kremlin on October 28, 1917.
        Quote: Olgovich
        If there was no October coup, then there would be no terror. And they were not there before the thief. EVERYTHING started AFTER her. Remember this "random" causal relationship.

        FEBRUARY, much earlier than OCTOBER, Mr. liar.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Yes, all lies, the Denikin commission investigating the crimes in accordance with the Legislation made up everything.

        Yes, almost all inventions. You still bring Wild as an argument here.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Only now it turns out that she never said a word of truth: and the famine of 1933 47 was never with millions of victims of cannibalism, and the losses in the Great Patriotic War were counted only after her disappearance, and the eviction of millions of peasants (1 million children) was not and about 700 thousand executions per year (37-38) were not. Etc.

        again, the liberal-monarchist blab blah blah, with no signs of being in their right mind and mind with memory.
        In a contest of liars
        In a revealing rage, the writers of anti-Stalinist horror stories seem to compete who will lie more strongly, vying to name the astronomical figures of those who died at the hands of the "bloody tyrant." Against their background, dissident Roy Medvedev, limited to a "modest" figure of 40 million, looks like some kind of black sheep, an example of moderation and good faith:

        “Thus, the total number of victims of Stalinism reaches, according to my estimates, about 40 million people” [1].

        And in fact, solid. Another dissident, the son of the repressed revolutionary Trotskyist A.V. Antonov-Ovseenko, without a shadow of embarrassment, calls a double figure:

        “These estimates are very, very rough, but I’m sure of one thing: the Stalinist regime bleed the people, destroying more than 80 million of its best sons” [2].

        Professional “rehabilitators” led by A. N. Yakovlev, a former member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, are already talking about 100 million:

        “According to the most conservative estimates of the specialists of the rehabilitation commission, our country lost about 100 million people during the years of Stalin's rule. This number includes not only the repressed themselves, but also the doomed members of their families and even children who might have been born, but have not yet been born. ”Http://red-sovet.su/post/28731

        "To the Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee

        Comrade Khrushchev N.S.

        In connection with the signals received by a number of persons from the CPSU Central Committee about the illegal conviction for counter-revolutionary crimes in previous years by the OGPU Board, the NKVD troika, and the Special Meeting. The Military College, the courts and the military tribunals, and in accordance with your instructions on the need to review cases against persons convicted of counter-revolutionary crimes and now detained in camps and prisons, report:

        According to the data available in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, for the period from 1921 to the present, counter-revolutionary crimes were convicted by the OGPU Board, NKVD Troika, Special Conference, Military College, courts and military tribunals of the 3 777 380 people, including:

        to VMN - 642 980 people,

        to detention in camps and prisons for a term of 25 years and below - 2 people,

        to the link and expulsion? - 765 people.

        Of the total number of those arrested, tentatively, the following were convicted: 2 people - by the OGPU Board, the NKVD triples and the Special Conference, and 900 people - by the courts, military tribunals, the Special College and the Military College.

        ...
        Attorney General R. Rudenko
        Minister of the Interior S. Kruglov
        Minister of Justice K. Gorshenin

        [7]

        According to the document, from 1921 to the beginning of 1954, 642 people were sentenced to death for political charges, 980 to imprisonment, and 2 to exile.
        So where are your millions, billions. Trillions?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 September 2018 10: 44
          +1
          Quote: The Swordsman
          Who and when did this general nominate as legal ruler?

          fool He was already legal power at the time of the Thief (seizure of power in Petrograd 25,10)). And immediately entered the fight against the invaders. As expected.
          Quote: The Swordsman
          Well, you justify them.

          Legal authority does not need justification. Let the invaders make excuses.
          You do not have the right to speak on behalf of the Russian people, he did not give it to you.
          You started shooting at Russia, on October 25, 1917, by treacherously attacking the state institutions of the country.
          Quote: The Swordsman
          Breathe deeper. The TERROR started WHITE — five hundred soldiers of the 56th regiment in the Kremlin shot at the Kremlin on October 28, 1917.

          Lying like breathing
          Quote: The Swordsman
          Yes, almost all inventions. You still bring Wild as an argument here.

          Almost everything is true, established in accordance with the legislation on the investigation.
          Quote: The Swordsman
          again, the liberal-monarchist blab blah blah, with no signs of being in their right mind and mind with memory.

          True, confirmed by DOCUMENTS, denied only by those who are not in
          Quote: The Swordsman
          in his right mind and not in his mind with memory.


          Quote: The Swordsman
          as if competing, who will lie more strongly, vying with each other, calling astronomical figures of the dead at the hands of the "bloody tyrant"

          What are you talking about, dear man? Why are someone else's article being stolen again and answered off-topic?
          I wrote about the famine of 33 g, with millions of victims and cannibalization, which in the world, and even in peacetime, has never been anywhere before. 20th century. Mostly RUSSIAN people died!

          In your parallel "reality" (press, cinema, VKPB, congresses of the 30s), it ... did NOT exist, at all! Not a word and nowhere ... Not a single one at the 17th congress 34 g, at the conference at the beginning of 33, (the peak of hunger deaths) did not get up, did not obey, did not offer condolences, did not shoot herself from grief: no, according to the speeches, EVERYTHING was fine !
          At the same time, it was even stated that even the poor became 33 wealthy people. What's this? belay How is it possible ?! These are their fellow citizens! For you, this is the norm, like all that
          1. Sweetheart
            Sweetheart 9 September 2018 11: 18
            -4
            [quote = Olgovich] He was already legal authority at the time [/ quote]
            In whose fevered imagination was he "legitimate authority"?
            You have Temporary-legal. This is the notorious US panacea for hemorrhoids. And by the way, what do you try to prove and what are you trying to replay? History? well, so she showed kaledin with a companion of his kind white, bit and US with a kolchak were shot and in 1922 they kicked you out of the country.
            [quote = Olgovich] You do not have the right to speak on behalf of the Russian people, he did not give it to you. [/ quote]
            O .. mania of greatness. The olgovi thinks himself to be a Russian people. And the olgovichs asked the Russian people. Do they need olgoviches? As it turned out in 1922, the answer is unequivocal - they are not needed for nothing.
            [quote = Olgovich] Almost all the truth, established in accordance with the legislation on the investigation. [/ quote]
            Nonsense.
            [quote = Olgovich]
            True, confirmed by DOCUMENTS, [/ quote]
            The ace does not have truth, and the documents of the libel of all sorts of Bunin-Solonevichs and other Solzhenitsyn and wild ones.
            [quote = Olgovich] Why are someone else's article being stolen again and answered off-topic? [/ quote]
            Well, you do not ascribe your sins to others. More than once, here in this thread you indicated. Poking with your nose where you are lying and lying about.
            [quote = Olgovich]. DO NOT exist, Generally! Not a word and nowhere .... None at the 17th congress of 34 g, at the conference began 33 g, (peak of starvation) did not stand up, did not obey, did not bring condolences, did not shoot herself in grief: no, according to the speeches -Everything was fine !
            At the same time, it was even stated that even the poor became 33 wealthy people. What's this? [/ quote]
            This is your Russophobia.
            During the war, the collective farmer bought tanks and planes, apparently from poverty?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 9 September 2018 13: 02
              0
              Quote: The Swordsman
              Whose fevered imagination was he "legitimate authority"?

              On October 25, he was the LEGAL power - the ataman of the Don Army. She stayed with her. Not getting it?
              Quote: The Swordsman
              and what are you trying to replay? History? well, so she showed kaledin with a companion of his kind white, bit and US with a kolchak were shot and in 1922 they kicked you out of the country.

              If you are about History, then it has erased your eraser forever, with complete indifference of the people. Look at the State Flag of Russia!
              Quote: The Swordsman
              Nonsense.

              So don’t write it anymore, are you tired?
              Quote: The Swordsman
              Well, you don’t ascribe your sins to others. More than once, here in this threade indicated. Poking his nose, where are you from and what are you lying to?

              Indicate a liar, or confess a lie
              Quote: The Swordsman
              This is your Russophobia

              No, this is YOUR Russophobia, everything was fine with you in 33 g, when millions of Russians died of hunger. But the All-Union Communist Party and the authorities did not say a WORD and did not ask the world for help. Once again I ask: Is this normal for you, "Russophile"?
              1. Sweetheart
                Sweetheart 9 September 2018 13: 24
                -3
                Quote: Olgovich
                YOUR Russophobia

                It is yours. Fabulist-bulcohrust.
                Swordsman (Nikolai) Today, 11:43 4
                0
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                insolent
                it’s you not that goal .. it's time to beat yourself like that.
                Further, I quote the book of the Americans M. Sayers and A. Kahn "The Secret War against Soviet Russia."

                “Every day, his (Graves) intelligence officers supplied him with new information about the kingdom of terror, which Kolchak established. There were 100 thousand soldiers in the admiral’s army, and new thousands of people were recruited into it under the threat of execution. Prisons and concentration camps were packed to capacity.

                Hundreds of Russians, daring not to submit to the new dictator, hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway. Many rested in common graves, which they were ordered to dig before the Kolchak executioners destroyed them with machine gun fire. Murders and robberies have become an everyday occurrence. ”

                “General Grevs did not hide the disgust that the atrocities of the anti-Soviet troops in Siberia caused him, which earned him a hostile attitude from the White Guard, English, French and Japanese command. Kolchak’s agents began harassment against Graves in order to undermine prestige and achieve his recall from Siberia.

                In the midst of a slanderous campaign, General Greves came to the headquarters sent from General Ivanov-Rynov, who commanded Kolchak units in Eastern Siberia. He told Grevs that if he undertakes to give Kolchak’s army monthly $ 20 thousand, General Ivanov-Rynov will make sure that the campaign against Grevs and his troops ceases.

                This Ivanov-Rynov, even among the generals of Kolchak, stood out as a monster and a sadist. In Eastern Siberia, his soldiers exterminated the entire male population in the villages where, according to their suspicions, the Bolsheviks were harboring. Women were raped and beaten with ramrods. Killed indiscriminately - the elderly, women, children.

                One young American officer, sent to investigate the atrocities of Ivanov-Rynov, was so shocked that, ending his report to Grevs, he exclaimed: “For God's sake, General, do not send me more with such instructions!” Just a little more - and I would have torn off my uniform and would have saved these unfortunate people. ”
                I have a lot of things to convict you of complete lies. Together with the arrogant liar-olgovich.
                Reply
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 10 September 2018 09: 27
                  -2
                  Quote: The Swordsman
                  I quote the book further Americans M.Sayers and A.Kan "Secret war against Soviet Russia."

                  Jewish seven year olds witnesses - amero "officers". lol
                  You yulit and coward and do not answer a simple question: is it normal that your NO words did not tell the country about the terrible tragedy of 33 years, did not obey, did not condole, etc.? But people died in nseveral times more than during the World War!
                  1. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 11 September 2018 19: 14
                    -3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Not a word was said to the country about the terrible tragedy of 33 years, did not obey, did not condole, etc.? But people died several times more than during the World War!

                    Lie.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 September 2018 12: 10
                      -3
                      Quote: The Swordsman
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Not a word was said to the country about the terrible tragedy of 33 years, did not obey, did not condole, etc.? But people died several times more than during the World War!

                      Lie.

                      Develop and show your newspapers 33 g, where there is information, condolences, obituaries, etc.
                      You can not? No you can not negative
  16. race
    race 6 September 2018 21: 03
    -4
    Thus, the Red Terror was justified by the need to recreate Russian (Soviet) civilization, a new development project and a new state. This was in the interests of the vast majority of the population.

    There can be no justification for terror. Following the above principle, the terror unleashed by ISIS can also be justified. ISIS is also a new development project and a new state. Is not it? In general, ISIS is a complete analogy of the Bolshevik government in Russia (the period after the coup and during the Civil War). The ideology is different, but the principles, methods of action and intent completely coincide. A complete analogy can be seen even with a source of funding. He is also the customer of coups and wars.
    1. Nick_R
      Nick_R 9 September 2018 14: 34
      -2
      The ideology is different, but the principles, methods of action and intent completely coincide. 

      The methods of all successful revolutions are very similar. Even in modern Ukraine they arranged it in the image and likeness, how they pour in their inhabitants the revolutionary propaganda
      1. race
        race 9 September 2018 21: 10
        -2
        Quote: Nick_R
        The ideology is different, but the principles, methods of action and intent completely coincide. 

        The methods of all successful revolutions are very similar. Even in modern Ukraine they arranged it in the image and likeness, how they pour in their inhabitants the revolutionary propaganda

        Yes, but far from all revolutions set the task of completely reformatting the state and society. And this is what makes the Bolsheviks and ISIS related. The Ukrainians, with their "revolution of hіdnostі", in many ways repeat the Bolsheviks (demolition of monuments, denial of the past and the creation of a new history, ascension of terrorists and murderers to the pedestal, as well as persecution of the Orthodox Church), but they are still far from the Bolsheviks. Although time will pass, and we will learn what real deeds were committed, but hid from society.
  17. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 6 September 2018 22: 14
    +1
    It was a terrible time, but where did the Bolshevik begin?
    “A major action of the Red Terror was the shooting in Petrograd of more than 500 representatives of the former 'elite' (officials, including ministers, professors). In total, according to the Cheka's official data, about 800 people were shot in Petrograd during the Red Terror.
    The question is why and why? Were they really so dangerous, this intelligentsia. It's just that lumpen, the lower strata of society, sadists and just bandits got to power and decided to show who is the boss in the country. On the part of the whites, of course, there were similar manifestations, but only against those who clearly threatened their regime. Of course, this was not used out of class hatred. Often, a simple captive peasant was disarmed and released on parole. But for the commissars and the Bolsheviks, a rope and a bullet were always ready. Whatever it was, according to various sources, the victims of the White Terror range from 100 to 300 thousand people, while the victims of the Red Terror range from 1,2 to 1,7 million people. Can you catch the difference? Read about Shchersa's wife, she was still a maniac, the Red Army men themselves were afraid of her. Well, what did "Zemlyachka" do in the Crimea, reading her sadistic "exploits", the hair on her head moves. Of course, there were inveterate ghouls on the side of the whites, but what was massively done by the Bolsheviks, the whites did not have. And the peasant revolts did not arise out of nowhere. From 18 to 21 years, peasant uprisings arose everywhere, the last major, the so-called "Tambov", in fact, five provinces rose up there and was the largest and most organized. To what state it was necessary to bring a simple peasant so that he would take up arms and go against the government? The peasants were broken through the knee and the state simply destroyed the village as a breadwinner, which led to a massive famine already in the early 30s.
    It was a terrible time; the Bolsheviks washed Russia in full with blood. I feel sorry for both red and white, because these were our ancestors. The victims of the civil war, no one can count the numbers vary from eight to twelve million people, plus mass emigration and the outcome of the best representatives of society. According to the results of the first census, instead of the expected increase, the population received minus 30 million people. Therefore, all the results are classified.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 September 2018 19: 11
      +3
      We must not forget that immediately after the Great October Socialist Revolution, the Bolsheviks abolished the death penalty and released all enemies on parole. The same Kornilov, Krasnov and others, but none of those released did not keep their word and immediately began to destroy not only the Bolsheviks but all those sympathizing with the Soviet power, then they went on to destroy the top leaders of the Soviet power. So all the enemies of Soviet power received a return.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 8 September 2018 10: 10
        -2
        Quote: Alexander Green
        all enemies were released on parole. The same Kornilov, Krasnov and others, but none of those released did not keep his word

        You would speak better about your dialectic lol , and did not carry illiterate BAD: Kornilov NOBODY from the usurpers of power did not let go and he did not give a word to anyone.
        And Krasnova, the first treacherously violating the terms of the armistice and his word, the Bolsheviks first arrested.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        so that all the enemies of Soviet power received return line.

        The FIRST perfidiously attacked the leadership of Russia with weapons, the Bolsheviks from some vrk "Petrosovet" on October 25, 17 Nobody gave this "Petrosovet" anything on behalf of Russia, and did not authorize it.
        And the return to the terrorists went .....

        PS when will you return to school? For knowledge?
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 8 September 2018 15: 54
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          PS when will you return to school? For knowledge?

          Do not exaggerate. You know very well that you cannot compete with me in knowledge.

          Ay-yai-yay, the great mistake is Kornilov. Yes, I know without you. that he had been released on the sly by General Dukhonin, but if he hadn’t done it, then even after the trial Kornilov would have been released with a statement not to fight against the Soviets. And who is Kornilov? One of the enemies of Soviet power.

          The fact is that the Soviet government at first, when it hoped for a peaceful development of the revolution, released all its enemies on parole, and there were more than a thousand of them.

          Here are the most iconic figures.
          "Subscription
          Major General Melnikov
          I, the undersigned, have issued nast. Military Investigation subscription Commissions of the Government of the Council Worker., Sold., And Cross. Dep. in that I give my word of honor not to speak out against armed forces. the government and not call for others to do so, and appear at the first request of the aforementioned Commission. ”
          (Melnikov later served with Mamontov)

          On parole, generals A. A. Manikovsky, V. V. Marushevsky, V. L. Baranovsky, Pototsky and others were released. One of the leaders of the struggle against the Bolsheviks and the Soviet regime, the organizer, was released.
          Black Hundred Movement Purishkevich.

          The second fact is that none of them kept their word.
          After that, we had a children's counting rhyme for a long time, "Honestly - it's ready to lie! ..."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 September 2018 12: 15
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Do not exaggerate. You know very well that you cannot compete with me in knowledge.

            According to yes, do not compete: therefore, I propose to take the course again at least in elementary school, maybe. pull up a little. lol
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Ay-yai-yay, the great mistake is Kornilov.

            If you did not know about the fate of even the Commander-in-Chief, what are yours? "knowledge"?
            Quote: Alexander Green
            One of the enemies of Soviet power.

            Hero of Russia, favorite of the Russian people, Commander-in-Chief.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            The fact is that the Soviet government at first, when it hoped for a peaceful development of the revolution, let all its enemies [Honestly were [b] freed generals A.A. Manikovsky, V.V. Marushevsky, V.L. Baranovsky, Pototsky / b]


            The terrorists seized by force the establishment of the capital — WHAT should a person faithful to the Oath have to do and who is the enemy — if this happens today?
            WHO and WHAT gave the invaders (completely illegal themselves) the right to judge and blame? Nothing and nothing.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Here are the most iconic figures.
            "Subscription
            Major General Melnikov
            I, the undersigned, have issued nast. Military Investigation subscription Commissions of the Government of the Council Worker., Sold., And Cross. Dep. in that I give my word of honor not to speak out against armed forces. the government and not call for others to do so, and appear at the first request of the aforementioned Commission. ” (Melnikov later served with Mamontov)


            Yeah, Kornilov is not an iconic figure, but the beginning. iconic schools lol
            In Melnikov’s prison, why were they thrown from the FIRST day of a thief?
            And what was his choice in prison when the authorities were inadequate?
            As with him, so he is with them.
            By the way, the receipt is also very doubtful.
            Present scans of receipts of other generals. Not chatter (as you always have), but docs
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 9 September 2018 20: 25
              +3
              Olgievich. Quote "Provide scans of receipts of other generals. Not chatter, (as you always have), but docs."

              No, Olgievich, you have chatter. Your knowledge is superficial, it is not based on any scientific methodology, moreover, your zoological hatred of the Bolsheviks has superimposed on it because they took the sweet life from your ancestors. Therefore, you cannot draw valid conclusions, and therefore they are incorrect ..
              You constantly distort, make generalizations from individual excesses, and attribute all the atrocities to the Bolsheviks only.
              And look for receipts yourself.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 September 2018 09: 34
                -3
                Quote: Alexander Green
                No, Olgievich, you have chatter. Your knowledge is superficial, it is not based on what scientific methodology besides, your zoological hatred of the Bolsheviks was superimposed on it because they took the sweet life from your ancestors. Therefore, you cannot draw valid conclusions, and therefore they are incorrect ..

                Blah blah blah ... Again empty chatter, designed to mask ignorance of the facts and be unable to answer directly posed SPECIFIC questions
                Quote: Alexander Green
                You constantly distort yes .

                True eyes hurts.!
                Quote: Alexander Green
                And look for receipts yourself.

                Duc .... NOTHING to look for! lol
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 10 September 2018 19: 15
                  +3
                  Olgievich: "Duc .... Nothing to look for!
                  And then what are you provoking? See what kind of person you are? ..... You know that only one receipt is published and you offer to search.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 September 2018 10: 15
                    -3
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Olgievich: "Duc .... Nothing to look for!
                    And then what are you provoking? See what kind of person you are? ..... You know that only one receipt is published and you offer to search.

                    You wrote about MANY receipts, you cannot prove. then they lied. Rt
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 11 September 2018 21: 43
                      +1
                      Olgievich: "You wrote about MANY receipts, you can't tell. So you lied."
                      Where have I written about many receipts? Again, you distort, or is it because you ceased to understand the Russian language in a foreign land?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 September 2018 12: 13
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Where have I written about many receipts? Again, you distort, or is it because you ceased to understand the Russian language in a foreign land?

                        What is this?
                        Generals A.A. Manikovsky, V.V. Marushevsky, V.L. Baranovsky, Pototsky were released on parole

                        Or how to understand "word of honor?" Who was given it, the overseer in prison? Where, then, are the witnesses, the "receivers" of the word?
                        Do you again have one chatter?
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 12 September 2018 23: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Or how to understand "word of honor?"


                        Yes, you really do not understand Russian ...
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 September 2018 10: 04
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Yes, you really do not understand Russian ...

                        To be understood in Russian, learn to express their so-called "thoughts" in Russian. lol
  18. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 9 September 2018 08: 05
    +3
    The article is a definite plus. At least for provoking a huge number of very interesting comments. I deliberately postponed reading comments for several days. The result pleased.
    Yes, if anyone is interested in my IMHO. I believe that everyone was noted there, in full. But I support the Bolsheviks.
  19. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 9 September 2018 09: 04
    +3
    I'll try to put an end to it. Since there will be no serious battles. Let's see from our years. (To me51) And the 70s and even until the mid-80s is the best that was. Yes, I live more satisfying now, I eat more sausages, I go to a prestigious foreign car, but I would give it all, for the 70s
    When, if the child was late at 11 pm, they said, (the bitch will return, he will receive it. ”Instead of calling the police.
    And the fact that I lived a happy 70s in this merit and red terror. Yes. There was a time, yes. There would be no red terror - there would be no us. Mostly. Therefore, it is worth recognizing as part of our difficult history. Recognize as the atrocities of whites. Recognize and live on .... There is no choice.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 September 2018 09: 46
      -3
      Quote: Ecilop
      (To me51) And the 70s and even until the mid-80s is the best that was.

      Certainly: this is childhood and youth
      Quote: Ecilop
      And the fact that I lived a happy 70s in this merit and red terror. Yes. There was a time, yes. There would be no red terror - there would be no us.

      And how did the whole world survive and live on without red terror?
      Strange, but in Europe they lived much better and somehow managed without. And we are glad that this thicket has passed them.
      I assure you that today's 55 year old Germans, Danes, Italians and French were also the happiest in those years 70-80 and nostalgic for them (worked with them and talked a lot). Youth is gone, and this is the best part of life, whatever one may say. Everyone has.
      1. your1970
        your1970 13 September 2018 12: 29
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        And how did the whole world survive and live on without red terror? Strange, but in Europe they lived much better and somehow managed without.
        - sure that in Europe it cost without??
        Red brigades, IRA, ETA, RAF-did not hear such names? Also the Bolsheviks are to blame?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 14 September 2018 15: 21
          -1
          Quote: your1970
          race teams, IRA, ETA, RAF-have not heard such names?

          Carrot is also similar to a finger, but, well, you, DIFFERENT things! yes
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 September 2018 08: 02
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: your1970
            race teams, IRA, ETA, RAF-have not heard such names?

            Carrot is also similar to a finger, but, well, you, DIFFERENT things! yes

            specially for you, I gave a graph, which clearly shows that the number of victims of terrorist attacks in 70-80 was much higher than it is now .. So about peace of mind "THEN" you are in vain .....
  20. Nikolay R
    Nikolay R 9 September 2018 09: 17
    +1
    The entire hierarchy of power in the country rested on one person. And after the betrayal of the king by all (first of all, his close ones), chaos could not fail.
    But the thing is different. The fact is that the author is trying to justify the Red Terror and together the killing of innocent people, which is completely unacceptable.
    Such things cannot be justified. And since any revolution is a sea of ​​blood, then the revolution itself is already an absolute evil that must be condemned, and not justified.
  21. Flavius
    Flavius 9 September 2018 11: 35
    0
    Quote: Claymore
    2 You did not answer the questions.

    I already answered everything - then go ahead fool without me. I don't care about that.
    1. Claymore
      Claymore 11 September 2018 01: 37
      +2
      Poke your finger at the place where your answer to the question about the grounds on which Romanov and his ancestors were legitimate authority is contained, as well as your answer to the question who was spied on by the "German spy Blank" in western Europe.
      1. Flavius
        Flavius 12 September 2018 09: 52
        -2
        Quote: Claymore
        Poke your finger in the place where your answer to the question about the grounds on which Romanov and his ancestors were the legitimate authority is contained,

        Any power was affirmed by violence and injustice - Rurikovich, Romanovs, Plantagenets, communists, fascists, etc. It seems by your nonsense that there are no legitimate authorities in the world. However, they are everywhere.
        I do not want to continue this topic further, since there is no desire to communicate with the wretched.
        Quote: Claymore
        , as well as your answer to the question who was spied on by "German spy Blank" in Western Europe.

        He is an agent of German influence who helped the legitimate German authorities to crush the "illegal" government in Russia. A person who, in the midst of a war, enjoys the direct support of the enemies of his homeland is a traitor.
        1. Sweetheart
          Sweetheart 12 September 2018 12: 04
          -2
          Quote: Flavius
          He is an agent of German influence who helped the legitimate German authorities to crush the "illegal" government in Russia.

          Brad.
        2. Claymore
          Claymore 13 September 2018 05: 57
          +3
          Quote: Flavius
          Any power affirmed by violence

          And there is.

          Power is the ability to dictate your will.

          Therefore, the essence of power is violence: if you cannot subdueif you can not compel to do your will to someone who does not want to obey you - that means you have no power.

          It seems by your nonsense that there are no legitimate authorities in the world.

          And judging by your nonsense, you undertook to talk about an object that you do not know and do not understand.

          Legality is compliance with laws, and people come up with laws in the interests of social groups that have managed to subordinate (or convince the need for submission) to other social groups.

          Therefore, representatives of the social group that was able to subjugate other social groups (i.e., was able to take power) become legal authorities.
          Therefore, the concept of "law" is not synonymous with the concept of "justice".
          Therefore, legitimate authorities are such only conditionally, and only because of the conformity of their existence to the laws written by them.
          Therefore, far from any legitimate authority is a blessing.
          Therefore, in conversations on political topics, where the measure of everything is the interests of large social groups, a reference to legality is the height of stupidity.

          with the poor there is no desire to communicate

          Exactly. And I will be glad for you if you finally stop talking with your reflection in the mirror.

          He is a German influence agent who helped

          I understand that among the bakers, dementia is the norm, so I repeat my question.

          You stated that Lenin was a German spy.
          Who was the "German spy Lenin" spying on in Western Europe?
  22. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 13 September 2018 15: 21
    0
    Olgovich,
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Yes, you really do not understand Russian ...


    To understand you in Russian, learn to express your so-called. "thoughts" in Russian. lol


    Alexander expresses his thoughts clearly. And, in Russian.

    Quote: Alexander Green
    Where have I written about many receipts? Again, you distort, or is it because you ceased to understand the Russian language in a foreign land?

    What is this?

    Generals A.A. Manikovsky, V.V. Marushevsky, V.L. Baranovsky, Pototsky were released on parole

    Or how to understand "word of honor?"


    You signed with your message that you do not know what it means "on parole" if you need receipts for this. What Alexander absolutely rightly pointed out to you. And you are trying to teach others the language.
    From the dictionary (you like to send others to dictionaries)
    Ustar. 1. Based on this word, assurance. This was a man of a patriarchal way, he conducted his trading affairs in the old manner, honestly, honestly, without bills and receipts (Wanderer. Shackles). I recalled a long-read story from the time of the French Revolution, when a boy released on parole returned under execution to an enemy officer (A. Gaidar. School)
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 15 September 2018 12: 50
      0
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      Alexander expresses his thoughts clearly. And, in Russian.

      Your opinion in our discussion with green is the least that interests me.
      You fit in without even knowing the gist of the discussion. What a bad habit?negative
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      You signed your message that you don’t know what it means "on parole"if you need receipts for this.

      .1. In the furnace your rating. Who are you? belay fool
      2. The equal sign between the receipt and the word of honor put green:
      The Soviet government at first let go honestly all your enemies.

      Here most iconic figures.
      «Subscription
      Major General Melnikov


      There are no more receipts.
      The lying empty chatter of propaganda about oral "honest words" "given" by people is unknown to whom: the jailer, the commissioner, the janitor or someone else is not worth a broken penny, considering them simply pathological Lying.
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      (you love others to dictionaries to send)

      And not just dictionaries yes