Military Review

The unexpected war of Nazi Germany with the USSR. Part of 19. Air defense

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The unexpected war of Nazi Germany with the USSR. Part of 19. Air defense



We will continue the consideration of events in the air defense units on the eve of the war.

RCB of the 1 Air Defense Corps. "22 June 1941 of the year. 0 – 10. The corps commander, Major General of Artillery, was summoned to the commander of the Moscow air defense zone, Major General Gromadin.

1 – 40. On the basis of the instructions received in the Military Council, the corps commander, Major General of Artillery, T. Zhuravlev, ordered expand on alert 80% of all parts.

4 – 30. Upon receipt of data on the violation of the border by German aircraft and the bombing of Brest-Litovsk parts of the 1 air defense corps alarm is declared.

5 – 00. The corps commander ordered the deployment 100% parts to full combat readiness and occupy FOR [anti-aircraft artillery], ZPL and ZPR OP according to plans.

5 – 20. The commander of the 24 air division reported that parts of the division are ready to repel the enemy's raid.

8 – 20. Parts of the corps, on the orders of the corps commander, emerged from the 251 and 329 zap each from Kosterovo camp with three batteries of their own.

9-30. Out of camp Kosterovo from 193 zap - three batteries and two searchlight companies; from 176 zap - seven batteries; from 745 zap - two batteries - the order of the corps commander is carried out.

10-05. Fulfilling an order from the corps commander of the 1, the machine gun regiment marched to Moscow.

17 – 00. Two battalions of the 1 regiment were informed of their arrival in Moscow.

19 – 00. According to the reports of the parts on the OP steel: 176 zap - 4 batteries and 1 live battalion; 193 zap - 4 [battery]; 251 zap - 11 [batteries] and 1 [live battalion]; 250 zap - 5 [batteries] and 3 companies of searchlights; 329 zap - 6 batteries and 1 live bat; 745 zap - 3 battery.

Total stands at OP 102 battery and 18 searchlight mouth artillery regiments. The ammunition in the batteries is of medium caliber = 25795 and small caliber = 7000. VNOS posts from 596 according to the deployment plan, 565 = 93% was deployed.

23th of June 1941 Parts of the corps continue to carry out the order to enter the OP.

18-00. Anti-aircraft artillery took, on the basis of the order No. 008 OP 58 batteries 76 / m and 72 batteries 85 m / m, and the total 120 batteries. On the way from the camp Kosterevo there are two batteries. MZA has become on OP completely ...

The 1 th anti-aircraft machine-gun regiment with two battalions — 2 and 3 — began at the OP in Moscow with the 54 OP, and 1 had become on the approaches to Rublevo. Cartridges are provided on 100%.

Searchlight shelves 1 and 14 and also searchlights zap steel on OP.

Balloon barriers have become on the OP: 1-th regiment AZ along the line: Tushino, Arkhangelsk, V. Romashkovo. The 9 th regiment of the AZ in the reduced composition is replenished with hydrogen at the plant No. XXUMX and the finished AZ occupies the following positions: Tushino, Axmolino, Vorobyevsky settlement. VNOS posts turned around completely
... »

The first entry in the OBD concerns an order to deploy 80% of the body parts. The indicated number of air defense units being lifted is close to the number given in Tyulenev’s memoirs (75%), which Stalin allegedly called him. However, Stalin had more than an hour left from the Kremlin. The author does not believe in such a sluggishness of transmitting Stalin's orders ... Yes, and Tyulenev is resting at home at this time ... At the same time, the battle alarm of the corps not announcedtimeline not exhibited, documentation in part not sent. Everything is somehow sluggish ... Perhaps the indication of the withdrawal of 80% parts is an indication from an unknown person, as echoes of Directive No. 1. War at that time not waiting yet...

But as soon as information was received about the bombing of cities, then immediately comes the order to declare a combat alarm to parts of the corps. As in the saying: until the rooster pecked, the leadership of NGOs and the General Staff do not believe in the beginning of the 22 war of June ...

We see that in the headquarters of the Air Defense Corps, they are quite leisurely planning to nominate their units to the OP (including the defense of the Kremlin). The first indication of the lifting of the 80% of parts of the 1 Air Defense Corps is received only in 1-40, but the alarm is announced only in 4-30.

The 24th Air Defense Division is ready to repel enemy attacks by 5–20. Even after the announcement of the alarm, the first anti-aircraft batteries begin to advance to the OP only in the morning - at 8-20, and they took up their positions in the evening on 22.6.41. In accordance with the RM, the Germans had a fairly good long-range aviation and therefore it is impossible to say that German planes could not fly to Moscow on June 22, but on the 23rd they could ...

RCB 1 anti-aircraft machine gun regiment (1 Air Defense Corps): "22.6.41 in 6 – 30 The commander of the regiment, Major Comrade Nakashidze, was summoned to the headquarters of the Noginsk camp, where he received the order: "Air raid".

В 7 – 00 22.6.41 years alarm alert was announced the regiment, the regiment left the camp. The release of combat vehicles began in 9-40, the last car came out in 10-00. Part of the combat vehicles, 60%, was mothballed in Khimki.

The regiment was assigned a combat task: 2 battalions defend the Kremlin and one battalion - the Rublevsky and Cherepkovsky pumping stations ... The regiment occupied the OP and was completely ready to open fire in 23 – 00 22 June 1941 year
... "

Even for the defense of a particularly important object (the Kremlin), the machine gun units and the MPA left the camp after 7-00 22.6.41. They do not expect an air attack on Moscow, they do not wait ... And this is strange, because Directive No. 1 has already been sent to Western HE. But everything falls into place if only a few provocations are waiting, not war. Even if the war begins, it is not dangerous, because at the initial stage of the war, the fighting will take place slowly ...

RCB 1 anti-aircraft searchlight shelf (1 Air Defense Corps): "22.6.41 V 5 – 15 regiment declared 1 command of the air defense corps combat alarm. The gathering of the command and commanding staff to the regiment headquarters was organized. In 6-08, basically the entire command and commanding composition was assembled.

В 5 – 40 an order was received to mobilize the regiment according to the state of wartime with the call of the entire conscription on the agenda of the BEAD using the material part, weapons, fuel and other property NZ.

In 5-05, at a meeting of the commanding and commanding personnel, military order No. 001 from 22.6.41 was given. “... The corps command issued a military order. The units of the regiment of the state of wartime to take order in the area behind the zone according to the previously developed operational scheme. The combat readiness of all 21-00 means, the time of departure for the occupation of the combat order from the winter apartments 14-00 ... In the 19-30, the battalion commanders received combat reports on the engagement of order
... »

We can say that the air defense in the center is managed quickly: already in 5-40, an order to raise the conscript composition comes to the air defense regiment.

F.I. Meshchanov. "I got into the 1-th searchlight regiment. When the war began, I went to the regimental headquarters, they gave me an envelope, it says everything - position number, location. They gave people a searchlight and we took up fighting positions in the south of Moscow. I was the head of the floodlight station... "

M.A. Popov (1 searchlight regiment): "On the night of June 22, the alarm regiment was ordered to go to combat positions in the defense and defense of the capital ... I was called to the regimental headquarters, ordered to notify the projectors of the projectors to come to the service regiment... "

Postcards 9 airborne balloons (1 Air Defense Corps): "22.6.41. Moving the regiment from the camp near Zvenigorod to winter apartments in Krylatskoe. Start mobilization.

23 June. The 9 regiment AZ turned around and organized cash barriers in the area: ... 2) 1 Division (Art. Kutepov) - zone No. XXUMX, over the Kremlin
... »

Of stories 176 Zenap (1 Air Defense Corps): "By the beginning of hostilities, the regiment as part of 13 medium-caliber batteries, the MPA division and the regimental school was in camps. The 12 batteries and the floodlight battalion were in the security sector ...

22.6.41 in the 5-00 regiment was declared a combat alarm. Subunits of the regiment were tasked: immediately concentrate in Moscow, take order in their sector and begin to perform the combat task of defending the capital - Moscow
... »

From the history 1 Division 176 Zenap. "Combat alarm for divisions of the 176-th Zenap was given in 4-50 22.6.41. In the 1-division, by this time they were on their OP 2-i and 3-i batteries. The 1-i, 4-i and 5-i batteries were in lag. Kosterovo and should have arrived in the shortest possible time and occupied the OP air defense system in the city of Moscow. 18-00 22.6.41 1-I, 4-I and 5-I batteries, which arrived marching order, turned according to the order of battle and occupied the OP... »

RCB 3 Division 193 zenap. "22.6.41. In 5. The division's order was given to the division in the mornings and to be prepared for opening fire to 10-00. All batteries of the division in 10-00 were ready to open fire with the exception of the 13 battery, which by then was in camp. On the same day, the assigned structure began to arrive, and in the evening 80% of the assigned composition arrived... »

RCB 4 Division 251 zenap. "22.6.41. 4-47 The combat alert of the division has been announced. Do not pass through the sector division of enemy aircraft... "

From the history 745 Zenap. "By the beginning of the war, the regiment was in the Kosterev camp, after a mobilization was announced, it was redeployed to the southeastern air defense sector of the capital ... In the first days of the war 745 zenap turned to wartime states and, according to the organizational deployment scheme, selected 160 from its structure... »

In 176, Zenap slightly less than half of the funds were on OP. We remember that 12 battery personnel could not sit for weeks with their guns around the clock, i.e. the battery on duty alternated with each other. For the rest of the divisions and regiments there is no clarity: how many of them were on the OP and in the camps. According to the author, they were on the OP about 1 / 3.

RCB 6 IAK Air Defense. "22.6.41. Parts of the 6 AK Air Defense of Moscow on the combat alarm occupied their original position on the field hospital. Aerodromes for combat duty on the distant approaches of the Moscow air defense zone to cover the city of Moscow and the objects of its zone... "

Fighter aircraft to cover the sky of the capital began to occupy the starting position only 22 June.

RCB 732 zenap (MWO): "17 June, 1941, the first division as part of 2's batteries, went to the camp in Kosterovo to organize the organization of firing. 22 June 1941 of the year in 3-00 the first division was alerted and ordered to leave the camp. At the loading station Kosterovo, the division learns that German fascism attacked our homeland... »

RCB 14 st (MBO): "22.6.41. After the speech of the People’s Commissar for Foreign Affairs of t.Molotov and receiving a telegram on mobilization, the division commander Colonel Vasilyev ordered the division to be concentrated in the area of ​​winter apartments (Narofominsk). From 16-00, units began to move from camps to winter apartments to areas according to mobilization plans.... »

FSD 133 air defense batteries (ORVO): "From the outbreak of hostilities (22.6.41) to 27.6.41, the battery occupied the OP at Karachev station with the task of protecting the 29 warehouse... »

The presented materials do not contradict the VBD of the 1 air defense corps. The raising of the alarm and the withdrawal of air defense units from the camps began only after the start of the war. On June 21 no one in the Moscow air defense zone prepares for war. The amount of anti-aircraft weapons on the OD was on average about 1 / 3, which corresponded to OG No. 3.

Consider which areas in the 1 air defense corps were considered threatened: “Extract from the combat order No. XXUMX, the air defense 008 Moscow 1.



Entered into force by special order on the deployment of air defense systems or by announcing the mobilization of spacecraft.

«1. The Moscow air defense corps is threatened with an air attack from western and northwest state borders...

3. The corps with the operational subordinate 24 and 78 and air defense must be defended from the area of ​​attack: Pereslavl Zaleski - Kashin (claim) Torzhok (claim) Sychevka - Borodino - Maloyaroslavets - Serpukhov (claim) Lukhovtsy - Yuryev - Polish Pereslavl-Zaleski. The main task of the district's air defense is to defend Moscow. ... The combat formations of the artillery units should be deployed according to the scheme - Appendix No. XXUMX, the searchlight means - according to the scheme of Annex No. XXUMX, machine-gun means - according to the schemes - Annex No. XXUMX.

8. The interaction of air defense systems according to the plan (Annex No. XXUMX). The boundary height for the validity of the AI ​​and FOR 8 meters.

9. Terms of readiness, according to the table - Appendix №9 ... Commander of the 1 Air Defense Corps, Major General of Artillery Zhuravlev NSH 1 Air Defense Corps, Lieutenant Colonel Girshovich
... ”On June 18, the direction from the northwest state border, from the LVO, is a threatened direction.



Only after a declaration of war from the headquarters of the 1 Air Defense Corps documents are sent to subordinate units, which should be followed in wartime:

«745 Commander Zenap. An extract from the Shtakor Battle Order No. 008 on 2 sheets is transmitted. Instructions to the commander of the battery on 12 sheets. Instructions to the division commander on 15 sheets. The reference planning table is the interaction of IA and FOR at nighttime on 1 sheets. Instructions for floodlight units and units to ensure nighttime operations FOR 2 Foxes. Scheme of obstructed. Corps commander ordered: to obtain the listed documents put them into action immediately... "

The presented document is an analogue of the “Plans ...” within the air defense corps. The fact that he has the date 18.6.41 has nothing to do with the fact that the CA leadership was waiting for the 22.6.41 war. You, of course, know that the developed “Cover Plans ...” of individual districts on the eve of the war were sent to Moscow for approval.

On the first day of the war, an order was declared deputy. the chairman of the executive committee - the head of the Moscow anti-aircraft defense department S.F. Frolov, who said: “In connection with the threat of an air attack on the city, I declare in Moscow and the Moscow Region 13 hour 22 June 1941 Mr. threatened position". Thus, 21 June and on the night of June 22 events in accordance with the "Instruction on the interaction and the relationship between the bodies ..." not conducted.

The offices of the NKGB and the NKVD in Moscow and the Moscow region to 7 In the morning of 22, June 1941 was developed a “Plan of agent-operational activities ...”, which identified measures to ensure the state security of the capital and the region, including through the MUP. To 18 watches 22.6.41 all the headquarters of the mvmo cities received instructions on the introduction of "Threatened position", Blackout and on the transfer of local teams MUPO to the barracks position.

From the presented materials it can be concluded that at dawn 22.6.41 the party-military leadership of the country did not fear the raids of German aircraft on the capital and other cities.

But what about the situation in the city of Leningrad? After all, near the German-Finnish troops, which have aircraft and there are also waiting for provocative actions (or alleged war) 22 June. Only for 20-00 22.6.41 RU GSH specifies that the mobilization of the Finnish troops has not yet happened. The LVO is the first in the list of HEs to whom Directive No. XXUMX is addressed. We have seen above that, within the framework of the capital’s air defense, the direction from Leningrad is threatened by an air attack.

Leningrad covered the 2 th air defense corps. The OBD of the 2 Air Defense Corps is maintained from the 1939 of the year. The last journal entry before 22.6.41 has a date of 10.4.40.

RCB 2 Air Defense Corps. "22.6.41. 2-10. Pom.combat troops LVO Major General Artillery Kryukov ordered: Everyone to be in the field. Act on alarm number XXUMX.

2-10 - 2-50. Parts of the body alarm # XXNX has been declared.

3-15 - 6-05. Enemy aircraft in small groups 1-5 itself. made reconnaissance flights from the direction of Vyborg. Battery 115 zap fired 1. I.A.
[fighter aircraft] patrolling over a point in established zones ...

14-00. The corps commander informed the Gorkom VKP (b) about the need to increase the production and supply of hydrogen to the corps from the plant.
... [for filling barrage balloons].

24.6.41 A.Z. [barrage balloons] went up from 24-00 23.6 to 8-00 24.6 H = 2000 m ...»

RCB 65 OZAD. "22.6.41. Division as part of 3-x batteries in connection with the German attack, by order of the 2 air defense corps of the Military Military District turned into battle order and became an air cover... »

OBD 73 about VNOS. "22.6.41 AT 7 – 00 a telegram was received about the rise of the battalion VNOS posts ... The companies went out ... to places of deployment... »

We see that the NP VNOS, air defense units are not deployed in the LVO. Consequently, they were in readiness levels №3 or №4. Barrier balloons are prepared for lifting only to 24.6.41. In the CCD there is a single shot of an anti-aircraft artillery battery of the 115-zenap against enemy planes. 115 zenap was stationed in the area of ​​Lisiy Nos and its batteries on duty were at the OP and could quickly open fire on enemy aircraft.

RCB 30 OZAD. "22.06.41 to 4-00. Germany, without declaring war, treacherously attacked the Soviet Union ... 17-15. Mobilization telegram received from local liaison office... »

В at three in the morning A.A. Kuznetsov, who replaced the 1-th secretary of the Leningrad city committee A.A. Zhdanova, gathered workers of the city committee and district committees and read them the Directive. By 6 in the morning (only after the beginning of the war) self-defense groups, teams of enterprises and part of the formations of the MUP. are on alert.

G.A. Veshchesky. "In the tenth of June, the district troops began to be brought into immediate combat readiness. I ... was instructed, within three days, to return the anti-aircraft, machine-gun and artillery units to the division, which had special shooting on the shore of Lake Ladoga. The anti-aircraft artillery division was hastily withdrawn from the district assembly and began to take up its positions near Leningrad. Artillery, concentrated for firing on the Strugirsky and Luga ranges, also returned to their divisions.... "

In the memoirs of the veteran it is said that in some units the LVO in the tenth of June began to withdraw anti-aircraft artillery from the camps. Earlier than this was done in PribOVO. However, the following two documents indicate that the district’s air defense units as of 22 June did exist in the camps.

Telephone message №2 8-00 22.6.41. "By order of pom. com the troops all means of anti-aircraft defense which are in the camps immediately call and upon arrival put in their places. About the readiness to inform the chief of Kotlas to 12-00 22 23 and June s / g Transmitted by the district brigade commander... »

RCB 213 OZAD RGC. "22.6.41. On the day when the Soviet government declared martial law in the country, due to the fact that German aviation in 4-00 bombed our cities and airfields. On this day, the 1-i and 3-i battalion batteries were in the camp Upper Nikulasy on the performance of live firing. The division expects the arrival of materiel and transport to travel to the state border to engage in defense ...

23.6.41. preparing vehicles for the trip. 4-00 1-i and 3-i batteries arrived in the division
... »

I.A. Shalov. "23.2.41 ... we took the military oath ... And a few days after that, the life of our battery ... changed: it received the task to change the standby battery, which was at the OP in 2-3 kilometers from the border with Finland ... By OP in the area of ​​the village of Bolshaya Polyana, we continued to be on duty until the end of May 1941-th. And then went to combat training shooting ...

21 June, we had a park day: we cleaned the equipment, washed the gun barrels ... 22 June 1941 of the year ... Usual sunny Sunday! After breakfast, a sports festival began in our unit ... In the middle of the game, Lieutenant Kucher approached the site and immediately called our battery commander ... "Volodya! - for all seriously spoke Kucher. - I just got off the station. The fascists attacked us. This is a war! ”Frankly speaking, we did not attach serious meaning to the word“ war ”
... "

RCB 21 OZAD (21 td 10 mk): "22-26.06.41. Formation of the division. Preparation of one of the batteries of the division to be sent to the front with 21 td... »

I.P. Shamyakin. "They called me to the SV in the fall of 1940 of the year ... We got into 33 back. It consisted of three batteries 76-mm guns, machine-gun and searchlight mouth ... Headquarters located in Kohl. There was also one of the batteries - the second. The first battery took up positions in Murmashi, covering the airfield and the Tuloma hydroelectric station. My third battery was stationed in Murmansk, guarding the port. In the neighborhood was one of the anti-aircraft batteries SF ...

The service on the training battery was heavy. Almost every night combat alarms: after the signal, it was required to run out of the dugouts in two minutes and bring the instruments and equipment to alert. And in the afternoon on 12 hours of occupation: the theory of firing, device PUAZO, range finder, guns, personal weapons, physical and drill. We were engaged a lot, but with all this, given the subsequent experience of the war, I think that they taught us badly ... During the 8 months of study, they only fired sausage with live shells and, by the way, did not get ...

The second time we shot 18 June 1941 of the year - on the plane of the Soviet design and with our identification marks. Within two days, this plane appeared several times over Murmansk and Murmashi, without giving the signal “I am my own”. Apparently, it was not easy for our commanders to decide that a disguised enemy was above us, a German or Finnish intelligence agent. And, nevertheless, they decided to open fire. The plane, unfortunately, we did not shoot down, but more he did not appear. All calmed down: with Germany, the nonaggression pact! ..

I never cease to wonder why our division, which covered such important objects, June 22 morning was not alarmed. On this tragic Sunday, the anti-aircraft gunners slept after breakfast, put themselves in order, wrote letters. On the beginning of the war with Germany, we, like the entire population of the country, learned from the speech of V.M. Molotov on the radio ... The batterymen had to clean the uncovered devices and tools for a long time. By strict statutory rules, rust even on the “paws” of the guns was considered an emergency ...

The fascists launched the first raid on the airfield in Murmash on the night of June 24. The word "night" must be understood relatively, for the sun was shining. The raid was massive, attacked at least a dozen two "Junkers-88", "Heinkel-111" and "Messerschmitt-109". They bombed the airfield mercilessly, with many visits. Quite a few of our fighters burned down on the ground, a warehouse of fuel exploded. The helplessness of our aircraft in air combat, as well as our inability to fire... made an oppressive impression
... "

I.G. Foreigners. "On the night of June 22 1941, the Military Council of the Leningrad Military District received a telegram from the Commissar of Defense ... with a warning about a possible attack by the German fascist troops on our country. The People's Commissar demanded to bring the troops into full combat readiness and not to succumb to provocations that could cause major complications. The air force ordered before dawn on 22 June to disperse all aircraft, including military airplanes, into field airfields, to disguise it carefully. [Before the arrival of Directive No. XXUMX, LVO aviation was not distributed.]

The Commander of the Air Force of the Military District of Latvia, Major General of Aviation A.A. Novikov, who was summoned to the district headquarters at night, ordered the commanders of air formations and units to declare alarm and prepare for military actions. Sirens screamed in the aviation garrisons and camps. Everything has come into motion. Pilots and technicians rushed to the airfields. In IAP, one squadron was assigned for duty, bomber bombers were prepared for striking the enemy. After 1-2 hours, the commanders of the air regiments and divisions reported on their readiness for combat sortie. Few knew what caused the alarm. I wanted to think that this is a common teaching, which in the summer of 1941 was quite a lot. But the general international situation involuntarily suggested a war. “Has it really begun?” Everyone thought. And the war was on... »

RCB 2 of the regiment VNOS. "20-00 24.6.41. The regiment is mobilized, it has: RP - 16, NP - 263, H-19 deployed according to the scheme approved by the Military Council of the LVO... "

From the submissions it follows that the air defense units in the LVO began preparing for war only after it began. In accordance with the presented materials, it can be said that the air defense units of the military air defense system could only be located in the gas station No. XXUMX or No. XXUMX. The exceptions were the air defense units of the Federation Council.

KOVO. Report on the combat activities of the VNOS of the Ostersky air defense brigade area: “22 VNOS [located in the zone of responsibility of the 5 Army]. At the time of the outbreak of hostilities the whole system of the battalion was raised and served in a reduced calculation. Private and ml.nachsostav was quite prepared for service. The registration of the 45 passed daily fees. All RP and NP were provided with material and weapons in peacetime states. From the first day of the war, the entire battalion system went over to the service of full combat crews ... Radio communication was used between the RP and the BP in the event of a telephone failure...

[NP 22 on rises after the start of the war, i.e. he was not in exhaust number xnumx.]

29 about VNOS. Before the outbreak of hostilities, the whole system of the battalion was raised, 4 people were collected at each NP. of the subscription, which were called 20.6.41g. and the head of the NP of the frame.

Of the recruited conscription, for combat service there were 50% trained and 50% not trained. The staff was prepared to perform the combat mission.
... "

29-th in accordance with the document was deployed before the start of the war and provided with a subscription composition. Within one air defense brigade area, one battalion is raised, and the other is not. There is no uniformity: it cannot be said that this region raised a part of the SPEC in order to prepare for the war on the morning of June 22. It could have been planned exercises or someone’s initiative, but not a team from Moscow or from the district to bring the air defense units to combat readiness.

618-th separate communication battalion (4-Air Defense Division, Lviv) was alerted at five o'clock in the morning 22.6.41, and began to perform combat missions.

4-th regiment VNOS (3-Air Defense Division, Kiev) began the deployment of 22.6.41 after receiving an order from the commander-in-chief for air defense, Major General A.I. Danilov.

RCB 286 OZAD. "June 22 1941 of the year. In 4-30, a telephone message was received from the main post of VNOS 29 on VNOS: "German aircraft violated the Soviet border." In 2 minutes, the 2 telephone message was received from the same post: "Vladimir-Volyn is being shelled by artillery from Germany."

The 3 telephone message in 4-37 was received from the same post: “A group of German U-88 aircraft is heading to Lutsk” “Lutsk is burning”, etc.

В 4 – 40 division given combat alarm. TO 5 – 30 Division firepower was are on alert
... »

In the area of ​​responsibility of 29 about the VNOS, fully deployed before the outbreak of war, 286 is located, which, after declaring an alarm only to 5-30, brings the firepower of the division to combat readiness: through 50 minutes after receiving an order for combat alarm. With such standards, 286 Ambush could not be located in OG No. 2 ...

From the history Xnumzad. "The 22.6.41 division followed to the city of Chernivtsi from the Lviv special camp and along the route (Stanislav) learned about the treacherous attack of Hitler's Germany on our homeland. Upon arrival in the city of Chernovtsy, the dr received the task of air defense of the city and the railway station... »

RCB 57 OZAD RGC. "22.6.41, the Division was assigned the task of defending the military warehouse №63 and railway. station Nezhin Occupied battle order - 1-I battery and machine gun company in 7 – 30 22.6.41. The 2-I battery arrived from the camps of Oster, occupied the OP in +19(45)24.6.41-XNUMX XNUMX...

RCB 141 OZAD. "22.6.41 6 – 00.The division being in the 3 division of the air defense covers the railway and highway bridge across the Dnieper River and the city of Cherkasy, took combat order according to the combat order for division No. XXUMX and the attached order of battle order... »

BJD 79 OSAD (81 md 4 micron): "The division took the order of battle 21.6.41g. in 23-00 on the protection of the Yanovsky camps ...

The battle path of the battery is 76-mm. 22.6.41 covering the air from the camp, the location of the 81 units md from the air, opened fire on enemy aircraft
... "

81 md on the night of 21.06.41 left its summer camp and 79 was also called from the Yanovsky camps. Conclusion 81 md from the camps on the eve of the war, we considered in the previous parts and again we will not discuss this issue.

Excerpt from the RCB 126 ozad RGC. "22.6.41 The division with one battery was fired at the Yavorsky camps in the Lviv region, and one battery was in the city of Tarnopol. After the treacherous attack of the Nazi Germany on the Soviet Union battery and the whole camp, a combat alarm was declared ... By the end of the 18-00 battery with other divisions of the division, it was ordered to return to the winter apartments in the city of Tarnopol to cover the city and military facilities... "

In Yanovsky camps is 126 Ozad, as well as 79 Ozad. However, 126 Ambush before the start of the war on alert is not given.

IN AND. Yanovsky. "My father, the senior battalion commissioner I.A. Yanovsky, Commissioner 183 zenap. The regiment was part of the 3 division of the air defense division and, together with other units, provided Kiev air defense ... 21 June 1941, the regiment ended with an inspection check of military and political training, and the father was about to go on holiday to the Crimea. However, on the night of June 22 we were woken up by a phone call - the father was immediately called into the unit. He quickly got ready, and on the car that arrived behind him, he left for the regiment's command post, who was in the suburb of Svyatoshino ... After my father left the house, we barely slept, waited for the call. Finally, he called and told us to be ready for the worst. Already by three o'clock in the night of 22 June, all parts of the Kiev air defense were brought on alert. 183 Zenap entered the battle at dawn 22 June 1941... ”In the 183 th zenap of the 3 air defense division, by the end of the day of 21 June, the war is not expected, and bringing it to combat readiness is an echo of Directive No. XXUMX.

Xnumzad (39 td 16 mk) 22.6.41 marched from Chernivtsi to Voloka, Lukovitsa and did not expect a war.

19 VNOS (Lviv Air Defense Division) raises an alarm on the night of June 22 1941.

I.E. Baryshpolts (commander of the battery 509 zenap, 4 air defense division, Lviv): "In my commanding 3-30 ... In the nearest hawthorn bushes under camouflage nets our anti-aircraft guns are in combat positions - 85-mm guns. We have just received a new PUAZO-3 anti-aircraft gun fire control device and are very proud that our battery was one of the first in the regiment that successfully mastered it.

“Stop! Who is coming? .. ”- the call of the sentry comes to me. Having called the password, I pass to the position. “Comrade Lieutenant! The first gun in readiness number one. Calculation in the shelter ", - the commander of the weapon sergeant Kuznetsov reports on the whole form
... [One weapon in readiness №1 from the whole battery.]

“Raise Lieutenant Bocharov! Tell me that the battalion commander is alarming! ”“ I obey - call the platoon commander, Lieutenant Bocharov! ”- the sergeant rushed into the trench, to the phone ...

The battle crew silently took their places when they heard the arrival of the senior commander. For the fifth day, as the anti-aircraft gunners are on duty for the protection of the object - the city of Lviv, replacing the battery Lieutenant Mironenko in positions ...

Arrived Lt. Bocharov. He reported on the form, but came closer and barely audibly added: "Comrade Lieutenant, the 4 battery has been declared a combat alarm by order of the regiment commander." He looked at his watch: four in the morning, five minutes to five. I did not have time to respond to him, as the howler gave a harsh voice. Quickly I jumped into the trench to the telephone operator, who was already pushing me the phone, and immediately heard the baritone of Major Kozhevnikov - the division commander: “Battle alarm! A battery to open fire on German aircraft - violators of the border! .. "

Ran on battery gearbox ... Everything is already in place on a combat schedule. Loudly, at the top of my voice, I give the command: “Battery, to battle!” In response, I hear reports from the commanders of the firing platoons - and then I give target designation. Everything is like on the test site last week, and everything is not so. Together with the approaching aircraft, with the roar of the shots of the already firing batteries of our regiment, the voltage increases. I do not remember how quickly, when, at which moment I ordered: “Fire! ..”

And the German planes go and go. Their height is more than two thousand meters. Around them - above and below - a continuous cloud of explosions of our shells. But the formation of the aircraft slowly turns into a steep dive. The roar of explosions shook the earth. Some people are confusedly looking in the direction of goals and, probably, do not see anything except smoke and fiery flashes ...

And the long-barreled eighty-fives beat and beat the fascist vultures ...

Taking advantage of the respite, everything, from the commanders of platoons and guns to loaders and carriers, jumped out of hiding places, battle posts, observation points. Together with them, I run to the shot down German plane ... At six o'clock in the morning
... »

From the above fragment of the memoirs it is impossible to conclude that the 509 zenap is located in the FG No. 2. In the battery one duty weapon. Unknown number of duty batteries in the regiment.

From the history 122 ot Zen bullets company. "With 22.6 on 25.7.41, the company covered the railway. bridge h / z river. South Bug s.Gubnik... »

Special message 3 of the 1.7.41 NGO Management: "Despite the signals about the real possibility of an enemy attack, individual commanders of units of the South-Western Front failed to quickly repel the enemy attack ... the air defense was poorly organized. Anti-aircraft artillery of five air defense brigades of the front and rear, consisting of 37-mm and 85-mm anti-aircraft guns, did not have shells for them ... Anti-aircraft artillery 18 zenap of the 12 army, guarding the city of Stanislav from enemy air raids, did not have 37 -mm shells... "

The author failed to find any mention of the introduction of blackout or blackout in cities or garrisons in Ukraine. We see that there are no materials confirming the transfer of KOVO air defense units to FG No. 2 as of 21 June 1941. From the presented materials it can be concluded that they could only be in the FG No. XXUMX or No. XXUMX.

SOBOVO. RCB 622 OZAD. "22.6.41 The division took the OP on the defense of the military 40 Voenbazy. The composition of the division is two four-gun batteries, 8 stan. Machine guns ..., two searchlights... »

TS Burov. "With 23.6.41, I got another vacation, and I wanted to leave on Sunday, 22-th ... Exactly at four in the morning I, the battery commander, was alarmed and summoned to 36 headquarters ... with an order to urgently arrive in the Brest region. When he arrived at headquarters, almost all the commanders had already gathered there. My commander, Captain Puito, announced that fascist Germany had treacherously violated the USSR border. This is a war ... The battery had almost no projectiles. In order to successfully fight, we needed to have 2,5 BK, and we only had 0,5... "

A.U. Bekirov. "I came to Belarus in the direction of Vitebsk, where I began serving in 313 district of subordination ... After a few months, we had to go to Belarusian forests for an exercise ... But suddenly we are told that we will not go to the exercises, because must occupy the defense of Vitebsk. We ordered us to take the OP near military airfields, make pits for vehicles, install searchlights, dig trenches for ourselves, and we prepared several such positions: near the airfield, at the railway station, at the military unit ... Early in the morning of June 22 in 4-00 they built us in alarm and declare that fascist Germany attacked our country ... We went to the position to protect the airfield... "

N.N. Osintsev (NSH of the 188 division, zenap of the 7 of the air defense brigade): “From the 3 of the first number I began to be engaged in the formation of this division: to receive personnel, materiel, ammunition ... We did not have time ... to finish this formation, as the 22 of June began the war. The war, of course, did not come as a complete surprise to us. After all, we all, while we served until that time, were in semi-combat such readiness... In the summer of the 1941 of the year, at its very beginning, we stood at the OP around Minsk and partially went to the firing range. It happens, we will go, we will carry out the shooting, then we will arrive in Minsk and there we will again take up the position. So at the barracks at that time, we almost did not live: so it was spinning all the time.

By the time it was in May 1941, our 188 zenap ... was considered such a solid part. After all, it consisted of five divisions, and this - 60 pieces of guns. The guns, as I said, were originally 37 and 76-mm. But then, just before the war, we began to receive new guns - 85-mm. In addition, each battery, which already had its four guns, then began to receive an additional four guns. Meanwhile, the transport for the movement of the material part was not enough even to transport the main part of it to the right place. We should have received it only in the case of mobilization. 20 of the first ... all of us who remained in the town were alarmed. We then occupied the OP around Minsk. And on the 22 of the first day of the morning, 4 heard the sounds: boom-boom-boom-boom. It turned out that this German aviation unexpectedly flew into our airfields.
... "

The 20 number went to the OP - this is two days later the anti-aircraft artillery units of PribOVO. Borrowing an OP is not the introduction of Regulation No. XXUMX. This may be Position No. 2.

History of 7 Dep. Air Defense Brigade. "NGOs by order of Minsk Brigadier District Air Defense was established in April 1941 years with paragraphs Minsk, Molodechno, Bobruisk, Borisov, the Berezina, Svisloch, columns, which included parts: Minsk - 188 zenap (1, 2, 3, 5 divisions), 5 VNOS regiment, 191 separate battalion battalion, 30 omzad, 17 odoz, 5 ORS; Molodechno - 209; Bobruisk - 174; Borisov - 4 division 188 zenap, 85; Berezina - 108; Svisloch - 51; Columns - 111 vozr.

Before 22.6.41, units were engaged in combat training, repeatedly firing in camps. All military training in the camps took place in accordance with the instructions of the People's Commissar of Defense ...

21.6.41 air defense point Minsk began exercises. 22.6.41 in 4-15 posts of the 5 regiment VNOS reported that the planes of Nazi Germany began to bomb the peaceful cities of our Motherland: Grodno, Bialystok, Brest-Litovsk, etc ...

Parts of the Minsk garrison brigade involved in the exercise were ordered to have warheads at all the firing points and turn around on the second positionIe in the frame of peacetime. The units located in the Krupki camp, take order of battle, according to the operational plans for air defense points
... "

In accordance with the document, in the Minsk region of the air defense, under the guise of exercises, OG No. 2 was introduced. At the same time, there is a mention that the air defense of Minsk 22 June was carried out by eight anti-aircraft batteries of two-guns. It turns out that at the OP of the 7 Brigade of the Air Defense Forces there were only 16 anti-aircraft guns out of the 60 available - this is less than 30% of anti-aircraft weapons. The remaining funds were at the site. If there were these eight two-gun batteries in exhaust number xnumx (according to temporary standards for opening fire), this does not mean that the whole brigade was located in output number xnumx. Most of the brigade was in the camps. In total, over the entire 2 Brigade of Air Defense, operational readiness could not be higher than No. 2.

The Bialystok brigade area was covered by the 4 th air defense brigade. The actions of the brigade to repel the first raids of fascist aviation were shackled by the order of the commander of the Western air defense zone, General S.S. Sazonov, according to which, in order to avoid provocations, it was forbidden to open fire on enemy aircraft until a special order. Only after 8 in the morning of June 22 was this order canceled by the commander of the 10 army, Lieutenant-General KD Golubev.

The Baranovichi air defense brigade covered the 518 and 751 zenap. The 518 regiment was located in Baranavichy and was armed with two divisions of 85-mm guns. However, on the first day of the war, shells began to run out at the regiment's anti-aircraft guns and German bombers began to bomb our troops with impunity. 28 On June, the 13 Army Headquarters reported that “its 518 Zenap, which has a new hardware, but not a single projectile, passed through its battle formations”.

Grodno defended 64 anti-aircraft 751 zenap air defense. Shells they only lasted for two hours. Already from 6 in the morning German planes flew over the city with impunity.

12 346 guns 85 szad station stood on the outskirts of Grodno. During 22 June, Ambush spent around 600 shells, knocking down 5 aircraft.

Despite the fact that 188 zenap of this brigade only received new 85-mm guns and mastered them in the course of the battle, 22.6.41 anti-aircraft gunners shot down six enemy aircraft over Minsk.

In the fortress fortification south of Berezina station was located 174 air defense missile defense complex. 15 May 1941, he arrived from Polotsk. Immediately took combat order. Three battalion batteries of the division, each armed with four 85-mm guns, and a searchlight company stood on duty. Being on combat duty, the personnel made engineering equipment for the positions, at the same time engaged in combat training, preparing to conduct combat shooting in mid-June landfill.

393 Xenum 42 sd in the morning of June 22 under enemy fire brought three cannons without shells out of burning Brest, after which it was sent to Bereza-Kartuzskaya for ammunition. Having received shells, the division already on the first day of the war shot down up to four enemy aircraft.

86 Xenum 2 ck 24 June hit one enemy plane and hit five, using the entire 317 76-mm anti-aircraft shot.

The air defense of the city of Polotsk was assigned to 324 air defense missile defense, 2's 8 company on VNOS, which were part of the Vitebsk air defense brigade region, and 182 IAP (59 air defense defense).

324 Ozad consisted of three fire batteries, anti-aircraft guns and searchlight companies, as well as combat and rear support units. On each weapon of the fire batteries were 4 76-mm anti-aircraft guns obr.1931g. Firepower supplemented 12 7,62-mm quadruple anti-aircraft machine gun installations "Maxim" sample 1931g. and 3 12,7-mm machine gun DShK. At night, 16 of the searchlight stations of the searchlight company provided a search for an air enemy at the maximum range of 12000 meters. The selection of the battalion's OP batteries ensured a triple overlap of the shelling zones over the center of Polotsk, which should primarily provide reliable cover for the bridges across the Western Dvina river.

Numerous warehouses of the Polotsk garrison were either covered by air defense missiles, or they had their own air defense weapons, of which very little is known. For example, the artillery depot No.324 (Polot railway station) was defended by the 69 individual battery of a battalion of local rifle troops.

324 Ozad was located on the district test site under Krupkami of the Borisov region. To cover the facilities of the city of Polotsk from him was left 3-I battery. 22 June in 4-13 to the commander of the Vitebsk air defense brigade region received a telegram signed by the commander of the ZAPOVO air defense commander, Major General S.S. Germans during 2 – 22 June 23. All commanders of subordinate units and subunits, including the commander of 1941, were notified of the VNOS and 8 of the air defense command post by the operational duty officer of the main air defense post.

Photos about the combat path 324 air defense. "At the time of the predatory invasion of the German fascist invaders within our homeland, the division with the exception of one battery, was in the camps m. Krupki on the performance of combat shooting.

24.6.41 all combat units arrived at the winter apartments of the city of Polotsk and occupied the former OP to repel enemy air raids
... »

RCB 86 OZAD. "5.5.41-21.6.41. The division is engaged in combat and political training.

22.6.41. The perfidious attack of fascist Germany on the USSR. By order of the head of the Air Defense Forces 2, the sk division is sent to the city of Minsk to receive a combat mission.

23.6.41. The division arrived in Minsk. a combat mission is received - to cover the railway station. Not burned. recruited mobilization personnel
... »

V.F. Parshin (Deputy Commander of the 2 Company VNOS): "At the beginning of the war, I was on the road from Vitebsk to Polotsk. The report I received from the platoon commander mln.-lieutenant M.S. Balitsky about the deployment of the company on alert, the arrival of the assigned composition ... 7-00 part of the posts already worked. 11-00 - 12-00 75% TMs were deployed and started up. To 18-00, the deployment of a company with the delivery of property and personnel ended.

The absence of the first persons of the garrison - the commander of 17 SD, Major General TK Batsanov, the commander of 324, Air Defense Forces, and the commander of the 2 Company VNOS, led to a violation of the warning scheme that existed in case of war. The failure in the notification led to the fact that most parts and institutions of the city learned about the perfidious invasion of the German army from the speech of V.M. Molotov on radio in 12-15
... "

Summary of air defense 22.6.41: "The operation of the VNOS service is bad - they notify when they are unable to recognize aircraft types over the object;... "

If there is only RP and BP, it is impossible to control the airspace under which the NP VNOS is not deployed, but it is only possible to detect enemy planes in some objects. Again, we see that the positions of VNOS have not been deployed, a lot of anti-aircraft artillery is located in the camps, which cannot indicate the introduction of OG number 2 on the territory of ZOVOVO as of 21.6.41 ...

OdVO. A brief history of 15 VNOS. "Battalion dislocation: 1. The battalion headquarters is Pervomaisk, Odessa region. 2. 1 company - m. Kodymo, Odessa region. 3. 2 company - Kotovsk, Odessa region. 4. 3 company - Voznesensk, Odessa region. 5. 4 company - Kirovograd, Kirovograd region ...

According to staff No. 050 / 26, the battalion is assigned 846 people, and in peacetime 248 people, thus 596 people. are registered composition. The registration structure is mostly untrained, which was strongly reflected in the first days of the war, on the performance of the surveillance service. All posts battalion area June 22 were raised, i.e. on the first day of the war. The first was raised posts company, where the commander, Lieutenant comrade. Solovyov. The second, where the commander is Captain T. Remeshevky. The posts of these companies were located in the responsible area along the Dniester River. In total, there were 77 VNOS posts in the battalion.
... "

16 VNOS also begins deployment on the night of June 22.

RCB 162 Dep. battalion. "Before the 21.6.41, the Battalion occupies the OP with the task: defense ... of oil storage facilities No.1, No.2, No.3 and Zastava-1 station.

22.6.41. The Germans did not declare war treacherously attacked our homeland. The battalion received combat orders and took the OP according to the previously prepared scheme. He began to mobilize the replenishment of wartime states
... »

Some anti-aircraft defense units of the Odessa region from 7 in May to 5 in June 1941 worked combat firing at the Akkerman artillery range, but the rest were to be shot in the period from July 10 to September 5

RCB 18 OZAD. "22.6.41 20-00. The division was raised in 5-45 on alert and in 8-00 spoke in the area of ​​the OP 2 km Yu.Z. Akkerman st. The 19-00 2 b [battery] under m.Feldchiu opened the first shooting at the fascist reconnaissance, not allowing him to reconnaissance... »

RCB Ozad (there is no sheet with the name of the ass): "Camp Akkerman. 22.6.41. 5-00 declared a combat alarm camp. The whole camp is curtailed. Dn [division] under its own power goes to Chisinau ... 23.6.41. By the end of the day, steel on the point of protection of Chisinau ...»

History fighting Xnumzad. "The next shooting day was appointed 22 June c / g, but with the declaration of war, the division was immediately summoned to the city of Akkerman ... From 22.6.41 to 3.7.41 the division was at the OP in the city of Akkerman... »

In the Crimea, air defense units subordinate to 9 Dep. body, also not previously displayed on the OP. There is information that 317 Zenap 22.6.41 moved to the OP in the city of Evpatoria.

From the few materials it can be seen that parts of VNOS were not deployed before 21 June, and part of the anti-aircraft weapons were in camps. NS OdVO Zakharov does not indicate in his memoirs about the transfer of air defense and air force units to June 21 in OG No. XXUMX. Therefore, it is impossible to conclude that the air defense system OdVO was transferred to FG No. XXUMX, just like the air defense system PribOVO.

Thus, from the submissions that are currently publicly available, it is impossible to conclude that the air defense units of the border districts were located in FG No. XXUMX, with the exception of the PribOVO units. Therefore, the documented fact of the transfer of anti-aircraft defense systems in PribOVO to FG No. XXUMX and the recall of all anti-aircraft units from the camps can be considered a personal initiative of the district command.

The article used materials from the book “Belarus. Memorable summer 1944 of the year.
Author:
Articles from this series:
The unexpected war of Nazi Germany with the USSR. 13 part
The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 14)
The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 15)
The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 16)
The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 17)
The unexpected war of Nazi Germany with the USSR. Part of 18. Air defense
195 comments
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  1. Ales
    Ales 9 September 2018 06: 29
    +15
    Thanks to the author for the material, confirmed by a huge number of documents. I will wait for the continuation.
    1. RuSFr
      RuSFr 9 September 2018 07: 44
      +10
      Join
      many are waiting for the author, publish material
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 9 September 2018 10: 32
    +2
    "The presented document is an analogue of the" Plans ... "within the Air Defense Corps. The fact that it has a date of 18.6.41 has nothing to do with the fact that the leadership of the spacecraft was expecting the war on 22.6.41." ... very difficult military -political aspect. Considering that in the initial period of the war many documents fell into the hands of the enemy, the presence of documents on the specific preparation of troops for hostilities could adversely affect the foreign policy level and would allow the aggressor to present arguments against the USSR ... like we defended ourselves and it is not known which then there was an alignment of the allies ... and they would have been.
  3. VS
    VS 9 September 2018 11: 33
    -13
    "" The first entry in the ZhBD concerns the order to deploy 80% of the corps units. The indicated number of air defense units being lifted is close to the number given in Tyulenev's memoirs (75%), which Stalin allegedly named to him. However, Stalin had already left the Kremlin for more than an hour. The author does not believe in such a slow transmission of Stalin's orders ... Yes, and Tyulenev is resting at home at this time ... At the same time, the combat alert is not announced to the corps units, the deadlines are not set, the documentation in the unit is not sent. Everything is somehow sluggish ... Perhaps, the indication of the withdrawal of 80% of the parts is an indication from an unknown person, as echoes of Directive No. 1. War at this time is not yet expected ... "

    here is the restless anonymous)))

    Moscow air defense is given in bg because at the same time ALL troops a, air defense and navy are given in b..g.- about the b / n directive which our anonymous lady stubbornly calls Number 1)))

    She, you see, doesn’t believe in something, and that means it CANNOT be)))

    MADAM - If they don’t expect a war, then DO NOT bring to b..g ALL the troops, the Air Force, Air Defense and the Navy and do not occupy the firing points on the border)))

    Madame - SO WHEN will you name your name - why are you afraid - that they will find out the name of the next forger - rubbing on the basis of documents that she does not understand - that the attack was not expected in the Kremlin on June 22 ??))

    They gave orders to complete yu .. g and do not expect an attack ??)))
  4. VS
    VS 9 September 2018 11: 38
    -10
    "" But as soon as information about the bombing of cities is received, an order is immediately issued to declare a combat alert to the corps units. As the saying goes: until the rooster pecks, the leadership of the NGO and the General Staff does not believe in the start of the war on June 22 ...

    We see that the air defense corps headquarters are rather leisurely planning to move their units to the base (including the defense of the Kremlin). The first indication to lift 80% of the 1st Air Defense Corps units is received only at 1-40, but the alarm is announced only at 4-30. "

    madam - I’ll tell you a terrible secret - the German Air Force stupidly could not fly to Moscow in those days) and in the Kremlin knew this completely)))

    To repel the first raids, IT IS SUFFICIENT TO LEAD IN FULL bg. parts of the air defense completely))) Bringing to FULL or even increased - THIS IS IN THIS CASE - alarm and complete b .. g. Namely on alarm and generally entered)))

    And the fact that they bombed the cities of the city where from Moscow and the alarm in Moscow’s air defense was announced only after this does not mean that they did not expect an attack in Moscow)))
  5. VS
    VS 9 September 2018 11: 45
    -10
    "" from the materials presented, which are currently in the public domain, it cannot be concluded that the air defense units of the border districts were located in OG No. 2, with the exception of PribOVO parts. Therefore, the documented fact of the transfer of anti-aircraft air defense systems to PribOVO to OG No. 2 and the recall of all anti-aircraft units from the camps can be considered a personal initiative of the district command. ""

    So why, after the war, the question was asked ALL districts - ALL commanders - Question No. 4. WHY ARE THE MOST PART OF THE ARTILLERY WERE AT THE TRAINING CENTERS?

    And answering EVERYTHING practically and on anti-aircraft artillery they answered - ON THE FIRST SITES she was often at the time of the attack ..

    And the previous questions were -
    Question # 2. FROM WHAT TIME AND ON THE BASIS OF WHICH ORDER OF THE COVERAGE TROOPS STARTED THE EXIT TO THE STATE BORDER, AND WHAT NUMBER OF THESE WAS DEPLOYED BEFORE THE BATTLE BATTLES?

    Question No. 3. WHEN THE ORDER ON Bringing to combat readiness in communications was received WITH THE EXPECTED ATTACK OF Fascist GERMANY FROM JUNE 22 JUNE; WHAT AND WHEN THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR PERFORMING THIS ORDER WAS GIVEN AND WHAT WAS DONE BY THE MILITIES?

    And after that the anonymous Madame stubbornly rubs that the attack was not expected ??

    WHY SO ask questions if they did not wait for the attack and instructions and orders were not given to him - about the withdrawal of the covering forces and about bringing them to the base station?))

    Madame - SO WHEN you name your name - WHAT DO YOU SO fear?)))
  6. VS
    VS 9 September 2018 11: 49
    -11
    Quote: Strashila
    "The presented document is an analogue of the" Plans ... "within the Air Defense Corps. The fact that it has a date of 18.6.41 has nothing to do with the fact that the leadership of the spacecraft was expecting the war on 22.6.41." ... very difficult military -political aspect. Considering that in the initial period of the war many documents fell into the hands of the enemy, the presence of documents on the specific preparation of troops for hostilities could adversely affect the foreign policy level and would allow the aggressor to present arguments against the USSR ... like we defended ourselves and it is not known which then there was an alignment of the allies ... and they would have been.


    Madame the author stubbornly drags the idea - regardless of the facts and what she herself leads - they did not wait for the attack and did not prepare for it ..
    And if cho was done in the districts, then on the personal initiative of brave commanders))) contrary to Stalin, of course)))

    Why does she do this - the devil knows her. I'm afraid this is another reason for drawing here - and La Solonin, who also dug up a lot of documents and facts, that by June 22nd there was a cast in BG. in the Air Force, but they didn’t wait for the attack because they wanted to attack either in July or on June 23)))

    I’m afraid - then she will most likely conclude that since the attack was not expected, it means they wanted to attack themselves in July)))
  7. VS
    VS 9 September 2018 11: 55
    -11
    ""Only after the declaration of war documents are sent from the headquarters of the 1st Air Defense Corps to subordinate units, which should be guided in wartime: ""

    Well, and what problems then ??))

    Moreover, ALL parts are given in bg. BEFORE the attack and the BATTLE alarm is declared - AFTER the attack))

    Troops around the neighborhood opened red packages on the ORAL command of Timoshenko from 2.30 and WRITTEN orders of the NCO and the General Staff came to the packages at 4 o'clock in the morning - a real "directive number 1")))
  8. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 September 2018 11: 09
    +7
    If the KREMLIN defended air defense only to 23 – 00 June 22, it says a lot about the degree of Unavailability and surprise of the attack.
    1. VS
      VS 10 September 2018 12: 53
      -10
      Quote: Olgovich
      If the KREMLIN defended air defense only to 23 – 00 June 22, it says a lot about the degree of Unavailability and surprise of the attack.

      stupid things. It does NOT say anything. In those days, the Germans were stupidly unable to get the KREMLIN with their Air Force)))) The Germans were able to make their first raid on Moscow already a month later - MONTH !!! - after June 22 ..

      You showed an example of how ignorance of stupidity is born as a result - "if the KREMLIN defended its air defense only to 23 – 00 June 22, it says a lot about the degree of unpreparedness and unexpectedness of the attack ")))
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 10 September 2018 17: 26
        +4
        do you know everything? write about 41 years and close the topic
        see mine to 18 parts
        1. VS
          VS 10 September 2018 21: 34
          -9
          Quote: antivirus
          do you know everything? write about 41 years and close the topic
          see mine to 18 parts

          if to me - so I wrote 9 books - and specifically about the 41st year - about the pre-war days - and they were published - over 9 years))) And I don’t hide my name as our madame actor from the reader))
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 10 September 2018 22: 04
            +2
            What to read?
            I remember in the early 70s, my father silently read memoirs-memoirs
            and silently surprised
            recalled military childhood--
            comprehended the consequences
            antivirus 7 July 11, 2016 09:04 | Five questions of Stalin
            conclusions will be only after 2041 g
            When all those interested in them (precisely determine the reasons) die
            In 1982, my father told me (new trousers, he could not fasten his buttoned fly with his left hand): but I can do anything and anything. Seen enough on the disabled after the war.
            Already by the 37th anniversary of the Victory of the disabled there were no more
    2. RuSFr
      RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 42
      +2
      exactly. if the Kremlin wasn’t defended, there would be no war
  9. ccsr
    ccsr 10 September 2018 11: 41
    -8
    Author:
    aKtoR writes
    Even for the defense of a particularly important object (the Kremlin), machine-gun units and MZA left the camp after 7-00 on 22.6.41. They are not waiting for an air attack on Moscow, they are not waiting ... And this is strange, because Directive No. 1 has already been sent to Western HE.
    .
    From the presented materials it can be concluded that at dawn 22.6.41 the party-military leadership of the country did not fear the raids of German aircraft on the capital and other cities.

    If the author had bothered to study the performance characteristics of the main Luftwaffe bombers in 1941 (He-111, Ju-88, Do-17), then he was surprised to learn that they practically could not organize the bombing of Moscow even from Finland, if only because I had to fly unaccompanied by fighters most of the route, and for several hours. That is why the first bombing of Moscow began a month after the start of the war, when German bombers were already at Soviet airfields in the area of ​​Orsha, Vilnius, Minsk.
    The author apparently does not suspect that the air defense leadership of the spacecraft knew about the capabilities of German bomber aircraft, which is why they acted on the basis of common sense, and not under the influence of emotions.
    Therefore, it is not surprising that the bombing of Moscow was not expected on June 22 — a sober calculation and no more. Apparently speculations about the actions of air defense in the Moscow region are used in order to once again distort the history of the Second World War, especially its initial period.
  10. BAI
    BAI 10 September 2018 13: 32
    -2
    Yes, with the likelihood of a raid on Moscow on June 22, the girl was a little blundered.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 10 September 2018 13: 43
      -7
      Quote: BAI
      0
      Yes, with the likelihood of a raid on Moscow on June 22, the girl was a little blundered.

      But for what "original" conclusions on the actions of the leadership of the Red Army were presented to us - well, right, Alice in Wonderland ...
    2. VS
      VS 16 September 2018 16: 06
      -3
      Quote: RuSFr
      exactly. if the Kremlin wasn’t defended, there would be no war

      Mmaladets))))
  11. aKtoR
    10 September 2018 18: 00
    +3
    Opinion literary fiction writer Kozinkin and his military consultant Milchakov sounded above that in Moscow they were not afraid of the enemy raid due to the insufficient range of German aircraft. This is seen by hundreds of readers.
    Since we are adults, I would like these falsifiers-rezunisty to bring their evidence in the form of facts. These amateurs for many years use only Wikipedia to build their nonsense versions.
    Bring the FACTS FOR WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE.
    And I preyadno poke after both of you in a puddle, like shkodnyh puppies.
    Let's unrecognized geniuses their arguments))))
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 10 September 2018 19: 27
      -10
      Quote: aKtoR
      Since we are adults, we would like these falsifier-rezunists to bring their evidence in the form of facts.

      You already pointed to the performance characteristics of the main Wehrmacht bombers, but you did not even understand why. Examine them, and then the characteristics of the main German fighter Messerschmitt Bf.109, you can then understand that the attack on Moscow could not occur on June 22 for objective reasons - the fighters could not accompany the bombers to Moscow, and they, in turn, even taking off from Finland , had little chance to go back from the fact that the maximum flight range of He-111, for example, is only 1500 km.
      If you can get all this in your head, which I strongly doubt, then you will understand why the Germans could not plan a raid on Moscow on June 22.

      Quote: aKtoR
      And I preyadno poke after both of you in a puddle, like shkodnyh puppies.

      And what prevented you from doing this right away - I specifically pointed out your nonsense that you are talking about the actions of Moscow’s air defense, and you only promise to show something there. Not funny, Madame Gritsatsueva ...
      1. aKtoR
        11 September 2018 04: 22
        +2
        Milchakov, where is the confirmation that German Me-109 fighters must cover long-range bombers? The answer for LTH German bombers to the range 1500 prnimayu. Do not want to add your answer? Few in the wiki looked, let the buddy something
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 11 September 2018 11: 27
          -9
          Quote: aKtoR
          Where is the confirmation that German Me-109 fighters must necessarily cover long-range bombers?

          Since Madame Gritsatsueva generally has no idea how air operations are planned against an enemy with a developed air defense system and fighter aircraft, I will not prove to her that which is obvious to military professionals, but simply give an excerpt from Isaev’s book:
          At the Lesische airfield, where the 127th fighter regiment of the 11th air division was based, a combat alert was announced at 3 hours 25 minutes on June 22. Already at 3 a.m. the duty unit of three aircraft rose into the air. On the phone from the post of VNOS reported that German bombers, accompanied by fighters, crossed the border. The remaining aircraft of the squadron on duty were immediately lifted into the air. The 127th regiment during the day of June 22 was not limited to covering its airfield.


          Source: http://statehistory.ru/books/Aleksey-Isaev_Neizvestnyy-1941--Ostanovlennyy-blitskrig/10
          Well, if you cannot stand to study the German governing documents, then turn to the Bundeswehr commentator - he hangs around here for a reason.
          1. VS
            VS 11 September 2018 15: 45
            -10
            Madame is sure that the Germans should have been able to bomb Moscow on June 22 WITHOUT escorting fighters - Moscow which was covered by high-altitude MiGs))) That the Junkers and Henkels stupidly could not return on their fuel supply - from which thread Suvalok to Moscow)))
          2. RuSFr
            RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 46
            +1
            I am here. If you call me the Bundeswehr, then I can also calmly call you a follower of Rezun or a residentist. If you are not lying, you were from the GRU, you were abroad, you are falsifying the history of the USSR-RF for pennies. Hello, counterfeiter-resilist Milchakov? A problem with your employer's new bookstore? Anti-advertising, do you understand li ????
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 11 September 2018 11: 31
          -8
          Quote: aKtoR
          Do not want to add your answer?

          There will be too much honor for you - do your own educational program.
          1. VS
            VS 11 September 2018 15: 49
            -9
            I think it would be possible to communicate with this ..... provided - SHE SHOWS HIS NAME and last name - so that the country knows its heroes - and does not hide like all the cutters behind a clique)))

            But after all, I immediately offered her to her FROM FIRST articles - let's throw off the NEW facts on the PRELIMINARY events - so ..... oh she didn’t look)))
            But alas - it’s easier for a lady to compose who thought there - according to the reports. NOT BY DECISIONS and EVENTS, but by reports that RU GL allegedly reported to Zhukov))))))
          2. RuSFr
            RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 47
            +2
            Don’t lie, Milchakov. Not a little honor, but to climb was too lazy to seek. and when they wrote you climbed for clever thoughts on the Internet. you are a liar.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 14 September 2018 19: 53
      -9
      Quote: aKtoR
      And I preyadno poke after both of you in a puddle, like shkodnyh puppies.

      Midnight is approaching, but Madame is still gone ...
  12. VS
    VS 10 September 2018 21: 36
    -10
    Quote: aKtoR
    I would like these falsifiers-rezunists

    and on what basis are you - anonymous madame on in the resurrectionists wrote that ?? With what fright or Budun these things occurred to you - call us rezunistami ??))
    1. aKtoR
      11 September 2018 04: 30
      +5
      Kozinkin will be more bewitching. I will answer your question why you and Milchakov are rezunists, although shy away from this name, like the devil from incense. Only when we analyze your fault with the air defense of Moscow. Confirm your words to the reader, liar-rezunishka. Or ready to flee when your deception is ready to go outside.
      Your first-grader's tricks are visible to everyone. Milchakov confirmed, but I did not. Madame will provide evidence and I will raise my horizons at the expense of others. It's your technique to take other people's ideas and complement nonsense.
      Come on, today I can still answer tomorrow evening
      Responsibly confirm your words that everyone knew that 22 June will not fly into Moscow because of the German aircraft. I understand that no document will be presented to readers (as you usually do)
      "... A dreamer, I called him.
      And he is no match for readers and historians ... "
      1. VS
        VS 11 September 2018 06: 52
        -9
        so from which budun did you record us in rezun? Because I BEFORE YOU identified in the rezuni - for your stupidity and lies?))) Because you and the rezuni ALWAYS - hide your names - and bear the blizzard that no one was waiting for the attack in the Kremlin and HOW you are rezoning you make up - who are you thought ??))

        Madame take it easy - no-one German planes on 22 June waited over Moscow - that's why you didn’t bother with bringing air defense. Staltn gave them the command - to be in high b..d and they were in high.
        YOU dare to say once - don’t fantasize who was thinking there and WATCH WHAT ORDERS went to the okrugs in the pre-war days and WHAT okrugs MUST do to them)))

        So - WHEN will you open your name to Madame, you are our rezinishka ??)) And how it is indecently obtained - you are by name and how do we call you - is another anonymous liar?)) Girlfriend of the possessed Mr. Probzdetsky ??))
        By the way - take a look at my videos on YouTube - it’s easier)))
        1. RuSFr
          RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 48
          +1
          both pervert the story for money, like women of easy virtue on the panel. For denyushki, you can also misinterpret mother-story. Yes, Kozinkin?
  13. nikvic46
    nikvic46 11 September 2018 08: 33
    +1
    It is better to hear witnesses and participants in the events of 1941 several times.
    aviation to Sevastopol on the first day of the war. "On the night of June 22 to 23 we were given the task of detecting
    spies, who used their pocket flashlights to illuminate the direction of the German planes' strike. All searchlights were destroyed in the first days of the war. "During Yezhov's time, Beria shot thousands of" spies "on denunciations. In the fall, Rychagov was shot. He was charged under the same article.
    After that, one thing was clear from the documents. In his reports on the strength of the aircraft, he gave the wish out as a valid position. But let me allow you. These documents went through Voroshilov. And here we come to
    the role of this person and the role of Stalin at the beginning of the war. said at the headquarters council speaks of his knowledge in military affairs. “We must start an offensive from the Black to the Baltic.” Stalin rejected this proposal only because the others present at this council reacted with indignation to it.
    I am not a supporter of the destruction of the images of heroes. But Voroshilov is a completely different case.
  14. aKtoR
    11 September 2018 11: 16
    0
    BC SCREAM stupidly in the TE days the Germans still could not get their air force


    Kozinkin, do you confirm your words? Stop bustling like a lady ...
  15. aKtoR
    11 September 2018 11: 21
    +5
    Quote: V.S.
    Madame take it easy - no-one German planes on 22 June waited over Moscow - that's why you didn’t bother with bringing air defense. Staltn gave them the command - to be in high b..d and they were in high.

    Since there are new statements of Kozinkin-Rezunist, then if you are not a chatterer, according to pzhl present the facts:
    1) that Stalin gave the order to bring the air defense of the capital to combat readiness.
    2) documentary evidence that waited for the war, but the raid on the capital could not be.
    Withdrawal towards a forum dispute is credited for a technical defeat. Give the facts. Every rezunist must be responsible for his words, if he is a man. But if your name is Olga in direct, then continue to flirt further ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 11 September 2018 14: 00
      -9
      Quote: aKtoR
      2) documentary evidence that waited for the war, but the raid on the capital could not be.

      Do not get hysterical, just sit in a puddle - you were told the TTX of German bombers, who even from Finland could not fly to Moscow and go back, and you all groan that you lack documents.
      You are not smart enough to understand that even then the military people were quite literate and pragmatic, that's why they planned to reflect the real dangers, and not those that arise in the stupid head of "historians" like you.
      1. RuSFr
        RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 49
        +1
        Milchakov, what kind of LTH did you give, dumbass? Well, what kind of thoughts were born in your stupid head? Could not look at specialized sites? you bummer, do not work out the money kozinyakina
  16. VS
    VS 11 September 2018 15: 52
    -10
    Quote: nikvic46
    Leverage in his reports on the strength of the aircraft, gave the desired wish for a real position. But let me. These documents went through Voroshilov. And here we come to
    the role of this person and the role of Stalin at the beginning of the howl

    People's Commissar WHO was in those days - from the summer of 40 - FOR THE YEAR until June 22 ?? Voroshilov then where does it already ??))
  17. VS
    VS 11 September 2018 15: 55
    -10
    Quote: aKtoR
    stupidly in those days the Germans still could not get their Air Force

    Kozinkin, do you confirm your words? Stop bustling like a lady ...


    definitely))) COULD NOT)) And your nonsense that type - WITHOUT a fighter the Germans would have flown - and therefore it was NECESSARY if they knew about the attack to LEAD apparently from May the air defense of Moscow to FULL bg. - and will remain delirious))
    SO WHEN will you name your surname - you are our great historian anonymous - WHAT IS THERE SO DANGERED ??))
  18. VS
    VS 11 September 2018 16: 03
    -10
    Quote: aKtoR
    Every resident should be responsible for his words, if he is a man



    and right now, with whom are you talking then ??))

    For you, my books are like a sickle in one place and they hate me more than Isaev)))
    So trying to call me a resident is an indicator of your mind))) and the lack of decency primitive - in my books or articles I NEVER wrote that the SSR-Stalin was going to attack FIRST and Hitler warned us in this attack that failed. So FOR SUCH your insults, you can be dragged to court)) You are hiding your name so hiding behind a dog-clicher clearly dog ​​??)) The actor is to sit !! The actor is lying)))
    I am SO like you a racket on the forums seen enough over the years of communication - CAN YOURSELF write down)) if you don’t have any)) only without a surname - your victory will be somehow strange - who are you - lady ??)) from which .. got out ??) )
    ............................
    Calm down - and they waited for the attack and adequate measures were taken and NOBODY at the level of the komokrugs BEFORE June 22 - on my own initiative did NOTHING - ONLY by orders of NGOs and General Staff ..) At first they were given ORAL commands and then written orders followed))
    Only Zakharov already at midnight on June 22 gave the command to open the packages and they didn’t obey him at the OdVO - they played the training alert there first and at 1.30 he gave the battle order - after the directive that you are stupidly and UNGRADUELY calling No. 1)))))
  19. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 12 September 2018 18: 04
    +2
    "The Bialystok brigade area was covered by the forces of the 4th air defense brigade. The brigade's actions to repel the first raids of fascist aviation were constrained by the order of the commander of the Western air defense zone, General S.S. Sazonov, according to which, in order to avoid provocations, it was prohibited to open fire on enemy aircraft until further notice. after 8 am on June 22, this order was canceled by the commander of the 10th army, Lieutenant General KD Golubev. " This and other evidence of entering the battle in the morning of 22.6.41. formations and units of air defense of border districts is terrifying. Bialystok was a key point in the defense of the key Western Front, in the main direction of the Wehrmacht's offensive to Minsk, Smolensk and further to Moscow. It housed the headquarters of the most powerful army of the front - the 10th, and the most powerful MK - the 6th. The following terrible picture emerges: at 1.30 the districts received Directive No. 1, at 2.00-2.30 military orders were received by the army, corps, divisions and brigades, which, on alarm, began to leave their places of permanent deployment in connection with a real threat of air raids (actually started at 4.00-4.30 ), and the air defense troops not only were raised on alert only "at five o'clock", but also before 10.00:XNUMX had an order "not to open fire on the attacking enemy aircraft" by the commander of the Western air defense zone, General SS Sazonov! that it was the air defense troops who had to join the battle in the first place! Why did this general give such an order or carry out a criminal order? Whose specifically?
    1. VS
      VS 13 September 2018 07: 19
      -11
      And after THIS, the ladies scream in ecstasy - the generals could not be traitors !!!)))

      I will say more at 2.30 Pavlov received a verbal order to open the package and duplicated it by 3 o'clock in his army, which at about 4 o'clock was backed up by a WRITTEN confirmation from the General Staff - "Red packages should be opened. No other measures should be taken until a special order."
      At 3 o’clock the KOVOs began to open their red packets, but then the commanders wrote to Pokrovsky - Kirpanos forbade return fire before lunch and prevented the troop entry - FORBIDDEN - in the battlefield. ..
      And - just not Bialystok, but BREST - this is a key point in the defense of the WHOLE border and just THERE TOTALLY ALL SAVED !! Pavlov at 3 o'clock instructs EVERYONE to open packages and Brest - SPIT.

      Madame does not understand the meaning of Brest - her problems)))
      1. ivamoss
        ivamoss 16 September 2018 07: 27
        +4
        Insolent liar! Chekunov has denied all your phrases!
        What impudent, boorish people! In order to get their grandmothers are ready to twist our story. Correctly wrote there are no facts, and if there are, then they are distorted. Rezun with these scribblers and did not stand nearby !!
        Insolent type of people from the early 90's
        1. VS
          VS 16 September 2018 08: 23
          -8
          And Chekunov wrote some book on the events of the pre-war days - where would he refute my books about the fact that the pre-war casting in ... was done according to the commands of the NGOs and the General Staff - Stalin? Share it?))
          1. ivamoss
            ivamoss 16 September 2018 08: 52
            +3
            As they say in this article: slippery dodgy, like a ruff.
            Do you mean that Chekunov did not publish his own books? Immediately pulled by the English smell from this answer.
            Hinting your books should be refuted?
            Is this literary trash? A lot of honor for a young lady without honor and a liar. Chekunov has no historical works yet. The author wrote somewhere that Sergei writes a series of books.
            And who wrote the most books on the falsification of our history: Rezun the traitor or Kozinkin with Milchakov?
            Replaced Rezun already or not?
            You have no conscience, huckster
            1. RuSFr
              RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 50
              +2
              Outdid. Over time, scoundrels become even more meaner. Just look at EU international politics
  20. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 12 September 2018 22: 09
    +1
    Quote: ccsr
    that military people were literate and pragmatic enough then, that's why they planned to reflect real dangers

    You know that in the Kremlin there is even a bunker (bomb shelter) on 22.6.41. did not have? Is it competent? All air defense in Moscow was only approx. 25 thousand shells for 85 mm anti-aircraft guns ... Based on 100 shells per 1 German bomber shot down at an altitude of more than 6000 m (the practice of fighting soon showed even less effectiveness) anti-aircraft artillery in Moscow could bring down no more than 250 pieces - this is right not to expect that there may be 500 or 1000? Is this pragmatic combat readiness? The Germans, in principle, could fly with an additional supply of gasoline, at a greater range than in the TTX. In any case, the country's air defense was very weak and unprepared for war.
    1. VS
      VS 13 September 2018 07: 21
      -10
      But this does NOT mean that the attack in the Kremlin was not expected, and under this expectation, the teams were not given
      How Madame Anonymous yells)))
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 13 September 2018 12: 23
      -9
      Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
      You know that in the Kremlin there is even a bunker (bomb shelter) on 22.6.41. did not have? Is it competent?

      There was a metro station near the Kremlin. So they did not intend to build a special bunker in the Kremlin, they built it in another place, realizing that the Kremlin will be the main goal. It’s strange that you don’t even know this, but undertake to criticize people of that time:
      Under the cover of the construction of the stadium, the construction of the Stalin bunker and the 17-kilometer underground road from the Kremlin was carried out.

      For the construction of this important facility was allocated land limited to:
      • From the south - Izmailovsky highway and the green zone of the Izmailovsky Park of Culture and Rest
      • From the north - Stromynsky highway
      • From the east was the village of Izmailovo, as well as ponds and Silver Island.
      • From the west - the district railway.

      It was planned that government stands would be built at the stadium and special premises would be placed under them - workrooms and a hall for receiving guests. An underground road was laid to deliver government officials from the center of the capital, the Kremlin.
      In 1939, when the construction of the underground part of the structure was completed, construction of the stadium was suspended. So the reserve command post of the Supreme Commander of the Red Army was built.
      The museum complex was opened after restoration in 1996.

      https://сталинбункер.рф/
      Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
      Moscow could bring down no more than 250 pieces - is it right not to expect that there could be 500 or 1000?

      In fact, gathering 1000 bombers is a big problem, even from the point of view of their cover. As far as it is known, in the mass raids on Moscow, the Germans used several hundred aircraft, and even then with heavy losses. By the way, where did you get the idea that our fighter aircraft should not have been involved in repelling raids?
      Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
      The Germans, in principle, could fly with an additional supply of gasoline, at a greater range than in the TTX.

      It all can - by reducing the bomb load. And what for then such a flight?
      Quote: Mikhail Zubkov
      In any case, the country's air defense was very weak and unprepared for war.

      No one claims that with a general technical backlog, our air defense should have been better than German. By the way, it would not hurt to recall the role of Tukhachevsky in this, if you really want to get to the bottom of the reasons. For historical objectivity, of course.
  21. ccsr
    ccsr 13 September 2018 12: 09
    -10
    Author:
    aKtoR writes:
    The first entry in the ZhBD concerns the order to deploy 80% of the parts of the body. The indicated number of air defense units to be lifted is close to the number given in Tyulenev's memoirs (75%), which Stalin allegedly called him. However, Stalin had already left the Kremlin for more than an hour. The author does not believe in such a sluggishness of transmitting Stalin’s orders ... Yes, and Tyulenev is resting at home at that time ... At the same time, combat alert is not announced to parts of the corps, deadlines are not set, documentation is not sent to the units. Everything is somehow sluggish ...

    Because Madame has poor knowledge of the full amount of information, what actually happened on June 21 in the People’s Commissariat of Defense, in order not to go into empty disputes with her, I quote an excerpt from Tyulenev’s memoirs:
    I.V. Tyulenev, “Through Three Wars”, Moscow: Military Publishing House, 1972 - http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/tulenev_iv/06.html.
    “... At noon Poskrebyshev called me from the Kremlin:
    - Comrade Stalin will speak with you ...
    In the receiver I heard a dull voice:
    - Comrade Tyulenev, what about the air defense of Moscow?
    I briefly reported to the head of government about the air defense measures taken today, June 21. In response, I heard:
    - Please note that the situation is turbulent, and you should bring the combat readiness of the Moscow air defense forces to seventy-five percent.
    As a result of this short conversation, I got the impression that Stalin received new, alarming information about Hitler's plans for Germany. I immediately gave the relevant orders to my Air Defense Assistant, Major General M.S. Hulk.
    In the evening, he was at the People's Commissar of Defense of the Marshal of the Soviet Union S.K. Timoshenko and Chief of the General Staff of the Army General G.K. Zhukov. From them I learned about new alarming symptoms of an impending war.

    Any competent person will understand that even before the Germans attack, Tyulenev gave orders to his air defense assistant, i.e. the Moscow Military District was already preparing for the development of any situation in the event of a German air raid on Moscow. This completely refutes the conclusion of the author of the article that supposedly everything was sluggish in the air defense of the Moscow Aviation Defense. Of course, one can relate differently to Tyulenev’s memoirs, but no one has so far documented his words.
    1. RuSFr
      RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 51
      +3
      You quote it again knowing that this is contrary to the journal of operations. Well, you are a liar Milchakov. What can’t you sell for a little money? and the honor is no longer an officer, or was not there before ???
  22. RuSFr
    RuSFr 13 September 2018 17: 38
    +5
    Quote: ccsr
    Any competent person will understand that even before the Germans attack, Tyulenev gave orders to his air defense assistant, i.e. the Moscow Military District was already preparing for the development of any situation in the event of a German air raid on Moscow. This completely refutes the conclusion of the author of the article that supposedly everything was sluggish in the air defense of the Moscow Aviation Defense. Of course, one can relate differently to Tyulenev’s memoirs, but no one until his words are not documented.


    Senile processes, they say, are irreversible. Is it difficult, Milchakov, to keep more than one thought in your head?
    So far no one has denied? And who confirmed them?
    You, older, read the syllables, it’s better to fit your head
    Count
    1) Tyulenev to Admiral Kuznetsov called the time not midday, as you quoted, but two in the afternoon
    2) the air defense corps commander was ordered not at noon or at three in the afternoon, when he left the headquarters, but about 18 hours. and not 75% of the troops, but only twenty! Let me explain to the old man: twenty and 75% differ by more than 3,5 times! Did you learn arithmetic at school, or have you already forgotten everything?
    Your friend Kozinkin, a warehouse official, wrote in comments that if there are no deadlines in orders, that means immediately. You didn’t criticize your friend for that. It turns out I agree with his opinion. Neither Tyulenev nor Zhuravlev indicate dates. do you think it should act immediately, and the units are in camps. Are you a military or couch expert?
    3) after 20.00 a new command arrives to withdraw 50% of the troops. Understand the older, this is not 75%. Lying Tyulenev, lying. Only at twenty twenty-second the command is received to withdraw 22% of the troops and only in the evening of June 80. Tyulenev mixed up with a hangover noon and midnight. And about this you dare to write that no one has denied his memoirs with documents?
    Are you a paid perjury, a liar or a senile?
    Give at least one fact that Tyulenev wrote the truth. Or convolutions on this left?
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 13 September 2018 19: 26
      -17
      Quote: RuSFr
      Senile processes are said to be irreversible

      Do not judge for yourself, the Bundeswehr silk-driver.
      Quote: RuSFr
      So far no one has denied? And who confirmed them?

      Study memoirs of other participants of those years - you will probably find confirmation. The author of the article referred to Tyulenev, so he had to use what he said. But you can lie that this was not - well, prove it.

      Quote: RuSFr
      2) the air defense corps commander was ordered not at noon or at three in the afternoon, when he left the headquarters, but about 18 hours. and not 75% of the troops, but only twenty! Let me explain to the old man: twenty and 75% differ by more than 3,5 times! Did you learn arithmetic at school, or have you already forgotten everything?

      How do you, verbiage, know WHAT directions and regarding whom Tyulenev gave Gromadin? Even if he gave them at 18 o’clock, this time was enough to carry out the necessary events, given the fact that after the flight of the border, the bombers still had to fly at least two hours to Moscow even from Finland.
      You had a deuce in mathematics school - that’s noticeable, that’s why it’s so cheaply bought into the lie of the author of an article about the possible bombing of Moscow on June 22.

      Quote: RuSFr
      Lying Tyulenev, lying.

      You are lying, the German provocateur, because you cannot forgive our people that we defeated Nazi Germany. So you’ll tell all your tales about the service in the NNA to someone else, a more naive person.
      Quote: RuSFr
      Are you a paid perjury, a liar or a senile?
      Give at least one fact that Tyulenev wrote the truth.

      First refute the words of Tyulenev, the propaganda of the Bundeswehr - I believe him more than you.
      1. RuSFr
        RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 53
        +2
        You also do not know what instructions Tyulenin gave. But with honest eyes, you're lying to everyone here. So write honestly, I think he gave the following instructions ...
        So that people know that the expert sofa Milchakov thinks so, but this does not mean that it was actually so
  23. VS
    VS 13 September 2018 18: 51
    -17
    Quote: ccsr
    It would not hurt to recall the role of Tukhachevsky in this, if you really want to get to the bottom of the reasons. For historical objectivity, of course

    I'm afraid you have touched a character for our author thinking that you can remain anonymous for a long time - SACRED !!!)))
  24. VS
    VS 13 September 2018 18: 54
    -12
    Quote: RuSFr
    Bring at least one fact that Tyulenev wrote the truth

    first try to REFUT the general)))
  25. aKtoR
    15 September 2018 17: 14
    +18
    In the comments to this part of the cycle, users Kozinkin and Milchakov showed their ignorance as full-fledged sofa experts. Before poking them in a puddle, the author decided to discuss these figures once. Who is it not interesting to scroll through and look for pictures in my comments below. Who agrees with the opinion of the author - minus their messages in this part. Who does not agree with the author - minus his messages and criticize ...

    In comments to different parts, two people quite often leave their answers: the literary figure-fiction writer Kozinkin (nickname V.S.. - Vasily) and his military consultant old Colonel Milchakov (nickname sssr). Kozinkin: “My good friend in Moscow and the "consultant" on books».

    These people almost never give facts, and if they do, they quote the same documents and citations. If you look closely, you can see that their verbose comments do not concern the subject matter. They act according to the principle: to write anything, if only more, but the facts are not important. Kozinkin - a former warehouse military official likes to classify himself as a military man, considers himself a genius. Often gives illiterate explanations.

    For example, to a question from the Predator user: “Where did you see the encryption ... on the TsAMO letterhead ?!"Kozinkin's answer followed:"Why on the form TsAMO? Lists - it can be anything. ”A literary figure does not even know that the CAMO logo was superimposed on the scan.

    To the question of the user Falcon5555: "Post VNOS equip communication ... Mother of God, but before these posts did not have communication?"Kozinkin's answer followed:"Stupid duplication - so that later they would not say clever men in the basement of the Check - you didn’t tell us that it is necessary to provide the ARBIA connection. ”The writer Kozinkin did not even understand what was going on, but wrote at the time that he had been working on the problem of the start of war for eight years. He does not know what uninterrupted and uninterrupted communication is!

    The author of the material was forced to answer the question: “The fact is that the communication of air-defense and defense posts with air defense units and formations, air force units to perform tasks in the interests of air defense, and the units of the National Air Defense Force of the NKVD should be carried out via the communications lines of the People's Commissariat of Communications. The Directive deals with the organization of uninterrupted or uninterrupted communications - laying somewhere of the army communication lines, somewhere carrying out the duty of the military at the communications centers of the NCC to provide the priority queue for negotiations to these air defense services... »
    1. aKtoR
      15 September 2018 17: 20
      +13
      Kozinkin. "For the ignorant and I will give, I explain - if in the order part there is NO specific term for execution, then this means - to EXECUTE - IMMEDIATELY!!! ”You have repeatedly met in the author’s materials the word“immediately". This is done specifically for the logger Kozinkin. Maybe he will raise his horizons when he sees that commanders of different ranks use the specified word for events that should be made immediately.

      Kozinkin. "If you read the complete answers of the divisional divisions in the collection “I am writing exclusively from memory”, then you will see - almost all the divisional divisions showed - they knew who was in front of them and how much».

      As usual, Kozinkin is deceiving and again does not provide the facts. We have dealt with you in the 17 part all the answers of the divisional commander of the specified two-volumethat dealt with the enemy forces in front of them (or intelligence). Only 24 responses from the spacecraft commanders (from the 72 respondents and excluding the deployed corps) indicate the presence or absence of the RM before the start of the war. In their answers, they did not say the phrase Kozinkin composed for them.

      It turns out that not all divisional commanders, but only about 33% of them, said something about the Republic of Moldova and the forces of the enemy. We reviewed all their answers. You have been shown that from 72 responses on 70, you can argue that intelligence data on the number of German divisions near our border were not reliable.

      Kozinkin: “The border guards gave reliable information ... They said the same to the author - only the border guards track that side - up to 400 km... "In the 14 part, you were shown that in the intelligence information of the NKVD border guards there was misinformation thrown by the Germans and on a scale larger than in the Republic of Uzbekistan RU GSH KA. For eight years, he could not even understand the data that the intelligence reported. To do this, you need to be able to analyze and painstakingly parse documents by date. Kozinkin and his expert are not capable of it ...

      To clarify one of the users that Kozinkin’s early articles contained incorrect information, he replied: “Articles are old stuff. They were written in a “quick hand” - then “run-in” went on them - in the form [discussion] on historical forums - and then the books came out - with corrections of errors if necessary."Ie Kozinkin wrote a clear lie (in other words, nonsense), and then, when discussing on forums, he stole the thoughts of other users into his books. Now he is smarter: trying to get information for the little books, forcing people to lay out what they found and what this figure does not know. Asked by user RusFr: "Bring at least one fact that Tyulenev wrote the truth"Followed Kozinkin's answer:"First try to DEFINE the general».
      1. aKtoR
        15 September 2018 17: 24
        +16
        Thus, Kozinkin, using in his books the statements of the commander of the Moscow Military District about the increase in air defense units at the OP, provides readers with unverified information. And at the same time, he claims that his version of events on the eve of the war the only true (also Martirosyan). The author’s question as to how he can confirm Zhukov’s words in his memoirs about the events of the evening of 22 June was answered: “And there is nothing more on this issue.... »

        Let's take a look at how Kozinkin S.C.Chekunov comments on certain statements currently possessing the most information about the period being described.

        S.L.Cekunov (replies from the forum site http://militera.borda.ru ):

        «Kozinkin, have you really published a “study”? The fact that from a distance for your signature is called the ravings of a sick imagination ... Why the "bad"? On the contrary, "good." Do business. Nothing personal. Publish "records of the fool"...

        Kozinkin writes: “If the divisional commander receives an order from the district, and those from the NKO and the General Staff that the division (s) is required to be withdrawn to the area provided for by the Cover Plan (in the UR), then the additional order of the General Staff to bring in b. these divisions are NOT REQUIRED in principle»

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “Slavin asserts that the order was at the same time - to bring in b. - not only for the Air Force, Air Defense and Fleets on TE 18 June days, but also for the troops - from the General Staff - as an addition to the withdrawal orders»

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “And 20 on June, the Okrug in the General Staff reported - the troops are in bg. [combat readiness] and are withdrawn or have already been withdrawn according to the RP [Cover Plans] are located in the districts according to the RP ...»

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “During the withdrawal of the PP, the divisional commander and so MUST bring his division to bg. stopping all sorts of exercises and work»

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “He [Zhukov] in 22 of an hour 21 of June gives the command to the districts - WAIT an important encryption - about the TRANSFER OF ALL troops, Air Force, Air Defense and fleets to the FULL bg. "

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “In an hour of 23-24, he and NKO calls to the districts and indicates that the order for the full bg will be fulfilled more quickly.»

        S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

        Kozinkin writes: “According to your General Staff officer, who, according to your General Staff, perplexed, the STO Duty Officer who can carry out orders ONLY directly to the General Staff — notify the districts as Zakharov described?»
        1. aKtoR
          15 September 2018 17: 28
          +13
          S.Chekunov: “In 1941, there was no“ operational officer on duty at the General Staff ”. There was a simple “duty officer” and his assistant ... The duty officer for the 22.06.41 General Staff was Colonel Vasilchenko. ”

          Kozinkin writes: "In 2 hours there is an alert-check and a refinement - - to report on the readiness to accept this encryption"

          S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

          Kozinkin writes: “In 24 hours go and the instructions — to quickly carry out an order — on an alarm and a full bg. And in 2.30 there is an order - open the package.»

          S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

          Kozinkin writes: “The software was entered into 2.30 - in an hour, but before that, it was necessary to raise stupidly according to the ALARM as required by the conductor. b.n. - in 2 hours and IT was at the moment. "

          S.Chekunov: Yeah, tell it to Major General Kokorev, who in the morning 7 tried to find out in the districts what happened to the PP ...

          Kozinkin writes: “BEFORE DIR. b.n. there were directives about the increased bg. - for the Air Force Air Force and the fleets to the heap .. and it was just June 18. And the army received orders - on b g without specifying the "degree"... »

          S.L.Cekunov: Lies.

          Kozinkin writes: “Two options are published.” [This is Directive No. XXUMX]

          S.L.Cekunov: I read unpublished.

          Kozinkin writes: “So is it my fault that the PP is like a full bg. Maple bricks through ... introduced? What claims to me then?»

          S.L.Cekunov: You liethat in 2.30 was the command to input the PP.

          Kozinkin writes: “Or will you assure that no one at NNO in 2.30 gave the PP command?”

          S.L.Cekunov: None of the NCOs gave such a command to 2.30 or later.

          Kozinkin writes: “For example, they themselves invented in the districts themselves and brought orders from the air defense air force, etc. - in bg enhanced alert number 2. "

          S.L.Cekunov: It was only in PribOVO. There is all correspondence on this issue. There is no 18.06 directive there. NOT.
          1. Ales
            Ales 16 September 2018 05: 58
            +5
            It was interesting to read Chekunov’s answers. It is a pity that the laconic ...........
            But an intelligent person says a lot
            1. VS
              VS 16 September 2018 08: 44
              -9
              Alas, Chekunov did not go further than TsAMO and SECRET SECRET materials and he will not be given anything more))
              Alas - Chekunov Batan - not a military man and stupidly does not understand many questions))

              He DOES NOT WRITE books or articles on the topic of PRELIMINARY EVENTS AND DOES NOT WRITE, AND IS NOT GOING to write - only the thread will blurt out on the miloitera and all types are OBLIGED to believe him and admire his type with knowledge and knowledge)))

              so when I refer to the words of THOSE who have been to the General Staff Archives on a service where Chekunov, etc. civilians will NEVER be allowed, then I refer to the opinion of SPECIALISTS and really knowledgeable people)))

              And according to THESE materials, there is quite a work - "1941 - lessons and conclusions" where there is no special on the pre-war days, but - THERE about the plans of the General Staff is detailed in detail)))
              1. RuSFr
                RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 54
                +1
                So you, face, were not even allowed to go there. Therefore, you carry all nonsense. or are you a lazy dog ​​and at home at a computer write fables for old-timers? Are you a pedophile by chance? Do you distribute your little books among the school girl? You ruin our shift .....
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 24
                  -6
                  Quote: RuSFr
                  You ruin our shift .....

                  Your change is the Hitler Youth, so we will not corrupt them, but destroy them when the time comes.
        2. VS
          VS 16 September 2018 08: 39
          -9
          Quote: aKtoR
          Kozinkin writes: “If the division commander receives an order from the okrug and those from NGOs and the General Staff about that - it is required to withdraw the divisions (s) to the area provided for by the Cover Plan (in the UR), then the additional order of the General Staff to be brought to the base station is these divisions are NOT REQUIRED in principle "

          S.L. Chekunov: A lie.

          WHOSE IS THIS WORDS ??))

          "" The commander of the border military districts was ordered to withdraw troops counties - assigned to cover troops, closer to the state border and those borders which they should have occupied in an emergency, by special order. At the same time, the advanced units were ordered to be advanced to the zone of border units. Other equally important events were held. All this obliged the commanders of the districts and armies to increase their combat readiness. ""

          Yulechka - I love boobies, batans and I will give that they consider themselves smarter than the military in military matters))
          What do you think - the person who wrote that when withdrawing by special order of the divisions according to Cover Plans that OBJECTS the divisors themselves to bring - without an additional order of the General Staff - these divisions in b ... d - BETTER whether you know the question or not ??))

          Someone "Slavin" is actually an ASSISTANT to the Chief of the General Staff at one time)))

          I'm afraid he knows better than Chekunov - WHAT IS - WHAT are the orders and directives of the NGOs and the General Staff for JUNE 41st in the ARCHIME of the General Staff - on Znamenka))
          I repeat for the poorly understood - not at TsAMO but at the GSh archive in Moscow)))

          Where Solonin even meddled but they didn’t let him go further than the doorway)) And Chekunov - the more they won’t let him go to THIS archive - where ALL outgoing GSh encryptions are stored and ALL RUGS intelligence reports are in the same place))

          And - before the commanders did NOT raise the question of what they knew or did not know about the enemy on June 22))
          Therefore, the answers of those who decided to mention it themselves do not say that the rest of which they did not know)))

          Yulia - you write a book faster - and I hope there will not be a dog-clicher, but a full name and surname - according to your stupid articles)))

          ZHDEMSS)) Yes, do not forget the lieutenant once again praise - as the innocent victims of Stalinism)))
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 15 September 2018 21: 48
        -9
        Quote: aKtoR
        To the user RusFr’s question: “Bring at least one fact that Tyulenev wrote the truth”, Kozinkin answered: “First try to REFUT the general”.

        And he wrote correctly, since some illiterate one claims that Tyulenev was writing a lie, he is obliged to present evidence that this is recorded in other sources and to prove his allegations about Tyulenev. Why on earth should I trust some amateur RusFr, not smelling gunpowder, and not a military general who went through the war?
        1. RuSFr
          RuSFr 16 September 2018 10: 56
          +2
          Right, killer whale. If the general does not lie, you should focus on him. otherwise there will be no dough. How to check something? You don’t need to. There is a time stamp - you can include in the book. just like in the yellow press without any checks or denials. Book swindlers one word
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 26
            -5
            Quote: RuSFr
            How to check something?

            So you, a swindler, refute, without even bothering to find at least one fact that raises doubts about the authenticity of the memoirs of a participant in the war? Well, you and the swagger ...
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 15 September 2018 21: 42
      -8
      Quote: aKtoR
      The literary figure does not even know that the TsAMO logo was superimposed on the scan.

      And here you have once again shown ignorance, because the TsAMO logo is superimposed on documents that are posted on the network, and TsAMO FORMS are used to compile office documents. So Kozinkin rightly admitted to the slip, and you, not knowing how the logo differs from the TsAMO form, once again showed that it was confused even in the terminology for designating documents.
      Quote: aKtoR
      He does not know what an uninterrupted and continuous connection is! ...... The author of the material was forced to answer the question: “The fact is that the connection between the air support posts and the air defense units and units, the air force units that will have to perform tasks in the air defense interests, by the NKVD air defense units should have been carried out through the communication lines of the People's Commissariat of Communications.

      Since your ideas about communications are too primitive, I only note that uninterrupted communications in the armed forces can be provided only by regular communications units, and not communications commissariat structures that are staffed by civilian personnel and which do not answer to unit commanders as their subordinates. You will never understand this, but as a fact, I can report that after the war it was decided to create YOUR own communication system in the People’s Commissariat of Defense, completely independent of the People’s Commissariat of Communications. So your slogans about uninterrupted and continuous communication testify to your inadequate assessment of what really was with the connection at that time.
      1. AsmyppoL
        AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 18
        +3
        What is it about the scan of the blank or the blank itself? The article cited scans of forms with logos. Why write about forms? Only a fool is not clear that the original can not be a logo. Cheating again?
        By communication, I found this in the answer of the 5 part. That is exactly what Kozinkin said. All your clever thoughts are set out after answering in order to whitewash a comrade by throwing mud at the author is fraud. Maybe you submit a link where Kozinkin explains these terms to the author's answer?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 16 September 2018 09: 44
          -7
          Quote: AsmyppoL
          What is the question about the form scan or the form itself?

          We are talking about the correct interpretation of terms for an accurate understanding of the thoughts expressed by the author.
          Quote: AsmyppoL
          By communication, I found this in the answer of the 5th part.

          Tell us exactly what you have found so that it is clear what is at stake.
          Quote: AsmyppoL
          Maybe you will provide a link where Kozinkin explains these terms before the author answers?

          Or maybe you yourself, without me, delve into what was discussed, asking the author of the article about this, so that there was no "Caruso's retelling"?
          1. RuSFr
            RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 00
            +2
            I recognize Milchakov. For a friend-employer mountain. It doesn't matter that Kozinkin blurted out. The main thing is that the user himself understands and does not follow here. Properly diverted to the side of the discussion.
            So, you hear the cutter, Kozinkin what wrote about the logo? First time I saw or something stupid blurted out? Do not be silent, write for people from the forum. Let your ravings and twists look. Show the goods face, so to speak. This is not about you transmission in the telly is: My Julie?
    3. Pas7
      Pas7 16 September 2018 06: 37
      +7
      Come on, aKtoR, click Maleshkin !!! It was more difficult for him in the war. more people support you. I don’t like to write anymore
      1. VS
        VS 16 September 2018 08: 56
        -8
        you didn’t read my books, but the anonymous lady seemed to excite you and her stupidity about the fact that the attack did not wait for you to suit ??))
        1. RuSFr
          RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 01
          +1
          Yes, a better lady than a blue fan. or wrong? And the kids turn you on, booby?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 31
            -4
            Quote: RuSFr
            And the kids turn you on, booby?

            Another queer drew - began to ask specific questions from his vocabulary ...
  26. aKtoR
    15 September 2018 17: 30
    +11
    Science fiction writer Kozinkin wrote: “Madam - I will reveal to you a terrible secret - German Air Force stupidly could not fly to Moscow in TE DAYS also in the Kremlin knew this quite».

    The author asked him: can he confirmthat the German bombers could not fly to Moscow 22 June? Kozinkin until the evening was looking for information on Wikipedia and replied: "Madame is sure that the Germans should and could have bombed Moscow on 22 June WITHOUT escort fighters - Moscow which was closed by high-altitude MiGs. Junkers and Henkels that stupidly could not return to their fuel supply - from any thread Suwalki to Moscow.»

    As usual, distortion of facts by Kozinkin to make a person laugh. But the author never wrote that the Germans should have bombed Moscow. A typical trick is to attribute your statement to another and refute it with humor. This compare scam ...

    The author claimed something different, that if they expected the start of the war in NGOs and in the General Staff at dawn on 22 June, parts of the Moscow air defense zone should have been alerted from 18 to 21 in June, and not after the bombing of our cities began. associations and air defense units.
    1. aKtoR
      15 September 2018 17: 32
      +12
      His military consultant Milchakov echoed his writer: “If the author bothered to study the Luftwaffe TTX bombers in the 1941 year (He-111, Ju-88, Do-17), he was surprised to learn that they practically could not organize the bombing of Moscow even from Finland... Therefore, it is not surprising that June 22 was not expected to bomb Moscow - sober calculation and no more. Apparently speculations about the actions of air defense in the Moscow region are used to once again distort the history of the Second World War, especially its initial period.»

      To Milchakov’s repeated question about his confidence that German long-range bombers could not fly to Moscow on June 22, he also disappeared for a day. Dug in the Internet and found nothing. Here is his repeated response: "You have already indicated the performance characteristics of the main bombers of the Wehrmacht, but you did not even understand why. Study them, and then the characteristics of the main German fighter Messerschmitt Bf.109, maybe then you will understand that 22 June could not have been raided by Moscow for objective reasons - fighters could not escort bombers to Moscow, and they [bombers] in turn, even taking off from the territory of Finland, had little chance of returning back from the fact that the maximum flight range of the He-111, for example, is only 1500 km.»

      Then he repeated: "Do not go into hysterics, once sat in a puddle - you were informed by the German bombers, which even from Finland could not fly to Moscow and go back»
      1. aKtoR
        15 September 2018 17: 33
        +12
        The usual method of blurring the answer to the question. After reading their comments, all statements by sofa experts, drawing their knowledge only in Wikipedia, can be reduced to three points:

        1) According to their flight performance, German bombers could not fly to Moscow and return.

        2) Long-range bombers during a raid on Moscow must necessarily be covered with Me-109 fighters, which had a smaller radius of action compared to bombers.

        3) The Kremlin knew that German planes could not fly to Moscow and, therefore, on the night of June 22 were not afraid of a raid.

        At the same time, as usual, not given no fact or document. This means that readers they should take their word for it? Is it possible to believe these people? Let's get a look. The author will answer questions in a convenient manner.

        We start by stating that the Kremlin was confident that there would be no raid at dawn on 22 June and, as our sofa experts stated in comments to other articles, the spacecraft management knew that the war would start at dawn on 22 June 1941. Since the author has over the past year reviewed several tens of thousands of documents and memoirs, he knows for sure that there is not a single document in the public domain confirming the words of Kozinkin and Milchakov.
        1. aKtoR
          15 September 2018 17: 35
          +13
          Therefore, they were asked a question with a request to confirm their statements. But they did not show the facts and left to answer. If there are no facts, then their statement unfounded. In other words, they announced their own version, not having any confirmation in any of the sources. This suggests that Kozinkin acts in the same way in his booklets. If anyone on the site considers Kozinkin's works to be truthful - write your opinion below, and the rest of the writers' followers - put a plus sign. Let's see: how much is the percentage of readers supported by Kozinkin.

          Now about the mandatory cover of long-range bombers fighters. Our couch experts should have read a lot about pilots who fought German bombers covered with fighters. But air raids near the front line are not night raids on cities located far from the front line.

          In response to a question to Milchakov, whether he confirms his words about the mandatory cover for long-range bombers, he replied: “At the airfield of Lesische, where the 127 th fighter regiment of the 11 Air Division was based, a combat alarm was announced on the 3 hour 25 minutes 22 June. Already in 3 hours 30 minutes, the duty link of three aircraft rose into the air. By telephone from the VNOS post, they reported that German bombers, accompanied by fighters, had crossed the border. Immediately the rest of the squadron's airplanes were flown into the air. The 127 th regiment during the day of June 22 was not limited to covering its own airfield.»
          1. aKtoR
            15 September 2018 17: 35
            +10
            It seems that the consultant is responsible for the type: what I have found is what I post. At the same time, he considers only his posted quote to be correct, and everything else is a lie. Hastily found something and I am sure that this is the only correct answer? Or just cheating? The truth is, there is a third option: an old sick person with all the problems with the head that are typical of such a person, who is worn with his “brilliant” idea ...

            True, there are other memories of Deputy Commander AP Proskurin from the same 127 th iap: “The pale, predawn sky over the field airfield Lesniche 22.6.41 suddenly cut a short arc of the rocket. Anxiety! The commander of 127-iap, Lieutenant Colonel A. V. Gordienko, who checked the posts at the aircraft stops, immediately went to the command post. The duty officer on the phone reported that a message had been received about the bombing of Grodno by German aircraft. After clarifying the cause of the alarm, Lieutenant Colonel L. V. Gordienko ordered the duty officer to fly to the area of ​​attack and find out the situation. One by one the aircraft, piloted by the pilots Lieutenant I.Ye. Komarov, junior lieutenants A.N. Danilin and K.M. Treshchev, in 3-30 went into reconnaissance flight ... 1 Squadron senior political officer A. S. Danilov... »
            1. aKtoR
              15 September 2018 17: 38
              +12
              The first three fighters went not to intercept, and to explore. And the first air battle occurred only at five o'clock - only with the reflection of the second raid of German aircraft. The author writes this to the fact that in the second hour the bombers had gone to Moscow and none of our fighters would have intercepted them: they would not have had time and it was dark enough for the fighters to operate.

              You already know that VNOS posts were not deployed, or rather, they were deployed around 4% in the border districts. In OrVO, HVO also NP VNOS did not turn around. In the Moscow zone of air defense - the same situation (this is confirmed by the relevant VBD). In the bands of the armies located at the border (except 29 about VNOS and PribOVO), only on four RP VNOS. Four NP in the territory occupied by the whole army. This means that it would be worthwhile for the German bomber to leave the border line of the RP near the border and further to Moscow there are no more posts.

              Bombers simply became invisible before hitting targets in the capital. If there is no NP VNOS, then the fighters cannot be guided to enemy bombers, and fighters themselves cannot be found in the night sky. You, of course, sofa experts will write about the radar and will not provide any supporting facts about their deployment ... As usual, Milchakov will tell a lot about history with the conclusion that he is one competent specialist ...

              And night bombers went to the goal alone. How can this not be known to people digging in documents for nine years? But they do not know ... If you remember, readers that the fighters of the Moscow air defense zone flew to the field airfields around Moscow only for 5-20, and anti-aircraft units began to move forward to the OP after 7-00, taking them only by the evening of June 22. On the night of 22 June spotlights are not deployed. Discover planes no one ...
              1. aKtoR
                15 September 2018 17: 39
                +10
                By the way, only on the day of June 23 th barrage balloons rise. If, according to our sofa experts Kozinkin and Milchakov, everyone in Moscow knows that German airplanes do not reach the capital, then why the hell are they raising into the air ?? Some of the balloons are blown off by the wind from the ropes and fly away, their plating is damaged, etc. Kozinkin in such cases uses the standard excuse: "What to take with these noncoms?" or "Ask about it... "and calls the name of someone to ask should ask the question. So, when they fix it in the corner with facts, he disclaims all responsibility for what is written in his books. Only he says this in correspondence, and his readers do not know about the use of knowingly unverified (false) information ...

                Were fighters needed to cover the bombers in the first raid? Many of our airfields bombed bombers without fighter cover and there is a lot of information about this in the studies of various authors.

                Also, when flying to Sevastopol (22.6.41), to Novorossiysk (22-26.6.41), to Leningrad (22.6.41), German fighter bombers did not cover themselves. Do our sofa experts do not know? In addition, the consultant Milchakov writes that long-range bombers must hide behind Me-109. And how bad is the Me-110 night fighter with a much longer range? He that does not know anything about night fighters ??

                In the first raid on Moscow in July, 1941 German bombers also do not hide behind their fighters.
                1. aKtoR
                  15 September 2018 17: 41
                  +13
                  Let's look at an excerpt from the report of 36 NSH of Colonel Orlov (the article “Bombardment of Zhuliany Airfield 22 of June 1941 of the Year”): “07-15 has raided, enemy 19 aircraft Henkel-111 in the direction of the airfield "Kiev". 2000 90-50 caliber fragmentation and high-explosive fragmentation bombs dropped from 100 meters. 4-I squadron 43-iap pursued the enemy, but could not catch up... »

                  During daylight hours, the German He-111 bombers bombed and left without casualties. For Kozinkin and Milchakov’s sofa experts, this should be a revelation.

                  By the way, at Novorossiysk, German 26.6.41 bombers also appeared in the morning 8-40 and were also not afraid that they would be intercepted by our air defense fighters during daylight hours.
                  Does anyone know the facts of the fighter bombing of our long-range bombers during a raid on Berlin in the 1941 year? And according to the sofa experts; so you can not fight ...

                  It turns out that the statements of Kozinkin and Milchakov’s sofa experts are again their own fiction not based on anything ??. Do they at least never use facts? Type two former military and everyone knows how it was before. But why do they use only Wikipedia data and do not even look for information on other specialized sites?

                  As you already know that the German aircraft approaching Sevastopol were found in 1-30. Consequently, they took off after about midnight. If there was an order, the German bombers could fly to 1-30 from airfields in Finland or on the Suwalki ledge and in 4-00 calmly strike at the unprotected our capital, and then return back. At our airfields near the western border chaos reigned and the loss of control around 6-00 ... 6-30.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 43
                    -11
                    Quote: aKtoR
                    As you already know, when approaching Sevastopol German planes were discovered at 1-30.

                    No need to cheap peredregov - it was about Moscow, and not about Sevastopol. With such a dodge, you once again showed that you were caught in a lie, and you do not know how to get out.
                    1. Ales
                      Ales 16 September 2018 05: 48
                      +4
                      You yourself easily distort and lie easily.
                      Are you allowed this by status ???
                      1. VS
                        VS 16 September 2018 09: 23
                        -8
                        We are talking about Moscow or Kiev and Grodno ??))
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 September 2018 09: 47
                        -7
                        Quote: Ales
                        You yourself easily distort and lie easily.

                        So who is lying when, in arguing for a possible raid on Moscow, he uses the appearance of German aircraft near Sevastopol as an argument? Do you have any idea how far these cities were from the border?
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 15 September 2018 23: 01
                  -9
                  Quote: aKtoR
                  By the way, only in the afternoon of June 23rd barrage balloons rise.

                  With the outbreak of the war, a plan to cover the capital with air defense forces came in full - what's so surprising?
                  Quote: aKtoR
                  In the first raid on Moscow in July, 1941 German bombers also do not hide behind their fighters.

                  Understand first where the front line was, and whether fighters could accompany the bombers to Moscow in the first raid. By the way, in August 1941, our planes bombed Berlin without fighter jets - this apparently does not surprise you.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 55
                -9
                Quote: aKtoR
                And at night the bombers went to the target alone.

                This is a lie - not a single German aircraft in June 1941 has flown to Moscow.
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 48
            -9
            Quote: aKtoR
            . But air raids near the front line are not night raids on cities located far from the front line.

            Your phenomenal ignorance no longer surprises me:
            "In the USSR, the first experiments on aircraft radio detection were carried out in 1934. Industrial production of the first radars adopted for service was launched in 1939. These stations (RUS-1) with continuous radiation, modulated by sound frequency, were arranged in a chain along a certain line and made it possible to detect an aircraft crossing this line. They were used on the Karelian Isthmus during the Soviet-Finnish War of 1939–40

            I will not tell you about sound-absorbing installations - you are still not in the subject.
            1. AsmyppoL
              AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 32
              +3
              Just like in the article. There will be a story and not a single fact from milchakov. Did you forget to bring the documents that the radar and sound traps were deployed before dawn 22.06.1941? Lead and I condemn the author for lying. And if you do not have the facts to write about history? Start then with King Guidon, as he organized the sound service of flying dragons in order to counter their sudden attack. Facts sir
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 11
                -6
                Quote: AsmyppoL
                Have you forgotten to bring documents that the radar and sound catchers were deployed before dawn 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX?

                Enlighten:
                By the beginning of the war, the Leningrad Radio Plant (meaning the plant named after the Comintern, - author's note) managed to release a total of 45 sets of RUS-1.
                ........
                By order of the people's commissar of defense of July 26, 1940, under the code RUS-2 radar were adopted by the air defense forces. In accordance with the decree of the Defense Committee under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, NII-20 was instructed to manufacture and hand over to the People's Commissariat of Defense 10 more sets of Redut radar (RUS-2). By June 10, 1941, all ten sets were delivered to the customer.

                These radars and became part of the air defense on the outskirts of Moscow.
                .
                Enemy aviation did not fulfill the task of leveling Moscow to the ground because airspace control was carried out by the RUS-2 radar deployed around Moscow. In particular, a radar station near the city of Mozhaisk detected a flight of more than 200 German bombers in a timely manner and transmitted information about them to direct fighters and target designation of anti-aircraft artillery. As a result of the skillful actions of the soldiers of the 1st Air Defense Corps and the 6th Fighter Aviation Corps, part of the fascist aviation was destroyed, and the rest, dropping bombs on the far approaches to the capital, withdrew. In the battle for Moscow in the air defense forces could only be domestic radar RUS-2. In this battle, the military units that carried out the combat use of the RUS-2 radar were radio plots of air surveillance, warning and communications (AEB). In the air defense system of Moscow, these radio platoons were included in the 337th separate radio battalion of VNOS according to the directive of the headquarters of the 1st air defense corps No. 1602 of March 26, 1941.

                By the beginning of the war, there were 9 early warning radars in the radio battalion, which occupied positions in the area of ​​the cities of Klin, Mozhaysk, Kaluga, Tula, Ryazan, Mytishchi, Vladimir, Yaroslavl, Kashin. Near Mozhaisk in the village of Kolychevo on June 14, 1941, a Radut-S radar was deployed, that is, the first experimental sample of the stationary single-antenna version of RUS-1C [2]. She was put on combat duty with combat crew led by commander Lieutenant G.P. Lazun.

                https://tech.wikireading.ru/2474
                Quote: AsmyppoL
                Bring and I condemn the author for a lie. And if you have no facts, why write about history?

                I am not interested in your further actions, although it will be possible to judge by your decency from them, but you can pretend that you did not read my answer.
                1. AsmyppoL
                  AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 11: 51
                  +2
                  Thank you for bringing this material. To whom did these units submit? These units were subordinate to the service of VNOS. When did the service of air-rapport of the Moscow air defense zone begin to unfold? Is there any one confirmation (in memoirs, documents) that the stations worked, and were not in positions in readiness №4 (when the duty is not carried) or №3. These facts are missing from your comment. There are no excerpts from the railway. Find at least something in the memoirs of Tyulenev, Zhuravlev and others. This will be proof. The fact that you led means that they were in points. But these points at the same time were their PPD.
                  Here, near Sevastopol, a part of the VNOS was deployed and the Locators were put into operation. Therefore, we will not speak about my decency - the data provided by you is not enough. look further
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 16 September 2018 12: 48
                    -5
                    Quote: AsmyppoL
                    Thank you for bringing this material. To whom did these units submit? These units were subordinate to the service. When did the airborne airborne service of the Moscow air defense zone begin to unfold?

                    Why are you asking this from me, and not from the author of the article, who undertook to discuss the actions of the air defense missile defense?
                    First, various amateurs accuse me of not believing what the author of the article writes, and when you bring facts to them, they also require additional data from me. Well, why on earth should I do this instead of you or instead of the author of the article, if I do not believe different laymen?
                    Quote: AsmyppoL
                    No excerpts from the ZhBD. Find at least something in the memoirs of Tyulenev, Zhuravlev and others.

                    For the sake of satisfying your curiosity? Didn’t you try to do your own hands and brains?
                    Quote: AsmyppoL
                    Here, near Sevastopol, a part of the airborne airborne navigation system was deployed and Latitude included in the work.

                    Why do you think that turning on the radar near Moscow (if they were not on duty even for training purposes) after the first German planes began to bomb our cities, require some incredible efforts and there will not be enough time if German planes fly to Moscow? Well, where did you get this - from personal experience of service in air defense or not getting up from the couch?
                    Quote: AsmyppoL
                    look further

                    You will order your wife how to cook borsch. True, I do not exclude her reaction to this, so tell us what she answered.
                    1. Romv
                      Romv 16 September 2018 13: 34
                      +2
                      Who brings the material, he is responsible for it. You brought the material interesting. Look now for the ending in the documents. Why should the author search and refute your words? You dispute the point of view about locators
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 September 2018 14: 04
                        -4
                        Quote: RomV
                        Why should the author search and refute your words? You dispute the point of view about locators

                        Because the author of the article does not understand well what he is writing, and his ideas about the actions of the air defense of the Moscow Military District on the eve of the war are a consequence of his incompetence. If you wanted to make a conclusion for yourself, you yourself would have found information by what air defense forces Moscow was covered and how they were preparing to repel. By the way, for the first time on July 14, the aim of the air bombing of Moscow was formulated: "
                        ... To strike a blow at the center of the Bolshevik resistance and to prevent the organized evacuation of the Russian government apparatus. "

                        What kind of raid on Moscow on June 22 can we talk about if the Germans themselves really assessed their capabilities and from their intelligence could get data on the air defense forces of the capital?
                        Study carefully:
                        Even before the war, all the forces and means of air defense of Moscow were combined into the Moscow air defense zone. Major General M.S. Hulk. Directly air defense of the city was carried out by the 1st Air Defense Corps (corps commander - Major General of Artillery D.A. Zhuravlev) and the 24th air division, subsequently reorganized into the 6th Aviation Corps (AK) (corps commander - Colonel I.D. Klimov).
                        The 6th AK included 29 fighter aviation regiments, which were armed with 602 aircraft.
                        The 1st corps included 10 medium-caliber anti-aircraft artillery regiments, 3 anti-aircraft machine-gun regiments, 4 anti-aircraft searchlight regiments, 2 barrage balloon regiments, 2 air observation, warning and communications regiments (AEBO), 337th separate airborne battalion VNOS and a number of other units.

                        https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2008/05/14/149270.html
                        Do you think the Germans had no idea about this?
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 41
          -9
          Quote: aKtoR
          Since the author looked at several tens of thousands of documents and memoirs over the past year, he knows for sure that there is not a single document in the public domain confirming the words of Kozinkin and Milchakov.

          The trouble is that you just looked at them, but could not understand what is written in them, which is why your restless fantasies are too far from reality.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 38
        -9
        Quote: aKtoR
        To Milchakov’s repeated question about his confidence that German long-range bombers could not reach Moscow on June 22, he also disappeared for a day. Buried in the Internet and did not find anything.

        Do not grind rubbish - in order to refute your stupidities you don’t have to dig a lot, you just need to understand how it all happens in reality, and not smack rubbish about mythical hanging tanks and sending several aircraft against a country that has a developed air defense system.
        Because of your stupidity, you still didn’t understand that the flight range during marine air operations is not comparable with the range for land bombing because it is impossible to organize a dense air defense system at sea, but it can be built in the country several echelons that bombers cannot overcome without heavy losses. However, you are so illiterate in these matters, which is why you are nonsense about how German torpedo bombers could bombard Moscow on June 22.
        1. AsmyppoL
          AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 58
          +3
          I also see nonsense only in your answer.
          Aircraft are not called torpedo bombs. They are called bombers and not sea. The Germans used them, for example, in the Middle East for ground targets, and our intelligence should have known that. Or do you have facts confirming that the Germans were not going to strike at Moscow and in Moscow knew this from such and such a source. Facts, sir, otherwise everyone sees in you a writer-cheater
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 18
            -6
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            Aircraft are not called torpedo bombers. They are called bombers and not marine.

            You think so. And other, more knowledgeable authors, specifically distinguish them from other planes of the second world war, and write about this site in:
            IL-4T - torpedo bomber, created in OKB S.V. Ilyushin based on the IL-4 long-range bomber (DB-3F). In the USSR Navy Aviation, IL-4 aircraft were used as bombers, long-range reconnaissance aircraft, minelayers, and also as high-altitude and low-altitude torpedo bombers.

            Possessing a long range and relatively high cruising flight speed for that time, the reconnaissance aircraft IL-4 in a short time examined significant areas of the sea surface and immediately informed the commanders about the situation in the specified areas and the targets found, called for their destruction bombers or torpedo bombers, attacked themselves most important goals. Torpedo variants of the Il-4 aircraft were armed, as a rule, with one torpedo, but some experienced pilots doubled the combat capabilities of their Il-4T aircraft, flying combat missions with two torpedoes on board.

            https://topwar.ru/4509-torpedonoscy-il-4t.html
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            Or do you have facts confirming that the Germans were not going to strike at Moscow and in Moscow they knew this from such and such a source.

            There is one fact - there was not a single raid on Moscow in June 1941. Fight with windmills and more - success to you ...
            1. Romv
              Romv 16 September 2018 13: 37
              +2
              Germans bombed Moscow on IL-4T? Or should ours bomb Berlin? You can clearly write.
              I suspect you are responding to the remark about the German torpedo bombers. Then why don't you write about German planes? If there is a direct analogy, then give a link to the article where it is written about. Gather your thoughts and reread before posting on the forum. I must not guess your charades
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 16 September 2018 14: 08
                -5
                Quote: RomV
                Germans bombed Moscow on IL-4T?

                The author of the article fantasized this, deciding that since the range of the German torpedo bombers allows them to reach Moscow, the Germans will definitely use them in the first raid. Although who knows military affairs, he immediately realized that such enchanting stupidity can only be promoted by illiterate people. Our IL-4T has nothing to do with it, just some smart guy began to object to the term "torpedo bomber", although it is used in various documents of that time.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 15 September 2018 21: 59
      -9
      Quote: aKtoR
      The author specified from him: can he confirm that the German bombers could not reach Moscow on June 22?

      You were pointed out several times to the performance characteristics of German bombers, and you again "turned on the fool." What else do you need to confirm if you cannot even understand this?
      1. AsmyppoL
        AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 05: 00
        +3
        I also did not understand your withdrawal to the side. This is similar to fraud or senile disease, when you cannot connect with THREE TIMES YOUR THOUGHT, WHICH YOU CAN EXACTLY EXACTLY
  27. aKtoR
    15 September 2018 17: 44
    +15
    Before considering the LTH of German bombers, we will specify some distances. Distance from airfields in Finland (at Helsinki) to Moscow ~ 900 km. Distances from the airfields in the Suvalki ledge to Moscow ~ 950 km. The distance to Novorossiysk from airfields in Bulgaria or Romania with a bypass of the Crimea peninsula (the Germans knew about the presence of locators in the air defense system of the Crimea) ~ 880 km, and when flying from airfields in Romania through the Kherson region and the Sea of ​​Azov ~ 800 km.

    In the first days of the war, German bombers flew and returned to a distance of 800-880 km. Couch experts can say that they were reconnaissance aircraft with increased fuel and no bombs.

    Journal of MOPO (Novorossiysk): "24.06.41 ... in 21-52 the air-raid sirens sounded again. In the sky in the South-East from the Azov Sea appeared 8 – 10 bombers»

    Scouts do not fly in groups on 8-10 planes, but so do bombers.

    And how did they fly, if in the opinion of Kozinkin and Milchakov’s sofa experts this could not be ????

    Everything is quite simple. In the German aircraft used discharged fuel tanks volume 300 and 900 liters. Both Me-109 (300 l), Me-110 (2 in 300 or 900 liters), and Yu-88 (two in 900 l), and Xe-111 (two in 300 or 900 l ). This fake experts do not know because it is not written in Wikipedia on bomber, called them in their comments.



    1. aKtoR
      15 September 2018 17: 48
      +14
      But that's not all. According to the information provided on the specialized sites, it is clear that 217's year before-1940 had a range (at altitude) of about 3000 km with 1000 kg bombs. Experts will immediately scream: no one will fly to Moscow with such a small number of bombs. But in the first flights, many IL-4 with 10-twe in the bomb bay flew ...

      Yu-88 with two tanks of 900-liters had a range of more than 2200 km. Agree that the distance to Moscow and theoretically enough to go back to him with a navigation reserve. There are cases when a reception was used for the U-88: a tank for 900 liters was hung under the plane (to increase the range), and a large-caliber bombshell was suspended instead of the second tank. The same method is sometimes used for Xe-111.

      Since the beginning of 1940, the He-111H4 bomber has been produced, which had a range of 2600 km with a bomb load 1500 kg. With an additional tank installed in the front bomb bay and two 300-liter drop-down tanks, it could fly to 3000 km with 1000 kg bombs on the outside of the suspension.

      From June 1940 to April 1941, the bomber Xe-111H5 is produced with a range 3000-3100 km and bomb load 500 kg. True, it was used on the seas, but where is the intelligence data that it should not have been used during raids on targets located in the depths of our territory?

      In addition, the Germans were long-range bombers Foke-Wulf-200. Special message: "... Focke-Wulf" Courier "multi-engined bomber was put into service in 1940 ..."
      Special message: “... Focke-Wulf“ Courier ”multi-engined bombers have a range of up to 4000 km with a bomb load of up to 3500 kg. Data requires confirmation ... "
      Analytical note: "... The technical characteristics of German bombers make it possible to reach the capital of the Soviet Union - the city of Moscow ..."

      The Germans were confident of their victory in three months and did not see the goal of striking at Moscow, because They needed Stalin in order to conclude a treaty with anyone after the defeat of the USSR ... But the military-political leadership did not know this 21-22 June 1941 of the year ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 15
        -8
        Quote: aKtoR
        But that's not all. According to information published on specialized sites, it is clear that the Do-217 of the 1940 release had a flight range (at altitude) of about 3000 km with 1000 kg of bombs. Experts immediately scream:

        There is no need to yell, you just need to carefully study what the experts write:
        As carriers of the planning radio-controlled shells, the Do-217 has established itself as a hunter for large surface targets - it was the connections of these aircraft that sank the Italian battleship Roma and damaged the Littorio, and also seriously annoyed the Anglo-American landing ships when they landed in Italy . However, without air supremacy or powerful fighter escort, the Do-217 were virtually defenseless and suffered huge losses. This is precisely what caused the rejection of their use in “linear bombing,” almost from the very beginning of entry into the army.

        Madame apparently does not understand well the meaning of "This is what caused abandonment of their use in "linear bombing", almost from the very beginning of entry into the army"and therefore screams that DO-217 could fly over the territory of the USSR from Finland without fighters.
        1. AsmyppoL
          AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 05: 10
          +3
          The author does not write that before-217 could fly DONE over the territory of the USSR without the cover of fighters. Again you make fun of YOUR STATEMENT. So do the scammers. The publication discusses the possibility of night flights of German bombers and returning them back to the period of blocking Soviet aircraft in the morning at the airfields. Kiev Germans in the morning after the start of the war by bombers without fighter jets. Facts, sir, FACTS
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 21
            -7
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            The author does not write that before-217 could fly DAY over the territory of the USSR without covering fighters. Again you make fun of YOUR SPEECH. This is what scammers do. The publication considers the possibility of night flights of German bombers and their return back during the blocking period of Soviet aircraft in the morning at airfields.

            For radar stations and sound pickup stations this does not play a fundamental role. Only complete ignoramuses do not know about this.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 30
        -8
        Quote: aKtoR
        Since the beginning of 1940, the Xe-111N4 bomber has been manufactured, which had a range of up to 2600 km with a bomb load of 1500 kg. With an additional tank installed in the front bomb bay and two 300-liter suspended drop tanks, he could fly up to 3000 km with 1000 kg of bombs on the outside.

        Again a cheap distortion, because the Xe-111N4 had a completely different purpose and few were produced:

        The main difference between the He-111N-4 was the dorsal mounts for a pair of torpedoes LT F5b. The He-111N-5, almost identical to the N-4, could also lift two torpedoes. But additional gas tanks were installed in his bomb bay, and the bomb load was suspended from the outside.
        1. AsmyppoL
          AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 05: 18
          +5
          I see that after the kick in the ass you can even search for materials on sites other than the wiki.
          Find at least one word about what you knew before publication. You wrote three times about the impossibility to fly to Moscow and back. It is evident that such a possibility existed. Or do you have the facts, sir, that our intelligence confirmed your statement that he-111n4 (н5) are intended only for strikes against surface targets or that it is strictly forbidden to use on land targets or as night bombers. Feel free to quote the facts.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 25
            -6
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            It can be seen that such an opportunity existed.

            Apparently amateurs do not understand how the theoretical possibility differs from the real plan of an air operation to bombard an object of national importance, well protected by air defense forces. But you can continue to fantasize, since the paper will endure everything, and amateurs will perceive your "revelations" as worthy of attention.
      3. Pas7
        Pas7 16 September 2018 06: 33
        +6
        Ignore the wicked comments of book dealers. Better publish the parts faster. Write in more detail about intelligence and the note. went to a forum on militia and read the statements of Sergei St - Chekunov. Interesting, but not enough. and there it’s worth not even wanting to read such swearing. Come on author, publish, and just do not look at the comments
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 15 September 2018 22: 08
      -11
      Quote: aKtoR
      In the first days of the war, German bombers flew and returned to a distance of 800-880 km. Couch experts can say that they were reconnaissance aircraft with increased fuel and no bombs.

      And in the air force of the spacecraft used bombers to conduct reconnaissance, using additional tanks instead of the bomb load. But reconnaissance aircraft did not bombard the enemy.
      Quote: aKtoR
      Everything is quite simple. In the German aircraft used discharged fuel tanks volume 300 and 900 liters. Both Me-109 (300 l), Me-110 (2 in 300 or 900 liters), and Yu-88 (two in 900 l), and Xe-111 (two in 300 or 900 l ). This fake experts do not know because it is not written in Wikipedia on bomber, called them in their comments.

      Only a brainless person would think of organizing a bombardment with additional fuel tanks well-defended by the air defense forces of a large city, while at the same time risking losing expensive aircraft and at the same time causing minimal damage at best, and at worst not bombing at all and not returning to his airfield. But Madame loves to dream - the flag in her hands ...
  28. AsmyppoL
    AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 03
    +3
    Quote: ccsr
    Our planes in August, 1941, bombed Berlin without fighters - this apparently does not surprise you.

    We bombed Berlin later, when the front line moved away.
    Does this surprise you? Not? So what's your comment?
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 31
      -6
      Quote: AsmyppoL
      We bombed Berlin later, when the front line moved away.
      Does this surprise you? Not? So what's your comment?

      Moreover, our small-scale bombing was carried out as a response to the Moscow bombing and looked more like an act of retaliation than a well-calculated operation to inflict serious damage on the enemy. The Germans, however, approached the bombing of Moscow from different positions, and when they were able to organize mass raids, they immediately started them, given the defense of Moscow by air defense forces.
  29. AsmyppoL
    AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 10
    +4
    Quote: ccsr
    No need to cheap peredregov - it was about Moscow, and not about Sevastopol. With such a dodge, you once again showed that you were caught in a lie, and you do not know how to get out.

    Like the other way around. I also saw your techniques for distorting the meaning. You have forgotten how to read or understand the meaning of the text or arrogant people. The author reviewed in the message different directions, Sevastopol is one of them. I understand that this is shown to show that German bombers could, in principle, take off after midnight and earlier, like June 22, and the entire war if necessary
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 12: 56
      -4
      Quote: AsmyppoL
      You either forgot how to read to understand the meaning of the text or an impudent person. The author considered various directions in the communication; Sevastopol is one of them.

      You yourself are a cheap thimble, who decided that if you stick Sevastopol to Moscow, then the author’s lie will become more convincing.
  30. AsmyppoL
    AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 04: 26
    +3
    Quote: ccsr
    This is a lie - not a single German aircraft in June 1941 has flown to Moscow.

    I have not found where the author wrote about this. So that you are not called a swindler, write: "I think that the author means flights of single planes to Moscow. If so, then the author is lying."
    There is a phrase about flying bomber at night to the target. All war and flew? If you have facts, bring them
  31. AsmyppoL
    AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 05: 36
    +7
    Quote: ccsr
    Only a brainless person would think of organizing a bombardment with additional fuel tanks well-defended by the air defense forces of a large city, while at the same time risking losing expensive aircraft and at the same time causing minimal damage at best, and at worst not bombing at all and not returning to his airfield. But Madame loves to dream - the flag in her hands ...

    Or such a thought comes to mind a fraudster or a sick person, since Moscow at dawn 22 June did not have almost anti-aircraft and fighter cover. I see more like You deliberately distort the material.
    Suspended tanks are the same consumable as bombs.
    It is more dangerous to bomb our airfields near the border with bombers without fighter cover than to fly at night to an unprotected target and return back. You accompany your statements with the words "I think".
    You deliberately distort the material, without citing facts other than your own notions. So do the thieves, caught red-handed.
    Scammer, you sir, swindler
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 38
      -6
      Quote: AsmyppoL
      Bombing our airfields near the border with bombers without fighter cover is more dangerous than flying at night to an unprotected target and returning back.

      Who told you that Moscow was not defended in June 1941? Or are you ready to lie according to the principle "Emelya stranded, your week ..."
      By the way, how in the border districts could determine where the bomber will fly after crossing the border, and why the district air defense forces should not have destroyed these targets in their area of ​​responsibility? Are you even out of your mind putting forward your fantasies for discussion?
    2. AsmyppoL
      AsmyppoL 16 September 2018 15: 33
      +2
      Found an interesting fact that 22 Jun is a crew from the strategic reconnaissance aviation group Auf. Kl.Gr.Ob.dL from a height of 10 000 m took the first photographs of the Soviet capital. The flight was not recorded by the Air Defense Forces.
      Only about a month later in a downed German
      the bomber found a photoplate made on the basis of these images with the date and time of the photographic photograph.
      This partly confirms the ineffective work of 22.06.41 air defense.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 16 September 2018 20: 24
        -5
        Quote: AsmyppoL
        Only about a month later in a downed German
        the bomber found a photoplate made on the basis of these images with the date and time of the photographic photograph.
        This partly confirms the ineffective work of 22.06.41 air defense.

        Complete nonsense - a photographic plate could be made on the basis of flight flights to Moscow of German civilian aircraft in the spring and summer of 1941, on which Luftwaffe reconnaissance officers flew as crews. Their height was less, which is why they could use equipment with lower resolution, and at the same time receive high-quality photographs.
        However, since you did not provide a link to the information, I suspect that this is another stuffing that has not been documented.
        Quote: AsmyppoL
        This partly confirms the ineffective work of 22.06.41 air defense.

        This does not confirm anything at all, because until June 22 there was a ban on the downing of German aircraft even in border districts, and the first information about crossing the border came to the air defense air defense system after the outbreak of war.
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 21: 32
      -4
      Quote: AsmyppoL
      Suspended tanks are the same consumable as bombs.
      It is more dangerous to bomb our airfields near the border with bombers without fighter cover than to fly at night to an unprotected target and return back. You accompany your statements with the words "I think".
      You deliberately distort the material, without citing facts other than your own notions. So do the thieves, caught red-handed.
      Scammer, you sir, swindler

      And you are an ordinary layman in military affairs, because it would only occur to a fool to plan a raid on a city well protected by air defense forces, while having incomplete loading and the lack of cover by fighters, and with a limited number of aircraft, because not all pilots were prepared for such flights.
      And about the fact that the primary task for bombers is the destruction of the military troops of the enemy, I do not even say - you have not yet grown to understand this. So do myth-making, another forum amateur ...
  32. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 08: 52
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    Kozinkin writes: “And on June 20, the districts reported to the General Staff - the troops were given in g. [combat readiness] and are being withdrawn or have already been withdrawn by software [Cover Plans] are located in areas by software ... "

    S.L. Chekunov: A lie.

    Kozinkin writes: “In the case of withdrawal by software, the divisional commander is OBLIGATED to bring his division to bg. stopping all studies and work

    S.L. Chekunov: A lie.

    Kozinkin writes: “He [Zhukov] at 22:21 on June XNUMX gives the command to the districts - WAIT for an important encryption - about the TRANSFER of ALL troops, air forces, air defense and fleets to FULL bg.”

    S.L. Chekunov: A lie.

    Kozinkin writes: “At 23-24 hours, he and the NPO call the districts and indicate - faster, follow the order for full bg

    S.L. Chekunov: A lie.

    Kozinkin writes: “Who did you think puzzled the OPERATIVE duty officer on the General Staff who can carry out orders ONLY directly to the General Staff - to notify the district as Zakharov described it?”


    1st - June 20, the constituencies actually reported on the work done - that they are ready to fight)))

    Upon receipt of the order in the army, the subordinate is generally obliged to report)) And these reports do not lie in TsAMO where Chekunov grazes and in Moscow x- in the GSh archive)))

    2-- and owe it to YOURSELF and there was an order to them - see Abramidze's answer)))

    3rd - Zhukov really gave a command to the operative on the General Staff at 22 o’clock - to notify the district that they would be waiting for an important encryption .. Otherwise, the operational could not have informed Cherevichenko about this)))

    4th - both NPOs and Zhukov CALLED in the district at midnight - see the memoirs of the Marshal and REFUTE THEM if you can yulechka - for that matter)))

    Alas - Chekunov's cries in one word WITHOUT presenting confirmation of his words - do you accept mine with reference to FACTS - NO ??))

    And - Yulechka, why didn’t you bring the batan’s words to YOUR address - about YOUR delusional writings - that they didn’t wait for the attack and didn’t take any measures, but if someone did something contrary to Moscow and Stalin ??)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 05
      +3
      No need to write a lot of text. No need to take the discussion aside. Give the facts on point one, on point two, on point three and on point four.
      When did JV Stalin give the order to transfer the Northern Fleet to readiness 2? The facts that this is done by order from the center. Your opinion is not interested. Facts
      Bring the facts of the translation of the air defense of the four districts also on alert 2. Facts, not your opinion
      Give the facts of the withdrawal from the camps of all air defense units from four districts, except for the Baltic. At least mention in the orders of this. Facts, not your desire to take something for reality
      If there are no facts, then shut up. Your rudeness and arrogance to lie and so it is visible
  33. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 08: 57
    -7
    Quote: aKtoR
    the author never wrote that the Germans were supposed to bomb Moscow.

    Well, to hell with tady, demand from Stalin that he would bring Moscow air defense on June 21 to super complete bg. ??)))

    You cheat yulechka))) they didn’t say anything for detski)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 16
      +2
      Lying again, no one from I.V. Stalin demanded this

      Facts
  34. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 04
    -8
    Quote: AsmyppoL
    exist flight at night towards an unprotected target

    but the type of Moscow unprotected GOAL was in June ??)

    And - if you suspend consumables in the form of additional fuel tanks, you stupidly AT THIS weight you won’t take BOMBS)))

    And for the sake of the mythical single-handedly improbable flights of German planes, Stalin MUST have been able to raise air defense on the ears already on June 21 ??)))

    for these loners, even if COMPLETELY ENOUGH the increased bg will appear in Moscow's air defense - 75% readiness)))

    YOU know WHAT is the difference between the increased air defense system and the Full one ??)) I will tell you - the number of aircraft on alert are the same))) In full, ALL air defense aircraft will have pilots in the cockpits, and with an increased air defense - only "75%"))) Also also applies to anti-aircraft guns - for singles that may not arrive on June 22 - there will be enough of those battles that already have positions around Moscow))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 14
      +3
      The city is not covered by anti-aircraft artillery, which does not have deployed searchlights, sound catchers, balloons, locators and airspace monitoring stations is an defenseless target. Fighters at night are not able to detect enemy bombers. Stop writing your false fabrications without telling the facts.
      You are not in the warehouse here to take aback
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 16 September 2018 13: 00
        -5
        Quote: ivamoss
        You are not in the warehouse here to take aback

        Are you here to brazenly lie that there were no combat-ready air defense forces around Moscow, and therefore the Germans could calmly plan an attack on the capital on the first day of the war, I hope to cause serious damage to our country without loss?
  35. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 06
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    The author claimed something else that if they expected the outbreak of war in the NPO and the General Staff at dawn on June 22, then parts of the Moscow air defense zone were to be put on alert from June 18 to 21, and not after the bombing of our cities began.

    Moscow Air Defense did not need to be brought to FULL Bg. in those days - on June 21st, the Germans didn’t reach those days, escho to Moscow in order to BOMB whom they wouldn’t meet - 75% of those who had been there already since June 21st)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 09
      +5
      Where are the facts that On June 1941, 75, XNUMX% of the air defense units were in positions?
      Without facts, this is another lie.
  36. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 08
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    Then he repeated: “Do not get hysterical, just sit in a puddle - they told you the performance characteristics of German bombers, who even from Finland could not reach Moscow and go back”

    and you somehow refuted HIS words about these performance characteristics and that German planes did not wait for Moscow for THESE reasons, and therefore there was NO NEED to be brought to the utmost b..g Moscow air defense ??)))
  37. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 12
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    The Kremlin knew that German planes could not fly to Moscow and therefore were not afraid of a raid on the night of June 22.

    Moreover, as usual, not a single fact or document is given. Does this mean that readers should take their word for it? Is it possible to believe these people? Let's get a look. The author will answer questions in a convenient manner.

    We start by stating that the Kremlin was confident that there would be no raid at dawn on 22 June and, as our sofa experts stated in comments to other articles, the spacecraft management knew that the war would start at dawn on 22 June 1941. Since the author has over the past year reviewed several tens of thousands of documents and memoirs, he knows for sure that there is not a single document in the public domain confirming the words of Kozinkin and Milchakov.

    ah yay yay))) Yulia’s demagoguery turned on)) TTX study the girl of the German FRONT bombers - could they fly and was there a THREAT from such a flight so as to bring air defense on June 21 ??))

    I hope the anonymous little girl knows that the Germans, in principle, HAD NO long-range aviation, unlike us ??)) And then ours had to fly to the LIMIT to Berlin from the Baltic in the end)))
    And these raids were more a pyracia in the early days)))
  38. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 16
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    This suggests that Kozinkin acts in the same way in his booklets. If anyone on the site considers Kozinkin's works to be truthful - write your opinion below, and the rest of the writers' followers - put a plus sign. Let's see: how much is the percentage of readers supported by Kozinkin.

    from those who ITALY MY BOOKS ?? AFRAID you will blow yulechka - with shame))))

    Alas -% of those who have not read but will be clever - I do not care)))

    And if you remember, I offered YOUR help from the FIRST of your articles - I was ready to share NEW data, including on the topic where you climbed, I don’t think the girl’s head)))
    You REFUSED in the conceit that you already know everything, because you read THOUSAND by the dock and memoirs, and when you licked it up, you got up in a pose - you don’t want to admit your stupidity, oh, how I don’t want to ??))))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 10: 15
      +2
      Olya, you need to be a schoolboy who does not know who to believe in life in order to read about falsified historical events.
      Olya, it seems you are exhausted and nothing but a rambling girl's idiot talk, I can’t wait for anything from you
      Less all the nonsense
  39. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 17
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    there are other recollections of the deputy commander A.P. Proskurin from the same 127th IAP: “The pale pre-dawn sky above the field airfield Leshishche on 22.6.41 was unexpectedly cut by a short arc of a rocket. Anxiety! The commander of the 127th IAP Lieutenant Colonel A.V. Gordienko, who checked the posts at the aircraft parking lots, immediately went to the command post. The operational duty officer on the phone reported that a message had been received about the bombing by German planes of the city of Grodno.

    GRODNO is a synonym for Moscow ??)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 10: 08
      +4
      Ask Milchakov why he brought similar material when answering the question of escorting distant bombers to Moscow. Understand your own stupidities yourself. If your consultant confuses the names, it's time to change the old sick person
  40. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 19
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    Only on the afternoon of June 23rd barrage balloons rise. If, according to our sofa experts Kozinkin and Milchakov, everyone in Moscow knows that German planes will not reach the capital, then what the hell are they taking to the air ??

    BECAUSE ALREADY the war has begun - yulia)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 10: 03
      +3
      Olya, didn’t she start on June 22? Or will it be a new book that the start of the war traitors traitors distorted?
      I trudge on the shameless impudence and falsification of events and material of the article by Kozinkin!
      Author aKtoR, provide a link to this discussion in any part so that thousands of readers will see the real look and level of awareness of Kozinkin.
      1. RuSFr
        RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 22
        +1
        Olya, we’re actually dumb and dumb. Ivan, you imagine she ran to cry to the Militeri site and there for a week no one supported her. Type Girl Victoria offended the big Olga Kozinkin. can you imagine: no one stood up and did not repulse Victoria. Kozinkin, can you at least give a link to one site where you appreciated yourselves?))) Pay attention that no one supported you except this friend? As the thief says, and the hat is on, or who is shouting louder than catch the thief. This is about your couple of resident-falsifiers of the history of our country. How much have you sold her, Herods?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 33
          -4
          Quote: RuSFr
          This is about your couple of resident-falsifiers of the history of our country.

          Since when did the Bundeswehr start calling modern Russia "our Motherland"? When did you lie - when you were called an "intelligence agent from the NNA" or now, calling Russia your Motherland?
      2. VS
        VS 16 September 2018 16: 16
        -6
        oh ka that poked you)))

        WHERE did you find where I was writing that the war did not start on June 22 ??)))

        I noticed long ago - the more bizarre the author is - in this case, an anonymous lady inventing cho there who "thought" in the General Staff or the Kremlin - the weirder his fans are)))
  41. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 21
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    In the first raid on Moscow in July, 1941 German bombers also do not hide behind their fighters.

    and they type from Suwalki flew to Moscow in July?))

    Yulia - yes it’s impossible for you to prove that the attack was not expected, but if someone did something, contrary to the tyrant)) Do not push)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 27
      +3
      Again we see the distortion of the facts by the liar Kozinkin
      There are no words in the article that the flight took place in July from Suwalki.
      The article describes this method of impudent Kozinkin. Attribute your words to your opponent and laugh at him. Many see this, but no one puts in the place of this boor liar
  42. ivamoss
    ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 21
    +3
    I understand the author and other people who are trying not to enter into a discussion with such an impudent writer imposing his opinion without a single fact, misinterpreting words in front of his eyes. Completely without shame and conscience man. Ready to sell anything for my books. Now the British are also doing. One to one. Klyoskin outdid the lies of the traitor-rezun
  43. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 22
    -6
    Quote: aKtoR
    sayings couch experts Kozinkin and Milchakova - again, their own fiction is not based on anything ??. ABOUT

    TTX find our TB 7 and IL-4 and compare from the TTX in range with the bombs - for the German)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 38
      +2
      Let's compare them with a UFO from an Alpha Centauri? Why do we need cryptic hints that cost nothing? Don't take the discussion aside, Rezun’s follower writer Kozinkin.
      Clearly articulate your idea and compare the characteristics of the aircraft so that this refutes the opinion expressed in the article.
      Clearly and with facts
  44. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 25
    -8
    Quote: AsmyppoL
    Or do you have facts confirming that the Germans were not going to strike at Moscow and in Moscow they knew this from such and such a source. Facts, sir, otherwise everyone sees you as a scam writer

    TTX aircraft to help you)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 44
      +1
      Insolent crook not having something clever to say. Mysterious hints
      Straight soap bubble. I was swollen from pride, but I can’t say anything smart
      1. RuSFr
        RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 19
        +2
        They are both like that
  45. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 27
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    The distance to Novorossiysk from airfields in Bulgaria or Romania with a bypass of the Crimea peninsula (the Germans knew about the presence of locators in the air defense system of Crimea) was ~ 880 km, and

    why did you remove from the report that the FIRST raids on Novorossiysk were not identified at all as GERMAN ???))
    Yulechka - if you hang TANKS on a plane with a radius of 500 km that he flew THERE MORE THAN 10) 0 km and returned, then the plane will not take bombs by WEIGHT - in the right amount)) WILL NOT TAKE OFF))))

    By the way, NOBODY drives planes to the range limit - there is always a supply of fuel for "half an hour" plus you need it))) For fornication)))
    1. ivamoss
      ivamoss 16 September 2018 09: 56
      +3
      I watched. From June 23, identified at Novorossiysk as the Yu-88. No need to lie
      Searching the Internet is even good for the brain.
      And then again put your thoughts into the mouth of a yuleka. Speak directly that Kozinkin’s little olech said this.
      Based on materials it is clear that Henkel with a range of 2600 kilometers and a bomb load of 1,5 tons will have a navigational supply of fuel for SEVES KILOMETERS.
      In your opinion, how much stock is required for German pilots?
      How much did our distant nightlights take?
      Do not need a chase. Give the numbers. No cryptic hints are needed for which you do not know what makes sense
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 16 September 2018 13: 10
        -5
        Quote: ivamoss
        I watched. From June 23, identified at Novorossiysk as the Yu-88. No need to lie
        Searching the Internet is even good for the brain.

        Since you do not have them, you could not find information that the Yu-88 was in service with Romania:
        Ju-88 was exported to Hungary, Italy, Romania, and Finland.

        https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9495/69185483.201/0_1014de_9e5e54f8_orig.jpg

        Given the distance from Romania to Novorossiysk, there is nothing surprising in the fact that they could fly there.
        1. Romv
          Romv 16 September 2018 13: 54
          +2
          Is this to ensure that Romanians flew to Novorossiysk on 8 planes to trade? Many have already told you: why do you provide any information that you found on Wikipedia? In the sense, the Finns needed to fly to Novorossiysk? or to Italians? Did they bring Ritsa? If you place something, then accompany it with text. or can you just copy and ask questions thoughtfully? The forum is nevertheless military should be thought out. I'm right on my mind
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 16 September 2018 21: 37
            -3
            Quote: RomV
            Is this to ensure that Romanians flew to Novorossiysk on 8 planes to trade?

            This is me to the fact that we must take into account all the nuances, and not speculate on unconfirmed facts. Your hint about trading best speaks of your level of thinking. Bravo, burn on ..
  46. VS
    VS 16 September 2018 09: 33
    -8
    Quote: aKtoR
    The Germans were confident of their victory in three months and did not see the goal of striking at Moscow, because They needed Stalin in order to conclude a treaty with anyone after the defeat of the USSR ... But the military-political leadership did not know this 21-22 June 1941 of the year ...

    Here it is cho ((((AND WHO SAYS TO YOU - again YOUR understanding and fantasies are given out - who are you thinking guessing ??)))
  47. ccsr
    ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 33
    -7
    Quote: AsmyppoL
    So that you are not called a swindler, write: "I think that the author means flights of single planes to Moscow. If so, then the author is lying."

    In this case, you are a rogue because you are talking about air raids on Moscow, not night raids at all.
    1. RuSFr
      RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 16
      +2
      Quote: ccsr
      In this case, you are a rogue because you are talking about air raids on Moscow, not night raids at all.

      that’s a rascal !! You still write that the war began in the afternoon of June 22.
      You don’t even know what to write back, an aviation specialist horseradish ????? All the addition to the article about the possibility of a raid on Moscow at the beginning of the war !!! About three started to bomb? Or did you fill your eyes and write all kinds of gibberish ??? You shy people then, swindler
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 16 September 2018 13: 19
        -5
        Quote: RuSFr
        Or did you fill your eyes and write all kinds of gibberish ??? You shy people then, swindler

        A typical trick of the State Department’s troll is not being able to reasonably refute the author, ascribe to him any stupidity. Burn on, cool guy ...
  48. ccsr
    ccsr 16 September 2018 10: 44
    -5
    Quote: ivamoss
    Fighters at night are not able to detect enemy bombers.

    Even if they will be given the coordinates of enemy aircraft from radar operators or use spotlights to illuminate targets?
  49. RuSFr
    RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 04
    +2
    ccsr,
    I explain to stupid. What expert are you in FIG? You are bast shoes! As I understand it, the author showed that German aircraft could fly out after 23-00. If there was such a need or set a goal
    Where are the facts that Moscow was not afraid of a raid after the outbreak of war ??? Facts are documents! That's what impudent scammers are. They work for a couple, for their profit. Resonists damn
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 44
      -4
      Quote: RuSFr
      As I understand it, the author showed that German aircraft could fly out after 23-00. If there was such a need or set a goal

      The author generally loves to fantasize, which is why delusional thoughts are born in her head, from which the "NNA scout" is excited. Take a sedative or go to the red light district.
      Quote: RuSFr
      Where are the facts that Moscow was not afraid of a raid after the outbreak of war ??? Facts are documents!

      The air defense missile defense did not fuss on June 21, but gave reasonable orders based on the capabilities of German bomber aircraft. Well, especially for dumb people - what kind of strategist would think of bombing a remote object, diverting huge forces and means, instead of throwing all the strength of the Luftwaffe to destroy Soviet aviation in the border districts in order to deprive air support of the ground forces of the spacecraft.
      Such strategists are Madame Gritsatsuyeva, who distorts other people's texts and "a former intelligence officer of the NPA," who became a senile after he imagined himself to be a strategist.
  50. RuSFr
    RuSFr 16 September 2018 11: 07
    0
    Quote: V.S.
    Someone "Slavin" is actually an ASSISTANT to the Chief of the General Staff in his

    And you pour in to us that Zhukov’s assistant didn’t lie like his boss in his memoirs ???
    And where is the evidence that they both do not lie for a couple. Zhukov, after all, in the description of the events of the evening of June 22, has three lies in one fragment. Where is the evidence that the second is not a liar? this is how the falsificationists write a new story, from there a control point, from here and take a look
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2018 11: 46
      -5
      Quote: RuSFr
      And you pour in to us that Zhukov’s assistant didn’t lie like his boss in his memoirs ???

      What a blatant illiteracy - our liar does not know who Slavin is, and when he served in the General Staff, he decided earlier that he was Zhukov’s assistant. Burn on, clown ...