Military Review

Soviet republic turns into a military camp

219

100 years ago, the young Soviet Republic was in the ring of fronts and became a military camp. 2 September 1918 was established by the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic (RVSR, RVS, Revolutionary Military Council) headed by Leo Trotsky.


The document very vividly and clearly defined the essence of the then time: “Face to face with imperialistic predators seeking to strangle the Soviet Republic and tear its corpse apart, face to face with the yellow blues of treason of the Russian bourgeoisie, which turned the working and peasant country to the jackals of foreign imperialism, The Central Executive Committee of the Soviets of Workers, Peasants, Red Army and Cossack Deputies decides: The Soviet Republic is turning into a military camp.

At the head of all fronts and all military institutions of the republic is the Revolutionary Military Council with one commander in chief. All the forces and means of a socialist republic are placed at the disposal of the sacred cause of armed struggle against rapists. All citizens, regardless of occupation and age, must unconditionally fulfill those obligations for the defense of the country, which will be assigned to them by the Soviet authorities.

Supported by the entire working population of the country, the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army will crush and reject the imperialist predators, devouring the soil of the Soviet Republic. The All-Russian CEC decides to present its decision to reach the widest working and peasant masses, obliging all rural, volost and city councils and all Soviet institutions to hang it in prominent places. Comrade Trotsky is unanimously appointed Chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council. Commander-in-Chief of all fronts - t. Vatsetis. ”

This document established the PBC as the highest collegial body to guide the country's defense. The first chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic was appointed Lev Trotsky, people's commissar for military and maritime affairs, who led the activities of the RVSR from September 6 1918 to January 26 on January 1925. RVS was the highest collegiate military authority in the country until June 20 1934, when it was abolished.

Since October 1917, up to March 1918, in Soviet Russia there was no single governing body that would simultaneously deal with the formation of the Red Army, directing its military operations, and ensuring the defense of the country as a whole. These issues were addressed by: People's Commissariat for Military and Maritime Affairs of the RSFSR (Commissar of Military Affairs), formed by the II All-Russian Congress of Soviets; All-Russian Bureau of Military Organizations under the Central Party Committee; The revolutionary field headquarters of the Supreme Commander and the Committee of the revolutionary defense of Petrograd. Evaluating this period, V.I. Lenin said: “We had to go all the time gropingly ... groping, trying, in what way the problem could be solved in a given situation. And the task was clear. Without the armed defense of the socialist republic, we could not exist. ”

Only 4 March 1918, by resolution of the Council of People's Commissars (SNK), signed by V.I. Lenin was established Supreme Military Council with the subordination of all the central bodies of the military department. This decree abolished the post of chief commander, dissolved the Revolutionary Defense Committee, disbanded the All-Russian Collegium on the Organization and Management of the Red Army, and the Revolutionary Field Headquarters at GHQ. L. Trotsky became the chairman of the Supreme Military Council. The exacerbation of the situation on the fronts of the Civil War and the start of large-scale intervention by the Entente countries 2 September created a new body of supreme military power in the country - the Revolutionary Military Council, which combined the functions of the liquidated Supreme Military Council and the People’s Commissariat for Military and Naval Affairs. All the organs and officials of the military department — the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the All-Russian main headquarters (Vseroglavshtab), the RVSR Field Headquarters, the Supreme Military Inspectorate, the All-Russian Bureau of Military Commissioners (later the Political Department and the Political Directorate of the RVSR), the Military Revolutionary Tribunal and other central management.

By decision of the VIII Party Congress in April 1919, the Political Department was established under the Revolutionary Military Council, which in May was transformed into the Political Administration (PUR). The PUR was responsible for all party political, cultural and educational work in the army and on navy, army press, training of political workers. The political department appointed and approved military commissars, sent the communists to political work. The heads of PUR at different periods of the civil war were I.T. Smilga, L.P. Serebryakov, S.I. Gusev, V.A. Antonov-Ovseenko. In October 1919, the Institute of Political Leaders of Companies, Squadrons, and Batteries was introduced to help the military commissars of the regiments. In December 1919, at the initiative of the Central Committee of the party and the RVSR, the All-Russian Congress of Political Workers was convened, which adopted the provision on the political departments of the fronts, armies, and divisions.

The supply department of the Red Army was in charge of the Central Supply Board, which existed before 1921. It was entrusted with the management of replenishment, weapons and ammunition, food for the needs of the army. This control played a big role in the victory of the Red Army. The training of commanders for the Red Army was carried out by the Main Directorate of Military Schools. Other departments were created: the General Directorate of Universal Military Training, the General Directorate of the Military Air Force.

The main apparatus of the RVSR, through which he led the armed forces, was the Field Headquarters. It was formed on September 6, 1918 instead of the disbanded headquarters of the Supreme Military Council. Originally called the Headquarters of the RVSR, and then on November 8, 1918 it was renamed the Field Headquarters. The field headquarters collected and processed the information necessary for conducting military operations, transferring the orders of the high command to the troops, directing military operations, and also operating the railway network of the theater of military operations. The field headquarters consisted of several departments: operational, administrative and registration, registration, central administration of military communications, field administration aviation, inspectors' directorates: infantry, cavalry (since 1919), artillery, engineers and armored units (since 1920). In addition, the Field Headquarters included the military-economic and military-sanitary departments. The chiefs of the Field Staff at different times were N.I. Rattel, F.V. Kostyaev, M.D. Bonch-Bruevich, P.P. Lebedev. On February 10, 1921, the Field Headquarters merges with the All-Russian General Headquarters into a single Headquarters of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army.

Trotsky (chairman), Petr Kobozev, Konstantin Mekhonoshin, Fedor Raskolnikov, Karl Danishevsky, Ivan Smirnov, Arkady Rosengolts and Joachim Vatsetis (commander-in-chief of the armed forces) were included in the first composition of the RVS. At the first meetings of the PBC, responsibilities were distributed among its members. So, Nikolay Podvoisky, who became a member of the September September XII, and Mekhonoshin, became the head of the Supreme Military Inspectorate, Smirnov united leadership of political work in the army, and Danishevsky was entrusted to lead the Revolutionary Tribunal. To this composition of the Revolutionary Military Council, members of the Commissariat of Military Commissars Ephraim Sklyansky, Semyon Aralov and Konstantin Yurenev were soon joined. Sklyansky took the post of deputy chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council, the rest of the PBC took an active part in the combat work on the fronts. It is worth noting that many of the most important issues of military construction and the organization of hostilities were usually not resolved by the entire composition of the Red Army; since the majority of its members had been on fronts for months.

8 July 1919 of the year Lenin signed a decree of the Council of People's Commissars on the approval of a new, abbreviated (6 man) PPC composition. It includes: Trotsky (chairman), Sklyansky (deputy chairman), A. Rykov, S. Gusev, I. Smilga and the new commander-in-chief S. S. Kamenev. All the rest were relieved of their duties as members of the Revolutionary Military Council, leaving them in responsible military work — they were usually members of the front-guard military revolutions. Since then, the meetings of the Revolutionary Military Council have become regular. They were held three times a week: on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. In the future, throughout the entire period of the Civil War, at various times, the RVS consisted of: N.I. Podvoisky, D.I. Kursky, I.V. Stalin, V.M. Altfater, V.I. Nevsky, A.I. Okulov, V.A. Antonov-Ovseenko.

Thus, during the heavy civil war, the Revolutionary Military Council, as the supreme military authority in the Soviet republic, managed to unite all military institutions, form a massive regular Red Army, mobilize all the human and material resources of the country, protect the October conquest of the White Guards, and various nationalists and interventionists. It is enough to note that only in the first four months after the establishment of the RVSR, the Red Army was replenished with 60 with new divisions, tens of thousands of military specialists - representatives of the commanding staff of the Russian imperial army - took up military service. In the Red Army, they began to massively prepare their command cadres — with the help of special courses of the Red Army. RVS always kept the work of training courses for red commanders under special control, and at critical moments when it was necessary to change the course of an operation, consolidated cadet brigades were introduced into battle, which were distinguished by courage and perseverance in battle.

RVS also prepared second-line troops - in Moscow alone, the number of reserve formations was almost 100 thousand workers, and in the Moscow District about another 100 thousand people were trained, in Petrograd - 50 thousand people. In addition, the Red Army was used for peaceful construction. In 1920, the First Revolutionary Army of Labor was organized in the Urals, and the Ukrainian Labor Army was created in the same year.

Interestingly, at the same time, Trotsky began to create the core of the future "world army". At the beginning of 1919, national and international units began to form as part of the Red Army by order of the RVSR. Thus, a cavalry brigade of Volga Germans, a Bashkir rifle brigade, a Latvian rifle division, and others were formed. At the same time, companies and battalions of Hungarians, Czechs, Poles, Germans, mostly from among former prisoners of war, were formed. Korean and Chinese units were also formed.
Author:
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Victory of the Red Army on the Don
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219 comments
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  1. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 2 September 2018 06: 14
    0
    Then, 100 years ago, we were surrounded by a ring of enemies and today, a century later, we are surrounded by a ring of enemies. Years go by, but the essence does not change. The West seeks to fulfill the task of dismantling Russia as a state. Only then did the power relying on the people be able to mobilize it for great achievements in the name of building the Soviet Republic, and today, power distancing itself from the people, methodically destroys its conquests while taking all material resources into its own hands and cynically offers to tighten their belts in the name of a narrow group of people, thereby provoking the discontent of the people and internal tension that could cause a social explosion, which will inevitably be used by external enemies in order to ruin Russia. The methodology for using social discontent with the phased inclusion of interethnic and religious contradictions, strategists from the West worked out perfectly, and given the experience of previous unsuccessful attempts to dismantle Russia, it suggests that the West this time certainly would not allow what would have been created in Russia something like the Revolutionary Military Council.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 2 September 2018 08: 38
      +4
      This year, confidence in the government falls after the actions of the government. You can recall how this happened already in this century, but then it was somehow getting better.
      The enemies of Russia dream of what would happen to present-day Russia as well as to the USSR in the 90s.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 2 September 2018 08: 45
        0
        Unfortunately, again, it is the actions of the government! Well, smarter it is necessary to carry out reforms, more carefully think through the consequences.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 2 September 2018 09: 08
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        The enemies of Russia dream of what would happen to present-day Russia as well as to the USSR in the 90s.

        So they themselves destroyed the Union, or again the machinations of the West? When will we begin to take responsibility?
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 2 September 2018 10: 01
          +4
          Do you take responsibility? Sami --- who is this? I then just went to school. I wanted to be both an October student, and a pioneer, and a Komsomol member! Just then, people believed in the promises of the government that, now, shock therapy would pass, and the market would put it in its place. Grandma wasn’t paid a pension for almost a year, but people believed ... Here they are --- Western technology! Or didn’t you know ??? Have you taken responsibility?
          In 2005, here in St. Petersburg, pensioners and communists rallied against pension innovations! And somehow they became smaller than the USSR then scold everyone! That's what
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 2 September 2018 10: 47
            0
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Do you take responsibility? Sami --- who is this?

            Those who are now 50 and older ..
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 2 September 2018 13: 20
              +3
              Quote: RUSS
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Do you take responsibility? Sami --- who is this?

              Those who are now 50 and older ..

              Yes Yes. Collective fault. For all. And if they are quite elderly, then they are to blame for the Victory? To this speech? Forgot to blame the White Guards for the collapse of RI? What theft due to wars was, both the REV and the 1MV.
              Although, what can I say, in 2009 in Europe equate fascism to totalitarianism. Apparently agree with Olgovich, well, as for Nuremberg2, it was also not a war, but a different way.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 33
                0
                Quote: Reptiloid
                . And if they are quite elderly, then they are to blame for the Victory?

                And this is what? The Great Victory of the Soviet people is sacred, or do you think that I am paranoid on the basis of the "White Guard"? And I am against Victory?
                Quote: Reptiloid
                Although, what can I say, in 2009 in Europe equate fascism to totalitarianism

                I do not put an equal sign between them, but there are common points.
            2. Doliva63
              Doliva63 2 September 2018 18: 57
              +5
              Quote: RUSS
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Do you take responsibility? Sami --- who is this?

              Those who are now 50 and older ..

              Do you have a problem with education? So maybe learn before you post nonsense here? Here, after all, normal people meet.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 20: 15
                -3
                Quote: Doliva63
                Do you have a problem with education? So maybe learn before you post nonsense here? Here, after all, normal people meet

                Heard, I forgot to ask you, what and where should I speak and write, understood?
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 2 September 2018 09: 07
      +2
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      Then, 100 years ago, we were surrounded by a ring of enemies and today, a century later, we are surrounded by a ring of enemies.

      It’s our own fault that there is a ring of enemies around us ....
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 2 September 2018 09: 13
        0
        And what exactly are they to blame for: the desire to pursue an independent policy, the desire to have a powerful state, or the unwillingness to follow the lead of Western banks and international corporations?!?
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 2 September 2018 10: 48
          -4
          Quote: Phil77
          And what exactly are to blame?

          In the fact that the whole world was opposed, we are friends only with tramps like the DPRK or Venezuela, etc.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 2 September 2018 10: 58
            +1
            Do you yourself think that something is not happening with the modern world? Unfortunately, the ball is not run by sovereign countries, but by transnational corporations, and more and more actively.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 2 September 2018 11: 01
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              But you yourself do not think that with the modern world, something is not happening?

              No, it doesn’t.
              The world is developing - the economy of the EU, USA, China, India, Japan and many other countries is growing, respectively, the well-being of citizens, too, but the fact that something is happening here is not right is a fact!
              1. Sweetheart
                Sweetheart 2 September 2018 12: 46
                +1
                Quote: RUSS
                In the fact that the whole world was opposed, we are friends only with tramps like the DPRK or Venezuela, etc.

                And next.
                Quote: RUSS
                The world is developing - the economy of the EU, USA, China, India, Japan and many other countries is growing, respectively, the well-being of citizens, too, but the fact that something is happening here is not right is a fact!

                So you are for the fact that Russia fell under the West completely? Thank you ...
                By the way, the People’s Republic of China doesn’t ascribe to the group of those who are already very sick from the family pains of capitalism.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 2 September 2018 18: 26
                  -1
                  Quote: The Swordsman
                  So you are for what. Russia fell under the West completely?

                  And she doesn’t lie? Do you think to finally lay it when you take your Khrushchev?
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 2 September 2018 18: 57
                    0
                    No, to finally treat this external government. An example? Germany, Ukraine, and by and large the European Union. Is not convincing? Name at least one political decision adopted by these countries without consulting Washington. In Germany, since the war, there’s also an Amer. that this country is not occupied and independent in its decisions?!?
                    1. RUSS
                      RUSS 2 September 2018 20: 17
                      -1
                      Quote: Phil77
                      Name at least one political decision adopted by these countries without consulting Washington

                      Stalin, under pressure from Washington and Co., decided to dissolve the Comintern.
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 2 September 2018 20: 47
                        +4
                        Uh, no, dear! Stalin made this, by the way, a wise decision because the Comintern had more headaches than good, and because the Comintern was under the influence of a certain Trotsky.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 18: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: RUSS
                        Stalin, under pressure from Washington and Co., decided to dissolve the Comintern.

                        No, this wise decision was made so that the Red Army could enter Europe and take Berlin, so that the USSR would not be blamed for the expansion of communism, and not split the anti-fascist forces. They disbanded the Comintern, but created the Cominform.
                  2. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 5 September 2018 17: 55
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And she doesn’t lie?

                    Are you glad? Your dream come true?
                    do not rejoice and do not dream, you are already past 90s. evil, black and corrupt-past.
          2. RUSS
            RUSS 2 September 2018 20: 30
            -6
            Sculpt the cons, but we ourselves created the "iron curtain", we closed ourselves off from the world.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 2 September 2018 20: 49
              +4
              Again no. It was a retaliatory measure. Like the creation of the Warsaw block! By the way, I’m not minus you.
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 2 September 2018 10: 55
          +2
          Quote: Phil77
          And what exactly are they to blame for? The desire to pursue an independent policy, the desire to have a powerful state,!?
          This is probably because this ring is because the Russian Federation is still territorially the largest state with large reserves of resources, both minerals and natural --- water, forests .... with not the largest population. Envious speeches on this topic were still in the 19th century.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 2 September 2018 11: 08
            +2
            Quote: Reptiloid
            so natural --- water, forests ...

            Brazil is in the top three in terms of water and forest reserves, so what?
            Are they also among enemies? And they are also trying to capture and destroy the Anglo-Saxons?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 2 September 2018 11: 13
              +2
              Yes, everything is already bought and overbought there! Do you want this?
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 11: 41
                +3
                Quote: Phil77
                Yes, everything is already bought and overbought there! Do you want this?

                So we bought everything laughing
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 2 September 2018 11: 18
              +2
              In terms of contribution to the "lungs of the planet", the selva of South Africa is in third place, the Russian Federation, with its forests, taiga, is in second place. About the economy of Brazil, the history of Brazil, foreign capital there ---- you somehow yourself, yourself, yourself.?
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 11: 46
                +3
                By GDP, Brazil is in 8th place, an increase of 2%. Russia by 12th place in GDP, growth of 1,3%
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 2 September 2018 12: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: RUSS
                  By GDP, Brazil is in 8th place, an increase of 2%. Russia by 12th place in GDP, growth of 1,3%

                  GDP per capita in Russia is $ 9243 a year, and in Brazil - 8670
                  You are already taking the numbers, show the source. Http: //ibusiness.ru/blog/power/42605
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 2 September 2018 12: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: The Swordsman
                    GDP per capita in Russia is $ 9243 a year, and in Brazil - 8670

                    And the prices?
                    1. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 2 September 2018 13: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: RUSS
                      And the prices?

                      And the prices are the same, you have "fought" for this since 90, now why are you shedding tears?
                      At the same time I recommend to look at favelas, where are life and prices ..
                      1. RUSS
                        RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 35
                        +4
                        Quote: The Swordsman
                        At the same time I recommend looking at favelas, where are life and prices

                        Favelles are a part of Rio, we also live in the "favelas" and there are many more, and housing is given to some only after the GDP itself intervened during the live broadcast.
            3. Sweetheart
              Sweetheart 2 September 2018 12: 48
              -1
              Quote: RUSS
              Brazil is in the top three in terms of water and forest reserves, so what?

              Therefore, the leader of BRAZIL, who only hinted that the United States was superfluous in her country, was immediately thrown off, like the leader of Argentina, and now they are building the US base there.
              so are you for the same result regarding Russia?
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 04
                +2
                Dilmu threw his own parliament, oh yes, there was again the hand of the State Department! Right?
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 2 September 2018 13: 29
                  +2
                  Quote: RUSS
                  there was again the hand of the State Department!

                  Apparently the people hiding under the nickname RUSS. The same Russian as a Brazilian ... why are you so tense for the State Department?
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 2 September 2018 15: 07
                    +1
                    Quote: The Swordsman
                    Quote: RUSS
                    there was again the hand of the State Department!

                    Apparently the people hiding under the nickname RUSS. The same Russian as a Brazilian ... why are you so tense for the State Department?

                    I'm on the salary of the State Department! Enviously? wassat
              2. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 15
                +1
                Quote: The Swordsman
                they are building a US base there.
                so are you for the same result regarding Russia?

                This is an internal affair of Argentina, we would also have deployed our bases in "some" countries, they are not allowed to do this, and in some countries we left ...
                1. Sweetheart
                  Sweetheart 2 September 2018 13: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: RUSS
                  we would also deploy

                  If you had deployed anything, it has nothing to do with military bases. And such as entering the country's politics, it was ordered.
                  The leader of Argentina, thrown off at the direct orders of the United States.
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 2 September 2018 15: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: The Swordsman
                    Quote: RUSS
                    we would also deploy

                    If you had deployed anything, it has nothing to do with military bases. And such as entering the country's politics, it was ordered.
                    The leader of Argentina, thrown off at the direct orders of the United States.

                    Did they tell you this on the first channel? Or is there infa from the State Department?
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 2 September 2018 11: 12
            0
            Here, here, here at the very point! Three-point throw !!! Only slightly correct, probably even earlier somewhere from the second half of the eighteenth.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 2 September 2018 12: 08
              0
              Quote: Phil77
              Here, here, here to the very point! Three-point throw !!

              You still kiss his Reptilod laughing - "Why, without fear of sin,
              Does the cuckoo praise the Rooster?
              For praising the Cuckoo " hi
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 2 September 2018 12: 18
                +2
                Stupid. Are all the arguments over? Sorry, it was even interesting.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 2 September 2018 12: 41
                  +2
                  Quote: Phil77
                  Stupid. Are all the arguments over? Sorry, it was even interesting.

                  There were no arguments from the word at all. !!! Somehow.
                  1. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 2 September 2018 12: 51
                    -2
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    There were no arguments from the word at all. !!!

                    Correct assessment of the "russ" chatter. It always works like that.
                    1. RUSS
                      RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: The Swordsman
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      There were no arguments from the word at all. !!!

                      Correct assessment of the "russ" chatter. It always works like that.

                      Follow me? Interesting!
                2. RUSS
                  RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Phil77
                  Stupid. Are all the arguments over? Sorry, it was even interesting.

                  Just kidding, no offense laughing
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 2 September 2018 12: 40
                +4
                Quote: RUSS
                For praising the Cuckoo " hi
                So what's the problem? You, together with Olgovich, Teterin, and Koshnitsa, are crying for Russia, which you lost Crying, but you’re sorry for each other’s lost, all your eyes probably cried ..... And you would have seen it when you started talking on this topic, what do they coincide with ... Do not figure it out to you.
                Well, in another article, I was glad of the great comrade's great comment! So what? It’s envious of podezzky ??? !!!
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 02
                  +3
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  So what's the problem?

                  I do not have problems.
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  crying for Russia, which was lost Crying, but friend, friend regret the lost,

                  Never cried and give examples where I regretted someone laughing
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 2 September 2018 13: 26
                    +3
                    Quote: RUSS
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    crying for Russia, which was lost Crying, but friend, friend regret the lost,

                    Never cried and give examples where I regretted someone laughing
                    Shaw so trifle? Shaw Koshnitsa, Shaw Olgovich, Shaw Teterin ---- chiefly, not form, but content! Until the evening!
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 13: 02
                  +2
                  But I’m interested. Judging by the comments of Olgovich, a middle-aged man lived under the Union. He probably got a higher education, an apartment, etc. absolutely free, and medicine was unlike the current one. Where does such hatred for the Soviet government come from? Liberal? Yes no, it’s more for an empire, but doesn’t understand that the autocracy has rotted through and through by 17 years. Maybe relatives were repressed, it’s not with him alone. Yes, and why moan in that era, maybe the family has lost its name?
                  1. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 2 September 2018 13: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Where does such hatred for Soviet power come from?

                    The answer, as always, can be three-fold: A) for a fee. B) Due to liberal perversions in the understanding of history, a kind of pro-Western who thinks he is a patriot. C) from a family living near us, but always having a muzzle in his pocket.
                    All three points, as a rule, appear in one person, there are a lot of examples. From Svanidze to all Nekrasovs with Drandins and other Zhirinovsky.
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 2 September 2018 18: 37
                      -2
                      There is one more explanation. It was difficult for a smart and decent person to live in a society of mediocrity and boors. So he does not want a repetition.
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 2 September 2018 19: 01
                        +5
                        How categorical you are that you yourself found the times of the Union? I would not say that I was surrounded by mediocrity and louts!
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 18: 51
                        +3
                        Quote: kalibr
                        There is one more explanation. It was difficult for a smart and decent person to live in a society of mediocrity and boors. So he does not want a repetition.

                        Soviet society was not a society of mediocrity and boors, it was a society of romantics, dreamers, heroes. You lack objectivity. Is today's society better than Soviet? Do not make me laugh. In today's society, living well only like you.
                      3. Sweetheart
                        Sweetheart 7 September 2018 16: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        It was difficult for a smart and decent person to live in a society of mediocrity and boors

                        Neither smart nor decent you can be attributed after all your writing.
                        But it’s clear who they relied on in the 90s on mediocrity and boors.
                        You are from 90 ...
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 September 2018 12: 07
                      -1
                      Quote: The Swordsman
                      The answer, as always, can be three-fold: A) for a fee. B) Due to liberal perversions in the understanding of history, a kind of pro-Western who thinks he is a patriot. C) from a family living near us, but always having a muzzle in his pocket.

                      lol laughing
                      "Uma Chamber" (c). No. 6 yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 23: 56
                        +2
                        Olgievich, ward number 6, and how long have you been from there?
                    3. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 4 September 2018 05: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: The Swordsman
                      Quote: Phil77
                      Where does such hatred for Soviet power come from?

                      A) for a fee. B) Due to liberal perversions ........ C) from the family ......
                      All three points, as a rule, appear in one person, there are a lot of examples. From Svanidze to all Nekrasovs with Drandins and other Zhirinovsky.
                      Not so long ago I read the answer to this question. The point is that a person set himself a grandiose career or material goal, decided that he would realize it with the membership of the CPSU, tried, tried, even though he was against at heart, and ----- happened! Something was not enough ---- talent, knowledge, abilities ...... And the CPSU or the USSR is to blame. And he himself is the victim, and not the loser, or sucks ...
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 September 2018 06: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        Never answer! Do not wait! Since this is beyond the scope of the training manual. !!!!

                        lol laughing
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        And how strictly he asked Alexander Green ---- why in 1937 he did not go to court ... And as I asked why he himself did not help the exile in Toronto with any money, so he hid !!!!

                        And what is the connection between the court and ..... Toronto? belay
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        True, it should be added that not only Olgovich, but none of the monarchists helped her, only crocodile tears to pour!

                        Olga Alexandrovna Romanova was a well-known artist, her watercolors are in museums, she has wonderful sons and grandchildren: she never asked for any help.
                        Why did "help" come to her mind? request
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 September 2018 12: 04
                    -2
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Where does such hatred for Soviet power come from?

                    They love their homeland, not power. And the power that led Russia to extinction already by 1964 and the borders of the 17th century for what to love?
                    Maybe you and you like Ukraine, bloated to indecency, stuffed with Russian lands and Russian people by the Bolsheviks, but a normal person does not like this.
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Probably got a higher education, an apartment, etc. absolutely free

                    Without it, we would, of course, live in caves and are illiterate. lol
                    And How the whole world lived and further lives without power owls? belay recourse
                    Quote: Phil77
                    that the autocracy by 17 rotted through and through.

                    There was an unprecedented WORLD WAR.
                    But someone rotted so that without peace. the war quietly and imperceptibly disappeared, with the complete non-resistance of millions.
                    Quote: Phil77
                    maybe what family lost?

                    Look, look, look! yes
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 4 September 2018 18: 18
                      +1
                      Olgovich, good evening! And let me ask you a little provocative question? If you happen to face the choice during the Great Patriotic War. Two options: on the side of the Russian patriot Denikin, or on the side of the same patriots Krasnov, Shkuro, well, Vlasov touch We won’t. So your answer.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 4 September 2018 23: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Phil77
                        Olgovich, good evening! And let me ask you a little provocative question? .......... So your answer.
                        Never answer! Do not wait! Since this is beyond the scope of the training manual. !!!!
                        And how strictly he asked Alexander Green ---- why in 1937 he did not go to court ... And as I asked why he himself did not help the exile in Toronto with any money, so he hid !!!! .
                        True, it should be added that not only Olgovich, but none of the monarchists helped her, only crocodile tears to pour!
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 September 2018 06: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Phil77
                        Olgovich, good evening! And let me ask you a little provocative question? If you happen to face the choice during the Great Patriotic War. Two options: on the side of the Russian patriot Denikin, or on the side of the same patriots Krasnov, Shkuro, well, Vlasov touch We won’t. So your answer.

                        The answer is simple: he would join the ranks of the Red Army, which is at war with the invaders. It could not be otherwise: it is not the authorities that defend, but the Motherland.
                    2. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 7 September 2018 16: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      leading Russia to extinction by 1964 and the borders of the 17th century -

                      Your stupidity is everything. And at the expense of the notorious Russian cross, to the data of 1992, yours tried.
                      Along with those who since 1941 killed Soviet people.
                      so Russophobe, you'd better be silent.
        3. Doliva63
          Doliva63 2 September 2018 19: 05
          0
          Quote: Phil77
          And what exactly are they to blame for: the desire to pursue an independent policy, the desire to have a powerful state, or the unwillingness to follow the lead of Western banks and international corporations?!?

          In everything: they abandoned an independent policy, ruined a powerful state, went about the Western banks and corporations.
          To give Ukraine to the West is the beginning of the collapse of the Russian Federation. Whoever does not see this, a visit to the optometrist will not help.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 2 September 2018 19: 23
            -1
            Specifically, can you name the surnames, who created all this? Or, again, collective responsibility? And a visit to the ophthalmologist is not harmful to anyone, I assure you
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 2 September 2018 20: 06
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              Specifically, can you name the surnames, who created all this? Or, again, collective responsibility? And a visit to the ophthalmologist is not harmful to anyone, I assure you

              You did not study the history or economics of the Union? Khrushchev began to ruin the economy. Not one of his followers made a single move to restore it. Remember the names yourself? It turned out, in the end, what happened. Everyone is still "milking" the successes of socialism, earning their fortunes. I think this is not fair. It was built by ordinary people, but the "chosen ones" have.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 2 September 2018 20: 14
                +3
                As for today, it’s hard to argue and milk and put in your pocket. And as for the time of Brezhnev and Kosygin, these were the most successful years of the USSR. Everything was developing both industry and, do not laugh, agriculture.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 2 September 2018 20: 53
                  -2
                  From 1977 to 1980 he worked as a teacher in the village and saw how agriculture was "developing", and saw the aborigines of the village, taught their children .. And where were you at that time?
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 2 September 2018 21: 22
                    +2
                    And I worked at the factory after 10 years, then the service to the Motherland.
                  2. Sweetheart
                    Sweetheart 2 September 2018 22: 17
                    +2
                    Quote: kalibr
                    From 1977 to 1980 he worked as a teacher in the village and saw how agriculture "develops", and saw the aborigines of the village, taught their children ..

                    Oh, how .. snobbery already rushing ... "aborigines" ... you still call the inhabitants of the villages of Russia natives.
                    What did you see there, the question is interesting. You looked at everything through black glasses. But you didn’t see anything — neither the school, nor the first-aid post, nor the palace of the cult, didn’t see anything .. and now you would have to breed chernukha ..et is necessary as a former party worker
              2. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 20: 20
                -3
                Quote: Doliva63
                Khrushchev began to ruin the economy.

                When Khrushchev was the peak of the development of the USSR.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 20: 54
                  +4
                  Well, what are you right?! What is the peak of development?! It was a dead end. You probably are confused by a term such as * Khrushchev’s thaw *, believe me it was a real destroyer and a short-sighted person accidentally ended up on top. It happens.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 3 September 2018 09: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Well, what are you right?! What is the peak of development?! It was a dead end. You probably are confused by a term such as * Khrushchev’s thaw *, believe me it was a real destroyer and a short-sighted person accidentally ended up on top. It happens.

                    If that was normal, then by inertia from Stalin. The same astronautics, all directives, instructions were during the life of Stalin. And there was a big conversation about it and everything was cited!
  2. nafanal
    nafanal 2 September 2018 06: 29
    +2
    Mdya .... History repeats itself ... Every century the West runs into a bun from Russia ..
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 2 September 2018 06: 52
    -6
    100 years ago, the young Soviet republic found itself in the ring of fronts

    Like this: they just promised eternal peace and prosperity in the jelly shores, and here you have a "ring of fronts." And, of course, everyone around is to blame, but not those, before whose power this "ring" ... and there was no trace request

    Comrade Trotsky is unanimously appointed chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council. Commander-in-chief of all fronts - Comrade Wacetis. ”

    Trotsky was recognized in the 30s as an agent of German and English intelligence since the time of the WWI, as well as Wacetis: one was hacked, the second was shot as a foreign spy and traitor in 1937 by decision of the USSR Armed Forces.
    Well wow: the defense against the interventionists, led .... agents of the interventionists!
    The heads of PUR at different periods of the civil war were I.T. Smilga, L.P. Serebryakov, V.A. Antonov-Ovseenko.
    Smigla-shot by the verdict of the USSR Armed Forces as a traitor and spy in 1937.
    L.P. Serebryakov-shot by the verdict of the USSR Armed Forces as a traitor and spy in 1937.
    V.A. Antonov-Ovseenko-was executed by sentence of the USSR Armed Forces as a traitor and spy in 1937.
    On July 8, 1919, Lenin signed a resolution of the Council of People's Commissars on the approval of a new, reduced (6 people) RRSR staff. It included: Trotsky (chairman), Sklyansky (deputy chairman), A. Rykov, I. Smilga and the new commander in chief S.S. Kamenev

    Rykov-shot, Kamenev died during the purge from an attack, but still yes was charged with conspiracy.

    What an interesting power!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 08: 24
      +5
      Yes, of course, but before the revolution we were simply strangled in * friendly * embraces by our Western allies. And as for Rykov, Kamenev, etc., remember the French Revolution, do not analogies suggest themselves?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 2 September 2018 08: 49
        -4
        Quote: Phil77
        Yes, of course, and before the revolution we were simply strangled in * friendly * embrace by our western allies.

        Everything -each other strangled, a common phenomenon. And there was NO "ring of enemies" and there was no spirit, thanks to the clever policy of Russia ..
        Quote: Phil77
        As for Rykov, Kamenev and others. Remember the French Revolution, analogies are not obvious?

        No side: where is the Convention, the Gironde, the Jacobins, the Directory, the Thermidor, the Brumaire, several armed coups?
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 2 September 2018 09: 00
          +3
          Slightly change the terms and everything, well, almost everything will coincide. As for the ring, it has always existed around our country. Moreover, under any authority! The West needs us as an ally only occasionally! And the smart policy of tsarist Russia led to a war with Japan, you’ll argue ?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 2 September 2018 10: 06
            -2
            Quote: Phil77
            Change the terms a little and that's it, well, almost everything will coincide.

            They don’t change, there’s no one to put Girondins, Jacobins, Danton, Robesper, Thermidor and Brumaire to.
            Quote: Phil77
            As for the ring, it has always existed around our country.

            What was the "ring" in WWI? In the Northern War? In the war of 1812? In other wars? There were ALWAYS allies: either A-Venria, or France, or even England and Prussia (they changed) This is the art of diplomacy, the ability to make compromises, concessions, without yielding on the main thing.

            And when old-age loafers, who have never worked with anyone, who do not understand anything about this, who, nevertheless, see in themselves the navel of the earth, get into this business, it turns out a "ring of enemies" - internal and external.

            Of course, they could act, spitting on everyone and everything, but they also have to pay for it. Unfortunately, they did not pay, but the country.
            Quote: Phil77
            And the smart policy of tsarist Russia led to a war with Japan, will you argue?

            A clever policy of the USSR, according this same logic, then led to the Second World War.
            The clever policy of Russia has led Russia to have a Far East today.
            The desire of Japan to become a continental power led to war. Russia, however, legally leased the land. The difference is obvious.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 2 September 2018 11: 05
              0
              Are you seriously trying to equate the Great Patriotic War with a truly imperialist ?!
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 September 2018 13: 26
                -2
                Quote: Phil77
                Are you seriously trying to equate the Great Patriotic War with a truly imperialist ?!

                Once again: if you think that Russia is to blame for the attack on Russia in Japan, then, according to your approach, the USSR is also to blame
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 15: 19
                  +2
                  I beg your pardon, what and when is the USSR to blame? Was it really that the Second World War was unleashed ?! And weren’t the countries of the West kind to your heart pushing Hitler to our borders? Was it not Comrade Stalin who repeatedly turned to the * civilized * West with proposals to stop the aggressor? No? let me take my leave, deeds. Until evening, my dear opponent!
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 September 2018 08: 18
                    0
                    Quote: Phil77
                    I'm sorry, what and when is the USSR to blame?

                    I’m sorry. yes
                    It is YOUR logic according to which the VICTIM is to blame for being attacked (as in the case of the RYAV), the USSR is also "to blame".
                    What is not clear? Both in the RIAV and the Great Patriotic War they attacked Russia,
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 3 September 2018 20: 25
                      0
                      Do you even understand what you wrote yourself? Here is the most typical feature of the Russian intelligentsia, to put everything upside down!
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 September 2018 06: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: Phil77
                        Do you even understand what you wrote yourself? Here is the most typical feature of the Russian intelligentsia, to put everything upside down!

                        What is incomprehensible to you?
                        I repeat THIRD times: in 1904 and 1941, they attacked Russia, suddenly and without declaring war.
                        And if the victim of aggression is to blame (in your opinion) for attacking her in 1904, then SAME - and in 1941.
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 2 September 2018 11: 34
              +4
              Dear Olgovich, All those allies that you listed had their own, only their own interests. Temporarily coinciding with the interests of Russia. Temporarily. From such an alliance, our country has not gained any benefits.
              1. Sweetheart
                Sweetheart 2 September 2018 13: 01
                +3
                Quote: Phil77
                All those allies that you listed had their own, only their own interests.

                I don’t understand the horse feed .. I don’t understand this. The problem is not the same for the crystal bakers. In their empires, both the gingerbread banks and the jelly rivers and the interests of the Anglo-Saxons directly coincide with the Russian ones, though the very Angles joyfully welcomed the tsar’s murder somehow by ears flies at the olgovichi.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 13: 26
                  +2
                  It is especially touching that with foam at the mouth protecting tsarist Russia they probably consider themselves at least the descendants of the great princes. And the song * how delightful evenings in Russia * are with their unofficial anthem!
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 3 September 2018 02: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    It is especially touching that with foam at the mouth protecting tsarist Russia they probably consider themselves at least the descendants of the great princes. And the song * how delightful evenings in Russia * are with their unofficial anthem!
                    And have you not read the famous commentary on the article by OLEINIKOV, where Olgovich speaks of kinship with the royal family? KINDS ----- in late June, early July.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 September 2018 08: 21
                      -2
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      where olgovich talks about kinship with the royal family? KINDS ----- in late June, early July.

                      Oh, belay Oh wow! good lol laughing
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 3 September 2018 09: 48
                        +1
                        Aaaaaaaaaaaaa, so it was your changer who spoke, so !!! And you have not read !!! When, speaking about the royal family, they wrote "Thank you for the memory of us." For a long time, for a long time, we have not met in articles! By evening I will remember the title of Oleinikov's article. And maybe even earlier!
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 September 2018 12: 18
                      -1
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa so this your changer spoke, means !!!
                      Who-who ?! belay
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      And you have not read !!! When, speaking about the royal family, they wrote "Thank you for the memory of us"

                      lol
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      In the evening, I recall the name of the article by Oleinikov. Or maybe earlier!

                      We are waiting, sir! yes
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 3 September 2018 19: 55
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa so this your changer spoke, means !!!
                        Who-who ?! belay lol We are waiting, sir! yes

                        Oleinikov's article about 1MB, somehow ----- 10 FACTS ABOUT CHILDREN OF HEROES.
                        Olgovich, well, you’re an adult, you seem to be operating on old facts ...... and you forgot the summer .... There you presented a royal family and a woman’s photo ..... I was still surprised at your words as an author, as they thanked you .... Well, you will get acquainted.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 4 September 2018 06: 57
                      -1
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Oleinikov's article about 1MB, somehow ----- 10 FACTS ABOUT CHILDREN OF HEROES.
                      Olgovich, well, you’re an adult, you seem to be operating on old facts ...... and you forgot the summer .... There you presented the royal family and a female photo ....

                      For you, the Russian language is non-native, apparently.
                      Topic article Oleinikova:
                      The state tried to help the families of heroes - soldiers and officers. As the source notes: "it is the duty of the state, which has never, in any war, ever been fulfilled as conscientiously, holyly as it is now."

                      My comment:
                      Thankyou Auto RU-for the truth about us

                      The author did not write about Elizaveta Fedorovna (she is pictured) and no one spoke on her behalf.
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      I then more surprised at your words another author, somehow thanked ...

                      Kindly state the thought in Russianotherwise I don’t understand anything .... request
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 4 September 2018 09: 23
                        +1
                        Olgovich! Exactly, the substitute wrote, and explain to you, well, maybe when he will explain .... although, even then I asked, but I did not receive an answer.
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 5 September 2018 07: 23
                      -1
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Olgovich! Exactly, the changer wrote, and explain to you, well, maybe when he will explain .... although, I then asked, yes did not receive a response yes .

                      So ask in RUSSIAN and I will answer!
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 September 2018 13: 33
                0
                Quote: Phil77
                Dear Olgovich, All those allies whom you listed had their own, only their own interests. Temporarily coinciding with the interests of Russia.

                Dear Sergey, ALL countries listed and not, ALWAYS pursue only YOUR interests. When they coincide (temporarily) with someone else's, they act together. Faithful and eternal allies cannot be, in principle, in view of the different goals and objectives of the countries.
                Quote: Phil77
                Our country has not gained any benefits from such an alliance.

                Acquired a MASS of benefits: when she fought with Austria against the Turks, Prussians, French, against the French against the Germans, etc. Fighting together is much more profitable than one.
                Therefore, the search for allies is ALWAYS one of the first tasks that ensures success.
                It is obvious.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 15: 02
                  +1
                  It is obvious that if these allies weren’t it would be much easier for Russia to fight with the opponents you listed. You would have hoped for yourself, without illusions! Yes, and by the way, during the imperialist side, the Entente was Romania. Did you forget it? ally, so ally! What kind of war to look for!
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 September 2018 08: 26
                    -1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Obviously, if these allies were not then Russia would be much easier to fight with your opponents.

                    Therefore, all countries, at all times (Turks, see yes !) try to secure for themselves allies before the war. lol

                    But for the creative you good
              3. RUSS
                RUSS 2 September 2018 13: 39
                +1
                Quote: Phil77
                Dear Olgovich, All those allies that you listed had their own, only their own interests. Temporarily coinciding with the interests of Russia. Temporarily. From such an alliance, our country has not gained any benefits.

                So this is a normal international practice, "friends of convenience", "friends in misfortune", etc., it has been and will be.
                And the one who skillfully cooks in international affairs steers.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 September 2018 15: 03
                  +1
                  That is, you don’t believe in traditional allies? But Russia never had them, which is proved once again by the fact that we are constantly in the enemy ring. At all times, who would not be in power. * Russia has two faithful allies , its army and navy. *
    2. ver_
      ver_ 2 September 2018 10: 44
      -2
      ... but not to bill Israel for the genocide of the Russian people that the Jews staged in 1917 ..? This is how many percent ran over this time? The country will get rich ..
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 2 September 2018 15: 19
      +6
      Quote: Olgovich
      Trotsky was recognized in the 30s as an agent of German and English intelligence since the time of the WWI, as well as Wacetis: one was hacked, the second was shot as a foreign spy and traitor in 1937 by decision of the USSR Armed Forces.
      Well wow: the defense against the interventionists, led .... agents of the interventionists!


      Stop speculating on this already. Because of your political illiteracy, you are not able to understand that the bulk of the repressed in the 30s was carriers of petty-bourgeois consciousness, who did not stand firmly or never stood in the class position of the working class.

      Their actions at certain points in time (revolution and civil war) could correspond to the interests of the working class, but then their ways and the ways of the working class diverge, since the idea of ​​building a communist society is alien to them. They become interested in personal gain, here and now, from which there is a direct road to counter-revolution. They were not judged for past merits, but for subsequent cases.

      One must understand the historical processes that took place at that time. All these “heroes” (although they were really heroes at one time) did not fight for socialism, but for bourgeois democracy against the remnants of feudalism, the expression of which was tsarism. That is why, when the construction of socialism began in the country, they switched to the side of the class enemy of the proletariat - to the side of the bourgeoisie and world capital.

      PS of you class hatred to the working people rushing by the river, but you have there is no understanding of the dialectics of the class struggle, and therefore there is no understanding of why Trotsky, Wacetis and the like became later enemies of the people.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 2 September 2018 17: 37
          +4
          Quote: Karenius
          For the case of Alexander Green .... the ice ax will be somehow small ... Only a pickaxe !!!


          There is a good Russian proverb:
          "Don't dig a hole for another - you yourself will fall into it."

          And there is also a street one, we were guided by it in childhood:
          "To the instigator (provocateur) - the first whip":
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 2 September 2018 20: 59
              +3
              Quote: Karenius
              Green ... (I don’t know the letters in the last name) when the bear wakes up ... and you hear the rumble from the militant coinage of patriots in boots ...


              Do you mean something like that? From your words Genosse "patriot" is exactly what he says! am
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 2 September 2018 21: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: Karenius
                  With irrigation machines we will clear the streets along which the Leninists and Trotskyists walked ...
                  In the ranks of the Russian boot, a place has been deservedly reserved for me ...

                  Those. Russian Nazi, or, at best, a fascist, as was said? Understood ...
                  1. Karenius
                    Karenius 2 September 2018 22: 22
                    -5
                    Not Russian ... The rest is close to the truth ...
                  2. ver_
                    ver_ 3 September 2018 10: 47
                    0
                    ... interesting - I read today - Stalin planned to deport all the Jews from Moscow ... than they got him ...
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 19: 04
                  +2
                  Quote: Karenius
                  With irrigation machines we will clear the streets along which the Leninists and Trotskyists walked ...
                  In the ranks of the Russian boot, a place has been deservedly reserved for me ...

                  How? You are not Russian, in this "order" you will be a foreigner, ie. a mercenary, like Latvians or Magyars. Do you think that they are?
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 3 September 2018 09: 01
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Stop speculating on this already.

        Stop pretending that everything was fine.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        You by virtue of your political illiteracy unable to understand

        What aplomb lol ! One in one agitator of Jehovah's Witnesses, they are also piously convinced of their infallibility and the right to judge who is literate and who is not. lol
        Quote: Alexander Green
        the majority of the repressed in the 30s were carriers of petty-bourgeois consciousness, who did not stand firmly or never stood on the class position of the working class.

        Why is this dust from a decayed training manual? request
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Their actions at certain points in time (revolution and civil war) could correspond to the interests of the working class, but then their paths and those of the working class diverge, since the idea of ​​building a communist society is alien to them. They become interested in personal gain.

        Those. for you vatsetisy, krylenki, A-ovsyenko, smiglah, etc. many thousands of melons - NOT heroes.
        So it is for me too. By the way, why are their names on city streets? Let's solicit together to fix this error yes
        By the way, there are no words in their sentences about "diverging paths". All for some reason sound there - "enemies of the traitor, bandits and saboteurs."
        Quote: Alexander Green
        They were not judged for past merits, but for subsequent cases.

        Not for the past? And what's that
        Preliminary and judicial investigation found that Berzin since 1918, on the instructions of the enemy of the people of Peters, he systematically supplied English intelligence spy materials

        ? And so it is everywhere.
        You are talking nonsense.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        One must understand the historical processes that took place at that time. All these “heroes” (although they were really heroes at one time) did not fight for socialism, but for bourgeois democracy against the remnants of feudalism, the expression of which was tsarism. That is why when the construction of socialism began in the country, they went over to the side of the class enemy of the proletariat - to the side of the bourgeoisie and world capital.

        The highest, one might say, reference degree of nonsense. good
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Of you, class hatred of workers rushing by the riverbut you have no understanding dialectics of the class struggle, and therefore there is no understanding of why Trotsky, Wacetis and the like became later enemies of the people.

        Do you want me (like some of them) to "flood like a river" lol "understanding the dialectic of the class struggle lol "?
        I think that enough of those already lol "rushing", and dismiss me, sir .. hi
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 19: 14
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Do you want me (like some) to "flood like a river" "understanding of the dialectics of the class struggle

          Well, you see. I told you you won’t understand. With this commentary you once again confirmed your illiteracy, confusing the cause with the effect is the height of illiteracy. "Hatred" is a kind of manifestation of an attitude towards something, and "dialectics" is a method of research and understanding.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 4 September 2018 08: 11
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            I said you won’t understand.

            There is NOTHING to understand request :
            Quote: Alexander Green
            With this comment you have once again confirmed your ignorance, to confuse cause and effect is the height of illiteracy.

            When watered "wisdom" teaches full watered. a loser, it's not even funny, it's just inconvenient for you.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            "Hatred" is a kind of manifestation of an attitude towards something, and "dialectics" is a method of research and understanding.
            And?

            PS so you did not respond to the proposal to act as a joint front FOR removing from the street names the names of the enemies of the people-Dybenko, Krylenko, A-ovseenko and other birch trees with peters. Waiting for an answer! yes
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 4 September 2018 12: 01
              +1
              Olgovich! I am somehow not surprised by your words. But after all, in Ukraine the process is going on without your advice, or is it unknown in the hospital? It's a shame that this happens in other former republics ....
              Or maybe you want to change the name in Russia from the hospital?
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 4 September 2018 17: 16
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              You still did not respond to the proposal to act as a joint front FOR removing from the street names the names of the enemies of the Dybenko, Krylenko, A-Ovseenko and other birch trees with peters. Waiting for an answer!


              That's when we deal with everyone, then we'll talk.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 5 September 2018 08: 08
                -1
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Quote: Olgovich
                You still did not respond to the proposal to act as a joint front FOR removing from the street names the names of the enemies of the Dybenko, Krylenko, A-Ovseenko and other birch trees with peters. Waiting for an answer!


                That's when with each let's figure it outthen we'll talk.

                You don’t remember yourself again! THIS
                they went over to the side of the class enemy of the proletariat - to the side of the bourgeoisie and world capital
                WHO wrote ?! That is, it was just clear to you, but after a couple of minutes, you already need to understand fool lol
                I remind that .Supreme Court The USSR in 1937-38 already understood in detail and with each impeller. The outcome of the Court is an unambiguous bullet.
                Or do you .... doubt the Stalinist justice ?! belay
                It’s, you know, it’s not getting into any gates am
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 5 September 2018 22: 50
                  +2
                  Olgievich, you have a girl’s memory, I also wrote about the fact that in the ranks of the NKVD there were also enemies who fabricated cases against honest people, they were able to deal with many, but not with some. The time will come and real historians, lawyers will figure it out and everyone will be given their due.
  4. BAI
    BAI 2 September 2018 10: 41
    +4
    Yesterday I watched the program "Myths and Legends of the White Movement".
    2 historians:
    Vasily Zhanovich Tsvetkov - Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor, Editor-in-Chief of the White Guard almanac, Associate Professor of Moscow State Pedagogical University. Graduated from Moscow State Pedagogical University, Department of History in 1991.
    и
    Ershov Vitaliy Fedorovich - Director of the Center for Strategy and Analytics of Moscow State Regional University (MGOU) Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor. Honorary Academician of the Adyghe (Circassian) International Academy of Sciences (AMAS).
    (Biographies and titles are presented on the Internet. That is, these people are well-known and respected among professional historians).

    discussed the Civil War. What came to:
    1. 1918 - 1922 is the active phase of the war. The war began in 1917 after the February Revolution ended in the 30s with the end of repression. Repression is the same Civil War.
    2. 70% of the population supported the Reds, 30% - the Whites.
    3. A distinctive feature of the white movement is slurred ideology. We can say that she was not there.
    4. The bulk of the war veterans took up arms not for ideological, but personal (commonplace revenge) reasons.
    5. The reason for the defeat of white:
    the population did not support them;
    the Reds controlled the center of Russia - the place where the main enterprises, mobilization potential and transportation hubs were located;
    White inconsistency. Denikin, formally being the deputy of Kolchak, often acted to the detriment of him.

    In principle, this was all known. I was interested in conclusions 2 and 4. It follows from them that whites were able to annoy a larger number of the Russian population than red ones, which caused their defeat. This is my conclusion - not historians.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 11: 15
      +1
      Keyword-supported!
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 2 September 2018 14: 15
      -6
      Quote: BAI
      1918 - 1922 is the active phase of the war. The war began in 1917 after the February Revolution ended in the 30s with the end of repression. Repression is the same Civil War.

      She went to WWII: a million owls. citizens fought on the other side: this has never happened anywhere. For them, this was a continuation of the GW.
      Repressions, exiles of hundreds of thousands of peasants continued in the years 45-49, as did the relocation of repressed peoples. And when were they allowed to return? And when did you justify it, as much as 1990m? Those. citizen the war practically never ended

      Quote: BAI
      2. 70% of the population supported the Reds, 30% - the Whites.

      It is impossible to calculate this in principle. But, given the overwhelming advantage of the Reds in all material means and opportunities, for so long White could resist the usurpers of power only at the expense of human support
      Quote: BAI
      Reason for White's defeat:
      the population did not support them;

      Nonsense
      Quote: BAI
      the Reds controlled the center of Russia - the place where the main enterprises, mobilization potential and transportation hubs were located;

      Wow, this is one of the main reasons for the defeat of white
      Quote: BAI
      I was interested in conclusions 2 and 4. From them it follows that white managed to annoy a large number of the Russian population

      What revenge if a voluntary draft in the Red Army, announced at the beginning of 1918, fully failed and had to mobilize soldiers from May 1918 under the fear of wild repression of their relatives, and then more than 40% of deserters in the army is an unprecedented number!
      Which, incidentally, is a lot to say: practically ALL the defense leaders of the new government mentioned in the article are shotlike ... traitors and traitors!

      Such is the "support" ... yes
      1. BAI
        BAI 2 September 2018 14: 39
        +6
        That's when you write something like this:
        "Russian military-political emigration in 1920 - 1945: Organizations, ideology, extremism - doctoral dissertation.
        or
        “Formation and evolution of the political course of the White movement in Russia. 1917-1922. " Moscow State Pedagogical University, 2010 - doctoral dissertation.
        Then you can refute the opinion of professional historians. In the meantime, you-no one call - no way.
        1. BAI
          BAI 2 September 2018 14: 58
          +6
          I pressed the wrong button, the site threw it away. I will continue.
          At the expense of the call. From the same program: both white and red took deserters from the opposite side. Moreover, if the Reds took both privates and officers, the whites took only privates, the commanders (especially commissars) were shot immediately (if they fell to the whites).
          Because in the understanding of the two world wars there was no front line (Tsaritsyn and Perekop are exceptions that confirm the rule), then everyone himself chose for whom to fight him.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 3 September 2018 09: 26
            -1
            Quote: BAI
            Because front lines in the understanding of two world wars did not have (Tsaritsyn and Perekop - exceptions confirming the rule), then everyone chose for whom should he fight

            Then you write
            the Reds controlled the center of Russia - the place where the main enterprises, mobilization potential and transportation hubs were located
            , then there were no "fronts" (by the way, a 4th grade textbook to help you yes , section "FRONTS of the Civil War).
            Do you remember yourself? belay No.

            Those who were forcibly mobilized for the Reds had no choice: either you go to serve, and at the same time family and benefits, and what kind of support the soldier does not have, or a bullet for desertion and deprivation for the family and even fellow villagers (for harboring).
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 3 September 2018 12: 32
            +1
            Bullshit, deserters from mobilized military experts quite served themselves with the "whites".
            Some of the favorite stories of the "Reds" and their followers are about how some general-officers who entered the service of the Reds after being captured by the Whites refused to go to their service and were executed or died in prison. Those. even red heroic legends refute the opinion about the "immediate execution" of paints.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 3 September 2018 21: 12
              +2
              The example of Brusilov's paint does not convince? And not just him.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 4 September 2018 11: 24
                0
                Convincing, yeah. And you read his memoirs, the part that was not published in the USSR.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 4 September 2018 17: 49
                  +2
                  What memoirs?! From the next world?! I mean the son of General Brusilov, who fought on the side of the Reds, who was captured by the Whites and shot by them.
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 4 September 2018 18: 06
                    -1
                    And according to other sources, he still fought on the White’s side after that.
        2. Karenius
          Karenius 2 September 2018 22: 31
          -2
          It is not a fact that the doctoral dissertation drew the right conclusions. Anything is found in "science."
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 September 2018 09: 13
          -2
          Quote: BAI
          That's when you write something like this:
          "Russian military-political emigration in 1920 - 1945: Organizations, ideology, extremism - doctoral dissertation.
          or
          “Formation and evolution of the political course of the White movement in Russia. 1917-1922. " Moscow State Pedagogical University, 2010 That's when you can refute the opinion of professional historians

          1. I can refute everything that I wish, today is not your power.
          2. Which of the above you coincide with the really said is a big question.
          Quote: BAI
          In the meantime, you are no one to call - no way.

          I am the most chief man for historians: it is FOR ME (and millions of people like me) that they work. yes
          If you think that an unwritten dissertation is "no one can call it"then be
          Quote: BAI
          You are no one to call - no way.

          lol
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 2 September 2018 14: 54
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        She went to WWII: a million owls. citizens fought on the other side: this has never happened anywhere. For them, this was a continuation of the GW.

        In France in World War II, a significant part of the French fought in the ranks of the German army, why do not you write that for them it was also a civil war?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 September 2018 09: 18
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          In France in World War II, a significant part of the French fought in the ranks of the German army, why do not you write that for them it was also a civil war?

          By virtue of elementary literacy (I also advise you to it): the French in the German army not fought against the French (France) ..
          If again it is not clear, then finally learn such a concept as "Civil War" yes
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 19: 42
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            By virtue of elementary literacy (I advise you to it): the French in the German army did not fight against the French (France) ..
            If again it is not clear, then finally learn such a concept as "Civil War"


            This is what you say in vain, from the French even the term special around the world went to collaborators.
            In the summer of 1941, the Legion of French volunteers was created to serve the German army, even in the SS troops. In addition, the French served in the aviation and navy. The total number of the legion is 1. It included special units (militia-police), which were used both on the eastern front and in France itself. From October 700 to August 000, a real civil war was waged between the French resistance and the French police. The French were also part of the Bradenburg division, which was also noted in the struggle against the French partisans in the area of ​​Vercourt.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 September 2018 08: 53
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              In the summer of 1941, the Legion of French volunteers was created to serve the German army, even in the SS troops. In addition, the French served in the aviation and navy. The total number of legion is 1 700 000

              belay fool lol Legion 7 thousand people is a regiment.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              It included special units (militia-police), which were used both on the eastern front and in France itself.

              Lying again: the regiment’s battlefield
              The Second World War
              Operation Barbarossa
              Battle for Moscow
              Anti-partisan actions in Belarus (1942-1944)
              Quote: Alexander Green
              From October 1943 to August 1944, a real civil war was waged between the French resistance and the French police

              Don't you remember yourself again? You talked
              o a significant part of the French fought in the ranks German army. , why don’t you write that for them it was also a civil war?

              As shown to you, the French were in Germany. Army-NOT fought against France.
              As for the police, she ALWAYS fights with gangsters (which were considered the resistance), and in peacetime too.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 4 September 2018 18: 34
                +2
                Olgievich.
                Well, you give-e-those! The struggle of the French people against fascism and, in particular, against their collaborators, is called the struggle of bandits. This does not go into any gates. You still accuse De Gaulle of treason that he did not obey Pétain and, together with the British, began to liberate France. And you still have the conscience to write to the Swordsman, about ward number 6.

                Remember, or how you all recommend “cut a knot on the nose”: Collaboration in French means “cooperation”, this term was coined by Marshal Petain, who called on the French in every possible way to assist the enemy, which could not be called betrayal.

                In the legal interpretation of international law, collaboration means conscious, voluntary and intentional cooperation with the enemy in his interests, and to the detriment of his state.

                And finally, understand the difference between the French Legion of Combatants (Légion française des combattants), which already in 1940 included about 900 thousand members (in total there were about 1700 000), from the legion as a military unit.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 September 2018 08: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Well, you give-e-those! The struggle of the French people against fascism and in particular with their collaborators collaborators call the bandits fight.

                  IN RUSSIAN read written learn-and such associations do not arise
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Remember, or how you all recommend “cut a knot on the nose”: Collaboration in French means “cooperation”, this term was coined by Marshal Petain, who called on the French in every possible way to assist the enemy, which could not be called betrayal.

                  In the legal interpretation of international law, collaboration means conscious, voluntary and intentional cooperation with the enemy in his interests, and to the detriment of his state.

                  Yes, yes ... What did you want to say? fool request
                  ONCE AGAIN: WHERE did the French of the German army fight with France, as you claimed, "pulling" the situation onto the Eastern Front?
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And finally, understand the difference between the French Legion of Combatants (Légion française des combattants), which already in 1940 included about 900 thousand members (in total there were about 1700 000), from the legion as a military unit

                  1. Again I urge you to write in RUSSIAN: this is who wrote:
                  In the summer 1941 year was created Legion of French Volunteers for service German army

                  A Legion of Combatants (1940, not 41st) NO aboutI did not enter the German army at once and did not serve in it, being, basically, a veteran organization of the French.
                  Again you froze the bullshit from the beginning, confusing one Legion with another, and now you are banging your head lol
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 5 September 2018 22: 52
                    +1
                    No, dear, it is you who bother and distort and defend the French collaborators.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 2 September 2018 18: 52
      -2
      BAI You are completely right. And historians are right. Everything was decided by Lenin's decree on land ... Eh, you should read my novel "Pareto's Law". Everything about it is written there, as in the textbook!
    4. Gopnik
      Gopnik 3 September 2018 12: 36
      0
      Quote: BAI
      70% of the population supported the Reds, 30% - the Whites.


      I wonder how they calculated it. In principle, if we proceed from the fact that the "whites" really took the position of "non-determination", and the Reds acted on the principle of their current followers-Russophobes "We give any promises to the scum, we will hang them later" it is quite possible - fools who believe in fairy tales and populist there are always more promises than thinking people
  5. Conductor
    Conductor 2 September 2018 11: 33
    0
    Mauzh army work to create for pre-retirement and retirement age.?
  6. RUSS
    RUSS 2 September 2018 15: 10
    +1
    Quote: Phil77
    So you don’t believe in traditional allies?

    No I do not believe.
    And who are these traditional allies?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 16: 25
      +3
      How do you not know?! Beginning in the second half of the 19th century: England-USA, England-France, Germany-Turkey (with a creak, but together), well, sweet Japan-Germany, too little? I almost always forgot together England-Canada , England-Australia. But here are their legal subtleties, the country, as it were, under the patronage of England.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 2 September 2018 16: 56
        0
        Quote: Phil77
        How do you not know?! Beginning in the second half of the 19th century: England-USA, England-France, Germany-Turkey (with a creak, but together), well, sweet Japan-Germany, too little? I almost always forgot together England-Canada , England-Australia. But here are their legal subtleties, the country, as it were, under the patronage of England.

        As I said earlier, these are all temporary unions "marriage of convenience".
        The same Cuba was our ally because we had to crawl closer to the United States, but Cuba is an ally with an interference, rather Fidel was an ally, there is no Fidel and that’s it.
        An example with Tito, it was necessary, together with the Germans from the Balkans, to knock out all the allies, all brothers, and already in the 48th Tito "sent" Stalin, creating the Non-Aligned Movement.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 2 September 2018 17: 07
          +1
          The example of Cuba is absolutely not correct. we were allies because this country chose the social path of development, the example of Yugoslavia leaves a field for controversy. Here circumstances just intervened, such as finding a scythe on a stone. The clash of two very strong, charismatic leaders. And who would know if it weren’t for this conflict, maybe the south and live in a single country?
          1. ver_
            ver_ 6 September 2018 18: 30
            -2
            ..Fidel never strove for socialism - it was his brother who supported this idea .., Fidel needed * grandmas * ...
      2. Gopnik
        Gopnik 3 September 2018 12: 43
        -2
        You write nonsense. England and the United States were rather traditional rivals at that time, England and France also had a lot of problems, see, for example, the "Fashoda crisis", in Turkey there was a strong British influence (as opposed to the German one), well, Japan and Germany as "traditional allies since the end of the 19th century is strong, apparently the participation of Japan in WWI on the side of the Entente passed you by.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 3 September 2018 20: 30
          +1
          Do you know the concept of rival friends? That’s exactly what characterizes all the countries I have mentioned.
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 2 September 2018 18: 45
    -3
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Of you, class hatred for working people rushing by the river

    It painfully stinks of cheap tobacco, cheap vodka (fumes), stale cowards, and God knows what else ... Even now! And how do women sleep with them? Although what women they have ... women! Therefore, we are not on the road with them. They’ll stop stinking ... then ... you look ...
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 19: 34
      +2
      Yeah, however. What weighty arguments did you bring. Absolutely everything outweighed.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 19: 56
      +3
      Vyacheslav, do you really think so of all working people, or is this a kind of unsuccessful joke?!?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 2 September 2018 20: 41
        -5
        Not about everyone, of course. I know two well. One welder, with an engineering background, but a welder was more profitable. He also has a company that sells electrodes to the company at which he cooks. Cool, yeah? The second driver of the 50-ton crane. The son of a loader. Fiercely hates the Communists and asks me all why no one will blow up the bust of the mustache ghoul in Penza. The rest are just the ones that stink. Almost everything!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 2 September 2018 21: 00
          +1
          But you must admit it is too, too few to draw such conclusions. You too have journalists for what to say, not to respect, but to blame in bulk ... This is beyond.
          1. Karenius
            Karenius 2 September 2018 21: 36
            0
            Quote: Phil77
            But you must admit it is too, too few to draw such conclusions. You too have journalists for what to say, not to respect, but to blame in bulk ... This is beyond.

            I agree with Phil.
    3. Moskovit
      Moskovit 3 September 2018 09: 18
      +1
      Therefore, for the Reds, there were 70% of the population. For many hundreds of years people have been told that it stinks from them, then they are illiterate, then laponniks, then their origin is not that. Tired of 1917.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. kalibr
    kalibr 2 September 2018 20: 46
    -1
    Quote: Karenius
    the pickaxe will tell.

    Why so cool? And who will click on such articles and comments and increase the investment attractiveness of the site, that is, work for you and me? Let it continue to work!
  10. kalibr
    kalibr 2 September 2018 20: 50
    -2
    Phil77,
    Phil77,
    I was born in 1954 year. And on mediocrity and boorish enough seen enough ...
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 2 September 2018 21: 15
      +1
      Lord, where are they not ??! In our country there are no more of them than in the rest of the world. Will you argue?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 2 September 2018 21: 36
        -4
        No, I will not! The mediocrities in the world are biologically the same everywhere! In social terms, here and there there are more of them, because there was a place where they were told that they were hegemons. So they really imagined themselves ...
  11. kalibr
    kalibr 2 September 2018 21: 33
    -1
    Quote: Phil77
    You, too, have journalists for what to say, not to respect, but to blame in bulk.

    Why crowd? 80% of journalists cannot write, as well as 80% of "writers", and so on. it was not proved by me and long ago. People who know how to do their job well are rare. For example, in the Armed Forces, 80% of instructors are “teachers”. I know very well, I spent 36 years in the army! So there is no need to blame en masse. Write - 80% of journalists exist ... and I agree with you!
  12. kalibr
    kalibr 3 September 2018 10: 28
    -2
    Quote: The Swordsman
    But they didn’t see what it was — neither a school, nor a first-aid post, nor a palace to a cult, they saw nothing ..

    I saw why not. But the quality was below the plinth.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 3 September 2018 20: 11
      +4
      And you know, Vyacheslav, thank you! Now thanks again to you, I understood why the Bolsheviks won the civil war and why most of our people followed them. Nobody would have followed you with your undisguised and unjustified snobbery. ? on health. Yes, as Comrade Green wrote, write me up!
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 4 September 2018 18: 35
        -2
        Now you still have to understand why they lost the world in the 1991 year and it will be very good!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 4 September 2018 19: 09
          +2
          Peace?!? Really? Lose and be betrayed different things, devotees such as Yakovlev, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze and others. Anointed.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 3 September 2018 20: 24
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: The Swordsman
      But they didn’t see what it was — neither a school, nor a first-aid post, nor a palace to a cult, they saw nothing ..

      I saw why not. But the quality was below the plinth.
      Probably, the quality simply corresponded to that time and place, to those technologies. Time has changed, quality has changed. I remember that until 2006 the walls were covered with coffee oil paint and iron chairs. And now ---- panels, lilac sofas, eco-leather, electronic recording and electronic queue. And much more .... And in the area, too.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 September 2018 20: 41
        +2
        And they apparently do not go to district hospitals, it stinks there, Probably assigned to the departmental!
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 3 September 2018 21: 05
        +1
        In my opinion, all this is useless, a journalist and a writer, clearly set up only for the negative! One can imagine how hard it is for him to live in our country.
  13. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 3 September 2018 19: 54
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Of you, class hatred for working people rushing by the river
    It painfully stinks of cheap tobacco, cheap vodka (fumes), stale cowards, and God knows what else ... Even now! And how do women sleep with them? Although what women they have ... women! Therefore, we are not on the road with them. They’ll stop stinking ... then ... you look ...

    I didn’t write about it, you are not capable of it, you have not class hatred, but an ordinary intellectual arrogance.
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 3 September 2018 21: 43
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Green
      you do not have class hatred, but an ordinary intellectual arrogance.

      This is called a little differently. This is ordinary, intelligent social Darwinism!
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. kalibr
    kalibr 4 September 2018 18: 29
    -2
    Quote: Phil77
    And you know, Vyacheslav, thank you! Now thanks again to you, I understood why the Bolsheviks won the civil war and why most of our people followed them. Nobody would have followed you with your undisguised and unjustified snobbery. ? on health. Yes, as Comrade Green wrote, write me up!

    But now only marginalized people will follow them, and according to my textbooks, students from all over Russia have been studying for many years and accept good science!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 4 September 2018 19: 13
      +1
      And of course you have already ranked yourself as an elite? You are not an elite with a similar attitude towards people.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 4 September 2018 22: 41
        -2
        You are simply ignorant in this matter. Both I and you, if you have a higher education, belong to the non-governing elite, of course, to its different strata. Now, if you do not have it, then yes - not the elite. And there is also a governing elite that has a lot of money and power. We do not belong to it, that's for sure. Have you studied sociology in the sun? There it is ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 5 September 2018 05: 56
          +1
          Studied, studied. Only life experience says that higher education is not a pass to the mind. It is or vice versa! I have the honor!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 6 September 2018 08: 41
            +3
            Quote: Phil77
            Studied, studied. Only life experience says that higher education is not a pass to the mind. It is or vice versa! I have the honor!

            In this case, probably, Vyacheslav believes that the main thing is to be Ph.D. Only here it is not clear that:
            1. He does not respect the country that made it possible to obtain higher education and defend himself. Over her death ---- gloating
            2. did not receive any other education and academic degree under capitalism
            3.Reminds that HE is a candidate of historical sciences, expresses distrust of the ranks and abilities of others, for example, a professor ...
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 6 September 2018 08: 30
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      .... and according to my textbooks, students all over Russia have been studying for many years and accept good science!
      It is all the more strange and incomprehensible that you left teaching. After all, teachers of higher education toooooooo old work. And there was even an article that if a teacher works, then they live longer, as, however, this applies to doctors. Well, some more professions
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 6 September 2018 11: 09
        -1
        Dmitry, do not meddle in what you do not know at all. Until a very old age, either "teachers" work in the Armed Forces, who simply have nothing else to do, and academics, who are paid for all their past merits. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Very. It's normal to always look for a place where you feel better. For example, I have always strived to do only what I like and to have fewer bosses. And now this time has come. And why should I then work in the Armed Forces? I just wrote a new master's textbook in public opinion management. This is one of the ways to live longer. And a few more books are on the way - just write. So the stupor of the brain does not threaten me! Do not worry.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 6 September 2018 11: 51
          +2
          Why do you teach me, Vyacheslav Olegovich? Type do not meddle? After all, conversations about your person are a consequence of the open space of a media personality. By providing this, as well as other previous information about yourself, for everyone --- you created the opportunity for questions yourself. But now you don’t want to ask these questions or conversations. After all, you start talking about yourself, how many comments you have devoted to yourself, and how I asked ---- do not meddle ???
          There are Authors who go out in the comments and do not report anything about themselves, there are no personal questions to them
          . At the same time, there is a desire for self-promotion. Until the evening.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 6 September 2018 19: 54
            +1
            I guessed why, when I considered everything again !!!!! I think over the words, maybe I'll write.
  16. kalibr
    kalibr 4 September 2018 18: 33
    -3
    Quote: Phil77
    You can imagine how hard it is for him to live in our country.

    On the contrary, very good. When you know people, you turn them like puppets and you don’t need to strain. I just just put out the next textbook on managing public opinion for masters. So ... a summer vacation in Europe is guaranteed for me next year, but you ... Oh, you won’t lose either, I promise a lot of new and interesting articles!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 4 September 2018 19: 16
      +2
      And why not stay there, on the issue of the fee did not agree with the owners? Oh, you are the ruler of souls.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 4 September 2018 22: 38
        -2
        Why stay there when I'm used to living well here? It is ridiculous to strain when everything here can be done the same without much difficulty? Life is given to a person once and it is necessary to live it with benefit and interest. By the way, I would be interested in your place, but what kind of textbook is this, are there any others and I would read them. Smarter you would surely become!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 5 September 2018 05: 54
          +2
          God is your judge, as he knows everyone accepts. There is a place for you.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 5 September 2018 17: 50
            -3
            That's it, and since I'm on the side of God, then God is on my side!
            1. Sweetheart
              Sweetheart 5 September 2018 17: 57
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              That's it, and since I'm on the side of God, then God is on my side!

              on the buckles of the Nazi soldiers the same thing was written-God is with us, it turned out that Damn, so with you ....
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 6 September 2018 10: 52
                -3
                You can write anything. It is important how HE displayed his will. There was Nazi Germany and it was not, despite all their buckles. So it’s not a matter of buckles and your example is not good!
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 6 September 2018 12: 13
                  +3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  You can write anything. It is important how HE displayed his will. There was Nazi Germany and it was not, despite all their buckles. So it’s not a matter of buckles and your example is not good!
                  His will is fulfilled by the one to whom He gave strength and reason and the right to do so.
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 6 September 2018 17: 14
                    -4
                    That's right, and the one to whom he gave it "made the USSR" in the 91st ...
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 6 September 2018 19: 49
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      That's right, and the one to whom he gave it "made the USSR" in the 91st ...
                      HOW do you see, Vyacheslav, preparations for the USSR were sooooo long before. 1917. That was in line. The coup came about. And it is in line. And all that was, years before 1967 ~~~~, probably, corresponded.
                      And then, after, it turned out --- what not ????
                      The life of the little men is short. But this project is not crossed out.
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 6 September 2018 18: 52
                  +3
                  I didn’t want to write to you anymore, but I’ll answer so.Nazi Germany broke the ridge not with buckles with the inscription, but with the heroism of the Soviet Soldier from the people so despised by you because he doesn’t stink and sleep with women, with women. that elite to which you ranked yourself ?!
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 7 September 2018 18: 36
                    -4
                    Obviously there are women and there are women. There are men and there are men. And not I ranked myself among the elite, but ... sociology, which you just poorly taught in the Armed Forces. Alas! This is not your problem. You still write to me here "All people are brothers!" Here I am laughing!
                    1. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 7 September 2018 19: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      a ... sociology

                      If you, like a certain Tsipko.mnee yourself as an elite. Then you praise yourself too much, there is nothing elitist about you except for the inveterate betrayal.
                      why so. explained here.
                      “Contrary to the opinion of Tsipko and such (Shpakovskys) as he, old Russia was not killed by“ Leninist-Stalinist communism. ”The autocratic system, as Solonevich correctly noted, rotted away, but was finished off, as Dostoevsky predicted, by the liberals-Februaryists. historical Russia, it is the Bolsheviks, it is no coincidence that almost half of the generals and officers went to serve in the Red Army. The fact that the USSR was historical Russia is clear even to such a Russophobe and Sovietophobe as Brzezinski. In one of his interviews (Le Nouvel Observateur magazine) to the question that the United States fought against communism, he replied: do not fool yourself and others with our heads - we fought with Russia, whatever its name. By the way, it is not clear to our half-educated people that back in 1960 Brzezinski refused to apply the term “totalitarianism” to Soviet society (I am not talking about the fundamental unscientific nature of this term). "
                      http://zavtra.ru/blogs/virodki-ubijtci
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Here I laugh!

                      laugh, you put on the wrong horse and you have an end, like a mediocre tsipko will have one.
                      “The role of a battering ram was played by anti-Stalinism. Yakovlev, for whom Tsipko worked as an assistant, said in one of his later interviews that first they planned to hit Lenin on Stalin, then Plekhanov on Lenin, and then on communism, identifying him with totalitarianism. all of this was logically followed by a blow to Russia as a supposedly eternally totalitarian, eternally unfree country.As the same Yakovlev frankly expressed in one of his interviews, they (perestroika) by their perestroika were breaking not only communism, but also the entire thousand-year paradigm of Russia's development. the dream of all enemies of Russia in the West and local smerdyakovs. "
                      clearly stated. about you and your dubious "elitism", to be an analogue of smerdyakov, comme il faut ..
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 4 September 2018 19: 26
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      On the contrary, very good. When you know people, you turn them like puppets and you don’t need to strain.

      You only think that you are turning it over, but in fact they are turning you around. Whoever pays you, you serve him.
  17. kalibr
    kalibr 4 September 2018 22: 36
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Whoever pays you, you serve him.

    That's it, and twirl, however, I am. Twirling is also worth the money!
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 5 September 2018 22: 55
      0
      Caliber.
      Malchish-Plohish also thought so when he ate a jar of jam and a box of cookies.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 6 September 2018 10: 46
        -3
        So he was not a PR man! A rural boy from a poor village. But the pirates have a different motto: there is no such disgrace from which a real PR specialist would not cut off chunks of ham!
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 6 September 2018 23: 01
          0
          Yes, but they have one essence. Either you eat jam and quietly rejoice, or eat jam and shout to the whole district, the jam does not become tastier from this.
  18. kalibr
    kalibr 5 September 2018 17: 55
    -4
    Quote: Phil77
    that higher education is not a pass to the mind

    But a pass to the non-governing elite. To the bottom. And there it all depends on you. You can get into the manager. There Putin, having a higher education ... wanted to become a driver, but got out for president.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 6 September 2018 03: 02
      +1
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, think again, your theory is absolutely positive, first of all for yourself. At one time, Alexander Green explained that you somehow simplify the Pareto law, I can’t repeat the arguments to it. But there are books on the network about the application in mathematics.
      And the elite figures are completely different. And all over the world. In all countries, 1-2% of the population own 90-99% of the wealth of each country. And higher education has nothing to do with it. Rather, showmen (showmen) and sportsmen will fall into the elite.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 6 September 2018 10: 43
        -3
        You first master the university, and then teach me what is false and what is not. And what Green explains is that it suits people like you, but not for me. There is such a journal "Questions of Sociology" ... Read on, maybe you will understand something. But I will repeat once more: there is a ruling elite. Yes - 1-2%. There is a non-governing elite - about 20%. And there are "workers" - 80%. But they are all stratigraphic in different ways. Is that understandable?
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 6 September 2018 11: 02
          +2
          What are you saying, Vyacheslav Olegovich! In no way do I teach you, as well as anyone else. It’s just that I’ve talked about some naivety beyond my years. Or maybe this desire to wear pink glasses. sometimes.......
          And you have repeatedly said that the Soviet education was not very good, and they laughed at the country and the CPSU, but for yourself you consider this education to be a value.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 6 September 2018 17: 10
            -3
            Dmitry, brain, turn on the brain !!! After 1991, I did not teach the history of the CPSU for many years, engaged in self-education. And ... 911 articles only in VO do not say anything to you, as well as books published after the 91 year, and they ... 36. And what about Soviet education? Yes, this is a good academic foundation, but it's like a cradle. And in the cradle, even a good one, an adult cannot live! Am I setting out? And now I more than clearly see both the strengths of what was and the weaknesses. There were more of the latter!
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 6 September 2018 19: 38
              +2
              This confirms the high quality of Soviet education. After all, neither courses at Harvard or Oxford, nor other titles were added to the Soviet university and Soviet kin ---- all at the expense of the USSR
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 6 September 2018 22: 49
              +2
              It would be logical for Caliber to refuse a Ph.D. diploma and an associate professor’s certificate obtained in Soviet times
            3. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 7 September 2018 21: 45
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              .. self-education ...... 911 articles only in HE ...... And where is Soviet education? Yes, this is a good academic foundation, but it's like a cradle. And in the cradle, even a good one, an adult cannot live! Am I setting out? !

              That's what I remembered - a conversation about a small number of hours a week, I forgot, either 2, or 3 ... This explained the number of articles. And what does self-education have to do with it? Do you often scoff at the self-education of others, but do you praise yours? There should be a document, not stories. How can you be proud of the document of the country you are mocking at.
              I once recalled that the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR. Yes, I see ----- this is unknown.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 10 September 2018 12: 59
                0
                Dmitry, do not know do not write !!! Every five years, an aircraft employee undergoes further training and receives an appropriate diploma.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 11 September 2018 19: 49
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Dmitry, do not know do not write !!! Every five years, an employee of the aircraft .......

                  This is probably about those who do not know that the Russian Federation ---- is the legal successor of the USSR.
                  Thus, all who work until late, pass these exams, at least 80 years old ???. I did not speak with teachers on this subject and did not know.
                  But I know about health workers. Though doctors, even sisters. Yes, they do it once every 5 years, before that they must improve their qualifications, learning at the expense of the company. But not always, not always, the company will take care of this! Sometimes ----- strongly opposed. This is a sign of leaving the health worker of his own free will
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 6 September 2018 22: 59
          +2
          The strata were invented by bourgeois ideologists to veil the class struggle. But the classics of Marxism teach us that there is a class of proletarians and a class of the bourgeoisie with completely different class interests.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 7 September 2018 14: 46
            -2
            At the dustbin of history are your classics of Marxism. And from the proletariat there are horns and legs ...
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 7 September 2018 19: 40
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              At the dustbin of history are your classics of Marxism. And from the proletariat there are horns and legs ...

              And this is written by a historian-raster from the CPSU. Follow the public opinion, interest in the classics is growing by leaps and bounds, and now the proletariat is now more than in 1917.
        3. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 7 September 2018 06: 57
          +3
          The path to the non-governing elite for those who have money is only by acquaintance, at least how many entities will not help. Or through the scandal. Or showbiz.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 7 September 2018 14: 45
            -3
            You, Dmitry, did not understand anything. However, it is not surprising. Do not feed the horse.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 7 September 2018 20: 09
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              You, Dmitry, did not understand anything.
              And why read and think about someone else's lies and mistakes and look for some meaning in them?
              Then --- goodbye!
  19. Phil77
    Phil77 5 September 2018 18: 21
    0
    Olgovich,
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: Phil77
    Olgovich, good evening! And let me ask you a little provocative question? If you happen to face the choice during the Great Patriotic War. Two options: on the side of the Russian patriot Denikin, or on the side of the same patriots Krasnov, Shkuro, well, Vlasov touch We won’t. So your answer.

    The answer is simple: he would join the ranks of the Red Army, which is at war with the invaders. It could not be otherwise: it is not the authorities that defend, but the Motherland.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 6 September 2018 09: 12
      +1
      OLGOVICH !!!!!
      Quote: Phil77
      Olgovich,
      Quote: Olgovich
      Quote: Phil77
      Olgovich, good evening! And let me ask you a little provocative question? If you happen to face the choice during the Great Patriotic War. Two options: on the side of the Russian patriot Denikin, or on the side of the same patriots Krasnov, Shkuro, well, Vlasov touch We won’t. So your answer.

      The answer is simple: he would join the ranks of the Red Army, which is at war with the invaders. It could not be otherwise: it is not the authorities that defend, but the Motherland.
      Phil wrote good words to you below and I am also glad to hear from you!
      How happy when you printed the Soviet poster.
      In fact, your comment is even better than you might think at first. After all, with this comment you have confirmed that the White Guards did not love the Motherland, but the power!
  20. Phil77
    Phil77 5 September 2018 18: 32
    0
    Olgovich,
    Good evening, Olgovich! Although we are opponents, we look at the history of Russia in different ways. I am grateful for your answer, we cannot act differently in the face of an external enemy. But we will argue with you!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 7 September 2018 06: 33
      0
      Still, I hope, Olgovich, come to his senses,
  21. Sweetheart
    Sweetheart 7 September 2018 16: 54
    +2
    Olgovich,
    Olgovich, you would not have joined the ranks of the Red Army. Do not deceive yourself or others. Your worldview is too Russophobic — your place would be in the ROA, at worst the headman ..
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 9 September 2018 21: 30
      -2
      Quote: Phil77
      why did most of our people follow them

      Are you Jewish?