Instead of a thousand warheads: Will the Bulava save Russia?

45
Russia vs America

About the "new Cold War" did not write, probably only very lazy. In fact, it is naive to believe that Russia and the United States will be measured by their nuclear arsenals, as it was half a century ago. The capabilities of countries are fundamentally different: this is clearly seen from the military budgets. According to the Stockholm World Research Institute, for the 2017 year the US defense budget amounted to 610 billion dollars, while Russia - 66 billion. This difference, in general, affects the tactical potential of the armed forces more than the strategic one. Nevertheless, the American nuclear shield, as a whole, seems to be more modern and, more importantly, more protected.

Recall that the basis of the US nuclear triad are solid propellant ballistic missile submarines (SLBMs) ​​UGM-133A Trident II (D5). They are based on fourteen strategic Ohio-type submarines. Four more boats were converted by Americans under the carriers of cruise missiles. Each of the Ohio strategic boats carries 24 ballistic missiles: no other submarine in the world can boast such an impressive arsenal, and no other SLBMs have as many features as the Trident II (D5). However, the Americans have their own difficulties. The Ohio itself is far from a third-generation submarine (now, we recall, both the United States and Russia are already in full exploitation of the fourth). Ideally, these boats need to be changed, but so far there is nothing trivial. The project "Columbia" stalled.



In principle, for a guaranteed retaliatory strike, Russia would have enough land-based nuclear and mine-based nuclear complexes. However, with all the advantages of existing systems, such systems are more vulnerable than strategic submarines. In part, this is the reason for the return to the now canceled “nuclear train”, which received the designation “Barguzin”, which, by the way, also had conceptual flaws related to vulnerability. In general, there is nothing more tempting than having an invisible and silent nuclear arsenal in a nuclear triad, which, moreover, will be able to change its location.



Old boats, old difficulties

The problem for Russia lies in the fact that the existing submarines of the second and third generations of the 667BDRM Dolphin project are morally obsolete. The fact that China built its 094 “Jin” boats with an eye to the Soviet shipbuilding school says nothing. Or rather, he says, but only that the Celestial Empire did not have any other technologies (say, American). "Dolphin" - not the lowest noise submarine. It is believed that the old American boat of the Los Angeles type discovers a submarine of the 667BDRM project in the Barents Sea at a distance of up to 30 kilometers. It must be assumed that for Virginia and Sivulf this indicator will be even better.

This is not the only problem. Each submarine of the 667BDRM project carries sixteen R-29RMU2 “Sineva” missiles. For all their advantages, the use of liquid rockets is fraught with a number of risks, in comparison with solid-fuel missiles, such as the already mentioned Trident II (D5). For maintenance of liquid-fuel rockets need a lot of equipment that increases the noise of the submarine. And working with toxic components of fuel increases the risk of an accident, which can turn into a tragedy of almost global proportions. Recall that it was the depressurization of the missile tanks that led to the death of the K-219 submarine.



Salvation - in the Bulava.

In this sense, the solid-fuel Bulava, which, as we know, is inferior to the American Trident in terms of the airborne mass and has a number of technical problems, is still seen as a much better option than old rockets, even if they have been modernized. The Bulava has a range of up to 11 thousands of kilometers, a starting mass of 36,8 tons, and a drop mass of up to 1,15 tons. The rocket is capable of carrying six warheads of individual guidance. For comparison, the “Trident II (D5)” thrown weight is 2800 kg.

Why such a big difference in performance? As stated in his time by the Chief Designer of Topol and Bulava, Yuri Solomonov, a decrease in the payload of the rocket is associated with an increase in its survivability, including a low active flight segment, when the rocket propulsion engine is working and it can be well observed and destroyed in the early stage. “In Topol-M, and in Bulava, the active site is smaller in 3 - 4 times compared to domestic missiles, and compared to American, French, and Chinese missiles - in 1,5 — 2 times,” Solomonov said.



There is, however, a more trivial reason - the banal lack of funds for a more powerful rocket. It was not for nothing that in the Soviet years, Borei wanted to equip with a special version of the solid-fuel P-39, which had a comparable mass to the Trident and the total mass of the combat units, far exceeding those of the Bulava.

Recall, by the way, that each new Borey submarine must carry sixteen P-30 Bulava missiles. In total, there are three boats in service now, and while maintaining the pace of construction, they will be a completely equivalent replacement for the “Dolphins” and also the heavy “Sharks” of the 941 project, which de facto have already sunk into oblivion (only one such boat is currently in operation converted to "Bulava").



But the main problem of the “Bulava” is considered not a small mass to be thrown or a relatively small destructive effect, but a high percentage of unsuccessful launches. In total, 2005 carried out over 30 test launches, of which seven were considered unsuccessful, although many experts focused on many partially successful launches. However, even with the novelty of a high percentage of failures can not be called something unique. Thus, the aforementioned P-39 of the first 17 launches failed more than half, but this did not put its adoption, nor, in general, normal operation. If it were not for the collapse of the USSR, the rocket could theoretically serve for more than one decade. A "Mace", most likely, would not have appeared.

If you try to summarize what has been said, the plans to urgently look for a replacement for the P-30 look too harsh and unnecessary. Recall that in June 2018 of the year it was reported that the missile was still adopted. And in May of this year, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation showed unique shots of preparation for the launch and simultaneous launch of four P-30 “Bulava” ballistic missiles. It is unlikely that one or the other would be possible if the rocket was “raw”, inefficient or so unsuccessful purely conceptually that it could not be talked about its use.

Obviously, the Bulava will become the basis of the naval component of the Russian nuclear triad, at least in the coming decades. At the same time, various “childhood diseases” will be gradually eliminated, inherent, in principle, to any new technology, especially so complex. At the same time, the ground component of the nuclear triad of the Russian Federation will remain its basis in the foreseeable future. That only cost efforts aimed at the projects "Petrel" and "Avangard".
45 comments
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  1. +24
    27 August 2018 06: 06
    Whoever has studied rocket science a lot ... after reading this article they will laugh a lot. Blah blah ... Sineva is difficult and dangerous, but the Mace ... in the pictures is one thing ... in practice ... it is not easier. There are difficulties in the operation of solid fuel systems, and if experience has been accumulated with Blue and everything has been worked out, then the Mace is not known. If during the manufacture of Sineva a quality control system was developed ... then the mace goes every product, like an experienced ... chemistry, in a word. Of course, both Sineva and Mace projects have a right to exist. But the Mace at the moment ... this is raw material ... given the silence on this topic, you can assume anything.
    1. jjj
      0
      27 August 2018 11: 23
      "Sineva" is also outdated. "Liner" now
  2. +22
    27 August 2018 06: 40
    Only I noticed that at 6:35 am Minsk time, Trident throws 2800 TONS (tons, Karl, not a kilogram !!!) of useful mass? belay what
    Authors with editors, please be careful, you are read not only by a population with brains capable of thinking, but also victims of the exam, who can literally interpret all erroneous data
    This, by the way, is about the effect of errors and descriptions on the development of society as a whole and on the evidence base in disputes in particular hi
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        27 August 2018 20: 22
        Quote: Rum
        And many would have read for * tons *, even they wouldn’t have noticed ... This is not HER ...... it’s URGENT sitting on a couch with a beer belly who read another *.!. * And who writes nonsense thinks (and by the way, has full already right, because such as he is the majority on the site) that now he is a specialist ....

        Does this smell like an insult, huh? wink
    2. +1
      27 August 2018 10: 09
      Still, probably a kilogram
  3. +11
    27 August 2018 07: 58
    Especially for the author of the article. Ilya, 2800 tons, is the weight of a full-fledged freight railway 50-wagon train. Cramming into a boat, even an atomic one, the contents of the train is something.
  4. +3
    27 August 2018 08: 24
    Quote author:
    they will become a completely equivalent replacement for the Dolphins, as well as the heavy Sharks 941 projectwhich de facto have sunk into oblivion (now only one such boat is in operation, its converted under the "Mace").
    From what has been said, it follows that one boat of pr.941 is a full-fledged combat unit?
    1. +5
      27 August 2018 12: 16
      Quote: zyablik.olga
      From what has been said, it follows that one boat of pr.941 is a full-fledged combat unit?

      No, it’s not - they converted one mine
  5. +5
    27 August 2018 08: 58
    I don’t understand why it is suddenly such deferambs in general, then a rather ordinary rocket in the design of which a bunch of dibs were cut. Not only was MIT taken away from Makeev Design Bureau and they themselves with a squeak (up to demotivators on social networks) completed the product, and they’ll also eliminate childhood diseases for decades. Solomonov for such work is high time in Magadan for permanent residence. They did not make sea missiles and did not have to start.
    "There is, however, a more trivial reason - the banal lack of funds for a more powerful missile. It was not for nothing that in the Soviet years they wanted to equip Borei with a special version of the solid-propellant R-39"
    - what such means? The rocket was practically developed. The development was simply removed to the shelf and the MIT was given to make the Bulava when Solomonov said that he would "put the Poplar into the submarine."
    1. +1
      27 August 2018 15: 11
      Quote: DenZ
      Not only was MIT taken away from Makeev Design Bureau and they themselves with a squeak (up to demotivators on social networks) completed the product, and they’ll also eliminate childhood diseases for decades.

      Did the Makeyevites have a light SLBM at the time of transfer of work on the new TT SLBM from Makeev to MIT? They then tortured the heir of the R-39 - a megamonstra named "Bark": 81 tons, 16 meters in length and 2,4 m in diameter.
      Under such an ICBM, the Borey would fit into the dimensions of the Shark.
      Quote: DenZ
      MIT was given to make a Bulava when Solomonov said that he would "put the Poplar into a submarine."

      Solomonov said that he would make SLBMs with maximum use of the Topol developments. And then, according to rumors, he had to prove that he did not mean the creation of a universal single SLBM and ICBM - since the previous approach to the shell a single rocket gave rise to the 90-ton R-39 and "water carriers".
      1. +6
        28 August 2018 10: 59
        Quote: Alexey RA
        the previous approach to the single missile projectile gave rise to the 90-ton R-39 and "water carriers".

        Project 941 is not called a water carrier from a great mind.
        Firstly, the buoyancy of the submarine (four higher than that of the Americans) was set according to the technical task. Due to this, the boat received a draft, which allowed it to be serviced from piers, to which it could not even come close, without gigantic investments in the deepening of the bottom, if the buoyancy parameter was lower.
        Secondly, the boat was intended for operation in the Arctic Ocean, where it broke ice 2,5 meters thick, when surfaced, without problems.

        And, by the way, the Bark missile, which was created by the Makeyevtsy, could be fired right through the ice, which the Bulava is not even close to capable of.
        1. +3
          28 August 2018 11: 12
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Firstly,........
          Secondly,...........

          Thirdly, the buoyancy margin is also the survival of the submarine, including.
        2. 0
          7 November 2018 14: 54
          Straight through the ice - it's cool! Is the fragile body of a rocket made of light alloys unharmed? He is not armored!
          1. 0
            7 November 2018 22: 09
            Quote: kuz363
            Straight through the ice - it's cool! Is the fragile body of a rocket made of light alloys unharmed? He is not armored!

            It is not a problem to find a description of the Bark rocket in the net. It breaks the ice not with a body, but with a special device. In the description of the rocket, there is a line: ".... The mass of the engine of the ice breaking system is 29 kg ...".
  6. -11
    27 August 2018 08: 58
    In the event of a conflict, ALL of our missile carriers will be guaranteed destroyed. Under the USSR, 12 missile carriers stood on alert duty. It was believed that one of 12 will be able to escape from the persecution.
    The small throwing weight of the Bulava is explained by our banal lag in the production of solid rocket fuel. Compare Poplar and Minuteman.
    1. +5
      27 August 2018 09: 48
      The Minuteman must be compared with the "Voevoda", but the Americans have nothing to compare with the Topol
      1. -3
        27 August 2018 13: 01
        Quote: kot11180
        The Minuteman must be compared with the "Voevoda", but the Americans have nothing to compare with the Topol

        Minuteman weighs 30 tons, Voivode - 200 tons. How you are going to compare them is not clear.
        The main mine rocket now with us is Topol-M and its modifications. A comparison of Minuteman and Poplar is more than appropriate.
        1. -2
          27 August 2018 19: 26
          why compare mine rocket and mobile complex?
    2. +3
      27 August 2018 10: 22
      Quote: ism_ek
      In the event of a conflict, ALL of our missile carriers will be guaranteed destroyed.

      Who gave you such guarantees? .. In addition, the article states that our emphasis is on the land component of the triad; The most vulnerable part is the air part, I think so. I wouldn’t discount our submarines so easily.
      1. +6
        27 August 2018 11: 36
        Quote: raw174
        Quote: ism_ek
        In the event of a conflict, ALL of our missile carriers will be guaranteed destroyed.

        Who gave you such guarantees? ...... ..... I would not have discounted our submarines so easily.
        Moreover, submarines can even shoot from the pier ....
      2. +3
        27 August 2018 14: 44
        Quote: raw174
        our submarines so easily would not discount

        What is Russian, what is American strategic submarine is a trump card in the sleeve of the nuclear triad, and the trump card is difficult to identify with a particular state. In the event of an open war, they will be used only after the capabilities of air and ground means have been exhausted. Or for delivering a sudden blow under the guise of unauthorized actions of third parties or countries.
      3. +4
        27 August 2018 14: 59
        Quote: raw174
        The most vulnerable part is the air part, I think so.

        In theory, yes. But in practice ... a few years ago there was a series of photos of the SSBF base of SF, which suddenly showed up all of our SSBNs standing at the piers.
        In addition, there is a known problem with the mine clearance of our SSBNs leaving the base.
    3. +1
      27 August 2018 21: 42
      Quote: ism_ek
      In the event of a conflict, ALL of our missile carriers will be guaranteed destroyed.

      How will the enemy destroy an underwater missile carrier in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?
      1. +1
        27 August 2018 23: 38
        Quote: KaPToC
        will the enemy destroy an underwater missile carrier in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?

        This is possible if in a pair of buildings a sivulf sticks out from him with an order to shoot at the sound of opening the covers.
        1. -1
          28 August 2018 16: 44
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          This is possible if in a pair of buildings a sivulf sticks out from him with an order to shoot at the sound of opening the covers.

          Sivulf in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk? Yes you are raving! And why not immediately in the Moscow river?
  7. -2
    27 August 2018 09: 02
    Los Angeles-type American boat discovers Project 667BDRM submarine in the Barents Sea at a distance of up to 30 kilometers

    our submarines use a laser submarine-type laser system MTK-110coupled with the SAS can see in real time any underwater objects, keels of ships at ranges up to 50 km, at a depth of up to 300 meters and use torpedo and missile weapons on them. So even the Virginia submarines have no chance.
    * 30 km against our 50 km, + we have PLURA and 650 mm caliber TA
    1. jjj
      +3
      27 August 2018 11: 28
      It’s very difficult to find a boat in the Arctic Ocean, even if you know for sure that it is here. And yet, where in the article the author talks about BDRMs, he gives a snapshot of the BDR
    2. BVS
      +5
      27 August 2018 11: 41
      LASER "sees" under water up to 50 km?
      1. +7
        27 August 2018 12: 18
        Do not pay attention - this is Roman :))))
        1. 0
          27 August 2018 14: 06
          Do not pay attention - this is Roman :))))

          Andrei, why are you writing a comment that is not related to the topic of the article (?)
          why do you mislead people (?) and provoke and insult me?
          * here in VO there is already a whole company, formed by conspiracy
          * I already consider the minuses: pure shoulder straps - for that clear conscience
          * before we consider cons to one hundred (?) - I hope we will not compromise !!!
          1. +6
            27 August 2018 23: 36
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            Andrei, why are you writing a comment that is not related to the topic of the article (?)

            Roman, why are you writing comments that are not related to the topic of the article? How much can you carry fierce nonsense on all, I repeat, ALL issues on which you speak out?
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            why do you mislead people (?) and provoke and insult me?

            Yeah. You are fantasizing on the blue eye about lasers / blasters. In general, MTK stands for Marine Television Complex. At the same time, MTK-100 was adopted back in 1974, and in general this thing is a camera, incl. located in compartments where personnel are not expected. MTK-110 is its modernization.
            So no one is provoking or insulting you. By Senka and the hat
      2. -1
        27 August 2018 14: 11
        LASER "sees" under water up to 50 km?

        not a laser - but a lidar (!)
        1. 0
          27 August 2018 15: 31
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          not a laser - but a lidar

          Light Identification Detection and Ranging
          Uh-huh.
  8. 0
    27 August 2018 11: 26
    How many people have so many opinions and, moreover, predominantly the opinion is the percentage, and therefore we can argue until hoarse and to no avail. As for the Bulava and Boreyev, yes, we had a noticeable lag behind the United States in missiles: liquid-fuel missiles are slower than solid-fuel ones, and therefore we tried to compensate by increasing the weight of the charge. Then work began with a solid fuel system, and there are always outsiders during work. In this case, where is the guarantee that the outsiders will not turn to Bulava? By the way, there were publications on this topic. And then we have no alternative to TT missiles "Bulava".
    Until recently, there was a lot of speculation about "Borey": sawing off the denig, great stupidity, etc., but the understanding came that there was no alternative to "Borey". So it is with "Bulava" yes it is not perfect, but better not, but it is needed yesterday
  9. +2
    27 August 2018 12: 27
    Ilya Legat came up with problems where they do not exist. Now we are in the framework of the START-3 treaty, according to which 1550 blocks for 700 carriers, which dictates 2 BG per carrier, are approximately. Therefore, the modern Mace is also designed to carry 4 BGs of 500 ct each. In this case, in case of termination or withdrawal from the START-3 treaty, a new version of the Mace is being worked out, which will be more due to the refusal of the container in which the current Mace is loaded into the boat shaft. They say that the parameters of such a Mace will not be inferior to the Trident in terms of throwing weight ... And it will be possible to place up to 8 BGs of 500 ct each with elements of a missile defense breakthrough.
  10. +7
    27 August 2018 16: 26
    The author of adventure and duductive novels to write! I would become a millionaire! How can he twist the intrigue ... how he pauses! One headline is worth it! "Will the Bulava Save Russia?" The heart sanks at once: really won't save ?! And what darkness creeps into the soul as you read the article (!): Bang-bang, oh-oh, dying, my bunny! (I mean "Bulava" ...) The fist convulsively shuts his mouth so that a cry of horror does not sound! And suddenly (at the end of the article ...): the cry of a kochet! The bright light of joy floods the pages of the story, which are dark as a cemetery! Shadows disappear at noon! They brought him home ... he turned out to be alive! Bunny, then! I mean "Bulava"! Maestro, carcasses! Everyone is dancing the cancan! The curtain !
  11. 0
    27 August 2018 16: 54
    Well, if you create dispersed launch pads for one rocket, constantly transporting here and there a rocket, then dummies (such as a game of thimble with the enemy). Then, in fact, the expected security should increase sharply.
    1. +4
      27 August 2018 17: 30
      Quote: M. Michelson
      Well, if you create dispersed launch pads for one missile, constantly transporting a rocket or dummies back and forth (like a thimble game with the enemy). Then, in fact, the expected security should increase sharply.

      This is called the withdrawal of PGRC to field positions with the deployment of layouts. smile
  12. +1
    27 August 2018 18: 03
    At the end of the working day and having come home, I saw that this unfortunate misunderstanding was corrected good smile
    PS. So it is in electronic form, the site can be quickly corrected. And imagine when such eyepieces are found in print media, reference books there any ....
  13. +4
    27 August 2018 19: 50
    Mace range -9300 km, the limit with fewer heads. The author, where did you suck the figure of 11 thousand km? Only Sineva Liner can fly to such a range ... laughing tongue wassat
  14. +1
    27 August 2018 23: 36
    Quote: vladcub
    How many people have so many opinions and, moreover, predominantly the opinion is the percentage, and therefore we can argue until hoarse and to no avail. As for the Bulava and Boreyev, yes, we had a noticeable lag behind the United States in missiles: liquid-fuel missiles are slower than solid-fuel ones, and therefore we tried to compensate by increasing the weight of the charge. Then work began with a solid fuel system, and there are always outsiders during work. In this case, where is the guarantee that the outsiders will not turn to Bulava? By the way, there were publications on this topic. And then we have no alternative to TT missiles "Bulava".
    Until recently, there was a lot of speculation about "Borey": sawing off the denig, great stupidity, etc., but the understanding came that there was no alternative to "Borey". So it is with "Bulava" yes it is not perfect, but better not, but it is needed yesterday


    Actually, Svyatoslav, you have a lot of, let's say, "rough edges" in your post, sometimes having nothing to do with realities. This is just your view of the problem. I roughly understand, of course, what you wanted to say, but at times you ended up with completely "frivolous" statements.

    As for the Bulava and Boreyev, yes, we had a noticeable lag behind the United States in missiles: liquid-fuel missiles are slower than solid-fuel ones, and therefore we tried to compensate by increasing the weight of the charge.

    The finished speed of liquid and solid-fuel rockets is about the same. But the active part of the trajectory is shorter for solid fuel, they are gaining speed faster.
    The increase in charge weight has nothing to do with the fact that the rocket is a liquid-propellant, and as you say, slower. The most spent missiles (SLBMs) ​​in the United States and in our country - Trident D-5 and R-29RMU2 Sineva - have a maximum throw-weight of approximately the same 2,8 tons. Although one of them is solid fuel, and the other is liquid.
    What is the lag? The fact is that for the past 50 years, Americans have only solid-fuel rockets, and we have both liquid and solid fuel. But it happened so historically that ours made a bet on rocket engines, Americans on solid propellant rocket engines. Sometimes, to be honest, we lacked the technology to create rockets with solid propellant rocket engines comparable to American ones. But gradually this skew has leveled off and now, in principle, we will not say that we noticeably lag behind the Americans. Yes, they have technologies that are not yet available to us in serial use, but I think that we will narrow this gap

    Then work began with the solid fuel system, and when working there are always outsiders.

    Then - when is this? In fact, work on solid-fuel marine missiles began back in 1960. A solid-fuel rocket was put into service (albeit on the same boat) in the 70s - the D-11 complex with the R-31 missile. Just like everywhere, each direction had its patrons. And some works just covered up to give others a green street


    Quote: Tektor
    Ilya Legat came up with problems where they do not exist. Now we are in the framework of the START-3 treaty, according to which 1550 blocks for 700 carriers, which dictates 2 BG per carrier, are approximately. Therefore, the modern Mace is also designed to carry 4 BGs of 500 ct each. In this case, in case of termination or withdrawal from the START-3 treaty, a new version of the Mace is being worked out, which will be more due to the refusal of the container in which the current Mace is loaded into the boat shaft. They say that the parameters of such a Mace will not be inferior to the Trident in terms of throwing weight ... And it will be possible to place up to 8 BGs of 500 ct each with elements of a missile defense breakthrough.


    In contrast to the previous agreements, it is considered how many "concretely" warheads are on a given missile. There may be 12 missiles with one warhead and 4 missiles with 4-6 warheads on the same boat.
    The mace is generally designed to carry 6 blocks.

    Anything that comes to mind can be said. Placing a solid-propellant rocket, for which TVR is not an empty phrase, into a mine without a container - well, this is a masterpiece. At the same time, the passage is not entirely clear, and why the other Bulava will be larger due to the rejection of the container? This is the first thing. In terms of throw weight, the new one may not be inferior to Trident, although it is interesting how far it will fly. And 8 warheads of 500 kt each, even if you really want to place it, is unrealistic ... Miracles do not happen. Is it possible only in alternative history ...

    Quote: M. Michelson
    Well, if you create dispersed launch pads for one rocket, constantly transporting here and there a rocket, then dummies (such as a game of thimble with the enemy). Then, in fact, the expected security should increase sharply.

    Read the contract for a change ....

    Quote: Dzafdet
    Mace range -9300 km, the limit with fewer heads. The author, where did you suck the figure of 11 thousand km? Only Sineva Liner can fly to such a range ... laughing tongue wassat

    Well, 9300 is not the maximum range, but the reduced range in accordance with the provisions of the treaties. On 11 thousand it can fly away. With one warhead, for example. After all, "Sineva" / "Liner" for 11 thousand also did not fly with full combat equipment
  15. 0
    31 August 2018 17: 17
    "after all, the American nuclear shield, in general, seems to be more modern"
    Shame and disgrace to write!
  16. 0
    2 September 2018 21: 56
    So they told us what they really have there and how.
    There may no longer be a Mace, and not Sineva for a long time.
    And they say that the Mace is for the media.
    Yes, here I personally do not care just. Putin said that "... why do we need such a world where there will be no Russia?! ..".
    That's enough for me.
    Pindus pind-osiya also should understand that these are not empty words.
    Otherwise, it will cost them dearly ...
  17. 0
    11 September 2018 20: 43
    Dear Bad_gr (Vladimir), in your message dated August 28, 2018 10:59 a photo of TK-13 at the North Pole?
  18. 0
    20 September 2018 09: 40
    Quote: Old26
    Quote: vladcub
    How many people have so many opinions and, moreover, predominantly the opinion is the percentage, and therefore we can argue until hoarse and to no avail. As for the Bulava and Boreyev, yes, we had a noticeable lag behind the United States in missiles: liquid-fuel missiles are slower than solid-fuel ones, and therefore we tried to compensate by increasing the weight of the charge. Then work began with a solid fuel system, and there are always outsiders during work. In this case, where is the guarantee that the outsiders will not turn to Bulava? By the way, there were publications on this topic. And then we have no alternative to TT missiles "Bulava".
    Until recently, there was a lot of speculation about "Borey": sawing off the denig, great stupidity, etc., but the understanding came that there was no alternative to "Borey". So it is with "Bulava" yes it is not perfect, but better not, but it is needed yesterday


    Actually, Svyatoslav, you have a lot of, let's say, "rough edges" in your post, sometimes having nothing to do with realities. This is just your view of the problem. I roughly understand, of course, what you wanted to say, but at times you ended up with completely "frivolous" statements.

    As for the Bulava and Boreyev, yes, we had a noticeable lag behind the United States in missiles: liquid-fuel missiles are slower than solid-fuel ones, and therefore we tried to compensate by increasing the weight of the charge.

    The finished speed of liquid and solid-fuel rockets is about the same. But the active part of the trajectory is shorter for solid fuel, they are gaining speed faster.
    The increase in charge weight has nothing to do with the fact that the rocket is a liquid-propellant, and as you say, slower. The most spent missiles (SLBMs) ​​in the United States and in our country - Trident D-5 and R-29RMU2 Sineva - have a maximum throw-weight of approximately the same 2,8 tons. Although one of them is solid fuel, and the other is liquid.
    What is the lag? The fact is that for the past 50 years, Americans have only solid-fuel rockets, and we have both liquid and solid fuel. But it happened so historically that ours made a bet on rocket engines, Americans on solid propellant rocket engines. Sometimes, to be honest, we lacked the technology to create rockets with solid propellant rocket engines comparable to American ones. But gradually this skew has leveled off and now, in principle, we will not say that we noticeably lag behind the Americans. Yes, they have technologies that are not yet available to us in serial use, but I think that we will narrow this gap

    Then work began with the solid fuel system, and when working there are always outsiders.

    Then - when is this? In fact, work on solid-fuel marine missiles began back in 1960. A solid-fuel rocket was put into service (albeit on the same boat) in the 70s - the D-11 complex with the R-31 missile. Just like everywhere, each direction had its patrons. And some works just covered up to give others a green street


    Quote: Tektor
    Ilya Legat came up with problems where they do not exist. Now we are in the framework of the START-3 treaty, according to which 1550 blocks for 700 carriers, which dictates 2 BG per carrier, are approximately. Therefore, the modern Mace is also designed to carry 4 BGs of 500 ct each. In this case, in case of termination or withdrawal from the START-3 treaty, a new version of the Mace is being worked out, which will be more due to the refusal of the container in which the current Mace is loaded into the boat shaft. They say that the parameters of such a Mace will not be inferior to the Trident in terms of throwing weight ... And it will be possible to place up to 8 BGs of 500 ct each with elements of a missile defense breakthrough.


    In contrast to the previous agreements, it is considered how many "concretely" warheads are on a given missile. There may be 12 missiles with one warhead and 4 missiles with 4-6 warheads on the same boat.
    The mace is generally designed to carry 6 blocks.

    Anything that comes to mind can be said. Placing a solid-propellant rocket, for which TVR is not an empty phrase, into a mine without a container - well, this is a masterpiece. At the same time, the passage is not entirely clear, and why the other Bulava will be larger due to the rejection of the container? This is the first thing. In terms of throw weight, the new one may not be inferior to Trident, although it is interesting how far it will fly. And 8 warheads of 500 kt each, even if you really want to place it, is unrealistic ... Miracles do not happen. Is it possible only in alternative history ...

    Quote: M. Michelson
    Well, if you create dispersed launch pads for one rocket, constantly transporting here and there a rocket, then dummies (such as a game of thimble with the enemy). Then, in fact, the expected security should increase sharply.

    Read the contract for a change ....

    Quote: Dzafdet
    Mace range -9300 km, the limit with fewer heads. The author, where did you suck the figure of 11 thousand km? Only Sineva Liner can fly to such a range ... laughing tongue wassat

    Well, 9300 is not the maximum range, but the reduced range in accordance with the provisions of the treaties. On 11 thousand it can fly away. With one warhead, for example. After all, "Sineva" / "Liner" for 11 thousand also did not fly with full combat equipment

    The question is interesting, emnip, it flew fully equipped, and after resetting part of the BB flew further. For it can, since the 3rd stage is combined with the breeding stage. But the Mace cannot crank up such a trick, it will not have enough energy .. All heads are unified. Their weight is 95 kg. So for the Sineva-Liner, the maximum weight of the BB-950 kg. Many sources write that the Bulava can carry 10 BB. That is the same 950 kg. Then in the dry residue to the very stage of dilution and the fuel remains 1150-950 = 200 kg. Only 200, including iron. It will not be enough for a range of 11 thousand kilometers, not enough. For Sineva - Liner: 2800-950 = 1850 kg. Do you understand the difference? drinks