The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 11. Before fight

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The night before the battle was relatively quiet, at least for the Russian ships - they were prepared for battle and to repel a mine attack, the calculations were sleeping near the guns, not undressing, which allowed them to immediately open fire on orders. But on the whole, the teams completely rested: why did nothing happen, although the position of the Japanese for the surprise attack was far more favorable?

As we know, during the 26 of January, Sotokichi Uriu carried out an assault landing operation, which was actually carried out on the night of the 27, and he could (and should) have destroyed Korean and Varyag, if the Russian stationary met him outside neutral waters. But he did not have the right to destroy the Russian ships on a neutral raid; here he could fight with them only under one condition - if the Varyag or Koreets were the first to fire.

However, the situation changed in the evening of 26 in January of 1904, when in 20.30 S. Uriu received the previously quoted order No. 275: according to this document, he was allowed to ignore Korea’s neutrality at sea. Thus, Sotokichi Uriu got the right to start military operations directly on the Chemulpo raid, but nevertheless decided not to use it on the night of January 27 - he was embarrassed that foreign stationary officers were too close and could suffer. At the same time, possessing absolute superiority in forces, the Japanese rear admiral could afford to be slow - however, not excessive, since the version of the approach of Russian reinforcements from Port Arthur could not be completely discounted.

S. Uriu attached great importance to ensuring that everyone (and VF Rudnev, and the commanders of foreign stationary personnel) received notice of the start of hostilities in advance. A letter that he sent VF Rudnev was cited in various sources several times, but alas, not always correctly, therefore we will give his text in full:

"The ship of His Imperial Majesty" Naniwa "
Reid Chemulpo,
8 February 1904 city


Sir,

Since the Japanese government and the Russian government are currently in a state of war, I respectfully ask you to leave the port of Chemulpo with forces under your command until 12 hours of the morning of 9 February 1904 February. Otherwise, I will have to fight against you in the port.

I have the honor to be your humble servant,

S. Uriu (Signature)

Rear Admiral, Commander of the Japanese Imperial Squadron fleet.

To the senior officer of the Russian fleet on the spot. ”.


Recall that February 8 and 9 1904 r correspond to 26 and 27 January of the same year in the old style.

S. Uriu made an effort so that VF Rudnev received this message early in the morning, no later than January 07.00 27 (although he did not succeed in this). In addition, he prepared letters to the commanders of foreign stationaries: we will not cite the full text of this letter, but note that in it the Japanese rear admiral notified the commanders of the upcoming attack, and suggested that they leave the port in which the battle would be given. It is interesting that in the letter of V.F. Rudnevu S. Uriu suggested that he leave the port before 12.00, while he told the commanders of foreign stationary personnel that he would not attack Russian ships earlier than 16.00.



In 05.30 in the morning of 27 in January, S. Uriu sent a destroyer with the order to the commander "Chiyoda" to meet with all the commanders of foreign ships, and to give them the above-mentioned letters, in addition, the latter had to check with Commodore Bailey whether VF received. Rudnev "call to battle" from the Japanese admiral. The essence of the request was as follows: “To find out from the Talbot commander whether he knew, the Russian ship commander received a notification and if there is any doubt that it was delivered, ask him to provide kindness in delivering it on board the Russian ship” .

From 06.40 to 08.00, the steam boat from the Chiyoda carried S. Uriu's notifications to foreign stations, and, as soon as it was received, the commanders of the French and Italian cruisers immediately went to the Talbot. A short meeting was held, following which the commander of the French cruiser Pascal, captain of the 2 rank Sene, headed for the Varyag: Vsevolod Fyodorovich learned of the Japanese notification to the stationaries from him at 08.00. In 08.30 V.F. Rudnev invited G.P. Belyaev and informed him about the beginning of the war and new circumstances, while he himself went to the Talbot. And only there, on board the British ship, did the Varyag commander on 09.30 finally receive the ultimatum S. Uriu that we quoted above.

In essence, further events before the battle were utterly predictable, and we will not linger too much on them: as has been said many times before, Korea’s neutrality didn’t cost foreign commanders, they only defended the interests of their own powers at Chemulpo. And these interests, of course, did not include aggravation of relations with Japan, so it’s not surprising that the commanders of the English, French, Italian and American ships decided to leave the raid if Varyag did not enter the battle before the time specified in the notification.

The meeting of commanders was recorded (recall that the American commander was not present, he made his decision to leave the raid alone upon receipt of S. Uriu's notice), and in this protocol, under paragraph 2, it is written:
“In the event that the Russian military ships do not leave the raid, we decided to leave our parking area until 4 o'clock in the afternoon and anchor to the north, because in this position our ships may be damaged if the Japanese squadron attacks the Russian ships, regardless of our protest". However, in the very text of the protest, signed by the commanders of foreign stationery, nothing was said about the decision to leave the battlefield. However, all this made absolutely no difference, since along with the protest, Rear Admiral S. Uriu also sent the minutes of the commanders meeting, so the Japanese Rear Admiral knew all the same about their decision to leave the raid. And if it were otherwise, the Anglo-French-Italian protest did not stop being a mere formality: S. Uriu had quite enough opportunities to detect the departure of Talbot, Elba, Pascal and Vicksburg.

There is a lot of talk about the fact that the commander of the American gunboat did not sign this protest, in fact, he refused to participate in the meeting of station commanders at all (according to other sources, no one invited him to this meeting). But in fairness it should be noted that the commanders signed their protest after VF Rudnev announced that he would attempt a breakthrough. Thus, this protest was completely formal, in fact it was a reminder of S. Uriu that his actions should not damage the property of England, France and Italy. And the fact that the commander of "Vicksburg" W. Marshall did not participate in all this, hardly caused any damage to the honor of the American flag.

At the council of stationary commanders V.F. Rudnev announced that he would not stay in the raid, and he would come to a breakthrough, but he asked foreign stationary staff to accompany him before leaving the neutral waters. Why was this done? We will not describe in detail the locations of the water area where the battle between Varyag and Koreytsa with the Japanese squadron took place, but only recall that from the Chemulpo raid to Fr. Phalmido (Yodolmi) led the fairway, which in the narrowest places had a width of a kilometer, or even slightly more. It was not too difficult to go through this channel in peacetime, but it would be difficult to maneuver at high speed (as shown by the Tsubame accident) and Russian ships caught under the concentrated fire of the Japanese squadron would have nothing to oppose to the enemy. The situation would be somewhat improved if Varyag and the Koreans could get closer to the island — a wide enough range followed him, in which S.Uriu's squadron was stationed in January 27. But at the same time, the territorial waters of Korea ended about three miles from about. Phalmido (and the island itself was approximately 6 miles from Chemulpo’s raid). In general, there were some chances that if the stationary officers carried out the Varyag and the Koreytsa to the border of the territorial waters, the Japanese would not have fired as soon as the Russian ships crossed it and opened fire only when the cruiser and the gunner the boat would be on the reach, that is, where they could still maneuver. Not that VF gave it. Rudnev has some chances, but ... still it was better than nothing. Of course, the station commanders denied him that request, and it would be strange to expect something different from them.

The decisions of the board of stationary commanders were quite shocked by V.F. Rudneva. According to eyewitnesses, he “went down the ladder of an English ship, in a heart-rending voice, said:“ They drove us into a trap and doomed to death! ”” - however, we must bear in mind that such evidence comes from Japanese sources, which ... in general, let's say, quite loosely interpret the mood of Russian sailors. Reading the Japanese memoirs, we may be surprised to find that on January 26, the Koreyans returned to Chemulpo because “they faced desperate brave men” - meaning the actions of the destroyers, whose valiant crews allegedly “embarrassed” the Russians that they fled from them. Although, in general, the Japanese attacked the cannon ship when it was already turning back, and it is obvious that it was not the actions of the 9 squadron of the destroyers that motivated it. And even if it were not so - it turns out that the Japanese sailors stopped the “Koreyets” by the force of their inflexible spirit, and not by the fact that this spirit was reinforced by a squadron of six cruisers and four destroyers who displayed aggressive intentions and immeasurably superior to the Russian ship in firepower .

Nevertheless, there is no smoke without fire; most likely, the Russian commander really did not expect such a decision: it tells us a great deal about how VF actually saw the situation. Rudnev. In order to understand this, it is necessary to make very great efforts to abandon the after-knowledge: we know that Chemulpo’s neutrality was ignored, and we understand why this happened. Therefore, it is strange to us: why could VF be surprised here? Rudnev? But let's imagine a similar situation somewhere in Manila - armored cruisers "Oleg", "Aurora" and "Pearls" arrive there after the Tsushima battle, and suddenly, out of place, the Japanese squadron, whose commander threatens to enter the harbor and they will drown everyone, and the Americans wash their hands ... It is not surprising that the Russian commanders would be shocked by this turn of events, and to you, dear reader, such an idea will seem altogether fantastic. So, apparently, Vsevolod Fedorovich was firmly convinced that despite the violation of the neutrality of Korea (the landing) the neutrality of the Chemulpo raid will be strictly observed (as, for example, the neutrality of the Philippines, where the Russian cruisers left after the Tsushima battle) when the opposite turned out, it was a big blow for him. V.F. Rudnev, until the very end, believed that the Russian ships remained safe while they were on Chemulpo’s roadstead, and offering the Russian envoy to Korea, Pavlov, to lead the ships away, was probably not afraid that Varyag and Koreans would destroyed, and the fact that the Japanese block them in the port. But the ultimatum of S. Uriu and the council of stationary commanders dispelled this illusion, so that V.F. Rudnev was faced with the necessity in the next few hours to lead his small detachment into battle against a many-times superior enemy.

Vsevolod Fedorovich had to make a choice where to take the fight - try to make an attempt to break through or stay in the Chemulpo roadstead, wait for the arrival of the Japanese ships and fight there. As we know, vf Rudnev chose the first, and today many lovers stories naval fleets accuse him of this, believing that, fighting in the roadstead, the Russian ship would have more chances of harming the enemy. The logic in this case is simple: if the "Varyag" remains on the roadstead, the roles change - now the Japanese will have to "crawl" along the narrow fairway, and they are unlikely to be able to bring more than two cruisers into battle simultaneously. A Russian cruiser could fight with them for some time, and then, when the Japanese were close enough, rush forward, and, or converge with the leading Japanese ships on a "pistol" (torpedo) shot, or even ram one of them. In any case, the battle would have turned out to be much more fierce, and the Varyag, having died in the fairway, would have hampered the movement of ships on it.



All of the above looks very, very reasonable, but only under one condition - that the ships Sotokichi Uriu will attempt to "break in" into the raid during the daytime. At the same time, we know quite reliably that the Japanese rear admiral did not at all plan to do anything of the kind. The fact is that in the morning, approximately on 09.00, 27 of January, all Japanese ships received order No. XXUMX signed by S. Uriu on the combat plans for the current day: including the actions of the forces subordinate to him in those cases, if “Varyag "And" Korean "will remain in the roads, and foreign stationary will be in their places, or the last will leave, leaving the Russian ships alone.

We will not quote this order in full, because it is large enough and includes also those actions that were already executed for the specified time. Those who wish to familiarize themselves with this text will be sent to the remarkable monograph of Polutov, “The landing operation of the Japanese army and navy in February 1904 in Inchon” on p. 220, and here we quote only the seventh section of this order:

“If until February 13.00 9 Russian ships do not leave the anchorage, then the following action plan is accepted:
All ships take up positions next to the flagship. The flagship is located on the N from the Sable islands.

a) if the ships of the neutral powers remain at the anchorage, then in the evening a torpedo attack is made:

b) if only Russian ships and a small number of foreign ships and vessels are in the anchorage, an artillery attack is made by the forces of the entire detachment.

The attack on point “a” in the evening of February 9 is assigned to the 9 th detachment of the destroyers. The squad commander must pay special attention not to cause damage to foreign ships and vessels.

The 2 tactical group, together with the 14 detachment of the destroyers, occupies a position within sight of the Chemulpo anchorage, the 1 th tactical group occupies a position in the rear of the 2 tactical group.

In the event of an attack on point “b”, the 2-I tactical group approaches the anchorage and takes up a position at a distance of 4 thousand meters from the enemy, the 1-I tactical group takes a position in the rear of the 2-th tactical group. Each destroyer detachment keeps close to its tactical group and, having improved the favorable moment, attacks the enemy. ”


Recall that according to the order number 28 from February 8 (January 26) 1904, the 1-I tactical group included the Naniwa, Takachiho, Chiyoda and 9-th detachment of the destroyers, and the 2-I tactical group - respectively, "Asama", "Akashi" and "Niytaka" with the 14-th detachment of the destroyers.

What would happen if the Russian ships remained on the roads? It is very simple - according to point “in”, Japanese ships would enter the fairway leading to the Chemulpo raid, and ... would stop 4 kilometers (21,5 cables) from the Varyag. From this distance, the gunners of “Assamy”, under the protection of very decent armor, by the way, impenetrable either for Varyag 152-mm guns, or for Korean Korean 203-guns, would simply shoot the Russian armored cruiser as an exercise. It was hardly possible to count on the fact that under such conditions Varyag or Koreans could get close to Asama at the range of a torpedo shot, but even if the Russian ships made a similar attempt, they would have to enter the fairway, where there were Japanese ships - and when they would have come close enough (which is extremely doubtful, since they would have been shot earlier), the Varyag and Koreets attacked the destroyers, and everything would be over.

But S. Uriu could change his mind and conduct an attack according to the plan “a”. Then, with the onset of dusk, the destroyers of the 4 squad would enter the raid, and the 2 tactical group would move after them. In this case, “Varyag” would simply have nowhere to go: let's look again at the layout of the ships on the night from 26 to January 27 and pay attention to its scale.



We see that Chemulpo’s raid itself is very small - in essence, this is a water area about a mile wide, and two miles long. It is possible to go north, but this would mean that “Varyag” is hiding “under the skirt” of foreign stationery, such an action would be completely unacceptable from any position. It is impossible to confuse the Varyag with any stationary, because the Russian cruiser was the only ship that had four pipes, so his meeting with the destroyers is inevitable - there is no place to hide in the roadstead. And somehow energetically maneuvering in such a small water area is simply unrealistic. In other words, all hope is in cannons, but, having opened fire, the Varyag finally unmasks itself, becoming easy prey for both the destroyers and the commanders of the 1 tactical group of cruisers, who were assigned to follow the destroyers “by holding the anchorage in line of sight". It was possible, of course, to try simply to anchor and put up anti-torpedo nets, but the problem is that such an action will make the ship still, and does not guarantee complete protection from torpedoes. And you can shoot a still ship even in the twilight of the evening, even though waiting for the dawn.

Thus, we see that the tactics that the Japanese were going to adhere to did not leave the Varyag and the Koreans no chance if the ships would remain at Chemulpo’s roadstead. As for VF himself. Rudnev, his report gives a short and clear explanation of his reasons:

"The decision to go for a breakthrough and take the fight outside the raid considered more convenient on the following grounds:

1. A narrow raid made it impossible to maneuver;

2. Fulfilling the admiral's demand, there was a faint hope that the Japanese would let go of the skerries and give battle at sea; the latter was preferable, since in skerries one has to take certain courses and, therefore, it is impossible to use all means of defense and attack;

3. Destruction of the cruiser in the roads, without attempting to break through and taking the fight, absolutely could not take place; suggesting the possible death of a cruiser anyway, of course, it was necessary to inflict on the enemy the greatest possible harm, not sparing his life. ”


In other words, we see that VF Rudnev believed that in the cramped conditions of the raid, without being able to maneuver, he would become easy prey for Japanese ships. Having examined the tactics that Sotokichi Uriu was going to adhere to, we understand that Vsevolod Fedorovich had all the reasons for such an opinion. At the same time, all the alternatives to combat in the raid, offered "on the Internet," are based on the fact that the Japanese squadron, by all means, will break into the raid under the fire of "Varyag" and "Koreyets." That this absolutely did not need to be done, and that it is enough just to shoot the Russian stationary, walking at a low speed (or stopping at all) on the fairway, while being able to parry any counter jerk of Russian ships by the destroyers, dear lovers of naval history, obviously, it's come. But on the other hand, Sotokichi Uriu knew this very well, and therefore we can draw the following conclusions:

1. Remaining on the raid, Varyag and Koreyets did not receive any advantages at all, but at the same time the Russian stationary officers risked senseless death if the Japanese conducted a successful attack by the destroyers on the night of 27 on 28 in January. The question of how high the likelihood of the Varyag and Koreans mines exploded in the night attack is beyond the scope of this series of articles, but it is assumed to be extremely high. The reasons that prompted the author to consider it as such will be set forth by him in a separate, off-cycle article on the nighttime attacks of the Japanese destroyers;

2. If the Japanese had undertaken a day-to-day artillery "assault", the "Varyag" and "Koreyets" would have been in a similar or even worse position than if they had tried to go along the fairway to the sea. Slowly moving along a raid, slowly moving along the fairway, in each of these cases they would represent an excellent target for the main "weapons"S. Uriu - Japanese armored cruiser, who would not even need to come close to them to destroy both ships.

3. At the same time, the output of Russian ships to the battle would be perceived by the public, the crews of foreign stationary officers, and others as a feat, and this is always important: at the same time, an attempt to fight in the raid, although it would hardly be the cause of the accusation of cowardice, would not allow to talk about the heroism of Russian sailors. If at the same time, due to some accident, civilians or European ships or vessels suffered, then this could be the basis for a serious international incident.

In fact, as we will see later, the commander of the Varyag had another, very weighty reason not to stay in the roads, but to go for a breakthrough. But the above is enough to make an unequivocal conclusion: the decision of V.F. Rudnev to make an attempt to break through should be regarded as the only correct one in the current situation - both from a military point of view and from the position of international politics.

Before the battle there was very little time. In 10.00, Vsevolod Fedorovich returned to Varyag after a meeting with the station commanders, and after only an hour and ten minutes, the command “All Upward, Shoot Anchor!” Sounded at 11.10. By this time, all the final preparations for the battle were ready - wooden furniture was sent overboard, and so on, and the Koretze also cut down the branches in order to make it difficult to determine the distance to the canlodka. Secret books, maps, orders, ciphers were burned. In 11.20, Varyag was removed from the anchor.

But before we proceed to the description of the battle, we note the entry in the logbook made in the morning before the battle and subsequently causing a lot of ridicule from the revisionists:

"07.00. All Japanese ships were anchored and headed for the sea." Morning tidy. Cleaned copper.

This is war - war, and dinner is on schedule! The ship is threatened with a quick death, and what else can the crew do, no matter how beloved of the Russian Imperial Navy, is a jerk! How can you not recall Lieutenant Livitin from Sobolev's remarkable work “Overhaul”, which, explaining to his younger brother, the midshipman, the particulars of the ship service, including why he, the future officer, is driven to scrape the deck, remarks: “There are things their meaninglessness. " The morning tidy, in the opinion of the “historians of the new wave”, testifies to the inertia and mossiness of the officers and commander of the “Varyag”, who did not find for their team more important business before the battle. All would be nothing, that's just:

1. In fact, the cleaning began in 07.00, and the commander of the French cruiser, who informed VF Rudnev about the upcoming Japanese attack and S. Uriu's demands on foreign stationary personnel, arrived at Varyag an hour later. That is, when they started cleaning, no one yet knew that after some four and a half hours the cruiser would go into battle;

2. Each commander is well aware of the rule: “what would a soldier not do, if only ...” was tired, in general. I must say that service on the Varyag in Chemulpo was not easy - it was cold (January!), There were no vacations on the beach, with provisions ... it is clear that no one was hungry, but there were interruptions in supplies. And then there is the whole squadron of Japanese with transports, how to understand all this is unclear. In general, it was perfectly correct to take a team with something, and the current, usual things were perfectly suited for this;

3. And, finally, for some reason it is forgotten that cleaning is one of the most important procedures for preparing a ship for battle. Let us recall the memoirs of Semenov (“Redemption”): “Or another: people who used to think of cleanliness as a fad of their bosses, who lived for a whole year, only" sweeping out the rubbish "suddenly understood its meaning, its necessity, when they were simply explained that the wounded man falls the deck, that, until they pick it up and carry it away, dirt can get into the wound, and it will be released that, because of an empty scratch, cut your hand or foot, otherwise you will not be able to save it from death. ”

To be continued!

Articles from this series:

The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. Part of 2. But why Crump?
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. Part of 3. Boilers niklossa
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. Part of 4. Steam engines
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. Part of 5. Supervisory Commission
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 6. Across the oceans
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 7. Port arthur
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 8. Korean neutrality
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 9. Out "Korean"
The cruiser "Varyag". Fight Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the Year. CH 10. Night
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  1. +4
    29 August 2018 06: 53
    There’s nothing to complain about smile
    There is only a sarcastic smile when reading the third conclusion wink , since "going into battle" is akin to a heroic deed (I don’t argue with that. And in general, I don’t deny the very fact of a heroic deed — I only have questions about some of the details of this feat, which will be raised later). The only question is what Rudnev really wanted to do - to accomplish a feat or really break into Arthur (save the ships, inflict maximum damage on the enemy).
    But all this will come later.
    While the material is plus hi
    PS But it is regrettable that the readers are prepared to not trust Japanese information in the future, attributing them bragging in memoirs. To be fair, then our history knows many similar turns of domestic writers and scribes in his memoirs, if you take the same WWII. Therefore, Japanese memoirs do not stand up for anything special. Or did the Nazis did not fall hundreds before our heroes, like lions, in their interpretation? Everything is relative, Andrei Nikolaevich, and the Japanese did not deserve such a reproach - they are sinned by representatives of any nation wink
    Sincerely, A.N. hi
    1. +11
      29 August 2018 07: 06
      Quote: Rurikovich
      But regrettable is the preparation of readers for not trusting Japanese information in the future.

      Rurikovich, welcome! drinks Let's be frank - the official history of Meiji contains a huge amount of omissions, falsifications, and somewhere lies, this is a fact, and not recognized by me, foreign (EMNIP - German) historians have spoken about this. In this respect, the "Work of the Historical Commission" will probably be more honorable, although it also contains enough blunders. The same applies to Japanese memoirs - they are far from the ultimate truth, this is also a fact, and it must be borne in mind. And that other memoirs (including ours) are guilty of the same is also a fact, though not related to the article. Therefore the phrases
      Quote: Rurikovich
      attributing bragging to them in memoirs

      completely misunderstood. There is the most specific bragging, an example of which I have cited, which postscript is it about?
      1. +2
        29 August 2018 18: 26
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        what kind of posts are we talking about?

        I think it will be about the difference between the projectile consumption indicated by Rudnev and the Japanese data on the Russian projectile consumption based on their examination of the Varyag's cellars.
        And since this moment will still be written, for the time being I just assumed that the debate on this topic will be drinks hi
        1. +1
          29 August 2018 18: 36
          I think it will be about the difference between the projectile consumption indicated by Rudnev and the Japanese data on the Russian projectile consumption based on their examination of the Varyag's cellars.


          In Russia in 1904, it was published how many shells the "Varyag" used up, the most interesting thing is that the data do not agree with the Japanese, not later published in Russia. In foreign publications, both figures are indicated. So that disputes will be.
        2. +4
          30 August 2018 00: 42
          Quote: Rurikovich
          I think it will be about the difference between the projectile consumption indicated by Rudnev and the Japanese data on the Russian projectile consumption based on their examination of the Varyag's cellars.

          If we deny the reliability of the Japanese information about the number of shells recovered from the Varyag's cellars and believe in Rudnev's "425 shells of 6-inch caliber, 470 75-mm and 210 47-mm caliber[/ i] ",
          then we must trust Vsevolod Fedorovich here too
          "the cruiser "Takachiho", which received a hole; The cruiser took 200 wounded and went to Sasebo, but the plaster burst on the road and the bulkheads could not stand, so the Takachiho cruiser sank into the sea. The destroyer sank during the battle[I]
          ".
          No double standards laughing
        3. 0
          30 August 2018 23: 40
          It will still clearly pop up whether the steering gears were damaged, which supposedly caused the Varyag’s turn
  2. 0
    29 August 2018 07: 18
    Now nobody knows the 100 percent truth. So the controversy will continue.
    1. +2
      29 August 2018 07: 58
      Now even "100% truth" everyone interprets as he wants).
  3. 0
    29 August 2018 10: 22
    The fastest pair of Japanese armored cruisers, however, had a very significant drawback in terms of booking - their armor belonged to a batch of completely low-quality, "plasticine" harvey.
    Damage to "Asama" in the Tsushima battle confirms this.
    1. +1
      29 August 2018 11: 42
      Just the same "plasticine"?
      1. 0
        30 August 2018 11: 06
        Defective first pair of armor
        1. 0
          31 August 2018 15: 23
          Strongly doubtful.
    2. +1
      29 August 2018 18: 33
      Quote: ignoto
      Damage to "Asama" in the Tsushima battle confirms this.

      Hm ... "Asama" under Tsushima received 3-305mm and 2-229mm (plus smaller shells that did not cause significant damage). And this is more weighty for armor than the 152mm Varyag shells. So against 6 "shells" Asama was completely protected
      1. +1
        30 August 2018 11: 10
        About 305 mm a moot point.
        Rather 254 mm with BWO.
        Andrey sorted these hits.
        If I’m not mistaken, then they came to the aft, over the Karapas.
        As a result, extensive flooding, the ship was forced to leave the battle for several hours.
        1. 0
          30 August 2018 21: 13
          Quote: ignoto
          About 305 mm a moot point.

          Um what If the Japanese themselves indicated that it was 305mm, then I think that 305mm. During the inspection and repair, fragments are collected to clarify the hitting projectile, an analysis is made of the location of the ship in space at the time of the hit, in order to find out if the "gift" arrived at the given time, etc. So most likely 305mm Yes hi
  4. 0
    29 August 2018 10: 42
    [quote] [/ quote] You can go north, but this will mean that the "Varangian" is hiding "under the skirt" of foreign inpatients, such an action would be completely unacceptable from any position.
    Gg Andrei, you again forget that contemporaries blamed Rudnev !!! What kind of unacceptability can we talk about? His direct responsibilities include causing maximum damage to the enemy by any means available !!! And if for this you can use the same hospitals, he had to do it !!! And do not portray the appearance of a breakthrough. And the Japanese would not dare to attack in the port if there were inpatients, Uriu was not idiots even despite the order issued.
    1. +4
      29 August 2018 11: 51
      Quote: Nehist
      His direct responsibilities include causing maximum damage to the enemy by any means available !!!

      We just need to continue: "which will not harm the country."
      So the use of hospitals, as a cover, or causing them harm during the battle - this is causing significant harm to their country.
      In this case, they would not glorify the feat of the Varyag, but some kind of "dastardly attack on peaceful ships." At the same time, it should be noted that in this case the sending of the Second Squadron with a high degree of probability would no longer be possible due to the closure of the straits of the Baltic Sea. Or something else like that (for example, a ban on the use of the Suez Canal).
      Plus, open support for England, France and the United States of Japan was possible.
      And so they still had to observe at least some decency.
      1. +1
        29 August 2018 12: 14
        Gg What harm are we talking about? The Japanese used the same hospitals to cover their transports before the war was declared, but here it is already officially declared, and Rudnev could arbitrarily cling to the neutrals before the first Japanese shot. And then the Japanese received a huge wagon of problems
        1. +1
          29 August 2018 13: 04
          Firstly, the Japanese were covered by hospitals until a war was officially declared. And then they announced a war. This is a completely different story.

          Political harm will be done.
          Moreover, if you run ahead, then placement in hospitals of Russian sailors (and those only) after that would not be possible.
          1. +1
            30 August 2018 23: 43
            and what, what is impossible? what did it change?
      2. +1
        30 August 2018 21: 19
        Well have fun! But nothing that France was in alliance with Russia?
      3. +2
        30 August 2018 23: 44
        Rudnev simply had to use the inpatients as an element, deliberately warning them that he blames the Japanese for all the consequences.
        In fact, this was his only chance.
      4. 0
        31 August 2018 22: 23
        It should be noted that in this case, the sending of the Second Squadron with high probability would no longer be possible.
        And then she (the second TOE) did something, except for the glorious death. Who knows, maybe the impossibility of sending it would save the fleet. And in fact, the war is still lost. True, we now know everything and are so smart, but then everything was as if not unequivocal.
    2. 0
      29 August 2018 17: 37
      "was not an idiot even despite the issued order" Morning is not to be blamed for stupidity, he even assumed a fantastic breakthrough of the Arthur squadron. How could she know about what was happening in Chemulpo.
      By the way, an interesting question: could Stark come to the rescue? Andrey, what do you think: could this happen? I think that the purest fantasy, even if the commander of the squadron was not Stark, but Makarov, he would not have done without the permission of the governor.
  5. +1
    29 August 2018 11: 25
    Quote: baudolino
    example

    There is no arguing: how many people have been known for a long time, which means there are as many opinions
    1. Cat
      +1
      29 August 2018 13: 54
      Not ... namesake, lately life on VO has been built on the principle "there is my only correct opinion" and a bunch of your "wrong" ones!
      Sincerely, Kitty!
  6. +2
    29 August 2018 11: 29
    But imagine a similar situation somewhere in Manila - after the Tsushima battle, the armored cruisers Oleg, Aurora and Pearl arrive there, and suddenly, from nowhere, the Japanese squadron, whose commander threatens to enter the harbor and drown everyone, and the Americans wash their hands ...

    And what has changed in our time?
    Any hypothetical action from a position of strength in a neutral port of a country that does not have a fleet or the ability to withstand an army sea threat is possible. In this situation, ships of third countries will also leave the raid "expressing protest." For example, the US Navy, as the most powerful - a similar violation of the rights of a neutral port - will get away with it.
    International treaties in the field of maritime law are still valid for "profitable" implementation and will be violated if necessary: ​​- an example of the introduction of all kinds of "no-fly zones" of airspace in sovereign countries.
    Examples of the interpretation / violation of the law of the sea and borders - abound: the incident in the Gulf of Tonkin, the establishment of a 200-mile zone around the Falklands (on April 7, 1982, the British Secretary of Defense announced the blockade of the Falkland Islands from April 12, 1982 and the establishment of a 200-mile zone around the islands , when located within which the ships of the Navy and the merchant fleet of Argentina will be sunk) while the cruiser "General Belgano" was sunk outside the specified zone.

    That is, the rules are set strong for the weak and they are violated when there is a benefit.
    1. +4
      29 August 2018 12: 52
      You can still remember how "Glasgow" and "Kent" in 1915 shot the CD "Dresden" - in the territorial waters of Chile, in front of the Chileans.
      Or how EM Vayena was taken to board the Altmark in Norwegian waters in 1940.
      And how dashingly the British copenhagenized the fleet of neutral France in the same year (Operation Catapult and others) ...
      1. 0
        31 August 2018 08: 56
        The story with Altmark is also controversial, the British accused the Norwegians of negligent performance of duties, on board were British prisoners, whom they released.
        Actually, the Norwegians themselves had to do it.
        With the French, too, not everything is so simple - the "neutrality" of France was declared by the illegal government in violation of the treaty with England.
        1. 0
          31 August 2018 22: 39
          With the French, too, not everything is so simple - the "neutrality" of France was declared by the illegal government in violation of the treaty with England.
          The legality of the Vichy government is no more and no less than the Raynaud government. But in fact you are right: everything is not so simple. However, as often happens in politics ...
        2. 0
          3 September 2018 10: 33
          Quote: Avior
          The story with Altmark is also controversial, the British accused the Norwegians of negligent performance of duties, on board were British prisoners, whom they released.
          Actually, the Norwegians themselves had to do it..

          Highlighted the main thing. The release of the British, illegally held by the Germans in the neutral territory of Norway, should have been engaged in the Norwegians. And not the British. Or the British - but outside the territory of Norway.
          However, against the background of the British operation to occupy Norway, the Altmark incident is such a trifle. smile
          Quote: Avior
          With the French, too, not everything is so simple - the "neutrality" of France was declared by the illegal government in violation of the treaty with England.

          Illegal according to Britain. But legal (at that time) according to the USA, Canada and Australia. smile
    2. 0
      30 August 2018 23: 52
      The examples are clearly unsuccessful, the British did not even say in the Falklands that they would fight only in the blockade zone (they drowned guaranteed in the 200 mile zone, which was warned, because the blockade was indeed), and they were completely in their own right- Article 51 of the UN Charter allowed them to , especially since the Argentines just tried to intercept and attack the British, precisely outside the 200 mile zone.
      And what about the Gulf of Tonkin, what kind of violations?
  7. +8
    29 August 2018 12: 06
    Thanks to the author for his desire to chew us all. I confess that after the second or third story, I began to get angry: which author is a bore, that he should immediately tell who the bianca is. And now I feel sorry that the cycle is ending: you get used to the good and tasty quickly
    1. +4
      31 August 2018 00: 02
      don't be discouraged before completion is not soon smile
      Andrey well done, writes meticulously and clearly. good
      so they are waiting for us
      Part 12 battle before the U-turn.
      Part 13 fight after a U-turn.
      Part 14 After the battle.
      part 15 The fate of sailors (part 15.1 - their way home smile )
      Part 16 Distribution of elephants involved (Korean crew - two elephants in one hand :)
      Part 17 Honoring Heroes in the Homeland and in the Land of the Rising Sun).
      Part 18 The significance of the battle for the Russo-Japanese War.
      part 19. The fate of sailors after the war. (Part 19.1 fate of Rudnev personally)
      Part 20 Cruising the Japanese
      ch21. The fate of the cruiser after the rise.
      Part 22 Soviet awarding of participants.
      It seems I did not miss anything
      But I will not argue; drinks
      1. PPD
        0
        31 August 2018 14: 16
        laughing
        And for each part, it’s not necessary, for every 3 it will be normal. drinks
        Part 23-Opinions on events and participants in the USSR, Russia and foreign countries.
        Now for sure, everything seems to be ... bully
  8. +4
    29 August 2018 13: 27
    I am pleased to put a plus and note the comment. smile This is the maximum within the framework of this site that I can do for the author to thank him for the work done. Thank.
    1. Cat
      +3
      29 August 2018 13: 51
      I join Michael!
      Sincerely, Kitty!
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. +2
    29 August 2018 14: 46
    Good afternoon, Andrey Nikolaevich. It turns out that your article can be expressed in one phrase - Rudnev, in that most difficult situation, chose the most correct solutions, since other options are either bad or very bad. And another question - how invincible was Asam for the Varyag? What is the armor penetration of Russian cannons? Or is it the lifting arcs of the Varyag's cannons? But Askold with the same 6 "
    Kane managed not weakly to answer BC Yakumo to the same Asama. Although he himself received a lot ...
    Will there be a detailed analysis in the 12th "episode"?
    1. +5
      29 August 2018 16: 22
      And another question is, how much was Asam unshakable for the Varangian?

      It is completely invulnerable.
      Kane managed not weakly to answer BC Yakumo to the same Asama.

      This is when is it?
      If you are talking about "Askold", then a column of battleships covered him from "Yakumo", and "Poltava" sniped him 12 ", but that was still in the afternoon.
      .. the stern tower of "Poltava" one of the first salvoes gave a direct hit to "Yakumo": the explosion of a 305-mm shell killed engineer Matida and 21 sailors. (This is what the official Japanese history of war says "Description of military operations at sea in 37-38 . Meiji ", But according to the British military attaché captain W. Packinham, the losses on the Yakumo were 12 killed and 10 wounded.)

      And in the evening there was a short skirmish when the Russian column turned towards Arthur, and Reitenstein on "Askold" with "Novik" rushed in the other direction, cutting through the formation of his battleships. The Japanese cruisers were just in the path of the Russian battleships and that is why they retreated.

      The Koreyets had some chances. in the end, the exact same eight-inch on "Rurik" almost knocked down "Iwate", and he was somewhat better armored than "Asama"
      1. +1
        29 August 2018 23: 13
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        It is completely invulnerable.

        "Never say never!" (from) :)

        The armor penetration of the Russian 6 "\ 45 point-blank is 156 mm, 10 kbl - 99 mm. It is clear that getting close and piercing is unlikely, but on the other hand, Asama's armor belt is long but narrow. Throwing landmines over and sending it for repairs for several months is already quite realistic ...

        Quote: Senior Sailor
        If you are talking about "Askold", then a column of battleships covered him from "Yakumo", and "Poltava" sniped him 12 ", but that was still in the afternoon.

        Well, that’s what you said! In the afternoon, yes, probably covered :))) But in the evening Askold broke around armadillos just in the direction where Yakumo and K. were holding
        1. +1
          30 August 2018 08: 29
          The armor penetration of the Russian 6 "\ 45 point-blank is 156 mm, for 10 kbl - 99 mm.

          Despite the fact that Asama’s GP is 178mm, and the cutting tower is 152 ... 127 casemates ...
          Throw a landmine over

          Colleague, what do you, in this case, mean by the term "land mines"?
          But in the evening Askold broke through armadillos just in the direction where Yakumo and K were holding

          Uh-huh. Only now "Asama", seeing that the rod of Russian battleships at the pace rushed to Nord, and "Askold" with "Novik", cutting through the formation of their main forces, went to Zuid. When Yakumo separated from the main forces, he could only observe. as the Russian cruisers leave.
          So no:
          But Askold with the same 6 "
          Kane managed not weakly to answer BC Yakumo to the same Asama.

          And it was not close
          1. 0
            30 August 2018 11: 40
            For what kind of armor, and what quality were the calculations made.
            I remember that in World War II the armor-piercing shells of 122 mm IS-2 guns did poorly with the quality armor of German tanks, and when the quality of German armor plummeted, things went much more fun.
            I remind you that the first couple is booked with defective Garvey armor.
          2. 0
            30 August 2018 22: 26
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            Colleague, what do you, in this case, mean by the term "land mines"?

            Something exploding. I have already said that it is unlikely to drown, but noticeably damage really.

            Quote: Senior Sailor
            When Yakumo separated from the main forces, he could only observe. as the Russian cruisers leave.

            Well i.e. In your opinion, there was no shooting at all, so they waved their handkerchiefs afterwards and flicked away a tear? It is not clear where Askold caught the damage at the same time.
            1. 0
              31 August 2018 07: 57
              Quote: Saxahorse
              It is not clear where Askold caught the damage at the same time.

              Yes, I already realized that Askold’s damage and breakthrough need a separate article :))) The destroyers’ night attacks fit into the 2 article, one on the main one, the second on the next week, and I’ll post about Askold
              1. 0
                31 August 2018 22: 02
                Absolutely necessary! I, out of my own naivety, first looked at your article, from the cycle about the battle in the Yellow Sea. And as your colleague, "Senior Sailor", he began to ask clarifying questions, so I had to look in real, official sources .. And there .. ...

                Eh .. not enough of your critics. That's what you will not undertake to check so immediately big questions arise. Please, you’ll better study the diagrams and descriptions of this episode in the new material.
            2. +1
              31 August 2018 10: 05
              Something exploding.

              Hmm ... in the Gulsk incident, 5 shells hit the Aurora. exploded alone ...
              It is not clear where Askold caught the damage at the same time.

              judging by the words of a colleague, they caught just "Asam" with "Yakumo". I, sobsno, more oppose this statement :))

              And this, we are waiting for Andrey's article on the damage to "Askold". fellow
              1. 0
                31 August 2018 22: 05
                Even as we wait :) At the beginning, I also pinned on a curve diagram from his last cycle. But it turns out that it is only necessary to transfer Asama from the north to the west, and Yakumo from the south to SO, and the picture begins to converge. Well, the time of the appearance of each of the units is correct.

                In general, we are waiting! :)
      2. 0
        30 August 2018 11: 34
        The last pair was armored much better than the first.
        Quality krupp instead of defective harvey.
  11. +1
    29 August 2018 15: 53
    From this distance, the Asama’s commandos, being protected by very decent armor, which, by the way, was impenetrable for neither the 152 mm Varyag guns, nor the 203 mm Korean guns, would simply have shot the Russian armored cruiser as in an exercise.


    Indeed, for almost one hundred kilogram 8 inch shells of the BKr "Asama", "Varyag" and "Koreets" were an easy "trophy". Both in the roadstead and when entering the open sea.
    1. 0
      30 August 2018 12: 20
      It seems that the Asama is some kind of pre-dreadnought armed exclusively with 8 caliber guns.
      And there were only four of them.
      In towers, unsuccessful in design.
      Everything is manual.
      For nothing, that "light" shells were used, weighing, if I'm not mistaken, about 94 kg.
      But, for the Japanese, and shells for 6 "guns were heavy.
      The mass of Japanese sailors is less than the mass of Europeans by an average of 10-20 kg.
      And no enhanced diet will help here.
      As soon as the opportunity presented itself, the Japanese switched to a 140mm caliber, with an even lighter shell.
      Initially, the British mastered such a caliber for the Greeks, also small-weed.
      And then, they themselves appreciated its advantage.
      So, the issue of firepower in this battle is quite interesting.
  12. +2
    29 August 2018 16: 51
    "Similar testimonies are cited by Japanese sources." 1) What about Rudnev, why should he be happy? 2. How do the Japanese know about these words, were they really present there? For example, I admit that Rudnev expressed himself not in printed words.
  13. +1
    29 August 2018 17: 07
    Quote: Wayar
    "Varyag" was built in the USA, which means the ship was something else ... but. They can't do anything good there. And this fight confirmed it. Not a single Japanese ship was sunk. Then the "Varyag" fled from the battle, together with the "Korean" and pulled out on its own. that's such a misfortune. Oh yes. Then, the raised and repaired "Varyag" served the Japanese for a long time. in fact, these heroes from the "Varyag" presented the enemy with one combat unit !!!!

    Have you carefully read Andrey's previous stories? "By itself he sank", and "VarYag" had no other options
  14. +1
    29 August 2018 17: 22
    Quote: Kotischa
    Not ... namesake, lately life on VO has been built on the principle "there is my only correct opinion" and a bunch of your "wrong" ones!
    Sincerely, Kitty!

    Perhaps you are right, but: "It's a shame honestly" ("Prisoner of the Caucasus". Gaidai's films are "brilliant" masterpieces) still I WANT UNDERSTANDING.
    I press a paw.
  15. +1
    29 August 2018 18: 02
    Comrades, I carefully read the WHOLE cycle about the "Varyag" and I do not see what Rudnev is "sinful" about, otherwise we had assertions that Rudnev was a traitor, Rudnev was a coward, etc. Sometimes it seems to me that Andrei sympathizes with Rudnev in some way.
    Andrei, I really hope that you name the culprits of the incident. Personally, I already have some conclusions, but hope to voice them
    1. +6
      29 August 2018 18: 39
      Quote: vladcub
      Andrei, I really hope that you name the culprits of the incident.

      And why, in fact, must there be the culprit of something? Difficult situations during the war, especially when it began unexpectedly, always happened, and one side in one way or another lost certain episodes, often through no fault of anyone. Blame is when major mistakes are made, in the case of the Varyag, in my opinion, in the situation specifically with Chemulpo, we were simply outplayed, and even though Rudnev was spinning like a spinning top with Varyag - the balance of power, available iron (with his problems) and geography cannot be fooled. Well, they would have sunk not the Varyag, but the Koreyets, or some other stationary ship (and the presence of Russia in Chemulpo was simply necessary, and not some destroyer - a matter of prestige), the essence would not have changed much - it was a defeat and in Africa defeat. And I'm afraid the result would have been the same if the Varyag had serviceable machinery or super-duper shells for six-inches.
      And what exactly is the fault? That "Varyag" ended up in Chemulpo? So it was a matter of diplomatic prestige, sending a powerful stationary ship for a mission in Korea. The fact that they missed the start of the war and did not recall the cruiser? So who knew that the Japanese would begin to act before the declaration of war, it seems to be not accepted by the European rules, according to which the Japanese tried in every possible way to play before. That 152mm shells didn't penetrate Asama's armor? That the Chemulpo fairway is narrow and inconvenient for maneuvers? That "Varyag" machinery did not work as it should? Or that we lost the battle - and, excuse me, we must always win all battles?
      1. +3
        29 August 2018 22: 37
        Gg we put the greatest speed Varyag developed during the retreat and not when trying to break through. The Varangian was quite combat-ready in comparison with the Rurik who really died heroically. Do not believe it, but even in the event of the sinking of the Varangian, it was during the battle on the fairway that would greatly complicate the actions of the Japanese to support their troops. No one accuses Rudnev of cowardice; here, most likely, the question is in competence.
        1. +1
          30 August 2018 08: 00
          Do not believe it, but even in the event of the sinking of the Varangian, it was during the battle on the fairway that would greatly complicate the actions of the Japanese to support their troops.

          You are right, it's hard to believe :))) One more can, one less.
          1. 0
            30 August 2018 10: 10
            Gg the more they are the more difficult
            1. +1
              30 August 2018 22: 30
              Quote: Nehist
              Gg the more they are the more difficult

              Well, if you drown strictly across the fairway, then you need another 19 Varangians for a noticeable result.
              1. +1
                31 August 2018 01: 12
                exactly.
                And they say that it was not possible at full speed, narrowly supposedly ....
                1. +1
                  31 August 2018 10: 07
                  But do not confuse, these are two different things. Transport bypass another bank, or the cruiser at full speed.
                  1. 0
                    31 August 2018 15: 51
                    they have different handling and actually.
      2. PPD
        +2
        30 August 2018 16: 35
        That's debatable. The habits and customs of the "probable friend" must be studied. Both at the General Staff and by observing directly. Therefore, waiting for a declaration of war from people with a different type of thinking is not even a mistake, at least negligence.
        The very fact of finding the latest cruiser speaks of the bone of thinking. There was no need to send the Varyag, and even with the Korean in addition there was no need. If you really wanted "prestige" they could at least bring the embassy security to the battalion. The Japanese, if not confuse, have up to 400 people. We have 12 or 16 Cossacks. What is the real use of the Varyag there? By the way, since February 1, 1892, Zabiyaka has had the status of a rank II cruiser. If it is so necessary to send a cruiser for the sake of show-off, we could use it .. So it is the fault that they were there. Although if the Japanese are considered macaques, like some high-ranking "saints", then yes, probably everything is correct.
        Yes, right, "in my opinion, in the situation specifically with Chemulpo we were simply outplayed, and at least Rudnev was spinning like a top." Who should think about the possibility of such a situation in advance - Rudnev and Belyaev, or who is higher?
        "Or that we lost the battle - and, excuse me, we must always win all battles?"
        - Suvorov and Ushakov did not lose a single battle — what did they do wrong?
        1. +1
          30 August 2018 17: 18
          The habits and customs of the "probable friend" must be studied. And at the General Staff and directly observing.

          Yeah. Ideally. Who did everything perfectly when? Especially in forecasting and planning non-standard situations. The experience of history just suggests that bulky structures such as the army and navy are extremely vulnerable to non-standard, and rarely able to adequately calculate the capabilities of this non-standard. In addition, the Japanese before the REV boasted that they were westernized and played by the rules only as Europeans. Where can one get the confidence that the Japanese will play without rules?
          The fact of finding the latest cruiser speaks of bone thinking.

          The latest, but with serious technical flaws. The most combat-ready large cruisers remained in Port Arthur or Vladivostok.
          By the way, Zabiyaki has the status of a rank II cruiser since 1 on February 1892.

          Everyone on the Internet likes to send the oldest and weakest ships as stationers, for some reason forgetting that no one did this. So, for reference - about 10 years before the RYA, armored cruisers were still under construction, and at the time of the RYA, armored cruisers were often used as stationers. That same British "Talbot" was a fairly powerful ship, slightly smaller than the "Varyag", although the British had a cloud of small class III cruisers. But the Russians are obliged to use only the smallest thing so that the "Varyag" does not happen, and of course the contemporaries of those events should know about this, because we who live 100 years later and have an afterthought know about it!
          Quote: PPD
          Suvorov and Ushakov did not lose a single battle — what did they do wrong?

          OK, should we have the same Suvorovs with the Ushakovs, who are essentially outstanding commanders, and therefore an exception to the general rule? Sorry, but this smacks of cheers-patriotism of the most gobbled hit. We cannot win always and everywhere - no one can. And you should not be ashamed of this, as well as look for the guilty in all cases.
          1. PPD
            0
            30 August 2018 20: 36
            Quote: arturpraetor
            Where can one get the confidence that the Japanese will play without rules?

            No need to build everything on confidence. Take the worst case scenario
            .
            Quote: arturpraetor
            The latest, but with serious technical flaws. The most combat-ready large cruisers remained in Port Arthur or Vladivostok.

            THOSE. Is a bully more valuable than a Varyag with 14 6 inches?
            By the way, why is there a hospital at all, if Port Arthur is conditionally around the corner?
            Out of habit and for "show-off". Therefore, I wrote all this controversially. Although of course post-knowledge.
            Quote: arturpraetor
            Everyone on the Internet likes to send out the oldest and weakest ships as inpatients, for some reason forgetting that no one did

            Different situations. London God knows where. Yes, and the war with neither England nor Germany-France is not visible. And to realize that if two ships were lost lightly, apparently for those planning a war a task of unreal complexity. As well as anti-torpedo networks in Arthur omit. No one did, this is not an argument. So what. They lost the Varangian with the Korean, but they did everything like that, you can breathe out calmly.
            To fight Russia, not England with the Japanese. Why substitute.
            By the way, regarding the declaration of war. Germany declared war on the USSR, although they do not like to remember about it. With the delivery of notes and explanations. Did the fighters in Brest and other places really help ?.
  16. +1
    29 August 2018 22: 52
    We will not describe in detail the navigations of the water region where the battle of the "Varyag" and "Korean" with the Japanese squadron took place, but we only recall that from the Chemulpo raid to Fr. Pkhalmido (Iodolmi) led the fairway, which in the narrowest places was up to a kilometer wide, or even slightly more.

    But probably in vain you do not want to describe the water area in more detail. Well, where does the width from up to a kilometer come from? And if you take a card, take a ruler and measure it? For example, I got the bottleneck, it’s directly the exit from the raid, the width is 1.17 miles, i.e. 2.16 km. Further along the fairway there are no more than 2.6 km of places at all. For comparison, I recall that the diameters of Asama and Varyag circulation are 450 and 550 meters.

    We see that the Chemulpo raid itself is very small - in fact, we are talking about the water area about a mile wide and two miles long. You can go north, but this will mean that the "Varangian" is hiding "under the skirt" of foreign inpatients

    Here you can also notice that the Chemulpo raid is about 3.3 miles on the map. But there is a moment much more interesting. The fact is that this raid does not end in a dead end, as one might suggest from the text. North of us begins the course of the river Hangan! More precisely, one of the channels of the mouth of this largest river in Korea. And judging by the depths of 7-10 soot. the channel in this place is quite navigable. And if you rise a little above the globe, you can find that to the northwest of the raid is not a continent at all, but a set of large and small islands with spills and channels in total and forming the mouth of the Hangan.

    Dear author did not consider the northern direction, but a pity. There you can also find many interesting and even fun options for Russian ships. Well, or at least for one Korean, for example.

    That would not be unfounded once again I will give a link to the Chemulpo raid map: cruiserx.net/maps/map_1270.jpg
    This map has already been shown. This is the current full English map for 1904 with depths and corrections.
    1. 0
      31 August 2018 08: 05
      Quote: Saxahorse
      And if you take a card, take a ruler and measure it? For example, I got the bottleneck, it’s straight out of the raid, the width is 1.17 miles, i.e. 2.16 km.

      What can I say? Bad measure. It’s a pity that the pictures in the comments no longer cling, I would show. Just at the entrance to the fairway, given the fact that the fairway is not completely seaworthy - a kilometer.
      Quote: Saxahorse
      Dear author did not consider the northern direction, but a pity. There you can also find many interesting and even fun options for Russian ships. Well, or at least for one Korean, for example.

      Which ones? :)))) Asama enters the raid, there is a ship at the mouth of the river, she shoots him from three miles. Where is the interesting option?
      1. +1
        31 August 2018 08: 26
        Andrew, the drawings cling.
        Download as usual from the computer, below the picture is written the resolution of a picture like 800 * 600, next to a small square, put a bird in it, and the picture can be downloaded.
        In fact, there the ebbs and flows are very pronounced and strong, the pattern of the fairway should change at the same time, there is not a canal with sheer walls.
      2. +1
        31 August 2018 22: 28
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Which ones? :)))) Asama enters the raid, there is a ship at the mouth of the river, she shoots him from three miles. Where is the interesting option?

        And you rise higher. To the satellites :)) From above it is clear that to the north of the raid there are a lot of islands with straits and channels between them. And the main channel, by the way, is also north. Not a grand exit of course, trash. But since the front hooligans with bats, then it is possible through a gap in the fence. Or is it a mortal blow to the honor of a Russian officer? ;)
  17. +2
    30 August 2018 01: 17
    Quote: Wayar
    "Varyag" was built in the USA, which means the ship was something else ... but. They can't do anything good there. And this fight confirmed it. Not a single Japanese ship was sunk. Then the "Varyag" fled from the battle, together with the "Korean" and pulled out on its own. that's such a misfortune. Oh yes. Then, the raised and repaired "Varyag" served the Japanese for a long time. in fact, these heroes from the "Varyag" presented the enemy with one combat unit !!!!


    Well, here you are, "dear" Vayar, a Polish-Lithuanian from the Great Sea Power of Belarus, and we will be tired of waiting. Well, did you dig the sea for yourself, as Golovan Jack advised you? If not, then let the boats in the puddle. In general, it is not for you to talk about naval battles and their outcomes. But, in my opinion, you do not argue, but simply, out of an ingrained habit, pour mud on.
    By the way, "Varyag" and "Koreets" did not run away from the battlefield, but simply left there, depriving the Japanese of the opportunity to be proud of the sinking of these ships later. What kind of "escaped" are you talking about if the cruiser lacked elementary capabilities even for a breakthrough? Here, even for a layman, the question is completely clear. And you ... at least screw something up ... Well, God bless you, I'm not going to prove anything, in your case it's a useless exercise. But I will still say about one thing: if "Varyag", in your words, "there was something else ...", then what is the gift?
    Without any respect. fool
  18. +4
    30 August 2018 10: 03
    Damn, I overshadowed myself a bottle of tequila - I was sure that the 11th part will be directly about the fight. But Andrei remained faithful to the meticulous consideration of the issue. laughing
    We read at every step in several previous parts that Rudnev did not do this or that, because there was no order, and this justified him.
    And did he have an order to leave Chemulpo?
    When discussing the actions of Rudnev, one must proceed from what he knew at that moment, and not from our afterlife.
    And Rudnev could not know that this was not a bluff of the Japanese.
    Again, no one interfered with his maneuvering within the water area, and not stand still - and if at the same time they would fall into the ships of other countries, this is the problem of the Japanese. Actually, this could not be, since later Uriu abandoned the idea of ​​shelling and it was only about an evening attack by destroyers - and, as we recall, they did not fall into the slow Korean even in the afternoon
    in fact, Rudnev acted in an ideal way for the Japanese, you can’t imagine any better.
    1. PPD
      +1
      30 August 2018 14: 07
      Quote: Avior
      Damn, I oversaw a tequila bottle for myself-

      Debt must be given! Take more expensive !! Otherwise, what do you think to yourself. laughing
      As far as I remember, Korean’s retractable clothes. It was not necessary to chop.
      1. 0
        31 August 2018 00: 09
        100 percent agave drinks
        Hacking masts is an important matter - rangefinders, on the Varyag, in any case, were goniometric and determined the distance by the height of the ship, the optical ones were only introduced - about why they were not on the Varyag, a separate article can be written.
        However, maybe the Japanese already had optical
        1. 0
          31 August 2018 00: 22
          Do you mean Lyuzhol-Myakishev micrometers? In principle, for that battle distance they were quite enough, but given the training of the Varyag’s crew there, at least all the guns with Barr and Stroud’s optics would be of little use
          1. 0
            31 August 2018 01: 10
            not without it.
            but maybe even if the distances were correctly determined, without this, there’s no chance at all, even if you put them in twenty
        2. 0
          31 August 2018 08: 06
          Quote: Avior
          However, maybe the Japanese already had optical

          One barre-jet on all armored and Chiod and two on Asam
          1. 0
            31 August 2018 09: 02
            I understood! The Varangian was supposed to shoot at the rangefinders to the brilliance of the lenses laughing
            Already the Dalmer Varyag’s shells should have been taken.
            And then they argue here a hundred years already, but everything is simple ... wassat
    2. 0
      31 August 2018 09: 09
      Once again, read the extreme article by Andrei, in which he substantiates the impossibility of maneuvering within the water area. So it was, mind you, this is not about a modern boat, but about a cruiser and a gunboat, with steam engines ... Do you have any idea how to maneuver at speed with such a ship in a limited space? I have a bit, I was driving. I report - in those conditions, it’s complete ...
      1. 0
        31 August 2018 09: 54
        I also have, somehow in a sailor at the simulator, the boatmasters steered lol
        you would tell everyone this, but here you can read that the flooded cruiser on the fairway does not bother anyone.
        For guns and firing instruments of that time, strong maneuvering was not necessary.
        the battle was then fought in many cases, so the opponents laid down on a parallel course and aligned their speeds so that the course angle and distance did not change.
        That is exactly what Asama shot at the Varangian in a real battle.
        The accuracy of the arrows of the Japanese, standing in a narrow strait with a strong alternating current, in itself could not be very high. There were a lot of factors.
        but on the whole, of course, in the framework of the correspondence you cannot provide all the arguments.
  19. 0
    30 August 2018 13: 58
    Thank! interestingly informative!

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