Derivation-Air Defense News: Is Everything Going As Planned?

Vyacheslav Khalitov, deputy director for special equipment of the UralVagonZavod corporation, said today in Kubinka near Moscow that all statements regarding the “delay” with the introduction of the latest Russian weapons from the number of armored vehicles and artillery means could be considered untenable. According to the representative of the corporation, "everything is going according to schedule."

So, according to the schedule, according to the statements of Vyacheslav Halitov, preparations are underway for state tests of not only the latest Russian tank T-14 Armata, but also the Coalition-SV self-propelled howitzer and the Derivation-Air Defense air defense system (and not only).

From the statement of Halitov, which leads Interfax-AVN:

Everything is going according to a schedule agreed with the Ministry of Defense. We have everything going according to plan in terms of the development of promising products - not only the "Coalition", but also the "Derivations" and "Almaty". Everything has its time.

If on T-14 Armata and Coalition-SV any information from officials still slipped, then with the news about work on the Derivation recently it was, to put it mildly, not a lot. Now it is noted that manufacturers are engaged in finalizing the main systems of the destruction of the installation, which allows you to destroy not only manned assets aviation, but also UAVs, including small drones.

Thermal imaging control systems are said to allow Derivation-Air Defense to detect Drones at a distance of up to 700-800 meters. In connection with the numerous attempts of militants in Syria to carry out attacks on the Russian Khmeimim air base using drones, such capabilities of Derivation-Air Defense look very relevant.

One of the discussed features of “Derivation” is its combat 57-mm module, which is planned to be used, among other things, to protect objects from damage from MLRS missiles and even cruise missiles. The ammunition in 148 shots and the rate of fire up to 120 shots per minute, manufacturers believe, should be enough to create a fire curtain that can prevent all of the same cruise missile from being hit by a protected Derivation-Air Defense target. It was noted that the maximum target speed for the “Derivation” itself in this case cannot exceed 550 m / s.

Comments

[pariarg]

This is the same 57mm module, in a simplified form (without PWOUS LMS)
need to be put on the Terminator, which, despite the popular application concept, is rather weak in the current 30mm version

[bulvas]

And then I found:

The Armed Forces of Russia began to receive the latest T-14 Armata tanks. This was stated by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov.
“More than a hundred samples have already been contracted and are entering the army,” Borisov said on the sidelines of the Army-2018 international military-technical forum.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808211443-i7ib.htm

KUBINKA (Moscow region), August 21 - RIA Novosti. The Ministry of Defense has begun developing a new aircraft with vertical takeoff and landing, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said at the opening of the Army-2018 military-technical forum.

https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20180821/1526929317.html

[just exp]

this hundred was contracted a couple of years ago.
we just have nothing more to brag about, and they let the same thing around in a circle.
Soon they will write for the 55th time that the Air Force ordered 12 Su-57s.
but about the fact that these are the same 12 Su-57 that they ordered in the past, they were also ordered in the year before last, not a word.

[cariperpaint]

Last year, a contract was signed at the same forum. Also at 62 t80 bvm with the division of supply of 31 pieces this year and 31 in the next. And on 30 t90m with delivery also this year. Also for 12 terminators. There is no supply disruption. This is not counting the T72. The contract for 57 has not yet been signed, last year it was just announced

[just exp]

About the contract for 12 pieces with the engine of the first stage, they started writing back in 2015.

[cariperpaint]

Intent, contract of intent, contract. The road is long) wrote, I remember. That the first batch will be 12 pieces. Then all three months they whined that everything was missing only 12 pieces))) why more without an engine then?)))

[just exp]

I do not mind that with the engine of the first stage there will be only 12.
they are essentially trial and flying school desks. but with the engines of the second stage there will be only 60, instead of the promised 120. But that's not the point .
and the fact that the news about the first 12 times is served a bunch of times with different sauce and it seems that they are different contracts. but this is not so.

[Xroft]

Borisov is a talking head that often speaks only of fantasies .... he already launches UDCs in a series, and he is going to land planes on different types of aircraft-carrying ships. In fact, BMP-1 with armored personnel carriers, t-72 etc. ... promised 1000+ machines based on Almaty by 2020 ... Will we see this technique from somewhere further than the Moscow front companies?
Globally, the plan for the rearmament of the army by 2020 has not been fulfilled. The fleet did not receive the required number of frigates / destroyers / UDC (which are not even planned) one mosquito fleet without the possibility of going out into the ocean; according to ground technology, 1000 armatures are not even nearby, the kurgans are dead (shoved BMP-1 and BTR-82, T-72BZ have already broken so many copies about it) everything is bought according to the residual principle (there is no money, etc.) And how many excellent achievements were ....
Probably the only one who pleases is the airborne forces, aviation and air defense Su-35,34,30СМ, Ka-52, Mi-35, MI-28 (also an extremely controversial machine, even the operating Americans cannot afford 3 active combat helicopters). But this is the only industry that has always lived on exports .... and from there the streamlined production process. (For the money of the Arabs made shell, 30CM made for Indians, etc.)
It reminds how modern advertisers of car dealers work, advertising in the photo cars with the maximum configuration with a 3.5 liter engine, car parks, etc. .... But in fact, selling the most stuffy equipment on a pen and a rag.

[Genry]

Quote: pariarg

This is the same 57mm module, in a simplified form (without PWOUS LMS)
need to put on the Terminator,

There is the "Epoch" module, which is the most optimal for close combat (assault).

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: pariarg

"Derivations-Air Defense" detect drones at ranges up to 700-800 meters.

Is this a joke? Or am I sleeping?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

"Derivations-Air Defense" detect drones at ranges up to 700-800 meters.
Is this a joke? Or am I sleeping?

well no. What do you want with passive detection means? The UAV, of course, is not the size of the "Global Hawk"

[Sergey ippon]

Something confuses 800 m of detection - visually and then further is possible.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sergey Ippon

Something confuses 800 m of detection - visually and then further it is possible

so it depends on the size of the object. You will not notice a mini-drone beyond 100 meters unless you know where and what to look for exactly.

The possibility of detecting a small-sized unmanned aerial vehicle with thermal imaging means at ranges of at least 700 m is claimed. A full-size aircraft, depending on the operating mode of the optics, can be found at a distance of more than 6400 m.

[ANCIENT]

In this sense, there is not much sense in it, because if the target has a speed of the order of 1 km / sec, the Derivation operator will require the adversary not to send such high-speed targets anymore, because they cannot be shot down? ?? Now crowds will come running shouting, "But what about, Buk, Tor, Tunguska, Shilka, S500, and others, but the conditions of the battle are different. Therefore" Derivation "with these restrictions on the speed of the target is simply meaningless !!

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

[sivuch]

Sorry, now I’ll put a minus too, just not for the checkbox, but for terry ignorance. Do you even see who and where flies at a speed of 1 km / s

[Praetorian4]

Only a not very smart person will be offended and will leave the site because of the minuses that have been instructed for his opinion.

[Black sniper]

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!
----------------------------------------------
Look at my moisture, there are Belarusians, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, Jews, etc., etc. Your comment is not appropriate !!! And the fact that many do not like the flags of NATO is quite understandable !!!

[just exp]

and what goals fly at a speed of 1km / s?

[LMN]

Quote: ANCIENT

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

I’m here with the German flag. I didn’t notice that I would be actively minus for this.
Minus for thoughts, not for "pictures".

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ANCIENT

In this sense, there’s not much sense in it, because if the target has a speed of the order of 1 km / s

As if 1 km / s is 3600 km / h. Even the wilted 550 m / s seem too high - so that the anti-aircraft guns land the plane at a speed of 1900 km / h? This is science fiction. Air defense parameter.
And if we proceed from the purpose of "Derivation", then it will have to act on much lower-speed targets, such as UAVs and helicopters. So with the speed of the target, everything is fine. But the fact that the ZSU does not have active means of target search and guidance is, of course, a big minus. In most applications, it will require external target designation.

[Victorio]

Quote: ANCIENT

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

===
yes, somehow, did not notice such a trend. although, like you, I don’t see any sense in the minuses either

[cariperpaint]

well here she is. Standing at the exhibition

[pariarg]

Quote: cariperpaint

[well, here she is. Standing at the exhibition

I can’t understand the logic of the characters who put a minus to this post with completely neutral, informative content and 2 photos.
For such a minuser you need to take away from petty evil ones.

[cariperpaint]

Believe me, you should not look at the cons))) how to react to them)))

[pariarg]

Quote: cariperpaint

Believe me, you should not look at the cons))) how to react to them)))

it’s just unpleasant to realize that such types are involved in the discussion ..

[cariperpaint]

Spit) In the fresh photo does not put, I have. Show is not a sin))) and the cons are for children)))

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: pariarg

Quote: cariperpaint

[well, here she is. Standing at the exhibition

I can’t understand the logic of the characters who put a minus to this post with completely neutral, informative content and 2 photos.
For such a minuser you need to take away from petty evil ones.

And I have this post with 14 pluses. Something strange is happening with the site. Yesterday the field for the post was large, it was possible to read the whole quote without looking at the post, and today the field is on one line. Something does not work for the guys. But, let's hope that in the end everything will settle down. And the bell will return.
But I don’t look at the minuses or the pluses. It’s much more interesting for me when they reply to my post, criticize me, especially when reasoned.

[pariarg]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: pariarg

Quote: cariperpaint

[well, here she is. Standing at the exhibition

I can’t understand the logic of the characters who put a minus to this post with completely neutral, informative content and 2 photos.
For such a minuser you need to take away from petty evil ones.

And I have this post with 14 pluses. Something strange is happening with the site. Yesterday the field for the post was large, it was possible to read the whole quote without looking at the post, and today the field is on one line. Something does not work for the guys. But, let's hope that in the end everything will settle down. And the bell will return.
But I don’t look at the minuses or the pluses. It’s much more interesting for me when they reply to my post, criticize me, especially when reasoned.

it was written at that moment when some types put a minus ...
... of course, over time, there are more pluses ..

[Praetorian4]

Terrible then .. as if from the 50s =)

[Smoked]

In the stream, there is a direct influx of news for new weapons. Out of the extreme at the moment, the sudden development of a Russian vertical take-off aircraft for aircraft carriers. Someone obviously blew the roof.

[Engineer]

you don’t listen to Borisov, he has seven Fridays for weeks: here you don’t need a Su-47, and a fundamentally new plane that has nothing to do with the Yak-141 is for aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers that we will not build, but the plane has been included in the budget for them .

[Machete]

If you listen to the cries of some incomprehensible officials, then we "have lost everything." And nowhere for some non-core ministers, and even more so for deputies to know the exact development plans and plans of the Ministry of Defense?
The developers themselves are silent.
Or they modestly say that everything is going according to plan.
The military is also not particularly shining.
That's when the Supreme or the Minister of Defense say that everything, the fur-bearing animal, has come to some kind of development, then this is already serious.

[Alexey-74]

I hope that by 2020 we will already be discussing all kinds of equipment that entered the troops, and knowledgeable people will tell you how it behaves in the conditions of training ranges, and maybe not only ......

[cariperpaint]

They won’t tell) there, as for me personally, an important novelty is Orion-E completely doped. Here about him in general silence, it is a fact

[just exp]

but about him in more detail plz.
very curious.

[cariperpaint]

Last year, a group of Kronstads showed this half UAV, but now they’ve rolled out the whole thing. Apparently they have everything close to their logical conclusion. Infa little so far, only last year.

[just exp]

It's a good news . let's see what the shock UAV will write. it seems like the work is in full swing and has already been given for testing.
it is not clear only from whom. at first they wrote that it was the brainchild of Mig, then that Sukhikh. then again about Miga.

[cariperpaint]

I only know about Kronstad. Perhaps they are under whose wing, I am not aware of this.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: just explo

at first they wrote that it was the brainchild of Mig, then that Sukhikh. then again about Miga.

in fact, these were two different UAVs: "Skat" from MiG and "Okhotnik" from Sukhoi. "Skat" has long been lost, but the "dry" UAV can be shown, at least in the form of a model. Only this is a larger strike-class UAV (such as the American Kh-47).

Your vis-a-vis does not tell you that, but about a completely flying middle-class drone. which is almost ready for adoption.

[just exp]

I got it . I remembered about the percussion in the context of the fact that they also wrote about him that he was almost ready and will soon show.
but the fact that these are cars of different classes, I know.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: cariperpaint

Here about him in general silence, it is a fact

There are five days ahead of the forum. More than once they will write about each of the new products. This year it was embarrassing that infa went before the official opening of the event.

[cariperpaint]

They allowed journalists to work before the opening. I think that a little excitement would be stepped up.

[ANCIENT]

Quote: ANCIENT

In this sense, there is not much sense in it, because if the target has a speed of the order of 1 km / sec, the Derivation operator will require the adversary not to send such high-speed targets anymore, because they cannot be shot down? ?? Now crowds will come running shouting, "But what about, Buk, Tor, Tunguska, Shilka, S500, and others, but the conditions of the battle are different. Therefore" Derivation "with these restrictions on the speed of the target is simply meaningless !!

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

Minus me "slapped," only confirm my opinion !!!

[cariperpaint]

What can I say ?!))) I generally do not pay attention to the flag during vpn))) 10 seconds and you are from Sweden, another 10 from Zimbabwe)))

[Old bun]

Quote: ANCIENT

Quote: ANCIENT

In this sense, there is not much sense in it, because if the target has a speed of the order of 1 km / sec, the Derivation operator will require the adversary not to send such high-speed targets anymore, because they cannot be shot down? ?? Now crowds will come running shouting, "But what about, Buk, Tor, Tunguska, Shilka, S500, and others, but the conditions of the battle are different. Therefore" Derivation "with these restrictions on the speed of the target is simply meaningless !!

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

Minus me "slapped," only confirm my opinion !!!

I put you a plus sign, but it does not affect anything.
As correctly noted, we are not here for this and not for this. Never mind.
In fact: I dare to notice, the interception speed of 550 m / second is quite good.

[Old bun]

Add:
AGM-158A JASSM / AGM-158B JASSM-ER. A kick from a steep dive. CVO is 3-4 m. The warhead at a speed of 300 m / second penetrates medium density soil to a depth of 6 to 24 meters, reinforced concrete shelters up to 2 meters.

At present, the capabilities of the Derivation with its 550 meters are quite enough.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ANCIENT

Minus me "slapped," only confirm my opinion !!!

the best thing is zero attention to them. I get them myself, for a seemingly reasoned comment. They will run in a crowd, as a rule, they are not specialists at all, they will "poke", they will not write anything in response. Initially, I was against doing this mischief (minuses) on the site. I do not put them myself, and I would not advise others. But someone just warms the soul, because there is nothing more behind it, except how to "spoil" in such a small way.

Sometimes put to the cause. But there are very few of these.

About the flag. Do not know who would need this? Of course, I can only answer for myself, but I react only to what is written in the commentary. On the content. And attributes are trifles. It happens that you get inadequate with a tricolor, and a completely normal conversationalist with the Star of David, for example.

[cariperpaint]

or this is the Tornado chassis under the Shell. They say now they will put them on him

[Black sniper]

Quote: pariarg

Quote: cariperpaint

[well, here she is. Standing at the exhibition

I can’t understand the logic of the characters who put a minus to this post with completely neutral, informative content and 2 photos.
For such a minuser you need to take away from petty evil ones.

Eyes open there 11+

[cariperpaint]

Just adequate people killed inadequate during this time)))

[pariarg]

Quote: Black Sniper

Quote: pariarg

Quote: cariperpaint

[well, here she is. Standing at the exhibition

I can’t understand the logic of the characters who put a minus to this post with completely neutral, informative content and 2 photos.
For such a minuser you need to take away from petty evil ones.

Eyes open there 11+

turn on the brain - it was written when some types put a minus .. naturally, over time, there were more pluses

[Black sniper]

Quote: ANCIENT

Quote: ANCIENT

In this sense, there is not much sense in it, because if the target has a speed of the order of 1 km / sec, the Derivation operator will require the adversary not to send such high-speed targets anymore, because they cannot be shot down? ?? Now crowds will come running shouting, "But what about, Buk, Tor, Tunguska, Shilka, S500, and others, but the conditions of the battle are different. Therefore" Derivation "with these restrictions on the speed of the target is simply meaningless !!

By the way, I noticed that the site actively minuses those who are not under the Russian flag, or at least not under the Soviet one! Hidden nationalism in action! How many people were squeezed out of the site from the republics of Central Asia and the Transcaucasus, from the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet republics? ?? We look at the flag - and then we instinctively drive the person into the "skull", and he "flies" from the site! !! It's all disgusting! !!

Minus me "slapped," only confirm my opinion !!!

-------------------------------------------------- ---
Look at my moisture, there are Belarusians, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, Jews, etc., etc. Your comment is not appropriate !!! And the fact that many do not like the flags of NATO is quite understandable !!!

[ANCIENT]

In profile, take a look from Rostov-on-Don! Which NATO country is this city in? The fact that they sculpt me is not my flag, not my fault! !!

[K-50]

Make a "pilot" batch, 10 pieces, and then to Syria for testing. Place around Khmeimim and let the "booty" stand guard, and let the "Pantsiri" back up.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: K-50

and then to Syria for testing

and we no longer have polygons, where can you test? Do you have to carry the equipment far away? Just don't talk about the "combat situation". It can be imitated with high quality on the test site.

[Slon1978]

In my humble opinion, the air defense attachment in the Derivation-Air Defense was made, let's say, to promote this technology to the troops. The military does not favor the 57mm caliber too much. due to the inertia of their thinking "they do not see a niche for this caliber on the battlefield, because there are 30 mm and 125 mm", so the military should be allowed to operate this technique so that they can feel its advantages, the algorithm of application, and get a taste. It is quite clear that the air defense function in this combat module is not very effective and is secondary. It's good if there is an MSA that allows you to work on low-speed air targets, but Derivation-air defense will never become a real element of an air defense system of a military level, even a short radius, this is an auxiliary function of this machine, and the main function is work on the ground - solving tank tasks for breaking fortifications and destroying infantry, but much cheaper.

[sivuch]

In principle, I disagree. It is precisely as an air defense system that it is needed. Only, of course, with new ammunition - both with non-contact "smart" projectiles, like the Swedish 3P, and with corrected ones. First of all - work on UAVs, all kinds of harops and other little things.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Slon1978

It is clear that the air defense function in this combat module is not very effective and secondary. It’s good if there is an LMS that allows you to work on low-speed air targets, but Derivation-Air Defense will never become a real element of the military-level air defense system of even near radius, this is an auxiliary function of this machine, and the main one is work on the ground - solving tank tasks of breaking fortifications and destruction infantry, but much cheaper.

Those. anti-aircraft gun (which has a specialized control system and means of detection and guidance), in your opinion, is cheaper than if you simply put the same "Baikal" with a 57-mm cannon on the BMP (this is about the same as saying, " Tunguska "during the assault is more effective than the BMP-2)? It is the provision of close air defense that is the main task for this machine, but work on the ground - so any cannon system has the ability to work on ground targets. Cannons do not care what target they shoot, flying or driving.

[Alexey RA]

Hmmm ... 30 years have passed - and everything has returned to normal. It just got worse.
Here's what a medium-caliber self-propelled automatic anti-aircraft gun looks like normal person:

Radar OVTS centimeter range, radar UAO millimeter wave range, optics + laser rangefinder, shells with path correction.

[Apollo]

Everything goes according ...

It looks like this Khalitov is no less "wise" than Borisov ...