Military Review

Feedback on the series of articles "Cruiser" Varyag ". Fight at Chemulpo 27 January 1904 year "

97
"Brevity is the soul of wit"
A. Chekhov



After reading the nine parts of the article "Cruiser" Varyag ". The battle of Chemulpo 27 January 1904 of the year ”, I thought it necessary to briefly reveal a few questions that are most important for understanding the events described in the article.

1. Tasks of the stationary cruiser. Powers and duties of its commander.

2. Actions captain 1 rank VF Rudneva after Japan broke off diplomatic relations with Russia. Consideration of possible options for its actions and their consequences.

3. The results of the shooting of Russian ships in the battle 27 January 1904.



1. In the capital of Korea, Seoul, there was a Russian diplomatic mission headed by an envoy (in a modern way - ambassador) A.I. Pavlov. In order to ensure its activity and its protection, if necessary, in the port of Chemulpo, closest to Seoul, it was decided to keep the station cruiser and the gunboat as a messenger ship.

In the Port Arthur squadron, there was a schedule of duty for cruisers and gunboats as stationers in the port of Chemulpo.

It is known that “Varyag” came to Chemulpo to replace the cruiser “Boyarin”, which served there as a stationary officer for a certain time. And if the war with Japan had not started, in a month another cruiser, the Diana or the Pallas, would have replaced the Varyag.

The choice of a cruiser class ship stationary was not accidental - this was in accordance with the rank of the envoy of the Russian Empire.

The commander of the stationary cruiser followed the instructions of the governor in the Far East, E.I. Alekseev and the envoy in Korea A.I. Pavlova and had no authority to independently determine the need for the outbreak of hostilities.

Moreover, before leaving Port Arthur at Chemulpo, the commander of the Varyag received instructions from the governor, who were instructed: to maintain good relations with foreigners, not to interfere with the landing of Japanese troops, if it happened before a declaration of war, and not to leave Chemulpo without ordering .

2. After the meeting of 25 in January 1904 of Mr. Rudnev with envoy Pavlov in Seoul, it was decided to send the gunner "Koreets" to Port Arthur.

This decision suggests that neither Rudnev nor Pavlov were aware of all the criticality of the position of the Russian ships in Chemulpo. They were in their understanding of the current situation and, in principle, nothing was too critical.

Be vf Rudnev is a more shrewd and more determined military, he could even in an ultimatum form get Pavlov permission for the immediate departure of ships to Port Arthur.

If the Russian ships had already left 25 on January 1904 from Chemulpo, they could have slipped past the Japanese squadron of Admiral Uriu and arrived at Port Arthur. After all, the Japanese squadron gathered near Chemulpo in Asanman Bay only in the morning of January 26.

However, another, simpler, "unhurried" decision was made, and the "Koreans" left Chemulpo’s raid only in the afternoon of January 26, when the Japanese squadron had already blocked the exit from Chemulpo.

As a result, the Japanese did not let the Korean out at sea and attacked with torpedoes. The Koreans were lucky, the torpedoes didn’t get into it, and he had to return to Chemulpo.

Having received a report from the Koreans commander on the attack of his ship and, thus, the actual start of hostilities, what VF did. Rudnev?

He ordered to prepare for a possible battle, but remained anchored without vapors, even without changing the parking place to a more advantageous one for the battle.

Although the author of the article, Andrei from Chelyabinsk, is moaning, as if “the torpedo attack of Russian ships with probability 99,9% foreign stationary would not consider a violation of neutrality ... Well, two Russian ships suddenly exploded, who knows what the reason? But in fact, the Japanese admiral did not dare, in the presence of other foreign stationery, and before declaring war on attacking Russian ships on a neutral raid - the rest of January day 26 and the following night the Russian and Japanese ships stood against each other without any attack. Apparently, the Japanese admiral had a different understanding of Andrew’s opinion about the consequences of shooting on a neutral raid, about the reaction of other stationaries and their governments.

Having landed troops, in the morning of January 27, the Japanese squadron left the neutral raid Chemulpo also without any provocations.

In the morning 9.30 27 January V.F. Rudnev received an ultimatum from Admiral Uriu, demanding to leave the raid, or the Japanese will attack the Russian ships in the raid.

And Rudnev made the most wrong decision: to leave the raid and take the fight in a deliberately hopeless situation.

After all, it was known beforehand that the Japanese squadron surpasses two Russian ships several times in artillery power. What will have to go on a narrow winding fairway without the ability to maneuver and fire all overboard. That the maximum course of the detachment will be all 13 nodes and it will not be possible to break away from the Japanese ships under any circumstances.

There was, of course, a much more advantageous option: to take the fight in the raid, deploying the "Varyag" across the raid and blocking the entrance to it. The Japanese squadron could go to the raid only in two columns, and only two lead ships could lead the battle, and then only nose cannons. In this case, the "Varyag" could fire all overboard, and the "Koreyets" with their nasal 203-mm guns. Thus, the advantage in artillery passed already to the Russian ships.

In addition, in the event of damage to the leading Japanese ships, they could lose speed or control and block the way for the rest of the squadron’s ships, which would be knocked off in a heap, strewed by volleys of Russian ships for a short distance.

The variant of the effective attack of the Russian destroyers by the Japanese destroyers is also under great doubt, since in the daytime the attack of ships ready for battle from a distance of less than 3 cable (this is the range of torpedoes of that time at maximum speed) would hardly have been possible.

In general, both the contemporaries of the Russo-Japanese War, and current authors-historians, tend to greatly exaggerate the danger of a torpedo weapons of that period. The tactical and technical characteristics of the torpedoes of that time allowed them to shoot only almost at close range (from the 1-2 cable course) and at night. At least for the entire Russian-Japanese war in the daytime, not a single torpedo hit by both sides was achieved.

3. The most mysterious moment of the 27 battle of January at Chemulpo is still the question of the results of the time firing of Russian ships.

To get a more or less reliable answer to this question can only be from the Japanese archives, which are now declassified.

And if the author of the article (Andrei from Chelyabinsk) possesses such information from the Japanese archives, then he can reveal to us the most mysterious result of the described battle.
Author:
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  1. amateur2
    amateur2 19 August 2018 05: 18
    +7
    “Under the first impression, he decided to put Rudnev on trial for failing to use the neutrality of Korea to protect the ships under his command. But it soon became clear to everyone that there was no neutrality in Korea. When the directive came from St. Petersburg the death of Varyag "and" Koreyets "should be considered a heroic deed, not a crime, the governor immediately changed his point of view ...." And Stepanov, "Port Arthur"
    1. lwxx
      lwxx 19 August 2018 05: 41
      +11
      Everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the side. And after so many years ... You cannot find out the whole truth, especially since we have one look from the Japanese different.
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 19 August 2018 10: 16
      +3
      Colleague, this is losing weight.
      In general, Stepanov in his novel (very good, this cannot be taken away) collected all the gossip that went around in Arthur at one time.
  2. 1536
    1536 19 August 2018 05: 29
    +13
    The ships of Britain, France and the USA also stood in Chemulpo. Captain Rudnev, on the part of the captains of the ships of these countries, was also ordered to leave the raid so that they would not be in danger if the Japanese attack the Russian cruiser. And where are the mistakes when there was a usual conspiracy? The feat of the Varyag seamen is immortal, as if someone had not tried to tarnish it.
    1. Cat
      Cat 19 August 2018 05: 59
      +8
      By conspiracy?
      Nobody hides the fact that the British were pushing Rudnev to accept the Japanese ultimatum! The Germans, Italians and French were also not eager to be in the center of hostilities. The battle took place, the consequences are known to us. I am bothered by only one decision of Rudny to flood the Cruiser, and not blow it up like a Korean.
      By the breakthrough! Here the author of the rights did not have enough captain Voryag's insight, decisiveness and, perhaps, dashing. But the courage of Rudny was in moderation.
      By feat! No one disputes the feat of the crews of the Varangian and Korean.
      Sincerely, Kitty!
      1. avt
        avt 19 August 2018 09: 59
        +2
        Quote: Kotischa
        The Germans, Italians and French were also not eager to be in the center of hostilities.

        Americana forgot.
        Quote: Kotischa
        I am bothered by only one decision of Rudny to flood the Cruiser, and not blow it up like a Korean.

        Well it's easy, see
        Quote: Kotischa
        The Germans, Italians and French were also not eager to be in the center of hostilities.
        regarding the senior’s reaction to the raid on this issue.
      2. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 19 August 2018 21: 22
        0
        In the conditions of ultimatum, the captain of the Varyag had to stay on the roads and ignore all the recommendations and threats. If the Japanese shot the Varyag in the raid, so the whole world was shown Japan's anressiveness and disregard for world law, which would fully pay off the sacrifice. Why V.F. Rudnev obediently fulfilled Japanese decrees and requests of the "allies", and did not act in his own interests, this is already a reproach. And the honors to the crew and the captain of the "Varyag" were created on the basis of selfish telegrams and reports from the scene, for all the governors wanted to smooth over the blame of what had happened, along with the torpedoed three battleships in Port Arthur ... After some time and interviewing witnesses and finding out the actual events, captain V.F. Rudnev was fired without a fuss ...
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 August 2018 21: 32
          +3
          Quote: Vladimir 5
          If the Japanese shot the Varangian in a raid, Japan’s aggressiveness and disregard for world law were shown to the whole world.

          In fact, no one would have lifted a finger, unless foreign hospitals were hurt, and they decided to leave if the Varangian remained in the raid
    2. unBEARable
      unBEARable 22 August 2018 14: 58
      +2
      I did not think about the need to leave the raid. But if so, what prevented Rudnev from transmitting a message to the neighbors: I remain in the raid in a favorable position, I consider the exit and breakthrough to be disastrous. I’m not responsible for the actions of the Japanese and the threat to your safety, if you are afraid, leave the raid. I’ll die, but I will not give up.
  3. Comrade
    Comrade 19 August 2018 06: 05
    +7
    The most mysterious moment of the battle of January 27 at Chemulpo is still the question of the results of the hour-fire of Russian ships.

    "The nut of knowledge is hard, but still, we are not used to retreating" laughing
    Firstly, the reports of the commanders of the Japanese ships did not say a word about hitting their ships. Secondly, we have evidence of a third, absolutely uninterested party, the English attaché Captain ECT Troubridge (RN). This gentleman personally observed the course of the battle, and in the report he specially highlighted a few lines about the effectiveness of the firing of Russian ships, boiling down to the fact that the Varyag and the Korean never hit any of the Japanese ships.
    You can say as much as you like that hits are actually werebut for some reason the Japanese hid. But why lie to the British intelligence officer, who saw everything with his own eyes and wrote reports, including for the intelligence department of the British Admiralty?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 August 2018 08: 24
      +11
      Greetings, dear Valentine!
      Quote: Comrade
      But why lie to the British intelligence officer, who saw everything with his own eyes and wrote reports, including for the intelligence department of the British Admiralty?

      Not for the sake of argument, but only by the will of the wife who sent me - Trubridge here is not at all the ultimate truth. For example, an armor-piercing projectile that exploded inside the hull is not visible at all to an outside observer (this is from the rules of firing, that is, specially trained observers using optics do not see this. Therefore, for example, if a salvo of 4 guns gave 1 flight and 2 short-range , it should be considered that the 4-th shell hit the target, although no one saw this).
      In addition, pyroxylin shells exploded without smoke, that is, they were generally poorly visible. Thus, Trubridge's words can be understood not as "there were no hits at all", but as "there were no noticeable consequences of hits", but these are still different things
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 19 August 2018 16: 28
        +2
        My respect, dear Andrew!
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Trubridge is not the ultimate truth. So, for example, an armor-piercing projectile that exploded inside the hull is generally not visible to an outside observer (this is from the rules of fire fighting, that is, specially trained observers using optics do not see this

        I would agree with you if I had not read the Trubridge report in full. The fact is that he did not limit himself to simply observing the fall of Russian shells from afar, and after the battle he made some efforts to refine his observations in kind.
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 19 August 2018 16: 53
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Trubridge is not the ultimate truth.

        Andrei Nikolaevich hi , somehow strange ... Trubridge is not an interested party, not an authority, the Japanese are an interested party, so they could talk about the not-so-empty cellars of the Varyag (the Japanese claim that the Varyag fired about 160 shells of the main battery and about 50 -ti 75mm). In addition, they (the Japanese) could have classified the damage to their ships in this battle ... The question is - why? Indeed, despite the parsimony of the Japanese sources of damage to ships after the battle at Cape Shantung are known, Tsushima are also known ... Why not trust them in assessing the battle with the Varyag? Maybe the shooting of the Russians was really disgusting and inaccurate? And there were no those "thousands of shells fired at the enemy" from Rudnev's report, which is two and a half times more than the total consumption of shells from all Japanese ships ... Which is also very strange request
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Not for the sake of argument

        PS. Of course, I will wait for the end of the cycle, but it is precisely in assessing this moment (getting into Japanese ships) that I will not agree with you. Here it is already necessary to take into account all available information and it is not worth neglecting the data of the opposite side. this is the essence of the search for truth, without
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Thus, Trubridge's words can be understood not as "there were no hits at all", but as "there were no noticeable consequences of hits", but these are still different things

        discrepancies ...
        Best regards hi
  4. Conductor
    Conductor 19 August 2018 06: 19
    0
    they shot often, but only the fish scared.
  5. Comrade
    Comrade 19 August 2018 06: 30
    +3
    At least during the day the Russian-Japanese war, not a single torpedo hit by both sides was achieved.

    The Japanese, who sank the battleship "Prince Suvorov" during daylight hours, do not agree with you.
    1. saigon
      saigon 19 August 2018 07: 23
      +12
      Sorry, but drowned almost lost artillery and the ability to maneuver the ship.
      So this is probably not an indicator.
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 19 August 2018 16: 32
        +1
        Quote: saigon
        Sorry, but drowned almost lost artillery and the ability to maneuver the ship

        The speech in the text under discussion is not about the state of "Suvorov", but about the fact that, according to the author, in the daytime not a single torpedo hit was achieved by both sides
        As you can see, there were hits. And if you look at the photo of the death of an armadillo, you will see that it was so light that details are clearly visible on the bridge of the Japanese ship from which the photograph was taken.
    2. pin_code
      pin_code 19 August 2018 07: 26
      +1
      question .. In what condition was "Suvorov" at this time ???
    3. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 15: 33
      0
      This happened in 7 PM hours, it was already getting dark. No trace of torpedoes was visible.
    4. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 19 August 2018 17: 04
      +1
      Quote: Comrade
      The Japanese, who sank the battleship "Prince Suvorov" during daylight hours, do not agree with you.

      Valentine hi , it is so, but somehow the difference between the one that lost all the artillery (acre 1-75mm cannon in the stern plutongs) and the practically uncontrollable battleship (which at that time were the ruins of "Suvorov") and the ship on a decent run firing from everything that shoots , essential what wink
      So it would be most correct to admit that there was no successful attack during the day by the destroyers ... hi
  6. avt
    avt 19 August 2018 07: 56
    +5
    well if
    "Brevity is the soul of wit"
    A. Chekhov
    I believe! I believe in the brevity of the author’s knowledge of the topic and the irrepressible desire to be noted in it!
    The commander of the stationary cruiser followed the instructions of the governor in the Far East, E.I. Alekseev and the envoy in Korea A.I. Pavlova and had no authority to independently determine the need for the outbreak of hostilities.
    and further
    Be vf Rudnev is a more shrewd and more determined military, he could even in an ultimatum form get Pavlov permission for the immediate departure of ships to Port Arthur.
    The author would have to ...., either put on his pants, or remove the cross. "And it seems like ANY whim in the Navy can hammer a bolt on the higher authorities, and even really change the policy of the state, at his own discretion, confiscating, under escort, probably, the embassy of your country from any state.
    He ordered to prepare for a possible battle, but remained anchored without vapors, even without changing the parking place to a more advantageous one for the battle.
    bully Yes, just a pest! Well, you don’t want to burn coal in a foreign port in the pre-war time with unclear prospects for bunkering - throw it overboard! bully
    In the morning 9.30 27 January V.F. Rudnev received an ultimatum from Admiral Uriu, demanding to leave the raid, or the Japanese will attack the Russian ships in the raid.

    And Rudnev made the most wrong decision: to leave the raid and take the fight in a deliberately hopeless situation.

    After all, it was known beforehand that the Japanese squadron surpasses two Russian ships several times in artillery power. What will have to go on a narrow winding fairway without the ability to maneuver and fire all overboard. That the maximum course of the detachment will be all 13 nodes and it will not be possible to break away from the Japanese ships under any circumstances.

    There was of course a much more advantageous option: to accept the battle in the raid, deploying the "Varangian" across the raid and blocking the entrance to it.
    wassat A gun from the other side to bring ashore and heroically shoot at the adversary? bully No, the sinful Az understands -
    The nut of knowledge is hard, but still
    Maybe something like an author, well, before giving such an imperishable one, to read something from historical facts about what and how to Rudnev in a neutral port, in the presence of other foreign inpatients, for example, at least a senior on a raid would say? Although this campaign is not a big deal.
    1. alstr
      alstr 19 August 2018 09: 17
      +1
      We add that standing across is an excellent target for destroyers, which, under the guise of a battle with the main forces, can launch a torpedo attack on a practically stationary ship in its largest projection.
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 19 August 2018 10: 40
        +4
        Gg attack by cruiser destroyer day is a sophisticated form of suicide
        1. alstr
          alstr 20 August 2018 09: 58
          +1
          This is if the cruiser is against only destroyers, but if the cruiser is fighting with other cruisers, then the chances are very good (especially if the cruiser is cramped in maneuver).
          1. Nehist
            Nehist 20 August 2018 11: 10
            0
            Yeah ... you seemingly badly represent the destroyers of that time, they were forgiven through and through with steel 75mm blanks, and the hit of a 6 "high-explosive projectile is simply fatal for many! And yes, destroyers in those conditions also solved their main advantage of stealth, speed and maneuverability. made them just perfect targets
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 20 August 2018 12: 33
              0
              they were thoroughly forgiven with steel 75mm bars

              Quite right, and there is not much harm to be said from them.
              and hitting a 6 "high-explosive shell is simply fatal for many!

              Couldn't it be a list of these very "many"?
              And yes the destroyers in those conditions also solved their main advantage of the stealth speed and maneuverability.

              And where did they go? I mean, speed, maneuverability and secrecy ... It seems that everything is exactly the opposite. Cretaceous, islets, skerries ... an ideal place for destroyers.
              1. alstr
                alstr 20 August 2018 14: 00
                +1
                I will add a little.
                1. The speed of the Japanese destroyers was about 30 knots. Real - 2-3 knots less.
                2. If 6-inches are occupied, then Varyag will have 6-75 mm and 4 - 47 mm guns left on board (and if they remain, because they can be knocked out).

                If we look at the collisions of destroyers in the OW, we will see that using similar weapons (i.e. 75 mm and 47/57 mm guns) to sink another destroyer takes a long time and a large advantage in power. So it was with the Guardian and the Bold.

                It should be borne in mind that our guns were weaker than the Japanese (because they had less charge).

                The only thing that can interfere with the attack is getting into the car.

                Accordingly, having 7 destroyers (two detachments of 4 and one damaged), you can attack under cover of battle from the bow and stern angles (to disperse the fire).
                This is very likely to allow the release of torpedoes in the Cruiser and Kanlodka. But the result is how torpedoes work. But to achieve one or two hits is real.
                1. Nehist
                  Nehist 20 August 2018 15: 07
                  0
                  I’ll tell you even more that the 75mm RIF guns didn’t have any high-explosive shells at all, but only blanks and segmented ones. Japanese destroyers knocked out our destroyers a very quick example of the same, the Guardian and the Terrible (and not the Brave one will correct you)
                  1. Senior seaman
                    Senior seaman 20 August 2018 16: 12
                    0
                    only discs and segment

                    Colleague, are you sure about segment ones? Just never heard, and Shirokorad writes:
                    Until the 1905 year, the armor-piercing shells weighing 75 kg and 50 length of firearms were only part of the 4,9 / 2,7 mm gun. At a distance of 915 m, they pierced 117-mm armor normal.

                    As for the Japanese, I could be wrong here, but it seems that they, too, had the main armor at the beginning of the war.
                    1. Nehist
                      Nehist 21 August 2018 00: 50
                      0
                      Then a colleague recommend turning to the History of the material part of artillery.
                      Compiled already in 1907 by the Assistant Inspector of Classes at the Mikhailovsky Artillery School, a full-time military teacher at the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy, Colonel A. Nilus
                      1. Senior seaman
                        Senior seaman 21 August 2018 09: 26
                        0
                        Hmm ... I haven’t seen 1907. There is 1904 with the same name on the network, but there it does not apply to naval artillery at all.
                2. Moore
                  Moore 21 August 2018 04: 22
                  0
                  Quote: alstr
                  Accordingly, having 7 destroyers (two detachments of 4 and one damaged), you can attack under the cover of a battle from the bow and stern angles (to disperse the fire) .This is very likely to fire torpedoes at Kreiser and Kanlodka. But the result is how torpedoes work. But to achieve one or two hits is real.

                  If, as the author suggests, "Varyag" stood in the fairway (would it represent a fixed target - a gunner's dream?), Then he could lower the anti-torpedo nets and knock out the destroyers with an anti-mine caliber. But with a high degree of probability it would have been drowned earlier by the Asama.
              2. Nehist
                Nehist 20 August 2018 15: 04
                0
                Gg, well, not so much !!! Due to the very tight lineup, destroyers received boiler damage, due to which the main advantages of SPEED were solved !! And yes, where will they develop at least 20 knots in the strait of the bat? Cretaceous islands, skerries are all good for turbine-mounted destroyers! With steam installations, this does not work out. So do not apply the PMV tactics to the REV
                1. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 20 August 2018 16: 17
                  0
                  Due to the very tight lineup, destroyers received boiler damage

                  And do you remember many such cases?
                  Cretaceous islands, skerries are all good for turbine-mounted destroyers!

                  Nah, turbines for such things are a bit big.
                2. Alf
                  Alf 20 August 2018 19: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Nehist
                  the bat

                  Flying fish.
        2. Alf
          Alf 20 August 2018 19: 28
          0
          Quote: Nehist
          Gg attack by cruiser destroyer day is a sophisticated form of suicide

          When the destroyer team goes into battle with the expectation of "later", then Yes.
          But if the crew of the destroyer with the intention of putting a torpedo at any cost, then the chances of getting sharply increased. Yes, and the Japanese in the REV have shown themselves to be worthy opponents with their fanatical faith in Mikado and their willingness to always give their lives for the Divine.
      2. Alf
        Alf 19 August 2018 21: 16
        0
        Quote: alstr
        We add that standing across is an excellent target for destroyers, which, under the guise of a battle with the main forces, can launch a torpedo attack on a practically stationary ship in its largest projection.

        For this, a Korean could perfectly apply.
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 20 August 2018 09: 34
          0
          Excuse me, I didn’t understand why the “Korean” could be used?
          1. Alf
            Alf 20 August 2018 19: 22
            0
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            Excuse me, I didn’t understand why the “Korean” could be used?

            To drive off the destroyers. And although the idea of ​​a transverse Varyag is delusional, in order to save this "grandiose" idea, this is the only way to apply the cannon boat. laughing
            Only one thing is not clear. If Rudnev complained about the quiet course of the Korean (apparently, before the battle, he did not know about this factor), then it is not clear what the hell he dragged him with for a breakthrough? It is a pity, of course, for the old man, but an abandoned-drowned-blown-up Korean could provide the Varangian with TWO fire divisions instead of one, a faster move and an additional substitution of the commandants and stokers.
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 21 August 2018 09: 35
              +1
              To drive away destroyers.

              He doesn’t actually have rapid-fire obsolete artillery.
              If Rudnev complained about the quiet move of the Korean

              Did he complain? Actually, no matter how slow the "Koreets" is, but its speed was differently more than 9 knots, with which the "Varyag" was going
              However, I hope Andrey will reach this point.
              what for he dragged him with him on a breakthrough?

              Vsevolod Fedorovich will not look into your head, but ...
              Purely my opinion, not supported by anything. "Varyag" goes ahead and diverts the fire to itself. (to some extent it happened, they never hit the Koreyets), meanwhile the gunboat comes closer and from 8 "like ... the guns, of course, are old, but they didn't complain about the Iwate under Ulsan ...
              1. Alf
                Alf 21 August 2018 19: 30
                0
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                meanwhile, the gunboat comes closer and from 8 "like ... the cannons, of course, are old, but there was no complaint about the Iwate under Ulsan.

                And what prevented you from approaching?
                1. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 22 August 2018 16: 06
                  0
                  Rudnev deployed his cruiser.
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 19 August 2018 10: 40
      +3
      9. None of the officers in the fleet shall extend his authority beyond the limits prescribed by law. It is not considered an excess of power when an individual chief in emergency circumstances takes on his own responsibility any special measure, and then proves that it was necessary in the forms of state benefit, and that he could not without visible danger, harm to the service, or for the honor of the Russian flag, to postpone the adoption of this measure until the permission of the highest authorities.
      Korean attack is an emergency
      1. PPD
        PPD 19 August 2018 11: 10
        0
        And a little everyday trifle is to prove all this.
        Rights are often not the one who is right, but who has more rights.
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 19 August 2018 12: 16
          0
          And after the 26th, it was no longer necessary to prove anything, because on the night of 26-27 the Japanese atokavali at an Arthurian squadron. So Rudnev would also receive thanks
          1. Cat
            Cat 19 August 2018 14: 47
            0
            In this regard, I support the respected Nekst (if I screwed up with a nickname, I repent).
            Rudnev was bound hand and foot with instructions and the will of the messenger, but he did not show sound initiative. But tea was a captain of the first rank and not the first day in the fleet. Well, I have such sadness, although I understand that from the situation in which our baskets ended up it was possible to get out to a man with remarkable abilities and extraordinary talent.
            Alas, Rudnev did not possess them (talents and abilities), so he went to die in the light of day!
            About the honor? It was possible, as captain of the frigate Rafail, to lower the flag in a hopeless situation and surrender. Thus save your life and the lives of sailors. Rudnev acted differently, but we don’t know what Napoleon did. So what to say about a hopeless situation (sitting on the couch) ......?
            I propose to wait until the end of Andrey's story! Brevity, alas, won't help us! Only cats breed quickly, so we step ourselves on the "hurry" and wait!
            Sincerely, Kitty!
          2. Andy
            Andy 19 August 2018 14: 58
            +1
            sorry Rudnev had neither a crystal ball nor a time machine ...
          3. PPD
            PPD 19 August 2018 21: 40
            +1
            He would get a prison term. For amateur work. The use of torpedoes still needs to be proved.
    3. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 16: 52
      +3
      To your comments, I can say that you yourself, before writing here, would be nice to read the article by Andrey, to which my review is written.
      As for the possible objections of Rudnev to the envoy Pavlov, then I set out this as perhaps the only option for the development of events in which the Russian ships could escape from Chemulpo.
      All other options led to events that actually happened.
    4. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 17: 03
      +3
      Quote: avt
      He ordered to prepare for a possible battle, but remained anchored without vapors, even without changing the parking place to a more advantageous one for the battle.
      bully Yes, just a pest! Well, you don’t want to burn coal in a foreign port in the pre-war time with unclear prospects for bunkering - throw it overboard!

      Obviously, accepting the battle while anchoring is the pinnacle of your knowledge of naval tactics. And in this you stand together with K.1 p. Rudnev on the same level / on the same platform. The main thing here is to save coal :)))
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 August 2018 08: 10
    +10
    "Brevity is the soul of wit"

    Uh-huh. And the mother-in-law of the fee :)))) But here's the bad luck - in my series of articles I set myself the task of answering all the main questions about the "Varyag", and there are just a LOT of them. That is why you have to paint everything in great detail.
    Such a decision indicates that neither Rudnev nor Pavlov realized the criticality of the position of the Russian ships in Chemulpo.

    Here is the "wonderful" conclusion of the short article - despite the fact that it was Rudnev who strongly suggested that Pavlov withdraw the ships from Chemulpo, it turned out that Rudnev "does not realize the criticality of the situation" :)))) Well, Pavlov's will, it is actually a law for Rudnev, if anything.
    Apparently, the Japanese admiral had a different understanding, diverging from Andrei’s opinion, about the consequences of shooting in a neutral raid, about the reaction of other in-patients and the governments of their countries to this.

    Now the 10-th article will be just dedicated to the night of 26 / 27 of January :)))))
    There was of course a much more advantageous option: to accept the battle in the raid, deploying the "Varangian" across the raid and blocking the entrance to it.

    It is precisely because of this that I am writing a detailed series of articles - so that people do not write such nonsense. Even the Knock Nevis supertanker (length - 458 with more than meters) could not block the Chemulpo fairway :))))
    As for the option - to remain in the raid, then yes, we will analyze it. What you wrote about this ... well ... Actually, I can only repeat it - I am writing a detailed series of articles just so that people do not write such nonsense
    The most mysterious moment of the battle of January 27 at Chemulpo is still the question of the results of the hour-fire of Russian ships.

    Yes, in general, no, as there are no special mysteries here
    1. avt
      avt 19 August 2018 08: 16
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      - I am writing a detailed series of articles

      wassat
      You have no right to boss! The elder ordered ...
      "Brevity is the soul of wit"
      A. Chekhov
      The author! He does not respect Chekhov! bully
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 19 August 2018 10: 44
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Here is the "wonderful" conclusion of the short article - despite the fact that it was Rudnev who strongly suggested that Pavlov withdraw the ships from Chemulpo, it turned out that Rudnev "does not realize the criticality of the situation" :)))) Well, Pavlov's will, it is actually a law for Rudnev, if anything.

      Maritime charter (1853)
      Art. 9. None of the officers in the fleet shall extend his authority beyond the limits prescribed by law. It is not considered an excess of power when an individual chief in emergency circumstances takes responsibility for any special measure, and then proves that it was necessary in the form of state benefit, and that he could not without apparent danger, harm to the service, or for the honor of the Russian flag, to postpone the adoption of this measure until the permission of the highest authorities.
    3. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 16: 16
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Here is the "wonderful" conclusion of the short article - despite the fact that it was Rudnev who strongly suggested that Pavlov withdraw the ships from Chemulpo, it turned out that Rudnev "does not realize the criticality of the situation" :)))) Well, Pavlov's will, it is actually a law for Rudnev, if anything.

      This part of my article, dear Andrei, apparently did not read it very carefully.
      It seems that there were no witnesses to the conversation between Pavlov and Rudnev, so we do not know for certain how urgent Rudnev’s proposal to pick up the diplomatic mission and leave.
      But it is known that defending one's opinion in front of the authorities was just not typical for Rudnev. Based on this, it can be assumed that Rudnev really suggested Pavlov, in a calm tone, to leave for Port Arthur. Pavlov, on the other hand, had a wrong opinion about the situation and he did not agree. However, he offered to send the "Korean" to Port Arthur with a report, with which Rudnev calmly agreed. And as you know, there was no rush to send the Koreyets later.
      Therefore, the fact that Rudnev did not strongly insist on the immediate departure of the ships from Chemulpo is obvious.
      Meanwhile, it was this delay that became fatal for the Russian ships.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 19 August 2018 19: 10
        0
        But it is known that upholding one’s opinion before the authorities was just not typical for Rudnev.

        do you mean any particular episode?
    4. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 16: 31
      -3
      "There was, of course, a much more advantageous option: to take the battle in the raid, deploying the Varyag across the raid and blocking the entrance to it."

      It is precisely because of this that I am writing a detailed series of articles - so that people do not write such nonsense. Even the Knock Nevis supertanker (length - 458 with more than meters) could not block the Chemulpo fairway :))))

      It can be seen that the author of many articles on ships and naval battles, Andrei, never managed a water vehicle larger than an air mattress. Otherwise, he would not have seriously stated that a cruiser standing across the Chemulpo fairway doesn’t interfere with maneuvering the entire cruiser squadron :)))
      I advise Andrei to study information at least about the radii of circulation of the ships in question.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 August 2018 17: 51
        +3
        Quote: Oleg Fudin
        Otherwise, he would not have seriously stated that a cruiser standing across the Chemulpo fairway doesn’t interfere with maneuvering the entire cruiser squadron :)))

        Why doesn’t it interfere? It interferes, but exactly until it is drowned :))) And drown it, standing still, very, very fast, despite the fact that it is not necessary to get closer to Varyag for this. After that, the presence of a Varyag drowned in the fairway will complicate navigation a little, but the fairway will not block :)))
        Quote: Oleg Fudin
        I advise Andrei to study information at least about the radii of circulation of the ships in question.

        Thank. In turn, I can advise at least a little study of the battle tactics of steam fleets of the beginning of the 20 century - the times of Lissa are long gone
        1. Oleg Fudin
          19 August 2018 20: 03
          -4
          Andrei, you persist, obviously not knowing about one historical fact.
          Japanese Admiral Uriu, unlike K.1 p. Rudnev carefully planned his actions, providing for various developments. What outlined in writing.
          In the event that Russian ships would break into the sea (as it actually happened), he planned to meet them in a place that would allow them to locate their ships in the most advantageous way and fully realize their fire advantage.
          And in case the Russian ships remained in the raid, Uriu planned to enter the raid with 2 columns of his ships (the width of the fairway did not allow more) and destroy the Russians right in the harbor.
          Therefore, it is precisely this scenario of events that I set out.
          Since, apparently, you do not know this, then you fell into fantasies. I wonder what the Japanese would have quickly sunk "Varyag", three bow guns of two head cruisers?
          And about the width of the fairway: you make such confident statements that the standing (sunken) cruiser on the fairway complicates a bit ...
          Probably you, while managing a ship of a class cruiser and above, have already easily bypassed many of these objects on narrow fairways :))
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 August 2018 21: 34
            +4
            Quote: Oleg Fudin
            And in case the Russian ships remain in the raid, Uriu planned to enter the raid with 2-me columns of his ships

            You were mistaken a little more than completely. And I am surprised by the fact that you know the order of Uriu to fight with the Varangian, but you did not manage to read it, although it consists literally of 2 paragraphs.
      2. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 19 August 2018 19: 16
        +2
        Otherwise, he would not have seriously stated that a cruiser standing across the Chemulpo fairway doesn’t interfere with maneuvering the entire cruiser squadron :)))

        And where did a colleague Andrei write this, in the sense of "the maneuvers of an entire squadron"?
        There the width is more than a kilometer, well, if the cruiser would be flooded - it would become one more can. Nothing terrible, they are not measured there anyway.
        to study information at least about the radii of circulation of the ships in question.

        And why start this very circulation?
  8. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 August 2018 09: 16
    -1
    Andrey from Chelyabinsk writes well, but too wordy. Not Chekhov, but Leo Tolstoy. "A lot of beeches". The author of this article is much more concise, which makes it possible to more clearly understand his position and, accordingly, agree or disagree with his arguments. On the fact of the presentation of the controversial points, I put a plus in the article.
    1. avt
      avt 19 August 2018 09: 55
      +5
      Quote: Aviator_
      Andrey from Chelyabinsk writes well, but too wordy. Not Chekhov, but Leo Tolstoy. "A lot of beeches".

      bully Well, this is not his problem, but your trouble, since the brain does not perceive specific technical calculations and historically confirmed facts, and even in conjunction with each other in time.
      Quote: Aviator_
      The author of this article is much more concise, which makes it possible to more clearly understand his position and, accordingly,

      request Someone watching documentaries, someone video clips.
      Quote: Aviator_
      In fact, the presentation of controversial issues put a plus article.

      bully Some
      Quote: Aviator_
      controversial issues
      in the current article, no, from the word in general, but there is an elementary illiteracy, which resulted in ... "trizers" fantasy based on historical events.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 19 August 2018 17: 18
        +1
        [/ quote] your trouble, since the brain does not perceive specific technical calculations and historically confirmed facts [quote]

        Well, you shouldn’t get personal here, Moveton, though. And about clip thinking, too, it somehow turned out badly on your part.
        There is such a thing - the method of supplying material. You can chat with the details of anything you want. Here in a number of scientific journals there is a mandatory requirement: after the article itself, conclusions must be formulated, no more than 5-6 points. Very good requirement. Will you also blame these editors for clip thinking?
        1. avt
          avt 19 August 2018 18: 28
          -2
          Quote: Aviator_
          Here in a number of scientific journals there is a mandatory requirement: after the article itself, conclusions must be formulated, no more than 5-6 points.

          Powerful! I caught it right! bully Only here is the misfortune
          Quote: Aviator_
          no more than 5-6 points.
          well which
          Quote: Aviator_
          Very good requirement.

          go AFTER
          Quote: Aviator_
          supply of material.
          exactly
          Quote: Aviator_
          after the article itself

          And not separately, like the author in this opus issued. And in general (OH HORROR!) If they read Andrey more closely, where there are many beeches, he draws conclusions and ... even numbers them! We look at an example of the conclusions on the facts in the sources described
          1. "Korean" was already out of danger;

          2. The 9 th detachment of the destroyers (and, probably, also the cruisers) are located in the immediate vicinity of the Varyag and the Koreans.
          More about
          Quote: Aviator_
          Will you also blame these editors for clip thinking?

          Well, about
          Quote: Aviator_
          Moveton
          in part
          Quote: Aviator_
          Well, you shouldn’t get personal here

          And actually after
          Quote: Aviator_
          In fact, the presentation of controversial issues put a plus article.
          и
          Quote: Aviator_
          Andrey from Chelyabinsk writes well, but too wordy. Not Chekhov, but Leo Tolstoy. "A lot of beeches".

          After reading your comment, do you order the Martians to contact ?? wassat Or did you write this under torture, or under the hypnosis of the same Marcians? If yes, then we will fight for you with the whole world, all over the world here and at every kilometer. So take all the same advice, well, if the topic really interests - spend time and read it without being distracted, "many beeches" without interruption and jumps on the sites. Then there will be something specifically on the topic and discuss if you find these "controversial moments".
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 19 August 2018 19: 10
            +2
            I see no reason in further communication. Success in combat and political training.
  9. Silhouette
    Silhouette 19 August 2018 10: 14
    +3
    Rudnev knew perfectly well that if he had stayed in the port, all foreign ships would have left the port and the cruiser was waiting for inglorious death. Having blocked the fairway, he would have received an international scandal and accusation of cowardice in the fact that he is hiding behind the backs of European states. He also had a real idea of ​​the combat capability of the cruiser, its technical condition and the training of artillerymen. Therefore, he made the right decision - to go out, depict the battle and self-destruct with the least losses.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 19 August 2018 10: 43
      -2
      And who prevented Rudnev from leaving the hospital to leave with them?
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 19 August 2018 11: 25
        +2
        Where to go? And then what? Funny and useless trick. Well, then, the concept of honor for Rudnev was not an empty word.
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 19 August 2018 12: 21
          -2
          What is honor then? It is incompetent to drown your ships ?! After all, contemporaries who knew the situation much better condemned Rudnev precisely for the fact that he behaved passively and nothing smarter than to indicate the appearance of an attempt to break through and flooded the cruiser. Gg especially delivers that they decided to consider the feat only after foreign newspapers wrote about the fight !!!))))
          1. Cat
            Cat 19 August 2018 14: 58
            +1
            Once again I agree with Next!
            Martial art teaches to win, not die

            I don’t remember who A.V. Suvorov spoke of, but the essence is as follows.

            “This is not to be a general.”
            - Aleksanr Vasilyevich, for what you judge so.
            - Papers and instructions stuck mind.
            - So the will of Your Excellency ....
            - Savvy, onslaught, victory. If the first is not given, the second will not succeed, the third will not happen!

            Maybe somewhere wrong I wrote from memory.
            Sincerely, Kitty!
      2. avt
        avt 19 August 2018 14: 39
        +1
        Quote: Nehist
        And who prevented Rudnev from leaving the hospital to leave with them?

        Well, look and find out that the commander of Taelbot, as a senior on the road, answered him.
    2. avt
      avt 19 August 2018 14: 43
      +2
      Quote: Silhouette
      Rudnev knew perfectly well that if he had stayed in the port, all foreign ships would have left the port and the cruiser was waiting for inglorious death.

      Actually, he was officially told this by the elder on the roadstead Bailey, it seems - we will leave and sort it out in the harbor, well, naturally we will express our protest, or go for a couple with the "Korean" and leave the "Sungari".
    3. Oleg Fudin
      19 August 2018 15: 48
      +2
      International law in 1904 should not be equated with that in 2014, drawing an analogy with Ukraine. The officer of the Russian fleet must first of all worry about the interests of Russia and the security of the ships and people entrusted to him. And the inpatients of other countries have their own commanders who, firstly, Rudnev did not have a decree, and secondly had to decide for themselves what to do in this situation, each in their own way.
      1. Alf
        Alf 19 August 2018 21: 22
        +1
        Quote: Oleg Fudin
        The officer of the Russian fleet must first of all worry about the interests of Russia and the security of the ships and people entrusted to him.

        Unfortunately, in those years the top of the Republic of Ingushetia, which can also include naval officers, was more concerned about what they would say in London and Paris.
  10. PPD
    PPD 19 August 2018 10: 52
    +6
    Of course, not to Rudnev, but to keep a cruiser with a gunboat on the eve of the war with an almost 100% chance of losing them is utterly stupid. You need to think in advance. If the General Staff, the governor, the ambassador does not occur to someone who is their doctor. Money, Life, nonsense is the main status to observe.
    Well, the low ambassador turned out to be, but what would the battleship have to send?
    Now about the withdrawal of ships from the port.
    Are you serious? Simple captain, send all the bosses and go wherever I want?
    And if I were mistaken, life in hard labor would end.
    This is all pure knowledge.
    Now about Uriu.
    Where did it come from that he certainly would not have carried out his threats? Personally, Uriu said? Over a cup of sake? Rudnev didn’t go out, would he stumble back home to Japan? No, of course!
    Is the Englishman an unbiased side? Hm !!
    By the way, there was even a simulation of this situation. And it turned out that even one hit is an outrageous result.
    By the way, he personally climbed all the ships, Englishman? Interrogated all the sailors?
    - Look into the eyes, you bastard - I repeat the question - at what minute and where did Varyag slam into your Chioda? - wassat
    1. Cat
      Cat 19 August 2018 15: 02
      +1
      Somehow we have become accustomed in recent years to water ourselves with mud and sprinkle ashes on our heads! Perhaps it makes sense to wean from such a vicious practice?
      Sincerely, Kitty!
      1. PPD
        PPD 19 August 2018 21: 46
        +3
        I completely agree. Talk about cowardice Rudnev just got it already.
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 20 August 2018 08: 56
          +1
          No one speaks of Rudnev’s cowardice! There is more discussion of his competence as a ship commander. Even according to contemporaries' reviews, Rudnev treated his duties after the sleeves in comparison with the same Baer, ​​the first Varyag commander.
    2. Avior
      Avior 19 August 2018 17: 53
      +2
      Uriu said. He was preparing a night attack of destroyers in the port.
      1. Alf
        Alf 19 August 2018 21: 24
        +1
        Quote: Avior
        Uriu said. He was preparing a night attack of destroyers in the port.

        At night, in the port ??? Good luck to him. They would melt everything there.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 August 2018 21: 46
          +1
          I don’t think others would leave or move.
          but if so, then Rudnev was a mess
      2. PPD
        PPD 19 August 2018 21: 51
        0
        And if it wouldn’t help, I still kept the options in stock for sure.
        Ours here the only thing that was true was the slogan hanging on the walls - "there is no way out."
        Translating the situation by analogy, you and your wife leave, and towards 15 people with bad intentions, well, look for ways out. Critics can try to show for themselves how to act.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 August 2018 22: 21
          +1
          I would not go out in such a situation, but would stop at the entrance, so that the opponents could not attack me together.
          what Rudnev had to do
    3. Avior
      Avior 19 August 2018 21: 53
      +1
      the fact that they didn’t make it to the Japanese is known from comparing the distances in the records of the parties.
      The Japanese and the Russians diverged greatly, but the Japanese definitely hit
  11. sevtrash
    sevtrash 19 August 2018 14: 50
    -2
    But have all the parts already ended? How so, I thought there would be more. After a year or two, you open the page - and there, for example, as much as part 55, the series, however. You can open the rubric - series.
  12. Andy
    Andy 19 August 2018 15: 09
    -1
    There was, of course, a much more advantageous option: to take the fight in the raid, deploying the "Varyag" across the raid and blocking the entrance to it. The Japanese squadron could go to the raid only in two columns, and only two lead ships could lead the battle, and then only nose cannons. In this case, the "Varyag" could fire all overboard, and the "Koreyets" with their nasal 203-mm guns. Thus, the advantage in artillery passed already to the Russian ships.

    Let's say Varangian blocked the raid onboard. What is the reaction of other inpatients? why did the Japanese squeeze on a locked raid without drowning the Varyag? it’s enough to inflict underwater holes from afar and that's it. nowhere to repair and no time. as a matter of fact, upon exit, it happened. about the superiority in artillery is also not so.
    1. Avior
      Avior 19 August 2018 17: 56
      -2
      If the Japanese drowned the Varangian on the fairway (or he was one of the Japanese), their landing would be cut off.
      All claims to the Japanese.
      Uriu was not going to do this; hara-kiri was not part of his plans.
    2. Avior
      Avior 19 August 2018 18: 49
      -1
      there is a narrow entrance, it was easy for the Varangian to stand on the beam and shoot, the Japanese would not have risked
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 19 August 2018 19: 36
        +1
        Compare the range of six-inch Kane and eight-inch Armstrong.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 August 2018 21: 49
          0
          the fact of the matter is that in this case Rudnev would dictate the terms of the battle, moving forward to the entrance at the right time, or sitting on the beam of Japanese ships at the moment of entering the port, not allowing them to use all their forces.
          Yes, the Japanese would not go for it, they only have problems with it, it was easier to let the Russians out and clear the way to their landing
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 20 August 2018 09: 41
            +2
            the fact of the matter is that in this case Rudnev would dictate the terms of the battle

            Having no advantage in firing range and speed? Originally!
            Yes, the Japanese would not go for it, they only have problems with it, it was easier to let the Russians out and clear the way to their landing

            By the beginning of the battle, they had landed for 24 hours.
  13. Avior
    Avior 19 August 2018 18: 18
    +2
    1. It’s a little strange to see feedback on an unpublished cycle.
    2. The name for the cycle, of course, clearly does not correspond to its content, everyone is already exhausted :) The cycle is good, only they expected another from the name.
    3. The first eight parts are in fact in no way connected with 9 and 10 (unless, of course, in the tenth we will talk about the battle itself, which is put in the title. :)
    4. The lack of initiative of Rudnev is evident in the case of the Korean.
    5. Rudnev should not have left the port, since his position in the port was much more advantageous than the situation on the fairway.
    Located at the entrance to the port, Koreans and Varangians would have to deal with one, at most two Japanese ships, and, if any of the Russian or Japanese ships were flooded on the fairway, the port with Japanese landing, and possibly European ships, would be cut off and Japan would get a diplomatic scandal (the arguments that the passage was wider than the size of the Varangian, the ships under the wall do not squeeze) would not look serious. Uriu, of course, was not going to do this, it was a night attack by destroyers at the port, and in this case Rudnev had every chance - Uriu could not carry out a siege for a long time.
    In addition, you read through a line about the fact that Rudnev did not do this, did not do this, Rudnev did not have an excuse, there was no order.
    But on the way out of the port, by the way, did he have an order from someone other than the Japanese?
    Melnikov, for example, has not written about this.
    Rudnev’s decision to make a breakthrough amid the fact that he himself determined the speed of the ship at 13 knots, looks like a frank excuse, an imitation of an attempt — well, wasn’t he trying to break through at 13 knots?
    1. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 19 August 2018 19: 35
      +2
      1) I support
      2) Is it still purcua?
      3) Colleague, this dispute (hero Rudnev or not) is more than years old than we are with you. There are so many arguments and counterarguments that it’s impossible to fit in one article, but if you miss it, a discussion will arise. (It will arise anyway, but it is better to highlight the maximum number of nuances in the article).
      4) Why would it?
      5) Why did you decide that?
      reasoning that the passage was wider than the size of the Varyag does not look serious, the ships under the wall do not squeeze through

      Your attempts to pull the owl onto the globe look frivolous. The length of the "Varyag" is 129 meters. The width of the fairway in its narrowest part is over a kilometer. What "wall" are you talking about?
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 August 2018 21: 43
        0
        and what do you think, why was there a speed limit in 15 km / h on such a wide avenue?
        Sailors have different ideas about the width of the aisles than motorists.
        As for the case with the Korean, Rudnev did not do anything from the word at all, although he initially knew about the approach of the Japanese squadron.
        At least withdrew from the barrel, spread the pair and moved to the port entrance, for example. at least showed some activity.
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 20 August 2018 09: 53
          0
          and what do you think, why was there a speed limit in 15 km / h on such a wide avenue?

          Because on it,
          a) currents that change direction and strength during the day.
          b) a lot of randomly located shallows.
          c) Echolt and JP have not yet been invented.
          Nevertheless, the task of blocking the kilometer-long passage of 130 with a meter-long hull of the ship is not solved in principle. Just another jar will appear, which you don’t even need to circle, because the masts will stick out.
          Sailors have different ideas about the width of the aisles than motorists.

          Are you telling me this? lol
          The width of the entrance to the inner roadstead of Port Arthur is about 300 meters. In the "Bucket" 80 meters, nothing coped.
          At least withdrew from the barrel, spread the pair and moved to the port entrance, for example. at least showed some activity.

          You could still climb the mast and show the Japanese the fact Yes
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 21 August 2018 19: 28
            0
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            The width of the entrance to the inner roadstead of Port Arthur is about 300 meters. In the "Bucket" 80 meters, nothing coped.

            You can still remember the St. Petersburg Sea Channel, along which ferries run their own way smile :
  14. Catfish
    Catfish 25 August 2018 23: 25
    +1
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    You could still climb the mast and show the Japanese the fact


    Already shown. Tsushima and complete defeat.