How did Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians appear

97
Now the Baltic states include three countries - Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, which received sovereignty in the process of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Each of these states positions itself, respectively, as the nation state of Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. Nationalism in the Baltic countries has been elevated to the level of state policy, which explains the numerous examples of discrimination against the Russian and Russian-speaking population. In the meantime, if you look into it, it turns out that the Baltic countries are typical “states - replica” with the absence of their own political stories and traditions. No, of course the states in the Baltics existed before, but they were not created by Latvians or Estonians.

What was the Baltic before its land was incorporated into the Russian Empire? Until the XIII century, when the German knights - crusaders began to conquer the Baltic states, it was a solid "tribal zone". Here lived the Baltic and Finno-Ugric tribes, who did not have their own statehood and professed paganism. Thus, modern Latvians as a people appeared as a result of the merger of the Baltic (Latgals, Zemgals, villages, Curonians) and Finno-Ugric (Livs) tribes. It should be borne in mind that the Baltic tribes themselves were not the indigenous population of the Baltic states - they migrated from the south and pushed the local Finno-Ugric population back to the north of modern Latvia. It was the absence of its own statehood that became one of the main reasons for the conquest of the Baltic and Finno-Ugric peoples of the Baltic states by more powerful neighbors.



How did Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians appear


Starting from the XIII-XIV centuries. the peoples of the Baltic states were between two fires - from the south-west they were crowded and subjugated by German knightly orders, from the northeast by Russian principalities. The “core” of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was also not the ancestors of the modern Lithuanians, but the Lithuanians - the “Western Russians”, the Slavs, the ancestors of the modern Belarusians. The adoption of the Catholic religion and the developed cultural ties with neighboring Poland ensured the differences between the Litvins and the population of Russia. And in the German knightly states, and in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the position of the Baltic tribes was far from joyful. They were subjected to religious, linguistic, and social discrimination.

The situation of the Finno-Ugric tribes, which later became the basis for the formation of the Estonian nation, was even worse. In Estonia, as well as in neighboring Livonia and Courland, all the main levers of government and economy were also in the hands of the Austrian Germans. Until the middle of the 19th century, the Russian empire did not even use such a name as “Estonians” - all people from Finland, Vyborg gubernia and a number of other Baltic territories united under the name “Chukhontsy”, and there were no particular differences between Estonians, Izhors, Vepsians, Finns. The standard of living for the Chukhonets was even lower than that of Latvians and Lithuanians. A significant part of the villagers rushed in search of earnings in St. Petersburg, Riga and other major cities. A large number of Estonians rushed even to other regions of the Russian Empire - this is how Estonian settlements appeared in the North Caucasus, in the Crimea, in Siberia and in the Far East. They left “to the ends of the world” not from a good life. It is interesting that in the Baltic cities there were practically no Estonians and Latvians - they called themselves “villagers”, opposing the townspeople - the Germans.



The bulk of the population of the Baltic cities until the XIX century were ethnic Germans, as well as Poles, Jews, but not the Baltic. In fact, the “old” (pre-revolutionary) Baltic was completely built by the Germans. The Baltic cities were German cities - with German architecture, culture, system of municipal government. In the Order state formations, in the Duchy of Courland, in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Baltic peoples would never have become equal with the titular Germans, Poles, or Litvins. For the German nobility, who ruled the Baltics, Latvians and Estonians were second-rate people, almost “barbarians,” and no equal rights were out of the question. The nobility and merchants of the Duchy of Kurland consisted entirely of the Ostsee Germans. The German minority for centuries ruled over the Latvian peasants, who constituted the bulk of the population of the duchy. The Latvian peasants were enslaved and, by their social status, were equated with the Courland statute as Roman slaves.

Freedom to the Latvian peasants came almost half a century earlier than to the Russian serfs - the decree on the abolition of serfdom in Courland was signed by Emperor Alexander I in 1817 year. On August 30, the liberation of the peasants was solemnly announced in Mitau. Two years later, in the 1819 year, the peasants of Livonia were also released. Thus, the Latvians received their long-awaited freedom, from which the gradual formation of a class of free Latvian farmers began. If it were not for the will of the Russian emperor, then who knows how many more years the Latvians would be in a state of serfdom of their German masters. The incredible mercy shown by Alexander I towards the peasants of Courland and Livonia had a tremendous impact on the further economic development of these lands. By the way, it is not by chance that Latgale turned into the most economically backward part of Latvia - the liberation from serfdom came to the Latgalian peasants much later, and this fact affected the development of agriculture and trade. crafts in the region.



The liberation of the serfs of Livonia and Courland allowed them to quickly turn into successful farmers living much better than the peasants of Northern and Central Russia. An impetus was given to the further economic development of Latvia. But even after the liberation of the peasants, the main resources of Livonia and Courland remained in the hands of the Ostsee Germans who organically fit into the Russian aristocracy and merchants. A large number of prominent military and political figures of the Russian Empire — generals and admirals, diplomats, and ministers — emerged from the Baltic nobility. On the other hand, the position of the actual Latvians or Estonians remained degraded - and not at all because of the Russians, who are now being accused of occupying the Baltic states, but because of the Baltic nobility, who exploited the population of the region.

Now in all the Baltic countries they like to talk about “the horrors of the Soviet occupation,” but they prefer to keep quiet about the fact that Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians supported the revolution, which gave them the long-awaited deliverance from the domination of the Ostsee Germans. If the German aristocracy of the Baltic States mostly supported the white movement, then on the side of the Reds entire divisions of Latvian riflemen fought. Ethnic Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians played a very large role in establishing Soviet power in Russia, with the highest percentage being in the Red Army and state security agencies.

When modern Baltic politicians argue about the “Soviet occupation”, they forget that tens of thousands of “Latvian riflemen” fought all over Russia for establishing this very Soviet power, and then continued to serve in the organs of the Cheka-OGPU-NKVD, in the Red Army, far from the lowest posts. As you can see, no one Latvians or Estonians were oppressed by Soviet ethnicity; moreover, in the first post-revolutionary years, Latvian formations were considered privileged, it was they who carried the protection of the Soviet leadership and performed the most responsible tasks, including the suppression of numerous anti-Soviet speeches in the Russian province . It must be said that, not feeling ethnic kinship and cultural affinity with the Russian peasants, the shooters dealt with the rebels rather harshly, for which the Soviet leadership valued them.

In the interwar period (from 1920 to 1940 years) in Latvia there were several worlds - Latvian, German, Russian and Jewish, which tried to intersect with each other at a minimum. It is clear that the position of the Germans in independent Latvia was better than the position of Russians or Jews, but certain nuances did exist anyway. So, despite the fact that the Germans and Latvians were Lutherans or Catholics, there were separate German and Latvian Catholic and Protestant churches, separate schools. That is, two people with the kind of close cultural values ​​tried to distance themselves as much as possible from each other. For Latvians, the Germans were invaders and descendants of the exploiters — feudal lords; for the Germans, the Latvians were almost “forest barbarians”. Moreover, as a result of the agrarian reform, the Baltic landowners lost their lands, transferred to the Latvian farmers.

Firstly, promonarchic sentiments prevailed among the Ostsee Germans — they hoped for the restoration of the Russian Empire and the return of Latvia to its composition, and then, in the 1930-s, German Nazism spread very quickly - it’s enough to recall that Alfred Rosenberg himself came from the Baltic of the key Hitler ideologues. With the spread of German power in the Baltic States, the Germans attributed the restoration of their political and economic domination. They considered it extremely unfair that the German-built cities of Estonia and Latvia were in the hands of the “villagers” - Estonians and Latvians.

In fact, if it were not for the “Soviet occupation”, the Baltic states would be under the rule of the Nazis, would be annexed to Germany, and the local Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian population would wait for the status of second-rate people, followed by rapid assimilation. Although the repatriation of Germans from Latvia to Germany was begun in 1939, and by 1940, almost all of the Baltic Germans who lived in the country left it, in any case they would return again if Latvia were part of the Third Reich.

Adolf Hitler himself treated the population of Ostland very dismissively and for a long time prevented the implementation of the plans of a number of German commanders for the formation of Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian formations as part of the SS forces. In the Baltic States, the German administration ordered to prohibit any encroachments of the local population towards autonomy and self-determination, it was strictly forbidden to establish higher education institutions with instruction in Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian. At the same time, it was allowed to create craft and technical schools for the local population, which indicated only one thing - in the German Baltic, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians had only the fate of service personnel.

That is, in fact, it was the Soviet troops who saved the Latvians from returning to the position of the disenfranchised majority under the German gentlemen. However, given the number of immigrants from the Baltic republics who served in the Nazi police and the SS, one can be sure that for many of them, serving the invaders as collaborators was not a significant problem.



Now in the Baltic countries the policemen who served Hitler are whitewashed, while the merits of those Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians who weapons in his hands he embarked on the path of struggle against Nazism, served in the Red Army, and fought as part of partisan detachments. The modern Baltic politicians are also forgetting about the enormous contribution that Russia, and then the Soviet Union, made to the development of culture, writing, and science in the Baltic republics. In the USSR, a multitude of books were translated into Latvian, Lithuanian, and Estonian, writers from the Baltic republics were given the opportunity to publish their works, which were then also translated into other languages ​​of the Soviet Union and printed in large editions.

It was during the Soviet period in the Baltic republics that a powerful and developed education system was created - both secondary and higher, with all Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians being educated in their native language, using their own script without experiencing any discrimination during their subsequent employment. Needless to say, people from the Baltic republics in the Soviet Union received an opportunity for career growth not only within their home regions, but within the whole huge country as a whole - they became high-ranking party leaders, military leaders and naval commanders, made a career from science, culture, sports, etc. All this was made possible thanks to the enormous contribution of the Russian people to the development of the Baltic states. About how much the Russians have done for the Baltics, sensible Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians never forget. It is not by chance that one of the main tasks of the modern Baltic regimes was the eradication of any adequate information about the life of the Baltic republics in the Soviet era. After all, the main task is to permanently detach the Baltic States from Russia and Russian influence, to educate the younger generations of Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians in the spirit of total Russophobia and admiration for the West.
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  1. 0
    18 August 2018 05: 30
    “Although in 1939 the repatriation of Germans from Latvia to Germany was started, and by 1940 almost all Ostseem Germans living in the country left it, in any case they would have returned again,”
    The article is interesting but I do not like speculation.
    1. +2
      18 August 2018 05: 43
      How did Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians appear
      as well as the ancient Ukrainians, right after the dinosaurs, and they dug the Baltic Sea. wassat
      1. 18+
        18 August 2018 08: 44
        Quote: Author: Ilya Polonsky
        The “core” of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were also not the ancestors of modern Lithuanians, but the Litvinians - “Western Russians”, Slavs, ancestors of modern Belarusians. The adoption of the Catholic religion and developed cultural ties with neighboring Poland ensured the difference between the Litvins and the population of Russia.
        The author has problems with basic knowledge. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was Orthodox. Moreover, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia had a single metropolis. Russia was baptized into Orthodoxy more than a thousand years ago (then even the west has not yet officially gone to heresy). Only in 1458, under the influence of Rome, the metropolis was divided, but the Lithuanian (Lithuanian) schismatics remained in Orthodoxy, becoming subordinate to the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Relinquishment, the prohibition of the Orthodox faith and the Russian language, the deprivation of Russian political and fundamental civil rights, and genocide did not begin when the ON and Poland were neighbors, but when the ON turned into Poland under the Union of Lublin. The West always does this when expanding to the east. Moreover, the Poles achieved greater success in the southern part (the north of modern Ukraine) immediately annexed to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Despite all of the above, the people (if not all) retained the Orthodox faith. Even in the Kholm region, despite ethnic cleansing, even under the Communists, Orthodoxy is preserved.
        Belarusians are a very late invention. I still cannot name the date exactly as, for example, 1892 - an invention in Austria in the Young Ukraine Masonic lodge of Ukrainian nationality. But someone quite historically recently needed to divide the single Russian people.
        It's funny that the original principality of Mindaugas, which became the core of the ON, was called "Black Rus. ”When exactly the term“ White Rus ”appeared and when exactly it began to refer specifically to the present territory (it was not always so) is still a mystery to me.
        1. 12+
          18 August 2018 18: 57
          So the "Ukrainians" are a notion of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff, and their zhovto-blakit flag, now, apart from the state flag of Ukraine, very symbolically denotes incurable patients with Down syndrome, and in those days - the flag of the most dry and downtrodden province of Autro-Hungoia - Galicia and Ladomeria.
          Under the "accursed" tsarism, the concept of "nationality" is not an essential religion. Those. the inhabitants of Little Russia in the majority were simply Orthodox.
          1. GDP
            0
            26 October 2018 14: 14
            I note one important point, if we talk about the origin of the Baltic tribes).
            The Baltic and Slavic peoples initially constituted one ethnic group; it is not by chance that they are assigned to the Baltic-Slavic language group. In linguistic terms, it is the people closest to the Slavs. Over time, the language of the proto-Baltic cultures crowded out to the north began to mix with the autochthonous population and the languages ​​of the Balts and Slavs began to differ more and more, however, despite this, the Slavs and the Balts understood each other for a long time, as long as the cultural influence of the Finnish and Germanic tribes did not distort their language beyond recognition ....

            And ps, not everything is as good as the author writes, before the merger of the great Lithuanian principality and Poland, the Russian language was dominant, and the main religion was Orthodoxy with a strong influence of paganism, while relations between Russians and Lithuanians were quite good, even the possibility of unification with Moscow kingdom.
            However, everything was spoiled by Ivan the Terrible, having organized a demonstration flogging of the Lithuanians and pushing them into the arms of the Poles, which he forever rejected the Lithuanians and other peoples subject to them from east to west ....
        2. +1
          19 August 2018 16: 04
          Tell me, from what sources did you get everything you wrote?
        3. -21
          19 August 2018 16: 57
          The author is clearly paid ... a lie ... and a distortion of facts ... my ancestor (grandfather of the Latgals) .... during the Russian Latgalls received two deportations to Siberia .. robbery and violence ... sawed under the Molotov-Ribenntrop Pact ... genocide and, ultimately, the destruction of the Latgalls ... as a result, there are more of them in Siberia than in Latvia ... therefore, the Baltic states also perceive the Germans as defenders ... well, another nonsense ... that the Soviets liberated Latvia into the Patriotic War ... alas, no ... the red army divisions were formed according to the ethnic principle ... and for the liberation they used the Baltic states from Siberia ... in one of the divisions my grandfather died ... during the genocide ...
          1. +9
            19 August 2018 19: 03
            not the author but you are paid for by censorship.
            for I, for example, from a pile of books, I know how the Germans and Swedes acted with the Balkans. how they loved to decorate the stobes and trees with the Bolsheviks (for them, the Bolsheviks were like Christmas-tree decorations, not for the New Year, but for permanent use) and only with the advent of the Russians did the extermination of the Bolshes and their livestock decrease to zero.
            1. -7
              20 August 2018 14: 40
              What kind of heap? Manure? .... This is not a book .... this is the story of my family!
              1. +4
                21 August 2018 07: 57
                so ask your family what the Swedes and Germans did to them.
                preferably with pictures. the appearance of a rotting gallows really returns to reality.
          2. -1
            19 August 2018 20: 07
            Rune rune! Mana Dyrsa Claus ...............
          3. +5
            21 August 2018 14: 10
            all that you don’t like is a paid lie, so what? and you’ve got some one-sided bill, or maybe you remember the Balts who were in full swing on the body of the dying empire and what they did with people who disagree with the current state of affairs, or Hitler’s accomplices who the overwhelming majority got off too easy for their "exploits", so that the output of the white, fluffy and oppressed will not work.
          4. +7
            22 August 2018 19: 05
            Another officer’s daughter. Can you tell us how they are destroying Latgale now? Where is the highest mortality, where is the highest unemployment, where are people fleeing to survive, why is Latgale spoiling the EU suicide statistics. Have you been here, saw the overgrown fields, abandoned farms and schools, visit the city of Daugavpils, once the second largest city in Latvia, with large industrial enterprises, schools and institutes, look what remains there, factories are ruined, schools are abandoned in the city center with boarded up windows and a void, from 130 thousand in half of the best cases are left, and it can only be written on paper here, but in order to survive and feed the elderly, young people work abroad. There is no need for deportation to be empty soon. Tell me about this genocide.
        4. +1
          19 August 2018 20: 53
          You are right. The author’s reasoning applies to Latvians and Estonians, with the Lithuanians there is a different story and the influence of the Germans is not much, the influence of the Catholic Church is more ...... But, that the indigenous peoples of the Baltic states comprised 90% of the peasantry and did not live in cities until the Second World War , after which the demographics of cities changed very quickly to the benefit of the Balts, so this is true ..
        5. 0
          17 September 2021 15: 29
          The lands on which the current Baltic peoples live were, if I am not mistaken, bought by the Russian monarchs from Sweden at one time.
          But the Bolsheviks illegally gave up Russian lands
    2. -11
      18 August 2018 08: 09
      old stuff is called "how did the Balts appear?" , but does not give an answer to this question. Considering that now the population of each page is less than 3 million hours. , and Estonia is generally less than 3 mil.ch. Therefore, what the TI says about the fact that the Balts emerged in the 13th century simply cannot be reality, because given the demographic dynamics, the Balts simply collapse, like a people already in the 17-18 century. Therefore, the emergence of the Baltic peoples should be attributed to the 18th century.
      The emergence of these peoples is entirely the merit of the Romanovs, it was the Romanovs who were engaged in the creation of new peoples from the Russian people.
      The fact that in the Baltic cities the majority of the population were Germans is also a Romanov technology. Where did so many Germans come from in the Baltic cities? The Romanovs specially invited the Germans from the Vaterland for resettlement in the Baltic states. This fact is little known. But the fact of the Germans' settlement on the Volga at E2 is widely known. In the case of the Baltic, everything was exactly the same.
      Do not forget that Germany itself is the land of the Luzhitsky Slavs, which confirms the numerous toponyms throughout Germany. In the historical everyday life there are many books about how the Germans conquered the Western Slavs in the 9-10th centuries, but this is certainly just a lie. If the Germans conquered the Slavs would be in 10c, then so many names in Germany could not remain, but they exist. Therefore, the conquests took place much later, somewhere in the 16-17th centuries the formation of the German ethnic group began, and ended only by the end of the 19th century when the German principalities merged into Germany.
      The fact that German and Jewish (Yiddish) is one and the same language says that Germans and Jews are one people. Rather, it is this people, which is now called Jews, who was the conqueror of the vast Slavic or, better to say, Russian world. happened, only by religious means, some became Christians, others Jews. Russian, because these people, or better to say, the peoples spoke Russian, although the people themselves had many names, and spoke not only Russian, but also Tatar.
      Fomenko and Nosovsky call this people Russia the Horde.
      Especially characteristic is the fact of the synthetic origin of the Baltic peoples, this is the name of the Estonian people.
      -Estonia just eats i.e. VOSTOK. Is it possible for people to call themselves tails? Of course not.
      -Latians are Latins in the past Livonian / Livonians i.e. -Levs.
      - Lithuanians are the self-name of Zhmuda, and Lithuanians are the notion of Romanovs, taken from the Litvin people i.e. Belarusians. In the past, Courlandians.
      The author Polonsky correctly showed from which peoples the Balts were created — from the GALOV semigals and Latgals. And these were Russians. As well, and the PRUS. Könicksberg in the 18th century was called Ruska-Royal.
      1. 0
        18 August 2018 09: 14
        it is unclear to whom I should put a minus.
        1. +3
          18 August 2018 13: 32
          set yourself. your opus is on a par with the "superethnos of the Russians" still incomprehensible to me. before they became Estonians, they were Estonians .. merged with other tribes in the region of Lake Chud. just like the Russians were once Russians. and they never were any sides of the world!
          1. -1
            18 August 2018 14: 41
            Quote: Andy
            before becoming Estonians they were ests ..



            it was a strong thought of the Estonians, Estonians became, such as the Easterners, and the Easterners became.
            1. -1
              18 August 2018 17: 00
              Clinic. Let's burn on.
          2. 0
            20 August 2018 12: 17
            So Yes. Only there were no ests (this is the German name that came from Latin), but - maarahvas
        2. +3
          18 August 2018 19: 00
          Quote: Bar1
          it is not clear who I put minus

          I personally do not play cons.
      2. +3
        18 August 2018 19: 02
        Quote: Bar1
        The author Polonsky correctly showed from which nations the Balts were created, from the heads of the Semigals and Latgals. And they were Rusko.

        There is no direct ethnic connection between the Gauls / Celts and a part of the Lithuanians - semigals and Latgalians, but the idea is interesting. But the fact that it was Russian-is a complete nonsense.

        Quote: Bar1
        As well, and PRUS. In the 18 century, Könikberg was named after Rus –Korolev.

        Actually, the Prussians and the Russians - although phonetically close, but ethnically and culturally - are absolutely opposite, one might say. And the neighbors could call Königbserg in different ways, for example, among the inhabitants of Kievan Rus immediately after its foundation, it was called "Knyazh-grad", so what?
        1. 0
          18 August 2018 21: 56
          Quote: Warrior2015
          There is no direct ethnic connection between the Gauls / Celts and a part of the Lithuanians - semigals and Latgalians, but the idea is interesting. But the fact that it was Russian-is a complete nonsense.


          But is there a connection between the Galicians and the Russians? And the fact that the main city of Latgale is called Rezhitsa-is traced? When you trace is what is expressed in?
          Here is a table of the distances of European capitals to Moscow, clerk of the Ambassadorial order of Andrei Vinius. ALL cities are named after their familiar names and Madrid, Linsbon, Rome, Alexandria, Copenhagen, etc. Except Korolevts / Königsberg. During Peter’s time, they said about Königsberg -Korolevets and it’s not surprising that the Russians lived there.

          <img src ="http://s1.radikale.ru/uploads/2018/8/18/d9d97d8de579578ff21f00afc2b23213-full.jpg">
          1. 0
            19 August 2018 12: 58
            Quote: Bar1

            And the fact that the main city of Latgale is called Rezhitsa-traced?
            The main city of Latgale is Dinaburg (Dvinsk, Daugavpils).
            1. -2
              19 August 2018 15: 42
              Quote: Pushkar
              Quote: Bar1

              And the fact that the main city of Latgale is called Rezhitsa-traced?
              The main city of Latgale is Dinaburg (Dvinsk, Daugavpils).

              Can you first read something before, so screw up?
              1. +2
                19 August 2018 19: 12
                and you ask them at least a gene portrait of Germany to see.
                where east Germany is r1a and east is r1b.
                that is, in the east there were Slavs, in the west the Celts.
                at baptism they were artificially united into one state and artificially given them a mixed language. in fact, Germany was then as Ukraine is now. 2 different peoples with the same language (I know that in Ukaine the population still spoke Russian) and the Vatican invented history and culture for them.
          2. -2
            20 August 2018 12: 28
            The Russian King came from the Polish Krulevec. Which is not surprising, because The Teutonic Order and later the Prussian Duchy were subject to Poland for 200 years.
      3. -4
        19 August 2018 17: 04
        In Kashchenko, dear ... in Kashchenko ... Riga was founded before the appearance of Moscow for 200 years ... Russians themselves have not yet gained statehood ...
        1. +9
          19 August 2018 17: 19
          The city of Riege, on the site of a native village, was founded by the German bishop Albert Buxgewden at the behest of Pope Innocent III in 1201 year.
        2. +1
          19 August 2018 19: 12
          what was Tallinn called before?
          1. 0
            20 August 2018 00: 45
            Quote: just explo
            what was Tallinn called before?

            Koluvan (Quoluwany) or Lindanis (Dat. Lyndanisse, Swede. Lindanäs) or Reval (German Reval) - as you like
            1. +2
              20 August 2018 12: 48
              but at the time of its occurrence he was called Yuryev.
              but what you wrote is much later. when the Swedes were already trying to take on the role of the crusaders.
      4. +2
        19 August 2018 19: 07
        mdya. zamususuyut you in full, although a lot of your comment is true.
        people have even forgotten their own tales, which described German villages in Russia.
    3. +6
      18 August 2018 08: 48
      You're right. Speculation always hides what happened in reality.
      With such authors, Americans are not needed. National units began to form under the kings. They served in every way. This * temporary * for a little more than six months managed to breed nationalists and not only in the Baltic states, and they all faithfully served both the interventionists and then the Nazis.
      Then the entire nationalist scum had to be destroyed by the Bolsheviks.
      Limitrophs were formed by the occupying German army, under their protection, local nationalists destroyed all Russian-speakers. The accession of the Baltic States to the SOVIET UNION in 1940 was based on universal suffrage and those who voted * for * were more than 80%. It’s just that neither the author nor the modern liberal is * interested *, and that lies about the events of 1917 and everything else.
  2. +5
    18 August 2018 06: 20
    Slurred article, it is not clear what.
    1. +2
      18 August 2018 07: 02
      Quote: wooja
      it is not clear what

      The fact that these three peoples were created by the Soviet government at the expense of the Russians.
      It was during the Soviet period In the Baltic republics, a powerful and developed education system was created - both secondary and higher, with all Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians receiving education in their native language, using their writing, without experiencing any discrimination in subsequent employment. Needless to say that immigrants from the republics of the Baltic in Soviet Union got an opportunity for career growth not only within their native regions, but within the whole vast country as a whole - they became high-ranking party leaders, military leaders and naval commanders, made a career from science, culture, sports, etc. All this became possible thanks to the huge contribution of the Russian people to the development of the Baltic states.
      1. 11+
        18 August 2018 07: 15
        And that if it were not for the Soviet regime, they would drink German beer. Before entering the gas chamber.
        1. +8
          18 August 2018 07: 52
          Quote: Azim77
          then they would drink German beer. Before entering the gas chamber

          Hardly. That is, why spend beer on those who will go to the expense? Just into the camera and that’s it.
          1. Cat
            +8
            18 August 2018 09: 14
            Hardly. That is, why spend beer on those who will go to the expense? Just into the camera and that’s it.

            Well, you and Nain, how for what, in order not to spend ammo. Although Ilya (the Author) was right in the plans of Germany, there was a partial assimilation of the Balts, as ethnic groups close to the Aryan. Moreover, even before the start of World War II, the Germans did not hesitate to cut off tidbits from the Baltic territory.
            Sadly, the leadership of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union did the opposite, hoping for gratitude. For example, Lithuania is modestly silent about what its capital received from the hands of the tyrant and dictator Stalin. Yes, if not the last, then Vilnus remained so Polish Vilna. But who will remember that?
            Now for the article. Dear Ilya, unfortunately I must join the comment above the story did not ask. Somehow below the level of your work to which we are accustomed. Do not be offended for God's sake, well, better is the bitter truth than a sweet lie.
            Now for the Baltic countries! I will tell you purely my personal opinion, which was formed two decades ago. The Baltic countries, because of their policies, should not be a handshake for Russia. That is, until they bring their political systems to common democratic values ​​associated with citizenship, freedom of speech, religion, education. Their governments should be recognized as non-democratic and all contacts should be kept to a minimum. Including economic, socio-cultural and others.
            Half before that he called himself Lithuanian, publicly supported the policy of discriminating the peoples of Russia on the territory of the Baltic countries - a suitcase, a railway station, Riga. I came to speak from Estonia. You publicly accuse the government of the latter for its position on "non-citizens"! If you don't want to, go to Honduras with concerts.
            Today’s slurred position of Russia is terrible for us, so we cannot protect our own people for more than a quarter of a century!
            Sincerely, Kitty!
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            2. +4
              20 August 2018 12: 34
              Quote: Kotischa
              Although Ilya (the Author) was right in the plans of Germany, there was a partial assimilation of the Balts, as ethnic groups close to the Aryan.


              As if in a Nazi ranking table, the Balts and Finns were much lower than the same Poles or Russians.
              The point is not in racial affinity, but in the fact that they were historically familiar, old, obedient and reliable slaves. Those. proximity is not racial, but cultural-historical.
  3. 0
    18 August 2018 08: 07
    And who was called the Chukhons before the revolution? We ourselves are to blame brought up of them boooolshiiih ....
  4. +8
    18 August 2018 08: 15
    A large number of Estonians rushed even to other regions of the Russian Empire - this is how Estonian settlements appeared in the North Caucasus, Crimea, Siberia and the Far East.

    I am a descendant of Latvians (my grandmother on my father's side) who left Livonia province before the revolution, and settled in Oryol province (now Bryansk region). They built a n. The Baltic, which in fact was not a village, but a bunch of farms.
  5. 12+
    18 August 2018 08: 24
    The Setu people live on the border between Estonia and Russia. Most of them live in Russia. Very conditionally they can be called Orthodox Estonians. In Estonia, the Setos are not considered a people, for them they are Estonians. They have a cool flag, to the envy of the Sumerians. Scandinavian cross in vyshyvanka.
    1. +6
      18 August 2018 08: 44
      but the Russians had such decorations.

      <img src ="http://russkievesti.ru/assets/images/media/2016/16/2016-12-218676758-9.jpg">
    2. Cat
      +8
      18 August 2018 09: 21
      The most interesting thing is that perhaps the ancestors of the Setu people are the mythical miracle who, with words and all, invited the Varangians-Rus led by Rurik.
      Sincerely, Kitty!
  6. BAI
    +4
    18 August 2018 09: 45
    And here is what the Lithuanians themselves write about themselves.
    Lithuania - the only one of the three Baltic states has a thousand-year history, and in 2009 Lithuania celebrated the millennium. (From the reference book “Lithuania. The Millennium in the Center of Europe.” Edition of the State Department of Tourism of Lithuania, 2005).

    The history of Lithuania can be traced back centuries at least from the 1009th century, when the first Baltic tribes settled on the banks of its many rivers .. The word Lithuania, or rather the Latin name Lituae, was first mentioned in the Quedlinburg Chronicle XNUMX. The text of the annals read: that the archbishop "in Lithuania, the pagans stunned with a blow to the head, and he went to heaven." (Lithuanian reference book “Vilnius in Russian”).

    “Settlements on the territory of modern Vilnius existed as far back as the XNUMXth century. BC, however, in written sources (which means its official recognition by historical science) the city was first mentioned only in the XIV century, during the reign of Grand Duke Gediminas. ("Vilnius in Russian").

    “After the Pact (Union) was concluded with neighboring Poland in 1387, already by 1430 the possessions and power of Lithuania extended from the Black Sea to the Baltic Sea”

  7. -2
    18 August 2018 09: 57
    Future Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians came to the Baltic States from the east, passing at the end of the 1 millennium BC. Ural and mingling along the road with the Slavs who lived on the Russian Plain, in the proportion of 50: 50.

    Today's balts are golemic mestizos.
    1. -1
      18 August 2018 13: 39
      uhh, well, you yourself are clearly Rurikovich. delve into your tree and see who the half-breed golem is. Russia has been so multinational since ancient times that there were pure Russians. And what from this?
      1. +6
        18 August 2018 14: 46
        Quote: Andy
        uhh, well, you yourself are clearly Rurikovich.

        Are you talking about the small ice age that the thread heard? Then all of Europe was under the glacier, and what do you think, after the glacier began to melt and recede to the North, from under it the frozen ones came to life and began to rule there, or did people from the East populate these lands? laughing

        Quote: Andy
        Russia has been so multinational since ancient times that there were pure Russians. And what from this?

        Judging by the variety of races on earth, there is vague suspicion, but did Eve give Adam alone laughing

        Russian is not a nationality, it is a part of Russian civilization. There is a Russian Georgian, a Russian Armenian, a Russian Jew, etc. ... Everyone who worries about the well-being of all nations and nationalities living in this territory is Russian. Whoever thinks of his own well-being and the well-being of his kind-tribe, I cannot consider myself Russian.
        1. +1
          18 August 2018 15: 49
          Elena Hanka calls herself - black Russian!
          1. +1
            18 August 2018 18: 36
            I can say that "Hanka" is a stage name. There are too many associations at the time of its broadcast. The fact that she is Russian is beyond doubt (see my comment below)
        2. +5
          18 August 2018 16: 24
          A good definition of Dahl: "A man of that nationality in what language he thinks."
          1. +1
            18 August 2018 17: 05
            it remains to convince the rest
          2. +2
            18 August 2018 18: 23
            The definition is good, but incorrect.
        3. 0
          18 August 2018 18: 27
          Russian is a value system.
          1. -1
            18 August 2018 18: 36
            Stunned! In the film, they fought for their homeland about A.Makedonsky — what was the nation? —And he has his own nation and basta ... So Russian is a system of values, not nationality ?? It seems to me what it is about.
            1. 0
              18 August 2018 18: 55
              What do you have against?
              1. +2
                18 August 2018 20: 54
                How glad it is to not forget the blood affiliation. Otherwise we'll invite all sorts of "Russians too," and then we'll run away from Kosovo like Serbs. And so, those and those relatives by blood (by haplogroups) and it is not so offensive that one is more successful, and the other is not
              2. -1
                19 August 2018 14: 44
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                What do you have against?

                sorry . but warm with soft confuse. beliefs are one thing, but nationality, roots, traditions and culture are another. otherwise you don’t remember kinship
                1. 0
                  19 August 2018 16: 23
                  "I am a Tatar in person
                  But with the surname Khokhlyat
                  How am I longing kabat
                  Fitted under the wheel "
                  Yu. Shevchuk
                  The author of these lines, who is he?
        4. 0
          19 August 2018 13: 37
          Quote: Boris55
          Russian is not a nationality, it is a part of Russian civilization


          what nonsense? Why on earth do all nations belong to a nation, ancestral blood, while in Russians, belonging is "belonging"?
          Ruski is a WHITE RACE and the fact that Negroes and Mongoloids know Russian is not belonging to the Russian nation. This should also apply to the half-bloods, because Russian should be similar to Russian, and not to a Jew or Caucasians.
          1. 0
            19 August 2018 22: 23
            Quote: Bar1
            Ruski is a WHITE RACE and the fact that Negroes and Mongoloids know Russian is not belonging to the Russian nation. This should also apply to the half-bloods, because Russian should be similar to Russian, and not to a Jew or Caucasians.

            Another Nazi nonsense, for which, in an amicable way, it would be necessary to plant for a couple of years in a zone with these same half-breeds, in order to teach proletarian internationalism. In 1942 my grandfather sent about a dozen such representatives of the "white race" to their "Aryan" ancestors (he served in a reconnaissance platoon), before he lost his leg. And he was half Tatar.
            Remember, hack to death or somewhere else. Any person - whether Russian, Caucasian, or Jewish - should look like a person, and not what you see in the mirror - a Nazi who was misunderstood by our grandfathers and repainted his "Aryan" roots from Germanic to Slavic.
            Give your guru my words on occasion.
            Mr. Fomenko! Read the messages of your adherent, found on the website "Voennoye Obozreniye" under the nickname Bar1, maybe then you will finally understand what effect your, if I may say so, creativity has on the weak minds of some of our fellow citizens. Under the flag of your anti-scientific theories, they cultivate and develop terry Nazism, directly, without cuts, transferring Hitler's ideas to Slavic soil. And if tomorrow these empty-headed little ones start shedding blood again, it will be your fault too!
            I really hope that among those Nazis, the landing of which I was able to help (I am proud of this fact of my biography), were your acquaintances or friends. laughing
            1. +2
              20 August 2018 09: 31
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              remember, hack on the nose or somewhere else. Any person - whether Russian, Caucasian, or Jewish - should look like a person, and not what you see in the mirror - a Nazi who was misunderstood by our grandfathers and repainted his "Aryan" roots from Germanic to Slavic.
              Give your guru my words on occasion.


              Ek dude hooked, apparently trying to integrate, and since he himself could not become better, then you need to lower the rest with you.
              There are different people, there are people, and there are people, there are adequate forum participants who are responsible for their words, and there are irresponsible talkers who live their whole lives according to the cliche and respond to blanks that they don’t see, because they don’t look and because they lie at every step. Such sea cockroaches must be driven away by a fly swatter from the forum, because such as this one create an exorbitant level of lies. A man was found, crazy, useless, without conscience, without honor, because he is a liar.
              As for nationality, the tribal affiliation of a person was given to a person from above and a person should keep belonging to his own family, to the family of his ancestors and not be exchanged for strangers.
              And such "internationalism", when there were 90% of Jews in Lenin's government, we do not need Russians.
  8. 0
    18 August 2018 16: 06
    Quote: Boris55
    or still these lands were inhabited by people from the East

    People from the South of Europe, Pale Europeans, people from the East came much later
  9. +1
    18 August 2018 18: 11
    What can I say? It is felt that for the author this is a burning topic. One would like to ask: Ilya, do you have relatives in the Baltic states?
    On the other hand, my grandfather passed all these lands, as part of a field hospital, and, deep down, I do not understand why I needed to cross the bridge across the river. Narva needs Schengen.
    1. +3
      18 August 2018 20: 43
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      What can I say? It is felt that for the author this is a burning topic. One would like to ask: Ilya, do you have relatives in the Baltic states?
      On the other hand, my grandfather passed all these lands, as part of a field hospital, and, deep down, I do not understand why I needed to cross the bridge across the river. Narva needs Schengen.

      Have you tried as part of a field hospital?
      1. 0
        19 August 2018 16: 08
        Me not. To my grandfather - to puff and puff.
  10. +3
    18 August 2018 21: 23
    Before Estonia and Livonia became part of the Russian Empire, the “position” of a goldsmith or swineherd was the top of the career path for Estonians and Latvians. Particularly mentally outstanding could become grooms .... So there is no talk of "cultural" European powers, by which "spratniki" are trying to present themselves! Baboons are baboons! Civilized nations are distinguished by the presence of cities founded by these nations, but here it is dull! This can be seen from the article ... Cities were built by Germans, Danes, Russians - and local savages lived in dugouts, and only then in chicken huts. By the way, at the end of the 30s of the 20th century, it seems, a campaign was held in Lithuania to sort the population so that they could go to the toilets, and not just anywhere ...
  11. +3
    18 August 2018 22: 02
    Quote: Warrior2015
    for example, the inhabitants of Kievan Rus immediately after its foundation called it "Knyazh-grad", so what?

    about the fact that Kiev was called "principality" themselves invented? A source?
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. 0
    19 August 2018 11: 54
    The author in vain lowered to the Mongol period. Before the Balts and Ugrophins, the Wends lived on these lands - the ancestors of the Eastern Slavs, according to some estimates, the wargs - the founders of Novgorod.
    Between the two fires (the invasion of the Germans and the horde) on these lands were just the ancestors of modern Russians.
    1. 0
      19 August 2018 19: 26
      there was no horde. was the Vedic Siberian Russia which demolished the fuck Christian Russia.
      in general, then it was the same as now. then, too, the Kakly decided that they were some other people, declared themselves the European people, and recorded continental Russia as barbarians and finougres, denying them history and civilization. and so that they would not be confused between Ukraine and Russia now, they would be called Kievan Rus, which would be distinguished from the usual Rus at that time.
      and if you still rummage then r1a was spread throughout Europe and only 4-5 thousand r1b began expansion and captured a significant part of Europe. in response to this, r1a 2.5 thousand years BC launched a retaliatory attack and defeated r1b but, unlike the latter, who slaughtered the entire conquered population (therefore, in the territories where r1b conquered the population r1a disappeared) r1a did not destroy the population, but changed its language and religion.
      and the world was normal. and it was normal until Rome appeared, which became the new springboard for the Erbins, from which the new conquest of Europe began. then gallium fell, the process of conquering present-day Germany, the Czech Republic and Serbia started from it, then Poland and the Baltic states, and then they reached Russia, but their teeth were already broken there.
      1. 0
        19 August 2018 20: 11
        Quote: just explo
        there was no horde. was the Vedic Siberian Russia which demolished the fuck Christian Russia.

        Laughing for a long time ... Ermak Timofeevich also think I would dare ... Can you at least bring some normal arguments in support of this?
        1. 0
          20 August 2018 12: 53
          Well, in the first Perm was also Russian. although, according to an official source, the Russians didn’t smell there.
          and as for the arguments, then take the finds of corpses or mummies beyond the Urals and see their genetic portrait.
          By the way, the kingdom of Vedic Siberian Russia reached the territories of modern China.
          you can search for their genetic description yourself, well, tell me by nationality who by nationality, for example, does this mummy remind you? and I remind you that today it is the territory of China. there, by the way, there are still pyramids (mountains with clearly defined faces and a pyramidal shape), they can be seen not only in the photo, but even in the video.
          But you are unlikely to find it. Well it is necessary to enter a few words in Google or Yandex.
          1. 0
            22 August 2018 07: 08
            Judging by the pronounced high cheekbones - this woman of the Mongoloid race .... Very similar to the Buryat and Mongolian grandmothers .... Can you show traces of "Vedic Siberian Rus" in Siberia ...? And then I don't remember those ...
          2. Fat
            0
            22 August 2018 17: 41
            By the way, the kingdom of Vedic Siberian Russia reached the territories of modern China.

            Once you happily passed Great Tartaria and Siberian As, right now Vedic Russia ...
  14. 0
    19 August 2018 17: 04
    Both appeared and disappear. What is there to cast a shadow on the fence?
  15. 0
    19 August 2018 22: 59
    Read noticed a few inaccuracies
    Russia was not oppressed, moreover, in the first post-revolutionary years, the Latvian formations were considered privileged, it was they who guarded the Soviet leadership and carried out the most important tasks,
    they were the most combat-ready units in the then red army for the reason that they maintained discipline in their units. Therefore, they were considered privileged. And indeed, seven centuries of history to fit in one article is not fully feasible, which most likely was not the aim of this article
  16. 0
    20 August 2018 13: 39
    Quote: just explo
    Well, from the photo, tell me whom by nationality, for example, does this mummy remind you?

    These are Siberian Scythians, they have nothing to do with Russia
    1. 0
      22 August 2018 07: 12
      I agree with you. There were Caucasians in Siberia, they lived north of Altai - Hagasses and Dinlins ... But about the fact that they were Rus - that there is no such mention anywhere .... The same nomads who came to the southern Russian steppes from Siberia could be Caucasians , but I don’t understand what is their connection with the Russians, as some ....
      1. 0
        22 August 2018 18: 10
        And in China they were, the whole top of the CCP consists of their descendants, 6% of the Han people are descendants of the Siberian Scythians.
        1. 0
          23 August 2018 16: 21
          You better look at the faces of the top of the CCP - well, very similar to the Siberian Scythians. Gyyy ..... And ask them yourself whether they know anything about the Siberian Scythians ... They will die with laughter from your questions. And look at the map again and teach geography. China - THIS IS NOT SIBERIA ...
    2. Cry
      0
      22 August 2018 12: 08
      The photo shows the Tarim mummy dating back to 1950 BC (BC), and the Chinese then lived southeast of Lake Lobnor in the Middle State at the confluence of the Wei and Yellow River (see map of present-day China).
  17. 0
    21 August 2018 09: 21
    Quote from Korsar4
    A good definition of Dahl: "A man of that nationality in what language he thinks."

    So maybe it was under Dahl, and even then I doubt it, otherwise where did the same "Mazepins" come from, now, for example, most of the "Banderlog" think in their native Russian, but at the same time "think" deeply anti-Russian thoughts ...
  18. +1
    22 August 2018 06: 53
    O-PA ..! Again the Lithuanians ... The ancestors of the Belarusians .... So they are the Russians all the same ..? Or these Lithuanians, and even Catholics ....? The pro-Western "comrades" in Belarus are now pushing this version with the Litvins ... Like we have never been together with Moscow. And we won't ...
  19. Cry
    0
    22 August 2018 11: 50
    In 840, the salmon were completely destroyed by Ragnar Lodbrok, and the Curonians managed to pay off, so they are still alive. This is recorded in the “Raid of Ragnar,” read “Acts of the Danes,” by Saxon Grammar, the original in Latin. There is a modern translation into English, made by an English translator, but she is in geography, like Madame Limpopo.
  20. Fat
    0
    22 August 2018 17: 36
    Quote: Andy
    uhh, well, you yourself are clearly Rurikovich. delve into your tree and see who the half-breed golem is. Russia has been so multinational since ancient times that there were pure Russians. And what from this?

    Put +. What kind of pure Russian can it be? Russian is like an adjective ... Rus, maybe Ross, it hasn’t gone yet. So the Balts are Russians, no matter how they deny themselves. It so happened, they are not to blame ... request
    1. -1
      23 August 2018 13: 42
      Russian - no NAME ADVERTISING!
      Zadolbali already with this adjective.
      Russian is "... a special form of a noun, derived from the type of action being performed."
      Examples are watch, steering, helmsman, presenter ..... and so on.
      Sentinel is an adjective? Why, to the machine?
      ...
      I understand, of course, that the "great and mighty" is completely impossible to know and understand completely. It's impossible for anyone.
      For the Russian language is synthetic. Unlike analytic languages ​​.... and there are all of them in Europe, by the way.
      But this adjective is already ......
      The same bodyaga with the Latin word _rab _... from which they allegedly derive the origin of the name _Slavian, Slavs_.
      It’s not difficult to put upside down what the order is for. It is paid, as they say.
  21. +1
    23 August 2018 00: 57
    Those who are especially interested give a link to the main source, which for some reason is not given by the author of the publication and brief information about the author and the contents of the fundamental work on the history of the region.
    The author of the first fundamental study on the history of the Ostsee provinces - "An Essay on the History of Livonia, Estonia and Courland" - is Arbuzov (Leonid Arbuzov (German: Leonid Arbusow; January 7 (19), 1848, Mitava, Courland Province, Russian Empire - January 1 (14), 1912 , Riga, Livonia province, Russian Empire) - Russian historian, medievalist, specialist in the history of Livonia and the Baltic states).
    The German edition was published in 1889 and was later reprinted twice, the Russian edition translated by V. Bock was published in St. Petersburg in 1912.
    Arbuzov traces the history of the Ostsee region from its “discovery” by the commercial and religious missions of the Holy Roman Empire in the middle of the XNUMXth century to the reforms of the second half of the XNUMXth century, aimed at reducing German influence in the region. In his work, Arbuzov notes the positive influence that German colonization had on the Baltic region, and criticizes the policy of transferring education from German to Russian, believing German school education in Ostzey region exemplary for all of Russia. At the end of the text of the Russian edition, Arbuzov notes the presence in society of the expectations of a major war and a social explosion.
  22. 0
    23 August 2018 13: 28
    Eh, the topic is not fully disclosed, for example, I still did not understand whether the Chukhons dug the Gulf of Finland or not. Well, zhmud-kursi with zemgale, respectively - the Baltic Sea.
    It would be interesting to know at what time the Zhmuds with Ests buried amber in the sand, under the current Pionersky and further along the coast.
    It is not at all said how heroically the Zemgals fought with the Normans - and, therefore, Gardarik was defended by the breasts from the wild Vikings. As if Russia, now, the bill was not presented for the defense against the Scandinavian barbarians. They, these barbarians, seemingly because they went to Europe and Britain to smash that on the eastern coast of the Baltic they had a bummer.
    And then - the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and the Rzeczpospolita - were located "... from sea to sea ..". It is quite reminiscent with what foam on their lips in 1989-1990 the local "leather" comrades - the Lithuanians brandished this bogey - Great Lithuania with Vytautas from sea to sea.
    What is most significant, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania really had borders on the Baltic Sea. And Black - but only because the wild, dull, provincial steppe, where Ukraine is now located, was not needed for nothing. And the north-east-eastern border of the GDL generally ran along the Zusha River, the borders of the Oryol Region up to and from Lipetsk and Voronezh.
    True, natural Lithuanians had no side to such an achievement. But who cares then, or cares now.
    Yes, we must ask the author to prepare several more publications, otherwise the end of this turned out to be somewhat crumpled.
    Author, we are waiting for more.
  23. 0
    23 August 2018 14: 39
    I will say a simple thing. While serving in the troops, the Latvians seemed to be guys sitting down at the table to us Russians, where they were accepted without problems and ate together ..... tables of the Caucasians, Asia ... the order ... there was such a period, then they did it by units ... .
  24. +1
    20 September 2018 15: 56
    In other words, this territory lies between the Western and Eastern Slavs.
  25. 0
    23 October 2018 21: 13
    I read the beginning, I do not want to read further. 1) there are no balts. Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are approximately equal mix of Slavs and Finno-Ugric peoples.
    2) Lithuania was created not by the Western Slavs of the Litvinians, but by the Lithuanian princes Gedeminovichi, who were finograys. See Haplogroups.
  26. 0
    13 November 2018 12: 08
    Quote: Trotil42
    The author is clearly paid ... a lie ... and a distortion of facts ... my ancestor (grandfather of the Latgals) .... during the Russian Latgalls received two deportations to Siberia .. robbery and violence ... sawed under the Molotov-Ribenntrop Pact ... genocide and, ultimately, the destruction of the Latgalls ... as a result, there are more of them in Siberia than in Latvia ... therefore, the Baltic states also perceive the Germans as defenders ... well, another nonsense ... that the Soviets liberated Latvia into the Patriotic War ... alas, no ... the red army divisions were formed according to the ethnic principle ... and for the liberation they used the Baltic states from Siberia ... in one of the divisions my grandfather died ... during the genocide ...
    \

    The phenomenal nonsense. The author of the post does not understand anything. And the most important thing is actually that the Latgals and even the Latvians, who after 1945 remained in Siberia and after the Urals, were not very eager for their homeland. There were reasons, they were afraid that they would remember something, not good. After 1991 we went in formation. They became heroes.
  27. 0
    13 November 2018 12: 16
    Quote: Kotischa
    Hardly. That is, why spend beer on those who will go to the expense? Just into the camera and that’s it.

    Well, you and Nain, how for what, in order not to spend ammo. Although Ilya (the Author) was right in the plans of Germany, there was a partial assimilation of the Balts, as ethnic groups close to the Aryan. Moreover, even before the start of World War II, the Germans did not hesitate to cut off tidbits from the Baltic territory.
    Sadly, the leadership of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union did the opposite, hoping for gratitude. For example, Lithuania is modestly silent about what its capital received from the hands of the tyrant and dictator Stalin. Yes, if not the last, then Vilnus remained so Polish Vilna. But who will remember that?
    Now for the article. Dear Ilya, unfortunately I must join the comment above the story did not ask. Somehow below the level of your work to which we are accustomed. Do not be offended for God's sake, well, better is the bitter truth than a sweet lie.
    Now for the Baltic countries! I will tell you purely my personal opinion, which was formed two decades ago. The Baltic countries, because of their policies, should not be a handshake for Russia. That is, until they bring their political systems to common democratic values ​​associated with citizenship, freedom of speech, religion, education. Their governments should be recognized as non-democratic and all contacts should be kept to a minimum. Including economic, socio-cultural and others.
    Half before that he called himself Lithuanian, publicly supported the policy of discriminating the peoples of Russia on the territory of the Baltic countries - a suitcase, a railway station, Riga. I came to speak from Estonia. You publicly accuse the government of the latter for its position on "non-citizens"! If you don't want to, go to Honduras with concerts.
    Today’s slurred position of Russia is terrible for us, so we cannot protect our own people for more than a quarter of a century!
    Sincerely, Kitty!
    \\

    Another hero. Learn geography. If they wrote Lithuanian, then the main city of Vilnius. If the Estonian is Tallinn. If a Latvian - then Riga.
  28. +1
    April 5 2020 13: 12
    // The “core” of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was also not at all the ancestors of modern Lithuanians, but the Litvins - “Western Russians”, Slavs, ancestors of modern Belarusians // -
    Another Russophobe. Perhaps "useful" of Russophobic propaganda.
    "The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russia, Zhemoytiyskoye and other lands" - the state of the Lithuanians, who also seized the Russian lands. And Mindaugas (Mindaugas) was a Lithuanian prince. Well, Yatvyag / Sudav, the same Lithuanians. Somewhere around 1220 he raised an uprising (if in his Suvalkiai he was at all dependent on the Grodno prince, which is in question; perhaps he simply invaded). Alas, he quickly defeated the small Russian principalities in what is now western Belarus. Where the Russians, frankly, were the same crusaders as the Germans. The majority of the population here (aukshaits, yatvyags, villages) have not yet been assimilated by the Slavs, so it is not surprising that Mindaugas made Novogrudok the capital. Well, then he and his successors took up Polotsk, Minsk, etc.
    The argument of the Zmagars: "decrees in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were written in Russian (sorry, in Old Belarussians)" - does not work: in China, under the rule of the Mongols, decrees were written in Chinese, in Iran in Farsi, decrees of the Ottomans in Arab possessions - in Arabic, etc. How else to bring the new laws to the POSITIVE population, in particular about taxes?))) The two other state languages ​​of the ON (already the nobility) were Polish and Latin.
    And the main argument against the "Belarusian ON" is in a simple question: how did it happen that the "Russian state" imposed union and Catholicism? The Orthodox Church was not a state one, polonization was gradually taking place, first of the nobility (including the Russian one), then of the cities and, finally, the union was imposed, and the Russian language and Orthodoxy were outlawed.
    About ethnonyms. Before Peter, both in the north-east of Russia, and in the south-west, the ethnonym "Rusyns" existed, although "Rusich" was also found more often in the North-East than in the South-West. The word "Litvin" was a political name (a subject of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and was originally encountered only in opposition to a subject of the Grand Duchy of Moscow "Muscovite", but not the European "Muscovite"!). I repeat, both called themselves Rusyns. In plural often: "Russian (Russian) people", and hence the abbreviated "Russian (Russian) people." !).
    The Westerner Peter also liked the ethnonym-adjective characteristic of the Germanic languages ​​and the double "s" according to the rules of the European spelling (a single s between vowels there gives the sound / z /). Therefore, the (already existing) names "Russia" and "Russians" were approved as official.

    THE MAIN PURPOSE of the zmagar is to prove that Russia is not the only heir and successor of ancient Russia. And not even an heir at all, but "Moksha bogs". And they are heirs - the descendants of the "Litvin", well, the Ukrainians are few.

    In short, tie up with the propaganda of Belarusian zmagars and Ukrainian Svidomites, ON - was not the heir of ancient Russia. The ONLY direct and continuous heir to the statehood of ancient Russia is the Grand Duchy of Vladimir - the Grand Duchy of Vladimir and Moscow - the Russian (Russian) kingdom - the Russian Empire - the USSR - the Russian Federation. Ukraine and Belarus as part of Russia are also the heirs of ancient Russia. Ukraine and Belarus outside Russia are neoplasms. Moreover, as it turned out, malignant.
  29. 0
    13 May 2024 11: 53
    Good article, in the USSR I lived in Estonia, there was no oppression, my family was Russian, but they learned Estonian, because even though the Estonians knew Russian, they basically didn’t speak, I had to learn, in all schools they taught in Estonian, so what about oppression this is a complete lie. There was work, housing, everything was there, the biggest problem was in kindergartens - there was a shortage of them, maybe it was oppression?