Military Review

Will the US have its own “Dagger”?

46
In the Chinese press, materials began to appear in which the authors reason about the consequences of the Russian defense industry’s data leakage on the creation of hypersonic missile systems. In particular, the arrest of Viktor Kudryavtsev, a Russian specialist in the field of rocket technologies, who was involved in the implementation of the Dagger project, is being discussed.


Will the US have its own “Dagger”?


In other words, Chinese experts are wondering: if the leak in the direction of NATO secret services took place, does that mean that the Dagger created in Russia is definitely unique in its own way, and does it not turn out that tomorrow such a complex will appear, for example from the USA?

At the same time, statements by American generals that the US is concerned about the development of rocket (hypersonic) technologies in Russia and China are cited. And right there it’s added in the materials that the United States could well bluff in this way, hiding that they have the necessary documents in their hands to create the American version of the same Dagger.

Leaks and the transfer of secret information existed at all times, as existed at all times and those who were ready for various reasons to share secret information with geopolitical opponents. In Soviet times, there was an additional ideological barrier, when material benefit could not come first. In the modern conditions of the winning market, the material factor protrudes so much that it becomes more and more difficult to counteract leaks and discharge of strategically important information. And neither Russia, nor the same China (as if with the presence of a communist ideology) is no exception.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. Tusv
    Tusv 14 August 2018 07: 52
    +1
    How do you hope that merged disu
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 14 August 2018 07: 54
      +4
      So the article is similar to stuffing ... all from the field of assumptions.
      1. Russia
        Russia 14 August 2018 07: 59
        +3
        Something the Chinese have stepped up on such articles, reasoning and judgment throughout the world.
        1. cniza
          cniza 14 August 2018 08: 47
          +2
          There is an information war and its front goes everywhere.
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 14 August 2018 20: 25
            +1
            ... this publication is simple - disa ... bully
            Quote Article:
            In particular, the arrest of Russian rocket technology expert Viktor Kudryavtsev, who took part in the implementation of the Dagger project, is being discussed.
            ... laughing ... this V. Kudryavtsev had nothing to do with the development of "Dagger" ... there is a case of 5-7 years ago ... and is connected with "Roscosmos" ... hi
      2. volot-voin
        volot-voin 14 August 2018 08: 00
        +2
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        So the article is similar to stuffing ... all from the field of assumptions.

        Sooner or later, it will certainly appear. That's why it is an arms race. Both industrial espionage and scientists who escaped from the country during the years of chaos and devastation ....... It is sad but true.
    2. Sarmat Sanych
      Sarmat Sanych 14 August 2018 08: 33
      -1
      An information leak occurred 7 years ago in 2011, if something worthwhile went away, as they say, the feed was not in the horse, because during this time both the mattresses and the Europeans in practical hypersound have zero progress. By the way, the source with which the former employee of the Lavochkin NGO Kudryavtsev shared some data on the Internet is a Belgian university, akin to our Baumanka or Massachusetts.
      PS So, the Chinese people really got some progress for this, we should first of all think about this counterintelligence. Although, in fairness for the Sinantrop rubbish on the clone of the Khrushchev Tu-16, of course, far from X47M2.
      1. Inok10
        Inok10 14 August 2018 20: 17
        +1
        Quote: Sarmat Sanych
        An information leak occurred 7 years ago in 2011, if something worthwhile went away, as they say, the feed was not in the horse, because during this time both the mattresses and the Europeans in practical hypersound have zero progress.

        ... just like that ... X-51A ... can’t, and desire is also in question ... laughing
  2. Vladimirovich_4
    Vladimirovich_4 14 August 2018 07: 52
    +2
    Their dagger appeared in them in the 60s. True, it was withdrawn from armament.

    https://topwar.ru/141699-aeroballisticheskaya-raketa-douglas-ws-138a-gam-87-skybolt-ssha.html
    1. aristok
      aristok 14 August 2018 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: Vladimirovich_4
      Their dagger appeared in them in the 60s. True, it was withdrawn from armament.

      https://topwar.ru/141699-aeroballisticheskaya-raketa-douglas-ws-138a-gam-87-skybolt-ssha.html

      What a naive scam?
      It was not withdrawn from service, but not put into service ..
      The test program has not been completed.
      missile GAM-87 looked, to put it mildly, unsuccessful. Of the six test flights, only one successfully completed. No one could say when the rockets showed the required reliability, and what would be the total cost of the program.

      Further development was closed.
      In November 1962, a fundamental decision was made, and on December 22, J.F. Kennedy signed a decree stopping the development of a new aeroballistic missile. Ironically, this happened on the day of the only successful test launch.
      1. Pavel17
        Pavel17 14 August 2018 14: 35
        -1
        I read the article a long time ago. Well forgot. A bit wrong. I don't think this is a scam. All the same, despite the problems, the device was brought to operability. Which is not bad. Especially when you consider when it was
  3. Alex_Rarog
    Alex_Rarog 14 August 2018 07: 52
    0
    It’s not a fact that even with the documentation you can create everything from scratch.
    1. igorbrsv
      igorbrsv 14 August 2018 09: 32
      +1
      And I have the same opinion. The Americans also have a patent for the production of rd-180, however, for technical reasons it did not grow together, plus the cost would be noticeably higher. Will they create something only when?
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 14 August 2018 07: 54
    +2
    ... yes, not soon we will find out that "Eustace" - "Center" dumped ... request
  5. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 August 2018 07: 55
    +6
    Americans have more opportunities to strike at the Russian Federation, at least compare the number of CD carriers and the location of carriers and the location of airfields around the Russian Federation. In the Dagger, it is important that it limits the capabilities of the ACG at a fairly large distance, for the Americans this is not a glitch. They dominate the sea by a wide margin. And on land, the Kyrgyz Republic is no less dangerous than a Iskander or Dagger rocket (and land launchers for calibers are prohibited by contract and there are not so many sea units)
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 14 August 2018 15: 14
      0
      "The important thing for the dagger is that it limits the capabilities of the AUG at a fairly large distance" ///
      ----
      How? More recently, there was an article on VO that the Dagger is able to hit "IMMOVABLE sea targets."
      It is unlikely that the AUG will anchor near the Russian coast in wartime.
      The dagger can be used on remote ground targets of NATO countries. At a depth of instead of 500 km - 1500.
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 14 August 2018 16: 45
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        More recently, there was an article on VO that the Dagger is able to hit "IMMOVABLE sea targets".

        It is, as it were, yes what But, at such a speed of delivery, with YBCh ... The fact of movement AUG does not play a big role ...
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 August 2018 20: 40
        0
        Do you read selective articles? Or between the lines. Already for Iskander they announced a similar dagger to the BR.
      3. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 August 2018 20: 52
        0
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4a2ZE1jZ8

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKtej1ijac
  6. bessmertniy
    bessmertniy 14 August 2018 07: 59
    +2
    Sometimes it flows more than it flows. Let's hope that in this case Russia will not stay on beans. lol
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 14 August 2018 08: 54
      +2
      Quote: bessmertniy
      Let's hope that in this case Russia will not stay on beans.

      Yes .... Really ... It's time to take on the annihilation bomb .... the space-time continuum hyperdisintegrator ... Yes
      PS Made business "innovators" with VO! There is no icon warning about comment responses ... Cannot insert images from the computer!
      1. raw174
        raw174 14 August 2018 10: 08
        0
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Yes .... Really ... It's time to take on the annihilation bomb .... the space-time continuum hyperdisintegrator ...

        You are hopelessly behind the times! HERE:
        An interdepartmental working group will gather in the Russian government with the participation of Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich to discuss the implementation of the National Technology Initiative (NTI) program created by the Agency for Strategic Initiatives (ASI) on behalf of President Vladimir Putin, on Wednesday, June 22. It is reported by Kommersant.

        The ASI plans include the creation by 2035 of a national programming language in Russia, absolutely secure communication based on quantum communications, a new type of communications operator for unmanned systems and teleportation.
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 August 2018 08: 44
    +3
    Materials began to appear in the Chinese press ... the United States could well bluff in this way ...
    Here it is still necessary to figure out who is really bluffing (if so) - Americans or Chinese?
    1. cniza
      cniza 14 August 2018 08: 48
      +3
      It seems to me that both, in fact, are like us.
  8. K-50
    K-50 14 August 2018 08: 52
    +1
    The United States may well bluff, hiding that it has the necessary documents on hand to create the American version of the same “Dagger”.

    Time will pass and find out, and so what to guess. The only thing is that the state has not solved the problem of controlling an object in a plasma cloud.
    If they solve it with documents stolen by a traitor, then that is one thing. If, as they say, "not in the horse feed", then this will show the true capabilities of the clever people from the FSA.
  9. Faceless
    Faceless 14 August 2018 09: 03
    +1
    Tomorrow will not appear for sure. Even if you give a drawing. Production, testing ... All this time. If they want, sooner or later, of course, they will appear - the laws of physics are everywhere the same. The question is what, by that time, we will have, and we certainly will not sit back.
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 14 August 2018 09: 19
    +1
    The "dagger" we see as a means of dealing with something large, floating. The media he needs is Specific. Does the Yankee have this task as a priority? They are already at sea more / stronger than everyone else so far.
  11. amateur2
    amateur2 14 August 2018 09: 25
    0
    And what does Comrade Marjumar from NI think about this? lol
  12. Old26
    Old26 14 August 2018 09: 47
    +2
    Quote: Alex_Rarog
    It’s not a fact that even with the documentation you can create everything from scratch.

    From scratch they will not have to create anything. They have experience including and motor hypersound. But I agree with the comrade Sarmat Sanych in the fact that in recent years (since 2011) the Americans have not observed any breakthrough steps in this matter. One gets the impression that Kudryavtsev is either being used as a "scapegoat", having not found the true source of such a drain, or is being used as a channel for disclosing disinformation. After all, it is generally unknown what kind of information "left". Something real that allows you to do it quickly and reliably or some costly and possibly dead-end option

    Quote: Vladimirovich_4
    Their dagger appeared in them in the 60s. True, it was withdrawn from armament.

    https://topwar.ru/141699-aeroballisticheskaya-raketa-douglas-ws-138a-gam-87-skybolt-ssha.html

    Well, it's not really "Dagger" in terms of comparison.
    BRVZ for hitting stationary targets in them (with a range of EMNIP about 1500 km) and a "product" primarily of anti-ship orientation, flying along a completely different trajectory

    Quote: Zaurbek
    Americans have more opportunities to strike at the Russian Federation, at least compare the number of CD carriers and the location of carriers and the location of airfields around the Russian Federation. In the Dagger, it is important that it limits the capabilities of the ACG at a fairly large distance, for the Americans this is not a glitch. They dominate the sea by a wide margin. And on land, the Kyrgyz Republic is no less dangerous than a Iskander or Dagger rocket (and land launchers for calibers are prohibited by contract and there are not so many sea units)

    So far, information about what the "Dagger" is capable of is most likely from a number of assumptions and speculations. Just take how many tests there were. The last test in July, when its flight range reached 804 km, was very widely covered in our press. And the main thing in this coverage was a complete "processing" of the original information that came from the West. And there it was said that out of 12 tests, only THREE were successful. Ours printed it, but after 4-6 hours the information was cleared up. There is only the phrase that there were 3 tests this year, the tests were successful and the rocket flew to a distance of 800 km
    Therefore, to say that "Dagger" is capable of limiting the capabilities of the AUG is not yet something proven. Only assumptions. For what was announced about him sometimes goes against the laws of physics
  13. Dormidont
    Dormidont 14 August 2018 10: 06
    -1
    Our Western and Middle Eastern partners will have a "Dagger" only if Russia gives them
  14. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 14 August 2018 10: 10
    +1
    The Chinese have recently tested their supersonic missile successfully. Their concerns are understandable, the only question is: from whom did they borrow technology? I think Kudryavtsev was not alone .. bully
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 14 August 2018 10: 30
    -1
    So the Americans already had an air-based BR in the 70s.
    They refused it, since the BRs on the submarine were simpler and more reliable for launch.
    1. aristok
      aristok 14 August 2018 12: 55
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      So the Americans already had an air-based BR in the 70s.
      They refused it, since the BRs on the submarine were simpler and more reliable for launch.

      What naive juggling?
      It was not withdrawn from service, but not put into service ..
      The test program has not been completed.
      "The GAM-87 rocket looked, to put it mildly, unsuccessful. Of the six test flights, only one was successfully completed. Nobody could say when the missiles would show the required reliability, and what the final cost of the program would be."
      Further development was closed.
      "In November 1962, a decision was made in principle, and on December 22, JF Kennedy signed a decree to stop the development of a new aeroballistic missile. Ironically, this happened on the day of the only successful test launch."
      1. aristok
        aristok 14 August 2018 13: 03
        +1
        And if you're talking about AGM-69 SRAM ..,
        then it was not even close to being an analogue of the "Dagger" (unlike the GAM-87).
        Only 160 km maximum range - with altitude flight profile
        and 56 km - at low altitude.
        Its approximate analogue is the Soviet X-15., Which has even better characteristics.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 14 August 2018 13: 32
          -1
          Well, there is the 70s ... The idea of ​​increasing the radius of destruction of short-range missiles by launching from an airplane is simple. It allows you to get this very average range without violating the agreement on the prohibition of the BRDS. In short, a new treaty is needed. And to include China in it is very desirable.
          The Chinese have a full of these BMBs.
          1. aristok
            aristok 14 August 2018 13: 55
            -2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            The idea to increase the radius of destruction of short-range ballistic missiles by launching from an airplane is simple. It allows you to get this very average range without violating the agreement on the prohibition of the BRDS.

            Thanks, Cap..
            It is not clear only how this banality is combined with my objection to your incorrect initial message about what "was, but did not like it"?
            Quote: voyaka uh
            In short, a new treaty is needed. And to include China in it is very desirable.
            The Chinese have a full of these BMBs.

            Who needs? and which?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 14 August 2018 14: 40
              -1
              Russia, of course. Russia does not have nuclear weapons systems that are convenient for use against Chinese ballistic missile systems.
              Short-range ballistic missiles themselves are vulnerable, and ICBMs do not fit well in the minimum radius (and they are busy with targets in America).
  16. HMR333
    HMR333 14 August 2018 10: 40
    0
    yes no, given all the failures of technology in recent years, they have a crisis, they will only develop money! but they are working trying to slam as the USSR did in due time!
  17. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 14 August 2018 10: 44
    0
    Sooner or later, new weapons will appear in the United States and Europe, the only question is who will master the hypersound earlier, and not just individual items (piece), but in large quantities, using missiles both on the ground, in the air and in the navy. A new era of missile weapons is approaching and I really want to hope that Russia is in the forefront.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 14 August 2018 10: 55
      -1
      The first, I think, will be the Chinese. Their project is pragmatic and realistic: to get to the target, planning in the stratosphere with hypersound, then slow down to supersonic at which GOS are operational, and attack the target in small supersonic.
      1. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 14 August 2018 10: 57
        +1
        Maybe so, let me remind you that Russia already has Avangard (in any case, tests are underway)
      2. SETTGF
        SETTGF 14 August 2018 11: 17
        -1
        voyaka uh! Keep your assumptions to yourself ... Under your assumption, all the advantages of a hypersonic weapon are lost ... and at the same time it is not difficult to intercept a hypersonic missile, a planning apparatus, and so on! The dagger is controlled at hypersonic speed, in the plasma stream - this is all salt.
  18. Berkut24
    Berkut24 14 August 2018 11: 02
    +1
    It seems that recently the Chinese have arranged a competition with CNN.
  19. shadow
    shadow 14 August 2018 11: 48
    0
    At one time, stealth technologies were also leaked.)
  20. Piramidon
    Piramidon 14 August 2018 14: 00
    0
    whether it so happens that tomorrow a similar complex will appear, for example, in the USA?

    Judging by the title of the article "Will the USA have its own" Dagger "?", The author is sure that it will.
  21. Old26
    Old26 14 August 2018 15: 28
    +3
    Quote: Dormidont
    Our Western and Middle Eastern partners will have a "Dagger" only if Russia gives them

    Do not underestimate the enemy. It usually ends badly. I don’t know about the Middle East, but in the USA and the Far East it will appear without our participation.


    Quote: SETTGF
    voyaka uh! Keep your assumptions to yourself ... Under your assumption, all the advantages of a hypersonic weapon are lost ... and at the same time it is not difficult to intercept a hypersonic missile, a planning apparatus, and so on! The dagger is controlled at hypersonic speed, in the plasma stream - this is all salt.

    And voyaka uh is absolutely right. Are you seriously so naive that you think that the parameters voiced by the president are true? This product has - NOT MOTOR HYPERSONIC... That is, it does not have a hypersonic ramjet, which would allow keeping the same speed. The speed of the "Dagger" of 10M is achieved at the end of the active section. After that, it starts to fall. So it turns out that ABSOLUTELY ALL BALLISTIC ROCKETS warheads are inhibited in the atmosphere (Iskander's speed drops from 6M to 2M, that is, it becomes supersonic), but the unique Dagger, which has no analogue in the world, apparently flies under the conditions of using alternative physics, does the speed remain unchanged? If you remember, the president said that his speed in the dense layers of the atmosphere is as much as 10M. So, dear, at altitudes from 25 to 11 km, the surface temperature of such a device will be 4277 degrees. Name at least one metal, alloy, or composite that does not melt at this speed. And when falling from a height of 11 km to 0, the surface speed will have a temperature 5778 degrees. Almost temperature SUN SURFACES. And what will withstand such a temperature and how will the homing head work at the same time. Well, you need to at least occasionally turn on the brain, and not believe everything that they say to you from the screen, even if it's the president