Military Review

Japan: from Russia - the northern territories, from the USA - the southern territories ...

112
Japan: from Russia - the northern territories, from the USA - the southern territories ...After the collapse of the Soviet Union, every time a new Russian President enters the country's top post, the next stage of huntings and gasps over the “northern territories” begins in Japan. At the same time, the requirements are often so different that it is not at all clear what exactly the Japanese authorities want to get from Russia. Then give them the entire Kuril ridge, and even cut off half of Sakhalin, then suddenly the claims are reduced to the 4 islands of the South Kuril ridge, then the conversation suddenly comes to 2 islands - Habomai and Shikotan. It seems that ever-changing demands are a special Japanese tactic, which, according to Tokyo, should bear some fruit.

However, in 2012, the Japanese faced a somewhat unexpected problem. If earlier they could flirt with the new Russian leader, expressing words of approval addressed to him and emphasizing that it is he who can bring happiness to the people of the Land of the Rising Sun forever, giving him the Kurils, today there is a person with the Japanese in the highest state post in Russia they are already well acquainted, and he knows all this “Eastern cuisine” very well.

And in general, objectively speaking, it is completely unclear, for whatever reasons, Russia should take, and give the Kuril Islands to Japan. History these places are extremely tangled, which does not allow us to speak of the Kuriles as a “historically Japanese” territory. When the first Russian and Japanese expeditionary corps began to land on the islands in the first half of the 17 of the 20th century, the islands were settled by Ainu tribes. The Ainu had nothing to do with Japan, which is confirmed even by the Japanese themselves. In particular, in the publication The History of Great Japan, published in the 18 century, the author offers information not only about the Kuril Islands, but even about the island of Hokkaido in a special section “Foreign Territory”. Moreover, if we are guided by the legal aspects of the right of a particular state to certain lands, we can turn to treatises relating to the era of the Great Geographical Discoveries. These treatises say something like this: the state has the right to call certain lands its own, which will first create their detailed map. We will not argue - the Japanese created the Kuril map a few years earlier than the cartographers of the Russian Empire. It was in the 30-ies 17-century. However, samples of the card itself make it clear that it cannot be called accurate. Rather, this Japanese, if I may say so, cartography only means that small islands are located north of Hokkaido (Matsumae), but no more (neither exact coastlines, nor real sizes). But in 1643, a more detailed map was made by Dutch navigators, headed by Martin Freese. At the beginning of the 18 century, Russian scientists had already drawn up detailed maps of the archipelago and even entered into business negotiations with the Ainu people, with the result that the majority of the indigenous population of the Kuril Islands received the citizenship of the Russian Empire several decades later.

It turns out that today's words that the Kuriles are exclusively Japanese lands are a real substitute for historical facts. If we are guided by historical paradigms, then it turns out that the Dutch had more rights to call the Kuril chain their territory ... But the Dutch didn’t enter into this senseless dispute, but the Japanese thought it was time for the Kurils to take under their jurisdiction.

Today, the Japanese authorities continue to systematically address this topic, although after the defeat in the Second World War, Japan could have completely lost its own statehood. And those territories that the Soviet Union "staked out" for themselves in 1945 year, can be called an extremely low price paid by Japan to Moscow. We should not forget that Japan itself in 1905, after the defeat in the war of the Russian Empire, had far greater plans for the Pacific territories than the USSR in 1945. And after all, after 1905, there was no mass hysteria in Russia about the authorities in Tokyo resolving the issue with Sakhalin and other territories. It turns out that the Japanese, smiling sweetly, work according to the classical scheme of double standards: “if we win, we demand everything and immediately categorically”, and “if we lose, then give us the territories you conquered back”. But such a policy does not fit in any way with objective reality ...

As another historical document, we should recall the so-called Shimoda treatise. This is a document that was signed between Russia and Japan in 1855. Under this treaty, Russia was entitled to the Kuril Islands, lying north of Iturup. At the same time, Sakhalin Island was to be developed together. After 20 years, the authorities of the Russian Empire decided to cede the Japanese Kurils in exchange for full ownership of Sakhalin. The transaction took place. But in 1905, the arrangements were terminated at the initiative of the Japanese side, which won the war with Russia. Instead of the previous agreement on friendship and cooperation, the notorious Portsmouth Treaty arose. According to this agreement, the southern part of Sakhalin, the Liaodun Peninsula, was ceded to the Japanese, and the Japanese fishermen were granted the right to free fishing along the Russian shores in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the Bering Sea and the Sea of ​​Japan. However, even this did not satisfy the Japanese, who, as winners, were also eager for the payment by Russia of a huge indemnity, the demilitarization of the Russian Far East, and full power on Sakhalin.

The Japanese aspirations were answered by the defeat of the Kwantung Army in August of 45, as a result of which Stalin simply decided to reimburse all his costs. By the way, there is information that after the victory of the USSR over Japan in the Second World War, the northern part of the island of Hokkaido could have departed under the wing of Moscow ... But the allies dissuaded Joseph Vissarionovich from this venture. Although at that time the USSR could well afford to take the opinion of the allies into account and do what it considers necessary, because, as they say, the winners are not judged.

In this connection, the claims of the Japanese side to Russia regarding the Southern Kuriles are completely incomprehensible. Well, dear you, our eastern neighbors, have lost, so be so kind, behave with dignity.

By the way, the Japanese authorities can be advised to try their hand at “returning” the territories, for example, on China - to start demanding the return of Ryozyun (Port Arthur), but you can give advice to demand from Washington to return Tokyo’s Mariana Islands under jurisdiction - well, "Southern territories". But after China and the United States on Torah’s outstretched hands present these lands, it will be possible to talk about the “northern territories”. In the meantime, it would be better to deal with Fukushima ...

Materials used:
http://militera.lib.ru/h/shihsov_av/index.html
http://xpressa.ru/others/2281-yaponiya-i-rossiya-uroki-drug-u-druga.html
http://www.pravda.ru/world/asia/fareast/11-05-2012/1114654-hokkaido-2/
Author:
112 comments
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  1. esaul
    esaul 19 May 2012 07: 43
    +58
    The whole tone of Alexei's article impresses me very much because he expresses a question addressed to the Japs - "Doesn't his face crack ?!" with which I very much agree. Plus - definitely!
    1. YARY
      YARY 19 May 2012 07: 48
      +37
      It seems to me that in general, any article or topic related to the mythical "northern territories" should be excluded from discussions!
      Both in society and at a politically higher level. We don’t have such a topic and that’s it! sad fool am
      1. Prophet Alyosha
        Prophet Alyosha 19 May 2012 08: 03
        +18
        I agree, the question should be closed once and for all!
        1. sergo0000
          sergo0000 19 May 2012 08: 34
          +15
          prophet Alyosha,
          Everything is correct in the article! +
          From a dead donkey their ears, not the Kuril Islands!
          1. Redpartyzan
            Redpartyzan 19 May 2012 08: 48
            +11
            They really heard that while President Putin they’ll get what from Russia.
          2. borisst64
            borisst64 19 May 2012 12: 17
            +12
            I watched through Discovery how products were brought to Japan by sea, they don’t produce a fig from food themselves. Will arise - turn off the tap, hi eat your transistors!
            1. vozn_ser
              vozn_ser 19 May 2012 14: 40
              +20
              And here is how we talked with "zhapi" before !!! laughing laughing laughing

              You're lying, Japanese nature
              Do not twist in the hands!
              I'll see how your skin is
              It breaks on the teeth !! ..
              Will remember your frail family
              Forever Cossack
              And fight it, my darling,
              Only from afar.
              Since you came to visit me
              - Welcome -
              I'm you, completely angry
              A little snack ...



              Ivan gathered for war, said goodbye to his woman.
              - You, Arina, do not bother ... Keep yourself clean.
              He set off on the road. Barely fit on the train.
              And, having arrived in Mukden, he captures the Hunhuz there.

              - Here you are, your noble, cross-eyed offspring.
              Awarded with praise, our warrior rushing at the Japanese.
              And surrounded by a Japanese, he considers them to be ribs.
              And rumor reached Arina, they gave a cross to her child.
              1. snek
                snek 19 May 2012 16: 54
                +10
                Quote: vozn_ser
                And here is how we talked with "zhapi" before !!!

                The reality of that war was somewhat different from the propaganda posters.
          3. 755962
            755962 19 May 2012 22: 42
            +9
            Quote: sergo0000
            From a dead donkey their ears, not the Kuril Islands!

            In the devastating euphoria of "perestroika," Russian diplomats inadvertently gave the Japanese government a reason to hope for a revision of the results of World War II, and although today Tokyo displays a delicate diplomatic flair, these hopes remain. The Kuril concession, in addition to striking at Russia's strategic positions in the Pacific, would set an extraordinary precedent for the resumption of territorial disputes around the world.

            After the destruction of the Yalta-Potsdam order, active attempts are being made to achieve its legal revision. In connection with these disputes, we undertake to firmly assert that the changes that have taken place do not at all entail the possibility of challenging the remaining territorial results of the Yalta-Potsdam agreements. Satisfaction of Japanese claims to the "return" of the islands would mean undermining the very principle of the inviolability of the results of the Second World War. This is especially dangerous now, when the US and NATO aggression against sovereign Yugoslavia has made the map of Europe unsteady.

            The ideologues of perestroika considered it uncivilized to defend Russia's historical achievements. Under the communists, all phenomena and achievements were attributed to the merit of the only correct doctrine, which gave rise to anecdotes like: "The party teaches that gases expand when heated." During perestroika, gases, when heated, just as anecdotally stopped expanding, since this was the teaching of the party that had lost power. Russian grief thinkers again reached the point of absurdity, with pathos rejecting all paternal coffins not only of Soviet, but of all Russian history. However, the United States and Japan are completely clear that in the San Francisco Treaty Japan renounced all the Kuril Islands. is in doubt. For example, the book by the American author D. Reese "The Seizure of the Kuril Islands by the Soviets" is kept in a special depository in Japanese libraries - it contains an excerpt from the reference book of the US Navy, published in 1943. in case of military operations in the area. The directory lists all the "Kuril Islands" with their descriptions from the point of view of military navigation. Among them are the very islands that Japan now declares not belonging to the Kuril chain. The book quotes a recording of a conversation between A. Dulles and Yosida, the then Minister of Foreign Affairs of Japan, who asked if it was possible to present the case in such a way that the Yalta-Potsdam decision did not apply to the southern islands of the Kuril ridge. Dulles replied that such a drastic change in previous agreements would require years of controversy, which would delay Japan's gaining full sovereignty indefinitely. So Japan realized which islands it was losing.

            High-ranking Japanese official Nishimura, director of the Peace Treaty Department of the Japanese Foreign Ministry, while presenting the terms of the San Francisco Treaty in the Japanese parliament, explained that "the concept of the Kuril Islands, which appears in the treaty, includes all islands, both northern and southern." In response to reproaches from the nationalists, Nishimura replied in parliament that "the loss of sovereignty entails for Japan the loss of the right to speak out about the ultimate ownership of the territory."

            One must also calmly refer to the Soviet-Japanese declaration of October 19, 1956, which ended the state of war, and also declared the USSR's consent to transfer the islands of Habomai and Sikotan to Japan, but after the conclusion of a peace treaty. The declaration is different from the contract and is a protocol of intent. During this time, Japan entered into a military cooperation agreement with the United States, securing the indefinite presence of American armed forces on its territory. The troops of a third party, the United States, would not fail to appear on the islands. For all the short-sightedness of Khrushchev's statement, it is not about “returning,” but about “transferring,” that is, the readiness to dispose of our territory as an act of goodwill, which does not create a precedent for revising the outcome of the war. The statements that a peace treaty is supposedly necessary for normal relations are also untenable. There are cases in international law when a post-war settlement did without one. There was no peace treaty with Germany, the state of war with which was terminated unilaterally by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR and legal acts of the allied powers.

            The principle of the inviolability of the results of World War II should be taken as the basis for a new stage in Russian-Japanese relations, and the term "return" should be forgotten forever. But maybe it is worth letting Japan create a museum of military glory on Kunashir, from which the Japanese pilots fantastically bombed Pearl Harbor. Let the Japanese more often remember what the Americans did in return, and about the US base in Okinawa, but they feel the Russians' tribute to the former enemy.http://www.pravoslavie.ru/analit/global/kurily.htm
            1. Che
              Che 21 May 2012 14: 18
              +3
              755962,
              The USSR did not conduct a nuclear bombardment of Japan, did not occupy Okinawa. With amers let them ask about all their crimes. wassat
        2. domokl
          domokl 19 May 2012 09: 13
          +15
          The right words, but not feasible .. Putin and Medvedev have already said so many times that the issue is not subject to discussion, but spring-autumn aggravation came and questions arose in Japan again ...
          1. older
            older 19 May 2012 11: 03
            +15
            Sasha, well, it will come to them someday .. Especially in the light of the revival of our army and navy ... You just need to explain in the East, with the cruisers and Iskanders in the Kuril Islands ... They don’t understand otherwise
            1. recitatorus
              recitatorus 19 May 2012 12: 18
              +19
              Delicacy for delicate, but with boors it is necessary to speak boorish - go to x ..!
        3. patline
          patline 19 May 2012 11: 43
          +16
          prophet Alyosha,
          the question should be closed once and for all!

          The islands should be renamed to the Russian mode and mastered intensively. To establish military bases, civilian infrastructure, and to extract minerals and seafood.
          Well, Stalin often remember in vain more often that Hokkaido was not taken from mercy.
          1. timurpl
            timurpl 19 May 2012 18: 04
            +4
            Quote: patline
            The islands should be renamed to Russian mode

            + PIN IN THE CONSTITUTION: NO means NO! Smoke sakura ...
        4. Ross
          Ross 19 May 2012 13: 13
          +2
          prophet Alyosha,
          This is exactly the unanimous decision that should be. Neither today nor in the future, we are discussing the issue of the Kuril Islands. Point!
        5. Alex63
          Alex63 21 May 2012 02: 42
          0
          The Japanese just never do anything. If they started talking about the Kuril Islands again, then someone in our government gave them a reason. Question: who is this person?
          Think of Damansky. Who gave it to China?
          1. Ataturk
            Ataturk 21 May 2012 02: 57
            0
            Send Kuzkin mother to the Kuril Islands, the topic closes in an instant.
      2. domokl
        domokl 19 May 2012 08: 40
        +13
        In fact, the Japanese simply missed the moment when the issue could be resolved quickly and without any particular problems for Japan .. I mean the kingdom of Yeltsin ... Then Russia would give up the islands (though then it would bite its elbows, as is happening now with the Crimea) without any problems.
        But now the claims of the Japanese will no longer even look ridiculous ... It's like whining a capricious kid-Give, I want .... Yes, no one will give anything ... We have invested too much in the Kuril Islands and these islands are important both economically and politically , and militarily ... I think Putin shouldn’t even talk about this .. There have been so many statements that only an alien could not hear them ... We need to act like Medvedev did when he spoke to Saakashvili, talking to this person I will never .. and still not talking ...
        1. crossbow
          crossbow 19 May 2012 08: 57
          +8
          Hehe, Yeltsin almost gave up the Kuril Islands, it was a matter, he blurted out somehow (probably drunk as always) about such an opportunity, but in the country there was such a noise that he just pretended that he was misunderstood, I remember it well .
          1. sergskak
            sergskak 19 May 2012 10: 38
            +5
            But once upon a time they had the Kuril Islands and half of Sakhalin and eastern China. Well, they really want to go from the island to the mainland. They rolled their lips like a Kuril shelf, and even Putin came to power unexpectedly. All that shines for them is the sun on its own flag.
          2. older
            older 19 May 2012 11: 05
            +4
            Quote: crossbow
            Yeltsin almost gave up the Kuril Islands, there was a case
            In .. then he fell off the bridge drunk laughing And immediately I understood everything, I forgot what I said ...
        2. Drednout
          Drednout 19 May 2012 13: 31
          +6
          Quote: domokl
          the Japanese simply missed the point where the issue could be resolved quickly

          Greetings, Alexander. I will add still the times of the Nobel laureate with a birthmark. Shevardnadze with him gave a 200-hundred-mile stretch of territorial waters to the United States and could easily have shikotan and Kunashir brushed aside a couple of containers with video recorders.
          Shame, but now that's enough!
      3. older
        older 19 May 2012 11: 02
        +3
        Quote: Ardent
        We don’t have such a topic and that’s all
        What kind of person are you ... But the Yapes have and need to explain your words to them intelligibly, what Putin is doing ... Rejoice, the whole Putin is explaining you drinks
        1. IGR
          IGR 19 May 2012 11: 04
          +1
          and Putin came to power unexpectedly

          drinks so unexpectedly!
          1. oiuy
            oiuy 19 May 2012 12: 28
            -30
            The amazing rhetoric in the article is "the next stage of groans and gasps" ....
            Is this a civilized dialogue? Doubtful yes
            In order to try to understand the Japanese side, it is simply necessary to present its point of view on this issue, just. And do not bang your head against the wall in trying to deal with historical facts - just take and study the facts and arguments of the Japanese and you will be happy
            1. Winter
              Winter 19 May 2012 12: 48
              +13
              Quote: oiuy
              just take and study the facts and arguments of the Japanese

              Do we need it ??? fool fool fool
            2. Cadet787
              Cadet787 19 May 2012 13: 31
              +9
              oiuy.
              The Japanese are beating just their heads against the wall, while non-residential ones deal with historical facts. And save your advice for your close EU and NATO.
            3. scutum
              scutum 19 May 2012 13: 34
              +5
              arguments and facts - September 2, 1945 - what other facts do the "sons of Amateras" need - or do they want to repeat for an encore?
            4. smile
              smile 19 May 2012 16: 19
              +6
              oiuy
              Well studied. Well - our smokers and no one will ever give them up. We have long understood the Japanese side, which has territorial claims to us, the Chinese, the Vietnamese and the Koreans. And it became "happiness for us" ... and what next? I understand that you would be happy to sell something that does not belong to you (namely ours), this is apparently a distinctive quality of a common man. But here you will not succeed - hell to you all over the world. And even you understand that. So what are you talking about? I understand that for some reason you are very offended. But maybe you should quite civilized give the poor Japanese something of your own? For example a kidney. Or does your altruism not extend that far?
            5. revnagan
              revnagan 19 May 2012 22: 17
              +3
              Quote: oiuy
              In order to try to understand the Japanese side, it is simply necessary to present its point of view on this issue, just

              And the Japanese, at the same time, let them study the Russian point of view. And accept it together with the Russian business arguments ... Well, if it’s simple, according to the worker-peasant-BANANA im. With refined dust.
            6. Фокус
              Фокус 20 May 2012 00: 02
              +1
              Let your Japanese ears and ears study facts, arguments, look and shut up.
            7. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 20 May 2012 03: 22
              +1
              it’s simpler and more reliable once to shy away a nuclear club between the horns, this narrow-eyed bastard is absolutely not educated, so you can talk to them only from a position of strength
            8. sergskak
              sergskak 20 May 2012 12: 52
              +1
              Well .... Give at least one argument.
              Quote: oiuy
              just take and study the facts and arguments of the Japanese and you will be happy

              What exactly do you mean?
            9. kostiknet
              kostiknet 22 May 2012 10: 23
              0
              Quote: oiuy
              In order to try to understand the Japanese side, it is simply necessary to present its point of view on this issue, just.

              "Woe to the vanquished !!" An ancient truth, isn't it? Yapam jump to the skies for joy because they got off so easily, and they are trying to greyhound! angry Of course, they beg nicely (the restaurant chain is called "Give sushi" feel ), but this is not a reason for the loser in the WAR, and not in the bridge country to open her mouth !!! Otherwise, China itself Moscow "China-Proud" will require fool
      4. Num lock U.A.
        Num lock U.A. 19 May 2012 14: 43
        +4
        Quote: Ardent

        It seems to me that in general, any article or topic related to the mythical "northern territories" should be excluded from discussions!

        perhaps
        but articles are needed if only so that there remains in society an understanding of the development and protection of the Far East, as a reminder, if you like, of neighboring states claiming (and rather persistently) to these territories, which means that both the army and the navy are needed , and the development of infrastructure by itself
      5. Ortrega
        Ortrega 25 May 2012 12: 31
        0
        With the same success, Russia may demand that the United States return Alaska fellow
      6. Nikolay_33
        Nikolay_33 17 June 2012 18: 37
        0
        I think we should never even use the term "northern territories", but use our names. Using other people's terms, we subconsciously agree to someone else's point of view.
    2. beech
      beech 19 May 2012 22: 41
      +1
      a clear article, especially the last paragraph I liked !!! Plus, definitely)))
    3. chistii20
      chistii20 15 June 2012 13: 07
      0
      Not a mug and a snout
  2. Armata
    Armata 19 May 2012 07: 54
    +10
    All I can say to the author is "+". Organ just below the tie you "tovarischi" with almond-shaped eyes and not our territory. angry
    1. older
      older 19 May 2012 11: 06
      +8
      Quote: Steam Train
      Organ just below the tie you "tovarischi" with almond-shaped eyes and not our territory.
      Kind ... I need my organ myself .. I am a tolerant, therefore I won’t even give an organ, but I’ll say culturally .. don’t stop me from posting my Iskanders on my territory .. against Polynesia ...
  3. Ridder
    Ridder 19 May 2012 07: 58
    +9
    We are not afraid of the Japanese, but our neighbor, China, will soon capture migration without a war, this is the problem. We have practically no borders with him. I don’t want to. I don’t want the Chinese to plantation plantations on our land.
    1. Malyavka
      Malyavka 19 May 2012 09: 29
      +4
      Ridder
      We are not afraid of the Japanese, but our neighbor, China, will soon capture migration without a war, this is the problem. We have practically no borders with him. I don’t want to. I don’t want the Chinese to plantation plantations on our land.
      It will be so, but not because they want it, but because it was intended to be so.
    2. M. Peter
      M. Peter 21 May 2012 21: 11
      +1
      You are a citizen where do you live? In the Far East, or closer to Moscow?
      There is no such problem.
      It seems to me like a resident of eastern Siberia living on the border with China that there is a threat of the capture of Moscow by the Tajiks ...
      Maybe I'm wrong?
  4. KDM-219
    KDM-219 19 May 2012 08: 01
    +5
    A good article ... It seems to me that the tsunami in Japan in 2011 was not accidental, since before that Russia was almost on the verge of a conflict with Japan, which had already begun to prepare its troops (the so-called liberation)) ... After the tsunami They The Japanese Island rose by 2 meters (Freebie territory for them) even if it rejoices that they took the land from nowhere))
  5. volcano
    volcano 19 May 2012 08: 04
    +4
    Thanks Alexey. Plus the article.
    My opinion is that the Japanese get killed. In general, how much can this topic be procrastinated. Russian flags are burning and you want us to make concessions to you. You haven’t answered us for Tsushima.
  6. Prorox
    Prorox 19 May 2012 08: 08
    +2
    Let them try to take it away, you look and Hokkaido will move to Russia, there is a chance and the name in Russian has already been invented and stored waiting in the wings.
  7. andrey777
    andrey777 19 May 2012 08: 09
    +5
    The Kuril Islands is a geostrategic object of Russia and so that they don’t speak from Japan with all due respect to its citizens, Russia will not give them
    1. esaul
      esaul 19 May 2012 08: 14
      0
      andrey777,
      Andrey, good morning. I agree
      Quote: andrey777
      and so they don’t speak from Japan

      - Japanese Wishlist will remain Japanese Wishlist laughing
  8. Tersky
    Tersky 19 May 2012 08: 14
    +5
    Well, the author is right, at first let Ryojun be taken from China, and then they turn to us, and only to be sent .... It's time to close this topic on the Kuril Islands of Russia once and for all, because looking at the cross-eyed is too much yapping posts around Russia divorced and everyone wants to grab at least a piece. Respect to the author!
    1. Armata
      Armata 19 May 2012 08: 28
      +5
      Greetings to Victor. Once and for all, the topic of the Kuril Ridge can always be closed in only one way, to erase Japan as a country, and one must prepare for the fact that they will always be pulled to the side of Russia, because the Yankees are there.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 19 May 2012 09: 05
        +2
        Good health, Gennady! Well, that’s right, in order to free their own territory from the US Marines (transferring the WB from Okinawa to Guam), the cross-eyed paid the last 3,1 billion dollars, and this is for their own land, nonsense lol Russia probably also needs a couple of YABs to throw them, as the states at one time, and then demand 3,1 billion
    2. dld35057
      dld35057 19 May 2012 12: 50
      +1
      they seem to like it when they are sent — they enjoy it.
  9. IGR
    IGR 19 May 2012 08: 17
    +1
    article +. But I would like to go from the opposite. What can Russia claim? There were no colonies, but at one time they bit off the empire quite a few. Continue the logical series: Alaska, Aleuts, Dalian, Port Arthur, Constantinople, Crimea, Courland .....
    1. Drednout
      Drednout 19 May 2012 13: 35
      +1
      Igor, I could be wrong (correct, who knows), but Alaska seemed to be leased for 300 years in the mid-19th century. And it makes no sense to pretend - to master yours in the normal way.
      1. IGR
        IGR 19 May 2012 14: 01
        +1
        Dear Rasul!
        the contractual base is considered nullified in 1917, then again in 1945 the zones of influence were divided. This is the work of international lawyers and the will of the state. And they are trying to breed us with small bites. Each of them has a simple PR, because election and legitimacy are the basis of democracy. Moreover, mainly the Baltic states, Georgia, Moldova ... its main consumers.
        In Azerbaijan (Uzbekistan) autocracy and posts are mostly mature.
        Sorry generously - if you offended anyone.
  10. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 19 May 2012 08: 23
    +4
    The question will be closed on the islands, there is now a lot of my strength. The Japanese themselves understand everything, and all their idle talk for the local electorate.
    1. esaul
      esaul 19 May 2012 08: 30
      0
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      all their chatter for the local electorate.

      Exactly, Alexander. Any new government in Tokyo puts the Kuril Islands as the "Sacred Cow" at the head of all their programs in order to attract the sympathies of the electorate. works - win-win. The Yap saliva has accumulated on this issue, the mouth is full.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 19 May 2012 09: 08
        +4
        Valera, can you remember the time when the Japanese schooners poached in our waters every day, countless licenses. Now the Japanese have crossed the state border by the only cases, so they again lost the battle for the islands.
        1. esaul
          esaul 19 May 2012 09: 13
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          maybe you remember the time when the Japanese schooners poached in our waters every day, countless provocations. Now the violation of the state border by the Japanese is the only case, so they lost the battle for the islands again

          Of course, these times are memorable. The bosses of the Tsuki dominated, as at home and even in a formidable pose they became when their ships were delayed by our border guards. And now - have quieted down, times have changed - after all, you can shlopotat along the crest ....
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 19 May 2012 09: 18
            +3
            Quote: esaul
            And now - have quieted down, times have changed - after all, you can shlopotat along the crest ...

            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            when Japanese schooners poached daily in our waters, law enforcement was countless.

            Valera, Alexander, welcome! It's time for the VG to give the go-ahead for a couple of spans of our Carcasses, they will become even quieter laughing
            1. esaul
              esaul 19 May 2012 09: 34
              +2
              Quote: Tersky
              give the go-ahead for a couple of spans of our carcasses, become even quieter

              Salute, buddy. Oh yeah! TUSHKES they - have guessed in full! laughing
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 19 May 2012 09: 46
              +3
              Good morning Victor, when our people fly, the Japanese annoy the alarm every time. And ours fly every day, I'm talking about 27, and that 22 has begun to appear. What Hokaido smokers in such conditions would be preserved.
    2. Prorox
      Prorox 19 May 2012 18: 09
      0
      Japan must be understood in such a way that the concept is combined into one, and those suffering from sick fantasies of the "northern" territories into special clinics according to their profile and without Russian reminders.
  11. malera
    malera 19 May 2012 09: 26
    +8
    Quote: domokl
    In fact, the Japanese simply missed the moment when the issue could be resolved quickly and without any particular problems for Japan .. I mean the kingdom of Yeltsin ... Then Russia would give up the islands (though then it would bite its elbows, as is happening now with the Crimea) without any problems.
    But now the claims of the Japanese will no longer even look ridiculous ... It's like whining a capricious kid-Give, I want .... Yes, no one will give anything ... We have invested too much in the Kuril Islands and these islands are important both economically and politically , and militarily ... I think Putin shouldn’t even talk about this .. There have been so many statements that only an alien could not hear them ... We need to act like Medvedev did when he spoke to Saakashvili, talking to this person I will never .. and still not talking ...

    If the current Kremlin regime declared that there is no such problem as the Kuril Islands and there would be no problem.
    For now, the Foreign Ministry’s position is muddy. He claims that this is our sovereign territory, he acknowledges that the problem remains, giving the Japanese a reason for claims.
    Here you are:
    The problem of the Kuril Islands should be resolved in Russia through a referendum. This was stated by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, ITAR-TASS reports. 30.01.2012, 03:05 "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" - www.rg.ru
    1. IGR
      IGR 19 May 2012 09: 42
      +2
      The problem of the Kuril Islands should be resolved in Russia through a referendum. This was stated by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov,

      A referendum is not an election - the answer is obvious: "Fuck you!" and the procedure and protocol are followed. Democracy und Diplomacy however.
    2. The Volga barge
      The Volga barge 19 May 2012 10: 40
      +1
      "Turbid" is a policy, it is not accepted to speak unequivocally here. It is always necessary to leave room for "maneuver". A referendum is just a waste of money, the answer is clear.
  12. Volkhov
    Volkhov 19 May 2012 09: 33
    -11
    The issue of whether the Kuril Islands belong to the competence of the United States or another state - the forces of the Russian Federation in the region will not allow keeping the Kuril Islands by force, as well as Kamchatka and Chukotka. The maximum that is possible is partisanism in Kamchatka, the Kuril Islands and Chukotka are not even suitable for this.
    The RF Armed Forces are organized in such a way that in any attempt to take an independent course, full openness of the sea borders for the US Navy and allies and the land border for the PLA will appear. Citizens of the Russian Federation themselves have surrendered their defense to scrap.
    Hope for nuclear weapons is an illusion, because it is run by people who destroyed the USSR and the army, who keep their money and children abroad. Modern disarmament with propaganda cover about "renewal" is the eve of the act of rejection of territories as a result of the war.
    Hooray-patriotism and reality are two different things, but if you like it, drink another glass and rule the Galaxy ...
    1. anchonsha
      anchonsha 19 May 2012 10: 23
      +2
      And you, my friend, a great and confused pessimist and not a patriot of your country ...
    2. 11Goor11
      11Goor11 19 May 2012 16: 21
      +1
      It seems to you Volkhov, one glass did not help sad
      Be more cheerful!
      In Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky alone, there is enough "working iron" to beat off any "Wishlist".
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 19 May 2012 17: 55
        -3
        Quote: 11Goor11
        In Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky alone, there is enough "working iron" to beat off any "wishlist"


        Dear Ukrainian political worker, who became a "captain" in 2 weeks, "iron" must be transported by a time machine from the 70s, now it lies along the edges of the bay, the arsenal exploded long ago, tanks and self-propelled guns were taken out, though a group of "Cossacks" appeared, the authorities hope for their assistance to the police, i.e. there may be partisans in Kamchatka.
        Shumshu Island has been uninhabited for 3 years, but there is a large strip of the Japanese airfield with heating with thermal waters, you just need to clean it and you can open the airport.
        The euthanasia of people with cheers-patriotism is the surest way to death, it is like sending a blind man to the mountains, it can be seen that the Russians are bothering you greatly.
        1. Фокус
          Фокус 20 May 2012 00: 19
          0
          Well, the Japanese will seize the islands with their "blitzkrieg" and that, after a while, we will transfer troops there and knock them out, but seriously as long as we have nuclear weapons no one will stick there, there are no suicides, what a nuclear strike is, the Japanese know well.
        2. 11Goor11
          11Goor11 20 May 2012 01: 31
          0
          Guys stop minus Volkhov, although all this is nonsense ...
          Forgive Vasily, I still served there under the Union. Zavoyko village, anti-submarine ship base. Is everything really so bad?
          There should also be a large anti-submarine cruiser, 3 small and submarines in Vilyuchinsk?
          1. 11Goor11
            11Goor11 20 May 2012 03: 12
            +1
            Hmm, my memory is already about the distant past.
            "Chervana Ukraine" is already "Varyag" all large anti-submarine in Vladik,
            and in Avachinsky what?
            In general, a lot of conflicting information has been circulating in the network recently.
            for example, an opus about the exercises of the fleet in Kamchatka
            http://ru-compromat.livejournal.com/420568.html
            This "writer" Kravchuk, I would ...
            I was especially impressed by how "bolts, screws, nuts poured from the missiles flying out", an amazingly big-eyed guy!
            And here is a thorough analysis of the vile article with real photos of the shooting results
            http://twower.livejournal.com/640158.html
            "Filter, filter, and filter again!"
            as comrade Dzerzhinsky bequeathed.
            1. 11Goor11
              11Goor11 20 May 2012 18: 15
              0
              Here is a video about the exercises of the TF in Kamchatka
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVyRwKqOtKg
    3. sergiosenin
      sergiosenin 20 May 2012 19: 41
      0
      remember about the Russian spirit !!! My friend, I’m sure that if force capture is used, then without the federal army there will be many volunteers and if at least 100 thousand are gathered, then I think we will tear apart 147 millionth Japan to shreds. Kuril they are Russian and any citizen of Russia they are considered their own !!!
  13. Yarbay
    Yarbay 19 May 2012 09: 45
    +1
    Not often my position coincides with the position of Mr. Volodin, but this is the case in which I fully support him!
  14. andrey586
    andrey586 19 May 2012 09: 58
    0
    The Japanese are looking at the tactics of China with about. Damansky chose the same tactics of nausea and whining, only the tsunami prevented even military aggression
    1. smile
      smile 19 May 2012 16: 34
      0
      andrey586
      You are not quite right. Their policy with respect to the islands is in strict accordance with the eternal traditions of Japanese, both foreign and domestic policies, which have not changed at all over the past millennium. They have such a mentality - they simply cannot do otherwise. We just have to ignore them, just like they do, for example. South Koreans.
  15. sergey69
    sergey69 19 May 2012 10: 35
    +5
    Khrushchev also wanted to give the Kuriles to Japan, but the entry of an American base on the territory of Japan prevented this. So they themselves are to blame. And your president needs to close this topic and not give hope to the Japanese. And then in the negotiations you then give up the 2 islands that joint development of the islands. So that it wouldn’t work out with China, which was given half a ton of islands on the Amur and with Norway with Azerbaijan.
  16. drago36
    drago36 19 May 2012 10: 45
    +2
    Damn it seems a little shook them)))
  17. iulai
    iulai 19 May 2012 10: 48
    +3
    if the Japanese so want to smoke, let them come and pick up if they can. I swear, like small children.
  18. eddie
    eddie 19 May 2012 11: 06
    +2
    really lost and lost why make a reservation in 1945 we could shake them even more
  19. vkz
    vkz 19 May 2012 11: 21
    +3
    The article is good except for the penultimate sentence. IMHO, no talk whatsoever about the so-called "northern territories" with the Japanese, without any dependence on their relations with the United States or any other countries.
  20. Patriot of Russia
    Patriot of Russia 19 May 2012 11: 23
    +5
    they don’t lose hope. more than a meter! otherwise the whole country will be pulled apart in pieces !!
  21. Dok-stavros
    Dok-stavros 19 May 2012 12: 16
    +1
    By the way, the Japanese authorities can be advised to test their strengths in terms of "returning" the territories, for example, in China - to start demanding the return of Ryojun (Port Arthur), or you can give advice to demand that Washington return the Mariana Islands to Tokyo's jurisdiction - well, than not "Southern territories". Now, after China and the United States, with outstretched hands, present these lands to Tokyo, it will be possible to talk about the "northern territories". In the meantime, it would be better to deal with Fukushima... The last paragraph of the article is especially pleasant. It's simple and understandable not to see the Kuril Islands as their ears to the Japanese.
  22. darkman70
    darkman70 19 May 2012 12: 55
    +3
    You can’t give your territories. This is a sign of weakness. Give your finger, and then chop off the whole hand. A strong state cannot even have a discussion with anyone about this.
  23. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 19 May 2012 13: 03
    +4
    It is their Americans who are inciting us to grab our lands. As Japan was a puppet of the Anglo-Saxons, it remained. Here it is - a commitment to tradition, almost in the Japanese style.
  24. MacTavish
    MacTavish 19 May 2012 13: 40
    +2
    Remember Damansky. And he was given to the Chinese in 2000 quite officially. so the japs ​​don't get off us
    1. scutum
      scutum 19 May 2012 15: 33
      -1
      they don’t get down - they’ll slide so ... but in general we are legally still at war - there are more military equipment in the Kuriles and Sakhalin, as they say, good and different ... the truth can happen irreparable wink - after that our "sworn friends" will begin to do hara-kiri en masse ... wink
  25. Cadet787
    Cadet787 19 May 2012 13: 41
    0
    If the Japanese will own the Kuril Islands, the Pacific Fleet of Russia will become an internal fleet. exits to the large ocean will be blocked. And this is the main reason.
  26. Vadim-ragalevich
    Vadim-ragalevich 19 May 2012 14: 18
    +1
    We don’t even need to discuss this topic with the Japanese. Let the Americans or the Chinese give them what they want. And for us this topic should not exist! And there’s nothing to talk about!
  27. Sniper 1968
    Sniper 1968 19 May 2012 14: 50
    +2
    Here’s the Japanese city man! Well, they won’t calm down at all. They shake their thin fists and look angrily with their narrow eyes. Comrade Japanese, I want to tell you one thing: HORRY YOU! Especially impressive can make themselves hara-kiri ... lol
  28. dred
    dred 19 May 2012 15: 39
    +1
    Quote: Scutum
    do not get off - so they will slide ... but in general, we are legally still in a state of war with them - there are more military equipment on the Kuriles and Sakhalin, as they say, good and different ... the truth can happen irreparable - after that our "sworn friends will begin to do massively hara-kiri "...

    They will not climb. Japan does not have such powers. You should remind Japan of the defense forces and not a full-fledged army.
    1. scutum
      scutum 19 May 2012 15: 51
      +1
      Thanks for clarifying - but I know that. Japan, by the way, did not have the authority to participate in World War II - did it somehow stop them? lol
  29. cobra66
    cobra66 19 May 2012 16: 11
    +1
    But will they deign to go to all known addresses with such appetites
    1. scutum
      scutum 19 May 2012 16: 15
      0
      well, they’ve already been at this address for about 67 years, just by inertia and obstinacy they still blather ....
  30. Odinplys
    Odinplys 19 May 2012 16: 31
    +1
    Kuril Islands ... do not give ... Alaska back ...
  31. SectoR
    SectoR 19 May 2012 16: 43
    +18
    Any questions? No questions.
    1. Sana
      Sana 20 May 2012 12: 49
      0
      hahaha laughed heartily
  32. razved
    razved 19 May 2012 16: 53
    +1
    It is important that the story in Damansky and Bolshoi Tarabarov islands does not repeat itself.
  33. TekhnarMAF
    TekhnarMAF 19 May 2012 17: 07
    +3
    SectoR Not an eyebrow but an eye !!! I served on Iturup-DIVINE places! The truth is wild (wretched infrastructure for life), but if you put your hands on the eden for relaxation! I hope they will show what is in the picture (!!!!!!!) with you. By the way, today is the anniversary of the Pioneer. I congratulate everyone who wore a red tie!
    1. scutum
      scutum 19 May 2012 17: 28
      +1
      Mutually - with a holiday! and japanese except that in the picture they’ll get nothing more ... well, unless if only the same thing, only in the plural ... laughing
  34. crutogin
    crutogin 19 May 2012 19: 18
    +2
    Japan is not a country, but a US need.
  35. Num lock U.A.
    Num lock U.A. 19 May 2012 20: 26
    +2
    All these statements from Japan about the ownership of the islands are very much like begging bully
    give it back, this is my toy! tongue
  36. Simon
    Simon 19 May 2012 20: 55
    +2
    Yeah ..! Give them the Kuril Islands, they and Siberia will later want. And what are they they do not require the Mariana Islands from the Americans? In short, I DULE them good and right in the nose. angry
  37. Odesit
    Odesit 19 May 2012 21: 00
    +3
    Let’s better engage in the production of household appliances, as before! And then you can get a skull!
    Japan has ceased to be a serious threat, these are not the samurai who were ready to sacrifice for the sake of Yamato!
    Amer their strongly corrupted spiritually, so now it’s the next people traders, thinking only about their profits!
    Yes, in case of conflict, we will crush like a sleepy fly and no one will hinder us from doing this!
    At the same time, and for the SECOND PACIFIC SCADA UNDER TsUSIMA WE WILL BE SURROUNDED!
    AT LEAST WE ARE THEM AND SO NORMALLY HAVE BEEN IN NICE 1945 !!!!!
  38. dobry-ork
    dobry-ork 19 May 2012 22: 54
    +3
    The Japanese want to review the results of World War II? But do not show them to them?
  39. Rascopov
    Rascopov 20 May 2012 03: 49
    +4
    No hell was the precedent to create! They gave it to the Chinese, I don’t know how many hectares of our land there, including Damansky Island, which is covered with blood! Here are the Japanese and hope!

    Let me pour a fly in the ointment? :)
    We actually quit the Kuril Islands. Many islands have no population at all.
    And where they live - the conditions are the worst. Hapnuli grabbed - when to begin to master ???
  40. spok
    spok 20 May 2012 04: 56
    -2
    don't blindly trust a putler
    he has already shown his true "patriotism" by giving part of the land to China
    he absolutely does not care about Russia and its lands only dumb benefits
    the people on these islands thrown to the survival of the country do not care about them
    and the natural desire of the inhabitants to go under the Japanese
    I'm sure Putin does not care about people living on these islands and the islands themselves
    soon the summit is in possession then damn the olympiad and people will die soon and no problem
    you can not give the islands of Japan
  41. needles
    needles 20 May 2012 05: 06
    +4
    Guys stop leading a polemic on this score ... Our Kuril Islands and BASTA!
  42. spok
    spok 20 May 2012 08: 13
    -7
    and Putin still spoils the constitution and spit on his people
    MONEY AND MONEY ONCE AGAIN
    "One and the same person cannot hold the office of President of the Russian Federation for more than two consecutive terms"
    http://constitution.garant.ru/rf/chapter/4/#8103
    PUTLER IMPERPOSER AND BEING A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE LAWYED
    HE IS NO ONE!
    1. Фокус
      Фокус 21 May 2012 23: 58
      +1
      Good snot breed, Putin-the legitimate president!
  43. dred
    dred 20 May 2012 08: 16
    +2
    Quote: Scutum
    Thanks for clarifying - but I know that. Japan, by the way, did not have the authority to participate in World War II - did it somehow stop them?

    I just wanted to express the opinion that without the order of America, Japan would not start a war.
  44. Stasi.
    Stasi. 20 May 2012 15: 21
    +2
    Japan therefore wants to return the Kuril Islands because there is nowhere to place people, there are many Japanese and there are few territories. But! Recently, the Japanese themselves began to give birth to children a little, the birth rate has declined. So on this side, the claims are simply ridiculous. But there is another reason. Our Far East and the Kuril Islands are rich in minerals. And Japan is poor in natural resources. Here is the main reason for claiming the Kuril Islands. Anyone who claims that the Kuril Islands must be surrendered to the Japanese is a traitor to their country. Kuril Islands - Russian and the point!
    1. NikifOR
      NikifOR 20 May 2012 21: 51
      +1
      They have enough free territories and that they should not be trusted closely in their islands. And it’s time for these Japanese to understand that they lost these islands forever
  45. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 20 May 2012 16: 13
    +3
    Great article with links to sources and good historical analysis. I think that I will not be a visionary if I say that Japan is destined for either eternal vassal dependence on the United States, or existence in the form of a third-rate country in the event of defending its own independence and pursuing a sovereign foreign policy. In the case of a vassal relationship, Japan resembles the Tribaltic or Moldavia or Poland. Squeaks screeching about the occupation and the demand for indemnity, for which the provision of loans and investments, which gives the right to enter the G8. Otherwise, the deprivation of investments, the termination of raw materials supply and the existence of a country called "Nauru2".
  46. yury-xnumx
    yury-xnumx 20 May 2012 20: 10
    +2
    Article and author plus.
  47. sumarokoff
    sumarokoff 21 May 2012 07: 26
    +1
    let the Japanese gentlemen their rice through a stick !! in these "territories" so many RUSSIAN soldiers were killed !! my grandfather died on Shikotan after the war at 48 !! and all the "wide-eyed" people cannot calm down !! Thank God we do not live under the "great" perestroika reformer, he would definitely start some kind of barter !!
  48. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot 21 May 2012 09: 34
    +2
    japas have a chance to get smokers, only in one case, if the next social or liberal revolutionaries again venture the muck of Russia
  49. vostok
    vostok 21 May 2012 12: 24
    +1
    The Kuril Islands are ours alone and not anymore!
  50. Denis
    Denis 21 May 2012 19: 05
    0
    haiku:
    kids dogs and geisha
    silently suck
    Smoked do not ask
    scolding Putin and praising, but he doesn’t hand out the earth