Military Review

Czech: original and past long historical path. Part of 1

53
You really think that it will be a question of beer, because in the past beer was not only a drink of soldiers from many European countries, but to some extent served them food - not only quenched their thirst, but also gave them satiety, because they cooked something it is on cereals: malt, hop ... and this is always energy, plus some bit of “fuel” - alcohol ... But no - in fact, it will be about the Czechoslovak machine gun, and then, actually, the Czech army vz.58, which became further development of the "plump" rifle vz.52.


Well, start a story about this original form of small weapons follows from the preamble that ... there is such a book, The Adventures of Inventions, written by Alexander Ivitch, and here it is very interesting to tell how and as a result of what zigzags of fate these or other inventions appeared and what was sometimes difficult for them fate However, their creators, too.

But if you turned to the fate of military inventions and developments, then ... you would surely note that the ways of military inventions were often more dramatic at times, and why it was also clear that murder weapons were invented without something. And sometimes what was created in one country found its application in another, and the money spent on development in this country, in fact, flew into the pipe. And some development, starting his history in one country, they later became the property of many countries, and only from where and how did they appear, few people were interested.

And with the spread of the Internet around the world, a completely unusual problem arose, since the same information was now not only presented in its own way every time, but also replicated in unbelievable volumes. By the way, I note that the article about the Czech automaton vz.58 on the website "Military Review" was already. I visited the Czech Republic like this, drank there plenty of real Czech beer, looked at the changing of the guard at the presidential palace, then wrote a material about the vz.52 rifle and thought that, most likely, you can imagine your own vision of this topic. Well, after thinking like that - I just sat down and wrote a new material about this automaton, and then checked the level of its novelty according to the Advego Antiplagiat system, and when it in my opinion became quite sufficient (99% novelty by phrases and 100% novelty according to the words), then laid it out here for general familiarization ...

Czech: original and past long historical path. Part of 1

Automatic ZK412.

And again, I will have to start my story about vz.58 from a distance. Because I managed to find on the Internet such a text, which I cite, albeit literally, but in my own presentation. The author informs him that in February 1942, the Czechoslovak enterprise "Skoda Plants" was most likely presented to the Wehrmacht for trial, the world's first model of weapons for an intermediate cartridge specially developed for the army - the ZK412 submachine gun. And this cartridge was originally created under the ZK 423 light machine gun. It was created by Czech engineers on their own before, other powers and the same Germany began experimenting with weapons for intermediate cartridges. The characteristics of the cartridge were generally similar to the German intermediate cartridge, but the author of the text tells us that they were superior to the level of that time. The designers of the machine were the brothers Koutzky, although Czech sources report that the developer was only one - Josef Koucky. The automation system worked by the removal of gases. The sight is adjustable, from 100 to 300 meters. The machine was designed for shooting with the 8x35 Rapid chuck and had a total length - 980 mm, a barrel length - 418 mm, four right-side slices in the barrel, the total weight with cartridges - 4,8 kg and magazine capacity - 30 cartridges. Externally, he looked like a Kalashnikov assault rifle, with the same carob shop, but without a pistol grip. Interesting information, right? That's just the content of it exactly on 50% does not correspond to reality. Although the presence of the clause "most likely" negative impression of the abundance of inaccuracies reduces ...

About the Czech patron himself it is known that he was in many ways better than his counterparts. So, on comparative tests with Mauser 7,92-mm cartridges (10 g) and 9-mm Parabellum cartridges, it turned out that the 8-Rapid cartridge bullet had an average 400 meters distance (derivation), the deviation in 15 cm, Parabellum bullet - 80 cm, and 79,2-mm bullet Mauser rifle - 7 cm. On 800 meters 8-mm Rapid bullet had a deviation 104 cm, 9-mm Parabellum - 546 cm and 500 cm - bullet “Mauser” ". In addition, at the 400-meter distance, this bullet pierced an army helmet. Created this wonderful patron by August 1941, Alois Farlik at the Česká Zbrojevka factory in Brno, and although it didn’t go further with the prototype, the Czechs can certainly be congratulated.


Germanic Kurz-cartridge 7,92x33 mm.

As for the German patron 7,92 Kurz, or the “intermediate patron” (7,92x33 mm), it was developed by the German firm Polte, as early as the end of 30's (that is, the German priority in this case is obvious!) it is also obvious that the need for just such a cartridge in Germany has already been recognized by specialists from at least some firms. But the German Arms Administration was also awake, and already in 1938, it issued an order for developing weapons for this cartridge: first, Haenel, and then, in 1940, Walter joined the work.


Automatic machine "Walther" MKb.42 (W) with a grenade launcher-nozzle at the end of the barrel.

The Walter automatic machine MKb.42 (W) operated due to the pressure of the powder gases on the annular gas piston worn on the barrel. The piston moved back and forth inside the casing of the barrel and pushed the tube, worn on the barrel, and that, in turn, had two projections on the U-shaped slide frame, inside which there was a bolt that locked the barrel as a result of a skew. Well, the imbalance itself was carried out due to the fact that the lugs of the shutter slid in the grooves of the receiver, which made it swing in the vertical plane either up or down. The bolt handle was on the left, which was characteristic of all the automatic machines developed in Germany during the war.


Automatic MP44. (Army Museum in Stockholm)

The development of the machine at the company Haenel was done by the famous designer Hugo Schmeisser, who already in 1940 created the prototype of a new weapon: the “automatic carbine” or MaschinenKarabiner (MKb.) - since this is how the Germans classified this type of weapon from the very beginning. His machine gun had a different gas engine design, also with a piston, but on a long rod, which pushed the bolt that was tilted when it moved. In this, both machines were similar. And, by the way, it is precisely in this that both samples are different from the Kalashnikov assault rifle, where the principle of locking the breech block is completely different, and this is a very important, one might say, main difference.


Automatic MKb.42 (H). (Archive of the Springfield Arsenal USA)

Already by July 1942, the company Haenel prepared 50 pre-production samples of its submachine gun, and from November 1942 until April 1943, about 8000 copies of the new submachine gun were delivered to take part in the military trials that took place on the Eastern Front. It turned out that MKb.42 (H) is a promising design, although it needs to be improved, which was then carried out under the ciphers MP-43 and MP-44 assigned to it. Moreover, it turned out that his competitor, that is, the Walter machine gun, is better balanced and shoots more accurately, but ... the manufacturability is higher with the Hugo Schmeisser machine gun and this then decided the whole thing - it was his development that went into the series and entered service under the designation StG 44 . In total, about 420 of thousands of such assault rifles were released, which fell after the defeat of Nazi Germany in the armies of many countries of the world and, in particular, to the People’s Police and the German Democratic Republic, the army and police of the Federal Republic of Germany, and it was in service with the airborne forces. And it is clear that the same Czechoslovak military and engineers of military factories could well become familiar with and learn all the strengths and weaknesses.


Automatic MKb.42 (H). Incomplete disassembly. (Archive of the Springfield Arsenal USA)

However, there was also a third sample of the automaton proposed by the Mauser company, and it was he who bypassed his better-known competitor, the Hugo Schmeisser automaton!


Parade of the People's Police of the GDR, armed with StG 44.

Well, it all started with the fact that Dr. Meyer, who worked in the mathematical department of this company, suggested that he should abandon the complex, in his opinion, automation system based on the gas-extracting mechanism, and move from rigid locking of the barrel to a semi-free gate. Work on the new assault rifle based on this principle and under the intermediate cartridge 7,92х33 Kurz, the company "Mauser Werke" began in the year 1939. Engineer Ludwig Vorgrimler developed it, and the project itself was code-named "Gerät 06" ("06 Device").


Automatic machine StG 45 (M). (Museum in Munster) By the way, why such a short store? Yes, because of the direct location of the butt on this machine, as well as on the Schmeisser and Walter machines, it was necessary to raise aiming devices, which together with the 30-charging magazine made the shooter lift very high above the ground and be substituted for bullets. With a short magazine on 10 cartridges high rise was no longer necessary.

In the spring of 1943, the 43 made thousands of shots without a single delay from the new machine, which received the designation Mkb.6 (M), after which the Land Forces Army Administration of Germany decided to conduct field tests of this machine gun. By the end of 1944, they ended and it was then that it turned out that StG 44, which had just entered mass production, was significantly inferior in all respects to the new model! He was immediately adopted under the designation as StG 45 (M), but released only 30 sets of parts for the assembly of an experimental batch.

To be continued ...
Author:
53 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Cat
    Cat 19 August 2018 06: 53
    +8
    Good morning Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    The plot of history was a success, we look forward to continuing!
    Sincerely, Kitty!
  2. pin_code
    pin_code 19 August 2018 07: 05
    +5
    interesting, didn’t even know ...
  3. Grid
    Grid 19 August 2018 08: 18
    +7
    As for the German cartridge 7,92 Kurz, or the “intermediate cartridge” (7,92x33 mm), it was initiated by the German company Polte, in the late 30s (that is, the German priority in this case is obvious !)

    Yeah. Tell it to the French.

    In fact, many experimented with intermediate cartridges and much earlier than the Germans. The very concept and approximate characteristics of the intermediate cartridge were substantiated even before the PMA by Ferdinand von Mannlicher. In Germany itself, in addition to the Polte, Gecko was engaged in intermediates and their cartridges were more interesting 7,92x33.
    1. Trol_2
      Trol_2 19 August 2018 23: 31
      0
      It seems a long time before that our Fedorov made an automatic machine under the Japanese 6mm cartridge.
  4. Operator
    Operator 19 August 2018 09: 18
    +3
    The idea to equip infantrymen with individual automatic weapons arose even before the start of the WWII and was already realized during the war in all the warring countries. Individual weapons were aimed at shooting with hands and therefore required to reduce recoil force.

    In this regard, various types of weapons were developed for cartridges with reduced muzzle energy, including the Russian automatic Fedorov rifle of the 1916 model of the year under the Japanese rifle cartridge and the French automatic Ribeirol rifle of the 1918 model of the year for a specially developed intermediate cartridge (medium in energy between pistol and rifle)

    The first sample belonged to systems with a movable barrel and therefore did not possess the required accuracy of firing single shots, the second - to systems with a free shutter and therefore did not have the accuracy of firing bursts.

    In this regard, it was necessary to develop models of individual infantry weapons using other automation systems - a gas engine (StG44 and AK-47) and a half-free shutter (StG45 and FAMAS). Due to the reduced reliability of the semi-free shutter automation systems, the main type of individual infantry weapon was automatic carbines and rifles with a gas engine.

    Plus, I had to switch from an intermediate cartridge to a low-pulse cartridge with even less muzzle energy (to increase the accuracy of fire bursts).

    PS Czech gunsmiths all the way in the tail of technological progress - copy invented by others bully
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 19 August 2018 12: 21
      +7
      Quote: Operator
      Czech gunsmiths all the way in the tail of technological progress - copy invented by others

      Well, why? The Czechoslovakian vz-52 (7,62 x 45 mm), as some gunsmiths claim, exceeded the Soviet intermediate cartridge (7,62 x 39 mm) in ballistic properties ... army before the introduction of AK-52, and then delivered to different countries and enjoyed popularity ... Their Sa vz.7,62 machine gun and KLEC light machine gun chambered for: 45 x 47 mm
      VZ-52
      .
      Czechoslovakia also supplied its army with anti-tank grenade launchers
      T21, T27, RPG-75, etc.
      1. Operator
        Operator 19 August 2018 12: 49
        -5
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        VZ.52, VZ58, ...

        So I say that poor Czechs can only copy what others have developed before them (SKS-45, AK-47, ...) laughing
        1. Grid
          Grid 19 August 2018 14: 56
          +5
          So I say that poor Czechs can only copy what others have developed before them (SKS-45, AK-47, ...)

          Very mistaken.
          Vz52 is very relatively similar to SCS, and Vz58 is not related to AK from the word at all.
    2. Felix99
      Felix99 21 August 2018 08: 58
      0
      PS Czech gunsmiths all the way in the tail of technological progress - copy invented by others
      wrong! Sa. 23 Holeka - steel ultrasound, USM ZB vz. 26 used in AK
  5. Curious
    Curious 19 August 2018 11: 18
    +6

    PP Tipo Terni Modelo 1921 - created by the Terni arsenal under an intermediate cartridge of 7,35x32 caliber.
    1. Operator
      Operator 19 August 2018 12: 43
      -5
      The cartridge is half the battle, the second half is the design of the weapon.

      What automation system did Tipo Terni Modelo 1921 have?

      If the shutter is free, then Tipo is a golem school of Italian gunsmiths in the likeness of the French school of Ribeirol.
  6. Curious
    Curious 19 August 2018 13: 00
    +5
    "The Walther MKb.42 (W) assault rifle worked due to the pressure of the powder gases on the annular gas piston put on the barrel. The piston moved back and forth inside the barrel casing and pushed the tube put on the barrel, which, in turn, acted with two protrusions on the U-shaped bolt carrier, inside which there was a bolt that locked the barrel as a result of skewing. Well, the skew itself was carried out due to the fact that the lugs of the bolt slid in the grooves of the receiver, which is why it swayed in a vertical plane up and down. "
    An interesting source of this information, as it is INCORRECT.
    At Maschinenkarabin 42 Walther, locking was done by TURNING the shutter, not skewing,
    while the combat stops were in front of the bolt, and interacted with the grooves in the receiver insert.
    1. Grid
      Grid 19 August 2018 14: 53
      +2
      By the way, a fun assembly.

      Doesn’t the decision of the bolt group resemble anything?
      1. Curious
        Curious 19 August 2018 15: 48
        +1
        If you are talking about a famous megasrach, then it reminds you, this ...
        1. Grid
          Grid 19 August 2018 16: 54
          +1
          No, about this:
          1. Curious
            Curious 19 August 2018 21: 25
            +1
            Do you think that Stoner took inspiration from Walter?
            1. Grid
              Grid 20 August 2018 14: 25
              +2
              Not only. But he also scooped up fully from J.M. Browning.
              By the way, Kalashnikov honestly said that he took many ideas from Garand and Browning. Tokarev did not hide the fact that he borrowed a lot from Mauser and Browning ...
              1. Curious
                Curious 20 August 2018 15: 06
                +4
                I think this is a completely normal process. After all, what is essentially an invention - a new combination of well-known elements.
                1. Grid
                  Grid 20 August 2018 15: 39
                  +1
                  I think this is a completely normal process.

                  Absolutely normal. The funny thing is that if everyone knew TerMech, then such srachs would not have stupidly arisen.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 20 August 2018 18: 35
                    +2
                    A knowledge of TMM and Machine Parts with Sopromat would raise both the level of publications and the level of comments to an unattainable height.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 20 August 2018 18: 30
                +1
                Given the place of work of the MTK - nothing surprising. At NIPSVO there were data on the design and test results of almost the entire shooting range of the world. So it was possible not to reinvent the wheel, but to take advantage of proven designs.
              3. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 22 August 2018 17: 08
                -1
                "he took many ideas from Garand and Browning" /////
                ----
                The Americans gave the Garand 8 automatic charging rifles to the USSR for familiarization with Soviet gunsmiths. Everything is official.
          2. Felix99
            Felix99 21 August 2018 09: 04
            0
            Johnson rifle M-41 bolt group
    2. kalibr
      19 August 2018 18: 14
      0
      Here's where: http://zonwar.ru/avtomat/MKb-42W.html and also watched "Vogotten Vepon" (below). From him I realized that it was skewed. By turn is written on Wikipedia.
      1. Curious
        Curious 19 August 2018 19: 04
        0
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you know that I do not use Wikipedia.
        In Zonvar, an obvious typo. Moreover, incomplete disassembly is given there, according to which it is clear to a person with relevant knowledge that locking is performed by rotation.
        As for Forgotten Weapons, it says in black and white:
        "the Walther rifle fired from a closed bolt and used a rotating bolt to lock. "
        Do not believe it, see for yourself https://www.forgottenweapons.com/mkb-42w-the-sturmgewehr-that-never-was/
        1. kalibr
          19 August 2018 20: 17
          +1
          He says it hurts fast. Perhaps not so understood.
          1. Curious
            Curious 19 August 2018 21: 28
            +1
            There, besides the video, there is text. You can read it.
        2. Alf
          Alf 19 August 2018 21: 41
          +2
          There are so many outright bullies on Zonvar that it’s disgusting to read.
          For example, the Red Army was armed with the М1932, М1938, М193В guns, the ZIS-2 cannon was assigned by the "authors" to the 76-mm guns. It can be seen that they frankly fought from Western sources, not bothering either with a high-quality translation or with veracity.
      2. Grid
        Grid 19 August 2018 19: 18
        +1
        Watch the video from the 15th minute. There, down to the smallest detail, the functioning of the locking unit is sucked.
  7. san4es
    san4es 19 August 2018 14: 22
    +2
    It turned out that MKb.42 (H) is a promising design, although it needs refinement
    ... because of the direct location of the stock on this machine, as well as on the Schmeisser and Walther machines, I had to raise sights
  8. alex-cn
    alex-cn 19 August 2018 15: 47
    0
    I read somewhere that the models of both the Walter and Mauser 42 years old were not in demand among the shooters because of the complexity of the design and sensitivity to pollution.
    I got into the hands of a semiautomatic hunting machine Walther - the bolt is really complicated of many small parts, but could shoot bursts ...
  9. NF68
    NF68 19 August 2018 15: 56
    +3
    And again, I will inevitably have to start my story about vz.58 from afar. Because it was possible to find on the Internet such a text that I cite, although verbatim, but in my own presentation. The author reports that in February 1942 the Czechoslovak enterprise предприятием Skoda Plants на submitted to the Wehrmacht, most likely, the world's first model of weapons for an intermediate cartridge specially developed for the army - the ZK412 submachine gun.


    Most likely, the author does not know that the German company Rheinmetall-Borzig back in 1927 developed the Gewehr 28 self-loading rifle under the intermediate cartridge 8x42,5 mm. with a magazine on xnumx cartridges. Then, in the 20 / 1934's, the German company Vollmer developed an M1935 automatic rifle chambered for 35x7,75 mm., RWS offered an infantry rifle chambered for 40x8,15 mm., Then Walther and DWM worked together offered an 46 xMNX assault rifle. Further, the company Polte offered an assault rifle chambered for 7,5x40 mm. As a result, it was decided to opt for the 7,9 x30 mm cartridge.

    http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/sturmgewehre.htm

    Details about the development of other countries for intermediate cartridges in the years after the WWII I do not know. But references to these developments have come across to me more than once.
    1. Curious
      Curious 19 August 2018 16: 22
      +1
      "Most likely the author does not know ..."
      How did you guess ?!
      1. NF68
        NF68 19 August 2018 16: 30
        -3
        How did you guess ?!


        Yes, he most likely turned to the predictor: and then he also consulted with Jane Psaki. Well, then again, most likely, she knows everything in the world.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. cat Baiyun.
    cat Baiyun. 19 August 2018 16: 52
    -6
    The Chinese intercepted the "copying banner" from the Chekhovs like a relay baton laughing
  11. Operator
    Operator 19 August 2018 17: 06
    -9
    Quote: Grille
    Vz58 is not affiliated with AK

    Copy worse than the original - this is so in Czech bully
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 August 2018 17: 37
      +11
      The Czech Republic has long been the most technologically advanced of the Slavic countries.
      It's pointless to deny it. Skoda cars are not inferior in quality to German cars and surpass all other European ones. "Chisette" - quality pistols.
      1. Operator
        Operator 19 August 2018 19: 21
        -7
        Well, yes, yes: the first satellite and the first man in space - it's all Czech laughing

        "Czech" Skoda since 1991 is part of the German concern Volkswagen AG, however.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 August 2018 22: 27
        +2
        Well, Skoda is included in the FV .... And the glory of "Skoda" and "Tatra" goes to the beginning of the century. 20th.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  12. Catfish
    Catfish 20 August 2018 01: 04
    +6
    Quote: Operator
    Czech gunsmiths all the way in the tail of technological progress - copy invented by others bully


    Really? In your opinion, it turns out that the Czech ZB-26/30 is a copy of the British "Bran", and not vice versa? Did Holek rip the trigger for his ZH-29 from Schmeiser's Stg44, and did not the German borrow the idea from the Czech? And the submachine guns Sample23-25 1947 also a copy of the Uzi? I won't even talk about the Czech pistol school here! bully
    1. Operator
      Operator 20 August 2018 02: 03
      -7
      On the fig, discuss the bow (trigger) from the side when the Czechs illiterate copy-paste, copy-paste and copy-paste the system solutions of foreign pistols, machine guns and machine guns.

      For the notorious Bren, see the Lewis 1923 machine gun of the year, whose corrupted layout was upside down by the Czechs in ZB-26 / 30

      1. Curious
        Curious 20 August 2018 09: 10
        +3
        The source of the fact that the basis of the ZB-26/30 Lewis machine gun can lead?
        1. Grid
          Grid 20 August 2018 14: 32
          +3
          Will not lead ...
          For they really are not. Since ZB-26/30 (BREN) have only one similarity with this unit - they are all machine guns.
  13. slowpokemonkey
    slowpokemonkey 20 August 2018 13: 09
    0
    slightly strained 420 issued stg, not a slip?
    1. Grid
      Grid 20 August 2018 14: 37
      +2
      slightly strained 420 issued stg, not a slip?

      No.
      But when they really went into the army, this fact did not play a special role.
  14. bunta
    bunta 20 August 2018 17: 49
    0
    In the spring of 1943 of the year, from the new machine, which received the designation Mkb.43 (M), 6 of thousands of shots were fired without a single delay,

    Lie.
  15. Catfish
    Catfish 20 August 2018 18: 24
    +2
    Quote: bunta
    In the spring of 1943 of the year, from the new machine, which received the designation Mkb.43 (M), 6 of thousands of shots were fired without a single delay,

    Lie.


    If possible in more detail. hi
    1. bunta
      bunta 20 August 2018 19: 55
      0
      Quote: Sea Cat
      If possible in more detail.

      In February 44, they just decided to make an experimental prototype on the Mauser. The designation "Mkb" was no longer used in 43. There were MPs in 43rd. Then Stg. So from "Gerät 06 (H)" immediately "Stg 45 (M)". The letter "H" from the locking type is a semi-free shutter. He might have fired six thousand shots. But "without a single delay" ... Don't tell my sneakers.
      1. bunta
        bunta 20 August 2018 20: 07
        +2
        Quote: bunta
        He could have done six thousand shots.

        Made. First sample 7000 at Obendorf. The other two are in Kummersdorf, 5000 each including climate. No mention of "no delay". Dieter Handrich "Sturmgewer 44".
  16. bunta
    bunta 20 August 2018 20: 17
    +1
    warp shutter
    self-propelled crew (c) wink
  17. bunta
    bunta 20 August 2018 22: 11
    +2
    However, there was also a third sample of the automaton proposed by the Mauser company, and it was he who bypassed his better-known competitor, the Hugo Schmeisser automaton!

    I wonder how the set of parts for making 30 prototypes "beat its competitor"? And even more so how was this set "adopted"?
    1. Felix99
      Felix99 21 August 2018 09: 10
      0
      After the war, the designer moved to Spain, where on the basis of this weapon he made CETME, which later became the HC G3.
  18. Catfish
    Catfish 21 August 2018 12: 46
    +2
    Quote: bunta
    Quote: Sea Cat
    If possible in more detail.

    In February 44, they just decided to make an experimental prototype on the Mauser. The designation "Mkb" was no longer used in 43. There were MPs in 43rd. Then Stg. So from "Gerät 06 (H)" immediately "Stg 45 (M)". The letter "H" from the locking type is a semi-free shutter. He might have fired six thousand shots. But "without a single delay" ... Don't tell my sneakers.


    Thank you, Andrew.

    As I understand it, there is no exact information on this subject. Although, perhaps, you are right, it is hard to imagine that 6000 shots were fired from a single barrel without a single delay. But since there is no exact information, then ... there were delays, or there were none - all this is from the realm of speculation.

    Regards, Konstantin. hi
  19. UA3QHP
    UA3QHP 10 October 2018 21: 15
    0
    I read the article, that’s what it seemed to me, but the Czechs were definitely occupied? Judging by the enthusiasm for the invention of small arms in 41-44. they were in another lagra.